Kruusamägi

Hello, sorry for english, please protect Arutelu:Jossif Stalin: vandalism by WMF-banned user en:WP:LTA/GRP. Thanks in advance, --Mtarch11 (arutelu) 10. märts 2024, kell 07:44 (EET)Vasta

Kuuele sinu tehtud pildile (Fail:Leo Rohlin Sula.JPG, Fail:Viive Väljaots Torso käega.JPG, Fail:Luule Kormašova Põld.JPG, Fail:Ilmar Palm Vaas.JPG, Fail:Aino Alamaa Olgu jääv meile päike.JPG, Fail:Elgi Reemets Pudelid.JPG ) on WooteleF lisanud litsentsi {{cc-by-3.0}}. Ma oletan, et olid sellega nõus, aga ma ei leia selle kohta praegu kinnitust. Teiseks on nende muuseumis tehtud piltide juurde lisatud hiljem mall {{KunstiteoseFoto}}, mis puudutab teoseid, mis asuvad "üldsusele külastamiseks avatud kohtades alaliselt". Kui kujutatud esemed on muuseumi püsiekspositsioonis, siis võib-olla saab nende asukohta pidada alaliseks. Aga kas on kindel, et tegu on püsiekspositsiooniga? Pikne 24. märts 2024, kell 18:52 (EET)Vasta

See litsentsilisamine oli tal vist küll omaalgatuslik :) Aga eks ma oleks selle ümber teinud, kui nõus poleks.

Vahepeal on muuseum vist oma püsiekspositsiooni muutnud, aga eeldavasti on neist enamus jätkuvalt seal olemas. Need on ikka väga vanad pildid.

Kunagi oli mul miskit kirjavahetust ka muuseumiga vist sel teemal, aga seda (hot) meiliaadressi ei kasuta ma enam väga ammu. Ja ega siis oligi litsentsimajanduses veel palju segast. Nii tekkis ka Mall:ETDM.

Pm võib mõne neist ka kustutada, kui oleks tahtmist probleemsete piltide hulka vähendada. Ivo (arutelu) 25. märts 2024, kell 17:01 (EET)Vasta

Millise mõne? Ma kustutaksin kõik kuus mittevaba pilti, kui pole selge, kas või milliseid neist autoriõiguse seadus tegelikult siin erandi alusel kasutada võimaldab. Pikne 25. märts 2024, kell 18:27 (EET)Vasta

Nt Fail:Leo Rohlin Sula.JPG ja Fail:Elgi Reemets Pudelid.JPG on mõlemad kasutusel kolmes artiklis.

Kui vaadata siia kategooriasse, siis erandite alusel kasutatavaid pilte on meil ikka oluliselt suurem hulk. Ivo (arutelu) 25. märts 2024, kell 18:41 (EET)Vasta

Need on üldjuhul pildid hoonetest ja skulptuuridest, mis on alaliselt väljas avalikus kohas. Küsin nende kuue pildi kohta, sest mulle ei ole selge, kas kujutatud esemed asuvad "üldsusele külastamiseks avatud kohtades alaliselt" ehk kas sama erand on neile laiendatav. Pikne 25. märts 2024, kell 19:27 (EET)Vasta

Püsiekspositsiooni võiks minu arvates küll alaliseks paigutamiseks pidada ja avalik muuseum on samuti üldsusele avatud. Ivo (arutelu) 26. märts 2024, kell 08:04 (EET)Vasta

Seda küll, et muuseumi näitusesaal arvatavasti sobib selle erandiga kokku. Üldsusele avatud koha näitena on seaduses toodud muu hulgas ka näitusesaal. Segasem on minu jaoks see, millisel juhul on asukoht või väljapanek alaline. Kui ka loeme püsiekpositsiooni alaliseks, siis näib ikkagi, et me tegelikult ei tea praegu, kas need kuus eset või millised neist on tegelikult püsiekspositsioonis. Pikne 26. märts 2024, kell 21:29 (EET)Vasta

Ma ei ole seal muuseumis väga sageli käinud. Pärast toda külastust üleeelmisel kümnendil nüüd ka korra eelmisel aastal, aga siis ma ekstra neid objekte ei otsinud (kuigi mingit osa neist nägin küll seal, aga ei julgeks täie kindlusega nimetada, et milliseid). Ivo (arutelu) 27. märts 2024, kell 10:53 (EET)Vasta

Tere! Kuna juhtus pea 15 aastat tagasi, siis loomulikult põhjust enam ei mäletanud. Hakkasin siis oma kaastööde ajalugu lappama ja tuletasin meelde, et CC-BY 3.0 asendas kodukootud ja nüüdseks kustutatud litsentsimärgise EestiFotograaf, mis põhimõtteliselt oligi eestipärastatud CC-BY 3.0. Küllap oli sellekohane arutelu ka kuskil, ei viitsi otsida. RobertRSMN (arutelu) 30. oktoober 2024, kell 23:27 (EET)Vasta

Päris nii ei olnud. EestiFotograaf ja need teised paar sarnast malli olid mittevaba sisu jaoks. Mingeid vaba sisu tunnuseid nende juures ei olnud, erinevalt CC vaba sisu litsentsidest. CC litsentside vanemad versioonid seejuures olid siin kasutusel enamvähem algusest peale. Pikne 31. oktoober 2024, kell 22:59 (EET)Vasta

See läheb paljuski sinna aega tagasi, kus ei olnud eriti selge, et mida me tohime Vikipeedias välja tuua ja mida mitte. Samas võib alati küsisid, kas me seda praegugi täie kindlusega teame (või äkki suudame mõne asja puhul isegi seadusloomet mõjutada). Kõige ilmsem asi, millele püüaks nüüd tähelepanu suunata, on panoraamivabaduse kehtestamine Eestis. Keerulisem küsimus on, et mis saaks pärast seda. Ivo (arutelu) 1. november 2024, kell 01:26 (EET)Vasta

Palun vaata Kasutaja arutelu:Taivo#Pilt:Parreesia filmi plakat.jpg. --Andres (arutelu) 30. märts 2024, kell 20:32 (EET)Vasta

Please see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Kruusam%C3%A4gi. 80.115.106.36 18. aprill 2024, kell 00:48 (EEST)Vasta

Tervitus, härrasmees. Tegin praegu ühe artikli nimega ''Litsentsitasu'', palun vaadake see üle. Kui midagi on valesti, palun parandage või öelge mulle, parandan siis ise. MoroccoCentral (arutelu) 3. juuli 2024, kell 21:33 (EEST)Vasta

See artikkel oli juba varem olemas. Kas pead silmas artiklit "Litsentsimakse"? Seal pole viiteid ega siselinke. Ivo (arutelu) 4. juuli 2024, kell 16:03 (EEST)Vasta

Jah, nägin nüüd. Kusjuures ma ei teadnud, et see artikkel eksisteerib. Vabandage väga. See artikkel ei olnud ingliskeelse Wikipedia artikliga lingitud. Ma ei tea, kumma te alles jätate, aga no ladna. See on teie valik. MoroccoCentral (arutelu) 4. juuli 2024, kell 19:40 (EEST)Vasta

Suunasin uue artikli vana juurde. Üks on ikkagi seaduses mainitud mõiste. Nüüd on ka interviki linkidega korras. Tänan sellele tähelepanu juhtimast. Ivo (arutelu) 5. juuli 2024, kell 13:15 (EEST)Vasta

Hi everyone,

We would like to invite you to submit your responses to the survey dedicated to the tools that are used currently across the Wikimedia projects and the tools that you want to have.

This survey was made by the working group of the CEE Hub, and your responses will be reviewed afterwards, as we want to continue supporting the communities. That support can be documentation for certain most used tools by other communities across the region per specific topics, finding solutions for new tools to be created in the future, creating most needed tools in the region (so called "regional wishlist list"), and many other options.

Deadline to fill in the survey is 20th of August, 2024.

Submit your answers here

Thank you in advance for your time that you will dedicate in filling in this survey --MediaWiki message delivery (arutelu) 26. juuli 2024, kell 16:07 (EEST)Vasta

hi! was nice to see you at wikimania!

so... let's start with the simple stuff. reference cleanup. there is a simple part where you have multiple references with same content. as of August 1, you have approx. 3400 articles that have at least one such duplicate. i can fix those automatically with a bot. i did a run for lvwiki just now, so you can see what could be the changes: see for edits with summary "apvienotas atsauces".

how is ref name made (truncating [see below] is applied for everything except first and last bulletpoints):

• if there is multiple references <ref name="foo">baz</ref> then that name is reused
• for references in style of <ref>[https://foo baz]</ref>, title ("baz") is used
• if you have used those cite-web (or similar) templates, then the pealkiri (or title) field is used
• if there is url in reference, then last part of path used if it's not too long (https://domain/some/path/to/data -> data)
• otherwise the reference content is used
• if for some reason none of the above work (there might be cases, when even the last point doesn't fullfill needs), generic names as "ReferenceA" (ReferenceB etc.) are used.

of course, probably not all 3400 articles can be automatically fixed (for article filtering i use different tehnique), but this should handle 95% of all articles. after first cleanup, we can check what's left and how to fix those.

i can easily run script on all articles, but i would need an approval first. unfortunantely, i don't have an easy way of showing changes before making them, but i can do edits in incrementing batch size (at first - fix 10 articles, then 50, then 500, then all?). also maybe a bot flag would be ok, so that recent changes page isn't spammed?

about truncating: i make a slug of title (or url or content) and then truncate the result to 150 characters. Works pretty fine. of course, if proposed reference name is already used, then nothing is done. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 13. august 2024, kell 22:08 (EEST)Vasta

Seems good :) If already 90% of articles with this problem could be fixed with the bot, then that would be absolutely super.

Maybe the length of the ref name could be reduced to no more than 10 characters.

Feel free to fix 50 articles. If all works well, then we might give the bot flag. Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 11:19 (EEST)Vasta

not sure if such short refnames would be a good idea, but can try that for sure. and for the "preview" - i found a solution, that's maybe not perfect, but i could get up pretty easily. here (warning: it might take some time to open the page in browser) is a dry run of bot actions for references (those were article texts as of August 1, but in the end editing of course would be done on live articles). i assume the output is pretty much self-explanatory, but speak out if you don't have any idea what's visible there :) you can check the list and give a final "good-to-go" sign.

and for bot edits to confirm: i will edit as EdgarsBot (my bot account)? and what edit summary to use? Edgars2007 (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 16:48 (EEST)Vasta

That looks very good!

For an edit summary maybe: "korduvviidete ühendamine" (merging duplicate references). Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 17:37 (EEST)Vasta

done those 50 edits. this probably is the best example why having short refnames would be a little bit bad idea (<ref name="natali-201">Natali 2013: 11.</ref>), but yeah, it probably would take an overengineered solution to implement something more context-aware. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 18:13 (EEST)Vasta

There are many randomly generated ref names in et.wiki. For that reason I don't worry if some names are semi-random. Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 19:10 (EEST)Vasta

I think you are fine to go with the bot. Ivo (arutelu) 16. august 2024, kell 20:23 (EEST)Vasta

ran the bot. fixed 2,986 articles. skipped those with reference defining in reference section (what i did mention in summer days) to reduce possibility of issues. will fix those later. later will also be possible to see what is left to fix. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 20. august 2024, kell 09:33 (EEST)Vasta

fixed 417 more articles. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 25. august 2024, kell 15:10 (EEST)Vasta

everything seems to be fixed. now it is simply matter of maintanence to fix new articles. can run it automatically after checking new dumps without my intervention if that sounds ok with you.

p.s. about "everything is fixed" - well, there are a few hundred(?) articles which contain not exact ref duplicates but something that should be considered dubplicated. see for example Kirjaoskus article. it currently has two references with title of "Funktsionaalne kirjaoskus", one of them simply is uppercase. i haven't worked with those yet also in lvwiki, so will have to look how good idea is to fix such cases automatically and maybe something should be added to booster or smth. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 2. september 2024, kell 22:36 (EEST)Vasta

fixed some more articles: those which have the same reference, but with multiple names. see this edit for example. now etwiki has only 215 articles with at least one reference, that is considered duplicate. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 5. oktoober 2024, kell 00:50 (EEST)Vasta

was able to fix some more, now we are at ~180 articles. it seems that for the last part i could use some support :) i probably won't have time to include this in booster so we can use wiki for this. here is a list of all duplicate references, somebody should pick for each reference the right one. i don't know about format, but maybe add a "+" before reference? then bot could use that information to cleanup article. no other changes should be made in the list. of course, it is ok to manually fix the article itself. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 6. oktoober 2024, kell 00:02 (EEST)Vasta

And there is also this category, which lists articles with problematic references, but trying to fix them as well might be done later. There are many options there. Like some reference duplicates have stuff like <cite class="citation web cs1" data-ve-ignore="true"> [...] </cite> in them. Some references have no content. Some are no longer used (but maybe should be used). Etc. Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 17:56 (EEST)Vasta

about Kategooria:Viitamistõrgetega leheküljed - one thing at time, Ivo :) Edgars2007 (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 18:13 (EEST)Vasta

For this linked category, I agree that this should be looked later. I just wanted to point out, that there are few more things that could be fixed with refs. Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 19:10 (EEST)Vasta

i have no idea (without scanning wikipedia) how wide that problem is here, but also those bare urls (<ref>https://some/cool/site</ref>) are in ref-related issues. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 19:27 (EEST)Vasta

Yes, bare URL refs have been a really annoying problem. We have many of them, but it might be challenging to fix that. Ivo (arutelu) 14. august 2024, kell 23:36 (EEST)Vasta

not entirely true :) there is a tool called refill that does that (example of result). of course, extracted information depends largely on website, but it should be better than bare link. and yes, i can run that automatically with bot ;) have done that on lv.wiki Edgars2007 (arutelu) 16. august 2024, kell 20:47 (EEST)Vasta

as of August 1, you have approx 3k articles with at least two bare urls. it should be relatively simple to adapt existing tools for not using cite-web (and other) templates. so - what's the format of fixed reference that you aim for? <ref>[https://url title], websiteName, author, date_of_publication</ref>? of course, not all websites will make easy retrieval of all of these attributes. can make some custom extraction for those most popular in Estonia (ERR, delfi, postimees, something else?), if needed. and what format for dates - "21. august 2024"? Edgars2007 (arutelu) 21. august 2024, kell 16:32 (EEST)Vasta

Kasutaja:Edgars2007/Duplicate images. didn't include .svg files, because in more than 95% cases it should be fine to be used more than once. didn't do much cleanup of false positives of other formats and patterns, but i acknowledge that there are many false positives :) didn't also had idea how ypu want to have the listing - maybe something can be changed in representation for next updates. --Edgars2007 (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 11:55 (EEST)Vasta

Seems promissing. I think that .png and .gif images can also be ignored. They make up nearly half of the listed images there, but are similar to svg in that part of likely being false positives. Ivo (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 13:37 (EEST)Vasta

makes sense, regenerated the list. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 14:49 (EEST)Vasta

There are also articles like that, what might be maybe partly sorted out if articles with more than 3 different repeating images are ignored. And there are articles like that, where the repeating image is in the template, but sorting out them might be more difficult. Ivo (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 19:40 (EEST)Vasta

Maybe I was unclear on the part with the difficulty in templates. Trick is that if the repeating image is in the navigation template, then it might be ok, but if it repeats in the infobox, then not so. Ivo (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 20:13 (EEST)Vasta

implemented both of those things and updated the list. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 2. september 2024, kell 23:27 (EEST)Vasta

next thing: report about articles which link to other number. Kasutaja:Edgars2007/Year links (data as of August 1). not too bad. --Edgars2007 (arutelu) 20. august 2024, kell 17:55 (EEST)Vasta

Thanks! I now looked and fixed some of the articles. Some are still left to fix. And some are also not actual problems (like UEFA Euro 2020 was held in 2021). Ivo (arutelu) 21. august 2024, kell 15:55 (EEST)Vasta

One type mistake is also .[ref]. like this. Ivo (arutelu) 22. august 2024, kell 12:46 (EEST)Vasta

Might you please run the year links thing once more? Ivo (arutelu) 22. august 2024, kell 17:49 (EEST)Vasta

about regenerating lists: that's not how it works :) you see, i use Wikipedia database dumps which contain wikitext for all articles. they get produced at 1st and 20th day of each month (ok, 1st and 20th are the cutoff dates for dumps and the files are available a little bit later). but yes, of course, i can regenerate it after September 1. Edgars2007 (arutelu) 23. august 2024, kell 19:32 (EEST)Vasta

btw, I think you mentioned that you want to fill coordinates for images in commons. i haven't tried myself, but it seems that there already is a tool ofr that: locator-tool Edgars2007 (arutelu) 23. august 2024, kell 19:34 (EEST)Vasta

Yes, the locator-tool is good for that. What I meant was that this thing should also be possible while uploading images. Ivo (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 13:41 (EEST)Vasta

ah, didn't catch that tiny detail :) Edgars2007 (arutelu) 24. august 2024, kell 14:50 (EEST)Vasta

Hi everyone,

During August 2024, we sent you a survey about the tools, so now we would like to bring to your attention the conclusions and results from the survey, which you can explore on this Meta page.

I hope you will enjoy exploring the mentioned tools on the page, along with other conclusions from the survey. Thanks for your time, and we will continue working on this important topic. --MediaWiki message delivery (arutelu) 7. oktoober 2024, kell 15:10 (EEST)Vasta