Mondcasino - The player's unable to withdraw his winnings from a bonus.

Bonusbedingingen sagen, dass ich 100€ ohne Bonus in der gleichen Woche eingezahlt haben muss, damit ich Gewinne aus dem Bonus auszahlen kann

Hello Doedel14,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Mondcasino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and is yes, since when exactly? When was the last time you did deposit into the casino? Could you please send the link to the exact bonus you used? Is the balance currently still on your account?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Dear Doedel14,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond to your complaint in the given time frame, or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject it.

Hallo Nick,

ich habe mehrfach eingezahlt und bin auch verifiziert. Ich habe allerdings nur den Betrag auszahlen können, den ich eingezahlt habe. Meine Gewinne wurden einbehalten. Die Begründung ist, dass der Weekend Reload Bonus nur dann verfügbar ist, wenn ich innerhalb der letzten 7 Tage eine Einzahlung gemacht habe. Das hatte ich in diesem Fall nicht, den Bonus habe ich aber trotzdem erhalten. Nachdem ich die Umsatzbedingungen erfüllt hatte, wurden die Gewinne (oberhalb der ursprünglichen Einzahlung) von meinem Konto entfernt.

Es gibt also scheinbar extra Bonus-Bedingungen für den Weekend Reload Bonus, dir mir vorher nicht bekannt waren. Ich bin auch davon ausgegangen, dass die gleichen Bedingungen gelten, wie bei dem Willkommensbonus.

Die Seite müsste aber m.E. nach schlechter bewertet werden. Wenn ich kein Recht auf den Bonus habe, sollte ich den auch gar nicht erst erhalten bzw. Umsatzbedingungen dafür erfüllen müssen.

LG

Just to sum it all up:

You automatically received the bonus even if you did not deposit within the last 7 days, which was a condition to receive it and after you finished the wagering, the casino voided all of your winnings?

Genau richtig!

Thank you Doedel14 for all the information. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Tomas who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Doedel14,

I will assist you with the complaint from now on. I went over the details of the case and will do my best to help you. I would like to ask the representatives of MondCasino t join the conversation in order to help us resolve the issue.

Mondcasino,

Could you explain why the winnings from the bonus Doedel14 received were voided?

Hi there,

Frank here on behalf of Mondcasino.

Please note, mentioned player does not have any clean deposit (raw deposit without bonus attached) therefore he was not entitled to claim mentioned bonus as per our bonus T&C. In this case winnings generated with the help of bonus are removed and balance set accordingly to initial deposit.

Whether player has received an offer about any promo or bonus officially from our casino, bonus Terms and Conditions were attached so it is player responsibility to read it before claiming any bonus.

Thank you for understanding,

Regards

Frank

Mondcasino Team

Hello Frank,

thank you for the reply and explanation.

Could you explain the mechanism of how this type of bonus is claimed? Is it an automated process, or is it claimed in the player's account?

Hi Casinoguru,

Player needs to enter certain bonus code under "bonuses" in his profile before making deposit. Once deposit is done bonus is added automatically.

Regards,

Frank

Mondcasino Team

Dear Doedel14,

Did you claim the bonus the way Frank from Mondcasino team, describes?

Hallo,

Ich habe zuvor keine „saubere Einzahlung" gemacht. Der angebotene Bonus von Mondcasino ist also scheinbar schmutzig.

Aber ja, ich habe einen Code eingegeben für den Bonus. Hätte ich den Bonus nicht erhalten, wäre das fair. So halte ich es aber für unfair. Ich finde nur, dass ein Casino, welches sein Geld auf solche Art verdient, sollte höchstens mit „fragwürdiges Casino" gekennzeichnet werden.

In der Bewertung auf Casinoguru steht. Dass es unfaire Bonusbedingungen gibt, aber kein Fall bekannt ist, bei dem diese angewendet wurden. Nun ist ja ein solcher Fall bekannt.

ich erwarte auch keinen Schadensersatz, da ich nach den Bonusbedingungen einfach Pech gehabt habe. Aber eine wesentlich schlechtere Bewertung hielte ich für angemessen.

Hello all,

In Casino Guru, we believe that creating a safe environment for players should be one of the priorities of great online casinos. A part of this safe environment is that restrictions should be implemented on the casino’s side so there's no chance for players to break them by accident. It’s not hard to implement a feature that will not let players claim a bonus if they haven’t placed a deposit when they should have, according to the Terms and Conditions, or are not eligible to claim a certain bonus offer in general.

You can read more about our opinion on situations like this in our Fair Gambling Codex.

With that being said, we believe Doedel14 should be allowed to withdraw his winnings in full.

Hello Tomas,

Please note we have had opened another case where you "casino.guru" advised us to include Bonus T&C to all channels (email, messages, etc, etc) where we promote our bonuses. This way you have "guaranteed" us that this will be fair environment for players. We did exactly what you have requested. Please check out by yourself.

Regards to implementing a feature that would enable more advanced approach I believe our platform provider needs to be contacted if anything like this is available at all.

As said before, we encourage our players to read bonus T&C before claiming any bonus to avoid such situation as this one. We offer top rated 24/7 support where our support guys have all answers whether players are eligible for any kind of bonuses.

Regards to player complaint this case is closed for us as player clearly confirmed he was abusing offered bonuses without knowing all rules. Player added "no compensation" is expected as he is aware of his mistake.

Best Regards

Mondcasino Team

Die Bonusbedingungen sind verlinkt aber nicht in der Mail aufgeführt.

In Bezug auf die Implementierung einer Funktion, die einen fortgeschritteneren Ansatz ermöglichen würde, glaube ich, dass unser Plattformanbieter kontaktiert werden muss, wenn so etwas überhaupt verfügbar ist.

—> Alle anderen Casinos schaffen das ohne Probleme - selbst neue Casinos

ZB so:

Hello all,

thanks for the feedback and the information provided by both parties.

Mondcasino team,

The fact the player opened a complaint will be honored.

Could you confirm the screenshot corresponds to changes you made to the text of the offer for the reload bonus, since the last complaint on our website regarding the same issue? https://casino.guru/mondcasino-player-s-winnings-were-confiscated

The fact that we are encountering the same complaint after changes have been made indicates a fair environment for the players was not achieved.

The line 'total required deposit €100' doesn't tell the player about the timeframe or about the nature of the deposit that is required - is it total lifetime deposits? It's vague and can be interpreted easily that way. This line doesn't come from the Bonus t&c nor does it refer to anything relevant about what the bonus t&c refers to (a deposit within 7 days with which no bonus was claimed is required to be eligible to claim the bonus)

Also, again the player can interpret the fact he received the offer as if they are already eligible for claiming it.

To sum up, unfortunately, from the bonus offer, it's not clear the player can be ineligible to claim the bonus and our conclusion about the case remains unchanged. In our view, your aim to prevent issues like this should be to implement a feature that will not let players claim a bonus if they haven’t placed a deposit when they should have, according to the Terms and Conditions, or are not eligible to claim a certain bonus offer in general, and not to confiscate the players' winnings.

Hello Tomas,

Please note, player provided "fake" screenshot with purpose of hiding original text "Bonus T&C Apply" below button "Claim Bonus" in email sent 22/7/2022. I enclose original e-mail in attachment.

Regards to our Bonus T&C where its described who/when can claim Weekend Reload Bonus, it is written following:

10.3.4. To ensure proper use of bonuses and fair play, Mondcasino consider claiming Friday Reload, Weekend Reload, Free Spins Day or any other bonus marked as "Reload Bonus" without any other clean deposit (i.e. deposit which is not matched with any bonus) during the last 7 days prior claiming any of mentioned bonus above as bonus abuse. 

Players must deposit at least 100€ in clean deposits during last 7 days before bonuses Friday Reload, Weekend Reload, or any other bonus marked as "Reload Bonus" is claimed in order to be eligible for winnings generated with help of bonus. Players must deposit at least 50€ in clean deposits during last 7 days before bonus Free Spins Day (10.3.5) is claimed in order to be eligible for winnings generated with bonus. In case of bonus abuse mentioned above, winnings generated with help of bonus will be forfeited and deposit returned.

To conclude: Our promotion emails have written "Bonus T&C Apply" which is the same as we would written in email all bonus terms related to any bonus. This was "your request" from other complaint which was successfully closed. We will have no further conversation with player as he clearly showed intention to "fraud" us with sending "fake" misleading emails.

Thank you for understanding,

Mondcasino Team

Der Screenshot ist ja nicht gefälscht, nur weil man nicht alles darauf sieht. Eine Verlinkung ist auch nicht das gleiche wie die Auflistung der wesentlichen Bedingungen.

Hier die vollständige Mail:

Hello all,

I apologize for the late reply.

Mondcasino team,

As you pointed out, this seems to be the exact line of arguments that were presented in the previous complaint from another player: https://casino.guru/mondcasino-player-s-winnings-were-confiscated

The lines about the 100€ deposit don't represent the relevant bonus terms&conditions, and although the link to bonus terms&conditions is provided this time, the main argument of my colleague hasn't been addressed.

In our opinion, When it comes to awarding deposit bonuses, we think that it's up to the casino to decide to who they offer these bonuses.

The casino can choose to not offer bonuses to players who are not eligible for it

or

can refuse to approve bonuses if the player requests them, while not eligible

If the player who is unaware of the eligibility for the bonus requests it anyway, the player shouldn't be punished by confiscation of the winnings, once a deposit bonus is awarded.

I would like to ask you to reconsider your position about the case, and if it's in your power to implement preventive safeguards other than those you may have in place already.

Hi Tomas,

There is not much to say about player and his complaint, as player is already aware of his mistake and being not careful with reading Bonus T&C for mentioned bonus. Do not really know why you are pushing here further. Anyway, we will comment your statements.

"The lines about the 100€ deposit don't represent the relevant bonus T&C, and although the link to bonus T&C is provided this time, the main argument of my colleague hasn't been addressed."

Link to Bonus T&C represent lines about €100 deposit bonus (weekend reload bonus) so main argument of player is addressed properly and by all fair casino standards. We can paste you many emails received from other casinos with similar offers and how Bonus T&C are addressed.

"If the player who is unaware of the eligibility for the bonus requests it anyway, the player shouldn't be punished by confiscation of the winnings, once a deposit bonus is awarded."

When player claims bonus he agrees also with Bonus T&C. Even if player somehow manage to claim bonus he should be aware of Bonus T&C. To correct you; "Mentioned player was never punished with his winnings" he was not eligible for winnings generated with the help of bonus like stated in terms below.

10.3.4. To ensure proper use of bonuses and fair play, Mondcasino consider claiming Friday Reload, Weekend Reload, Free Spins Day or any other bonus marked as "Reload Bonus" without any other clean deposit (i.e. deposit which is not matched with any bonus) during the last 7 days prior claiming any of mentioned bonus above as bonus abuse. 

Players must deposit at least 100€ in clean deposits during last 7 days before bonuses Friday Reload, Weekend Reload, or any other bonus marked as "Reload Bonus" is claimed in order to be eligible for winnings generated with help of bonus.

Regards,

Mondcasino Team

Hello all,

Mondcasino team,

not expecting compensation is not the same as not wanting to receive what is fair to receive.

In this case, our position is clear. If the player was offered a deposit bonus, he deposited and successfully claimed it, it is unfair to confiscate their winnings. It's stated in our fair gambling codex.

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#restricted-bonuses

Casinos should only give bonuses to players who are allowed to get them according to the Bonus T&Cs. And if the casino makes the mistake of granting a bonus to a player who shouldn't have received it, the casino shouldn't take it away from them. Instead, the casino should accept that it was their mistake and pay out the winnings to the player.

Our other arguments we formulated only illustrate any player reading the terms of the offer cannot be sure whether they are eligible or not.

For instance, it's reasonable to assume the '100€' refers to lifetime deposits or deposits where bonuses were claimed as well for example. There is no indication the line refers to the 'clean deposits within 7 days' rule.

We are asking you again to reconsider your position and allow the player to withdraw their winnings. Much appreciated!

Hi Tomas,

Comments to your statements;

"For instance, it's reasonable to assume the '100€' refers to lifetime deposits or deposits where bonuses were claimed as well for example. There is no indication the line refers to the 'clean deposits within 7 days' rule."

a)Regards to explanation of "100€" it is explained under clause 10.3.4 and explained even more in second paragraph from same clause where its written clearly that it goes for deposits for 7 days prior/before claiming any of mentioned bonus. Surely does not give place for different interpretation and assumptions whether it goes for lifetime deposits or not.

b) Term "clean deposit" its explained in clause 10.3.4 where its written that goes for deposit without matched to any bonus.

10.3.4. To ensure proper use of bonuses and fair play, Mondcasino consider claiming Friday Reload, Weekend Reload, Free Spins Day or any other bonus marked as "Reload Bonus" without any other clean deposit (i.e. deposit which is not matched with any bonus) during the last 7 days prior claiming any of mentioned bonus above as bonus abuse. 

Conclusion

1) Player is aware of his "mistake" and he knows he is not entitled for winnings generated with help of bonus.

2) We casino did changes in past to meet your requirements for fair gambling codex. (One complaint was even solved with our actions).

3)Your assumptions and interpretations does not help any parties.

We would kindly ask you not to push further here as facts are clear for at least two parties.

Whether you believe there is a place for more brainstorming we kindly invite you to private conversion.

Mondcasino Team

Hallo,

ich verstehe den Standpunkt vom Mondcasino. Man möchte als neues Casino ja unbedingt Gewinn machen - egal auf welche Art und Weise. Man versteckt also unfaire Bedingungen gut getarnt zwischen vielen anderen (fairen) Bedingungen und hofft, dass die Spieler das nicht so genau lesen.

Ich verstehe aber nicht, wieso Mondcasino auf Casino Guru dann nicht höchstens als „fragwürdiges Casino" gekennzeichnet ist.

Noch eine Ergänzung:

ich habe auf sehr vielen Casino Seiten gespielt (>50 Seiten) - wenn ein Casino mindestens als 6/10 als Bewertung bei Casino Guru hatte, wurde ich fair behandelt und habe meine Gewinne erhalten. Auf Mondcasino ist das leider nicht so.

ich wette es gibt viele Spieler die sich betrogen fühlen, aber sich nicht die Zeit nehmen, das hier zu platzieren.

Hello all,

thanks for the feedback.

The player is aware of the mistake after the winnings were confiscated.

The previous complaint was marked as resolved after the following comment from the player(translated into English), while we insisted at all times the player should be paid in full:

Good evening.

I would like to inform you that he has contacted the casino and the issue has been resolved.

I thank you from my side, once again, for the time you have dedicated and the very good work you are doing.

We wish all casinos prevented players from breaking their rules by implementing safeguards, such as those I suggested a few posts ago. Confiscating players' winnings who made a mistake is a bad design.

Hopefully, after this case is closed, you'll see an implementation of such safeguards as a good opportunity for improving your service to players.

Hi Tomas,

We are trying hard to implement all technical features to meet with demanding gaming market requirements nowadays.

There is not a single case that Mondcasino did not show fairness and respect to any player on our gaming site. Not on Casino.guru, not somewhere else.

Please note that; isolated cases are more or less connected with bonuses or bonus abusing as you like, which is highly developed and widespread.

We have to protect ourself from such actions for the good of all parties involved.

All the best!

Mondcasino Team

Nichts für ungut - aber dies ist ein solcher Fall...

Hello all,

I apologize for not replying sooner.

We acknowledge that casinos have to protect themselves against bonus abusers. However, as per the points I made earlier, we expect they do so by preventing a situation like this case from happening in the first place.

Mondcasino,

Please let us know how you want to proceed. Much appreciated!

Hi Tomas,

Please note that we have done absolutely everything to prevent situation like this one. Do not forget also it is player responsibility to read Terms and Conditions once registering with casino and later with Bonus T&C.

Unfortunately at the moment we do not have technical solution for isolated cases like this one, which does not mean that we "Casino" act as unfair or predatory to players. We are working hard to minimize technical disadvantages in favor of all parties and to prevent situations like this one.

Frank

Mondcasino Team

Hello all,

Thanks, Doedel14, for the update.

We would like to ask the casino representative to reply.

Hi Tomas,

We as a Casino have official communication channels with players through email. Mentioned player did not sent any answer to our email box about his decision that is why we cannot comment here his statement on casino.guru as it is unofficial for us as casino.

I believe this should be understandable also for you Tomas.

Hello all,

I understand the casino's point of view.

To clarify:

We expressed our stance on the issue previously a few times and what we would expect to be a fair course of action. If there is no progress regarding the compromise between Doedel14 and the casino, we will close the complaint as unresolved as we think there are no new facts to be discussed.

I would like both parties to let us know if there was any sort of progress regarding the situation before we close the complaint as unresolved.

I'll set the timer for 7 days.

Hallo, ich habe bisher keine Rückmeldung von Mondcasino erhalten.

Hello Doedel14,

Was there any progress since your last message? Did you contact the casino with any reply?

Nein

ich hab Frank von Mond Casino gerade eine Mail geschrieben

Hi Tomas,

Please note we have found agreement with player.

Looking forward for confirmation from player so we can close this case.

Regards,

Mondcasino Team

Hello all,

thanks for the update to the Mondcasino team.

Doedel14,

Could you confirm if you consider the issue resolved?

Hallo, ich habe eine Abfindung von 100€ erhalten

Hello Doedel14,

Thanks for the update. Since you came to an agreement with the casino, we'll consider the issue resolved. I'll now close the complaint as 'solved'.

Thanks for using Casino.Guru complaints resolution center. Don't hesitate to contact us in case you have issues with any online casino in the future. We are here to help.