Template:Did you know nominations/Palmire Dumont
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:38, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
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Palmire Dumont
Bouboule, by Henri Toulouse-Lautrec
- ... that in Madame Palmyre's lesbian bar, her bulldog Bouboule (pictured), who did not like women, would sometimes urinate on the customers? Source: Mack 1989 p. 250: "Coquiot reports that Bouboule did not share his mistress's fondness for the society of women: the more Madame Palmyre tried to teach him to behave politely to her clients, the more obstinately savage Bouboule became. And if the women who frequented La Souris rashly persisted in fondling him against his will, he would manifest his displeasure by crawling under the table and, with infallible aim, drenching their exposed ankles." [1]
- ALT1: ... that Madame Palmyre was one of the first members of the French Bulldog-Owners Club (Palmyre's dog pictured) and met with other bulldog owners in her lesbian bar? Source: Haraway 2008 [2]: "One of the first members of the French bulldog owners club was Madame Palmyre, the proprietor of the club‘La Souris’ located in the lower reaches of Paris in the area of ‘Mont Martre’ and ‘Moulin Rouge: This was a gathering place for butchers, coachmen, rag traders, café owners, barrow boys, writers, painters, lesbians and hookers. Lesbian writers Renée Vivien and Natalie Clifford Barney and Colette, as well as modernist writers such as Catulle Mendes, Coppée, Henry Cantel, Albert Mérat and Léon Cladel gathered together with bulldogs at La Souris."
- ALT2: ... that Palmire Dumont was a pioneer of LGBT nightlife in "Gay Paree"? Source: Choquette 2016 [3]: Palmyre Dumont [...] pioneered a business formula—the (homo)sexualized nocturnal restaurant and party bar—that would define “Gay Paree” in the interwar period and beyond.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Newent Onion Fayre
- Comment: This was first created by ABF992, and at the same time SusunW and Kusma wrote a draft (now in the history of the redirect Palmire Louise Dumont). We then merged efforts. It would be great to see this on the Main Page during Pride Month!
Additional hook suggestions welcome as usual. There are some sketches of Madamye Palmyre by Henri Toulouse-Lautrec, who was a regular patron of her bar (this could also be used for hooks).
Created by ABF992 (talk), SusunW (talk), and Kusma (talk). Nominated by Kusma (talk) at 21:05, 11 June 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Palmire Dumont; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
Wonderful stuff! I love seeing LGBT history written up this well on Wikipedia. Article was properly new at time of nomination, and easily long enough. Sourcing is thorough, wording is neutral and free from CV or close para. No other concerns about the article. As for hooks, all are sourced, so it's down to which is most interesting. I enjoy the silliness of ALT0, but I wonder if focusing on the dog doesn't overshadow the whole "pioneering lesbain bar owner" aspect. ALT2 is more straightforward about that, but less fun as a result. What if we combine ALT2 with a bit that plays on the source quote for ALT1, something about how her pioneering lesbian bar was known as a meeting place for XYZ classes of people you want to highlight and one ornery bulldog. Then you get the pioneering aspect but also get to be a bit more weird and hooky about it. (I'm deliberately not building the hook so I can review whatever y'all come up with). (Image is free by way of being old, and looks good at DYK size). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you PMC! Here's a new ALT:
- ALT3: ... that Palmire Dumont, a pioneer of LGBT nightlife in "Gay Paree", was among the first members of the French Bulldog-Owners Club (her dog pictured) and met other bulldog owners in her lesbian bar?
- I understand the concerns about putting too much focus on Bouboule. If Toulouse-Lautrec had made as nice pictures of Mme Palmyre as of Bouboule, this would not need a dog. (It is also easy to make hooks that focus too much on Toulouse-Lautrec). Do you think a simple combination as above, putting the "pioneer" first and talking about the dog later, works, or would you prefer further wordsmithing? —Kusma (talk) 09:27, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
