Talk:二

What is "Tang" under Chinese romanizations and why does it link to "seaweed"? Badagnani 21:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

The fact that it links to seawood is coincidental (Tang means seaweed in German). Tang is meant to refer to the Tang Dynasty. In other words, this is supposed to represent the way that 二 was pronounced during the Tang Dynasty. nji3 (j would sound like an English y). The 3 is the tone number which, unlike Mandarin, refers to a middle Chinese falling tone. In modern Standard Cantonese, one of the falling tones is given the number three (which is where the three comes from). Accoring to William Baxter's transcription, a middle Chinese falling tone is represented by an H at the end of the syllable. So in Baxter's transcription method for middle Chinese, 二 would be nyijH[1] (again, the j would be read like an English y).

A-cai 01:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

This explains things but it should be clarified that it's standard Tang speech. Is there a name for that language? I was shocked recently upon learning that in ancient China words were pronounced quite differently than in modern standard Mandarin, maybe similar to Cantonese or other southern languages. Tong-kin Woon writes that the transverse flute called "yak" in Korea (籥), which was imported during the Tang Dynasty for ritual music, borrowed this early Chinese pronunciation "yak." Today there's no Standard Mandarin syllable "yak" and the character is pronounced "yue" or something like that. So earlier Chinese pronunciations would be really great to have, if they're accurate. Sometimes it's impossible to know exactly how things were pronounced in earlier periods. Badagnani 06:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang, Tooironic, Suzukaze-c, do you think these definitions should be here? Isn't that just how Chinese numbers work? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:27, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply

I added this some time ago, per the senses in Zdic, which I think may come from 高级汉语词典. I'm fine with removing them, although I feel it may be better to clarify this somewhere, perhaps in an appendix (so that people realise 一千二 is not one thousand and two). Wyang (talk) 06:39, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think an appendix is a good idea, if we decide to remove them (I have no opinion on that specifically) —suzukaze (t・c) 23:11, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Reply

It would be worth noting in the entry in some way that the Mandarin pronunciation for this in the Mainland is now overwhelmingly àr /ɑɻ⁵¹ ~ ɐɻ⁵¹/, and that pronouncing it as èr /ɤɻ⁵¹/ sounds very unnatural. Wyang (talk) 12:08, 11 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang: Does this apply to all characters with er, like 兒／儿 (ér) and 爾／尔 (ěr), or is it just for 二 (èr)? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 13:46, 11 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: It applies only to 二 (and 貳), but not 兒 and 爾. Seems to be tone-conditioned allophony of the ‹er› syllable: [2], but the /ɑɻ⁵¹/ is on its own a valid Mandarin syllable as well. Wyang (talk) 23:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

I overheard someone use /ɤɻ⁵¹/ (「一，二，三」) the other day. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 05:03, 23 October 2018 (UTC)Reply