I'll See You in Disneyland

Here is an interview with me about the film.

• Why did you call the film I'll See You in Disneyland?

The title is taken from Richard Ramirez. He was an American serial killer, rapist, and burglar dubbed the "Night Stalker" by the news media. When Richard Ramirez was led out of the courtroom he was asked by the media how he felt about getting a death sentence.

He answered: "Big deal. Death always went with the territory. I'll See you in Disneyland."

It is hard to know what he meant by that but I often wondered if killing and raping women was his Disneyland. So when I decided to make a film about the dark side of men and investigate them in a dream world I felt this was the perfect title. A film about a little more dangerous Disneyland than the one you find in Florida.

• What inspired you to make I'll See You In Disneyland?

There were mainly 3 things that inspired this film.

1) I'm very concerned about the rise of the Incel culture. Incel stands for involuntary celibate, and consists of a group of men who are sexually frustrated because they can't find women who want them. They chat online. There is a lot of misogyny and radical right wing politics in these chat rooms, along with a very bleak worldview and hatred towards society. Some of these members have taken revenge on society by killing people, usually a group of beautiful women. I wanted to investigate this scary sub culture and try to understand them.

2) I wanted to write a script where I first came up with the character before I found the plot. My daughter Mirjam Sveinbjörg Thorkelsdottir did this brilliantly in her film Tape and I wanted to see if I could also pull it off.

3) I wanted to make a film only I could have made, where I played to my strengths and did what I love doing, like dream scenes, visual scenes with little to no dialogue and a lot of symbolism. In other words, I made a film for myself, in hope that others might also find it interesting.

• Is "I'll See You In Disneyland" a feminist film?

In my mind it is a feminist film but I don't think everyone will see it that way. It deals with one of the reasons why misogynistic views are on the rise in the Western World but I go out of my way not to judge the protagonist. I show empathy for him and try to understand what drove him to think this way. I want the audience to care for him, even though he does and says things that we don't like.

I don't believe in dividing people into good and bad. We are all a mixture of both. We can all get lost. Empathy is the only way to help those who get radicalized, and the only way to have empathy is to understand the motivations and reasons behind their actions. Hate only radicalizes people further.

I'm quite sure this will be uncomfortable for some people. Most films are about heros, good upright people. People we want to be or believe we are. These films make us feel safe and secure and validate our values. This is why they are so popular. We want to be comforted.

Anti heroes on the other hand make us question ourselves and they force us to have empathy with people we would normally dislike. Taxi Driver is a good example of that. I personally love watching films that take me out of my comfort zone. Help me see things from a new perspective. That's what I'm aiming for with this film. It is my Taxi Driver. So I'm quite sure that while some will see it as a feminist film, others will not.

• Is "I'll See You In Disneyland" a Taxi Driver remake?

It's not not really a ramke but it is very much inspired by it. Taxi Driver investigated troubled masculinity after the Vietnam war. The problems men face today are totally different. I wanted to make my own Taxi Driver and investigate how a Travis Bickle kind of person would have behaved today. What challenges he would face. He would not be isolated outside, amongst people, visiting x rated cinemas and walking around with a gun in his pocket. He would find like minded people online and get radicalised there.

Instead of making the protagonist a Taxi driver I opted for a car mechanic. A "masculine" job where we would see him interact with "normal" men. Making him a car mechanic was a small nod to Taxi Driver. I did however regret that decision when I started writing the script because I know nothing about cars so it was rather hard to write scenes about car troubles. In the end I opted for funny moments to hide my lack of knowledge.

• Do you think it's common amongst males to be afraid of showing their softer side? That they are afraid of not being masculine enough?

Not as much as before. I just think many men don't know what is expected of them. Should they be soft or strong? Society tells men that they should be soft but women often don't fall for those men. They try to be friends and the girls fall for the bad boys.

A lot of these incel guys are soft, sensitive men with low self esteem and they feel like they have done all they could to be what modern society told them men should be today. Still women show no interest in them. This increases their sense of injustice and hatred toward the world around them.

Women have been much better at redefining themselves in today's world. Men have a lot of work ahead of them, and that work should not start and end with what women want, or trying to get laid. It should focus on self respect, well being and mental health. And if they want women to fall for them, then start with something practical like learning how to play a guitar. Make yourself interesting. Have something to offer.

• Was it hard to write a script about a man whom most women fear to come across?

I have always wondered why men deal so badly with rejection from women. Throwing acid in their faces, rapeing, killing... Of course women can also deal badly with rejection but it is not as violent as with men. Why are we like that? I read a lot of books about incels and the violent nature of men to try to find an answer to this question.

My conclusion was as follows:

1) Men are supposed to be strong but falling in love makes them vulnerable. They are at the mercy of women, the sex that is supposed to be weaker than men. This power women have over men is even stronger when they reject them. They have no control and have to accept their lot. Their masculine pride is wounded. They are weak.

2) It is usually the woman who picks a man, not vice versa. Just look at any dating site. Women get way more requests than men. Biologically when a woman picks a man she is also looking for good genes for her future offsprings. This is why when some men are rejected they not only experience it as a rejection of their personality but of their essence, their genes. They are being told that their genes have no worth for future generations.

Those who can't deal with rejection often express their hurt with violence. Some serial killers even kill women to deal with a past rejection. Telling men not to be violent is not enough to stop this. We have to address the reason for these feelings. We have to teach men that a rejection means neither of these things. It does not make them weak and it does not mean that their genes are worthless. It only means that the two of you did not fit together, and that there are other women out there. It may sound strange but sadly for some this has to be spelled out.

The hardest part of writing a script about a character like this was to find him within myself. To investigate my own emotions. Now I've never had a desire to hurt a woman but I have experienced rejection so I tried to magnify that feeling and imagine how I would feel if I was socially awkward.

• Including dream scenes in movies is tricky and there are many in your film. Why dreams?

I did not want to make a traditional thriller or horror film about a man harassing women. I wanted to investigate what was happening inside the head of the protagonist. An author of a book can tell the reader what the character is thinking and how he is feeling. Films don't work that way. You have to guess what is happening in the head of the protagonist. Sure you can use a voice over, but they are usually rather uninteresting and boring. Film is a visual artform and one should try to show everything visually. This is where dreams can help. They can tell us visually everything we want to know about the inner life of a character.

I also love poetry and symbolism and dream scenes in films are usually very poetic and full of symbolism. It is interesting that I hate listening to people telling me about their dreams but I love dream scenes in films. I think the reason is because you have to experience dreams visually. Films are maybe the only art form that really can capture the feeling and magic of dreams.

I use dreams or dream-like scenes in very many of my films. I think I fell in love with dreams in films when I saw Wild Strawberries (Smultronstället) by Ingmar Bergman. The dream scenes floored me. I know of no director who does dream scenes as well as Bergman did in his films, which is why I have a small homage to him in this film.

• Why so many dance scenes?

To me dance means freedom and the film deals a lot with the feeling of being stuck while everyone else is free around you. This is why the protagonist watches other people dance but is unable to join them.

There is also another reason. One of my dream projects is to make a musical, so if it fits I try to include people dancing or singing. I have however never combined the two in the same film. Hopefully one day I will be able to do that.

• Why have you chosen to do everything yourself, even producing the movie?

There are many reasons for that. Here are the main ones:

1) I find it humiliating to ask for permission to make art. Why should someone else - someone I don't know and does not know me - decide if I can make something I have a need to make? I understand that it costs a lot to make films and someone has to decide who gets th.