Talk:The Ren & Stimpy Show/Archive 4

There needs to be a consensus about what is considered the series' "original run". The series debuted on Nickelodeon. Soon afterward, the series began airing on MTV. The series concluded on Nickelodeon on 1995-12-16 with "A Scooter for Yaksmas". Almost a year later, the series concluded on MTV with an episode that did not air on Nickelodeon, "Sammy and Me / The Last Temptation". I cannot find a guideline on Wikipedia that describes what's a series' "original run", but I tend to see the MTV run as a different run from Nickelodeon's, and hence not the original run. IsaacAA (talk) 15:41, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I would tend to agree that it seems like two runs: the first on Nick, the second on MTV. The original would be the Nick run. This could be clarified (if it's not already) in the article, and should anyone feel the need to clarify it in the infobox, I wouldn't be inclined to change it. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:02, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

You're right. Spongebob tales of a sudden death (talk) 21:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

You're right. Spongebob tales of a sudden death (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake. Spongebob tales of a sudden death (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I know its been archived but I still wish to make this point rather clear, and I still dont know how to move forward. Main point is we have details as to when it was broadcast in the USA, but no where else, In other countries there took the view this was NO kids cartoon. I do still believe BBC time slots should be noted as there did not treat this series as a kids programme

The series premiered in the UK on the BBC, who never regarded Ren & Stimpy as a kid's cartoon, felt it would be better suited in a non Children slot, with episodes being broadcast in the early evening and late at night, to serve the teenage/adult market, especial for its "Ultra violence and surreal humour".[1] Originally part of the DEF II strand, the First Episode was broadcast on 10 January 1994 on BBC Two,[1][2] along with the 11 other epsodies from the First and second series( on Monday at 18.25 and a repeat after midnight on a Friday)[1] By the end of its first run, the series had gained Cult status,[3] Rest of series 2 was broadcast from 9 May - 20 June 1995, at 19.10. When Series 3 and 4 and part of series 5 were broadcast between 2 January - 1 June 1996, the BBC continued to utilizes the early evening slot at 19.10 for the tone down version of Ren and stimpy, he rest of Series 5 between May - June 1997, with repeates continuling until 1998 Nickelodeon UK started the series in 1994 just after the BBC, and continued to broadcast the series until 2000, unlike the BBC episodes appeared all manner of the day.

[1] Joy, Joy, Joy!: STEVAN KEANE on America's last but one cartoon phenomenaKeane, StevanThe Guardian (1959-2003); Jan 8, 1994; ProQuest Historical Newspapers: The Guardian (1821-2003)

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2011/feb/11/the-ren-and-stimpy-show

[3] http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/television--hehheh-hehheh-hehheh-beavis-and-butthead-enjoy-sniffing-paintthinner-setting-fire-to-things-and-torturing-frogs-other-interests-television-bon-jovi-and-snot-typical-lads-according-to-john-lyttle-who-ahead-of-the-pairs-arrival-on-channel-4-takes-a-look-at-their-predecessors-and-ponders-the-appeal-of-never-growing-up-1432183.html

one comment was the "Sources are dubious too." never heard that abotu Two broadsheet newspapers. I'll admit its may be a but sloppy, but for some unknown reason even so I cant included Off line refs to the times either, --Crazyseiko (talk) 22:44, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

The dates are completely superfluous, but the sources are good. They could go in the reception section, you need to properly format the citations - no bare URLs, proper use of the cite template. I've added The Independent. "Joy, Joy, Joy" looks interesting, wish I could find it. IsaacAA (talk) 09:33, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Frank Zappa voiced the Pope in the episode Powdered Toast Man, he's credited on the intro of that episode.

It would be a nice addition to the article considering how big the two cults are — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.220.233.210 (talk) 02:54, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Re this edit by IsaacAA, though I think it's great that references were finally added for this, it strikes me that none of these are valid TV genres. We don't open the TV Guide and see "absurdist humor" in the primetime lineup. "Comedy" seems intuitive and easily referenced. "Animation" as well, although some feel this is not a genre. The microgenres—in this case the types of humor employed—seem best suited for inclusion in prose, not in the infobox, IMO. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:55, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree. IsaacAA (talk) 04:09, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

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In the Episodes section of this article is a list that is copied from the List main article using the {{:}} template. While the Season links in the List main article functions correctly (Pilot, 1, 2, 3, etc), the list that appears here in the Episodes section of this article doesn't function. This is a technical issue that is beyond my expertise, and I wish to bring it to the attention of someone whom knows how to correct this issue.
Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 04:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

The summary chart doesn't really belong in this article. It only adds a bunch of dates and not much else. I think it should just be removed. BrightRoundCircle (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

  AgreeI agree with your opinion, BrightRoundCircle (talk). Does anyone second this motion?
Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 05:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

There is previous consensus that the original run of the series is the Nickelodeon run which ended in 1995 with "A Scooter for Yaksmas". The first MTV run is regarded as a separate run. Before changing the dates, please discuss and reach consensus on the talk page. BrightRoundCircle (talk) 12:35, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Since there is no Wikipedia policy, guideline, or even a project page that defines what's an "original run" please defer to the existing consensus or create a new one through discussion. Bright☀ 17:52, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Somebody put stuff in the See Also part of this article that should be on the article for the show's spinoff. Note I am not an admin.--2602:304:5DDA:ED9:E527:718E:EECB:27E (talk) 14:25, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

The "issues" section is a huge chart that's half-empty and appears WP:INDISCRIMINATE. It should be presented with context or removed; perhaps if the comics are notable they could be put in their own article. BrightRoundCircle (talk) 14:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

I set the issues table to "collapsed" by default. BrightRoundCircle (talk) 17:16, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

"Ren & Stimpy, which in 1991-92 became the most popular US cable TV show ever" - Ben Thompson (March 20, 1994), "Farewell Bambi, hello Butt-head", The Independent.

Classicalfan626 why are you disputing this information? BrightRoundCircle (talk) 18:13, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

I've noticed that there might be some issues with past tense and future tense. Here's the current wording to the section so far:

Since it already happened, I'm thinking that it would be reworded to something like this.

I think it will solve some problems here, but we may need some input on what to do here. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I really hate the "it was announced", "on [date]", "it was said", all that passive voice is bad style, and MOS is pretty strongly worded against it. WP:SAY. Deadline Hollywood reported something in 2016, it doesn't mean it's the absolute truth. Everything in the section as it is currently worded is correct, according to the sources. Making it all a mess of "announced", "revealed", "confirmed" is detrimental to the style and the accuracy of the information. Bright☀ 13:26, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

I understand where your concerns are coming from. I have no argument with WP:SAY (we could also use "stated", "described", "wrote", "commented", and "according to" in addition to "said"). After all, we are striving to create, expand, and improve all articles to the highest degree possible. Still, I had some concerns about contractions in that section (like "doesn't" should be "does not"), so that's been fixed up. Also, I'm a little concerned about the "Bob Camp and Bill Wray, who worked on the original show..." wording, since those names might be a little redundant when they are first mentioned in the article (i.e. full name should be mentioned once or twice). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree. Bright☀ 14:12, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

The article was reverted to the 09:53, 2018 March 31 version, reverting several edits with the edit summary "Just because it's in a reliable source doesn't mean taking someone else's word as fact when it's contradicted by other sources." This edit is invalid for the following reasons:

1. The information is sourced and there are no other sources in the article that contradict it. I have edited the wording to reflect the source almost verbatim so the viewpoint is clearly and accurately attributed to Bob Camp. (WP:BIASED)
2. There are two intermediate fixes (1, 2) that remove uncited information that should not be restored without an inline reference to a reliable source. (WP:BURDEN)
3. There are two punctuation and readability fixes (1, 2) that should probably be kept, and in any case shouldn't be reverted for the wrong reason.

TheRealBoognish, points (2) and (3) should be obvious and the edits should not be reverted. Point (1) you're going to have to begrudgingly accept. Even if you don't trust Bob Camp, he is not making an outlandish statement here. He is an animator, he was involved in the creation and production of Ren & Stimpy, there's nothing unreasonable about what he says—that he pitched a Ren & Stimpy movie to Paramount and they rejected it because of Adult Party Cartoon. There's no reason to believe that Trent Parsley or ScreenGeek reported his words inaccurately. If you have a different reason to remove the material, please specify it. Bright☀ 06:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

• There is no evidence supporting Camp's claims. TheRealBoognish (talk) 09:17, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

That may be so, but that is not a condition necessary for citing a reliable source, whether it's Bob Camp, Trent Parsley, or ScreenGeek. If you are questioning the reliable-source-ness of this combination, you need an indication that it is WP:QUESTIONABLE or the like. As I explained above, nothing in the statement Camp makes is outlandish and there's no immediate reason to doubt Trent Parsely or ScreenGeek, so unless you can show that this particular source is unreliable, the reason for your objection is invalid. You can raise other objections, for example POV objections, but they too might be invalid because other sources have reported rumors of a movie, which corroborates Camp's claim to some degree, indirectly. Bright☀ 10:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

This is correct. The source directly makes this statement. As long as the proper context is given (According to Bob Camp) then its a perfectly acceptable statement to have in the article. Sergecross73 msg me 12:52, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

@Sjones23: I suspect Idrinkapplejuicies456 was trying to fixed their mistake, but they improperly implemented their fix in the template, since the template does not have an "animation production" or "animation services" variable. I believe they mistakenly assumed "company" refers to all companies working on the show, not just the production companies. At any rate, the template documentation states: Note: sub-contractors hired to perform production work, e.g. animation houses, special effects studios, post-production facilities etc. should not be included here, as this may create confusion about the nation(s) of origin. Instead, use sourced prose in the article's Production section to explain these details. Bright☀ 09:19, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

After those two women came forward against the original creator, I wonder if Nickelodeon has banned reruns of the show indefinitely?2600:6C50:7006:400:1541:C156:4D34:A295 (talk) 18:02, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

No, as it's still being rerun, and in any case adding such a statement to the article would require a source. Bright☀ 13:13, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

People are trying to distance Ren & Stimpy from John K, and one way is to cite Bob Camp as a co-creator. There's one reference that names all Spumco co-founders as creators, so I guess we'll go with that, despite all other references attributing the creation to John K alone. Bright☀ 06:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

See Manual of Style for a television show's nationality. Bright☀ 05:55, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• The Ren and Stimpy Show Title Card.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Ren & Stimpy Logo (1).png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Did quite a bit of digging for the flagged missing citations in this article. The citations deal with old distribution deals (VHS) or details of cut scenes or episodes from later releases. There is significant discussion of the missing content in forums, blogs and like, so the data appears to be accurate, but I could locate no official sources that would be acceptable for wiki citation. Technutt (talk) 15:26, 7 October 2019 (UTC)