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Mostly Discourse (and controversial topics)

@sagegreenyaps

Nuance in No-Nuance-Land (the internet)? Spooky...

Pinned Post (explanations on what you're working with here):

About OP:

I'm a legal adult living in the USA. I'm bigender, and I use (he/him) and (she/her) pronouns. Just call me OP or Sage if need be.

Additionally, I'm not a trained psychologist, I'm just a mentally ill person with at least five different trains of thought going per minute. On the front of I'm formally diagnosed with depression, and somewhat formally diagnosed with autism. I've also got OCA2 albinism.

Lastly, I'm a singlet, so I'd prefer not to get into syscourse here.

About This Blog:

Use the block button if my blog upsets you in a way that you don't want to have a discussion about. Or block for whatever reason you have, really.

I'd prefer if the people interacting with this blog are over the age of 15, as I just don't really want to do discourse with somebody that young for a handful of reasons.

I dislike echo-chambers and I'm opinionated, which is why I engage in discourse. To me, it's a form of field research done through the sharing of opinions.

The ask box is open, and anon is enabled. I will happily have a civil discussion-- one that's free of ad hominem remarks and one in which all parties involved are aware that they could be disagreed with-- from all sides of discourse. Anon-hate will either be deleted, or, if I feel like it, countered back.

This blog's activity is according to me and nobody but me. So this blog will inevitably drop in activity if I don't have any spoons to spare (Spoon Theory), or if I'm just busy.

This isn't my main-- I personally can't imagine having a legit discourse blog for a main /lh-- but I'm not linking my main from this blog. If you find my main from here, nuh-uh, no you didn't.

Also, here's a hyperlink to the first post I had to mute notifications on: it got raided by pro-sexism radfems (within 20 minutes of me posting it, might I add)... I've never felt relief so instant until that event taught me the joys of muting notifications.

About Some of OP's Views:

Against the concept of the Oppression Olympics.

Anti-harrassment. Engaging in discourse is not harassment until the arguments "break containment," such as with ad hominem attacks. Again, I hate echo-chambers.

Anti-radqueer, anti-transID, pro-alternatives, pro-recovery.

Pro-para, but harmful paraphilias shouldn't be any contact stance besides no-contact.

Pro-radinclus, pro-LIOMOGAI.

Pro-selfdx, so long as the due research has been done.

Not all coping mechanisms are healthy and productive, and not all facets of the human mind are beneficial-- however, neither is repression.

I find shipcourse labelling more harmful than helpful, but to put a label on myself based squarely on beliefs: neutralship, leaning antiship (mostly due to anti-proship sentiments.)

Pushing "child-coded" and "relative-coded" is harmful. One can absolutely have headcanons, but one's headcanons are not fact, and they do not reign supreme over canon OR other people's headcanons, no matter how many popular they are in fandom spaces.

Pro-selfship AND pro-fictosexual/fictoromantic, so long as all parties involved would be able to consent. I personally believe it's generally okay to age-up a character-- no longer viewing the character as a minor-- for the purpose of selfshipping, since I know most people can't turn off their attractions and (f/o)s oftentimes don't age in canon.

Pro-objectum. Just be mindful if the object isn't in your personal possession.

Kink should be done with all participants aware of risks and consenting. RACK >>> SSC.

You can be both sexually active and asexual.

You can be homosexual but have experience with the opposite gender.

Transandrophobia is real, as is transmisogny. Trans people do experience unique struggles that even the gender they identify as doesn't usually experience. There is also no such thing as "becoming the oppressor" outside of actively perpetuating cycles of abuse (which anybody of any orientation can do). Additionally, abuse is not exclusive to anybody.

Benevolent sexism is real and harmful.

Men (in the USA) can benefit from the patriarchy only if they participate in it. The patriarchy hurts people of different genders differently, but everybody is hurt by it in some way or another. It's better to view this through the lens of the kyriarchy.

White people (in the USA) can be hated and treated indecently, but they are not oppressed.

One's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should not affect the people who don't share those beliefs.

Pro-choice. People should be allowed to do with their own bodies what they want, ESPECIALLY if it's to protect themselves and their livelihoods. This includes that sex-change surgeries should not be forced upon intersex people.

Pro-voting. Statistically, in the USA's two-party system, every person that doesn't vote may as well be considered a vote for the Republicans, simply because the Republicans have a more active voter-base than the Democrats, despite the USA being more liberal than conservative. Voting third-partiy in presidential elections is ineffective.

The USA government is insanely flawed, especially the judicial branch. Most of this is intentional.

Remember to take breaks and cool down when needed! You're not lazy, rude, or invalid for needing to disengage from stressors of any kind.

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"The trannies should be able to piss in whatever toilet they want and change their bodies however they want. Why is it my business if some chick has a dick or a guy has a pie? I'm not a trannie or a fag so I don't care, just give 'em the medicine they need."

"This is an LGBT safe space. Of COURSE I fully support individuals who identify as transgender and their right to self-determination! I just think that transitioning is a very serious choice and should be heavily regulated. And there could be a lot of harm in exposing cis children to such topics, so we should be really careful about when it is appropriate to mention trans issues or have too much trans visibility."

One of the above statements is Problematic and the other is slightly annoying. If we disagree on which is which then working together for a better future is going to get really fucking difficult.

Someone who says they don't care if dudes wear dresses and makeup is a better ally than someone who says they're a safe space for women and non-binary people. I am not joking.

yeah I went to a gay bar recently with my husband tumblr user beemovieerotica, and a VERY confused capital S Southerner straight man in cargo shorts and a trucker hat showed up

apparently he (who through my drunken memory I remember only as Earl) liked some woman, and she told him that he wasn't cultured enough and needed to attend his first drag show (she also flaked on him)

Now I'm reasonably androgynous and was wearing makeup, a short leather skirt, and black heeled boots, but still when this guy came up to me when I was standing off alone and asked "So. Do you come here often?" with a very earnest expression, I thought. Surely not. This guy doesn't think I'm a straight woman does he????

Anyway I start talking with this guy and he has no idea what the fuck is going on but he is just a very kind and earnest dude and asked a lot of questions (while asking if it was alright if he asked those questions). I track down my husband and friends and I'm like y'all. We need to make sure that Earl has a Good Fucking Time tonight.

Man was completely out of his depth. At one point they put on a puppy auction to raise money for Pride, that started with a 6 ft drag queen in all her glory leading a leather pup out on a leash to the tune of that damned RSPCA "in the arms of the angels" song

We look at Earl. Nervous. He squints, laughs, and then goes "I was wondering why people were dressed like that!" He turned to me and asked "So they're like dogs?" And I said yeah pretty much. And he just chuckled and went "Yeah I thought so with the tails! Never seen this before!"

When the first drag king came out, Earl looked at me wide eyed and went "There's a dude version too?!" And I said yeah they're called drag kings. And he said, low, "Drag kings."

During one of the queens performances, he frowned, shook his head and told me, "Your legs are better than hers." in a tone that implied he thought there was some travesty taking place and I should also be getting paid

When he found out I was there with my husband (and that I am not a woman) he profusely apologized and said "I'm so sorry, it's dark in here and I thought you were a hot chick! I wouldn't have said nothing if I knew you had a husband, I'm so sorry about that."

When beemovie invited me to the dance floor with him later and I still had a drink in my hand, Earl said "Oh don't worry about that I can hold your drink, you get on out there and shake your ass with your husband!" Then before we left, Earl bought me drinks for "Putting up with me all night and answering everything. Y'all helped me have a great time tonight."

like. You gotta recognize there's going to people who have never had interacted outside of their of their own community. This includes you. And just because your community is familiar with all the right vocabulary and how to correctly say something, it doesn't mean they're actually going to support you. If someone like Earl shows up, confused and out of their depth but kind and curious and earnest, you gotta have patience and truck through the small things, so when he goes back to his friends and his coworkers and they snicker asking how the drag show was, he can genuinely talk about how included we tried to make him feel and that he had a great time

The person matters more than the language

I will fuckin never not reblog this.

Androqueerphobia

The term is organized as; Andro + queerphobia - to emphasize that this is a subset of queerphobia, not a subset of "misandry" which is a word that has been thoroughly poisoned by reactionary groups such as MRAs, incels, MGTOW, anti-SJWs, and others.

Definition: Bigotry against queer masculinity & queer manhood. Such as what is faced by butches, nonbinary people, transmasculine people & trans men, intersex men, and men/mascs who are gender nonconforming or otherwise genderqueer.

These are all forms of gender identity, expression, presentation & existence that are distinct from cisnormative patriarchal manhood, and posess proximity to femininity in some way, whether it be societally-imposed or from within. Because of this, queer masculinity & queer manhood is marginalized under patriarchy.

This term is meant to enmesh with similar terms used in queer discussion and is not meant to replace anything. It does not have an ideological backing aside from the belief that queer masculinity and manhood is gender-marginalized and those affected deserve a term to talk about that.

This is a stark deviation to the manner in which I usually post (and reblog), but I feel like it's still important...

So, I like lurking on the Infinity Nikki subreddit, because it's a really cute game and people love sharing their outfits on there. But man, some people can be REALLY petty there.

Case in point: this one guy just posted about feeling alienated from his male friend group because he likes Infinity Nikki, and they keep making fun of him for it. In posting, he wanted to feel a sense of community that his friend group was depriving him of.

After that post, a bunch of other posts cropped up like "am I the only 25-year old midwestern Leo with brown eyes playing Infinity Nikki?" and "am I the only Dalek playing Infinity Nikki?" That's just giving wayyyy too much of a shit in my opinion.

And these same posters want to bring up how at the dawn of the Infinity Nikki subreddit, there were a lot of posts like this: "I'm a guy and I play this game, am I valid?" After the first couple of those posts, yes, it was just karma-farming (the act of making a nothing-burger post for the sole purpose of getting interaction). But it was just this one post now, and the dude admitted in the comments that he was unaware of all the other old posts like that.

(Also, I'd just love to point out the irony of this guy being called a karma-farmer by folks literally karma-farming.)

Honestly, just chill out, damn; it's not like he said he has his Nikki running around in the least amount of clothes he can dress her in or something. Besides, I dress my Nikki up like a goth hooker anyways.

Personally, I've been scoffed at aplenty for some of my own interests because of how society perceives me, or how society feels somebody like me should be. Like, I'm a grown-ass adult that collects Pokémon cards and has a bed covered in cute plushies. I'm also seen as a God-fearing ciswoman (no.), and so people also tend to find it strange that I play video games, listen to metal, and enjoy fishing.

Nobody should be made to feel "wrong" for this kind of stuff. But that's what society tends to do. And so, to me, it's more than understandable to feel a little self-conscious when society incentivizes cismen to be misogynistic, and yet you're a cisman doing "girly shit," making you a social failure in the eyes of anybody who pays gender norms any ounce of respect.

Also, this is something that personally warms my heart: knowing that dudes play this feminine game, having a really good time as they flip the bird to gender-norms. I fucking love gender equality, systemically AND socially.

Also, just gotta love this sexual harassment of a complete-stranger (/sarcasm):

Arin, do you think pedophilia is okay as long as no kids are touched?.

Not you using the name I prefer on my main, wowza.

Anyways, gee, what a fascinating question this is?..

I think I best answered this literally just the last ask I've answered, two or three posts ago. Really, I'm not sure how much better I can answer the same strangely worded question, just going off of personal opinion and psychology. [1] [2]

Do I think pedophilia is a good thing, no matter if they offend or not? No.

Do I think non-offending pedophiles should be punished (read: just because somebody isn't being punished doesn't mean they are being rewarded) with refusal of mental health treatment, prison, and/or death? No.

I think this all falls down to how you define "okay."

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one of the things i deeply hate about terfs is how hard they've made asking questions/being curious about gender. Everythings a fucking dogwhistle and you can't even be confused about wtf is gender without being associated with their fucking asses. Like I've recently been reading about transfeminist theory (mostly in short chunks) and the 'genders are social classes', thing is confusing the shit out of me.

i have so many questions that i'm not getting answers to. what is it that women experience that other gender minorities don't? if privilege is defined by identity rather than experience, then how do we even decide what the privilege is? what does it mean to be trans? if gender is a social construct how is sexuality inherent? is gender inherent? if gender is inherent then what is it defined by?

and i don't what to ask theses questions to general fucking society becuase they're just gonna give me transphobic bullshit but if i ask these questions to the trans community im going to get called a terf

ASHDKJFGLJFAHSKLGFHDSKL

Personally, I tend to disregard a lot of aspects of theory about gender, (not just transfeminism) written by perisex people because it completely and utterly does not account for intersex experiences or identity at all.

If your transfeminist framework isn't including intersex people it just isn't good enough and you need to change it. Same can be said about a lot of things regarding other minorities.

At the end of the day, this literature is just someone else's worldview that is informed by their lived experience and their biases. There's nothing wrong with that, but by nature of being just one person, it means you cannot, on your own, truly create an accurate analysis of queer oppression because you are just not every kind of queer person. Works like these must be collaborative on a wide scale. We have to listen to each other, or groups (like my community) will continue to erased from the conversation entirely. And I won't stand for it. I don't want to be told to sit down and shut up in my own community by perisex people who have decided their struggles are just more important than mine and deserve to have all theory regarding gender oppression revolve around them.

I view most things with a critical eye, including theory from communities I ostensibly agree with & am part of; because I want this rhetoric to be improved to be more inclusive and reflective of the actual reality of every queer group. This tends to put me in hot water because people online think questions and criticism of any kind towards queer theory & literature is always rooted in bigotry because of how sludgebrained TERFs have poisoned the well.

#my worldview is that there's as many genders as there's ppl bc it's all subjective stuff#like every society and every person views their gender in a different way; they may agree that certain things are “manly” or some things are#“womanly” or whatever that's called but at the end of the day everyone experiences & interacts with their gender differently

^^^Yeah now see this is what i thought. But then what is trans? Cause if everyone's a different gender, then no ones the gender they were assigned at birth. so it warps back to what is trans and/or what is gender

Well, that's why (most) trans people have an agreement about the constructedness of gender. Gender im its essence, is whatever the authority at the time says it is. The entire world has a seemingly similar view on gender due to colonialism, because the authority of the time are the British/American empires. What they define as the norm begins to be adopted all over the world because victims of colonialism believe that emulating their oppressors will make them more likely to enjoy the benefits of colonialism. If you look closely in history, a lot of precolonial societies have views of gender that are wildly different than what it is today.

Gender is also a tool early people used to categorize their differences, humans love boxes and it's easy to assume that early humans would've made different designations for each other based on genitalia. Somewhere along the line tho, gender became a tool for subjugation (which came first? Gender or sexism? Is the existence of gender and its roles a tool for subjugation or is the subjugation a birthplace for the social categories?)

I think that's why it's so hard to define what gender is, because it really is nothing. It's not based on any material reality of how human bodies work, or any psychological reality on how we act. It's just another tool of control wielded by whoever is in power

What do u mean by pro-para? I cannot find anything about this outside of tumblr shipcourse. Do you mean pedophilia is okay as long as no kids are touched?

It also has meaning in radqueer and anti-radqueer discourse-- primarily that specific line of discourse, actually.

Pro-para can mean a plethora of things to a plethora of different people, but at its core, it's destigmatizing all paraphilias. That's what I mean.

And by also being pro-recovery, I wish people with harmful paraphilias will be able to manage their attractions in ways that don't hurt others or themselves. And it's easier to seek help when you're not being weighed down by a society that sees the best solution in putting you to death or locking you up indefinitely.

Take depression, for example. If somebody lives in an area where mental health isn't taken seriously, but they're severely depressed, they're likely to feel ashamed and not seek treatment. Almost always, this will lead to their mental condition deteriorating. This can also lead to a vicious cycle of the person feeling even more ashamed and undeserving of help. That's really not good.

On the flipside, however, you also have communities that idealize and romanticize depression and self-harm. This is also really not good. The radqueer and xenosatanism (an even worse offshoot of the radqueer community that's inherently pro-contact) ccommunities-- as well as sections of the proship community, to go back to you referencing shipcourse-- are like this for people struggling with harmful paraphilias.

Hope I answered your ask alright.

Ok, I want to preface this by asking you to please not immediately react with denial, anger, or accuse me of neglecting other groups, or just being uneducated.

Look up

'trans people india'

'trans people pakistan'

'trans people bangladesh'

'trans people malaysia'

'trans people turkey'

'trans people afghanistan'

'trans people tajkistan'

Look at interviewers, new reporters, trans life accounts, descriptions of trans communities, trans activists, autobiographies, protests, everything.

I have feared and still do fear, that one day my parents will decide to marry me off to some religious guy (because that's my moms dream), and that I will be forced to bed him and have his children. Im Malaysian, and have no other Malaysian Malay Trans men as friends. There's no doubt in my mind you're right, because I live in fear of this everyday.

My only chance of escape is getting a job in a foreign place and moving permanently, never contacting my family ever again.

If you look in any place where misogyny is rampant in a culture, you will not find trans men. Not because they weren't there or have never existed. But because they have been broken and/or killed. You will not see us in their statistics because our identities as men are not seen as real, and cannot even for a second be believed.

Dehumanizing bigots is bad, not because I want to be nice to them, but because they are human beings and they serve as a reminder that anyone is capable of evil ideation and action. Violent bigots are not fundamentally different beings from you. They are human beings, who have developed a reactionary and destructive belief system due to their circumstances combined with their biases. In a different timeline, that could've been you. Anyone can be radicalized. Nobody is immune to propaganda, not even the person reading this.

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Every threat to my safety, every mockery, every attempt to shake me that I recieve in my notifications from a radfem is like a reassurance that I'm doing a good job. It's like confirmation that I've said the right words to have upset the oppressive status quo enough to make those who abide by it feel disoriented.

So keep sending your hate, radfems. It just makes me stronger (though also a bit sad for you. Genuinely. I really do hope you someday get better from that line of doomerism.)

God, anyone else remember when everyone understood that the correct feminist position about sports was that women should be allowed to compete with men because they're just as capable? When it was a trope in media to have the mysterious star athlete who just blew everyone else out of the water to take off her helmet and reveal that she was a woman the whole time?

Now people are rabidly arguing that supposed "men" (trans women) have inherent insurmountable biological advantages in literally every single possible activity and cis women are too weak and dainty and unskilled to ever compete and must be protected, and then they try to call themselves feminists who are being silenced as if that's not just the mainstream sexist patriarchal opinion

Anyway, desegregate sports. There was never any reason to separate them by gender in the first place

Let us never forget that one of the reasons that sports are gender-segregated to begin with is because cismen felt like their masculinity was in danger whenever a ciswoman-- somebody society says is meant to be dainty and fragile-- would outperform them.

Female socialization? Worstie, I barely even have people socialization.

"Why would anybody be on the internet if they're upset by stupid things like ____?"

I don't know,

Why would anybody with epilepsy go outside?

Why would anybody with impaired vision drive cars?

Why would anybody with a speech impediment bother speaking?

...Why would anybody involve themselves so much in other people's trauma if knowing is just going to upset them to the point that they feel they must then trivialize other people's trauma to make themselves feel better?

It's important to remember, also, that you're surrounded by people on the internet.

If you wouldn't say something to and/or about somebody in real life because you know it's dick behavior*, guess what? You still shouldn't say that aforementioned something to somebody online because it's still dick behavior*.

It's just a matter of etiquette.

* dick behavior should not be defined by how others view you and your actions, but by how you see fit to treat other people (in this case, poorly). The anonymity of the internet does not hide you from yourself.

It's never a good idea to dispute the existence of oppression that aims to diminish a subset of people you aren't a part of.

White people should not be making the assertion that all racism, no matter the target, looks the same. One should not assume that antiblackness manifests just the same as sinophobia (discrimination against Chinese people), and thus, that these specifications don't need to exist.

And while I'm using racism as an example (because I just saw an instance of this occurring), this applies to all discussions of oppression.

This post isn't to say, "don't form an opinion on oppression you're not affected by," by the way. Quite the opposite-- doing just that is very important.

When one hears people discussing oppression that one has not experienced but those people have, the first thing one oughta be doing is listening. Only then can a sound opinion be made.

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If you're trans or intersex and want to adopt aspects of radical feminism, you better actually know your history.

Radical feminism was born of John Money's research. John Money is the man who coined the term "gender roles" and began experimenting on intersex infants after experimenting on adults was discouraged after the Geneva Convention. He's responsible for it taking years of therapy for trans people to prove their genders to a therapist, and would use "happy" and "successful" trans women as objects to prove his experiments on intersex babies were good and sound. He believed all males should be castrated to make the world better and safer.

Radical feminism was born of the ideology of a cishet pervert monster who mutilated and molested children for his "game of sci-fi." Radical feminists worship the dogma of a man who forced twin brothers to replicate sex acts at age 6 to try to reinforce the forced assignment of female on one of them.

If you're trans or intersex interested in radical feminism, you're interested in our extermination and control. Point blank. And of course, other trans and intersex people will lash out at you - you're approaching US with VIOLENCE. There's nothing good about bioessentialism, which is the root of radical feminist ideology. There's nothing you can take for our communities that will benefit us. You're only hurting yourself and your immediate community.

I'm tired of running into this shit. I'm tired of begging trans people to care about the root of modern intersex mutilation.

“Radical feminism was born out of a man’s research” said with no hint of irony…. I love this stupid post.

You're so close to getting it, yet so far.. (understanding your entire ideology hinges on supporting enforcement of the patriarchal control via socially categorizing people by whether or not they have the ability to impregnate or be impregnated, totally not an inherently bigoted way to form society at all..)

I've made a post about this before, and I know I've also seen numerous posts addressing this exact thing, but:

Tons of cisgender and perisex women cannot be impregnated. And tons of cisgender men can be.

Radical feminism, among other rhetoric, actively denies these facts. There truly is not one person that benefits from radical feminism.

i feel like the term “dogwhistle” is becoming increasingly misused and it’s going to become dangerous at some point

dogwhistles are used as plausibly-deniable signals to other members of the in-group to signify the person as a member, while remaining at least somewhat inconspicuous to outsiders. they are not a general “oh i recognize this as terf/nazi/hategroup bullshit, therefore it’s a dogwhistle”.

“1488” is a dogwhistle. “Wombyn” is a dogwhistle. “Globalist elites” is a dogwhistle. Calling trans women “TRAs” is a dogwhistle. Saying “total jew death” or “biological males don’t belong in women’s spaces” are not dogwhistles, they are just the explicit rhetoric of neonazis and terfs, respectively.

i need people to learn to differentiate between “this is a dogwhistle” and “this is outright bigotry” because i am tired of seeing people say “omg dogwhistle” to terfs outright saying trans women are men. please. at this point it’s just giving them more plausible deniability.

At this point it's just giving them more plausible deniability.