Talk:Ireland
Latest comment: 15 days ago by Jamesnp in topic Ireland is not a "British" isle
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Ireland is not a "British" isle
editthe term is a colonial and outdated one having been dug up from (by even then) archaic sources by one John Dee - an advisor to Elizabeth I of England, and who advocated for the colonisation of Ireland. Today it has no official standing and has no more relevance to Ireland than the term British East Africa has to modern day Kenya. And as such needs to be be kept in the dustbin of history where it belongs 109.78.105.250 (talk) 12:17, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is a geographical term for a group of islands. Nothing colonial here. The Banner talk 12:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- The now archaic term as detailed is colonial both in origin and use from the 1600s onwards. Denial doesn't change that regardless 51.37.111.212 (talk) 10:57, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Denial doesn't change the fact that it's absolutely a common geographical term, still in use in Ireland and elsewhere. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:04, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The now archaic term as detailed is colonial both in origin and use from the 1600s onwards. Denial doesn't change that regardless 51.37.111.212 (talk) 10:57, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Best we keep using it. GoodDay (talk) 13:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- yes 2402:E000:60A:656B:0:0:0:1 (talk) 19:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Best according to whom exactly - the same small number of self serving editors? 64.43.20.57 (talk) 01:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Best we keep using it. Denisarona (talk) 06:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- British Isles is an internationally recognised geographical term. It is used in educational textbooks in Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand etc.
- It's also in common use in Ireland, ignoring those whose lives revolve around politics
- Celebrity Cruises.IE
- https://www.celebritycruises.com/ie/destinations/european-cruises/british-isles-cruise
- AirBnB Ireland
- https://www.airbnb.ie/british-isles/stays/islands
- I could go on but I can't be bothered.
- It's common use in Ireland and ubiquitous use outside of Ireland. And, mind you, the 'revolt' against the term hasn't begun until Sinn Fein's recent electoral successes. 145.40.150.167 (talk) 22:28, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- @145.40.150.167 citing a cruise website and Airbnb is a new low, please remove the term its offensive, to the history of Ireland.
- A replacement term of IONA Ialands of the North Atlantic is much more inclusive. Daryl Mulvihill (talk) 07:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Read the rest of the page, and the archives. It's used by a lot more than AirBnB and some cruise site. You'll find, e.g., the link to the search results returned solely from gov.ie websites. The term is offensive to you, not to "the history of Ireland". We won, remember? IONA is mentioned here, but its use is tiny (possibly because it's offensive to Iceland, Greenland, and the Canaries, among others). BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 08:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is deeply disheartening when editors fail to properly evaluate evidence and persist in framing the world through their own cultural biases. The perspectives on this issue are clear: For most British people, the term is claimed to be purely geographical because they seem to have been told repeatedly in school that that is the case even though "from the very beginning, the expression “British Isles” was a deliberate attempt to give geographic legitimacy to the political ambitions of an expansionist English state"[1]. Among Irish people, the term is generally seen as wholly unacceptable. For people who understand the word "British", the term is clearly political. The Irish government’s official stance is that the term is neither used nor considered appropriate. Joint documents issued by the British and Irish governments affirm that the term is not acceptable, favoring alternatives such as “these islands.” The British government itself acknowledges that the term holds no official status. The evidence is clear; the term is contentious and disputed. Despite this, editors based in Britain continue to champion its use on Wikipedia, disregarding the controversy and the availability of more neutral alternatives. Why? Search for any reputable Irish publication, e.g. the Irish Times or the Journal and "British Isles" and every result is about how it's not appropriate: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-british-isles-1.26569 https://www.thejournal.ie/is-ireland-british-isles-northern-ireland-europe-islands-1140112-Oct2013/ https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2005-09-28/495/ https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio/2023/03/12/wild-isles-quibbles-about-our-british-isles-melt-away-in-the-face-of-david-attenboroughs-passion/ https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-to-say-britishness-is-authentic-while-denying-irishness-is-quaffing-ones-own-kool-aid-too-deeply-3276952-Mar2017/ Jamesnp (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
editThere is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Republic of Ireland which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
"Island"
editThis article is very clearly about the Irish nation as a whole, not merely the largest island of Ireland (the Irish mainland), so the lede's current wording of "Ireland is an island" is obviously incorrect. I fixed this with this edit, but @Canterbury Tail: reverted the edit, claiming that the fix was "confusing" with no explanation as to how, and suggested discussing it on the talk page.
So I have to ask- if not "nation", then what other term should be used to describe the whole nation of Ireland, consisting of all 32 Irish counties (including areas both on the Irish mainland and offshore islands)? Chessrat (talk, contributions) 18:03, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- The article is about the island and what is on it (plus subsidiary islands as is normal with any large island). It's not about the people, they're secondary. This isn't about the counties, it's about the landmass and all that exists and has existed on it. If it was about a nation we'd need to excise half the article as the concept of Irish as a nation is relatively new in historical terms and the geography, flora and fauna of it don't subscribe to this nationhood. Canterbury Tail talk 18:20, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think this is missing the point- this article is about all of Ireland, not just about the Irish mainland, so beginning the article with "Ireland is an island" is factually incorrect. It would be correct to say "Ireland has hundreds of islands"; it would not be correct to say "Ireland is an island consisting of hundreds of islands".
- By contrast, the Great Britain article makes it clear in the lede that Great Britain is an island but also that the term "Great Britain" can also refer to the political territory of England, Scotland and Wales, which includes their offshore islands. Chessrat (talk, contributions) 19:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- And this article also makes it clear that is also refers to the political territory of Ireland (Republic of) and Northern Ireland. But the article is pretty clear it's about the island and that there are other surround islands. It's perfectly normal in the world to discuss small islands surrounding larger ones in the same context, or those in rivers, lakes etc. Are we disputing that Ireland is an island now? Canterbury Tail talk 19:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- And mention of other islands can be removed if we feel necessary. Canterbury Tail talk 22:01, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- And this article also makes it clear that is also refers to the political territory of Ireland (Republic of) and Northern Ireland. But the article is pretty clear it's about the island and that there are other surround islands. It's perfectly normal in the world to discuss small islands surrounding larger ones in the same context, or those in rivers, lakes etc. Are we disputing that Ireland is an island now? Canterbury Tail talk 19:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
Languages
editBSL is also used in NI 81.98.11.143 (talk) 21:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Population
editAs of 2024, population of island would be just over 7.3 million with 5.38m in the Republic and 1.92m in the north. 2A02:8084:1A1:D600:7409:BB4D:E074:6AC5 (talk) 23:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
- How do you know that? Bazza 7 (talk) 12:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- official CSO estimates. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2024/keyfindings/ Ire619 (talk) 16:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's just an estimate, keep to actual official census figures. Canterbury Tail talk 17:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Why? It’s an official estimate which are included in many other country wikipedia articles. I also don’t remember talking to you Ire619 (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Um anyone can post on a talk page. You posted on a public talk page of a public article. Canterbury Tail talk 17:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Why? It’s an official estimate which are included in many other country wikipedia articles. I also don’t remember talking to you Ire619 (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's just an estimate, keep to actual official census figures. Canterbury Tail talk 17:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- official CSO estimates. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2024/keyfindings/ Ire619 (talk) 16:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2024
editThis edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please do not use “the British isles”. It is not a geographical term. It is an outdated geopolitical term. The Irish government has explicitly stated that it should no longer be used to refer to Britain and Ireland as a whole in any capacity. 2001:BB6:287C:8E00:59B9:484D:25A7:6015 (talk) 08:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Not done. You didn't specify an exact replacement, this had been discussed above (#Ireland is not a "British" isle) and wider changes could be implemented also which is out of scope of a simple edit request (eg are you suggesting a rename of the article British Isles, Category:British Isles etc?). There is a note in the article about the use of "British Isles" and a link to Names of the British Isles.--Commander Keane (talk) 12:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)