thanks to alex wagner who is the best. >> "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >> sinister. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump won't stop continuing to attack his two main targets. trump said that hillary clinton has to go to jail. let's watch. >> she gets a subpoena. she gets a subpoena.

and after, not before. that would be bad. but after, getting the subpoena, to give over your e-mails and lots of other things, she deleted the e-mails. she has to go to jail. >> well, going after paul ryan, trump alleged that something sinister was behind ryan's recent e-mails about him. something sinister. >> already the republican nominee has a massive disadvantage. and especially when you have the leaders not putting their weight behind the people. instead of calling me and saying, congratulations, you did a great job. you absolutely destroyed her in the debate like everybody said. wouldn't that you think paul ryan would call and say, great going. let's beat this crook. she's a crook. let's stop her.

no. he doesn't do that. there is a whole deal this. i always figure things out. there is a whole sinister deal going on. >> i always figure things out. i'm sorry. that sounds funny. last night trump pounded speaker ryan and he said he didn't want their support. >>. >> if you're hektd president, you're going to need mccain and ryan. >> they'll be there. i would think that ryan maybe wouldn't be there. maybe he'll be in a different position. but mccain will be there. they'll all be there. >> i don't know what good it does to trash people. you can say i disagree. i wish they would endorse me. but to trash him. i don't know had a good that does. >> he was begging for my doorm. >> i know. be the bigger man. >> the first sign of a little difficulty, he unendorses. i wouldn't want to be in a fox hole with these people.

>> i don't think he is likely to be in a fox hole with any of them. here's dr. ben carson. >> getting into fights with ryan or anyone else, a complete waste of time. i don't think it is helpful. i don't think it is too late if he gets on message and talks about the issues that affect the people of america. that's what they want to hear. >> and he is one of his closest backers. hillary clinton with a commanding national lead now. she is cutting into some solid red states. according to the new york times, mrs. cleanse's campaign has could not chewed that had at least two traditionally republican states, georgia and arizona, are realistic targets for her campaign to win over. and republican polling has found that mr. trump is in dire risk of losing georgia. even utah is in play. i've thought about that for a while.

it suppose clinton is tied with trump. she is running even. with evan mcmullin not far behind. in ohio, a new poll shows clinton leading by 9. and republicans never win the presidency. but cleanse is up by 9. 43-34. meanwhile, this continued fallout from the release of that 2005 "access hollywood" tape. two major republican donors are now asking for their money back. the big question is how donald trump benefits by going to war with his own party with less than a month to go until the election. this is breaking right now. the two women have come forward to say that donald trump inappropriately touched they will. one woman said donald trump inappropriately kissed her on the mouth outside an elevator in 2005. the other woman said trump was

on the plane. we'll talk about the connections of both women with whom they shared their stories. that's the hottest. do you have any reaction to that story from the trump people? >> this is an expectation that these stowers had ten to come out. more allegations, more tapes. there is a sense the last few weeks of the election will be an avalanche of new revelations and new accusations. their you're intuitive. and it looks like this won't be a danger to them, people are much more willing to bring forth their personal accounts than if they thought he would be looming over them as president of the united states. >> he was adamant that what he had done in that 2005, he had never acted upon. it was only words.

now we're hearing about possible alleged actions. people really see the presence election as coming up real soon and they want to get their story out. >> do you have anything to add to this? what is interesting, of course, a woman is 74 years of age and she is talking about something that happened to her 30 years ago. most people would say is really, really out of line. really out of line. kissing in some cases, some people have that old ethnic tradition of kissing on the mouth. i've never been fond of it. if you know the circumstances and you're the victim of it, you will say what it meant and you didn't like it at all. but 30 years ago. are this a lot of people phoning these in? >> i can say my colleague who wrote a pretty long story and got all these we will, they were

talking about former miss universe, about how he had inappropriately done things, inappropriately talked to them. that was what got these two women to come forward and then contact my colleagues. so some of this, yes, the election is coming closer. this is idea that these women felt like they were empowered to tell their story because they heard other women's stories. that's what's going on. if you read the accounts, these women watched the debate. they watched donald trump say, i didn't act on these words that you read. that i never kissed any woman inappropriately. one woman told the times that he was like straight to her face stoffel idea baltimore these women were infuriated that donald trump says he did not do these things. >> these may even be criminal matters. if somebody calls him on this.

if somebody called sexual assault. they would have a case but it is so old that it won't happen in court. but the rt could have public opinion. is this already baked into the cake? that people already know he's been raunchy with women and we'll live with it in. >> i think people will get tired of the story. they want to move on and have something bigger. number two, we're getting into this bill clintonesque of what is a kiss now. the only thing i can tell you certainty as a fact, that don't pores asked for their money back won't get it. all of this is conjecture. i'm more worried that the attacks against paul ryan and john mccain. >> let's go back. >> is it a strategy? >> he thinks when i spoke to him that he is running against democrats, he is running against the republican establishment and against the main stream media. he sees it as they have front

war and he thinks, his only chances now is to run as a populist outsider. someone who is detached almost entirely from these institutions. >> does he have any number, angry white women, angry minorities. does he think that any of these add up to high 40s would get him elected? >> bits rousing the white working which is a voters. look where he is going. in florida to the pan handle to other hot beds around the country. his strategy for people close to him. he has to get republican base excited. that's why you see this. >> don't they affect the get out the vote efforts? where i grew number philly, you still have precinct captains, committee people. you have people who live every

day of their hives for politics who like their leaders like paul reason. doesn't he need them in his armey? >> perhaps. but there is a strange position. you have them working out of trump tower. the party is divided with how it is reacting to trump. >> do you think when emthat paul ryan is sinister that what a lot of people think, that paul ryan would be quite happy if trump got his butt kicked. then not so much of a mandate for her as much as a rejection of trump. mr. conservative goes in and runs dpengs hillary and knocks her off in four years. that's what i think trump means by there is something sinister here. >> i think this is the idea that

paul ryan is setting himself for 2020. even talk to people in those rallies. what is really going on is that people feel like the republican establishment are not behind donald trump. they tone want him to went. he's saying all of this is rigged. and i think he is saying, this is how i talk if i lose. it is because the republicans didn't want me. it is not because i didn't make the broad efforts to get all these people to back me. it is not because i only relied on working class men. the reason i lost is the republican potter didn't want me to win. so he is setting that up. >> so he is going onset up the exile at the trump post office building. today trump made this threat about electing hillary clinton. isis will take over the united

states. now that's insane. isis is not going to take over the united states. >> they are hoping and praying that hillary clinton becomes president of the united states. they'll take over not only that part of the world. they'll take over this country and this part of the world. >> at what level is that true? that there are people on prayer mats around the east, in the middle east, especially, who are praying, praying -- what level of reality is he talking about? >> as a strategist. i will say this. it makes a heck of a hot more sense for him to be saying that than going after paul reason and john mccain. there is something called winning ugly. you're trying to change the topic. you try to be sensational so you make headlines. and let's not forget. hillary clinton did say that donald trump is a recruitment poster for isis.

so she is not clean on this either. he is running too much when he goes against republicans, a primary republican. this is uniting republicans against somebody they don't like. paul ryan is not john boehner. most people look at paul ryan as somebody trying to bring people together. a decent human being and doesn't have the same typo over. >> then that's -- >> i think so. >> thank you. coming up, trump says the shackles are off. a strange metaphor. shackles. how destructive can you get in the four week before an election? we know someone who ghost wrote trump's story. we'll get latest accusations. plus, wikileaks releases another batch of clinton e-mails.

pushing the idea that president obama and hillary clinton are demons. sulfuric. finally, my election diary for tonight. october 12. with clinton surging and the republicans reeling. (foot steps) ♪ (crickets chirping) ♪ (jet engine) ♪ (heart beat) ♪ (water splashing) (rain drops) (eine revving) (tires on wet road) ♪ lease e exlarating 201 lincoln mkfor $349 a month only ayour lincoln dealer.

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usa today's headline refers to the trump campaign as a suicide mission. the "washington post" says trump has declared war on the gop now that he says he's on, a strange word, unshackled. unloosed. anyway, five trump buy go on ferries to discuss his implosion. and one of them said trump is a very dangerous man the next three or four week. ever sense the release of the video of trump making lewd comments about women, he has lashed out at his own party. >> i am so disappointed. i mean both sides. to allow a thing like this to go on. this is crime at the highest level. she should not be allowed to run for president. you know that. >> for more ensight on what's going on and what trump could do between now and the election, i'm joined by someone who spent 15 to 18 months of his life

working with hill. he is the ghost writer for the art of the deal. great to meet you. you're a talented guy. you're watching trump behave the way he is in this double down i am what i am. i'm not going to change. i am right all the time. you're wrong all the time. she should go to jail. the speaker of the house is sinister. i'm beginning to talk like alec baldw baldwin. he becomes more trump. >> the primary thing about trump is that he has a deep feeling of worthlessness masked by this grand i don't think at this and this over the top circumstance. right now as he wounded animal. a blend of wounded and cornered. it is like air going out of a

balloon. the desperation to fill that up so he can feel some sense of worthiness promise him to do things that are extreme. >> i've been up there, all the walls, all the property information, who has the titles to everything. that is real. he is a successful person in money making. he has these beautiful wives, beautiful kids, beautiful surroundings. he gets to 90 in his own plane. >> you know more than i know. >> come. on he looks like, his apartment which probably cost a lot of money, looks like the lobby of a third rate hotel. i mean, what he is admired for, he actually didn't really do. he inherited a great deal of money. didn't do especially well with it. it is a myth. this whole they know is a myth. >> what is this $11 billion?

he is not a billionaire? or is he a billionaire? >> i suspect, look, i don't have his tax returns as nobody does. i suspect he might be in that range. he is worth a tenth or a 15th or a 20th of what he says. being worth a lot of money is not being worthy. >> wouldn't he think that? >> no. the way he has associated it. my net worth is my personal worth. so as there is any threat to his net worth, his sense of who he is begins to diminish. >> tell me with this. he is not a writer. most public people are not writers. they get somebody like you to do the job. then they take credit for it. i know all about ghost writing. people he know are writers and they're not. it is hard to write. and yet, what's the sense of worth? that he didn't think he could

arrestculate it? >> i do feel in some extent did i invent it. this is the shame i feel. the reason i've been out here speaking. for 30 years, i was quiet but carried great deal of guilt that i had done something i'm not proud of. then he decides to run for president and starts blig everything, starting with the fact that he wrote the art of the deal. and i thought, i need to be able to speak to the american people and say this man. i was in cincinnati, ohio. i talked to a woman in a restaurant. i said who are you for? she said i'm for trump. they were the classic ones you hear. i said i know donald trump really well. and he is a really, really terrible man. and she said, oh, really? really? >> let me ask you the good and the bad. serve a mixed bag including trump. >> he is not a mixed bag.

>> okay. he said be a floy on the wall. you said let me be a 90 on the wall. what did you discover about his behavior the as you watched him. with the unique perspective. did you determine any talent there? did you discern any talent? >> yes. one talent. the talent of, he would huff and puff and huff and he would puff until he blew the house down. and this is a relentlessness, an assaultive relentlessness. when he said i admire that you don't give up. trump is always, he is always projecting himself on to others. if you listen, the most vicious things he said are things about himself. the one thing i can give him credit for, he won't stop, he won't stop at anything. because there is no conscience. >> let's get into the sex stuff.

he said i tried to go after nancy, a very pop hard television personality. she's married! and he's bragging about it. a lot of guys would say i don't mind a little bad language. using the language to talk about. his pursuit of a married woman. his talk about physically assaulting basically women. how did that square with your experience? >>. >> the same thing. huff and puff turned into aggression and domination. he is aggressive and dominating. he has a slightly different way of doing with it women because it is sexual. with men he is trying to take them down. and it is a response to this feeling of, the first experience in 30 years of saying, oh, my god. this is a little sad boy who is he is t desperate for love.

>> i've come across celebrities. they'll treat people who they consider of their class appropriately, as a human being. when they spot somebody below the line. somebody without power, they're predators. is he like that? >> you know, it is very variable. if you think about what did he with the female pastor in detroit. he was object seek weous. he was so out of his element that he was intimidated. so i think it is a question of the power dynamic. >> we ought to learn that about every politician. i work in the city of washington where people kiss up and kick down. it is very unattractive morally. everybody kisses up to the bosses. but get somebody below them. look out. that person is in trouble. if you spot in a guy, keep away from them. thank you. you're quite an articulate fellow. i can see why you're a ghost writer. >> i'm not a ghost writer.

>> let me tell you, the mcgregor made quite a ghost writer. wikileaks releases more e-mails from the clinton campaign. trump looks to capitalize, his problem is getting the e-mails story straight. he may have gold in there but he tarnishes all of it with the way presents it. across new york state, from long island to buffalo, from rochester to the hudson valley, from albany to utica, creative business incentives, infrastructure investment, university partnerships, and the lowest taxes in decades are creating a stronger economy and the right environment in new york state for business to thrive. let us help grow your company's tomorrow- today at business.ny.gov

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russian interference in this election, and their attempt to influence on behalf of trump should be of utmost concern to all americans, where you're a democrat or a republican. >> welcome back. that was clinton campaign chairman john podesta speaking about the hacking of his e-mails. while nbc news has not authenticated it, some could be damaging like the statement that as a politician, you need both a public and a private position. or the speech of open trade and open borders with regard to atten america. another e-mail yesterday showed that chelsea clinton flagged serious kernels about potential

conflicts of interest. good for her. i don't think that hurts her. but by seizing upon the hacked e-mails, donald trump has demonstrated how easily truth can be ma nip hated and misinterpreted by him. among the hacked documents from sydney blumenthal. in reporting on that e-mail, a russian state controlled news agency reported to it blumenthal. within hours, trump repeated that information as if it was tro. watch trump misuse all this. this just came out a little while ago. one important opponent has been universally acknowledged by the nine previous reports about benghazi. this is sydney blumenthal. the attack was almost certainly preventable. cleanse was in charge of the state department and it failed to protect the united states personnel. at an american consulate in

libya. he men benghazi. if the gop wants to prays against her, if the gop wants to raise that against her. >> after learning that his words had been wrongly attribute to blumenthal, they wrote, this false story was reported only by the russian controlled agency. how did donald trump end up advancing the same falsehood put out by putin's mouthpiece? their you're a journalist. you're in a situation to see how a story is mismayed by a politician. there is gold in these e-mails that could be used by a decent politician against his rival. in this case, trump seems to be incapable of getting it straight. >> i think it is even worse. this is a man who has been

briefed by the intelligence agencies. he's been told that russia has engaged in a large scale cyber attack to affect the american election. he's been told that one of the methods is challenging documents and he has to be carriful about that. and he turns around. if he pulled it off the internet, off a russian site. any of it. he should have known. he did know. that it could have been from a russian disinformation. he just got up and read a false document on the air. or on the stage. >> thank you. here's the problem. we've been hearing about this in the two stories. there is the russian piece. do you want to be chollaboratin. this is america's election. not some global enterprise. it is us. we americans, citizens, should decide who our president is.

we. not them. the other part of the story is everybody is interested in things that get leaked. so is this a brain behind this? here we are two months out. a month out as of yesterday. from an election. so three weeks from now they drop a blockbuster. i believe this election will probably to go hillary clinton right now but probably will be a lot close ferry a blockbuster come down right before the election. is there a brain behind it that would be thinking like that in. >> there is. and there is a strategy here. you see this in the twitter account. their highlighting certain portions of it. they're shekting which e-mails to release. they say they have over 50,000 e-mails from john podesta's e-mail account. >> but the 50,000 isn't as good as one good one. >> or they could release the

whole they know. >> they dump these piles of e-mails. and the serious news organizations like the times gets ahold of it. cut the diamond right. >> it is a challenge in the media. >> we know this could be additional information out this that we don't have and trying to evaluate. their where are we going? is there somebody in moscow or somewhere else in that world that is brilliant at figuring out, what will affect this election really? >> recently, the intelligence agencies and former intelligence agency directors have been putting out a lot of information saying, please, media, please be aware of what's going on. please be aware of how russian

disinformation campaigns work. one of the big things that a reason letter came out october 6 was laid out. you will have information, really good valid information. then it will start to change and be manipulated. and then as you get near to an election, a major piece of disinformation will be leaked and there will be no time to counter it. but all the people -- >> this is what, this is lenin's stuff. lessinism. anything that advances the cause of the come nest party is what we do. is it your understanding, they still go with that ethic, screwing up elections to the advantage advantage. >> they've done it in estoneia,

they've done it in netherlands, they have a double in it germany and now they're doing it here. some of the intelligence people i'm talking to are saying there is a question evolving on what is going on with vladimir putin? i mean, he is getting actually quite reckless. >> the old history. >> khrushchev liked kennedy but he kept it to himself. i'm glad you're out there for us as a journalist. i think it is great that we have someone as a journalist, we are learning it now. the new russian republic, and what it is up to now and trying to get into our elections. we don't like it. up next, the roundtable is coming here to talk about the breaking news. two women have come forward.

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we've been following the breaking news from the new york time. two women have come forward to say that donald trump inappropriately touched them. one woman said he groped her on a may not, it gets rather graphic. and the other said he kissed her on the mouth in 2005. jason miller said, this entire article is fiction. and for the new york times to haunch a completely false, coordinated character assassination against mr. trump on a toppeck like this is dangerous. to reach back decades in an attempt. it sets a new location that on where the media is willing to go in its efforts to determine this election. it is absurd to think one of the most recognizable business leaders on the planet would do the things alleged in this story. for this to only become public decades later in the final

months should say it all. further, the times story buries the clinton financial and social media activity on behalf of hillary clinton's candidacy, reinforcing that this is truly nothing more than a mit attack. this is a sad day for the times. >> eugene robinson, the mit an his and columnist with the "washington post." and j.d., the author of the book, hillbilly, it was very well reviewed and received by the reading public. i don't know whether we start with trump. i get the feeling we're hook at a fire hydrant that has been turned on. >> look, i think that once we had the revelations and then we had trump say it was just locker room talk and i never did these things. which he was pinned down on by

anderson cooper. of course, it is natural that we would have women coming out, saying, no, actually he did do these things. >> the pattern of people when they feel unshackled, to use his term. they feel the story is developing. they're not alone. and they feel the message they have kept to themselves is part of the public discussion. this woman is 74 years old. she's talking about something that happened on an air may not. that one, the public kissing. i'm not sure about that. it is very hard to read that. my family does a lot of kissing on the mouth but it is consensual. wasn't because -- it was a sexual advance on her that she did not want or even imagine would happen. the one on the airplane, every guy and woman will say i can't believe it. >> that is disgusting. when "the new york times" reporter confront trump at her,

he screamed at her and said you're a horrible person. abusive behavior. >> explain what gas height means. >> it means when a victim feels a certain way and you say, your perception of reality is not true. >> it was done in the movie gas light. he was trying on convince his wife that she was going nuts. it kind of explains it. the new york times scheduled an interview with one of the women, leeds. here's some of that interview. here it is on tape. >> these are not memories that you want to go over. it has been somewhat unnerving since friday to be rehashing it so many times. >> you suppress it. it is not part of your active thinking every day. but you don't forget. >> somehow or other, the armrest

in the seat disappeared. and it was a real shock when all of a sudden, his hands were all over me. he was like an octopus. it was like he had six arms. he was all over the place. when he started putting his hand on my skirt, that was it. that was it. i was out of there. i wish the stewardess would come and rescue me. and then you decided, i got up. i got my purse. and i said, i'm going back to my seat in coach. >> what do you think? the. >> it is a fundamental he said, she said. and at the end of the day, do you believe donald trump who always tells the truth? just kidding, or do you believe

that woman on the tape? how can he explain, oh, yeah. >> it should be pointed out that both these women told friends and family members and others. >> contemporaneously. that adds a lot of veracity to it. >> over the years. so it is not as if this was something that could have just been concocted now. >> let's talk about the people now. this is a little more sociological. there are people that hear this conversation who are saying, media crap talk. they don't like his ideology or his threat fair enough. a lot of people leak in south dakota. in south dakota where people were against him over the weekend. they have bounced back. and they're resilient in their support for trump. i think he may have 35 to 40% of the country. no matter what we talk about, he

will get that vote. it will be like a mcgovern vote. nothing to do with principle. their anger is so close to how they think that they would rather vote for trump with all this than say yes to the establishment. i'm not knocking they will. >> it is not really a moral choice who have is the better candidate. it is about an extreme distrust of government. >> and hatred of hillary. >> hatred of hillary. a fear of authority in general. >> let's hear, why does he say today, i'm going to put her in jail. it used to be, i'm going to get a special prosecutor. why does he think that had work with the people you write about in your book? >> for a lot of these people, they see america divided on two lines. what does hillary clinton recommend, the dean of the coastal elites. because of that, they're never going to support her over donald

trump. it is not that they love donald trump. they just really the dislike hillary clinton. >> if she were a conservative, would they like her? despite her advantages in high of? >> i don't think so. one of the things this bill clinton to do, he made down his elite culture. >> he talked about his outhouse with me growing up. in hillary, that rides higher up. he was also a good old boy. >> of course. donald trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. >> he went to the best school in the country. don't forget it. and by the way, i know how to figure things out. did you matter? >> yesterday, he said i'm base clay blue collar worker. >> that's good. >> remember the godfather? i'm smart. the roundtable is staying with

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"hardball" round table. >> i looked at the questions that chris wallace picked for the third debate, if there is a third debate. so we may go through all three debates without a question about claim mat change. >> how did you get the questions? >> they're out. not the questions, the topics. >> so there was a poll that suggested that 40% of trump's voters thought that blacks were lazier than whites, but 25% of hillary clinton supporters said the same thing. i think that after this election, there's going to be an argument about what donald trump's voters were animated by and whether they were just a bump of dumb racists, it would be short sh rift to a lot of good people who are voting for trump and that it's a problem with trump's voters when it's a

voter problem. >> they're freaking out and saying they're going to go ballistic on bill clinton, and they have tons more. >> like they've held back. >> that's disturbing what you told us. when we return, my election diary for tonight, october 12. anyway you're watching "hardball," your place for politics. life and death. 600 dollars. of abuse. important step forward. the time is long overdue... pharmaceutical industry. passes - the ballot.

election diary, wednesday, october 12, 2016.

as the day went on again, donald trump went around talking like julius caesar, he yells louder and louder for the guards to come and take his rival hillary clinton into custody. he now calls for her to be thrown into jail now before she can deny him power. he sees paul ryan, he sees something sinister about him. he too had the look, trump declared today of a con conspirator. and ryan refuses to even be seen with donald trump to grab the thrown for himself. it's truly the stuff of shakespeare, with the trump now led by his own match nations. trump has gotten this far by tying himself to the anger of the people against the political class, he sensed the rage that affects citizens' jobs and lyes.

he kept up that connection with a shoot from the hip style that could be called performance art. the problem is the gamble trump took on both accounts, he bet that his anger was donald trump his act kill lee heel. one never guided by the notions of a political career. and he counted on his wild stream of consciousness speaking sometime to be wild and provocative without ever going over the edge. donald trump stands in danger of being overthrown, not by his republican allies, but by his own failure to plot a course that would gird him when the conquest for power would grow mortal, and that is now. and that is "hardball" for you. all in with chris hayes starts right now. we have breaking news at this hour, a bombshell report

from the "new york times," two women on the record saying that donald trump did exactly to them what he had boasted about in that now famous "access hollywood" tape. she encountered donald trump outside the building. she said she turned and introduced herself, they shook hands but trump would not let go, and he began kissing home run cheeks, and he kissed me directly on the mouth, she said it didn't feel like an accident. another woman, jessica leads, says in the 1980s, she was seated next to trump on a flight to new york, in first class, after a meal was served, that's when donald trump groped her. >> it wasn't until they cleared the meal that somehow or