User talk:Berean Hunter/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Berean Hunter. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Hello, Berean, I tried to insert a picture of Tadeusz Kościuszko into the gallery of the United States Bicentennial article, and it doesn't seem to be appearing. Your technical assistance would be appreciated. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Berean, I took care of it. Put it in the text and not the gallery. It seems to have worked, until somebody edits it out at least. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:41, 11 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Getting what you wanted: Check this syntax for galleries..you drop the external brackets, and don't use any of the piped attributes except the caption. Of future help maybe,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:24, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. So much stuff I don't know . . . 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Berean, having a problem with a road sign. Can you figurure it out? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Hi Stan, I think that I have it worked out but see the Delta County, Michigan article for roadsigns..there is no 513 but there are two different 13's (one is a forestry road)..I think I picked the right one but I would need you to doublecheck that.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

It's good to have knowledgable friends in high places. Thank you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Berean, I've already done this for the Lighthouses in the United States and the Michigan lighthouse navbox. It just needs the final more general redirect. Obviously, the article needs to be further improved, if we are going in that direction. Best. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

It isn't. Does need the redirect. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Or maybe they should all be changed to Gull Rock Light, which is what I have them now saying. We will still need the redirect for the two, I think. There is a Gull Rock article that goes to a California Island. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Sta

I haven't been on wiki much in the last 24 hours but will look to this later in the day (I hope. Real life is kinda hectic right now.) Too bad they don't still have lightkeepers as a career..I think I'd jump into that right now...has to be better than what I'm doing now. If you decide on the names, I'll create the redirects...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I think Gull Rock Light and Gull Rock (Michigan) redirect to Gull Rock Light. Miss your presence. thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Stan

Redirects now made. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I am the author of "Reliving the Civil War, a Reenactor's Handbook." Thanks for your kind words.

Hadden (talk) 18:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• WP:COI does apply, though I'd discount it somewhat in the case of American Civil War reenactment (which is the only article he's edited with which I'm familiar), given that his book was already a heavily cited source there; there's not much self-promotional value to be gained there. cmadler (talk) 21:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It's nice to see someone else coming in to answer silly fancruft questions and removing crap entries on the article. For a while, I felt like the only one. It can be just ridiculous sometimes - the Lizzie Borden bobble head doll? Sheesh. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I know...amazing what people will exploit to make a few $$. I'm surprised no one has brand-labeled a hatchet yet. I try to remove cruft everywhere I see it (please no more Simpsons, Seinfeld, or Pez dispenser references!) ;)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I can't figure out why Alacrastore is not a suitable link; granted, most Alacrastore links offer more information than the MakeMyTrip Alacrastore link, but 1. The stated reason on your original edit isn't really in the WP source you cited, and 2. For perspective, consider the following, the External links section of article Gundam; the majority of these links have some commercial content:

• External links
  • Official Gundam website (in Japanese)
  • GundamOfficial Official website for Gundam in North America
  • Official Gundam website in Taiwan (in Chinese)
  • Gundam at the Mecha Anime Headquarters website
  • Gundam at Gears Online
  • Gundam at Wikia
  • Gundam Reference Data

Why should the commercial-content-related links in this list be OK, while Alacrastore is not?....There is a reason for the Alacrastore link to be there; company articles on the Wikipedia normally have to have some kind of verification of notability, viz WP:ORG, this #1 Ranked online travel agency is notable, but without that external link that points to its inclusion at financial information sources, like Hoover's, Bloomberg, Alacrastore, it might be deleted due to its non-notability. Which is why the link is there in the first place. Does any of this make sense to you? Cheers. --Mr Accountable (talk) 23:32, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for responding, I'm considering in particular WP:ELNO and I see Alacrastore as a commercial site (they want $4 to actually see the report which fails criteria for charging money to see the information.)...otherwise, there isn't anything encyclopedic about the link. Notability is currently established and doesn't need defending here (you could use the talk page if it did rather than the article)...I'm actually thinking of the value of the link to the average reader rather than to other wiki editors..I do understand where you are coming from. When linking in articles, it is a good idea to consider what would be linked for a feature article and use those guidelines (see WP:FACR).

The Gundam stuff vs. the MakemyTrip article strikes me as other stuff exists in general. But specifically, two of the links fail WP:EL for not being in English (since the official site is listed in English that precludes the inclusion of official sites in other languages (see WP:EL#Non-English language content). I understand that is a separate issue but these don't make for good examples because some of them fail WP:EL.

Does this help? Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 01:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, when it comes time to defend a company in India, Africa, et cetera, the people who nominate the articles for deletion are looking for references to established financial directories in the article's External links section, or even better, as a reference or source, material on the Discussion page isn't generally helpful. The material at WP:ORG, which is Wikipedia:Organizations, lists some criteria for notability of organizations, and halfway down there is a specific guideline recommending that finance directories be used, the example given is Hoover's. Alacrastore is similar to Hoover's. ... In putting the Alacrastore links on company articles that need notability, sometimes the Alacrastore link is more helpful than the one here at MakeMyTrip, and one makes the edit thinking that as time goes by and Alacrastore or Bloomberg continue building their service, that the relatively paltry individual entry will of course be improved. Lots of Alacrastore listings have much more to them, to show this, please try clicking Alacrastore's Standard Chartered Bank Ghana, and then check the Gale profile or D&B profile below. Sites like Hoover's, Alacrastore and Wrightreports have corporate research available for a fee, some of it actually quite expensive, but they consider it their duty to provide free information on the widest possible selection of companies. To summarize: value to the reader exists in seeing that the company isn't fake, and in most cases there is much more at the Alacrastore link than in the case of MakeMyTrip; (and one hopes that if MakeMyTrip continues to be successful, their listing will expand.) --Mr Accountable (talk) 01:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

+ Companies in Pennsylvania, London, Tokyo normally have a lot of information available on the net, in English; in regards to India, Africa, Malaysia et cetera, I am sure there is a WP guideline somewhere that recommends giving leniency in terms of considering the geographical context of a given company.--Mr Accountable (talk) 01:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

What other notability links can you find? Readers are smart enough to see that they are not a fake organization by using their favorite search engine. I found this news quip, complaints, and an article from a reliable source. Any of these will work for what you wish to establish...you could use one of those or perhaps there are others...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:00, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you mean "What other notability links exist on the Wikipedia?" Notability is a regular issue at Wikipedia:Deletion, with regard to people, books, magazines, media product, and organizations. Of course, readers aren't required to conduct a notability search to determine whether a Wikiarticle is a sham, the link is there in the article itself, which link and article are under the purview of editors, WikiProjects, discussions and sometimes administrators. --Mr Accountable (talk) 02:08, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

More Wikiinformation: Wikipedia:Improving referencing efforts. --Mr Accountable (talk) 02:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

And finally, there is often a great difference between a topic's article and the topic itself, compare Punj Lloyd and Punj Lloyd. TTK Group and TTK Healthcare. --Mr Accountable (talk) 03:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

...is awesome. That is all. Graymornings_(talk) 02:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

☻... Thanks! ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

What sort of citation do I need to have? Would posting the photograph be of interest? How would I do that?Crockermud (talk) 17:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello - to answer your grammatical issue, Whitman's anger issues were different than the fathers. Whitman realized his anger issues and sought help at the University Health Center. On a different note, I see you are a North Carolinian. I am in Asheville, you close to here? Victor9876 (talk) 13:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello, on Whitman, I see this edit as one of grammatical substitutions without changing the meaning of what is written..I don't see how the anger issues would affect this edit. My concern when reverting was to accept the anon's edits which seemed reasonable and didn't want us biting a newbie.

I'm near Pilot Mountain..you live in beautiful country and a beautiful town...it has been a few years since I've been that way unfortunately. I think we were having fun at Sliding Rock, and a few other places nearby and stayed in Asheville. You still have snow on the ground? We don't, yesterday was relatively warm.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

No snow here now. It lasted wo days at most. Most it fell in Madison County and the western counties. Yes, it is beautiful here. I was born here but raised in Detroit and lived in many other areas including Austin, Texas where I was writing a motion picture screenplay about Whitman. Then, Eric and Dylan did their Columbine massacre and the project got dropped for fear of copy-cats. I have all of Whitman's records and interviews of many involved directly with the tragedy. Currently, I'm putting together the equipment to do a documentary (justs pro lights needed). Then to Camp Leguene and Jacksonville, onto Savannah (where Whitman's mother and father married and he was conceived), back to Lake Worth, Fla., an then Austin (where I probably will either be shot, or go to jail - UT devotee's don't like my blaming the University for allowing the tragedy to happen, that point will be made in the documentary). Just so you know, I wrote the lead-in and weighed my wording carefully, Whitman had periods of non-academic success as well, he was advised to change his major to mechanical engineering due to the rigors of the other program. Also, in his diary, he shows the influence of the mother over the father, he later realized his reactions were becoming more like the father and sought help on advise of his wife and others. The psychiatrist, even though he noted Whitman's rage and emotions, failed to gain Whitman's trust, so Whitman never returned, "to no avail" is how Whitman described the session in his letters left at the home he murdered his wife in. If you follow some of the links about Houston McCoy, you will find my role in helping him with his PTSD. Not all of the info is correct in the articles, but I can't control what the media does after an interview, which is why I don't give them anymore. Sorry for the long response, just wanted you to know that I understand your grammatical changes, they just don't reflect the records I have, or the intention of my writing the lead-in. We can leave it in if you feel compelled to do so, if not, would you mind if I change them back? Cordially! Victor9876 (talk) 15:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Whoa! I wrote that Whitman had periods of "non-academic sucess as well", that should have said academic failures as well. Sorry!Victor9876 (talk) 15:38, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Tell ya what..if you leave the edits as is for a couple of days then you can change it back as far as I'm concerned. It is good when someone not familiar with Wikipedia makes edits that stick for a bit..I believe that it gives them more confidence to try editing some more and then hopefully they join us. If they are always reverted quickly they can become discouraged and we may scare off a potential editor. I believe the person that made those original edits was genuinely trying to help and I'm trying to think of them a bit. I am assuming that they are a newbie which could be wrong but I would want to give benefit of a doubt. Does this work for you?

I wish you well on the documentary and look forward to watching it. Hopefully, we wouldn't have any more events that would cause them to pull your film. I remember when the DC sniper events put a long hold on Phone Booth causing that to lose money badly. I could not bring myself to blame UT anymore than I would blame VA Tech for the shootings there...in both cases very determined individuals weren't going to be stopped by procedures. At the time of Whitman such things were implausible and just didn't happen...it was beyond comprehension. Most school personnel weren't trained for dealing with trained Marines. Sidenote: The USMC used the Winchester Model 70 with an Inertl scope as the core weapon for building up their sniper platform...Whitman chose the Army's core weapon, the Remington 700 (Army would have used a Weaver scope, though). Whitman had good taste with his choice of weapons. What model/make of shotgun was it? Sears sold several 'house brands' at that time which would have included J.C. Higgins, Stevens, Winchester 1200s, and about a dozen other subcontracted manufacturers. Is it my imagination or wasn't the weapons inventory for Whitman more complete in the article at one time? (3 handguns with no make/model listed). Seems like details have been removed...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

No problem with helping newbies. Check their contribution record and if they have more than 50 contribes, I would say they aren't newbies anymore at that level. I put the photos of Whitman and some of the guns on the page. Below the .357 Mag picture you will see a blue Wiki-source box with police records marked on it, here is the box opened if you click on: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman_police_report. As to UT, it was their Doctor, an employee of UT that underminded Whitman's threats. At VT, the Court System allowed Cho to return after warnings from the Health Community who had been contacted by VT and assessed him as a high level threat. VT did the right thing and helped the victims, UT never has. Also check out Andrew Kehoe Victor9876 (talk) 04:17, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

where are the graves at and is the bridge with the graves? -Lana —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.168.204.10 (talk) 16:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Lana, The graves are only about a 1/4-1/2 mile from where the murders took place...graveyard is a meadow in the woods and not obvious from the road. Visiting in the daytime is healthy if your intentions are good. I have been reluctant to list GPS coordinates here on Wikipedia because I worry that someone with bad intentions could come in and vandalize...I'm still thinking on that issue. I'm not sure which bridge they are referring to and hope seriously that it wasn't anything more than a footbridge (I don't think that the NCDOT would have used wood from an old house for a road-bridge..at least I hope not.)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:57, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

The photo I refer to happens to be on the cover of a CD historical essay of Marathon County. It's featured in an ad by the producers, Digital Dialogue. Inc. It can be viewed at: http://www.digitaldialogue.net/portfolio.cfm?sec=portfolio&id=31. Would that qualify as in the public domain? It also comes up on "images" for "Marathon County loggers".Crockermud (talk) 18:40, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

No, it would be in the public domain if it were from the Federal Government, or older than 1922, or the original photographer willfully places it in the public domain...otherwise the photographer retains the copyrights and only they can change that...Sorry,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:02, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

One more point regarding the photo referred to: It was taken during the nineteeth century; the photographer is anonymous and dead. Public domain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crockermud (talk • contribs) 20:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

In that case the photo may indeed be in the public domain but you would need to locate a copy that isn't copyrighted...i.e. the CD version only protects getting the photo from that particular source (presuming that the CD is copyrighted). If you can find the public domain source then yes, you can upload that. Local library perhaps? Hope that helps...what info do you know about the photo? Maybe I can help hunt for the public domain source (tell me what you know about it), Cheers
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

While I appreciate your reporting of vandals in the correct manner, edits such as this one, are less than helpful. I realize how frustrating it can be at times, however please have a little more patience and a little less vulgarity in the future. Thanks. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 04:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I reported it at 4:17 UTC at WP:AIV and the vandal hits the page 4 more times after a Level 4 Warning until 4:41...almost half an hour later..what was going on that the response was that slow? Frustrating yes. I was trying to work through other pages and the vandal kept vandalizing the page. I will try to refrain a bit with the language in the future...not trying to offend but trying to wake someone up...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:58, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice job. I enjoy them. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thank you, I hope to improve on quantity and quality when I can get more free time. Real life is a busy crunch at the moment. Springtime should afford good picture opportunities. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Hal, I saw your edit summary here and started to install the script to do it but there is a temporary injunction against using them from ArbCom while that case is being heard. I didn't want you to think you were being ignored...:)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:38, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I had no visibility into this. (It continues to amaze me what an enormous bureaucracy is lurking behind this open project.) I have been doing some manual date delinking in conjunction with other substantive edits. Do you recommend that I cease doing so? Is there any chance the date-formatting links will be blessed again? Hal Jespersen (talk) 17:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm hoping to address this in a few moments (getting over technical issues). No, I wouldn't recommend that you cease, I'm being told that some of the delinking is okay here. I'll try it in a moment...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I've got the script installed to do the job now and hope to stay abreast of the ArbCom case looking for a green or red light. Personally, I'm in favor of delinking dates..cleans up the code that we are trying to edit. I've looked at the diffs (without saving) on List of American Civil War battles and the number of changes is quite substantial. Neat tool!
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I think a considerable amount of manual tweaking will be required for this one. It's pretty sloppy in its punctuation now. Hal Jespersen (talk) 19:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

–xeno (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Berean, I enlisted Thehelpfulone, and he has efficiently done some great work with the use of his bot. He is a good resource, I think. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Stan

That does look like a resourceful bot/script...I may need to fire up a Windows machine to experiment with it. I don't believe that AWB works with Ubuntu which is what I'm using most of the time. If you are using Windows, you should consider using AWB (Huggle too for that matter). I'll get around to experimenting one of these days...8^D
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Y'know, you're supposed to give them warnings before just telling them they're gonna die. - Denimadept (talk) 21:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

uh-oh, did I bite someone somewhere?⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

User talk:68.227.217.64 - Denimadept (talk) 06:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

If it appears obvious that we aren't going to get sincere edits and that the nature of the edit is something like this where they aren't here to do any good..why waste time trying to put them through 4 hoops? They lose my consideration for good faith. I use 4im when it is very obvious that it is a vandal and we don't want to waste time on them.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 10:20, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Not so much a vandal, as a silly little boy. If you don't put them through the necessary hoops you won't be able to make good on the promise - AIV will just push it back. I'd almost be prepared to just revert and give them a free pass. It's always useful to look through their 'back catalogue' - you can then easily identify someone who's an incorrigible vandal. If they have a history of vandalism, it's easier to just block em for disruption - even when they have few, or no warnings - but are active now. HTH Kbthompson (talk) 10:58, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully, the teeth in the message scares them straight. I agree with your synopsis that it is a silly little boy. Fwiw, all my 4im's that I've submitted to AIV have led to blocks..not that I keep an exact track but I believe that only two (maybe three) of my submissions ever for any reason have not led to blocks. Maybe I should keep track of that...but here are a few more recent blocks from my 4im's submitted to AIV to illustrate my usage and hopefully relieve and assure Denimadept...1, 2, 3, 4. I may have been a bit heavy-handed with the "silly little boy" and will give that some thought. I also appreciate and welcome the feedback and constructive criticism...it certainly helps. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:37, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

It's just a case of identifying whether it's a 'to prove I can'; or someone actively vandalising - ie multiple instances within and beyond the article. The later are doing major damage. What's happened with Huggle - and things recently; an awful lot of those auto-reverts have vanished? They were a pain in the arse anyway - everything moved so fast, and lots of little stuff slipped through. Kbthompson (talk) 13:37, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

That said, I just issued a "4im" for unsourced bio violations - they'd also deleted previous warnings. If that one does any more dodgy edits, then they really are history! Kbthompson (talk) 13:44, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, if they delete warnings, I don't give them any slack at all, but that's fairly rare in my experience. - Denimadept (talk) 18:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to keep the plastic fangs put away and make sure not to bite...maybe I'll just tell'em Santa Claus doesn't exist next time. j/k 8^D
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:43, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Whew, I'd hate to think Santa Claus doesn't exist! - Denimadept (talk) 15:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

AWB is only semi-automated so you get chance to stop it doing anything with an injunction against it, before it does it. So if someone went wrong with it, it's their own fault rather than the script's. But I just found out it only likes Windows.:( Sticky Parkin 13:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

There is good news for you..it runs on WINE which was written for unix-like platforms but it has been ported for Mac (see this and this for getting started). If you install it, it will allow you to run Windows programs on your Mac without you having to have the underlying Microsoft OS.

The script that I'm using also allows you to see in a preview everything that will happen in the edit before you commit to it. See my usage here (note that I got consensus before using it). This script is the precise one under injunction...I'm starting to wonder if that injunction only applies to the involved parties of the ArbCom case by the way it is worded.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:32, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The injunction's just about dates or something. The AWB should let you preview everything automatically, like you say your thing does, so there's no need to go wrong and break the dates injunction if people are careful. Some people run bots etc that specifically target dates, or something like that. If someone abuses AWB it can just be removed from them, so the fact some people have abused it doesn't mean the rest of us are advised not to use it. Sticky Parkin 16:13, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I see...I've already got Wine installed in this Linux machine so I may give it a look. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much for taking out the stupid stuff about the Charleston Symphony from the Free Bird entry. (I've had flu and was bored enough to track the edit...) The conductor himself had informed me last fall that not only is it not true, he has no idea what "Free Bird" is (and being that it was not written by Gustav Mahler, I believe him :P ) and he doesn't know how that got put onto Wikipedia in the first place. Anyway, thank you very much. You can rest assured that you, personally, removed a falsehood from Wikipedia.

<3 one of the kids —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.180.27.225 (talk • contribs)

You are very welcome. We try to curb hoaxes and falsehoods by requiring citations from reliable sources.

I hope you get to feeling better...⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm inclined to let it go. The name itself really is not offensive to anyone and it doesn't break the username policy otherwise. Most users with usernames such as that are vandals, but since this one is not I think that we should just let it go. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Malinaccier (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Have Black & Tan (Guiness and Harp (although they are owned ironically by South African Brewing Company). Enjoy the day. Best regards to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:14, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Stan

Smithwick's would be an excellent choice. On the way to GR, I stopped in Webberville, Michigan which is the home to the Michigan Brewing Company. They had a red ale, which was made with rye. Yesterday I had an excellent dinner and good ale and a fine porter at Grand Rapids Brewing Company. They have a really good chef and fine food; for a micobrewery the cuisine ranks very high. I didn't have the corned beef and cabbage, as I know my daughter in law cooked up a bunch, and I'll be having it when I get home (I'm in Dayton, Ohio presently). Nice to haer from you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Stan

Pionta Guinness, le do thoil. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Stan

i must protest! how is it vandalism when i all i did was revert the article back to what it was before known-nationalist M.K. got to it? i had a look at the german, french and spanish wikipedias, and its only the political correctness in the EN one that attaches "lithuanian" to him, even though most lithunians today don't want anything to do with him (and how they treat poles in lithuania at this point) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.190.113.128 (talk) 10:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

You took out something that was referenced without explaining anything in an edit summary here. Using edit summaries is always a good idea...and why would you remove a reference?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Just went back to see what it was that you did that caused me to write that comment on your page and I realized that you had corrected the edit that was vandalism, not created it. I apologize, I should have thanked you instead of being rude. Sorry.Joshuashearn (talk) 10:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, no, I don't use WP:UTN. I've never seen that until now (still kind of new at editing here). Thanks for the heads up. Again, sorry about the confusion earlier, I kind of feel horrible about that. I get so sick and tired of all the vandalism on here. Joshuashearn (talk) 14:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Jus a quick reminder, in UTC time it's April Fool's Day, the one day where Wikipedians everywhere get to act wacky and unwind. So be sure not to miss out on all the fun!! By the way, your account has been hijacked by Jimmy Wales' rival, April Fools! The Pink Phink :  Text me!  00:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

Take a look at this edit. Del Shannon's death 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:05, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

That wasn't an assignment! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

I have been far too busy today maintaining the London portal to block you for offering for financial gain to carry out legal threats and organised sockpuppetry on wikipedia. I find that after 12:00 UTC if the situation has not been remediated, I am likely to have the time. BTW: can I have my talk page back if you've quite finished spamming articles in which you have a clear conflict of interest. Kbthompson (talk) 23:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

(sigh)...I guess the legal profession isn't for me; no one took the bait offer. I'm thinking about going into real estate..I have a lovely piece of property for sale if you are interested.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:02, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice; I used to use it for free quite regularly. I feel no need at this time to invest in public infrastructure. I do however, have an investment opportunity for you! Kbthompson (talk) 09:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern. However, if you take the time to visit, you will see the The Gardening Channel is a source of free information which is available to all without the need to pay or sign up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisbradley09 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Can I ask which browser you are using to watch the videos?, as there have been no previous complaints. Can I also ask, in what authority do you work for wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisbradley09 (talk • contribs) 16:10, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for uping the ante on the AC-130 page.

Be Bold In Edits (talk) 02:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! :) ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Some of the footnotes still need to be consolidated, so to speak. Particularly "Howard, J. Woodford, Jr., Mr. Justice Murphy: A Political Biography (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press: 1968)."Thanks for jumping in. Happy Easter and Passover to you, too! and "^ "Bak, Richard, "(Frank) Murphy's Law", Hour Detroit, September, 2008.". http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detroit/September-2008/Frank-Murpheys-Law/." 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

I have to go soon but can revisit the article later today...curious, have you crosschecked all the notes & refs to Google books to see if they exist? If not, I can do that later but I didn't want to repeat a task someone may have already completed. I have to go take care of chores (yawn). Happy Easter to you too!
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes. They are all my personal contributions, and they existed when I put them in. I have not clicked on all of them in the last 2 weeks, but I have no reason to believe they disappeared. Note I put in another citation above. I'm exasperated at this point. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thanks for the tweaks. Great job!

Once I get the time, I would like to put in some more 'stuff' from the Theodore St. Antoine article. I have an original and complete copy of the article (which he sent me), which I think would more or less 'complete' our article. The labor stuff is an overriding theme in Murphy's career, and I think it would nicely unify the mayor/governor/supreme court elements of Murphy's If you are interested in having me send you a copy, please let me know. I don't think I've got your e-mail address. Once we can add that, I think we are in safe water to at least get this rated as a "Good Article." If you take a look at John Marshall, John Marshall Harlan II, Edward White, and Hugo Black, you'll get some idea of the 'scale' of good article status. While I personally think its better than that, I don't want to get my hopes up too high. Ordinarily, I think, some of these administrators don't like to 'skip a step' and are working from a playbook that I'm not privy to. Thanks again for the help. Between you, Barek, Asher 196 and HBEdit, I think we've done something that was worthwhile. Happy Easter to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

I noticed that you removed the WWI and WWII portals. I thought they were important, as there can't really be that many people who served in both. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

It has been difficult to get the time over the last couple of days to edit much but that is just because the holiday came up. You can certainly email me the article..you should be able to click on 'email user' possibly under a user's section while visiting my talk page (I can't remember exactly where because I'm using custom collapsible menus that are very different than the standard Wikipedia layout). If you can't find it, I will email you.

That is a hefty article; I can see why you would be tired after working on it.

The war portals I removed because I didn't see them as being "on-focus" since he has little to do with that aspect of history and the focus is elsewhere. Little is said of his WWI experience and he appears to have been stateside and a non-combatant (reservist?) during WWII. I know that he wouldn't qualify as a veteran of a foreign war based on his WWII experience (but probably would for WWI).veteran requirements....but those are edits in passing that wouldn't matter to me if reinstated if you feel they should be there.

Berean, I'm having minor format problems with two footnotes namely FJC Bio|1722 (footnote 1 and footnote 27) I've never used this link before in this form, so I don't know why it puts in the * 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:49, 12 April 2009 (UTC) Stan

I took care of it. Switching {{FJC Bio|1722}} to {{FJC Bio|1722|inline=1}} will drop the leading bullet.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, you posted a vandalism warning and block to the IP 72.93.90.146. After looking into recent unconstructive edits, it appears that others also warned and temporarily blocked the account.

Perhaps something can be done to prevent further problems due to this user? I have tried contacting the first person to warn and block the IP, but there has not been any response and the vandalism continues! 71.243.60.232 (talk) 16:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like somebody is a bit butthurt over hearing the truth that most people editing Wikipedia don't know what they're talking about well enough to define their own terms. Do you really have nothing better to do than call somebody a troll because you personally feel insulted by a comment that wasn't even directed at you? --72.23.147.74 (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

You presume incorrectly that I was insulted. Your opinion hardly merits that kind of concern. Rather, I removed your comment as trolling because I saw it as counterproductive and non-conducive to the editing process or environment. It certainly wasn't constructive or productive in any way. Notably, I left your second comment because it might actually lead to something productive on the article.

I don't try to judge the academic level of our contributors. We are open for business to one & all and the standards are set by community and not college degrees. Everyone is welcome.

⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If you'd like to get on the topic of misinterpretations, consider that satire is often used to attempt to bring about reform. Satire is (in many cases) sarcasm that ridicules the subject. I'll agree that it may not have been relative to the editing of the article, but it was relative to the discussion under that particular heading and could easily be applied to the majority of Wikipedia. I'm sick of over-zealous users trying to over-moderate things as it makes the entire site look like a bunch of idiots hiding behind a few conceited asses. By all means feel free to prove me wrong, but I believe that telling people that they need to understand what they're writing about before trying to explain it to others is a vast improvement to anything that's objective, such as an encyclopedia (which Wikipedia claims to be.) And I would think that understanding of what they're writing should need to include the ability to explain it without any jargon in order to allow a user with no prior knowledge of the subject to learn from the article. Both of my comments were pretty much the same concept but with different levels of detail and with tone relating to the comment to which I responded. --72.23.147.74 (talk) 01:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article satire:

"Although satire is usually meant to be funny, the purpose of satire is not primarily humour in itself so much as an attack on something of which the author strongly disapproves, using the weapon of wit."

...so where was the wit (or humor) in your comment that would allow it to qualify as satire?

Are you sure you know what the term means? Maybe you should keep an online dictionary open in another tab.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 10:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I am dearly sorry for that, but my "friend" here was deleting it through a complex way, and was eventually going to delete it ALL. I came in time to stop him, and was attempting to copy it all back in, but he hadnt copied any of it :( i shall make shure this incident does not happen again, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.190.28.196 (talk) 15:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Berean Hunter, Good morning.

So you have relatives in Rome, Ga also, it is a small world. As far as I can recall, there is no mention of relatives from NC. My family history dates back to Atlanta for many many generations.

The Mini-14 and DPMS SASS in my photograph are my own. The DPMS SASS came as is, with the exception of the Leupold Mk IV 6.5-20x50mm scope which I put on it. It is a fine piece of machinery. The Mini-14 Ranch I bought stock from a Wal-Mart back when I was a broke college student and couldn't afford nice toys. It is an okay rifle but as you have heard, and I have seen, it is not the most accurate. I learned this the hard way while trying to zero the 3-9x40 scope that sits on top of it. I fired several boxes from a bench rest at a paper target 100 yards away, made many adjustments, and couldn't hit the same side of the paper twice, making it almost impossible to walk it onto bullseye. That being said, I like the rifle none the less. I trust it at 100 meters. I've actually hunted white tail deer with it and dropped several large bucks with one round (match grade ballistic silver tip ammo). At close quarters I think the rifle would do fine.

I named the JPG "Sniper package", but in all honestly I wouldn't send a sniper team into action with that rifle. It would do fine for the counter sniper role, until you had to take the far shot.Joshuashearn (talk) 12:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

There were some dead links in the Old Mackinac Point Light section. Thanks for pointing to the problem.Bigturtle (talk) 17:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome...glad you found it because I was chasing after what I thought were syntax issues.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:54, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I never heard of these until today. This describes some of the weather in the southeastern U.S. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:34, 6 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

PLEASE stop putting spaces in caliber designations. "9mm" and "10mm" are not actual measurements. They are caliber and/or cartridge designations. 9mm is not really 9 mm in measurement but represents a designation for a class of calibers in the range of 9mm in bullet diameter. They are therefore not covered under WP:UNITS conventions. --Nukes4Tots (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Will cease immediately...sorry.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I did manage to keep it from converting the Beretta 92F into Celsius readings..:)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Berean, Happy Cinco de Mayo and a belated happy May Day. The many citations in this need some work. Please take a look. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

the current footnote 19, Societe Egyptiennes, etc., needs some weird diacrytical marks, and I don't know how to do those in Wikipedia. That citation appears in the Auckland book originally. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thanks Berean. Stryker Detroit Free Press is a dead link, and probably should be marked as such. Even though I have a subscription to the paper, I have been unable tot find it in their archive. I do have the article, but can't put in a link that apparently no longer exists. too bad, because it was a nice piece of writing. Oh well! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:21, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Done. Could you check and compare the trailer that I just dropped in the bottom against the two at IMDB? I can't see those at IMDB because of the embedded video format and don't know if they are the same or not? I've never seen this movie btw..but will very soon.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

It is hot (for the time) -- they tried to ban it in Chicago (which maybe should be in the article). And it is the best trial movie I've ever seen, and I have some serious credentials to make a comparison. So be sure to see it. The script is right on, and captures the flavor of the yooper. The performances are awesome; so is the cinematography and score. It is really worth the time (and it is quite a bit of time, long move for the era). I'll check out the links, and get back to you tomorrow. I'm done for the night. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

I'm about finished for the night myself..I'll revisit the article another time. Have a good night...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

In the related Trial movies article, the reflist|2 isn't working to create two columns. Any fixes there Berean? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Is that still the case from your viewing? It currently appears in two columns to me...you might try making it 3 column to see if it moves for you. I tried 3 columns but didn't save the page and that worked for me.

Last night what popped in my head regarding very good trial movies while editing Anatomy of a Murder were both versions of 12 Angry Men (the 1997 version also very good), Breaker Morant (one of my favorites), and To Kill A Mockingbird (book & movie both). I see the Trial movies have these.

The article for From the Hip is terrible... a trial comedy worth seeing.

What about The Star Chamber, and either version of Cape Fear? ..and don't forget The Ghost and Mr. Chicken ("They should have used Bon Ami"). ;)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

No problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.54.107 (talk) 23:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

The Trial movie article was mine, and with the help of Carptrash, we put it together and managed (so far) to resist having it deleted for the usual reasons. Breaker Morant is one of my favorites too, and I did put in a link to the quotation (although I didn't quote it). Of course, this isn't just an article about Breaker Morant, so I thought that was appropriate. I've done some wee editing on Cape Fear (it is a great movie about revenge -- on a lawyer yet -- and both versions are really terrifying), but it (and most of the movie articles) are kind of not up to speed. I've been thinking about working on them. Never saw the three other movies you mentioned. I just bought a book (ordered it, it won't be here for a few days) on legal films, and I think that will be a good source. This is an area that needs to be developed. As you can see from the IMDB link, there are a lot of "trial movies", although I never actually thought (for example) that African Queen] was a trial movie. Did you have any luck with the Reflist. Maybe its this new wide screen . . . I just replaced my monitor. Thanks (as always) for your patience and help. I think Anatomy of a Murder has shaped up nicely, although I would still like ot tweak the legal section some more (and will when I get the book) 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

I couldn't get the {{reflist|2}} to not function correctly..seems to work for me (I'm on a 22" widescreen). You might try rearranging the nesting differently..I'll go set this to see if it works for you. I have Anatomy of a Murder now (just need the popcorn)...may watch it tonight though it looks quite long.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a popcorn kinda movie. Not to overbill this, but I think you'll love it. I do anyway. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Does that reflist work now that I rearranged the structure in Trial movies? I also see that you got the diacritics worked out in Anatomy, I forgot to catch that last night. Someone has done a good job with the Star Chamber article..just reading it...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I think I have Trial movies reflist fixed.

Happy Cinco de Mayo. " la lucha continua no terminará fácilmente" -- Che.

How was the movie? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

I had an interruption/other events just before I was going to sit down to watch it and by the time I got finished, I decided too much time had lapsed and I would be up too late so I opted to watch it later. I'm one of those that really want to enjoy a movie unabated and without distractions. I'll see it soon though. Gives me something to look forward to...I'll be watching From the Hip as well. Talking about it gave me the hankering for wanting to see it as well.

Are the refs in other articles where {{reflist|2}} is located giving incorrect results or was it strictly limited to Trial movies? I see your fix...I used to put that in articles but I could never see the difference between 30em and |2 . One day, one of the articles with 30em as the parameter would only show one column (just like what happened to you) and I switched to using |2 . Your switch in the article today still leaves it as two column from my viewing, which is correct. I'm stumped as to why...

Happy Cinco de Mayo to you as well..(eat enchiladas and drink tequila)!
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Here I'm seeing it as three columns. I've never had this problem with {{reflist|2}} before, and every article I've put it in has displayed 2 columns. The local "Del Taco" is having a 29 cents special on tacos today. Yippee!

So From the Hip is worth renting? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

I haven't seen it in years but I remember it as being more funny than drama and not legally accurate. Let me watch it again and give a more up-to-date rating. I may see it before Anatomy since it is half the length and easier to fit into the schedule. I may see it today. Hmmm, reviews seem to rate it as mediocre. My memory may be recalling it more fondly than it deserves..I'll let you know.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Head slapping moment. Using "control" and the middle knob on the mouse key, I resized the type, and the reflist is dispalying as two with larger type, etc. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Tip - Try hitting CTRL and the + symbol simultaneously a few times to turn the font size up on any website (CTRL - to turn it down). Your browser should remember your font size preference minus 1 for specific sites. Neat!
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The new monitor (22" wide screen Viewsonic @ $200 bucks with 20,000:1 dynamic contrast, 2 ms response, SRS Wow HD, Multimedia compliant, and Energy Star rating is a definite improvement over my super old 23" 70 lb. Dell). But its different, and there is a small learning curve. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

After you've watched Anatomy, take a look at these IMDB User Reviews and Memorable quotes. Some of these thoughts maybe should be worked in to our article. I recognize that the user reviews aren't auithoritative, so we might want to paraphrase and merely supplement the article appropriately. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Stan

Your recent contribution to AOAM. Nice job!. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thank you. Slowly but surely...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't make that edit (the one about the "Confederate Gay Batallion [sic]"). Someone else did this; the moron didn't even spell "battalion" correctly. I'm not sure whether my IP address is shared, but I'll check into it. Maybe it was spoofed? -- 165.176.7.3, 2009 June 4, 17:39

You can check the IP contributions here if you are curious. We would just like the vandal to stop. Sadly, if he keeps using your IP number, it would still lead towards the block process to lock the IP out. Have you considered creating an account?...you couldn't be spoofed that way.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:00, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

That story was on all the major news channels and websites. I did not cite the article because I found conflicting dates on different websites. So I left that up to others with more spare time on their hands, as you seem to have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunandafalls (talk • contribs) 01:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

In reference to your addition, it turned out best that it was reverted because it was determined to be a hoax by another money-grubbing nut. Reporters will pick up anything that they think will sell copy. That is why Wikipedia is not the news. We wait for verifications and don't embrace every story that comes along.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 01:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

		The WikiJaguar Award for Excellence
		For your recent swift assistance responding to the request I left on Thingg's talk page, I award you the (first ever!) WikiJaguar Award for Excellence in talk page stalking efforts. Thanks again for fixing up my header. =) –xenotalk 15:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll send you my bill...☻
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:59, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Sir, I am a volunteer. I am not trying to "promote" anything. I want people to know what Allen did before he died.

"In 1987, Allen Collins met Bill Massey, Jr., and together they co-founded Roll For Rock in loving memory of Ronnie Van Zant. Both young men had been paralyzed in the prime of their lives, and they wanted to help other people. Roll For Rock hosts benefit concerts and wheelchair sports events to raise awareness about spinal cord injury and to provide opportunities to those facing physical challenges. Roll For Rock also participates in medical research that is seeking a cure for spinal cord injury. Allen's dream was to use music as a way to educate all people about ways to flourish in life despite a physical challenge."

How is letting the world know about Roll For Rock promoting anything? Allen did found it, he did want to raise awareness about physical challenges, and I'm sure if he was still here with us he would like to see Roll For Rock on his wikipedia page, because it was the last big thing he tried to do before he died. Why are you threatening to block me from editing? I have good intentions and I am not doing anything wrong.

The information I have quoted above is taken from the Allen Collins Band "Here, There & Back CD insert. This CD was produced by Roll for Rock with permission from Allen's father. Mr. Collins wants this information on wikipedia. Will you please not remove it. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by R4Rvolunteer (talk • contribs) 04:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

This is much better. Try talking to us instead of obstinately sticking the material back into the article...that is why you are being cautioned. Discussion is far more constructive. First, where can I find out about your status as an organization? It appears to be a for-profit entity. The proper place to have a discussion about your contributions would be the article talk page. You should be aware that there appears to be a conflict of interest because you are trying to use yourself as a source. For the time being, the most significant rule for you to learn about is our three-revert rule because you have actually exceeded this. DO USE the talk pages (here, the article) but DO NOT keep adding the material to the article until AFTER some agreement might be met. Okay?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Please stop removing my edits. I am acting in good faith and you are constantly accusing me of promoting, which I am not doing. Also, you have threatened to block me from editing! These are facts about Allen Collins. Don't facts belong in Wikipedia? Please stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by R4Rvolunteer (talk • contribs) 04:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

There is no conflict of interest, as you suggest, I live in Canada, Roll For Rock is in the USA, I have no legal ties to them, I do not get paid by them, I just volunteer to write stuff like this so that people can learn about what Allen accomplished. I am a FAN, OK? I did not mean to be "obstinate" as you so eloquently said, I am acting in good faith, I am trying to do a good thing, it is very frustrating to keep seeing the edit remove, people will benefit by learning about the big dream that Allen had before he died.

Because of the tragedies surrounding his paralysis and eventual death, Allen Collins is largely being forgotton. Some websites had him listed as "Albert Collins, Guitarist for Lynyrd Skynyrd" and I have read a lot of stuff that is sensationalized and/or untrue. Nobody seems to know much about Roll For Rock, and I would like to change that. May I ask you why you are stopping me from doing this? Bill Massey Jr. runs Roll For Rock, in association with LAAC publishing, which is owned and operated by Allen's father who is now 91 years old. They are not "making a profit," any money that is generated by Roll For Rock goes towards helping paraplegics and individuals faced with other types of physical challenges. PLEASE STOP THREATENING ME AND REMOVING MY EDITS. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by R4Rvolunteer (talk • contribs) 04:53, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Trying to read your talk page gives me a headache so I'll respond at my talk. I don't know if you have any further interest beyond leaving the note. Some guy (talk) 04:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

That's fair. I'll follow...What gives you a headache here?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 05:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Light blue on white is hard to read. Also, after everything else on Wikipedia always being justified left, my brain has trouble wrapping around justify center. Anyway, I responded on my talk page, as I said I'd like to continue the discussion there. Some guy (talk) 05:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, another note here cuz I dunno if you're still checking my talk page, but I was wondering what is your advice on actually getting some outside attention on the ANI - nobody has participated in the discussion that wasn't already involved except the random thing from Tan and I do not think there is any question that Kaolorka (I still can't remember how to spell his name) has crossed the line with his personal attacks and should be reprimanded or whatever. Beyond that I obviously am willing to participate in the consensus discussion. Some guy (talk) 16:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

My advice would be to not get more attention at ANI and to shrug off perceived attacks for now. Stoically separate the actual editing topics from what offends you. If they have attacked or offended, it will speak leaps & bounds about your character to ignore it and press forward. Truth is, the infighting keeps other editors from ever entering into what could be a constructive discussion. When they see chip shots taken at each other...well, would you want to enter into that kind of discussion? You won't help your actual case if you keep mixing the topics. One thing is getting in the way of the other. Keep it simple and remember that you are speaking to a larger audience and forget about pointing fingers. If misbehavior is at hand, someone may address it later...but the current venue at WT:MILHIST is not the place to discuss behavioral issues; it clouds the water. Remain responsive to anyone who asks questions or needs explanations but you should keep yourself from possibly being baited.

Another suggestion: Remember why you are here and find other articles outside the scope of what is happening and try to enjoy editing those today. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Btw, is the green font any better?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I do not wish to continue personal battles at MILHIST and I am struggling not to be drawn into Nukes4Tots behavior but I think I've done a good job so far. I think the ANI is still appropriate if considered separately because Koalora has been incredibly uncivil and seems to have a clear desire to bully or frighten new editors into giving up on editing altogether, and he has been even worse than Nukes about reversion and refusal to discuss. You know what a serious problem these behaviors are on Wikipedia. Currently he feels he has done no wrong and committed no personal attacks and at the very least someone needs to help him see the situation from a different perspective. Oh, and the green font is much better, thanks. I don't feel like working on anything else really, this has been driving me crazy; I really need to get some sleep but every time I lie down I start hiccuping like crazy and I end up back at my computer trying to kill time. Some guy (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

<== When I can't sleep, I get one of my old college books (like Thermodynamics) and start reading. Who says you can't still get value out of them. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:42, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems as though you have absolutely nothing better to do than to be a hero on wikipedia and look at all of my edits and "correct" them as if you have a thing for me. Lucky for you, I did the reporting first. Your warnings are void. If you would like to be a little prick, please play in the sandbox with all of the other lonely nerds hiding in the basement.

GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.153.57.239 (talk • contribs)

Hmmm! You seem slightly articulate. Why are you trying to remove the facts concerning people who are Jewish? What is the problem? Try explaining instead of just reverting, if it makes sense then people might not revert you.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I am trying to help improve these pages by making sure that the links are aligned correctly and nothing more, but reversing my editing changes has them now not aligned correctly-theKrazyKerzman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thekrazykerzman (talk • contribs) 03:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. No, they are correct now. You are overlinking with your edits today (1, 2, 3, 4, 5), however this is precisely the opposite type of edit from your previous edits on June 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Why the sudden flip-flop in your edits?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Berean Hunter. Unfortunately I do not know of anyone else who is extracting images from those tomes (although I have extracted a few that are related to John Hunt Morgan (commons:Category:John Hunt Morgan). Jappalang (talk) 05:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

God, we were actually having a civil discussion about changing the policy and it's spiraled out of control into disaster-territory again. User:Commander Zulu has gone off on a tirade against me; you noticed his repeated attacks against me at the MILHIST discussion and his insistence that my opinion was invalid. He continues to misrepresent my words in a manner that seems like baiting to me, presenting twisted versions of my suggestions in All Caps As If They Were Mandates. He has been going to Nukes and Koalorka's talk pages to rally up support against me, and now they're all talking about what a terrible person I am, how I am clearly a vandal with only bad faith, and Zulu got both of them complaining they are being prevented from involvement in the discussion they had already chosen not to take part in. I hope you recognize how hypocritical this behavior is considering how much they criticized me for attempting to get feedback through multiple venues and accused me of things such as "forum shopping".

To make matters significantly worse, User:Georgewilliamherbert, an administrator, is nagging me on my talk page claiming there is a clear consensus against me and a large number of editors looking down on me and generally disagreeing with my ideas and behavior. He has repeatedly ignored and then denied my requests for him to back up these claims. He is also going around, to the ANI, and to Nukes and Koaolorka's talk page, accusing me of baiting, and rallying more support against me. His words will only serve to incite Koalorka, Zulu, and Nukes further, making them even more convinced they are right and giving them new ideas about ways to criticize me.

All of these things are contributing to making me extremely angry, whether or not this is the intention, and when I am extremely angry it impairs my ability to act civilly. I am continuing to try to act civilly at this point but as you might imagine I don't like being extremely angry. I just want to have the damned structure proposal over with and get back to adding subsections to the firearms articles. I don't want to fight anyone.

I don't know what to do. Please help. I am going to post this message identically at another user's talk page since he has also tried to help me act calmly and resolve conflict. Some guy (talk) 01:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, if you have gotten that angry, I suggest that you do something else this evening so that you can disengage for now and come back to look at all of this in a different light. That never hurts. When you come back your head may be clearer and you will be less angry.

I haven't actually found (or interpreted) any tirade on Commander Zulu's part but I may have missed it (diff?). I think that some of the various people involved may be a little raw at this point and perhaps are overly sensitive to what each other are saying. It gets chippy like that from intensity...my suggestion (fwiw) is to slow it down quite a bit. The discussion on MILHIST is likely to remain open for another week and isn't going anywhere.

...and if you find that you are a wiki-addict :) ...then go ahead and edit weapon articles or any other you want so that you will have something that you feel was productive this evening. If you spend your time entirely with this subject today, you probably won't feel too good about it later. Oh, if I were you, I would extend a good professional welcome to GeorgeWH in the spirit of collegiality (you make the effort to re-approach him). Even if you think he is wrong, accept that this is how he feels and try to work with that in the same way that you would at your workplace. If he is doing something wrong, someone else will likely speak up sooner or later. It took a while for that to occur with other problems recently, yes? Patience and some introspection may be called for here. Developing a thicker skin and allowing many things to roll off will go far in helping you regardless of being right or wrong. (Okay, @#$%! There used to be an essay titled "Can't be arsed" which would help here but they have deleted it)

⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I did take a break, and I will take one again shortly - my laptop's power supply broke so I have until the battery dies. I guess I can use my desktop but it's seven years old so I'm not happy about the idea. Anyway, regarding Zulu, [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] . I don't know, that strikes me as a tirade but then again I am the target so perhaps I view it differently. I feel that George is harasing and threatening me (inclding saying he might block me indefinitely) and considering that he is a member of Wikiproject Firearms this strikes me as a retaliatory behavior, but I have asked Toddst1 for his opinion and am awaiting that. Anyway, you don't have to go and do anything for me, I'm feeling better now and anyway my battery is getting close to finished so I can take that break. I appreciate your extremely kind behavior and civility as well as your advice; I think it is a shining example of what Wikipedians should strive to be. Some guy (talk) 06:14, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you kindly.

Hopefully you are feeling better for having had the break and will have had the opportunity to let the skin get a little thicker so you won't necessarily have to get angry. You might try doing some editing in article space instead of talk space since there may be more freedom this week. Straightforward editing of the articles is probably a bit more therapeutic than the conversations.

Oh, and your old desktop machine might be a good candidate for Ubuntu. Systems that are otherwise deemed 'too old' for newer versions of Windows will often run great. You may want to look into it instead of writing your "old" machine off.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 01:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. I am feeling less angry. Yes, I'd much rather edit and contribute than argue about anything. Do you mean editing the firearms articles? I am unclear as to whether I can go ahead and start adding subsections at this point. I would like to but I am concerned I will be accused of subverting the discussion, be reverted, and then broadly discredited. Other than that I can't really think of anything to work on right now. I've got plenty of real life stuff to work on so I'll probably get to some of that. Some guy (talk) 01:45, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Good point. I was actually thinking of other aspects of editing the articles (spellcheck, add refs, hunt down video, check categories, etc.) but if you have real life pressing that will probably be more productive for you personally.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 01:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The family ask that the page be removed since this is a private residence or at the very least removed until it can be corrected seeing as there are extreme inaccuracies through out this article Mhairston (talk) 17:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Replied here:Wikipedia:Help_desk#removing_a_completely_inaccurate_page_until_corrected
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for reverting the vandalism to my userpage. Much appreciated.--The Legendary Sky Attacker 22:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. You know, I've been thinking lately about changing my signature sometime. Maybe, I'l do it today. And, for what its worth, I only just found out what FWIW means.The Legendary Sky Attacker UTC

I have started an ANI discussion on Some guy: WP:ANI#Some guy You may want to comment there, especially as you're one of the editors he's taking constructive criticism from right now. Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I was just reading that...the ANI notwithstanding, I'm real happy that someone leaves their diffs in secure form (i.e. https). :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 05:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

My apologies for the unnecessary warning. It must have been one of my siblings attempting humour. Saforcer (talk) 20:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

You reverted and gave him a final warning re Barek. I went to WP:AIV and got a block. Happy hunting. Good job! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

He definitely deserved it. I probably should have taken the route you did. Good work. Sound effects for the kill. ;)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

It didn't see it coming, and it didn't know the instrument of its destruction. Great sound effect. Death from above. ("Mors Ab Alto") 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

fyi, my report to WP:AIV said "Vandalizing user pages. Blatant and hot." It was, and it got the appropriate response. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thanks for removing the vandalism on my user page and the same on my talk page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding your comments here ("Never once have I seen any member of WP:GUNS or WP:MILHIST offer what I'd call a sincere welcome or true help to Some guy"), I regret that you've come to see us in such a poor light.

Your earlier remarks had led me to think that our conduct was up to your expectations, and I'm not really sure what's changed since that time to cause you to lose faith in the project; might you be willing to give me some pointers on how we could have done better? Kirill ^[talk] [pf] 02:16, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to stand up on Kirill's behalf and say that I admire his attempts to stop personal conflict and keep discussion on topic. This edit [6] in particular I greatly appreciate. Some guy (talk) 02:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

You've done nothing wrong, Kirill (I consider you a leader of, rather than a standard member of the group...I was speaking of the average joes). I haven't lost faith in the project either (I'm writing an article in a text editor as we speak). MILHIST is by and large a professional act and I have observed very professional members such as yourself, Roger, and numerous others who do good work, make valued decisions and who I have come to trust even if they didn't know me. This certainly applies to you.

The disappointment rests with a few who have made it seemingly difficult to approach the project by their actions and words and presumed an air of authority that is unbecoming. The frustration is that none of those involved would consider a change of tone to be a bit more welcoming to others, or even to hint at an apology. They seem decidedly recalcitrant. This makes it hard to embrace them.

I lurk around for a while watching different groups and studying their materials. I had started recently commenting in WP:GUNS and have been taking photos and working on improving those now that I got a few pointers. I have been pulling gun books off the shelf, confirming refs and considering articles to write or add to, etc...but on the very day that most of this erupted, I was about to sign on at WP:GUNS, had considered the userboxes and was perusing the inactive members list. I flip over into another tab and check my watchlist and start seeing guys that I would have affiliated myself with start to bully someone else. It stopped me long enough to begin taking more notice. Despite what CZ said, I didn't materialize from nowhere and follow Some guy onto their project talk pages...I was already at WP:Firearms, but that seemed quickly forgotten when I spoke up. Seems I was given the bayonet...which makes me wonder how many people they may have scared off before with the less-than-friendly atmosphere. I don't think they realize that this attitude is soooo incorrect and hurts their very causes. That notwithstanding, I actually have more respect for some of these guys than they think.

I've still been hoping to see constructive dialog by members. I've been watching your newest proposal...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:03, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see; I don't really draw a distinction between different members myself, but I suppose I can imagine why you would. In any case, thank you for the kind words. Kirill ^[talk] [pf] 12:54, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

{re Kirill)I think there is a pretty clear distinction between Koalorka's behavior and your behavior, or Zulu's behavior and your behavior, etc, but maybe I'm misinterpreting your meaning.

Anyway, Berean, the structure discussion is till ongoing and Kirill has suggested we move it to the next step - would you wish to participate further? Some guy (talk) 20:41, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I would be willing to participate. I've been watching...although if there has been a discussion this afternoon, I haven't seen it yet. Been busy writing. You may want to append your first paragraph above with (re to Kirill) for clarity.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:51, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Have an errant mark in NHRP infobox that I can't make go away. Can you help? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Took care of it by changing to the 'added' parameter. (Ref Template:Infobox nrhp)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:12, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Put my foot in doo doo. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Thanks again. The infobox ain't complete. But thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:31, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y For reference Template:Infobox Protected area. Wasn't as bad as you thought..:)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I had tweaked it after I sent up the first flare. It looked awful at the time. And it wasn't 'the style at the time, like wearing onions on our belt' The Simpsons. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

I'm sure you can throw a log on the fire. (talk) 23:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC) Stan Thanks for coming on board. I look forward to what you will do. The term "broader" is repeated in two sentences. There's got to be something better. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

How's that? Comprehensive.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking good. Waht do you think? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

I dont! It makes my head hurt...:)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Sort of a Massive Attack, which I really recommend, BTW. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:08, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Stam

I will have to check them out...similar to Kraftwerk?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I've always like K, but this is harder driving, more dynamic and richer. Also recommend Portishead. Try it, you'll like it. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

I do like some Portishead..not surprising since I also like the bands Garbage, Apollo 440, and some of Moby's harder driving songs. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕))

And The Tea Party. But not their last album.7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

..another one I need to check out. I'd recommend the independent labeled Seven Nations and the war drums of Albannach. Guaranteed to let your neighbors know you're on the warpath. Speaking of which...(neighbors ears now bleeding)...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your recommendations. I was not sure why you dropped Category:History museums in Canada. Not historical enough? Chieftains Wolfstone, I think -- or do I have it confused with Wolf's tone One of those is a Celtic rock band. Very cool. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

The actual museum appears to be in North Dakota...notice the green arrow in this sat photo.

Chieftains are good, I have a double cd of the Chieftains Live - An Irish Evening...but the others named are more "punchy" & lively. Wolfstone is in the right genre. Listening to Lords of Acid at the moment (scaring the neighbors...and the cats).
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Morphine (band) was awesome. Sad when Mark Sandman checked out. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Longitude & Latitude don't display in the infobox. I assume these are decimal equivalents, but they are different than the figures on the International Peace Garden map that you linked. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

You mean the coordinates for the peace garden are different than the museum? Look at the pdf map at the bottom of this page (making note that it uses the insane orientation of West instead of North..i.e. rotate 90 degrees counterclockwise to make right again). I used that map and satellite photos to place those coordinates on the roof of the museum. The museum is #23 on the map. The coords for the garden were general to the overall garden. As for the display, I assume that they do not show by design from whoever designed the template. You can see the coords in the upper bar, right?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Just checked the infobox at the Louvre and the coords do not display in the box but rather parse to the upper bar.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I missed the coordinates in the upper right hand corner. So it works! Thanks for the education. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Yes sir, noted. You'll notice, though, that since my childish days of '06 and before, I've at least gotten more subtle in my insults. But no, really. I'll try to watch it. Thank you for not bringing out the Banhammer on me. Oh, fyi, your lime-green text against the white backgrounds on this site is a complete massacre to the eyes. Have a nice day.--In All Honor (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Good to hear that you will be tempering and ceasing(?) to make insults.

I've changed my font color again (to maroon)...let's see how this one works for folks. Better anyone? Btw, it was dark green not lime green.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:52, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello, and yes, you are correct: that user does not understand that a 'plantation' doesn't necessarily mean that it was built by slaves, which some were. Thanks for correcting that. I intend to do some work on this piece in the near future, which needs some corrections and fleshing out. Regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 02:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

It is a beautiful place...I should have taken a camera the last time that I went. It isn't as open to the public anymore, I believe. During their tenure, N.C. State neglected the upkeep horribly for both the house and the grounds....good reason not to donate to the state.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Completely agree with you. I grew up going there in the 1960s when it still looked pretty magnificent. I'm sad to hear that it looks like that these days, but maybe under private ownership again it will look better? Nevertheless, it would be great to have a photo. I wrote to the local Chamber of Commerce, which had some photos on Flickr of stonemasons doing the original work on the house, but after a few emails, I didn't hear back from them. Glad you're enjoying the place. Out of curiosity, do you live close by? Best, MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:59, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

About an hour away...I live relatively close to Reynolda House. I haven't heard anything in a while but the newer owners have declared that they intend to make Chinqua-Penn a bed & breakfast. Very sadly, much of the original contents were sold at auction just before the new owners got it...including the library. Another rough spot was that the family's long-standing gardener..well, unfortunately his grandson busted the large picture window and stole a variety of things that were never recovered.

The state allowed the grounds to be overtaken by poison ivy and non-native invasives; a real shock considering that I, like you, remember how beautiful they were when I was younger. The tiles on the oriental pool had broken up and rather than repair, they just closed it off and let it go. I hope the owners restore it. That is the hopeful thing going for it, someone who will do a better job in upkeep.

I will try to keep an eye out for house photos...I'm working on other old photos as we speak, getting them ready for Commons.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thank you for letting me know. I had no idea that the contents had been sold at auction. That is pretty shocking, actually, given the trouble that Jeff and Betsy Penn went to in assembling them. But it is, I suppose, the way of the world. Ah well. I hope that things get better from here, although it's hard to imagine that place as a bed-and-breakfast. In any case, I will look forward to seeing photos of it in better days. Thanks and take care. MarmadukePercy (talk) 04:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC) Incidentally, this is the photo I was referencing of the stone masons. [7] MarmadukePercy (talk) 04:34, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...a few bits of reading for you. Some of the belongings went to Louisiana but maybe Phelps kept the lionshare...newer pictures are encouraging.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for these links, especially The Washington Post story, which I'd never seen. Jeff Penn, as the story gets it right, had a wonderful sense of humor and enjoyed poking fun at himself. Betsy was a bit more... uhmm... strait-laced. I hope it all goes well. It's a special place, and I hope that the new venture puts it back on its feet. Best regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 04:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

He made a joke about Ruth Bader Ginsburg using one. I think that's helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxdun (talk • contribs) 03:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. We don't usually add jokes or other pop culture to weapons articles. See WP:GUNS#Pop culture to see the guidelines. Cheers
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello Berean Hunter, the url link on the Whitman page allows reading of certain chapters. However, the chapter on Whitman is one that is not available that I can read. Is there another url that will allow it? I notice Douglas and Lavergne both use an Op-Ed that echoes the same theme - "Why Did He Do?" and then go on to commit errors of fact and evidence in their writings. More Lavergne than Douglas, but errors non the less. Thanks in advance if you can provide the libk to Douglas and Whitman.--Victor9876 (talk) 05:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I apologise for adding that image, I looked for another stored on wiki of the actual player but couldn't find one. The one currently showing breaks copyright and needs to be removed. It is not the uploaders work. COuld you suggest how a new picture could be put in place that does hold copy right. thankyou

62.73.136.101 (talk) 00:22, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Why do you think that the image violates copyright?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:00, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

It is a screen capture from BBC match of the day. I've seen it used on the BBC website. If the user posting it works for the BBC and had permission then I apologise, but I doubt that very much. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.73.136.101 (talk) 02:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry but it seems that you are mistaken. The user who took that photo has responded below with details regarding the shot...so we are okay, no need to change the photo. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:09, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Very nice design! Lara 04:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I took the photo with a 6.3mp Fujifilm Finepix A610 when I went to see Middlesbrough play Chelsea at the Riverside on 18 October 2008. I have to say, I can't imagine the BBC having used it, because it's not really the greatest quality image I've ever seen! (Especially seeing as there are a fair few professional photographers at football matches carrying massive lensed cameras who sell their photos to the BBC, Sky etc on for a living.) Call me cynical, but I think this appears to be the user who raised this query being bitter about his image being deleted. I could e-mail or whatever you the original photo if needed. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 08:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

No, that won't be necessary...that is the basic answer that I thought I would get. I had to ask to countercheck the other user's assertions. Thank you for answering so quickly,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:06, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you again for your support of the Great Wikipedia Dramaout. Preliminary statistics indicate that 129 new articles were created, 203 other articles were improved, and 183 images were uploaded. Additionally, 41 articles were nominated for DYK, of which at least 2 have already been promoted. There are currently also 8 articles up for GA status and 3 up for FA/FL status. Though the campaign is technically over, please continue to update the log page at WP:NODRAMA/L with any articles which you worked during the campaign, and also to note any that receive commendation, such as DYK, GA or FA status. You may find the following links helpful in nominating your work:

• T:TDYK for Did You Know nominations
• WP:GAC for Good Article nominations
• WP:FAC for Featured Article nominations
• WP:FLC for Featured List nominations
• WP:FPC for Featured Picture nominations

Again, thank you for making this event a success! --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 02:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

When you return . . . 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:31, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

What does it need? I'm about to sign off for the evening but will take a further look tomorrow. Eyes are too beat to do much else tonight. Have you proofread the Michigan Lighthouse template to make sure that I've got them all classed properly? I didn't get as much done as I wanted for the Dramaout but I'm still content...now for some shuteye...G'night
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Just got back. No proofing yet. AS to the template, take a look at the discussion. Welcome back. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 04:47, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Completed. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It was a link to a Page with his Grave.What`s the Problem.It is not Promotion. We are the Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau Stiftung from Wiesbaden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murnaustiftung (talk • contribs) 23:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Another editor has voiced his concern that you may have a conflict of interest and are actively engaged in promoting your interests. I would suggest that you start a discussion on the article's talk page to see what other editors think. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:19, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi

The information held about clann an drumma is legally wrong

Joe kilna founded the band - no one else

Albannach are not connected to clann an drumma and clann an drumma have no wish to be associated to them. these two bands are not related and do not wish to be.

please correct the article with the corrections made or remove the article about clann an drumma all together and we will start again.

Joe kilna was the only person responsible for sgt mackenzie, it is copy right to him, as is clann an drumma.

We do not wish any wrong information to be placed online about our group, hence the reason we have tried to correct it on several occasions. if you have any issues with this, please feel free to contact us at clannandrumma@ntlworld.com

many thanks

Clannandrumma (talk) 23:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. I agree that we wouldn't want incorrect information in the articles.

No one person founds a band...otherwise it wouldn't be a band by definition. Would you care to elaborate on the history of the band regarding Donnie MacNeill, Jamesie, Jacqui, Aya, Davey, etc? It sounds as if you are trying to disconnect former longtime & founding members from their part within the history of Clann An Drumma. The two bands are related whether the members of either like it or not.

I'm unaware that anyone else has been claiming Sgt. MacKenzie as theirs at least lyrically.. Is that in one of the Wikipedia articles? Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

This is rather random, but I've George was using secure edit diffs and you followed suit and now a few others are doing the same. I feel silly for asking this but I can't 'figure it out'. What are the benefits of using secure diffs? Thanks. Some guy (talk) 04:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I have actually been using the secure server for more than a year and didn't follow anyone's lead but instead I was very happy (concerning George) that someone else leaves their diffs in the secure form which makes life easier for those of us using it.

Do this: log out and then look closely at the login panel noticing that there is a choice below the entry box of using the secure server. Choose that and use your regular password. The favicon should be black with a white "W" once you are logged in. Now, everything you do will be secure.

You might try leaving this link: [{{SERVER}}{{SCRIPTPATH}}/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Some_guy&action=edit&section=new Leave me a message] on your talk page. The SERVER & SCRIPTPATH variables make the link universal to both servers and will work for everyone. Often, you will find message links & other action links are left for the non-secure server which essentially bounces you as not being logged in. To illustrate, go to this arbitrary user's talk page and click on the "Click here to start a new topic". If you are not on the secure server, it will work but if you log out and log back in using the secure server and go back and try the same thing, you will see that it will allow you to start a new topic but only as your IP address. If you use the link I gave you above, you will see it works correctly no matter what server someone is logged in.

Regarding benefits of using a secure server: No one can get a meaningful interception of your messages or steal any of your info, either on the WWW or on any local area network that you may be on. If they do get the encrypted message, it will take about 2.5 to 3 months constant CPU work to crack on a good system. Password aging should be used and the password changed every 60 to 90 days. (Read password). Another advantage is that your system administrator at work will only be able to see that you are connecting to WP but won't be able to detect what you are doing on WP.

Note that anyone who has your IP address and knows what to do with it, can intercept ALL of your internet traffic including email etc. and not just your WP traffic.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think I understand. I know about encryption, password strength, etc, but I didn't realize the secure and normal servers are partially disconnected. I was just wondering why someone would want to view just an edit diff over a secure connection, but if I understand correctly providing the secure diff link just keeps people using the secure server from jumping from that to the normal server when you look at the diff? I don't log into the secure server at home because I'm at home and I'm not really concerned about anyone intercepting my Wikipedia traffic, but I understand the idea behind it. Thanks! Some guy (talk) 22:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

If I mouse-over a diff left in secure form I can read it in a popup whereas a standard diff I must click on and follow to read.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lighthouses 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Will take a look shortly..⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Should there be a redirect from "Old Round Island Point Lighthouse"? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Done. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

In the list of Michigan lighthouses we are already up to 153! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

You should take a look at List of Important Bird Areas in the United Kingdom which is small & incomplete but it may serve as a roadmap for List of Important Bird Areas in Michigan. I have already created Category:Important Bird Areas of Michigan and added it as a 'See also' in the Template:Protected Areas of Michigan. In the Category, you can see those that I could identify as recognized in their status and already added the cat to their respective articles but I may be missing some in there.

Take a look at Harsens Island and notice the template at the bottom. The redlink in that would be the yet-to-be-created List and the Category results show just below that. This might could be used in the case that an article isn't in the Protected Areas template.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Will do This looks really good! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Have now created List of Important Bird Areas in Michigan.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It would be good to put a mention of Important Bird Areas in Michigan (and a link) in the various regional e.g. Northern Michigan Upper Peninsula, the Thumb, etc. articles, if they aren't there already. Sorry, but I've done so many f'n edits that I can't remember some of these details. I really am leaving. Best 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Yeah...sure you are. ;P

Have a good time & take a camera and post back pics of something in articles! Better yet, take a laptop.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I hae the camera and even have some really good (humbly) pictures. As for the laptop, we are so remote that it won't work there (satelite TV, but I can't get an uplink to the digital satelite cuz of the trees), so I can only work at the library. They say we might actually get cable there later in the year. But who knows? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

Berean: An encomium for you. Your putting in the IPBA in the Protected Areas of Michigan works very well. For that matter, your work on the various templates is REALLY important. Creates an agenda for the area, and pulls together a lot of useful inforamtion from disparate corners. Plus it affects a great many articles w/o having to edit each one. Thanks for your invaluable (beyond value, not without value) contribution. **** !!!! Hip-hip, hooray. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Stan

You're welcome! 8^D ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be the Lighthouse Template creator-guru so, wishing to avoid stepping on toes of Those Who Went Before I have two thoughts:

1) I'm not sure I like having the picture there. I just added Bishop and Clerks Light, which is red and white. I wonder how many readers will think the photo is of B&C?

2) More general and more important. There are at least three lists of Lighthouses in Massachusetts:

1. Template:Lighthouses of Massachusetts [35 entries]
2. Category: Lighthouses in Massachusetts [46]
3. List of lighthouses in the United States -- Massachusetts section [66]

The first is a subset of the second and the second of the third, except that the first lists Lighthouse Inn twice (once under that name and once under Bass River Light, which redirects to it).

While I think the third list is a little over the top, shouldn't the first two match? (I'll do that unless you object). Should Lighthouse Inn get two entries in the template? There are many other lighthouses that have two or three names, Highland and Cape Cod being the most prominent.Jameslwoodward (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for being so polite. I'm not hard & fast about having the image there as it is an aesthetic detail rather than functional. I'm ambivalent to it but you may also want to raise that issue on the template talk page to check with other editors to see if they are on board with you. I've just changed it to have a caption to see what people may think of that.

I actually think that the blueprint for the template should be List of lighthouses in the United States. What part is over the top? The category doesn't contain redlinks and the template is on the low side because many editors don't know how to edit the template and it hasn't been kept up-to-date fully. The articles should be added to the template and then the template added to the articles that doesn't have them. You're not stepping on my toes and feel free to edit on the template. If you need help with adding the entries or anything else, feel welcome to ask. Oh, the alias names and whether they should be in there or not is something that I would defer to those with closer regional ties. I'm not in-the-know on the name relevance issue. Hope that helps,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for a quick response. The caption solves the photo question. I withdraw the OTT comment after looking at the USCG site for all of the redlinks on List of lighthouses in the United States (although you must admit that the Fairhaven Bridge Light -- a range light displayed on the bridge for the two years 1889-91 may be a little OTT). Am I correct in assuming that the template should not contain redlinks? Or is that a good way to publicize significant lights that need articles? And am I missing something -- you say "the category doesn't contain redlinks" -- but if I understand the process, a category can't contain redlinks as its entries are generated from articles containing its tag???Jameslwoodward (talk) 22:24, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Sorry, I was explaining why the numbers varied between the list & category for precisely those reasons. You can place redlinks in the template and that would be a good idea. When I created the template, I did so using the category listings only and did not use the list.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, having an odd problem with another editor at the M1 carbine page, and I was hoping you could help me out. Another editor replaced all references to the M1 Garand and replaced them with M1 rifle. In itself, that's not a big deal, they are different ways to refer to the same weapon, but M1 Garand is the current popular usage (and the title of the article!) so I stuck the word Garand back into the M1 carbine article once [8], but he removed it again. It's easiest to just look at the recent edit comments [9] and User_talk:FlieGerFaUstMe262#M1_Garand. The problem I'm having is I don't understand his reasoning and his edit comments and responses to me seem like borderline nonsense. Help? EDIT: Well we seem to be having a rational discussion about it now. Some guy (talk) 23:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

He seems to be meeting you halfway with this edit which seems to fulfill the ambiguity issue. Does that satisfy?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Sehr gut! 8^D ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Needs this Coast Guard picture. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Done. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I just wanted to show our Maine contributors what a lighthouse article should look like. Thanks. Live free or die. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Dammit. That's New Hampshire. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)Stan

Thanks for the back up. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:34, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

You're welcome...I'm about to work the refs over for consolidation.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:36, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Berean, Thanks for linking the Putnam book. I had just been thinking it ought to be out there. Do you know somebody who has a bot that could do that in a whole bunch of lighthouse articles? Doing this manually would be hard. They are in a whole lot of articles that I've put this reference into, Michigan, Maine, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio, Minnesota, and maybe some tohers. It would be a great addition. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

One problem is that the restricted previews sometimes do not contain the pages with the actual info you need. For Tenants Harbor Light, I didn't link all books available because they aren't included in the preview. :(

I don't know of a particular bot but I will make a point to search for one because that would indeed be handy. Let me do some looking...but the dinnerbell just went off so I may be done for the evening. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

We don't need the search term to be for the particular lighthouse. Just getting access to the book. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 01:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

We're over 10k bytes. Woo-hoo! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

We got an NHRP "B" and that was without the embedded NHRP infobox (See Tenants Harbor Light). 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Excellent. I hope to finish part of a big project that I'm working on today so that I can get more time to edit. Still trying to get coffee in me...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This should be in every lighthouse article in the U.S. Putnam, George R., Lighthouses and Lightships of the United States, (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co., 1933). 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Hmm. You know, instead of putting that into every article, there are a couple of different things that can be considered (as an either/or).

• Idea 1: Create List of Lighthouse resources which would include all generic sources and then this list could be linked in a 'See also' section...making an easy way to include it. (you may consider one list for all U.S. lighthouses and a separate list for Michigan lights)

• Idea 2: Optionally, the list above can be transcluded so that it shows visibly (but probably not if it is too long...someone would probably bark about that).

• Idea 3: We create a template of similar name...

• Idea 4: A hybrid of the above

Mockup: (using the DAB Semi-automatic randomly for its shortness as the transclusion source instead of our list)

⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:05, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I certainly like the idea of having a central resource; it doesn't make a lot of sense to put the whole list in every article. In thinking about this, let's remember that many of these resources are regional -- I added the list that 7&6=thirteen (talk) used in Maine to several Massachusetts lights, but had to edit it...

Who's going to write a bio of George Putnam? He looks like a good subject. Jameslwoodward (talk) 16:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It seems that one list for the U.S. generically and then separate regional or state lists could be derived. Which other sources would be U.S.-generic? If I can get several then I can improve on the mockup and demonstrate different ways of presenting the info. I know where to grab info for a Michigan regional list. I'll start sandboxing this...but passing on the Putnam article in light of my to-do list at the Commons and upcoming image work (six more volumes of Civil War images to go). I've got to work with some of the lighthouse pics over there, too. Be bold and start George R. Putnam if so inclined. You have done very well so far with your work.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Forgive me if I don't correctly understand the jargon -- I just read the Transclusion page.... Aren't #2 and #3 almost the same thing -- transclusion is accomplished most easily by a template. And why is length a particular issue? Surely it's better to transclude a page than to have the same list in each of several hundred articles -- the template has to appear only once on the server. Jameslwoodward (talk) 17:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The difference between idea 2 & 3 is that Idea 2 transcludes Idea 1 whereas Idea 3 uses no indirect transclusion but the data is encapsulated directly in template space & language such as Template:Lighthouses of Michigan. Groupings might include audio, video, book, document, etc. Idea 2 uses no template language (probably).

My concerns on length above are for a template that is set to "nocollapse" and has overly long content that is automatically visible. Long templates should probably be collapsed. Yes, I've had editors collapse templates that I've made on the basis that they were too long.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it works. It should include the general link to the Putnam book, which you didn't put in, Berean. I've already pulled together the basics for a Putnam article. I can send the research to you if you want to start it. I can't get to launching an article till the end of next week, but could forward it to you at asn attachment if you e-mail your address. Just remember, this is George R. Putnam, not George P. Putnam (the publisher, who was married to Amelia Earhart. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

The Putnam link? Sure, it's in the mockup below as the last link under the US sources. You must have missed it. Note that the US list is in User:Berean Hunter/tsandbox2 and the MI list is in User:Berean Hunter/tsandbox1.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I see why you thought that. I had left the Putnam link in the MI section and not linked it. I've removed that one and moved a couple of others.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that. The 1917 Putnam National Geographic article should be included in national resources. Fabulous article. See the link/listing at White Shoal Light. Also, if you go the "resources" pages at Great lakes Lightkeepers Association there is a trove of books and links that have relevance in Michigan (and nationally, I think). I have not looked at it this instant. Awesome website. Had great information on the Lighthouse Board, Lighthouse Service and Coast Guard. It should be used to flavor some of those articles. That website is, I would guess, put together by Terry Pepper, who is their director. Includes presently four iterations of the PDF lightlists for the Coast Guard. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC) /stan

I think you may not have gotten all of these, which do have relevance to Michigan (although some would be national):

• Bibliography on Michigan lighthouses.
• Crompton, Samuel Willard & Michael J. Rhein, The Ultimate Book of Lighthouses (2002) ISBN 1592231020; ISBN 978-1592231027.
• Hyde, Charles K., and Ann and John Mahan. The Northern Lights: Lighthouses of the Upper Great Lakes. Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 1995. ISBN 0814325548 ISBN 9780814325544.
• Jones, Ray & Bruce Roberts, American Lighthouses (Globe Pequot, September 1, 1998, 1st Ed.) ISBN 0762703245; ISBN 978-0762703241.
• Jones, Ray,The Lighthouse Encyclopedia, The Definitive Reference (Globe Pequot, January 1, 2004, 1st ed.) ISBN 0762727357; ISBN 978-0762727353.
• Noble, Dennis, Lighthouses & Keepers: U. S. Lighthouse Service and Its Legacy (Annapolis: U. S. Naval Institute Press, 1997). ISBN 1557506388; ISBN 9781557506382.
• Oleszewski, Wes, Great Lakes Lighthouses, American and Canadian: A Comprehensive Directory/Guide to Great Lakes Lighthouses, (Gwinn, Michigan: Avery Color Studios, Inc., 1998) ISBN 0-932212-98-0.
• Penrod, John, Lighthouses of Michigan, (Berrien Center, Michigan: Penrod/Hiawatha, 1998) ISBN 9780942618785 ISBN 9781893624238.
• Putnam, George R., Lighthouses and Lightships of the United States, (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co., 1933).
• Splake, T. Kilgore. Superior Land Lights. Battle Creek, MI: Angst Productions, 1984.
• United States Coast Guard, Aids to Navigation, (Washington, DC: U. S. Government Printing Office, 1945).
• United States Coast Guard, Aids to Navigation Historical Bibliography.
• Wagner, John L., Michigan Lighthouses: An Aerial Photographic Perspective, (East Lansing, Michigan: John L. Wagner, 1998) ISBN 1880311011 ISBN 9781880311011.
• Wargin, Ed, Legends of Light: A Michigan Lighthouse Portfolio (Ann Arbor Media Group, 2006). ISBN 9781587262517.
• Wright, Larry and Wright, Patricia, Great Lakes Lighthouses Encyclopedia Hardback (Erin: Boston Mills Press, 2006) ISBN 1550463993.

The Splake book is peculiar to the UP. Also, there are the three books from Jerry Roush (sp?) which should probably be added. I usually put them in with his link to the particular lighthouses, but he does have the three books (the references in the articles depended upon which book I was eferring to, depending on location. The ISBN numbers are included in the various articles we have. They were actually hard to get, and I got them directly from him, as i odn't think these books are sold much by other sources than his website. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

I think I messed up one or more of your links to the mock up or sandbox. Sorry. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

• New sandbox mockup of regional Michigan list using a transcluded US list:

Patent
Patent Model of Abraham Lincoln's invention at Smithsonian Institution
Patent number	6,469
Patent holder(s)	Abraham Lincoln
Application date	Mar 10, 1849
Patent date	May 22, 1849
Country	United States of America
Region	Illinois

Good start. My ideal would be a US resource that could stand on its own if there were no state specific resources -- or be included with a state/regional resource. So, I might invert the order -- start with a box titled "Lighthouse Resources", that might or might not have state resources included. Then, for Maine, for example, the actual template would be named "Maine Lighthouse Resources", would start with the US general template, and then have any Maine specific resources. You might extend this further, so that a template named "Michigan Lighthouse Resources" would start with the US general template, then a western great lakes template and finally any Michigan specific items.

Or -- this is brainstorming, I'm not sure it's a good idea -- should we include state resources in the existing "Lighthouses of XXXX" templates and then add the US resource template separately. The former would be nocollapse, but the latter could collapse. In most states it would only be a few items. Jameslwoodward (talk) 13:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

We are on the same page for the most part. I haven't included the template wrappers yet because I wanted both of you to see it displayed like this first. The U.S. source list is headed towards standalone template for those lights that don't have regional source lists. For regional source templates, the US template can be embedded in that such that you wouldn't add the standalone version....and yes, eventually the regional templates can be embedded into the existing navbox templates unless editors decide that they want them in 'Further reading' sections as standalone. (still-to-be-decided)

We are still in that proof-of-concept phase and once it is fleshed out to a good working idea between us then I would like to introduce it at WT:LIGHTHOUSES to invite comment from other editors. We are making a pattern that other editors may use in their various states' lighthouse articles.

I'm concerned about the general scope of inclusion. Should this be an exhaustive list versus a tighter group of high quality sources? What are the criteria?

Currently, the citation style is mixed but I believe it should be homogenized and I'm happy to do that..I just need to know the direction we want to go. Should we use citation templates or straightforward citations?

Stan, I haven't added all of the links yet because it is still a concept but it is good to see you're chomping at the bit. 8^D... For that matter, (I should have done this before), either of you are invited to work on these lists in my sandbox space. User:Berean Hunter/tsandbox1 & User:Berean Hunter/tsandbox2. Soon, I'll add two more template sandboxes for the wrappers as discussed above. Once this is panned out using Michigan as a flagship project, it should be easy to implement for other states.

James, the only difference that I see between our thinking is the order of the template placement. I would personally place them in the order of the most specific list first followed by the broader-based lists with the US list last since this info is likely to be more general to the article subject...but I'm open-minded about it. Once the idea goes to WP:Lighthouses, others may have input there also.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I just marked up both sandboxes. I don't know most of the books, but shouldn't Crompton, Jones & Roberts, and Noble go in US Resources, rather than Michigan?

Y Done.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

As far as cites go, I like to cite books as books -- author, title date publisher, but if there's a web copy then show it (as with Putnam and the USCG Light List). I note a [1] that appeared in my Light List cite -- which appears to be identical to the other cites in the template -- what is it? now it's gone?

A "1" (or whatever the parser counter is set at based on the number of cites present without a text argument). I "fixed" your link by giving it a text argument by simple relocation of the closing bracket. My question about citation styles follows those given at WP:CITEX. We are currently mixing & matching styles which is actually undesirable. We should pick one style and go with it. Makes life easier on maintaining the list. Most are currently straightforward cites with only a couple that use cite templates. The easier thing to do is to convert out the cite templates...but it might possibly look better in the end product if cite templates are used.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

And, on the length of list -- include everything versus be selective -- I favor shorter lists with, perhaps, a few words of annotation from someone who has read the book. With Crompton, Jones & Roberts, and Noble moved down, we have eleven books in the US list. Methinks that's near the upper limit. Jameslwoodward (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

My preference is also for shorter lists of the highest quality sources. Freely available is also a plus.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Michigan lighthouses. Three Roach books. The links are actually specific to particular lighthouses. He has a more general list page.

• Lighthouse Central, Photographs, History, Directions and Way points for Round Island Light, The Ultimate Guide to Upper Michigan Lighthouses by Jerry Roach (Publisher: Bugs Publishing LLC - 2007). ISBN 978-0-9747977-2-4.
• Lighthouse Central, Sturgeon Point light The Ultimate Guide to East Michigan Lighthouses by Jerry Roach (Publisher: Bugs Publishing LLC - July 2006). ISBN 0974797715; ISBN 9780974797717.
• Lighthouse Central, Photographs, History, Directions and Way points for Holland Harbor Light, The Ultimate Guide to West Michigan Lighthouses by Jerry Roach (Publisher: Bugs Publishing LLC - 2005). ISBN 0-9747977-0-7.

7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

You would want those to go into the "External links" section for the specific articles wouldn't you? Those in the template for MI Lights should be for sources that cover a substantial amount on MI lights in general...a solid group of high quality sources to make sure that the functional value as a tool isn't diluted. We are essentially building a roving 'Further reading' section for general deployment through articles. This goes back to my concerns for inclusion criteria or the need for some. We wouldn't necessarily want a creeping list for honorable mentions in COI authors' driveby edits. I'm not certain of what that criteria exactly is. I know that when I research something, I want to find the filtered-down, streamlined meat & potatoes quickly.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I now understand you mean only the underlying three volumes and not the specific links given. Gotcha. Like Gilda used to say, "Nevermind". ;)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Added. Have I missed any?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I've changed the cite templates to standard refs just to make them of consistent type. Are we ready to bring this up at WP:Lighthouses or do we need to make more changes?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is a more generic link for the Roach books. I tried to add this, bugt your sand box didn't like me. I would also suggest that your add the Penrose book to the Michigan lights. It appears in the Michigan Lighthouse bibliography link. This is really neat! In times past, I have had to change stuff indivually in the references on every light. This could be much more user and editor friendly. Great concept. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Done. Berean

Here are some additional suggestions for the two lists.

• Penrose, Laurie and Penrose, Bill (1999) Traveler's Guide to 116 Michigan Lighthouses, *Petoskey, Michigan: Friede Publications). ISBN 0923756035 ISBN 9780923756031.Y added to MI list, BH

Dennis Noble, (1997) Lighthouses & Keepers: U. S. Lighthouse Service and Its Legacy (Annapolis: U. S. Naval Institute Press) Y link added in US list, BH

Weiss, George, (1926) The Lighthouse Service, Its History, Activities and Organization (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press) Y added to US list, BH

As a generic link, the Central Michigan University article and time line would be a good addition for Michigan. Kind of like Terry Pepper,GLLKA, U.S. Coast Guard Michigan light list, and Volume 7 of the light list. If we put in the three pages of the University of North Carolina info, we could eliminate these entirely as external links. Then of course we could link speicifc pages as references. Much cleaner. Get us past some of the bitches about external liks that we have to contend with form time to time. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC) Stan 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

I agree...it will also reduce the actual article filesize without reducing displayed content. I've added some of these links and will add the remainder shortly. Hmm, I have no idea why my sandbox gave you trouble.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I have all but the Central Michigan U. article & timeline...the link evades me at the moment.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:33, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Wagner, John L. "Beacons Shining in the Night: The Lighthouses of Michigan". Clarke Historical Library, Central Michigan University. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Oh yes, that one...already linked in the MI list under Wagner's name.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:04, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I went to your sandbox. This is the coolest thing since sliced bread. I'm genuinely impressed, and thin that htis would increase the usability, editability of the resources and the articles, while decreasing their size. Not to mention that there are THOUSANDS of lighthouse articles that would benefit from the insertions. My only other thought though, is that Terry pepper's seeing the light is directed at Western Great Lakes lights, he has a lot of materials that also pertain to lighthouses generally. did you put in the GLLKA site, I didn't notice? The other general Great Lakes sources are of course the U.N.C. site, and Boatnerd.com. The former is a national site, I think. Anyway, I'm just brainstorming here. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:10, 15 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

You do realize that the contents in the template boxes above are automagically changing to always reflect what is in the sandbox in realtime?..you can see them on this page. Yes, I've added GLLKA.

I think it is about ready to bring up at WP:Lighthouses which I might do today unless there is more reason to wait and shore it up more. Can you think of anything? I have work at the Commons I'm hoping to get done which may eclipse that for today.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 18:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Cool. useful website. A National reference that would help: Inventory of Historic Light Stations, part of the National Park Service Maritime Heritage Program. I'm going to sleep now. Had a rough night.`````Stan

Y Added NPS source. I'll forward the idea a little later. Hope you get some rest.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Awesome! These two are grand collections with the links and all. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

What about Boatnerd.com in the Michigan lighthouses? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Added. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

These would be Michigan specific links which have general application to Michigan lights:

• Interactive map on Michigan lighthouses. Detroit News Y added...
• Interactive map, list, information for lighthouses in North and West Lake Huron.
• Interactive map of lighthouses in area. N 404 link not found
• Map of Michigan Lighthouse in PDF Format. Y added...

I think that a link to Michigan Lighthouse Conservancy and Michigan Lighthouse fund would be in order.

These are not exactly the more generic links you need, but they will send you in the general direction.

• Michigan Lighthouse Conservancy, Michigan light list. Y added
• Michigan lighthouse fund. N opted for alternate with map

OR

• Michigan Lighthouse Fund, Map and links. This is probably the better and more useful one. Although the resources and bibliograph on the first are good, too. Y added

In the U.S. list we could add:

• U.S. Lighthouses.com list of lights. N this one seems to be selling books and posters and might fail WP:ELNO

We would remove them from all the articles. It would be my hope that we would still have specific references to the lighthouse articles. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

About to knock off for a while..maybe til tomorrow. Will look at this tomorrow..trying to finish something. Guess you couldn't sleep. Time for dinner..Mmmm.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: My seeing the post on WP:Lighthouses... Not a problem, thank you, it's on my watchlist, as is your talk page.

I should add, though, a newbie comment. It's not at all clear to me, after looking at both the project page and the more general linked article on projects, how one becomes a member of the project. Do I simply add my name at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Lighthouses#Participants? Or does it require invitation? If the former, I might edit the list header to say so... Jim Jameslwoodward (talk) 16:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You just add your name..that is generally true of WP projects...and yes, you can be bold and make that change. Many projects do have it written.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Having problem with the NHRP box. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Stam

Will be along shortly...⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Y Done. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 14:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the sockpuppet case. Yes, I am familiar with him, as the field of Ripperology is small enough that anyone who does much of anything in it will be well known to everyone else. We know each other, have met at a conference, have occasionally participated on each other's sites/projects, etc. His main problem here seems to be not understanding that Wikipedia isn't the place to promote oneself, and also that his claims of having proven certain claims aren't generally accepted by others in the field. I have no wish to take any action to try to get him blocked, as if he'd focus on following Wikipedia policies he would be a good contributor... though his edit history to date does seem pretty single-minded, so I'm not sure if he ever would become a more general contributor. I think I'll just limit myself to removing content he adds that doesn't meet site policies if I see it before someone else has gotten to it yet. The facts you gave in the SPI case you filed seem fairly comprehensive anyway, so whatever decision is made there wouldn't likely change if I added any comments. 15:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I would be satisfied if he choses one and only one account with which to edit and then hopefully, as you point out, that he would contribute more generally rather than his mandated cause. I wasn't sure if I knew the extent of the problem or if it went back further or deeper than I was aware. Thank you for responding,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:13, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello

I want to use your wonderful pictures on my fledgling website and you have some of the best I've seen. Can't even buy most of these kinds of images of native plants in the wild. I'm sorry, but I'm just plain ignorant about giving credit for your fantastic photos.

Do I put "Attribution ShareAlike 2.5" or "Courtsey of Berean Hunter 2008"...or what?

I'm sure I'm making this harder than it is, I just wanted to be sure I did it correctly.

Thank you for making such great shots available.

Carlybot (talk) 00:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)Carol Bowles landscapeandgardentoday.com

Thank you very much. Glad you enjoy them. Something like this should do fine:

“

Photo courtesy of Berean Hunter used under the CC-BY-SA v2.5 License.

”

The first link in the above statement links to my main gallery page at the Commons and then it is a good idea to link to the license as well. I need to go take some more photos...Joe Pye Weed is in bloom right now. If you happen to take photographs yourself, I would encourage you to join us and share your photos in the same way. If you need help getting started, I would be happy to assist you. In any event, enjoy using the photos. :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Greetings, Berean Hunter: You are hereby awarded the Tireless Contributor Barnstar and recognized as an Esteemed Keeper of the Light, in recognition of your contribution of an especially large body of work without sacrificing quality. ~~~~ Stan

Thank you very much. Coming from someone as prolific as you, this means quite a bit.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Berean: We need to add the U.S.A. and Michigan Reference templates to the Michigan lighthouses. Obviously, the citations, etc., would then have to be modified. Pick a light and add it it. If you did this alreayd, I zpologize ofr the oversight, but I've been de-wikifying for a while, and don't remember. Hope your clsases are off to a good start. Best regards, 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

I really appreciate the help, thanks. My back is on the mend and I should be able to get out to trot around field and stream before the summer is over. I will check back if I need assistance. Thanks for the offer and of course, the permissions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlybot (talk • contribs) 17:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, Koalorka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is back, and not surprisingly he is blanket reverting my edits again, though this time he isn't bothering with edit summaries. I made the mistake of trying to talk reasonably with him because I didn't want to go straight to an admin and be attacked for it. He has reverted me at three pages: [10], here [11], and lastly here [12].

For those first two he sort of redid what I was doing in his own manner, which I guess is okay except that he doesn't need to revert me before he does it. For the third page he hasn't reproduced anything along the lines of what he reverted, and one of my edits that he reverted was entirely housekeeping, where I broke up some long paragraphs and linked a few terms: [13] . EDIT: Well he went and did his own version after I restored mine. It seems to me like he's trying to lock me out of articles, reverting my edits with no summary and then telling me to "stop interfering" with the editing I don't know he's doing. He could just as easily be making small changes to my edits rather than reverting them.

I think his behavior is disruptive, but I'm not sure how to talk to him (if there's even any way to do it correctly). Do you agree? What do you suggest? Some guy (talk) 02:16, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Will look at this a little later...⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:32, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

(headache gone now) I would wait until he completes his editing (allowing plenty of time) and then look at the article and edit from that point forward (ignoring what may or may not be slights). If they are slights then don't take the bait...then they won't work towards the desired effect.

I just had an edit conflict with Koa as he happened to have saved a page quicker than I, so I will be doing the exactly the same thing and waiting for a short while before trying to edit there again.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:26, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well he doesn't leave edit summaries so I don't know what he's doing. More than an hour went by at the Vz 58 page so I didn't think he was working on it. And he's reverted housekeeping edits such as links and paragraph breaks... Do you think his behavior is disruptive? Some guy (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Not enough to start an ANI thread over but I see someone has started a different one about him now.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

All right, thanks. If he continues to revert housekeeping edits? [14] . Some guy (talk) 21:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I make 2 edits (including a straightforward 404 error - see below), you revert them, label me a 'repeat spammer' and promptly separately recreate one of the 2 edits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Jane_Austen_Book_Club_%28film%29&diff=308677619&oldid=308675396

Sheesh ... what a great incentive to get involved. If my motivations are spamming I won't speculate on what yours are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.243.69 (talk) 06:32, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

No one cares what you think! Your contribs here (specifically this one) show that you KNEW that it was classified as spam and you managed to find a subpage of mine that isn't linked to anything and attempted to remove that link from my known spammers list (from which I told you to scram!). I don't mollycoddle someone who is lying to me. Your recollection of events is severely flawed.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

No - actually what I knew is that you classified anything I was doing as spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.255.128 (talk) 03:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Needs a redirect from Port Austin Reef Light, which is its alternate name. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

Y Done. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:38, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Acroterion take a look. This gives us a 'to do' list, or at least a blueprint to think about. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Stan

I don't think it's fair to leave out Jason Becker as a patient with ALS, and only mention Stephen Hawking.

Jason Becker is an extremely gifted guitarist, or was at least, and I think it's only respectful to add him to the article.

"However, Becker's success was hampered by his then-diagnosed Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's Disease)" (his wikipedia page)

referenced here http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=1775128028743135037&q=jason+becker

Also, you don't need to be a genious to realize he has an illness, it is pretty well-known.

Just that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.71.238 (talk) 02:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Thia is what I meant. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Made some changes. Could you tweak this? I don't know about the mechanics of inserting an image in the NHRP infobox. Please. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

I think this is pretty much corrrected by James Woodward. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:43, 13 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Hey. In the future, it makes more sense to just CSD userpages that are blatant advertising. → ROUX ₪ 03:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

You're right. I should have done that (and will the next time). Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:06, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I've more or less finished several of the northern Lake Michigan, Straits of Mackinac and nother Lake Huron lighthouse articles. If you would take a look and put on your final touches and blessing, it would be appreciated. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

...on my to-do list. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I think your sig is well cool! You see lots of sigs around here, but yours is really good! Just thought I'd let you know! -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 22:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I aim to please...⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Berean, What about adding (at the bottom) FAUX LIGHTS. E.g. Interactive map, list, information for lighthouses in North and West Lake Huron, Clare Rest Area light? . It should be major ones, not just somebody's lawn ornament. I didn't do this as I considered this too radical to do without your approval. I don't want to be accused fo 'tarting up the Mona Lisa.' Hope all is going well. Best regarfds. 19:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

You don't need my approval. :)

I try to facilitate for others...you may want to run it past WP:Lighthouses to solicit comments on the practice. I'm strained for time and would love to get a chance to do some Wiki editing as it would be therapeutic to what I'm doing now. Only got time to check messages at the moment...maybe by this weekend. :/
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I have mixed feelings about it. Don't want to trivialize YOUR good work. And in any event, there is no hurry, as I wasn't about to immediately launch into a bunch of Faux Lighthouse articles. Take your time. Best wishes to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Add these to the to do list. Smile 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:56, 20 September 2009 (UTC) Stab

Take a look at the two Indiana lighthouse articles. Turns out that Rowlett has 11 past and present lighthouses. Surprisingly, Pepper has two listed for Indiana, although he also has an article on Calumet Pierhead lighithhouse in progress. Anyway, this needs a template. The list from Rowlett that I cite in Michigan City East Light would do it, I think. Hope all is going well. I'm going UPNORTH for the weekend. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

BTW, the list of lighthouses in the United States only has 6 lights in Indiana. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:31, 25 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Berean, I inserted them in the U.S. list of lighthouses. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

I'll try to get back to Wiki today...just checking in for messages at present. Unsavory work for me offline today...:/
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:51, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Rowlett, Russ, Indiana Lighthouses University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill doesn't work. But if you go to the list of lights at Rowlett, he has the page for the Indiana lights. It's a mystery to me.7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

I thought the use of the word "plunderers" instead of "salvagers" as brilliant. I didn't go UPNORTH after all. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Two more. I've been real busy on these. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

You created a cite (footnote 15) without a link. "<ref name=Special>Special Interactive."</ref> 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:00, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

Good Morning, that is a short form (as presented in WP:CITEX) for the reference in the section below it:

• "Special Interactive: Click around the lighthouses of Michigan". The Detroit News. 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-01.

When "Notes" & "References are in an article together, the notes section is meant to be the rapid summary guide to the references section.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I knew that. I Did create the article, but forgot about the format used which somebody else added, and it is one I don't use (even though this is very classy). Sorry to have been a bother. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

No bother at all.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Just added a note that needs to be a ref. This is part of a larger pattern of building 14 reef lights around Michigan, which was intended to help ships navigate through and around the shoals and hazards.^[1] 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

An article-specific ref or for the MI template?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:14, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

After my missive, I did the references. Notes might need s tweak. Found a new (to me) website, The Lighthouse People, Stannard Rock Light. They are putting up info and pictures of every light in the country, or so they say. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:01, 27 September 2009 (UTC) Stan

You need to keep a cool head if your going to continue editing on Wikipedia. Telling someone that Wikipedia isn't for them, let alone making rude remarks to their comments can get you banned from Wikipedia. Might I suggest you checking out this page for further guidance on how to not verbally abuse fellow editors on Wikipedia: WP:H8—Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)

I am calm. Pointing out a disruptive editor isn't rude...it is polite to the real editors to inform them. Your block log and contribs are revealing enough...
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 03:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

See, right there again! You use my past against me in an attempt to embarrass and offend me. You'd better start watching your tongue (or in this case, hand lol) if you don't want to get reported.--Red Wiki 22:39, 30 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)

Why do you vandelize so much? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.27.124.249 (talk) 00:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why you removed the site I added. Why don't you like the link on Hibiscus syriacus? It has significantly more information than the Wikipedia article, and the other links I think, and is pretty well referenced. Is there something wrong with it? --98.112.202.183 (talk) 15:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for contacting me. First because it has its origins from this wiki (parts are/were word-for-word). Second, because you have advertisements in the form of GoogleAds. Third, you were about to begin placing this in every article that has a match to your wiki which is spamming. Please see WP:ELNO for more details. Thank you,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, but I still don't understand basically any of this. I don't know why you think that is my site or that I have a plan to add what I guess must be thousands of links. I found three plants I was looking for and saw they had good information that I didn't find on this site, and added the 3 links. I didn't know you can't link to a google advertisement, and didn't compare the articles word for word, I just noticed the articles had a lot more information and pictures. I read your notes to me and some of the links, but didn't see the connection either. I'm a bit confused, so I guess I'll have to take your word for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.202.183 (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Look at specifically #12 under WP:ELNO. Hope that helps,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I guess that's close enough, though it does seem that it might actually be okay anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.202.183 (talk) 16:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the tweaks on the former. If you are feeling up to it, the other two could use your tweaking, too. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 01:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC) Stan

This one too. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 01:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC) Stan

Will follow-up with more...probably tomorrow. Berean is sleeeeepy.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 02:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The cited quote does not say that the word 'Shiloh' means 'place of peace', thus the parenthetical is an inappropriate summary of the citation. The citation more correctly states that Shiloh is "translated roughly as 'peace'." (emphasis added).

The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament expands on this, if you'd like external documentation. Essentially, 'Shiloh' has the more explicit sense of tranquility, rest, and prosperity; or aspects of peace, but not the full sense of being at peace, for which there is another and more well known Hebrew word: Shalom.

Not trying to be persnickety here, but the statement in question is an inappropriate gloss of a vague citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.9.246.90 (talk) 06:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

My apologies. I thought you were attempting to change the meaning of what the original source states but due to your explanation, I understand what you intended now. I will make the correction. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Cheers, :)
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:23, 5 November 2009 (UTC)