Talk:Sam Peckinpah

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	Sam Peckinpah was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result April 24, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed

There's no detailed account on the death of Sam Peckinpah. Article need to be improved with more information on the subject. --Officer Boscorelli (talk) 21:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dying at the age of 59 seems to deserve a reason. What was the cause of his death? John D Rowe MD (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article wrongly describes the final shootout as follows: "Judd and Westrum stand up to a group of youthful thieves intent on stealing the gold..." But the duo actually have a shootout with a father and his two sons. It so happens one of the sons has a claim on a girl as being his legal wife who deserted him. She takes protection under the two heroes and actually takes a romantic interest in their young sidekick. They refuse to hand her back to her husband and the family ambushes them. The shootout is not about the gold. Therefore, we either provide more details on the plot or we remove completely the (inaccurate) detail about the "thieves intent on stealing the gold". The Gnome 23:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The rating of the Wild Bunch upon re-release is a well documented fact. Paul Seydor, David Weddle mention this. Roger Ebert is an easy "on-line" source who notes this fact.

When this happened, it garnered mention from everyone from Entertainment Tonight to legit sources...

Google, LexisNexis, JSTOR... seek... 205.244.12.166 07:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)dude who wrote the Dillenger stub[reply]

I would like to propose that the Cleanup Tag on this article be removed. In my opinion this article appears to be balanced and reasonably well-written. --Zenexp 00:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the article is balanced. "There can be no doubt that Peckinpah singlehandedly created the modern action genre"? or "Fans consider "Bring me the Head of Alfredo Garcia as the last true Peckinpah movie?" -Josh

Here's why the article crosses the border into POV-land, many times over. Because the text contains remarks such as this : "...he used the telephoto lens to great effect, and was a pioneer in the use of flash cuts, and the intercutting of normal, slow and very slow motion shots during action scenes - a style which has been much imitated, but rarely equalled, ever since, by directors such as Walter Hill, John Woo, and others." The Gnome 23:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is often noted that he had some degree of American Indian ancestry, since he made westerns. Care to redact this? -- Error

Yes--or rather his sister cares to refute it. She specifically denies the rumor in a bonus interview on the Ride the High Country DVD.

I'll make a note in the article. Ellsworth 19:45, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to https://www.geni.com/people/Sam-Peckinpah/6000000022132131469 the ancisters are from Germany more south, not from the Frisian Isles! It seems, they are from Heidelberg or Hassia (Hessen). The Name Peckinpah (earlier: Peckinpaugh) origins from the german Beckenbach ("for fun" literally translatedin: "Basin Creek", but should have other origins, maybe a small village with name Beckenbach or Bickenbach, like lot villages in Germany have such a name with such a ...bach (Creek, little river) at the end.). See also: Edwin T Brace, Atha Peckenpaugh Brace: Peckinpaughs Pickenpaughs Beckenbaughs Peckinpahs and Peckenpaughs: Descendants of Johann Adam & Anna Maria Beckenbach Gateway Press, 1975 ISBN 9901- 97-9349-291-1. Someone may fix it. English is not my native language Alberich21 (talk) 16:11, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It says he joined the Marines in 1943, and that he saw acts of war between Chinese and Japanese soldiers to include torture, and they were not allowed to intervene. But since the end of 1941, the US was in a state of war with Japan. I doubt that a) if his unit witnessed such things, they would have been forbidden to intervene b) that the Japanese would have been oblivious to US Marines witnessing their activities - if they had noticed US Marines in the area, they would have engaged them. Something about this sounds like fantasy. Nobunaga24 02:35, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If They Move... Kill 'Em, David Weddle's Peckinpah biography, mentions public torture and executions between the Nationalists and communists in China while he was there, maybe that's what it was referring to. Mark Grant 01:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That would seem to make much more sense. If that's correct, it should be changed.--Nobunaga24 02:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where does the info come from that The Wild Bunch was rated NC-17 on it's 25th Anniversary (which would be about 1994). According to the MPAA website's ratings database, the only rating it has ever had is R.Largo1965 14:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

File:Ride the High County Poster.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:268396.1020.A.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm failing this nomination for reasons that I've noted on the article itself: there are at least two long unreferenced sections, plus another that is essentially trivia. I would have given the article more of a chance, and provided longer and more involved feedback, but I have just noticed that this is a "drive-by" nomination by an editor who has not so far contributed to the article. As such, I doubt that it is likely to be improved significantly in response to my (or anybody else's) comments. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 19:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image File:Cross Iron.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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According to the article he was married to Begoña Palacios from 1965 to 1984) and Joie Gould from 1971 to 1972 how exactly did that work? Are the dates wrong? According to the article at the moment he's a polygamist... ;) Altairantares (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Themes and Influences sections are entirely unsourced and have had an improvement tag for nearly 2 years. The section contains some reasonable stuff, but is mared with incredible fawning overblown rhetoric (which would be fine, if it had any cites). Anyone who wants to keep these sections should add the cites now, to avoid deletion or at least an extreme parinig down of the sections. Ashmoo (talk) 12:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like NPOV tags and others were removed without concensus. Review of the article history reveals one anon user (82.80.43.39) did a tremendous expansion of the article in January 2006, also introducing much of the enthusiastic fanpov materials. The vast majority of the edits since were done by anon user(s)with ips beginning with 70.251, all of them between July and October 2007, adding much detailed content and several links. Overall, the article still has these multiple problems, and requires citing and serious culling.TjoeC (talk) 12:39, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

sn — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.10.66.237 (talk) 04:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to add an item to the Themes section, mentioning the Amity / Enmity Complex as contributing to Peckinpah's views on human nature. Strother Martin is known to have given Peckinpah copies of two Robert Ardrey books, including African Genesis, and this is reputed to have influenced Sam's depictions of weaponry and group dynamics. (Consider Pike's efforts to hold "this bunch" together when it is threatened by internal strife, and how they naturally come together when faced by a common threat.)

I have several sources on Martin's gift of the books, and can identify Ardreyan themes in The Wild Bunch, but want to conduct more research before committing a whole section to this. So I'm vetting the idea now (knowing that there is some ideological resistance to the AEC), on the off-chance it might upset any neutrality-contesters. Perhaps if more than one person researches and contributes to it, an impartial result can be achieved.

Thoughts? Byff (talk) 05:28, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you can source it, that's fine, although the Themes section is in greater need of sourcing as it is. Adding such a topic runs a risk of getting too academic for a general-purpose encyclopedia, and the article is rather long as it is. A sentence or two might be all that's needed, plus a link to another article, if it exists. Elkoref (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

God! Please don't. There's enough "teenage essay" style drivel in this article already. A request: Please keep this sort of nonsense for your schoolteachers and make articles like this strictly factual and unbiased. "Ardreyan themes" ?! (I choke) dear God spare me! There may be a time and a place for this sort of navel gazing introspective nonsense, but that is not here. John2o2o2o (talk) 01:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article would be vastly improved by making the references clearer and easier to read. Since so many citations are for the same two books, I suggest using the "short footnote" format, adding a "Notes" section to make this work. I don't see a full citation for the Weddle book anywhere, so that's another small problem. Elkoref (talk) 09:38, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and made the change to "short footnote", on hearing no objection. I don't think I stepped on anyone else's changes as I was doing my copy-and-paste editing, but I could have introduced a few mistakes of my own. Other editors should have no trouble following this format; even if you still use the previous "ref" format, it will still work, and I can always jump back in to maintain consistency, assuming people accept the look. We have a readable reference list now, anyway.

The only other change was to take out a few links I thought were excessive and off-point - just because a term comes up for which a Wikipedia article exists, it doesn't mean there has to be a link to it. (I did change "desert in Nevada" to "Valley of Fire", though that's about it). Elkoref (talk) 02:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I work in the film industry and am well aware of dialog directors (as well as dialect directors, something else entirely.) But in standard terminology, I am unfamiliar with the term "dialog coach." The dialog director does indeed coach the actors with their dialog (basically running lines with them), but I've never heard one called a dialog coach. Monkeyzpop (talk) 11:38, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have. The books on Peckinpah are inconsistent on this point, but they seem to describe him as an all-around assistant to director Don Siegel. I expect you haven't heard of someone hired to work with the actors doing that, either. The IMDb is inconsistent as well, but "dialogue coach" is the title given to Peckinpah on most of the five films he worked on for Siegel from 1954 to 1956. I assume he was hired as an assistant or a dialogue coach, but his role expanded. Ironically his best-known onscreen credit for those films was as an actor himself, particularly his small part as Charlie, the meter reader in Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956). - Gothicfilm (talk) 23:38, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added the "Further reading" section so we could add book titles not (yet) cited in the article, and to be able to get rid of some awkwardness in the previous "Biographies" section, which wasn't all biographies, had a mix of books and films, and featured a citation that wasn't quite right. I hope calling it "Documentaries" will suffice, since that's all that's there now. The appropriate thing would be to move an item from this new section to "References" should it become a citation.

I also moved the Biography boxes out of the "See also" section to "External links" after noticing how it was done in other articles. If anyone has an idea what to put in "See also" now, go for it. Looks like it's meant for categories or related articles not already linked. If not, we can just delete it. Elkoref (talk) 00:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Spouses section on the info box, Peckinpah was married to _two_ women from 1971-2. Cute. Love the scholarship! 73 JP3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.243.39.42 (talk) 06:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Yeah, I really got into Peckinpah during the resurgence in popularity during the 1990s and I never read anything nor saw any documentary that stated this. However, I could see him doing it, if for no other reason than he was fucked up on booze and drugs.User:JCHeverly 17:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good bio article. You hit all the significant points in his career. And you do mention the bio-doc "Sam Peckinpah: Man of Iron." I think your article would be better if you referenced that more. There is so much info directly from so many of the then living members of the Peckinpah stock company that would really flesh this article out. For instance, his decade long paramour/common law wife Katie Haber has much to say about the period from "Straw Dogs" through "Convoy", such as his increased dependence on both cocaine and barbituates. L.Q. Jones has much to say about his films and the actual script writing and direction. Bob Visiglia, the prop man on most of his films, talks about how he knew that Peckinpah "had slipped" on "Cross of Iron" when he both had amnesia about a week's work of of shooting he had just finished and his failure to realize "the picture was over" during a conversation right after the film wrapped. Kris Kristofferson,, Haber, and Exec Producer Michael Deeley talk about Peckinpah's total paranoia and inability to function on "Convoy". Longtime Peckinpah film editor Garth Craven and Exec Producer Danny Melnick talk about his masterful work in the editing room. RG Armstrong talks about having worked with Peckinpah from the "Rifleman" TV series right on through most of his career and how he changed personally and professionally. . .Again, here is so much good info about this man in that bio-doc that the article really suffers from not including it. User:JCHeverly 17:28, August 6, 2013

Using the documentary further is a good idea for expanding the article. Binksternet (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr1G-lh7mJU&list=PLjTY-d6xLEgeQDxLWXK6yaOl7PigMvKHi — Preceding unsigned comment added by JCHeverly (talk • contribs) 02:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC) User:JCHeverly 02:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, It's interesting. I saw this documentary 20 years ago on what was then known as the Arts and Entertainment Channel. But it was a different doc. The skeleton of this doc was in it but Arts and Entertainment intercut scenes of the Peckinpah movies being discussed in the doc. For example, during the discussion of the violence in "The Wild Bunch," there was a cut to Warren Oates firing the Browning Water Cooled machine gun in the Nattle of the Bloody Porch Scene. It was so much better. I wonder if A and E still sells this doc in its product catalog or it has mysteriously disappeared???User:JCHeverly 02:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know that long time Peckinpah confidant Jim Silke has said that Peckinpah went to the Murray Hotel right after Peckinpah was discharged from the local hospital after treatment for a heart attack. But for the last five years of his life??? Warren Oates had a ranch in Montana and, I believe I read in _If They Move... Kill 'Em!": The Life and Times of Sam Peckinpah_ by David Weddle, that Peckinpah lived there for awhile. But didn't he really live a kind of nomadic existence that last five years??? Right near the end of his life he lived in Las Vegas because he said he wanted to do a documentary on the World Series of Poker. Just sayin' . . . User:JCHeverly 17:18, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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