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Latest comment: 2 months ago7 comments3 people in discussion
I don't understand the choice of the editors of this page : this artist has never been known as Letissier nor Héloïse Letissier, but as Christine and the Queens. Now, in september 2024, some french national medias (such as France TV[1], L'Équipe[2] or Libération[3]) refer to him as Rahim Redcar, as he wants to be named.[4] Why keeping using in the infobox and the body of the article this disrespectful and absolutely not used name « Letissier »? El Comandante (talk) 17:11, 16 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
There’s solid precedent for using an artist’s legal name in addition to their stage name in the first paragraph and infobox—see Halsey or Kendrick Lamar. But I agree, it’s extremely nonstandard to do so throughout the body of the article, and is extremely troubling in the case of a trans singer who changed his name two albums ago. This article should plainly be renamed Rahim Redcar and his legal name (assuming it’s not been changed) used as per the conventions used for cis singers with stage names. El Sandifer (talk) 03:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Having done a quick Google News search, it looks like all coverage of the new album is only mentioning Christine and the Queens in the “formerly known as” sense, so as per policy I am going to go ahead and do the Rahim Redcar move, and update the article text to use Redcar in place of Letissier everywhere but the infobox and first sentence. El Sandifer (talk) 03:39, 29 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago18 comments8 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Actually, I now see this was a unilateral undiscussed move by an editor back to the old name in violation of MOS:GENDERID and WP:MISGENDERer of the BLP in the move, so I've logged a RM/TR to revert the undiscussed move to the current title, which should likely make this RM moot once the page is restored back to Rahim Redcar in line with our policies where it already was for over a month, so this RM can probably be speedy closed after the revert as it will be the target of the proposed RM. Raladic (talk) 04:39, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Neutral - MOS:GENDERID makes sense here, however I have one reservation. This particular artist has (from my understanding) used several different pseudonyms when releasing music, so I'll I'd need to support is something that evidences this isn't just a one-off name for a single album, but rather an actual case of MOS:GENDERID. estar8806 (talk) ★05:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
As I posted above, all his social media (refer to his website at rahimredcar.com with links to all his updated social media accounts) has been updated, with his old ones deprecated and all recent news such as the Rolling Stone article above making it very clear that this change to Rahim Redcar is part of his coming out as a transgender man last year. Several other, more make it clear that the old name is left as "formerly known as" (FKA). Raladic (talk) 05:17, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
This Rahim Redcar rants: "I don't know what problem you have in refusing to call me by name" - Soirmag (also reported here with the screenshot of the instagram post) story here is probably the strongest hint of why MOS:GENDERID applies and thus the RM/TR is correct and this should be speedy closed per WP:RMEC under our WP:SNOW clause: I forgive those who denied my truth for three years now. I don't know what problem you guys have to refuse to call me by my name, it's Rahim Redcar. Those who are simply intolerant of someone finding out about their very soul and singing with their hearts to you can just leave. I hope Instagram will change the @ asap. No more of this renegade life, I don't deserve it. Those who like the music can stay; it's not a mall here, it's a dignified work of truth. Amen.Raladic (talk) 05:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Though it's true that he went through different pseudonyms, it seems this one is the most recent, and it seems it's been for awhile. This prologue under his current name exists since 2022, but I'm not sure if that's something you can change in such platforms. In any case, some pseudonyms he went through are now in his current pseudonym (Redcar, C (Chris or Claude(?)), Rahim), so it's not something entirely different or totally new. Web-julio (talk) 05:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Support - While I don't think this is a straightforward MOS:GENDERID case given that the current name of the page is a stage name, the gender element clearly makes this different to Jay-Z flip-flopping on hyphens and capitals. There was a period where Redcar publicly used a variety of stagenames in quick succession, at which point keeping the page at the common name could be justified. Redcar has now been using this new name (Rahim Redcar) for a considerable period of time, so it will be his WP:COMMONNAME going forward. For comparison, I note pages like Preoccupations, Lady A, Sea Power, and Soft Play are listed at the current names of those artists, not the names which are better supported and (presently) better known. I believe the Gender ID concerns more than outweigh the possibility that a new name may become more appropriate in the future. SCIAG (talk) 19:31, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Support. No justification to move back to the deadname. All official accounts on streaming platform use Rahim Redcar (or Rahim C Redcar) at least since his last album Hopecore. El Comandante (talk) 22:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Dismayingly, Apple Music (and possibly others) treat the two names as distinct artists. But that's neither here nor there for our purposes. SCIAG (talk) 21:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
