User talk:Loom91/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Loom91. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

The movie is named "Robibar Bikalbela", Sunday Afternoon in english. I don't keep up with the band culture avidly, but probably Fossils rule the youth segment currently, with Chandrabindu taking another portion. But I may be wrong. Loom91 07:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Greetings! I read on the featured article page that the quantum mechanics article is in danger of losing FA status because of the factual inaccuracies. I have seen these inaccuracies, and I can remedy them for the article. I'll do a correct rewrite of the affected sections. By the way, you mentioned NPOV. The funny thing is, in physics, there simply is no POV. The mathematics founding a theory is self consistent and forms the core. There are only interpretations. However, in quantum mechanics the most widely accepted interpretation of the equations is the Born statistical interpretation, but I find it hard to come up with sources, since there is no single authorative source in a peer-reviewed science. Albester 08:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for what you did. It unfortunately did not help. I do not think that anyone who endorsed the other statement even read the one I wrote, and the other statement mostly consisted of personal attacks without much basis in reality. Most of the signers of the other statement had not even been editing on the page until right before the page was blocked. I still do feel there is censorship going on. I put a note in on PAIN to report the personal attacks, but who knows what will happen with that. I'm not editing on Wikipedia anymore until something happens with this. It is really alarming and dissappointing. Elizmr 17:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I was surprised to find that you have moved JEE to IITJEE without any discussion. There is no information on this topic on talkpage. Moving an article is big issue and consensus should have been taken. While it is true that JEE refers to many exams, predominant exam should get the title, while other can have a disambiguation page. By predominant, I mean, one which is more likely to be searched by people. In this case it is even more surprising because you referred to only one exam, WBJEE, which does not has its article page even. So I cannot figure out exactly what is need for moving or disambiguation? AshishG^talk 16:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The correct approach here should have been to create an article JEE (disambiguation) or Joint Entrance Examination (disambiguation), especially since there are a lot of article linking to the current one. Also, there was no need to hurry as there is no page on WB-JEE yet. I suggest we move back the page with some admin's help. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Taking your silence as accent, I am asking an admin to help with moving the pages. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 13:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

We have an emergency! Report to CAUBXD immediately and click on the last "e" in the link "User:Fredil Yupigo/signature". Freddie^{Against Userbox Deletion?} 18:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Freddie has discontinued CAUBXD because of community opposition. The "emergency" was that Cyde, the admin who had nominated many userboxes for deletion, had put his name on the list of those opposing userbox deletion. Timrem 00:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi! No I have not contacted anyone. I have been busy for past few days, and did not come to Wikipedia frequently. I am in wikipedia for last two days, but again taking a break for about 20 days. If you want, please contact others, may be admins. Will talk about it when I am back. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi I am really sorry could not find enough time. I have an exam on 13 June. Hope to resolve this ref pattern thing after that. Please comply. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

This userbox seems to have gone through various versions. This is one of them. I'm happy to help you out with putting userboxes in your userspace as and when I have time, even the one that I disagree with (as one of the architects/supporters of T2) about supporting userboxes. It can be fiddly tracking them down, though, once they're deleted. At least I've got you a version of the atheism box.

Hope this helps. If you still have any boxes that are speediable in their template form under T2, I suggest you userfy them, as I do think that T2, or the practice it makes explicit, is necessary and here to stay. Metamagician3000 13:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

And here's the code for one of the evolution ones you wanted.

And the drug one - hope this is the correct version.

Remind me what the other two are, and I'll get to them in time. I think one was about userboxes and the other was another evolution one. Metamagician3000 13:12, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Here's your antiuserboxdeletion userbox. :)

Loom91/Archive 2

Metamagician3000 00:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

And this looks like the last one you wanted. I'm happy to be of help.

Metamagician3000 00:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Loom91,

I have just read your comments. Maybe is true that I am entering an advanced part, but I think it is needed for two things. First, because the focus that the media has given to the theory. Usually people hear about black holes and gravitational waves before even knowing about the special relativity, and I assume that a lot of visitors of this page will look for answers about this.

Second reason is that I have tried to explain the grounds in the first part of the article. If somebody reads on is because he wants more information. There is really a big gap between the introduction texts and the mathematical theory and it has to be filled somewere.

Anyway, I really need feedback. I was thinking that what I was writting was clear. I suppose everybody considers clear their own texts.... As you can see I am putting a lot of effort extending the article and then simplifying as possible the ideas, and in fact today I was planning to extend the part of the rigid disk with coriolis force and the four-potential. Or maybe is better not to enter this field. I really don't know.

Any suggestion? Which way should I go on from here? Maybe we could leave it like it is, but I really would like to explain more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juansempere (talk • contribs)

You placed an opinion at RFD under an entry that had already been closed (Dokdo). Based upon the opinion & the fact that it wasn't in the correct place within the entry you did vote on, I think you actually meant to place it at the entry above that one (Pseudowallerian degeneration). I have moved it to that entry. If this was incorrect, please delete the opinion and remember that you should not modify a closed entry & that you should always add your opinion at the end. If it was correct, what happened was that a closure header will show up at the bottom of the previous entry (if the next entry is closed). You need to place your opinion before the closure header. If this didn't make sense, please let me know! Thanks. -- JLaTondre 13:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

HELP on the Status of religious freedom in India article... it needs major work.WoodElf 15:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I see you have lots of userboxes on your page. Are you interested in starting your own userbox archive in userspace? Its really simple, helps migrating the boxes out of template: and out of reach of T1/T2 AND is basically the "German solution" Jimbo himself mentioned positively as "the middle ground". For an example click the X in my sig - I'd be happy to help ya, just leave a message on my talk page. CharonX/talk 16:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Just saying hi, and letting you know I stole all your userboxes so I could play with them. Well, I didn't exactly steal them, but sort of borrowed them. Hope this is okay. You seem like a cool dude. Metrocat 18:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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For more information/suggestions/criticisms, please contact any one of the administrators of Hindi wiki here, preferably en:User:Magicalsaumy.

This page can also be found here.

Thank you,

Cygnus_hansa 02:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

ok as you have probably already noticed my userboxes have gone weird. I tried to play around but that didnt work so i was wandering if you may be edit it and make it clean lol. Shall be grateful. Merci. oh and i didnt know u were into photography. Really love your black and white pictures. what camera do you use? BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 00:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is a new initiative for our project. You are recieving this as you have at some point signed up as a "member" of the project. Have a look at the newsletter via the link and see what you think. The June 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 09:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is the new edition of our monthly newsletter. The July 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 13:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I've nominated this because (at least in its present form) this template encourages disregard of conventions that help avoid confusion and extra work. Michael Hardy 22:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is the new edition of our monthly newsletter. The August 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Loom91: You don't really seem to be "taking a break" from editing Wikipedia articles. The preamble to the article has been there for long time and you seem to be the only person who has a problem with it. Your user page says a lot about what you do (edit a lot of articles) and you seem to take pride in that. I don't. It's better to spend time on individual projects and get it right. A lot of other contributors to the thermodynamic temperature article spent time in the discussion page as issues over absolute zero and kinetic motion were hashed out. You have the self-esteem of someone who bypasses such niceties and rushes to judgment by deleting entire paragraphs and then leaving comments like "that's stupid" in your wake. You need to stop, read, and understand what you're doing before you do a "drive-by shooting" on an article because you've taken it upon yourself to decide what content you're in the mood to permit.

The preamble in the article on thermodynamic temperature serves an important purpose. Too many contributors to Wikipedia tend to just throw a whole bunch of techno-babble and formulas into articles that they get out of their text books. The result is a hodge podge of poorly fitting text that is hard to read and serves little purpose. Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, stated on Friday, the first day of Wikimania, that "Although we've always had this goal of Britannica: ‘quality or better’, we're not there yet." “We can no longer feel satisfied and happy when we see these (article) numbers going up. We should continue to turn our attention away from growth and towards quality.” (my emphasis). He also said quality can be improved if entries were written less choppily, for example, or better identified their sources. That's pretty darn clear to me: to blazes with new articles; the quality of Wikipedia articles must improve. The preamble is there to help prevent the same old crap that makes Wikipedia technical articles suffer.

Have you actually read the thermodynamic temperature article? It's one of the more visited technical sites on Wikipedia and has been linked to by a number of universities after I had been corresponding with the Ph.D.s on various issues on thermodynamics. Where do you think three of its six graphics came from(?); I created them and that takes a lot of time. What's your contribution? You delete stuff when you happen upon it. This is especially ironic since you state in your user page that “I hate POV-pushing, censorship and deletionist viewpoints above all else.”. How would you like it if I started visiting the sites where you've been editing and delete some of it—not because it is factually incorrect but only because I disagree with it—and leave only an explanation that I did so because it's "stupid." I guarantee you that if I scrutinize the work you've done, I can find fault with it, delete it, and—parhaps—replace it with something better. Think a bit more about things before acting. If you think the preamble serves a poor purpose and needs to be deleted, raise the issue in the discussion page and get feedback from others until there is a consensus. I've copied this to the discussion page of thermodynamic temperature; post your response there. And if you just go and delete it again, I'll consider it mindless vandalism and revert it. Greg L 01:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• Your ideas of 'discussion' and 'consensus' are rather intriguing. They seem to be focused around making threats of deleting others contributions and calling edits mindless vandalism. Loom91 18:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

kire ki khobor? BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 07:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Chalta hai, duniya hai :-) Between school, studies, computer, friends, rather busy. It's hard finding time o sqeeze in everything. How are you? Kobe jano ekhane aschhis? Loom91 10:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Actually I was in India for 2 months. I came back yesterday to Canada. Buddhadeb Bhattacharya infuriates me. BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 13:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Me too. Loom91 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Has your movie come out yet? BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 19:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it released in Nandan. The reception was exceptional by Nandan standards. We hit house full in the third day. We grossed 32000 in a week in a 200-seater hall even with virtually no publicity. For comparison, the heavily publicized Manush Bhoot running in the 1000-seater grossed 47000 in 2 weeks. We were not given extension due to political reasons. Loom91 11:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I left some messages at talk:integral and talk:Derivative. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 16:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Please use an edit summary when you contribute, it helps others understand what you changed. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 17:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi mate, if you're a fan of Aussie rules, I suggest you take a look at WikiProject AFL (join by adding your name to the list of participants). Also take a look at Category:VFL/AFL players and feel free to drop me a line with any questions, or on the WP:AFL discussion page. Cheers!

Rogerthat ^Talk 04:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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Dear Wikipedian,

I would like to invite you (along with other Wikipedia readers and editors who may be interested) in reviewing the above Wikipedia article. Details about this call for review is found in the discussion page of the above-mentioned article. Your participation would be valued. Splashprince 07:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for merging it! --Ling.Nut 12:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

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hey do you go on orkut?BengalRenaissanceEccentrica 18:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm on orkut under loom91, but I don't go there often. Not much to do. Loom91 07:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Regarding this reversion, Shmitra agrees with me that the prior version was preferable. What is your justification for the reversion? Biruitorul 00:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know a featured article you worked on, 0.999..., was featured today on the Main Page. Tobacman 00:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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we seem to be reverting back and forth on the HF structure and bonding, so let's talk. The H-F bonds in HF are not equivalent based on diffraction studies. Do you read the information diffferently - The monographs and the technical reports read to me that the two H-F distances are quite disparate. Please provide citations for your assertion and we can improve the article together and WE will benefit. Cheers and looking forward to your response.--Smokefoot 13:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Smokefoot's remark. Could you provide references with your changes when you reinsert them? Thank you. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 13:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your note on HF. In general, before you alter such scientific articles it is a good idea to cite original research. WE-chem is watched by several professional chemists. Best wishes,--Smokefoot 14:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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Thank you. Also, thanks for not getting more pissed off than you sounded. ♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 09:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

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I'm sorry, I didn't know that template was a problem. I'm just trying to improve stuff on wikipedia, and in a lot of senses I'm still a newbie. Your edit comment seemed pretty harsh. It wouldn't kill you to nicely let me about the problem on my talk page, would it? I haven't seen a good explanation of protocol for working on draft pages, and I think it's unfair to be pissy at me when you didn't try to help me understand the right way to do it. (Your comment the first time was cryptic and terse; I didn't understand why the template was "inappropriate".) Madeleine 19:38, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I see now what led to this confusion -- you thought I had specifically reinserted the template. What actually happened is I completed the draft I'd been working on and used it to update the Genetics article in March, then blanked the page. A couple days ago, I copied the current version of the page Genetics page over again, and started adding new content. I wasn't specifically re-adding the template. Madeleine 13:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is a list of my relevant publications

P. Gans and H.M.N.H. Irving, "The calculation of stability constants of weak complexes from spectrophotometric data", J. Inorg. Nucl. Chem., 1972, 34, 1885 1890.

G. J. Ford, P. Gans L.D. Pettit and C. Sherrington, "Ligands containing elements of group VIb, Part 6. Transition metal complexes of some alkyl and aryl thioacetic and selenoacetic acids", J. Chem. Soc. Dalton Trans., 1972, 1673 1765.

P. Gans and A. Vacca, "Application of the Davidon Fletcher Powell method to the calculation of stability constants", Talanta, 1974, 21, 45 51.

A. Sabatini, A. Vacca and P. Gans, "MINIQUAD a general computer program for the computation of formation constants from potentiometric data", Talanta, 1974, 21, 53 77.

P. Gans, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, "An improved computer program for the computation of formation constants from potentiometric data", Inorg. Chim. Acta, 1976, 18, 237 239.

P. Gans, J.B. Gill and M. Griffin, "Direct observation by Raman spectroscopy of the co existence of a variety of ion paired species in liquid ammonia solutions of alkali metal salts", J. Amer. Chem. Soc., 1976, 98, 4661 4662.

P. Gans, J.B. Gill, G.J. Earl and J.N. Towning, "Spectrochemistry of Solutions, Part 15. Vibrational spectroscopic observation of solvent shared ion pairs (or outer sphere complexes) on liquid ammonia", Z. Phys. Chem., 1982, 133, 159 166.

P. Gans, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, "SUPERQUAD a new computer program for determination of stability constants of complexes by potentiometric titration", Inorg. Chim. Acta, 1983, 79, 219.

P. Gans, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, "SUPERQUAD: an improved general program for computation of formation constants from potentiometric data", J. Chem. Soc. Dalton Trans., 1985, 1195 1200.

Y.M. Cheek, P. Gans and J.B. Gill, "First determination of complex formation constants in liquid ammonia solutions using potentiometric titrations: Cyano and thiocyanato silver(I) complexes at 233K", J. Chem. Soc. Chem. Comm., 1985, 628 629.

M. Bachelin, P. Gans and J.B. Gill, "Spectrochemistry of Solutions, Part 24. LI. Na, K and Bun4 Thiocyanates in Methanol: Infrared Spectroscopic Evidence for Ion Pairing and Hydrogen Bonding", J. Chem. Soc. Faraday Trans., 1992, 88, 3327-3330.

A. Sabatini, A. Vacca and P. Gans, "Mathematical Algorithms and Computer Programs for the Determination of Equilibrium Constants from Potentiometric and Spectrophotometric Measurements ", Coord. Chem. Revs., 1992, 120, 389-405.

P. Gans, J.B. Gill and K.M. Holden, "Spectrochemistry of Solutions, Part 27. Formation of [Mg(NCS)]+ in solutions of Mg(NCS)2 in Methanol,", J. Chem. Soc. Faraday Trans., 1994, 90, 2351-2352.

C. Frassineti, S. Ghelli, P. Gans, A. Sabatini, M.S. Moruzzi and A. Vacca, "Nuclear Magnetic Resonance as a Tool for Determining Protonation Constants of Natural Polyprotic Bases in Solution", Anal. Biochem., 1995, 251, 374-382.

P. Gans, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, "Investigation of Equilibria in Solution. "Determination of Equilibrium Constants with the HYPERQUAD Suite of Programs", Talanta, 1996, 43, 1739-1753.

L. Alderighi, P. Gans, A. Ienco, D. Peters, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, “Hyperquad simulation and speciation (HySS): a utility program for the investigation of equilibria involving soluble and partially soluble species”, Coord. Chem. Revs., 1999, 184, 311-318.

P. Gans, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca, “Determination of Equilibrium Constants from Spectrophotometric Data Obtained from Solutions of Known pH: the Program pHAB”, Annali di Chimica, 1999, 89, 45-49.

L. Alderighi, A. Bianchi, L. Biondi, L. Calabi, M. De Miranda, P. Gans, S. Ghelli, P. Losi, L. Paleari, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca “Thermodynamics of the Acid Dissociation of BOPTA. Application of the 13C-NMR Spectroscopy Coupled with the New Computer Program HYPNMR for the Determination of Equilibrium Constants.”, J. Chem. Soc. Perkin Trans. 2, 1999, 2741-2745.

P. Gans and B. O’Sullivan, “GLEE, a new computer program for Glass electrode calibration”, Talanta, 2000, 51, 33-37.

P. Gans, “A puzzle concerning solution equilibria”, J. Chem. Ed., 2000, 77, 489-490.

F. Cecconi, C. Frassineti, P. Gans, S. Iotti, S. Midollini, A. Sabatini and A. Vacca ” Complex formation equilibria of phosphocreatine with sodium, potassium and magnesium ions”, Polyhedron 2002, 21, 1481-1484.

C. Frassineti, L. Alderighi, P. Gans, A. Sabatini, A. Vacca and S.Ghelli, “Determination of protonation constants of some fluorinated polyamines by means of 13C NMR data processed by the new computer program hypnmr2000. Protonation sequence in polyamines”, Anal. Bioanal. Chem., 2003, 376, 1041-1052.

L. Alderighi, P. Gans, S. Midollini and A. Vacca, “Co-ordination chemistry of the methylmercury(II) ion in aqueous solution: a thermodynamic investigation”, Inorg. Chim. Acta, 2003, 356, 8-18.

P. Gans, “Stability constants, determination and uses”, Protonic Software, Leeds, 2004.

P. Gans and A. Vacca, “Stability Constants” in Encyclopedia of Supramolecular Chemistry, J.L.Atwood and J.W. Steep (Editors), Marcel Dekker, 2004.

P. Gans and A. Vacca, “Potentiometric Titration” in Encyclopedia of Supramolecular Chemistry, J.L.Atwood and J.W. Steep (Editors), Marcel Dekker, 2004.

E. Koort, P.Gans, K. Herodes, V.Pihl and I. Leito, “Acidity constants in different media (I=0 and I=0.1M KCl) from the uncertainty perspective”, Anal. Bioanal. Chem., 2006, 385, 1124-1139.

Petergans 13:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe you incorrectly reverted a change made to the description of the iterated prisoner's dilemma. Specifically, it is *incorrect* to say that in a iterated prisoner's dilemma with a known number of rounds the *dominant* stategy is to always defect. This is the only Nash equilibrium that may arise, but it is not a dominant strategy. Note that this mistake was originally made by Luce & Raiffa in their 1957 edition of Games and Decisions and has been propagated to much of the literature since (including Axelrod's "The Evolution of Cooperation"). The proof is *incorrect*. Here is a simple analogy to show where the problem is:

The problem as in: J. B. Fraleigh, A First Course in Abstract Algebra, 6th Edition. page 21 exercise 8.

a. A murderer is sentenced to be executed. He asks the judge not to let him know the day of the execution. The judge says, "I sentence you to be executed at 10 a.m. some day of this coming January, but I promise that you will not be aware you are being executed that day until they come to get you at 8 a.m." The criminal goes to his cell and proceeds to prove he can't be executed in January as follows:

(Note: <= means less than or equal to)

Let P(n) be the statement that I can't be executed on January (31-n). I want to prove P(n) for 0<=n<=30. Now I can't be executed on January 31, for since that is the last day of the month and I am to be executed that month, I would know that was the day before 8 a.m., contrary to the judge's sentence. Thus P(0) is true. Suppose P(m) is true for 0<=m<=k where k<=29. That is, suppose I can't be executed on January (31-k) through January 31. Then January (31-k-1) must be the last possible day for execution, and I would be aware that was the day before 8 a.m., contrary to the judge's sentence. Thus I can't be executed on January (31-(k+1)), so P(k+1) is true. Therefore I can't be executed in January.

Of course, the criminal was executed on January 17. That is the problem! Timothy Chow's papers is the best description of what is going on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimitridobrasil (talk • contribs)

Thank you for your comments. However, the problem with the iterated prisoner's dilemma is not new research. There are many books with the correct reasoning. I believe I provided a link to an article that *best describes* the problem. The article is from a very reputatable source (American Methematical Monthly). Not only that, I believe that the paragraph with the example, make the problem pretty clear. What else do I need to do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimitridobrasil (talk • contribs)

Thanks for you comments. I see your point. The problem is that most books which are correct simply present the correct reasoning, they don't compare it to the wrong one. Although I believe the example makes the problem clear, I see why Chow's article is an innappropriate citation in the sense that it argues a different point. I hope you can see through the example that the reasoning in the paragraph is incorrect. In my view that paragraph is tricking people into making a mistake by confusing two concepts. In any case, I'll take another look at the literature and see if I can find a better reference. Thanks. Dimitridobrasil 23:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Please look at Metrohm. This is the kind of equipment that people use nowadays to determine equilibrium constants. The modern burette is a piston burette (Dosimat). It works like a syringe. Another thing: the titration flask is not thermostatted, but the article stresses constant temperature. Petergans 07:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)