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Talk:Channel One Russia

Latest comment: 2 days ago by EmperorOtherstuff in topic Requested move 19 December 2024
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Requested move

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Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Channel One (Russian TV channel) → Channel One Russia – Their own website calls it Channel One Russia, not just Channel One. http://eng.1tvrus.com/history I couldn't move it myself because it already exists as a redirect. Digifiend (talk) 02:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I created Let's Get Married (TV series)

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I made Let's Get Married (TV series). Moscowamerican (talk) 23:11, 17 April 2016 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Baltic?

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Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

There is nothing about its operation in the Baltics? Kaihsu (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/10/24/latvian-television-channel-fined-for-showing-state-run-russian-tv-broadcasts-a40732

https://m.youtube.com/user/PBKNEWS/about

https://www.baltictimes.com/russian-language_first_baltic_channel_most_fined_tv_station_in_latvia_last_year/ Kaihsu (talk) 19:45, 11 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Propaganda

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Latest comment: 2 years ago12 comments4 people in discussion

Recently, my edits describing Channel One as a propaganda channel have been reverted by 2 users. This is despite the fact that many RS support the claim that Channel One is a propaganda channel. Fijipedia (talk) 19:59, 16 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Your sourcing is very weak. You use a CNN analysis (see: WP:NEWSORG) which discusses propaganda on state TV but doesn't call it a "propaganda channel", the second source from the Atlantic doesn't even have the word "propaganda" in the article. Moreover, these are about the news programs. Even RT which is certainly created for the sole purpose of propaganda doesn't have "propaganda network" in the first sentence. It's not something to be stated in wikivoice. Previously you used articles which quoted Ovsyannikova for your refs here, so you should really work on sourcing first. Mellk (talk) 00:52, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Do you have any sources for it not being propaganda? No, you probably don't. The Atlantic not explicitly calling it propaganda doesn't change the fact that they described it as one. And the CNN source may be an analysis, but CNN is still an RS and the analysis got input from experts.
And in RT's article, it states "RT has regularly been described as a major propaganda outlet for the Russian government and its foreign policy." We could say instead that Channel One has been regularly described as a propaganda channel instead of just straight up calling it a propaganda channel. Fijipedia (talk) 02:03, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Do you have any sources for it not being propaganda? I think you fail to understand WP:V. If you do not have adequate sourcing, then it cannot be included, especially in wikivoice. The Atlantic not explicitly calling it propaganda doesn't change the fact that they described it as one — how did they describe it as a propaganda channel if the word "propaganda" is not present in the article. This becomes WP:OR. The RT article has heaps of RS describing it as a propaganda medium, including scholarly. So if you can find various RS that explicitly describe Channel One as a propaganda channel as a whole and present them, then such a paragraph can be added. But with what we have now, it is not possible. Mellk (talk) 02:12, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Also, RT is different in that it focuses on news (for mainly foreign audiences) while Channel One is a generalist channel. Mellk (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Honestly, I don't think you understand WP:OR. Also, RT is different in that it focuses on news (for mainly foreign audiences) while Channel One is a generalist channel. Do you have any RS to support that claim? Fijipedia (talk) 02:33, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
You made a conclusion from the source which is not stated by the source. And earlier you tried WP:FINDSOURCESFORME. I asked you to find RS for what you wanted to add to the article, now you are asking me to find sources for something I am not trying to add to the article. Why? Mellk (talk) 02:54, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
I concur strongly with Mellk: There are some external broadcasters like France24 and BBC World Service that were created for the literal purpose of influencing foreign public opinion, and they aren't even labeled as propaganda in the lede; Often, if there is such an accusation, it isn't stated as a statement of objective fact, but a disputed point of contention as introduced by some scholar, NGO, government, or social organisation that allows itself to be challenged (e.g, "2+2=4" is a proof-positive statement that cannot be dissected since it is indisputably true; The same cannot be said for Channel One being propaganda). Ergo, not only will you need to go fishing for a better source if you want to include such a statement, but you'll have to find a source that isn't a political editorial (a diatribe of yellow journalism by Olga Khazan titled "I watched Russian TV so you don't have to" is one of the sources you included, but it is hardly worthy of inclusion on a serious encyclopedia as it makes no effort to establish even a baseline of objectivity towards veracity[1]) or that isn't hyperbolic with its claims. PeaceThruPramana26 (talk) 23:37, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
I'm not sure if citing a half-century-old academic paper could be considered a valid source for referring to today's BBC as propaganda, but whatever you say. The Kip (talk) 20:54, 19 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Has the scope of the BBC World Service changed? Does it still receive funding from the FCO? If nothing has changed, then the paper is still valid, and criticising the age of the paper is merely a strawman at that point. PeaceThruPramana26 (talk) 05:33, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
While its scope and funding may not have changed (or it may have, I'm not entirely sure), the world around it has. Britain no longer has an empire and holds a shadow of its former power, and with it, BBC has evolved into a neutral broadcaster; nobody is going to claim that the PBS or even Doordarshan of 1960 is exactly the same as those of today. At a certain age, academic (or any) sources fail to apply to modern circumstances, and an imperial-era source reflecting the BBC's imperial-era aims no longer applies when said imperial era is long in the past. Simply claiming "well, [x background factor] has not changed, so this is still entirely valid" wholly ignores the pressures and changes of the outside world. But again, whatever you say. The Kip (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Dear PeaceThruPramana26, your note stating why my second source is not reliable is simply factually incorrect. "Every third word" is a hyperbole and meant to represent what is being talked about on Channel One, which is explicitly mentioned in the article. I know you acknowledged that argument in your note, but the article having a hyperbolic quote does not make it an unreliable source. And I can concede that the second source wasn't the best, but the first source (the CNN source) directly calls it a propaganda channel and gets input from experts. That confirms that it has been described as a propaganda outlet by many. Fijipedia (talk) 23:18, 21 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Notes

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^ As a demonstration of why this particular sort of political editorial isn't an acceptable source, one can read the following line from the article: “Every third word [on Russian state television] is Ukraina, America, NATO,” says Bakhti Nishanov, a senior policy advisor at the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe." Khazan uses this frivolous quote to describe *all* Russian media, including Channel One. However, one can go on youtube or the website right now and see that, objectively-speaking, These aren't "every third word" and that this quote is patently false. Now, a defense may be that such a statement is hyperbolic; but that only illustrates perfectly why such an article is not useful on an encyclopedia due to its editorialising and hyperbolic treatment of objectivity)

1938?

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Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

A little bit confused why it says they were founded in 1938 because whilst public programming in the Soviet Union on Channel 1 in Moscow did commence, I know that Channel One (Then known as Channel 1 Ostankino) replaced Soviet Programme One on 27 December 1991… Wonder if anyone could tell me what’s actually going on? O tempo voa (2nd Account) (talk) 18:00, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 19 December 2024

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Latest comment: 2 days ago6 comments6 people in discussion

Channel One Russia → Channel One (Russia) – The channel's name is just "Channel One" or "First Channel" (Первый канал in Russian). Having "Channel One Russia" as a title is more confusing too, since another channel is called "Russia-1". BilletsMauves€500 16:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 02:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

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