2022jun 02 Usa V Mattis, Et Al 20cr203 BMC

1
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 ---------------------------------x
20-CR-203(BMC)
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
United States Courthouse
4 Plaintiff, Brooklyn, New York
5 -against- June 2, 2022

2:45 p.m.
6 COLINFORD MATTIS and UROOJ RAHMAN,
7 Defendants.
---------------------------------x
8
TRANSCRIPT OF CRIMINAL CAUSE FOR PLEADING
9 BEFORE THE HONORABLE BRIAN M. COGAN
UNITED STATES SENIOR DISTRICT JUDGE
10
11 APPEARANCES
For the Government: UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
12 Eastern District of New York
271 Cadman Plaza East
13 Brooklyn, New York 11201
BY: IAN C. RICHARDSON, AUSA
14
For Defendant Mattis: SABRINA P. SHROFF, ESQ.
15 80 Broad Street, 19th Floor
New York, New York 10004
16
For Defendant Rahman: DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP
17 1177 Avenue of the Americas, 41st Fl.
New York, New York 10036
18 BY: PETER W. BALDWIN, ESQ.
-and-
19 BRACEWELL
1251 Avenue of the Americas, 49th Fl.
20 New York, New York 10020
BY: RITA K. MAXWELL, ESQ.
21
Court Reporter: Georgette K. Betts, RPR, FCRR, CCR
22 Phone: (718)804-2777
Fax: (718)804-2795
23 Email: Georgetteb25@gmail.com
24 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography. Transcript

produced by computer-aided transcription.
25
GEORGETTE K. BETTS, RPR, FCRR, CCR

Official Court Reporter
2
PROCEEDINGS
1 (In open court.)
2 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise.
3 THE COURT: Good afternoon. Have a seat please.
4 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Criminal cause for pleading.
5 Docket number 20-CR-203. U.S.A. versus Mattis and Rahman.
6 Counsel, please state your appearances for the
7 record, beginning with the government, then defense counsel.
8 MR. RICHARDSON: Good afternoon, your Honor. Ian
9 Richardson for the United States. I'm joined at counsel table
10 by FBI Special Agent Elaine Siladi.
11 THE COURT: Good afternoon.
12 MR. BALDWIN: Good afternoon, your Honor. Peter
13 Baldwin and Rita Maxwell on behalf of defendant Urooj Rahman.
14 Ms. Rahman is seated between us.
15 THE COURT: Good afternoon.
16 MS. SHROFF: Good afternoon, your Honor. Sabrina
17 Shroff on behalf of Colin Mattis, who is seated to my left.
18 Thank you.
19 THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon. I
20 understand -- I'm concerned that the defendants won't hear me
21 if I'm masked, so I'm going to take off my mask, unless anyone
22 in the courtroom objects, okay?
23 MR. RICHARDSON: We are okay, your Honor.
24 MS. SHROFF: Fine, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: I understand the defendants, there is a

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1 superseding information, I need to arraign them and they are
2 going to plead guilty to it, and I need to take that plea. It
3 seems before we do any of that, I have to have them withdraw
4 the prior plea, right?
5 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, do you mind if I remove
6 my mask.
7 THE COURT: Not at all.
8 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, I believe the way we've
9 approached this is, at the time of their sentencing on the
10 superseding information the government is going to move to
11 dismiss the indictment, which would vacate the pleas. Now,
12 obviously we'll need the Court's permission, the Court's leave
13 to do that, but that is, I think, how we had anticipated
14 handling that.
15 THE COURT: I'm a little concerned, can you plead
16 guilty to two instruments in the same case at the same time?
17 MR. RICHARDSON: I don't see why not, but if your
18 Honor would prefer to move forward with having them
19 withdrawing their pleas on the indictment in lieu of that,
20 then we can proceed that way.
21 THE COURT: Does defense counsel have any view on
22 it?
23 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I think the Court is
24 correct in its approach. Mr. Mattis would move to withdraw
25 his previously entered plea and have that taken care of, and

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1 then plead guilty to the superseding information.
2 THE COURT: Mr. Baldwin.
3 MR. BALDWIN: Your Honor, is it all right if I
4 remove my mask as well?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 MR. BALDWIN: Candidly, your Honor, I don't think we
7 have a distinct preference. If the Court would prefer to
8 proceed by way of withdrawal of the previous plea, it's
9 obviously fine with us and we would make that motion, and I
10 believe the government would consent to it, but we'll proceed
11 however the Court is most comfortable.
12 THE COURT: Okay, let's do it that way. I assume
13 both defense counsel are moving to withdraw the prior plea,
14 right?
15 MR. BALDWIN: Correct, your Honor.
16 MS. SHROFF: Yes, your Honor.
17 THE COURT: All right, that motion is granted.
18 Now let's get down to what we're doing today.
19 First, I've been given a superseding information and
20 I want to make sure that the defendants are arraigned on it
21 and that they understand what a superseding information is.
22 First, and I'm talking to both defendants, a
23 superseding information alleges one count.
24 Defense counsel waive my reading of it?
25 MR. BALDWIN: Yes, your Honor.

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2 THE COURT: Just to summarize it, it's a conspiracy
3 to commit arson and to make and possess an unregistered
4 destructive device. It basically says that between March 29th
5 and March 30th of 2020 that's what each of you did.
6 MR. RICHARDSON: Sorry, your Honor, May 29th and
7 May 30th.
8 THE COURT: Sorry, May 29th and May 30th of 2020.
9 It alleges a number of overt acts, that is, conduct that you
10 committed in furtherance of that crime and it also has a
11 criminal forfeiture allegation as well. All right.
12 How do the defendants plead to the superseding
13 information?
14 MR. BALDWIN: They plan to plead guilty, your Honor.
15 As of now they plead not guilty, but they plan to plead
16 guilty.
17 THE COURT: Yes, that's right. That's correct.
18 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, Mr. Mattis enters a plea of
19 not guilty.
20 THE COURT: All right. That's the arraignment.
21 Now let me make sure the defendants want to go
22 forward on that basis. Let me tell each of you -- first, let
23 me ask, each of you has received a copy of the superseding
24 information, you know what it's in?
25 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, your Honor.

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PROCEEDINGS
1 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: As you may know, there are two ways that
3 the U.S. Attorney can bring charges against someone. Now the
4 usual way is to present evidence to a grand jury. You have an
5 absolute right to make the government do that, you don't have
6 to plead to an information. If you make the government go to
7 a grand jury, there will be a minimum of 16 and I think a
8 maximum of 23 members of that jury and if they decided there
9 wasn't probable cause to indict you, then you could not be
10 indicted and the case would be dismissed. But instead, you
11 decided to go by way of an information instead of an
12 indictment. Now what that means is, that the U.S. Attorney,
13 basically sitting at his desk, writes it up and it's only
14 under his signature and there is no grand jury to review the
15 evidence. And you have the right to waive your right to go
16 before -- to have grand jury proceedings yield an indictment,
17 or if you want you can insist on that right.
18 Do we have a waiver, Ms. Rahman?
21 THE COURT: So we will proceed with the superseding
22 information.
23 Let me just make sure each of you has discussed
24 waiving your right to indictment with your attorneys?

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PROCEEDINGS
2 THE COURT: And do each of you understand that you
3 could go before a grand jury, you could have the case put
4 before a grand jury if you wanted to insist on that.
5 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, your Honor, I understand.
7 THE COURT: Have any threats or promises been made
8 to you to get you to waive your right to proceed before a
9 grand jury?
10 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: No, your Honor.
11 DEFENDANT MATTIS: No, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Do either defense counsel know of any
13 reason why indictment should not be waived?
14 MR. BALDWIN: No, your Honor.
15 MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: All right. Let me have the defendants
17 sworn, please.
18 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Would you please stand and
19 raise your right hands.
20 (The defendant, UROOJ RAHMAN, was sworn/affirmed.)
21 (The defendant, COLINFORD MATTIS, was
22 sworn/affirmed.)
23 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes.
24 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, I do.
25 THE COURT: Okay, be seated.

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PROCEEDINGS
1 Now this is going to be familiar to you, since we
2 did it before on the indictment. Bear with me because for
3 each appearance where this happens I've got to make sure you
4 still understand what you're doing and you understand all of
5 your rights that you're giving up by pleading guilty.
6 Ms. Rahman, you speak English fine, right?
7 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Mattis?
10 THE COURT: Have either of you had any difficulty in
11 communicating with your lawyer?
14 THE COURT: Have either of the lawyers had any
15 difficulty in communicating with their client?
17 MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor, I have not.
18 THE COURT: Before I accept your guilty plea I have
19 to ask you a number of questions to assure myself that it is a
20 valid plea. If you don't understand a question that I ask
21 you, just let me know and we'll pause, even if we have to take
22 a break or come back on a different day, so that you
23 understand the question and what you're pleading to.
24 Do you understand that?

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2 THE COURT: Do you understand that you have the
3 right to be represented by a lawyer not only today but at
4 every stage of these proceedings?
5 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I understand, your Honor.
7 THE COURT: And please confirm for me that
8 Mr. Baldwin, for you Ms. Rahman, and Ms. Shroff for you
9 Mr. Mattis, are in fact your lawyers?
10 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, they are.
11 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, I do confirm.
12 THE COURT: Let me start with some individual
13 questions. Please keep in mind as we do this that you just
14 took an oath and so anything you say that would be false
15 exposes you to additional charges of committing perjury. So
16 it's very important that everything you say to me be the
17 truth.
18 All right, first starting with Ms. Rahman, give me
19 your full name.
20 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: My name is Urooj Rahman.
21 THE COURT: How old are you now?
22 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: I am 33 years old.
23 THE COURT: What's the highest grade you completed
24 in school, law school, right?
25 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Law school, yes.

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PROCEEDINGS
1 THE COURT: As you sit here today, is your mind
2 clear?
3 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, it is, your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Do you understand what's going on here?
5 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I do, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Are you presently or have you recently
7 been under the care of a doctor?
10 been under the care of a psychiatrist?
12 THE COURT: Tell me what's going on with that.
13 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: I am being treated for
14 depression, anxiety, mood instability and -- yeah, mood
15 affectation.
16 THE COURT: And that's by a psychiatrist?
18 THE COURT: Are you taking any medication for that?
19 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I am.
20 THE COURT: What are you taking?
21 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: I am taking three different
22 medications: Bupropion, Lamotrigine and Escitalopram.
23 THE COURT: How do those affect your ability to
24 focus on these proceedings, if at all?
25 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Then don't affect my ability to

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1 proceed.
2 THE COURT: You're sure you understand everything
3 going on here, not withstanding those drugs you took?
4 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I do understand, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Mr. Baldwin, do you have any doubt about
6 that?
7 MR. BALDWIN: I have no doubt, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Other than the medications you listed
9 for me, Ms. Rahman, in the last 24 hours, have you taken any
10 kind of narcotic drugs?
11 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: No, your Honor, I haven't.
12 THE COURT: In the last 24 hours, other than the
13 medications you've told me, have you taken any drugs at all?
15 THE COURT: In the last 24 hours, have you had any
16 alcoholic beverages to drink?
18 THE COURT: Have you ever been hospitalized for any
19 kind of physical or mental illness?
21 THE COURT: Have you ever been hospitalized or
22 treated for addiction to drugs or alcohol?
24 THE COURT: Let me move on to Mr. Mattis.
25 Mr. Mattis, your full name please.

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PROCEEDINGS
1 DEFENDANT MATTIS: My name is Colinford King Mattis.
2 THE COURT: How old are you, sir?
3 DEFENDANT MATTIS: I'm currently 34 years old.
4 THE COURT: The highest grade you completed in
5 school was law school; is that correct?
6 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, that is correct, sir.
7 THE COURT: As you sit here today, is your mind
8 clear?
9 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, it is, sir.
10 THE COURT: Do you understand what's going on?
13 been under the care of a doctor, or a mental health
14 professional?
16 THE COURT: Tell me about that.
17 DEFENDANT MATTIS: I currently see a psychiatrist
18 and a --
19 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I need you to speak up. Is
20 there a microphone there?
21 DEFENDANT MATTIS: I currently see a psychiatrist
22 and a therapist.
23 THE COURT: And has the psychiatrist prescribed any
24 drugs for you to take?
25 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes. I'm treated for ADHD and I

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PROCEEDINGS
1 take Ritalin, as well as alcoholism and I take Vivitrol for
2 alcoholism.
3 THE COURT: Are those drugs affecting in any way
4 your ability to focus on these proceedings?
6 THE COURT: Are you taking any kind of drugs besides
7 those?
9 THE COURT: In the last 24 hours, have you had any
10 alcoholic beverage to drink?
12 THE COURT: To each of the -- let me ask you, have
13 you ever been hospitalized for drug addiction or mental
14 illness?
15 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, your Honor. In last May in
16 2021 I was treated inpatient at a rehabilitation center for
17 substance and alcohol abuse.
18 THE COURT: About how long was that?
19 DEFENDANT MATTIS: That was about a month-long
20 program.
21 THE COURT: What was the diagnosis that kept you
22 there?
23 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Alcoholism and depression.
24 THE COURT: Let me ask each of the lawyers, have you
25 discussed this matter thoroughly with your clients,

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PROCEEDINGS
1 Mr. Baldwin?
3 THE COURT: Ms. Shroff?
4 MS. SHROFF: I have, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: In your opinion, does your client
6 understand the rights that your client will be waiving by
7 pleading guilty?
9 MS. SHROFF: He does understand the rights he will
10 be giving up by pleading guilty, your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Do you have any doubt at all as to your
12 clients' competence to plead at this time?
13 MR. BALDWIN: No, I don't, your Honor.
15 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Shroff, I don't want you
16 to think you have to pop up every time, if you want to you can
17 but sitting down is fine.
18 MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry, I was just -- this is how I
19 was trained so --
20 THE COURT: I understand.
21 MS. SHROFF: -- thank you.
22 THE COURT: Okay. Have each of you discussed with
23 your client the maximum sentence and fine that could be
24 imposed?

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PROCEEDINGS
1 MS. SHROFF: I have, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Have you discussed with your client the
3 operation of the sentencing guidelines and how those work?
4 MR. BALDWIN: Yes, your Honor, I have.
6 THE COURT: Now let me ask each of the defendants,
7 have you had as much of an opportunity to discuss this case
8 with your lawyer as you feel you need?
11 THE COURT: Are you fully satisfied with the
12 representation that each of your lawyers have given you?
13 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I am, your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Now you've seen a copy of the
16 superseding information, right?
19 THE COURT: You've discussed that thoroughly with
20 your lawyer, am I right?
21 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I have.
23 THE COURT: Let me go over with you the rights that
24 you're going to be giving up by pleading guilty.
25 The first and most important thing you need to

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PROCEEDINGS
1 understand is that you don't have to plead guilty, even if you
2 are guilty. Under our legal system, the government has the
3 burden of proving the guilt of a defendant beyond a reasonable
4 doubt. If the government cannot or does not meet that burden
5 of proof, then the jury has the duty to find the defendant not
6 guilty, even if the defendant is guilty.
7 What that means is that even if you're guilty, you
8 have a choice right now. It's up to you to decide what to do
9 not your lawyer and not anybody else. You can go ahead and
10 plead guilty, as you told me you want to, or even now you
11 could change your minds, you could tell me I want to go to
12 trial and therefore we would enter a not guilty plea.
13 Do you understand that by pleading guilty you're
14 giving up your right to make the government meet its burden of
15 proof at trial?
16 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, your Honor, I understand.
17 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, your Honor, I understand.
18 THE COURT: All right. Now, if you wanted to plead
19 not guilty, then under the Constitution and laws of the United
20 States you'd be entitled to a speedy and public trial by jury
21 with the assistance of your lawyer. Again, at that trial you
22 would be presumed innocent. You do not have to prove that you
23 were innocent. It would be the government's burden to
24 overcome that presumption and prove you guilty by competent
25 evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Again, if the government

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PROCEEDINGS
1 were to fail at that, the jury would have the obligation to
2 find you not guilty. But by pleading guilty, you're giving up
3 your right to have the government satisfy its burden of
4 proving that you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
5 Do you understand that you're giving up that right?
8 THE COURT: Now if you wanted to go to trial the
9 government would have to come to court and present witnesses
10 and those witnesses would have to testify in your presence and
11 your lawyer would have the right to cross examine those
12 witnesses, to object to evidence offered by the government,
13 and to offer evidence on your own behalf. You'd also have the
14 right to compel the attendance of witnesses by issuance of
15 subpoena. But by pleading guilty, you're giving up your right
16 to confront the witnesses who might testify against you at
17 trial. You're also giving up your right to offer evidence on
18 your own behalf and to raise any defenses that you might have.
19 Do you understand that you're giving up those
20 rights?
23 THE COURT: If you went to trial, you'd also have
24 the right to testify on your own behalf if you chose to do so,
25 however, no one could make you testify. Under the

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1 Constitution of the United States, a defendant in a criminal
2 case can't be forced to take the witness stand at their trial
3 and say anything that could be used against them to show that
4 the defendant is guilty of the crime charged. What that means
5 is that if you told me you wanted to go to trial, but you
6 didn't want to testify, I would instruct the jury during the
7 trial that they could not hold that choice against you. In
8 fact, I would instruct them that even in their deliberations
9 they could not even refer to the fact that you chose not to
10 testify. But by pleading guilty, you're admitting your guilt
11 and you're giving up your right against self-incrimination, as
12 I've just described it to you.
15 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, I understand, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: If you continue to want to plead guilty,
17 I need to ask you questions about what you did in order to
18 satisfy myself that you are in fact guilty of the charge to
19 which you are pleading, and you'll have to answer my questions
20 truthfully and acknowledge your guilt. Remember again, you
21 just took an oath, everything has to be answered truthfully.
22 Once you plead guilty and I accept your guilty plea,
23 you'll be giving up your constitutional right to a trial and
24 all the other rights that I have just discussed. There will
25 be no further trial of any kind. I will simply enter a

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1 judgment of guilty based upon your guilty plea.
5 THE COURT: All right. Normally, if you went before
6 a jury and you were convicted, you would have the right to
7 appeal your conviction, but by pleading guilty you are waiving
8 your right to appeal your conviction.
12 THE COURT: Are you willing to give up your right to
13 a trial and all the other rights I've just discussed?
16 THE COURT: Now I understand that the parties have
17 entered into a plea agreement; I have copies of it. I
18 understand that the defendants have signed it and I'm going to
19 ask my deputy to come to each of you and have you confirm or
20 deny that that is your signature on the plea agreement.
21 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, that's my signature, your
22 Honor.
23 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, your Honor, that is my
24 signature.
25 THE COURT: Each of you has thoroughly read the plea

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1 agreement; is that correct?
4 THE COURT: And have you reviewed it carefully with
5 your attorney?
8 THE COURT: Do you understand its terms?
11 THE COURT: Does the written plea agreement
12 accurately represent the entire understanding or agreement
13 that you have with the government?
16 THE COURT: All right. Defense counsel, have you
17 read and reviewed with your client the written plea agreement
18 that's before you?
21 THE COURT: Does it reflect your understanding of
22 the entire agreement that your client has entered into with
23 the government?
24 MR. BALDWIN: Yes, it does, your Honor.
25 MS. SHROFF: It does, your Honor.

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1 THE COURT: Now, I want to mention to both of you
2 that I advised you a minute ago about the fact that you were
3 giving up your right to appeal your conviction by pleading
4 guilty. Normally you'd still have the right to appeal your
5 sentence, but under this plea agreement you do not have the
6 right to appeal the sentence -- in fact, I don't think they
7 can appeal the sentence at all because -- I mean, there is an
8 appeal waiver, is there not?
9 MR. RICHARDSON: There is, your Honor, I think it
10 set at 60 months, so the only circumstance in which they could
11 appeal the sentence is if the Court were to impose a sentence
12 above what it says in there.
13 THE COURT: I'm not legally allowed to impose
14 sentence above the statutory maximum, so only if I did that,
15 would you be allowed to take an appeal from your sentence.
17 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I do your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Now let me talk to you about how I'm
20 going to determine the appropriate sentence for you when that
21 time comes.
22 The maximum sentence, as we just established under
23 this statute, is five years in prison. There is no mandatory
24 minimum. There could be no time in prison. Therefore, what
25 you know right now is that the sentence will be somewhere

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1 between no time, zero time, and 60 months or five years.
2 In addition, there is a maximum supervised release
3 term of one year. This means that after you're released from
4 custody, if you were to violate any of the terms of your
5 release, you may be returned to prison for up to a year. If
6 that happened, you wouldn't get any credit for the time you
7 had already served. Now, you know, supervised release refers
8 to a series of terms and conditions that are placed upon you
9 when you are released from custody or when you've been
10 sentenced to no time in custody. You have to obey those very
11 carefully so that you don't jeopardize your freedom.
15 THE COURT: The statute also provides that I could
16 impose a fine upon each of you of up to $250,000, which is
17 twice the -- or twice the pecuniary loss or twice the
18 pecuniary gain, whichever is greater.
22 THE COURT: You could also be required to pay
23 restitution, and I think we have -- have we an agreed amount
24 on restitution?
25 MR. RICHARDSON: There is, your Honor. Each of the

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1 defendants has agreed to pay a total amount of $30,137 to the
2 City of New York, and that's provided in paragraph 1E of each
3 of their plea agreements.
4 THE COURT: Did you say 30 or 37?
5 MR. RICHARDSON: 30,137. I apologize for the mask,
6 your Honor.
7 THE COURT: All right. So you understand that will
8 be due and payable immediately once judgment is entered
9 against you?
12 THE COURT: In addition, I'm required to impose a
13 100-dollar special assessment upon you just because that's
14 what we do with every count, and the statute requires it.
15 Are each of you a citizen of the United States?
18 THE COURT: All right. Now I've told you that
19 sentence is going to be somewhere between zero and five years
20 and the question becomes, how do I go about determining where
21 in that range I should sentence you.
22 The starting point are what we call the sentencing
23 guidelines. Those are guidelines to help judges decide the
24 appropriate sentence. They're promulgated by Congress and the
25 United States Sentencing Commission. What the guidelines do

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1 is they take into the account the nature of your crime and
2 they assign a numerical value to it, and then they look at any
3 criminal history you have and they assign a numerical value to
4 that. We then plot those two variables on a graph and we come
5 out with a recommended range under the guidelines what your
6 sentence should be.
7 Now, in addition to putting a numerical value on
8 your crime and on your criminal history, there might be other
9 provisions of the guidelines that would require me to adjust
10 that range up or down. In addition, the guidelines aren't
11 binding on me. I might decide when I sentence you, that a
12 sentence higher than the guidelines is appropriate, or a
13 sentence lower than the guidelines is appropriate. The
14 guidelines, therefore, are purely advisory, but I do have to
15 consider them at least. I don't have to follow them, but I
16 have to consider them.
17 The bottom line, what I need you to understand
18 today, is that until the date of the sentencing when I get a
19 Presentence Investigation Report and I hear from each of you,
20 I hear from your lawyers and I hear from the government and I
21 hear from the Probation Department, you're not going to know
22 with any certainty what the sentence is going to be. You're
23 not going to know with any certainty whether when I compute
24 the guidelines initially there might be grounds within the
25 guidelines that we call departures to make them higher or

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1 lower, and you're not going to know with any certainty whether
2 I might impose a non-guideline sentence, that is, a sentence
3 that is lower or higher than the guidelines. In short, you're
4 not going to know today what your sentence will be, and if you
5 don't like the sentence when I impose it, you're not going to
6 be able to withdraw your guilty plea.
10 THE COURT: All right. While the guidelines are
11 only one factor for me to consider, I want the attorneys to
12 give you their best estimate of what the guidelines are likely
13 to say based upon the facts available to them at this point in
14 time. Keep in mind at this stage it's still just an estimate
15 and it could change.
16 Let's have the estimate, Mr. Richardson.
17 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, the government has
18 estimated the guidelines based in part on the Presentence
19 Investigation Report originally prepared by the Probation.
20 The government's estimated a guideline sentence recommended in
21 this case of 60 months. And the defendants as part of their
22 plea agreement in paragraph 2 have agreed not to oppose that
23 guidelines determination and waived their right to a hearing
24 regarding that determination.
25 THE COURT: Defense counsel have any different view

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1 of it?
2 MR. BALDWIN: No, we concur, your Honor.
3 MS. SHROFF: We concur as we're bound by the plea
4 agreement, but of course the final guidelines computation
5 depends on the Court.
6 THE COURT: Right, I think it's worth noting that
7 the guidelines would be much higher than 60 months if there
8 were no statutory cap, but because the maximum sentence is 60
9 months, that's the most I could possibly sentence you, as I've
10 told you before. All right.
11 Do you have any questions you want to ask me about
12 this charge, or your rights, or anything else relating to this
13 matter?
14 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: No, thank you, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Are you ready to plead?
19 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, just a procedural
20 matter, I wanted to make two points, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Sure.
22 MR. RICHARDSON: The first is that one of the
23 collateral consequences of defendants' conviction, and this
24 described in paragraph 12 of each of the plea agreements, is
25 what is almost certain to be their disbarment from the

27
PROCEEDINGS
1 practice of law. So I just wanted to note for the record that
2 is one of the serious collateral consequences of their
3 conviction.
4 THE COURT: I believe that's mandatory under state
5 law, right?
6 MR. RICHARDSON: That is the warning they are
7 receiving in this plea agreement.
8 THE COURT: Okay. If you are convicted of a felony,
9 and you're pleading guilty to one today, then you have
10 automatic disbarment, you lose your law license.
11 Do each of you understand that?
14 THE COURT: All right. What else, Mr. Richardson?
15 MR. RICHARDSON: The second item, your Honor, is
16 just to put on the record the agreement the government has
17 made as part of this plea agreement, and that is under
18 paragraph 5B, the government has agreed to recommend, pursuant
19 to Rule 11(c)(1)(B) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure
20 that the Court impose a non-guideline sentence within a range
21 of 18 to 24 months imprisonment, and that recommendation by
22 the government is not binding on the court.
23 THE COURT: All right. That is (c)(1)(B)?
24 MR. RICHARDSON: That's correct, your Honor,
25 (c)(1)(B).

28
PROCEEDINGS
1 THE COURT: Got it. Each of you have heard the
2 recommendation that the government is going to give me as to
3 your sentence. I'm not bound by that. Again, I could go as
4 high as 60 months, I could go lower than 18 months. I have no
5 idea, as I sit here today, but again you need to understand
6 that you can't withdraw your guilty plea if I don't accept the
7 government's recommendation.
9 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Yes, I understand your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Let me ask you again, are you ready to
12 plead?
15 THE COURT: To defense counsel, do you know of any
16 reason why your client should not plead guilty?
19 THE COURT: Are you aware of any legal defense to
20 the charge that you believe would succeed?
22 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, whatever defenses we
23 believe would succeed we've discussed with Mr. Mattis and he,
24 along with counsel, still wishes to proceed with the guilty
25 plea.

29
PROCEEDINGS
1 THE COURT: Is that right, Mr. Mattis?
3 THE COURT: All right.
4 Are you pleading guilty voluntarily and of your own
5 free will?
7 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes.
8 THE COURT: Has anyone threatened or forced you to
9 plead guilty?
12 THE COURT: Other than the written promises
13 contained in the plea agreement, has anyone made any other
14 promises to get you to plead guilty?
17 THE COURT: All right. Then what is your plea?
18 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: Guilty, your Honor.
19 DEFENDANT MATTIS: I plead guilty, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Tell me what you each of you did in
21 connection with this superseding information that makes you
22 guilty of the charge.
23 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: May I take off my mask?
24 THE COURT: You may.
25 DEFENDANT RAHMAN: On May 29th, 2020, I agreed with

30
PROCEEDINGS
1 Colinford Mattis to make and possess a destructive device and
2 use it to damage a police vehicle. We assembled the device
3 together and I threw it into a damaged, unoccupied auxillary
4 police vehicle. The device was not registered in the National
5 Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.
6 My actions occurred on the night civil protest in
7 Brooklyn following George Floyd's murder.
8 I deeply regret my actions and wish I had made
9 better choices.
10 THE COURT: Is the government satisfied with that
11 allocution?
12 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor --
13 THE COURT: If you have a proffer --
14 MR. RICHARDSON: Yes --
15 THE COURT: -- that you want to make --
16 MR. RICHARDSON: -- I do, your Honor.
17 THE COURT: -- let me get both them.
18 As she stated, do you want anything more from her?
19 MR. RICHARDSON: No, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Mr. Mattis, tell me what you did in
21 connection with being guilty of this crime.
22 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Your Honor, on the night of
23 May 29th, 2020, I agreed with another person, my co-defendant,
24 to make and possess a destructive device which was used by
25 another person, my co-defendant, to damage a NYPD vehicle.

31
PROCEEDINGS
1 The device was not registered in the National Firearms
2 Registration and Transfer Record.
3 This was in Brooklyn a few days after George Floyd's
4 murder.
5 I wish I had made different and better choices that
6 night, and I've deeply regretted my conduct ever since.
7 THE COURT: Is the government satisfied with that
8 allocution?
9 MR. RICHARDSON: I believe the defendant allocuted
10 that he agreed to make and possess a destructive device, but I
11 don't believe that he allocuted to damage a New York Police
12 Department vehicle.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Mattis, did you agree to damage a
14 New York City Police car?
15 DEFENDANT MATTIS: Yes, I did, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Anything else you need?
17 MR. RICHARDSON: Yes, your Honor. The government
18 would just proffer that if these cases were to proceed to
19 trial, that the government would prove the vehicles of the
20 NYPD the defendants conspired to damage or destroy with
21 destructive devices, are used by the NYPD in its performance
22 of official police duties, which affect interstate commerce,
23 including, among other things, the suppression of ongoing
24 civil disorders that themselves affect interstate commerce,
25 and then both the defendants I believe also allocuted that

32
PROCEEDINGS
1 neither of the Molotov cocktails was registered to them in the
2 National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and the
3 government would also prove that if necessary.
4 THE COURT: All right. Anything else that the
5 government needs to do before I determine whether to accept
6 the guilty pleas?
7 MR. RICHARDSON: I don't believe, other than to ask
8 the defendants if they agree the government would be able to
9 prove those facts, I don't believe so, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Is there any dispute as to whether the
11 government would be able to prove the facts that
12 Mr. Richardson has just proffered?
13 MR. BALDWIN: Your Honor, we don't dispute that the
14 government would be able to prove the interstate commerce
15 nexus.
16 THE COURT: Ms. Shroff.
17 MS. SHROFF: We have no reason to question the
18 recitation by the government, your Honor. If they say they
19 could prove it, we agree.
20 THE COURT: Are you satisfied?
21 MR. RICHARDSON: Yes, your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Based on the information given to me, I
23 find that each of the defendants is acting voluntarily, that
24 they understand their rights and the consequences of their
25 guilty plea, and that there is a factual basis for the plea.

33
PROCEEDINGS
1 I, therefore, accept the plea of guilty to the single count
2 superseding information.
3 Now let's talk about where we go from here. I don't
4 think we've got to wait the usual time for sentencing unless
5 you all need that time to prepare sentencing memos. I've got
6 the PSR, right? So what do you want to do timewise?
7 MR. BALDWIN: Your Honor, I think that's right. I
8 don't know that it's necessary to have an additional or second
9 PSR prepared for the Court. I think any modifications to it
10 would be minor and we could point those out to the Court. For
11 our own scheduling purposes for defense counsel, and just to
12 allow us to get the materials that we want to submit to the
13 Court in advance of sentencing, we'd asked for a brief period
14 of time, recognizing that the case has obviously been on the
15 Court's docket for a long period of time, we were hoping for a
16 date in mid to late August, if that's convenient for the
17 Court's calendar, at least with respect to Ms. Rahman. I
18 believe that -- I'll certainly let Mr. Mattis' counsel speak
19 for herself.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I wasn't quite certain if
22 the Court was going to order an updated PSR. I just note that
23 the PSR does accompany the person and it should at least state
24 the counts of conviction correctly. I think it should reflect
25 the new plea agreement correctly. It leaves -- I just think

34
PROCEEDINGS
1 that the PSR that issues should reflect the government's new
2 position on sentencing. It should reflect that we are able to
3 disagree with them and still seek a probationary sentence. I
4 think at least in some part, I think, I leave it up to the
5 Court.
6 THE COURT: I think you're right. I will direct
7 Mr. Richardson to contact probation and probation can
8 determine whether we need a revised PSR or whether the new
9 information can be added by addendum, but one way or the other
10 I think it has to be part of the report, so I think you're
11 right about that.
12 In that case, I think we should go into late
13 September to do this.
14 MR. BALDWIN: That's fine with us, your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Mr. Jackson, can we have a date late
16 September.
17 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Yes, Judge.
18 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we request different
19 sentencing dates?
20 THE COURT: Sure.
21 MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
22 THE COURT: You're welcome.
23 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Judge, do you prefer to do
24 the sentencing during the day or after trial.
25 (Discussion off the record.)

35
PROCEEDINGS
1 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 5 p.m. for -- let's do
2 Mr. Mattis -- Ms. Rahman. Ms. Rahman, your trial date is set
3 for Thursday --
4 THE COURT: Sentencing date.
5 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: I'm sorry. Your sentencing
6 date is set for Thursday, September 29th at 5 p.m.
7 THE COURT: Okay. Is that satisfactory, does that
8 work for the lawyers?
9 MR. BALDWIN: That fine, your Honor, thank you.
10 MR. RICHARDSON: I'm just looking.
11 THE COURT: Ms. Shroff, that's okay with you.
12 MS. SHROFF: It's fine for me if Ms. Rahman is going
13 first, right? She's going on 9/29.
14 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 9/29.
15 THE COURT: I'm only going to get involved in that
16 if you all can't agree with the way it should go.
17 MS. SHROFF: No, we have agreed, your Honor.
18 MR. BALDWIN: We're fine with proceeding first, your
19 Honor.
20 THE COURT: She'll go first and then Mr. Mattis,
21 okay.
22 Anything else we need to talk about?
23 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Are you requesting the same
24 date or a different date.
25 THE COURT: Different dates, like one after the

36
PROCEEDINGS
1 other.
2 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Okay. Wednesday, October 5th
3 at 1 p.m.
4 MS. SHROFF: Fine, your Honor.
5 MR. RICHARDSON: That works for the government, your
6 Honor.
7 THE COURT: Okay. So we have a separate date for
8 each of the defendants. And please get me your sentencing
9 memoranda as soon as possible. It's going to take a lot of
10 review, so the sooner the better. If I get them too late, I'm
11 going to have to adjourn the sentence and I don't want to do
12 that.
13 MR. BALDWIN: Will do, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Anything else?
15 MR. RICHARDSON: Not from the government, your
16 Honor.
17 MR. BALDWIN: Not from Mr. Rahman.
18 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I apologize, but may I make
19 a request on behalf Mr. Mattis?
20 THE COURT: Of course.
21 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, every year the Court has
22 granted Mr. Mattis' application to visit his mother's grave on
23 June 5th. I apologize, due to my travel last week I didn't
24 get the letter into the Court in time. Would the Court allow
25 a temporary modification for him? Pretrial has all of the

37
PROCEEDINGS
1 details because it's the same place each year and it's just
2 from one to 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Okay with the government?
4 MR. RICHARDSON: Yes, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: That's fine with the Court.
6 MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
7 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, all. We are
8 adjourned.
9 MR. RICHARDSON: Thank you, your Honor.
10 MR. BALDWIN: Thank you, your Honor.
11 (Matter concluded.)
12 * * * * *
13 I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the

record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter.
14
15 s/ Georgette K. Betts June 7, 2022
16 GEORGETTE K. BETTS DATE
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25


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1

1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

5 -against- June 2, 2022

24 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography. Transcript

GEORGETTE K. BETTS, RPR, FCRR, CCR

1 (In open court.)

2 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise.

3 THE COURT: Good afternoon. Have a seat please.

4 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Criminal cause for pleading.

5 Docket number 20-CR-203. U.S.A. versus Mattis and Rahman.

6 Counsel, please state your appearances for the

7 record, beginning with the government, then defense counsel.

8 MR. RICHARDSON: Good afternoon, your Honor. Ian

9 Richardson for the United States. I'm joined at counsel table

10 by FBI Special Agent Elaine Siladi.

11 THE COURT: Good afternoon.

12 MR. BALDWIN: Good afternoon, your Honor. Peter

13 Baldwin and Rita Maxwell on behalf of defendant Urooj Rahman.

14 Ms. Rahman is seated between us.

15 THE COURT: Good afternoon.

16 MS. SHROFF: Good afternoon, your Honor. Sabrina

17 Shroff on behalf of Colin Mattis, who is seated to my left.

19 THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon. I

20 understand -- I'm concerned that the defendants won't hear me

21 if I'm masked, so I'm going to take off my mask, unless anyone

22 in the courtroom objects, okay?

23 MR. RICHARDSON: We are okay, your Honor.

24 MS. SHROFF: Fine, your Honor.

25 THE COURT: I understand the defendants, there is a

GEORGETTE K. BETTS, RPR, FCRR, CCR

1 superseding information, I need to arraign them and they are

2 going to plead guilty to it, and I need to take that plea. It

3 seems before we do any of that, I have to have them withdraw

4 the prior plea, right?

5 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, do you mind if I remove

7 THE COURT: Not at all.

8 MR. RICHARDSON: Your Honor, I believe the way we've

9 approached this is, at the time of their sentencing on the

10 superseding information the government is going to move to

11 dismiss the indictment, which would vacate the pleas. Now,

12 obviously we'll need the Court's permission, the Court's leave

13 to do that, but that is, I think, how we had anticipated

15 THE COURT: I'm a little concerned, can you plead

16 guilty to two instruments in the same case at the same time?

17 MR. RICHARDSON: I don't see why not, but if your

18 Honor would prefer to move forward with having them

19 withdrawing their pleas on the indictment in lieu of that,

20 then we can proceed that way.

21 THE COURT: Does defense counsel have any view on

23 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I think the Court is

24 correct in its approach. Mr. Mattis would move to withdraw

GEORGETTE K. BETTS, RPR, FCRR, CCR

1 then plead guilty to the superseding information.

2 THE COURT: Mr. Baldwin.

3 MR. BALDWIN: Your Honor, is it all right if I

4 remove my mask as well?

5 THE COURT: Yes.

6 MR. BALDWIN: Candidly, your Honor, I don't think we