The last of my army list discussions is finally here. This post will focus on the two remaining army lists, the Stone Dragons and the Emperors Disciples, as talked about in the last post. Again, ill start with the stone dragons.

Rune Priest - w/plasma pistol and runic sword
Wolf Lord - w/storm bolter and wolf claw
Wolf Priest - w/ plasma pistol
Grey Hunters - Wolf guard w/plasma pistol and chain sword, Pack leader w/power sword, grey hunter w/ plasma pistol, grey hunter w/plasma gun, 2x grey hunter w/boltgun
Grey Hunters - Wolf guard w/plasma pistol and chain sword, Pack leader w/powerfist, grey hunter w/ plasma pistol, grey hunter w/plasma gun, 2x grey hunter w/boltgun
Long Fangs - Ancient w/boltgun, bolt pistol and chainsword, 2x lascannons, 2x plasma cannons
Rhino - storm bolter
Rhino - storm bolter

827 points (47 power points)

As you can see, the dragons are a bit of a mixed bag. The keen eyed amongst you might notice a bit of a difference between what was written about these guys in the last post and the list here. This is because having gone back through the index to double check the entries and also using BattleScribe, I have discovered that you can no longer take wolf guard squads with bolter, pistol and combat weapon, as per the last errata. No this is a bit of a pain, but not the end of the world, it just means that I've had to have a rethink about the force. So, out come the wolf guard squad and in goes........ Well, that's a good question, what does go in? With nearly 200 points to spare, what is going to go in the place of the wolf guard squads? I have thought about lone wolves, but even then, two lone wolves aren't the best choice, although they certainly are the cool choice. So what do i do? I will probably either run these guys with  the Disciples or with some Dagr Ormr, so I guess its better to go with a more combat orientated unit, but I want more good all rounds and just not Grey hunters. I think that my main problem right now is that I wanted to stay away from space wolves specific units, as in fenrisian wolves, thunderwolf Calvary and wolfen, not to mention chapter specific characters as well. Hopefully a solution will present itself in due course or maybe when the codex does arrive, either way there is a bit of time to decide.

Next up are the Emperors Disciples. As I mention in the previous post, these are going to be a fairly elite army, with only the captain and Dev's sitting outside the elite choices. Now, as mentioned in the last post, there is a high likelihood of a lieutenant being included within the list, probably at the expense of the company champion.

Captian - w/Combi-plasma and power sword
Apothecary
Company Champion
Honour Guard - Powerfist, Power Axe
Honour Guard - Power Sword, Power Axe
Sternguard - Sgt w/Powerfist
Sternguard
Devastator Squad - 4x missile launchers
Razorback - w/heavy bolters
Rhino - w/stormbolter
Rhino - w/stormbolter
Rhino - w/stormbolter
Rhino - w/stormbolter

With the current set up, you can see that there are 3 proper squads and 2 small squads and 2 characters, all of which can sit quite comfortably in the transports. While the Dev's won't  spend a lot of time in there's, it does mean that there are greater options for moving around the field, with a decent amount of redundancy built in to the list. Ideally I would upgrade a couple of the rhinos to razorbacks and I probably could upgrade 2 as things stand, but until I get around to building the force, I want to give myself some room to manoeuvre. Again it would be nice to have these razorbacks armed up with twin lascannon for some extra anti-armour punch, but that will be expensive.

In terms of the rest of the force, the plan is to run one sternguard squad and one honour guard squad together in a rhino, and then run the Dev's in the third rhino. The honour guard are there to help if the sternguard get too close to the enemy and get caught up in combat. Ideally they won't get charged, but if they do, then they will try and fall back at the first opportunity and leave the honour guard to hold up the enemy, until the sternguard can shoot again. Lastly, The razorback will carry the captain, lieutenant and apothecary, to support one of the sternguard units, depending upon who requires the most assistance. So, while not the most balanced list, it should be fun to play and also fairly easy to paint up!

So, I've run through most of my army lists but there are a few still outstanding, pal of which are space marine armies. Now, for quite awhile I have been thinking about slimming down my forces, afterall, 2 pure guard, 1 guard/tempestus and 5 marine armies is quite a few. In reality this equates to 5 2000 point armies and 2 1000 point armies and a 500 point army, which is probably a little excessive. I have often thought about selling off a few models and reducing down my collection but I've never got around to it. Anyway, that's really for a another post, right now lets look at the last few army lists.

We'll start with the Stone Dragons. These are the space wolves derived chapter and are quickly growing in size. Starting out as a 500 point force, there now up to 1000 points. The original force was made of awolf priest, a squad of Grey hunters and a small unit of 3 long fangs. Now with the rule changes and the changes to some of the squads, namely the long fangs, the force has grown to include a wolf lord and rune priest, a second Grey hunter squad and a wolf guard squad, in addition to extra long fangs and a couple of rhinos. Now, even with these extra units, the idea of the force remains, as a multipurpose force, tooled up for combat and ranged combat, with every one wielding bolter, pistol and swords (of various types). They are not going to be combat monsters, or even ranged killers, but a general force to support other, more specific forces.


The end list may change again, when the wolves codex drops, and they will probably not see masses of table time, as I don't envisage me buying the wolves codex, unless its quite a bit cheaper then the main marine codex, which I don't see happening. I do however, see this force growing over time, as I like the wolves and their character.

Next up are the Emperors Disciples. These were actually the first force that I decided on, as a companion to my guard infantry force, something to add some "weight" behind the guardsmen. They have however been relegated somewhat to one of the lesser forces over time and also have become one of the more specialized forces. When this force originated it was in the form of a demi-company, with all the requirements that entailed, then with the release of the ssternhammer detachment its various formations, the force changed in a more dedicated force, something it retains now.


The main part of the force is still made up of sternguard squads, but with the increase in the cost of transports, there are now just two squads with rhinos, supported by missile Dev's and two honor guard squads and company champion for close support. Add in the obligatory captain and apothecary and the force is complete. Now, with the inclusion of a lieutenant in the codex, there is a good chance that one will find its way in to the force, giving some extra re-rolls and meaning that atleast one ofthe sternguard squads will be re-rolling 1's to hit and wound. There are also some additional transports, in the shape of another rhino and a razorback. This means that the force is a highly mobile force, with everyone being able to get into a transportfor rapid mobility, which is the main point of this force.

The last force to talk about are the Brazen Hawks. Now here is the biggest change, as I will be dropping these guys from my build schedule or rather my paint schedule as most of them are already build. The reason is that I was never really happy with the force in the first place. I think that I have mentioned this in the past, I wanted a black templars force and I created a story around that, but I could never get the force to where I wanted it. In terms of fluff, I like the back story, but the actual force always seemed a bit of a compromise.



In reality I would have liked to have included neophytes in to the squads, to have the proper feel to the units. Ideally I would have had land raiders as well, probably two land raider crusaders with a big squads of crusaders each and a couple of characters for good measure, all in a 1000 point force. But the reality is that I don't own the models and I'm sticking to my no buying new models rule (except for the chimera I need for the Hrossey yeomanry). As such, the models from this force have been distributed to the other forces.

I like the plasma gunner model and I'm quite impressed with my first attempt at blending with the plasma coils. It doesn't show up very well in the picture and to be honest probably isn't that great in the flesh, but for a first attempt I think its pretty good. The cabling on the other hand, looks out of place. I think I need to change the colors, possibly switch the yellow for red to keep the color pallet down and not be so contrasting, on the otherhand that was what I was going for. Painting it red will tie it in with the coils though or maybe I just need to add more yellow to tie the cabling in to the rest of the model? Ill probably go for red in the end but ill leave it for a while and see what I think.


This model was the additional model added to 7th edition DV boxsets and makes a nice honor guard model, at least in my opinion anyway. As I mention above, there is a lot more detail on the chest that I could pick out, but I think that will just make it look busy rather than actually enhancing the model. I think I may add some bone coloring to the horns and add some more black to the details, try and break up the metallic color a little.

I am wondering if its just the fact that the model is so shiny, with all the bronze and silver, maybe I need to tone down the silver parts, add in some more contrast.

Of course all this could be a mute point with the imminent  release of 8th. I am planning on getting the starter set and as such some of the new marines. The question is, do these become a new army or join an existing one? Right now the brazen hawks are in danger of finding themselves squatted and reborn.

So what of the other forces that I use? Well, currently I run the Disciples using Imperial Fists tactics, the Stone Dragons as Wolves, Brazen Hawks as Black Templars. Plus I plan on running an Inquisitional detachment with Grey knights, deathwatch and sister. So what are my thoughts on these armies?

Well, most of my thoughts on these armies are pretty thin, hence the single post, as I run most of these for the fun of it rather than for anything serious. Ill start with the Space Marines codex, for no other reason than its the first one I thought of.


So what in the codex would I chane, either in points or options? Points wise I couldn't really say what I'd change as I think that most things are pretty well coasted, well, the bits I use anyway. I also think that there are no gaps in the units, as there are options for everything and more often than not, several options. Granted some units are better than others, think grav-centurions over grav-dev's. There really are just two things that I think need looking at, the first being said grav-Dev's.

Now I'm not against grav or anything, but I think that a devastator marine should not have an amp, a centurion has a grav and amp as well, which seems odd. A normal marine carries a lascannon, or a heavy bolter, but a centurion can carry two lascannon or two heavy bolters, but a normal marine can carry a grav and amp but a centurion can only carry a grav and amp as well? Surely it should be capable of carrying 2 gravs and amps or a marine can only carry a grav and not an amp as well? Now a centurion with two gravs would just be silly, so I think that a normal marine should lose the amp. They will still be powerful weapons, but would be more logical in my view.

The second thing I would like to see I the codex is a change to bikes. I don't mean the actual bikes or anything but the weapon loads. Surely after several thousand years, someone has thought to pull off a bolter and stick something else on there? I mean the Dark Angels managed to do it with plasma guns, but no-one else has thought of this? Not even the White Scars? I don't think that everyone should be driving around with plasma talons, I'm more thinking that one bolter is removed and you loose the twin linked, but have the option to fire both weapons. I think it would be good to have the option for a melts or Flamer on the bike. I know that the marine riding the bike can take these weapons as well, and that would prob need adjusting but I like the idea of bikes with things other than bolters.



In terms of formations, the only thing I think is lacking is a proper formation for the Black Templars, with crusader squads as part of the core instead of tactical squads. There may well be on option for this already, and I might just have missed it, but as far as I'm aware, its only the standard gladius or the ones from Angels of Death to choose from.


For Space Wolves, my knowledge is even weaker but I do think that some of the recent rules and units are a little bit too strong, mainly the Wolfen. The Thunder Wolves are pretty strong as well, and possibly a little cheap for what they are. The only real question I see is with the various Claw units, blood, sky and swift, and the fact that they are still BS3. With all the other scout units being BS4 now, leaving these units as BS3 seems odd, but increasing them would change the whole setup of the codex. In truth I don't know what the answer to this problem is, lucky its not something that's going to affect me, as I don't really play SW and neither do any of my opponents.

The only other codex that maybe affected by the arrival of 8th is my Imperial Allies codex, one I dont actually have yet (birthday present sitting in the cupboard). Will this codex cease to exist? Or will it continue on? I hope it will continue on, as it solves a lot of problems for me, enabling me to field units and armies without having to buy multiple whole codices. Hopefully the new sisters codex (if there is one) won't be to much of a change as to affect the sisters units in the book, not that ill be using many of them and hopefully the same can be said for Grey knights and deathwatch. At the end of the day, I could always just sub units, like for like.

As for the other codices in the GW universe, in afraid in completely clueless, whilst I know of many units and some formations from other books, points costs and rules are beyond me. Yes there are certain units (wraithknight) and formations (Tau Stealth  Cadre I think its called) are either under costed or over powered, but then everybody knows these things and their are lots of people more informed than I am and able to make better arguments for fixing them. For me, the main thing I want to see from the other codices is a leveling of power and universal (and sensible) formations.

At the end of the day, its pretty much anyone guess what 8th will bring.

So with the release of the fluff and lists for the Dragons and the Hawks, I've been putting together a few test pieces.

While the main colors for each faction are decided, I wanted to try out the schemes on actual models, plus I wanted to try some techniques.

Hawks

After a bad start, I based the hawks Grey and dragons brown, completely the wrong way around, things are working out well. I originally intended for the hawks to be bronze but they are now copper, as I have copper and not bronze. However, so far I really like the copper, but Im a little worried how the silver from the weapons will look against the bronze, I may end up having to do something different.



Dragons

The Dragons scheme is going well and the base Grey is looking good. The librarians blue cloak looks nice against the Grey body, although both models require a lot more work. I think that the color scheme is going to workout well for these, and maybe the one that troubles me least.



Knights

Im still struggling with this one. Originally I brought some Revell fluorescent orange to use but its very transparent and doesn't  cover very well, even over white primer. So I got some ratskin flesh to base the models before using the orange, but while better its still not great. I also have some Jakearo orange, which looks exactly the same as ratskin flesh but is supposed to be darker and more orange, so I might give that a go as well. I've also brought some troll slayer orange to see if that will work better than the Revell orange.


As you can see, left is just the Revell  orange, several coats worth applied over a white base, the right model is the same but over an over painted model, black base with a coat of white primer, very rough but just to get the idea. The middle model is Ratskin flesh over a white primer with the chest painted with the Revell orange. The only one that comes close is the left model, but its taken about half a dozen layers so far to get it to that color, and its still not perfect.


This shows off the two other models better. You can see the difference the basing makes on the right model, the jump pack orange is a lot brighter than the body, but still not great after 2 coats. The left shows the Revell orange over the Ratskin better, its better and brighter, but still not how I want it. So I'm going with GW Troll Slayer orange instead, see how that works.

Disciples

Well, its a lot darker than I was planning. Kantor blue is the darkest blue base color that GW do and i only have a gloss blue from Revell. I still need to add the yellow and red details, so I'm still not sure on these. I wanted to avoid them looking like ultramarines, which I seem to be achieving, so that one advantage.

So following on from the fluff that I posted for these guys, here is the list I intend to build. It will be a small force, just 500 points. The purpose of this list and the army collection is just to add some flavor and fun to my collection. I would like to think that they will come out to play occasionally as an allied force but we shall see. At least, coming in at 16 models it should be simple to build and paint!

The fluff revolves around the Templars and this is reflected in the list, using BT chapter tactics and units. Also, most of the units are heated towards close combat, with the crusaders having pistols and swords as well.


So here is the 500 point allied detachment list using Black Templars chapter tactics.

Chaplin - Plasma Pistol, Crozius Arcanum

Honour guard - Chapter champion, 2x power swords, 2x power axe, Rhino

Crusader squad - Flamer, 4x Initiates w/chainswords, Rhino

Devastator squad - 2x Plasma Cannon

Short and sweet.

So, a chaplain to lead,well its a BT list and apart from the Emperors Champion there isnt really many choices and being a BT lits it ad to contain a crusader squad. I also put a honour guard in, granted in a 500 point list it forms a bog points sink. When running with the chaplain, the unit will be over half the points cost for the army. The Dev's are only 2 guns strong, as there was no points for any more, but 2 plasma cannons can still cause problems. The idea was a small combat army with good mobility, which I think I have achieved while keeping the BT feel. In the long term, if they ever did get reinforced (say another 500 points) it was be extra crusaders and a Land Raider. In a 2000 point list, there would be at least 2 if not 3 land raiders, but that is a long long way off!

The Brazen Hawks have by all accounts, including those of Terra, the Inquisition and even the chapters own, ceased to exist. There has been no active sighting of a battle brother of the brazen hawks for more than 300 years. However, the chapter is not extinct, at least not yet. There remains a hand full of battle brothers. However, there is hope on the horizon, the 606 year penitence crusade is almost over and the gene seed of the chapter is stable and pure.

The chapter is nearing the end of a penitent crusade as a result of treachery from within their own ranks, when the company captain of the 8th, an old and disgruntled veteran, tried to usurp the chapter master. The resultant civil war was bloody and protracted and the Hawks became more interested in their own affairs that that of the imperium and deserted their duty and allowing a xenos threat to run rampant. This incurred the full wrath of the inquisition, resulting in a penitent crusade, and so the chapter reorganised themselves into a Templar's style crusader force and took many of the Templar's beliefs and ideologies.

The chapter was originally a successor of the imperial fists, created as a standing force to guard against an unknown threat from the ghoul stars on the eastern fringe, as divined by the Emperor's Tarot.



Why did I start this force? I decided that I wanted some more variety in the marine forces that I had in my collection. I was originally looking at 3 full 2000 point lists, two based around demi companies, and I thought that it was a little bit excessive. I therefore cut down one of the lists, the Emperors Disciples, but that left me with some extra marines. As I wanted to do something different with them, I had a think and came up with the Hawks and Dragons. The lists are small, as to enable them to slip into various army lists with out much problem, they may not be optimised at all, but its more about the fluff then anything else.

Question;  what do you do when you have spare models and to much time on your hands?

Answer; create more armies. I mean, what other possible answer is there for a man who already has to many armies, most of which are unpainted.

Now, I know what your thinking and your right, it is silly. The main reason for these thoughts is that I'm planning on getting Renegade for my birthday (ssshhhh, haven't told the wife yet!) and as such I will have two knight's to add to the collection, thus I need a supporting army to go with them.

So, I shall introduce the House of XXX (no not the X rated house, just doesn't have a name yet) and the knight's Dagalien and Daggri. Dagalien is a Knight Warden and is the senior of the two knights, while Daggri is a Knight Gallant. The rest of the force is made up of members of the houses subjects, sworn to protect the great and ancient war machines. They will be formed of an allied detachment with a HQ and two platoons with a significant number of heavy weapons alongside numerous infantry to protect the knight's from being charged. I'll write a proper house history at some point, after I get the box set, I'm not gonna count my chickens just yet.

This will form a 4th IG/MT army, and be of a different format again, giving me an infantry, mechanical, deep strike and super heavy based armies. And this got me thinking, there aren't many other type of IG/MT armies apart from Aircav (maybe for the future) but what other types Marine armies are there?

Now I've got a shooty one in the disciples, so that basically covers ultrasmurfs and Imperial Fists, I have bikes and TDA from the Guardians, taking out DA and Scars. The Knights take out BA and Raven Guard. So that leaves the Sallies, Iron Hands, Black Templars and the Puppies.

Now, Sallies don't really interest me and there not that much different from the other codex forces, the same can be said for the Iron Hands. That and I could run the Disciples as Iron Hands if I wanted. That only leaves the Templars and the Puppies. Now I'm sure I'll get wronged for calling them puppies, but hey, yap yap yap little doggies ;-)

Now I know that the wolves have not successors, and that the ferisian wolves are unique to the chapter, but I like some of the rules. So what would I do? Simple, the chapter, the Stone Dragons, is based on a feral world of large open savannah and grass land where the local tribes live in stone age existence, large hunting dogs (or cats, I haven't decided yet) roam the plains and are used for hunting by the tribes and of course the marines. Whilst I will keep some elements of the wolves, such as wolves, others will be lost, no psykers, no Calvary, no wolfen etc.

The force itself would be a small elite type of affair, the main body would be a large pack of blood claws with a full grey Hunter squad and several wolf guard units, and a full compliment of HQ units and as many dog/cats as can be fitted. I'll write a more comprehensive chapter history for them at some point, but as there a bit of a paper work exercise it could be a while.

That just leaves the Templars, or the Brazen Hawks as they would be. The hawks would be a vehicle heavy army, namely land raiders, with few HQ and lots of large squads of crusaders, maxed out to fit in the crusader raiders. All the units would be fixed for combat with the fire-power being supplied by the raiders. They would be very similar to the black Templars in many respects apart from their history, which I have a good idea of, I just need to put pen to paper as it were. Again these guys are really a paperwork exercise, so the process will probably be quite slow.

The marine armies are not really ones for the table top, as my current grand plan is to finish painting all my current IG/MT armies plus the knight's if I get them, and paint my marines. The Knights are waiting to see what there Gladius detachment brings and what adjustments I need to make, the disciples need to be slightly adjusted still to meet the new Sternhammer Formation and the Guardians still need some decisions making but likely a very basic Lions Blade detachment (out of the B@C box) plus the wings will be made bringing to force well over 2000pts in total. I still need to figure that out.

So there is still lots to do, I'm chipping away at it slowly, very slowly but chipping away none the less.