User talk:PUC/2021

I think this is best lemmatised at van de oude stempel, other uses of "oude stempel" mostly appear like they are used literally to me.

Also, do you think you could add one or two cites to beu? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 09:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Lingo Bingo Dingo: Not my favorite type of work here, but  Done. And per your suggestion, I've moved oude stempel to van de oude stempel. PUC – 20:43, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Just curious why you tagged me. Did you just want me to check the English gloss? If so, it looks good to me. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 23:37, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Andrew Sheedy: Yes, I wanted to get a native eye on my entry. Whenever I can't rely on more-or-less canonical translations and have to gloss things myself, I feel there's always a risk I'll leave mistakes behind. I was also curious if maybe there's a similar idiomatic expression in English (I haven't found any, which is why I had to gloss).

Also you're my go-to person for all things related to religion and Christianity :p PUC – 23:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

OK, that's what I figured! BTW, I just checked the Wiktionnaire entry and I notice it's different. It seems to describe fasting rather than abstinence. As a native French speaker, you're better qualified than I am to judge which is more accurate, but do note that they aren't the same thing. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 02:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Andrew Sheedy: I think they're wrong. (The quote they give for sense 1 is ambiguous anyway.) Le Petit Robert glosses this as "ne manger ni viande ni aliment gras"; and the TLFI, at maigre, says this: "RELIG. CATH. Pratique religieuse consistant à s'abstenir de viande et d'aliments gras, les jours où l'Église en interdit la consommation." PUC – 11:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

OK. I do think the citations in the Wiktionnaire entry indicate another sense of the word that has to do with quantity of food, however. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 21:16, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Abstract nouns on -heid can get plurals on -heden with the meaning "act of X, something that is characterised by X". Nl.wikt tends to include more marginal and theoretical inflections than we do and I strongly prefer not to include those if they are insufficiently attested. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Should there also be a French section for a sense "coronavirus, coronavirus disease"? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 14:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Lingo Bingo Dingo: I'm not sure it's CFI-compliant, but it's used all the time, so I've added it. PUC – 15:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

I have added three independent cites, so it can stay as a hot word. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:28, 13 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi. How come you don't like the idiom tag? It's a perfectly standard thing to add Alexfromiowa (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

It looks silly, in my view; if it wasn't idiomatic we wouldn't have it. There has been several discussions about this issue, but I don't have the time right now to point you to them. I acknowledge there's no consensus about this, but please don't add it on entries I've created. PUC – 18:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Well, I won't necessarily avoid tagging any entries thusly just because you made them, but won't avoid not tagging them either - remember, nobody "owns" any of the pages here, except possibly the evil henchmen working in the Wikimedia lab in some lair off the coast of Malaysia... Alexfromiowa (talk) 20:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

I don't think discute is used outside this expression, but thought I'd best ask you anyway. Alexfromiowa (talk) 10:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Alexfromiowa: That's correct, you can use {{only used in}}. PUC – 10:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

position sexuelle would be sex position, right? Forever in your debt (talk) 22:49, 28 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

It obvisouly is. I don't even know why I asked Forever in your debt (talk) 23:09, 28 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

I just stumbled across your contributions and they're an absolute goldmine. Your French definitions are amazing. Thank you so much!! Languageseeker (talk) 16:11, 30 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I was very surprised we were missing an adjectival sense for the French prime. I'm not feeling up to it right now, and will forget tomorrow, so do you fancy adding it? Forever in your debt (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Also, if you can link to the multiword terms you're creating from the terms' components, it would be awesome Forever in your debt (talk) 23:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

I know you've been nominated for admin a couple times. But do you have any interest in being nominated again? Imetsia (talk) 16:13, 6 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Imetsia: Thanks for the thought. Yes, I'm still interested in becoming an admin, as I do a bit of vandalism reversion, and sometimes encounter obvious misspellings or other pages I'd like to be able to delete myself.

That being said, I'm hesitant, as I'm not sure I'll get more support than last time.

Just to make sure, you're aware of the various issues that have been brought up during the first vote, right? And you should also know that I did create one last sock a few months ago... All of that ought to be mentioned, even though I feel it's less relevant now; I mean, I still have a conflictual relationship to Wiktionary, and I still think I spend too much time on it, but when I feel frustrated about it, I simply edit under IP for a bit. The need to switch usernames or create socks or do weird shit - for lack of a better word -, I got these out of my system.

(If you get cold feet reading this, no worries; don't feel obligated to nominate me. It can wait. If you do nominate me, please mention this on the vote page.) PUC – 13:48, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Okay, I've made the vote. Please accept! Imetsia (talk) 15:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Do you think easier said than done would be an English equivalent? MM0898 (talk) 16:16, 6 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

At Citations:bien you will find a phrase bien loin which I would translate as very far. This use is not among the existing senses of adverbial bien. The intensifier sense, translated really, has the colloquial label and is only supposed to be used with negative adjectives. TLFi also has an example of bien loin, and quotes an authority «Avec les adjectifs et les adverbes au positif, c'est bien, et non beaucoup, qu'il faut employer : il est bien savant, il est bien loin». This contradicts our usage note. Perhaps use has changed in recent decades. How should we resolve this conflict? Vox Sciurorum (talk) 20:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Another example of bien loin meaning very far at hétaïre. Languageseeker (talk) 21:10, 13 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vox Sciurorum, Languageseeker: I added the usage note in 2014 (diff), but was obviously short-sighted: I don't think it's colloquial per se, and its use is not limited to negative adjectives, as you can say c'est bien aimable à vous (“it's very considerate of you”); c'est bien beau, mais... (“it's all very well, but”); je te trouve bien silencieux aujourd'hui (“you seem very quiet today”).

However its use does seem restricted to me, and I certainly wouldn't use it interchangeably with très.

I don't know what to think about the TLFi note, as I'm not sure what they're getting at (nor of what they mean by au positif: "positive" as opposed to "comparative" or "superlative"?). From a native-speaker perspective I want to say: "of course you can't say **il est beaucoup savant, it's ungrammatical!". But now that I think of it, I've heard that foreigners sometimes have trouble with that point: bien meilleur (“much better”), not **beaucoup meilleur (but bien mieux and beaucoup mieux are equally acceptable, go figure). However, while il est bien savant is grammatical, it's not something I would say naturally either (don't know why). And I'm not sure what il est bien loin means.

So yes, it seems there's quite a lot to unravel here. PUC – 10:08, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Bonjour,

Quand on parle de langue bulgare, on utilise le terme Vieux-Bulgare. Par conséquent, ne révise pas le que j'ai déjà révisé. Merci!!

Pisateljrecnika (talk) 11:24, 19 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

I was curious if there was a particular reason for the bawdy, sexist or otherwise edgy names for your alts. I know that the naming of the majority of them is years in the past, but User:In her mouth was only created in August last year and is of the second type. Now it is not offensive to me, but it just bemuses me because you obviously aren't in your mid teens anymore. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 18:20, 23 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

I think you may be right, I've found the following entry on the Internet: rycząg 1. It comes from a very old Polish-German dictionary (early 19th c.) and as far as I can understand it in German, it's a very technical term that I don't think I'd be able to translate into English (the definition is: 'ruchoma część w przodzie wozu, w której osadzone są kłonice', so some element of a hay wagon). According to this source: rycząg 2, it is indeed a real word but only to be found in some regional dialects, possibly extinct by now given that virtually everyone in Poland speaks only the standard dialect nowadays due to dialect levelling. Apparently, its synonyms are (or were): "ryczan", "reczun" (which sound like dialectal varieties), and "obartel", which is actually attestable in PWN: obartel. But the definitions are so technical and most likely outdated that I don't know if I'm competent enough to add it here. As for the Russian word, I couldn't find any source that would back up the claim that it comes from Polish "rycząg", which in turn comes from Middle High German. Except for Vasmer, that is, but I don't have a direct access to that dictionary to check it and I don't know how reliable the dude is nowadays (I mean, I know he's a legend in German and Russian studies but I don't know if his Polish was good enough to be reliable for etymological studies). Shumkichi (talk) 00:51, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Should there be another sense like "matured, ripened", as in fromages affinés? Equinox ◑ 23:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Equinox: No, it's simply the past participle of affiner. I've removed the adjective section altogether, it's redundant. PUC – 16:10, 16 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hey, it would be awesome if you could link more, like to tenir la barre from tenir and barre. Indian subcontinent (talk) 19:39, 9 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Indian subcontinent: You're doing a good job, I don't want to marcher sur tes plates-bandes. PUC – 19:46, 9 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I had a feeling you were gonna say something like that. But I'd be delighted to share my turf with you Indian subcontinent (talk) 20:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Indian subcontinent: Can't it be automatized, though? I'd rather not spend my time on that. PUC – 20:41, 9 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

It should be able to be automatized, because I'm sure other dictionaries/databases can automatically include derived terms. But since Wiktionary:Todo/phrases not linked to from components was created in 2009, this hasn't been done on WT. Indian subcontinent (talk) 08:21, 10 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, the linky project is quite rewarding actually. I get to learn loads of phrases doing it, sweeping up some crap along the way. Queenofnortheast (talk) 00:34, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hey PUC, could you consider making an entry for ce n'est pas de refus? Indian subcontinent (talk) 07:03, 14 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Indian subcontinent: Done, at ne pas être de refus. PUC – 11:25, 16 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Why did you reject my additions to the etymology of siderurgy and siderurgie? JohnOFL (talk) 10:15, 14 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@JohnOFL: Because they're 1) useless 2) badly formatted. PUC – 11:25, 16 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Lahore in punjabi is written like "لہور" and not "لاہور" IMPNFHU (talk) 17:37, 17 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

So please don't undo my edit IMPNFHU (talk) 17:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Etymology of lahore is just a theory and there's not enough evidence that prove it to be true IMPNFHU (talk) 19:04, 17 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

There's no derivative because "szyb" is a German borrowing, namely from "Scheibe": https://www.wsjp.pl/do_druku.php?id_hasla=38725&id_znaczenia=0

Idk who tf put it there. But thanks for the notification, I'll add the Etymology now. Shumkichi (talk) 14:07, 18 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello. Here are some things:

• Should there be entries for en vrai and à vrai dire (perhaps something like "to be honest", "to tell you the truth", "really")?
• Would a Frenchman, from France, ever produce a sentence like "bah en fait sa depend de quoi sa fait reference a"? (Ignore the bad spelling.) Or: "le garçon que j'ai habité avec". I know it might be okay in Canadian French. But not in France, right?

Equinox ◑ 02:26, 21 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Equinox: I've created an entry for en vrai; we already had one for à vrai dire.

Regarding your second question, 1) I'm not from France and have never been in France for very long; I can only answer you from a Belgian perspective; 2) to answer your question anyway: I like to produce such sentences, but precisely because they're ungrammatical. I do it only to amuse myself. I don't think anybody - and very much hope nobody - would say this non-humorously. PUC – 10:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

• ho mon Dieu, oh mon Dieu and ô mon Dieu should probably be merged into one, with alt-forms. Or be deleted? Queenofnortheast (talk) 12:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Queen whoever nominated this for deletion at Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Non-English#parents et amis; do you think it's worth keeping? Unrelated, I'm super in love with your tilted contents box. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 16:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, loving the tiltage too. I'm gonna make my talk page upside-down, out of respect. BTW, in the phrase feuille de pompe, which pompe is it supposed to be? pump-sheet, push-up-sheet, pomp-sheet, style-sheet and shoe-sheet would all be weird definitions for a cheat sheet Queenofnortheast (talk) 00:24, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Qehath: TBH, no, I don't think we should keep it, as it sounds SOP to me: compare "mes parents et grands-parents", "mes collègues et amis", "mes amis et ennemis", "mes amis et parents", etc.

Regarding your edit at étonner, I think your version sounds slightly better, but the indicative mood is not impossible here, and in fact it seems to me there might sometimes be a difference in meaning. I'm trying to come up with an example but I'm uninspired right now. (embryo of an answer: "ce qui m'étonne, c'est qu'il t'a déjà proposé de [...]" vs. " ce qui m'étonne, c'est qu'il t'ait déjà proposé de [...]")

(As for the content box, thanks, but it's not my idea originally: I copied it from User:KevinUp's talkpage.) PUC – 11:46, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

That's interesting; I don't think I can remember seeing anything like that where the possessive adjective isn't repeated, so I have a feeling that maybe that's only possible with people of some kind of relation. Like, I'm guessing one would always say "mes parents et mes chiens" rather than 'mes parents et chiens'? — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 16:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Mh, I indeed wouldn't say "mes parents et chiens", but probably because it's a bit strange to put "chien" and "parent" on an equal footing; something like "mes chiens et chats" or even "mes dictionnaires et grammaires" is not entirely inconceivable, and I indeed find google hits for both. PUC – 18:09, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

I made this page so I can put potential example sentences here so you can just watch one page for that kind of thing. That way I don't have to bug you on your talk page every time I have a question. Thanks for helping — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 17:42, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Qehath: Sounds good, I was thinking about something like that too. PUC – 18:09, 26 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

I do indeed think this rollback is a mistake. There is no reason not to have curly quotes on pages. Unfortunately, they are not allowed in page titles, but that shouldn’t stop us from using them in links, a redirect is easily made. So please convince me otherwise, or re-revert. Cheers, H. (talk) 09:40, 24 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Hamaryns: I like curly quotes, but please make sure that you don't break anything in the process: diff PUC – 10:32, 24 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

OOPS! OK, sorry, thanks for fixing.H. (talk) 10:00, 31 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello, my contributions got rollbacked, could you explain the reason in detail?

In one of her songs, Zaz sings "Est-ce que tu crois qu'on s'en remet? On vit avec, on fait semblant." Is vivre avec an idiom or set phrase or something?, maybe meaning "make do (with what we have)" or something like that? It doesn't look like a sum of parts because avec is just hanging out by itself with no pronoun to hold it close at night. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 22:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Qehath: Hey man! I very belatedly поздравляю Вас su naujais metais. I just came back from a month in Vilnius, where I've taken a course in elementary Lithuanian. Any recs to take it further from here? I've bought a whole slew of manuals, but I've always been bad at learning on my own without a teacher: I'm too lazy to be a good самоучка, really.

As for your question: more or less. There's no grammatical referent, but when we use vivre avec (compare faire avec) we're still referring to something that's been mentioned before: "to live with [it]", "to go on while carrying [it] as a burden" ("it" being a bad experience, something negative that happened to you, etc.) PUC – 14:28, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm so jealous you got to go to Lithuania. Theirs is one of my absolute favorite languages... It's so deep. I'm not sure that I have any good recommendations, except one site that's like a forum where people learn Lithuania together. Debesys? I can't remember the name but I think it's something related to clouds. I always recommend listening to music to pick up grammar and vocabulary, not to mention pronunciation. My favorite Lithuanian singer is Jurga Šeduikytė. I'm not sure what your tastes are, so Jurga might be a bit too gay for ya :D

Thanks for clearing up my question. It gets frustrating understanding 60% of what I read, you know? But I do get cocky when speech recognition understands my French. Do the French generally understand how hard French pronunciation is for foreigners? I think most thinking English speakers know our language is ridiculous. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 01:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thought this one might interest you! I would have thought "mort de Chine" a more likely corruption, but there you go. Equinox ◑ 02:46, 2 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Is this a French idiom of some kind? I saw it as a comment on a bad piece of music, and didn't understand. From the context it might possibly have been something like "you're taking the piss" (= making fun of us, or being unreasonable). Equinox ◑ 10:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)Reply