Talk:Blackness Castle

	Blackness Castle was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result December 21, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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The original content of this article is from http://www.forts.org.uk/, posted by the author, John Bray. See Talk:Fort Charlotte for a confirmation. Lupo 15:58, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The castle is rumoured to have been used in the filming of Hamlet and Braveheart. ???? Either it was in the film, or it wasn't, in which case its not worth mentioning. And which version of Hamlet? ::Supergolden:: 11:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's the 1990 Mel Gibson version; I don't remember it in Braveheart, but I'm pretty sure it was used for Carrick in The Bruce. [1] AJN 11:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was used in The Bruce. I was there when it was being filmed, not that this counts as a source for Wikipedia. I am sure someone can find it written down somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.30.228 (talk) 20:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found a reference which confirms the "rumour" that Hamlet was filmed in the castle. However, I've removed the Braveheart reference until a source can be found pertaining to that info. --Vamos01 15:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

1:

• First paragraph of the lead is one sentence long and is largely redundant to first sentence of second paragraph, “a 15th century fortress, near the village of Blackness, Scotland” and “Built in the 1440s by Sir George Crichton, the castle is adjacent to Blackness”, respectively.
  • Fixed
• ”Filming location” section is a trivia section, which is discouraged.
  • This isn't trivia, as its focused on a single subject, but Ive taken up your "Present use" section suggestion from below.
• Number agreement issues, e.g. “The castle … were annexed”
  • I fixed this one, cant see any others
• Commas needed for co-ordinate adjectives (e.g. “long narrow shape” should be “long, narrow shape”), parenthetical phrases (e.g. George’s cousin William, was …” should be “George’s cousin, William, was …” and to offset clauses such as “by this time” and “between 1759 and 1815”.
  • Hopefully i've got all of these.
• Heavy use of jargon, e.g. spur, caponier, crenellations, parapet, etc. These terms should be defined within the article to assist readability/accessibility to laymen readers not familiar with such specialized vocabulary.
  • I've addressed these, although I dont think "spur" is jargon, as its just a description of the shape of the extension. "Parapet" isnt particularly technical either.
• Peacock words, e.g. “most powerful Scottish families”, “massive programme” and several instances of “important prisoners”. They were powerful in terms of what (land, influence, etc)? Massive in terms of number of fortifications strengthened, money invested, etc? Prisoners were important in terms of what (notability, etc)?
  • Addressed these by removing or rewording
• Per WP:MOS, images should not sandwich text (as “plan” and “central tower” photos do). I would recommend removing the “south wall” image, as it doesn’t really contribute to the article, and replacing it with the “central tower” photo.
  • I dont really want to take stuff out of the article. But the way it looks on my monitor, nearly all the images "sandwich" text.
• Awkward phrasing, e.g. “curtain wall was thickened internally” – does that mean they built inward as opposed to outward?
  • Yes it does. Can't think of a better way to put this.
• Inconsistent language used to describe “levels” (i.e. both “floors” and “storeys” are used). One or the other, not both, should be used.
  • standardised to "storeys" though I'm not sure why this is an issue.
• Per WP:UNITS, translations between US and metric units are generally provided.
  • Provided

3:

• Article implies Blackness was built to replace Sir George’s tower at Barton. Why was this tower not rebuilt instead? Article needs to explicitly state why Blackness was built.
  • This isn't implied. The destruction of Barnton is only mentioned in passing. Lead clearly implies that Blackness Castle was built next to an important port, also added that it was probably on site of an earlier building.
• Article states work was largely halted upon the death of James V. What remained incomplete?
  • I have no idea.
• Article states “artillery technology had improved again”, but has no discussion of the previous improvements in this technology, only defensive technology.
  • Fixed inconsistency
• Description of Finnart as "the illegitimate son of the Earl of Arran, and one of Scotland's renaissance men" does not adequately describe the man as he pertains to this article.
  • I think "King's Master of Works", and "an expert in artillery fortification" do, though.
• Did anything happen between 1650 and 1667?
  • Not that I have seen mentioned. I assume that the castle was unused following its reduction by Cromwell.
• ”Later years” section says “when it was reused as a prison” and later says “was again pressed into service as a prison” but does not discuss cessation of being a prison between those assertions.
  • Surely its implicit that it wasn't a prison in between? I don't have dates of when it "closed" as a prison.
• Article states central tower was built in 15th century and that the floors “were linked by a 17th century stair tower”. How were they linked in the 15th and 16th centuries?
  • with stairs
• Superfluous information, e.g. “the upper chamber had a fireplace”, “outside the tower is a well”, etc.
  • Part of architetural description, not superfluous.
• Article mentions garrison numbers and presence of gun platforms, but does not discuss Blackness’ armament.
  • I have no idea what armaments were maintained at Blackness, and no idea how to find out.
• Article should provide scale information (e.g. site acreage, height of towers, walls, etc) and discuss use today (e.g. formal museum or just a site one may walk through at their leisure). A “Current usage” section would also allow the aforementioned trivia section to be meaningfully integrated.
  • Agreed, a current use section has been added. Plan scale info is on the site plan. Will add heights.

4:

• Suspected NPOV violation – “A heavy-handed programme”
  • Reworded

General:

• It appears additional content and clarification of prose is needed. Please let me know if elaboration or assistance is needed. Ɛƚƈơƅƅơƚɑ _talk 16:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • I've tried to address the points in the article, and commented above where I can't, or disagree with the reviewer. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 16:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

photo showing the ship that sailed is very interesting. Perhaps and even higher shot (google earth?) or a map that shows the castle in context of the lake or ocean or whatever would be helpful. I found myself wondering about that.TCO (talk) 23:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Blackness Castle, Blackness, Scotland.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on December 26, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-12-26. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of the day

Blackness Castle is a fortress located on the south shore of the Firth of Forth near Blackness, Scotland. Built by Sir George Crichton in the 1440s, the castle passed to King James II of Scotland in 1453. During its more than 500 years as crown property, the castle has served as a prison, artillery fortification, and ammunition depot. The castle is now a Scheduled Ancient Monument, in the care of Historic Scotland.Photograph: John Wells

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