before we go, we hope you'll set your dvr and record "hannity" the series. start your day with fox and friends each weekday morning. thanks for joining us, we'll see you back here tomorrow nfun. questions. who knows what will happen? right now here "on the record" fired new york times executive editor jill abramson to tell us all about her controversial firing. hear what she has to say. first while working at the new york times and after decades of covering presidential administrations abramson calls president obama's white house the most is he retif she's covered. she's not the only one. >> this is not the most transparent administration in history. >> i will make our government open and transparent. >> one thing i want to do is open things up. i want transparency, accountability. >> the white house said we'll do things differently, change washington. they didn't change washington. >> the more transparency we can

bring, the less likely it is washington will be run by lobbyists and special interest ares. >> transparency and the rule of law will be the touch stones president. >> he's broken a promise. >> this is the most transparent administration in history. >> joining us, jill abramson. >> great to be here, greta. >> fired because that's the term you want. i read that you like "fired." >> that's what happened to me. i have devoted my career to truth-telling. so why hide that. . >> fired it is then. i want to talk about the whole issue of president obama and transparen transparency.

i have been covering politics back to the carter administration. so a long time. >> you said this administration is the most is he retif. >> i love the name of your show "on the record." i have never dealt with an administration where more officials -- some of whom are actually paid to be the spokesman for various federal agencies demand that be off the record. that's secretive and not transparent. the most serious thing is the obama administration has launched eight criminal leak investigations against sources and whistleblowers they have tried to sweep in journalists.

it's almost a year since james rosen had his record secretly looked at by the government and the leak investigation. they have interrupted the normal flow of journalists who want to cover washington and national security especially. >> is it profoundly different from the other administrations? >> it is profoundly different. before these cases, these eight cases and all of history there have been fewer than half of those. so it is different. >> we listen to josh ernest, current white house press secretary. the other day he said this is the most transparent. the president also said that. he said he absolutely sticks by president obama's line about having the most transparent

administration. are they also delusional? >> no. you know, in certain ways they have declassified documents. they have done something that weigh on the side of transparency. i think that these criminal cases. these criminal leak investigations outweigh all of the good that they have done and all of the efforts they have made to try to be transparent. you said in the lead into the show, i'm not alone in pointing out how closed and difficult this administration is for reporters. everyone from bob schafer to lynn downy from the washington post have commented at the white house. >>. >> you have journalist organizations protesting in a letter. you have the white house

photographer objecting because they don't have access. they are taking pictures and handing it to them. >> part of it is this arc of politics. politicians all want to control their image and control the message down to the photographs. the president's day is a public thing. to only have the white house itself documenting what he does is not the way the country deserves to have are the p president covered. >> i suppose it becomes, quote, dangerous. it's one thing to control the message but it becomes dangerous when you have a situation where are it chills journalism. have you seen a man mess taifesf that? >> all i can tell you is until i was fired i spoke every day almost to our national security team in washington.

almost all of the reporters said to me there's never been a more difficult atmosphere in which to do the work they do than now. >> james rizen is an author and worked at the new york times when you were an editor. >> he's won two pulitzer prizes. he's a colleague i loved working with. he's been subpoenaed in one of the leak cases. he's said himself that faced with having to testify and name a source who he promised to keep confidential and to protect that he would go to jail rather than name the source. to criminalize just the work of journalists, i think, is not living up to what the founders, thomas jefferson -- not to get heavy on you, but the founders wanted a free press.

they thought the york that you and i and our colleagues do whether it's for fox or the "new york times" -- which couldn't be more different -- that the work serves a purpose in holding the government accountable to the people. that's what we do. >> where does it stand now with james rizen is a criminal trial of a former cia agent. they want him to testify. he's refused. he's gone through the court system. >> went to the supreme court. >> now he either testifies or goes to jail unless president obama or eric holder intervene. eric holder said he doesn't want journalists to go to jail for. >> doing their job. >> and the president thinks whistleblowers are courageous and heroic, but if he rules against -- they side on the side of the new york times and not the cia, the intelligence community will be furious. where are we on this? >> in a tough place. we don't know whether jim is actually going to be called to

testify, put on the witness list of that trial. the trial hasn't started yet. but he's in a perilous situation that i don't think reporters doing their jobs should be in. >> when you were executive editor and i know you have been, quote, fired. you got calls from dni clapper. i may be misquoting but that you have blood on your hands -- >> i would have blood on them. >> what was that in connection with? >> that was in connection with a story that we were doing about an intercepted communication between two al qaeda leaders. that had triggered a lot of worry are and, in fact, the evacuation of several embassies abroad. >> how do you remembdetermine w or not to publish in that circumstance? clapper testified, i believe,

falsely. >> about whether eaves dropping and monitoring was as widespread as the it is. >> right. that was march of 2013. you get a call and he tells you this. how do you make a decision? how do you decide? >> well, even though i agree that the testimony is certainly troubling, i never felt either with this administration or with the bush administration before it when a top official would call me and express concern that a story would jeopardize national security. i never felt that was a dishonest request or a disingenuous request. it always caused me to pause, hear the argument, you know, think it through. then you have to balance the news worthiness of the story and the benefit of the story versus potential harm. those are the toughest calls i

can think of for an editor to make. >> now i want to ask about your firing. you went from reporting the news to being the news. >> what does it mean to you to become the executive editor of the "new york times"? >> it means the world to me. >> the "new york times" fired its top editor, jill abramson. >> controversy around the firing of jill abramson. it is heating up this morning. >> the firing of "new york times" first female executive editor jill abram areson started a debate about women in power. >> you should be more sad about arthur salzburger. why does he run the "new york times" nanaimo. >> i don't know how he operates in the work place. if she's tough, so what? >> so you got fired. >> i did. that's true. >> did you are see it coming? >> no, but i would say i had my

bumps. you know, some difficult situations with some of the people who i work for which is normal. >> tough? tough to get fired? >> yeah. i mean, of course. it's like a hurtful situation. my firing was so public, as you just pointed out. it's mighty strange going one day from being an editor of stories to being the story. but, you know, i think actually it's healthy for journalists to know what it feels like on the opposite end of the probing and questioning. you know, the bottom line of the situation is that when i was executive editor, i loved the new york times and so believe that it's the best publication there is. after i was fired, i believe

exactly the same thing. i spend more time reading it now than i could when i worked there. >> why did you get fired? >> it was said because of my management style. a hard charging editor and i'm sure people worked for me who didn't like that style. for a lot of people they like that. they like the fact that i was a stand-up editor. >> if a guy had been the same way do you think a guy would have gotten the boot? >> i have no idea. >> what do you think? >> plenty of guys get fired. plenty of editors and news executives that were distinguished have lost their jobs. in this environment, a lot of people get fired. >> do you know --

>> what i do think broadly is that definitely, you know, women in leadership roles are skro scrutinized constantly and sometimes differently than men. qualities seen as showing leadership or being assertive in men are seen, you know, there are certain code words. strident. too tough. whatever. you know, that's just the world we live in lt you know that, greta. >> what was troubling to me was there were descriptions and i don't know if they were fair or not. they weren't named. it was like "people say." that's an expansion to the broader question of journalism. used to be if someone had something to say you identified the person. all these people say or senior officials in the administration, whatever.

we don't identify them. one of the things, and this began when bill keller was executive editor and i was managing editor, we tried to cut down on the number of anonymous sources. bill had a great word for the sources. he called them anonymice. >> it's troubling. >> you don't know how to assign credibility to a source that's a senior official or someone in the newsroom or whatever. it's impossible to evaluate the credibility of the information when the source is anonymous. but sometimes you can't get anyone to talk to you. especially in the interview and the administration in washington.

it's hard to get people to tell you they will put their name behind what they said. >> new york times is a left leaning newspaper. fair or dead wrong or what? >> i think that isn't the right way to look at the times. the times is a cosmopolitan newspaper publish ed. but there are many stories where the characterization is just dead wrong. i was the washington bureau chief. that job is right on the front lines of politics. and i note that the times plays it straight. i know many of your viewers probably will send you many

messages saying, well, that's just baloney. i have known you a long time. i'm telling you it's true. >> okay. there is one other thing. the tattoo. you have a "new york times" tattoo? >> i have the times t. >> where is it? >> on my back. i also have the harvard h. i will be teaching there in the fall. that was where where i went to college. >> and you have a boxing picture. >> i do. >> what's the story on that? there it is. >> i didn't have the benefit of hair and makeup in that picture. but that picture was taken by my trainer. >> ex-trainer or current? >> my current trainer. i only regret that the "new york post" ended up putting that on the cover but didn't give him a photo credit. >> maybe i can help out next

time. you're off to harvard. i will call you fired and not former. nice to see you. good luck at harvard. >> thank you, greta. >> i hope you come back. >> thank you. >> a fox news alert, house republicans taking the next step toward suing president obama. today the house rules committee discussing john boehnerer's planned lawsuit which accuses the president of executive overreach. mike emmanuel live on capitol hill with the latest. >> hi, greta. in the house of representatives expected by the end of the month. house lawmakers are focused on the president's unilateral actions on the health care law sprefl postponing the employer mandate rather than go with a laundry list of complaints about executive over reach. they hope that will help their chances of winning in court. we heard from legal experts

today. some saying the house must go regain some of the power it's lost to recent presidents from presidents taking executive actions over the years. one critic said they should not go forward with the lawsuit because this could lead to every squabble in washington ending up in court. bottom line, we expect it to go forward at the end of the month. we'll see what the courts have to say. >> mike, thank you. joining us, our political panel. maria bartiroma, rich laurie and the wall street journal editorial board's mary kiso. you are don't normally do my legal an lis, but this has an impact. >> it's an impact on certainty or lab of certainty, uncertainty in the economy. it will have an impact on the economy. it is already on the idea that we don't know what's next in the next six months to a year. that's why you have corporations

sitting on two trillion in cash. it has an impact. the idea are that it's going to stick is another conversation. i think a lot of people believe that there is merit to this. that this president has been the least respect for the law in recent years. >> if you listen to joe abram son he's not that big on transparency. >> having said that, boehner doesn't want to go for impeachment. he's stopping short of that. it's opening up this whole question of are we wasting taxpayer dollars and everyone's time? >>if this goes through the courts rapidly and is completely successful, you will get an ultimate decision around the time the employer mandate will go into effect anyway. he's trying to protect the institutional integrity of the house. >> is it folly? >> well, i'm lukewarm on the suit.

i'm not sure if you will get standing into the technicalities of that. it's inviting the joish to get in the middle of what's essentially a political dispute between the executive branch and the legislative branch. the founders, the real vision was the branches would duke the it out using the powers they have under the constitution. this is something different. >> the house is saying the president is infringing on separation of powers. this is something fundamental to our democracy, our editorial page editorialized on it several times. companies are not holding $2 trillion in cash overseas because of this. they get taxed when they bring it home. this suit is worthwhile. this president suspended ignored or made up his own laws. courts are are pushing it back. we have had hobby lobby, the supreme court nonrecess, recess appointments, pushing that back. >> i agree with you.

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shocking tweets that violate. she's resigned. tonight a former obama cabinet member under fire for allegedly violating it as well. the house oversight committee releasing this voicemail. >> hi. this is hilda soslis calling you off the record. wanted to ask you if you could help us get folks organized to come to a fundraiser that we are with doing for organizing for america for obama campaign on friday at k p.m. >> jason chaffetz joins us. >> hi, greta. >> how do you know the voicemail was done while she was on government properties, a government phone or working for the government? >> what happened is the senior person within the department filed a complaint, a whistleblower complaint there to the office of special counsel. they looked and a criminal

referral to the. you are not supposed to use these assets for sunday raising. here we have the secretary herself doing this. the allegation is they were using government assets on government time and the whistleblower thought this was wrong. >> last night we read the tweets of an fec lawyer that were mind boggling she was working there. i realize this is the cabinet secretary. you say they have been investigating. how long have they been investigating? this is not wire and mail fraud involving all across the world. how long does it take to investigate this? >> the person that heads up the office would be part of the panel that came before the oversight committee. one of the key people we had coming who was going to come testify before the committee despite a subpoena for the united states congress decided not to show up and chairman issa

did the right thing and adjourned. we'd like to ask more questions and her name is ms. lerner. not lois lerner. she's very are competent. we like her and does a good job. we didn't have a good chance to dive into it. >> the white house says you have no authority to subpoena her. are right? >> what we said -- look, we issued a subpoena . we had been trying to get the information. remember, this ises new. they had this under other administrations and abandoned it. now the obama white house has started the white house office. political strategy and outreach. four government employees with federal taxpayer dollars started. we want to bring the director. now the white house is claiming something new we haven't seen before. they said they have immunity. they don't have to testify. they are not claiming executive privilege about content. they are saying they don't have to testify because they are an

adviser to the president. >> what's next? >> take it under advisement. you have legal eagles out there but trey goudy and others make a compelling case that says where are the bounds of newfound immunity. just because you advise the president doesn't mean you can bypass the constitution and ignore a subpoena. at the same time the white house is claiming to be the most open and transparent investigation in the history of the world. they can't allow a person to come uh. we haven't accused them of wrongdoing. >> i don't know if you heard joe a bramson on the issue are of transparency. thank you, sir. >> thanks, greta. developing new illegal immigrants buying plane tickets immigrants buying plane tickets and boarding planes with no [ female announcer ] we help make secure financial tomorrows a reality

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it's a fox news alert. some illegal immigrants at the texas border being allowed to board commercial flights with no idea. k fox reporter bill mulligan is live in el paso texas. bill? >> brand new information just like you said. we are getting reports of illegal immigrants showing up to el paso airport boarding airplanes without having to show i.d. this information is coming straight from the border patrol union. their agents are reporting seeing illegal immigrants po are vieding agents with only the i-862 or notice to appear in court documents as i.d. they are saying the problem is these documents don't have any type of photo on them or biometric information to prove they are who they say they are.

there is another security aspect. these documents don't have official water marks on them. they will start working into airports and flying across the country without showing i.d. like the rest of the legal citizens have to. the mood in el paso is split. you have one side of the aisle saying it's a humanitarian aspect. we should take care of people. the other side saying the united states has plenty of problems. we can't take care of set rans. we have to deport people immediately. greta? >> the issue when they get on the plane is who will pay for them to come back from the notice to appear? i don't think people think they are coming back on the notice to appear. if they were not commercial flights but government program or government facility we'd have some sort of control. >> it was just confirmed it is happening in el paso. we moe from other news courts

around texas that it's been taking place in laredo as well. this is confirmed to us by. >> now listen to what senate majority leader harry reid just said about the border. >> the border is secure. martin hienrich talked to the caucus today. he's a border state senator. the border the secure. >> he said it three times. the border is secure. really? sheriff paul babue joins us from arizona. sheriff, is the border secure? >> absolutely not. he and all of his friends are divorced from reality. this is at a time when we have 60,000 unaccompanied juveniles

which will be 80,000 come october first. how do they come across the border? just where i'm at in the tucson sector of arizona, 123,000 illegals apprehended here. i was on your show three weeks ago when we arrested eight cartel scouts on mountains, guiding drug smuggling into arizona. we have the largest drug bust in the history of the state. 76 cartel members carrying. the border is not more secure. >> i don't get senator reid. homeland security sec doesn't say it's secure. he makes this stuff up. last week he made a comment about the supreme court. maybe a slip. i don't know. whether governorle romney pays taxes or not.

where is he getting this stuff? it's amazing. >> for this issue, certainly this is a part of the plan. to convince the american people, in order to get to this immigration reform where they will have 11 to 20 million illegals with some legal standing or amnesty, they have to convince the american people that everything is fine. the border is, in fact, secure. well, of course it's not. >> has he been down there? would you be willing to give him a walk along the border? maybe that will help him. >> i invite senator reid, president obama to stop playing billiards or going on vacations. come here and see for yourself. don't be flying in unaccompanied juveniles to the arizona and have them housed at boys ranches here. we have enough problems to contend with already will. we'll be happy to give them a tour. >> maybe they will take you up on it. >> i hope so. >> the panel is next.

plus, gangs threatening to kill police and emts. one police officer

the crisis reaching from our border across the country and our political panel is back. can you put in terms how big the crisis is or is not? >> it's an enormous crisis. you are hearing it from all corners of the country and the world. just are recently we are hearing are from governor after governor. we cannot accept more people in our state. at the end of the day this is about leadership and lack of leadership. the president is doing much more politicking than he's leading on this. people are recognizing this. i think it's clear this is an enormous problem. >> it goes back to what we were talking about which is the lawlessness of the administration. you have a problem with border security. another problem is they basically gutted interior enforcement. once any illegal immigrant makes it into the country, they are

likely completely scot-free. you are hearing it from congress. no way you can give the president more money or authority when he's promising immigration groups he'll in effect suspend more immigration laws in the fall. >> what happened? >> it's important that everybody understands immigrants are are a benefit not a burden to the country are. we have had waves of immigration when our economy does better than other economies. this is a problem we have had for hundreds of year ares. we have to create legal avenues for people to come in or apply for permanent status. the shame of the white house is we could have had immigration reform, fixed the problem for the future if the president expended political capital and the house had played along. >> it's a leadership issue. we feel rudierless. >> instead of encouraging immigrants to come to this country if they did ab and c and allowing thousands of people to

think they could have a path to get here when there was none at all. >> we let in, what, 700,000 people legally a year already are. comprehensive immigration reform basically would have amnesty in effect before a workable enforcement. that would have acted like an enormous magnet, a bigger magnet than we have with the situation now. >> there is no limit on the number of people america can abso absorb. the gang of 8 reform wasn't amnesty. that's the wrong word to describe it. there is a fine, a wait time. amnesty means no penalty. >> would you send them back? >> absolutely. we need to be compassionate and we need immigration reform. >> we need a legal path. it's clear. there is no solution from the white house in terms of how. >> we go back to no leadership. >> it's politics. >> i would like to see speaker boehner, senator harry reid, the

secure border and the president sit down and provide leadership. >> the first step has to be enforcement that works. not just at the border but at a placement so you dry up jobs for illegal immigrants and do amnesty in exchange for lower levels of legal immigration. if you do the amnesty first, we saw it in 1986. >> they will come from air and the ocean. >> it's the divisiveness that comes from the white house. >> panel, thank you. a police officer gunned down. down. now violent fwan ♪ you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance?

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city police. what sparked the threat? wny fox news lisa everett joins us with the greta, what happene was late saturday night going into sunday morning, one of the late night drug stores we see everywhere, a man, police say, went to the armed security guard, got his gun and then told somebody on the way out, watch tv, i'm going to be famous. and then waited for the 911 call to go in. took the guard's gun, and when police arrived he went out and opened fire on police officer marvin santiago, killing him. and then he went to go kill more police officers, they say, because he went to shoot at other officers responding in their car, and then they shot and killed him. >> and what is the reaction from the family? >> the family is very tense, the reaction is very tense -- the

alleged -- >> i don't think it is alleged anymore, he is dead guilty. they put up a memorial, lawrence campbell's wife made a statement that got people very, very upset. can we take a listen? >> he should have taken more with him, that is how i feel, god forgive me, if they were going to stand over my husband and shoot him like a dog he should have taken all of them out and that is how i feel. >> wow. >> now, that is have pretty powerful stuff, whether she said it in anger, or whether that indicates the hostility. there have been hostility surrounding the people, whether they're involved in drugs or with the police cracking down on crime. >> i have been curious, there is a call for gang members across the country and come to jersey city and kill cops, is that true or not? >> well, greta, i looked into that today and found something we obtained from sources today

from fox 5. the memo sent out to jersey city police, from all over the state say there is credible evidence of a specific threat, which you know they really use the language, specific, saying the united organization, the blood gang, calling on members to come to jersey city and target police officers, any others from any law enforcement where they would have a vantage point on the construction site on the highway. >> just terrible, a police officer murdered. now we have the gang stuff where they're trying to kill more or at least threaten them. and big news in the irs, s

this is a fox news alert. for the first time, the fbi and the department of justice will meet with lawyers from "true the vote," a group tabernaed by the irs. good evening. >> good evening. >> well, that is a switch, the fbi now is going to talk to you? >> yes. we have accepted the invitation to -- to sit down and talk with them, they have met some of our conditions, and we are thrilled to -- looking forward to going forward. what are your conditions. well, we want to make sure when we sit down and talk, we talk to all the other agencies, and that we are not the only ones they talk to. you know, there are 161 other groups out there singled out on the bolo list. was the provocation, judge walton's decision in your case, in federal district court last fr. >> you know, you say they accepted the invitation, have they made the offer, just said no, do you feel like you have been stonewalling them? or is this the first time in earnest they said we take you seriously, we're going to investigate? >> well, i believe that -- such a rat race from the very beginning. and where we are right now i'm very glad, i'm very glad that we're going to have an opportunity to sit down and get to the truth of this. >> when does this happen? >> i don't know. that is for counsel to line up and decide. i hope soon. >> do you have a sense that you're taken seriously, or they're hubrising you, what do you think is going into this?

>> well, it is tough to say, it is more than a year now, more bobbing and weaving than anybody should have been exposed to. my hope is that we're finally getting to a place where the layers are beginning to be peeled back, and not only for us but all the other groups targeted. it is time for the truth to come out. >> well, judge walton on friday gave the irs to answer questions, right? >> that is right, we were very encouraged about what is going to happen there. >> were you in court for that? >> i was. >> did you get the sense, i tried cases for judge walton many moons ago. did you get the sense he was a no nonsense guy? >> absolutely, no nonsense and very thoughtful. he really got immediately what we were asking for. but we believed it was very important to bring in a forensic team and take a look at the loss of e-mails there of. and he got it, so we're encouraged. >> catherine, thank you. >> thank you.

and tomorrow, a department attorney general will go before a committee. he is expected to say the justice department will probe tonight on "red eye." >> coming up on "red eye" have wild animals declared open season on all things denim? it is the excuse losers who want to ditch their jeans and wear sweatpants 24 slr 7 have been looking -- 24/7 have been looking for and did he miss a speech because his wife wouldn't let him ride shotgun? >> the run i am late is i don't take a backseat to anyone. and why are prairie dogs tickle torturing parakeets and why isn't the government doing anything to stop them? none of these stories on "red eye" tonight. >> but i wish they were. and now let's welcome our guests. she just flu in from dc and