Talk:Lambert Automobile Company

	Lambert Automobile Company was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result July 2, 2022 Good article nominee Listed February 26, 2023 Good article reassessment Delisted
	A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on December 22, 2008. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that John W. Lambert (pictured) in 1891 made the first U.S. car for sale as well as Union cars and Lambert cars using his gasoline engines and gearless transmissions for the Union car company and Lambert car company as subsidiaries of the Buckeye Manufacturing Company?
Current status: Delisted good article

This orphaned talk page, subpage, image page, or similar is not eligible for speedy deletion under CSD G8 as it has been asserted to be useful to Wikipedia. If you believe it should be deleted, please nominate it on Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Lambert Automobile Company/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Firefangledfeathers (talk · contribs) 03:16, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again Doug Coldwell! I am eager to work with you on this article. I read it once and enjoyed it. I have some source review and re-reading to do, and should have some initial comments for you within 24 hours or so. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:16, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   See notes below.

   Issues now addressed.

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   See notes below.

   Issues now addressed.

   C. It contains no original research:

   See notes below.

   Issues now addressed.

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   See notes below.

   Issues now addressed.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Review on hold for a week to give time for the below items to be addressed. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

   All issues addressed. This is a pass! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:19, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Overall
  • The Lambert automobile itself probably deserves its own section, summarizing its main article

•  Done

• Lead

•  Done

• • Infobox image needs a caption

•  Done

• • "through the governing" is a bit awkward. "as a part of the governing"?

•  Done

• • "Production of vehicles manufactured by the company had been from 1905-1915." How about "The company manufactured vehicles from 1905 to 1915"?

•  Done

• • Comma after "thousand employees"

•  Done

• • Subjects that need summary in the lead: John W. Lambert, the Lambert automobile, the friction drive, and (if the body continues to feature this heavily) more about the tractor.

•  Done

Stopping here for now. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:48, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• History
  • Dolnar says "The first Lambert Automobile" was sold in 1905, but it's not clear from the source that a company name change has happened, or that it happened in 1905 specifically. Can this be supported by a different source?

 Done

The Antique Automobile - Volumes 24-25 - Page 344 says, By 1905, he formed the Lambert Automobile Company of Anderson , Indiana , and the Union Company went out of existence. The new car designed and built to John Lambert's specifications began an eleven - year manufacture of automobiles.

• • "A better quality automobile ..." this sentence needs rewriting for clarity

 Done c/e -> A technological advanced automobile was then manufactured from the Union automobile design.

• • "The Lambert Automobile Company came about by automotive pioneer John William Lambert." → "Automotive pioneer John William Lambert started the "Lambert Automobile Company"

 Done

• • Didn't Lambert start Union as well. This seems a bit late for his intro.

 Done

• • "In the eleven years from 1905 through 1916 the company manufactured not only automobiles but trucks, fire engines and farm tractors." Just the year range or "eleven years after 1905" would work here.

 Done

• Lambert automobile

• • "One of the main features ..." It's not clear here that the transmission was Lambert's invention. This needs some expansion.

 Done

• • No comma after "bodies"

 Done

• • Is Lucendo reliable? It looks to be self-published.

 Done Jorge Lucendo is a historian that has written several books. I consider him a reliable source. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Jorge Lucendo books

That's a lot of books! They all look to be self-published. Is this a "established subject-matter expert" situation? Can we prove his bona fides and find any use of his work by others? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 12:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good Question. I will research that out and see what I can come up with. The first thing I did was in Google I typed Wiki "Jorge Lucendo" and came up with several instances where other Wikipedia editors from around the world used him for a reference for the articles they created, apparently on the fact they also considered him a reliable source as a historian. I'll research some more to see what else I can find.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:41, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Typing "Jorge Lucendo" into WorldCat I get 17 hits of books published around the world in languages other than English where he is the author. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Amazon has 23 books in various languages for sale worldwide that are authored by Jorge Lucendo as a historian.

*Barnes & Noble also has 23 books in various languages for sale worldwide that are authored by Jorge Lucendo as a historian.

*SCRIBD has FOUR E-Books and 27 Documents related to Jorge Lucendo as a historian. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Doug, before you keep going, I'm mainly looking for publication by a reputable publisher, or citation by other historians (or maybe news articles). He is clearly a prolific self-published writer, but I don't think volume is evidence of reliability. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

•  Done - provided news clip references accordingly. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:45, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Is Harrigan reliable? It's on the "Opinion Page".

 Done - - provided news clip references accordingly.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:49, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stopped here. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• The Herald Bulletin source is too closely paraphrased.

•  Done - reworded. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Lambert Steel Hoof Tractor
  • I can't access the Wendell source except via preview, but it appears from the table of contents that it's organized alphabetically by manufacturer. Is the relevant content really on page 1?

•  Done - Replaced with similar Wendel source with link to page 331.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:42, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Some redundant info in the first sentence

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Text in this section is copied from Motor Age. It was published in the US before 1927, so it's in the public domain. Please rewrite, or attribute this content as described at WP:FREECOPY

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Ditto for the 1913 advertisement.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Was the tractor definitely built by the Lambert Automobile Company? The sources I can see frequently credit the overarching Buckeye, and the Call-Leader source mentions the existence of a Lambert Tractor Company.

•  Done -Yes, I understand the tractor as a product of the Lambert Automobile Company which manufactured automobiles under the Buckeye Manufactured Company as the parent company. The 1913 advertisement says, In short, the Lambert Tractor is the Automobile Truck of modern farming. Just previous in the paragraph it describes the vehicle having rubber tires and running on paved streets = pretty much like what an automobile does. In other words, I see the tractor as a "hybrid" vehicle that can operate as an automobile, truck, or tractor. I see it as a product of the Lambert Automobile Company. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Coldwell: I don't mean to dispute that the tractor can be considered an automobile. I've seen at least one other source describe it as an "automobile tractor". But I do wonder which source says it was produced by the Lambert Automobile Company, and not some other subsidiary of Buckeye. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:51, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Firefangledfeathers: Source #6 (The Herald Bulletin) says, In addition to producing automobiles, Lambert was responsible for the making of auto fire engines, gasoline engines, and steel-hoof farm tractors. In this case "Lambert" means Lambert Automobile Company when reading the complete paragraph from the source. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:17, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a fair reading. Let's call this  Done. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:24, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • For this segment with all the Lamberts, please use John W. Lambert's first name for clarity.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:35, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • "In one advertisement that came out in 1913 it said that" → "An advertisement from 1913 said that"

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:35, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• That's it! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• @Firefangledfeathers: All issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:47, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Will do, Doug! Thanks for the promptness! FYI, your ping fix didn't work, and it's always harder than it should be. Check out H:PINGFIX for some suggestions. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Doug Coldwell, can you review the changes I made in this copyedit? And can you please move the WWI info out of §Lambert automobile and into §Demise? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:32, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Overall
  • Please add descriptive alt text to the images.

•  Done

• • Please review for MOS:DASH and MOS:RANGE fixes

•  Done

• Lead
  • Lowercase m for "Automobile Manufacturing" in infobox

•  Done

• History
  • Please cite specific page numbers for the multi-page sources (e.g. Dolnar)

•  Done

• Lambert automobile
  • You can drop the word "different"

•  Done

Stopped here. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See also
  • Both links are or should be used earlier in the body and should be removed from here per MOS:NOTSEEALSO.

•  Done

All done! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The information about the demise/closure of the company is on this page and another related GA page, Buckeye Manufacturing Company, is inconsistent.

• This page was nominated for GA and accepted on 3 July 2022 (and says defunct in 1916 in the infobox and 1917 in the text) and says that Buckeye Manufacturing Company stopped manufacturing automobile parts permanently in 1922.
• The page Buckeye Manufacturing Company was nominated for GA and accepted on 6 June 2022 and has defunct in 1917 in the infobox and under "Demise" says that that is when they stopped making "Lambert vehicles" and they were a defence facility from 1917 to 1919 then renamed "Lambert Incorporated". Gusfriend (talk) 08:30, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is part of Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/20210315 and the Good article (GA) drive to reassess and potentially delist over 200 GAs that might contain copyright and other problems. An AN discussion closed with consensus to delist this group of articles en masse, unless a reviewer opens an independent review and can vouch for/verify content of all sources. Please review Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/February 2023 for further information about the GA status of this article, the timeline and process for delisting, and suggestions for improvements. Questions or comments can be made at the project talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]