Talk:Polyamory

Hello, Polyamproud recently conducted a vote (to which 30,000+ people took part) to select a new polyamory pride flag. It has been added to the page, but only with primary sources: I suggest that we wait a little until there are press articles about this new flag. Right now, I do not think this flag meets the notability criteria. Skimel (talk) 21:57, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

 

I agree. It doesn't seem to meet the notability criteria and might only get there due to controversy. Most of the discussions on the /r/polyamory subreddit point at a flawed voting process with few people voting and no "none of the above" option. (e.g. [1], [2], [3]), it doesn't seem well accepted.

On the other hand I'm surprised not to see the pretty standard infinity heart symbol on this page. --Trougnouf (talk) 17:47, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

It needs secondary sources to be included and should otherwise be removed. Crossroads ^-talk- 21:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Reddit is WP:USERGENERATED content & using it as a citation violates the Wikipedia:Reliable sources guideline. I am going to remove the content based on that. Peaceray (talk) 23:53, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Done Peaceray (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think Reddit was used in the article, but the only citations were from the group that released the flag which is clearly not any better. Thanks. --Trougnouf (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

That may be true, but sources citing user generated content are basically recursively reflexively citing unreliable sources. At any rate, it is foolish & absurd to think that Reddit can decide what a flag is for the entire polyamorous community. Peaceray (talk) 00:20, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Along with the {{uw-nor1}} template, I have used this language to warn users who try to post the image of the Reddit flag:

Reddit is specifically designated as unreliable. 30,000 Reddit users, some of whom may not be polyamorous, do not get to decide for the rest of the substantially more numerous polyamorous community. It is definitely too soon for this flag to be notable.

Peaceray (talk) 17:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

While I think it is too soon for the new flag to be opted as the official one, the 30K+ votes were not by Reddit users but by an audience of mostly Instagram users and about 10K users that only signed up for the vote via email and not through Instagram.

The negative comments on Reddit are also predominantly made by users who haven't followed to process and make claims that are disproven on their Instagram page and website. Honema (talk) 17:43, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I will note that 30K+ is a small proportion of the estimated polyamorous community just for the US.^[1][2][3] Whatever forum in which the vote took place is perhaps inconsequential until we see an acceptance of this, or any flag, as representing the polyamorous community that is verified by reliable sources. Peaceray (talk) 18:00, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Also: WP:INSTAGRAM Peaceray (talk) 18:07, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

yes, agreed Honema (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I agree with you all that the opinion of Reddit users is irrelevant, just clarifying my point that most Reddit users seem to be against the flag. --Trougnouf (talk) 17:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

In the meanwhile, I have contacted the designer of the flag, Red Howell, who confirmed to me that it was released under a CC0 license. Skimel (talk) 19:35, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Is there any evidence of the flag actually in use in daily life? At events, parades, community meetings, shops, on books, in print, on flyers, or in any sense an organic, grassroots use of this symbol in real life? And how many polyamorous people would recognise what it was without being told?

It's just another proposed flag at this stage. It's misleading content for an encyclopedia article, because it misrepresents a casual reader into believing this is a recognised symbol in use. Wikipedia should not be used a as vehicle for advancing the goal of making this the flag by circular logic (it's the one which wikipedia says is official...therefore more people see it and use it...and so, in turn, it becomes official). We should postpone inclusion until there is evidence of it in common use, or whether it goes the way of all the other proposed poly flags.

If people do want to include it, maybe a section on polyamory symbol & flag controversy, which puts it into context as one of many proposals 2A02:C7F:8B91:8200:91CA:D1E7:F42F:69A8 (talk) 16:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Polyamory is an approach to relationships that emphasizes the possibility of having multiple meaningful connections with others without strictly focusing on sexual or romantic ties. It is a philosophy or lifestyle that recognizes and encourages the potential for emotional intimacy, love, and commitment in various forms, beyond the traditional monogamous framework. Polyamory can involve deep friendships, platonic partnerships, or chosen family relationships where individuals prioritize building connections based on emotional compatibility, mutual support, and shared values. The key aspect of polyamory is the acknowledgment and acceptance of multiple simultaneous relationships, which can be diverse in nature and dynamics, while respecting the consent and autonomy of all parties involved. 2600:8801:2205:7100:1C90:315:F758:CFFE (talk) 02:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

In the context of choosing to be monogamous with a polyamorous mindset, it means that an individual recognizes and understands the principles and values of polyamory but consciously decides to commit to a monogamous relationship. They may still embrace the idea of multiple meaningful connections and value the principles of open communication, honesty, and consent that are often associated with polyamory. However, they have personally chosen to prioritize and focus on a single romantic and/or sexual partnership at a given time, while maintaining respect for the concept of ethical non-monogamy.

In this context, choosing to be monogamous with a polyamorous mindset often involves open and honest communication with one's partner about desires, boundaries, and expectations regarding the possibility of other connections or attractions. It may also involve ongoing self-reflection and self-awareness to ensure that the decision to be monogamous aligns with one's own needs, values, and relationship goals. By consciously embracing a polyamorous mindset within a monogamous relationship, individuals can navigate their desires and emotions with greater understanding and ensure that their choices are rooted in consent, integrity, and the principles of ethical non-monogamy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlgorithmicMirrorOfRemeberance91 (talk • contribs) 02:27 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@darknessgoth777 would you mind explaining why a navbox which has this page as one of the listed entries should not be on this page so we can achieve a consensus on what to do? And can you do this here, rather than just immediately trying to reinsert your change? thanks in advance. --Licks-rocks (talk) 09:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi. This is not meant to be offensive at all. Polyamory is not considered a sexuality it's considered type of relationship. Therefore it's not a sexual identity nor is it apart of the LGBT community. LGBT is defined as the community for anyone who is not straight, not cisgender, not allosexual (asexual), and/or not alloromantic (aromantic). DarknessGoth777 (talk) 16:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

That doesn't mean it doesn't fall under the LGBTQ umbrella. Not everyone who is poly is queer, but polyamory draws in queer people and is seen as "non-monogamous approach to love and dating" and has appeared at pride parades. So it makes sense to include that navbox. Removing it would be doing a disservice to anyone who reads the polyamory page. Historyday01 (talk) 17:28, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Polyamory has been mistaken as a LGBT identity because it has a flag to represent it similar to how BDSM practices also have flags to represent them. But both are generally not considered part of the community due to the definition of LGBT. DarknessGoth777 (talk) 16:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

According to who? Who is saying polyamory isn't "generally not considered part of the community"? Historyday01 (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Therefore the flag meant to represent polyamory is not a pride flag because a pride flag is a flag that represents a gender, sexuality, or romantic orientation that is inherently part of the LGBT community. DarknessGoth777 (talk) 16:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

See, the main problem with that is that it's explicitly a pride flag. It has been designed and is being used as such. It's explicitly mentioned in the source we cite for the flag. So that, to begin with, is just not true. Polyamory has been part of pride rallies since forever, and as for your other edit, it "not being a sexual identity" depends on whom you ask, see for example this article on the subject. --Licks-rocks (talk) 17:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Exactly and it makes sense it has been part of pride rallies. Historyday01 (talk) 17:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. I STRONGLY oppose removing the Gender and sexual identities navbox from the bottom of the page. darknessgoth777 appears to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the LGBTQ community, which is unfortunate considering previous editing on LGBTQ topics by that user. Historyday01 (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I thought this was pertinent, plus it has links to many other sources. I do not have the time to incorporate it into this article at present, but I thought maybe some of you other editors might like do that.

• Requarth, Tim (2024-05-05). "Abandon What You Think You Know About Polyamory. There's Data". Slate Magazine. Retrieved 2024-05-07.

Peaceray (talk) 20:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Today I came across a study on compersion:

• Flicker, Sharon M.; Sancier-Barbosa, Flavia (2024). "Your Happiness Is My Happiness: Predicting Positive Feelings for a Partner's Consensual Extra-Dyadic Intimate Relations". Archives of Sexual Behavior. 53 (3): 941–958. doi:10.1007/s10508-023-02766-5. ISSN 0004-0002.

That study is behind a paywall, but there is a freely accessible article about it:

• Dolan, Eric W. (2024-05-04). "Study identifies key factors boosting compersion in non-monogamous relationships". PsyPost - Psychology News. Retrieved 2024-05-17.

I am at a film festival, so I am a bit busy this month & hoping someone else can attend to this. Peaceray (talk) 22:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

The full text is available through wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org for those who have access. Search for Feeling Good About Your Partners' Relationships: Compersion in Consensually Non-Monogamous Relationships & select the PDF Full Text link. Peaceray (talk) 22:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply