Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Peruvian Jews

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE most of the keep is per IZAK but the fact that it is "part of a series" treasured by a special-interest wikiproject is neither here nor there. The whole thing is totally unsourced anyway. Delete case is far stronger. Case for deleting the sublists is overwhelming, and just maybe the main article could be recreated as a sourced article without redlinks at a later stage - I'm deleting without prejudice to that possibility. -Doc^g 00:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Peruvian Jews (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Huge unmaintainble article-less list, full of non-notables, just in existence to try to prove some type of point, who knows. Listcruft. Also for all its subdivisions:

• List of Other Jewish Peruvians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian archaeologists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian performance artists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian authors (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian poets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian playwrights (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• List of Jewish Peruvian entertainers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Usedup 03:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. IZAK 05:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - are these fundamentally different than everything in Category:Lists of Jewish Americans? --- RockMFR 04:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lists of Jewish Americans are populated by blue links; the ones of Jewish Peruvians, by redlinks. YechielMan 05:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • List of Peruvian Jews is clearly some attempt to make a point about Jews in Peru's society. Notice the amount of businessmen. Wikipedia's comment on overcategorization tells us that categories like LGBT literature are reasonable but LGBT nuclear physics is not. Therefore we can derive that LGBT writers is a category worth having but LGBT nuclear physicists isn't. This same idea can be applied to lists and "overlisting." While Jewish Americans is a valid division of people because America has the biggest Jewish population in the world, Jewish Peruvians is not because Jews probably have no more than 10,000 people of their ethnic group living there. If this were allowed to continue, we'd be inviting representatives of any Peruvian-BLANK ethnicity making lists for somewhat notable people form their community. This opens up the opportunity for List of Peruvian-Italians, Peruvian-Chinese, Peruvian-CanaryIslander and so on. This same idea could be applied to List of Mexican Jews another massive red-linked list with no ultimate purpose except to prove some type of point. A category for both Peruvian and Mexican Jews is perfectly sufficient for anyone who does happen to be both Mexican/Peruvian and Jewish. Filling up lists with as many Mexicans and Peruvians you can find who's names sound Jewish is not encyclopedic or helpful. It is the list version of "overcategorization." See Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Non-notable_intersections_by_ethnicity.2C_religion.2C_or_sexual_preference Usedup 08:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I tried last year to tidy up the unholy mess that had been created around here (there was once a "List of Jewish Peruvian Astronomer", which included a grand total of one name) and was hopeful that someone would be able to write useful articles on some of the names here. That obviously hasn't happened, so at absolute best a viable solution would be to replace the list with a category into which those with articles can go. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 04:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all. I looked at them all, and there is nothing worth saving. We could assemble the blue links into Category:Peruvian Jews if they aren't already there. YechielMan 05:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all unnecessary profusion of lists. Wile E. Heresiarch 06:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all... except perhaps List of Peruvian Jews (although I don't see what sort of purpose it serves since it has 90% redlinks and no references whatsoever).Pascal.Tesson 07:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The smaller lists are no different from the bigger one. It's just divisions. Usedup 08:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Abstain Koptor 12:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and tidy up. The point of redlinks in a list is to point to articles that potentially need creating. Jcuk 14:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jcuk, if you google those redlinks, you'll see about 75% don't even make it past 1 or 2 pages on google search. There's no way these people are EVER going to have articles made about them. This list is basically just a community list of non-notables, which shouldn't be surprising, there aren't very many Peruvian Jews period. You're saying to keep a list that will always be like it is now. Usedup 19:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1) I said redlinks point to articles that "potentially" need creating. If nobody bothers after they've been there for X amount of time, sure, get rid. 2) I don't accept I'm saying keep a list which will always be like it is, but, if I am, then I'm as entitled to that opinion, and to express it, as you are to the opposite opinion. Jcuk 22:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete all It is list cruft that has not much of a chance of being anything other than a list of redlinks. I have not seen so much red since a final I took in college. Fundamental Dan 20:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all - I would support keeping the List of Peruvian Jews if sources were provided that the people are indeed Jews in the occupations for which they are noted or if they were all bluelinks which could serve as "soft" references. But as neither condition holds, they should all be deleted. -- Black Falcon 21:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all as per List of Jewish Peruvian activists - List cruft, this is what categories are for, and I can't imagine an encyclopedic use for these lists. ^Khukri 21:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all "Jewish Peruvian archeologists"? "Jewish Peruvian archeologists"!! JEWISH PERUVIAN ARCHEOLOGISTS. Just to read the name is to see the best argument against it. Maybe Jewish Peruvian authors, but not in English Wikipedia. Spanish maybe. Being a Peruvian Jew may, in theory, lend something to a book or poem, but ... to archeology?Noroton 00:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep List of Peruvian Jews ONLY and clean it up by removing excess red-linked names because it's part of a series relating to Category:Lists of Jews. IZAK 05:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's already a page for Peruvian Jews on List of Latin American Jews. Do we really need a separate article for it? Usedup 08:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - I have copied the 8 blue-links present in all of these lists (combined) to List of Latin American Jews#Peru. Those articles which do not assert that the subject is of Jewish background have been tagged with {{fact}} and may be removed. -- Black Falcon 17:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Merge into List of Latin American Jews.--Runcorn 21:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep List of Peruvian Jews ONLY and clean it up per IZAK. It is much more difficult to verify Peruvian Jews than those from America or Britain due to language problems; please let's not delete any names until some Spanish-speaking editors have checked.--Brownlee 22:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep main article per IZAK; good comment from Brownlee about referencing problems.--Newport 11:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I randomly selected five red links from the list and googled them. *Abraham Levy: [1] *Dora Blitchstein Winicki: [2] *Eddie Fleichman [3] *Moises Barack [4] *Isaac Falkon [5] I'm not sure what more evidence someone needs to prove these are nns, and more importantly, completely unable to be fully referenced. The idea that we should wait for Spanish speakers to come and TRANSLATE articles into English is hard to fathom. If the only things written about any of these people are in Spanish than they belong on the wikipedia and not on the wikipedia. All names with articles have already been moved to List of Latin American Jews by User:Black Falcon Usedup 16:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep main list per IZAK. I note that the American and (to a lesser extent) British lists have sub-lists, but not those of most countries, so this is consistent.--Holdenhurst 22:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have a section for verified Peruvian Jews already. See List of Latin American Jews. Typically, a country with a small Jewish population is added to a bigger regional list. See List of North European Jews and List of South East European Jews. Why then should we keep two versions of a list of Peruvian Jews? It doesn't make sense and is itself pretty inconsistent. Usedup 00:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Obviously, the List of Latin American Jews will just link to the Peruvian list, just as many other similar lists just link to sublists. All that's needed is tidying up.--Holdenhurst 13:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• keep per all articles under Lists of Jews#By country and List of North American Muslims etc.--Sefringle 00:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• keep per for 2 reasons (1) if Wikipedia sees fit to classify people by race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, etc., then this article should be kept as part of the series of Lists of Jews by country, etc., and (2) the nom. hasn't proved the unencyclopedic nature of the article: redlinks in and of themselves doesn't mean something ought to be tossed -- nearly all articles start that way, it's an invitation to create articles -- and as for the nomination itself: hypothesizing some impure motive (as in "just in existence to try to prove some type of point, who knows") and invoking the magic word "Listcruft" is a poor explanation of why otherwise encyclopedic content should be deleted. Carlossuarez46 01:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is so frustrating. The information on this list isn't encyclopedic in the least bit. Please see my bolded comments for evidence. Usedup 02:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

keep --Java7837 04:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per IZAK.--Osidge 17:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - per IZAK.Bakaman 19:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per IZAK.--Runcorn 22:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Jcuk's excellent arguments.--R613vlu 22:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.