Talk:Bhojpuri language/Archive 1

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Archive 1

(Archived. COMMENT DELETED: TOTALLY OFF TOPIC AND USER BANNED. 02:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC) --Thnidu (talk))

-----Please note, I have [[Repetitive Strain Injury]] and find typing very hard. I use a form of shorthand, which may be difficult to understand. I can be contacted through MSN (sven70) or Skype (sven0921) if my meaning is unclear. (talk) 10:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

(Archived 01:36, 27 August 2015 (UTC) --Thnidu (talk))

parichay das is welknown writer ,thinker,editor in bhojpuri literarture. he is pioneer poet in contemporary bhojpuri poetry.bhojpuri post-post modern poetry begins from his writings. 'chaaruta','ek nayaa vinyaas','sansad bhavan ki chhat per khadaa ho ke', 'prithivi se ras le ke','yugpat sameekaran me','akaksha se adhik satvar',dhoosar kavita','kavita chaturthi', 'lipi-alipi'. etc are his poetry collections. he is editor of 'parichhan' -maithili-bhojpuri magazine,published from maithili-bhojpuri academy,delhi govt. he is also editor of 'indra prasth bhaarti'-hindi magazine, published from hindi academy,delhi govt. he is secretary, maithili-bhojpuri academy,delhi govt. and secretary,hindi academy,delhi govt.he was born in rampur devlaas village [mau district's mohammadabad tehseel in uttar pradesh ,india].

A recent publication (2009) 'Bhojpuri-Lok Sahitya: Lok Geeton Ki Samajik Sanskritik Sandarbh Evam Prishthbhumi" (Bhojpuri Folk Literature: Social and Cultural Landscape of Folk Songs) by Dr. Dharmveer Singh (Publisher: Chaukhamba Sanskrit Bhavan, P.O. Box 1160, Chowk, Varanasi-221001, India) contains an exhaustive research on the historical and social background of the origin and temporal development of this language in greatest detail. This book is exhaustive in its approach and is a gem for anyone who is interested in Bhojpuri as a language. The most impressive aspect of the book is the collection of folk-songs that the author has gleaned from various sources. With the advent of modern technology and effect of cinema, these folk-songs are becoming extinct. This book preserves not only the songs in a written form but also provides the context in which they should be viewed and appreciated.

Clearly promotional, but maybe something could be done with it. 173.248.196.56 (talk) 07:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Translation--D-Boy 19:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I highly doubt the number of speakers presented here. OK, the exact boundaries of Bhojpuri are not 100% clear, but ethnologue.com gives only 27 million (1997). Properly the figures given here are from Bihari languages, but there are no sources. That's why I added the unsourced-tag. --Jeroenvrp 16:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who wants to change the number of speakers needs to give some reliable source. Ethnologue gives 25 million for 1997. That probably has increased, although the increase in regional population has to be balanced against possible decrease in percentage speaking regional languages (rather than Hindi) among the young. Nonetheless, the 150 million figure is taken from thin air and total nonsense. Interlingua 02:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I have changed that number, citing Ethnologue OCCASVS (talk) 18:43, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

hi friends "jai bhojpuria" i am from nepal and my mothertongue is very close to bhojpuri some people call it bajjika while some say i speak magahi...i want to say one thing is that why should all the deswaali language speaker need to find a separate identity for themselves?? look at punjaabi..all the punjaabi dialects that are very different from each other love and feel to call their language as "punjaabi"..and possibly thats the reason for its expansion and pride associated with the language....what i wanna say is that all the Bhojpuri/Awadhi/Maithili/Bajjika/Khorta/Angika/Magahi/Tharu etc languages must find a common term to refer to their language...i think "Deswaali" is better term to refer to these languages than calling these all as "Bihari". Remind you that the term "Bihari" is not liked by many even in Bihar, forget about Nepal,UP, Jharkhand etc..so people to make our languages stronger lets unite and start referring to our languages that are very similar by one term ,,that is "DESWAALI" bhasha..and also that while speaking Hindi use as much "Deswaali" words as possible..for example look at Punjaabis they have made their words so common in Hindi that everybody can understand them by using them more often..like kudi for girl; munda for boy; etc why cant we make "ChauRa" for boy and "ChauRi" for girl popular in Hindi? similarly there are plenty of ways to make our language expand.. think about this...if u agree or disagree mail me : scyfie@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.73.53 (talk) 22:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I know that there were Bhojpuri-speaking immigrants to Fiji, and that Fiji Hindustani has Bhojpuri influence, but unlike Caribbean Hindustani (which is Bhojpuri), Fiji Hindustani is a dialect of Awadhi. As Ethnologue only mentions Fiji Hindi as a language of Fiji, I've removed Fiji from the list of countries with Bhojpuri-speaking populations. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 08:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

The "spoken in" section doesn't show any states, but they do appear in the code. What's going on? saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 09:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I took the liberty of correcting the English (articles weren't used consistently and there was inappropriate capitalization) and linguistic notation (the /phoneme/ [realization] <orthographic representation> system wasn't used) of the phonology section. However, there are still some gaps. Does anyone know what /q/, /x/, /ɣ/, /z/ and /f/ merge with? I assume /k/, /kʰ/, /gʰ/, /s/ and /pʰ/? A reliable source on Bhojpuri phonology would also be a plus. If anyone wants to add more to the section, feel free. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 10:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

We have to differentiate what speaking a language means on these articles on Wikipedia! Does speaking a few words mean the same thing as speaking a complete language? There are very few people if any left in the Caribbean who can peak any languages that originated with them from India. Individual might know a few words relating to family, food and religion and maybe a sentence, but NO ONE SPEAKS ANYTHING CLOSE TO A COMPLETE INDIAN LANGUAGE. The only people who might be able to speak any Hindi language in the Caribbean region are the Hindu Pundits for religious reasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.172.26 (talk) 20:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

This is true for Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago, but in Suriname there is still a thriving Bhojpuri speech community, at least according to Ethnologue saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 10:02, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

In the "Writing scripts" section, there is a paragraph dedicated to a very recent publication. This paragraph is quite biased, listing the incredible qualities of the publication, which, in a Wikipedia article, quite out of place. I deleted the paragraph. --Austro I'm listening 01:47, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I also deleted another 2 paragraphs which looked like spam and/or advertising. --Austro I'm listening 02:00, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

The article Mauritius says that English is the consitutional language, and French, English, Hindustani and Creole are de facto languages. Bhojpuri is not mentioned. / Habj 00:05, 29 October 2005 (UTC) It's not really recognised in Mauritius...Hindi is taught instead but the people still know BhojpuriDomsta333 10:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The "Hindi" spoken in Mauritius is actually Bhojpuri, that's why. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 05:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

If you are a native speaker of Bhojpuri then you can help translate this template into your own language:

Edit

--Amazonien (talk) 04:50, 20 January 2009 (UT

---

PARICHAY DAS IS AN EMINENT WRITER IN BHOJPURI

---

PARICHAY DAS : 09968269237 [mobile] 137,din apartments,sector-4,plot-7,dwarka,new delhi-110078 ,india

PARICHAY DAS is an eminent writer in bhojpuri.he is secretary,maithili-bhojpuri academy,delhi government and secretary, hindi academy,delhi above 20 books have been published . post modern poetry of bhojpuri starts from his writings.parichay das is ph.d.he has two children - samaasinee and aratrik.his wife vndandana srivastava is artist . parichay das's father rajendra lal and mother madhuri srivastava stays in village-rampur devlaas, dist -mau,uttar pradesh,india.brother 's name is satish and sisters name are-kiran [dinesh],renu [rajesh].

---

friends as i have learned and researched about Bhojpuri and Hindi. i have found that originally bhojpuri is dialect of Hindi like other boli (braj, rajasthani, haryanvi) and so on. these bolies are mother of Hindi languages. as Hindi have so many words from these known and unknown bolies.

This is the main reason for spread of Hindi speakers. one can go in any hindi speaking state. may be rajasthan , people speak rajasthani or local languages but when the encounter different person whom he don't know whether he belong to same boli they speak hindi. specially spoken in cities. these bolies are root of Hindi languages. That is why we should keep it feeding inspite of cutting it away from its trunk.

I belong to Allahabad and in home we speak bhojpuri. hindi is my mothertoungue as bhojpuri. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yaduvanshiji (talk • contribs) 19:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's true under a political definition. But that's just because Bhojpuri isn't recognized officially in any of the countries where it's spoken. Linguistically, it's quite clearly a distinct language from Hindi. The whole idea of "dialect" (or "boli" as you're saying) is used to discriminate against less politically powerful languages, as the saying goes "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy". Braj Bhasa and Haryanvi are both recognized as distinct languages from Hindi-Urdu by linguists, and Rajasthani is often considered a language family.

Tell me, why is Urdu a separate language from Hindi when Bhojpuri is not? Linguistically, it makes no sense. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 08:24, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Bhojpuri has its roots in eastern Uttar Pradesh and not Bihar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.183.147 (talk) 17:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi! First of all, may i ask, to which bhojpuri region you do belong? Standard or it's dialects? I think, you don't belong to any of either. Bhojpuri is NOT A BIHARI LANGUAGE!! It is more similar to Awadhi, Braj and Hindi rather than Magahi, Maithili or Angika which tends to be more Bengali like. I speak bhojpuri in my everyday life. I don't find any direct similarity in bihari languages and bhojpuri if except a constructed dialect chain and if it is, the Hindi and Bengali must be of same zone?? Moreover, i've cited a powerful explanation for that (in comparing dialects of hindi) but still you reverted my changes. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN, UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE ME WRONG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.151.243.78 (talk) 17:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Everyday experiences are often misleading for things like this. There is a source that says Bhojpuri is part of the Bihari languages (Ethnologue). The burden of evidence (i.e. reliable source) is on you, and so far you have not provided any. --JorisvS (talk) 20:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Bhojpuri people doesn't have significant coverage in English secondary sources (I have searched for it), albeit I think it merits a mention in Bhojpuri language. The only the page has is this which has dubious reliability. Feel free to comment. Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 08:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

What about non-English-language sources? We are not limited to sources in English (although they are, obviously, preferred). --JorisvS (talk) 11:31, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I admit I couldn't search for them. I don't know how to speak Indo-Aryan Bihari languages let alone read them online. Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 11:38, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Me neither. Anyway, we normally have separate articles about the language and about the people who speak it. That's why I would prefer to keep these ones also separate. --JorisvS (talk) 12:12, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think the point is that a variety of language does not necessarily have an associated ethnicity. We speak of General American, but there is no "General American people" who are defined by speaking it. A website may be dedicated to language rights, but that doesn't mean there's an associated ethnicity either. If Bhojpuri were accepted as a dialect of Hindi, would the ethnicity vanish? If we have no sources that there is a Bhojpuri people, then I see no reason not to merge or delete the article. — kwami (talk) 19:24, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. It wouldn't be a merge, though, if we don't know if there is actually such a thing as a 'Bhojpuri people', because we shouldn't mention it on the language article if we don't know if such a people even exist. --JorisvS (talk) 19:45, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, but if there were s.t. of value on that page about speakers of Bhojpuri (there isn't), we could merge that part of it. — kwami (talk) 05:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• AFAIK there is some coverage of the expression "Bhojpuri People" esp. in Mauritius and Indian subcontinent, hence my proposal to merge. But I am not sure if it has much to do with ethnicity. Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 08:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I removed Nastaliq at two places because consensus scholarly opinion is that this Indian language called Bhojpuri is a Prakrit language with only Kaithi and Devanagari scripts. It has no root or script basis in Arabic / Persian. Bhojpuri was called Eastern Hindi in the 19th century (see A.F.R. Hoernle's 1880 paper on Bhojpuri, published by Philo Press, Amsterdam). It has been studied in 20th century as a distinct language. Nastaliq script has been and is found in Pakistan in local languages related to its Islamic population, not in Bhojpuri-speaking parts of the world. I have added a reference that discusses this at length. Anyone adding Nastaliq to the article should provide a reliable scholarly source. Veronica Dryer (talk) 22:47, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I have re-cleaned up this article. For anyone with time and interest in improving this article, please see citations I have added. Also: The origin and development of Bhojpuri, Udai Narain Tiwari. The entire book of 200+ pages has zero mention of Nastaliq. Veronica Dryer (talk) 20:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Nastaliq was officially used in whole of North india including the bhojpuri region. All official works were done in this script. Even hindi was written in nastaliq. This is what today known as urdu. Devnagri was adopted later on to restore its traditional script used before islamic rule in india. - Mywikieditbh

Mywikieditbh - If that is true, you should be able to find a few verifiable published sources, within wikipedia's WP:RS guidelines, that confirm your claim about Bhojpuri and Nastaliq. Veronica Dryer (talk) 02:06, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Who uses this term? Any one who speaks Bhojpuri doesn't use it. No linguistic with any knowledge uses it. The article itself says there are more people in UP speaking Bhojpuri than in Bihar. IMO, the only people using "Bihari" are non-bhojpuri speaking but english speaking people who don't know anything and couldn't care less about accuracy. And the media that caters to them. And a bunch of regionalistic biharis who want to claim the word out of proud.

And no, it's roots are NOT in "Bihari". Give me any Reliable Source or I will replace such bogus terms from the lead and put them somewhere down under "miscategorizations". The only link (from EB) doesn't withhold.--Jahilia (talk) 02:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)i love bhoj puri i am from chhapra but living in nagpur

I agree with your assessment that Bhojpuri is miscatecorized here as Bihari. Ethnologue does not even have a separate entry for "Bihari" but instead states in its entry for Bhojpuri that the former is a pejorative cover term for the latter. Aslightrain (talk) 16:28, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Bhojpuri should be filed under Bihari languages. --83.84.137.22 (talk) 01:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC) Bhojpuri is not a Bihari language. Mywikieditbh (talk) 11:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Ethnologue says Bihari is simply a pejorative term for Bhojpuri Aslightrain (talk) 16:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Nepal is listed amoung the foreign countries where Bhojpuri is spoken, but the rest of these countries are overseas destinations where Bhojpuri speakers migrated. In contrast, Nepal's Bhojpuri speaking region is contiguous with India's, and is culturally an extension of India. It is part of Nepal only because Nepal annexed it during its expansion phase from 1744 to 1810 A.D., and because the British allowed Nepal to keep these territories as a quit-pro-quo for letting the British recruit mercenary soldiers (Gurkhas). Most likely Bhojpuri speakers were already there before the annexation. LADave 17:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

So it's been a part of Nepal only 200 years? A mere blink of an eye. </sarcasm> Sorry for your irredentist feelings, but it's (get ready now) a different country. --Thnidu (talk) 01:23, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

( Comment totally off topic and user banned (Sven70). Moved to Talk:Bhojpuri language/Archive 1#/* Etymology */=? --Thnidu (talk) 01:26, 27 August 2015 (UTC) )

[All promotional, and hasn't been touched in 3 years. No use keeping it here. Moved to Talk:Bhojpuri_language/Archive_1#Stuff moved to talkpage. --Thnidu (talk) 01:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)]

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According to the article, Bhojpuri is a dialect of Hindi, or one of the Hindi languages. This is wrong. Bhojpuri is a Bihari language, which developed from an Eastern Indo-Aryan Prakrit, not Hindi --Theudariks (talk) 00:57, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Well.. The primary script of Bhojpuri is Kaithi and that's why the image is Of the word "Bhojpuri" written in Kaithi script and please don't change it .

NIA3000 (talk) 15:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

It can be universal by awarerness — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:8100:3A35:ECA3:C84:4B35:4753:9624 (talk) 17:59, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

In Jharkhand "Sourthen Standard Bhojpuri" is spoken in Palamu District along with some tribal Languages. And in Chhota Nagpur region the classified "Sadri" dialect of Bhojpuri is spoken. The current map doesn't represent the whole Bhojpuri Region. I.e

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhojpuri_language#/media/File%3ABhojpuri_Speaking_Region_in_India.png

This maps also excludes the Bhojpuri Region of Nepal.

I suggest to add this image.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhojpuri_region#/media/File%3ABhojpuri_speaking_Region_of_India_and_Nepal.jpg

This map is actually taken from the Linguistic Survey of India that was done by George Abraham Grierson.

The link to the reference is given below.

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/lsi/lsi.php?volume=5-2&pages=466#page/1/mode/1up NIA3000 (talk) 13:47, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

In the article on the number of Indian Bhojpuri Speakers is given, however Bhojpuri is 3rd most spoken language of Nepal with 1.5 million speakers with a National status. I'm Mauritius it spoken by 5.3 percent of the population which is approximately equal to 66,000. Similarly several Bhojpuri Speakers are there in Suriname, Netherlands, Fiji and in Carribean countries. All should be added here. NIA3000 (talk) 10:53, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources for these? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:32, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes I have:

• Nepal:- 1,584,958^[1]

This source is also used on the page named Languages of Nepal, and is the date released by the Government of Nepal.

• Mauritius:- 5.3% of the population, which is roughly equal to 66,000.^[2][3]

This two references are also used on Mauritius and Langauages of Mauritius.

• Suriname:- 1,50,600^[4]
• Trinidad and Tobago:- 15633)^[4]

NIA3000 (talk) 19.38, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Since the sources are reliable, I think it should be added soon. Anjoriya (talk) 19:03, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Can you actually open ref [2]? Before giving links to a new discussion, you should make sure that they're not dead. The figures for Suriname and T&T are for Caribbean Hindustani which we list as a distinct language here, since it is not 100% Bhojpuri, but integrated elements from other IA languages such as Awadhi. –Austronesier (talk) 19:17, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

If 2nd link is not opening then third one is also used to cite the same thing, it is working. And if speakers from from Suriname and TnT can not be added because they have saperate pages them, please add the speakers of Nepal and Mauritius. NIA3000 (talk) 16:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Bhojpuri language § Politeness seems to give several contradictory values for the number of levels of politeness:

• Bhojpuri syntax and vocabulary reflect a three-tier system of politeness.
• The imperatives "come!" and "speak!" can thus be conjugated five ways, each marking subtle variation in politeness and propriety.
• The table has six rows:
  • Literary
  • Casual and intimate
  • Polite and intimate
  • Formal yet intimate
  • Polite and formal
  • Extremely formal

This needs to be resolved by someone knowledgeable about the language. -- Thnidu (talk) 01:19, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I came here to ask the same question. Five (almost six) years on, is there anyone who can clarify this section? Cailean99 (talk) 16:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)