Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HeavyWeight Yoga

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Feel free to renominate if so desire. I encourage people to expand and improve first. SarahStierch (talk) 01:36, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HeavyWeight Yoga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This is a purely promotional article for Abby Lenz--apparently the neologism is due to her--note the coincidence of her trademark with the title of the article. I am not convinced that yoga when practiced by overweight people is a separate encyclopedic topic. FWIW, this was actually accepted at AfC, and by an experienced editor, whom I have notified. DGG ( talk ) 20:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this is a promotional article. A Google search of the topic makes it clear that "HeavyWeight" is a brand-name, rather than a specific and distinct type of Yoga. Further complicating matters is that research supports yoga as an effective treatment for obesity. ^[1] However, I could find no support for the idea that obese individuals need any special type of yoga, including "HeavyWeight" yoga. The "sources" cited in the article are relatively weak, either being linked to Lenz, who has the majority stake in "HeavyWieght" yoga's success, or random blogs, often cited multiple times. Even the articles cited in this article refer to "HeavyWeight" yoga as "making yoga accessible to plus-sized men and women." It's just yoga, marketed to obese people. If it deserves mention at all, while I believe it does not, it would be on the Yoga page. SaffronOlive ( talk ) 21:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Update: This is genuine and notable yoga practice. HeavyWeight Yoga was a part of the documentary "All of Me," 2013's documentary audience award winner at the Austin Film Festival. It's a film about obesity and weight loss surgery included in the PBS Independent Lens series for 2013-14. Lentz is on a panel this week conducted by KLRU TV in Austin. Civic Summit: Obesity, Weight Loss and Body Acceptance explores the complex issues and experiences surrounding obesity and weight loss. The panel is hosted by a CNN reporter Seema Mathur. http://www.klru.org/blog/category/civic-summit/ Existing references include the "Yoga Beyond Fitness: Getting More Than Exercise from an Ancient Spiritual Practice" book by Tom Pilarzyk. US News and World Report supports the idea that obese individuals need special yoga. http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2013/04/10/yoga-for-people-who-are-overweight-or-obese The sources for the article include newspapers, American Fitness magazine reporting, Pilarzyk's textbook, and health reports from major network TV affiliates. During drafts of the article, a Wiki editor said "The problem right now is not sourcing - the sourcing is great!" The article's language was adjusted to a more encyclopedic tone.

As for the comment about "random blogs," I don't know what that means; One of the cited blogs is operated by the Orlando Sentinel. Obese individuals need a special type of yoga, including "HeavyWeight" yoga." Any other comment here ignores the challenge of any student in a yoga class who tops 300 pounds. These people cannot get a starting point to use this ancient practice, because of their body size, using regular yoga practice. "Can you come up to standing from the floor?" Many obese people cannot, but this condition gets treated in a HeavyWeight Yoga class. Inversions, for example, are seriously contra-indicated. Comment upon the article: Gene93k says that "It's just yoga, marketed to obese people." Where are the sources for that statement? It appears to be an opinion written by a person who's not overweight/obese and practicing yoga. Brand-name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Yoga is also a brand name, but no one wants to sweep that article out of Wikipedia. While this article went through several editions during its vetting, I began to wonder if some sort of size-ism was going on during the editing process. Obesity is an epidemic in Western countries that's killing millions. This practice is unique in its language and its modifications of the 24 foundational poses. I submit that a certified (yes, 200 hours) yoga-trained editor would be the best judge for the uniqueness of the aspects of this practice. Ronseybold (talk) 05:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Not only I am not convinced (like the nominator) that the topic is sufficiently notable on its own to merit a separate article on Wikipeida, but I am convinced that the specific trademark name that is the title of this article does not merit its own article. If anything needs to be salvaged, merge it with another article. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:50, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. An experienced WP editor has reported this is a well-referenced article. None of the sources used in this article are press release-based. Like so much else on WP, it's sourced from print and online reliable sources. Metro-grade dailies like the Orlando newspaper, which publishes its reports on a blog, for example.

This article began its name as a style of yoga, rather than the name of its founder. It's notable, but it's also new. Not so new that it hasn't already been noted by 3rd party independent published reliable sources. A practice of yoga that opens up that discipline of health to an endangered populace is notable. I hope there are very few WP editors who believe teaching obese people yoga is unworthy of a report in the world's largest encyclopedia. Again, use of a trademark as an article name is so commonplace on WP as to be expected. Names are trademarked to protect their creators. No, the article title was chosen not promote the trademark, but to identify this explicit practice of yoga.

The independent third parties have done their work to discuss this topic in its own right. This has been a one-year quest (so far) to get this topic included in WP -- and deleting it on the basis of trademark use looks inappropriate while I read the rest of WP....Ronseybold (talk) 18:59, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SarahStierch (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 November 24. —cyberbot I ^Notify_Online 02:58, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 15:58, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buffbills7701 16:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.