User talk:Petergriffin9901/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Petergriffin9901. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I've done it :) Jayy008 (talk) 13:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Is Hung Median a valid site for cover artwork? Or they uploaded by the public? They've got like 4 different covers for Angels Cry. I prefer them because it's not got Ne-Yo on, maybe we could make Angels Cry the actual Angels Cry and have a cover for the norm and cover for the remix and separate chart positions on page for remix and normal. Jayy008 (talk) 15:09, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Got it, I'm just curious if the ones on Hung Median are official too? Jayy008 (talk) 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC) (PS, ya welcome).

Ahhh I don't know, because I don't know if they're uploaded by the public :/ Jayy008 (talk) 12:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Peter, I don't have the books anymore but I will tell you what I know.

All Belgian albums/singles certifications since 1997 are available online. Here are all Mariah certifications in Belgium since 1997: Butterfly - gold link, #1's - 1x platinum link, Rainbow - gold link, "When You Believe" - 1x platinum link.

New Zealand: here is the information directly from RIANZ. Some time ago RIANZ just anwsered the e-mails asking about certifications:
Mariah Carey - 4x platinum, Emotions - 1x platinum, MTV Unplugged - 2x platinum, Music Box - 5x platinum, Merry Christmas - 2x platinum, Daydream - 5x platinum, Butterfly - 1x platinum.
And since January 1999 you can check the certifications in the charts archive (I'm using the last date an album/single was on the chart):
#1's - 1x platinum week 04.04.1999, Rainbow - gold week 05.03.2000, Greatest Hits - gold week 17.03.2002, The Emancipation of Mimi - 1x platinum week 31.10.2005, "Heartbreaker" - 1x platinum week 06.02.2000, "We Belong Together" - gold week 03.10.2005.

Australia: this information is from an ARIA member, all Mariah albums certifications before 1997:
Mariah Carey, 2x platinum
Emotions, 1x platinum
MTV Unplugged, 1x platinum
Music Box, 11x platinum
Merry Christmas, 3x platinum (certified 4x platinum in 2008)
Daydream, 5x platinum

I did not pay attention to the informations regarding Mariah singles certifications in New Zealand and Australia. Mariahdaily have them on their website but I don't know their source. Maybe you should e-mail them. Max24 (talk) 11:28, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think MDJ journal should be allowed for sources, with a Billboard.Biz subscription for a start, it makes them reliable for facts, they've never been wrong with the facts, I think we should argue that it could be used. Jayy008 (talk) 23:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd bring it up with EricOrbit because he's an admin, even though Kww is better suited for musical issues. Once you've posted, I'll post my support, I'm sure Lil-Unique will support this too! Jayy008 (talk) 23:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

It's a shame, I really think he should be and okay let me know when it's done! :) Jayy008 (talk) 23:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Done :) Jayy008 (talk) 23:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

So far, things have been going so much better than the last time, I've been happy. There really wasn't any need for this. Even if you feel a need to defend me, there are better times and places. Please don't let this turn into a public battle between you and Journalist.—Kww(talk) 05:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello! The one who should be blocked is you. I put an official source from Britney Spears' official site. I have watched that article for almost a year and you are not changing something that has been stipulated before. The source I give is from BRITNEY SPEARS' OFFICIAL SITE updated LAST YEAR. If you continue the vandalism, you'll be blocked. Genieofmusic(talk) 14:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Haha girl, I'm not afraid of you and I never said I've been around here for over a year. Your source is not reliable, and in The Singles Collection blooklet it says Britney has sold 65 million ALBUMS, just count. You're so pathetic when you say "In The Zone" has sold over 10 million copies when according to its certifications it barely gets to 6 million. It's noticeable you don't know about music, and if you continue with the Vandalism, you will be blocked from editing. You are not gonna change what it's been decided already for years. Genieofmusic(talk) 15:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on him.—Kww(talk) 16:01, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I didn't change anything...it was an user called Genieofmusic who is a fan of Christina Aguilera and uses britney.com as a reference...the problem is that I've been protecting Britney's page since early 2009 and he was always there... And in the changes of look of the page...I'm sorry, but it looked tidier in the other way, that's why I reverted it back...sorry..but your edits are great and I think that what you wrote are her real sales:) please forgive me for doing that...I won't do it again, and the references i didn't changed them, some of the used references which are used now are mine...like the one saying that BOMT sold 25 million, and the one saying that Blackout sold 3.1 million is mine too... When I saw the previous sales that were before you came to the page, I just changed it from 6,000,000, to 6 million, but i never deleted your reference. I hope we forget about this missunderstanding and we become friends:) We need to protect her page from other artists fans, who lower britney sales... my regards, --GenieOFbritney (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The Christina Aguilera fan keeps vandalising Britney Spears Discography...the user Genieofmusic... what should we do? --GenieOFbritney (talk) 22:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Petergriffin9901, Genieofmusic, GenieOFbritney: In light of the recent edit-warring, most Britney Spears articles are now at full protection for one week. The three of you need to go to a talk page, argue this issue out, and settle it. The edit warring must stop. If any of you fail to discuss the issue and proceed to edit war after the protection is lifted, you can expect blocking editors to be my next step.—Kww(talk) 22:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Nope, I'm seeing her tomorrow (Whitney) and yes I will give u a review too (honest! ha)! :D and Unique hasn't seen A Keys yet, he's seeing her on May 25th, my birthday, I couldn't get tix in time, it sucks lol. Jayy008 (talk) 23:13, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I was at the show the following night, I give it 7/10. I had a great time and she's an amazing entertainer, the only issue was the voice towards the end of the night, I blame her, because she pushes herself too hard and sounds like she's growling. I Look To You was flawless as always, Greatest Love Of All - Amazing, How Will I Know - Deffo my favourite, so much energy, everyone was dancing and singing along so loud! Everything else was brilliant except I Will Always Love You - disaster - she has done that much better since her comeback, Saving All My Love For You - over raspy, awful and finally I Didn't Know My Own Strength I had to love because it's my fav but again GROWLED lol. Jayy008 (talk) 09:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome, but I agree, she'd definitely not the same as she used to be! Jayy008 (talk) 19:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The documentation is at {{cite book}}. It's pretty detailed. Let me know if you have a specific question.—Kww(talk) 00:03, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

he keeps lowering britney sales discography:( what should we do? we tried to talk to him but he doesn't listen to us:( please help- thanks.--GenieOFbritney (talk) 20:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Has he reverted any of the sales figures that I specifically warned the three of you to discuss?—Kww(talk) 03:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

3 day block.—Kww(talk) 03:27, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Stop calling editors that you have content disputes with "vandals". I blocked Genieofmusic for edit warring, not vandalism. I see nothing about his edits that strikes me as being vandalism. I don't see any evidence that his intent is to change content with the motivation of damaging the encyclopedia. He simply disagrees with you. He's allowed to. His failure is a failure to talk, and it's harder to talk when all of you keep calling the others vandals.—Kww(talk) 03:39, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't care much for either source. Fansite vs. merchant site, neither with what I would call a reputation for accuracy. If those were the only choices I had, I'd probably side with Genieofmusic, as I tend to believe the lower numbers. There should be better sources out there.—Kww(talk) 04:43, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I tend to go for the lower numbers because all of these sites tend to inflate figures to make what they are selling (either the artist's image or a ticket) look more attractive. Merchant sites as a rule aren't all that much better than fansites: I don't trust Amazon, for example, for anything beyond release details, and certainly wouldn't use them as a source for sales.—Kww(talk) 15:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Omg... i feel so embarressed about that! =( Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to know your opinion to this matter! [1]. Thanks! Reidlos (talk) 22:48, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, here's the explanation :-)

Falling into You

The link leads directly to a scan of newspaper called Dernière Heure (page 8 of the issue from January 4, 1997). It contains Sony Music sales numbers and certifications of Falling into You till mid-December 1996. But you have to register to see it (it's free). The format of this reference can be changed without giving the direct link and just leaving the data of the newspaper.

Let's Talk About Love

The same here. The link leads to a scan of newspaper called Le Lundi from May 9, 1998 (page 8). It contains certifications of Let's Talk About Love and some sales numbers till mid-April of 1998. Again, you have to register to see it (it's for free). We can also change the format of this reference, cut the link and just leave the newspaper data.

I'm sure that both albums sold more in all of these countries, as Falling into You was also very successful in 1997 and Let's Talk About Love was still selling in 1998. But I don't know any more updated sources. Max24 (talk) 09:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

When you are registered on your computer to this forum, just click on the links from the Wikipedia artciles. They lead directly to the scans. Max24 (talk)11:23, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I assume you're talking about the Let's Talk About Love source. There are no charts, just certifications. "1 fois platine" means "1 x platinum", not #1 on the chart. The newspapers are considered a reliable source in general. Max24 (talk)22:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I can make two tables: one for peak positions and other for certifications. Agreed? Max24 (talk) 01:26, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I know that you meant well, but you must be more careful with your edits. For some reason in the Falling into You article you have put all links to the Let's Talk About Love album charts. Alss in that article you have removed completly the Dutch certification and in the Let's Talk About Love you have changed it to gold? I have fixed all that. I have also removed all the "n/a" charts now that we have 2 tables.

Go ahead and change the tables in Celine's articles but could you do it in the format I have changed both Falling into You and Let's Talk About Love articles? I'm talking about links to the providers (not separate in the brackets but linking the country name). Max24 (talk)13:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Remmember Genieofmusic?? he is back :( he already changed all Britney sales to what the Blog says :( what can we do?? when we tried to talk to him he ignored us...and he will keep ignoring us. please help me. --GenieOFbritney (talk) 20:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

He's blocked.—Kww(talk) 20:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand why you are so jelaous with Madonna. I undid your edits, because its entire page has been tagged unsourced, so why don't you remove all contents??? And also, I never MADE THAT CLAIMS, please check the page's history. Bluesatellite (talk) 12:45, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey Petergriffin9901 wat up.? since your the one here who have contributed much of Mariah's aricles why don't you make a legacy page of Mariah Carey here are some reasons of mine which could help you. I am not good at finding sources maybe you can since your expert at this stuffs.

First of all let us not forget those Pop Rap collaborations and the legacy of Vision of Love and how she influences the entire contestants of American Idol and Singing competitions. And one of the most influential singers in the world(need sources). And also popularizing the use of whistle register into a new level and in mainstream and the trend to use melismas. Also don't forget those short skirts that she was listed worst dress. Also the Rolling Stones, MTV's best voices and any other magazines like that that she was listed. I think Christina Aguilerra, Beyonce, Britney Spears, Nelly Furtado, Kelly Clarkson, Leona Lewis, Jordin Sparks, Brandy, Charice, Rihanna, Jojo, and others were influenced by Mariah we just need reliable sources or videos or maybe we make websites about it. The hollywood walk of fame and her classic All I want for Christmas Is You which is played and charts almost every year. I'm thinking her philanthropic activities and "other activities" section should be merged with her Legacy Page. I don't know how. I hope you can do it.! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.55.80.21 (talk) 14:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

According to Guinness World Records, Michael Jackson is the most successful entertainer of all time. http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/mediazone/pdfs/entertainment/061114_michael_jackson.pdf Guinness is a reliable source. Why remove that info? SJ(talk) 23:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If the edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.

You two need to chat it out. You are right that many articles contain such figures, he's right that the article doesn't suffer from not having them, and they aren't a particularly necessary addition. I would strongly object to your precision level: 50.8 million and 52.6 million is sufficiently precise and needs updating much less frequently.—Kww(talk) 02:57, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Peter, please don't add Mariah Carey to the introduction in the Celine Dion albums discography article. This is an article about Dion, not Carey. I will agree with you if you add this to Carey article: "Carey has sold more than 175 million albums, singles and videos worldwide, becoming one of the best-selling female artist of all-time, after Celine Dion who has sold 200 million albums." Max24(talk) 18:25, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

It's been added to the pending changes trial, which is similar to semi-protection because anonymous edits don't show until a registered editor approves. See WP:Pending changes.—Kww(talk) 03:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

• Hi Peter, I've been absent a couple of days from wikipedia so I didn't join the discussion. Maybe next time. Bye! Angel (talk) 22:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

If you wish to add claims to the lead on the Mariah Carey then please cite appropriately. Citing primary sources is always problematic, especially when they make no attempt to prove their claims. Expressions such as "of all time" are also not neutral (what other time could we be talking of?). Re-adding your edits without any attempt to discuss or justify them (other than telling other editors to STOP, because you don't agree) is not helpful and how edit warring occurs. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Please, assume good faith. It is difficult to reach consensus on something if your response to questions are simply "I don't agree" or accusing others of ownership. Consensus requires discussion. You have been reverted a number of times on your additions here. Please discuss and actually explain what you want to add and why, before re-adding. You might find it useful to read this essay here on what should be done when you find your additions are being reverted. The answer is not to simply keep putting them back in and demand that others justify taking them out.

As I've explained, phrases like "of all time" are superfluous and not neutral. Also adding claims from press releases on Carey's own website or own record label is citing from primary sources, which is not a good idea on so bold a claim when there are no figures to back it up. What would be far more neutral and factual would be to state the figures. These tell the reader how successful Carey is, adding unsupported claims like "best selling of all time" doesn't make her any more significant, it just makes the article look like a fanpage. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Further response on my talk page. Thanks.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 13:07, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

No other words than to warn you for such language and name calling here. You are a much experienced editor now, and should know better than to get into silly fan wars in Wikipedia. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The source from November 2009 - Carey's official website says: ""All I Want For Christmas is You" was the leading single from Mariah's 1994 Merry Christmas album, selling 11 million copies worldwide on it's way to becoming one of the best selling Christmas album of all time!"

You have found an older source - Foxnews.com from March 2008 saying "The album became the most successful Christmas album of all time", and added it to the article.

No serious source says that "Merry Christmas" is the best selling Christmas album in the world. However it is definitely one of the best selling Christmas albums.

I have reverted your changes; want more proof that Carey's album is not best selling Christmas album? For example as Billboard is saying, Elvis Presley has sold 12 million copies of his album in the U.S. alone. Carey has sold 11 million worldwide.

And one more thing: You shouldn't link to "Bestselling Christmas/holiday albums in the United States" article but change the text to "most successful Christmas album of all time", as it is misleading. Max24(talk) 22:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Please comment at User talk:Kww#Merry Christmas. Max24's argument seems pretty sound to me, and I want to hear your side.—Kww(talk) 15:08, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

You've been reported for edit warring at WP:AN3#User:Petergriffin9901 reported by User:TEK (Result: ). To avoid sanctions, you should respond there are promise to stop warring on this article. EdJohnston (talk) 18:35, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You have been blocked for a period of twenty-four hours for edit-warring on Mariah Carey. To contest this block, please reply here on your talk page by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} along with the reason you believe the block is unjustified, or email the blocking administrator. For alternative methods to appeal, see Wikipedia:Appealing a block. -- tariqabjotu 21:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Petergriffin9901 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

Im just going to say it straight out. If you look at the history of the page, I was the editor who stopped reverting and asked for admin help. While I did revert for a while, I did stop and was the bigger person. I feel that since I made an effort to stop the 3 revert and actually requested assistace, I shouldnt be blocked.

Decline reason:

At 18:05, you were given the chance to comment at the AN3 report. You didn't. 3 hours later you were therefore blocked. Although I acknowledge that we're not all here 24/7, I feel you had been handed the appropriate place to discuss prior to the block. As this is a very short 24hr block, you'll be able to catch up on some of the research you've been putting off (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Keep this up, and you will wind up facing blocks again. Please calm down.—Kww(talk) 04:06, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Just so you understand: there are no policies against profanity. Calling someone an "idiot" or a "fool" is against policy, and doing so multiple times can get you blocked. People can use profanity all they want as long as it isn't used to attack another editor.—Kww(talk) 17:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Please be aware that you and Bluesatellite (talk · contribs) are both skating on thin ice. Both parties are engaging in an edit war and steadily on your way to breaching WP:3RR, even while discussion is taking place on the talk page which you're taking part of. Either drop the reverts or revert yourself into a block. Should I find a third and fourth revert by you or Bluesatellite, the offending parties will be blocked for violating 3RR. — ξ^xplicit 05:26, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello Peter Griffin,

The sources I added really describes her range, it gives her lowest and highest notes. Billboard claim is very vague, it gives anything about her lowest and highest notes. You can't claim she possesses a five-octave vocal range when there are reliable sources that say otherwise. I have read on your page that you are a fan of Mariah. Your fanaticism should not affect your contributions. You absolutely believe that Mariah possesses five octaves, but here we are on Wikipedia, you must objectively observe that there are reliable sources that contradict Billboard. I'm also a huge fan of Mariah Carey, but on Wikipedia, we must be objective and impartial. F6Coloratura80 (talk) 10:37, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

It's Mariah Carey herself wo claim to be an alto with a five octave vocal range in Entertainment Weekly's interview and then she contradict herself, saying "I don't even know what my vocal range is" in the 2003 interview with The Sydney Morning Herald. Please stop with it.F6Coloratura80 (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Peter, it looks to me like F6Coloratura80 has added decent references to support a reasonable claim, while incorporating the fairly laughable claim from Billboard into the article (a 5-octave range is pretty much impossible, by the way, so it's very hard to take the Billboard claim seriously). Note that the range F6Coloratura80 has sourced for her includes notes in five octaves (C3, C4, C5, C6, C7 and then a few notes to either D7 or F7), and that's probably the source of Billboard's error. She'd have to make it to C8 (or down to D2) to truly have a five octave range. D2 is the D string on a bass guitar, C8 is so high that I don't know an instrument that can do it. BTW, it takes four reverts to violate 3RR.—Kww(talk) 17:42, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Take a look at the text at the bottom: "This is the "GNU Free Documentation License" reference article from the English Wikipedia." You cannot use a Wikipedia mirror as a source for a Wikipedia article.—Kww(talk) 20:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello Peter! I come here to say my apology for our "longtime disagreement". I realized that I'm so rude in our past discussion both regarding Madonna and Mariah. You have no more dispute with Legolas, right? and I wanna be like that. Don't get me wrong, you may dislike Madonna, but actually I love Mariah :) and I have here on my music player (only her 1990s ballads, I hate hip-hop Mariah, uhh...) That's why I never destroy anything on Mariah's, just keeping her sales from fake source (ticketspecialist.com??) I hope you want to forget our 'silly dispute'. Regards Bluesatellite (talk) 00:55, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh ya, I see you're now trying to improve Legacy section on Mariah Carey. Rather than mentioning all her chart milestone, I suggest you to add more critical and scholar coments and analysis about Mariah, you can search on http://books.google.com, I think there are many there. Also rather than claiming 'best-selling female artist of all time', better writing that Mariah is the biggest-selling female artist of 1990s decade (she defeated Celine, Madonna, Whitney). Bluesatellite (talk) 03:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I have added some info about Mariah's impact on pop music. Btw, I did not write Madonna's legacy section :P, that's Legolas great job! Bluesatellite (talk) 07:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Your latest edits to Mariah Carey discography included yet another Wikipedia mirror that said right on the page that it was a Wikipedia mirror. I do not want to see that again. Please stop changing figures in these articles without discussing the changes on talk pages first and getting other editors to agree that the sources you are using are reasonable.—Kww(talk) 17:23, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I notices your question at Blusatallite's talk page, I thought I'd clear things up for you. Madonna's certified sales was put together by me. We should only include figures found in certification-database, not the figures found in the database of million sellers for RIAJ. Note that the Japanase certification database starts from July 2003, but their Million Seller database (which is not a certification database) starts from 1989. The Japanese certification-award-levels since the summer of 2003 have been for Domestic and Foreign releases: Gold=100,000 (Albums, Singles, Videos) Platinum=250,000 (Albums, Singles, Videos), Diamond=1,000,000 (Albums, Singles, Videos), see the following sources for Japan's certification-award-levels in the following sources [2], [3]. Everything that RIAJ certification-database includes for Madonna after July 2003 is:

• American Life: Gold =100,000
• Confessions on a Dance Floor: 2x Platinum=500,000
• Hard Candy: Platinum-250,000
• Best All the Time Celebration Gold=100,000

Total: 950,000

I hope that cleared things up for you. Cheers.--Harout72 (talk) 21:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

If we were to do the same for Mariah Carey (I think she's a little far from that point though), we should again only use the figures coming from the certification-database. Not the million seller database. However, any of her albums that has been released in or after 2003 and has gone platinum enough times to appear as a million seller then, it will also automatically be in the certification database indicated as X album (for example) 4x platinum (if it's been released in or after 2003 as later level for platinum was 250,000) or 5x platinum (if it's been released before that as earlier level was platinum-200,000).--Harout72 (talk) 23:56, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

By th way, I just finished going over RIAJ's Million Seller database, and Madonna doesn't seem to have anything that has sold over 1 million units between 1989 and now. But, yes you are right about Carey, she has four albums and one single that have sold over 1 million units in Japan. After July 2003, one Platinum (250,000) on Mimi and one Gold (100,000) on Chapter 2, E = MC2 ~ MIMI-LP (not sure if it's a box set released in the Japanese market).--Harout72 (talk) 00:31, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know, Madonna has one "Million" seller in Japan (The Immaculate Collection). But, I'm not familiar with Japanese certification database, so I can not prove it. Bluesatellite (talk) 03:00, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, this is all RIAJ's Million Seller database contains :

• Single: "For Christmas"= 1 million
• Album: Merry Christmas= 1 Million
• Album: Dream Day=1 Million
• Album: Butterfly=1 Million
• Album: The Ones=1 Million

The reason why I don't want to use these is because the column at List of best-selling music artists does state Available Certified Sales, and these are not exactly certifications. But let it come to that point when we have to think about moving Carey into the main table. We might make a footnote of some sort and state the "Million Seller" is a database directly coming from RIAJ, which includes sales based on earlier certifications. By the way, Carey's available certified sales based on the same markets that we used for Madonna is 115.6 million including the Japan's certifications and Million Sellers. So she's still not close to having sold 300 million records. --Harout72 (talk) 03:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to be rude but I see mistakes within your calculations, let me do the certification part:) and of course I will give you a detailed information on everything that you may have doubts/questions about. And it is very important that you understand a few very important points before we continue our discussion. This is your statement Next, she has 12 "Million" (in total counting 1x, 2x, 3x)" and 3x Platinum and 2x Gold albums and singles in Japan, now let's talk about this so there won't be any misunderstanding later on between us. Japan's RIAJ certification-database which starts since July 2003 includes for Carey the following:

• Mimi: Platinum= 250,000
• Chapter 2, E = MC2 ~ MIMI: Gold=100,000

Now that is all the certifications that Japan's certification-database contains for Carey since July 2003 until now. It is also important that you understand the difference between the certification-database and the Million-seller database, these two are entirely different things, the latter doesn't work based on Platinum/Gold awards, just 1 million figures. Having said that, the Million-seller database contains the following:

• Single: "For Christmas"= 1 million
• Album: Merry Christmas= 1 Million
• Album: Dream Day=1 Million
• Album: Butterfly=1 Million
• Album: The Ones=1 Million

Now, our total for Carey, coming from Japan (RIAJ) is 5,350,000. We don't have any 12 million figure. We can only use what the Platinum/Gold awards from the music associations, RIAA, BPI, Bundesverband Musikindustrie, RIAJ etc. represent, and I may make an exception for the Million-Seller figures from RIAJ and include those when it comes to moving Carey into the main table (far from it though it seems). Now let's proceed to US market (RIAA) and also the rest of the markets which have certified sales for Carey:

• US certified sales: 64,500,000 Albums, 22,700,000 Singles, 700,000 Videos (Total of 87,900,000 certified records)
• UK certified sales: 5,000,000 Albums, 800,000 Singles (Total of 5,800,000 certified records)
• German certified sales: 2,500,000 Albums, 1,000,000 Singles (Total of 3,500,000 certified records)
• French certified sales: 3,400,000 Albums, 1,250,000 (Note that we are to use the figures based on certifications not the actual sales figures) (Total of 4,650,000 certified records)
• Australian certified sales: 665,000 Albums, 350,000 Singles (total of 1,015,000 certified records)
• Canadian certified sales: 3,750,000 Albums, 5,000 Singles, 5,000 Videos (Total of 3,760,000 certified records)
• Brazilian certified sales: 735,000 Albums, 85,000 DVDs (Total of 760,000 certified records)
• Dutch certified sales: 1,400,000 Albums, 75,000 Singles (Total of 1,475,000 certified records)
• Swedish certified sales: 380,000 Albums, 45,000 Singles (total of 425,000 certified records)
• Swiss certified sales: 440,000 Albums, 50,000 Singles (total of 490,000 certified records)

So, our total including Japan's certifications and one-million figures is 115,185,000. As for the RIAA, make sure you that use the correct certification-level when calculating the digital singles released between 2004 and 2007 (Gold=100,000, Platinum=200,000), see this here. After January 2008 any earlier digital Gold single, if re-certified as Platinum, it turns 1,000,000 as the Digital awards-levels were raised to Gold=500,000, Platinum=1,000,000, RIAA applies newer levels to older releases, this is done by only a few associations. Hope this was not too much information all at once. Cheers.--Harout72 (talk) 23:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Peter, I as I mentioned above, we can only include those figures which come directly from associations. Yes, I have only used this for Madonna when I calculated Australia's sales. And we cannot use anything like this as it cannot be regarded as reliable, only the figures directly from RIAJ's site. Please understand every artist gets the same treatment. Also, I didn't include Austria's sales because the total for Austria is 200,000, 150,000 Albums, 50,000 Singles. I am not sure if you've seen the footnote below the main table at List of best-selling music artists, it states that we are to include those markets the databases of which contain 300,000 or more. By the way, I just checked the source for Australia's 11x Platinum for Music Box at Mariah Carey albums discography and the source is Brazil's certification database, I will remove that immediately. My Swiss numbers you can verify if you'd like, here, use the certification-award-levels at the top of the page. As for Spain's figures, I still have not checked but let me mention that their database is from 2004 onwards, so I am not sure what they have covered, I'll check later.--Harout72 (talk) 00:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, since the last time I had checked the Brazil's certifications for Carey, they have certified two more albums as Gold E=MC2, Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel, not a big difference as their certification-award-levels for international releases have been reduced in 2006 to Gold=30,000 and Platinum=60,000. I updated that above.--Harout72 (talk) 01:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Peter, if you have highly reliable sources claiming Japanese sales, you could insert those, but make sure they are highly regarded sources and nothing like this for example. As for your question Also, if the "Million" award is not a certification award, why is it mentioned on the RIAJ certifying agency?, I thought I provided a clear explanation for this but maybe I didn't explain it well. RIAJ has two databases, one for certification-awards which contains-besides Gold/Platinum awarded records-the sales of those records that have surpassed 1 million mark, but it (certification-database) covers releases from July 2003, see this for example. But let me assure you, that I have gone over each month's posting and neither Carey nor any other non-Japanese artists are amongst those that have sold over 1 million, but again it is from July 2003 until now. However, had we had RIAJ certification-award database going all the way back to 1989, if either one of Carey's earlier 1 Million Seller albums (Merry Christmas, Day Dream, Butterfly, #1s) have sold 2 or 3 million they would have appeared in the certification-database, but we don't have the luxury of knowing that and we can't speculate. The other database is called 1 Million Seller which contains those records since 1989 which have sold 1 Million units (only) and it has no direct connection with Gold/Platinum awards, and that is the database which Carey's 1 Million Seller albums come from, therefore, we need to post them in the column of the sales-figures and not in the column of the certifications. I hope I was clearer this time around. Cheers.--Harout72 (talk) 04:19, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely, both these 1, 2 and alike sources you could implement as Billboard is highly reliable. But make sure to remove the 1-Million-Seller figures for each album respectively, once you have located a higher figure those albums. Good job. --Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a pity that we cannot source the Japanese earlier (earlier than July 2003) certifications, as they don't offer an access at the moment to their market's Gold/Platinum awards issued before July 2003. Unfortunately, we cannot use any sales figures for the Certification-table at [[Music Box (album)}Music Box]].--Harout72 (talk) 00:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A link to the discussion about MDJ used as a reliable source would be great. Thanks in advance!Reidlos (talk) 11:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Message received. It's not something I've done a lot of, so give me a few days to answer.—Kww(talk) 19:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

If you have the song on your computer and you have an audio editing software, such as Audacity, you can trim a song to highlight certain parts of it. –Chase (talk) 06:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Audacity, I believe, is a free program. Google around for a download. There's no vault of audio files; you have to create one yourself, save it as an Ogg Vorbis file, and upload it to Wikipedia. –Chase (talk) 18:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm on my phone right now so looking it it visually there are two problems. 1) the lead is very long. 2) singles have be be in prose for GA status, not bullet pointed. Apart from that it looks incredible. I will take a read on my laptop later on tonight. Jayy008 (talk) 14:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking at it on my laptop. The lead is fine. The only issue is the singles which I've changed. It's soo long for me to read but I'll give it a go lol. Jayy008 (talk) 21:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi peter. I'd be glad to assist. Could you please tell me which two songs you'd like snippets of and I'll create them for you (as I have the software programme to do so). Bare in mind that just like images you must provide descriptions of why those particular snippets are of use. (e.g. use snippets of songs discussed in the recording/production sections or ones which have recieved a lot of critical reception. -- Lil_℧niquℇ №1 (talk2me) 01:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. Are you going to do the others? :P Jayy008 (talk) 14:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I can understand that. Emotions will probably be the hardest! I don't envy that task at all. I can't wait to see what they all look like! Jayy008 (talk) 14:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree, Madonna's albums are always GA or nearly GA. We should do the same for MC. Yep yep, I'll be happy to review :). Don't forget singles have to be a paragraph, I don't like it personal but GA wants it like that :/. Jayy008 (talk) 15:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

You did it. It's GA! Jayy008 (talk) 19:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

What's FA and FL? lol Jayy008 (talk) 20:30, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I can't wait to see. I can't imagine Butterfly ever looking good on here :/. Never has, can't wait to see what you do! Jayy008 (talk) 20:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Definitely. There's a lot of background information as to why it's her favourite etc. Are you doing that one next? Jayy008 (talk) 23:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Petergriffin, I uploaded a 23-second sample to the Mariah Carey album, I see that you asked for more than a 30-second sample but the song is too short, based on its lenght it should be about 18 seconds long but I extended it so the break doesn't sound musically dissonant. If you want a larger sample you have to justify why you exceded the recommended lenght, otherwise they will probably ask you in the GA review to reduce it. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:03, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello, im sorry to inform you but you article nomination of Mariah Carey (album) has failed. The article contains a number of issues which will not likely be completed in 7 days. Please work to address the issues on the Review Page. Once those are done i would suggest a good peer review before renomination of the article. Any questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to ask. Thank you. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 23:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Petergriffin9901. You have new messages at L-l-CLK-l-l's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

His GA review looks pretty normal. Those kind of issues typically prevent an article from reaching GA. If you really think it was unfair, you can just relist it. He shouldn't review it twice in a row, and another editor might say something different. I think you would be better off fixing the issues first.—Kww(talk) 02:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello Peter. I have passed the page as it seemed everything was in order. As per rules suggest, I encourage you to review a page of your own. Good luck.--AlastorMoody (talk) 09:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)