User talk:Deryck Chan/Archive 1

Please note:

This is an archive. Any comments please post onto the new comment's page. Deryck C. 7 July 2005 10:33 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your contributions to some Hong Kong-related articles. You might be interested to take a look at HK wikipedians' notice board, HK Collaboration of the Week and Current events in Hong Kong and Macao. Happy editing! — Instantnood June 28, 2005 17:34 (UTC)

Thanks. I will do my best in helping the Hong Kong stuff. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 11:39:04 (UTC)

• Deryck, maybe I was a bit harsh on you in FAC. But please try not to say things like "This article may seem interesting to Americans, but please note that wikipedia is NO AMERICAN WORLD. We Asians have NEVER heard about this guy", I'm sorry to say that this statement sounds very arrogant, as if you speak for all asians. Even though you have never heard of him, I'm willing to bet lots of asians have, especially the people he worked with in China and India. Besides, if a featured article meets the criteria then it should be supported, doesn't matter what the topic is about. A featured article is basically, in my definition an article that looks a lot like one from a "professional encyclopedia". I'm chinese too, (Malaysian) and I understand your frustration, it would be nice to have less of an american slant in wikipedia. But we don't correct this slant by attacking or bringing down western topics, we do it by writing good articles on chinese/asian stuff, for instance that excellent Hong Kong article. I prefer to write about Malaysian stuff than chinese stuff (I can't read chinese, so that's a big problem) but I would like to see something like Sun Yat-sen being made feautured. I think this is my next project, once my current FAC gets passed (unlike most chinese history articles, this one is very uncontroversial). Maybe you could help me with this? In particular, it needs more references, like history books etc but these are probably harder to find in malaysia than in HK. Borisblue 30 June 2005 16:20 (UTC)

Chinese is not really difficult. Maybe contact me when you need any help. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 11:38:21 (UTC)

OK, I'll start the project as soon as the Carl Friedrich Gauss article gets the FA. At the moment, I notice that the page has a lot of good information, unfortunately it's all very messy. I think the contributors just took it from the chinese wikipedia and translated it directly. The first thing I will do is to clean up the formatting and the grammar/spelling/style errors. Also, there are no references. I'm sure you can find a lot of books about him in HK; can you please find them and put them in a reference section? I hope you like history, it will be great if we can build this up into a FA. Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:25 (UTC)

• Just a pointer. Whether or not you've "heard of him" doesn't ammter when coming to judge the quality of an article. FAC is an important feature of Wikipedia, and serious editors take any article into consideration. I haven't heard of anyone famous from Hong Kong ever, and yet I haven't asked for the city's article and all Hong Kong related pieces to be deleted. If you don't feel an article is worthy of FA, at least give some real reasons for objecting. Thanks. Harro5 June 30, 2005 22:45 (UTC)

Sorry for my arrogance. I hope this won't hurt you people much. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 11:38:21 (UTC)

Everybody, sorry for my arrogance in the FAC if that hurt you by any means. I'm now trying to look things in a more positive way and more approving way. --Deryck C. 2005-07-01 11:37:47 (UTC)

Good, then you might want to reconsider your mild objection on the IFK Göteborg FAC, as I've addressed your issues on the article. -- Elisson | Talk 1 July 2005 14:15 (UTC)

I don't think any major harm was done, but your votes and comments are rather irregular. Please read the FA criteria carefully and note that objections must be actionable. If nothing can be done to fix them, they can be ignored. That includes comments based on an article's topic. Much more important is to give specific reasons why an article doesn't mee the criteria and how it can be improved. After all we're in this to create better articles, not for a vote really. So please go back and update your various comments on the FAC page in light of that. Good FAC contributors are very important. You may want to read through some of the past discussions and the talk page to get an idea of how the criteria are applied also. - Taxman ^Talk July 1, 2005 14:20 (UTC)

I've decided to withdraw my opposition to IFK Goteborg and turn neutral (but really couldn't support, the team is really unfamous). Also, I still think that I wouldn't be too bothered by the FAC rules, and I'll keep on voicing out my own opinions instead of strictly following the FAC rules. However I'll point out every point that I think the author can do better when I put up an opposition. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 14:28:28 (UTC)

Actually in my opinion, it's better to have featured articles about stuff that people never heard about, so that more people have a chance to learn new things. That's a reason that many people participate in wikipedia, to learn. Also, things that are famous to some people may not be famous to others, and it's unfair to determine whether an article is important simply based on a hong konger's perspective- Also, if you implement this "fame" policy, it's going to make it even more american-centric, simply because most people in the english wikipedia are english/americans! For instance, if "fame" becomes a criteria for a featured article, then there's no way i can get a lot of chinese/malaysian/asian stuff in. In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of westerners never heard of Sun Yat-sen, or of most other famous chinese people for that matter, other than Mao or Deng Xiaoping. So you must see why I must disagree with using fame as a criteria for FA. I hope you understand. Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:17 (UTC)

Another thing i want to add: if you still want to try to propose a rule change, go to wikipedia proposals where we can discuss new ideas. If you want to object based on fame without proposing a rule change, then your objections will eventually become ignored (most of them already have) Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:17 (UTC)

I wouldn't ask the rules to be changed because as long as there's a rule the range of opinions will be regulated. If people really wanna remove my comments then let them do ^_^ Deryck C. 2005-07-01 15:19:21 (UTC)

I can't force you to vote in a certain way, but chosing to vote Neutral instead of Support just because you think the team isn't famous enough (which is based on your very limited POV, or your lack of interrest for football history. Winning two UEFA Cups, the second most prestigeous club tournament in Europe, isn't notable?) is just plain nonsense. The FAC's should in no way be judged from how famous they are. Please, if you in the future have comments on the notability of a FAC, keep them for yourself. -- Elisson | Talk 1 July 2005 17:00 (UTC)

It's just my point of view, but still my point of view! Deryck C. 2005-07-03 23:42:32 (GMT+8)

Respected, although not understood. -- Elisson | Talk 3 July 2005 16:19 (UTC)

Please also review your opposition on the Caulfield Grammar FAC. If you still have problems, read the article and cite examples of what you don't like. This article has been reviewed by various respected Wikipedians, and none of them have a problem with the way the language sounds. Thanks. Harro5 July 5, 2005 01:55 (UTC)

I've responded to your latest comment, that the article looks like a brochure. Please read what I've posted, and point out what you are specifically unhappy with. Thanks. Harro5 July 5, 2005 03:01 (UTC)

May I ask, is that Borisblue who asked me about the Carl Gauss stuff? Deryck C. 2005-07-01 15:25:20 (UTC)

Thanks Borisblue. I think I could find some titles of books about Carl Gauss (I can get 100 book titles in 10 minutes if there are really so many books) using the Hong Kong Central Library webPAC system (HKCL is another article that I've put in a lot of effort. Please spare some time and read it!) However I think it's your job to compile the paragraphs about his personality and family into the biography. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 15:31:05 (UTC)

• No, I asked you for Sun Yat-sen stuff! Gauss has enough books already, Sun has none. Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:36 (UTC)

I'm working on the Gauss formatting now. Changed the family and personality subsections into "biography" subsections. Structure looks a little better now.Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:44 (UTC)

Sun Yet-sen? Then I'll be really willing to help as Sun is also a Cantonese like I do XDDD. Deryck C. 2005-07-01 15:41:45 (UTC)

• Yeah, and his article is a mess at the moment. Just check out some books on him the next time you visit the library. Thank you :) Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)

There's a lot of (???) marks in the Sun Yat-sen page. Can you figure out what they are? I'm just reading a few webpages so I have a better grasp of his history.Borisblue 1 July 2005 15:53 (UTC)

Deryck, you're right, those were chinese characters! I actually use firefox, but I was using my cousin's computer when I was reading the article the last time. So do you think that this can be an FA? (please reply on your talkpage; I've watched it. Borisblue 3 July 2005 15:31 (UTC)

It could become an FA but needs some amendments. It's late today, so I'll come back and do that tomorrow or the day after. Deryck C. 2005-07-03 15:39:38 (UTC)

You can move the content of a discussion page to a subpage. — Instantnood July 1, 2005 16:20 (UTC)

I noticed that you haven't been officially welcomed to Wikipedia, so I thought I'd share a few pointers with you.

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
• Picture tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Naming conventions
• Manual of Style
• Merging, redirecting, and renaming pages
• If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Wikipedia:Topical index.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!

Welcome once again, and I hope you stay! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 2 July 2005 21:42 (UTC)

To Boris: I've updated the Sun Yat-sen article. You can have a look and try to put it up on FAC. Deryck C. 2005-07-04 04:49:08 (UTC)

• Your edits were very good! It doesn't look as messy anymore, except maybe for the "names" part. However, it will definitely need some referencs, try to find some biographies and list them. The ones I found on google aren't that good. Once we get some reference done i think it's good enough for peer review. People will treat FAC candidates more nicely if they were on peer review first. I will contact a few of the article's original contributors and ask them to help too- can you talk to some of your HK friends as well? We have to be patient. I'm sorry I couldn't really help that much yet, my Gauss FAC got a few objections that I had to resolve. Borisblue 4 July 2005 06:05 (UTC)

List of books about Sun Yat-sen (copy the list from the wikipedia code):

1. Sun Yat-sen's vision for China / Martin, Bernard, 1966.
2. Sun Yat-sen, Yang Chu-yun, and the early revolutionary movement in China / Hsueh, Chun-tu
3. Sun Yat-sen / Bergere, Marie-Claire. c1998.
4. Sun Yat-sen 1866-1925 (孫中山, 1866-1925) / The Millennium Biographies (千禧名人傳記系列) / Hong Kong, 1999
5. Sun Yat-sen and the origins of the Chinese revolution Schiffrin, Harold Z. /1968.
6. Sun Yat-sen; his life and its meaning; a critical biography. Sharman, Lyon, / 1968, c1934

These are just the first 6 books. I can get some 20 more if you like. Deryck C. 5 July 2005 01:51 (UTC)

• Excellent. Added them- if you think they are interesting information in the books you mentioned just put them in. I talked to the original contributors of this article and they said that they only used websites- no wonder the biography section is so short. Even though they are a lot of sections, all of them are only a few lines long- I'm sure Sun's life consists of much much more than this! Compare the George Washington article for example.

Borisblue 5 July 2005 02:01 (UTC)

• Em... tell you a thing... actually I haven't read the books. I just downloaded the list from the HKCL WebPac. Deryck C. 2005-07-05 02:05:02 (UTC)
  • Oh, OK doesn't matter. Just borrow 1 or 2 so you can help expand the biography- it really is too short and half of it is about his names! I've added some information about his family, but I don't know their chinese names. Can you find and add the names of his father, mother, etc? Thank you :) and did you receive my email?Borisblue 5 July 2005 02:58 (UTC)

Got the mail. Deryck C. 2005-07-05 04:38:53 (UTC)

Thanks for advice. I'll do that later; I'm dealing with vandalism right now. Hope you can help as well. See here :-) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 5 July 2005 08:54 (UTC)

Deryck has recently found out the username and password that he had lost 10 months ago (Deryck Chan). He will now consider merging the other account into this one, or this account into that. Deryck C. 2005-07-06 01:29:58 (UTC)

Hi Deryck Chan!

So happy that we have our Hong Kong article promoted to be an WP:FAC, gaining an overwhelming popularity. I think it's not the time to cool down our ambition. The page flag of Hong Kong is now asking for your helping hand! I have greatly modelled it on flag of South Africa and flag of India, plus some brand-new illustrations added which is drawn by me with Flash, and the standard of the article has been greatly boosted, and, nearly, lived up to the feature article's standard. Still, some crucial information is absent, and that's whay your help is urgently needed!

The following information are still missing:

• Symbolism, e.g. the meaning of the design, the bauhinia flower, the red-coloured background, etc.
• History
• Photos, e.g. Flags raising ceremony at Golden Bauhinia Square, Flags in parade, desecration cases (I think Long Hair have tried that before ;-P), etc.

Being an active and endeavourous wikipedian, you are now asked to collaborate on this project at full stretch — and to shouw your pride of being a HK wikipedian!

Yours sincerely, Jerry Crimson Mann 6 July 2005 15:18 (UTC)

• Okay, but I never thought you'll misspell my name. Deryck C. 7 July 2005 08:34 (UTC)
  • O, sorry for the mistake :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 7 July 2005 08:41 (UTC)