JimCubb

Hey, I responded to you on User talk:VinculumMan. Nice to see another listas addict. Bgwhite (talk) 07:10, 27 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Jim! I am fully aware what the listas parameter is used for. As you rightfully noted, in this particular case a correction needed to be made, since "Izyaslavich" is a patronymic, not a last name, and we do not ever sort by a patronymic. Since there is no last name associated with this person, the sorting should be done by the first name, which is what I have accomplished by removing the listas parameter altogether. I can't help that the bots might restore the incorrect sorting later—as far as I see, it is the problem with the bots' programming and should be addressed accordingly. My philosophy is that bots should never be used in ambiguous situations when a human review is needed. Another option, of course, would have been explicitly setting listas to "Yaropolk Izyaslavich", but that still wouldn't be a 100% guarantee against the bots.

As for rearranging the banners, I sorted them in order of the relevance to the WikiProjects (the article is a bio about a saint who lived in Middle Ages and whose history is very relevant to modern Ukraine and to a lesser extent to modern Russia). Feel free to re-arrange them any other way you want though—that's not an issue I really care much about. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 1, 2011; 19:48 (UTC)

I'll keep that in mind, thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 1, 2011; 20:36 (UTC)

A few listas left under V and then V will be cleared out. You said you knew something about Latin. Could you take a look at these four pages.
Talk:Vettius Agorius Basilius Mavortius
Talk:Vincent Madelgarus
Talk:Vitrasia Faustina
Talk:Vudhijaya Chalermlabha
Bgwhite (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

I only know what I read at Latin names but I gave it a shot. I am not at all certain about the first one but if I was wrong I am sure some one will tell me. The 2nd & 3rd are okay and the Thai prince should be okay. JimCubb (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Yea. Thank you. Now I know what todo with two word Latin names. No more missing listas in V, W, X, Y and Z. Now to do U's Bgwhite (talk) 00:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Looks like you did the listas for Ugaz Abdulrahman Abd Ghani. You got it wrong. (please, oh please let it be wrong so somebody is wrong besides me) You have "Abdulrahman Abd Ghani". It should be "Abd Ghani, Abdulrahman". Found a good [guide]. The "Abd" is at the top of page c13. Bgwhite (talk) 01:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Why didn't you change it along with the value in {{DEFAULTSORT}}?

Seriously, I went by the usage in the article after I had gone through the name changes and the opening of an duplicate article under the other name. He is called Ugaas Abdulrahman, that is Chief Abdulrahman throughout the article. I was vaguely aware of the rule for "abd", wondered if abd Ghani would have correct, and picked the one that is used in the article. I took a guess that Ghani is a tribal name.

The link you sent appears to be very close to the article on the subject and just as clear. Feel free to change what I did but make certain the value in {{DEFAULTSORT}} is the same as the |listas=. While you are at it you may want to fix Ugaas Abdulrahman Muhumad Qani, the duplicate article.

Isn't this fun? JimCubb (talk) 01:48, 8 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Fun??? Boy, you are one sick puppy. :) Looks like you saw the request I made into Middayexpress and beat me by following up with a reply. I went thru the "U"s and skipped over the articles I had questions with, so I could devote more time into figuring them out. Got them all cleared except those last two and that is where I started asking questions. The local chain gang/sewer unclogger/bed pan cleaner doesn't need any help, so I guess I'm stuck doing more "T"s tonight. Bgwhite (talk) 05:31, 8 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

I was being sarcastic although it sometimes helps to redefine the word "fun". At any rate, it beats being a commercial roofer in Riverside, CA, in August. Who or what is "The local chain gang/sewer unclogger/bed pan cleaner"? JimCubb (talk) 20:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ahh, what to do. Need my fix. Need Need Need. Where's my categories? What to Do? Need Need. Can I buy some categories off of you? Just a little to satisfy my cravings.
Been watching the technical village pump today. Thanks for sticking up for us addicts. It has been fun to load up a category in AWB and nothing returns or saving an edit and it vanishes into the ether. The worst part.... I had time on my hands today to talk to my wife...AHHHHHHH Bgwhite (talk) 06:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC) I hope things were not so bad that you listened to her. JimCubb (talk) 06:34, 11 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

  Done

I'm not sure how to do some sorts. They are names Ta thru Th here.

Some are Tibetan (especially Lama's) and others with titles. Bgwhite (talk) 01:14, 16 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

I have to think!? I figured you and Mandarax and the two or three others would have this down to under 1000 by now so I was staying out of your way.

Slightly more to the point, I now know that Tengku is an honorific in Malaysia. I wonder how I got by this long without knowing that. JimCubb (talk) 19:24, 16 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Phew, I see you got to the list. Good, now I can blame you for any of those types of names I do later on. I really appreciate you taking one for the team. Oh, sorry for making you have to think. Somebody has to and it ain't going to be me. My only questions is for Taklung Ma Rinpoche. Other Tibetan name you do western style and this one you didn't. What were the reasons? Bgwhite (talk) 05:02, 17 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Do I remember why I something different yesterday? I am not real certain but I think it was in the hope that a Tibetan would notice that I was inconsistent and give me some better instructions on how to do Tibetan names. I believe there is a Tibetan woman who is an editor, has an article and is something of a consultant on protocol to the hosts of visits of the Dalai Lama and slightly lesser lamas. I do not remember her name or anything else about her (I found her article as a result of a story in the newspaper a few years ago.) and she may be too busy writing the constitution for the new Tibet but she could straighten us out.

Then again, maybe I was just being inconsistent. If some one complains I can change it. JimCubb (talk) 16:11, 17 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hey... I have six more names for you and five are Icelandic. They are the last names under "T". Bgwhite (talk) 05:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Titus Pomponius Proculus Vitrasius Pollio

• I had to find his daughter to verify that the value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} was correct.

Torfhildur Þorsteinsdóttir

• (In this case, "right" means in accordance with the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Iceland.) The sort values on the article page were almost right. The value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} was right and the pipe for one of the Iceland-specific categories was right. I corrected the wrong pipe and deleted the ones that were not necessary.

Torfi Ólafsson

• Copy from the value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} and move on.

Toril Førland

• Copy from the value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} and move on.

Tryggvi Þór Herbertsson

• Fixed value for {{DEFAULTSORT}}, fixed pipes and pasted value from {{DEFAULTSORT}} to |listas=.

Tróndur í Gøtu

• Copy from the value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} and move on. (Yes, I know the value is wrong. "Gøtu" is almost certainly a patronym. But no one has complained about it to Yobot because Maglioditis, Yobot's owner, hasn't changed it.)

Toril and Trondur are not Icelandic. JimCubb (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hi Jim, thanks for all your work with the talk pages and the listas stuff! I just noticed however that you made some mistakes with Dutch names. I know it is really confusing, because someone called Jacob Van der Does living today in Belgium would be listed under Vanderdoes, while if he lived in Amsterdam he would be listed under Does. However, for ALL Dutch names before 1830 (before Belgium became a state) this is not the case and for Wikipedia he should be listed under Does, Jacob van der. In the article it explicitly says "In name directories in the Netherlands, the prefixes are always ignored for sorting (e.g. Van Rijn is ordered under 'R')." If you have any doubts for Dutch people you can always quickly check how the person is sorted on Commons, where the Dutch speaking sorters are more active. I hope you haven't done too many of these! Keep up the good work, and happy sorting! Jane (talk) 09:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Thank you! My plan worked!

I know that the guideline for sorting names is not quite half right and even less than that for names with prefixes plus I do not really understand some of what it says. I figured that if I made any mistakes someone would catch them and let me know, either nicely or with guns blazing.

While I knew about Arab naming conventions and Tibetan name, plus some others, I was not aware of Dutch name. The second half of the paragraph you cited confuses the issue somewhat and seems to be Anglo-specific so I am going to ignore it. I will look through my contributions and fix the ones I can find. Please feel free to fix any that you find that I have missed. It would be very helpful if you could take the time to look at Category:WikiProject Biography articles in the places that are most likely to have Dutch names that are sorted incorrectly and fix the ones you find. Most of the editors who are working on the Great Cleanup project are working on the pages in Category:Biography articles without listas parameter and are having to create sort values as best we can.

Thank you again for your input and your tips. JimCubb (talk) 15:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome! I took a look at those links, but I can't really help you. As you noticed, this gets confusing fast. The important thing to remember is parentage and birthdate. Parentage: if the person is from a Dutch family, but spent most of adult life outside the Netherlands, the last name will probably be sorted with the prefix (i.e. Vanrijn instead of the more proper Dutch way "Rijn, van"). Birthdate: if the person is born before 1830, no matter where in the world, use Dutch sorting, but there are exceptions! For example, when Caspar van Wittel (1656-1736) moved to Rome, his name became Gaspare Vanvitelli. He married and had a son there who is now known as Luigi Vanvitelli (1700-1773). Caspar should be sorted under W and Luigi under V, and this is all due to geography, not parentage. I will go ahead and fix the few I see (I can only see three of these on my watch page), but I have no idea of any others. In general, when you see that DEFAULTSORT has already been set, you may want to keep it as is, and otherwise check for the person on commons. Sorry I can't be any clearer! Jane (talk) 17:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ah crap. More names that I got wrong too. Bgwhite (talk) 17:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC) Yes, but she being very nice about it. There are editors who would have claimed that "everyone knows that prefixes are ignored and 1830 is an important date. JimCubb (talk) 18:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

(edit conflict)

You're welcome! I took a look at those links, but I can't really help you. As you noticed, this gets confusing fast. The important thing to remember is parentage and birthdate. Parentage: if the person is from a Dutch family, but spent most of adult life outside the Netherlands, the last name will probably be sorted with the prefix (i.e. Vanrijn instead of the more proper Dutch way "Rijn, van"). Birthdate: if the person is born before 1830, no matter where in the world, use Dutch sorting, but there are exceptions! For example, when Caspar van Wittel (1656-1736) moved to Rome, his name became Gaspare Vanvitelli. He married and had a son there who is now known as Luigi Vanvitelli (1700-1773). Caspar should be sorted under W and Luigi under V, and this is all due to geography, not parentage. I will go ahead and fix the few I see (I can only see three of these on my watch page), but I have no idea of any others. In general, when you see that DEFAULTSORT has already been set, you may want to keep it as is, and otherwise check for the person on commons. Sorry I can't be any clearer! Jane (talk) 17:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

In general, if there is a value for DEFAULTSORT I copy it to |listas=, on the assumption that the person who wrote the article knew what to put. However, if there is evidence against that, I will change everything.

If a bot generated the value for DEFAULTSORT, I will go a long way to find justification for the value. None of the bots can be relied upon to create a valid sort value out of nothing. If there is internal evidence that the sort value is incorrect, I will change it. I just finished a Bengali poet whose name is in the form "A B C". The sort value was "C, A B" but his father is "A D E" and his children are "A F G" & "A H I". His sort value is now "A B C"

As for your example, it depends on the title on the article. If the article for the father is Caspar van Wittel, he goes under W. If it had been Gaspare Vanvitelli, he would go under V. (The latter probably should exist as a redirect.)

Thank you again for your help. I will try to remember it in the future. JimCubb (talk) 18:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Sorry I forgot about patronymics. Rembrandt Harmensz van Rijn is sometimes sorted under H and sometimes under R. The past 50 years or so, sorters have shortened his name up to just Rembrandt, which makes things a whole lot easier. This is somewhat like your Bengali poet. Good luck and now you know why researching these people gets hairy in old archive documents!! I can imagine that the bots go nuts with these, and I guess the trick is to try to clean up the larger group of entries without breaking anything. Jane (talk) 19:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

Things just keep getting worse. The bots don't care. They just run the program that was written for them. For the most part, the bot owners do not care much more. JimCubb (talk) 20:15, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

I will try to keep my talk pages unambiguous. I have done about 2,000 articles on the clergy- about 95% Anglican, the rest shared between RC CofS and Methodists All the best Bashereyre (talk) 16:42, 22 March 2011 (UTC) PS I am also the top submitter on this site [1]Reply

Rugby union and rugby league have a common origin, but are separate sports. RL split off from RU over a row about professionalim.--MacRusgail (talk) 11:37, 1 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Two things.

1. Sorry, I think you've been around long enough to give me your opinion (also you are sort of to blame). Could you look at Talk:Dirar Abu Seesi#Deletions and see if I'm out of line. Here is the revision that the other editor put in. Tikun Olam (blog) is his blog. You are to blame because I came across it while setting its listas, um, yea, you are to blame I'm doing listas, yea that's it. If you don't want to touch it, I completely understand.
2. There are quite a few latin names in the A, B and C section of Category:Biography articles without listas parameter. I've cleared out A and B of "weird" names, but left the latin ones. I'm sure I didn't get all the weird one, plus new ones are being added all the time. I'm starting on C and there are already a fun-filled amount at the beginning.

Bgwhite (talk) 05:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Never mind at looking at the article to give an opinion. The editor just issued a threat and I gladly took him up on the threat. Bgwhite (talk) 06:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

I looked at it anyway as I am only here as a user right now. The third party told him that his blog is not to be used as a source. The is the second time in four months he has been told not to use his blog as a source. Put him in the "very slow to get them message, bound to get into trouble" column and move on. JimCubb (talk) 22:25, 11 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

How would you do the listsas for Duke Dao of Cao?

"Dao, Duke of Cao" and if anyone complains about it, I have been sick for the past week.

I guess you didn't read WP's editor agreement. You are supposed to be editing away even on your death bed, provided you say you are going on a wiki break just before you die. Pfft, I guess you are just a wimp. :) Bgwhite (talk) 23:44, 21 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Boy, I hope you are feeling ok. You haven't been around in awhile.

Per Magioladitis' advise and Yobot being blocked at the moment, I've submitted a new request at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Yobot-19BG. I mentioned that you would be helping out looking for "weird" names. Bgwhite (talk) 06:56, 3 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

I hope you get feeling better soon. Take care. Bgwhite (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

I haven't seen you for a while. I hope you are fine and not having any health problems anymore. I wish you all the best. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)Reply

Do you know about this Meetup this coming Saturday in LA? Wikipedia:Meetup/LA/4 Hope you can attend. Tinkermen (talk) 15:23, 23 June 2011 (UTC)Reply

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Ya'akov Katz-per JimCubb-02.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 18:54, 4 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

You are invited to "Come Edit Wikipedia!" at the West Hollywood Library on Saturday, July 27th, 2013. There will be coffee, cookies, and good times! -- Olegkagan (talk) — Message delivered by Hazard-Bot at 03:47, 21 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

Help build the Wikipedia community in Southern California at "Come Edit Wikipedia!" presented by the West Hollywood Library on Saturday, August 31st, 2013 from 1-5pm. Drop in for some lively editing and conversation! Plus, it's a library, so there are plenty of sources. --Olegkagan (talk) — Message delivered by Hazard-Bot at 02:35, 22 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I have not heard of you for a long time. I would like to know that you are OK. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)Reply

The UCR Libraries are hosting three edit-a-thons focusing on their great special collections (science fiction, water resources, the Inland Empire and more) on Oct. 12, 2013, Oct. 26, 2013, and Nov. 23, 2013. Please participate if you can! Details and signup here. All are welcome, new and experienced editors alike! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 04:08, 8 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello: Some time ago you commented about how Smackbot was clearing up the backlog. (Category talk:Biography articles without listas parameter#A little progress) I see the number is back up to 60k. How bots work is quite a mystery to me – they seem like incantations. So I surmise that Smackbot takes the defaultsort data on the article page and converts it to listas data on the talk page WikiProject Biography banner. If this is the case, how can Smackbot be reactivated to perform the task. (I'm also asking Rich Farmbrough to help.) Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 19:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia:Deceased_Wikipedians/2011#James_A._.22Jim.22_Cubbin_.28.7B.7Bu.7CJimCubb.7D.7D.29. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:50, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Reply

This Wikipedian is deceased. Respectful comments of remembrance may be left below.

Currently working on this project, in memory of Jim.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:03, 9 August 2016 (UTC).Reply

 

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