User talk:Bobo192/Archive 8

The service is actually down. Why you remove that information? Too hard to check http://www.virustotal.com/ by yourself? Ask somebody to confirm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.204.251.241 (talk) 10:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. I am wondering whether you mean that the "server" is down or the "service" is down. If the entire website has been discontinued altogether, then this is worth noting, but if this is simply temporary downtime, then the downtime will presumably be fixed soon.

If indeed it is the former, then I don't believe this information belongs in the article, but if it is the latter, then that's fair enough. All the best. Bobo. 10:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, Wikipedia should not contain actual information? --88.204.251.241 (talk) 10:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. I noticed from the list of participants at WP:FOOTY that you are a Manchester United fan. A task force has been set up to help improve articles related to Manchester United, and we are looking for participants to help with the effort. If you would be interested, please add your name to the list at the task force's page. Thanks. – PeeJay 10:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for joining. By me, ĤéĺĺвοЎ (talk) 12:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your interest in being involved with the editing process here at Wikipedia. Unfortunately, your edit (reverting changes to the Manning/Tyree article) violates Standard Use rules. It is not acceptable practice to revert another user's edits without providing justification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.57.245.11 (talk) 01:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, this IP's edit here [1], which reverted my perfectly explained edit, was also done without explanation. As was his next edit to the page [2], which again gave no rationale for his changes. In my view, Bobo192 was perfectly justified in his reversion, since the IPs edits were unexplained and again introduced his POV into the article. Another editor has since reverted the IPs changes again. Dayewalker (talk) 03:11, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The Man Utd Taskforce which you recently joined has selected Alex Ferguson article as the collaboration of the month. We plan that all the members will try to improve this article to be a splendid article or maybe even a featured one. Sincerely, HeLLboy2HeLL (talk) 08:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Time to get this kick started again.--Vintagekits (talk) 15:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Bobo. Excellent. I just added "first-class cricket" to Allison's lead to make clear OUCC is a first-class team and the stub tag. All the best. BlackJack | ^{talk page} 19:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed your edit to the comment in Wass's page. I'm not very well acquainted with Ancestry.co.uk, but when I did a search just now the only Chesterfield-born Horace Wass who came up was born in December 1903, so clearly isn't "our" Horace. Am I to assume that the extra details you found are in the subscription-only part of the site? Loganberry (Talk) 22:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bobo192, I address you because in the past you contributed to the article of a Russian Olympic archer Balzhinima Tsyrempilov. Recently, I started 2 new articles about Russian Olympic archers, Natalia Erdyniyeva and Bair Badënov. I have but a minor experience with the English edition of Wikipedia, I am not a native speaker of English and totally lack sports terminology. Would you please review and correct these articles when/if you find it possible (taking in account their current participation in the Archery at the 2008 Summer Olympics events). Thanks in advance, --Tar-ba-gan (talk) 15:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Do you have any idea why he was called "Granny"? Johnlp (talk) 20:36, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it confirmed as raccoon? Noticed one IP changed it to raccoon. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Um, what are saying about National Cleavage Day, I did not understand. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not saying your revert was incorrect. I was a bit surprised to see the change by the IP. I asked you because I though you probably know better about the creature. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I have not created this cricketer. I completed all the bangladeshi crickerers from the end of august and it appears the cricketer you stated played after this date so I have not created him. I am in the process of going through and trying to create all the english cricketers which will take a long time. I especially need help in the prose. If you remember me from before user Nick Mallory did the prose while I did the infobox as I have never been good with grammar and making things generally make sense. Any help on this will be greatly appreciated. User MDCollins created a template at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdcollins1984/cricketbiog which he suggested I will follow in the future which I will do. Any help would be very helpful. No pressure though. I do plan on going through the bangladeshi cricketers to update ones that I have not created but this will be in the future so as to have a build up instead of having only a few yet to be created. Thanks. 02blythed (talk) 15:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, If you do want to help or do not, no pressure though, let me know on my talk page and we can discuss how we are going to create the cricketers or not as the case may be. Thanks.

p.s. I will probably start creating more cricketers in about a week and half time so you know if you will be able to help if you decide to at all. Thanks 02blythed (talk) 14:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am pleased to hear that you are willing to help. I have thought of a way to do it. I could perhaps create the page with an infobox and a single sentance saying ..... is an english first class cricketer and also have a tag that says that the article is going under major expansion and then you could expand the text following the template by MDcollins with the link being above. This is how me and user Nick Mallory created the bangladeshi cricketers. Then when i have created cricketers I will put a link onto your talk page or you can look at my contributions and take it from there. This is only an idea if you disagree then say. Thanks. 02blythed (talk) 14:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

hello, I will then create the infoboxes for the cricketers as you agree and then you complete the prose and I will place an expand tag on the articles. Your idea about me putting the infoboxes on after you have done the prose also sounds like a very good idea. Just send me a list of cricketers that require the infobox and I will do them. I am unable to create them though for another week and a half/ two weeks due to circumstances at home though.

I have been doing the cricketers in alphabetical order which I think is best so we clearly know what we have done without having to go look in our contributions to see what we have and have not done.

I go to cricket archive home page, look at archive tag on homepage, go down to players and click on England then click on A and go down to the relevant player that is next on the list which is Walter Anstead and then go to the next first class/ list A cricketer that requires a page and create there page. This is a very huge task. I have already created a number of articles as I started from the top of the list and created pages for all first class/ list A cricketers until walter who is next. If the instructions sounds patronising or rude i do not mean it to be I have just stated it so you are aware of the order of the cricketers to be done as I do not know if you use cricket archive alot and know how to get around the site. I look forward to working with you. 02blythed (talk) 15:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, You have a long list of cricketers there which looks good. Do you not like my idea about going through in order so we know we have complete list of cricketers and we know how much we ahve done and how much we have remaining. Also when writing the prose looking at statistics and commenting on his highest scores, best bowling performance and including the match reference to confirm this as the template I told you about above. Maybe you could have a look at it and then use this and your suggestion and combine the to to get a really good start to the articles we create. I will create some of the infoboxes for them now as I have a bit of time. 02blythed (talk) 15:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your welcome, I will complete the infoboxes for you as you say we should go down the list of cricketers and we can do the cricketers on your sandbox as it comes on the list or whenever you want to.

Creating all the yorkshire cricketers must of taken some time to do well done to that user. 02blythed (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, how does an intramural hockey team at the University of Minnesota have anything to do with its law school? I don't see anything about it that verifies its an official group sanctioned by the law school. Its no different than any other intramural sports team from any school at the University of Minnesota. There are no links to even verify that the team exists, other than a photo. By this same token, I could go to the University of Minnesota Carlson School of Business page and edit it to include information about the unofficial Carlson School of Business intramural basketball team, the RichBoys. I have pictures to prove it exists and its been around just as long as the Fighting Mondales have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.173.127.11 (talk) 20:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you're incorrect. Information about the teams is freely available on the internet and on the Law School's official website. --Bobak (talk) 20:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bobo,

I've just created an account, in order to create an article about my niece Ashley Lilley, however I note that you deleted an article about her on the 14th June.

00:54, 14 June 2007 Bobo192 (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ashley Lilley" ‎ (CSD A7)

Can you please advise me as to whether I should start the article from scratch, or can I review the article which you deleted and use this as a starter?

Kind Regards, Jim Alexander Jasalexander (talk) 11:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. He's the latest in a line of Aussies who scores runs for fun whichever county he plays for en route to the Test side! JP (talk) 20:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bobo,

Thanks for the reply. Not sure who you've mistaken me for, but I haven't cited any album credits for Ashley Lilley. Ashley is a singer and actress, and is mentioned on both the cast list of Mamma Mia! (film version) and the Rothesay page, but no articles exist for her. I was enquiring about the article which you deleted.

If you believe there may be a conflict of interest by me creating an article, then who shall create one?

Regards, Jim Alexander Jasalexander (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, as said to you before I needed two weeks to deal with RL. I am now ready to create cricketers. But I am about to start uni in a short time so my editing will be reduced. I will try to create cricketers when I can I am unsure how many I will be able to create. If you have the time though you could create the cricketers in the alphabetical order we discussed before then I will create the infobox when I can as we also discussed. I will create infoboxes for the crickters on your user pages as well as those you put on my user page. I will do a few now. Just say on my user page or on this page that you are ready to start, if you are then I know that I can create the crickters with an infobox and a sentance saying he is a english first class cricketer and with an expand tag in the knowledge that you can expand on it before it gets put up for deletion. Tell me on my user page any time that you will be unable to expand the new crickters so I do not create them as they will probably be deleted without the expansion due to the article only being a short sentance and an infobox. I will add infoboxes when I can to already created articles during this time. I look forward to working with you. 02blythed (talk) 02:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I thought we were going to create the cricketers in alphabetcial order as we discussed earlier so it would be clear the crcikters we have and have not created. If you want to do them by team as on my sandbox then ok if you want suggestions on this appreciated. Are they complete lists by the way. On the bangledeshi cricketers I do not have a list of the crickters I have not created and I would not have an idea how to compile such a list without going through cricket archive and going through them all. All I can say is that you can either look on my contributions to see the crickters I have created and therefore see the ones I have not which will also take a long time for you as it would do for me. I have created articles with help from nick mallory who seems to be quite inactive recently I will ask him if he wants to help though, all the bangladeshi crickters first class/ List A class up to the summer 2007. I think there are over 200 of them we created. They are all in the bangladeshi cricketer category if you want to see them. 02blythed (talk) 02:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. I do not know what you mean by we only have 12 cricketers from surrey but there are 24 beginning with A. If you mean that there are cricketers I have missed if so an explanation is to look on the category english crickters which may fill in the void as all the criceters I created are there and some of them may of needed to be disabiguated (sorry if spelt wrong probably is) so may not of been able to find it as has crickter added onto his name. If you meant something else then could you explain please. Also the list of crickters must of taken you a while to complete good work. ps. I will double check your work and edit any clear mistakes. 02blythed (talk) 03:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Ok I get what you mean now. I have not categorised any of the cricketers I created by the club they played for. The only category I used was the english cricketers category. They may be there. I also tried to look for william amstead that you said you had created so could add a infobox to him but i searched for him but was not on the disambiguation page have you forgotten to add him. 02blythed (talk) 03:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi on the infobox Wilfred Berry there is a problem on the infobox as the date of death is not known. Could you fix the problem if you could and can. Thanks. 02blythed (talk) 03:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am now going to start creating a few cricketers. I am going to list them here with the link to the article. I will do this on yours and Nick mallory's page also so who ever has the time to do it can. Also if both of you are aware of it the less likely it will be deleted in the meantime. I will add a tag saying it is due to be expanded to reduce the likelyhood of deletion. Thanks. 02blythed (talk) 21:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

new cricketers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Anstead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Anstruther

new cricketers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Anthony_(cricketer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Anthony_(cricketer)

More new cricketers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Anthony_(cricketer) 02blythed (talk) 11:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Antrobus 02blythed (talk) 12:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My source is the OPS database, where he is listed with the others (apart from Sydney who is missing for some reason). As the index is by quarters,I cannot give the actual date. They must all have been children of the brewer Sydney whom I have just added. Any progress on the missing pre-45 Derbs cricketers would be most useful. Regards Motmit (talk) 13:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

19-Sep-2008: Dear Bobo, thanks for kindly asking about the flat-symbols, but it doesn't matter to me. A lot of music is written by hand, and, of course, they don't care about precise symbols: a line ending in any "lump" is good enough to show a flat-symbol. However, an ex-WP guy warned how unmanaged systems will give rise to petty format-tyrants who find "power" in forcing standard rules of data formatting, because the broad expanse of knowledge is an endless ocean, beyond attempts to force it into a controlled box. And, that's why Wikipedia has been a "psycho magnet" - for where else could a sociopath, who wants to hurt people, find the power to insult and trash the hard work of other people, hurting people every hour by ruthless edits, on a daily basis? Wikipedia gives irresistible power to psychopaths.

I've been editing WP for 3 years, and I sense (strongly) that the system is falling apart: articles are fading fast due to "wiki-rot" of deleted images, random edits, undetected vandalism, etc. Hence, don't be too concerned: I try to focus on mainline subjects, such as "Hurricane Ike" while the topic is trendy, and while most people are still reading it. Six months from now, it will get hacked to vomit, so move on to what people will be reading then. I know a lot of people quit due to edit-wars, and Wikipedia is a "big" cultural joke in America (banned by many schools), but I can't pinpoint the main reasons why zillions of people have abandoned the effort of fighting the daily sewage. Perhaps word has spread that WP is continual sewer work: all articles quickly rot to quirky trash unless get-a-life people sacrifice their daily lives to salvage this never-read crap. I thank you for trying, and if you are fixing and copying articles into Veropedia, then I understand. Or if you're tired of being a citation-slave and want to offer unsourced, expert opinions by writing Google Knol opinion papers, then that's fine as well. Meanwhile, I just try to throw together things of current interest, while they're read, and no longer care about the mounds of moldy, infested articles written last year, which are rotting into pathetic trash. Whether people are paid to ruin articles, hack to get caught, hack to leave "Sally's" name for posterity, or just delete illustrations to "save disk space", Wikipedia is just totally awash in trash articles. If other people were forced to open their homes, daily, to the general public, they'd see just how filthy things can get, in a short time. Sorry, but the wiki concept just doesn't work, so I know the quality doesn't matter: let all the grains of sand slip between fingers and fall back to the beach along with the rest; don't build sandcastles in the tide. It is a fool's errand, so continue to be kind to other people, but don't worry about the useless details. Anyway, thank you for your kindness: by that measure you have won the world. -Wikid77 (talk) 02:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the message re: Everly Brothers discography. I'll keep at it and put a few of the more common compilations in there too. There's way too many of them to go with more than a few anyway. Thanks again.Airproofing (talk) 18:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't have done that. Redoing an admin action that was undone is exactly what wheel warring is— especially minutes later, and without so much as a peep on my talk page. — Coren ^(talk) 01:02, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I certainly don't take it personally; but it was a Bad Idea. A block is preventative, and now it's pretty much devolving into a punitive measure— something which I felt was really important to curtail immediately. The only way I felt this could be done was to act decisively: unblock, but under conditions which would prevent Kurt from resuming the problem behavior.

Would you consider undoing your reblock? The default condition for an editor should really be not blocked and I'm affraid that if your reblock remains someone else will re-undo it and the whole situation will explode. — Coren ^(talk) 01:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know nothing about Amrita Singh, so I can't comment on which of the years is correct, but IMDB has gotten the date from some person on the internet and where he/she got it, I don't know. So I don't think IMDB is a reliable source. 82.139.86.85 (talk) 11:35, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I've changed this dab to a redirect as only one has an article and the other only has one red link to it. I do feel this would be potentially useful though, so if you know anything about Deedes snr and create a stub, please change this back to a dab. Thanks, Hndis (talk) 09:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course. :) It did look a bit confusing, especially with them sharing an initial too. By the way, I don't think CA adds players to their database until they're involved in a match that they upload - so these two players won't get their pages on there until the match finishes. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 07:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, If you create the articles on bangladeshi cricketers that make there debut in the next few days/weeks. I will put it on my to do list to create the infoboxes for them. By the way I like the way you are creating cricketers and have produced subpages of cricketers by their team they played for. Good idea. User 02blythed (for some reason I cannot sign properly)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Antrobus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Antrobus_(cricketer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Antrobus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Anwar 02blythed (talk) 00:07, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Appleby 02blythed (talk) 00:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I do not know what you mean by what do you think. If you are asking mu opinion on your prose of the articles. It is good as it always is. 02blythed (talk) 02:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. I did wonder whether BlackJack might have done some of the 18th century Kent players that you included, but I haven't checked. JH (talk page) 16:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I said "18th century" cricketers, I should really have said "whose dates of birth are shown as being in the 18th century". Of much more recent Kent cricketers, I'm tempted to write articles on David Halfyard and Stuart Leary, but my "to do" list is ever lenthening so I may never get around to it. JH (talk page) 17:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck with that. I found that Stuart Leary does in fact have an article. That must have been one of the links that AMBerry has corrected. My own primary interest is Surrey, where there's still much work to be done. (With a secondary interest of cricket journalists.) JH (talk page) 18:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That would be very welcome. So far I've ensured that all Surrey players with 10,000 runs, 500 wickets or 200 dismissals have an article. My next step will be to fill in the gaps among Surrey captains, followed by all those who have played at least 100 games for the county. The names of those players who are redlinks appear at User:Jhall1#To_do, along with some other cricketers and cricket topics that I'd like to address one day. I confess that I haven't done much in the last month or two though. JH (talk page) 19:18, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sussex: Good work! I've made one correction (Harry Parks), and spotted the following which seemed too difficult for me to sort out: You have two David Smiths, the well-known one who played for Surrey, Sussex and Worcestershire, but also a second one who also played for Lancashire, whom I can't find on CricketArchive. Is "James Parks (cricketer)" a duplication, as the only Sussex J Parks I can find are Jim Parks senior and junior, who are also included in your list? There are two James Lillywhite, both linking to the same article. I suspect that they are father and son, or at any rate two different cricketers. JH (talk page) 19:00, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! That page will go on my Watch list. JH (talk page) 08:17, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great work! That must have been amazingly laborious. I've corrected a few errors that I spotted. I notice that your list only goes back to players making their debuts from about 1880 onwards. Is there any chance that you might extend it back at least as far as the founding of the current club in 1846? JH (talk page) 20:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Somewhen in the next day or two I'll try to cross-check your list against the names shown in the "Surrey cricketers" category as having articles, to see if any of your redlinks already have articles under different versions of their name.

Hi. I confess that I hadn't realised that there was an 1851 Charles Hoare. We could do as you suggest or, since the one who was captain is by far the better known, keep him as Charles Hoare (cricketer) and have something like "Charles Hoare (cricketer), born 1851]]. So long as we include a dablink in each article to the other player, it probably doesn'tt matter too much. JH (talk page) 16:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Appleyard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Appleyard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Arber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Archdale02blythed (talk) 20:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Archdale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audley_Archdall02blythed (talk) 20:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Archer

You're welcome. As I mentioned on WT:CRIC, I'll have a look through at some point, though I can say with a fair amount of confidence that every pre-WW2 Worcs cricketer does have an article; I have them arranged by year of debut at User:Loganberry/Worcs. Some of them may not be under the same titles you use, and in some cases redirects might well be useful. Loganberry (Talk) 23:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. I think part of the reason might be that I've been writing these things for several years, and haven't always used the "Joe Bloggs (born 1730)" method of distinguishing between namesakes, though I've now adopted it as it makes so much sense. The examples that come to mind are of the two George Wilsons, who are under George Alfred Wilson and George Clifford Wilson. Loganberry (Talk) 23:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As for James Turner (Worcestershire cricketer), he's there because there's also a Notts player by the same name. I think I did intend to go back and write the Notts man's article at one point, at least as a stub, but must have got side-tracked. Loganberry (Talk) 23:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Better yet. Thanks! Loganberry (Talk) 23:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

I have disambiguated Inam-ul-Haq. I have never created this kind of page before. I hope this looks ok. I have disambiguated them by the club they played for. I thought this was best as someone thinks of someone from who they played for not when they were born. If disagree then change it. I could not remember the consensus for this. 02blythed. (For some reason I cannot sign my name)

Hello Bobo. I'm not really sure but I would be inclined to rate those players (i.e., in waus1 to waus263) as notable. The competition seems to me to be the equivalent of ListA. Good luck. BlackJack | ^{talk page} 17:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I have changed the links of the above article as some of the ones that appeared to be redlinks did have an article but were linked incorrectly. All the redlinks on the article now are proper red links. I did honestly think I had created all first class/ List A cricketers that were bangladeshi up to the summer of 2007. Obviously I was wrong. It seemed when I first stated I may of accidentally missed a few for some reason as most of them seem to begin with A. I have no real feelings on if the list stays or not I just wanted to make you aware that there were not as many redlinks of bangladeshi cricketers as it first appears. 02blythed ( I cannot sign for some reason which has happened alot recently). 02blythed (talk) 18:48, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I thought i would post the above message just in case you did not have wikiproject cricket on your watchlist so would not get message for a while if at all.

Also I was only looking in at wikipedia quickly because i have a lot of coursework to do and probably will not be able to create any more cricketers until maybe mid January. I may do the odd couple before then but this is not for certain. Sorry. Good luck with you cricketer creations good work. 02blythed (talk) 19:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just before I log off. Thanks for the good luck message and good luck for you with your article creations. 02blythed (talk) 19:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]