The Water Cooler Page 4 PDF

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1. The Day of the Flag (0 replies)

2. Wartime Survival? (2 replies)
3. Best friend's sister got raped (18 replies)
4. why do you not include body armour to this forum? (2 replies)
5. Who out bid me? (0 replies)
6. History keeps repeating itself -- French railway sabotuers arrested (Interesting) (0 replies)
7. "Terrorist or not" French government to go after explosive websites (6 replies)
8. French websites provide interesting stories. (7 replies)
9. Glycerin and Salt Water Taffy (holiday treat) (5 replies)
10. "Underground Science" article (7 replies)
11. Kid arrested for guns, bombs, etc. (0 replies)
12. "Post whatever crap you want" Thread (46 replies)
13. Nader calls Obama an "Uncle Tom," Fox News offended. (5 replies)
14. Remember, remember, the 5th of November. (2 replies)
15. Randomness.... (4 replies)
16. "Chemical Demonstrations" by Shakashiri (3 replies)
17. Revolution (17 replies)
18. Human violence and dictatorships! (20 replies)
19. Amateur Chemistry= drugs and bombs (10 replies)
20. Incomplete Ebook - Kill Without Joy - John Minnery -- REWARD (3 replies)
21. the meaning of love and friendship (4 replies)
22. Who would win? - A hypothetical situation (21 replies)
23. Zeitgeist (3 replies)
24. Does anybody like this artwork? (43 replies)
25. $700B Bailout Plan Fails! (25 replies)
26. The truth about islam. (7 replies)
27. I'm pissed off with most of the people here. (16 replies)
28. Re: hard to place a title on this :D (44 replies)
29. The YouTube Dumbass Thread (19 replies)
30. Poor them.... (3 replies)
31. The end is near, the end is near? (2 replies)
32. computer security (10 replies)
33. Chicken Shit Blaster (7 replies)
34. Ordering from overseas... (34 replies)
35. You-Tube K3wl's fingertips blown off by "blasting cap" (5 replies)
36. Kid hits molotov cocktail with a baseball bat (27 replies)
37. Energetic Materials For Energy (12 replies)
38. DJVU to PDF converter troubles (8 replies)
39. Information Swap Alternatives (7 replies)
40. Fitness (14 replies)
41. Mind Reading Program (1 replies)
42. Forum video 2008 (1 replies)
43. Hoping for the return of the latter day edit feature and beautifying (9 replies)
44. Amateur chemist raided, for doing experiments! (17 replies)
45. Welcome to Stalin's USA (3 replies)
46. Funniest chemistry video (6 replies)
47. Anybody speak a little russian? (2 replies)
48. Friend accidentally shot himself....with a gun that I sold him. (6 replies)
49. Homemade.. idiot or badluck? (8 replies)
50. Happy Anniversary (7 replies)
51. What book(s) are you reading? (41 replies)
52. Global Population control. Why not? (48 replies)
53. Composition Equation (4 replies)
54. Randomness (4 replies)
55. Limestone Ammonium Nitrate (LAN) problem (13 replies)
56. Chemistry Game!!! (5 replies)
57. Indonesian Bombs (3 replies)
58. Ethyl nitrate (2 replies)
59. Music? (24 replies)
60. Absolutely Disgusting (13 replies)
61. Supreme Court Rules That Individuals Have Gun Right (5-4) (17 replies)
62. eBay and Chlorates... (8 replies)
63. Comedy legend dies at 71. (5 replies)
64. What a bastard! (9 replies)
65. What NOT To Do (31 replies)
66. Odd fertilizer worked for AN? (5 replies)
67. High School Graduation Resembles Saddam's Rise to Power (14 replies)
68. Thought police snatch kiddies. (12 replies)
69. Joining the French Foreign Legion (25 replies)
70. A question of thermodynamics. (5 replies)
71.
72.
69.
70.
71. Busy tonight (7 replies)
72. Rules? (2 replies)
73. Modified human marker (11 replies)
74. Sevoflurane (5 replies)
75. Cell phone tracking (40 replies)
76. Alternative/renewable fuels (7 replies)
77. Insidious "Purple Liquid": Deadly Cheerleaders Strike Again (21 replies)
78. Deadliest substances (10 replies)
79. This could come in handy? (2 replies)
80. Safety: Man Killed by 145 year old cannon ball (11 replies)
81. Railcar Implosion Video (2 replies)
82. Potassium Nitrate (1 replies)
83. WMD and AN (23 replies)
84. Do you believe everything happens for a reason? (20 replies)
85. Ricin Arrest (12 replies)
86. LSS License file? (8 replies)
87. Analysis of Nitrocellulose (6 replies)
88. Question (Relationship advice) (10 replies)
89. Some good news for the weekend. (1 replies)
90. Mentioning E&W in an Interview (11 replies)
91. Gun Protests Nationwide April 16th....Anyone have plans? (18 replies)
92. How to snare a thief (21 replies)
93. New Restrictions on Nitromethane in the U.S.? (7 replies)
94. -If- a NWO came, what would you do? (9 replies)
95. A Deer Just Killed my Car (16 replies)
96. How nbk2000 spent his spring break (5 replies)
97. Financial Depression Preparedness? (64 replies)
98. What would you do with this marvelous machine? (6 replies)
99. Fuck Kevin Rudd... (13 replies)
100. nitrocellulose problems (0 replies)
101. Rogue Science DVD... (38 replies)
102. Copying Banknotes (25 replies)
103. Breaking Bad (41 replies)
104. Oakleys and Foakleys (14 replies)
105. Guerrilla's Arsenal (7 replies)
106. Dissolving lead (5 replies)
107. Hallucinogens, The Essential Psychedelic Guide and LSD My Problem Child (1 replies)
108. What would YOU do with a centrifuge? (4 replies)
109. One of my old favorite: MN v. AK v. AR (20 replies)
110. Jews Pushing Hard To Criminalize Dissent, Especially Over The Internet (51 replies)
111. Nazi handgun! (4 replies)
112. Vista: Best of whats new or worst of whats wrong? (24 replies)
113. RDX Synthesis Problems ?? (4 replies)
114. Cheapass Faraday Cage (9 replies)
115. Guerilla style aerial bombing (4 replies)
116. Seymore Lecker - k3wL or Expert? (9 replies)
117. MgSO4 as a Desiccant/Best Desiccants (0 replies)
118. Adobe to release a freeware version of Photoshop (7 replies)
119. Compilation of Explosions (8 replies)
120. Getting Used to Nitro Headaches (5 replies)
121. Entropy definition (2 replies)
122. Aerospace Engineering / Forensic Science (8 replies)
123. Appeals Court Overturns D.C. Gun Ban (11 replies)
124. Determining the Grade of Graphite (0 replies)
125. Osama Back in Crosshairs? (18 replies)
126. What do you do when you are bored? (28 replies)
127. Rogue Science was down today? (31 replies)
128. Additives for chlorate/perchlorate cells (4 replies)
129. John Hutchinson (19 replies)
130. Hack attack on server of sciencemadness.org/talk (5 replies)
131. Acetone peroxide - HELP (5 replies)
132. Newbie "Adventures" (2 replies)
133. Teflon Sep. Funnel/Buret Stopcocks vs Glass (11 replies)
134. P Switching Script (9 replies)
135. Need Mathmatical Formula (16 replies)
136. Dangerous deadly weapon used in school! (13 replies)
137. Cannon (6 replies)
138. Blast box for camcorder (2 replies)
139. Spontaneous detonations (1 replies)
140. Possible ebay sting operation (16 replies)
141. HMTD making (14 replies)
142. 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, 357 SIG vs Body Armor (8 replies)
143. Grenade Shelf Life (10 replies)
144. How to make M-80s, Cherry Bombs, & Silver Salutes. (7 replies)
145. Looking for a book review on "Boom -- Homemade Explosives" (11 replies)
146. what would do with if you found these (3 replies)
147. storing HMTD (3 replies)
148.
149.
146.
This is not147.
registered version of Total HTML Converter
148. The perfect book scanner (1 replies)
149. Amateur Local Weather Control (10 replies)
150. Interesting use of explosives (7 replies)
151. Inside ATM's (3 replies)
152. Sulfuric acid from nitric (5 replies)
153. UK Bombings (4 replies)
154. Australian Politics (1 replies)
155. Just the one post for me. (33 replies)
156. Pigs FUCKING SUCK! (38 replies)
157. Theoretical Revolutionary Strategies (72 replies)
158. It was the first time for me. (8 replies)
159. The Boston Bomb Squad at Work (7 replies)
160. A Interesting Realization. (5 replies)
161. Increase poison absorption? (2 replies)
162. Dangerous Briefcase (15 replies)
163. Spicy explosives (31 replies)
164. KIO3 - How good of an oxidizing agent is it? (0 replies)
165. Active Camouflage (2 replies)
166. House Explodes in Missouri City, TX (1 replies)
167. He's on a mission from God! (3 replies)
168. AgNO3 + S ---> Explode under hammer blow? (8 replies)
169. Easy Entry (8 replies)
170. Qantas bars man wearing 'Bush' T-shirt (21 replies)
171. Essential gear - You don't leave the house without...? (64 replies)
172. User details (10 replies)
173. Dihydrogen monoxide strikes again (13 replies)
174. Failure to properly store hazardous substances! (7 replies)
175. Unknown Liquid (25 replies)
176. BP blasting cap (18 replies)
177. Favourite commercial. (13 replies)
178. K3wl bashing (27 replies)
179. Bars Leaks Liquid Aluminum (16 replies)
180. What is a Dangermouse? (3 replies)
181. Help a know nothing. (3 replies)
182. What's your fetish? (47 replies)
183. I think I might be a very very lucky man (10 replies)
184. Dragon Eggs Compostion = HE? (4 replies)
185. Question on Ball Mills (27 replies)
186. Nitromethane Question (4 replies)
187. X:Y:Z KMnO4:Zn:S (16 replies)
188. Wound Profiles of Military Ammunition (23 replies)
189. Kill More Kids! (5 replies)
190. X Ray of Different Material (13 replies)
191. Nuclear Detonation In Space (10 replies)
192. Saddam is dead (72 replies)
193. Ouch that HURTS. Flash bites back (14 replies)
194. ATF Explosive Regulations? (4 replies)
195. NH4NO3 bomb detonator (7 replies)
196. Dvorak Simplifed Keyboard (10 replies)
197. Satellite Internet & Porn (21 replies)
198. information on lathes (11 replies)
199. whats inside (2 replies)
200. Potassium Chlorate Black powder? (11 replies)
201. Hot plate stirrers (0 replies)
202. Innovations in Robotics... (3 replies)
203. Electrical light socket wiring question (7 replies)
204. This can't be for real (14 replies)
205. Free download videos/docos/banned books/etc (3 replies)
206. Boiling Sulfuric acid (1 replies)
207. Robert Alberg/Kenneth Olsen (Ricin Manuf.) (3 replies)
208. One hundred most commonly found explosives. (0 replies)
209. EMP schematics (5 replies)
210. KNO3 for NH4NO3 (or NaNO3) and K2SO4 ? (13 replies)
211. Paranoia (12 replies)
212. Ammonium nitrate shelf life? (2 replies)
213. Who's a rat? (9 replies)
214. KNO3 Smoke Hazards (5 replies)
215. Cleaning my lab but have little time to make good chems disapear (11 replies)
216. BTNEC experiences? (1 replies)
217. Converting certain airsoft make/model guns to fire one or more fatal projectiles (4 replies)
218. Weird coming from the USA (6 replies)
219. A possible security breach notification!... (13 replies)
220. Research chemicals (23 replies)
221. Another Step Towards Totalitarianism (12 replies)
222. Totse rolls over on its k3wls (43 replies)
223. Guerilla Combat (2 replies)
224. New user with some questions on getting files (2 replies)
225.
226.
223.
This is not224.
225. Does Zaibatsu yet live? (6 replies)
226. Eliteforum - I find this very questionable (15 replies)
227. Uproar over youtube key bumping videos (5 replies)
228. A thought about an airgun gatling ... (1 replies)
229. New Look to Forum (4 replies)
230. DBC Pyrotechnics (2 replies)
231. Phenol from Toluene (1 replies)
232. Dreams (23 replies)
233. Todays rant : EDITED (3 replies)
234. Nuclear Batteries in laptops (12 replies)
235. Pranks? (16 replies)
236. The Hutchison Effect (5 replies)
237. God Bless Michael Richards AKA Kramer (26 replies)
238. We're saved! (2 replies)
239. KGB agent poisoned (47 replies)
240. New Forum Look (18 replies)
241. What do you do? (21 replies)
242. Obsolete Military Hardware (12 replies)
243. Robot sentinel (5 replies)
244. John A.Minnery who is it? (10 replies)
245. Estonian Security-related Document (0 replies)
246. Bit of related news (13 replies)
247. Another example of fearmongering (12 replies)
248. Nearly party time!! Whoohooooo!! (30 replies)
249. My Dog (12 replies)
250. Where To Buy Chemicals In The UK (15 replies)
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Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5
251. A little introduction (4 replies)

252. Monkeys are 6 times stronger than men (10 replies)
253. Kids Use AP for Revenge Attack in Australia (8 replies)
254. Los Alamos Primer (0 replies)
255. My PETN Synth.... (9 replies)
256. Not-so-non-lethal? (7 replies)
257. Can you identify this explosive?? (8 replies)
258. War Nerd on DIME(The metal dust explosive) (1 replies)
259. Your experience with lead styphnate (1 replies)
260. Potassium perchlorate (4 replies)
261. Meet the kings of KEWL... (15 replies)
262. Burying nitromethane (8 replies)
263. A little insight into the american education system (11 replies)
264. Discussion on Sabotage, and request. (17 replies)
265. Invisibility cloak (6 replies)
266. Mailing ammunition to the UK (45 replies)
267. Burns (10 replies)
268. A Russian member perhaps? (3 replies)
269. Soviet Agent Hides (6 replies)
270. I didn't expect it to start so soon. (6 replies)
271. Is this a joke or am I dreaming? (5 replies)
272. South Park makes a reference to "sheeple" (6 replies)
273. 18 months for making AP (26 replies)
274. Free International Calls (From USA Only) (2 replies)
275. Murder by Cancer (13 replies)
276. Best Organic Chem. Books/Texts (1 replies)
277. Changes to Australia's "security sensitive hazardous substances" legislation... (16 replies)
278. urushiol (2 replies)
279. If you died... (26 replies)
280. 'Video evidence, what video evidence?' (6 replies)
281. Liquid Dinitrogen Tetroxide (9 replies)
282. ATM Hacking (7 replies)
283. a car that drives itself (6 replies)
284. Swinging Dartmouth (2 replies)
285. The ball mill (8 replies)
286. The Great Escape (0 replies)
287. extracting sodium (16 replies)
288. Whats wrong with Rapidshare? (19 replies)
289. Great Firearms Racks! (1 replies)
290. LSD Being Tested on British Troops (20 replies)
291. A dream for America (2 replies)
292. WW2 Nazi tank found in near-pristine condition in a lake! (10 replies)
293. Im a rokker, yeah! (21 replies)
294. Best Gen Chem. Prof Ever! UNL Prof Arrested Over Distributing Explosives (9 replies)
295. ATF arrests evil Briton in Northern California (12 replies)
296. Recommendations on Hydraulic Presses (7 replies)
297. "Ingenious experiment" with lightning (2 replies)
298. 686 Book Flood . Keep the newbies busy (1 replies)
299. Candy Bar "Bomb" (17 replies)
300. Shooting in Dawson College (Montreal) (19 replies)
301. Ebook reader (2 replies)
302. Australian Members (25 replies)
303. Aviation Security (0 replies)
304. In pursuit of understanding (11 replies)
305. Dry Ice / Acetone "slush" (4 replies)
306. How about that "Bird Flu?" (5 replies)
307. Hand-held rocket launcher (11 replies)
308. Percussion Caps? (0 replies)
309. Opening shotgun shells (5 replies)
310. Delta Force ? (0 replies)
311. starting them young (11 replies)
312. frustrated attempt of HDN detonation....(sorry by fortuitous repeating of subject) (1 replies)
313. New OCR software, open source (3 replies)
314. Anti-Terrorism Expert Sneaks Explosives Aboard Plane (30 replies)
315. Police Arrest Teen Bombers - Drano bombers! (17 replies)
316. Cash, weapons, explosives seized in raid (6 replies)
317. improvised softair shotgun (6 replies)
318. Australian Teen Faces Explosives Charges for Chlorine Bomb (17 replies)
319. Conn. Student Heads To Court On Explosives Charge (5 replies)
320. Terrorist training manual (18 replies)
321.
322.
319.
This is not320.
321. Private forum and the downfall of Rapidshare links. (17 replies)
322. improvised chem equipment/junkyard style (7 replies)
323. Quick entry options (6 replies)
324. Covert Hostage Bomb Collar (1 replies)
325. Which Branch Of Military? (5 replies)
326. Cast TNT (6 replies)
327. Pure Ammonium Nitrate (15 replies)
328. Getting credit for uploads (1 replies)
329. Basic Fitness/Abilities (46 replies)
330. Material for mould? (2 replies)
331. PDF file 'fingerprints' (12 replies)
332. Drying hygroscopic chemicals (17 replies)
333. Legal Road to Explosives (5 replies)
334. Lets discuss the social dynamics of the movie "Fight Club" (26 replies)
335. On the Creation of a Country (38 replies)
336. Where do I start in this...thing of mine? (25 replies)
337. Judge orders online sale of Unabomber goods (6 replies)
338. Bombing cases often take longer to solve (8 replies)
339. Pipe Bomb Arrest (10 replies)
340. Amazon downloading group (5 replies)
341. Chinese alleged to harvest organs from Falun Gong practitioners (3 replies)
342. Support the Theatre (with explosions) (6 replies)
343. The conversion of model/toy guns. (0 replies)
344. Non-lethal devices (4 replies)
345. Want Help with Cell phone hacking (10 replies)
346. New weapons used in Lebanon (9 replies)
347. OCR'ing FTP (4 replies)
348. Favorite Music? (3 replies)
349. Poor Flash Performance (9 replies)
350. Lucid Dreaming (16 replies)
351. How long have you gone without sex?...hehe (41 replies)
352. ALPS Holo Problem (0 replies)
353. Torritos!!! (7 replies)
354. I never claimed to be a rightous addict... (1 replies)
355. Looking for find and copy software. (19 replies)
356. Book OCR issues (4 replies)
357. Something new to me.. (5 replies)
358. Idiots and AP (4 replies)
359. Liquefying air, or oxygen enriched air. (5 replies)
360. Interesting read (8 replies)
361. purple smoke (10 replies)
362. Para-Nitration of Toluene (1 replies)
363. Careers in pyrotechics/demolition... (10 replies)
364. vitamin c (6 replies)
365. White phosphorus... ampoule (5 replies)
366. Thermite Help! (13 replies)
367. Idiot (14 replies)
368. Methods of interrogation - forewarned is forearmed! (20 replies)
369. Duplicating UV markings (7 replies)
370. Picric acid synth overdone? Nitration buffs (6 replies)
371. Frying down power installation of a building/flat (6 replies)
372. What Weapon? (47 replies)
373. Misinformation: 4th of July. Wikipedia? (9 replies)
374. Join the Fireworks Alliance (3 replies)
375. Black powder not affected by static? (12 replies)
376. Clearing a building, quickly.....and quietly (24 replies)
377. Inert Atmosphere (6 replies)
378. Hello -- New to the Forum (4 replies)
379. The Sheeple have Bleated! (3 replies)
380. Affordable Ball Mill (5 replies)
381. Beginner explosives (28 replies)
382. Introduction and Book Offering (6 replies)
383. Rather esoteric handgun question (10 replies)
384. exiglue review (1 replies)
385. Federal Law favors us for once?! (16 replies)
386. KCl03 from match heads (12 replies)
387. Make a cheap electronic Detonator (3 replies)
388. Airsoft Ammo Sting Grenades (9 replies)
389. A Rather good day. (7 replies)
390. Guanidine Nitrate - C(NH2)3NO3 - Sensitizer Issues (2 replies)
391. Yowie/Bigfoot hunt (13 replies)
392. What happens?? (0 replies)
393. Hazards of Bleach > Chlorate? (4 replies)
394. homemade drying oven (6 replies)
395. Defcon 14 (5 replies)
396. Ripping copy-protected DVDs (7 replies)
397. editing posts... (2 replies)
398.
399.
396.
This is not397.
398. Boric to Nitric? (13 replies)
399. Offer to you: Bruker IR Introduction (1 replies)
400. Munitions Factory Explodes in South Australia (12 replies)
401. Simple Timed Fuse (3 min +) (6 replies)
402. Interesting site on pulsejets. (1 replies)
403. Legit breakins (8 replies)
404. Answer to Americas Army the Game? (16 replies)
405. Computer Tech of the Week (2 replies)
406. Pepper spray deployment (11 replies)
407. Government word watch list. (30 replies)
408. LICENCE FREE FIREARMS:europe loopholes (25 replies)
409. The Doors of Perception: (8 replies)
410. Fear, an effective deterant? (3 replies)
411. www.anarchistcookbook.com hacked (2 replies)
412. To Polverone... (0 replies)
413. Anonymous package delivery (7 replies)
414. Speeding up browsing (1 replies)
415. Importing silencers (18 replies)
416. Nanoenergetics (7 replies)
417. Rtpb? (5 replies)
418. Funny glitch on the site (0 replies)
419. 700 Ton ANFO charge to be set off (0 replies)
420. Women, Pyro & Related Hobbies (4 replies)
421. What's a good ebook reading device? (6 replies)
422. Magnesium Nitrate (2 replies)
423. Unusual search error (6 replies)
424. Britian monitoring EVERY car movement! (9 replies)
425. Best Food Ever! (39 replies)
426. Tritonal (3 replies)
427. Fuses in ww1 grenades (12 replies)
428. I gave a review to the planetary camera thing (0 replies)
429. Books available (2 replies)
430. Plans (6 replies)
431. A Warning (3 replies)
432. Posting Question (1 replies)
433. kno3 (1 replies)
434. What would you change? (6 replies)
435. Primary explosives from primers (1 replies)
436. problems with ANFO Explosives (3 replies)
437. Does anyone have a Rapidshare account? (6 replies)
438. double salts (0 replies)
439. Fake ID information on IRC (2 replies)
440. School Regulations (11 replies)
441. decrypting? (8 replies)
442. Thermite Fuel Air Explosive Devices aka Hellhounds (5 replies)
443. Prison Break. (56 replies)
444. Erythritol Tetranitrate (2 replies)
445. AP filtering (3 replies)
446. servus (0 replies)
447. newbie introduction (3 replies)
448. Tor anonymous internet network (1 replies)
449. Nitroglycerin in detonators (4 replies)
450. Online Ordering?? (0 replies)
451. Tannerite targets detonation (1 replies)
452. Attacked! (24 replies)
453. Nicotine (4 replies)
454. Ninja rocks?? (9 replies)
455. Security measures on my next computer? (51 replies)
456. A new explosive (8 replies)
457. Peroxide and carbon? (2 replies)
458. Ways to mislead/stop police dogs 2? (6 replies)
459. What would you put in an emergency kit (41 replies)
460. FICTION: NBK - Escape from Dreamland (1 replies)
461. US plans to "fight" (censor) the net revealed: (6 replies)
462. Little Spudgun + Crossbow Session (0 replies)
463. mosler safe info (1 replies)
464. I had a dream... (1 replies)
465. I used to think alcohol was difficult to buy... (2 replies)
466. Problems seeing posts (1 replies)
467. Ripping Google Books (2 replies)
468. EMP Hard Drive Cleaner (38 replies)
469. NBK asked me... (5 replies)
470. The Crucible (10 replies)
471. The Triumphant Return of Megalomania (13 replies)
472. What is a "K3Wl"? (3 replies)
473. The "Anti-Pyrotechnics" Movement (10 replies)
474. Abnormal Picric Acid (5 replies)
475.
476.
473.
This is not474.
475. Survival and Austere Medicine (2 replies)
476. Time to start preparing for the end of 2005.... (0 replies)
477. Pharmaceuticals? (0 replies)
478. Iron oxide from iron filings (0 replies)
479. Underwater AP cratermakers (11 replies)
480. Score: Nazis 24, Negros 0 (10 replies)
481. George Carlin on New Orleans: (7 replies)
482. New FTP hosting (0 replies)
483. APC gone soft???!!! (5 replies)
484. The preparatory manual of explosives by Jared Ledgard (10 replies)
485. oGame (1 replies)
486. Forum archive (7 replies)
487. How useful is N-butyl acetate? (0 replies)
488. Roguesci forbidden in Germany? (0 replies)
489. PeerGuardian 2 (1 replies)
490. Blair bans certain websites! (3 replies)
491. So, who on here is an English major? (10 replies)
492. Who started roguescience.org? (18 replies)
493. Strange experience logging in (55 replies)
494. Why so little discussion? (93 replies)
495. Crypto-Ransom Virus (26 replies)
496. Video surveillance (32 replies)
497. Star Wars, Episode 3 SUXS! (31 replies)
498. Looking for external laptop battery (7 replies)
499. Products for Engineers & The Fellow Who Lives in my Corner (17 replies)
500. Future of oil (17 replies)

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Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5
501. Equation needs balancing (5 replies)

502. And now for some comic relief... (9 replies)
503. 07/04/05 (37 replies)
504. A Use for the Self-Decrypting PGP Utility (11 replies)
505. Banned emails (59 replies)
506. FICTION: The Job, Part 2 (2 replies)
507. The $100,000 book rip-off (24 replies)
508. FICTION: NBK - The Dark Lord (23 replies)
509. Mixture of Greek Fire (21 replies)
510. PGP Secure-Wipe Failure (26 replies)
511. HE incendiary (11 replies)
512. The New Pope was a Nazi! (44 replies)
513. A Guide to Internet Flaming (56 replies)
514. nitration of aromatic substrates in zeolite cages (2 replies)
515. Should I get a Blog? (46 replies)
516. Lightning Projectors and Railguns without Rails? (23 replies)
517. beginnings? (23 replies)
518. IP address spoofing. (41 replies)
519. Raise your glasses in a toast to Myrol (47 replies)
520. Modifying Airgun's esp. for German's! (42 replies)
521. Crime-Time Television (59 replies)
522. Dinosaur flesh discovered! (20 replies)
523. Chlorinated dioxane on par with nerve gasses? (5 replies)
524. Safe Identification and Defeat Guide (57 replies)
525. Diphosgene (2 replies)
526. Isobutylidene diurea 31-0-0 (2 replies)
527. Wiping the Firefox cache (11 replies)
528. Picric Acid; Paper Dye for Love Letters! (29 replies)
529. Acetone peroxide: worth the risk? (3 replies)
530. Humor: Top 100 things If I was Ruler of the World (29 replies)
531. Synthetikal - a new chemistry forum (2 replies)
532. Hostage situations (87 replies)
533. Potassium Chlorate method guidance needed (2 replies)
534. Letter John Cleese to the USA (50 replies)
535. Good for a laugh (26 replies)
536. Defeating Airport X-Ray (58 replies)
537. Some ugly accident pictures (0 replies)
538. I'll be away for the next months (2 replies)
539. P2P securely (2 replies)
540. Lets all get our 'counterterrorism' degrees from university (19 replies)
541. Military propaganda in schools (54 replies)
542. Chimeric Breeders (155 replies)
543. Mad Science (2 replies)
544. some silver fulminate (1 replies)
545. Cold Fusion, Looks like it isn't Si-Fi anymore!! (52 replies)
546. Media stunts (5 replies)
547. Removing -Cl gently (5 replies)
548. Need help with my mathematics (AP related) (4 replies)
549. RE factor of ANNM and other explosives (0 replies)
550. Gmail account (19 replies)
551. mmm....beer (10 replies)
552. MNN and MNT nitration ratios (1 replies)
553. Another visitor... stay a while... stay forever. (1 replies)
554. 3M Security Glass (24 replies)
555. SmarTruck - how to spend silly money to get a toy (5 replies)
556. High School Chemistry demo (4 replies)
557. Video file splitter (5 replies)
558. Guncotton the Crappy way (16 replies)
559. PGP Changing. (6 replies)
560. 40mm grenade pistol (8 replies)
561. ANFO with Tolouene or Xylene as sensitizer? (7 replies)
562. safety distances (27 replies)
563. fake IDs (4 replies)
564. Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook 7th edition (0 replies)
565. Mercury fulminate question (8 replies)
566. Anyone from Norway? (4 replies)
567. Hello Big Brother. (12 replies)
568. Grandpa's blasting mix? (9 replies)
569. Bringing home the guns (11 replies)
570. Woodworking stuff for the FTP? (4 replies)
571.
572.
569.
This is not570.
571. From crossbows to cryptography (4 replies)
572. Am-241, Smoke Detectors, and Nuclear Weapons (6 replies)
573. Computer question (12 replies)
574. Looking for a Keylogger (1 replies)
575. I need help with my future! (14 replies)
576. copwatch.com (2 replies)
577. Carnivore is no more (1 replies)
578. hydrogen peroxide synthesis ??? (0 replies)
579. Suicide soon (120 replies)
580. A math problem stuck in my head (3 replies)
581. government is scared of FAEs (5 replies)
582. question for Mn2O7 (4 replies)
583. Need two books if anyone has a link. (4 replies)
584. Firefox (10 replies)
585. Airgun + Coilgun? (1 replies)
586. N-Tetrachloroethylene Diamine (1 replies)
587. Quest for longest chemical name (5 replies)
588. Say No to Grandpa Joe (4 replies)
589. Looking for file replacement tool (3 replies)
590. What would you do if ...? (3 replies)
591. NG accident- need advice (5 replies)
592. RDX from urotropine (1 replies)
593. D2O, Heavy water distillation (5 replies)
594. Before you post.... (0 replies)
595. HPLC software help needed (0 replies)
596. URGENT: How to register restorer2000 (7 replies)
597. favorite song/favorite band thread (61 replies)
598. Greetings and a quick question (4 replies)
599. Virus Problem (11 replies)
600. trenchcoat self defense (7 replies)
601. KNO3 in Australia (0 replies)
602. KewL Hunting (2 replies)
603. The E&W bit torrent... (4 replies)
604. Urea Formaldehyde (2 replies)
605. DMNB - spoofing C4 from a particular source. (2 replies)
606. azodicarbonamide (1 replies)
607. What did you get for xmass? (12 replies)
608. The Paranormal (37 replies)
609. Brown Noise (13 replies)
610. ANAl (amonium nitrate:aluminum) (10 replies)
611. Potassium/Sodium Chlorate + Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly) (4 replies)
612. The Great Phonecard Scam (3 replies)
613. The Plague! (9 replies)
614. SW Wanted : SystematiChem (2 replies)
615. Killer: live role playing game (4 replies)
616. suprnova is gone (0 replies)
617. How and where to start? (3 replies)
618. I have a photoshop quandary (2 replies)
619. Need a terabyte of email? (8 replies)
620. Can anyone translate Czechian? (2 replies)
621. Secure your Computer (12 replies)
622. MenuEdit Registration Needed (4 replies)
623. Fake Documents: A Report on BBC (4 replies)
624. Translations (0 replies)
625. Roguesci unofficial FTP - testing phase (3 replies)
626. ChemOffice Ultra 2005 (1 replies)
627. Software requests... Please lend a hand :) (6 replies)
628. Conversion Calculators Online (3 replies)
629. where's the hive (6 replies)
630. Propane and butane... (6 replies)
631. Parcel Post (4 replies)
632. Did you know? (51 replies)
633. Fd up movies (80 replies)
634. ossible bandwith-illimited solution to share files for all roguesci member (7 replies)
635. Software request: any of the CABO databases (1 replies)
636. Full Auto .22 Sub Machine Gun, Silenced... (7 replies)
637. AW ban over but opposition conducting tests... (6 replies)
638. Stupid and hilarious e-mail (4 replies)
639. Patron Saint of Explosives (5 replies)
640. Stab or Slash? (22 replies)
641. Firetruck Flamethrower (2 replies)
642. Detonating Thermite.. (7 replies)
643. Anybody we know? (3 replies)
644. Psychoanalyze Yourself! (14 replies)
645. Is the 380 tons in Iraq the smoking gun to AQ? (0 replies)
646. The Problem with FTP's (4 replies)
647. Half-Life 2 on the way :) (19 replies)
648.
649.
646.
This is not647.
648. Uses of Mercury? (16 replies)
649. Message to NBK (2 replies)
650. CNC (or G code) help....please? (10 replies)
651. translation software (5 replies)
652. hi (4 replies)
653. alternative file sharing (1 replies)
654. Did you vote today? (54 replies)
655. hushmail and others (4 replies)
656. The end of the Oil Age (18 replies)
657. "Modex Hybrid"??? (1 replies)
658. Wi-Fi "Bomb" draws authorities (4 replies)
659. Tetrameric Acetone Peroxide (5 replies)
660. improvised fuse (1 replies)
661. Brisancy? (20 replies)
662. Chem lab. (3 replies)
663. EFP tutorial?? (2 replies)
664. Dumb question about Roguesci homepage. (3 replies)
665. 350 TONS RDX, HMX, PETN in the wind! (18 replies)
666. storing gasoline and diesel (9 replies)
667. Aussie mans house raided for ordering books online (1 replies)
668. Arguments relating to religion (29 replies)
669. ftp/e-mail subscription (0 replies)
670. The Complete Metalsmith (0 replies)
671. .zip file password cracker (9 replies)
672. Newcomer's Ftp (0 replies)
673. The skunkworks (15 replies)
674. Bike Thieves (6 replies)
675. Sulfuric in Oz (8 replies)
676. Help on units of concentration please? (2 replies)
677. Any ex/military in the forum? (13 replies)
678. The Ig Nobel Prizes for 2004 have been announced! (0 replies)
679. Ansari X prize (8 replies)
680. question on rating members (8 replies)
681. Phosgene and chloropicrin in Bratislava (0 replies)
682. An interesting conspiracy site (1 replies)
683. wanted: dongle crack for spartan 04 (2 replies)
684. wanted: The Combined Chemical Dictionary 2002 (3 replies)
685. McDonalds "Bombed" by irate k3wls! (13 replies)
686. hitman (0 replies)
687. painful creativity request (4 replies)
688. toxicity (9 replies)
689. Purchasing and Owning Land Anonymously (7 replies)
690. The most brisant cracker ! (13 replies)
691. Suggestions for a graphics card for video editing (22 replies)
692. Loyalty Day? (0 replies)
693. Time for a PC reformat :( (5 replies)
694. A problem with Smokeless Powder (NC) (7 replies)
695. Tables (3 replies)
696. Bush - Kerry election parody (5 replies)
697. 9/11 Third Anniversary Today (15 replies)
698. Australian Embassy bombing (27 replies)
699. Ballon Incendiary (3 replies)
700. Curiousity Only (3 replies)
701. AP matches (6 replies)
702. Google Search Tips (5 replies)
703. just another way of anonymous file transfer (0 replies)
704. anonymous blog (2 replies)
705. anonymous mail (1 replies)
706. anonymous chatting (1 replies)
707. anonymous browsing (1 replies)
708. Yodel Bank - transferring money anonymously (3 replies)
709. US plans portable nuclear power plants (11 replies)
710. Freenet - A Free Net (11 replies)
711. Let me see if i can post or not... (0 replies)
712. what exactly is that makes you into this stuff? (17 replies)
713. The Chemistry of Powder and Explosives. (10 replies)
714. Implosion type FAE (18 replies)
715. Who wanna pay for free information? weaponscombat.com (1 replies)
716. Of axt and liars (0 replies)
717. problems posting and changing password (2 replies)
718. roguesci tshirts to raise money (20 replies)
719. LMAO at this one. (4 replies)
720. My new page on Oxy-hydrogen explosions (4 replies)
721. Peer Guardian (0 replies)
722. Its a Boy! (4 replies)
723. Decomposing monoammonium phosphate? (3 replies)
724. Zinc Chloride Solubility (7 replies)
725.
726.
723.
This is not724.
725. Xload's site (1 replies)
726. Now that things are stable again...... (8 replies)
727. Script problems? (0 replies)
728. torrents (5 replies)
729. Nut with an armored bulldozer... (2 replies)
730. Pathetic and Hipocritical Laws (7 replies)
731. n3ver 2 0ld 2 B k3wl- (3 replies)
732. Tetrahydrofuran in Oz. (2 replies)
733. A quick question for robin (or anyone else who might know) (0 replies)
734. Nitro accident (non-explosive) - HELP ! (8 replies)
735. Formaldehyde from Hexamine (1 replies)
736. Port of Texas, anyone? (1 replies)
737. Nitrazine (1 replies)
738. What's your favorite "man-church"/tool-store? (9 replies)
739. EOD in Iraq (2 replies)
740. Ready.gov parody (3 replies)
741. Acetone Peroxide Through Ozone (10 replies)
742. Development in Iraq (6 replies)
743. Chinese Alchemy ??? (9 replies)
744. Nick berg terrorist video (53 replies)
745. Body disposal (42 replies)
746. Gelled acetone/nc? (4 replies)
747. Summer is Fireworks Season (9 replies)
748. Good for nitration or not? (5 replies)
749. Look at this bullshit [plagerism alert] (26 replies)
750. Helo kills - Thermal Imaging view... (Graphic) (32 replies)

Log in
Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5
751. DEA Agent Shot Himself - whoops (20 replies)

752. Good source of Mg? (8 replies)
753. Terrorists and AN restrictions (8 replies)
754. Secret Service taking Job to new levels (5 replies)
755. I see dead people (28 replies)
756. Nice "I Love Explosives" Decal (0 replies)
757. Anybody know how to edit djvu files? (5 replies)
758. Knives, the Real Steel. (19 replies)
759. Decent Piece of Iraqi Home-engineering (3 replies)
760. Slashdot: This Robot Collects Fingerprints (0 replies)
761. Police Foil Bank Robber's Scuba Getaway (14 replies)
762. Binary Cracker. (5 replies)
763. Entomopter: Exploration or Espionage of the Future? (2 replies)
764. Detonation Films (1 replies)
765. In search of opinions...APWAX? (15 replies)
766. Black book of arson by Lyle Whitney (4 replies)
767. How to increase your AP yield... (13 replies)
768. Ghost town (25 replies)
769. slaughterhouse (Question) (13 replies)
770. New Identity (3 replies)
771. Perhaps the dumbest thing ever with a 25 shot cake! (1 replies)
772. Are rockets legal in Australia? (4 replies)
773. 3.5 tonnes of stolen ammonium nitrate in Australia (6 replies)
774. Potash of Ammonium Nitrate (3 replies)
775. 660 kg of dynamite and 5000 detonators under your bed? (7 replies)
776. Metal additives in dynamites (6 replies)
777. A little close for comfort (18 replies)
778. Magnesium Extraction From Epsom Salts (8 replies)
779. Explosive Enthusiasts say the darndest things..... (19 replies)
780. Replicas and their sizes (6 replies)
781. Look out, it's more BS from Australia's tabloids (6 replies)
782. The Forum has been ATTACKED! (4 replies)
783. Improvised fridge (7 replies)
784. Booby traps (3 replies)
785. Hexachlorobenzene (7 replies)
786. Making the Ultimate Suit of Body Armor (6 replies)
787. aeroponics or aero-hydroponics (1 replies)
788. More Stable AP? No Way! (7 replies)
789. Microwave Concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide Lab (12 replies)
790. Do you get the subliminal message? (4 replies)
791. Giving up your DNA ? (3 replies)
792. Light in the water (8 replies)
793. testing KNO3 (9 replies)
794. a few quick issues (6 replies)
795. How would you... (2 replies)
796. Forum woes and impending doom. (17 replies)
797. E-Books... (5 replies)
798. power labs (1 replies)
799. PETN charges-amounts needed to do the job (7 replies)
800. Bionics - Robotic legs (0 replies)
801. Book request: Build your own fuel cells (6 replies)
802. Dmso=msm (2 replies)
803. Kewls and Cakes (3 replies)
804. Phone Sex (2 replies)
805. fall-out (of hair that is) (5 replies)
806. Annm +al (7 replies)
807. Historical K3\/\/ |_ ness (0 replies)
808. fistloads (9 replies)
809. Searching for a M72 66mm Law Rocket (8 replies)
810. AP used in bread making?? (7 replies)
811. A short guide to "tagging" (3 replies)
812. basic chem know-how ? (7 replies)
813. Oxygen on the Sun? (7 replies)
814. About Madrid's bombs (24 replies)
815. A request (1 replies)
816. EOD school pics (11 replies)
817. Physics experiment (9 replies)
818. My greetings, hello to the NeWb post. (7 replies)
819. Good news (5 replies)
820. Please help! How does this beautiful magic trick work? (1 replies)
821.
822.
819.
This is not820.
821. Does someones want to correspond with me ? (2 replies)
822. How to throw knifes ? (9 replies)
823. Plucking Video (6 replies)
824. An white smoke (0 replies)
825. Jackasses of the Month (7 replies)
826. Anatomy of a Firework (2 replies)
827. Financing your life (1 replies)
828. Pernitric acid (1 replies)
829. how bad is google being censored? (13 replies)
830. KNO3 -> KClO3 question (3 replies)
831. Dogs (2 replies)
832. basic/newbies gide to distilling nitric acid (5 replies)
833. Iron Titanium Oxide (4 replies)
834. Lego (12 replies)
835. Sodium/potassium chlorate preparation? (1 replies)
836. An/mnn/c (1 replies)
837. Train Explosion in Iran (1 replies)
838. Voluntary Human Extinction (6 replies)
839. Glycerin (1 replies)
840. Copper (II) Permanganate (2 replies)
841. Extracting Red Phosphorus (6 replies)
842. Kids party ideas (15 replies)
843. Aluminum Powder (KMnO4/Al/S Flash) (8 replies)
844. Huge Meth Lab Bust Video (5 replies)
845. Get them while you can... (0 replies)
846. Help Save The Second Amendment (1 replies)
847. Largest (20 replies)
848. Buying/Finding Glassware (7 replies)
849. basic fiream care qurestion (7 replies)
850. Piracy Raids In Australia (0 replies)
851. Brainwashing Manual (0 replies)
852. Has someone on the forum been up to no good? (4 replies)
853. One time encryption (4 replies)
854. Hamas, PLO and the tactics used (5 replies)
855. Can you help? (2 replies)
856. Massive EGDN yeilds? (3 replies)
857. So you think you're good at math? (16 replies)
858. Caveman Chemistry (1 replies)
859. GE Plant for landmine location (6 replies)
860. The copy of Call Of Duty that's on the FTP (14 replies)
861. "Helping" someone lose their job. (13 replies)
862. How to POST images. (7 replies)
863. Ballistic Sheeting (11 replies)
864. the dumbest question ever (4 replies)
865. non-conical/hemispherical SC's (1 replies)
866. acetic anhydride (8 replies)
867. source of dimethyl aniline (2 replies)
868. The ultimate SC (2 replies)
869. Possible performance enhances for Zn+S (3 replies)
870. What to do if you get hurt (1 replies)
871. The Post Office (11 replies)
872. samosa's Deep Thought (14 replies)
873. Digital Scales (9 replies)
874. car (borrowing) with t.v remote (2 replies)
875. South African Members (0 replies)
876. Street Lights = Grow Lights? (19 replies)
877. Diesel (22 replies)
878. NH4ClO4 Based eplosives ? (0 replies)
879. 2nd newbie kno3 question (13 replies)
880. Chlorine+Alcohol+12 year olds=hurt (10 replies)
881. Cant Find them.... (8 replies)
882. Nitro Acid HNO3 (10 replies)
883. CAD Program (21 replies)
884. ittle known facts of Napalm (9 replies)
885. Legality (18 replies)
886. Home made nuclear device (53 replies)
887. Nano Thermites! (12 replies)
888. Rogue Science (7 replies)
889. diphe/nilethane di/isocianato (6 replies)
890. petn by H2SO4 + AN (8 replies)
891. Interesting Videos (27 replies)
892. Converting .mov to any other format (2 replies)
893. Magic Lantern (2 replies)
894. First use of land mines? (1 replies)
895. Idiot of the month (28 replies)
896. Cruise Missle Man Arrested in NZ? (5 replies)
897. PARTAL detonation (7 replies)
898.
899.
896.
This is not897.
898. Apache Sniping (19 replies)
899. newbie kno3 question (2 replies)
900. Blast chamber (4 replies)
901. where to post about mailign stuff? (6 replies)
902. looking for italians members! (1 replies)
903. Myrol and nitroesters (1 replies)
904. Car Bomb detonated in Sydney (44 replies)
905. Nitric acid (4 replies)
906. Optimizing Black Powder for cannons, mortars, or pyrotechnics (14 replies)
907. My new computer! (24 replies)
908. Visco fuse (1 replies)
909. Oxygen (6 replies)
910. HELP-hopelessly stuck with AP (17 replies)
911. Two possible lead Azide replacements? (7 replies)
912. Einstein's Riddle (13 replies)
913. Where to get the components for Bp in england? (20 replies)
914. Your, Trigger/Motivation/Inspiration (20 replies)
915. Leaving all my loves behind (64 replies)
916. The surreal US security machine (20 replies)
917. Alcohol and Distilleries (3 replies)
918. The profecy is true (17 replies)
919. Looking for diagrams... (2 replies)
920. PGP Unsafe? (28 replies)
921. Aluminum Sulphate (0 replies)
922. Dog grabs firework video (9 replies)
923. The Sopranos (4 replies)
924. 11 year old in UK arrested over treehouse... (11 replies)
925. Ramjet Design Discussion (7 replies)
926. Storing Explosives....I know its stupid... (27 replies)
927. Can us n00bz still post? (5 replies)
928. Hackthissite.org (29 replies)
929. Military Ammo Case (12 replies)
930. What does RTPB mean? (3 replies)
931. The origin of the Grinch. (18 replies)
932. Whats everyone got planned for new years eve? (31 replies)
933. New ruger 10/22 (11 replies)
934. Det cord in the concrete (7 replies)
935. Kewls on tape! (52 replies)
936. HNO3 Synth using HCl (3 replies)
937. Underground Bunker made by myself (23 replies)
938. Someone help me out here, Zeolites... (4 replies)
939. Nigger manual (135 replies)
940. Isopropyl peroxide? (0 replies)
941. AP mass production (2 replies)
942. Aluminum+Pyrodex (10 replies)
943. Learning to Drive (20 replies)
944. What ever happened to FTP Disks (1 replies)
945. Urban Survival (16 replies)
946. giant fountain w/ whistle comp? (6 replies)
947. MSN Encryption Plugin (10 replies)
948. Indestructible eh? (48 replies)
949. test (10 replies)
950. RTPB's (25 replies)
951. Blow gun dart poison (20 replies)
952. Testing of unknown explosives (9 replies)
953. DIY Cruise Missile Grounded (31 replies)
954. Carbon Rods (5 replies)
955. Nitro paint-explosive? (13 replies)
956. cal hypo and sugar (4 replies)
957. Ammoniumperchlorate (9 replies)
958. The Scan Scam (25 replies)
959. How to calculate critical mass for fissionable materials? (11 replies)
960. Ammonium Dichromate (6 replies)
961. 6.00 for a lb of Citric Acid? (5 replies)
962. my god i remember ironwarlock (5 replies)
963. Google knows best? (8 replies)
964. hexamine dinitrate and nitromethane (1 replies)
965. Chem Software (3 replies)
966. Radio Match 2 (1 replies)
967. Sound in relation to depth of a charge of APAN (11 replies)
968. Permanganate Synthesis (13 replies)
969. Different coloured iron oxide? (2 replies)
970. Does anyone know whats happening to my account? (5 replies)
971. New UK Fireworks Laws (13 replies)
972. Michael Moore (37 replies)
973. SImple HV transformer for NItric acid production (6 replies)
974. Forum Customs (7 replies)
975.
976.
973.
This is not974.
975. about kingspaz (30 replies)
976. Persulfates (Peroxydisulfates) (14 replies)
977. Welcome member 5000! (10 replies)
978. multishot barrel loaded guns and mortors weapon (6 replies)
979. What explosive next? (10 replies)
980. any weapon plans for a .308 (6 replies)
981. Newbee (2 replies)
982. Take a look (22 replies)
983. Any Brits Here ? ( special request ) (3 replies)
984. EOD Career (15 replies)
985. "Useless thread" (9 replies)
986. what book (16 replies)
987. Commiserations to all the Aussies out there! (4 replies)
988. Using AP and AN (1 replies)
989. Mega's Story (15 replies)
990. 1st go at AP, gone well (4 replies)
991. Car bomb Crater sizes (Bali nuke?) (11 replies)
992. Creating a ftp community (10 replies)
993. Whats it to be sir? (35 replies)
994. Reliable improvised fuse - Howto (3 replies)
995. Wheel of Time #10 Crossroads of Twilight (3 replies)
996. jpeg encryption (5 replies)
997. Cardboard Tubes (4 replies)
998. Cost: low explosive vs high explosive (8 replies)
999. E&W Private network(Wireless) (14 replies)
1000. Protecting data? Physically hide it?! (25 replies)

Log in
Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5]
1001. [un]Offical Forum Flame Form (13 replies)

1002. Molotov related chemical (4 replies)
1003. War on information? (12 replies)
1004. Pharmacy drug index (3 replies)
1005. Howdy All New to Forum (3 replies)
1006. silver and coper (3 replies)
1007. PGP Disk- More than 1 password (7 replies)
1008. Shimizu's Fireworks, The Art, Science & Technique (4 replies)
1009. drugs (10 replies)
1010. Skin Windows! (13 replies)
1011. remote detonation (3 replies)
1012. Sexual Pyro Arousal (1 replies)
1013. PDF creation? (3 replies)
1014. Pyro laws in florida (0 replies)
1015. What has been your worst accident? (175 replies)
1016. organic synth via electronics (0 replies)
1017. HE explosions (6 replies)
1018. safety of P2P software (1 replies)
1019. Firecrackers (13 replies)
1020. Is it just me, or does Jackass suck? (33 replies)
1021. Halloween fun.... (20 replies)
1022. Imprinting keys... (1 replies)
1023. Hillmans site (4 replies)
1024. Pgp (11 replies)
1025. Small furry creatures ---> Red Mist (34 replies)
1026. Impurities and dyes in Drain H2SO4 (4 replies)
1027. Michael Ammar's "The Crazy Man's Handcuffs" (3 replies)
1028. H2SO4 Accident (4 replies)
1029. Getting shot with a spud gun and the human response (24 replies)
1030. My IP is banned? (14 replies)
1031. Making acetaldehyde or formaldehyde (9 replies)
1032. Safety issues (18 replies)
1033. private investigation (5 replies)
1034. Vote Arnold (funny) (0 replies)
1035. stolen bike (3 replies)
1036. Searching Tips (6 replies)
1037. shit distillation (3 replies)
1038. My precious EMC (5 replies)
1039. TAG and Potassium Nitrate (3 replies)
1040. Can't be just coinsedence.... (3 replies)
1041. More Airport Idiocies (4 replies)
1042. acid and base strength of alcohols (3 replies)
1043. solubility problem (1 replies)
1044. How did you come up with your forum name? (113 replies)
1045. Drop Pops (3 replies)
1046. stuck stoppers (6 replies)
1047. two questions (1 replies)
1048. how I got REAL detos cases (6 replies)
1049. A new gun (14 replies)
1050. CrO3 Ideas? (4 replies)
1051. Detonating Chlorates (7 replies)
1052. RDX by acetic and para (11 replies)
1053. hypobromites (8 replies)
1054. Mr-Eckted is back (1 replies)
1055. copper ammonium complex? (2 replies)
1056. Does It Really Matter? (9 replies)
1057. Creating a FTP server (1 replies)
1058. Snow Machine (6 replies)
1059. AP newbie questions (9 replies)
1060. Where do you want to go from here? (11 replies)
1061. Modified Haber Process (3 replies)
1062. Vestas (strike anywhere matches) (4 replies)
1063. Basketball Bomb (2 replies)
1064. glossary? (3 replies)
1065. anyone have VB6 professional edition or better (16 replies)
1066. Nukes....good or bad..? (16 replies)
1067. Looking for Windows 3.1 (8 replies)
1068. H2SO4 Question (2 replies)
1069. Fruit of Death? (5 replies)
1070. Phosphoric Acid (4 replies)
1071.
1072.
1069.
1070.
1071. Brits: Looking for a job? (2 replies)
1072. milk white NG (3 replies)
1073. Last call forumites (3 replies)
1074. A few questions regarding PGP (2 replies)
1075. German demo group "Farbrausch" kicks ass ! (3 replies)
1076. Greatest Disappointments (6 replies)
1077. forum file sharing (10 replies)
1078. Your Forum member number (6 replies)
1079. The Great Google Hunt (35 replies)
1080. Question on Forum History (RTC) (9 replies)
1081. smuggling help (24 replies)
1082. Sulfuric Acid Absolute Gravity (8 replies)
1083. Help please (5 replies)
1084. An (3 replies)
1085. I need some feedback (9 replies)
1086. It's not good to brag but... (16 replies)
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The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Protecting data? Physically hide it?!
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tingtao November 12th, 2003, 02:58 AM

I did a search on the forum looking for other's input as to methods of keeping data private from prying eyes. I came across this thread:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1693
Reading through it, I did not see any reference to actually hiding the hard drive; physically.
After all, it's the best protection, if the drive can not be found.
With all the methods mentioned, there is always a negative. Assuming a drive can be effectively hidden and protected from the elements, this would make the most sense. No need to worry about de-cryption,
data forensics, or having to destroy your data, etc.
Of course there are numerous locations to hide items. My concern is protecting the removable drive from the damaging elements such as water and fire. The smallest firesafe I have come across was the typical
Sentry, approximately 18" x 12" x 6". I feel this is obviously too large just for a hard drive and also a bit too big to effectively and convienently hide.
I am working on my own design and would like to hear any ideas for designs. Or for that matter, a hiding space that may, in itself, naturally provide water and fire protection.
As you know, the largest consumer of space in a firesafe is the cement walls. I am researching to see if there is a thinner, alternate material.
Also to keep in mind, media is more delicate and needs higher protection, hence, specific media safes.
I am not sure if this is too complicated of a task to take on, but of course, I won't know unless I try.
Therefore the reason for this post; maybe another can help with some insightful input.
Thanks all!
Microtek November 12th, 2003, 07:33 AM

If you are going to bury your hard drive to hide it from the police, why not just use a sealed plastic box ? If they have a search warrant a safe will just make it easier to spot and will announce that you are keeping
something of import there....
Rhadon November 12th, 2003, 07:47 AM

If you put the HD into a safe you can just as well encrypt the data you want to hide. That way you can still use the drive without having to plug it in at first, and remember that if they do a raid they are likely to force
you to open your safe or open it up themselves if you refuse to do so.
Hiding it outside the house can be done by anyone just like one would hide any piece of evidence when the HD is put into a sealed plastic box like Microtek said.
Moving to Water Cooler. Be more careful about choosing the right section in the future.
Anath November 12th, 2003, 08:03 AM

I keep all my 'sensitive' stuff on a 256Mb USB keyring. And I take it with me, obviously :)
You can get them in 1Gb flavours nowadays, That should be more than enough as long as you aren't saving movies on it. You can even boot from them on modern PC's, so keep a version of DOS and some dos file
viewers on it, and you are set. No need to get complicated and waste space if you are only reading doc's and pdf's..
A pair of pliers or a stout boot will crush the EEPROM inside it, and I'd like to see forensics piece -that- back together. (I know it can be done, cost & difficulty would be outrageous though)
Jacks Complete November 12th, 2003, 10:43 AM

Anath,
I use similar, with a 50Mb encrypted partition. It can be hidden in plain sight, in a digital camera or PDA.
With the encryption, if they put it all back together again, you are going to be fairly safe even if you give up the password, since if they have any data loss whatsoever, it won't decrypt.
In the UK you can go to jail if you don't give up your password, but here, you clearly have, so you would be fine. And you could always lie!
zeocrash November 12th, 2003, 03:05 PM

yeah it's a bitch that you go to jail for not revealing your password, but i'm sure it's a lesser sentence than the one you would have got, besides you can always use the civil liberties people to help you in court
ALENGOSVIG1 November 12th, 2003, 03:51 PM

How about compact flash? They're tiny and could be easily hidden anywhere. Hell you could swallow it if need be. :)
You can fit a gig on some of those tiny buggers.
Sparky November 12th, 2003, 05:18 PM

I've heard IBM microdrives are getting fairly large too.
As far as I can see hiding a hard drive is going to be pretty freaking hard if they know it exists and actually look for it. There is no getting around that it is a rather large piece of metal which can be found by a metal
detector, so burying it is pretty unpractical. Plus you have to remember where it is and dig it up every time you want to use it which would be a real PITA. Also, even if you have a good case for it the drive could
still probably get damaged fairly easily.
I like the little flash devices idea, they are so much easier to hide and destroy if you need to. Say for example you could have a little box that it sits in, and if someone tries to access it the wrong way it turns on
and off an electromagnet a bunch of times.
tingtao November 12th, 2003, 06:45 PM

Well yes, I was refering to the hiding of the actual safe. I thought about flash memory, because of its size and ease of destruction, but of course, it is limited in memory. But now I am feeling that the two benefits
outweigh the negative, well except.....
I simply have way too much data, apprx. 160GB! (Yes, a lot of video).
I dream of the day (very realistically in the near future) when a terabyte compact flash card is released for under $200. Wow that'll be great!
I will be still working on a tiny fire/water safe for the HD, seeing that large CF memory size is a bit distant in time. The HD to be hidden is one aside from the normal use drive in the computer so there will be no
thought of even looking for it (unless they are there specifically to look for data, of course).
Again, I feel the effective hiding of data is the best route. By holding an encrypted drive in their hands, this in itself raises suspicion, whether warranted or not, especially by refusing to give a password.
CF is best for hiding. Hopefully, at the rate technology has been moving, a 1TB CF for $200 will be released in two years and then many of our data security problems will be solved. As it was stated, you can hide
these things almost anywhere, now just imagine a 1TB MMC!!
By the way, if you snap an IC in half, is it truly destroyed? What about the remaining transistor gates holding the data in a non-volatile state? Could these be read? Computer foresincs is an amazing field as you've
seen, so it wouldn't surprise me. But at the same time I would think that the architecture of the IC is one that incorporates the entire chip in order to be read, period. So they would literally have to 'stitch' the
pieces back together...I don't know about that one!
Tuatara November 12th, 2003, 07:11 PM

EEPROM can be read with an electron microscope, I believe. Thats how some proprietry chips get their software reverse engineered for making cheap knock-offs. Though if you crush the chip to dust you'll never
recover the data. It would be a 10,000 piece 3D puzzle, just 3mm square!
Anath November 13th, 2003, 05:27 AM

Unless they suspected the I.C to have de-activation codes for a hidden nuclear weapon in Washintgton D.C, I wouldn't worry about it. You are subscribed to an E&W forum, how hard can it be to crush a TQFP
package I.C into powder? sheesh. Get a rock.
The whole point is to have it with you, so nobody can access it without your knowledge, and you have the power to destroy it before anyone can force it from you. I suppose I would keep a backup USBkey hidden in
a 1" auger hole in a wooden fencepost on the side of a country road 100km's from where I live, or something equally creative. A GPS might be a good investment.
tingtao:
You have 160 Gb of highly personal and compromising information you need kept secure? or is it more like 100Mb of explosives ebooks and 159Gb of Nasty Porno ;) .Consider what you -really- need kept hidden, and
what is just 'fluff' that the cops / feds / NSA wouldn't care about anyway.
Wild Catmage November 13th, 2003, 06:27 AM

An asbestos/concrete mix, or asbestos on its own would be a good choice of material for fireproofing.
It is fairly heatproof - my experiment involved taking a 2cm thick sheet of asbestos/concrete and leaving on top of an open wood fire (with one side of the sheet in contact with the flames) for 30 minutes. After this
time, it was warm, but I could still rest my hand on it without burning myself.
However, if asbestos/concrete is rapidly cooled cooled down, e.g. immersed in water, after being in a fire, it will shatter quite violently (as I found out). Another problem with these materials is that they can be
hard to get hold of, as certain types of asbestos may be banned where you live.
Rhadon November 13th, 2003, 05:41 PM

A member who is still in his 2-week-waiting period (Gotcha) asked me to post the following for him. That must stay an exception but since the discussion would probably be over when he's got the right to post I'll
do it.
I don't see the purpose in planning on hiding your hard drive; doing so means
the data contained on it is inaccessible, and it assumes you'll have time to
remove and hide the drive. What happens in case of surprise (hint:
"they" plan for surprise, and are good at it)? Are you going to
gather all the info you think is relevent, remove the hard drive, and never use
that computer/new hard drive to access the same sorts of info? Forgive me if I
think that's a scenario that's unlikely enough that it'll bite you in the butt
when you thought you were being smart.
I'd suggest you look at a couple of other alternatives:
1) Encrypt your entire hard drive. I'm impressed with a product called Safe
Boot Solo, which uses AES encryption to encrypt the entire drive, and loads
itself before the operating system to decrypt on the fly. This only works with
Windows, but there are encrypted filesystems you can install under unix as well.
The advantage of encrypting all your data this way is that you can turn off your
computer and no-one can access the data without the key phrase. You're safe as
long as no-one has found a sneaky way to get your passphrase ahead of time
(insert anti-USAPATRIOT 4th Amendment clause here).
2) Encrypt storage on CD. If you just want to store something for future
reference, you can Zip it up, label the archive "chicken recipes," and
encrypt the entire thing with PGP (this is a feature that's included in the
commercial version of PGP, and used to be included in at least one version of
the free distribution -- see http://www.pgpi.com for details). Ideally, you'll set it up
so PGP encrypts the Zip archive and adds the executable bits to it to make it
self-decrypting on any Windows-based machine, to anyone that has the passphrase.
Once this has been completed, save a copy for yourself, and hand a copy to a
friend and mention something about financial records that you want stored
off-site in case your house burns down. As an aside, throwing your financial
data (also encrypted) on this same archive is a decent idea.
Non-Windows alternsatives include using GPG to encrypt the archive to a
pass-phrase or public key.
3) Use PGP-Disk or an alternative (there's one out there that was created in
Delphi; the author released his code a while back. Can't remember the name of
it, but I believe the non-commercial version is no longer supported). This
creates an encrypted file on disk that's of arbitrary size, and allows you to
use PGP to mount the file as another partition when you enter the passphrase.
Call it your S: drive for "secure" if you like. Simply unmount the
drive, and the data should be inaccessible. The advantage of going this route
is that you can back up the entire file to tape, and it's stored in an encrypted
form.
I don't mean to come across as a PGP-bigot, as there are applications out there
that claim to do the same operations that PGP/GPG do. It turns out crypto is
hard to do correctly, and I tend to trust applications that release the source
code and are popular enough that people have seriously examined the code for
flaws. PGP qualifies -- see the newsgroups sci.crypt and alt.security.pgp for
more details.
Oh, do a search for "passphrase FAQ" before choosing a passphrase.
Most are notoriously insecure, and you'd be surprised how many
"unguessable" passwords are found within minutes with typical
computing hardware and a good dictionary (the last I used was over 200 MB of
text, plus common permutations like replacing 'e' with '3', and appending
numbers to the ends of words, and combining words, and...)

I have come across a nice utility, DriveCrypt (drivecrypt.com). What I like a lot is that it is a product that is from outside the U.S., therefore minimizing the backdooring by our fellow government. This company
does not have to follow the requests of the U.S. Government like that of other encryption programs within the country.
Also to note, Sony is coming out with a new line of Microvault 'thumbdrives' one of which has a built in fingerprint authentication gate. I still don't know if it encrypts all the contents of the drive or if it's just an
encrypted wall, where the data could be still accessed by manually reading the rest of the IC, and who knows if there is a backdoor, considering that it will be sold in the U.S.
But yes, how paranoid is too paranoid? After all, like stated, they're not looking for de-activation codes.
What I do like about storing a backup outside somewhere is that most places are protected against fire unlike in a house. That solves the safe problem. It's really just a moisture issue, nothing a water tight
container and some dessicant can't solve.
If one was not frequently accessing their E&W data, then it would be fine to store it long term in a hidden place and retrieved when it was actually needed.
Thanks for the asbestos tip. I've been researching some fireproof textiles that are apprx. 4 times thinner than the concrete in current safes, but it looks like they are extremely expensive. The stuff used in the
NASA shuttle's is out of the question. It will not be practical.
So my focus is back to drive encryption of hard drives and my dreams of increased flash memory.
My only concern, what if you encrypt all your data (and backup data) but for some strange reason, the encryption fails and you can't access the data anymore, what then? This is why I always wanted to have a
copy somewhere, well hidden, that is in its raw form.
O.k, maybe I am overly paranoid, but hey, you never know.
So to realign this thread, what are you guys using for drive encryption programs? I prefer the type that allow you to 'travel,' meaning the program is not required to be installed on other machines in order to access
your data. Also a safety that certain sectors of the drive can't be read in a lab, bypassing the password gate. All data should be encrypted by being in one folder or 'vault' but at the same time not take hours to
encrypt and decrypt everytime you want to add to it. It should be 'on the fly'
Thanks again guys for your input.
James November 15th, 2003, 03:16 AM

I ran across an article on slashdot (http://slashdot.org) relating to a material you might find interesting called 'fire paste'. The article lacked any details.
Anthony November 15th, 2003, 07:58 AM

This is interesting:
Passphrase FAQ, 5.2:
"Several windows users have found their passphrase in the swap file...Windows programs that shell to DOS seem to directly write the passphrase into the swap file"
eek!:eek:
On-the-fly encryption/decryption is interesting. The big question though is how slow is it going to be? It would be good to have E&W data, temporary internet files, cookies on a seperate drive with on-the-fly. I
think the performance hit would be too great to use it on your main drive.
Jacks Complete November 15th, 2003, 07:55 PM

Evening all.
I vaguely remember a thing I read regarding harddisk security, i think it was a JRCB thing.
Basic idea was, pack Thermite round your harddisk, and have a remote trigger that would frag your entire computer at the press of a button.
Obviously, this is very dumb.
However, thinking a bit, even dumb ideas can be salvaged. USB2.0 to IDE adapters now cost about 25, and a USB extension lead is 5. A makeshift firesafe in the garden, a load of Thermite, and two wires from
your encrypted disk, plus two more for the igniter. Ziplock it carefully.
Front door caves in, all you do is press the "Cook" button, then pull the wires hard. Now they know something was on the end of those wires, but can they find it? It is buried in the garden, and is utterly toasted by
hot iron, so even if they do, they can prove nothing. They can ask for your password, and lo! nothing to decrypt.
If you use a water and fire proof safe, there will be no heat or smoke, and your drive is waterproof. A 200Gb drive somewhere should be enough for even the biggest porn collection! :eek:

Thank You James for that info.
Some pretty darn interesting stuff.
Here's the article:
http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c=63
Cheap too!
Looks like my project plans have been rekindled.
I am trying to find some contact info for this guy so I can ask him a few questions.
Anthony, I have tried out DriveCrypt and the 'on the fly' encryption/decrption is impressively fast.
It seems to work too well! I am still working through it and reading the knowledge base, I'm pretty sure I read that the swap file gets erased or overwritten, I'm not sure. But this program seems pretty damn
nice! You have a 'vault' folder and you simply mount and unmount it. The encyryption/decryption is as fast as simply moving files around. Of course, I've experimented on a smaller drive, but I don't think it will
change too much with a larger drive. I was concerned that not all the files are being encyrpted but in the FAQ's they ensure that this 'vault' design is solid. As I said, I'm still playing around with it and learning.
I've tried a few other's and they are a pain, and much less secure.
So, check out their FAQ, I really think you guys will be interested in this program:
http://www.securstar.com/faq_drivecrypt.php
Jack's Complete,
Sparks some ideas. Are you saying something to this effect?...For example have an external firewire drive (powered by the firewire), buried outside somewhere, not too far, and read and write content to and fro
from your computer while it's buried? That's very interesting. I was thinking about them tracing the cable to the spot, but really, think about it, you can just have a mess load of cables behind your computer, like
most people do and just mix it within. In addition to the detonation set off by you, also, a trip device if it is dug up while you're not around, in case they happen to find it. I really wonder how they would take it if
they are digging and an erruption of thermite goes off! Would that be enough to take you in? By the way, I'm not to familar with thermite, I've set it off once before, but would it burn in an enclosed area that does
not have any oxygen? That doesn't make sense to me, considering one of the legs of the fire triangle is oxygen. I know the rust is the oxidizer but still.
At any rate, I am planning on taking some measurements of my longest firewire cable to see what type of current I can draw. And also looking to write a very basic program to send the voltage down the cable
upon the pressing of three certain buttons. Maybe there's some uses for a firewrire ignitor. I'll be experimenting. See what happens.
Now I'm all geared up!

I love this forum, how we can all share ideas and brainstorm!:D
xyz November 16th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Honestly, just use a seperate circuit for the ignitor. You could even use 240v mains power if you wanted to be sure (who cares if it blows fuses, your data has been destroyed).
Just have the switch for the ignitor mounted on the front of your computer, you could even have sperate switches in each room of the house in case you weren't at the computer when raided.

tingtao,
Yes, exactly right! I have a USB2.0 one, but I have seen firewire ones, too.
I was talking about putting the Thermite inside a waterproof fire safe, so that it wouldn't explode or anything, as little gas pressure would evolve (though I wouldn't like to say for sure!) and yes, Thermite has all
three legs to the triangle right there. It will burn in a vacuum, and once lit, you would need a lot of water to put it out by removing the heat (you might get a steam explosion, too...
As for the wires, you just yank them out after you pressed the button! The rather small hole(s) left in the ground would likely be missed, and the search would require a metal detector, or perhaps a garden fork.
Does anyone know about Thermite gas generation? I haven't ever tried to contain it, but it burns, rather than deflagrates or exploding, no matter how fine or well mixed the powder, AFAIK.
xyz,
I would have multiple ignitors, if you are storing info that is that risky to hold! No single point failure, then! Would an RCD trip before the ignitor went off? Might be a second good reason against mains... as well as
the risk of death! :eek:
Bert November 16th, 2003, 05:03 PM

Thermite theoreticaly doesn't generate gas. In real life, contaminants and particularly any water generate gas, and any air in the container will be expanding.

Jack's Complete,
Thanks for clarifying.
I'm really liking that setup...for the day to day stuff.
But I still want to deeply hide away some data so that I don't have to risk destroying it.
At least if unwelcomed company arrived at your residence, you had to destroy your data, and you were actually left alone after the fact, you would still have a backup! This is my point.
A large percentage of the files you do not need on a daily basis. So deeply hidden somewhere without daily access is just fine. Again, just making sure this backup will not get damaged by the elements.
Well at any rate, it's good we have different options.
I have a question for ya'll. I didn't want to start a new thread just for this. I also read the FAQ's and searched the forum and came up empty. I also didn't want to bother the moderator's in case this is a stupid
question and may have been asked many times before.
Seeing that I am a newbie, I have been keeping an eye on my post number. Well mysteriously at 6 posts, the number just froze. I've made more posts since then. I should be up to apprx. 12 or so. Do you think
this is strange? Anyone have any idea what might be going on?
Thanks.
0EZ0 November 16th, 2003, 11:16 PM

It is not strange at all. All posts made in The Water Cooler do not get added to your overall post count. In any case you should not be worrying about how much you post, but what you post. Quality is much more
preferred than quantity on this forum.

Oh I see. Thanks.
And yes, quality is more important than quantity. I try to keep that a golden rule with anything in my life.
Was just a simple curiosity quesiton.
Also, I wish I had more to contribute, but it is very difficult because almost everything I've practiced or thought of, has already been discussed, making it difficult to present anything new.
The more inventions and the more discussions already taken place, makes being an inventor with a new creation or idea, that much more rare.
I'm trying to pull something out of thin air but there's not that much thin air left.:D

Jack's Complete, an ignitor would have plenty of time to ignite before the RCD tripped, and because the ignitor is only making a circuit for a fraction of a second, there is usually not enough time for the RCD to trip
and it will only trip once in every 8 times or so (by this, I mean that the ignitor will always work, and the power won't even go off most of the time). The molten iron from the thermite might close the circuit for
longer and trip the RCD though, but once that has happened it doesn't matter.
Trust me, I used to use 240v mains power quite a lot back in the days when I was somewhat kewl.

So the question is, would the locking mech on the firesafe keep it shut against the gas pressure, considering it is nearly an inch thick, and has a waterproof seal... I suspect a loop of chain round it might work, so it
can blow open a fraction, and, of course, if you pull the wires out, it will have a small hole until it closes up.
As to the original post, the whole point of the fire safe is to stop fire. If you bury it outside, under two inches of soil or more, then unless you do it in an area prone to fire, you wouldn't have a problem. After all,
what's to burn? Even a fast moving forest fire through brush isn't going to get heat down more than a few inches. Put it under the patio, perhaps? You could use a standard ammo tin, as they are waterproof and
fairly rustproof. Cost of about 5 in surplus shops. They are great for storing paintballs and motors, and ammo!
If you want massive overkill, you could use a bomb tin. I have no idea what they are actually called, but I got one when I was given the last load of ammo tins I've got. It is a very heavy steel container, with a
multipoint lock on it. It looks about an inch thick, but must be hollow wall. It has a seal, and seems airtight. The guy said it was for storing explosive, but I don't actually know. Two big handles either side. If
anyone knows what it is, let me know!
It is so much easier when you don't need access to the data in real time!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > E&W Private network(Wireless)
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View Full Version : E&W Private network(Wireless)
I_am_the_Black_one November 15th, 2003, 08:22 AM

I was recently surfing the web and found a few nice topics. I then thought to my self that they have possible applications to the E&W forums. What about a private wireless
network for E&W members? From what I have read no one can be charged or harassed by what passes over these networks... Maybe someone with a bit more know how can
offer their opinions?
"Everyone who wants an Internet connection buys at least a 802.11 transceiver. Anyone who needs the highest speeds will likely still get a hard line from a traditional
ISP, of course. Then, instead of the ISP's being the primary providers of bandwidth and routing, we create a loose P2P wireless network all across the country. So
everybody is not only a user but provider of Internet access. To make the network private, all communication is encrypted. Sort of like a "wireless Freenet" in design.
For this to work, encryption must be built-in and as transparent as possible so that even newbie s will be forced to use it as def ault.......Now think of all the benefits..
Suddenly, we have Internet access anywhere for free. We have total privacy. We have free sharing of culture and ideas with absolutely no way for corporations to come in and
stop it whether legal or not."
Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/22/201231.shtml)
Seems an ok idea any comments?
Lil_Guppy November 15th, 2003, 08:41 AM

How is having a private wireless network supposed to magically provide users with free internet access? An ISP is still going to be involved somewhere, unless you create your
own, which would probably be more hastle than good.
"Everyone who wants an Internet connection buys at least a 802.11 transceiver." - AND be in range of either an ISP wireless access point OR in range of a fellow members
transceiver
"Then, instead of the ISP's being the primary providers of bandwidth and routing, we create a loose P2P wireless network all across the country." - E&W has members from
across the globe. To bring them into the link would require an ISP in some form to provide the link, which defeats the purpose of a wireless network.
"So everybody is not only a user but provider of Internet access." - No, a wireless network doesnt magically turn its users into mini ISP's, it provides a link between computers,
to access the internet, one would still need an ISP connection somewhere in the chain.
"To make the network private, all communication is encrypted. Sort of like a "wireless Freenet" in design. For this to work, encryption must be built-in and as
transparent as possible so that even newbie s will be forced to use it as def ault......." - It is done by default (in most cases), and handled by the wireless interface
"Suddenly, we have Internet access anywhere for free." - No we dont.
All that aside, think of the costs involved!!
Just my two cents...
Chade November 15th, 2003, 08:48 AM

All that being said, I love the idea of a pyro version of kazaa or overnet. All that would be needed would be someone to write such a program, or create a variant of a P2P
network that already exists. I'd imagine that you could even apply some restrictions on downloading or using it, so it doesn't get clogged up with crap. For example, you could
restrict access to the network to established forumites. Then there should be less problems with sharing all these rather excellent files we all have.
I lack the programming knowhow to create such a program myself, but surely someone out there could do it?

I was only quoting I was thinking that if members setup a network in their area... then had it connected via landline to others. It maybe slow, but its private and legal. If I
remember correctly you can get a range of 10km with a modified tv satellite receiver. Its only directional tho...
It also takes a bit of strain off the ftp
Shoot me down its just nice bit of info i picked up

Chade
Good idea, but kinda like re-inventing the wheel. Besides, that is what the forum FTP is for :p But in all honesty, it would be fun to write such a program. Plus you could add all
sorts of nice features :D
I_am_the_Black_one
It would be a cool concept, but you are still going to need landlines somewhere along the way, which defeats the purpose of the wireless idea. For secure communications in a
chat environment, someone could knock up a version of an IRC client that encrypts data on the fly. I have tinkered around with secure message clients, and have written a
program that uses a VERY heavily modified variation of the RC4 scheme. As for internet browsing, you are still going to have plain text (not encrypted) data coming and going
from your ISP access point, which would probably become a target for monitoring.
NOTE: If it seems like I'm rambling, its because its late :p
Macgyver November 15th, 2003, 09:00 AM

Have you considered what would happen to you if someone did something illegal from *your* internet connection because you shared it with others, most likely you'd end up
getting charged for the crime.
Most ISP:s have something in the agreement you sign when you order the service about who's responsible if someone commits a crime and/or abuses the internet connection.

No I got that covered.. I will post the text in the morning. The basic gist of it is that if you share it you cannot be held responsible

Good point Macgyver, I forgot to mention that one lol. Like I said, good concept, but it wont work without a lot of swearing and cursing. Better off sticking to the forum, and if
you desire extra security, email the person with a PGP encrypted email. Thats what I do :D As for my IRC idea, one could even write a script for mIRC, and a DLL or two for
the encryption/decryption routines...
*Goes off to tinker with mIRC*
I_am_the_Black_one
I'm pretty sure that the account holder is responsible any and all breaches of contract committed under that account...
Nevermore November 15th, 2003, 10:04 AM
what about a password protected chatroom on some irc server?
a WiFi link is something out of range, the maximur range with a WiFi transmitter is barely 2km, and i suppose the number of members are far less than one every two square
km in the us..
Not talking about other countries..
Is that possible to set up a private irc server?
if anyone can try i suggest one of those three:
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Network_and_Internet/Misc__Server_Tools/PINO_3_Server.html
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Network_and_Internet/Misc__Server_Tools/wIRCd_Advanced.html
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Network_and_Internet/Misc__Server_Tools/WircSrv.html
Rhadon November 15th, 2003, 10:44 AM

It wouldn't be necessary to write your own program for an E&W P2P system, one could just use the well-known filesharing system eMule (http://www.emule-project.net) as a
basis and advance from there. Since it's open source we would only need to do minor modifications which would be: The program can only connect to one non-public server
which is run by one of our members.
For increased security, using a proxy server should be mandatory. This decreases download speed, but that's less important than security. Chat is already fully implemented so
we wouldn't have to take care of that.
I_am_the_Black_one November 15th, 2003, 12:30 PM

I was hoping for something like this to spring up:D
Any programmers with spare time here?
peterthesmart November 15th, 2003, 01:17 PM

Perhaps we could get free internet from a wireless source such as a restaurant, hotel, or even airport. All we'd have to do is hide something in there that would encrypt the
infromation and relay it to someone's server nearby. Also I've haerd of devices that turn electrical lines into "antennas" for tv and radio. If such devices do work, we could
make a few modifications and have a whole network based off the power grid. Service would always be up unless there are blackouts.
Nevermore November 15th, 2003, 02:16 PM

that is technically impossible...unfortuntely we can't send information on the power grid since they will be stopped by the many transformers working over them..could work for
two houses connected at the same mid voltage line, but no more-
vulture November 15th, 2003, 04:43 PM

I've set up a small wireless network myself and if there's something about wireless networking that sucks, it's security! A WEP key can be intercepted if you monitor traffic long
enough. Only more or less waterproof way is association control, but then the admin has to know al MAC addresses, which would be a gift for the FBI to find.
Darkbloodpriest November 19th, 2003, 08:59 AM

Speaking of reinventing the wheel...why would we need our OWN
emule/edonkey/overnet network? (Yes..I know overnet is serverless ;) )
If you have something to share...name it something recognizable
by a E&W connoisseur, like PMJB volume 1. That way someone could find
it on the network. Why have our own network when "THEY" would
know that everyone on that network was part of roguesci?
Although regular edonkey isn't entirely safe either.
Cue your local news station...
"A very large world wide terrorist network was brought down today
when federal agents tracked down members of roguesci.org
that were using the popular client 'edonkey'. The sting was
set up after a agents son mistakenly downloaded a document about
nerve gas when looking for information for a science project..."
Private FTP anyone? Sounds good to me!
Btw...anyone know of good proxy programs? I like ghostsurf

myself but its a tad nitpicky when its comes to playing with others.
Sorry to get further off topic...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C ost: low explosive vs high
explosive
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View Full Version : Cost: low explosive vs high explosive
Trinitrotoluene Novem ber 15th, 2003, 07:49 PM

I a m wondering overall pound by poun d which is cheaper in term s of cost, low explosives are high explosive? som etim es it
m ay vary from location to location, sometim e s c h e m icals in this country and cheaper than other chem icals, and som times th e
other way around. Som etimes it may also very from explosive to explosive. Just overall in general what do you think is
cheaper?
knowledgehungry Novem ber 15th, 2003, 08:47 PM

High explosive. ANFO=dirt che ap.
Edit: was that directed at me Rhadon? If so I am not sure what you are im plying I'm sorry if I've upset you in some way:( .
+++++++++++
No, it was directed at Trinitrotoluene, your post is fine! Should've written "post" insted of "reply"...
Rhadon
Rhadon Novem ber 15th, 2003, 09:09 PM

No need to g o to the bother of reading through your post before s u b m itting the p ost, right :rolleye s:?
Blackhawk Novem ber 15th, 2003, 09:21 PM

No I 'think' h e was talking about the original post, if you read it carefully it is full of errors that if you take to be what he m e a n t
to say, m a k e n o s e n s e . C o r r e c t m e if I'm wrong but I couldn't see anything wrong with Knowledgehungry's post.
chemwarrior Novem ber 16th, 2003, 01:58 AM

+++++++++++++++++++++++
W e'll keep things like that private, will we? If you've got to say something like this email m e for god's sake! I'll deal with that
case during the day.
Rhadon
Efraim_barkbit Novem ber 16th, 2003, 07:06 AM

I believe my cost for AP is rou ghly 25U S$/kg with 30% H2O2, and with 19,5% it should cost som ewhere aro und 20$/kg i think.
I forgot the price on the 19,5%
for ANNM it is around 14$/kg
10% APAN ~9$/kg
all p rices is estimated, as I dont know the exact excan ge ratios

Okay, I'm short in tim e so I'll make it short:
Trinitrotoluene will be fine if he takes care to write his posts properly in the future. I won't ban him just because som e o n e t e l l s
m e to do so - in orde r to take r e v e n g e o n a p e r s o n a l e n e m y. If I wanted to ban him I would have done it without your order,
but I don't see why it should be necessary. You were told not to play the moderator in the past (http://www.roguesci.org/
theforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=43486#post43486), and it would be good for you to keep to Zaibatsu's words!
chemwarrior Novem ber 16th, 2003, 11:07 PM

I was not pla ying m oderator R hadon. Re-read what I sa id. I ASKED for him t o b e b a n n e d . I n e v e r t o l d a n y o n e t o .
Rhadon Novem ber 17th, 2003, 01:23 AM

I got the point of you r post and do not need to read it again. Whether we call it p laying th e m oderator or give it another name,
the m essage is: don't interfere in things that are none of your b usiness!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C ardboard Tubes
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green beret Novem ber 16th, 2003, 09:40 PM

Just thought I would let all Aussies know that you can get very good cardboard tubes from Coles, for free! They are from those
plastic bags in the veggie section, just wait until a roll runs out then help yourself. They are approx. 1 inch O D and very tough
with walls of roughly 5mm d i a m eter.
I a s s u m e t h e s e c o u l d b e o b t a ined from any grocer, but I just sa id coles because thats where I get m i n e . I h a v e u s e d m y
tubes for large AP salutes and som e large fountains also.
I a l s o o b t a i n e d 1 m e t r e o f 4 i n c h d i a m eter tubing with 10mm walls from bunnings, it was just sittin g there so It requesitioned it
for my use.
You just have to keep your eyes open.
Lil_Guppy Novem ber 16th, 2003, 09:51 PM

My father works in a factory, a nd they use an industrial version of glad wrap (cling wrap) for wrapping the pallets. Th e wrap
c o m e s o n t u b e s w i t h a 5 2 m m I D a n d a n O D o f 6 8 m m a nd are 550m m long. They are strong as hell, and g ood for m ortar
tubes/starm ines (thats all I have used them fo r) :D
As for the C oles tubes, thanks for the info, will have to keep my eye out next tim e :)
static_firefly Novem ber 17th, 2003, 01:32 AM

I used to have mates that worked at woolworths and they would collect the tubes from the cash register, i e nded up with
200tubes that were about 2inch long 1.5cm id and walls about 3-4m l thick. They they left. Iv yet to find a proper supplier of
tubes :(
xyz Novem ber 17th, 2003, 06:50 AM

Green Beret, My brother and I have be en helping ourselves to tubes from C o l e s a n d W oolworth's for ages. They are farly large
also pretty strong.
Anthony Novem ber 17th, 2003, 02:39 PM

Those plastic till roll tubes (I think they're PVC) are great for salutes, hot glue endplugs adhere ve ry well to them.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > jpeg encryption
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russian_chemist Novem ber 18th, 2003, 02:11 PM

May I have a url to the great topics on encryption and h iding jpe gs that was discussed between nbk, aliengosvig, arcangel and
a few other mem b e r s p l e a s e . T h i s w a s s o m e t i m e before the server jum p...
Thanks for your help
(a link to relative inform ation on hiding jpegs through e ncryption would g reatly su ffice)
cheers

Are you sure that the topic was about hiding JPGs and n ot about hiding d ata in JP Gs? If you want to actually hide JPGS why not
just encrypt them like any other data?
PyroNitrate Novem ber 18th, 2003, 05:19 PM

I believe you are talk ing about Stegan ography. This is hiding data in oth er files such as docum ents in videos, images, etc....
You can find a great artical on it below.
Here (http://www.cs.uct.ac.za/courses/CS400W /NIS/papers99/dsellars/stego.htm l)
Or you can directally download the file in (post script form at) (1.1 MB)
Here (http://www.cs.uct.ac.za/courses/CS400W / N I S / p a p e r s 9 9 / d s e l l a r s / s t e g o . p s . g z )
And ofcourse you can get tools to do it for you!
Here (http://www.cotse.com/tools/stega.htm )
russian_chemist Novem ber 19th, 2003, 05:32 AM

There is a site that I help m oderate, its a rather large site that has around 3 m illion hits a day. Th e idea is that when
s o m eone sends in a file there is a safety check that has to be done. So I said I would learn about this system. I rem e m b e r a
long tim e ago that there was a big topic on it here.
May I ask where nbk went?
blindreeper Novem ber 19th, 2003, 05:54 AM

NBK is working on his DVD and has decided to disconnect his phone line. Thats why he only checks up occasionally through a
libra ry com puter I believe. Check this thread (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /showthread.php?s=&thread id=3199)
Darkbloodpriest Novem ber 19th, 2003, 08:07 AM

W hat is up with people being able to skip to the good p arts in certain topics and m i s s i n g V E R Y O B V I O U S P O S T S . . . . l i k e h e r e
(http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /sho wthread.php?s=&threadid=3199). :rolleyes:
You will also find a post by nbk ripping o u t t h e a s s h o l e o f s t e g a n o g r a p h y

on page one, and a few posts on page 5 here (http://www.rogue sci.org/theforum /showthread.php?s=&am p;threadid =1491).
I can't believe I said nonsensical nonsense...*sigh*

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > W heel of Time #10 Crossroads
of Twilight
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megalomania Novem ber 19th, 2003, 03:18 PM

I h a ve just f inished R o b e r t J o rdan s l a t e s t installment into the W heel o f Tim e series and I would like to discus s t h e b o o k .
First of all I have to say I have completely forgotten what is going on and who all those people are. It has been nearly 2 years
since the last book, about 2 years before that one, and nearly a s long for each book in th e installm ent. I have been a follower
for 6 years now. There are just too many characters and subplots to follow without a major refresher.
I m ust say I was rather disappointed with the b ook. The plot line was not advanced one iota. There was also not clim atic sce n e
a t t h e e n d o f t h e b o o k like all the others. This entire book is just filler, fluff if you will. Most of the book is about the damned
Aes Sedai and their subtleties of appearance, gesture, voice, etc. At least they had a few chapters of Mat back in this volum e . I
was most distressed in the last book that; he was not m entioned at all, he is m y favorite character.
Nothing actually h a p p e n e d in this book. Faile is still a prisioner o f t h e S h a i d o , t h e Aes Sedai are still besieging the white
tower. R and is sitting doing nothing. Not even the Forsaken were up to m uch in this book. As I said most of it was a bout the
infig hting of the Aes Sedai.
R o b e r t J o r d a n h a s s t r a y e d f rom his u s u a l f o r m u l a a n d p r o d u c e d a book that is pure filler, no action. I g u e s s i t s h i s own

fault, with so m any characters and s o m a n y s u b p l o t s y o u c a n t help but sp end tim e d e v e l o p i n g t h e s t o r i e s . W i t h s o m any
stories to develop you just get to the point whe re nothing m uch can happen. This book actually includes 4 distinct stories
s e e m ingly unconnected, following the lives of R and, Mat, Egwene, and Perrin. Oh, m a k e t h a t 5 b e c a u s e I f o r g o t a b o u t
Elayne. T h e r e s probably e n o u g h m aterial there to write an e n t i r e b o o k o n e a c h o f t h o s e c h a r a c t e r s .
I d o n t m i n d t h e a c t i o n n o t p r o g r e s s i n g , b u t I d o m ind waitin g so long betwee n n o v e l s . I f t h e n e x t b o o k i s d u e o u t f a i r l y s o o n

I can accept the occasional filler book. I hope this is not som e p loy just to sell no vels. I am beginning to get worried that
Robert Jordan will die before he actually finishe s the story. W e a re at 10 volumes with no end in sight, but he is already
p u s h i n g 6 0 . W ith an average of 2 years between each novel he will be fighting the grim re aper to wrap up all his story lines.
streety Novem ber 19th, 2003, 03:40 PM

I've actually read none of his books and from the sound of your description I feel no urge to do so. On the other hand you
have been following these books for 6 years so perhaps they are worth reading.
Anyway, I think i'll wait for the series to finish b efore starting to avoid disappointment.
Sub-plots are great when they suddenly come together with often surprising results but if you are waiting several books, and
several years, for those sub-p lots to m erge then it could easily become confusing and sim ply fragm e n t e d . I ' m n o t s u r e o f a
way around this, but then I wouldn't exactly describe m yself as a writer.
Tuatara Novem ber 19th, 2003, 04:43 PM

I've only recently found this series, 6 months a go. I'm currently halfway through book 9. I'd so hoped it would all be wrapped
up in #10. I hate having to wait ages between books. As for content, maybe Jordan is getting so wrapped up in him self he's
falling into the sam e trap as Janny W urts (her latest book in 'Th e Alliance of Light' series is ridiculously wordy). I love long
stories though - 3 book minim um to keep m e happy (I read too fast).
Blackhawk Novem ber 20th, 2003, 02:49 AM

Everything was all right up to around book 5, then I forgot nam es and what was h a p p e n i n g , a n d b y t h e e n d o f b o o k 10 I just
didn 't care, nothing actually happens as Mega said, Rand bairly m o v e s , I a m b e g ining to think Jordan will die before he
finishes this series :/

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > R eliable im provised fuse -
Howto
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Macgyver Novem ber 19th, 2003, 06:57 PM

H e r e ' s m y i d e a o f h o w t o m a k e a reliable improvised fuse if the real thing is hard to get o r unavailable to you.
You need the followin g things to start with:
1. Black powder
2. Silk paper
3. Glue stick
4. Sewing thread or thin copper wire.
Cut the silk paper to about 5 cm width, and the length depends on how long fuse you wish to make.
M a k e a f o l d a p p r o x i m ately 1.5 cm from the edge along the silk paper, and then use the glue stick all over the surface of the
silk paper.
Fill the fold with a line of black powder all along the way of the fuse, and then close the fold over the black powder and run you
f i n g e r s a l o n g t h e e d g e to m ake sure the glue stick together.
R u n t h e g l u e stick over the silk paper again, and then start wrapping the fuse so that you get the rest of the silk paper
wrapped around the fold.
Now secure the fuse with sewing thread or thing copper wire wrapped alon g it's full length to m ake sure it stays together.
This usually works great for m e when I for one reason or anothe r doesn't have access to proper factory made fuse.
(Moderators: If you feel this post is se rious enough, feel free to m ove it to Pyrotechnics section).
Bert Novem ber 19th, 2003, 07:44 PM

Kind of a variant on chinese tissue paper fuse. Did you do a sea rch on "fuse"? Th ere's a couple of threads allready you could
perhaps have added your m ethod to-
Macgyver Novem ber 19th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Bert
Kind of a variant on chinese tissue paper fuse. Did you do a sea rch on "fuse"? Th ere's a couple of threads allready you could
perhaps have added your m ethod to-
Thats why I posted it in the water cooler.
I was unsure whether it qualified as a new thread in the pyro section or not...
grandyOse Novem ber 19th, 2003, 08:58 PM

I t o o k a 7 i n c h l o n g b l a d e o f D R Y g r a s s ( p h y l a r i s , a a m of) and soaked it in KNO 3 solution. when dried out it m a d e q u i t e a g o o d
fuse . burned past an obstruction, but did not try it in a tight constriction, as m ay be found in fireworks. where it crossed itself, it
ignited, so you could easily co m b i n e m ultiple blades. burned at a consistant rate, without hesitations, also.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Whats it to be sir?
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arm November 20th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Ok, we've had favourite movie so how about favourite drink (hint: im not talking about afternoon tea on the lawn here). Believe it or not you can tell a lot about a bloke from
what he puts back, (i havent got a fucking clue what though).
Personally im a bit of an 'Ye olde Ale' man my myself and as i type i have a bottle (or tw o) of 'Golden Glory' in my hand (which probably goes some way to explaining the
pointlessness of this thread). I'm also a bit partial to single malt whisky.
So gents, its pick your poison time. Some of you are probably under drinking age, but hey, that never stopped me!

hmm my favourite beers have to be corona extra or sol.
apart from that tequilla (+ worm) or double vodka and coke are w hat i drink.
personally i prefer weed to alcohol, w hich is a shame because weed is much more expensive than alcohol
mongo blongo November 20th, 2003, 06:18 PM

Me? Well I will drink anything if it means staying sober if I don't!

Good quality w ine. Especially Reisling, and Cabernet/Merlot. Also partial to a fine old taw ny port. Non-alcoholic : the Latte brew ed at my favourite cafe (Odeon, on Mt Eden Rd
for you Aucklanders out there)
irish November 20th, 2003, 08:14 PM

I drink mostly Bundy rum, I prefer the better brands but object to paying $80 for a bottle of distilled suger cane ;) . I also drink beer in every w ay it comes (prefer Australian
and Irish beers though).
knowledgehungry November 20th, 2003, 10:42 PM

I don't like hard liquor much, Apricot Brandy is good though. I'm much more of a beer man, Pabst Blue Ribbon;)
grandyOse November 21st, 2003, 12:46 AM

Used to like ales and stouts from the british isles, ice cold vodka, and columbian coffee brew ed in all possible ways. My stomach and psyche say, "no more" so it's mountain
dew all the way. I envy you younger guys in some ways, but let me warn ya; the slower you take it now , the longer you'll be able to enjoy it. And, yeah, some of you will be
old some day.
chokingvictim78 November 21st, 2003, 02:01 AM

I must say, I'm a beer man myself (plus, being underaged, its the easiest thing to get). As for hard liquor, good imported tequila does me fine. I once tried tequila and Dr.
Pepper, as opposed to a whisky/coke on ice, which w as suprisingly good (although, I was drunk at that point, so anything was good). I've always wanted to try some absynthe
(sp?) though...anyone ever had it?
Edit: I found a good article on the Modern Drunkard, if anyone is interested. Even lists a website to get good quality absinthe. Apparently, it is legal to own and consume it, but
illegal to brew /sell it. If only I had a credit card and some extra cash. $80 for a bottle of original recipe :mad:. Perhaps in the college days. I have to give up the sweet
inebriating nectar for a while anyways, got caught with an obcenely large bottle of imported tequila.
scarletmanuka November 21st, 2003, 02:18 AM

I thimk zeocrash might be in the w rong country. Around here some people pretty much give weed aw ay. But apart from that, Coronas are the w ay to go.
xyz November 21st, 2003, 03:27 AM

chokingvictim, I have heard of absynthe (sp?) but I would have no idea where you w ould get some, there was an article in the NewScientist magazine a few years ago where
they discussed it, and that is where I heard of it.
Anath November 21st, 2003, 03:29 AM

Hmm,
Victoria Bitter (VB) or Melbourne Bitter, usually with dinner., Vodka & Orange (usually cheap lemon russki's or stoli's) when going out. I think most wine drinkers are pretentious
wankers ;) ..
zeocrash November 21st, 2003, 04:28 AM

absynthe is great stuff, it's brewed in wormwood flasks/containers so it's mildly hallucinogenic. despite it's high alcohol content though it's increadibly mild on the throat. but this
may be because you burn some of the alcahol off. decent absynthe(~ 70% IIRC) comes from eastern europe. pussy absynthe (~40%) should be available anywhere
for the record absynthe is another of my favourite drinks, but it's a bit rare to drink regularly
metafractal November 21st, 2003, 05:17 AM

Aaah.. Absinthe. I was lucky enough to obtain a bottle of high quality absinthe, (form Eastern Europe, Prague to be specific.) That stuff is pure magic. The thujone
(hallucinagenic wormw ood alkaloid) had a profound and incredible effect on me, to the extent that I went and got my hands on some thujone so I could have it in its pure form.
Treat Absinthe with respect, but I highly reccomend it (just dont w aste your time on any of the cheap or homemade stuff.) Check out Erow id's Absinthe vault (http://
w w w.erow id.org/chemicals/absinthe/) for more info.
Anyway, thats about the only alcohol I would touch. I most certainly dont drink for 'fun' (shudder). If one day I find a desire to become drunk, being of the practical nature that
I am, I wouldn't bother w ith all these silly overpriced alcoholic drinks. Reagent grade ethanol gets the job done much better :D.
bobo November 21st, 2003, 07:41 AM

For what it's worth, I came across absinthe in a portuguese supermarket a year or 5 back. I think this stuff is illegal in the Netherlands because it is a drug (go figure:rolleyes: ).
Anyway, I don't like w asting money on overtaxed drinks and brew some mead and beer myself. I'd like to distill some moonshine too but the last time it tasted like dough. In
the bar it is belgian beer definitely.
VX November 21st, 2003, 08:25 AM

A the moment I prefer to drink alcopops, such as smirnoff ice, reef etc, alternating w ith shots of vodka/ absinth (72%)/ JD/ southern comfort/ tequila and towards the end of
the evening random coctails of any/ all the obove are often consumed!
I know a bar which is for students, run by students, so alcohol is sold VERY cheap (80p for most shots, 1 bottles), which is how I can afford to do drink so much. Ahhh, student
life ;)
knowledgehungry November 21st, 2003, 08:34 AM

AlcoPops:confused: What are you a w oman? What next? Wine coolers:rolleyes:. Grow some balls and take your poison like a man;).
VX November 21st, 2003, 08:43 AM

Ha ha, I was expecting some abuse for that to be honest. stella's good too!
And despite giving absinth to several w omen (when w orking on a bar), I don't know of any w ho would try it twice.:D
arm November 21st, 2003, 09:36 AM

Ahhh, good old stella or as its often otherwise known 'wife beater'. :D
I must say in terms of drinking habits, i dont usually get w asted very often, im usually drinking for the taste, for its cool refreshing effect (ie beer) or just to enjoy a pint or six
with the lads. Every now and then though a memorable slash-up is required.
Tuatara November 22nd, 2003, 03:58 AM

Want to try absinthe? Make your own.
Rodney Valdez's Home Brew page (http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/6670/index.htm)
I've made wine from peaches (damn fine one that!), plums, boysenberries, pears. Also made a Methode Champagnoir from pears - it w as rather good after 3years! Also got a
berry port on the way - 1 year down, 1 year to go and its already showing great promise. Home brew is very easy, and great fun. And cheap too.
Efraim_barkbit November 22nd, 2003, 05:36 AM

Half a liter moonshine is the way to go... and the liter coke bottle fits perfectly in my pocket, so I dont have to carry a backpack either:D (self imported Vodka can doo too)
~25$/liter of 40% alcohol in taxes is a bit heavy for me, and I have to bee 20 years to legaly buy it(wich I am not), and only in special stores, because the state has a
monopoly to sell it.
The only thing that can legally be bought outside those stores, is beer up to 3,5%, wich is sold in regular shops, to a tremendeous overprice, if you are eighteen.
Thats OK, if you are rich, and want to drink six liters of it to get anywhere near drunk...
When I drink beer, I usually drink danish, becaus they make it so much better than w e.
Whine is for pussies, if its not homemade of course... sometimes I can take a glass for dinner, but much rather a beer.
Those alcopops is very good too, downside is price (over 2,5$/bottle), and "pussy" written all over your forehead... I can just as well mix moonshine w ith an excess of any soft
drink.
Almost forgot, Ouzo, the greek national spirit, that is among the goodest I know.
arm November 22nd, 2003, 07:00 AM

I guess you have to be a little older to appreciate the finer spirits. And there are obviously some things in life you have to learn how to appreciate.
Wine is for pussy's, lol. So, say (for example), if im a Blackbelt in karate but I do enjoy a good bottle of 25yr old 'Chateau De Malle' then automatically I become a total pussy
assed biatch.
Personally I prefer Australian wines and others from the less than usual wine producing countries (Hungary, South America's). Its just a snob-nosed myth that the best w ines
come from France, i find french w ines harsh (the're probably attempting to 'retreat' back to the bottle :D). I also tend to prefer reds to whites (more body and flavour).
<end wine commentary>
Anthony November 22nd, 2003, 09:07 AM

Fosters or Kronenberg for me when out, or Miller Genuine Draft if they have it. Reefs are alright when they're on offer, you get two or three and and empty pint glass and throw
them in. Blue Curacao is also pretty good. I can no longer drink vodka after I got alcohol poisoning many years back, I've developed a gag reflex to the taste or smell.
I haven't been proper pissed for quite a while, mostly because I drive when I go out now and also because I don't w ant to be hung over for work the next day. I more enjoy
the flavours and the conversation now.
Plus, w hen you're in your mid-teens you can get totally hammered and not feel a thing then next day. Enjoy it while your metabolism is in over-drive and it lasts, it's not so fun
when you *know* you're going to suffer for it the next day.
knowledgehungry November 22nd, 2003, 10:05 AM

I have actually always found MGD to be somewhat aw ful, oh well to each his ow n. Wine is NOT for pussys, it is for people with money. Wine is only worth drinking if it's high
quality, not wine in a box.
Anthony November 22nd, 2003, 02:22 PM

I'm certainly no wine connoisseur, but even I have alw ays insisted that fine-anything does not come in a cardboard box...
On the contrary, I find MGD to be the only decent drink to come out of America (not that the stuff w e get is brew ed in the US). Budwiser I find to taste too "chemically" for my
taste, much like Stella.
I'm sure Arkangel will be along soon too support the cause that is Guiness :)
knowledgehungry November 22nd, 2003, 02:54 PM

All of the "big" american beers are horrendous, MGD, Coors, Budw eiser. But hey it doesnt matter what beer you drink if your English because all warm beer tastes like shite! ;)
Ollie Snowie November 22nd, 2003, 03:28 PM

I'm VERY underage so you'll laugh at this:-
I like to drink a teaspoon of any wine diluted 1:1 by volume with water and saturated with sugar with a meal. An Italian relative got quite upset about me doing this; it's not
"proper", but they ought to try it! Go on! Admit that you're not the w orld's most sensitive taste bud! - Coming from me w ho once speculated making "artificial" wine from 100%
ethanol+w ater+various esters. You're going to tell me that I could have used less concentrated ethanol, aren't you? :D
arm November 22nd, 2003, 04:08 PM

What the hell is all this nonsense about British beer being warm? I dont think ive ever had a warm pint from the pub yet (and ive had quite a few).
Personally im not really a larger man, i find largers all fizz and no taste. Thats why i prefer the Ales - plenty of hoppy goodness in there. Stouts are all good too, infact, the're
meals in themselves. Two pints of Guiness and you need to take a shit. :p
ronald November 22nd, 2003, 04:50 PM

For getting drunk cheap and easy : cheap vodka + something to eat/drink on it. Have tried weed several times and didnt like it, gets me paranoid. Ive never had the luxory of
drinking tequila or absint. Local beer(as ive heard Saku Rock and Originaal are available even in an avarage US supermarker) is good for thirst, but getting drunk w ith beer is
not a good idea. Makes me sleepy and my stomach starts to hurt :( Cheapass w ines or sweet liquors(55% vol) is good for the job too.
Jhonbus November 22nd, 2003, 08:48 PM

Ahh booze.
When I'm out I like to drink a nice dry cider such as Strongbow. Or sometimes I'll drink lager if I get sick of that. My favourite beer has to be Hoegaarden but it's kind of
expensive and not many places sell it. Whisky's my favourite spirit - scotch if I'm going to drink it with coke but Irish (bourbon) if it's neat. As for vodka, it can vary. Smirnoff
(what most people seem to drink) is disgusting and the smell of it makes me feel sick, but Absolut is delicious and tasty. Alcohol's a poor drug though. If you like the lack of
coordination, try ketamine. When you take this it feels like *someone else* is getting drunk and staggering around. Ever watch Being John Malkovich? :)
Waiter! I'll take a beer, and a roofie colada for my date.
Anthony November 23rd, 2003, 09:29 AM

Arm, I'm pretty sure it's because only largers run through a chiller? Whilst ales, stouts etc just come straight from the barrel in a cool cellar.
A guy at w ork claims that roofie's don't work, he spiked a drink, drank it, sat there and nothing happened all night :)
Jhonbus November 23rd, 2003, 09:36 AM

Your friend must be doing something wrong, because combining alcohol and benzos *will* floor you!
arm November 23rd, 2003, 10:40 AM

Nah Anthony, you'll find that the best beers are typically the Ales/stouts/bitters which tend to be brew ed by the smaller local breweries (which sadly seem to be quite rare now ).
Most of the largers are just pumped out by the gallon from huge factories.
Your'e right though, they do chill some largers and i dont think theres really a good reason to. A cool cellar is good enough. It has been proved that human taste buds w ork
better at higher temperatures and indeed, sw eet foods loose a lot of their sweetness when cooled.
Maybe its just me but I find all the premium largers to be quite 'thin' without really any unique flavour. My favourite beer 'Golden Glory' is actually scented with peach flow ers. It
seems kind of odd but its bloody lovely. Theres another beer (i cant remember w hich) w hich is flavoured with eldarflow er.
Its all a matter of personal taste really.
EDIT : Fucking typo's
Mumble November 24th, 2003, 01:44 AM

I personally believe that the beer is different in different locations. A beer in LA, is just not the same as if you lived in Milwaukee or somewhere else in the midw est. I've heard
about the major brew ers giving the "best" beer to the region they live. Kind of a hometown advantage type of thing. I don't know if I really believe this, but I suppose the beer
would be fresher the closer you lived. It's hard to test this with imported beer, as it all comes in at nearly the same time. Also not being of legal age is a bit of an inhibitor as
well.
I will take many things, but I still have to draw the limit. We have this drink called UV blue. Basically is 60 proof Rasberry Vodka. It's tolerable for a while, but I can no longer
smell the stuff without fear of vomiting. A few to many bad blurred memories.
Stormhelm November 24th, 2003, 09:34 AM

A favorite of mine is Jack Daniel's and Cola. Also very fond of White Russians (Kahlua+vodka+milk). Beer is alw ays good. Been making my own wine too, for a couple of years
now.. Have approx. 40 liters of various kinds in storage.
But my absolute favorite, is high quality grape spirit (96% , 192 proof) from Spain. Ultra pure stuff - no headaches :)
Anthony November 24th, 2003, 02:09 PM

A variation in taste between the same beer from different areas might be due to the water used to brew it. This is certainly true from country to country. Considering the size of
the US, many brands may well have several brew erys to make distribution easier.
I do agree that Guiness is more of a meal than a drink.
I personally prefer the refreshment of a cold lager, but then I've got plenty of years left to develop a more sophisticated palette :)

Anthony,
Are these singing potatoes nothing to do w ith Pocheen then?
I have to stand up for the cider drinkers, and say Strongbow (when it hasn't been sat in the pipes all day) is superb. I am also partial to Smirnoff Ice, which is about the only
vodka I can drink these days. I too feel rather ill if I drink any, after downing a litre of Blue at Uni... I was drunk for three days. Looking back, I can't believe I didn't die... Total
for that night w orked it out to being about 80 units!
Hell, it was so nasty, I had to drink four liters of Strongbow to work up to it!
Then there was the time I was so thirsty in the night that I drank a tin of peaches in syrup from the can... Not alcohol, but god... what an awful drink, and damned stupid too. I
used to love the things, but to this day, my stomach churns! :eek:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Creating a ftp community
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snooib November 21st, 2003, 01:16 PM

Ive decided to start this thread in the hopes that there are likeminded people who are willing to share their explosive related material and are willing to take some time and
host a ftp site even if it is as temporary as mine or as Slow ;).
as i know how time consuming it is to find this tye of material (web\kazzaa\mirc\libaries etc).
Most of this stuff probably is already on the forum ftp but i wouldnt know, no access like i guess many others.
This is a collection of freely Available material which i found on the net (mainly pdf's) and hope to expand on.this probably will not really be of interest for the rougesci veterans
but more for the newbie who is hungry for knowledge,
like myself who goes overboard and collects and reads all available material to gather further insight (even if not actually producing some of the more advanced compounds)
i dont have the credits for the material (people who have taken their time to scan etc) so i hope no one gets pissed,if so reply to the tread and ill have it removed.
i just hope more people decide to do this and make it easier to get info even if its a small collection like mine
just set up a ftp its easy, cause i know its hard to set it up by web,mail etc and often costs money or has limiting factors.
i'd like to give this a trial and will run one over this weekend if successfull hope to run more often in the future as i hope others would.
*recommend using some type of ftp program that has some type of resume capability my connection may time out
download a ftp server program and Start a FTP !!

* could place your ftp server details here ( if this thread is not closed,banned etc)
if you think this is a shitty idea say so.
FTP Specs
Ftp Duration: This weekend only +-3 days, hopefully weekendly in the furure.
Started:now
Speed:56kb
Limit:2 users
user: anonymous
pass: (rougeSci username)@ftp.com
Port:21
Ip: 196.7.29.71
IDTB November 21st, 2003, 02:00 PM

Dude, you should be bitch slapped. Though I'm sure you had good intentions, but if you searched or even looked around you'd know we have a rather large ftp up and going. I
personally don't have access to it, but by the specs of chemwarrior's ftp it's fast and quite expansive.

hey i know i though why not have something that EVERYone can access without having to apply or something
almost like a starting point, building on ones knowledge then ultimately being able to contribute and join the elite forum ftp
megalomania November 21st, 2003, 06:53 PM

I would ecourage as many people as possible, if they can, to operate their own FTP site. We only restrict them to prevent abject leeching and bandwidth abuse of the general
public at large. If you want to build a FTP please do so. The more we have the more information we can spread out there. Just keep in mind how many thousands of hits we
get here each day, mostly from looky loos who just check in, and would love to access an FTP. Perhaps some people would feel more comfortable uploading to an unrestricted
FTP, or maybe you will just get swamped with leechers. The point is the more FTP's there are the more we can spread the load.
We must all prepare for that day when laws are passed that forces The Forum to shut down, and hurles our beloved books onto the burn pile. On that day I hope we have
many FTP sites running to distribute the dozens, nay hundreds, of books we have collected over the years. These books will multiply by the thousands and tens of thousands
as they are copied, recopied, loaned, printed, disseminated, and distributed for decades to come. They can shut us down, but they would have to shut the entire net down to
stop us all, and they will never be able to pry the books we have already obtained from our grasp!
Ollie Snowie November 21st, 2003, 07:38 PM

Well, work starts now; I'm setting up a server at this very moment.
I'm sure someone with a bit of programming knowledge could write a sort of P2P program to search our network of FTPs.
If we have lots of FTPs, the administration of user accounts becomes a problem, but having lots of FTPs spreads the load so anonymous downloads could be allowed. More to
the point would be whether to allow anonymous uploading, because of all the rubbish some people like to upload. I'm sure that people with a decent antivirus program could
check through the uploaded files and ban the IPs of people who upload viruses. People who uploaded rubbish would just be given a warning in case it was accidental corruption
of a useful file.
A database could be kept on a central http server for each loaction on the globe (I'm willing to do it for England ;).) and copied to other servers in case the local server is
down. Passwords could be put on these http servers, making user account administration much easier, and meaning that info. about a file could be included so people know
more about what they're downloading.
EDIT - [Mega, you almost made me sob about all those books being burned :(! Thinking about it, when this eventually happens, it might not be the end; the forum could be
continued in the same way as the FTP network is planned to. (ie. no central server, so impossible for government to shut it down.)]
EDIT2 - [Another idea - I'm just wondering if, when you have multiple virtual machines each running servers and one of them gets is bombarded with pings, do they all
collapse? I shouldn't think so. A firewall would be able to stop unauthorised pinging (?).]

Im Glad some people are showing some type of interest in the idea
i was reading Ollie Snowie post and got me thinking, ive been using mirc for a while just talking getting files , and came accross a warez room called #Warez-Talk (dalnet)
they have quite a clever system going where users post sites with all the credentials which get logged and stored, which users can then recieve the file which has got a list of
the sites submitted, they even have a GUI system which allows one to automatically recieve the file , do searches, ratings etc.
the great thing about this is it is all automated by a bot
if something simillar can be done this would be perfect
so maybe someone with some mirc skills (bots, scripts) can possibly check this out and do some further investigating
peterthesmart November 21st, 2003, 10:27 PM

It's very simple to make a channel on Mirc for the use of sharing files. I had been thinking about doing this but one problem would be risking exposure. Some servers allow you
to mask your IP, but when recieving a file it can easily be found by using dos. Also we would not have very tight control over who accesses the servers. Any government
official could simply join the channel and download from someone. If we made the channels invite only, someone or several people would have to identify and invite each user
that wants to come into the channel. If anyone still likes this idea, I could help get us started. To serve files, just download Invision or Excursion, some of the most popular file
sharing programs used on MIRC.
Edit: I'm not a lawyer but whenever entering a channel you usually see something like this: If you are affiliated with any government,police. ANTI-Piracy
Group,RIAA,MPAA,FBI,movie production company/distribution company or related groups you are violating code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by Bill Clinton in
1995,Therefore you CANNOT threaten our ISP(s),person(s) or company(s) storing these file(s) and cannot prosecute anyone. And you ::must LEAVE this Channel NOW!!
If that is true, then we should be able to safely run a channel on IRC without the fear of anyone trying to shut us down.
thrall November 22nd, 2003, 10:23 AM

As for the forum going down because of government oppression I think IT can not happen so easily.Cause there are a lot of people outside US in the forum and may be
someone from a rogue country cand host it.Then Uncle sam won't be doing anything ;) .
As I'm noticing ,when I joined the number of members was around 3800. In just couple of months it's around 5000.Great growth rate! and I can understand that a lot of people
are newbie not only in the Forum but also in pyro feild.
It took me months to get started , though I had chemistry till high school.What about the people that don't know chemistry much? I feel in the wake of this "newbie rush" there
should be something for newbies to get started with and elevate them to the level where they at the least understand all the threads in the Forum.Getting an FTP account is
way too long.And in this rush it will certainly not possible to give an FTP account in short time for sheer reason of resources ,even one forget any other complication.
What I suggest is some kind of collection of pdf's or books for the beginers to get started with.May be then we won't have a lot of stupid newbie questions.Some FTP can do it
but what about free hosting sites or some other site,to keep the collection of pdf's for the beginners.
(Well I got some books from a link in a thread in issues and opinion and it was good:) )
Rhadon November 22nd, 2003, 10:40 AM

Cause there are a lot of people outside US in the forum and may be someone from a rogue country cand host it.Then Uncle sam won't be doing anything ;). Hosting The
Forum in a country with other laws doesn't guarantee its accessability in the US / Europe. They could just use an internet filter like some countries already do today (Mexico
and China I think). I'm not sure if this can be circumvented by using proxy servers which are located outside the US / Europe.
PHAID November 22nd, 2003, 03:50 PM

Here is a file that may be of interest to load on your FTP site.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/t0302060.pdf
snooib November 22nd, 2003, 06:50 PM

sorry to those who were connected but my connection shat out
the new ip is 196.30.35.74 so those who were getting files canfinish up
the temporary running is almost over and will have to disconnect in a few hours time
good to see the response.
just over the short time it has been running its transfered just over 400Mb pretty good for a slow 56 kb connection, now imagine if say even 10 users did the same
my holiday starts soon and will be looking into some type of ftp cataloging program possibly mirc based so will be doing a little bit of messing around this holiday.
oh and that file is there thanks.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C ar bomb Crater sizes (Bali
nuke?)
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View Full Version : Car bomb Crater sizes (Bali nuke?)
y23 Novem ber 21st, 2003 , 09:10 PM

R e : C a r b o m b Crater sizes (Bali nuke?)
A s s u m i n g e v e r y o n e h as read Joe Vialls interesting articles by now.
Check http://www.joevialls.co.uk/ and search fo r BALI
H e p r o f e s s e s t o k n o w a b o u t S A D M a n d explosives RDX etc.

I found his claim s check out, ... strang e.
Most of the recent bom bs left sizable craters

... they were huge bom bs.
Q u e s t i o n : D o 3 0 0 k g o f h i g h - e xplosives *IN A CAR* leave such craters?
Pictures: http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?c=news_photos&p=crater
W ant to win The Car Bom b S c i e n c e C h a l l e n g e ?

http://www.erichufschm id.net/
(please ignore the other crap there)
Greetings fro m Germ any, were 707 AW ACS are flying

low over m y head as I write. U SA has great people!!
..and some of the best are in the military!! |-)
green beret Novem ber 21st, 2003 , 10:05 PM

Firstly I am very sceptcal as to the quality of the "joevia lls" page. I havent fully exam ined it but on the section "Baghdad Nuke
m arks Bali anniversary" he refers to th e b a l i b o m b a s a " P o t a s s i u m c h l o r i d e d e t e r g e n t b o m b " n e e d I s a y a n y m ore?
And as for th ose pictures on yahoo, take a look at the second one down, firstly, for a car bom b to create a crater of such
depth, it (the crater) would have to be wider because of the am o u n t o f e x p l o s i v e r e q u i r e d , s e c o n d l y , t h e a m o u n t o f e x p l o s i v e
required to m ake such a crate r would be alot, so why is there very little colateral damage to things such as the brick wall
b e h i n d t h e m en? And the scattering of debris just dosent look right to me, too much at the rim of the crate r but none really
elsewhere, at least not as much as one would expect from such a blast. Also, maybe its just me, b ut does the crater seem a
little t o o e l o n g a t e d ?
Anyhow thats just my view, let know what you all think.
y23 Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 12:02 AM

P l e a se clarify.
P l e a se re-read your post out loud.
Your post m a k e s n o s e n s e t o m e .
Vialls Potassium was irony. Howard being the Prim e Minister of Australia,
a n d a s s u c h n o t i n t e r e s t e d i n p e o p l e k nowing there was a nuke.
Blackhawk Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 12:42 AM

Green Beret's post made perfect sense to me, while yours however didn't, please re-red YO U R p o s t . I a m a l s o n o t s u r e o f t h e
quality of those pictures, an explosive device above the surface would make a wide shallow crater, those ones are too deep,
unle ss some vehicle parts were shot down into the ground and the deep hole was m ade when the were dug up for exam i n a t i o n
o f s o m ething.
Polverone Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 01:00 AM

He seems to rely on others to inform him a b o u t explosives, and probably ignores advice that conflicts with his theories.
Consider:
No doubt assisted by Sodium Pentathol and probably while hook e d u p t h e m ains electricity supply, suspect Amrozi originally
c o n f e s s e d to supplying p o t a s s i u m chlorate, alum inum p o w d e r a n d f u z e wire, which could n o t e x p l o d e n o m atter how you
m ixed it together. Re m e m ber here that potassium chlorate crystals are not explo sive, and need sophisticated treatm e n t a n d
a u g m entatio n to even contrib ute to a low-explosive bla s t. Translated to Kuta B e a c h , A m rozi s b o m b w o u l d h a v e b e e n n o m o r e
d a n g e r o u s t h a n a c h i l d s f irework.
A couple hun dred kilogram s o f a l u m inum p o w d e r a n d K C l O 3 s o u n d s l i k e a c o u p l e hundred kilogram s of flash to me , which a s
any forumite knows is hardly equivalent to "a child's firework."
The only way any explosive can cause a crater is if it is first drop ped from an aircraft and penetrates sub-surface before
exploding, or if it is p hysically positioned sub-surface in advance. The thousand-pound O m a g h b o m b detonated in Northern
Ireland by th e IRA during 1998 did not cause a crater, nor has a ny nuclear weapo n ever detonated a b o v e - g r o u n d r e g a r d l e s s o f
TNT equivale nce yield.
T h i s n e e d s n o c o m m ent.
Australian Fe deral Police Director of Co unter Terrorism , Tim Morris, was a little m ore inventive. Tim claimed the bom b was
com p o s e d o f c h l o r a t e , d e t o n a t o r c o r d [cordex] a n d T N T . Ge tting better here, Tim , getting better! The TNT would certainly
trigger the cordex, or the cordex trigger the TNT, but ne ither would do an ything to the inert potassium chlorate detergent
crystals, which m ust first be blended very carefully with an exact quantity of paraffin wax [fuel] before they can augment
anything. Translated to Kuta Beach, Tim s bo m b would have k illed a few people from blast alone, while sim ultaneously
blea ching the shirts o f hundreds of survivors.
He obviously hasn't a clue about chlorates. Maybe he confuses chlorates with hypochlorites.
There are other errors on his pages, but I think this selection is significant. If there's a real conspiracy buried here somewhe re,
Joe Vialls has buried it one layer deeper. He doesn't understand sim p l e e x p l o s i v e s c h e m istry, so why should I trust him to g et
it right when it comes to exotic miniature nuclear weapons?
thermobaric Novem ber 4th, 2006, 06:29 PM

I don't think this was a m ini nuke,if u look closer at the case you'd find that the device wa s a s o p h isticated 2000-lb
therm obaric device.The centra l i z e d d a m a g e s e e m s consistent with a therm obaric weapon.At his trial,Ali Im ron showed a m o d e l
of the device .http://www.sm h.com .au/articles/2003/02/11/1044927599789.htm l
I believe the same type of facts apply to the OKC bom bing.Tim othy McVeigh's sketch to h is lawyer shows a 6500-lb
therm obaric bom b,no t the 1 ton weapon com monly reported.http://www.worldnetd aily.com/im a g e s / m c v e i g h s k e t c h 1 . j p g
nbk2000 Novem ber 5th, 2006, 12:06 AM

Neither ANNM (OKC) nor Chlorate-base d f l a s h p o w d e r ( B a l i ) d o e s a t h e r m o b a r i c m a k e .
I've merged your double posts into one, as we don't go for artifically pum p i n g p o s t c o u n t s b y m a k i n g s e p e r a t e p o s t s o f s i n g le
URLs. :rolleyes:
And the lette r u is not a substitute for the word you.
Sausagemit Novem ber 5th, 2006, 12:12 AM

I found this really funny....
A tiny nuclear bomb also has the powe r to do this. A nuclear bomb would have to be underground in order to reduce the
intensity of the blast so that it was not too obvious that it was nuclear. Since it would be underground, it would throw a lot of
dirt into the air, leaving behind a big crater in the street....
M a n y o f t h e s e " e n l i g h t e n e d " p e o p l e a r e s t i l l p a ying for the New York Times, Popu lar Mechanics, Scientific Am erican, and other
publications that lie to them .
http://www.erichufschm id.net/Conspiracies5.htm
As e nvisioned by form er Los Alam o s w e a p o n s d e s i g n e r S t e p h e n Y o u n g e r , t h e n e x t n u c l e a r w e a p o n will rely on a deep-

penetrating delivery system to place a small nuclear charge at the heart of a buried target. Precision delivery m a k e s i t p o s s i b l e
t o u s e a m inimum amount of explosive power. Building low-yield nuclear weapons, however, poses physical as well as legal
p r o b l e m s.
"http://www.popularm echanics.com/technology/military_law/1281436.htm l ? p a g e = 2 "
I would say more like implanting the ideas into there heads!! :D
I would seriously think that a buried small yield nuclear charge would do a lot more dam age to the surrounding areas substrate
and foundations of the buildings rather than strip the concrete off of the rebar like the Bali bombing. Those weapon s a r e
designed to do minim al dam age on th e surface but maximum damage to any structure underneath the ground.
Two trains crashed into each other in North Korea in April 2004. Supposedly something on the train s e x p l o d e d , a n d s u p p o s e d l y
this explosion was so powerful that it dug a crater 72 feet deep.
http://www.erichufschm id.net/Conspiracies5.htm
Very explainable, when two trains collide, there is so m uch force that usually one of the trains ends up goin g u n d e r n e a t h t h e
other and un der the ground. I've seen it a lot. All it takes is for one to ju mp the tracks and either break through the rails or
come completely off of the rails.
In fact, a while ago out side of Alliance Nebraska in a single train derailm ent a locomotive got buried 190 feet under the
ground by an U NLO ADED coal train. :eek:
All it would take is one of those trains to be carrying a propane car and for the propane ca r to burst underground an d y o u h a v e
your 72 foot deep cra ter.
I will adm it that som e of there therories are plausable and m ay even be true but a lot of them are just way to stupid to be
correct.
thermobaric Novem ber 5th, 2006, 12:41 AM

Pictures of the Ryongchon disaster.80 tons of explosive m aterials would definitely do this kind of damage.http://
www.globalse curity.org/military/world/dprk/ryongchon-im agery.htm
And the specifics of the Bali bom b.http ://www.terrorism central.com /Library/terroristgroups/Jem a a h I s l a m i y a h / J I T e r r o r /
BaliPreps.html
Raffikki Novem ber 15th, 2006, 05:19 AM

That m u s t h a v e b e e n a shit load full of explosives!But still a Sm all A-bomb would h a v e d o n e m uch m o r e d a m a g e .
cyclosarin January 1st, 2007, 08:13 AM

The logic behind the vialls site suggests that if any explosive de vice crea tes a white mushroom cloud it has to be a nuke.
zeocrash January 11th , 2 0 0 7 , 1 0 : 1 7 P M

After reading an article such as this does anyone else get the desire to track down the author and beat him into a com a for his
authoratative tone, despite his total lack or research or understanding for any of the subject matte r.
Bein g unable to do that i'll the next best thing and debunk, m ock and generally dispair at som e of the ponts raised in the
article (http://www.via lls.com/nuke/bali_micro_nuke.htm ). This is m ainly as some kind of outlet for m y frustration at the man's
stup idity.
Ok apart from the points already raised. I have a few of m y own to add.
Surely if it was a small nuke then, there would be radiation produced, especially if, as the articles claim , it was burried under
ground (the nuke would kick up a shed load of debris, earth, concrete and other crap that would have becom e radio active after
bein g in the blast). Now if you have all this radiation and fallout about, surely someone is going to get radiation poisoning.
It is this gam m a radiation tha t a standard Geiger counter detects, warnin g u s e r s t h a t t h e y a r e e n t e r i n g a h a z a r d o u s z o n e . T h e

stan dard Geiger counter can a lso detect significant quantities of beta, though this is m ore difficult.
The new Dim o n a m icro nuke was the very first critical weapon t h a t c o u l d b e u s e d in stea lth m o d e . G o n e was the dirty
Uranium 238 reflector, and up went the purity of the sm aller Plutonium 2 3 9 c o r e . Y o u s e e , P l u t o n i u m e m its only alp h a
radiation, wh ich for all practical purpos es is invisible t o a s tandard Geiger counter. If you d o n o t believe m e t h e n a s k t h e
Am erican Environmen tal Protection Agency, whose staff will confirm this.
No, no no, ju st No. I hate to state the obvious, but this man is about as wrong as you can get. Alpha is certainly not
undetectable as the man suggests. As for the geiger counter statem ent, it's also wrong. Geiger counters detect alpha, beta
AND gamm a (though not so well).
R e m ember that this m icro nuke was a tiny weapon in te rm s of critical ma ss, with its lim ited number of particles distributed over
a ve ry wide area. You will have to be within five feet to detect a single pa rticle, an d m ost may have already washed away.
I... have no words, i really am s p e a c h l e s s .
b e c a u s e P l u t o n i u m i s t h e m ost toxic substance known to man

nope
No more, i'm not even a quarter of the way through the article, but i can't take any m ore. I'm starting to suspect that the
owner of the website m ight secretly be a governm ent agent designed to discredit conspiracy theorists :P.
Part of m e wants to m a k e t h i s m an suffer in unim aginable ways. Part of m e wants to sit him down and explain every single
error in his theory in an attem pt to educate him .
Finally, just incase the genius of Joe vialls wasn't alread y obvious. i'll direct you all to his latest bre akthrough in the field of
oncology and respiratory diseases.
s m o king helps protect against lung cancer (http://www.vialls.com / t r a n s p o s i t i o n s / s m o k i n g . h t m l )

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 1st go at AP, gone well
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jman Novem ber 21st, 2003 , 10:31 PM

W ell hopefully everything has gone well. The m ixture has turned m ilky. I'm guessing its the crystals suspended in the water.
I've yet to check on it again...last checked 2 hours ago. Its in th e freezer at work where I'll check it tom orrow m orning. It is
s u p p o s e d t o b e m ilky white, right?? Just double-checkin g.
- Jared
Anath Novem ber 21st, 2003 , 11:01 PM

I'm sure "the freezer at work" is not an appropriate place to store sensitive High Explosives. If you h a v e a j o b y o u s h o u l d b e
able t o a f f o r d a c h e a p , s e c o n d - h a n d b a r f r i d g e t o k e e p i n t h e s h e d / g a r a g e / b u n k e r : )
jman Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 02:35 AM

hah I know that sounds stupid. But m y dad owns the place. I work for him. We own a pool store as well as a hobby
store...good for the h o m e c h e mist and pyro :D
- Jared
Darkbloodpriest Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 06:49 AM

W ell if thats not the best fam ily onwed b u s i n e s s h o o k u p I've heard yet...
Although....m ysteriou s o p e n e d l i q u i d s a r e a g a i n s t O SHA
stan dards....naughty naughty :D
....or atleast thats the lie m y job feeds m e....
jman Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 11:15 AM

I imagine that's the case. The fire m arshall has written us up for a few wall sockets that didn't have covers on them in the back
room...its be en that way for like 3 or 4 years and now he says som ething because of the chemicals in that room now. I own a
fish store too, as in saltwater fish...I do a little of everything I guess you could say.
- Jared

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Mega's Story
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Darkbloodpriest Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 07:55 AM

W hat ever happened with the story Mega was writing?
Also, numerous searches for the origin al topic have proved fruitless.
Possibly still a work in progress?
I'm sure everyone is DYING to find out how the kids enjoyed the "Ice cream " :D
xyz Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 1 3 P M
Mm m m m m m m m... crack icecream...
I a m looking forward to reading the rest of the story.
firebreether Novem ber 24th, 2003, 10:47 AM

I also thought that th e story was the shit. I've always wanted to pimp it out in a suit and then have a shitload of weapons
underneath :D . I have a copy of it saved on m y compu ter if you really want it and cannot find elsewhere.
Darkbloodpriest D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 03:31 AM

I'm going to take your silence m e g a l o m ania to m ean the story is a work in progress...
And I'm sure everyon e is still very interested to hear either the end of the story, or possib ly a few m ore chapters of the life of
who I would consider the forum m ascot:D
H i s n a m e was The Demon correct? I can see dream s of merchandisng now...walking around with a picture o f THE DEMON on the
back of my t-shirt. Anyone else like this idea?
streety D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 09:48 AM

firebreather, I would be interested in reading this story if you could send a copy m y way.:)

Thanks firebreether, it certainly is a great read. I was surprised he didn't drive back past cardboard city and toss a petrol bom b
in their direction. Still a great read and as there are still plenty o f hours left for him t o c a u s e m a y h e m lets hope there are
s o m e m ore chapters in the pipeline.:)
thrall D e c e m ber 11th, 2003, 09:16 PM

Streety! since you got story by m ail,why not you propagate it by mailing it to me:).Thanks in advance so new post is not
needed.
streety D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 12:49 PM

I'm afraid I no longer have a copy of the story available to me. Firebreether sent me a lin k to the story but I have deleted that
e - m a i l a n d a lthough I have downloaded the story I'm using a different com puter over the Christm as period and forgot to ba ck
up all m y files. Perhaps firebreether would be willing to help again otherwise I will only be able to help in the new ye ar.
Sorry. :(
I tried to mail you but it came up with a m essage saying you didn't want to be contacted through the board
xALmoN May 30th, 2004, 03:26 AM

Uh, this might be a little late, but can anyone send m e the story too? I'm pretty interested in reading this story too.
Thanks in advance.
DimmuJesus May 30th, 2004, 03:58 AM

Y e a h , m y interest has been grabbed. Maybe someone with a little webspace can put the story up and post a link. Or maybe
Mega could do so.
I hope this is alright with you, Mega, that this story is being passed around again.
streety May 30th, 2004, 08:51 AM

I've e-m ailed mega and if it is ok with him i'll host the story and post a link to it here.
megalomania May 31st, 20 04, 12:4 1 AM

Eh, go ahead :) I don't m ind..................
streety May 31st, 20 04, 06:3 3 PM

The First Day (http://www.jm street.info/The_First_Day.pdf)
Ok, here it is. At the m oment it's just a pdf but if I get chance I may break it down into pages and create a html file for it.
Enjoyall, I know I did. :)

Spudkilla May 31st, 20 04, 09:0 0 PM

Mega, would you m ind if I con verted your story into a m ovie script for www.film tycoon.com ? I think it has lots of pro m i s e , a n d
would do well in their virtual box office.
xALmoN June 2nd, 2004, 09:56 PM

r i g h t . m e g a l o m ania.. you're really descriptive. m a d e a g o o d r e a d i n t h e m orning.
megalomania June 2nd, 2004, 10:53 PM

A movie script eh? So u n d s f i n e t o m e : )

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > U sing AP and AN
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nuclearattack Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 08:40 AM

HI to everyone!
This is my first post, i read the forum rules so i have written this post in the water cooler. I hope this is the rigth place to write
this post and i hope i will not be banned.
However i m a d e s o m e AP and i tried first to burn it over a flame, it burns very fast but i'm not sure if it is a real high explosive.
In the Aleng guide is written then the AP as a VoD of 5500 m / s s o t h e A P s e e m s to be a HE. W hy in the forum the AP posts
are written in the other explosives section and not in the HE section?
Today i'm tryng to m a k e s o m e A P w i t h am monium nitrate instead of the H2O2, i'm not sure about the result but i'm curious.
I'm a l s o t r y n g t o f i n d s o m e h e x a m i n a b u t s e e m s t o b e i m possible in m y country (italia), where exam ina is comm o n l y u s e d ?

W here do you find it?
hi and good detonations to everyone!
p.s. sorry for m y bad english!
Rhadon Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 09:16 AM

This is my first post, i read the forum rules so i have written this post in the water cooler. But your forgot to search at first!
I'm a l s o t r y n g t o f i n d s o m e h e x a m i n a b u t s e e m s t o b e i m possible in m y country (italia),

Doing a search would have told you that: http://www.campershop.it/product207.html
sorry for m y b a d e n g l i s h ! Y o u s h o u l d m a k e u s e o f a t r a n s l a t i o n p r o g r a m a n d a s p e l l c h e c k e r . T h a t w o u l d a l s o h a v e h e l p e d y o u
in your search for hexamine (it's spelled that way).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C o m m iserations to all the
Aussies out there!
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Arkangel Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 11:52 AM

:D W ell, the R ugby W orld Cup is now all over, and England:D Ha ve :D W o n
W hat a fantastic gam e. I m ean in the end we deserved to win, but Australia did a fantastic job. Equalising in the last minute of
full tim e was an awful thing for the poms, but in the end we cam e through - I can tell you, every Pub in the country is full of
s i n g i n g h a p p y people .
Mind you, m y girlfriend has drunk herself into a sem i-coma, so I've had to bring her back, poor so ul!!!!!
Engerlaaaaaaaand:D
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
Flake2m Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 4 5 P M
I a m going to pull out this, but only because I am being a sore loser. Dont take it personally.
Official Forum Flam e

===================================
Dear:
[ ] Clueless Newbie
[ ] Loser
[ ] S p a m m er
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Dumbass
[ ] Dickhead
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Nerd
[ ] l337 K3w|
[x] Other: illegal imm igrant
You Are Being Flam e d B e c a u s e

[x] You are rubbing it it about "the other team " winning
[x] You posted a thread that is annoying as all hell just to look at.
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d s o m ething that m a k e s a b s o l u t e ly no sense at all.
[ ] You whine like a b itch.
[ ] Y o u b u m ped a thread from t h e l a s t p a g e .
[ ] You started an off-topic thread.
[ ] You are b eing a parrot
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in.
[ ] You posted false information (or lack thereof).
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d s o m ething totally uninteresting.
[ ] You are p ost whoring
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d a m essage all written in C APS (oR aLtErNaTe CaP s).
[ ] You are raping the English language
[x] I don't like your tone of voice.
[ ] You annoyed the m [g]ods
[ ] You forge t to do a search
To Repent, You Must:

[ ] Spend a night with "Bubba" in a 3x3 cell
[ ] Search the forum for the correct answer
[ ] Actually post som ething relevant
[ ] Stick a firecracker up your ass
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this foru m
[ ] Go a play on the freeway
[ ] Run with scissors
[ ] Listen to NSYNC and Nikki W ebster for 2 hours
[x] Other: walk into a pub yelling "THE POMS SU CK"
In C losing, I'd like to Say:

[ ] Get a life
[ ] Go to hell
[ ] Your mother m ust've dropped you as a child
[ ] You will never post in this forum a g a i n
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] You m ust have the mental capacity of an avocardo
[ ] Your balls should be rem oved for what you posted
[ ] Take your crap som ewhere else
[ ] Do us all a favour and jump into so me industrial equipm ent
[ ] Go and crawl back under the rock you cam e f r o m
[x] I never really liked rugby anyway
[ ] All of the above
=====================================
I h a v e e n o u g h f r i e n d s a n d f a m ily that are pom s without forum ites rubbing it in. T h e p o m s p l a y e d a g o o d g a m e a n d h e l p e d

m ake it really exciting. Because the "o ther team " won I have now a lesser chance of getting with som e f i n e y o u n g l a d i e s .
D a m n.
Anath Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 8 : 3 5 P M
W ell, It was a biyt dissapointing to see the Pom s win, but I suppose it's better than seeing the French or th e Kiwis b eat us,
yikes! ;)
Good game right up till the end.. Much m ore exciting than the usual cricket test m atch where we always win anyway. heh.
I have lived half my life in England (Born there) and half of it in Australia so I don't care either way, plus I don't like rugby :) .
Arkangel Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 04:47 PM

I know one line answers are against th e rules but :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > what book
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.50 cal bmg Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 2 : 4 0 P M

hey i wanted to buy a book on explosives and stuff like that i was just wondering what is the best book on hom e m a d e
weapons and explosives what ever i buy i will be sure to scan it and upload it to the ftp thanks
steyr Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 3 1 P M
I don't know what is best. I heard about:
Poor Man's Jam es Bond Volum es - good and bad opinions
P.A. Luty's 9m m smg - only good opinions (but luty is in prison)
H o m e W o r k s h o p 9 m m s e m i a uto pistol - I have copy of this book at my hdd, and i must say thats very good article, gun isn't
preety one as glock or luger, but it works!
ALENGOSVIG1 Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 4 7 P M
BUY THIS!!!
http://www.aslib.co.uk/notes/1999/sep /cd-rom /05.html

h a s a n y o n e h e a r d a n y t h i n g a b o u t h o m e m a d e g u n s a n d h o m e m a d e a m mo, i read some reviews and it sou n d s l i k e a g o o d
book anyone have this book or know if its any good
h m m m r e p l i e s a p p e a rs like burst from aksu rifle :D
so, i haven't read this book, but i think you could search the eMule for very m u c h e - b o o k s a b o u t e x p l o s i v e s a n d w e a p o n s .
T y p e " H o m e Workshop" in the search field.

i f a n y o n e k n o w a g o o d b o o k o n m a k i n g g u n s a n d a m m o or if anyone kn ow a website that has this kind of stuff for free please
post thanks everyone
blindreeper Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 6 : 4 3 P M
steyr, if your name is sposed to be the F88 you have spelt it worng. Its styer not steyr
ok.
first: i can have every username i think & i want & agreed the rules
second: it's not necessary to flam e m e
third: do you know STEYR scout? or aug? :p
so, can we get back to main topic?
Rhadon Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 0 6 P M
Steyr: Blindreeper didn't flam e you but it will be necessary to do so if you don't use proper spelling and gra m m er in the future.
ok ok you're right. my gram m ar isn't nice, but spelling is good. steyr is manufacturer of guns. so now, what's the name of best
book about hom emade weapons and explosives?
Rhadon Novem b e r 2 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 2 4 P M
Just begin your sente nces with a capital letter and it'll be fine. The best book abo u t e x p l o s i v e s a n d h o m e m ade wea p o n s ? I
don't know if there is something like "the best book". Alen's proposal looks excellent, but it's a bit expensive. The Preparatory
Manual of Ex plosives would be good either, but Unknown is already scanning that one so it wouldn't be worth buying.
Fine about capital letters. I've downloa d e d e b o o k f r o m eMule, called "Hom e W o r k s h o p F i r e a r m s 2 p i s t o l d e signs". It has full
instructions how to build pistol (2 designs), very much p hotos, plans, and it is only 3,22m b. Very sm all, so you can download it
fast. I like it, but I don't think it's best. It's good.
EDIT:
I forgot - now I'm downloading other e b o o k f r o m this series, about m a k i n g 9 m m s m g . T h is file is bigger (64 m b). I'll give
m ore info wh en i'll read it

how did u get that ebook i searched on emule and i couldent find it
I h a v e r e a d t h a t " H o m e m a d e G u n s a n d H o m e m a d e A m m o " b o o k , t h e w e a p o n s a n d a m m o in that are fairly crude and are
m eant for desperate situations, the sh o t g u n i n t h a t b o o k i s O K t h o u g h . T h e b o o k h a s s o m e u s e f u l i n f o r m ation regarding
propellants, steel pipe, etc. and will give you some idea s for sim p l e h o m e m a d e f i r e a r m s .

how is the homem a d e a m m o part of the book and the guns are they all single shot or do they have som e sem i auto thanks
for all the po sts
steyr Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 06:54 AM

.50 cal - Download it from byte devils server. I had it, and I don't have problem s to conne ct to it. At ByteDevils are (when you
type SEARCH: Hom e W o r k s h o p ) :
- Ho m e W o r k s h o p F i r e a r m s 2 Designs of Pistol
- Ho m e W o r k s h o p F i r e a r m s 9m m SMG
- Ho m e W o r k s h o p F i r e a r m s .50 caliber sniper rifle (m ovie)
- Ho m e W o r k s h o p P r o t o t y p e F i r e a r m s
There's also Poor Man's James Bond VOL. 2
.50 cal bmg Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 09:24 AM

i just downloaded im provised m u n i t i o n s b l a c k b o o k v o l 1 i t s a r e a l l y g o o d b o o k h a s l o t s o f e x p l o s i v e s a n d g u n s i n l o s t s o f
calibers but there all single sh ot

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > "Useless thread"
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Hm m m ... I want to know, what is useless thread. Ex:
STEN GUN IN PMJB
How much time will ta k e m aking sten if I have everything (tools, m ateria l s ) ? M a y b e s o m e o n e h a s s h o p p i n g l i s t w i t h parts (e x.
0 , 5 m o f s t e e l pipe, etc.). I want to make one, but plans I found are incom plete or too hard for m e... - That was m y post, and
I don't know what is wrong with it. Everybody can ask, huh? I think it isn't useless, because somebody can have problems like
m e!
I M P R O VISED ROAD SPIKES

Y o u c a n m a k e c r o s s e s f r o m two parts of flat steel, weld it and weld SHOR T nails to it. Now you m u s t m a k e f e w , a n d s p i k e i t t o
carpet. If you use lon g nails, they will bend. Short nails must be long enough to pierce tire. - Short post about m a k i n g r o a d
spikes. It works, and it's easy, so i repeat: WHAT IS W R O N G ? I t ' s b e c a u s e I ' m n e w b i e ? W aiting for response...
Efraim_barkbit Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 07:04 AM

If you truly a re interested in this things, and want to stay here, you shall accept things as they are.
but I dont think you really ca re.
IF you where truly interested, you would be thankful for the goldm ine of information availiable here. not wa nting to loose it.
If m y presen ce here were thre athened, I would rather keep quiet, and still have the availibility to learn from the site, than try
t o d e f e n d m yself, wich would lead to m y removal.
There is no way, as a newbie, that you can win a discussion over the m oderators, because they have all the power.
You have nothing.
Not even a valid point.
Rest In Peace

Ok you're rig ht. But why every m y post is "useless" when I give solution to problem ? This site is best in the web, but how
s o m ebody new can le a r n a n d h e l p ? R e ally the inteligence is num ber of posts? If yes, how I can be m ore intelligent? :confused:
There's no way to start!
I m ust say sorry to m oderators for my faults
Rhadon Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 08:59 AM

But why every my post is "useless" when I give solution to problem ?
Y o u r g r a m m a r s e e m s to be worse than I thought. It's hard to appreciate your posts if we have problems understanding them.
Perhaps it might help to let yourself tim e when posting. You could have noticed yourself that the question how long it would
take to m a k e t h a t g u n was really nonsense.
This site is best in the web, but how somebody new can learn an d help? "Learning by doing" might be appropriate in som e
c a s e s , b u t n o b o d y h a s ever le arned much by creating posts, especially when you're a newbie. You learn be reading (other
m embers' posts, books, ...), and that's what you should do before posting.
Really the inteligence is num ber of posts? I'm sorry to say that, but in your case there seem s to be a connection between th e
two. Take your chance and do better.
Anthony Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 09:07 AM

Y o u r b i g g e s t p r o b l e m is that you created new threads without searching first. There are already threads that your posts could
have gone into without needing to create new ones.
That not being helped by your newbie status, it's good netiquette not to m ake new thread s on you r first post.

eeee? I didn't created new threads! I only answered. O h sorry, I created one thread, in wa ter coole r, you're reading it. What a
p r o b l e m ?!
Wild Catmage Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 04:38 PM

This is hardly relevent to this thread, but whilst surfing the web, I found this nice looking air rifle. Seeing as the topic was
"Useless thread" :rolleyes: I thought I m ight as well post this here...
http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/pguns/m r514k/
It's the first air gun I have seen in a bullpup type configuration and in my (humble) opinion it's the next best looking thing to
the FN-P90 (even if it is only an air weapon).
NB - The white thing towards the back of the weapon is the m a g .
grandyOse Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 09:35 PM

The world is a mean and rotte n place, steyr. When you write stupid things with second grade gram m er then whine about
people's reactions, you will find yourself on the outside looking in. It's just not rig ht. Stupid, whiney, illiterate people should be
acce pted for who they are and recognised for the valuable contribution th ey m ake to socie ty. I wish you luck in your crusade
against this kind of unjust bigotry. Go out there and m ake Don Quixote proud! (Steyr; that's Donkey Hotey to you).
Bert Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 11:14 PM

I don't think English is his native language- If he was contributing som ething new or asking sensib le questions, that wouldn't
m atter of course.
Steyr, m aybe kick back, search the site and read up on the information allready on the site for a while? You don't have to rush
right out & start posting just because you can. It m ight be a while before you've got something new to contribute or even a
q u e s t i o n n o o n e h a s a s k e d b e f o r e . A n d w h y w o uld anyo ne who took your nick want a piece of shit like a Sten gun? It's a
crappy, cheap ass bullet pum p with the ergonom ics of a m uffler!
Jacks Complete Novem ber 24th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Steyr,
H o p e f u l l y y o u g o t s o m e t h i n g o u t o f m y reply to you in the Sten gun thread.
Another thing - You a re telling us YOUR way. It m ight be the best way, or it m ight not be. Telling us it is the best way is
annoying, since I think m y way is better than yours, and there are ten other posts too!
It is left as a n e x e r c i s e t o t h e O P a n d o t h e r r e a d e r s t o s e e w h a t t h e y n e e d , a n d d o a s t h e y see fit. W ithout a welder, your

plan , and m ine, are useless. For remote dropping, your carpet roll is a waste of tim e, however, for situations where you want to
remove it again, it is ideal. Mine can't be picked up, but they would stop a car with run-flats from g o i n g f a s t d u e t o t h e
unbalancing of the wheel.
Horses for courses. That's all.
As a n aside, the IRA use(d) a carpet o f nails. They didn't need a welder. They just bought a load of carpet tacks, th e n
h a m m e r e d t h e m into the roll of carpet, rolling as they went. This was the n just unrolled across the road to be blocked. After all,
y o u d o n ' t n e e d a b a s e p l a t e , a s t h e t a rm ac will do, as long as the nails point upwards!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > EO D Career
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rp3o8 Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 02:13 PM

I ve n oticed there are a few EO D techs here ( Cyclonite, cam eroneod?) and was wo ndering if they h a d a n y t i p s o r i n f o o n
b e c o m ing an EOD t e c h i n t h e U S m ilitary. I ve b e e n t h i n k i n g a b o ut the Navy, but after speaking to a recruiter it sounds like its
pretty tough to get in, from what I und erstand they trea t it a lot like the SEALs.
I wo uld love t o h e a r y o u r o p i n i o n s b e f o r e I m a k e a d e c i s i o n ; like what s EOD school like? Does havin g prior k n o w l e d g e o f
explosives h e l p a n y ? I ve h eard the wash out rate is pretty h igh, so I w a n t t o b e a s m entally p r e p a r e d a s possible.
Bert Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 03:32 PM

Dude, realize this: The m ilitary will sort of "prom ise" to steer you into your desired specialty to get you to sign up. After you've
signed your life away, they will do with you what they dam n well see fit. And ask som e of the EOD people ju st what the job
really entails- It may not be q uite what you're thinking.
Arkangel Novem ber 23rd, 2003, 07:19 PM

'Aint that the truth!
"you wanna be a pilot? Sure kid, no problem. T here are no vacancies at the m o m ent, but if you join now as a cook, we'll
guarantee to let you retrain in a year":rolleyes:
T h e U S n a v y U D T g u y s , a s y o u ' v e s u g g e s t e d a r e t r a i n e d t o a h e l l o f a h i g h s t a n d a r d , s a m e in the British Royal Navy. But if

you're thinking of joining the m ilitary, you shouldn't be going in with any other attitude than being the best you can - and that
takes a shitload of effort.
Can't give you any specific advice rega rding the U S m ilitary though I'm afraid It seem s over here most EO D guys co m e i n a s
engineers, both in the arm y and airforce - Royal Engineers/Arm a m e n t s t e c h
Any com m e n ts from Celtick?
MrLubricant Novem ber 25th, 2003, 08:07 PM

im p l a n n i n g o n b e i n g a n E O D in the USAF. there job is mostly rem oving faulty ordnance from aircrafts, and also taking care of
p r o b l e m s in the local com unity. i got to job sha dow at whitem an AFB and the guys out there where realy cool. they let m e f o o l
around with there robot and showed me there room full of mock explosives. everything from forien to IEDs. they said it wasnt
easy and i forget if the training course was 9 weeks or 9 m onths but im pretty sure it was 9 somethin. and they said that the
training facility was used to train all branches. just take the ASVAB as often as possible an d check your results with the m ilitary
carrears(sp) book in your schools library. i was off the last time i took it by a few points but im ready for the next one i get.
hopefully anyway. hope i was helpfull.
rp3o8 Novem ber 26th, 2003, 12:07 PM

How did you setup the job shadow? I live within a few hours of Fort Camp b e l l a n d t h e R e d s t o n e A r s e n a l , s o I m ight try to visit
them sometim e.
The first tim e I took the ASVAB I scored in the 81 percentile, which I think should qualif y for EO D ( I d o n t rem e m b e r a n y
specific raw scores). I believe the minim um for Navy EOD is AR+VE=110, MC=50.
From http://www.uxoinfo.com ....

The training is done at Eglin AFB in two phases,
Phase I is 10 weeks and covers, chemical weap o n s / a g e n t p r o c e d u r e s , e x plosive ordnance identification and hazards, EOD to ols
a n d e q u i p m ent, basic dem olition tools and equipm ent, EO D reconnaissance, locating surface and buried explosive ordnance.
P h a s e I I i s 1 7 weeks long and goes into detail with ground ordnance, air ordnance, IEDs, and nuclear weapons.

m r lubricant-
EOD requires a near perfect attention to details. Failure or forgetfulness in one small step may result in your death and/or
considerable other destruction . Start developing good habits now. Go back to your post an d wire it TIGHT.
Arkangel Novem ber 26th, 2003, 06:42 PM

i forget if the training course was 9 weeks or 9 m onths but im pretty sure it was 9 somethin :rolleyes:
If ever I saw an advert for someone not to get involved in Pyro/EOD then that is it.
I t s a i d s o m e t h i n g a b o u t s u l p h u r - I m ust have it or I mustn't ha ve it, but I know it had su lphur in it:(
If you actually W ANT to be EOD instead of wannabe, then you'd better start putting som e work in now. As Bert says, "attention
to detail", and how about you start on your Eng lish. I know this is the watercooler, but you'd better start writing properly befo re
you post anywhere else
MrLubricant Novem ber 29th, 2003, 02:30 PM

Thanks for the advice Arkangel. The reason i was a little spotty on detail is becau se the event took place nearly two y e a r s a g o .
T h o u g h o n n o r m al circum stances that would in no way a ffect my mem ory m y p r e p l a n n e d j o b s h a d o w s e e m ed to coincide
perfectly with m y getting bronchitus. So i was forced to take a plethora of OTC and prescription medicines b efore m y step
m other would allow m e out of the house. I was alm ost prevented from going entirely. I only got to spend a b o u t a n h o u r a n d a
half there be cause my recruiter m a d e m e run around with him . Oh thats how i m a n a g e d t o a r r a n g e t h e s h a dow by the way.
Just make sure the recruiter d o e s n t m a k e y o u s h a d o w h i m inste ad of the EO Ds or you will be force d t o s p e n d t h e m ajority of
the day with him tryin g t o p e r s u a d e y o u n g m en and wom en to see the benifits of military life. I did m y last post at about 3:00
AM so im sure it was quite spotty. I understand this is n o excuse but we all have our m o m ents dont we?
Mmanwitgun88 D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 12:19 AM

Don't go EO D , I h e a r t h e r e s a l o t o f f u d g e p a c k e r s a n d P C a s s h o l e s i n t h e r e . I f y o u want to mess with explosives and learn how
t o u s e t h e m in a com b a t s i t u a t i o n a s k t o b e c o m e a 1 2 B r a v o a k a C o m bat Engineer.
~Dave
rp3o8 D e c e m ber 6th, 2003, 11:24 AM

T h e o n l y t r aining in e x p l osi v e s y o u ge t, a s a n A r m y C o mba t Eng ineer, is how to insert the det. and where to put the charge.
Also, I really doubt there are m any, if any, que ers that would choose EOD as a ca reer.
I was hoping to get a reply from one o f the EOD techs, but it loo ks like n either have been online for several weeks now.
cameroneod January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 0 2 P M

Its a great career. The school averages out to about a year for most entrants. Nine m onths is the m inimum . Stateside its not
too exciting. Mostly Secret Service, pipe bombs, and dem olition work. On the other hand, if you can get overseas DO IT. Thats
where you'll run into the classified m issions, MIA/PO W recovery, etc. Regardless of what you decide if your going to join the
m ilitary go EOD. Its true that 90% of a ll applicants fail, but its definately worth the risk. Youll never look ba ck.
tom haggen January 29th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 3 1 P M

r p 3 o 8 , C o m bat Engineering envolves a lot of education in the sructual field. You need to know a lo t about structual integrity if
you are going to properly dem olish a bridge with explosives. Though Combat Eng ineering doesn't directly e n v o l v e e x p l o s i v e s ,
their expertise is needed when placing charges on a bridge or what have you. There is a h ell of a lot m ore to com bat
engineering than just learning on how to insert a detonator. cam eroned, your funny man, you say that its not that exciting to
do E.O.D. work state side. Dem olition work sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to m e .
rp3o8 January 29th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 3 5 P M

C a m e r o n e o d , is there a particular branch you would recom m e n d ? I h a v e b e e n t h i n k i n g a bout either Navy or Air Fo rce. I m still
n o t s u r e t h o u g h , I ve recently b een considering other opportunities with college.
Cyclonite January 30th , 2004, 10:49 AM

EOD is the best job in the m ilitary if yo u dont m ind the work, if you cant hack it you wont make it through. 12B are quite the
o p p o s i t e o f a n E O D tech, its an insult to relate the 2. Its just infantry with dynam ite. Im in the Arm y, if you want to go navy
EOD its quite a bit harder, theres dive school first and then after ever other branch gradua tes you still have to go through
underwater d emo and area 8 which I hear are the m ost challenging of all. Iv never studied so m uch in m y life. The
requirements for army arent all that high, well m a y b e c o m pared to m ost of the dum bshits in the arm y it is.The requirements
are you cant be color blind, you have to have a n ASVAB score of 50, and your GM line score m ust be 110 or 115 I forget. I
would go air force unless you really want m ore of a "SEAL" type job. If you have a ny questions id b e happy to answer.
If you want college m oney the army pays well, but I would have rather gone AF.
Arkangel January 30th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 1 : 4 3 P M

Cyclonite, an y word on what happened to your guys in Afghanistan?:(
I'm a s s u m ing they were grunts checking out a stash that was bo obytrapped, rather than EO D's, who tend to be a lot m ore
cluey about stuff like that.
Cyclonite February 2nd, 2004, 10:17 AM

From what I know the m unitions were being handled with close to no care at all and Murph y decided to apply his law.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Any Brits Here ? ( special
request )
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Rosco Bodine Novem ber 24th, 2003, 08:48 AM

There are two azide patents which seem to be a dead end on the patent servers. I wish th at anyone having access to a hard
copy archives of British patents would get and scan and post cop ies of GB128014 and GB129152. PDF's would be great .
note to m oderator : I first posted this help request in Links and Literature ,
only a few minutes ago , but thought I should also post here to the attn. of British citizens
so that the request would m ore likely be noticed . Hopefully this is a tolerable
strategy for a newbie , given the interesting nature of the patent informa tion requested .

C r o s s p o s t i n g is not allowed here, so I deleted your request in Links and Literature. W hy didn't you tell us what the patents are
about?

The abstracts for the patents are available at ESPAC ENET
but the full texts won't display .
T h e p a t e n t s d e s c r i b e s i m plifie d direct m ethods for producing azides from

reaction of hydrazine sulfate solutions with m etal nitrites , which
is a theoretical route which works well enough o n paper ,
but has never produced the desired product in any actual experim ents
which I have ever done . Nothing in the way of specified conditions
for the reaction has e ver been otherwise published , so those two patents
are especially significant .
ABSTRACTS pasted below :
GB128014
Salts of hydrazine are diazotized by means of a suitable nitrite, without the use o f ethyl benzoate or the like, the reaction
m a s s b e i n g k e p t o n t h e b o r d e r l i n e b e tween acidity and alkalinity. For example, hydrazine sulphate is treated with sodium
nitrite; the sodium azide produced, without being separated, m ay be cau sed to react with silver nitrate for the production of
silver azide. W hen lead azide is to be prepared, hydrazine nitrate m a y b e u s e d i n p l a c e o f t h e s u l p h a t e .
GB129152
An insoluble azide is produced by diazotizing a hydrazine salt in practically neutra l solution and in presence of a salt, such as
silver nitrate, adapted to produce the insoluble azide. The azide is then treated with a solution of a salt such as sodium
chloride to obtain the desired azide an d an insoluble silver salt. From t h e s o d i u m a z i d e , o t h e r a z i d e s s u c h a s l e a d a z i d e m a y
b e o b t a i n e d b y d o u b l e d e c o m p o s i t i o n i n t h e k n o w n m anner.

Rhadon ,
Sorry for any unintended infraction . I was hopeful that because of the
potential significance of these two "missing" azide patents that crossposting
m ay be tolerable usage of bandwidth , and may even be worthy of being
m ade a "sticky" topic in Links and Literature . If these patents d escribe
valid synthetic routes to azides , it would greatly sim plify the pro duction
o f a z i d e s f r o m O T C m aterials . The on ly similar synthesis I have seen
reported is a brief m ention in COPAE concerning silver a zide . In another
source I can't recall , there was a m e n t i o n o f u s i n g s o d i u m m etabisulfite
as the buffering agent in nitro sations of this so rt . I have tried sodium acetate
a n d s o d i u m bicarbonate as a buffer , but no joy , even in experiments to produce
copper azide by such a direct m ethod . Similar failure occurred for attem pts to produce
l e a d azide by this sim plified m e t h o d . T h e s i l v e r c o m p o u n d h a s n o t b e e n
attem pted . Any attem pts at this route of synthesis by anyone e lse ?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Take a look
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thrall Novem ber 24th, 2003, 08:51 AM

Visit the link ;)
http://m a d s e m ail.netfirm s.com /
enjo y :)
PS:I m ean no offence.Just found it too hilarious so I thought I should share it.
rest is in the site anyway.
Any com m e n ts??

O n e o f o u r m e m bers created this site som e tim e a g o : D .
Wild Catmage Novem ber 24th, 2003, 05:41 PM

I think I'd rather take the "pennywhistle ass pirate" as opposed to the "TRUE DARK SOUL of ANARCHY POW AR". At least here,
people can spell :rolleyes:.
However, the instructions for the pig killer gun were quite am u s i n g .
How to m a k e a k i l l e r g u n
(i didn't tell you this!!!111 LOL)
Ingredints:
-A piece of 1/2 in steel pipe, 5 feet long
- a h a m m er
-your hand
-a fifty caliber bullet
This is a bolt-action gun and is very dangerous, my friend who is 12 and is relly cool and m e m ade it.
OK, you put a bullet in the end of pipe , and hit it with the ham m er. Dude its acurate and awesum and com pact it sh oots like a
m ile .
This guy's site is killing me :p .
EDIT - One day later...

T h e c o m m ents in their "PHORU M" are really pissing me off now :m ad:. I'm currently working on a plan to take them offline. I'll
let you know if I have any success...
steyr Novem ber 24th, 2003, 05:51 PM

EHHEHEHEH ;] He rocks ;] He's more than |< 3 (_|_) |_. I can't write when I read it... HHHAHA ;] Very big LOL for him ;]

The site didn't work when I tried to access it.
Wild Catmage Novem ber 25th, 2003, 09:12 AM

The site doesn't work any m ore because I got it taken down after e-mailing the h o s t i n g c o m p a n y .
EDIT - Whoops, sorry about gettting them closed down. I just really hated the site's lies about this forum and their constant
flam ing of our m ods. I'm rather protective of the EW F, and reacted rather strongly to their slagging off of this site. Anyway, a
source of valuable inform ation was not lost, just a source of am u s i n g f a l s e h o o d s . I f t h e g u y h a s a n y s e n s e , h e ' l l f i n d another
host soon.
If anyone wa nts to view Google's cache of their homepa ge, go to www.x-m ail.net and login under the usernam e EW F_User
The password is theforum
There should be two m ails there, one being a copy of the Anti-Phorum hom e p a g e , a n d t h e o t h e r b e i n g t h e e - m a i l I r e c i e v e d
from Netfirms.
john_smith Novem ber 25th, 2003, 09:45 AM

W HY THE HELL DID YOU DO T H A T ? ? ? B a s e d o n t h e q u o t e s a b o v e , i t m i g h t ' v e b e e n a really fun rea d...
Bert Novem ber 25th, 2003, 11:31 AM

Got to agree... Why DID you do that?! I'd just forwarded the link for the detonating balls to a few people.
thrall Novem ber 25th, 2003, 02:38 PM

It was a good fun and it's all gone.It was strange to think that som e o n e h a d t h e t i m e t o m a k e s u c h a f o r u m and to m ore
a m a z e m e n t t h e r e w e r e m e m bers there too!!.Anyway what's done is done. E&W ,Mega and nbk were explicitly mentio ned there
and that too by a greatest possible |< 3 \/\/ |_ probably thats why he ha s put the thing offline.But I'll miss that site.:(
vulture Novem ber 25th, 2003, 03:27 PM

W TF? W hy the FUCK did you do that? Are you totally retarded or something??
It's a fucking bogus site to am u s e p e o p l e ! ! !

Djeezes, I th ought the last thing people would do here was to ra t out sites...:rolleyes:
T h u m bs down.
Congratulations for restricting the right of free speech. :mad:

Any chance the creator has it saced som ewhere and can re-instate it else where?

W ild C a t M a g e ,
Since Rhadon stated clearly further up the thread that a board m e m ber here had put it up , and it was an obvious hoax site (or
so it would seem ) wtf was the point in getting it DoS'd?
I c h e c k e d o u t the cached version, and it was very funny.
S e e m s they were getting quite a lot of traffic, though, since it was down due to bandwidth when I tried it the other day.
W as it someone who got banned from here, or was it definately a joke, Rhadon?
vulture Novem ber 25th, 2003, 07:11 PM

host soon.
The "guy" who set this up was/is a mem ber of EW F! It's a kewl mockery site! I wrote som e r e c i p e s m y s e l f o v e r t h e r e t o a m u s e
people!
T h e f l a m i n g o f m o d s w a s d o n e b y T h e E d s o l e l y , w h o g o t h i s a s s b a n n e d (rightly so) over here.
grandyOse Novem ber 25th, 2003, 09:22 PM

i agre its the bestest site in bom s and coolstuff. unFUCKing believable! Closed down? For what GOOD reason? Man, the guy
who went to all the trouble to m ake that site was a comic genius. What site offers so much humor? totally pissed!

W as it someone who got banned from here, or was it definately a joke, Rhadon? It definitely was a a joke and was m a d e u p
by Madscientist IIR C.
megalomania Novem ber 26th, 2003, 02:31 PM

*sniff* Som e b o d y m e n t i o n e d m e b y n a m e? W hat did I ever do :( O h well, kewl p arody is all well a nd good. I am sure it will
s p r i n g b a c k u p s o m ewhere.
rp3o8 Novem ber 26th, 2003, 03:28 PM

Parts of that site have been archived here, http://web.a rchive.org/web/*/http://m a d s e m a i l . n e t f i r m s.com/ Sep 25, 2 0 0 2 l o o k s
like the best record, but there are still som e lin ks that will not work.
Sparky Novem ber 26th, 2003, 05:53 PM

That was a funny site! And you ruined it! As vulture has made abundantly clear th is site was not actually intended to insult
anyone except kewls.
W ild C a t m a g e I think you certainly owe the persons page you got taken down an apology that acknowledges your m istake.
Also to all the people who are pissed off at you . IMO a good course of action right now to fix your m istake is to contact the
hosting com p a n y a n d explain to try an d get the site put back up.
John A shcroft Novem ber 26th, 2003, 07:12 PM

I a m sure it will spring back up somewhere.
I t d o e s n ' t s t r i k e m e a s b e i n g a s i t e t h a t j u s t p o p s u p l i k e g o p h e rs through a beautiful lawn.
I'm g u e s s i n g t h a t s o m e p e o p l e p u t a c o n s i d e r a b l e a m o unt of tim e into that site, and won't be too pleased to see their work
annihilated by the actions of a worthless dum b a s s .
John A shcroft Novem ber 26th, 2003, 11:09 PM

host soon.
I'm stunned that you have the audacity to try making your stupid destruction seem meaningless while issuing degrading words
about what you destroyed. I'm stunned that you also dare to continue onto viewing the creator in an extremely judgemental
light.
Sounds like your neuron m isfired. I'm sorry to hear that.

THErAPIST Novem ber 27th, 2003, 03:38 AM
F U C K T H A T S H I T . I f a n y o n e c a n h e l p m e g a t h e r the entire thing, I'll put it on m y website's server. My website is a .org for one
t h i n g , a n d n o t s o m e shitty geocities PO S, and the server that m y site is run off of belongs to someone I know so it would never
b e t a k e n d o w n a g a i n n o m atter what a nyone said or tried to do.
Cat... you sh ould calm down or something. Free speach is a righ t not a p rivelage. W hether you like what you saw or not you
shouldnt have tried to have it taken down. BUT... thats enought of that. Its over now and everyone else has already said what
shoudl have been said so...
Anyway guys, help m e g e t b a c k a s m u c h o f t h i s t h i n g p l e a s e
zeocrash Novem ber 27th, 2003, 02:33 PM

g r a a a a a h i t ' s g o n e , n ow i'll ne ver be able to continue m aking witty and insulting rem a r k s a b o u t t h e e d ( m e and him are
archenem i e s ) . d a m n you, damn you to hell/totse/queerpeer/BFL section.
i was a regular (1ce e very 2 weeks) visitor to th at site so i'll check m y temporary internet files and see if i can find a copy of
the page
nbk2000 Novem ber 27th, 2003, 05:20 PM

It should have been obvious that the site was OK when a m od says it was created by a m e m ber and gave a big grin :D to it. It
was also SO stupid as to be (to m e anyways) a blatent paradoy, but anyways...
W hat's done is done, and the site served it's purpose of clowning TOTSE and m adscientist, and really didn't serve any purpo se
a n y m ore so I'm not pissed that it's gone.
H O W EVER...
Ratting out a site that hasn't personally attacked you is really ra ther low class. Especially as it should have been brought to
staff attentio n first about a site that was "insulting" us, so that we could deal with it as we saw fit. What if it hadn't b e e n a
parody site and we wished to punish the creator in a m o r e s e v e r m a n n e r t h a n s i m ply 404'ing his site? We might lose that
opportunity because a NEWBIE took it upon him self to act rashly.
T h e y o u n g g e n e r a l l y a r e i n c a p a b l e o f m aking hard decisions unless those decisions are associated with im m ediate violence
and the consequent sharp flow of adrenalin.
In this case rushing into rash action without regards to the consequence. :rolleyes:
Anyways...if the m e m bership says HED to W ild C atm a n g e , s o b e it.
And, to quote some fam ous d ead guy;
I disagree with everything you say, but I'll defe nd to the death your right to say it.
That is, unless of cou rse, it pisses m e off, in which case I'll destroy you, but that's another story. ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Newbee
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jestor1776 Novem ber 24th, 2003, 10:20 PM

Hello,
I was directed to this site trough Yahoo search engine. I was looking for info on p roduction of Nitric acid. I have read most all
the threads, and it is very helpful. Thank you!
I hope to learn more.

Although it is done on other forums, here, newbies don't norm ally start topics to introduce themselves.
But welcom e a n y w a y a n d I h o p e y o u b e c o m e a v a l u a b l e m e m b e r.

BTW , there is an existing thread in "the watercooler" re: How did you find the forum?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > any weapon plans for a .30 8
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.50 cal bmg Novem ber 25th, 2003, 10:02 PM

d o e s a n y o n e have any weapon plans for .308 cal and 25/35 bullets thanks for an y posts

Sorry, but you have lost m e.
C a n y o u e x p l a i n i n a b i t m ore details what you mean?

.50 cal bm g, you've got to work on your posting style.
.50 cal bmg Novem ber 26th, 2003, 04:25 PM

shit sorry i was a bit high when i posted this iam trying to ask if there are any weapon plans out there that use .30 cal bullets
or .25 cal thanks for any posts

.50 cal bm g, your last post in this thread was in no way better th a n t h e p r e v i o u s o n e . W h e n y o u h a v e a l o o k a t y o u r k e y b o a r d
it will invite you to use proper punctuation and capital le tters. If you can't post when you're stoned you should only post when
you're sober.
Darkbloodpriest Novem ber 27th, 2003, 01:17 AM

In a remarkable state of sobriety I happened across this wonderful site by the na m e o f g o o g l e .
Y O U W OULD NOT BELIEVE THE STUFF ON THERE! It seems that not only can you bring up sites online, put forum posts as we ll!
I couldn't believe my eyes when I seen the plethora of information before m e when I typed in 25 caliber plans and other
sim ilar topics :rolleyes:
W hen in doubt.....search.
W hile this does kinda fall under the whole E&W thing, is anyone here actively looking into this sort of thing? Really though,
when we have mem bers thinking of recoilless rocket lau nchers, plans of taking over the world, and how to make explosives
from things OTHER than bleach...whos got tim e to build a gun from scratch? :p
If you get access to the ftp....try looking up som e o f t h e b o o k s . Y o u m ig ht find one or two things you can make work :D
S o m e o f u s s h o u l d n ' t e v e n p o st when we ARE sober...and to admit to it....tsk tsk.
ossassin Novem ber 28th, 2003, 12:41 PM

I would not recom mend building a .308 as your first gun. That cartridge is pretty powerful, and the whole th ing is liable to blow
up. I suggest that you start out with a .22 and m o v e u p from there.
I don't know of any rifles that use a .308 that are particularly easy to build. Som e famous ones include the M-14, the FN/FAL,
the M-40, an d the M-24. It's a good caliber: powerful, flat-shooting, has long range capabilities...but it has its disadvantages.
It excels at long-ranges, but since you r gun will probably not be that accurate anyway, I would suggest that you use something
like the .223 or even a pistol cartridge such as the 9mm or the .45 ACP. Something like the Sten Mk II would be fairly easy to
build as far as firearm s g o . T h e g r e a s e g u n w o u l d p r o b a b l y b e e asy, too, if you could find plans. You should definately build a
s m a ller one first, though.
F e e l f r e e t o e - m a i l m e ( a l e x g r e e n 9 7 7 @ h o t m ail.com) for plans a n d s u g g e s t i o n s . I d o n ' t h a v e f t p a c c e s s t o u p l o a d t h e m .

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > What explosive next?
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Zeitgeist November 26th, 2003, 03:17 AM

I've sucessfully prepared AP, HTMD and MEKP, now just wondering, what to try next - I can't easily get exotic precursors like HNO3
Macgyver November 26th, 2003, 03:49 AM

Why not ANNM or APAN?

NM might be hard to get, and i think trying to buy AN in this day and age isn't easy
I have to take a bit of a road trip to a major city next week so i might hunt down some Mg or Ca nitrate, and/or H2SO4 and conc. H2O2
Fellow Australians, any tips for aquiring decent glassware?
scarletmanuka November 26th, 2003, 05:13 AM

Zeitgeist, just the other day at a model shop I saw 5L of pure NM for $80. Im sure most places could order it in for you. The question is, do you want to buy $80 worth of any
explosive? AN is fine as long as you buy large amounts and that your old enough to shave. As for glass ware, I struck a deal with a friend at CSIRO.
BTW As long as you have money, most suppliers dont give a shit what you're buying the chems for.
blindreeper November 26th, 2003, 05:17 AM

There are so many glassware suppliers! How can you ask "know of any decent glass suppliers"!
Ebay is a start, they sell many good things. Also why do you want Ca and Mg nitrate? BTW Mg nitrate is in my pdf

Thanks for the response guys,
I don't think i would buy $80 worth of NM
I have seen that same Mg Nitrate in hardware and garden stores before, i will have to find a hydroponic store to hunt down some decent H2O2, 6% is too expensive for it's
yeilds, and apparently Ca nitrate is extensively used in hydroponics. I just thought they would be easier to find and less suspicious than K, NH4 or Na, but i might find them,
Large amounts of AN? What's that, 50Kg bags?
I want the nitrates to try and make HNO3 and/or directly make organic nitrate HE's

When people say "oh I don't want 50kg of AN or xNO3" thats pretty stupid. You will always use it! I had a 50kg sack of KNO3 and thought to myself I'll never use this up but I
am down to 20kg in about 6 months...
bobo November 26th, 2003, 07:22 AM

If you can buy uncontaminated AN you might make money from it. It shouldn't be illegal to ship to other places I think and many ppl like you look for AN in kg quantities. It
might be wise to label the package that it contains a fertilizer for algae culture or some bullshit like that. No idea how much customs check a package of pellets though. But I
see kgs of AN go for 5 euros around these parts so...
About the ideas... how about picric acid or nitrocellulose?

I might look at ice pack AN, just a small amount
I don't really have anywhere to store 50Kg bags of AN, KNO3 etc
If i can get suitable nitrates, i think NC and picric acid will be the way to go.
I want to get a decent flask(s) before attempting to make HNO3, it's not a process well suited to jam jar chemistry
Hmmm, EBay for lab glassware you say......
Hmm, a UV/Vis Spectrophotometer, current bid $10, I have no use for it but it's still tempting for some reason....
scarletmanuka November 26th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Believe me, in the thrill of having 50kg of NH4NO3 or KNO3 loaded into the back of the car, you don't worry about where to store it. Besides, you could always use some of it
for fertiliser. Surely you have a shed/garage, a fifty k sack doesn't take up too much room. It sure as hell is alot cheaper than ice packs. For the price of ten of them, you need
never worry about it again.
McGyver November 26th, 2003, 03:16 PM

One box of icepacks can containts 150g+ of AN and that enough for a APAN charge, so if your "tired" of making primaries, thats the next best thing. I wouldn't mind aquiring 5L
of NM, i was thinking of making some plastique.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > m ultishot barrel loaded guns
and mortors weapon
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Barcy Novem ber 26th, 2003, 07:34 PM

Hi Guys,
Y o u m a y o r m ay not have com e across a company calls Metalstorm that m a k e s o me pretty advanced and powerfull weaponary
(great aussy inventions). The main interest I have is finding out how they manag e their m ultibarrel/multiload firing system. I
a m familiar with pyrotechnics and understand the principles of a rom an candle firing systm , b u t t h e i n v e n t o r h a s d o n e s o m e
thing different and ca n safety electrically fire these barrels and loads in any setting. Eg. single shots, burst or just plan old
auto. The big bonus to these systems is they are loaded to the gills with amm o a n d o n e o f t h e e a r l i e r h a n d h e l d p r o p o t y p e s
was capable of holdin g 600 rounds and if I recall could fire 30,000 rounds per minute (no I am not exagerating). Image what
this would do to a hard target with light to medium arm our.
If you want to have a look at www.metalstorm.com, you can see what I m e a n b y t h e e f f e c t i v e n e s s o f t h e s e i n v e n t i o n s .
I f y o u h a v e s o m e i d e as on the firing system, b eyond an electrically fired rom an candle system, I would like to hear it.
I_am_the_Black_one Novem ber 27th, 2003, 01:27 AM

http://www.m e t a l s t o r m . c o m F i x e d l i n k
Bert Novem ber 27th, 2003, 02:17 AM

It has superim posed loads, that is the only sim ilarity to a rom an candle... The delay and ignition schem es are electronic, no t
pyro technic.
The rounds are self contained. The ignition is electrical, apparen tly by an induction m echanism, with no thru barrel wiring
required thereby. I wonder how high a pressure and velocity this system is currently capable of, the uses as a grena de launcher
or m ine distribution system do seem more in line with the apparently low pressures used. They claim it functions as either a
rifled or smoothbore. They also have some interesting claims about the velocities and "cham ber" pressures of multiple rounds
"in flight" in the sam e barrel at the sam e tim e- I'd like to sit down with their engineering staff, they're a bit cagy on what
they've put out in the ir FAQ!
mr.pyro Novem ber 27th, 2003, 03:17 AM

I f I r e m e m ber right, there was som eth ing like this I saw on another forum a while ago, not sure if it was the same company or
not. I think thier bigg est gun was able to rip 1 m illlon rounds per minute statistically.
They had a video of shooting it at plywood and the wood was annhialted.

Yes, it was m etal storm that m a d e t h a t g u n .
They hold the world records fo r the fastest firing projectile weapon (for some 36 b arreled monstrosity), the fastest firing
h a n d g u n ( O 'Dwyer Vle), and the most sophisticated handgun ( also the O'Dwyer Vle).
Barcy Novem ber 27th, 2003, 05:32 AM

Thanks for the inform ation Be rt. I suppose the next question or idea to bounce a round is - W hat techniques can us poor
technically/engineering deprived home weapons people come up with that may give us similar results if not the sam e results
(but have to be realistic here and assume this is not go i n g t o h a p p e n ) ?
I c a n e n v i s a g e t h e u s e o f s o m e s m all but heavy barrels to accom odate an electricially fired (most likely a sim ple squib) to
each barrel. this would of course mean each ba rrel would result in a full auto rate of fire from each barrel. The loads would
have to be light for safety sake, but if the loads (propellents) were spaced with enough gap this would reduce the pressure
created by each individual shot. A little like the high/low principle that is used in the 40mm grenade (a high power charge that
disperses quickly into a larger confined area and becom ing a m ore gentle low power push). I know this prin ciple is great for
lobb i n g g r e n a d e s ( f o n d m e m o r i e s o f u s i n g t h e m 7 9 i n m y old army days), but very low power for sending a bullet o ut at high
speed.
Any ideas pe o p l e ?
nbk2000 Novem ber 27th, 2003, 05:22 PM

MANY PREVIOUS TOPICS ABOUT THIS! :rolleyes:
UTFSE!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Welcome member 5000!
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megalomania November 26th, 2003, 07:52 PM

I see from our member count that we are on the verge of welcoming member 5000 to The Forum! Horray, and whoopdy doo. A momentous number indeed. While we are way
over 5000 technicially since I periodically purge older members who do not log in, this is the first for so many at one time.
For the astute in the audience we just hit 4000 a few months ago, twice actually since I cleared out 400 old members when we hit 4000.
Lets all give ourselves a big round of applause, the Forum hits 5000 members, the overnight success (only 4 years in the making)!
PyroNitrate November 26th, 2003, 08:12 PM

* Gets 1000 tons of C4 * Hands megalo the trigger
BANG
Everyone:
HAPPY 5000!!!!!! YAYAYA
thrall November 26th, 2003, 10:52 PM

What I see is that it's only very lately that the member count increased very fast.When I joined two months ago it was 3800.That means 1200 members in two months(1/3 of
the previous member count) and thats very fast.Assuming exponential growth(which apparently it is!) the member count will grow very much in coming time.In that case
you(the people who made the forum as a community sevice(FREE) will have to put more resourses. But thats the purpose of the forum(free information). THANKS (not meant
as just a formal word) to aaaaaaal people who put their time, efforts and money to put this forum online.It's good to see people work for an unselfish cause(well that makes
you people true social workers;) if you don't mind). and it's great to see the people of true feedom(who have self restrain, rather than law putting restrains on them that they
defy all the time).And it's great to meet the people of true competence that care about respect rather than popularity.I'm a newbie and think I'll remain for a long time(I need
to learn a lot that I'm lerning) and I've been replied with sarcasm(silver fuliminate from olympic silver medal(damn!! I really liked that remark!)) on the few posts I've
made,but thats more like it!
CHEERS on the 5000 cause 6000 is about to come(may be next two months)
SO CHEERS for that as well
PyroNitrate November 26th, 2003, 11:27 PM

How many of them do you think are hear to learn to blow up mailboxes rather than to expand there minds?
I would say atleast 5% of who join?
Any other percents people?
thrall November 26th, 2003, 11:38 PM

I don't think people here are or will be upto cheap things like blowing mailboxes and other bullshit.Can't you feel an enlightenment aura here(well acknowledging competency
is interpreted as ass kissing here,or so I was reminded but anyway I couldn't find moderate words).Even if someone here will be upto not so legal acts I bet it will not be be
some cheap act like blowing up mailboxes:D .Hope you understand.
PyroNitrate November 27th, 2003, 12:42 AM

The "Hanus" seems to be elimated by the mods pretty fast, i would agree with you. But i was referring to new users who join, not working members.
Cricket November 27th, 2003, 01:31 AM

There it is.

hmm to add a name to our number i'd like to inform you all that member number 5000 is Psychoic.
welcome
nbk2000 November 27th, 2003, 05:21 PM

Hopefully #5,000 doesn't turn out to be a lame k3wL that has to be disintegrated. *crosses claws*

Actually number 5000 on the official member count is "ironbear" and he joined at a qurter after 10 Wednesday night.
angelo November 28th, 2003, 02:46 AM

we sure have come a long way...
I remember when we struggled to have 50 members that would show up.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Persulfates (Peroxydisulfates)
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Compounds like Sodium and Ammonium Persulfate are extremely powerful oxidants, and are readily available OTC from electronics suppliers for etching copper PCB's. Now,
from my experience this stuff won't burn in a mixture with sucrose, so it must only act as an oxidant in aqeous solution, right?
S2O8(2-) + 8H2O --> 2H2O2 + 4H3O(+) + 2SO4(2-)
Correct me if i'm wrong, but assuming that's what happens, to what extent might this equlibrium go to?
vulture November 28th, 2003, 06:04 AM

Usually it forms HSO4 (-) instead of SO4(2-).
Also, I don't think H2O2 is present, not even as an intermediate species.

Well, thanks for the reply, i just guessed since it is made from H2SO4 and H2O2, perhaps electrolysis will yeild H2O2.
Yes, of course you won't have much SO4(2-), just like a H2SO4 soln. (slaps head)

Well, thanks for the reply, i just guessed since it is made from H2SO4 and H2O2
Not really. That's H2SO5 you're talking about, aka Caro's acid, piranha fluid or peroxomonosulfuric acid.
Peroxodisulfuricacid can only be prepared by electrolysis of sulfuric acid.
Zeitgeist November 28th, 2003, 10:56 PM

Damn, i was close.
Can you think of any pyro use for this stuff?

No. It's not because it has many oxygen atoms that it's a good oxidizer. Both of them will only liberate one oxygen atom per mole when decomposed. Which is peanuts
considering their large mass.
They could be used to convert chlorates to perchlorates though.
chemoleo December 6th, 2003, 01:09 AM

persulfate can be actually made to burn, just mix it with sulphur powder... but beware of SO2, its nasty!
Vulture, do you have more on this, oxidation of chlorate to perchlorate with persulfate, or are you guessing??
vulture December 6th, 2003, 05:01 PM

S2O8(2-) + 2e- --> 2SO4(2-)
ClO3(-) - 2e- --> ClO4(-)

---------------------------------
S2O8(2-) + ClO3(-) --> 2SO4(2-) + ClO4(-)
left: 3- right: 5-
--> 2OH(-) ---> H2O
--> S2O8(2-) + ClO3(-) + 2OH(-) --> 2SO4(2-) + ClO4(-) + H2O
--> K2S2O8 + KClO3 + 2KOH --> 2K2SO4 + KClO4 + H2O
Now, I realize I equilibrated this for SO4(2-). Can't remember why.
The procedure works. Check Wouter Visser.
blindreeper December 6th, 2003, 10:54 PM

chemoleo, I don't think vulture would ever guess (well not often) about chemistry things, if you see him at sciencemaddness you will know he has a damn good knowledge of
chemistry.
Rhadon December 6th, 2003, 11:11 PM

chemoleo, I don't think vulture would ever guess (well not often) about chemistry things, if you see him at sciencemaddness you will know he has a damn good knowledge of
chemistry. You could say the same about chemoleo if you saw him over there :). But I think that he just said it to warn other people who read this topic.

Thanks for the little encouragement Rhadon:)
Anyway, Vulture, rather than the actual reaction (I checked it, it seems good :D), I wondered what conditions you'd need to achieve conversion of the chlorate ion to the
perrchlorate ion (apart from high pH).
Like most of us, I got heaps of persulphate, and I am not so convinced of the heating mehtod anymore (to convert chlorate to perchlorate), despite a number of posts on it....
I just wondered what the efficiency was, etc.... I'd be working with NaClO3, rather than KClO3, so precipitation wouldnt be a possibility really.
Anyway, are you suggesting it would work by just mixing persulphate and chlorate in stoichiometric amounts, with the necessary amount of KOH?? Thats all?
Sounds too good to be true!!
Chemoleo
PS I asked whether he was guessing as there a number of people who postulate potential chemical reactions, which seem possible at a first glance but often turn out to be
unworkable in real life. No offense to Vulture, or anyone. Just checking :)

Tsk, tsk, chemoleo, you're dissapointing me. High pH is only possible in solution, as solids don't have a pH.
I have not verified or performed this reaction myself, because I only have ammoniumpersulfate and I value my limbs and fingers.
Check the reduction potentials of S2O8/2SO4 and ClO4/ClO3 to check if it's possible or not. I don't have them at hand now.
EDIT: Heating method? Are you referring to 2KClO3 --> KClO4 + KCl + O2?
It does work. However, the decomposition of KClO3 straight to KCl and O2 is catalyzed by alot of transition metals. Try finding a heat resistant container that doesn't contain
those...
chemoleo December 7th, 2003, 10:34 PM

tststs vulture, you are disappointing ME that you think I would think something like that!!! :D:D
REad my post properly pls, as I clearly never talked about the pH of a solid ;)
This is the overall reaction:
K2S2O8 + KClO3 + 2KOH --> 2K2SO4 + KClO4 + H2O
What do you notice on the left side of the equation? 2KOH.

What do you notice on the right side? H2O. Hence, the reaction would/could/should? be done in solution, as H2O is produced anyhow.
Hence, for this reaction to work at all, you need a *high pH*, which is a result of the KOH present in *solution*. (I thought of doing this in solution to start off with :), not to
melt the whole thing together, as you seem to have thought!).
So, at least one condition of this reaction will be to have a high alkalinity, else the reaction aint going to work!!
See, this is why I asked to start off with, whether the reaction would work at all, cus I wasnt sure whether the oxidation potential of the S2O82- would be sufficient ot oxidise
ClO3- to ClO4-.
Hmm, sadly I wouldnt know of a source where I could check this... I am not in possession of this kind of literature!
cyclonite4 December 29th, 2004, 09:35 AM

persulfate can be actually made to burn, just mix it with sulphur powder... but beware of SO2, its nasty!
Vulture, do you have more on this, oxidation of chlorate to perchlorate with persulfate, or are you guessing??
Would you be able to provide an equation for that (for stoich, and knowing all the products), and would this be easily ignited, say, with a match?
Jome skanish January 15th, 2005, 09:43 PM

I wonder, HOW is persulfuric acid formed by electrolysis of sulfuric acid? I cant seem to figure out the reaction formula....
Could persulfate be formed by bubbling chlorine throgh a aquaeus sulfate salt solution?
2SO4-2 + Cl2 ----> 2Cl- + S2O8-2

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > about kingspaz
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John Ashcroft November 28th, 2003, 08:20 PM

Does anyone know where the fuck he is? I'm getting worried.
Efraim_barkbit November 28th, 2003, 08:53 PM

I thinl kingspaz have a very sexy picture. but it can just bee the booze...hahaha...
A while ago, he was "king of spaz", what does spaz mean anyway? i been thinking of it a long time.
xyz November 28th, 2003, 09:13 PM

Spaz is a slang term that originates from the word "spastic" and means spastic or retarded (Or that's what it means where I live anyway).

IIRC, Kingspaz is into college now and he doesn't have internet acces there.

New mod job available?

yeah and DBSP has it now.
John Ashcroft November 29th, 2003, 08:36 PM

Yeah, he did leave for college one weekend several months ago, but he said he'd have internet access after that weekend.
Axt November 30th, 2003, 02:58 AM

Mr Cools in the same boat, both from UK, both going off to university, both disapearing about the same time, I guess there eyes are fixed on the uni chicks .... bastards :D

Yet another mod job available? DBSP and Rhadon were given modship because so of the mods left IIRC...

Yet another mod job available?
x2.
You might as well adjust your signature:
I WANT TO BE A MOD! TAKE ME!

christ all the high ranking UK members are leaving,
I hope no other high ranking uk members have any plans on leaving.
blindreeper, you really aren't playing the power game too well, you have to do all you actions covertly and outwardly appear calm and indiferent about the job.
Bitter2 November 30th, 2003, 04:13 PM

Some of us have had to leave for very different reasons. Myself included.
blindreeper December 1st, 2003, 02:32 AM

Zeocrash, I don't expect to be a mod, I wasn't asking. I know I won't be a mod anytime soon, sorry if you were thinking that way...
- Bitter2, why do you impersonate long time members like Bitter the mod. There has a been a lot of it going. Example, these people registered; TheReaper (also from blind
skateboards as was my name derived), Radon (like the mod Rhadon) and PHILUO (PHILUO Zlrean)
It shits me people who think they are cool and have a similar name. Do they think they will be mistaken and get some special powers :confused: Honestly someone please
explaint his to me!
Vulture my sig has been changed :p But its just a joke ok guys and few girls, I am not meaning to be full of myself.
zeocrash December 1st, 2003, 06:14 AM

bitter2 isn't impersonating anyone. i'm afraid it's not for me to tell you why he's bitter2 now but trust me, it's the same guy.
bitter2 do you still have my personal e-mail, e-mail me
Bitter2 December 1st, 2003, 10:28 AM

I'm sorry, I don't have it. This is a new computer and I am not likely to get the other one back. I can't say I remember emailing you in the past, so it must have been a while
ago. Were we talking about a certain metal powder ?
John Ashcroft December 1st, 2003, 01:57 PM

TheReaper (also from blind skateboards as was my name derived), Radon (like the mod Rhadon) and PHILUO (PHILUO Zlrean)
Let's be reasonable here. There's over 5000 members, don't you think some people are going to look at this like people do with AOL screen names or email addresses? "Oh,
that's taken, I'll change it a little and see if it works then... yay!"
The word radon is completely different than rhadon.
I don't think any of those were attempts at impersonation.

Jacks Complete December 2nd, 2003, 10:50 AM
Only if you mean that it doesn't have one letter in common, that is.
I am quite sure that some will be attempts at getting respect by proxy.
It is exactly the same as taking ops on IRC by popping in with the same name as the regular ops, and waiting for someone to op you (this is why bots do it a lot now)
The only difference here, is the the board isn't going to get confused!
Bitter2 December 4th, 2003, 11:39 AM

Those in doubt can always check my IP.
zeocrash December 5th, 2003, 12:59 PM

bitter: i'm afraid that was not me. still give me an e-mail (using the button at the bottom of this message) and i'll give you my other e-mail address, so we can talk more.
Jacks Complete December 5th, 2003, 06:24 PM

Bitter2,
As a mod, or not, surely you would know that IP addresses are hidden to members?
Try clicking on one, and you get told off.
Personally, I have no idea if you are or aren't, but NBK2000 seems to think you have no chance getting Mod powers...
Bitter2 December 6th, 2003, 04:45 PM

Oh, you've only been here two months. That would explain alot.

That would explain alot. What do you think of?

it seems all the UK roguesci mods are dissapearing, mr_cool, kingspaz, bitter(back without modship), and it appears zaibatsu has gone AWOL too. anyone know where zaibatu
is, he hasn't posted in amout a month.
Arkangel December 8th, 2003, 07:25 PM

He's a neighbour of mine now - must drag him out for a beer sometime! Same deal as the other guys - other things in his life;)
But he does check in from time to time.
Bitter, I do have your email address and I'll be writing tomorrow afternoon. Work has been busy as recently, and like you (but for different reasons I suspect) I haven't been at
home a fat lot.
nbk2000 December 9th, 2003, 08:40 PM

Peoples interest change during the course of their lives. Some people leave home, go to college, and become pussy hounds.
Others go to college and learn all they can before they get tossed out into the real world.
Neither of these neccessarily allow time to moderate a board.
So they get a few months to get adjusted to college and either find time to fit in their duties or they're removed from the rank and returned to the file to make room for those
that DO have the time to do the job.
Others get booted because they're careless and have an extended stay in the grey-bar motel. These don't get to come back as mods because they've demonstrated that, for
whatever reason, they're not able to avoid drawing piggy attention onto themselves, thus bringing heat-by-proxy onto RS.org. Tsk, tsk.
And how convenient to say "oh, I don't have a copy of my original PGP key that I could have used to prove that I'm really who I say I am and not some piggy imposter trying
to infiltrate."
Riiiiiggght.
And I'm a paragon on modesty and virtue. :p
This either means you're:
A) Terminally lame by not backing up your keys to a website and/or with friends and/or burying a copy somewhere (as per RTPB), thus endangering RS.org through
carelessness. I'll bet your PGP passphrase was "DOH!", wasn't it?
B) A piggy imposter trying to weasel his way back in as "bitter".
Either way, it's not happening. Accept the fact that you lamed it up, got busted, and are now out in the cold. :mad:

Never used PGP in the first place, so the whole point is moot.
You're worrying about my actions "endangering" RS ? You're a suicide-bomber-in-a-shopping-centre too late to start doing that; if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
NBK, as an ex-con should know that more than anybody.
kingspaz December 13th, 2003, 06:06 PM

yer guys, was never my intention to give this place up but a certain stupid fucking computer breaking on the first day of uni sorted that....
Dead mAn Walkin December 13th, 2003, 10:37 PM

I was on a board containing, well, somewhat illegal content. A month or so after I arrived, all of the Major players went missing- some were arrested. just a peice of mind.
nbk2000 December 14th, 2003, 01:27 AM

The young man knows the rules. The old man knows the exceptions. The wise man knows when NOT to make exceptions. :p
Also, there's that RTPB about not associating with known losers. As a con (no ex- anything) I can tell you that associating with people who've been the target of police scrutiny
is a sure path to getting busted. Guilt by association and all that.
And never having gotten your PGP sorted out is another symptom of a lazy attitude towards security. I'd assume that means everything you ever had on your computer has
been sorted with a fine tooth comb by the piggies.
Like that wouldn't put you on a government watchlist considering how england treats our sort of subject matter, and you being a (former) mod of a "terrorist" network (as the
sheep dogs would call it)....right...and you've got a bridge for sale too, right? :rolleyes:
Suicide bomber didn't come back and ask to be reinstated as a mod, did he? No. Because he had the courtesy to DIE. You're still alive...perhaps you should correct that by
going out like a fedaykin? We'd be happy to reinstate your mod status as a posthumous honour.
You will NEVER be respected.
You will NEVER be trusted.
You will NEVER be reinstated.
So go suck pork dick. :)
Get the fucking point and LEAVE! :mad:
To everyone else, consider "bitter" compromised and in the service of the pork, if ever he approaches you about anything via e-mail/ICQ/whatever.
zaibatsu December 14th, 2003, 10:14 AM

Hi guys,
Spend most of my time in the big smoke now, trying to learn things. Should have got my laptop now, so I can view theforum, but the money I'm supposed to be getting keeps
being delayed.... After xmas/by the end of January I should be fine. I'm around for a while now though.
megalomania December 14th, 2003, 11:28 AM

What nbk says may sound harsh, but he is right. This is for your own good Bitter, believe it or not. IF you don't already know it they are watching you, and for you to hang out
here could jepordize your own future. I can't say what British law is, but I can't let you take the chance that they don't have rights to free speech as we do in America.
Lurk if you must, but distance yourself from the scene for a few years. Wait until all this 9-11 stuff dies down and people get their rights back. And of course in a few years the
heat will have died off.
I believe it is standard British legal practice to presume guilty until proven innocent, yes? That burden of proof is now yours.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Forum Customs
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View Full Version : Forum Customs
Dee November 28th, 2003, 10:48 PM

Just asking about any customs that I might break inadvertantly. First, any particular issues regarding posting in a thread that's been defunct for a month or two to ask a
potentially newby question? Secondly, any problems with emailing a regular a potentially newby question in order to avoid appearing foolish or newby? As I said, I just don't
want to violate an unwritten rule. Or any of the written ones, for that matter. Thanks.
Skean Dhu November 29th, 2003, 12:56 AM

too late!
seeing as you posted this in the water cooler, I find it hard to believe that you missed the big all caps thread title 'NEWBIES the Forums unwritten rules....written down."
i understand your need to make a post but you could have read the rules, then read them again and decided they answered all of your questions and your reputation here
would have gone untarnished.
i humbly suggest you think a little more and do a little more searching before you start a new thread that already has one opened.

Dee, do check out the sticky thread at the top of the page about theforum's unwritten rules. If you have any questions remaining afterwards, please ask them.
Your post was not a bad one to make, we like new members who are keen to learn and want to stick to the rules. However, the aforementioned thread will probably answer
all your questions, rendering this thread moot, so please search harder before you post in future :)

I don't mind when someone asks me a newbie question via email, if it is too stupid of a question i just wont answer.
Dee November 29th, 2003, 09:54 PM

Anthony,
Thanks for the reply. I did read the sticky you mentioned, but while I'm trying to catch up on as many of the threads as I can, every forum and newsgroup has it's own way of
handling things and unwritten rules always seem to stay ahead of the guys charged with writing them down. It just seems to be the nature of the beast. Neither of the
questions I originally posted were addressed in NBK2000's Rules post so I thought I ought to ask before breaking an undocumented rule. Thanks again.
Jacks Complete December 1st, 2003, 11:14 AM

I have to ask this question, too. Dee asked about re-opening old topics, and I have too.
Basically, topics that are six months old or whatever, need stirring every so often, so they don't get forgotten by the newer members. I have posted on a few old topics,
bringing, I hope, some new ideas and thoughts to them.
I see this as being in line with the idea of the forum. But I don't know if this frowned upon or not. I hope not.
nbk2000 December 3rd, 2003, 11:17 AM

There's nothing against the rules of replying to an old topic...as long as it's RELEVANT.
Nothing pisses me off like seeing a two year old topic restored by some newbie going "Yeah, I agree completely!". :mad:
If you've got an update, some new information to contribute...than go ahead and bring it back.
If you just want to say "Me 2", then be prepared to DIE! :)
Jacks Complete December 3rd, 2003, 04:55 PM

Well, since I didn't already get a bollocking, I figured it was ok! Nice to have it in writing.
I have now started two threads, in the hope of getting info as well as giving all I know on the subjects, as well as posting on some of the less current ones.
There is a fair bit of knowledge on both topics, but they are very diffused, with just little mentions here and there. Hopefully they will gather stuff together.
On those lines, if I find an interesting snippet somewhere on the boards, stuck in an otherwise un-related thread, what is the protcol on copying it to a current thread? I imagine
that it is obvious that credit would be given, but do you want a hyperlink to the original post?
Obviously cross-threading would be dumb, but if the thread is originally on one thing, but winds up on another topic all together, I think it a neccessary evil.
What do the mods say?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > SImple HV transformer for NItric acid production
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View Full Version : SImple HV transformer for NItric acid production
Chemical_burn November 29th, 2003, 02:55 AM

ok anyway I happened across this today searing for simple flyback transformers for use in making a jacob's ladder and this page was exactly what I needed. Myself having
little knowlege in electronics found this page greatly helpful and simple to understand and work with.
Also I have two old CTR monitors that can be sacraficed for this cause.
Out of curiousity could any one tell me approximitly how many watts a device like this would use to opperate because before I try it out for extended periods of time. I want to
have an Idea of how big my electric bill will be :D Dont want to try this and end up with a 3 times higher electric bill that before :eek: ;)
Also I am posting it here because I do not feel this merits being posted in the already existing Electric Arc for Nitric acid production in the nitric acid section.

Just get a microwave oven transformer, they are ready to go and put plenty of power out for a nice hot arc.
Nevermore November 29th, 2003, 10:29 AM

NO
a MOT will overheat in a couple of minutes and then die in a triumph of sparkles if you keep the arc on.
You need high voltage not high current, try with neon transformer, or oil burner.
frogfot November 29th, 2003, 11:10 AM

Nevermore, can't current in an arc be regulated??
One MOT i got can give 0,85A at 2100V continiuosly (if chilled by a fan) though I've never tested it..
nuclearattack November 29th, 2003, 12:10 PM

hello
i am a member of an italian mailing list about HV devices so i'm just using this kind of devices.
you need a neon sign trasformer because is current limitesd by a magnetic shunt but also the CRC modified trasform will do a good work. It will not burn, i use to let it making
beautiful sparks for long time and it works nice. The problem is that the HV metod is not very simple to use and it will not work well. i thought about this metod but i think that
there are better metods to obtain nitric acid!
use solforic acid and dissolve in it ammonium nitrate or potassium nitrate, this metod has been expleined very well in roguesci. make a search and you will find good topics!
good work
nuclearattack
Chemical_burn November 29th, 2003, 02:17 PM

I know that you can prolduce nitric acid with H2SO4 and a nitrate. I'm looking for a way to produce nitric acid in low consintration in large quanties then just distill to higher
consintrations.
Also its more of doing it because its difficult and fun not because it easy. If I wanted easy \I would just buy my HNO3 but no thats no fun at all.

Flyback trnasformers, while producing pretty sparks, don't really have the power throughput you need for nitric acid generation. If you re-read the nitric - by - arc thread you'll
see that the arc is just a means to an end - that of heating air rapidly to several thousand C. Your flyback tranny, while capable of producing NO2, will do so very slowly as it is
capable of very little power. MOT's are great if you want a high power arc, but you have the added complication of providing an inductive current limit, otherwise the low
impedance presented by the arc will cause the MOT to overheat.
Neon sign transformers really are the simplest way to go. They are already current limited, so they can operate into an arc all day without trouble. My one is rated at 400VA,
which is plenty of power for this application. Best of all, it simply plugs into the wall socket - no fancy drive circuit as with a flyback transfomer.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Michael Moore
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pornopete November 29th, 2003, 05:26 AM

Hey just wondering if anyone out there is a fan of micheal moore, his books Stupid white men or his films roger and me or bowling for columbine. Nothing to do with chemistry but i think he is a fucken legend.
zeocrash November 29th, 2003, 08:21 AM

don't get me started on michael moore. that 's one man who i'd like to take a baseball bat to. but hey if you like him, that's your opinion

He's a nob.
The only decent point he's ever raised is that Canada has roughly equal private gun ownership per capita, but much lower gun crime.
How the hell "bowling for columbine" gained film status, I have no idea. It's just a low quality documentary. He also takes things out of context to prove his points.
Maybe if he had some actual balls and journalistic talent he'd have written a book called "Stupid Niggers".

Stupid Niggers hahahhah:D . I'd but that book for sure! Maybe I'll read Stupid white men and make a spoof if I Have time(which I Dont)

I saw his movie Bowling for Columbine last month on pay per view and boy was it biased and one sided. He paints a pretty vivid picture to get his point accross, but for those of us who know better he blatently
overinflates the issues. Roger and Me was quite good though, even though it is not the duty of any corporation to keep a town afloat. Businesses exist to make money, not to employ people.
GibboNet November 29th, 2003, 10:00 PM

Download the movies from whatever p2p client you use, they are all over the place.
I saw a documentary of his a while back, though I forget what it was. he's done more than the two mentioned hasn't he ? Still, it was pretty interesting at the time. I'm still trying to work aout what it was about.
Though one sided etc, it would at least be good footage of the columbine 'tradgedy', I'm sure lots of people here would be interested in that.
IDTB November 29th, 2003, 11:33 PM

I can say I'm a ''fan'' of Michael Moore's, but I'm definitely fond of his work. 'Bowling for Columbine' doesn't have any special footage of the Columbine shooting that wasn't already popular. It really wasn't directly
related to Columbine, though some parts take a focus to it.
I've just recently finished reading "No Easy Answers: The Truth Behind Death at Columbine" by Brooks Brown. See, Brooks(the auther/Columbine student) isn't a writer. He shows it well within this book. If anyone
looks at this book with intentions of purchasing... DON'T. Some information is relevent, but for the most part it's full of stuff no one really cares about... like Brooks Brown.
Sorry if that last paragraph/rant was off-topic.
darkdontay November 30th, 2003, 01:43 AM

I found both moives Mediocore at best. It was way to biased and seemed more like a moives to make him money and waste our time.. not to mention try and get him self back into the media again then any sort of
real attempt to be true to the issues. As allways my views are just mine and if you not agree with them your free choice. [AKA Flaming is lame.]
Bitter2 November 30th, 2003, 04:08 PM

Twats like Michael Moore were the reason I spent two months at her majesty's pleasure.
photonic November 30th, 2003, 06:59 PM

Michael Moore drives me insane. I'd also like to know where he gets his statistics. After watching "Bowling for Columbine", I searched for hours trying to find crime statistics to compare the US with other
countries but I was unable.
Also, Bitter2, are you the former mod bitter? If this questions is taboo, delete this post, but did something happen between you and the "authorities?"
Bitter2 December 1st, 2003, 10:31 AM

I haven't had my powers restored yet, but yes, I am he. Something did happen between me and the authorities, which I will hopefully tell you about at the end of December.
nbk2000 December 2nd, 2003, 02:18 PM

No way is that going to happen...
me234 December 3rd, 2003, 08:33 AM

So that's his name, you know he really speaks to me man. NOT A FUCKING CHANCE, he is a close-minded idiot, did you see when he gets the gun from the bank, pointing it around in public, a criminal offense
where I live, pointing it at people, with his FINGER ON THE DAMNED TRIGGER, that's like rule no.2, your finger doesn't touch the trigger unless you're about to shoot, what an unedumacated, self-important, naive,
ignorant, self-RIGHTEOUS, TWAT. And Oprah just swallowing every word he tells her, can nobody make their minds up for themselves anymore? It's just like the texas thing, people aren't questing authority like
they're supposed to be, how else do governments improve things is everyone lies on their backs and take up the ass all cmplacent like? QUESTION THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO. son of a
bitch, now I'm more pissed off than before. Hey Photonic I bet you that he got his stats for about a hundred or so people that he chose for the specifically for the purpose purpose, Former NRA, shit you'd think he
knew better, man I hope he reads this and gets pissed off. If this is post-whoring then I should get HED, but I don't care, I want people to read this, people should know better.
pornopete December 3rd, 2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by me234
did you see when he gets the gun from the bank, pointing it around in public, a criminal offense where I live, pointing it at people, with his FINGER ON THE DAMNED TRIGGER, that's like rule no.2, your finger
doesn't touch the trigger unless you're about to shoot, what an unedumacated, self-important, naive, ignorant, self-RIGHTEOUS, TWAT.
Dude, hes making a blatent mockery of U.S gun laws. The whole thing about getting a gun from a bank is showing how light U.S gun laws really are, and maybe him pointing the gun in the street with his finger on
the trigger is showing what peoples attitudes towards guns are in the U.S and as for uneducated you cant even spell the fucken word.

Pornopete,
No, he isn't mocking, he is fabricating lies!
If Moore really got that gun from that bank (which is possible) then he had to go to a gun dealer to collect it, 14 days later, then bring it back to the bank, and then go into the bank, roll film, then stage the scene as
he came back out.
It is a real shame that some-one with concealed carry, or a cop, didn't drop him on the spot. :mad:
Watch the scene where Charlton Heston gives the "speech of evil" carefully, and you will see that, after setting the scene, it cuts to the crowd. Then, it cuts back to Heston, wearing totally different clothes, 3000
miles and 7 months away! Most people miss that, as was Moore's intention.
Note that it isn't even a missile factory, but one for putting space rockets into space.
There's lots more on line. Moore lies... (http://www.google.com/search?q=moore+columbine+lies&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Oh, the first link? That goes to Moore's "refutation" of the claims. Read them carefully, as he uses the same tricks on that page as in the movie.
For example, where he derides people for saying the space rockets aren't military, cos they have "US AIRFORCE" written on them. Well, no shit. They aren't for the tooth fairy, are they? BUT they are NOT
missiles, as he claims!
Anyway, enough ranting.
Arkangel December 3rd, 2003, 06:10 PM

I think MM does talk some shit, but overall he is bang on.
I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum to most of the views here. I've read a few of his books, including the last one, and I went to see him in London on his launch tour.
He mentioned the fact that people had claimed the bank scene was fake, that he wouldn't have been allowed to do it. But the bank IS a licensed gun dealer, and can't you walk into a dealer and walk out with a gun
in the US - or basically what he did anyway?
Bowling for columbine was biased? Of course it was. Gun crime in the US is way out of proportion, and the point he's making is less about the fact that there are so many guns, but that the society is so fucked it
results in so many deaths.
In Switzerland, EVERY man has to have a gun at home, my mate's got a Heckler Koch G3 on top of his kitchen cupboard, but how much gun crime is there there? Er....fuck all.
He is making comments about society, and everyone here is getting pissy because you're all in the "Gun Lobby", same as I was in the UK when I had my pistols taken away after Dunblane. Don't let that blind you
to the sense he talks

It isn't what he says, it is the way he says it.
And no, there is a wait of (iirc) 7 days as a cooling of period under the federal Brady Act, on the purchase of a handgun.

Originally posted by nbk2000
No way is that going to happen...
What makes you say that ? I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Bitter2,
I seriously hope it isn't anything related to the forum.
If the (whoever) decided to do a sweep for forum members, how would we know? I suspect they would coordinate it globally, if they were really pissed.
Copied from the Daily Mirror:
Badat now faces a charge that he "unlawfully and maliciously conspired with Richard Reid and others unknown to cause by an explosive device an explosion likely to endanger life or cause serious injury to property
in the United Kingdom or elsewhere."
Reid, a former burglar from Brixton in south London, was overpowered by crew and passengers when he tried to ignite the explosives on board an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami in December, 2001.
The Islamic convert claimed he was a soldier involved in a religious war with the United States.
Badat's arrest was the most high-profile in a series of swoops by anti-terror police across central and southern England in the last week. More than 20 people have been arrested.
One of those, North African Noureddinne Mouleff, 36, was remanded in custody on Wednesday, charged under section 57 of the Terrorism Act 2000 which deals with suspects found with "an article in circumstances
which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that its possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism".
Police sources have said the "article" found was not explosives but have not given further details.
They took 20 guys off the streets, out of thier homes, etc. on suspicion, and no-one knows anything about the other 18!
The reason I post this, is take a look at the charges:
suspects found with "an article in circumstances which give rise to a reasonable suspicion that its possession is for a purpose connected with the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism".
he "unlawfully and maliciously conspired with Richard Reid and others unknown to cause by an explosive device an explosion likely to endanger life or cause serious injury to property in the United Kingdom or
elsewhere."
How horrifically woolly. You could arrest almost anyone on those charges, and keep them locked up for a week, without a phone call or a lawyer!
Just visiting this forum would be enough, if you entered into a conversation via the board!
And then you get gits like Mike Moore trying hard to get our few remaining rights broken so once they are, he can help drive the wedge in as far as he likes. And the worst thing is, he will feel happy that he did it,
and sleep well at night, because the condescending bastards in power think they know what is best for everyone!

Like "they" don't already know who we all are ?

there is a wait of (iirc) 7 days as a cooling of period under the federal Brady Act, on the purchase of a handgun
Jack's complete, he was given a rifle. Do you still have to wait 7 days for one of those?
And it IS what he says that pisses a lot of people off, largely because they are pretty contentious issues for the people he's talking about. For me, a lot of it is obvious, but then why the hell SHOULD he suggest
that we recycle more, not drive SUV's everywhere and all the rest of his eco/socio babble?
Anyone interested in a discussion based around his "7 questions for George Bush" at the begiining of his latest book?
(And Bitter, pleased to see you around! Are you anywhere PGP and up for a chat?)
tmp December 4th, 2003, 11:34 PM

Michael Moore is an asshole. He got an Academy Award for the "Best Documentary".
It should have been for "Best Propaganda" because Hollywood's elitist left love any
fabrication that promotes their agenda. Fuck him and Hollywood !

Sorry, never did post my PGP key and it's lost for good now. Not to worry, though. I would be happy to have a chat if you want. You should know my email address through the "other" forum, if not, ask one of the
UK moderators for it.
tmp December 6th, 2003, 02:38 AM

To my fellow FORUM members, you may find this link about "Bowling For Columbine"
useful. The author discusses the slick editing and deception techniques used in this
propaganda film. I read on the net somewhere that some video stores are putting
stickers with this link on the inside of the DVD jacket of the movie.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Michael Moore is a hypocrite millionaire who insults us in his book "Stupid White Men".
He takes pleasure in deriding the middle class who are the majority in the USA.
So he has 7 questions he wants to ask President Bush. I have 1 for Mr. Moore.
"Traitor, by which method do you want to be executed ?"
Arkangel December 6th, 2003, 10:30 AM

Ever heard the phrase "don't shoot the messenger boy". Just because you disagree with him, and he's got a public platform, that makes him a traitor? Surely he's free to say what the fuck he wants in the US - the
home of freedom! (Don't make me laugh:p)
I think there are far worse traitors than MM in the US, and most of them you'll find hanging round the whitehouse. But then that's a whole other thread isn't it!
And if you want to talk about "propoganda" why don't you mention the daily torrent of it on fox news and all the rest?
tmp December 6th, 2003, 02:35 PM

Arkangel, Michael Moore doesn't live in the same world as most of us do. He is truly
an elitist by any standard. I AM part of the "Gun Lobby" as you call me. I don't have
the luxury of living in a community or building with security guards who can protect
me from society's bad guys. Michael Moore is not a messenger. He is a
propagandist who acts against the interestsof those who live outside his sheltered
world. I view him and his elitist friends as traitors. You stated that your handguns
were taken away as a resullt of the Dunblane massacre.
An honest question:
Do you feel any safer ? I wouldn't !
pornopete December 6th, 2003, 04:25 PM
His films are not propaganda they are an attack against the propaganda produced by the U.S government. Stop protecting your stupid president and your puppet society.
IDTB December 6th, 2003, 06:14 PM

I must agree with pornopete. ;)
I have bowling for columbine somewhere on disc. Due to the debate does anyone want to view it?
(nice name by the way.)
chokingvictim78 December 6th, 2003, 07:28 PM

Micheal Moore is a fuckass. I wouldn't hate him so much if it weren't for the heavy editing of the Heston speeches, and comparing statistics that are years apart just to make it look like America has a high gun
crime rate. I don't care what your view is, as long as you can back it up without fabricating facts.
kurama guineu December 7th, 2003, 11:00 AM

After seeing that a link to show Michael Moore is a liar has been posted before, well.... i thought that giving Mr. Moore the chance to reply would be fine. At least the debate will be more fair, this is a link to a MM
letter responding to the accusations he has received for misrepresenting facts and lying in the movie/documentarie Bowling for Columbine. Enjoy the reading.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

"So, a whole host of gun lobby groups and individual gun nuts have put up websites where the smears on me range from the pre-adolescent (I'm a "crapweasel," and a "fat fucking piece of shit")."
I wonder if MM considers labelling anyone who disagrees with him as a "gun nut" and a "wacko" to be pre-adolecent smearing ? I guess not.
me234 December 18th, 2003, 12:45 AM

Pornopete, one thing man, I meant to spell it that way, haven't you ever heard any one say unedumacated, ( un-ed-u-ma-cated), as in "I'm the smart one, I've bin edumacated"
It's sarcasm. However, I do agree with you that peoples attitudes towards firearms are sadly just like that, good point.
TJTay89 December 18th, 2003, 06:40 PM

Moore is a dumbass, and I find it to be total bullshit that "bowling for columbine" is considered a Documentry. I mean he has the balls to edit "Moses" speach to make it look like Charlas Heston is an uncaring
asswhole.The way Moore just pulled numbers out of his ass is another thing that pisses me off.
As for the "cooling period" for rifles, I am pretty sure there is no cooling period for rifles, although there is a 7-14 day cooling period for handguns. It takes about thirty minutes of paper work, and a drivers lisense to
get your hands on a rifle. Atleast aslong as you do not have a felony.
KAROMESIS December 24th, 2003, 01:55 PM

AHHH .....michael 2 dinners moore,the very benchmark of journalistic integrity and fucking brilliance in reporting the issues. If you believe that first statement then you should go see the nice men in the white
coats and they will make it all better for you.;) I do believe his statistics are gotten from somewhere deep in the bowels of his most gigantic ass,mainly due to the fact that I have searched in vain to uncover any
basis for his statistics,which as megalomania said are "biased and one sided".end point I think the guy is a liberals wet dream and he sure as hell reports like one.
12Gauge December 26th, 2003, 12:26 AM

The scene with Moore walking out of the bank with a gun WAS staged. The operators of that bank have expressed extreme displeasure with the manner in which they were depicted in Mr. Moore's "documentary".
The film attempts to promote Mr.Moore's (who is a self proclaimed Marxist, BTW) ideals by deliberately distorting the actual facts of situations shown. Check out www.moorelies.com for details on many other
staged and/or fabricated bs he came up with.
America does have a (comparitively) high rate of crimes committed with firearms- however to state the reason for this is the availability of firearms is ludicrous (If you want to commit a crime or murder
someone, you will find a weapon). Here in Canada, knives are used in over 30% of murders-blunt objects are the #2 most used weapons in murders, with guns coming in a distant third. We have a billion dollar gun
registry, but no controls on steak knives, butcher knives, baseball bats or 2x4's. You will have a very hard time trying to convince me that "gun control" is about controlling crime or reducing access to weapons to
those bent on criminal activities. Guess what criminals do- they break the law. Shocking, isn't it? If criminals break the law (like say murdering someone), why do you think that making a law about something is
going to stop those, who by definition, break laws? You have been fed a liberal load of bullshit and ate it as though it was caviar...... shake the shit outta your head and seek the truth- for it truly IS out there.
The true origin of "gun control" is rooted in racism - ie: whites not wanting blacks to own firearms- and has morphed into a scheme to allow greater gov't control over all of us. Hitler's Nazi's really liked gun
control, too- it sure made the task of eliminating Jews much easier since they were unable to fight back.
Think about this for a minute-
If we accept that firearms might get into the hands of maniacal nutjob and that we should ban guns completely to prevent this (alhough that is impossible-for the same reasons that gun control doesn't work), and
this makes sense and is reasonable, why am I considered paranoid for wanting a gun to prevent that (possible) madman from shooting up my friends, family or even people I don't know?
stickfigure January 3rd, 2004, 07:21 AM

Con Control sin't about racism. It's about the subjation of classes. Back in the day Blacks occupied the lowest class so to be kept there gun-control towards them was instituted. Jews in Nazi Germany were
forced from the upper and middle classes to the lowest class, and weapons were taken away so they couldn't fight back. Communism is supposed to be a classless society so gun control keeps the people in line
when Red Army moves in.
The Gun Control Movement is being instituted by those who seek to seperate the classes in America. The Rich who by the way keep getting richer seek to keep the poor who keep getting poorer on the lower tiers of
society. But in America there is supposed to be like 600 Million guns right? Actually it's about 1.2 Billion with the Governament holding an equal share, split 50/50. You all seem to notice that the new gun laws only
want Police and the Military to have the guns right? Well those in power "the rich" seek to use the Government as there tool to disarm the poor and enslave them. The enslavement will be a willing enslavement,
taught through television and marketing to be in the best interest of the poor. The poor will be given everything, government healthcare, welfare, uniforms, houseing projects, sounds familiar right?
MM makes some good points about society but he seems to get lost in the fact that he's selling the same thing he's trying to warn people about. He's preying off of people's fears just like everyones else, he's just
pretends that he cares.
Pornopete: Liberalism will still make you a slave. Your tiny island may seem isolated from the world for now, but your leftist paradise will just attract more of the filth that is trying to infest our country. BTW when
the Big One hits California and it slids in the Pacific and starts it's continental drift towards you, just remember it'll be Karma...
tmp January 4th, 2004, 01:13 AM

Stickfigure, gun control's original American roots are racist. I recently saw some
old statutes, mainly from the South, that prohibited Negroes from owning guns.
The oldest I found was from Virginia, passed in 1640. This was only the beginning.
The gun-haters will use any excuse to ban and/or confiscate guns from those who
they look on as needing to be controlled by an elite class. Guns in the hands of
persons regarded as of a lower class scares the hell out of the elitists. As recently
as 1994(maybe earlier, correct me if I'm wrong), some big city mayors and at least
1 state wanted to ban gun ownership for anybody living in public housing.
Just another example of the elitists wanting to disarm a "lower class". Could it be
that the elitists fear that some day the so-called "lower classes" will recognize them
for what they are and remove them from power ?
Jacks Complete January 4th, 2004, 01:14 PM

tmp,
you are correct, nearly. It was the HUD (Houseing and Urban Development) department, which forced all new tennants in HUD owned housing to agree to random searches for guns as a condition of moving in, and
a ban on ownership of firearms if you lived in HUD houseing.
Of course, only poor people live in the HUD ghettos and due to the propaganda about how bad guns were in the hands of criminals, they managed to push it through. None of the poor could afford to mount a legal
challenge. I believe it was Cumo in charge at the time.
I don't know what the situation is like now.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > New UK Fireworks Laws
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View Full Version : New UK Fireworks Laws
arm November 30th, 2003, 04:21 PM

It seems that fireworks laws are getting stricter again in the UK.
From what I've heard three new rulings will be comming into effect soon. The first two make a little sense, the third is utter shit. The new restructions are as follows:
1. Fireworks are not to be sold to anyone under the age of 21. Ok fair enough but we all know how effective this will be....
2. Fireworks will only be able to be sold in the periods leading up to Nov 5th and New Years Eve. This would theoretically stop all out of season fireworks. But what about
people buying during these times and letting them off later. Also, what happens if someone wants to celebrate an important event (ie 21st/40/50th birthday) with just a little
display....
3. No firework should be louder than 120 dB. WHAT THE FUCK? This is just retarded. That sends all those lovely moroon rockets like superblitzknall down the pan doesnt it.
Now every firework is going to sound like a wet fart when it goes off...
Most of this is due to the actions of those god damned antifireworks lobbyists. This guys must soil their pants everytime something goes off with a bang, not to mention being
a bunch of boring old gits. Do they not realise not everybody gets off over stamp collecting or knitting?
The paranoia of this lot is mainly due to the actions of little punk-assed kids (i.e. putting fireworks through peoples letter boxes etc...)
End the end it all comes down to an age old axiom - someone misbehaves and everone else has to pay.
chemistr1 November 30th, 2003, 06:30 PM

This has been waiting to happen in the UK for years and it all boils back to the earlier law that banned bangers so kids being kids started taking the then/now? legal airbombs
apart and using these instead, they also realised that that the result was louder and that by mixing a few togeher you could form a small demolition charge, locally around here
telephone boxes and cars became a target with some really frightening results. The law wont work though as most fireworks sold here this year were illegal imports sold
cheaply and kids will never be happy with fireworks until they produce a decent bang so will just start disassembling legal fireworks again or rely on illegal imports. The
goverment as usual created the problem in the first place and will now use it as an excuse to pass more draconian laws on the legally abiding majority. (US again) Britain now
has more anti freedom laws than the former USSR but we are a free people lo.
scarletmanuka November 30th, 2003, 10:14 PM

I heard on the news last night that some lady was injured by a firework at a soccer match, do the new laws have anyhting to do with this?
VX December 1st, 2003, 09:52 AM

No, these laws have been in the pipeline for a while now.
The women who was injured at wolverhampton, was injured by a firework from a 'profesional' display, which, even if the law was in effect, would have been exempt anyway.
arm December 1st, 2003, 12:13 PM

Does Anyone know what happened to her in more detail?
vulture December 1st, 2003, 01:34 PM

Have you any idea how loud 120dB is? 80dB will cause hearing damage on permanent exposure, and 120dB is about 9 times as loud.
If you're within 5m of a 120dB sound source your eardrums will be turned into shreds.
PanMaster December 1st, 2003, 03:10 PM

are you on drugs?
150Db is the sound of a turbojet a few meters away, 120Db is a loud concert, 90Db is someone talking, 80Db is you stamping your feet or dropping a brick. Anything above
120Db isn't too good.
Rhadon December 1st, 2003, 03:28 PM

PanMaster, although you're right and although drugs aren't something bad in my opinion you will have to work on your behaviour in order to stay around here for long.
arm December 1st, 2003, 03:47 PM

Are you sure this is so? An average road drill produces sound at 110-120dB(SPL) at a distance of 1m and although prolonged exposure does cause hearing loss it does not
'shred' human eardrums. The threashold of pain is approximately 130-140 dB(SPL) where definite hearing loss will occur on a single exposure. Human eardrums pop at around
180 db(spl)
Also as you may know the decibel/Bels scale is a logarthmic one, where a difference of 10 db(SPL) represents a increase in intensity of x10. To human ears however the sound
appears to be approximately 2 times loader for every 10 dB(SPL). Thus 120 dB(SPL) is perceived as being (approximately) 16 times louder than 80 db(SPL).
All of this doesnt take into account that the sensitivity of human ears varies with frequency also.
The new regulations do not specify the distance from source. But since a lot of loud report rockets will be banned I am assuming that their measurements are fairly close to the
source. I can be fairly sure that a 2oz report rocket is most definately not 120 dB from a distance of ~300ft.
Jacks Complete December 2nd, 2003, 10:43 AM

Hmm...
120dB is too loud for me to handle without earplugs, but that's cos I already have hearing loss. If you expect 120dB, you will jump a bit, but it isn't too bad.
I bought a small digital sound level meter from Maplin, for 45, and it tells you all sorts of fun things. For example, your mobile phone is capable of putting out nearly 120dB
into your ear, from the earpeice. A blackpowder revolver is about 120 dB, measured from about 1 meter (though I think it is actually that the meter doesn't really pick up loud
noises that fast, as it failed to pick up 7.62mm gunfire from even close ranges.) From a Health and Safety law point of view, you have to provide hearing protection above
85dB, and 140 dB is the "never exceed" limit. 140dB is as loud as you can handle without good hearing protection, and it is actually tricky to get higher than this, as 140dB is
the sound pressure level equivalent of a hard vacuum!
Things like jet engines, shotguns and foghorns are all louder because they actually push mass around with a net flow. A speaker cannot do this, as if it tries to "pull" the air
harder than 140dB, it just means the air cannot move that fast, and it won't get any louder. Strangely, you can get to something like 230dB in water, as it is less compressible,
so letting you transfer more energy into it. Kind of like a heavier bullet at the same speed.
The best sounders on the market can do about 135dB, and they tend to be peizo sound bombs. Some people get really disorientated by them, and can't even see straight. The
power needed to get high pressure levels at higher frequencies is lower, so most alarms tend to be up at high frequencies, rather than down low, where they feel like your guts
are going to fall out.
Has anyone posted stuff on Infrasound weapons?
arm December 2nd, 2003, 11:02 AM

Yeah, I think a shotgun is around the 140 dB(SPL) level. Everytime I fire one without ear muffs I go deaf for about 5 seconds (All I can here is a loud ringing).
The loudest thing I've heard was when 2-3g of fulminating powder exploded about 3-4m away from me (inside the kitchen!!!!). All I actually heard was KABOO.....then silence.
Both my eardrums were perforated. It took around 24hrs for my hearing to return to a usable level and a week for them to get back to normal. The blast was so loud that it
shook all the dust off the backs of the cupboards onto the worktop. I actually found the whole being stone-deaf experience kind of pieceful, like the world had gotten very
quiet all of a sudden - very strange.
The only reason I was preparing that quantity of yellow powder was that I did not believe that such an innocuous set of chemicals could be that powerful. Just goes to show -
dont be a prick like me, always start small!
Anthony December 5th, 2003, 01:29 PM

Logically, the level would be taken from the instructed operating distance of the firework. For ground effects, this would be the recommended retiring distance (e.g 5m, 25m
etc).
For air effects, it could again be the retiring distance, which would actually be the diagonal distance from the "retired" observer to the firework in the air.
I believe the thing about mobile phones, I find a ringing phone held to your ear a little painful.
arm December 5th, 2003, 01:58 PM

Logically, the level would be taken from the instructed operating distance of the firework. For ground effects, this would be the recommended retiring distance (e.g 5m, 25m
etc).
Thats what I would have thought, but since report rockets around the 2oz of flash mark are going to be banned it seems that they are measuring a lot closer. A 2oz rocket is
fucking loud, but it sure isnt 120 dB. Either way, we're still getting fucked over.
tmp February 6th, 2004, 03:12 PM

To get an idea of fireworks laws in the U.S. read my 02/04/04 post under
the "here we go again" thread. I don't know about the laws in the U.K.
but it would be interesting to compare them to ours.
As for sound levels, I learned my lesson the hard way. On my 21st

birthday, I purchased my first handgun - a .44 MAGNUM. I fired it
without the benefit of hearing protection, being the ignorant dumbass I
was almost 25 years ago. The sound level by that instant blast can go
up to 146 dBa depending on the strength of the round used. This puts
it on par with some centerfire rifles. I have permanent hearing loss to
this day(about -40 dB in the mid-range). I soon learned to use earplugs
and earmuffs, but the damage was done. Some of the more powerful
centerfire rifles(7.62mm and higher) approach or in some cases exceed
160 dBa. With them I definitely put the earplugs in !
Before the 1966 ban, M-80's, cherry bombs, ashcans, and blockbusters
were commonly available in the U.S.. The noise they make is roughly
equal to a 12-gauge shotgun using 3 inch shells.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Does anyone know whats
h a p p e n i n g t o m y account?
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Blackhawk D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 04:58 AM

B l i n d r e e p e r a s k e d m e to place this here because he can't. The below is what he asked m e to post
-----------------------------------------
I h a v e n o i d e a w h a t h a s h a p p e n e d t o m y account, but I can log in fine. When I go to any of the sub sections of the forum it
says there have been no posts in the last 1000 days. I
also get this message when I try to ed it m y profile:
vBulletin Message
You do not h ave permission to access this page. This could be due to on e of several reasons:
1 Y o u d o n o t h a v e p e r m ission to access the page that you were trying to. Are you trying to edit som eone else's post or trying
to access adm inistrative features? Che ck that you are allowed to perform this action in the Forum Rules.
2 If you are trying to post, the adm inistrator may have disabled your account, or it m ay be awaiting activation.
Logged in user: blindreeper [logout]
I a m on broad band if that he l p s . I d o n ' t t h i n k m y I P h a s c h a n g e d a t a l l t h o u g h . I f I h a v e b e e n b a n n e d f o r s o m e u nknow

reason please let me know. I will try in a couple of hours or days to see if it is alright.
megalomania D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 01:25 PM

That's not what you g et when banned, that's what you g et when you don't accept the cookie that verifies you are logged in. Are
you blocking the cookie? You do need it, you will log in fine, but as soon as you try to view a section that is what you will see
(like you are not logged in).
Nihilist D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 09:37 PM

It also happens to me whenever I change my email address(that is, whenever I change it on the boards, not when I make a
new account som ewhere).
static_firefly D e c e m ber 2nd, 2003, 02:07 AM

Blindreeper just asked me to post this.
I d i d c h a n g e m y e m a il in m y profile to blindree per@xmail.net instead of blindthug@hotm ail.com so how do I g o a b o u t

changeing it back if I can't access the user CP page? Can you do it m e g a l o m a n i a p l e a s e ?
metafractal D e c e m ber 2nd, 2003, 03:26 AM

I h a d t h e s a m e problem . I think it was Anthony who was kind enough to help me. Tell him to check his account at
blindreeper.xmail.net for the verification em ail. Then follow the instructions there and his account will be reactivated.
blindreeper D e c e m ber 2nd, 2003, 04:38 AM

Brilliant! (Grinch voice )
Yay I am back. Sorry for being a dum b a s s , I s h o u l d h a v e c h e c k e d m y m ail. Anyway its all working now!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Different coloured iron oxid e?
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View Full Version : Different coloured iron oxide?
Sonny Jim D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 01:53 PM

I've recently preapred a batch of Iron Oxide via the elextrolysis of iron, and I'm confused. After emptying the cell, I
blowtorched the dried gunk in order to convert it into Fe2O 3, but in two different sessions. The thin g is, the final pro duct from
e a c h h e a t i n g s e s s i o n h a s e n d e d u p a s l i g h t l y d ifferent colour. One is slig htly darker than the other, but lighter than it was
before heating. Each batch was heated until it gave off no more gas.
Is this the same chemical? An d if so, how com e the colour is different?
mongo blongo D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 04:19 PM

I did m a k e a t h r e a d a s k i n g t h e v e r y s a m e q u e s t i o n s o m e t i m e ago because it co nfused the shit out of me too :).
I have since found out that it is the crystal size that cha nges the color. It's because on one of your batches you gave it more
heat or it took longer to dry than the other.
They make use of this in the pigment industry. They can produce all kinds of color like yellow,red,orange,etc by cha nging the
size of the crystal. Th ey do this by bubbling air through Iron II sulphate solution which will precipitate out iron oxide. They use
what are kno wn as se ed crystals for the newly forming crystals to latch onto and they mimic the shape and size of the seed
crystals. So if they wa nted a yellow pigm ent they throw in some yellow iro n oxide crystals to start it off.
The crystals are extremely sm all so yo u could not change the co lor by grinding the crystals.
Seriously dude you should try another way of m a k i n g F e 2 O 3 ! : )

You live in the UK so you could easily find some sulphate of Iron from a garden center or B&Q and s o m e a m m o n i a f r o m
hyper-value.
D i s s o l v e a s m u c h i r o n s u l p h a t e a s y o u c a n i n s o m e hot water an d a d d s o m e a m m onia and filter the green\blue precipitate and
dry it (it's Iron hydroxide which will get oxidized by the air into Fe2O3). Much cheaper and less tim e c o n s u m i n g a n d y o u c a n
m a k e l i k e 7 0 0 g a t i m e.
I hope this h elps :)
Sonny Jim D e c e m ber 1st, 2003, 07:03 PM

Thanks very much. That's cleared a great deal up, and I'll be su re to try that m e t h o d y o u m e n t i o n e d . I w a s u s i n g t h e
electrolysis m e t h o d b e c a u s e I h a v e a q uired a DC converter that has quite a weak power output, but can run for as long as you
leave it switched on. Then throw in the multitud e of iron junk I have 'borrowed' from the college tech block and it seem e d t h e
m ost convenient way.
Adm i t t a d e l y t h o u g h , I d i d n o t k n o w a b o u t t h e m e t h o d y o u s u g g e s t e d , a n d i t s o u n d s a m uch better idea to me. Tha n k s a g a i n .

:D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Perm a n g a n a t e S y n t h e s i s
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View Full Version : Permanganate Synthesis
Zeitgeist D e c e m ber 2nd, 2003, 07:02 AM

I Know there is already a thread but i'm not interested in using KClO3, if i could g et KClO 3 why bother??
Rather than reacting in a crucible, i wanted to d o it in aqueous solution:
Form MnCl2 from M n O 2 a n d H C l
(Hang on, i can't balance that yet, doe s Cl2 form ? or OH- ?)
Oxidise with H2O2, and add a K or Na salt to get the product?
W ill this work? I think it should.
D o e s $ 6 5 A U sound alright for 5L 50% Technical H2O2 or am i getting ripped off?
Thanks.
Hang-Man D e c e m ber 2nd, 2003, 11:22 AM

let me check. No. it dosn't work. MnCl2 + H202 + K(NO 3) = not purple = not K(MNO4)
Zeitgeist Decem ber 2nd, 2003, 08:53 PM

I thought it could be done sim ilar to this,
http://www.rhodium .ws/chemistry/potassium .dichrom ate .html
C o u l d a n y s i m ilar technique work?
blindreeper D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 01:51 AM

I think that is a dam n fine price for 5L of 50% H2O 2. Oxyplus is about $12 for 500ml (It is technical grade) and the 5L oxyplus
for me is $90. So if you can get it for that price go for gold!
me234 D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 02:34 AM

W hat's the exchange rate for U s to AUssie dollars?
xyz D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 05:24 AM

http://www.xe.com /ucc/ <-------- USE THIS FOR EXCHANGE RATES
$65 is about right for 5L of 50 % H2O2, that's h ow m uch I paid for 5L of Oxyplus of the sam e concentration (50% H2O2).
Zeitgeist D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 09:08 PM

H a n g o n , K M n O 4 will oxidise H2O2, so this can't possibly work, can it. I n eed a stronger oxidant, right?
nitric63 D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 09:58 PM

KMnO 4 is not capable of oxidizing H2O 2 from what I understand . It is a
catalyst that causes H2O2 to decompose at a high rate though.
blindreeper D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 10:10 PM

http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/km no.htm
There is a reaction with KMnO4 and high concentrated H2O2
"On the topic of potassium pe rm anganate, it should also be mentioned that the reaction with hydrogen peroxide, particularly
at high concentrations (50%+), is EXTREMELY violent an d has been used to power turbopu m p s a n d r o c k e t e n g i n e s a s t h e
KMnO 4 d e c o m p o s e s i n t o O 2 a n d M n 3 O 4 , w h i c h t h e n g o e s o n t o d e c o m p o s e t h e H 2 O 2 i n t o O 2 and H2O, with the evolution o f
enough heat to turn the entire batch into a blast of steam."
I have done this on many occasions and when the H2O2 hits the KMnO4 a sm all pop/bang is heard and a plume of steam and
O2 is shot out like an explosion.
Zeitgeist D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 01:45 AM

Yeah, i've done that before to o, but never with really concentrated H2O2....... That'll be something to try next week
D o e s a n y o n e k n o w h o w p u r e t h e M n O 2 from batteries is, that'll probably be the starting point for this exercise. It'll be
dissolved in HC l, seperating the graphite residue
Mn(2+) + 4H2O --> MnO4- + 8H(+) + 5e-
2e- + H2O 2 --> 2O H -
I know H(+) is really H3O (+), but for simplicity......

Add the reactions, add the spectators and balance everything, and i came up with :
5 H 2 O 2 + 2MnCl2 + 2KO H --> 2KMnO4 + 4HCl + 4H2O
S o u n d g o o d ? I d o n ' t h a v e a n y K O H atm , so i'll try for NaMnO 4 when the H2O 2 arrives
blindreeper D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 02:52 AM

W on't work, well if it did the KMnO 4 would react with the HCl to foom Cl2 from this reaction
16 HCl + 2 KMnO4 -> 5 Cl2 + 8 H2O + 2 KCl
W ould it not just be easier to buy KMnO 4?

If i can find KMnO 4, i'll certain ly just buy it
About how m uch does it cost you?
Mainly i just want to try the synthesis to see if it can be done
(There is a g ood place near here i just found specialisin g in Agricultural and pool chem icals, bulk com mercial cleaning products
etc. I'd say they can get m ost things, but i'm n o t g a m e t o a s k a bout too m any things at once. The next sh ot will probably be
HNO 3, i'll try other places for the KMnO 4
The HCl isn't produced fast enough for that rea ction to consume all the KMnO4, a nd excess hydroxide will easily take care of it,
but could also be hard to seperate from the product.

I pay about $10 for 1 kg. I think better than any synthesis you could do...
0EZ0 D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 05:47 AM

I d o n ' t s e e h ow you could produce KMnO4 in any usable quantity via a sim ilar me thod derived from the dichromate synth on
rhodium . Plenty of places sell high purity KMnO 4 suitable for synthesis. To nam e a few try an anim al supplies warehouse or an
agricultural chem ical/hardware store. The highe r purity is usual found in products intended for use in veterinary practices.
If it's just for bragging rights then m aybe a search on industrial processe s for the m anufacture of KMnO 4 m a y p r o v i d e s o m e
useful inform a t i o n . S p e n d i n g a b o u t 3 0 m ins se arching and refining you should co me up with a few gems.
H a v e y o u g u y s d o n e y o u r h o m ework?
Technical grade (50%) H2O2 at anything over $10 AU a liter is p ricey. Even at tha t price the seller gets m o r e t h a n a r e a s o n a ble
profit. Last I checked a 5 liter black po ly container of food grade (better than tech supposedly) 50% Hydrogen Peroxide was
about $30 AU. Most industrial places order it in massive poly drums and repackage with a huge m ark-up in price. Oxyplus is
one fine rip-off.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Sound in relation to depth of a
charge of APAN
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O k I a m abo ut to show m y lack of exp erience when it com e s t o d e t o n a t i o n s b u t h e r e g o e s . I h a v e f o u n d a u s e d c o l d p a c k a t a
rock climbing center which contains am monium nitrate and have activated the AN. I am left with 13 0g of AN.
Since this is the first tim e I have ever accually had AN in a decent am o u n t a n d k n own how to dry it properly and store it for it to
remain dry, I have decided to do a 150g APAN. Not m uch compa red to what som e p e o p l e h a v e d o n e a r o u n d h e r e .
Here is m y question. I have just checked out m y old blasting pit and dug it out to a depth of 50cm . I p l a n t o d e t o n a t e t h e
c h a r g e h e r e u n d e r g r o u n d . T h e b o t t o m of the pit is sandstone and all around it is com pacted dirt. If I bury the charge under
this with about 10cm of extra m aterial onto to m ake it 60cm under ground, would I still get the thunderous boom ? I a s k
b e c a u s e I a m d e t o n a ting it in the m iddle of a 9 hectare property and I'm worried about sound.
Do you think I will just get a b ig upthrust of dirt when it goes off with a deep thud or a big boom and losts of dirt thrown
skyward? Or just a little pop of dirt up? I don't think I'll get the pop because when I detonated a film can of AP 50cm down it
m a d e t h e p o p and hardly m oved the dirt.
I know there are lots of questions about this but I am a newbie when it com es t o bl a s t i ng.
xyz D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 05:16 AM

OK, 150g of APAN will probably be louder 60cm underground than it will b e above ground with no confinem ent, sam e g o e s f o r
all low VoD AN based com ps.
I h a v e d e t o n ated 120g of APAN at app rox the same depth and the blast was heard several kilometres away at my friend's
house. A 120g charge above ground could only be heard for a few hundred metre s. Both charges were inside 1" PVC pipe of
a p p r o x 2 0 c m in length and had been lightly pressed with a broom stick.
Underwater is the way to go if you want impressive results with reduced noise.
P . S . Y o u d o n 't need to activate AN for use in APAN, you only nee d to m ake it into a powde r (doesn't have to be very fine
either). Activating your AN is o nly useful if you want a sensitized ANFO m ix (better contact between fuel and AN) with out having
to grind the AN into a fine powder.
Snipie D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 02:18 PM

I ve d e t o n a t e d s e v e r a l 1 0 0 a n d 5 0 0 g r a m charges of PNNM at 6 0 t o 8 0 c m d e e p , a n d e v e r y t i m e there was very little noise
(and a big crater, between 40 and 90 cm in diam eter :D ).
B a s e d o n t h e d a t a p r o v i d e d b y xyz, I t h i n k t h a t t h e V O D really m a k e s t h e d i f f e r e n c e , b e cause th e n o i s e o f m y e x p e r i m e n t s

wasn t a u d i b l e a t 2 0 0 m .
xyz D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 04:36 AM

W hat I was trying to say was that in my experience, AN com ps are louder when buried due to the e xtra confinem ent.

But the sound that was heard over the 2km away was a dull thud not the thunderous boom right? I activate d m y AN cause I
was bored. I got 2.5L of 100% NM today so ma ybe I should go ANNM with a 5g AP cap?
Guerilla D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 11:22 AM

Burying the charge under ground greatly increases the blast effe ct, but the intensity of the sound will be reduced as the sound
wave goes through th e m e d i u m a n d g e t s a b s o r b e d ( c h a n c e s t o h e a t e n e rgy). Lower sound waves get through m ore easily
t h o u g h , t h e r e f o r e i t s h e a r d a s a d e e p b o o m . Snow acts surprisin gly effectively as a sound absorber btw, but maybe its not an
option in your area. ;)
W hen 130g ANNM was detonated at around that depth(hard clay soil), a fairly loud and deep BUM resulted and earth was
raining down.. it surely was he ard in a radius of several hundred meters but in longer distances it becomes hard to locate the
det site accurately...
5g is more than enough, even 1g will suffice.
Efraim_barkbit D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 02:07 PM

I think you should use at least 5g in your det if you go with ANNM, I only had faliures with smaller dets. I usually use about 10-
15g.
I set off ~120g APAN sitting in a container in th e open, un top of a steel plate, and its thundering b o o m was loud as hell,
echoing several tim e s .
It m a k e s n o s e n s e t o m e whe n xyz says that its louder if dug it down half a m eter in the ground.
I wont believe it until I have heard it with my own ears. If I have tim e this weekend, I m a y s e t o f f s o m e Hgs of APAN,
then Ill kno w
Anthony D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 03:55 PM

I buried 2kg of ANNM 45-60cm down in clay and retired ~150m the blast was a dull thud and actually quite unimpressive. 65gm
of APANAL I had done before in the op en in the sam e location was much louder.
I certainly wouldn't say that burying increased sound! I know for a fact that the same 2kg above ground would have been
heard for m iles, as a it was someone a few hundred yards away probably wouldn't have given it a second thought
Its probably 400m to the nearest house around my pit so I think it will be fine. I like the dull thud or "BUM" sound as you
describe it. I just got turned of HE when I set off a film c a n o f A P a b o v e g r o u n d a n d i t w a s a l o u d t h u n d e r o u s b o o m . B e c a u s e
the pit in in between a valley. Accually it has hills on all sides and its sort of the g ully in th e m i d d l e , t h e s o u n d e c h o s o f f e a c h
of the "walls" and ma kes it go for ages. So I think I'll be trying som e 130g of ANNM soon. But it will take m e 3 days to m a k e
AP and dry it because its raining and will be raining for the next couple of days :m a d :

Actually the sound he ard was a boom, not a du ll thud.
The soil that it was in was very hard and dry (this means it wouldn't absorb sound well), and although the charge wa s under the
ground, the top was not entirely covered over a s the charge was fused with a sparkler and it neede d a little oxygen to burn.
T h i s m eant that a hole about 1" in diam eter had to lead from the charge up to the surface of the ground.
So those 2 reasons are probably why it was so loud, I would go for underwater or dam p/muddy soil for your first tests.

I t h a s b e e n r a i n i n g a w e e k h e re so the soil is wet and m uddy, perfect for sounds muffling :) May try out m y new prim ary as a
det :p
0EZ0 D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 06:51 AM

I think you a re in for a surprise if you think tha t wet earth is going to pro vide m o r e s o u n d d a m p e n ing than dry earth. W et
s p o n g y e a r t h ( m u d o r a l m o s t m u d ) h a s a tendency to burst upward quite fantastically even with sm all charges. It traps alot of
gas when the charge detonates and as the gas bubble rises to the surface it bursts apart quite nastily. There is quite a margin
for the sound to reach the surface with still alot of intensity. Bury your charge very deep if you choose this type of soil.
The best type of earth for avo iding any spectacular productions of noise is m oist to dry po rous earth that tends to sink when
walk e d o n . S o m ething sim ilar to the soil in an aerated garden bed or plo wed paddock. All high frequencies of noise are cut out
and you are left with a deep sound that is not very audible outside 100 meters at the m ost, when dealing with sm all charges.
Gas is not much of a problem if buried at the right depth. It is absorbed by the surrounding dirt and at m ost it will only lift the
surface soil a few inches as a little of the gas escapes (the soil just jumps, m ore from the shock wave reaching the surface).
You can bury charges closer to the surface with porous dry earth than wet soil with out rupturing the surface.
You can get similar results in noise reduction when you bury your charge in tinder-dry crusty soil that has not been packed
down. Packed earth tends to crack and shatter at the surface and burst u pward. All the escape routes for gas are the same as
above. The surface should stay quite intact still if buried appropriately as above.
W ithout an in depth descriptio n of your intende d site of detonation it makes it a little hard to give you any good
recom m endations. Points like soil density, water saturation, m ain soil constituent (sand, clay etc.), vegetation (grass and plant
roots) are key factors in determ ining the outcom e . F o r e x a m ple, grass gives soil quite a good surface structure that is m ore
resistant to rupture than just straight soil.
W ater would be by far the best as stated. It is the easiest to pla nt your charge in at a reasonable depth. It gives you som e
room for error, unless the charge floats on you:eek:. The sound produce d is m inimal too(low frequency/bass), at reasonable
d e p t h s ( 1 m eter and up, much deeper with x00 gm s). Although It's not ve ry good for the fish as water is a very conductive
m e d i u m for a shock wave:D. You can hear the hashing sound of it as it moves through the water.
AN based com posites are very powerful when it com es to gas production. It's low VoD only means that it's brisance is not useful
for any shattering or cutting effect. Exceptions are som e o f t h e b i n a r i e s l i k e K i n e p a k ( e v e n though it is at the very low end when
considering cutting power). Be careful not to underestim ate their power if you are intending to use them . Even with smallish
a m ounts.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > R adio Match 2
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Cricket D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 09:27 AM

Surely som eone has had to find this before? http://www.radio-match.com /tech.htm A little expensive, but if you can't m a k e
one what are you to do? Com m ents?
Bert D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 10:30 AM

I've handled that unit at trade shows. It will do the job, but it's a bit limited in range. Whe n we bought our wireless firing
system , we chose this system (http://www.pyrom ate.com/gigalinkwirelessfiringsystem .htm) instead as we wanted greater range
and more hits. Bought ours last August, no com plaints, used it on 3 shows last summ er.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C hem Software
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From time to tim e here, i hear m ention of prog ram s which will instantly calculate eqim o l a r a m o u n t s o f d i f f e r e n t c o m p o u n d s ,
and all kinds of stuff, so, what is a good program of this type, preferally available as freeware or shareware?
Thanks.

Could have gone in links and literature...
S e c o n d p a g e of links and literature. Search some more!

I didn't feel it was a good idea to post a new topic, let alone a question, outside of W C just yet.
T h a n k s , A l s o i did a search but i don't think that turned up.
aikon May 3rd, 2004, 12:42 PM

W hile searching for chem program s i found a website called "Tom 's free Chem istry Software". I don't know if you already know
about this site.
Here's the link: http://allserv.ugent.be/~tkuppens/chem/

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > h e x a m ine dinitrate and
nitromethane
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nuclearattack D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 06:12 AM

hi
today i received 1 lite r of nitro m e t h a n e a n d i ' m going to m ake some explosive with it.
i w a s t h i n k i n g a b o u t h e x a m ine dinitrate, i know that it is oxygen deficent but if i poor in it some nitromethane i thin k it will be
powered and sensitized.
i'm going to detonate it with a plasm a d e t o n a t o r m ade with a big conden sator. i don't kno w the right amount of nitrom e t h a n e i
have to put but i will try with sm all am o u n t l i k e i n k i n e p a k .
i will use that kind of detonator because i failed m a k i n g AP, i don't know why but the crystals didn't form , only a very small
powder form e d a n d i t i s u s e l e s s b e c a u s e i t i s s u s p e n d e d i n t h e s o l u t i o n a n d i t i s i m p o s s i b le to filter.
i will try with 9% of h2o2 and h2so4 at 38% instead of the 12% HCL. if this will no t work i don't what to do!
n i t r o m e t h a n e + h e x a m ine din itrate + allum iniu m powder...i think this stuff will wo rk well.

W hy bother m aking exotic things like HDN just to use in a mix? You m ay as well use the NM with the alum inium powder and
s o m e a m i n e s f r o m s o m e s o r t o f e x p o x y g l u e s u c h a s t i t a n b o n d l i k e A x t h a s d o n e. This is a bit harsh on the old pocket but if
you want to try it go for it. I happen to have som e HDN made up right now in a little am ber bottle, Al powder and NM. But I
d o n ' t h a v e e n o u g h H D N t o m a k e a n y d e c e n t a m m ount of this explosive. My detonator will probably be bigger than the charge
:p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Google knows best?
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streety D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 12:37 PM

G o t o g o o g l e (http://www.google.com) , type in 'm iserable failure', hit the I'm fee ling lucky button and prepare to laugh.
Anthony D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 12:52 PM

S o m e o n e ' s b e e n s c r e wing around to exploit Google's search algorithms :)
megalomania D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 02:43 PM

I wonder ho they m a n i p u l a t e d this? Ne ither of the words m i s e r a b l e o r f a i l u r e e v e n a p p e a r o n t h e p a g e . S o m e b o d y a t g o g g l e
itself must have done this. A political comm e n t p e r h a p s ?
W ill search engines som e d a y b e r e g u l a t e d t o p revent informatio nal abuse? If for example in the future our prim ary source of
information on businesses and politics is web d ependant will there be som e s o r t o f b a l a n c e d r e g u l a t e d s y s t e m t o e n s u r e
nobody manipulates the data? An interesting thought to ponder...
wrench352 D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 03:22 PM

D o e s a n y o n e r e m e m ber around the time of the "election"the sam e thing happened if you searched 'stupid motherfucker' or
s o m e t h i n a l o n g t h e s a m e line s.I wonder if its the same guy doin it?
arm D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 04:15 PM

I dont think its a fix to google itself.
G o o g l e ' s ' P a g e R a n k ' s y s t e m works by rating pages on the number of lin ks pointing to a specific website. I believe that people
are m a n i p u l a t i n g t h e p a g e r a n k s y s t e m b y h a v i n g l a r g e num bers of links on their websites/blogs titled 'miserable failure'
poin ting the whitehou se website.
zeocrash D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 05:37 PM

on that note try "french military victories" and "weapons of m ass destruction" and hit the i'm feeling lucky button
Jacks Complete D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 05:59 PM

I don't think this is som eone playing tricks...
Look at all the articles that are calling him a miserable failure. T hey all link to that page. So google associates the words with
him , b e c a u s e s o m e many other high quality sites do!
Either that, o r s o m e o n e a t g o o g l e i s g o i n g t o g e t a f r e e 2 5 0 y e a r vaction in Cuba next week!
arm D e c e m ber 5th, 2003, 06:08 PM

God, the "weapons of m ass destruction" one is fucking hilarious.
EP D e c e m ber 6th, 2003, 12:43 AM

This explains how it's done:
http://searchenginewatch.com /sereport/article.php/2164611
Nobody at google has anything to do with it, it's not a left-wing conspiracy by whoever owns google...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > m y g o d i r e m e m ber ironwarlock
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SoulShadow D e c e m ber 6th, 2003, 02:09 AM

wow, i remeb er starting that thread forever ago when i used to be ironwarlock, ya ya, i know alot of you think im bullshitting but
its true, i still have that email address at hotm ail!! (well before they started wanting to charge m e for it) i just think its a trip
that i found m y old posts floating arou nd this forum
Mr Cool D e c e m ber 11th, 2003, 09:28 AM

????

C a n I s e c o n d t h a t m otion? . . . . ???

i think i sould also add a very large W HAT THE FU C K
vulture D e c e m ber 11th, 2003, 01:11 PM

Postwhores galore!
So I'll have my fair share too:
W TF?
EDIT: W T F , i s t h a t s u p p o s e d t o b e h u g e ?
EDIT2: Ah, bit tinkering with the HTML tags and that's m ore like it...;)
EDIT3: I found out wtf he's talking about. Mega reposted som e archived topics of improvised weapons that were started by
him . Search for Ironwarlock, not as m e m b e r b u t in the subject field.
But still, W TF is the purpose o f this thread then? Trying to show off with your 733t bertopics?

you cant really post whore in the water cooler as the posts arent added to your total count
but while i'm here
<whore>i'll say that it's all very confusing</who re>

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 6.00 for a lb of Citric Acid?
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flashpoint D e c e m ber 6th, 2003, 07:30 PM

Is that a good price for U S? I'm searching around and I found a source that sells it for 6.00, just checking to see if that's a
good price.
Mumble D e c e m ber 6th, 2003, 10:01 PM

It's not horribly high, but it com e s s o m u c h c h e aper. Just look a little mo re. You can find it down to $1 a pound, ma y b e l e s s .
I t ' s u s e d f o r s o a p m anufacture, look into that for some cheaper prices.
The A narch D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 02:01 AM

W ell... shit. I bought 1 ounce for $3 from s o m e b a k i n g s t o r e .

W ell who needs a pound of citric acid anyway :rolleyes:

A lem on tree ... :) . W e l l , s o m e o n e w h o m a k e s a l o t o f H M T D o r i n t e n d s t o h a v e t h e s u p p l i e s t o l a s t a l o n g t i m e .
al93535 February 17th, 2004, 06:31 PM

I found a pound of Citric for 2.50. Gets cheaper per lb/ if you order m ore though. I got it from C edar Vale Natural health. Its
100% pure, and works great. I know they also have a website and you can order it on-line , but will be paying shipping charges
then.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Am m onium Dichrom ate
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chemoleo D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 02:13 AM

hi guys,
I would have posted this in the L.E. section, but then I thought surely som eone is going to rape me on the triviality of the
subject.
So here it en ds up in the wate r cooler section :( .
Anyway... it actually * is* trivial...
b u t I m a n a g e d t o g e t h o l d o f s o m e of the above, (NH4)2Cr2O7, a beautiful crystalline orange-red substance (from a
photography supplier). It burns very nicely, liberating a com para bly huge am ount of green C r2O3. (Its well known in school
e x p e r i m ents, kinda the first you get to see... called the chrom ate volcano).
Anyway, I discovered that the container of this had the very distinct 'explosive' sign on it... and they wouldnt put it there
without a rea son. After all, NH4NO 3 never has it, although it is probably more powerful in term s of explosive force than the
dichromate.
So.... that brings m e to the question....
Did anyone actually try to set this off? Amm onium dichromate? The label blatantly indicates that this is possible. But despite a
search within this forum I couldnt find advice/help.
Anyone got more experience on it, tha n j u s t m a k i n g c h r o m a t e v o l c a n o e s ?
chemoleo

Be careful with that shit... Like all Cr (VI), it's a potent Carcinogen
If you m illed it down, you m ight be able to use it as an oxidant in general pyro com positions, it's also used in C hlorate
electrolysis cells and as a stabiliser for Tovex, am ong other things. Isn't it also added to comps co ntaining fine flake Mg to
prevent corrosion?
chemoleo D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 04:55 AM

sure .... it's toxic like all the Cr (VI) ion s... btw ever saw that m ovie with julia roberts, Erin Brockvich??
I have no intention of using it in pyro m ixtures, as it ha s a perfect OB anyhow, i.e.
(NH4)2Cr2O 7 --> Cr2O 3 (green) + N2 + 4H2O .
Hence you couldnt contribute m uch by using it in pyro m ixes.. th ey are likely goin g to be m ore powerful anyhow....
All I wondere d whether that explosive sign was merited... and whether/how I could elicit that particular property :D

Just because i t h a s a n e x p l o s i v e s i g n o n i t d o e s n ' t m e a n it can detonate. NM only has a flamm able liquid on it and it can
e x p l o d e l i k e A N a s y o u m entioned. They tend to over rate things, AN generally has an oxidizer symbol on it but is a poor
o x i d izer when it com es to pyro com ps. I think this m a y b e t h e s a m e with your dichromate...

I agree with blindreeper, I have seen some aerosol cans of hairspray with the "Danger, Ex p l o s i v e " l o g o o n t h e m ( n o , n o t t h e
flam m a b l e l o g o , t h e e x p l o s i v e o n e ) . T his was just because the can will burst if he ated :rolleyes: .
And to think, pyrodex is only classed as a "Flamm a b l e S o l i d " , d a m n these classification system s are screwed up...
mongo blongo D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 01:46 PM

Yea they are screwed up! W here I work we have lab grade jars of amm onium nitrate which only have an oxidizer sym bol on it
and no explosive sign, Lead nitrate as only irritant. :rolleyes:

Am m o n i u m d i c h r o m a t e i s l i s t e d a s a n e x p l o s i v e c o m p o u n d b e c a u s e i t i s m ore shock sensitive than dinitrobenzene. (that's the
official definition)
Anyways, shock sensitivity relates to the decom position reaction here, no t a detonation.
To be short: If you hit it hard enough with a ha m m er it'll decompose in the usual fashion.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > How to calculate critical m a s s
for fissionable m aterials?
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Xanax D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 09:59 AM

Yes, anyone who knows how to calculate critical mass for fissionable materials?
And also, what is the critical m ass for Uranium -235 & Plutonium -239. A search on the net, every page gives a different value
for it. Som eone who knows a thrustable source?
fubar D e c e m ber 7th, 2003, 02:23 PM

I dont know how to calculate the critical m a s s o f U -235 or Pltutonium -239; but i know from an (i think thru stable) source that
the critical mass of U-235 is officially 1 5 kg (probably lo wer), and from Plutonium-239 it is 10 kg.

I don't know how this question belongs to battle feild chemistry and ....well,The critical ma ss of fissionable m e t e r i a l d e p a n d s
on the proba bility of chain rea ction continuing and so it depends on Density,Area exposed a n d s h a p e o f m aterial.Now
m inimum critical mass is calculated for ,of course, spherical shape but density is not a constant.So different sourses say
different values.W hen I did a course in nuclear technology(long ago) I roughly rem ember I was told that fo r tightly m o u l d e d U -
235 in norm al air(no pressure) it is 25 kg. but again even tem perature is a variable involved.
BTW considering the density of U-235 what will be the size of the "Ball of crotical m a s s U - 2 3 5 " ; ) ?

U s u a l l y , f o r m a x i m u m density, plutonium critical m ass is a oversized tennisbal and for uranium a size 4 soccer ball IIRC.

I knew about uranium . H e r e c o m e s s o m e t h i n g i n t e r e s t i n g for people who wants to do som ething "g ood".I always wondered
" h o w a b o u t " a s s e m bling" a Nuke in enem y c o u n t r y ? 5 0 k g o f m e t e r i a l c a n b e s m u g g l e d e a s i l y a n d s o a r e t h e h i g h e x p l o s i v e s
and triggers and shields.The outer shell is triky but that can be "Improted legally in the enem y country as hollow sh ell(nothing
threatening) in the nam e o f s o m e antique(just color is wieredly,dam n I ' v e s e e n a shop where very large he mispherical m eta l
pots with all those oil paintings on them at sell).so you have got everything right in the city of
target.Now.................................;):)
simply RED D e c e m ber 14th, 2003, 12:59 PM

5 0 k g o f m eterial can b e s m u g g l e d e a s i l y
Bullshit!
matjaz D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 10:39 AM

For a trivial geometry, like a sphere, it m ight be possible to do it analytically, solving the neutron transport equations. For
anything fancier, one would re sort to a sort of a Monte-Carlo calculation. You describe the geometry of the system in a
computer program , put in a few seeds for the avalanche, then follow them num erically thru the ma tter. Som e of the behavio ur,
such as scattering angles, are chosen randomly (hence the name Monte-Carlo), conforming to the appropriate distributions for
each. Each daughter neutron is then followed thru its life in the same way... If your code chews on happily, you're below critical
m ass. If you get a stack overflow, having to follow too many daughter reactions, you're above critical.:D
The hard part is to get the reaction cro ss-sections right. These a re considered "sensitive" data and would be hard to aquire.
Mike76251 D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 06:28 AM

There are satelites in orbit that can "see" radioactive so urces.
T h o s e g a m m a rays will give you away real quick and you cannot shield them very easily.
A nuke core that I dream e d o f s e n t g a m m a rays throug h 100 ft. of concrete when it was operating.
As a interesting side note............this reactor that I dream ed of made $$1 million USD a day worth of electricity.
Bert D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 11:16 PM

1. This isn't exactly chem istry. W hy post it in chemistry related?
2 . I t s e e m s m ore tha n a bit speculative and kewl
3. Everyone should read the n uclear weapons FAQ by Carey Sublette (http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq4-
1.htm l#Nfaq4.1.2) as it lists u nreflecte d critical masses for the com m o n n u c l e a r f u e l s .
(edit) And once again- this is a first post asking a question. U se d t o b e a g u a r a n t e e d k i c k .
----------------------------------
W e cleared the last point by e mail, didn't we?
Rhadon
firebreether January 6th, 2004, 02:31 AM

m atjaz: the reaction cross sections are not "sensitive data" and are in fact easily obtainab le in graphical an d text fo rm at here:
http://www2.bnl.gov/ton/
Y o u s i m ply input the desired nuclide, say U, hit enter. T h e n s e l e ct which isotope you want, say 235 . Then click on "XS graphs",
then which library you want ususally the first, and select which cross section you want, prob ably "total fission cross section" and
then go to plot, and it gives you graph ically and text file. Its pre tty sweet.
and another handy link for cross sections, not just neutron cross sections is here:
http://www.nndc.bnl.g ov/%7Ekinsey/endf/
matjaz January 6th, 2004, 05:40 AM

firebreether,
Usually, the ENDF, the Firestone's Table of Isotopes, Nu clides.net, published articles are m ore or less consistent for exotic
reactions far from the valley o f stability. They need to b e, since that's wh e r e t h e g a m e is in research. For classical reactions of
"tactical" interest ;), you will find m any discrepancies. Also, a lot of data differs system atically from very careful m e a s u r e m ents
and I cannot but think of "con spiration theory" som etim e s .
Moreover, "total fission cross section" is not all there is. Neutrons and gam m as produced have nontrivial energy, spin and
angular distributions, which can depend on geom etry, capture resonances in im purities... You cannot just m ultiply that by the
total cross section, since the cross sections are functions of all this param eters... as well. Nam ely, you need a lot of data which
is indeed difficult to get and will trigger questions if you try.
Another prob lem is getting good computer codes. MCNP , Geant... etc are good, but to use them well, tricky variance -reducing
techniques need to be used since Monte-Carlo gives huge statistical error if you just go brute-force.
matjaz February 10th, 2004, 11:09 AM

There are satelites in orbit that can "see" radioactive so u r c e s . T h o s e g a m m a rays will give you away real quick and you cann ot
s h i e l d t h e m very easily. A nuke core that I dream e d o f s e n t g a m m a rays through 100 ft. of concrete when it was operating.
- In my estimate, satellites could not even see awfully hot (in th e m ulti-Ci range) unshielded sources. It's just too far and
shielded too well by the air to work.
- A n y g a m m a s o u r c e c a n s e n d g a m m a rays through any thickness of concrete. It's the probability that gets sort of... low. 100ft
of concrete is A LOT. Yes, you do get a photon every now and th en. But detectable from the background? No. I don't think any
fission reactor has m ore than a couple of feet total shie lding.
Getting really O T . . . C a n s o m e s e n i o r o p e n a t h r e a d o n t h i s ?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The Scan Scam
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megalomania December 7th, 2003, 11:50 PM

With the holiday shopping season around I am in high alert for deals galore. It almost feels like taking advantage of the stores, which actually feels good since they are all a bunch of money grubbing bastards.
I have conceived of this scam to target merchandise at big retailers like Best Buy. The short of it involves covering the bar codes of expensive products with the bar codes of cheap identical looking products.
What you do is buy a cheap DVD player for example at $40 and take it home. You then make a high resolution scan of the bar code and print that off on sticker paper in your printer. You may then return the DVD
player at your leisure. You would then return to the store and slap your sticker over the bar code of the latest high tech DVD recorder, a $1000 item. They look more or less the same in the box right? The cashier
rings up your $40 DVD player and you leave. Repeat as necessary, but in different stores.
Now you try to return the item minus the fake sticker for a full refund, sell it on Ebay, or keep the thing, that part is up to you.
Naturally the scam hinges on the clerk not noticing you have a different item than what pops up on his screen. Having a cashier as an accomplice could work wonders here. Another way to obfuscate your item would be to hide
your scam item amongst a large number of goods. The clerk will we busy ringing up all the other items to notice. Also go for young ones, they also hire temp workers around the holidays, you want ones that are less
experienced. Dont worry about buying a bunch of items, you can return them.
You can do this in any number of stores, with any type of merchandise. You would probably want to maximize your profit by swapping the highest value item possible.
Naturally I write this to inform the store security officers in the audience so they can be aware of how this can be done. No law abiding citizen, every member of The Forum, should never do this for gain. That would
be a sin, praise Jesus.
The Anarch December 8th, 2003, 06:03 AM

Just something you might want to give some thought to: Being a cashier myself, you might not necessarily want to go for the less experienced ones. The reason being that if they screw up on something, they'll
call a manager to help them right away. Managers wouldn't be good to have around.
Another thing is that returning the item might not work, as you'd need your recipt. It wont matter how much the item scans up for if the recipt only says $40.
Still think it's a great idea though.
xyz December 8th, 2003, 06:23 AM

That is an excellent idea.
Stuff returning the item, flog it off on Ebay :) . EDIT: Oops, you already said that...
There is a similar scam for gaining household appliances where you pose as a fictitious company that trades in these items, and you request free industrial samples from various manufacturers. You tell the
manufacturers that you want to evaluate the goods to check if they are suitable for you to sell. This is supposed to work 90% of the time so long as you offer to pay for the postage and handling (but not the actual
appliance) .
A-BOMB December 8th, 2003, 10:36 AM

Trust me they will scan in the barcode of the unit your trying to return and security will be there quick. I got caught doing some thing like this a couple of years ago. Was at my local TrueValue and found that there
side fire door alarm of deactivated to they could keep it open to let out the heat. So I went around the store and picked up some of the stuff I needed and some expensive stuff to return. I grabbed some bags from
one of empty lanes and went back bagged every thing and just took the buggy out the door and on to my car. I waited a week and went back to return the expensive stuff(multi-meter,lazer levels, etc etc etc) and
the first this they did was scan them in and ask for a recipt I said I didn't have one as they were presents, but now joy.
Then enters the stores rent-a-pigs and a long discussion, and they taking it all, threatening to call the real pigs to haul off my ass for receiving stolen mercindize. In the end they just took acouple of pictures of me
so they could Identify me, and then banded me from ever entering there store again. It was better then going to jail for a bit or a fine, and even then I just waited a few months and went back the guy at the
sercurity desk was the same as before didn't even reconize me when I asked him were they had ramset gun parts. So watch out Mega, they have camera every were now I was out at the mall in robinson they got
camera on some of the shelfs now.
streety December 8th, 2003, 10:55 AM

Another option following up the print your own labels idea is to actually print the money. Okay, not actual money but where I live the supermarkets all sell one pound stamps that you are meant to collect
throughout the year and then you can get your christmas shopping for 'free'. They are only worth one pound each so there are no security measures attached to them and would be easy to copy. You buy a couple of
these, take them home, scan them and print out a whole load more. Attach them to the free book they give you, walk back in, do your shopping (including all those expensive presents) and pay at the checkout.
Incidentally if you want to stay legal and still make a saving these stamp books often give you a 2 bonus if you buy 48 pounds worth which would be a 2% discount straight away.
I'm also a checkout operator and although I agree you don't want the truly inexperienced if you go for the guys around 18 they are generally speaking far to cocky and couldn't give a damn whether you payed with
monopoly money or not as long as it means less work for them. Of course having been kindly alerted to this devious ploy by the kind and noble megalomania I now know what to look out for. ;)
flashpoint December 8th, 2003, 11:28 AM

Trust me they will scan in the barcode of the unit your trying to return and security will be there quick.
That's only if you take the barcode off, and some POS (Point of Sale) systems, montior actual pieces of equipment...like at walmart, they do inventory on canned goods, they scan the bar code with a portable
scanner, it comes up with how many have been purchashed out of say 10. And if there are some missing they'll know that way, or they'll know to reorder ;) Anyway...if you leave the cheap barcode on, you have
the receipt for that. Evidently you walked out of the store with either a magnetic strip, either in the barcode (they have those in the US, I don't know about the UK or anywhere else), or somewhere else inside the
packaging or outside. Although I do see your point, but if you kept the cheaper wrapping on it, it would work anyway, but at some places you could probably remove the sticker, but why, when your receipt reads
40.00, your not going to get 280.00 back when your receipt reads 40.00. :cool:

Some stores will let you return merchandise without a receipt, but they give store credit like a gift card. That's just as good since you can then use that card to buy more stuff, and then later return that stuff for
cash. It is just a bit more trouble that way.
Darkbloodpriest December 8th, 2003, 04:58 PM

The sticker idea will work fine.
The key is to make it look like the exact same sticker. Same texture size...you get the idea.
When you start your training in retail they train you on what sticker to look for. It helps to buy something with a store label on it and not a original upc.
There is zero security training here though. As a cashier, you are told just scan it and let the managers worry about it. Now if you do something obviously stupid(put the sticker for a cd player on a playstation 2)
YOU WILL GET CAUGHT. There are cameras over all the checklanes in most stores so if you do this prepare to not come back for a while. When they do inventory and they notice a $1000 dollar dvd player missing
they are going to cross reference the register logs with the products id/upc/serial #. If you buy a shitload of stuff, your face will be put on the stores internal list of suspects. I HIGHLY doubt most stores do this,
but some of your larger retail stores have teams made just to watch for this sort of thing. But while security may be watching closely during the holidays, they will most likely not catch someone with any real
skill. Now when it comes time to return the item(s), get a giftcard!!! That is the only thing to do, period. If a sale looks suspicious, ESPECIALLY if you don't have a receipt for such an expensive item, either they
will ask if you want a gift certificate, or you MUST ask for one. Get mad, complain, GET PISSED off, and you will win every time. Don't even attempt cash or check. For those of you curious where this info comes
from, its from many years of retail experience...I've seen how its all done. And yes...temp hires are the best! They don't don't know the product much less know what type of scams to watch for. Just look for the
longest line, a cheap looking name tag(ie name written with marker or a sticker instead of a permanent looking nametag), or a speedy checkout lane where its 10 items or less. Those are always new people
learning the ropes so they stick them on something easy. And what about places that have self checkout? Absolutely perfect! No shit to deal with. Even better, go find a 24 hour Hellmart(walmart if you live in the
US that is) and use the self checkout. No hassle at all. And if there happens to be a problem, theres never security at night, only a rent a cop that sometimes circles the parking lot.
I would be happy to put more down but thats the retail lesson for today...should be enough to help all of you in whatever endeavours you aspire to acomplish :D
jimmyboy December 8th, 2003, 07:38 PM

DO NOT do this -- all barcodes of each individual item is usually kept in a database - so definitely do not try to return the item -- also some items have security devices in them (metal strips - etc) especially if they
are over a certain price -- will be kinda embarrasing when they nab you at the door with your pretend $40 dvd - if you are gonna try this do it with something small and keep the price difference reasonable - dont try
a $40 tag with a $1000 item for chistsakes -- use your head -- the cashiers are tired yes and overworked -- but not all of them are stupid.

How exactly do those security strips work? I never see them deactivated or anything, does the cash register send out a deactivating signal when scanned in?
blindreeper December 9th, 2003, 01:03 AM

In Australia the metal security strip things jsut make the shop lifting beapers go off. When you enter a store such as Big W they have these panels in the entrance and they beep when one of those bar codes go
through. Don't know how I found that out though ;)
Flake2m December 9th, 2003, 01:10 AM

So your saying that hypothetically I could go in to a store and buy a set of Logitech Z-640s (5.1 speaker set 70w) for AU$120 then come back later and get a set of Z-680s (5.1 speaker set, THX certified, 500w)
worth AU$500 for only $120?
Lets also remember that doing this is theft so dont think that you will always get away with it. Another suggestion for something like this, is that pay in cash, if you walk with a $1000 DVD burner for $40 and they
notice its missing, then there is a good chance that they will start cross referencing purchases made using EFTPOS, or credit card and this can be traced back to you.
The security strips depending on the type can be deactivated a number of ways. Most times they just rub the strip over a pad that must de magnetise them, so that could be bypassed by having a small pocket
magnet and then just de-magnetising it yourself.

Originally posted by megalomania
How exactly do those security strips work? I never see them deactivated or anything, does the cash register send out a deactivating signal when scanned in?
Well basically, the security strips are magnetized, and demagnetized at the register. Although some are like transmitters, I know the barcodes that if you peel off and look at the reverse side, you'll see a small
maze of metal, like 1-2mm wide, and like 1/32 in think heh, really thin so you won't notice it, well I'm pretty sure these are transformers or magnetized, I've worked with a few people that designed POS (point of
sale) systems and I was told they were a type of transmitter.
Originally posted by jimmyboy

DO NOT do this -- all barcodes of each individual item is usually kept in a database - so definitely do not try to return the item -- also some items have security devices in them (metal strips - etc) especially if they
are over a certain price -- will be kinda embarrasing when they nab you at the door with your pretend $40 dvd - if you are gonna try this do it with something small and keep the price difference reasonable - dont try
a $40 tag with a $1000 item for chistsakes -- use your head -- the cashiers are tired yes and overworked -- but not all of them are stupid.
and you sir, are a dumbass. Read what I said above this post and you'll notice, you just repeated what I said. :rolleyes:

This is in response to Flake2m's response.
Yes, you should be able to get the z-680's, by first purchasing the z-640's, and using their barcode. Basically, I think when megalomania posted this...I think something is an error...I don't think you should be
buying the first item, I think you should have a friend purchase the first item, that way when they see the video tapes, which they will do, if something of value is missing, they won't notice the two similar
purchases. I think it would be safer this way, if you intend to keep shopping at the store in the future.
Chemical_burn December 9th, 2003, 02:49 AM

OK heres what a friend of mine has does hehe its very ingenious. What he did was but a new video card for his comp a ATI 9800pro and took it home opened it up and removed the card installed it into his comp then
took his old card a ATI 9000 and put it back into the box and went to Office Depot and had them resraine(sp?) wrap it they do this for a cheap price couple of bucks and then returned the apparently unopened box
back to best buy :D
So what I would do it buy an item remove it frmo teh box place an older almost identical item back into the box (example a DVD burner and replace with an old CD Rom hell you could even remove and swap out the
face plates if they matched ;) then just return it you have your recepit :D
Ohh its best to do this with items under $100 US as they will pay you back in cash :D anything ove rthat and they usually mail it to you in the form of a check wich is bad because they may discover your ruse when
someone else has bought the returned item and its not the correct one and they have a record that you perchased it :( very bad.
Also if you do this pay for everything in cash so that way theres no paper trail also do this at stores you dont usually visit. Like in another town near by..
Ok well thats my Idea anyway if any of you try it let me know how it goes ;):)
Dunkelmann December 9th, 2003, 05:19 AM

In Europe,you dont even have to scan the original Barcode, just memorize the number printed underneath. Every Item carries a EAN, European Article Number, which is used to identify the items ( at least in most
Stores). You can easily create a Label with the EAN using standard Software available on the Internet.
In some Shops (mostly for clothing) i have seen Barcodes which have encoded the price in them, so you can fake them easily. Just get a Label Printing Software, a cheap Barcode Reader (20 Euros on Ebay) to do
some tests and read a little bit about Barcodes. It is all very well documented and no secret at all. Most Barcodes have their Value printed underneath in Plain Text, and there are only a few types that are used.

With the magnetic strips... Is it possible to deativate them by swiping them with a magnet?
streety December 9th, 2003, 08:57 AM

I don't see why the magnetic strips would be a problem unless you are trying to take the goods out of the store without 'paying for them'. The checkout operator should remove any tags for you. Even if they don't
(sometimes they do miss them) when the alarm goes off you just look enbarrassed and show the nice security guard your receipt.
If you want want to disable the tags I wouldn't have thought that a magnet would disable them although magnets are used to remove them but that more fiddly than deactivating tham.

The barcodes with a maze of metal tracking on the reverse simply distort the magnetic field between the detectors at the shop doors, in a specific and recognisable way. When this happens, the alarm goes off.
Very interesting idea. It's so simple that it makes you wonder how they can't already be wise to it...
Most barcodes are printed directly onto the packaging, but a good sticker over the top wouldn't be too conspicuous. Products sometimes legitimably have new barcodes stuck over the originals anyway.

Streety,
No one else has corrected you on this, but I will. If you pay 48 and make 2, you have made 4%, not 2%. In fact, you have made more than 4%, you have made 50/48 *100 -> 4.166 %, in fact.
A lot of supermarkets let you do this, and yes, you do get free money! Just buy the stamps now, and use them at christmas. Hell, buy them on your 1% cashback credit card (just remember to pay the balance off
before you pay the interest!)
If you are rich, you get free money... Shame I ain't rich yet!
Anyway, I think the forum needs to learn a little about RFID.
RFID is the latest way to stop people nicking stuff. Each RFID tag has a unique number, and when it gets stuck on a box, the database knows what is in the box, as the operator tells it, or the factory tells it. When
you buy it, the computer knows that the item has been bought, and what it is. When you walk out the door, those panels that scan your shopping read EVERY barcode, and cross-reference it with the store
computer, to make sure you didn't try and do what Mega describes.
How it works is that the strips are laser cut to resonate at a set of precise frequencies when hit by a known frequency of radio signal. These are at slightly different freq.s, so the pattern tells you which thing it is.
This is the basic system.
More complex systems actually have tiny chips in them, which use unique in the world codes, rather than "I'm a PS2", they say "I am PS2 sn123424, made in Taiwan on september 3rd 2003 by bob..." or whatever.
They use the radio signal for power, and transmit properly. Some of the expensive ones are used for tracking animals, and stuff. They are tough enough to be put into tyres, and some of the big manufacturers are
using them for that now. (Set your telesniper to shoot tyre number 124343!)
There are lots of concerns in privacy and human rights organisations that these tags are a unique way to identify people remotely, and so you could be tracked, just like in "Minority Report", except eyewear won't
stop the radio tags!
If you want more details, read up on RFID off google, or post here.

As both a cashier and a criminal, I can add a few comments to this thread.
The security tags that look like a maze of foil underneath are easily defeated by simply slashing it with a razor. This breaks the foil and makes in inoperable as an RF resonating coil, which is how it works to set off
the alarm.
Also, if you ever see one with a red mark on it, that means it's already deactivated straight from the manufacturer. Don't know why, it just is. Might be some automated quality control process that scans the tags
as they're made and marks the defective ones or something. The clerks aren't supposed to use them, but the temps aren't likely to know or care about that. :)
As for barcodes, why bother buying the item to scan it when you can take a picture of it or simply copy down the numbers, and then plug those into a barcode program to print it out? If it's a generic barcode than
you can just copy the number. If there's special printing on it, take a digital camera with you to the store and photograph it. Anyone asks, tell them you're e-mailing the pictures to someone so they know what to
buy your cousin for christmas. ;)
Be sure to include a precise scale in your picture so the finished product is at least as big as the original UPC. It'd look rather weird if it was only half as big as the original, wouldn't it?
If the item is shrink wrapped...hope the cashier is a moron, because this would instantly be sus' to me, as the UPC should be under the wrapping if it came that way from the manufacturer.
For choosing cashiers, go for either the pimply faced girl (always pick females if possible) or old fogeys who seem about ready to die. Either one are ripe for bullshitting if they hesitate or ask questions and likely
don't know that items shouldn't have UPC stickers outside of the shrink wrap. You wouldn't want someone like me as your clerk because I've got no problem with calling people on the stupid shit they try to pull
over on me.
Oh, and don't try passing bogus bills past me either because I give the eye-fuck to every bill over a $20, which is why I've never had a bogus bill get past me, unlike my co-workers at various stores. Every store
I've worked at, I've had co-workers take counterfeits, but not me. Likely 'cause the passers see this clerk looking for watermarks and microprinting and know better than to even try. :p So if you see the clerk
doing that don't try luck with a UPC scam 'cause this is a detail oriented kind of fella and he'll likely notice somethings up.
Someone who whips the items through with nary a glance and gets the money tendered lightning fast is experienced. This could be good or bad, depending.
It's good if they scan the items without having to look for/at the barcodes because they won't see that it's a sticker. It's bad if they've worked there a long time because they'll know most items by heart and would
instantly notice something wrong about your total and look at the receipt and notice the $1,000 DVD player rang up as a $40 CD player. Oops. :o
If you're doing the switch to get the item for your own use or resell, rather than refund, than I'd suggest having someone else come in just before you and put the bogus UPC stickers on several of the items on the
shelf, not just the one you'll be buying. This way, if you're caught at the register, you RTPB DENY! DENY! DENY!
They'll go to tape and see someone else putting the stickers on the item. There's also several others on the shelf tagged thusly. You're just an innocent shopper who coincidentially grabbed an item that was being
prepped by a criminal scumbag for some nefarious purpose that has absolutely nothing to do with you. ;)
After all, if there's several items tagged thusly, it would be because a gang of ne'er do wells were planning on clearing them out, not buying one like you (the innnocent shopper caught up by circumstance) were. :D
The tagger should already be out of the store before you walk in. You're never in proximity to him. It's simple for him to signal you that he succedded in the mission by leaving the store with a hat on if he did, hat off
if he didn't. This way you're not caught on tape in the parking lot with dude which would be proof of your malfeasence.
We have, at my store, a notice up about some niggers that returned something without a receipt and got all pissed about not getting cash back (about $40 worth), since we'll only do refunds as gift-cards if it's over
$10 without receipts, so they bought another item. Well...every store in the state now knows about these niggers and their item, so they're not going to be getting a cash refund at any store anyways, since they
either have to have the receipt (showing it's a giftcard purchase which would only be refunded in the same manner) or they don't show a receipt with the same result of a gift card.
If they were smart (an impossibility when referring to niggers), they'd have maxed out the gift card by buying items under $10 in value, and returning the items to different stores, or at different times/people, so
that each item is refunded in cash.
The "buy an item and return it with a similar, but older version" scam is doable. I've done it myself for things in the past. This depends on the person who handles the return being a moron.
If it's a typical big-box store clerk, they'll see something "techy" in the box and assume it to be the proper item. If it's a techno-geek like at a real computer store, he'll instantly know that it's a Radion9000 that
you're trying to return, and not the more expensive 9100Ti that's on the box, so you'd be busted.
Buy something about the same cost/type as your target item and do a legit return and see how the clerk/management handles the return. If they do a serious eye fucking of the return, forget it. If the clerk opens
the box and glances inside and tells the manager it's all good and you get your money back...;)
The best time for either of these scams is the two days after christmas. This is when everything goes on clearance (UPC scam) and gets returned (Refund Scam). Hit 'em hard my evil minions!
flashpoint December 9th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Thanks NBK and Jack's Complete, I was pretty sure that "maze of metal" was some type of radio transmitter, like I posted in my previous post. Good information to know...I'll definently be putting some of this
into use. By the way, does anyone know of a good barcode generator for Windows?

I consulted my mom who did retail for years. She says after a physical inventory they will notice that an item is missing. They then run the items upc through the computer and cross reference the exact times of
purchase with the securitty video, which they keep for some months. DOn't make it easy for them, use cash and go to a store you don't frequent. Winter is a good time for disguises as well, hats, coats, gloves,
etc can hide the face and body.
Nbks idea of using an accomplice to sticky the items beforehand is brilliant, I was going to suggest the same thing. You can only do this with one item though, it would be a rather large coincidence to have 2 or
more such items.

Well If you had a 3 man team working on this you could get some very nice deals. Since Christmas is coming up if you starting preparing now, you'd have better chances of the scam working.
I'd start work on this by checking out potential stores and looking for items worth scamming. Then I'd look for similar items in the same store ie Logitech Z-640s and Z-680s. Have an acomplice work on making
the barcodes, while the 3rd person is checking out security and general store protocols like returns policies, if they have security cameras etc.
Then come 2 days after christmas, shopping day. Since this time is known for being chokkablock with customers, the cashiers are going to be too stressed out to notice you walk out the day with a $1000 DVD
burner for $40 until its too late. Repeat this at a few stores and you'll at the end of the day you will have got quite a few bargins indeed.
vap0r December 11th, 2003, 04:26 AM

An excellent barcode program for windows is Barcode Magic. You can get it here http://fakeid.host.sk/bcmag.rar
If you want to make a barcode for a product that does not list the barcode number, just has the stripes, use this program http://www.axtel.com/FILES/AxDMO32.exe
I have done this in the past, and never had a problem that I couldn't get myself out of. Do not do this by yourself or you are asking for trouble.

Remember that stickers hold fingerprints on the sticky side as well as the regular paper side, so ALWAYS wear gloves when handling them.
I don't think an inventory will help them find you. Most inventories are quarterly. And, since the UPC of the missing item wouldn't be the one getting rung up, rather the much cheaper one, it's not going to be a
problem unless they figure out which cheaper item was being substitued.
Once the job is done and you're clean away, have the accomplice go back in and REMOVE the bogus UPC's. Then, once they start looking for the missing ones, there won't be any bunk tags to give the game away.
Always deny the enemy the lesson of your tactics.
Also remember to keep your greed in check. Go for the high-ticket items, vary your local, and only get ONE on the items before declaring that store as burnt and DO NOT GO BACK! Go back for second helpings and
you may be helped to a free set of braclets. ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Ammoniumperchlorate
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Macgyver December 8th, 2003, 02:54 AM

I recently aquired some ammonium perchlorate, with the intention to use it for rocket fuel.
But since it seems to be *very* reactive with almost anything, I thought it'd be a good idea to ask here first if anyone has experience with such mixtures?
And is there anything else fun that it can be used for? (Obviously, since it's both a strong oxidizer and explosive in its own...).
Blackhawk December 8th, 2003, 04:57 AM

NH4ClO4 composite fuels can vary quite a bit, Usually around 70% Oxidiser, 20% plastic Binder >10% Al powder and assorted addatives such as CuO to increase burn rate
(and give a cool blue flame). These mixtures usually burn increadibly slowly at 1atm if at all, and require pressures of around 500-1000psi to give an appreciable burn rate.
Anyway, shop around and do some tests, but as I said don't be disheartened if your fuels won't burn (or arn't very promising) at atmospheric pressure.
Other than that you can make some TACP with it.
Bert December 8th, 2003, 05:26 AM

It makes nice blue or purple stars, particularly with Copper benzoate. With a sulfate as secondary oxidizer, it makes mag or magnalium strobe stars.
scarletmanuka December 10th, 2003, 07:06 AM

One thing that has always puzzled me about NH4ClO4 in rocket fuel is wether it decomposes to NH4Cl and O2
ie NH4ClO4 --> NH4Cl + O2 (the NH4Cl would probably decompose to NH3 and HCl)
or into N2 H2O HCl and O2
ie. 2NH4ClO4 -->2HCl + 3H2O + 2.5O2 + N2
Having never noticed an ammonia smell form NH4ClO4 I would say that the latter is more likely, however, in keeping in line with other p.chlorates, the former would make
more sense. Although AN doesnt decompose like Metal nitrates.

A distinct property of oxidizing ammoniumsalts is that the ammonium ion will always be oxidized to N2 or N2O. The latter is only stable at low temperatures and not very
favorable.
Note that when detonating NH4ClO4, free Cl2 will be formed:
2NH4ClO4 ---> Cl2 + 2O2 + N2 + 4H2O
scarletmanuka December 10th, 2003, 09:46 PM

Surely the reaction between Cl2 and H2O is exothermic to produce HCl gas right? Wouldn't that mean while detonating, the lowest energy products are formed being HCl and
O2?

No, the reaction between Cl2 and H2O is endothermic.
Your reasoning is flawed. If it was exothermic, it wouldn't be formed during detonation, because high temperature favors endothermic reactions. ( Le chatelier)
But, because it's endothermic, some HCl will be formed during detonation, yes.
There are alot of hard to approximate equilibrium reactions in a detonation cloud.
For example, with carbon compounds the Badouard (sp?) equilibrium is one of them:
2CO --> C + CO2
Ofcourse high pressure is needed, since we're going from 2 moles of gas to 1 mole of gas.
dogbone103 February 6th, 2004, 06:49 AM

I am a newby from Australia an i was just wonderig where i could buy ammonium perchlorate. Which shops could i get it from or is there anything i can buy that has
ammonium perchlorate in it?
Thank you.
Zeitgeist February 10th, 2004, 01:08 AM

Chlorates and Perchlorates are among the harder to find OTC's here.
Search. Not just this forum
Flake2m February 10th, 2004, 05:50 AM

@ Dogbone103 I am not going to even bother answering that question. NH4ClO4 is a chemical fairly hard to get hold of because it is fairly reactive and the general public has
little or no use for it.
As a n00b it would be a better idea for you to learn some basic chemistry and understand some basic principal before you even start handling and using chemcials such as
NH4ClO4, which is quite reactive and can be dangerous if you don't have a clue.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > cal hypo and sugar
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flashpoint D e c e m ber 8th, 2003, 11:23 AM

I know that Calcium Hypochlorite and Sugar, and water com bined, when confined under pressure, build up gasses, hence why
little kiddies get pool shock and mix it with sug ar water in a 20oz soda bottle. I'm curious as to how this reaction
works....anyone care to explain? :)

No interest in this I suppose. I guess i"m the o n l y o n e : c o n f u s e d :

D o I s m ell som eone trying to pass "demanding answers" off as selfpity?
P r o b a b l y t h e s u g a r g e t ' s o x i d i z e d t o C O 2 by the hypoch lorite.

No, just interested in a lot of things, and I ask a lot of questions, you ha ve to learn on your own and by asking questions :)
nbk2000 D e c e m ber 10th, 2003, 04:05 PM

Perhaps a reading of the rules which you appparently skipped doing the first time would help clarify things for you.
Like that part that says:
I f y o u a s k a q u e s t i o n , don't post a reply to your own thread saying "Why doesn't anyone answer m e?" if yo u don't get a
resp onse witin ten m inutes (or a day in your case).
Mayhaps I'll overlook it this tim e . . . o r m a y b e N O T !

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nitro paint-explosive?
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Mr. Boombastic D e c e m ber 8th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Hallo to everybody!
I`m new hewre, so dont be harsh on m e:) (I did read the rules)
I`ve b e e n r e a d i n g a n d studying the info on this forum for two m onths (m ore or less)
My favourite explosive is AN-d ue to availability. Thanks to you I found out that it can be im proved-by adding NM.
The problem is that I don`t know where to get it -it`s not acetone you know:D
So I had an idea-why not use another nitro group containig stuff, meaning-nitro paints, (varnish or glue). These paints contain
a big ratio of nitro cellulose (gun cotton). However they also contain othe r chem icals.
So here is my question-can th is paint be added to AN (and will it improve the exp losive)
If not-m a y b e s o m ebody knows how to rem ove these unwanted additions (pure GC-it`s usefull stuff!!)
Oh, another thing-I d ram ed of making a plastic AN by adding wax+ vaseline and sensetize it by adding KClO3 (Ican get that
stuff easyly)
Thanks !
Oh-sorry for m y english.

The problem is that I don`t know where to get it -it`s not acetone you know
it sh ould be available as a com p o n e n t i n m o d e l fuel with methanol and castor oil, or it can be bought pure for custo m m i x
fuels
PHA I D D e c e m ber 8th, 2003, 07:22 PM

G u n c o t t o n i s e a s y t o m a k e t h e h a r d p art is getting the nitric acid.
ill have to look up m y old formula but i think it was 2 parts nitric acid to 1 part sulphuric acid and let the cotton soak 24 hours
then rinse with tap water.

Gun cotton is not the subject here! That was totally useless info.
NM can be got at hobby stores as zeocrash mentioned. The first hobby store I went to which is a little store with an old m a n
who runs it, I found 2 .5L NM b ottles (got me one now :D) and 5L m ethanol and 1L castor oil.
But ANNM doesn't im prove the explosive as such. Well it increases to VoD but its still an AN explosive. It se n s a t i s e s t h e m ix
which makes it easier to detonate. So you can use acetone if you want. Basicly and solven t/fuel you want.
Desmikes D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 01:00 AM

Blindreeper, did you m ean to say that ANNM is still just an AN com p, im plying that it is somewhat inferior? ANNM (m any %
possibilities + other stuff out there) measures up favorably to dynam ite with respectable NG content and TNT. By the way, does
a n y b o d y k n o w the VO D of standard 5:1 com p .
Mr. Boombastic D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 08:56 AM

So you m ean taht adding the nitro pain to AN is useless-O K, but you still didn`t a nswer my question-can it be extracted fom
the paint.
Blindreeper,i wouldn`t say that GC is useless-I read somewhere, that a p aste of GC (GC + solvent + AP) can be detonated with
APAN booster, and it was said that it`s a PO WERFULL STUFF. It can be used as a plastic HE while the solvent is insid e , a n d y o u
can also let the solvent to evaporate, then you get a so lid HE.
I agree with Desm ikes-ANNM is not just AN com p . , T h i s m i x h a s b e c o m e m o r e p o p u l a r a m ong the militarists too-due to stability
when separated.
Axt D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Desmikes
By the way, does anybody know the VOD of standard 5:1 comp.
I would have thought the "standard" com p would be 2:1 at O B, thats what I always assume unless a ratio is given a fter the
n a m e..
As for VO D, the only reliable data ive seen is for kinepa k (3.3% xylene / 15.1% NM / 81.6% AN) which gives a VO D o f 6 1 2 0 m /
s. Now, lets assume the reaso ns for the added xylene is to give the mix OB with a lower am ount of liquid fuel as AN prills wo nt
hold enough NM to achieve OB, prills a re used as a powder will clump and be a bastard to mix a fu el into while in a tube.
Taking that into account one would think that ANNM 66:33 would have a higher VOD then kinepak in the very least due to its
greater density as a powder. Powdered ANNM will hold the NM as long as its used imm ediately after being m ixed, if its to sit a
w h i l e b e f o r e d e t o n a t i o n a d d a b i t ( d o e s n t n e e d m uch) of guncotton to help hold the NM in the AN.
B o m bastic: If you want an inert fuel as a relatively good sensitiser look for xylene, you wont get explosive grade NC from
pain t. Noone has said guncotton is useless and your AP compositions look straight from totse, APAN booster into AP NC solvent
... what the fuck. Anyone using more then a few gram s of AP is looking for trouble.

You have all misunderstood m e.
D e s m ikes - Yes I was saying ANNM is just another ANFO type forum lation , I was n ot saying it is inferior though ;)
Mr. Boom bastic - W hen the hell did I say it was useless to add the paint? I said it would be just an other fuel = another ANFO
m ix.
I also never said gun cotton was useless, I said that PHAID posting about the synthesis was totally useless info, it had nothing
to do with the topic.
H o p e t h a t s e ttles all of it :mad:
Axt D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 11:11 AM

The fact the NM is an explosive in its own right means its not "ju st another ANFO form ulation" that com m ent is misleading, its
m ore sim ular to amatol then ANFO which should be left to AN + "inert" liquid fuel.

I thought if you were going for the true definition of ANFO (AN sensatised with a fuel of som e sort) ANNM fits that catagorey.
Yet I see how it is also explosive, its a bit iffy that one :(
Mr. Boombastic D e c e m ber 10th, 2003, 09:31 AM

OK-I got it. nitro pain t will not give better results than any liquid fuel. :)
Oh,Axt, you are right-that GC com p. really is from totse (I`m a newbie here and dont know your relationships with other
forum s [like totse-it seems you hate it])
As I already m entioned, I have 0,5 kg of KClO3. I dont really know what to do with it (I mix som e s m all am ounts with red
p h o s p h o r u s u n d t a p t h e m w i t h a h a m mer-just to for fun) I know I can mix it with wax and vaseline , but ma ybe I can use it for
m ore noble ideas (mix it with AN or som e t h i n g e l s e )
I c a n g e t m o re of tha t stuff with no questions asked.
Thanks.
0EZ0 D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 08:17 AM

Blindreeper, check your sources. Typical ANNM is not a sensitized AN+Fue l com position. It is m ore correctly a binary com p a n d
is not usually m i x e d t o O B as most AN+Fuel com p s . N i t r o m e t h a n e a l o n e i s e x p l o s i v e . I t i s s e n s i t i z e d b y t h e a m m onium
(NH4+) ion a nd other am i n e s . T a k e a m m o n i a s e n s i t i z e d N M ( s e a r c h ) a s a n e x a m ple.
From m e m ory the VoD of the standard high percent NM com positions hover around the 60 00's with variations in loading
density, cap size and the ratios of AN to NM. Interesting ly a sma ll additio n of m ethanol can increase the Vo D up near the
7000's in peak conditions. Don't quote m e on that though. I have not looked at any references discussing ANNM recently.
I m u s t h a v e a n o t h e r g o o d l o o k at the literature containing inform ation on amine sensitized NM and ANNM.
tom haggen January 2nd, 2004, 04:17 PM

D u d e u s e s o m e com m o m s e n s e m r. boom b a s t i c . d o n ' t t r y a n d u s e k C l O 3 a n d r e d p h o s p h o r u s i n a n a m onium nitrate com p .
Also if you read around a little m ore you might find that a KCLO3 and vasiline m ixture is very hard to detonate. So how the
f u c k c o u l d y o u u s e s u c h a m i x t u r e t o s e n s i t i z e a n a m onium nitrate comp ? Mabey i'm wron g but it doesn't m a k e s e n s e t o m e .
By the way where the hell did you get some red phosphorus? Also blindreeper, your posts made perfect sense. I cant believe
how a hard o f a tim e people were having trying to understand th em. It looks like OZEO probably knows a little more about the
subject of ANNM though.
PhoeniX_KEA January 18th , 2004, 12:42 AM

Hm m...... R ed Phosphorous = http://www.iowapyrosupply.com/
Mr. Boom bastic, what are your m e a s u r e m ents for the fo llowing?
"plastic AN by adding wax+ vaseline and sensetize it by adding KClO3"
Thanks

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C arbon Rods
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Sonny Jim D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 08:15 PM

They're just one of th o s e t h i n g s t h a t e v e r y o n e s e e m s to have and take for granted, but I can't seem to find any he lpful info
about their a quisition. I've read through the chlorate m aking threads here, but can't find any info about getting the rods.
Google searches have been pretty shite frankly, ringing up a lot of dictionary definitions and big company names, who sell
stuff way too big and expensive for m e to bother with. I've heard that they have use in welding? Only after looking on ebay
etc, all of the welding rods I've seen are m e t a l s o f s o m e s o r t .
Anyone care to enlighten me on this one? Any help is greatfully received.

They are used in welding, gou g e r o d s I I R C . I h a v e s e e n t h e m . They were about 40cm long and were 6mm thick. They have a
copper foil over them so you have to peel it off.
Y o u c a n a l s o g e t s o m e 8m m x 7 c m from Ever ready 6v batteries. The on es with they use in dolphin torches. They have 4 cells
i n s i d e t h e m . Carefully open the cells a nd you will have som e black MnO 2 paste and a central carbon rod.
The other place I get my carbon rods is from an art store, get the hardest kind possible. They are in the fo rm of pe ncils. Solid
carbon pencils. They are abou t 8mm round and 15cm long. Theya re not cheap about $3 a pencil, but maybe if you buy bulk it
will be cheaper.
Jacks Complete D e c e m ber 9th, 2003, 08:33 PM

Shouldn't that be the other way around? The harder the pencil lead, the m ore clay in it, and the so fter, the more charcoal/
graphite.
Not that it will make much odds, as long as it conducts.
YayItGoBoom! D e c e m ber 11th, 2003, 07:47 PM

Y o u s h o u l d b e a b l e t o g e t t h e m anywh ere they sell arc welding materials. There are literally thousands of them in the supply
closet for m y school's tech automotive program . Any kind of arc application would m ost lik ely use them, welders, carbon arc
lam p s ( H a v e n ' t s e e n t h e s e m u c h e x c e p t i n s c h o o l g y m s) m aybe e v e n b u g z a p p e r s . . . .

i get m ine at the loca l welding s u p p l y s h o p . $ 1 a p o p .
frogfot D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 04:29 PM

H e r e s m y story, how I found them . I found adress of some welding corporation through te l e p h o n e b o o k . W hen I we nt there it
showed to be a hangar in industrial area, so I went in, and asked first person who was the re. He didn't knew what theese
carbon rods were used for, but he poin ted me to a store that selled lots of welding electrodes. Theese precious carb o n r o d s
were there waiting for m e..

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > DIY Cruise Missile Grounded
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nzrockets December 9th, 2003, 08:35 PM

http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
it just shows how backwards our government can be down here. so i better not use any guidance for my rockets from now on :)

Do we know what the pretext is? He doesn't say on his site, but it sounds serious.
Is it something to do with guidance, or what?
McGyver December 10th, 2003, 12:58 AM

Don't want to start a new thread but here is my question. Why is it that rocket explosions like cuise missles and others like anti-tank, produce black smoke when they explode?
Is it because thier secondary explosive is TNT?
metal dragon December 10th, 2003, 02:04 AM

My guess is it is carbon and ash being thrown about by the explosion. And some left over smoke or the detonation, yet it may not be TNT but another compound.
Axt December 10th, 2003, 02:59 AM

From what I can see, hes been declared bankrupt for not repaying a debt, that is all. I take him for a bit of a dodgy customer when it comes to talking about his "missile" he
constantly claims that hes proved that it can be done ..... but hes proved nothing other then hes a brillant marketer and news-person by talking up his project.
Could be that he found out it simply cant be done and is getting out whilst trying to save face, we cant know.
Some plasticisers create black smoke look at the PETN/PIB in explosions link in sig, it creates black smoke
ronald December 10th, 2003, 08:35 AM

No, this guy CAN do it. I wouldnt doubt on that guys skills and capabilities.

Hey, US/New Zealand/Australian government are all keeping the sheeple SAFE and SECURE with colorcoded charts hanging around the place. New Zealand even gets rid of the
airforce, because nothing can beat some sophisticated color coded chart! Fearsome!
Anyways, then this punk stands up claiming any Joe schmuck with a budget can build a cruise missile that would be very hard to defend yourself from...
Got the picture yet?
Flake2m December 10th, 2003, 02:05 PM

Who would wnat to invade New Zealand anyway? All they have is sheep and mountains.
Yeah, on topic. If he had been less public about this and simply kept to a small website then maybe he could have completed the project without the media intefering.
There is no proff that he has actually made this "cruise missile" however it is certainly possible given Mans natural ingenuity.

I figure, since he's not giving up the fight, that's why he's lost the ability to license his x-jet and all of that stuff...sucks for him definently...I was checking out that stie, after
someone was working on a jetcart here on the site. I think he's a complete idiot though for posting the information in a country like NZ...what country is it where they are
heavy on no guns? NZ, Ireland?....just curious
spydamonkee December 11th, 2003, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Flake2m
Who would wnat to invade New Zealand anyway? All they have is sheep and mountains.
Excuse me but we have alot more here than just sheep & mountains Mister!
But if anyone seriously does want to invade new zealand then some would welcome it as most of our army consist of south park's "operation human shield" :p
We certainly could do with a few less native's...and i dont mean the sheep :D
Also with an invasion keeping all the sheeple & native's busy it would give someone a chance to exercise his HE skill's on the local mud's wiping them away with a swift
clensing action.
One can dream i guess.
Jacks Complete December 11th, 2003, 07:31 AM

New Zealand is one place I would seriously like to move to!
You are thinking of Ireland being wildly anti-gun - they are nearly as bad as the UK. New Zealand actually has a story on the imigration website about a world-class rifle
shooting couple who moved there. They aren't anti-gun, really, but they are very anti-nuke, in all forms.
New Zealand has a policy of relying on Australia's military strength, because they are so remote. Who the heck is going to invade them? Anyone who did would be using it as a
stepping stone to Australia anyway, so Aus. would have to help, regardless. New Zealand really don't need an airforce, unless they want to piss about like the UK at being
some kind of superpower.
Personally, I would have sold the crap, and bought three or four state-of-the-art fighter planes, and a few small long-range recon craft with the capability to fire a few missiles,
and a few nice shiny helecopters.
The helicopters would be dual-use, as most are good for moving people round, rescue, etc. as well as shooting up small boats full of smugglers.
The Recon craft would tell you where to shoot.
The state-of-the-art fighters would be for me to play about with! :)
Having looked at the guy's sight, and looked at a lot of his videos, he is for real, and has some superb engines. Even a total fool could set one of those into a longer tube with
stub wings and fire it into the sea. He has a valveless design that can push his go-kart, with him in it, at quite a resonable speed. Without him in it, it would probably be air-
borne in seconds.
Wfter that, it is just a case of working out how to wire the GPS unit output to a map system (available for very little from Tandy, Maplin, etc.) and there you go.
A really silly way to do it, without any integration, would be to use one of the really cheap GPS units that just points an arrow at your destination. Use a small embedded
controller to read the arrow via a camera, and that steers the fins. It explodes when it gets to the destination, and the arrow changes to a circle. (I advise putting a timer in
there, too, though!) Once you had the code, you could make loads for way less than $5000 a time.

Again i'll say ... Just because a model plane flys, a jet engine pushes and a GPS guides slapping them together does not make a cruise missile. Noone has stood back and
thought about the true scope of the "missile" project and seen how incredibly complicated and hard it actually is, how long and at what cost did the V1 take before it worked ...
and even then a lot were lost. $5000 NZ dollars maybe for the basic missile if all the work is done yourself, but $5000 doesnt get far when it has to be developed, tested and
flown. Hes gone too far with his webpage and media interviews and such to simply say ... nope sorry cant do it so it seems just as logical to me that he will let out his little
"government conspiracy theory" to get out of it.
I'll never say that hes not a talented craftsman but hes also involved with the media and has the motives to attempt to ride the wave of terrorist hysteria to promote himself
and his "x-jet" engines. You people can remind me to eat hy hat if this missile ever flys, but I think im quite safe in saying that it wont fly under the $/speed/weight/range
constraints hes given to the project, and im quite sure it was for the most part a publicity stunt.
Tuatara December 11th, 2003, 06:04 PM

From an engineering standpoint I can't see the missile idea as being all that difficult. The Germans had such a hard time with the V1 because rocket technology was new. Hell,
they even had to develop a suitable explosive for the warhead, that could withstand the air-friction heating.
Now we have pulse jets as a known, proven technology. We have GPS, with selective availability turned off so now your average civilian GPS can be accurate to 10m. We
have off-the-shelf computing power that fits in a cigarette packet, that was once undreamed of. We have complex numerical simulation available so you no longer need to
build 100 missiles that fail to get one that works.
The project is definitely do-able! Maybe not for 5 grand, but even $10k would still be one hell of a lot less than the million bucks a shot the US army is paying.
NZ is not an anti-gun country. Lots of people here own guns for hunting (ducks, pigs, deer, goats), and plenty are into target shooting. We do have gun licensing, so the police
know who has what. The only things are are banned are full-auto, and military look-alikes.
Our military is so small we've come to specialise in support roles in conflict - transport, medical etc. Personally I think this is sensible use of limited resource - what use is
another four fighter jets, when your allies already have 1000? Only the Navy have a real peace-time role : keeping Asian fishing vessels out of our territorial waters!
Jack: NZ is a nice place to live. But then I have to say that, eh?
Aside form sheep and mountains we also have a burgeoning film industry! I'm so looking forward to LOTR: Return of the King. I already have the other two movies (extended
edition - much better). Myself, I live about 10km north of Weathertop.

Isn't alcohol really cheap in New Zealand? From what I have heard about $30 will get you about 1.5L of vodka :D
Yeah but the US cruise missiles are a much more advanced form then what is trying to be achieved. The SLCMs that are currently used have a range of like 1500 miles, fly
much faster and are much larger and can carry much bigger warheads. Plus they are designed to have a low radar signiture.
A bastardised version of the US cruise missile is easily achievable, even if it onlt has 1/10th of the range and payload size it would still be anough to be a threat if a terrorist cell
used them.
ronald December 12th, 2003, 08:21 AM

30$ for 1.5L of vodka?! OMG, we have 3$ for 0.5l vodka, that makes 9$ 1.5L.
Tuatara December 12th, 2003, 05:21 PM

Depends whose currency you're talking about. NZ$30 sounds about right for 1100ml spirits. I think thats what I paid for the last bottle of brandy. I don't drink much (prefer
coffee :cool: ) so I'm not in the grog shop very often.
Axt December 12th, 2003, 06:17 PM

Theoritically do-able and practically do-able are totally different things! If this missile was to work first try, or in the first 5 tries for that matter this guy would be a mechanical
genious. To stabilise the V1 they actually had to strap a very brave woman into it to find out what it was doing in flight, and all the unmanned US jet propelled spy planes
guided by GPS all crashed in afghanistan due to becoming unstable and it was a multi million dollar machine. ITS NOT EASY !!
John Ashcroft December 13th, 2003, 04:17 AM

Yes, but as already was said about the V1, the technology was new, which is no longer the case.
Strapped a brave woman to a missile? Somehow that doesn't sound realistic.
The spy planes crashed because they weren't designed to simply go from point A to point B. They probably were extremely complex and compact, meaning there's lots of ways
they could fail.
Isn't alcohol really cheap in New Zealand? From what I have heard about $30 will get you about 1.5L of vodka
That's expensive, here in the US I can find a half gallon (1.9L) of vodka for $8.

How about a google search for 'V-1 brave woman (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=V-1+brave+woman&meta=)' before you make me out
to be a liar ay? :mad:
The spyplanes were not compact they were very large, and as if theres not lots of ways a homebuilt missile can fail :rolleyes: its hardly a stable platform. And how many fails
has this bloke equationed into this project, and how many do you think he can afford in $ and time before he looks like a twit in front of the all the media he has talked to?, or
will he come up with an excuse blaming a government conspiracy .... get it?
If you wish to go on thinking its "easy" fine, but no more comments from me as this will never be more then a ping-pong game of opinions, especially since none of us have
even seen what this misslile looks like, we'll just have to wait and see.

That price was in New Zealand dollars, not US dollars.
streety December 13th, 2003, 12:42 PM

transatlantic model plane (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3145577.stm)
If this is possible I don't see why a cruise missile isn't possible. I would imagine it's the exact same technology.

Using an inheritably stable platform launched by radio control before being switched onto autopilot is the logical way of doing it, but "GPS guided plane flies 100km before
crashing" is hardly likely to attract the attention of the media which is what this bloke is after.
By the discription on that page it took them at least 8 planes to get it to work with the help of international engineers. I dont think anyone is going to argue that launching a
DIY jet powered buzz bomb off the back off a moving truck is somewhat different (harder!), no? Still think this bloke is looking for an easy way out of what hes gotten himself
into.
NightStalker December 15th, 2003, 01:35 AM

Me thinks he took the easy out by saying "The Government shut me down" rather than "I talked shit and now I can't back it up.". ;)

Well when you think about it the easiest part of making the "cruise missile" is the engine and fuselage. The real tricky part is making it fly. Even with GPS and all the state-of-
the-art technology avaliable the main problem is keeping the whole thing stable.
12Gauge December 26th, 2003, 01:32 AM

This whole exercise is somewhat useless, anyway. Ok- you make a jet powered R/C aircraft- nothing new there. The GPS control and such is interesting, but nothing that
would particularly difficult to figure out for someone with the knowledge and experience to do so..... This project really wouldn't be overly difficult, and $5000 would probably
be reasonable for someone working alone, not paying wages of flight,electronics,explosive engineers etc... Of course the Nazi's had a hard time developing the V1 and 2- they
were doing so over 50 years ago, and were the first to try something where virtually everything had to be developed from scratch- guidance systems- even the jet engine
itself was in it's infancy......
Anyway- say this guy succeeded- so what? You have just made yourself a weapon that will travel a whole 100 miles (maybe) and deliver a whopping payload of nearly 10
whole pounds!!! Wow! 10 lbs of HE doesn't exactly qualify for "WMD" status. Load 'er up with chemical or biological warhead and it's even less effective.... chem and
bioweapons are generally only effective in enormous, concentrated amounts (remember how ineffective the Sarin attack in Tokyo was? That was inside a cramped subway-
not an open space with wind)- something this system hardly delivers...
For something like this to be effective you'd need to launch literally hundreds of them to do any real damage. You think the authorities might be curious about several semi
tractor trailer loads full of homemade cruise missles? There are much simpler ways to accomplish the same, relatively ineffective result, should one wish to do so. In the same
vein, there are any number of much more effective schemes that are also much easier than what Mr. Simpson has attempted...
Jacks Complete January 4th, 2004, 11:57 AM

As a weapon of terror, this thing would be very successful! I can't believe that anyone here disagrees!
From a hundred miles away, with a non-ballistic trajectory, you could hit Downing Street or the Pentagon, whenever you felt like it. If the GPS guided cruise missile wasn't that
good, why would the US pay a million or half a million a shot for them?
The guy says on his site that, with the plans and basic skills, you could produce one of these projected designs for less than $5000 NZ, or 1666, or $3000 US. He isn't including
his time in this, nor your time. Yes, it will be a bitch to make it stable, fly straight, etc, but once that is done, those who follow his designs will know that they will have a stable
platform, etc. at the end of it.
He is doing the R&D, so that you don't have to do nearly as much work. As other posters have pointed out, he has 50 years on the Germans, and they did it under fire!
Yes, you can knock him, but at least with the publicity he doesn't need to worry so much about getting dead by some spook! If he makes any money, I will be amazed, except
for payment for interviews. But hey, it is still easy money.
As for 12Gauge's comment about 10lb's of HE, well, you can drop that ten pounds anywhere, with no worry about blowing your hands and head off, without being seen by the
CCTV cameras and without anyone having any real clue about where the launch was made (not that you would do it from home anyway!) whilst being fairly sure that that ten
pounds of HE will land within about 25 yards of where you told it to go. The kill radius from a standard handgrenade is bigger than that, and it only uses 4oz of HE and 8oz of
steel!
In summary, it is ideal for "reconasence by fire" as practised by the US in Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as attacks on any un-armoured target at almost zero risk.
Snowfist1971 January 7th, 2004, 04:39 PM

I don't get this guy.
He sounds like he's over-engineering it for what he's trying to accomplish. If he's trying to rub the NZ government's nose in it by supposedly doing it on the cheap, that's one
thing but how is an average schmoo like him gonna reliably test something that would go more than 100 miles? Using GPS for a short range project is over kill when store-
bought gyros,an electronic compass, and home brew accelerometers integrated into the project as a primary guidance system would work just as well, and no doubt be a lot
cheaper to interface even if you had to go to Rad shack for the electronics parts as opposed to a GPS with such a large window of error.
In so far as the pulse jet is concerned, if he's gonna go to the trouble to make a jet engine he might as well just take the extra time and make a turbine and save himself the
extra expense of needing a high speed launcher that a pulse jet would require( obviously he didn't think of that did he?)
Let's see what else? Ah yes, a little looking around his site and a segway into his X3 pulsejet ...blah , blah, blah pretty much gave me all the info I needed on why he was even
trying this at all. Anyone else read that he was on a NZ grant for his X3? I get the feeling he was trying to goose more money out of the NZ gov by using his little engine for a
potiental defense contract and not a "wake up and smell the toast burning" lesson like he said.
This guy is hilarious, and the NZ government seems to have seen right through him.
As for that Transatlantic plane, yup, it would be about the same just flying a lot slower and having larger wings to skimp on fuel for such a long trip.
Blackhawk January 7th, 2004, 11:48 PM

You don't need a high speed launcher to get a pulse jet running, they work at 0Km/h, you just need a leaf blower or other fast air pump to get it started, as I have seen him
do.
Tuatara January 8th, 2004, 12:41 AM

Snowfist, GPS is a far simpler technology to use than gyros, compass and accelerometers. GPS gives you absolute position in three dimensions, usually via a simple serial port.
Using accelerometers and integrating to get position is fraught with problems, mostly due to noise, drift and other errors. Unless you use very accurate (and expensive)
systems for intertial navigation you accurate range is going to be less than a mile.
Snowfist1971 January 8th, 2004, 06:16 PM

With all due respect to you Tuatara, I know what a GPS is and how it works, and you still get drift because of wind with either system. As someone above mentioned this
would be more a weapon of terror and therefore wouldn't have to be too incredibly accurate to make the point, making the use of a GPS and associated circuitry to interface a
serial port just as expensive if not more so when the gyros would be needed anyway just to keep it straight and level while in flight.
With respect Blackhawk, your response proves my point. If you need to add a leaf blower or some other appropriate device to get your GM up to speed(whether it be handheld
or built onboard) then you are not starting it at 0km, you are starting it at the air speed of the leaf blower up until it can create enough thrust to take off on it's own. While only
slightly more complex to build and start, a turbine combines leaf blower and pulse jet of a sort (not strictly so as a turbine uses a continuous firing cycle due to the fact that the
air is continually condensed into the firing chamber) as well.
Now not to piss anybody off, but present CM's use a turbo fan so that there is no sacrificing of speed, and a turbofan is essentially a turbine with a larger "propeller" forcing
more air into the air compression stage than a true turbine would. If you don't believe me, look for info on the present day ALCM's yourself. The only bad part about a turbine
is that they are generally fuel hungry critters for the extra speed they give which can cause weight problems.
Ideally with a turbine powered example, you could just set the craft on the ground( if it had wheels of course)and leave so that you could launch it by remote control, and
make a "fast getaway". Could you do that with a hand held leaf blower?
Blackhawk January 9th, 2004, 12:32 AM

A turbine is not 'slightly' harder to build and fly, it requires very well balanced blades for the compresser and equally well balanced and heat resistant blades for the turbine. You
will need very good bearings and a pressurised fuel delivery system, which means a heavy pump and a way of running it. You will also need a way of starting this, probably a
big motor to get the blades spinning before you can produce any thrust. So if you really look at the situation, there is absoloutly no advantage of using a turbine over a
pulsejet. The pulsejet on the otherhand is only a big tube with a valve assembly at one end, and if you make a valveless one then it is just a big tube, not very heavy at all,
much easier to make and requires just as much ground support as the turbine to start.

Snowfist1971,
you really are talking shite. GPS doesn't suffer from drift from anything, wind included. In the event of wind pushing the missile off aim, the control surfaces would act to push
it back on, and this would work at any range and in anything but a randomly changing wind direction at hurricane strength. Even then, it wouldn't be the fault of the GPS.
As for testing the flight distance, how trivial would it be to enter twenty waypoints in a circle, and just have it do ten mile laps till it fell out the sky? Nothing hard about that.
And as for your ideas about how a pulsejet needs "the air speed of the leaf blower up until it can create enough thrust to take off on it's own" that just shows you have no clue
about these engines, nor have even taken the time to look at the guy's site, or even read the earlier posts from those of us who DO have a clue.
Have you seen how small turbines are started? Gosh, can you see? It is an air supply, from a leafblower or compressor, used to spin the blades of the turbine up to speed
before the fuel with be turned on, to avoid it flaming out, and the lack of throttle response otherwise found.
As Blackhawk says, turbine blade are not easy to build. Every single design I know of uses a shop-bought turbine wheel, most often taken from a car turbo unit.
Try having a clue, before NBK catches up with you.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Testing of unknown explosives
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Hello all,
I am going to try out a number of peroxides and organic nitrates and more over christmas holidays, if there's enough time for all this.
If it works, I will give you proper details of the compounds made.
For starters, I'd like to know how I should best go about that.
Obviously I start with small batches etc, to limit any damages of runaways/overly sensitive compounds.
Let's just assume I manage to obtain a liquid/solid that doesnt blow up while drying/mixing/storing it.
1. First test would be heat. A fuse to see how it deflagrates/detonates.
2. Thermite to see how it acts on heat shock
3. The good old hammer test - see if it makes a loud sharp report.
Say, I find they are all between primary and secondary, i.e. a flame doesnt always cause det, thermite does (as I found with HMTD), and hammer does (or does not).
At that point, I would go about evaluating the explosive force.

Thats where I would like your advice:
Say I make a crude homemade blasting cap, primer HMTD, with a bit of the unknown Explosive at the bottom. Preferably not in a metal container, as I wouldnt like to test the
sensitivity of peroxides in the presence of metals.
I use a straw or similar plastic tubing, filled with 3 g of HMTD and below the unknown E.
How would I best go about of deciding whether the unknown E. detonated (i.e. I wouldn use a huge exess of primary over unknown E.)
Of course I could do the control, i.e. primary + the putative secondary unknown, and the other time primary + a random chemical, such as sugar. However this would be time
consuming, and unless I use a big excess of secondary (i.e. more than 2x as much as the primary), it is hard to judge, i.e. in terms of the amount of soil obliterated.
Basically, I would just like to tap your knowledge/experienece on how I would best go about evaluating explosive force (in relation to other known explosives) of unknown
explosives without doing extensive test series, without using heaps of the unknown explosive, and without using fancy equipment (i.e. the ones being used for determining
VOD)
Advice anyone?
Thanks, chemoleo

Instead of a hammer which isn't constant (type fo hammer, how much you decide to hit it) make a drop test rig. Axt has a brilliant video of his on his website. I am in the
proces of making a smaller one. probably only 5g or less explosive could be used and it has a 600g hammer. It is accurate to a cm and goes from 1cm to about 40cm. I hope
to test some explosives like this int he holidays aswell.
The good ol' lead block expansion test is very good for measuring explosive power. A lead cylinder with a hol in it is filled with a know amount of explosive and detonated. The
cavity it makes is recorded. I have a 6kg lead block which is about 10cm high and 7cm round with a 10mm dia. hole in the center with about 1-2cm space from the bottom of
the block. I don't know what I should use in it because it takes a bit off effort and gas to cast a block that size.
The other test for explosive power is aluminium plate test. It involves detonating a know amount of explosive in on an aluminium plate, usually 3-5mm. A good explosive will
make a clean hole. They also do this with lead plates.
The is a lot on explosive testing in "The Chemistry of Powders and Explosives" or COAPE if you will. It has detailed explainations on all the things I have mentioned above.
Happy testing. Be sure to take lots of movie and pictures. Its better than reading a bunch of text!
EDIT: Just thinking about your tests, the thermite one isn't very good because if the explosive is flame sensative it isn't very good because thermite produces a great deal of
fire.
The heat test as you call it should be called a flame sensativity test. If you have a flame on the end of a long stick and expose the explosive to the flame you are looking to
see if it detonates or whatever it does. If it burns calmly it would be counted as not flame sensative or whatever. But taking a movie of it is the best way.

Didnt I just recently start a topic on this :rolleyes:

Sorry Axt didn't even see that thread :confused: Wasted 10 minutes writing up a decent post :mad:

Thanks guys.
What I meant by the thermite test is that I'd use that once the ordinary flame test failed.
Sorry for partial overlap Axt.
What I was looking for specifically is to test as many variables of an unknown explosive with as little explosive/machinery/material/effort and money of course as possible.
Yepp, the cheap and easy way :)
I am aware of the lead block expansion test, but as you say yourself, it's a pain melting 6 kg of lead just for one little experiment!
The Al plate test (in my case copper) seems like a nice and easy one, and conditions could be controlled easily...from the sound of it. Still it needs the control though.... an the
other hand, there is no such thing as absolute power if you have no means to compare it to a lesser one!
If my ideas work, and if they seem promising, maybe then I will embark upon making more complicated devices....
Basically, what I am worried about is that I wouldnt be able to tell apart the force of primer alone (i.e. 3g) and that of primer and unknown explosive together (so 6 g in total).
I.e. shrapnels etc will give some measure of an additional force, but not a definite one!
I guess the only reall way to do this is to use a huge excess of 2ndary vs primary :(

So what explosives are you going to be making?
"a flame doesnt always cause det, thermite does (as I found with HMTD)"
Are you saying that HMTD is not flame sensitive? Because I can assure you that it is!
A flame sensitivity rig could have a mini gas torch on a pendulum arm that swings back and forth over a sample of explosive. The greater the number of swings before the
same decomposes, the higher the flame sensitivity.

Now if this wasnt in the watercooler it might be worth replying too.:mad:
Anthony: Or the slower the swing the less sensitive to flame (slower the longer it will be in contact) adjust the swing by moving a weight up and down the pendulum, or is that
what your getting at anyway ... the longer it swings the slower it gets.
Blindreeper: We posted at the same time. For a smaller drop test rig you will want a pretty small diametre "hammer" to increase the pressure on the explosive, probably about
8mm diametre should work with that weight. You will use a lot less then a gram of explosive with this, you only want a thin layer of explosive spread over the entire area the
hammer will strike. The movie of mine shows more then that but that was just for the movie.
You would likely be best off using a hardened steel hammer onto a mild steel base, this is so the mild steel will conform to the shape of the hammer so that you will get even
hits all the time

Ok, somehow I don't seem to be getting it across :( - didnt think my communication skills were that bad! Probably everyone thinks being a newb on the forum equals dumb,
so the worst is naturally assumed :D:D
I wont tell yet whwat I am going to test, simply because I dont want to get anyone excited about it until I get results, for it might fail to start off with. Just like in research in
ac. science (personal experience :) ). It wont be anything thats been discussed on this forum :), but it wont be a sensational new idea either... just expanding known principles
:). Lets just hope I get enough time over Christmas.
On HMTD - to my experience, and to others (a few had the same thing), it burns violently when exposed to flame of course, this is when unconfined (like nitrocellulose). The
only way I found to detonate it reliably, WITHOUT any confinement at all, was if I layered a small amount of thermite on top (in a film capsule), whereby the molten Fe/Al2O3
would drop onto the HMTD. This way I avoid pressing etc, which I like because I value the function of my fingers...
Back to testing explosives.

I figured that flame test with varying heats (pyro mixes, match flame etc) would tell me the flame sensitivity, in very crude terms. Then there are two possibilites:
1. It doesnt burn - because the explosive is crap/not really an explosive at all, or because it can be only detonated. Like some aromatic explosives, which just slowly burn, but
with massive shock, explode. In any case, as I wont know whether the explosive is a functional one or not, I have to use the shock method. Hammer is one, whcih may not
produce results, however. At that point I would also use thermite, to see whether heat shock & instant evaporation would cause det. (as with HMTD in my case)
2. It deflagrates, say like HMTD. Then I would try the hammer & thermite, too. If I achieve det. easily, I would play with it a little more at that stage, as it then would be a
member of the primary explosives.
Let's assume it doesnt deflagrate, and I cant set the unknown E. off with either flame, thermite, or hammer. I will need to test it with a primary. And here I am not so sure as
to how I would tell apart the force of the primer alone and that of primer & unknown explosive (u.e.) together, especially if I dont use an excess of primer vs u.e.
I wondered how it would be *easiest* to tell the difference.
I don't particularly fancy making larger amounts of u.e. just to make sure there is a difference. Any ideas? So far I am most in favour of the metal plate method, by the dent/
hole etc produced I might be able to tell. ..
PS I like your hammer method :) Sadly though that doesnt provide a measure of the explosive force, right.... I was more after evaluating the latter :)

If you want to measure relative force, try a balistic pendulum.

Axt, I found the steel bar I was using in the rig didn't make match heads go off, so i got a wheelie bin axle (1.5kg) and they have a taper on the end. So they are about 3/
4inch round and taper to a 1cm flat surface. That sets of match heads, but when I cut the other end flat it didn't go off, so your theory is correct :)
I am using a 3mm thick pice of square mild steel as the plate.
Chemoleo, if you have large quantities of HMTD is will detonate. Also thermite isn't a reliable test I don't think.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Blow gun dart poison
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CLAPHAM December 10th, 2003, 09:20 PM

Does anyone here know of a good poison to use with a blowgun? My house is surronded with little red squirrels and they drive you crazy when your hunting. Sometimes i'll
take a couple out with my 22 but its more fun with the blow gun, they just don't die fast enough. I live in Michigan so there aren't any poisonous animals (that i know of). I
was thinking of a plant extract like from the seeds of the Strophanthus speciosus. The seeds were used by the Native Americans as a dart poison. I just don't know how to
extract the poison from the seeds. Any help would be appreciated.
Zeitgeist December 11th, 2003, 02:26 AM

I don't know what plant that is, but is the toxic property an Alkaloid?
Your standard polar/non-polar acid/base extraction should work
If you aren't familiar with this, i'll find some more details of the alkaloid extraction process
Jacks Complete December 11th, 2003, 07:40 AM

The South Americans used the "Poison Arrow Frog", not seeds.
It must have been really easy... Looking through the guidebook for something to poison arrows with, and there it was...
PHAID December 11th, 2003, 08:56 AM

Nicotine would be a good choice, its easy to make and will stop their heart.
Mr Cool December 11th, 2003, 09:35 AM

Concentrated Monkshood sap. Contains (pseudo)aconitine, oral LD50 ~2mg/kg, dried plants can be a few % alkaloid (w/w), and it can be found at garden centres
everywhere.
kurama guineu December 12th, 2003, 12:19 AM

clapham, check this out.
http://www.roguesci.org/archive/299_6-27.html

In that thread they were talking about an injecting apparatus which really wouldn't work considering the weight of a dart like that. They were also talking about a tranquilizer
and it would take a lot more to kill something (although it would probably be enough to kill squirrels). I was talking about just dipping the tip of a dart in a something. The
poison of a dart frog (which is really alcaloids they get from the plants they eat) only takes 136 micrograms to kill a 150 pound animal so i was thinking i could just extract the
alcaloids from a plant. Oh and not all Native Americans lived where there were poison dart frogs (such as michigan). I am going to try the Nicotine and Monkshood sap and i'll
report back with my results.
Magas December 23rd, 2003, 07:53 AM

Why not try dried snake venom. I presume america has rattlesnakes in most parts. They are easy to milk and then concentrate the venom. You should have fierce snakes like
here in OZ or just a taipan or two now thats poison.
Aaron-V2.0 December 23rd, 2003, 08:52 PM

Now while it's nice to find plants and extract poisons for this task what about getting a container of Red Devil Lye, dipping the tips of the darts with white glue and giving them
a coat of Lye? It'd get an immediate reaction from the rats and I'm pretty sure for their size it'd prove fatal.

I tried the nicotine and Monkshood sap. The nicotine didn't do anything but i might have been doing something wrong and the Monkshood sap (which was really hard to find)
took about 5 hours to kill the squirrels. And holey crap one of them was making this weird high pitch squeeling, it was rechid. Magas, the only snake i know of in michigan that
is poisonous is the water moccasin and i really have never seen one. I will try the Lye thing and if that doesn't work i will buy a couple of books.
Barcy December 31st, 2003, 07:08 AM

Different countrys, different poisons.
Try your government websites for poisonous and dangerous plants. Most people are aware of ricin and other toxins. But until I looked at the noxious/poisonous plants website
kindly provided to all citizens that I realised that there was more poisonous plants around than first realised. I was amazed to find the castor plants grow everywhere near
where I live. Also being in Australia and not wanting to play with deadly reptiles, I have found the common cane toad to be a good source of poison. I am sure if you look, you
will find a poison information site that relates to your home enironment. However they may only explain the toxicity, symptoms and first aid measures, not the speed of the
action. Most poisons do not fast acting.
Barcy January 2nd, 2004, 07:11 AM

Back again after a full days fishing and was thinking about the number of poisonous fish and marine life around. Locally we have a variant of the blowfish. The same one that
can be carefully/professionally prepared and eaten to provide a nice little high as part of Japanese Sushimi. But as is often the case when it is not prepared properly, you have
paralysis and death. Imagine what this would do in the bloodstream of a small rodent or larger pest when delivered by a dart or another source. So another source for powerful
poisons, would be to see if you can get a list of local marine poisons from government websites and diveshops medical or marine dangers type booklets (something I forgot I
still had from my diving days).
Still be warned that most these types of booklets tend to exagerate the power of the poisons, I have been spiked by a type of catfish (tandanus tandanus) so many times it is
not funning (I do mean not funny, it hurts). But it is listed as a poisonous fish beside species such as stone fish, which will not just kill you, but sent you to your grave
screaming in pain..(real nasty stuff).....hhhmmm Know any one you really want to hurt?

take the seed from that plant that you think is so toxic. grind them up, and soak them in some naptha. filter the seeds out through them away. let the naptha evaporate. any
tar like substance left over should be posion. don't poke your self!!!
Arbalest January 4th, 2004, 08:23 PM

If your blowgun darts don't kill the squirrels fast, there's something wrong in either your blowgun, the darts or your technique. Hundreds of squirrels are killed fast with 'guns
each year without any poison. It shouldn't take more than 1 -10 seconds after a solid hit to the heart-lung area. The Cherokee and Choctaw killed squirrels, birds and rabbits
for centuries with blowguns without any poisons.
My hunting blowguns are from 60 to 80" long. You need the length to propel the dart with enough KE. The caliber is .628", anything smaller or larger is less powerful. The most
important factor are the darts. Most of the darts sold by commercial manufacturers are really inadequate for something as tough as squirrels. It takes a razor sharp broadhead
(X-acto blades work well) and a dart mass of 40 to 70 grains to bring down game efficiently. I've lost my share of hit squirrels before finding this out. A long dart, 14 to 18", is
helpful here, since it effecively prevents the animal from diving into cover or hide even after a less-than-optimal hit.
Now if one really wants to experiment with dart poisons, a plant called water hemlock ( Cicuta spp) is a really common plant that grows throughout Europe, Asia and North -
America (probably elsewhere too). The root of water hemlock contains cicutoxin, a highly poisonous substance to mammals. The natives of the Kamtchatka Peninsula made
their arrow poison by crushing Cicuta roots and boiling down the oozing juices to a thick gum. It is supposed to work only when fresh.
DimmuJesus January 7th, 2004, 09:40 AM

There are a couple of books that may help you. I think one of which talks specifically about poison darts. They are all about poisons and as far as I know, pretty credible. I
myself have not tried any of the "recipies" contained in these texts, if you do and something works, let me know! But here they are:
Silent Death by Uncle Fester
The Poisoner's Handbook by Maxwell Hutchkinson
I purchased both online from Amazon.com, but I'm sure there are plenty of other places as well.
ShadowAlchemist January 10th, 2004, 02:55 AM

Barcy, The Japenese Fugu (Fugu rubripes) puffer fish contains an EXTREMELY potent sodium channel blocker called tetrodoxin. This shit is fucking lethal, even in microscopic
amounts.
1-2mg can easily kill a fully grown adult. In one of my books, they reckon tetrodoxin is 1200 times deadlier than cyanide. If you can disect the fish without spiken yourself :)
the tetrodoxin is present in the skin tissue, muscle, ovaries and the liver.
Only symptons are instant muscle paralysis and death by respiratory failure...Nasty!
Clapham, upon receiving a tip from a friend, I did some research on a plant that grows in South America and was used by the amazonian indians...To coat dart tips of course ;)
Tubocurarine is the active ingredient of Curare, which is an extract of Chondodendron tomentosum (a vine which grows in S.America, but I've been told you can order plant
material over the net). The bark and stems is what contains curare and it is in the form of a black 'gummy' paste. Tubocurarine is classed as a Non-Depolarizing Paralyzing
Agent, and it works by blocking certain receptors at muscular junctions, which in turn causes fast muscle paralysis which includes the heart and respitory organs. In other words,
it is meant to be one of the better dart poisons (according to the Amazonian Indians & my mate) ;) Mate has ordered some in past but can't remember where. I tried google
for ya, but no hits. Good Luck
Barcy January 10th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Thanks shadowalchemist. These fish usual just get bashed against the side of the boat until I get my hook back or I just cut the line. But with the data you have provided, I
may keep the next one and experiment with. I am thinking of combining a low velocity .22 hollowpoint (do not want to kill the animal outright) and the next large feral pig I
come across while hunting (may be a few months before the wet weather settles and allows me to go out and look). I will let you know the results.
manowar January 13th, 2004, 11:51 PM

use poison hemlock. it grows in alot of places. it has a deadly alkaloid called coniine which depresses the nervous system rather painlessly. they used it on soccrates execution.
------------------
You're posting to the Water Cooler, but you should make use of the shift key anyway.
Rhadon
Barcy May 17th, 2004, 07:58 PM

Finally got to test my special hollow point. I was obviously wrong with the exact species, however there are so many sub species that are all poisonous. I collected a number of
small toad fish, as the larger species are not biting now that I want them. I used the skin and livers, which a ground down to a paste and washed and filtered with alcohol (all
guess work here). The remaining small amount of product did not filter to well as it seemed to gell. I eventually just opted to put the gell from the filter into a couple of hollow
points sub sonic .22.
I managed to find a large black sow (100kg mark) and put two shots into her rump.
No instant results, but after about half a kilometre track, she lied down and within about 20 minutes was dead. So although it can kill, I would not recommend this poison for
fast results, as the animal was stressed and wounded for the poison to kill in about a 25minute period. I imagine a smaller animal would drop very quickly, but a .22 would
simple kill a smaller animal.
Although I love hunting, I prefer a quick kill and did not like the results, even on a feral animal. I would only use such a poison in a desperate situation.
nbk2000 May 17th, 2004, 08:06 PM

I know of plenty of feral pigs that could use some poison shot into their rumps. :p
Lawrence May 20th, 2004, 07:49 PM

Don't know if any of you have heard of it, but there was a book around a few years ago called Deadly substances,It perported to contain the sources of many natural poisons
available from nature,I have been unable to track down a copy but it is listed in your Library of Congress catalogue if anyone has the opportunity to go and look for it.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > RTPB's
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thrall December 11th, 2003, 07:43 AM

I've searched the entire google and Roguesci.I got only 12 RTPB's.Since NBK's DVDs are w ay far to come and I think it'll be very hard for me get them anyw ay,moreover
membership to forum FTP is also w ay ahead for me.
Now any older member can PLEASE post a link of the site where they have already uploaded. RTPBs are simply great(much as I've got and of course remember) and it's
becoming hard for me wait for DVDs to come.any HELP is VERY much appreciated. Thanks
Rhadon December 11th, 2003, 08:52 AM

Since NBK's DVDs are way far to come and I think it'll be very hard for me get them anyw ayI'm sure the DVD won't take that long to be done. Why do you think that you will
have problems acquiring it? NBK will offer an encrypted version, therefore I don't see any problems in delivering it to where you're coming from.
thrall December 11th, 2003, 12:05 PM

I'm from india for one thing and another is that "w ill he give me those DVD's considering my new bie status thats going to persist for a while?".Though I remeber HE said he will
sell them yet I still feel I may lose the chanse.So if not the DVDs then at least RTPBs ;).If I can get them then of course nothing can be better.

I saw that you're from India but didn't want to say it because it's private information. If I got things right anyone will get the DVD assuming that you pay for it.

I too w ould like a the RTPB's. I've read quite a chunk of the archives and NBK is always refering to them for good reason. Even though they may or may not be finished a rough
draft or any version would be appreciated. They just might hold information one of us needs before the DVD is out.. ;)
T_Pyro December 12th, 2003, 12:32 AM

Even I'm rather interested in seeing the whole list of RTPB's. Would it be possible to post a draft copy in the water cooler? Or maybe for the benefit of others, w e could list the
already mentioned RTPB's from the archives in this thread?
thrall, could you please email me?
Lil_Guppy December 12th, 2003, 01:24 AM

A full RTPB list would be cool, but also dont forget common sence when you are out and about w reaking havok and mayhem :p

The full list of the RTPBs is on the FTP in a PDF.

Of course I know.In the archived threads accessible from google it's mentioned everywhere.But anyw ay now I've forgotten RTPBs,now I'm after the source of RTPBs(The DVDs
;)).Rhadon you know something about DVDs.So could you tell me the cost roughly.I think I've got to save some money beforehand(1$ = 45Rs. :mad: ).
Rhadon December 12th, 2003, 10:32 AM

I've got no clue what NBK will charge for his DVD, he never mentioned it in a post I read.
Flake2m December 12th, 2003, 01:01 PM

I have a PDF of his RTPBs. Since I cant attach files I cant post his PDF, giving full credit to NBK of course.
And the last time I heard NBK was going to charge atleast US$50, depending on the version, amount of info etc

Unfortunately not all of us have access to the ftp. Is it anywhere publicly?

You guys do know you can still attach files by using the usual "reply" page right? You just can't do it from the quick reply.

I'm figuring on about US$50 (2,300 rupees) which would include shipping to US/Canada/UK, though it'll be more if it has to go to some third world shit hole that'll cost me $30
to mail it to.
And w hile I'll be PGP encrypting the contents by default, if it's seized by customs, never arrives, or arrives wadded up into a ball...tough shit.
I'll be able to prove I mailed it to you, but that's as far as I'm liable for it. Everything else is out of my hands and you take your chances when it crosses borders. If it's seized,
it'll be another $50 for a replacement copy+shipping.
As far as member status for buying the DVD, I don't care what number of posts you have as long as money is forthcoming. :)
Oh, BTW, US dollars ONLY. I'm not taking third world (or even first world) monopoly money or fucking about with international money orders or such. US CASH ONLY! If you
can't come up with fifty dollars worth of US currency in any country in the world (preferably by scamming american tourists), then you're unworthy of reading the DVD by writ of
being terminal LAMES who'd be unable to use the information contained w ithin it anyways, so :p
As regards the RTPB's, try a search using ["rules to profit by" nbk] (excluding [] brackets) in Google and you may have better luck. ;)
This would be the old (obsolete) version. New version is expanded with new rules and clarifications, with both real-life examples from newspapers and videos clips from movies,
to illustrate the principles in action.
As for DVD status...it's done w hen it's done. :) But, so far, it's got more than 600 new photos and illustrations in addition to the new text. I figure I'll release it, regardless, when
I hit 1,000 new pages if I'm not done with it before then. So, with that in addition to the 300+ existing previous pages, that'll be one hellafied big file! :D
I've even given it a title...Encyclopedia Crimina...to indiczte its encyclopedic coverage of criminal endevours.
Like it?
And I've started ripping DVD's for the video clips, as well as got a 2 megapixel camera for pictures (videos too), and greatly improved my bookscanning speed, so it'll be a full
plate to be sure w hen it's eventually released. I think everyone w ill be quite happy with the results and feel that they got their moneys worth.

Banks here DO sell US$s.As far as scamming amarican turists is concened Let me recite something (P.E.T.T.Y):).So I assume it w ill cost 80$ to 100$ for me.Well thats fine.I was
expecting heigher prise,considering I'm buying an "Encyclopedia".
As for RTPBs,of course I searched using every possible keywords(including those you gave) only 12 RTPBs not more.Since the site where the previous file was is 404 :mad:.
Customs here are not that stringent.(How many people here buy CDs on internate anyway?Afterall DVD and CD look similar when in case).:)

Gee...I never knew banks had dollars...whodathunk, huh? :rolleyes:
Someone doesn't have the ability to detect my humor. :p
Yes, you could buy the dollars at a bank, but show some initiative and scam it from an american tourist. :) What better way to pay for an encylopedia of crime than to get the
money through ill-gotten means? :D
If you want I can send it in a DVD movie case...but might that not tempt some customs inspector to steal it, thinking it w as a movie? But hey, your money, your choice, and
your risk.

If you need help taking money anonymously nbk2000, i can help you. i'm sure you already are familiar w ith the ways, but if you'd like some advice, then shoot me an email,
and i'll give you my pgp key so w e can chat.

Nothing pejorative intended but if you have some methods of taking money anonymously,why don't you post it right away so that everyone can see it(and benefit from it,if
possible:))?
EDIT:spellings
Bert December 15th, 2003, 12:32 PM

pezorative = authoritive know ledge of pez dispensers? :)

Originally posted by thrall
Nothing pejorative intended but if you have some methods of taking money anonymously,why don't you post it right away so that everyone can see it(and benefit from it,if
possible:))?
EDIT:spellings
1. Accept ONLY e-gold or webmoney as payment. If you w ant to accept WU, give the egold exchanger as your WU drop and do it that w ay. Have a separate (or 2-3 separate
ones) account hooked to an anonymous ATM card to get the cash. After you get the initial e-gold payment, bounce it between a couple accounts (or even betw een different
types of currency) and then transfer it to your ATM card. Drive a couple states away once or twice a week and cash it out, hiding your face, license plate, etc.. the whole time
you're within view of the banks cameras.
2. Keep all equipment and supplies out of your home or place of residence. Storage garages can be rented for as little as $15 a month and most have power available in the
garage in the form of a light socket. You will have to bring order files to your "office" from a computer where you can get online, but that isn't too hard. Save everythign to a
drivecrypt partition in traveller mode and burn it to a CD, do all the w ork, then destroy the CD.
2. Wear gloves during EVERY stage of the operation, from picking the supplies up at your drop all the way through to where you drop the next day air package in the box. Don't
leave any prints at all ANYWHERE. And don't use latex gloves, use cotton gloves specifically designed for working with photography materials, as they are made to not leave
any prints at all. They are more expensive, but nothing is worth your freedom.
3. To do your shipping, ship only by couriers. Since you are selling a dvd, pack it in a dvd case for a real dvd. By pre-paid letter size envelopes w ith postage paid. These are
available at any UPS store, or shipping place. Take them home, and get them ready to go. Drop these in the drop boxes for UPS or fedex or DHL or whatever carrier you choose
to use. These are found all over the place, use different ones, and don't mail all of your goods from the same place. Change your shipping location frequently.
4. Change the return name/address on every package (easily done in the Create a Shipment screen at UPS.com) so that they can't tell UPS to w atch for packages from a
certain name. There are literally thousands of Next Day Air packages dropped off every day all over the place, all in different names, and 99.999% are legit packages. The goal
is to mix in with the legit packages and be undetectable. And if all the packages have different names/addresses, that w on't be too hard to do.
5. Use encrypted email as much as possible, w ith a standalone implementation of PGP or something similar. Make sure that all customer records are kept securely on a double
or triple-encrypted DriveCrypt partition using multiple random-character passw ords. Hopefully this won't ever matter because if you follow the first 4 you probably won't get
caught, but just be safe anyways.
If not need a list of good egold exchangers, and good sources of anon debit cards that can be linked to you egold account, email me.
thrall August 22nd, 2004, 10:25 AM

Now that I got FTP access can someone tell me w here is the RTPB file? It's not in forensic section where NBK2000.pdf is.
Thanks
TheHitMan August 22nd, 2004, 12:15 PM

Have a separate (or 2-3 separate ones) account hooked to an anonymous ATM card to get the cash
You can't get an "anonymous" ATM card, as you need ID and other forms of ID to register an ATM card account. :rolleyes:
THErAPIST August 23rd, 2004, 02:21 AM

I think he most likely meant one of those pre-paid ATM cards as some of them dont require you to use an ID or anything personally identifiable to open them.
TheHitMan August 23rd, 2004, 12:34 PM

I've never heard of these before, nor would I think they'd ever be popular.
But I found a site that gives more information on them. You can find it here: http://www .prepaidatm.com/
Anthony August 24th, 2004, 10:10 AM

They've been discussed on this forum too. A search should bring something up, I believe NBK started the topic.
kryfo September 17th, 2004, 11:47 AM

Perhaps, the old rtpb could be re-included in the ftp, now that most of the members do have access... about a year ago I was able to find the "short" version that nbk2000 had
made, but the real one is now here to be found on the net anymore (even the short version cannot be found; searching for the normal version lately, quite thorouly, I did not
come accross the short one either). It would be much appreciated... Unless of course it is on the FTP, but for the life of me, I w ent through all the directories and cannot find it...
Thank you in advance, if it is deemed proper...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > test
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Admin Testing D e c e m ber 11th, 2003, 05:27 PM

This is a test of the m inim u m p o s t l e n g t h h a c k .

Me too

m e too

m e too

x

I can't post!

x

Son a bitch! It don na work capin!
Art_of_Fire D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 04:18 PM

W ell hello there

O h I s e e , a f t e r 2 d a m n d a y s a l l o f a s u d d e n t h e m in post count kicks in, what the hell?

test test test test test test test test

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Indestructible eh?
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Hang-Man December 11th, 2003, 07:01 PM

Yesterday, as I was walking the halls of my school (I am only 17) I saw our athletic council selling plastic water bottles for $10.50. I asked why so much? And they said
they were indestructible- I laughed to myself. They proceeded to show me how you could drop it, jam it in doors and even run it over with a car, and it would not
break (bending only slightly) it sounded like a challenge, so I bought one. And now I am going to send it to hell, and for the good of the forum I am going to get it on
video, from two different angles. How do you think I should go about blowing this thing into small, but still findable pieces (there is a reward if you break one) and it
can t be melted

IMHO putting a simple good old pipe bomb in the thing and kaboom.I don't know though.HEs generate heat so it may leave the marks of kind of "burned".Try pipe bomb
cause thats the simplest,hence the best;) good luck.
Mumble December 11th, 2003, 07:42 PM

For the retrieving after blasting into small pieces, I'd just bury it in a large bucket of sand. After the charge is set off, pour through a window screeen, or other similar large
mesh material, to collect hopefully. Might also want to try shooting the bottle with a gun. You could always freeze with liquid Nitrogen and proceed to play a bit of sledge
hammer baseball. Ok, so that isn't to viable, but it'd be fun.
Does the bottle have to be broken into pieces or could it just be cracked? Is there some sort of recycling code as to what the substance is? You might be able to conviently
"spill" some sort of solvent on it, to make the crack. I am assuming this is a plastic of some sort. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nihilist December 11th, 2003, 08:06 PM

A simple dry ice "bomb" might do the trick.
EP December 11th, 2003, 09:20 PM

Burying it is a good idea, but I'd suggest more than just a bucket, bury it a couple feet down with a flash charge. Light the (long!) fuse, screw the lid on and bury it quickly.
Then just dig up the pieces... I've done this many times to blast things apart and recover them. What's the reward? Sounds like fun...

Wrap a turn of det cord around it. Flash will likely melt it.

Why not freeze it? Fill it with water, cap it tight and stick it in the freezer. If it's just plastic it should burst eventually.
Some liquid nitrogen would also be handy if you can get some :)
metal dragon December 11th, 2003, 11:59 PM

Fill it with water and place a Cob in it. The water will put out any flames that propagate towards the walls so there will be no burn marks but still have relative fast pieces of
sharp metal to slice it nicely. Or even with a metal hack sawer.
Hang-Man December 12th, 2003, 12:13 AM

I tried the water/freezer trick, it j ust expanded into a sphere shape and when I let it melt it just went back to the way it was. As for liquid nitrogen, I dont have any,
but what I do have is difluoroethane, you can get it by buying compressed-gas dusters (mine are called dust-off) and turning them upside down while you use them. This
causes them to spray liquid difluoroethane. the stuff is really cold(not quite liquid nitro but it still makes plants shatter when you freeze and drop them) but the liquid can be
ignited even though its not classified as 'flammable'. I think I will fill the bottle with water, then put in a small HE det, the water should prevent burning and allow me to use a
lower amount of explosive. (downside would be I have no visco, and I hate using electric ignites when the det is submerged in water)
@Bert: If only I had det cord- that would noo doubt cut it in half.
Dragons post was posted while I was writing mine, else I wouldn't have brought up the water. I think that will work best. Now what should I use as the det?
NoltaiR December 12th, 2003, 12:42 AM

Well assuming you don't have enough explosive laying around to fill it at least half full with HE.... I would just recommend the underwater explosion (I think someone
mentioned it) if this super bottle you have can survive that then it can survive anything

Why not burn it?
Stick a thermite charge in the water bottle and see how long it lasts then. I dont know of very many things that can survive 5000C for long.
chemwarrior December 12th, 2003, 02:28 AM

Fill the bitch with HMTD and blow it sky high.
Also, for intrestest sake, try a diamond tipped drill bit. They can cut through steel... so unless this is some new military material they got ahold of... its gonna become awfully
fucked up....
EDIT- Sorry if I seem like an idiot right now, but I havent slept well the last two weeks and Im starting to become lightheaded... Im crawling in bed ten seconds after this is
posted...

Why not burn it?
Stick a thermite charge in the water bottle and see how long it lasts then. I dont know of very many things that can survive 5000C for long.
he said he was not allowed to burn it!
GibboNet December 12th, 2003, 04:17 AM

If the water freezing didn't get it, try filling it with some coke (or pepsi... whatever). My mum accidentaly left a can of pepsi in the freezer one day, she was trying to cool it
quickly before she left, and forgot it in the rush.
When she got home, it had ripped the can in half, and blown the freezer door open and covered the kitchen floor in pepsi. :D
Now, if that still doesn't work, do that but run over it when it's frozen enough. It's have to crack / shatter after that, surely.
Efraim_barkbit December 12th, 2003, 04:56 AM

Could you give us a pic of it? I have never seen anything "indestructable" before.
Id reckon 50g of APAN would do the trick.
HEs detonates too fast for any burn marking to occur, so dont worry about that.
If you want to use it filled with water, put the explosive in a long container, so you get the end outside the bottle, Then you dont need a waterproof fuse.

Come on, it's only going to be a high-impact plastic!
Thermite and high-tech cutting tools aren't going to be required.
Someone was onto something when they said fill it with water and put a COB/cap in it. Filling it with HE is going to make it unrecoverable. Once filled with water, even a gram
or two of primary will bust it for sure. Unless the lid is much weaker and pops off first (although it'd still be a warranty failure). BTW, electric dets are well suited to underwater
work - much easier to seal than a fuse. Try hotmelt glue.
Also, if you're returning this for a reward, aren't they going to ask how you broke it?

Yeah, I doubt it would be wise, telling them, you blew it up with homemade explosives :)
Just my 2 cents
frogfot December 12th, 2003, 04:36 PM

I hope that reward is more than the original cost of the bottle..

The reward is not run through the school, just a bet my friend made that I couldn't break it. Its not indestructible- you can saw it in half, you can melt it, and you can
drill a hole in it, you just can't break it by dropping/kicking/hitting with a hammer. I have a pic, but for some reason the image posting is not up so you will have to
wait. Im thinking of using Picric acid, Im a little short on nitric acid and other not so common chems so I need to find something easy and cheep.(the bottle is 500ml)
Skean Dhu December 12th, 2003, 05:01 PM

he's talking about those nalgene bottle that backpackers/rockclimbers use.
try an axe,or put it between your car frame and a jack try and get it on a sharp/narrow edge

Hmm. Nalgene. Is that HF resistant? :D Don't think so.... :p
Mumble December 13th, 2003, 12:23 AM

How about a little run-in with a lawn mower? I have yet to see any plastic(and there have been plenty) that could stand up to mine. Might be a bit cold for that, but just say
you're running off the gas if the neighbors come over and ask.
Perhaps a mini claymore type device. Take one of the above explosive ideas and attach a layer of bb's or pebbles or something to it. It should shred the bottle without a
problem.

well the problem with the minimore idea is since it is a bottle more than likely none of the BBs will collide with it at a perpendicular angle and then they will just ricochet off into
your neighbors cat or that crazy old bat who is always watching you through her blinds with her phone in hand. not that either of these outcomes wouldn't be amusing but they
aren't what he's trying to do

Then place the bottle in a hole or depression, or cover it with a metal bucket, or simply do it away from populated areas.
Jeez, some people seem to like being cynical for the sake of it...

I thought the 'minimore' was going to be inside the bottle so every projectile would impact perpendicularly?
ronald December 13th, 2003, 09:56 PM

I bet any of the methods described here wont be allowed by the sellers or they wont work. IMHO its just a rip-off:)
zeocrash December 14th, 2003, 07:18 AM

i believe the warenty on these things claims that they are indestructible in everyday use. now i dont think most people would class wraping it in detcord and blowing the shit
out of it everyday use. But this isn't to say that so called indestructible items cant survive explosions.
any UK members who saw braniac this thursday (sky 1, 8pm) will have seen the testing of "indestructible" objects. the items were subjected to two different tests, first of all
they were beaten severely with a baseball bat, the surviving items were then locked in a caravan full of weather balloons containging a propane / oxygen mix. the balloons
were then ignited and the surving objects collected. out of the 100 or so items that went into the test, the surviving items were: a flak jacket and kevlar helmet + torso and
head of manequin wearing it. a set of tin camping mugs. the most impressive survivor was the set of "indestructible" drinking glasses, these survived almost without a scratch

When you mention that TV testing, I remember a Swedish program about "consumer stuff", aimed at younger people, where they once tested Thermos bottles (sp?)
One seller claimed in an interview that their Thermos bottle was indestructible, and that it even could be overrun by a tank...
Guess what method they used to test durability?,
Thats right, they had the bottle overrun by a tank, and Im pretty sure each and everyone can figure out the results from that test.

The most indestructible object I've encountered so far is the "peep". Yes, those little marshmallow birdies they sell for Easter. Not only are they inedible, but indestructible! We
took ours to the pistol range and stuck them on targets... They would happily take hits up to .45 without appreciable damage, they behaved like those expensive plastic "self
healing" target discs. We finally got out a shotgun with #8 shot. At 20' range we succeeded in damaging the peeps noticeably, at longer range they shrugged it off. A 12 ga.
slug would also remove material, but left the majority of the peep unaffected.

Turn it into a chlorine bomb, those things are usually pretty lethal.
Aaron-V2.0 December 15th, 2003, 01:59 AM

Chlorine bomb? Christ.
I suggest a simple soda bottle salute "Ala" Zero the Inestimable.
1/8" hole, foot of fuse, 4 tablespoons of 4FG blackpowder/Pyrodex.
If it's made out of Nalgene then it'll probably give it up.
FragmentedSanity December 15th, 2003, 03:31 AM

For the sake of simplicity why not just try baking soda and vinegar? - it will most likley just pop the lid off, but if the lid holds it should rupture the bottle. There are a bunch of
other mixes for pressure bottles - and I know they are lame as hell - but we are talking about blowing up a plastic bottle after all. If that fails just go for an oversize AP det in
water - no need to get too exotic its only a plastic bottle. Besides it'll get you extra mileage when you tell your mate it was all accomplised with $5.00 worth of stuff anyone
can get :p You just have to be sure you dont mind telling your mate about your hobby - or or could just present him the pieces collect your reward and leave him wondering
:D
Im interested to see how it goes anyway - I always like seeing my favorite excuse in action - "because they said I couldnt..."
@Aaron - love your sig. - in answer chaos theory dictates that yes they will - an infinite number of times :p
Aaron-V2.0 December 15th, 2003, 04:08 AM

The problem with Soda Bicarb and Acetic Acid is that the water in the dilute Acetic can absorb some CO2 created IIRC.
On second thoughts since you're doint this for a school the last thing they need to hear is "I just cut some visco cannon fuse off my 100foot roll, put a few tablespoons of black
powder from my powder mill...." and you're expelled. Thus I have to say to maintain the appearance of a "normal" non-pyro student go with dry ice and water, any kid work
their salt knows that mixture and a teacher would at most just tell you to be careful.
@FragSan, I've had that Sig for 6 months on 3 seperate forums, that's the first time it's been complimented. Thanks. :)
Lil_Guppy December 15th, 2003, 08:42 PM

Aaron-V2.0
Read this:Originally posted by Hang-Man
The reward is not run through the school, just a bet my friend made that I couldn't break it. It not run by or through the school, just a bet made with a friend. Back to the
topic, I would try filling it with water and putting either a COB or a large electric squib (depending on the size of the neck of the bottle) in it, putting it in the ground (or a large
bucket/tub or sand), retreating to a safe distance, and firing it. Yes I know that this method has been mentioned, but it is what I would try. A quick question: how strong is the
lid? The reason I ask is because if the lid is perhaps a little flexible, trying to blow it up may just result in the lid popping off without breaching the actual bottle walls, unless of
course you use the COB, which would shred it. If it does look like it may blow off before the bottle explodes, then dry ice or other similar methods may not do the trick...
chokingvictim78 December 15th, 2003, 08:58 PM

If the bottle is anything like the Nalgene ones I've seen, the cap is not very strong. A friend and I split the cost of one at summer camp (christian brainwash camp full of sissies
and evangelistic little pukes), just to see if we could destroy it with nothing but bare hands, and after 45 minutes of smashing it against miscellanious hard objects (hey,
nothing else to do anyway), I think I can safely say that they are not indestructible. The cap is just regular plastic, kind of like a thick soda bottle cap, and broke the second or
third time it was thrown. The rest of the bottle was seperated into 3 pieces, and had developed several holes before it shattered. Maybe replacing it with a pvc or aluminum
threaded endcap would work for a pressure bottle type method.
T_Pyro December 16th, 2003, 10:19 AM

Here's what I'd try:
Add enough conc. HCl till half, or three-quarters full. Wrap about 70 gms NaHCO3 in some chart paper (less absorbent), roll into a tube form, and shove into the bottle before
sealing the cap on it. Run! If the NaHCO3 reacts completely, the bottle will be up against about 20atm. of pressure. I'd also dump the bottle into a tank of water after sealing
the lid, so that the HCl does not splatter when the bottle bursts.
vulture December 16th, 2003, 10:49 AM

Using excess HCl will greatly reduce the solubility of CO2 in the solution, thus creating more pressure.
Keep in mind that the higher the pressure, the higher the solubility of CO2.
Is the bottle airtight? If so, try the implosion method. Stick it upside down in boiling water and let as much air escape as possible. Then quickly dump it in NaCl/H2O at -21C or
even better, stick it in dry ice. Also, temperatures around the sublimation point of CO2 will make the Nalgene very brittle.

The liquid Freon idea sounds like a winner to me. I would use liquid nitrogen, or CO2 (can you get this over the counter in the states?), instead.
Get a fair bit in, say 5% full, and the pressure will destroy it as it expands with the warmth. You could tie it on with rope if the top seems weak.
For the best effect, I suggest standing well back, waiting till the bottle bows outwards a fair way, then shoot it with an air rifle. It should shred nicely!
Gamma1985 December 18th, 2003, 02:22 PM

Razorwire may work. You can get it online at security sites ect.
Also, try filling the bottle with something (dense) and then a hammer and chisel might do the trick.
The main point is to make it rigid, as then it can be smashed more eisely by impact.
zammit January 3rd, 2004, 05:05 PM

Al foil and NaOH would generate enough gas (hydrogen) to blow the thing. If the container is strong enough it should make quite a bang too... ;)
Desmikes January 4th, 2004, 05:34 PM

If you simply take an ax and smash your bottle with it, while it rests on some thick metal/concrete surface, it is likely to get a tear. Then use leavers or car+chain to tear the
whole thing apart. Or how about some calcium carbide+water? Produced acetylene will either rapture the container or get the pressure up and then decompose, either way it is
not likely to survive.
Hang-Man January 4th, 2004, 07:36 PM

Yes, I have no doubt that I *could* break it without using explosives, but I want to blow something up anyway so why not this stupid bottle? I have been very busy with
school, and my camera finally died, but fear not a video will be produced.
freaky_frank January 7th, 2004, 03:27 PM

Just fill it completely with AP....and you'll have your fun :)
vulture January 7th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Yeehaw! Stuff it with AP! 300 grams atleast!
AP is only used for dets you moron. Using it as the primary charge will greatly reduce your life expectancy.
Wozzles January 7th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Why not make a Dryice/Acetone slurry, and keep the bottle in it for a while, then just smash it with a hammer? Doing this is a whole lot easier than trying to get liquid nitrogen
or freon if you feel like making it brittle.
Then again..packing the bottle full of PETN would be nice...
keith January 8th, 2004, 12:37 AM

I'd be careful not to leave powder burns.

Nalgene is far from invincible. I figured, "to hell with a big explosion" and put a small charge in the bottle (maby 2 grams of of AP packed into a thin copper pipe.) BANG! blew
a hole in the bottem and cracked it right up the side. It also launched it in the air several feet, and peppered the inside with copper shrapnal.
AP: one, High Impact plastic: 0.
skippy January 21st, 2004, 01:20 PM

ever thought of using acetylene?
that will not leave burn marks :)
you need an oxy welding set - only the acetylene part...

1: sit the bottle on a flat surface
2: open the tap slightly and let the acetylene trickle slowly into the bottle (acetylene is heavier than air)
3: when you smell the acetylene coming out the bottle -stop filling it. Put the oxy tanks away.
4: roll up a piece of newspaper and stick it into the end of the bottle
5: light paper and run!
try practicing with first with a plastic softdrink bottle first (about 1 litre size should get you started)
maybe you can think of a safer way to light it but thats what works for me :)
Blackhawk January 21st, 2004, 07:40 PM

Thats just stupid, if for some reason the burning gasses don't leave singe marks the gas simply burning with the top off would not destroy the bottle. And using some light
newspaper is just asking for trouble, it would not work a lot of the time or it would go off early becuase you filled the bottle too high, turbulance etc.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > MSN Encryption Plu gin
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Lil_Guppy D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 01:18 AM

I have to say this straight away: I am in no way prom ising what is suggested below, but I will try to do it if people show interest
in it.
I just want to know who here would be interested ina plugin for MSN which can encrypt/decrypt messages se nt/recieved via MSN.
Obviosly it wont have PGP type security, as I dont know that m uch about cryptography, but I was thinking about som e k i n d o f
RC4 encryption (modified of course). This is just a rough idea at the m o m ent (wh i c h e x p l a i n s t h e v a g u e n e s s : p ) , b u t l i k e I
said, if people are interested, I will loo k into it.
For people that m ay be interested in h elping, the language I currently know 'fluently' and the one I will be using is VB. I know
its n ot as good as others, but I dont care :p

Get a version of trillia n. It sup ports 128-bit blowfish encryption for AIM and ICQ , which is pretty solid.
Also, there's a PGP plugin for Trillian floating around som ewhere .
Lil_Guppy D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 07:55 PM

No offence, but Trillian sux IMO :p I honestly d ont know what it is about it, but I shudder at the thought of using it. Using
existing program s m eans that you are stuck with the algorithm it com es with. By writing your own, you can use pretty much
anything you like, plus you can alter the algorithm sligh tly to throw the casual 'listener' off track. It was just an idea. If noone
is interested, then I wont look into it. :)
Rhadon D e c e m ber 12th, 2003, 08:16 PM

By writing your own, you can use pretty m uch anything you like, plus you can alter the algorithm slightly to throw the casual
'listener' off track. In theory that's correct, but you have to know well wha t you're doing if you want to write a reliable algorithm
which is hard to reverse. Since Visual Basic is not what a n expert would usually choose I suppose that you're not too
experienced in that field, but that's only a vague presum ption of course :).

That is why you m odify an existing open source algorith m ;) And yes, I have done it before, and yes I have written a few
program s that utilise a m odified (or standard) encryptio n scheme. Using VB is not really a great limit unless you are doing
rather com p l e x s t u f f . O n e o f t h e m ajor lim its of VB is speed, but when you are se nding sm a l l a m o u n t s o f e ncrypted data (in
this case an instant m essage), the speed loss isnt really noticed (yes I know from experience :p). As for m y experience, I
h a v e b e e n p r o g r a m m ing in various languages for nearly 15 years...

I didn't want to run your abilities down :). I've never written a program in VB, but if speed is its only severe drawback that's not
t o o b a d b e c a u s e J a v a i s c o n s i d e r e d a m odern language and its slow, too (and that's one of the reasons why I don't like it).
I wonder what kind of changes you want to apply to the algorithm? Small changes will be likely to only sligh tly increase your
level of security, whereas deeper interventions could be prone to result in a security leak. But probably I'm telling you nothing
new with that.

Indeed you do have to watch what you change with regards to th e algorithm . Y o u k i n d a h a v e t o b a lance stability, security, and
s p e e d . M o s t o f t h e t i m e I fidd le around with the algorithm seed(s), internal keys or even add a few extra steps in. The latter is
actually my favorite, as you can then 'imbed' a second or third a lgorithm into the origional so you end up with a hybrid
s c h e m e . I h a v e a l s o a p p l i e d a l l t h r e e m ods (seed, key and extra steps) to an algorithm, which works m ost of the tim e , b u t
can lead to some pretty nasty bugs if its not done right. True, I have no way of testing the security or the algorithm properly,
but it would m ost like ly give som eone who is trying to find out the plaintext a major headache :p

In order to apply changes to the source code safely, you would need to regard the mathem atical background of the algorithm ,
but that can get com plicated, especially if you want to prove its correctness which you would need to do in o rder to b e
completely sure.
nbk2000 D e c e m ber 13th, 2003, 12:54 AM

Anyone can write an encryption program , but only a han dful of people in the world have th e skill to d o s o i n a m a n n er that
can't be trivially broken by the experts of the NSA, which is where your message will end up after going up the food-chain of
local/state/federal po lice if it's importa n t e n o u g h ( l i k e a m e m b e r of an "internet terrorist organization [AKA RS.org]) for them
to put the effort into it.
B e s i d e s , P G P s u p p l i e s p l u g - i n s f o r I C Q , which is what MSN is (or alm ost like) if I'm not m i s t a k e n .
Don't reinvent the wheel.

ICQ is far superior to MSN. MSN transm its way too m uch header stuff for m y liking.
I have very frequent disconnects here, first thing that comes back up is ICQ. MSN takes m ore than a minute to even notice it
has been disconnected...:rolleyes:
I b e l i e v e t h e r e ' s a l s o a I C Q program that uses blowfish.
W hat's wrong with Trillian? Have you ever used it? It consumes less mem ory than M S N a n d s u p p o r t s 5 m e s s a g i n g p l a t f o r m s .
Furthermore it comes with a shitload of neat plugins.
Automatic message splitting is one of them .
Encryption algorithms are very complex mathematical functions. Altering them will weaken them if you just do it random ly.

Unfortunately my com puters SMPS is o ut of service for whlie so I couldn't check this exactly but searching on google ( a h a a !
good old google,I just wonder what would have been the use of net if google wouldn't have been there).
Plug in for MSN to com bine with PGP is found to be som e "spyshield".
www.com m a n d c o d e . c o m / s p y s h i e l d . h t m l
So! MSN is free to download,so is spyshield and so is PGP.cool.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > giant fountain w/ whistle com p ?
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is it possible to incorporate a whistle com p, into Dan's Giant Fountain? I'm t rying to figure out a go od way to do this...
Bert D e c e m ber 15th, 2003, 02:00 AM

The giant steel fountain barely works with a nitrate based fuel. They often fail catastrophicaly if slightly und er pressed or
having a crack in the fuel- Adding a perchlorate based composition would guarantee they blew up every tim e , I M H O . I ' v e s e e n
m o r e t h a n a d o z e n a t t e m pts to m a k e t h e s e u s i n g A l l e n Clark's described methods. At lea st half have blown up.
EP D e c e m ber 15th, 2003, 02:04 AM

Beyond that, I've read if whistles have a m a x i m u m size , at which point they will just explode. Supposedly this is because the
whistle gets so loud that it cracks the compressed whistle comp, increasing surface area enough to cause an explosion.
Ever heard anything about this, Bert? Ever tried it?

A se minar at PGII convention on whistles included video of a 2" ID whistle. It was made by the presenter at his job, working for
the US Gov't. at Aberdeen Proving Ground. He didn't m ention an y theoretical m a x i m um size to my recollection. I've personally
seen properly functioning whistle rocke ts up to 1.5" ID. I'll see if I can fine m y no tes fom the sem inar.
fire vs. water D e c e m ber 15th, 2003, 08:02 AM

I don't want to post this in the pyrotechnic section, It has been answered, but I didn't really understand it...
W h a t i s t h e u s e o f R e d G u m i n t h e m ixture (in Dan W illiam's page... Clark's Gian t Steel Fountain)?

I can't get m y hands on any shellacs or anything similar (nor Re d Gum o f course...)...
I know its a Binder and a Fuel, but can I substitute som ething which is available to m e i n s t e a d o f t h e R e d G u m ???
any ideas?

fire vs. water-
If you can't understand the statement that it is the binder and the fuel, you are so week in theory that you have no business
posting outside the water cooler, m uch less playing with energetic m aterials.
If you can't get your hands on shellac, you are not very resourceful. It's available from any specialty store or website dealing
with furniture finishing on any continen t except, possibly, Antarctica.
Having read your posts in pyrotechnics where you ask if you can substitute CO COA MIX for red gum and bitch at people who
poin t out rather gently that yo u're not posting coherently, I would suggest you back off an d read for a while- If you keep
posting idiocy like that, you'll soon be gone.
To the rest-
Clark's giant steel fountain is not a beginner's project. It's a touchy, large device where a failure is going to be very noticeable,
a n d a s u c c e s s n e a r l y a s a t t e n t i o n g e t t i n g . I t ' s e x p e n s i v e a n d t a k e s a L O T o f m aterials. I know it's enticing, but start small &
work up- A lot of the questions regarding this d evice both here & in the p yrotechnics section have been pretty indicative of folks
tryin g to run before they're wa lking ste ady.

If you keep posting idiocy like that, yo u ' l l s o o n b e g o n e . I n d e e d .
(fire vs. wate r, in case you did n't get it: That was the last warning)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Urban Survival
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I'm about to be out of a place to live, because I lost my job. I'll be on the street with nothing more than my car. Anyone got any advice on how to get back on my feet? I don't
know anyone where I live, as I have moved very far away from where I grew up. I just moved here a few weeks ago. Anyone care to help me formulate a plan? I'm in
desperate need of money to buy food. I've got exactly $121 dollars left right now, and thats only available on my credit card. Thank you in advance.
-Vap0r

Stop wasting valuable money by accessing this forum. You'll do yourself and us a favor.

I don't know much but raeding archived therads of E&W on google I came across this book
http://tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html
If it helps;).
EDIT:any comments on the book?
FragmentedSanity December 15th, 2003, 05:05 PM

You've got a car, a credit card and Net access - you arent really that hard up. If lifes really got the best of you tuck your tail between your legs and go home.
mongo blongo December 15th, 2003, 05:57 PM

Become a prostitute and live on tree bark for food ;)
chemwarrior December 15th, 2003, 07:20 PM

A quote from a friend-
Either get a job or a gun you damn begger!
wrench352 December 15th, 2003, 07:33 PM

You can get free net acess from most librarys.Take care of your car,it is now taking care of you,stay after the oil and drive it as little as possible.Try the salvation army in your
area youl have a warm place to stay and hot meals.Large metro areas also have soup kitchens.Need employment fast?Pizza delivery, never done it myself,but I know lots of
people that do and make a half decent wage.Also, If you have a clean record,try a thorobred track.They have dorms for the help,kitchens and most of the facilities you
need.Buy a good pair of walkin shoes,break them in and tell the guard at the gate you want to "walk-hots".This is a job reserved for the inexperienced,retarded or the
inept,however it pays well and you get done early.Be patient when waiting for the job.Good luck!!!!
PS Oh yeah,you could do like everybody else and come down here to Florida and sleep on the beach.In San fransisco,I heard they pay their homeless upto $400.00 a
month,but I think thats about to change.
This thread could evolve into how to "live off the grid" in case Skynet comes after you.

Originally posted by vulture
Thanks for your unimformed reply sir, but accessing this forum doesn't cost me anything. Internet access is free in lots of places. Many fast food restraunts here have it, the
library, and schools.

Vapor, we dont give a shit if YOU are wasting YOUR money, but your waisting bandwidth on here. And thus costing us more money. Hence why Vulture told you to fuck off.
Ill reiterate what he said-


vap0r,
all I can say is, nice topic title!
Sadly, since you haven't told us where you are, how are we supposed to tell you anything?
The Anarch December 16th, 2003, 10:58 PM

Picking on a guy that's broke... yeah, you guys are tough shit alright.

Start looking in the paper/internet/local notice boards for potential jobs.
Make a resume or edit your existing one. Ask a friend to write a reference for you.
To make to most with the existing money you have, buy in bul fairly cheap stuff. A few Kgs of rice might be bland but keep you fed. Avoid fast food outlets as they are
expensive.
If you keep searching for a job, eventually you will get one. At a job interview just be polite, well presented and make it look like you know alot about the position.
wrench352 December 17th, 2003, 12:21 PM

Hey,Anach,I think they were giving him a hard time 'cause of the quality of some of his posts,
Temp or pimp services can get you cash in a flash and some cater to the homeless,remember "all the world needs ditch diggers".I almost was forced to go to one of these,you
had to meet them at 5am but they'd pick you up and take you to the jobsite.The jobs I heard were mostly cleanup,so lots of sweeping and raking.
Also rice while cheap can be a pain to prepare on the fly.When I lived in Louisville,I used to blow all my money on strippers and whores(ah,the joyous issuances of youth!)And
be broke on Monday.I learned to live on less than ten bucks a week.The fact I lived where I worked helped immensely.The key,two words:
YAY!PEANUTBUTTER!In a pinch you dont even need bread,no prep and lots of calories.Did'nt yall ever read "Marine Sniper"?Carlos Hathcock Lived on peanutbutter and
crackers.I hope you dont have an allergy.Also I remember in the last hot days of the cold war being told in worst case scenario,that dry dog food would do in a pinch.High in
carbs and protein,you dont need to cook it, unless your doin gravy train I guess.And no refrigeration needed.
One last thing in most states, in "Kwikie Marts"you can buy ephedrine packaged as"Yellow Jackets" or "Black Beauties".These are usually formulated to be very similar to
amphetamine,and may help you in certain situations, in a pinch.But thats your decision.Expect to look,feel and smell like hell after prolonged use.
One last thing in most states, in "Kwikie Marts"you can buy ephedrine packaged as"Yellow Jackets" or "Black Beauties".These are usually formulated to be very similar to
amphetamine,and may help you in certain situations, in a pinch.But thats your decision.Expect to look,feel and smell like hell after prolonged use.
or just plain drop dead after taking them... :-x Good luck to you mate...look in the newspaper, or find a "labor finder" program...such as Able Body or something...there are
many places to get food at shelters and shit, don't be afraid to ask...tell them your sitauation, they'll understand...good luck again.

Get a job or get a gun.
If you've allowed yourself to become homeless, then your options are very nearly exhausted. Drastic action is required. Allowing yourself to be debased to the level of a
beggar, sucking off the government tit is, to me, worse than prison.
Once you get into that system you're very likely to never escape it. It's not designed to get people back on their feet, but rather to entrap them as virtual slaves of the states
welfare system. There's no incentive to get you working when they can feed you scraps and let you die on your own, all the while using your fetid and unwashed walking
corpse to justify increasing the taxes to "feed and house the disadvantaged". :barf:
Show some respect for yourself and either get a job, something piss-easy to get if you're not picky, like a clerk/janitor/etc, or get a gun (make it if you have to) and start
TAKING what you need.
Only take cash, as that's the hardest thing to connect to you, whereas stolen items are traceable by serial numbers and such. NO cars, watches, cellular phones, etc, as it's all
worthless crap. ONLY CASH!
I've got a job. If I'm on the street I know how to make any number of weapons from things I can get for free, so I'd not be lacking for a means of taking my sustanence.
I'll kill you for your wallet before I ever beg you for your change.
And, regardless of your situation, don't look ratty. You know...the person who looks like they've existeded under a bridge so long that they could grow moss for a beard...that's
not good.
Always keep yourself presentable, as this allows you to walk right up to people who stay in condition white (unawares), unlike the ratty whino which people stay far away from
and on the look out for.

I kept my gun. Never robbed someone before, so i'm a little bit worried about having another guy pull a gun out on me. Any tips on staying in control? I also picked up a job
today for $6.50/hour, and they are going to pay me weekly. I am doing much better now, meeting lots of people, may have a roommate tomorrow, he is thinking it over.

Tactics are plentiful. Read up on it at gun-related sites.
Though standing behind thick concrete or wood (think phone poles) while they're in the open with no place to duck behind puts you in prime advantage. :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > W hat ever happened to FTP
Disk s
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Magas D e c e m ber 16th, 2003, 04:55 AM

Hey Guys
W h a t e v e r h a p p e n e d t o t h e i d ea of selling disk s of information from the ftp to mem bers only. W e discusse d it seve ral m onths
ago to raise m ony to assist th e FTP that C trl_C ran, so thought it time to reserect it to raise m oney to assist chemwarrior. We
showed a big interest here in O z and i know GB as well.
chemwarrior D e c e m ber 17th, 2003, 04:40 PM

If you guys show a re al interest in them , Im willing to do it. I dont think its a bad idea personally. If you guys are interested,
start a thread on it in the FTP section of the Forum.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Learning to Drive
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Many of the members here can drive and many either more w ill be getting there licence in the coming years. I am one of them.People in different parts of the world all have to
go though different systems in order to get a drivers licence.
In Western Australia to get your licence you first have to pass a practical driving test, then get record 50 hours of experience using a Log book, once you have done that if you
can pass a Hazard perception test you become a provisional driver or P-plater. You have P plate for two years then are entiltled to a full drivers licence. The system is stupid, but
the idea is that it will produce better drivers.
What is the system for getting your drivers licence in other countries?

I don't think I'm lying if I say Belgium is the country w here getting a drivers license is piss easy.
Basically, you have 2 options:
1) When you're 16 and 9 months old, pass your theory exam and take 14 hours of driving lessons. Then you get a provisional permit that allow s you to drive around with a
parent for 12 -18 months. Then you have to take your exam.
2) Wait till you're 18, take your theory exam and go driving around w ith your mom/dad. No lessons required! Then take your exam.
zaibatsu December 16th, 2003, 07:13 AM

The UK's quite simple really, although still quite tough.
You get a provisional licence just by filling in a form, but you can only drive w ith someone over 21 w ho's driven for three years (older brother, cousin, parents etc). When you
want to get your full licence you have to take a theory test, then a hazard perception test. The hazard perception test is like a video, and you have to click a button everytime
you see a potential hazard.
If you fail either the theory or hazard perception you have to take them both again. Then you do a practical test, which is a lot harder than in the states from w hat I've heard.
Then you're free to drive!
Chemical_burn December 16th, 2003, 03:26 PM

super pissass easy in the USA depending on the state your in when your 1 some states require 17 now you just go take the written exaime about 30 questions and then a quick
5 min driving test around the block or driving area they have and boom you have your license. :D
really stupid huh soooo fucking easy its not funny.

Chemical_burn, you guys don't have to use gears ;)
peterthesmart December 16th, 2003, 07:49 PM

Here in Minnesota, USA you can get your permit at age 15 after taking 30 hours of classes and passing a 40 question test. You can get your full license at age 17.

in my state to get your temporary liscence(you need a legal gaurdian in the car) 15 and 6mo to get your 'temps' as they are called you need to answer 35/50 driving common
sense law s correctly . then you take a driving class and 8 hours of an instructior in the car with you, then you need 50hrs of driving 12 of which have to be nighttime then at 16
you can get your regular lisence but i think they recently changed the age to 17

The laws in my state are very similiar to Minnesota's. I myself am stalling on the whole driving license thing. The whole 2-3tons of metal death boxes driving a foot away from
eachother thing really FREAKS me out. People are STUPID and I really don't think I'd like to put my life into the engineer's hands, nor the retards of society's hands. Am I the
only one that feels this way? I hope I'm not alone! ;)
scarletmanuka December 16th, 2003, 09:30 PM

Hey Flake2m i'm in WA too. Ive got my practical in a few weeks time, but i'm only going for auto. What part are you up to in the proccess?
Mumble December 17th, 2003, 12:54 AM

1) 15 1/2 get a permit after taking a common sense test
2) Drive for 30 hours w ith 10 being after sun set. Various road conditions are recomended.
3) 16 take the official test(aka drive around the block and don't hit someone and stop at stop signs), then sit at the DMV for 6 hours to get your sorta official licence
4) Wait 9 months without getting a moving violation. You can also not drive betw een midnight and 5 AM, and only have one other person besides family members.
5) Unrestricted after 9 months(16 days aw ay for me)
or
1) Wait until 18 and just do step three.
static_firefly December 17th, 2003, 01:56 AM

In queensland you may go for your leaners test w hen your 16, w hich is 30 questions. With that you can drive only with someone in the seat with an open licence. 6 months
after getting your Ls you take a practical exam where you drive around and reverse park and the such. Passing that you get your P licence, where you get only one point and
cant drive around with any alcohol in your system. After 2 years on your Ps you can apply for your open licence where you get 12 points to blow on speeding and other offences
and can legally dive w ith a limit of 0.05% alcohol in your blood. How ever the Learners test is quite pointless....when you have the cheat sheet like me :)
Fear December 23rd, 2003, 04:30 AM

In North Carolina, (southeastern usa) At 14 1/2 you can take a 15 hour course w ith 3 hours of driving, and take a test on road signs, to get your permit, and at 16 you can get
a full licence with a minimum one mile road test. At 18 you can get a full licence with just the sign and road test. I have had 2 classmates killed and one is still in recovery after
a wreck 5 months ago, only in the US.
As for the human factor, take this recent discussion to one of my friends
Me "Have I ever told you that your a great driver?"
"no"
"that's Right, your not!"
Flake2m December 23rd, 2003, 08:27 AM

I am still only a phase one driver. Though I am going to get an Automatic licence for now since it much easier to get. I am not going to rush learning to drive as I'd rather be a
good driver then a shithouse driver.
Once again the lesson of driving safely is often earned the hardway, a fellow classmate died in a car accident on a property while learning to drive. While he was a great bloke
he was not to wearing a seatbelt, so w hen the car crashed he suffered head injuries.
Mumble December 23rd, 2003, 01:46 PM

A kid(w ho I didn't even know existed) at my school died a couple of months ago. It really pisses me off though. He was out street racing, w ithout a licence, without w earing a
seatbelt, and get was going about 3 times the recomended speed on a sharp corner and he flipped the car and died. Now they treat him like he was a damn Saint. He gets a
page in the year book and they're buying him a star. People who wouldn't have anything to do w ith him while he w as a alive are like crying and making tributes to him. Some
fat bitch(and I do mean FAT) got his face or something tattooed on her leg. Basically we shut down school for 2 days because someone seriously broke the law and died in the
process.
Now the town is trying to get some stricter guidelines for driving. It's a big load of BS. They're trying to extend this graduated drivers licence from 9 mo. to a year and have
stricter penalties for breaking the limitations of the licence. That doesn't bother me though. By the time they get around to making some laws I'll be well off it, and they can't
touch me.
Anthony December 24th, 2003, 11:32 AM

I know, it's like that everywhere. I wish some headteacher with some balls would stand up and tell the truth; "yeah, I couldn't stand the shit, good to see he's reaped w hat he's
sow n".
The w hole driving test system is increasingly becoming just a money-making scam. They keep adding stages just to give you more opportunity to fail, and retests obviously
mean more money. For example the written test and hazard perception tests are seperate tests, but fail one and you must retake both. Also, they're adding to the practical test
- soon you'll have to dip your oil and shit before driving.
Practical test here is approx 40min of town and out-of-town driving. Overtaking, slip roads, roundabouts, junctions, hill starts (clutch control) etc. Plus your maneouveres: three-
point turn (not required in USA where all roads are wide enough to allow U-turns ;) ), reverse around a corner, reversing into a parking bay, and parrallel park.
All reversing ones not required in USA :)
Pass rate in my area is 18% IIRC, waiting time is approx 2 months if you take first available slot, and using an instructor will cost you 70+ a go. If you don't hire an instructors
car it's cheaper but your chances of passing are greatly reduced.
Still, sounds less hassle than Isle of Mann or Australia. At least no P plates or restrictions here, and w e get 6pts for the first tw o years. Points system should be scrapped though.
It cost me over 2000 to get a driving license, possibly 2500.
If you get 6pts, you start from scratch. Personally, I'd much rather have a proper driving ban.
Of course, once you pass you then have the joys of motoring which involves constantly crying and opening your wallet...

"Still, sounds less hassle than Isle of Mann or Australia."
Umm .. nope. 18% pass rate!, 2 months w ait!, 2000-2500 pound! I think them three points rule that out!
I guess our pass rate w ould be 80% w ait a w eek and one to two hundred Aus. dollars.
Im too old to know what this two-P plate system is but P plates w ere good, the schoolgirls (car sluts) knew where to look!
EDIT - This is for NSW, sounds the same as Queensland.

In NZ
when youre 15 you sit a written test to get your Learner License. You have to drive round for 6mths with a full licensed driver. After 6mths you sit a practical test to get your
restricted license, you can drive by yourself now but carry no passengers. After 18mths of driving yourself you can sit your full license practical..
Jumala December 26th, 2003, 09:25 PM

In germany you have to be 18 years old. Then you can visit a driver school w here you take lessons in theorie and praktical driving. How much lesson you need depends on your
ability to absolve the tests. When you are good enough your teacher register you for the tests.
The costs are 25-40 a hour additional the basic charge and costs of the test.
The driver licence is divided in different classes for cars, motorbikes, busses or trucks.
In the first year the licence is on probation.
The cost are high but not far as high as in england.
To have an ow n car is more expensive. Newbies have to pay 250% of the bas ic insurance premium. Additional is a motor vehic le tax and a gas pric e of 1,10 (= 1,35$) for a liter.
My insurance premium is at 35% now(250 a year) newbies have to pay 2000-3000 a year. Depends on the insurance and the car.
Would be interesting to know your costs.

I was always under the impression that in Germany, the practical dirving test was much longer and more expensive than in the UK. Including night time, bad w eather and
motorw ay driving as standard. The result being a higher standard of driver.
New drivers here do not pay any extra fuel or vehicle tax.
Insurance is more expensive due to loading by the insurance companies. Average premium w ould probably be 1000 - 1500 Euros. Typically males pay 50% more than females.
Road tax is 165 per year if you are in top bracket like me - 1.4L engine or larger (screw y system really).
Fuel here is currently 0.73.9/litre which is 1.05 Euros.
Motoring is a crippling expense. I'm forecasting a total outlay of 4500 for this year (ends mach 2004). The purchase cost of the car is only 750 of that.
Fuel is the worst. I do at least 400 miles a week. So I end up putting in 40 of petrol every 6-7 days. It really does make you w ant to cry :(
Jumala December 27th, 2003, 08:33 PM

I have written something mistakeable. The motor vehicle tax and a gas price has to be payed by everyone. It isnt different for new drivers.
The motor vehicle tax depends on the cylinder capacity and the exhaust gas emission.
New cars with very less emissions are free from tax for the first years and old cars without exhaust gas cleaning are extreme high in tax.
The insurances give dis counts for every year witout an accident. The insurance c ompanys are extreme different in its premium. I have a cheap direkt insurance (250 ). Other
companys want nearby double as much.
The costs for the driver licence depends most on how fast you learn. Only 6-8 practical hours are prescribed.
In big citys with extreme traffic the people need 30-50 or more hours to drive good enough for the test. This makes it expensive.

Thats strange, that European countries would pay so much for fuel. The prices around here range from high 80's low 90cents AU per litre, and considering a euro is aprox 1.5
AUD, you are paying the equivalent of $1.50AU/L, fuel only gets that much here if you are in a very 'outback' location because of all the extra transport needed to get the fuel
there.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Aluminum+Pyrodex
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Randy D December 16th, 2003, 07:30 AM

My question is I just recived my order of Aluminum flake 2 micron and at $20.00+ a pound
can I use pyrodex as a stretcher? I am only using it for flash powder.The formula I am using is:
Potassiom Perchlorate 63% Aluminum Dark 27% Sulfer 10%
and the standard KCIO4 70% and Al 30%. Is there any thing in pyrodex that I should be worried about? Has any one done this and if so what is a good ratio as not to effect
the flash powder much? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
y2kminuteman@yahoo.com
Crazy Swede December 16th, 2003, 04:25 PM

What exactly do you mean by "use pyrodex as a stretcher"?

I THINK he means that he wants to extend his limited supply of flash making chemicals by diluting the flash with Pyrodex (a readily available perchlorate based black powder
substitute).
Dangerous? Probably not. Has it been done before? Probably, by some other kid who couldn't get all the flash chemicals he wanted. A good ratio? Unknown. I'd say using 0%
Pyrodex would be my choice... Because Pyrodex costs much more than flash powder for me, since I'm not getting ripped off $20.00/lb. for Aluminum. Last time I bought
Pyrodex, it cost more than GOEX BP. If you've really just GOT to stretch your limited amount of perchlorate flash, about 1/3 home made meal BP to 2/3 flash by weight will
work OK providing you've got a good strong case, and it will be considerably cheaper than using Pyrodex. The sound of the explosion will change somewhat, from a higher
pitched bang to a lower pitched boom.
hpy2bhre January 1st, 2004, 09:04 PM

The absoloute best "stretcher" I've ever used is a fast double base smokless powder. I think there was a thread on this somewhere. I think 20 to 25 % by volume works the
best. My favorite powder is winchester 231. If you add the 231 to the oxidizer then add the metal powder it seems to mix way easier and more complete. I find the boom to
be a little lower pitched and the sound really carries well. With a 70 % perchlorate 30% dark aluminium to 25% by mixed volume 231, the device just goes away. Theres
hardly any smoke or flash, it just goes bang!
Bert January 2nd, 2004, 02:38 PM

Bullseye also works well- It's still more expensive than flash, though.
keith January 3rd, 2004, 01:39 PM

What website is best to use for buying all the needed suplies for Flash. 70perchlorate 20charcoal 10sulfer is the best ratio to use.
As a "stretcher", use FFFFG black powder or Pyrodex.
Bert January 3rd, 2004, 02:32 PM

There is a site policy against disclosing sources of useful materials in posts. Do your own research.
If the 70:30:10 ratios you post is supposed to be for flash, you don't know what flash is.

I know I'm sorry it was very early when I posted that and I had just woken up. 70/30 potassium Perchlorate/AL is what I meant.
It's been a while since I've made flash. When using pyrodex or black powder remember that their burn rates are rated with F's and a G. The more Fs before the G the faster it
will burn. Black powder and Pyrodex will burn alot faster than smokeless because smokeless powder has burn rate reducing agents on it. So even though it's made of
Nitrocellulose and Nitroglycerin, the burn rate agents make it burn quite slow.
Blackhawk January 3rd, 2004, 09:40 PM

I was under the impression that pyrodex IS smokeless powder, correct me if I'm wrong though
zaibatsu January 3rd, 2004, 10:04 PM

As bert says, it is a substitute for blackpowder and creates less smoke than BP but still significant amounts. It's not smokeless powder in the same sence as nitrocellulose based
powders.
Bert January 3rd, 2004, 11:42 PM

The popularity of Pyrodex in the US has more to do with the fact that the manufacturers were able to get it classified as a "flammable solid" rather than as an explosive.
Hence, they can send it through the mail and dealers have less stringent storage requirements than they would for black powder.
Pyrodex is composed mostly of potassium perchlorate, sodium benzoate and potassium nitrate. It is a hideous thing to use in a good gun- Unless you live in an area of very
low humidity, it is not possible to clean the gun quickly enough to prevent dammage. If you have a black powder weapon you care about, use black powder only! Fuck the
smoke- that's a BENEFIT, not a liability!
Keith, this is the watercooler and you won't get banned for it here- But you still might want to read and learn, rather than try to educate for a while.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > AP m ass production
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View Full Version : AP mass production
chemofun D e c e m ber 16th, 2003, 12:53 PM

H e y d o e s a n y b o d y k n o w a g o o d w a y t o m a s s p r o d u c e a c e t o n e p e r o x i d e ? I ' m m ean like a pound per batch at least. If not that
good then any advice to increase yields would be appreciated.
Advisory D e c e m ber 16th, 2003, 01:20 PM

W hy do you want to mass produce it? Going to be selling it or something? lol
zaibatsu D e c e m ber 16th, 2003, 01:42 PM

Locked for your own safety. Mass producing AP makes you sound retarded.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Isopropyl peroxide?
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Although I did do a search, there weren't any topics, that I could see of, on this...just curious as to if any of you have
e x p e r i m ented with this...I figure I'll be trying som e stuff out this weekend, to see what I can come up with. I pulled the synth
from Science Madness...I'll po st here, or in another post if there is one, m y results of using 30% H202 as well as 30% HCl
instead of the other diluted fo rm s that were previously used.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Nigger manual
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I know there is already a jokes thread, but I thought this was hilarious enough to warrant it's own thread. http://
members.odinsrage.com/kigy/niggermanual.html Without a doubt, one of the funniest things I have EVER seen on the net.
chemoleo December 17th, 2003, 11:19 PM

hmmm.... funniest EVER site, huh??
I am sorry, but it is (at least to me, as a non-nigger) a bit short of taste, and the humour is rather simple. I wouldnt want to
be a 'nigger' checking this site, I don't think I would find it funny.

Holy shit! I saw this site a while ago but could never find it again. It probably would have been fine in the other joke thread,
but whatever. Thanks for posting the link.
Don't everyone gang up on chemoleo. I used to be big on the anti-racism myself.

Flashpoint, don't assume just 'cause one of the big dogs is a neo-nazi that everyone is... There's all kinds of people here.
Stupid little twats an inch from being banned, hyper intelligent grad students, nazis, anarchists, libertarians, apolitical powder
heads, feds- and, for all you know, "niggers". That word has been used to describe other people with skin darker than yours
besides the ones who came from Africa, in case you hadn't heard.
Got to agree if that's the funniest thing you've ever seen, you don't get out much.
frogfot December 18th, 2003, 04:03 AM

"banning for being soft"?!? Buahaha, flashpoint, you didnt get enough of sleep when you posted this, right?

As a sidenote, has anyone seen this : http://someonewhocares.org/monkeys

Flashpoint, SHUT THE FUCK UP. Chemoleo has much more interesting things to tell than you.
If you think you can survive here by preaching nazism and racism to death, you're wrong.
You haven't been posting anything but bullshit.
As of now, I'll use any silly excuse to flame your silly ass to death. :mad:

Some of it was a little funny, but not exactly the funniest I have ever seen.
Have a look at darwinavards.com for some really fun stuff. but you all probably knew that already.
Flashpoint, , Im glad you posted this in the watercooler, or you'd probably get banned for posting crap. Read on and check
other members posts and you'll probably not come back, since you realize that you post crap.be prepared to get flamed a lot,
if you can't handle it than you might as well just forget this website, because you'll end up saying dumb shit and getting
banned by someone.

I suspect that's supposed to be http://www.darwinawards.com
Not trying to nitpick or be a smartarse, just trying to help.
All these regulations and stuff is seriously hurting the important role of Natural Selection,

I found it quite tasteless, really primitive actually. I had more fun laughing at the main page. I personally see nothing wrong
in the Nig ger race. I don t really like aborig inals but o ther dark skinned pe ople a re ok. On the main page I he ard that KKK
fella yabber on about shit now that was funny.
Anath December 18th, 2003, 09:04 AM

Well, nobody likes Aboriginals.. not even Niggers! ;)

I'm not racist, nor am I nazi or whatever...I have plenty of friends besides white friends...I'm just saying I figured that post
wasn't necessary and yeah I did have a bad night whoever asked, but there is no sense in even responding to a fucking post
if your going to be a complete tard' about it.
::EDIT:: By the way nigger doesn't even have to refer to a fucking black person, so if your illiterate and don't know what words
mean...shut the fuck up.
Def for Nigger : Used as a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people.
I suppose when you say it, in the past has been referred to black people, but today, its a word, I hear white people call each
other. So understand, that when someone, like a "big dog" says this, they probably don't really mean black person, they are
just using it as a phrase to say your fucking ignorant and probably illiterate. Vulture, by the way, flame on. I'll be ok with that,
considering you haven't stopped buttfucking my threads since I started posting here. I'm here to learn, not argue...fuck off.

but there is no sense in even responding to a fucking post if your going to be a complete tard' about it.
Au contraire- Flaming idiots or just plain low quality posts is a high art around here. If they occur outside the water cooler, it's
generally followed by a swift kick.
::edit:: In the 1 month you have been a member, you haven't read much have you? :)

I have read so much, I want to puke. But then again, I've read so much, and learned so much, there is a wealth of
information available here, thanks to megalomania. But I don't see why everyone can't just chill out and not be a dick
everyonce in a while. I can see when your tired of having newbie's come in and say dumb shit...and have it happen every day,
that would get to me too. But there are some newbie's, that really want to learn more about the the hobby and chemistry
itself. I'm more interested in chemistry than blowing shit up. I'm here to simply learn, and enjoy myself...not get yelled at
through a monitor. Half the people yelling and screaming are probably little fucks, and would get stomped if they ran their
mouths where I come from. But aside from that...lets just drop it...maybe I was a little harsh, but half the people that
responded to it, are harsh in other posts...its just because the word nigger was used...so I'll refrain from using that word if it
offends anyone, despite what I said above.

I can see when your tired of having newbie's come in and say dumb shit
You're still a newbie and you're still saying dumb shit. So either live with getting your ass flamed off or shut up and learn.
Reading is not good enough. You need to LEARN.
so I'll refrain from using that word if it offends anyone, despite what I said above.
You're free to say what you think, but then also let others say what they think.
Spanrice4U December 18th, 2003, 05:16 PM

As much as I laugh at nigger jokes...the site has Down Syndrome. That site is retarded as hell Wanna real nigger joke?
Why are nigger's eyes always red after sex??
-The Pepper Spray

Maybe if you damn Aussies hadn't invaded the aboriginies' land you wouldn't have a reason to hate them. I don't mind much
when people say things about blacks or jews; sure they've faced some hardships in the past, but they're still whining about it
years later and taking attention away from native groups that have been practically wiped out.
If we lived like natives life would be more fulfilling anyway.

Very true, indeed. I'll be polite enough to refrain from using racist remarks, as well as respecting others including you, and
maybe I can receive a little respect....after all, I'm not here to do any harm to anyone, or flame anyone, just simply here to
read, experiment, and learn more about explosive compounds and chemistry.

flashpoint, people don't get given respect, they earn it and then are shown it. you've neither earnt it or shown it so enough of
this childish bickering and accept your place at the bottom of the ladder. the alternative is accepting a place in the BFL section.

Respect is there to be earned. Let me say that you're not doing well at earning it. You don't get respect for posting that you
want respect either.
You need to prove you're worthy of our respect. That does not include starting many new threads or postwhoring. Keeping your
mouth shut will sometimes get you more respect than just saying whatever you like.
EDIT: Kingspaz beat me to it. *Bow for the king of spazzzz*

Funny thing about the people who say "I'm not a racist"...is that they often are! :)
I've been reading through the archives and seen various arguments from '00 where people say "Racisits are stupid!" and
some-such.
These same people now, in '03, are saying how "The muds are taking over my country".
I'll not name names, but I could, so I don't feel the need to point them out to everyone else because I know of their
hypocrisy. Me, I've always been a racist, I've never changed on that, so my convictions are rock solid. :)
Zeitgist, remove the e-mail addy from your sig. That's what the e-mail button is for. :p
Flashpoint....:rolleyes:
Take a week off from posting (until the 27th, effective immediately) or be banned. If you can't come up with something better
than what you've been posting, we don't need to hear it.
Someone provide him with the URL for the thread with VoD's silly rant so he may see what happens to people who don't take
the hint.
I always find it funny (though sad) when n00bies start saying how another newbie is breaking the rules and will be banned. :)
Like they're immune or something. ;)

1. This reference to Niggers had fuck all to do with white people flashpoint, and you fucking know it.
2. It wasn't even very well written - if you're going to go to those lengths to make a racist point, why not put some effort into
what you write?
3. It, like all bigotry was offensive to the eye - maybe it was sattire, but I don't think so. And when you see something like
that, from a genuinely racist person, it's like looking into their eyes and seeing the emptiness, the absence of love and the
futility they feel.
It annoys the fuck out of me that there is so much racism on the board, especially coming from people who are obviously
retards in any case. I make Irish jokes, Nigger jokes, wop jokes, spic jokes and all the rest, but I have no ill feeling in my
heart. All the "ethnic" people who know me know that I have no malice. This is not a black vs white thing, I just hate bigotry of
all kinds.
I'm always amazed that some of the most vitriolic bigots are those with least right to be that way. And since you've mentioned
hjim, NBK's a good example. I have a lot of respect for NBK overall, he's intelligent, has a sense of humour that I get on with,
and he has a lot to offer a board like this. And having crossed swords with him over this on many occasions in the past (as
have plenty of the older members - in case you weeny nazis think otherwise) I actually have some respect for the passion of
his Nazi convictions - Unlike most of you wankers, he's basing his opinion on a pretty difficult life, where he's seen the worst
side of people - mainly noticing the nigs.
That doesn't make him any less wrong, but most of you seem to be talking like this because you haven't the wit to work out
that the world is a BIG place, with an enormous diversity of life, culture and humanity. You can bitch about that like NBK does,
and get all huffy and defensive. OR, you can get out there like I do, and open your eyes to the good in the world.
I've spent a lot of time in India, and you can see human shit pretty much everywhere you look. Having said that you can also
see incredible beauty, and some amazing thing or other wherever you are. Some people go through India and ALL they see is
shit - that's what Bigots are like, they LOOK for the shit because it confirms their beliefs. Why bother opening your minds when
you can keep them closed - it's SO much easier!
And back to NBK, he's a nazi, and part of the master race right? Well how come he's spent the last couple of years pumping
gas and selling slurpies? How come he's drifted around the country, hating everything, looking down on the
"untermensch".....selling fucking SLURPIES. It must really grate when some flash homie in his rude benz cruises in. But he,
like other bigots, spends his time hating and resenting, instead of working to get his own. NBK has an AMAZING mind (and I'm
not ass kissing, he knows what I'm talking about) and if he put it to some use in business, or industry then he could make a
million. If he was in the industry I'm in, with a bit of effort he could probably make SEVERAL million. But instead, he's wasting
his life on this forum, and thinking about crime.
This isn't a rant against NBK, it's a me getting fucking SICK of the new retards on the board*, and it's me getting fucking SICK
of another shitty little bit of moronic racism on here - this is an explosives and weapons forum, not a hate forum. How come it
attracts so many narrow minded cunts.
Nihilist, I'm VERY disappointed, I didn't realise you were such a cunt :confused:
*I have noticed an enormous rise in the tolerance of idiocy on this board recently, not just by mods, but by other people too.
What is it, RETARD week? (Or should I say mentally challenged week - in case you think I'm being offensive to retards)

erm..Arkangel if I may quote you I make Irish jokes, Nigger jokes, wop jokes, spic jokes and all the rest, but I have no ill
feeling in my heart I simply posted a link to something that I thought was funny. I didn't support either side of the real issue
in my post. I simply posted a link to something racist, just the same as you have posted racist jokes(as have I), I don't see
why you think I'm a "cunt" because of that. If you want my opinion on racism, i'm really not sure where I stand on the subject.
I think there is definitely one race that is superior, simply owing to pure science, since due to probability one race SHOULD
have evolved as superior to the others. However, that doesn't necessarily mean I hate the "inferior" races, whichever ones
they may be.

Wow... this thread turned to shit prett fast. Arkangel, you say that you make some ethnic jokes yourself, so then why can't
Nihilist? I think he thought of the site as nothing but a joke. You'll notice he hasn't replied once since he started the thread,
probably waiting for things to settle down and for people to laugh at the damn site. True that site was made by a klansman,
but I don't think any racist jokes that you or I might tell were thought up by hippies.
I used to shit my pants every time someone said something racist of any sort. Then I realized... what's the point? Blacks and
jews certainly didn't act any friendlier to me for it, so now I couldn't care less.
I definitely don't believe in any goddamn master race either. I probably hate whites as a whole(yeah, I'm white) more than
any other race. Whites have been directly responsible for all of the shit in the world. Pollution, overpopulation and
overcrowding, loss of human freedom... all from the glorious inventions of the white race. It's because of things like those that
I don't even waste my time worrying about racism anymore.
chemoleo December 21st, 2003, 11:49 PM

I wrote this before the E&W forum went down.
Hmm, I don't think I hit the 'popularity button' there.
Just read this thread now, and I think most has been said, but there are a few things I think I should point out :)
Flashpoint:
I did indeed read quite a bit in the forum (as much of a surprise this may be to you), but never got round to posting a huge
amount as I am not *that* experienced with explosives (although I did play with a few). I thought it better to accumulate
knowledge in this field before starting to post stuff; before the sadly necessary practise of banning becomes necessary. My
experiences lie elsewhere, as people from SM may know :)
Anyway. Nihilist was making a very strongly directed point, and I thought it only *fair* to point out the OTHER end of the
spectrum, as unpopular as it may be. Sorry, I am a strong believer of free opinion, and if this is unpopular, so be it. I dont
have to swim with the flow just for popularity's sake. And if this gets me banned, then so be it, at least I stood up to my
beliefs.
To be honest, I think it's a very sad thing to not to respect someone else's opinion. Especially, if you can't come up with a
decent reason/argument against it. If someone is strongly racist, I personally accept that on the *only* grounds that this
person has *solid* reasons for it, as misleaded (in my admittedly biased opinion) this may be. And you have given me no
reason to accept why you believe what you believe, as your argument solely based on 'popularity'. I am sorry, that's sad to
me. At least make an argument, with a solid foundation.
Getting banned for 'being soft'? I have read the rules, but I don't think being a 'softy' was was an issue there, especially in the
water cooler. Members should be judged by what they contribute in terms of knowledge/experience/creativity, not by what their
'political' or ethical opinions are. The latter is beyond the mission of this forum, so they should have no bearing on the former.
Do correct me if I am talking bollocks on the last one :)
At last... here's a little story. In Australia, I got robbed and threatened with my life by aboriginals, whilst camping close to a
land of theirs. Robbed sounds easy. But not if you have a knife on your throat, while blood is making a little waterfall on your
sleeping bag, with a broken bottle INSIDE your ear.... grinding that head bone of mine. Anyway, I got out, with hospitalisation,
and twisting one of the motherf**kers wrists so that he screamed (All they wanted was my money (calling me white pig all the
time), which I was sitting on, and which they never got ... so much for being soft ey?)
After, I got VERY uncomfortable when I saw Aboriginals at Ayers Rock and Alice springs, it's like being a little child after having
touched a hot cooking plate and being scared of it for some time after. Once I go back there (which I will) I clearly know I will
be avoiding those places. Nonetheless, I don't hate Aboriginals in general (although I would love to find those particular boys
(5 altogehter) and give them a nice retribution, on equal terms, not unfair shit like attacking someone in the tent whilst
sleeping). And you know what? This hasn't made me racist, who knows I might be doing the same if I was in their desperate
situation. I learned I need to be more on guard ( I was pretty young then, merely 21). But you need to be careful in any city/
place, regardless whether it's dominated by *blacks* or *whites* or any other colour. They will cut you up just as mercilessly.
So, Flashpoint, what's your argument apart from *apparent* popularism?
I am not soft, I just think fairness is a requirement to be fair, to anyone. So, don't single me or anyone out, hoping it will
make you more popular by getting me flamed/banned.
That's all folks. I am not talking out of my ass I think, even if you may disagree, I was trying to finish this up without
sounding like some ultra-lefty, being tree hugging and all that... which I am not I think ... :D:D
PS. Funny, when I posted the first response, I expected some level of controversy, but certainly not THIS!
metal dragon December 22nd, 2003, 12:53 AM

I know I don t have even thirty posts under my name. But I have noticed these people all try to act like NBK. I person ally
think NBK is a smart man who applies his smarts to the world of crime. Shall we say a criminal genius? But non the less on
the point of racism, I like a few good racist jokes but that site was totally and utterly tasteless only idiots would laugh at de-
grading another human being down to a cage. Somebody commented on the aboriginals, they overall a bunch of fucking
dick heads from the people I have meet, d on t get me wron g I have meet some nice ones and I am sure I will meet m ore.
Let me give you an example I was walking down the street and a little abo half the size of me started calling me names and
throwing objects, of course he was severely beaten back into place. Then I had to deal with a whole clan of them, which was
scary but I did a good job with th ose little skinny shits . As I wa s taking on the last few, a black man brok e it up he wasn t
aborigina l but what se emed to be an American-Niggro. I d on t gen eralise with skin colour or race b ut if you meet 100 Abo s
and 99 of them are dickheads of course you will assume the they are all like that. As far as I am concerned some racism is
ok but when you go over bored it is wrong and makes you look petty. Here in Australia there are the dickhead race that
nobody likes and tries to keep their blood pure by insist AKA the Abo. They are a public nuisance and this being statically
proven most petty crime in Australia is done by Abo s.
The Anarch December 22nd, 2003, 02:31 AM

What the fuck? You hate abbos but then you have the nerve to say that americans aren't allowed to have any harsh feelings
toward afro-americans? At least the abbos have a damn good reason to be upset, you STOLE their fucking land. Afro-
americans have been freed for a fucking long time now, have all the opportunites of whites(if not more), and they're still
bitching.
vulture December 22nd, 2003, 05:09 AM
The most important point to remember from this thread, is that some lame fucking cunt (flashpoint in this case) can send a
whole lot of respected and experienced people into a mindless frenzy.
metal dragon December 22nd, 2003, 05:20 AM

Maybe I made my self-unclear, that if you have adequate reason to hate a race, not just because of there colour than do so
but if you wish to generalize and say ALL blacks are bad that is wron g. I hate Abo s b ut don t Neg ros they are both black but
only one pisses me off. If for some whacked reaso n the Ab o s cha nged there attitude I wou ld no longer feel a hate for them.
Nihilist December 22nd, 2003, 05:24 AM

erm...metal "color" of skin is not a race. Racism is hating a race, not a color. And I don't think anyone on this forum is stupid
enough to hate someone based on the color of their skin(take literally here). For example, NBK would still hate an african
american even if he or she was albino and thus had white skin.
Blackhawk December 22nd, 2003, 07:16 AM

The thing with aborigines is that yes their country was taken by the BRITISH unfairly, but in this is the key point. Australia was
not conquered by the Australians, it was conquered by the BRITISH, and why is it that even after over 200 years the aborigines
are still complaining about it to AUSTRALIANS, it wasn't even us in the first place. But even ignoring that fact, the governments
in this counrty have long scince appologised and given copious amounts of welfare to these people, and are still doing so,
because they are VERY distantly related to some people that were quite hard done by, I mean for christs sake, how about that
'National Sorry Day' we had a while ago. Take ab-study, a race that was hard done by over 200 years ago and has long scince
regained the societal level of the white colonisers, will still get a substantial reduction on that mark required to enter any
specific university course not because they specifically deserve it, but becuase they can prove that they are something like 1/
64th aboriginal, I know that is I were aboriginal I would like to get into a UNI course because I DESERVED IT, not because I
took a government handout that ASSUMED I was underprvalleged because of my colour and background.
My $0.02
nbk2000 December 22nd, 2003, 02:25 PM

Oh shit...I feel a major rant coming on...batten down the hatches 'cause it's gonna blow!
...the world is a BIG place, with an enormous diversity of life, culture and humanity. You can bitch about that like NBK does...
There are 6 billion sentient life forms, but only a few hundred million humans, on this planet. This is an enormous diversity
(PC buzz-word!) of life, surely, but very little of it counts as human life.
And culture? The culture of what? The humans or the untermensch? What culture do the untermensch have?
India, for instance, has the Kama Sutra...a book all about fucking. Truely an inspiring piece of literature for the ages. What
else have they written that anyone can name or would bother reading? They worship rats and cows, all while they starve to
death because they give their food to fat rats and fat cows.
Africa? Surely they've got some good culinary history, what with all the cannibalism right up to this very moment that's going
on in there. Architecture perhaps? Like the pyramids? Oh, wait, that was a white man (with red hair, no less) called Cheops who
had the first one (or biggest one?) built. Did they ever figure out the wheel? I don't think they ever did, a whole continent
worth of them. Neither did the american indians.
Asia? China had paper and gunpowder for millenia, but they've got very little history because every emperor had the history
scrolls of his predecessor burnt and they never figured out how to use gunpowder for anything more than firecrackers till the
white man showed them how. The japs got stuck in a time warp for 400 years by refusing to acknowledge the universal
constant of change.
And back to NBK, he's a nazi, and part of the master race right? Well how come he's spent the last couple of years pumping
gas and selling slurpies? How come he's drifted around the country, hating everything, looking down on the
"untermensch".....selling fucking SLURPIES.
In response (to quote Adolph Hitler from Mein Kampf):
"...honest labor, no matter of what sort, disgraces no one."
Unlike the legions of porch monkeys/wet backs/boat people/paki's/and the rest of the untermensch that you refer to as
"human" who come to America and suck off the government tit, I work. :)
No welfare for me.
And if I didn't have a job, I wouldn't be some beggar either as, like I've said elsewhere, I'll kill you for your wallet before I beg
for your change.
Niggers are, for the most part, work-adverse. EVERY job I've had, the niggers couldn't hang with it, being fired for stealing or
not showing up. How fucking hard is it to show up everyday and not steal something PETTY? It's not like they have to trek
thirty miles uphill in the snow to do it, nor tempted by priceless jewels and pallets of cash for lords sake!
I walk everywhere, including to work. 2 miles in each direction, almost everyday. Torrential rain, sub-freezing with snow drifts to
my knees, over 100°F with near 100% humidity and no shade...doesn't matter. I've never missed a day, nor shown up
late by more than 3 minutes, regardless. This is for years. :)
I've never known a nigger to walk anywhere unless there was drugs or pussy on the other end. Too much like work. And yet,
even with a car, they can't show up on time.
These jobs aren't very rewarding, either intellectually nor financially, but I PAY MY OWN WAY. I'm not a social parasite.
Slinging slurpies wasn't an illustrustrious career field, but it's not something shameful either. Oh, and I've never pumped
gas...it's always been self-serve. :p Now I'm head cashier at a grocery store.
And if AH was alive today, instead of sweeping the streets of vienna, he could very well have be slinging slurpies. And he'd still
be leading a nation in ten years. What you do for a living now in no way predicts what you'll be doing, or are capable of doing,
in ten years. Only the restrictions of your own intellect can do that.
It must really grate when some flash homie in his rude benz cruises in. But he, like other bigots, spends his time hating and
resenting, instead of working to get his own. NBK has an AMAZING mind (and I'm not ass kissing, he knows what I'm talking
about) and if he put it to some use in business, or industry then he could make a million. If he was in the industry I'm in, with
a bit of effort he could probably make SEVERAL million. But instead, he's wasting his life on this forum, and thinking about
crime.
Thanks for the compliment on my intellect. :) (And what industry are you in, ark? Telecom, if I remember correctly?)
However, I don't feel it wasted by being here at The Forum, the same forum you're wasting your life on :p, as I spent the first
thirty years of my life with no one else to discuss these sorts of things with (pyro, etc) but now I do. I learn more in a month
here than I did in the years prior.
If I'm not working, I'm still not a parasite, because I'm a predator hunting sheep.
Criminals are criminals because the law, created by elected criminals called "politicians", says so. It's illegal to mine gold by
washing a mountain down a flume with water, but it's more efficient at creating wealth than any other form of mining. Making
money selling drugs is a crime, though you can sell all the uppers and downers you want if you're Park-Davis and have political
connections through bribes to the elected criminals.
Adolph Hitler was a convict who spent time in prison, a proverbial "slurpie slinger" (street sweeper), and a Master of the Race
who's called "Most Heinous Criminal" by the very vermin he had exterminated. So, to me, being called a criminal is no great
insult. It is, in fact, a honor that'd I'd gladly wear along with Gobbels, Heydrick, and Mengele, as it means I'm not a sheeple.
And, as a member of the Master Race, I can restrain my impulses, something the muds are incapable of. I will not rush off
half-cocked and do something stupid that lands me in prison for the rest of my life for sticking up a liquor store and blasting
someone wit my gat 'cause I can nigga!
Spannungsbogen..the self-imposed delay between desire for a thing and the act of reaching out to grasp it...something muds
are incapable of.
You'll notice how some of the RTPB's are related to spannungsbogen. Delaying the immediate gratification for the long term
gain. Surveillance, planning, research, practice...all spannungsbogen
You'll know that I've "come up" when I retire from here, for I'll have much more important things to do, and the money to do
them with, then to keep the riff-raff in check here. Though I may occassionly drop by to shock and amaze you with some new
wonder.
And I can make several million from the right kind of crime. After all, if crime didn't pay, no one would bother with it, right?
Ahhhhh....though I'd never admit to such a thing. Lord help the world if I ever won a 9 digit lottery prize! Mwahahahaa!
And, unlike the "flash homie with his rude benz" (rented, no doubt, using an identity stolen from a working white man), I'll not
be flaunting my wealth in search of attention like some monkey slinging its feces everywhere while hooting and waving it's
arms about by rolling around in a fancy car.
Everything in the RTPB can be summoned up in one word...invisibility.
Not drawing attention to oneself by action, mannerism, word, deed, appearance, clothes, car, finances, etc. To pass unseen
and unnoticed, no shadows, no trail, no trace...just vanishing in plain sight.
Let others have the gaudy jewelry and shiny cars. They're the ones who are the prey of the Naturalius Born Killium. ;) Though,
to get close to the plumpest sheep, you must look like a plump sheep yourself, since sheep don't get to be so tasty if they're
not wary enough to avoid the predations of inferior NBK's.
I'll have the bespoke suits, cartier watch, and other such trappings of sheeple status. You must play the part.
But, in a non-hunting mode, I'll just be my usual plain vanilla self. My car will look like a typical non-descript P.O.S car, but it'll
be a sleeper with full race-mod engine and all the rest. Coats would be the typical low budget kind you'd find at a discount
store, but with level IIA armor built in that'll stop anything short of a rifle. Everything I have will give the appearance of being
less than it really is. RTPB "Deception..."
And others can have the fame and the political power. They're the ones who are lead up to the guillotine when the regime
changes, as it always does, and the mighty always fall because they're so visible.
Talleyrand, Napoleon's foreign minister, knew this well, as he survived many coups and otherthrows, living to die of old age
because he was never in the forefront, working from the shadows to manipulate others.
The ones who know how to navigate the deep and silent depths of obscurity are the ones who are immune to the tossing
waves of the shallow shoals of (temporary) fame and power. They are also the ones who can influence the deep currents of
root causes with a thousand subtle nudges that can either calm the shallows, or stir them up into a foaming tempest. The
flapping of a butterfly's wing causing a hurricane...chaos in action.
That's what I am aiming for with my desire to be frozen upon my temporary life-hiatus. Let the ephemerals thrash about over
the issues of their times while the Elder Gods (such as myself ;)) guide them towards what the race should be. When you're
immortal, you can afford to take the long view of centuries for plans to come to fruition, long enough that the lifespan of the
buzzing gnats has no effect on them.
Those who are resurrected would very likely be in a position to control who would be able to follow in their footsteps, because
the masses won't be doing it till it becomes so obvious that a blind man couldn't miss it, by which times the early pioneers will
have established control over it as happens in almost every human endeavor. Those who are the first to see an opportunity
and seize control of it often end up controlling it for (nearly) forever.
These are people who are risk takers, who can foresee things in the deep-future, and are planners with deep contingencies.
I've read that there are virtually no muds being frozen. A typical case of lack-of-foresight on the part of the muds. Another
reason why they'll not be inheriting the earth, for they're incapable of seeing any further into the future than the end of their
squashed noses, seeking only the flashy displays of gaudy wealth so they can "bling-bling" and pick up 'hoes to get their fuck
on, all while wearing the latest Nike trainers and drinking their malt 40's (all owned by whites).
Here's a possibility to scare you freaky race-mixers:
The Nazi's experimented with cryogenics...Adolph Hitlers body was never found...all those who'd know that Hitler wasn't dead
either went to the gallows saying "Heil Hitler!" or took poison...see where I'm going with this?
Wouldn't it just be sooooo funny if, sometime in this century when nano-tech enables ressurection, a leader with a scary
resemblence to a young Hitler was to rise to dominance in a small Aryan country and turned it into a global superpower, before
unleashing it on a war for global supremecy...and winning?
Sleep well mud lovers, with dreams of your grandchildren fueling the furnaces. :p
"Oh, that's impossible! Hitler will never come back! It'll never happen!"
Of course not...because it's never happened before, right? I'll not bother citing all the examples of "impossibilities" that have
happened because someone didn't know about this curious "Law of Nature" that something can't happen unless it's happened
before.
Typical sheeple thinking, thinking that the world will forever stay as it is, when the only constant in the universe is change.
Time will vindicate one of us. Either the Aryan race will be outbreed and die by drowning in a rising sea of human-shaped shit,
or we'll throw off the dead weight in a war of racial purification that'll cleanse it of the garbage you call "human".
When I'm thawed out a century from now, I'll see what direction the world is going, though I may not be able to say "I told you
so" if you've turned to dusty worm shit in that time. You should have yourself frozen when you die so we could meet a century
from now and see who's right.
It may very well be that the Aryan race will die out and the muds will iinhabit all the world, but then who'd know how to operate
the machines that'd be needed to revive us? And would you want to live in such a world as the last white man, surrounded by
10 billion or more of your fellow brown "humans". I wouldn't.
Nature knows that mixing is intolerable. How many animals cross-breed with others not of their own? Zero, I believe. The
animal will fight off the offender trying to breed with it. And the offspring of such aborrent mixing is almost always defective
and dies before it can pass on the defect. It's only us silly humans that have developed this fucked up belief in equality that
permits such interbreeding of humans with the humanoids.
This is why whiggers are so offensive to me. They choose to ape the slaves. Could you imagine what whites would do to a
whigger back in the days of slavery? They'd whip the black out of him, if not hang him outright, for disgracing the race. Now we
tolerate such foolishness.
That'd be a good start...don't hang the niggers, hang the whiggers...making such disgraceful behavior against the Aryan race
a capital offense punished by death. If you want to act like a nigger, you can hang like a nigger.
The vast majority of people, including so-called "neo-nazis", seem to think that Nazism is all about Hitler, the Third Reich,
Germany, and all the rest of it.
It's not.
I'll give you the parallel story of the christian religion to explain it.
Hitler was the prophet that brought the truth before the world, as Jesus did, that there is a higher purpose to guide our lives
by.
Germany was the Holy Land in which the prophet preached The Word, bore the brunt of the scorn of the world, and then died
as a sacrifice for The Word and The Race, just as Jesus did in Palestine and Jerusaleum (SP?) for His Word.
And, like Jesus, there is no body for His enemies to desecrate and drag through the streets...to point at and say "See! He was
but a mere man!"...such a thing will never happen for He was not a mere man, but rather a fully realized Man in an ocean of
mere men...a Demi-God, in fact.
The Word has been written down for the Faithful to learn and study (Mein Kampf), just as the word of God is in the Bible.
We admire and respect the prophet, but faith in the meaning of The Race is the true meaning of it, just as faith in the bible
and its teachings is what determines your beliefs in christianity.
My faith is in the purity of the Race, the ascendancy of the Human Race, and the inherent evil in tolerence and exceptance of
those who'd defile that purity and prevent the ascendancy...the untermensch.
Just like the demons of the christian faith, the untermensch (with the christ-killers, the jews, as their leaders) seek to drag
Humanity (Aryans) down into the fetid depths of their Sodom and Gamorrah with their vile lies!
Equality! The mantra of those who seek to pervert the natural order of the entire universe that decries that NONE are equal! All
are either superior or inferior to the others around them. From sub-atomic particles to entire galaxies, one always submits to
the other.
"Gays" are equal...queer marriage is just as valid as that between Man and Woman...LIES! These degenerates seek to equate
their foul perversions with the desires Men and Women have towards each other in the natural desire to propage The Race with
the queer agenda of "same-sex marriage". Such a thing is a disgrace to ALL Humans.
To give acceptance to such a thing is to say that the perpetuation of The Race is not important. That the acceptance of any
manner of filth is more important than Purity. This is why fags were stoned to death and whole cities turned to smoking holes
in the ground. Only by purging such infections when they are discovered can you keep such diseased thinking from turning into
a festering cancer like we see spreading across the world.
It's no surprise that AIDS was so rampant in the faggots among the caucasian populations Just like it's rampant among the
monkeys fucking each other to death in the huts of africa. Both of these are populations that have no self-restraint, slinging
their sperm into each guts as often as possible, with the HIV virus to go with it.
Tolerance for cripples and other defective humans...insanity!
Do you keep a defective part in a car? No! You remove it as soon as possible and throw it away. As a mechanic I can tell you
that keeping a defective part in a motor will soon result in the destruction of the entire engine. Just as impurities in the oil,
fuel, and lubricants will result in destruction. Slowly, or quickly, the results are always the same.
By keeping the dregs alive, the untermensch seek to so cripple The Race with excess baggage in the form of useless life that
we'll be dragged down to their level, eeking out nothing more than a mere existance of squalor amid a sea of human
garbage.
But the Prophet, Hitler, showed us what The Race can achieve when it sheds off the shackles of such human chains and unifies
under the rule of Purity. Purity of Race, Purity of Cause, Purity of Purpose, Purity of Reason.
The Christ killers were the first to reap the bitter harvest of the seeds they had sown on the day they had Christ nailed to the
cross.. The Prophet had known that you can not tolerate the impure in your midst, lest they poison you from within and stab
you in the back. That's why the jew vermin were exterminated like they were.
Christ had demonstrated the need for such action when he whipped the jew merchants from the temple, those impure
profiteers who were defiling the Holy with their base and profane greed. What are jews universally known for? Greed.
The jews always seek to keep their own bloodlines unsullied by the rest of the untermensch, even going so far as to inbreed
with their own close relatives (like the rothchilds) to prevent outside contamination, but they do their damnedest to ensure that
The Race is polluted by the genetic garbage of the retards, cripples, and the mud races through their domination of the
media, music, movies, and everything else that they've infected with their presence to infect young whites with the thoughts
that "tolerance" of deviance and impurity is somehow a moral virtue, and that race mixing is "diversity", not the contamination
of the pure with filth.
Tolerance = Acceptance of filth and degeneracy
Equality = Perversion of Natural Law
Diversity = Contamination and dilution
They seek to weaken The Race from within by enfeebling its mind, weaken its body, and diluting its Purity by contamination
with the inferior.
But I have seen through the lies, the deceptions, the pleasing media diversions and temptations they've thrown in my path in
an attempt to draw my eyes away from the truth. I'll not be led astray from the path of Purity and Ascendancy for The
Race...the only truely Human race...the Aryan Race.
I will not pollute my Race by mixing my Aryan heritage with the filth of the untermensch. I will not tolerate the presence of
impurity in my offspring, neither mental or physical, nor allow them to pass it on to the next generation to further contaminate
the Race, nor allow them to interbreed with untermensch. I will kill them myself to prevent that.
If I myself was genetically flawed, I would not pass it on by breeding, instead adopting an otherwise neglected white child to
raise as my own and to teach him the pride of his Race.
I will not shame my Aryan heritage by aping the ways of the untermensch, or act in a manner that would shame my ancestors.
My ancestors were explorers of unknown frontiers, conquerers of continents, and creators of miracles. I will do my best to
emulate their example.
I will not tolerate the presence of jew filth in my mind, or in the minds of my children, nor allow such things in my house in the
form of radio, television, or even internet. I oppose it everytime I have the opportunity to with other whites, to expose the
crap that's being foisted on them on their enemies.
All the rest will feed the furnaces, the worms, or the maggots in time. The only way you can have Purity is to remove the
impure.
The Prophet has shown us by example, left us His Words to guide us, and we have only to follow His example and accept His
guidance to elevate ourselves to the next level of evolution to become Masters of the world and, eventually, the Universe.
HEIL HITLER!
(And to those who'd ask why a satanist is referring to god as a religious reference, I say you can't have the dark without the
light, one can't exist without the other. Besides, Jesus had better P.R., so that side of the story is better known, thus more
accessible to the masses.)
Naturally the "non-bigots" will say all this is bullshit. Fine...it's bullshit...till the day your daughter comes home with an black
ape on her arm. Then you're guts will twist in knots as the ancestors within you cry out in disgust at what you've allowed into
your home!
vulture December 22nd, 2003, 02:56 PM

From a purely scientific standing point, this denies the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy, thus chaos, always increases.
That includes the mixture of several components, be it atoms or entities. It's just thermodynamically favorable. :p
Nihilist December 22nd, 2003, 03:08 PM

NBK, I can't believe you would stoop to the level of saying "jews killed christ" as if it had any bearing on the quality of their
race. I can't even believe you would make a religious reference of any kind, you are an atheist aren't you? Now, some of what
you said I do agree with to some extent. People with disabilities that would never allow them to become productive members
of society should probably be exterminated. I also agree that blacks may be inferior genetically to whites, I can't really provide
a good argument against that one. However, Asians and Jews are most definitely anything but inferior, if not superior to the
"aryan" race. How can you say that greed is a flaw in jews, when everything that you say and do revolves around self-
preservation and self-gain? You are exactly like the greediest of jews in that respect, if anything you should look up to them.
Another thing is that Christians(aryans essentially) only diverged from the Jewish race/religion about 2000 years ago. On the
genetic scale of things that's practically nothing, there is no way that there could be any real difference in the mental
capabilities and general quality of the races. Not to mention the fact that without Einstein(100% jew) we would not have atomic
fusion or explosives. I live in an area that is predominantly jewish most of my friends are jews, and I can guarantee you
without the slightest shred of doubt that they are in no way intellectually or morally inferior to anyone else.
Now, on to the subject of asians. In your own PDF you have "The art of war" written by Sun Tzu, who was an asian general
about 3000 years ago. Your RTPB's and almost everything you say are based around the principles put forth by an ASIAN.
Even Hitler didn't hate asians, in fact Germany was allied with Japan in WWII. I would seriously doubt that most of the high
nazi officials even believed in their cause, focusing hatred toward a specific race is an excellent way to unite a people, and
that's just what the nazi's did, and it worked brilliantly. Now, you have provided many good points about certain people that
you have met being lazy and late for work and stealing, however does that make their race bad or yours good because you
don't do that. Or does it simply mean that you specifically are a better person than they are? You say that the jews manipulate
the media in order to influence the masses and force their will upon people, isn't that essentially your dream for yourself?
Being capable of influencing an entire countries opinions on every little thing.
T_Pyro December 22nd, 2003, 11:25 PM

India, for instance, has the Kama Sutra...a book all about fucking. Truely an inspiring piece of literature for the ages. What
else have they written that anyone can name or would bother reading? They worship rats and cows, all while they starve to
death because they give their food to fat rats and fat cows.
Oh brother! :rolleyes: How narrow-minded can one get? Have you heard of the "Ramayana"? The "Mahabharatha"?
"Aryabhatiya" maybe? Or "Susruta Samhita"? The Vedas? Heard of Rabindranath Tagore's works? No, wait, most probably you
might have heard of them, but would have absolutely no clue as to what they might actually contain because they were written
in a language that you have not learnt. So you conveniently refer back to Kama Sutra as the only "inspiring piece of literature"
from India.
Some people go through India and ALL they see is shit - that's what Bigots are like, they LOOK for the shit because it confirms
their beliefs. Why bother opening your minds when you can keep them closed - it's SO much easier!
So apt, Arkangel! Why do I get the feeling that this description fits you so well, NBK?
Let me correct your "vision" about the rats and cows you speak of there. Some people worship rats and cows. "Some" means a
small portion of the population, in case I have not made myself clear. Just like some people from other countries are
members of UFO cults which organize mass-suicides. Personally, I have yet to meet someone who worships rats. And don't
start with that argument about "you're only from a big city, you have no idea of what goes on in the villages", because I spent
the greater part of my childhood in a small village in rural West Bengal, called "Asansol".
I'm not saying that my country is El Dorado. What I'm saying is that it's not a shithole either, although many people have so
eagerly painted it in that light.
All races have their own way of life, their customs, beliefs, and their shortcomings. All races have some people without any
ethics or decency. That does not mean that the entire race is to be judged by the behaviour of this minority. Judging a person
solely from his race is downright foolish, and such an action reflects just how shallow the judge is.
A little closer to the topic, I found the page mentioned quite devoid of any humour, but if anyone finds it funny, I have
nothing against them, either. Jokes against a particular section of the population are bound to draw the criticism of others, but
I feel that as long as the jokes were meant solely for harmless laughter, they're ok, as long as there are no actual ill-feelings
against that section of the population. Even I crack jokes about "the sardarji...", or "the blonde who...", but I obviously don't
mean them literally, and most certainly do not harbour any grudges against them.
Sarevok December 23rd, 2003, 02:20 AM

Lets say, if one posts this
I live in an area that is predominantly black; most of my enemies are blacks, and I can guarantee you without the slightest
shred of doubt that they are intellectually and morally inferior to my race.
one would attract hatred, because one is making assumptions about a race based on his connection to only a small number of
individuals from that race, but a if one posts
I live in an area that is predominantly black; most of my friends are blacks, and I can guarantee you without the slightest
shred of doubt that they are in no way intellectually or morally inferior to anyone else.
one doesn't attract hatred. Exactly like the first example, here one is making assumptions about a race based on his
connection to only a small numbers of individual from that race, but strangely no one bitches about this; in fact, its not
considered racism at all.
Why? Both examples ARE racism. To speak "blacks are not inferior" is racism. You are making assumptions about a race,
based on life experiences related to some individuals. Notice the second form of racism doesn't attract hatred.
What is better to the system, a person who loves everyone or a person who hates everyone? The lover is better to the system,
thats why society brainwashes everyone to love and tolerate. If one resists this brainwashing, becoming a racist, for example,
hating blacks, one is called a "sick" person, because he is inconvenient for the system. Usually, everything that make the
general people hate someone is something related to this hated person being inconvenient for the system, and general
people hate this person because they were mindfucked by the system.
The system tells us "don't kill, its wrong", but they do kill people, like Waco; like they killed Timothy McVeigh. So, if its wrong,
why do they kill? Because its not about right or wrong, its about what is convenient and what is inconvenient for the system.
Tim's death was convenient for the system, so he died. A random person's death is inconvenient for the system (how society
will survive if everyone dies?), thats why its "wrong" for us to kill someone on the streets.
See, its pure logic. Right and wrong doesn't exist, beliefs are made by those in power, they are not a natural thing. People
who hate racists only do this because they were brainwashed to do so, to sustain the system, who can't survive if it becomes
full of racists, rapists, etc. Society is using us, taking our freedom and sucking life out of our dreamless bodies. Racists and
non-racists alike should unite themselves to destroy society.
P.S.: So, to me, being called a criminal is no great insult. It is, in fact, a honor that'd I'd gladly wear along with Gobbels,
Heydrick, and Mengele, as it means I'm not a sheeple.
NBK, when I said "criminals" on the thread "Is there a God" I meant no offense to you, I did refer to mindless idiots who do
PETTY crimes to survive because they are incapable of working.
Nihilist December 23rd, 2003, 03:39 AM

I do not hate racists I simply believe that the belief is ill-founded in most cases. Also, the point you are quoting from me is
about jews not blacks, however I didn't just say that, I also provided reasons as to why I think that, the end quote that you
snipped off there was just my sort of conclusion which summed up the ideas I presented in the paragraph. I know many
people like you Sarevok, who hate the system and try to do everything they can to be unlike the system, just for the sake of
being anti "the system". Which is just as bad as completely conforming to the system. If this doesn't accurately describe you
sorry, it just seems like you are one of those people who's goal in life is only to be the antithesis of "the system".
Sarevok December 23rd, 2003, 10:10 AM

I, wishing to be "the antithesis of the system"? Heh, do you think I am some kind of silly hippie, wearing fancy clothes and all
that? Phew... No matter, I could rant a lot about it, but that would be pointless.
Mea culpa, I forgot a LOP. From now on, LOP 38: Think as you like but behave like others.
apathyboy December 23rd, 2003, 11:12 AM

Too bad Naz i pro p a g a n d a d o e s n t mention that 18% of th e Nobel prizes have go ne to Jews, who make up 0.5% of th e
earth's population. We can either disregard facts and make up stories (Fundamentalist: one who's faith is strong enough to
overcome even evidence) that claim the awards are biased, or we can just accept that the idea of untermensch is crap (it's
called Ockham's razor, use it). Almost every scientist working on the A-bomb was Jewish too, and it would probably have
b e e n used on Germany, with hilarious results, if they had n t folded like an old lady kicked in the s tomach. Also, Ge rmany was
defeated through an amazing lack of foresight on Hitler's part: attacking Russia, declaring war on America, etc, so if nothing
else the ubermensch sense of strategy is flawed
NBK, what would you say about Stephen Hawking? I'd be willing to bet he's contributed to humanity's knowledge of the
universe far more than anyone here, that's including you members of the Aryan master race, yet he's a cripple. A "defective"
part that should be destroyed.
If I ever subject a child to the torments of my parenting, why would I give a shit who she dates, as long as they're not a
dumbass? If I can talk to someone for 5 minutes without having fantasies of breaking open their skull to free the air
trapped inside, it doesn't really matter what colour their skin is. Granted, I'd be more wary of a black person, given that
they're m ore pron e to crim e (don t argue with me hippies, look at the relative prison popula tions, it's not a ll discrim ination),
but I wouldn't let it interfere much with me deciding whether I like them or not. If I did, I might just as easily decide that all
Nazis are potential war criminals, and I should hang them pre-emptively.
Sarevok: saying blacks are not inferior is not racism. It just makes things simpler. Assuming they're inferior creates problems,
and assuming they're superior makes the same ones, only in reverse, so it's real easy: assume they're the same as
everybody else, and then evaluate them on an individual basis, the same as you would do with white people. If they turn out
to be scum, throw them into a bonfire, or ignore them, whatever you feel like at the moment.
Oh yeah, just in case no one knew this, Christ was originally a JEW, and he was sentenced, nailed to the cross, and speared by
ROMANS
In other words, if it wasn't for the Jews, who you Christians graciously swiped the old testament from (and then mistranslated),
Christianity wouldn't exist.
And wouldn't it be funny if a major Christian sect had the name of the real murderers of Christ in its name... oh wait, never
mind.
Flake2m December 23rd, 2003, 01:50 PM

NBK, you simply say all this bullshit "in order to provoke a response" to quote from my english teacher. I wouldn't be surprised
at all if your idenity was revealed on the news only to find that out that you have one of these flaws that you seem to be so
afraid of.
Ok NBK you have finally managed to topple the government and become the supreme leader of the Ayran race. You've
already started exterminating anyone that isn't blonde haired, blue eyed, 6'4 and with an IQ of 100 or more. When do you
stop?
When you have finally put an end to the Jewish religon, got rid of every "mub blood" on the planet and 99% of your
population is blue eyed, has blonde hair, atleast 6'4 and and IQ of 100 or more. Where do you go from there? the main
problem with the "aryan race" is that if everyone was blue eyed blonde haired etc, then everything is gonna be petty damn
dull. Have you also heard of random genetic drift? Natural selection? The survival of the human race doesn't depend on some
wacko saying that if you dont have this, or your not this tall then you can't breed it depends on natural diversity, because
everyone is different different people are good at different things so if there was a plague/nuclear holocaust/Ozone layer
depletion, someone is bound to survive to continue the survival of the human race.
Let me give you an example: The chinese invade the Ayran Empire. What do 1 billion people all have in common? Slant eyes.
All Asian people have an epicanthal fold which gives them there slanted eyes. Now the chinese have developed a pathogen
that kills anyone without the epicanthal fold. Result, the Ayran race is extinguished because they thought having slant eyes
was inferior. This example also show that everyone having similar genes can be superior as well, however you can also argue
that if people are more diverse then there going to be a better chance of surviving a weapon like this and being able to make
the counterattack.
You say
Tolerance = Acceptance of filth and degeneracy
Equality = Perversion of Natural Law

I say:
Tolerance = Treating people for who they are not what they are.
Equality = Giving everyone a chance at life.
Diversity = Better looking chicks for me :D.
Sarevok December 23rd, 2003, 11:31 PM

I said I was not going to speak... I... I can't control myself!
Posted by apathyboy
Oh yeah, just in case no one knew this, Christ was originally a JEW, and he was sentenced, nailed to the cross, and speared by
ROMANS
I spent a good part of my life studying to become a priest, and I have never seen so much ignorance about the bible! :eek:
Christ was a jew, true. But "romans killed him" is a lie. Jews asked for his death. Thanks to Judas' betrayal, which Luke
attributes to Satan's influence, jews brought Christ to the romans, asking for his death. Pilate, a roman authority, said THREE
times that Christ was innocent, but the crowd of jews asked for Christ's death. Pilate decided to order Christ's death, thanks to
the jewish pressure. Read the bible (you have one, right?) before you decide to talk about it. Read Mark 14 and Mark 15:1-
39.
Posted by Flake2m
Tolerance = Treating people for who they are not what they are.
Equality = Giving everyone a chance at life.
Diversity = Better looking chicks for me.
You said that NBK's words are bullshit, and then you write THIS? :mad:
You know, sometimes I feel as if I'm drowning in shit. What the very Jesus said, I repeat: My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?
By the way, Flake2m, your signature is not agreeing with the rules. The Forum's unwritten rules... written down, Signatures,
paragraph 2, states that signatures should not be more than 3 lines long.
Edit:
Posted by apathyboy
In other words, if it wasn't for the Jews, who you Christians graciously swiped the old testament from (and then mistranslated),
Christianity wouldn't exist.
Jews stole much of the old testament from other cultures. Christianity is not based on the old testament, but on Christ'
Sermon on the Mountain. Read Matthew 5, 6, and 7.

I'll change my sig then. I have a screen of 1280x1024, so it isn't 3 lines to me. My idea of diversity was suppose to be
tongue-in-cheek.
Everyone in this forum has written some form of bullshit, I am certainly guilty of it, you are guilty of it, even Mega is guilty of
it.
Another good example of bullshit on the net is that nigger manual, it isn't new, it isn't funny and just wastes bandwidth.

Tolerance = Fuck that, why should I have to put up with stupid people? "do we have to know moles?" YES dipshit! Lazy/stupid
people will get no tolerance from me.
Equality =Equality is a wonderful attribute, unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with real life. People die all the time
for no reason at all. Nobody is born equal and people get unfair advantages all the time.
Diversity = Diversity is shitty too. Clearly one race, by way of simple genetics, is better. so why not have just that?
Fear December 24th, 2003, 05:45 AM

Stephen Hawkings has motor neuron disease, and has lived 38 years with it, (he's 60).
While I don't totally agree with genetic and ethinic domans, I do agree with ascension. Just drive out to the country and look
up at the stars on a clear night, thats a humbling experience. Humans no longer evolve, as soon as we created an organised
community, it really started to slow down, as the weak were supported by the strong, the "survival of the fittest" stopped.
Why are humans still messing around on this planet, when theres an almost limitless array of planets to populate, star
systems to pillage, and everything else to explore. What is the point of exestence, is the question I ask. For some reson I
don't think it's sitting around, watching other peoples lives and buying funny looking pieces of crap.

WTF has jesus got to do with this? You're getting carried away by some worthless bible drivel that very possible was just sucked
out of some loons ass.:rolleyes:

Does anyone else wonder why the OP is now under someone else's name and most of the stupid shit flashpoint posted is now
completely missing? (not just edited, GONE- though most of his remaining posts are now heavily edited as well).

What the Nazis did was unnatural selection, concentration camps don't grow out of the ground. Hitler probably killed off some
of the best in the gene pool. Not that I really care, at this point I just think the less humans on earth the better. I'm not really
for killing the weak, but rather just letting them die. Get rid of these useless vaccines, medications, pesticides and fertilizers
and let nature do it's job. Technology hasn't made life any better anyway. Before technoindustrial society humans would run
around having sex and killing things for 30 years, doing what they evolved to do. Now it's just 80 years of boredom.
http://www.panix.com/~clays/Una/
Teddy knew what he was talking about.

VULTURE:
Entropy, thus chaos, always increases.
Entropy always increases at the universal level, meaning the sum of entropy for everything in existance is always increasing.
However, entropy at the local level (whether atomic or planetary) can be stopped, or even reversed, if you put enough energy
into it.
This accelerates universal entropy, yes, but we're not concerned with stopping entropy for the entire universe, only the Race. :)
So, to rephrase what I said, to reflect what you said:
Diversity = Entropy, thus chaos.
And since when is chaos a good thing for a Race? It's not.
NIHILIST:
NBK, I can't believe you would stoop to the level of saying "jews killed christ" as if it had any bearing on the quality of their
race. I can't even believe you would make a religious reference of any kind, you are an atheist aren't you?
I said:
I'll give you the parallel story of the christian religion to explain it.
I was using religion as a means of explaining my beliefs, not as a justification for them, thus the fact that the jews DID kill
Christ has nothing to do with their being inferior, just that they hate the Prophet Hitler the same as they did the Prophet Christ
because both spoke the unwanted truth.
Plus, I've never hiding the fact that I'm a satanist, so how you could have missed that tidbit is astounding. You can't believe in
Lucifer without acknowledging God.
However, Asians and Jews are most definitely anything but inferior, if not superior to the "aryan" race.
And both of these are societes that actively discourage interbreeding with others outside of their kind. Interesting, that, isn't
it? When the gooks or kikes say "We don't want intermarriage with others!" it's called "respecting their culture" yet, when
Aryans say it, it's called "EVIL RACISM!".
How can you say that greed is a flaw in jews, when everything that you say and do revolves around self-preservation and self-
gain? You are exactly like the greediest of jews in that respect, if anything you should look up to them.
Everything I say and do revolves around self-preservation and self-gain because I'm a CRIMINAL. But I'm just an individual
who's like that. Thus, according to you, the jews are an entire society of criminals that I should look up to.
Another thing is that Christians(aryans essentially) only diverged from the Jewish race/religion about 2000 years ago.
Christianity is a religion and has ZERO relation to race. There are christians of every race. However, judaism is almost entirely
ethnic jew. So you can safely say with better than 99% certainty that a believer of judaism is an ethnic jew. You couldn't say
that about christians and Aryans.
Einstein had little to do with nuclear weapons development. He did detail the e=mc2 equation that said that mass equals
energy, but that was built upon the discoverys of other (white) scientists, so it would have been discovered eventually without
him.
Einstein, in fact, didn't think an atom bomb could be built small enough to be delivered by anything smaller than a ship. The
only reason the US bothered with it is because a Nazi scientist (forgot his name, DOH!) was working on the priniciple of nuclear
fission as well and einstein recognized the fact that he may have been wrong (as he was!) about the mass of uranium required
for nuclear weapons.
Oh, and the family of the Nazi scientist just this year admitted that he was indeed working on developing an Aryan A-Bomb,
after 50 years of saying that he wasn't, and that he was only a couple of years from having one, the destruction of the
norwegian heavy water plant being the only thing that delayed it in time to save the Allies from nuclear oblivion.
I live in an area that is predominantly jewish most of my friends are jews, and I can guarantee you without the slightest shred
of doubt that they are in no way intellectually or morally inferior to anyone else.
You need to pick a better class of friends. :p I suppose if you lived in an area that was predominatly nigger, fag, and goat
fuckers that you'd have niggers, fags, and goat fuckers as your friends?
I live in an area that is predominately white, work at a store where all my co-workers are white, and don't have a single
associate. Why? Because I believe that one should only keep company with those you'd wish to die with. None of them are
worthy. Being white doesn't automatically make you my friend, since there are plenty of whites who need exterminating as
well. Whiggers being the first to go, along with those who accept "equaltiy, et al" as being true, defectives, etc.
I've never said jews are stupid, just that they're morally bankrupt and inherently evil sub-human garbage that needs
exterminating.
Now, on to the subject of asians. In your own PDF you have "The art of war" written by Sun Tzu, who was an asian general
about 3000 years ago.
There are aberrations in any population. It's interesting how the asians have produced only one general who's tactics are worth
reading in the last 3,000 years. We (Aryans) produce at least a couple every century.
Your RTPB's and almost everything you say are based around the principles put forth by an ASIAN.
BZZZZZ...wrong. Almost everything in the RTPB's is created by me. And the inspiration from the rest came from Machiavelli...a
white man.
And, if you want to get technical about it, I shall quote Sun Tzu himself:
To hear the thunder is no great feat of hearing.
In other words, his writing down of the obvious is no great proof of genius on his part, only that he was the first to do so. The
tactics he espoused where no better than that used by Alexander (a white man) to conquere most of the western world. Sun
Tzu and his armies never conquered most of the eastern world, did they? Nope, just killing each other in endless tribal warfare.
Germany allied with the japs because they'd divert Allied efforts from the western front. If the japs hadn't attacked the US, and
instead sat it out, the war wouldn't have taken nearly as long as it did.
Speaking of the japs...notice how they're a monocultural, monoethnic, monolingual, monoreligious society? (Anything over
90% is consider mono-)
No "equality and diversity" bullshit there. They're also the only asian country which gave us a significant fight (Vietnam was a
pissant guerrilla war), and are our only real economic competitors. They have a highly ordered and efficient society with low
crime and poverty. Almost universal literacy, technological parity with the west, etc.
(If I wasn't concerned with racial purity, I'd have a japanese wife, because of their social awareness, loyalty, and obedience. I
wouldn't mind having one as a slave, if only to translate my huge hentai collection.)
NONE of which applies to countries of highly "diverse" ethnic populations. And diversity automatically excludes "Tolerance". Tell
me of one country with a highly diverse ethnic or religious population that isn't going through a civil war, rampant social chaos,
or outright anarchy.
India? NOT!
America? Another civil war is coming.
Africa? HA!
The secret of community lies in suppression of the incompatible. This necessitates uniformity, inequality, and intolerance.
Muds in america try to say that the american constitution applies to them because of the line "All men are created equal.".
As it was written, "Men" applied to White Males ONLY. Not non-whites, nor white women, but WHITE MEN.
And notice how successful and prosperous we were while we adhered to that foundation.
Now that we're all "equal", we're all equally going down the toilet.
I would seriously doubt that most of the high nazi officials even believed in their cause, focusing hatred toward a specific race
is an excellent way to unite a people, and that's just what the nazi's did, and it worked brilliantly.
Did any of the high Nazi officals refute their stance on the jews and untermensch when on trial for "crimes against humanity",
in exchange for leniency? NO. They all hanged for it. Would you die for something you didn't believe in...something that was
only a convenient means of uniting people under your leadership?
Now, you have provided many good points about certain people that you have met being lazy and late for work and stealing,
however does that make their race bad or yours good because you don't do that. Or does it simply mean that you specifically
are a better person than they are?
Why is it people refuse to see the obvious? If almost every single person you've known of a certain race was a lazy 'tard who'd
steal the teeth out of their mothers mouth if they could sell it for a crack rock, then why wouldn't you come to the realization
that, perhaps, it's not just that you've been unlucky in meeting ONLY the rock-smoking/tooth-robbing/fuck-'tards, but that it
may be that ALL of them are like that?
If I'd known ONLY one nigger in my entire life, and he was like that, then you'd have a point in saying "Well, they're not all
like that, and you can't base your experience with just one of them to their whole race.".
But that's the point I'm making. It's not just one, or even a dozen, but HUNDREDS of them that I've encountered in my life
that are like that. And not just in prison either. When you see HUNDREDS of them that are rock-smoking/tooth-robbing/fuck-
'tards, and in several states and over decades, you come to realize that this IS what they're truly like.
Look at any predominately black area and you find a ghetto. Ghetto's exist in every country, and every race has ghettos, but
it's the curious fact that niggers tend to have the worst ghettos of any race, in any country. Africa, which is almost 100%
nigger, is the biggest ghetto in the world, a ghetto the size of a continent.
America has huge ghettos that are entire cities...all nigger. Brazil has huge ghettos, shanty towns...all nigger.
Where are the ghetto's in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Scandanavia, and the other noridic Aryan countries? Are there any? If there
are any, I'd bet money on them being full of niggers/arabs/other mud race. Some of the members here would be in the
position to tell us if there are any ghetto's in their country like those in the countries that have sizeable mud populations.
If you've meet a few polite oreo's (the nigger version of a whigger) in your life and that's the only experience you've had with
the nigger race, than naturally YOUR point of view would be skewed to thinking that they're all like that. Or perhaps at a
college or other enviroment where they tend to behave politely in front of the whites to show that they actually do belong
there, and aren't only there because of a quota system.
When they're alone with each other, the ape in them comes out.
You say that the jews manipulate the media in order to influence the masses and force their will upon people, isn't that
essentially your dream for yourself? Being capable of influencing an entire countries opinions on every little thing?
Yes, it is.
But the intent is what makes one vile and dispicable, the other good and rightous.
When an enemy race is trying to destroy your culture, your purity, and your very existance, then their control of the media is
abhorrent and intolerable.
When you control the media to inspire your race to unify for the greater good, to accelerate the ascendancy of the Aryan race
to space, and all the rest...then it is good. No, not good...glorious!
T_Pyro:
You prove my point for me. Ask anyone on the street of any country (besides india and pakistan, of course) to name a single
piece of indian literature besides the Kama Sutra. I bet you'd have to get more than 1 in 1,000 to get any other answer. More
like 1 in 100,000 to get anything like you mentioned.
Now apply that same question to anyone in india, only asking them to name any western work of literature, and you'd
probably get a 1 for 1 for at least 2 different books, meaning probably everyone you ask (assuming they're not illiterate
village dwellers with no other thought than to survive through another night of starvation) would be able to give you the titles
(if not the storyline) of two different western books. Even the villagers would likely be able to give you one western book
title...the Bible.
Some people go through india and see only shit...and some people only go to india to exterminate shit. The latter would be
the only reason I'd go there, though not even Alexander bothered with it, mustn't be worth bothering with since you're already
in the toilet.
It's appropriate that one speaks of shit when referring to third world contries like india. As a racist, I wouldn't have to look for
shit (though there'd be plenty to see) as I would smell its fetid stench burning my nostrils, the taste of it in the air souring my
mouth, and the turds squishing under my boots.
I didn't say ALL indians worship rats and cows. Just that there's something fundamentally wrong with a race that would.
Oh, and what caste are you from? This may shed some light on your own viewpoint.
SARAVOK:
I didn't see your post in the "Is there a God" thread, so I don't know what you're referring to, or don't remember anyways.
I was referring to how the Nazis were referred to as criminals because of their beliefs in racial purity, fighting a war to gain it,
and exterminating the jew vermin in the process.
If I believe in Aryan racial purity, do what I can to achieve that goal, and refuse to allow the jew propaganda to invade my
mind, then I am labeled a criminal.
So that's a label I'll happily wear. :)
Besides which, if I committed a "crime", the money from which funded research into genetics that eventually lead to a
bioweapon that exterminated the muds and eventually lead to the ascendancy of the Aryan Race as immortals spreading
across the universe, would it be a crime? Or would the true crime be in not doing so?
And I'd have to disagree with Christ being a jew. He was the son of God, not a son of man, hence the virgin birth. He was born
from mary, but was not of mary, nor of her husband.
Just like the Hitler clones in the book "Boys from Brazil" were geneticly pure of the taint of the female bodies (native
amazonian indian women) in which they were carried in and born from, having been conceived in a petri dish from pure DNA,
so to would Christ be free of any jew taint.
It's also true that Christ was executed by the romans, but that's because they caved in to jew pressure to have him killed,
even though he was innocent of the charges. This is why Pontus Pilot (SP?) said that he was washing his hands of the whole
affair, meaning he knew he had the blood of an innocent man on his hands.
FLAKE2M
When you have finally put an end to the Jewish religon, got rid of every "mub blood" on the planet and 99% of your
population is blue eyed, has blonde hair, atleast 6'4 and and IQ of 100 or more. Where do you go from there? the main
problem with the "aryan race" is that if everyone was blue eyed blonde haired etc, then everything is gonna be petty damn
dull.
Typical anti-Aryan bullshit. Every "anti-racist" thinks that all Aryans are blonde hair and blue eyed giants.
BZZZZ...wrong!
Anti-racists are so agitated by sterotypes yet they certainly are quick to bring one up when it suits them.
While that's the "Ideal", it's by no means the one and only. Italians, Spaniards, Portugese, Romans, Greeks, and others are
also considered Aryan, and they're are by no means all blonde/blue. Hitler had black hair. Many Aryans have brown eye. Many
Aryans have a darker complexion than that of skim milk, though I'm of the skim-milk variety. I believe non-whites refer to it
as "pasty", since they're jealous of such purity, but I refer to it as "Aryan White". :D
As previously stated by someone else, having milk-white skin doesn't automatically make you an Aryan, any more than
having darker skin automatically makes you a mud.
A green-eyed albino nigger with dyed-blonde hair is still a nigger. A darkly tanned and brown-eyed Aryan with dark curly hair is
still an Aryan.
But the liberal race-traitors love to try "muddying" the waters by bringing up such red-herrings as "Blonde/Blue".
The eye fold germ? If anyone was going to develop such ethnic weapons it would be whites, since the west has such a huge
lead in genetics over the asians it'll be near-impossible for them to come close to us. So they'd be the ones to be
exterminated by such means as genetic warfare, not whites.
And if they did use such a weapon, they'd be killing off half of their population in the process, since not all gooks have the
eye-fold, something that you, as a "non-racist", should know. But you made a "racist" assumption in assuming that all chinese
are the same, didn't you? Can you name the different ethnicities of the chinese?
And would they invade? They haven't invaded anything in thousands of years. If anything, they're punks who give up their
holes to anyone with some gumption, having been invaded by the mongols, russians, japanese, koreans, british, americans,
etc.
They have yet to put a man into space, something the west did five decades ago. The genetics lead is probably as much, if
not more so.
BTW, flake, your signature may appear as 3 lines in your browser, but in my browser it was four, and the way it looks on my
computer is the only one that matters.
APATHYBOY:
First of all, spell "Canada" correctly, it might help your credibilty a little.
Next, where did all these jew "geniuses" study and learn their science at? It wouldn't be at WHITE colleges, would it? I think so.
And how many of these Noble awards were joint efforts with white scientists, and not solo awards? The majority, perhaps? How
typical of the jew to parasite off the work and efforts of whites to boost their presitige.
As for Hawkings, his afflicition isn't genetic as far as I know, so he wouldn't have been prevented from being born or
reproducing under Nazi genetic laws. If it was genetic, then he'd be sterilized, but permitted to live because his intellect is
obviously useful, and not that of a moron. Those who are useful get to live. Useless life is exterminated.
And is Hawkings a white man? Or a jew? Hmmmm....
It may be that almost every AMERICAN scientist working on the A-bomb was a jew, but what about every Nazi scientist, what
was their race? Oh, we don't want to bring that up, do we?
And the fact that the US built it first doesn't mean the jew scientists were any smarter than the Aryan scientist, simply that they
had the resources of a huge nation that was immune to attack at their disposal, compared to a small country surrounded on
all sides that was being bombed everyday...a small country that still took more than 4 years to defeat and that inflicted more
than twice it's casualties and damage on it's enemies than it recieved. Hardly folding up like a broken old lady kicked in the
stomach. :mad:
And why didn't jew chemists create nerve agents? Where were the jew designed cruise missiles, SRBM's (V-2), or jet fighters
and bombers? Where? Why was it man got to the moon using rockets designed by a NAZI (Warner Von Buren) and not a jew?
A NAZI who never renounced his beliefs, only staying quiet about them, while working for the americans?
Since you mentioned the jews and the bible, does it not say that all but 144,000 of the jews will die, and that those 144,000
will all die as martyrs or disappear in a "rapture"?
That means every jew on the planet will die or disappear when the Anti-Christ reigns over the earth. Would that not be very
Nazi'ish, the eradication of every jew from the earth? Might not the Anti-Christ be a resurrected Hitler, or at least a Nazi?
Was not the swastika called a "broken cross"? Ponder that...
TO EVERYONE:
The more you try to refute me, the more you prove me right with your own logic.
People can see the shitholes of the world on TV everyday and yet not see the truth behind why these places are like they are.
It's not the location, or the economics, but the people living there that makes them such horrible places to live.
Take the entire population of india (though you could use any non-Aryan country) and swap them with an equal number of
people from Aryan countries, and in 100 years the indian continent would be a modern paradise, and the former western
countries would have devolved into shitholes.
We see this in slow-motion with nations that are becoming darker. Inevitably, as the ratio of muds to whites in a country
increases, so too does the prosperity of that nation decline.
When muds see something superior, they seek to tear it down and destroy it, because they recognize their own inferiority in
another superiority.
When Aryans see something superior, first they emulate it, then they improve it.
Oddly enough, the japs are the only mud race that follows Aryan behavior, and that's why they're so successful.
Time will vindicate me.
If, thousands of years from now, the planet is dead of all life because the muds succeeded at outbreeding the Aryans into
extinction, and exterminated all bio-habitat on the planet in an attempt to sustain such overpopulation, then we at least draw
a tie with the muds because none of them will have survived either.
If they outbreed us into extinction, yet survive the ecological disaster, only to continue existing as the roaches they are,
feeding and fucking in their caves and shit huts forever after...then we, as a species, have lost, since we'll have taken a giant
fuck-all step backwards into being cavemen, which is where the muds were at until the Aryans came along.
If, however, Aryans exterminate all the garbage (or simply leave it behind to rot), colonize space, and expand throughout the
universe to exist till the end of the universe itself (and maybe even beyond that), than my belief in Aryan superiority will be
vindicated and all this non-sense of equality and diversity will be so much dust in the history books, right alongside the "earth
is flat" and "sun revolves around the earth" bullshit.
Maybe the reason why the little grey men in UFO's always abduct white people is because they're very distant desendants of
Aryans who come back through time so they can study their ancestors? ;) (I'm joking, of course!)

3,896 words of pure logical poetry. And on christmas eve too. Jesus was a Nazi? what a Jolly idea.

NBK
i bielieve that the fella's name is sponseburg (sp?)
++++++++=
Heisenberg.
Nihilist December 25th, 2003, 04:35 AM

NBK, you make many good points. I will concede that blacks are geneticlaly inferior to aryans, I knew that one was a lost
cause, seeing as the statistics against them are positively enormous, and their pathetic argument about never recovering from
slavery is shit, because the japanese americans recovered from being put in internment camps(most of their property was sold
off, all of their business's failed) quite quickly, and quite successfully.
Also, just to clear up my opinion on this subject a bit, I don't have many moral qualms with the NAZI belief system, I simply
think that they were too narrow in choosing who to exterminate, and that jews and asians should have been spared. You're
being an actual satanist also changes the "field of debate", as it were, considerably. I have seen you say that you were a
satanist before, I just thought it was a reference to you're morals, or lack there of.
It's very hard to argue with someone who has a religious stake in the argument. If I wanted to attempt to debate the
existence of god/satan with you, we would need to start another thread, and since I can't change your opinion on the inferiority
of jews and asians without changing your opinion on the existence of god/satan, i'm done debating it(unless of course you
wanna start that god/satan discussion in a new thread). So, without one of us conceeding to the others religious beliefs(I have
none, pure atheist/nihilist) neither of our minds can be changed because I "know" i'm right, and you "know" you're right.

So, what are the realistic steps that need to be taken to reduce the non superior race? They seem to be catching up
population wise.

Where? Why was it man got to the moon using rockets designed by a NAZI (Warner Von Buren) and not a jew?
That was Werner Von Braun.
Heisenberg is the man behind the uncertainty principle, one can not know the position and the velocity of an electron at the
same time. He did cooperate in the research for nuclear power/warfare in the 2nd world war, but the big man behind it was
Oppenheimer.
Oh, about that chaos. Chaos is what caused DNA to recombinate by sheer luck into something survivable. Mutations are the
result of chaos, when they are (again, by sheer luck) superior to species having other DNA, they usually thrive much better.
Thus, a superior race is the result of chaos, because it only exists because of a twist of evolution.
Efraim_barkbit December 25th, 2003, 07:24 PM

In Sweden, wedo not have very many niggers, in the meaning of nigger=black, african people.
The "ghettos" are instead inhibited mostly by people from balcan, and the muslim countrys.
The "problems" are the usual...
But the reason is not completely the people in themself.

It is the governements "integration plan" that has failed.
When they get "bunked" together in a place where it only lives arabs, how are they going to know how the Swedish life is. They
come from countries where there is no structure in society to talk about, to the wonderful country of Sweden, and are supposed
to know how things are working.
And when they are placed together, given free places to live, and money for doing nothing, why work, when they can get a
better life then their country, without doing nothing.
Of course, there are a lot of them that tries to get into the society, and get jobs and education.
BUT, that is another part where the governement has fucked up big time.
an example of that comes here:
A High educationed, jugoslavian doctor comes to Sweden with his family, he immediatley applies for a Swedish course for him
and his family, and gets out to look for a job. Because there is a lack of Educated medical personel, he gets job as a doctor in
a hospital., And his children goes to scool.
Two and a half years later, when they have settled, got new friends, and learned Swedish, and the family gets the news that
they must go home, because they have not any valid reasons to stay.
At the same time, a family, or rather a tribe, wich have done nothing to get integrated, not even get a course in Swedish. Just
sitting there in their free apartment, leecing on our tax money, and celebrating the Swedish stupidity every day, get to stay.
A girl from Afghanistan, in my school, has recently got the message that her family must go back home.
In the years she has been in Sweden, she has learned very good Swedish, and she is a very good student, not like most of
the o ther foreigners , wich doesnt give a fuck about learning, going out in gangs, becoming criminals, because they k now
that they always will get money from the governement, and if they get caught, its no big deal, They wont barely notice the
weak punishement they will get. For the same thing in their homeland, they would probably get a bullet in the head, but here
they get told that it is not nice to do *insert crime*, and that they shall not do it again.
THIS IS SO FUCKED UP. Why the hell is the hard working man and his family sent home? Even stranger, that there is a LACK
of people with his education, and he still gets send home.
And when the criminal money lechers get to stay?
I believe that every man and woman, if he so is black or white, red or yellow, that is capable of working and gets welfare
money, shall be forced to work for the money. Let it bee sweeping the streets or emptying trash bins, but at least dont give
the money away FREE.
And criminal acts from any foreign person in Sweden, should lead to lifelong and immidiate banishement from the country.
Another thing that s straig ht to hell with this fucked up integratio nsystem , is that if you critizise it, you are lab eled a s a racist.
Hell, you cant even sing the national anthem, or wear a shirt with the Swedish flag in public, without being called a racist, or
sometimes even a nazi.
In wich other country in the world are nationalism and patriotism equal to racism and nationalsocialism in most peoples eyes?
Strange really, You can wear Communist symbols without anyone saying something about it, but wear a shirt with a swastika,
and you bet your ass youll go to court.
How I s ee it, Soviet, or any other communist strongho lds, was no better than Hitlers third reich , how many million people has
not been murdered in the name of communism? 60-70 million?
How many are nationalsocialism guilty of ? a tenth?
I do not believe in the Nazi ideology, and that all other races than the Aryan must be extinguished, but I believe that mixing
of the races are no good. Some would call me a racist, but I do not think of myself as one.
I Rather call my self a nationalist. I have nothing against any other race, as long as they dont fuck with my country. So far, I
have had mostly bad experiences with them. Especially When the place my mother lived was turned from a nice area with
apartements, into the towns refug ee camp .
In the beginning when I was a kid, before the first waves from jugoslavia, and later after the NATO bombings, I used to play
with some other k ids, which wa s foreigners , and they where all right, but later, they started g a n g ing up , and such, and I quit
being their friend, and kept away from them.
After a while, there majority of the residents could not understand Swedish, and the area was steadily becoming the town
ghetto
It open ed my eyes, and makes it hard for me to buy the it is s o sorry abou t them, they had a hard time in their homeland,
they dont know better bullshit.
BUT, for that I dont HATE every single muslim. If the governement had done a better work with their integration politics,
these problems wouldnt exist here.
I do not think that Sweden should send back ALL of the refugees and immigrants, ragheads if you like, to their homelands,
but I believe that the steady flow must end, or at least heavily restricted. And that those who come to seek refuge from
suppression, shall be sent back to their homelands as soon as the threat/conflict is over.
Most important, the desiscion of wich get to stay and wich who doesnt, must take no longer than a couple of months. Not
several years, like now.
And at last, something I heard from a friend a long time ago, about racial equality:
Scientist say that the first men evolved from apes in Africa, and then spread over the world, evolving along the way. The
Africans, them being the first, thus should have had the longest time to develop technologies of different typpes, because
the wouldnt have to wa ste time moving around and su ch . BUT, when the Europea ns discovere d Africa, the black man was
still swinging around in the trees. (not really, but you get the point)
How come the equally intelligent black mans most advanced tool was a bow and arrows, and ability to make fire, when the
white man sailed across the oceans?.
Hope this make sence, its late, and Im tired.
BTW, rap "music", should be banned, that is the biggest threat to the modern society, by ruining the youth.I hate to see kids
running around on the streets in too big clothes, talking with a fake foreign accent. and acting like fucking monkeys.
MAY THE WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD STRIKE UPON THOSE WHO PRODUCE HIP HOP, AND LET THEM BURN IN HELL FOR ALL
ETERNITY. or something like that
12Gauge December 25th, 2003, 10:31 PM

Whites have been directly responsible for all of the shit in the world. Pollution, overpopulation and overcrowding, loss of
human freedom... all from the glorious inventions of the white race. It's because of things like those that I don't even waste
my time worrying about racism anymore.
Horse and shit! Whites are "responsible" for overpopulation and overcrowding? I think not- this is the same kind of bullshit
thinking that makes liberal pieces of shit say things like "diversity is our strength" and other "racially harmonious" patently
incorrect platitudes.
Lets us think about China or India- overpopulated and overcrowded with nary a white man in sight. Whites were somehow
responsible for this? What (primarily) white nations are overpopulated and overcrowded? Name some please.
How about South Africa? I didn't agree with apartheid- I don't really think any racial group should be suppressed solely
because of the color of their skin- but the facts speak for themselves. Run by whites, the country was generally peaceful and
prosperous- even in the face of major trade restrictions brought on them by more socially acceptable "progressive" nations.
They did well right up until the government handed the country over to the terrorist group (run by Mandela), the ANC. Trade
restrictions were lifted, the country should have flourished. Instead, years later they have rampant crime- murder rates higher
than nearly anywhere else in the world and whites being run off their legally owned property, if not outright killed. Hows that for
progress?
When you think about Africa, remember that before the largely "civilized" white man came to Africa- Black Africa was largely
made up of warring tribes (all Black, mind you) who were doing a bang up job of killing each other by the thousands- with,
again, not a white man in sight.
To blame the white race for all the troubles of the world is to be sadly out of tune with reality.
Now- you want to see a society that has done well for itself, let us look at Japan. I think you'd have a hard time saying that
the economic turn-around that the Japanese people have achieved since the end WWII is nothing short of amazing. How can
this possibly be in a country that is almost completely made up of the Japanese (some of the most racist people on Earth)
race? Isn't diversity our strength? How is it that the Japanese managed to do so well without "the great melting pot" that we
enjoy so much?
Give your head a shake, son. You have been filled with a huge load of liberal diversity bullshit- mostly due to your public
school education. Maybe try researching a little (accurate) history before you say something so patently stupid. Your ignorance
shows.

Alright, I need to get a little off topic here. Just because a society is more "advanced" doesn't make it better than another
society. Sure, us pasty ones have electricity and running water in every home, we've invented nuclear weapons and rapid
communications, and what good is it all for? Technology takes away human freedom and autonomy. Because everything is
done for us, we have to spend our time doing things that are really useless when you think about it. Man did not evolve over
hundreds of thousands of years to waste away in a cubicle and die leaving behind nothing but his social security card number.
I'd take 30 years of primitive excitement over 80 years of techno-industrial boredom.
Sure, you can tell me "If you hate your life so much here, why don't you LEAVE and join some African tribe?" Simply because,
in time, western culture will pollute wherever I can flee to. No culture as a whole can resist the shiny objects the western media
can dangle before their eyes. The government is even invading Amish culture on the basis of "child labor laws." What a crock
of shit. Amish culture isn't consistent with the values of the system, and that's why the government fucks around with them.
So in closure, nigs do indeed piss me off now and then, but this whole argument of "We have more advanced technology than
them" isn't cutting it for me.
apathyboy December 26th, 2003, 06:18 AM

NBK: I misspelled Canada because I don't respect this socialist, mismanaged, frozen wasteland enough to use its correct
name. It's a not-incredibly-subtle form of mockery, but it probably isn't necessary because my country speaks for itself.
But if you want to be that picky, spell "Nobel awards" correctly.
Anyways, so what if they studied at WHITE universities? WHITE people were studying at those universities too, and they
obviously a ren't d iscovering things at the same rate. For that matter, if the p rofess ors are WHITE why aren t they doing
ground breaking research instead of sitting around teaching people how to do what they should be doing themselves. Perhaps
it's a manifestation of the saying "those who can't do, teach".
Now you're comparing Hitler to th e anti-Christ? Didn t your last post claim that Hitler was like Jesus? Of course, in cluding the
Bible in any argument weakens it, but this is a little much.
I'm thinking that the Jews in America didn't invent SRBM's because America is surrounded by thousands of kilometres of
WATER. A fixed firing point missile with a range of about 250 km is going to be utterly useless. Or do you have so much
respect for Jewish cleverness that you expect them to have come up with a Titan II right away?
Enrico Fermi managed to make a functioning nuclear reactor with resources that were no greater than what was given to
Heisenberg by December 1942, while the Germans never constructed one, and they had a head start on research. The fact is
they didn't make a bomb (or a reactor for that matter) because they didn't know how, not because they didn't have the
money.
Sarevok
You think I'm ignorant? Maybe you should read a little less of the Bible, and a little more history.
The Jewish revolt and the subsequent destruction of the temple occur less than 40 years after the death of Jesus. One of the
reasons for the revolt: Emperor Nero's procurator Florus tried to confiscate silver from the temple (66 AD). When they
protested and mocked him, he had his soldiers sack the market and crucify some of the Jews.
Does this really sound like a government that would cave under the meagre pressure that the Jews could apply? They were so
afraid of offending the Jews so they killed an innocent man, a very well known and important man, yet 35 years later they
attempt to steal silver from a temple and then crucify the Jews that protest?
I'm sorry, but you can't deny that fault rests mainly on Pontius Pilate.
When they tried O.J. Simpson, people said he should be executed. Had the courts caved in and said "we think that this guy is
innocent, but we're going to listen to that angry mob over there and kill him anyways" who would you say was responsible? The
court's job was to tell those people to piss off and that Simpson had to have a fair trial (which he didn't but, that's not the
point).
Actually, Judaism was the first religion to believe in a monotheistic non-corporeal god. They didn't borrow a whole lot from the
religions of the day, because the main religions were polytheistic pagan ones that had the gods wandering the earth having
sex with virgin women and producing hero children (hmm, I've heard that story recently...)
Is that a record rant NBK? I haven't seen one that long for a while anyway:p
I'm not knocking you for selling slurpies, as you rightly say, honest work is always to be admired.Telecoms is right, we
discussed it fairly recently, and having seen some of the people that have made a packet, I have no doubt that you'd be
successful at it - you just have to raise your sights a little. Yes, you could make millions through crime, but if you can do it
legitimately, why would you ever bother? You could still be the badass mofo without actually being a criminal. Just being
successful doesn't mean that you're a guaranteed victim, about to be ripped off.
To all the non-NBK nazis out there, this is why I have some respect for NBK's position, because his views are articulate, logical,
and utterly committed. Whereas most of the people who pretend are just saying it because of their own ignorance and inability
to think for themselves. NBK on the other hand has taken many years of unpleasant experience, combined it with his
intelligence and worked out where exactly he stands. That doesn't make it any less wrong, but I know there is no point in
trying to influence him.
There is a lot of truth in what NBK says about work ethic between differtent countries, but again, who's to sday what is right and
what is wrong. Nothing in the universe is an absolute, there are always degrees. This is why when you see some black people
doing fuck all, you can bet your ass that there are some others doing a shitload of work. Same in India, same everywhere I've
been, the states included. But by making absolute judgements you perpetuate your own prejudice. NBK's beliefs are abhorrent
to me, although some of the observations he makes are correct. That said I accept him as I do most things in life, as part of
the complex fabric of the universe. I know that for every NBK, there is an equal, who puts their talent to good use, bringing
love and joy instead of hatred and bitterness.

I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of businesses that are successful are that way because they're inherently
corrupt and fucking people over.
Unlike most businesses, if I'm going to fuck you over, this fact will be made immediately clear to you (likely at gun point! :D)
and not discovered months down the line when you find out you got fucked by some fineprint contract that's enforced through
liens and lawsuits filed by social parasites (lawyers), enforced at gunpoint by uniformed thugs (cops), on the orders of puppets
controlled by the pursestrings of big businesses (judges), who'll then apply a punk tax on your ass by taking all your shit
(asset seizure) and tossing you into a slave pit (prison) for the best reason of all...BECAUSE THEY CAN!
So, by being a criminal, I'm being honest with myself. I couldn't look myself in the mirror and feel good about my loot if I had
to do some sleazy shit like scamming old folks out of their pensions or kicking families out of their homes after stealing their
houses from them using lawyers.
Nor could I live with knowing that the taxes from my "legal" business were being used to support a corrupt terrorist ZOG
regime called the "Government" of the United States, a regime that supports the oppression of the Aryan race by allowing a
flood of human garbage into what was once the greatest nation on earth, all in the name of PROFIT for companies that don't
even employ white americans anymore, but rather export the jobs to third world shitholes, or import the shit to work for near-
nothing here.
With me, there'd no pretense, you would know you're getting robbed. The entire proceeds would fund an all-Aryan enterprise
(me! ;)), no taxes would be paid on it to support the oppressors of my Race, and no muds would benefit from the
money...quite the opposite.
No long and drawn out drama of going to court, filing meanless bullshit paperwork that's not going to do a damn bit of good
anyways, and getting Bubba'd by the legal system that's only purpose is to ensure the survival of the status quo and fuck you
if you aren't rich to start with.
And there's plenty of rich muds to prey upon, so I wouldn't have to take from whites to come up. However, race traitors are fair
game.
As for my "religious" beliefs, Nazism is my religion, so how about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. As you've
said, I'm not going to change my mind, so there's no point in arguing over it.
I will say that more people become racist from being "tolerant", than become "tolerant" after having been racists, usually after
something involving a mud triggers their latent racism...like a robbery, raping, or some such.
The only people I don't believe are racists are the ones fucking a mud. If you are "tolerant" enough to let one in you, or go
into one, than you are definately not a racist....just a race traitor.
And I don't bring only "hatred and bitterness". Maybe to the muds, but to The Race I would wish only the love of unity and
fellowship, and the joys of endless frontiers (space) to explore with all of eternity (immortality) to explore them.
I'm always seeing such short-sighted people moaning about how crowded the earth would get if everyone lived forever. That's
not a problem if the planet was made much less crowded. ;) And what difference would it make if all Aryans lived forever if you
have the entire UNIVERSE to expand into?
I'll stop now before I get started on yet another rant. :)

Noooo, NBK, by all means, I actually enjoy reading yoru rants... out of most peoples, yours actually make sense. Im not
saying that the arguements of others dont make sense, but yours 'hit home'.
Everyone knows my stance on religion already, since I made that clear in the thread "Is there a god??" so I wont bother going
into that. However, my stance on racism is similar to NBKs, however, I have tolerance for some black people. I wouldnt risk my
neck to save their asses, but I can tolerate their existance.. so long as it doesnt interfeer with mine. I myself have one black
friend... and despite him being black, hes more white than many of the white people I know. Everything about him is 'white'
other than his skin... if a blind man were to meet him, there would be no way for them to tell that he is black. Hes articulate,
refraining from saying shit lile "nigga, lets get us sum hoes" etc. He listens to no rap, he doesnt dress like other black people
around here do, his life isnt based on getting high and drunk. Hes probably the only black guy I actually respect. Other black
people however... I would as soon unload a clip into their head as speak to them.
Some small things
Hitler said in "Mean Kamf"(I read english one,of course) that Japanese were aryans.He,in fact described aryans and jews as
two types of human beings that later he projected on German race and the Jews.
And till when the WHITEMAN developed so much to be so proud:rolleyes:.The first city is supposed to be the Sumerian
cities(not Jericho,just reminding since Jericho was very small to be comparable to Sumerian cities anyway) and IIRC Sumeria is
Dajla-Farat delta in central asia.
When egyptians built pyramids then rome wasn't there at the first place.Let me tell you the stories of Iron age,the age of torn
human flesh,burnt bones and spilled blood.
Before the Dorian barbaric hordes of so called aryans came in the greek peninsula,there was a civilization triving in there.They
don't have a name as such so they are called on their place "Creeto-micinion"(sp?) civilisation.They had very well built cities,a
ruling system,tax collection system,law and order,and they knew the script.Now, they were not very good warriors against
humans(of course they were able to protect themselves against animals but not the kind they were invaded by).Well,they fell
and on that land the dorian, barbarian,aryan clans "settled" and vola! the "first civilization":rolleyes: came into being,the
greek civilisation.OH! and the greeks develoded their own script 800 years after they destryed micinions.
And BTW Gengis khan was the best general who NEVER lost a battle,killed 30 million people and mongols were the one that
built largest empire of the world of all the times.His tactics and his innovations,the uniform army,cavalery archers,entire army
on the horse back etc. did not lose relevence till the advent of machine gun.And what about the great rome falling like castle
of cards in the hands of Huns.IIRC Huns were asians.
Is it all about war?Is that the place where achivement of humankind resides?Is the power and hunger for
more,bloodlust,apathy,greed and fear makes a man better or superior?Well than definitely the WHITEMAN IS superior and I
want to BE inferior.
When Indus velly cities had sanitation in them the WHITEMAN WAS living in the caves.When Indian economy (2000 years ago)
was incontestable WHITEMAN was looting his surroundings.Thats the way it had been it the WEST.Rome destroyed
Carthege(sp?) because in economy they couldn't contest them.Once the rome was seized by barbarians(after huns obviously)
the romans ransomed their own city for 200kg. Indian pepper.India was always famous for it's welth and thats exactly the
reason the mediaval explorations were made to find a sea rout to it( and to rob it).Don't talk about economy,it's always the
war that desided the fate of countries.
AAha! and WHITEMAN know only about "kama sutra" when it comes to Indian books.Now, that is interesting.So of all the great
and fine books of Indian origin WHITEMAN CHOSE to read "kama sutra".Doesn't this mply something about WHITEMAN rather
than Indian books.There are plenty much of pornographic "literature" in west as well but if you ask Indians they don't know or
assocciate western literature by that.If one CHOSE to read porn it is HIS choice.
Ups and downs are natural in history.
BTW,do you know the problem of India?Or do you know the problem of divercity?apparently not. It is not divercity,it's the
muslims that are "the problem".All your examples of countries degrading because of divercity are the one that have muslims
as one group in them.Rest is obvious.BTW, Japan has mixed religion,that is shinto+bauddh,but it's fine for them,actually it IS
fine,actually everything is fine till islam is not there.
Let me tell you,these are different kind of people,honestly! I don't know what is that guids them. Apparently they don't want to
live a life of their own.These fucktards "serve" a book and probably that what they live for.Well,actully I don't know but let me
substantiate myself with facts.
India:1947,The country had muslim minority 24%.The muslims wanted a seperate country of their own.And they got it as
well,and that was 30% of the land.But great! only 15% out of 24% moved to that newly aquirred 30% land and 9% remained
in India.In 50 years they multiplied themselves and now they constitue 16% of total population.20 lakh people were killed in
paritition,and 2 carore hindus were displased.Well, the displaced people readyly assimilitated in India and now they don't exist
as a seperate identity.
Pelestine:1949,the Jews captured a small part of the country that called Israel now.Some 30 lackhs Palestiniens were
displaced.What the Palastiniens did? They did not find new place to live,they did not move out of the country.They made
refuse camps and the fucktards are living in the same camps for 50 years,and strangely enough,even in the so called
inhuman and wreched hostile conditions,they managed to multiply to double(in fact more than that).As for the Jews,they are
increasing because of foreign influx rather than "multiplication".BTW,fertility rate in Jews,2 children per female,fertility rate in
palestinien,at least 4 children per female.NBK you don't need to worry about Israel at least,50 years down the line they will be
undone;)
Labenan:1950,The muslim minority exeeded to 40% and there were riots in all over the country.The Cristians fled and
assimilited in greece or Italy and various parts of europe,They DID NOT made refuse camps and lived in them.
Thats the way muslims are,and thats the way they shall be.They want entire world for some reason.It is they who invade first
and take a territory and when defeated they don't leave it,they make REFUSE CAMPS and lo! there becomes a humanitarian
crisis.These people will NEVER stop doing that long as they exist or long as they don't really take entire world:rolleyes:.You
cant isolate yourself ,you can't overlook,you can't hide.For instance WTC incident.(Personally I felt good about it)
Well going a bit more deep.Is't that the behaviour that Europe showed in mediaval time?Exploring new regions and killing or
converting the entire population there,burning their literature and art work,destrying everything good.Well greeks also
conquered a lot of territories,so as romans and so as percians.They didn't burn the literature or destroyed architecture of
conquered people.But the cristians did it and so as muslims and so as Jews.BTW ,where do you think all the original greek and
roman books are?they are ashes because cristians burnt them.Library of alexendria? or Library of Constantinople?ha! they
burnt all,where are the books that were written by "herodotus" ash,where is Idica? ash,where is *** ? ash.
This is what cristians did to greeko-roman heritage and same is what muslims did to Indian books.
Well,Percia conqured Israel twice.Old testament survived even other books.Geece was conquered by Mecedonia but greek
heritage survived,Greece was conquered by Rome but Greek Heritage survived.Egypt was conquered twice by Percia and
numorous times by Greeko-romans but egyptian heritage survived,in fact these people built libraries(library of Alexendria was
in Egypt if someone doesn't know that was ultimately burnt by cristians,altough some people say it was burnt by muslims,well
one and same thing).
Egypt was conquered only once by muslims and everything evaporated in thin air.
And just forgot when Jews took Canan they just eliminate all the cananites.
So,It is "the books"(I've written in detail about "the books" in "Is there a god" thread) that make man Bloodthirsty,brbarian
and bastard.West progressed because it left "the book" behind.
Sorry if things appear unconnected,I'm getting tired,I've something to say but maybe I've not expressed it enough.
the previous post appered while I was writng this and yes I enjoy the "rants".
Nihilist December 27th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Thrall you're post would have been improved considerably if you put spaces after you're punctuation marks and if you used
some better gramatical english ;) However, the content was definitely quite good.
Almost everything you said proves one of my theories about the world which is that organized religion is the root of all evil. I
can cite so many sources of this and so many cases where this has been proven to be true, that I won't even bother, because
you can come up with them on your own. Muslims are of course the most hardcore of religious believers, most of them are
willing to die or kill or both for their beliefs(i'm not saying that their all terrorists, becuase that's far from true, I am saying that
they would die and/or kill for their beliefs, if they thought that they were being challenged). Thus musliims very commonly end
up killing people and destroying literature, the main functions of organized religion =p.

Religion? The cause of evil?
Look at this then...
OK, so girls require time and money, so

Girls = Time * Money
And as we all know, time is money (Einstein even said so himself), so
Girls = Money * Money
Girls = Money2
And as we all know, money is the root of all evil
Girls = The square root of Evil2
Therefore, we are forced to conclude that
Girls = Evil :)
On a more serious note, I do agree that religion causes a lot of evil and does nothing but hamper the progress of the human
race.

Thrall, just to clear it out for you...
Hitler didnt call the japanese for aryans in "Mein Kampf".
He divided the races into three different cathegorys in his book

: culture creators, that was the white men, the aryan race. it was when they came in contact with other people, and used them
as workpower, that the first cultures outside europe was created.
"culture carriers" where people, for exemple the japanese, wich thanks to influence from the white race, could continoe to
evolve. If that influence disappeared, the culture would fall within years.
The third, lowest type of man, was the "culture destroyers", That was the jews. He wrote, that the jews goal, over time was to
infiltrate cultures, and then, when they had enough power, bring it to a fall.
Arkangel December 27th, 2003, 06:20 AM

Thrall, I enjoyed your post. Keep working on the punctuation, but you're getting there - a HUGE improvement on your earlier
writing.
For those that don't know, 1 Lakh = 100,000, one Crore = 10,000,000
And I guess you meant refugee camp, not refuse camp.............Or am I mistaken?

Well black people ("niggers") you may say an genectically inferoir to white people however they are still bound to have a few
genes in them that would be superior to ours. As you should know there skin has alot of myelin in it which makes them black.
Now in an area of the world that has lots of sun like Australia or Africa this stops people from getting sunburnt and reduces the
instance of skin cancer. Myelin is natural sunscreen so while you may say they are inferior to us, there skin colour gives them
a genetic advantage because while white man will burn, black man wont have to worry.
So if I was going to create a master race, I'd be taking a few genes from the black man to make our master race less reliant
on sunscreen. It may sound stupid but getting bad sunburn is horrible.
And xyz. Girls are evil, but dont tell them that or you'll never get any pussy. and believe me dating is just like politics and war.
Money is crucial and a strategy is nessecary.

Flake2m, whether or not you tell them that depends on the girl :p
Skyscraper December 27th, 2003, 07:52 AM

Well black people ("niggers") you may say an genectically inferoir to white people however they are still bound to have a few
genes in them that would be superior to ours. As you should know there skin has alot of myelin in it which makes them black.
Now in an area of the world that has lots of sun like Australia or Africa this stops people from getting sunburnt and reduces the
instance of skin cancer. Myelin is natural sunscreen so while you may say they are inferior to us, there skin colour gives them
a genetic advantage because while white man will burn, black man wont have to worry.
The pigmentation chemical (at least the one in question) is melanin, not myelin. Myelin is the white coating of some nerve
cells that insulates them, and speeds up the nerve impulses. If black people were covered in myelin, they'd be white, and ah,
well-insulated.
------------------------
Don't quote whole posts!
Rhadon
chemoleo January 2nd, 2004, 03:01 PM

Lets not forget one more aspect of genetic *superiority* of blacks (surprising as this may be :D): They are by FAR more
physically adept. They are universally gifted in sports (just look at the proportion of black vs white in basketball, athletics etc),
and often are able to dance coordinatedly and flowingly without any lessons, while whites often struggle. Their rythmic/musical
abilities are also high ...
Conversely, the average IQ is about 10 points lower, so their mean is at 90, while it is at 100 for the Caucasian white race.
Nonetheless, looking at the Gaussian shaped distribution of IQ values vs number of people, there is still a significant portion
of smart blacks.
Anyway, if you chose to define average intelligence as the measure of superiority of one race over another, then yes, whites
would be superior. But that doesnt mean whites are universally superior, and neither does it mean that one can conclude from
such data that every black individual you meet is necessarily inferior. Hence, where is the justification for cleansing the world of
certain races?
Besides, I often think that whites *evolved* to be more intelligent as the conditions were *set* (that is, set by higher
circumstances) so that they could evolve in this direction. Under different conditions, or, if certain events hadnt happened,
then the old Sumers (in todays Iraq), the Egyptians etc might be what we consider todays Western World. The rise of the
Western white world was more of a chance event than anything else, it didnt happen IMHO because whites were inherently
superior from the start. There were many stagnating times during that rise, where things might have returned back to anarchy
and loss of civilisation... just look at the plague, religious oppression etc etc.
At last, who is to say what is to happen in a few/many thousand years? on a geological scale, the rise of the Western World
and white dominance might be just a quick era, where future generations might just laugh about old primitive ideas such as
racial superiority, purity, etc.
People will ultimately have to realise that the mind is what matters, and not the colour of skin, slanted eyes, blonde/blueeyed-
ness, or physical attributes. The mind is what makes the human race special, and hence any human should be judged
accordingly.
NightStalker January 3rd, 2004, 12:29 AM

The fastest men may be black, but the strongest men (weightlifters) are white. Guiness Book of Records if you don't believe
me.
Flake2m January 3rd, 2004, 01:51 AM

Skyscaper I might have been wrong, but newbies shouldn't subvert more established forumites. Though its good to see you
know your human biology.
I judge people by their actions and waht they say. I don't judge people by there race, income, religon or sex. People that
deserve respect get it. People that demend respect have to earn it. People that dont give me any respect get none
themselves.
Skyscraper January 3rd, 2004, 10:03 AM

Skyscaper I might have been wrong, but newbies shouldn't subvert more established forumites.
I would hardly say that I'm "subverting" you. Perhaps you meant, "contradict"?
Are you saying that I'm wrong? Or merely that it's bad for newbies to point out when you make a mistake?
If so, why?
Do you take every correction as a personal affront?
---------------
Rhadon- Sorry about that. I'll stop.

Well while everyone is arguing, I was just curiouse how many people here are atheist. I am a white, atheist male and I do not
hate blacks or asians. The only funny part of that website was the fact that those ignorant mother fuckers that worship Adolf
Hitler dont even know shit about him. For instince he was Catholic, KKK members must be Christian(which one of the clan
leaders mispelled by the way). I'm not against racism or even genocide and I dont hate Hitler as most other people do so
dont take as some fagit bunny hugger but during the times we live in, it would be better to keep these things to yourself and
friends.
kingspaz January 3rd, 2004, 06:54 PM

catholic IS christian. 'christian' has many subdivisions which believe various other acts of a pigs anus.

The Catholic church and the Christian church were damn near at war for many many years due to different beliefes. Slight
differences yes but differences none the less.
PHAID January 3rd, 2004, 09:29 PM

The church is the mafia for tha masses.
You do have to give them credit though, they have brainwashing down to a science.
I find it funny that about every nut case in the world has god on their side but the evil satan is never mentioned when a idiot
kills a bussload of people.
Kind of makes you wonder that if there is a higher power who is the good one?

Religion is the cause for Sep.11 and the reason for all the muslum fucks that train for combat on the munkey bars.
I dont mind a little war in the world on a constant bases but when they atatck me...fuck that. No one takes an axe to my
family tree. Thats what this country is to each and every man women and child in this country and no man living in this counrty
can give sound reason why he should not fight to the bloody death for it. Without religion(and niggers spiks and wiggers) the
world would be a marval of wonder and beauty with endless posabilities.
I'm very happy to see this reaction about religion and god from you all. It's good to know I'm not alone on this subject.
Nihilist January 4th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Not true, while religion is not so neccessary currently, it was in the past. Without religion we would be nowhere today, we would
still be cavemen. religion allows for control of people and restraint. Without it there would be no morality(and thus no progress
if people are going around killing each other constantly). So, religion served it's purpose and now for the most part is slowly
dying out as it should, because it is no longer a neccessary aspect of society. It is evolution in action.

I just said basicaly that. I said that religion was created a long time ago because people needed it back then.
And fuck man kind! So you are saying(and I aggree) that without religion we would do nothing but kill and prey on those
weaker than ourselves and therefor have nothing(be cavemen) Do you realize how pathetic that is? Without this made up set
of rules and a punishment if they are broken,(reminds me of kindergarden) man kind would be no where. Religion doesnt
dictate anything I do. If I want you dead, your fucking dead and you deserved it! I dont need a book to tell me what to do I'm
plenty smart enough without it. I'm ashamed of mankind.
The Anarch January 4th, 2004, 05:08 AM

Keith, what you meant to say before was that all klansmen need to be Protestant. True Hitler was raised a Catholic, but him
and the rest of his crew toyed with the idea of forcing the old pagan religions of Germania on the people. They eventually
decided against it because it would have caused them an unnessecary loss of support from Christians. Personally, I'd choose a
pagan religion before christianity any day. The pagan religions were all about human nature rather than the basic Christian
principle of "If it feels good, it's wrong."
Without religion we would be nowhere today, we would still be cavemen.
If you claim to be a nihilist, what do you have against being cavemen? That would be the perfect life for me.
Anthony January 4th, 2004, 07:38 AM

Wondering if someone could clarify something for me about klansmen/nazis etal.
On TV, you always see redneck "nazis" doing Nazi salutes. However, they thump their hand against their chest before
extending it to complete the salute. I can't recall any member of the third reich doing this. AFAIK, the action was made up for
that episode of Star Trek where they go to the nazi inhabited planet.
Am I on to something here, or totally got it wrong?
metafractal January 4th, 2004, 09:33 AM

Sounds to me like a perfect example of a Baudrillian simulacrab. The dominance of the electronic age has caused the masses
to take the information that contriubutes to their perception of reality (which in turn determines their beliefs, and the
manifestations of their beliefs) primarily from the media's/superficial pop culture's projection of reality rather than from reality
itself (a projection that originates from reality, but has no obligation to continue to represent it at all!). So, yes, it is probable
that the rednecks use the Star Treck's appropriation of the salute rather than the actual salute of the thrid reich. That would
mean that while they believe they are rebelling against their hated 'ZOG', they are actually saluting it! How well that sums up
the modern age!
(Oh, and before I start up a postmodernism debate, yes, most postmodernism is bullshit, but there are a few good ideas in
there.)

Without religion we would be nowhere today, we would still be cavemen.
Really?
During the history of science, who halted science the most and burned it's books?
john_smith January 5th, 2004, 08:55 AM

religion allows for control of people
Soooo true...I have nothing against religion as long as its just some people believing something, but as soon as their god(s)
start(s) having "licenced dealers" on earth it will go all shit. Think Spanish Inquisition, todays Islamic countries etc.
Nihilist January 5th, 2004, 10:33 PM

Vulture I agree, they did stop a lot of our progress, however they made it possible in the first place. Without a fear of hell and
a desire for heaven, people would be uncrontrollable, and thus no progression would have occured. It is only through control
that you can achieve progress(this only applies to large populations of sheeple, in intelligently populated areas, such as the
internet for example, such types of control are much less neccessary).
The Anarch: I am a Nihilist, you clearly have read the textbook, and rather untrue definition of a nihilist which is "the belief
that everything must be destroyed", which to a certain extent is in-keeping with the real ideals of nihilism, but not entirely.
Check out: www.counterorder.com for a better idea of what it really is.
tom haggen January 13th, 2004, 12:00 PM

The first impression I ever got of a nihilist was from the Big Laboski. They threw a weasel in that guys bath tub. They seem
like a bunch of pussies to me.
tmp January 16th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Values are the one of the few things in life that bind groups together, especially
societies. Differences in values can lead to groups opposing each other at
various levels - sometimes with deadly consequences. Most human beings will
experience these "differences" at least once in their lifetime. 9/11 is a painful
reminder of these "differences".
The Islamic world views those outside their belief system as being evil and in
need of destruction. I've often wondered if it isn't simply a con job, with the
so-called elder statesman laughing their asses off, when they brainwash people
with religious bullshit and convince them to become human guided missiles or
human Claymore mines. To me at least, this is true evil.
People aren't born with hate and resentment. These are learned behaviors.
Indoctrination and negative experiences seem to lead the way. For me it was
and is the negative experiences of life. I grow more intolerant of people whose
goal in life is to tear down the values I grew up with. There are those who believe
that people like me should tolerate their bullshit and feel guilty and apologize
for being born a WHITE MAN. To them I say dream on - it won't happen !
Unfortunately, I can't point a finger and say that this problem exists only from
those outside my family. I've got some real college-educated jackasses in my
family. They look down, not only on me, but other family members because we
haven't gone to college and got our brains washed by the asshole elitist professors.
It must be nice to go to college for 4 years and to have as your only worry that the
fucking guru with the PhD might flunk you for not kissing his/her ass enough !
These particular family members threw out the values they grew up with. And some
of them have even made disparaging remarks about their parents who busted ass
to put them through school. With the way they live, think, and vote it's clear they
never had to put up with much of the real world as most of us know it.
The elitists within my family are for the most part a pain in the ass and the bulk of
the family choose to ignore them. The elitists with no values at all are the ones that
scare me the most. This the group that seeks controlling power over humanity and
are not below using any means necessary. Their method seems to be based on the
Hegelian principle. In the case of groups with different values the elitist exploits the
"differences" of the groups and profits by having these groups at each other's
throats. The realized profit can be materialistic, such as money or land, but more
often than not the profit is a goal in a social agenda. And when the average person
stands up to say it's wrong the name-calling begins. Racist, anti-Semite, bigot,
hillbilly, gun-nut, Nazi, Fascist, Marxist, Communist, Uncle Tom, cracker - these are
relatively light. It only gets worse. As some people have found out, the elitists can
employ law enforcement to confiscate(armed robbery), harass, intimidate, imprison,
and even kill(murder) with impunity.
The lessons I've learned are clear. Stay true to my values. Ignore those who
consider me less human because of my values or my work. Don't worry about the
name-callers because this is a sign their values don't pass the smell test.
Be prepared to accept the consequences when standing up for my values.
Mike76251 January 16th, 2004, 03:39 AM

Why are they so good at "running" sports?
Because for several thousand years they had to run from wild animals on open plains or get eaten.
Nature works that way.
Why is that race so hated?
Because WHEREVER they go they are the same.
Why do they like rap music?
Because they used to use large drums to send messages over long distances.(hence the rap beat)..........they don't even
know this!
I learned a good lession one day in a high-level biology course; The teacher put up slides comparing a ape's skull, a white's
skull, and a black's skull.
The whole class was shocked to see the black's skull was nearly identical to the ape's. Those two skulls looked nothing like the
white man's.
Of course, there were no blacks in that class because it was a very hard class.
And of course lets not forget that 3 out of 5 of them are either on parole or in prison.
Who are you going to blame for this?
And of course lets not forget that 3 out of 5 of them are either on parole or in prison.
Ehm, don't you think that's a tiny weeny little bit exaggerated?
They look down, not only on me, but other family members because we
haven't gone to college and got our brains washed by the asshole elitist professors.
It must be nice to go to college for 4 years and to have as your only worry that the
fucking guru with the PhD might flunk you for not kissing his/her ass enough !
I'm a college student... So does that make me an elitist? It's not because GWB got his grades by asskissing and his fathers
influence that everyone does.
In fact, I think there are not enough educated people in politics. Have you ever seen an environment secretary who had a
degree in chemistry and thus knew WTF they were talking about?
No, most of them are ex-greenpeace nutcases who label everything starting with chem as evil.
tmp January 16th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Vulture, I didn't mean to imply that all people who attend college are elitist
or brainwashed. For that I apologize. I've had some college but can't afford to
go back and therefore unable to complete my electrical engineering degree.
I should have pointed out that I was exposed to(unfortunately also required)
courses in literature and sociology where the gurus did indeed inject some of
their social agenda in the course. I disagreed with them but didn't make waves
in the classroom or on paper because I didn't want to have to repeat the course.
The instructors I had in the math and science departments were fantastic !
They didn't bother with politics and stuck to the subject matter at hand. I don't
know if this difference is due to their backgrounds, the college's background,
or what. It puzzles me to this day.
As for some of the college-educated in my family, their backgrounds are

definitely NOT in the math or science fields and at the very least they act like
snobs toward the rest of the family. They act like the elitists I despise.
I don't like being told that I'll never amount to anything in life without a college
degree. Like I said in my last post, these members had the luxury of going to
college full-time with few worries. I went part-time at night paying my own way.
The college-educated in my family are constantly on my ass about going back.
To them: GET OFF MY FUCKING BACK !
You commented on George Bush's education. I understand his GPA was in the
'C' range - mediocre. Less than admirable given the carefree environment he
grew up in. There's no excuse for that lame performance. Money doesn't buy
intelligence.
I'll go back when I'm financially able. BTW, you hit the nail on the head about
the Greenpeace people. They don't like us because we like chemistry, physics,
and the hard sciences in general. Have you ever felt like you're walking around
with targets painted all over your body ? Sometimes I do !

should have pointed out that I was exposed to(unfortunately also required)
courses in literature and sociology where the gurus did indeed inject some of
their social agenda in the course.
Ah! You know, that sounds kinda familiar. ;)
Sociologists and especially philosophers, like to sneak their way into the "hard" exact sciences like chemistry, physics and
maths. Mostly that is because they attempted one of the sciences themselves, but failed miserably. Thus, they try to get in
afterwards by giving scientific philosophy to science students. This was EXACTLY the case for my philosophy prof.
Funny thing I had to retake the exam...hmmm...:rolleyes:
The college-educated in my family are constantly on my ass about going back.

To them: GET OFF MY FUCKING BACK !
They should. A higher education that you didn't like is worse than no higher education at all.
Have you ever felt like you're walking around

with targets painted all over your body ? Sometimes I do !
Sometimes? All the time! "Chemistry??? "You're studying chemistry??? Are you fucking insane!!??? Do you have a deathwish??
?" or funny remarks like "Now don't blow up the lab/house/shed/whatever!"
And then they wonder why oh why chemists ever discovered chemical weapons.... :rolleyes:
Sweet, sweet revenge..:p ....MUHAHAHAHA
streety January 16th, 2004, 04:56 PM

When people say that to me I just describe what goes on in some of my Biology practicals . . . now that is far more scary.
Vulture, I'll go back to college when it's financially feasible. The parts of college I
disliked are already completed. This leaves the fun stuff that I love - math
and science ! It sounds like you've had some misery with the non-science
types yourself. On the other side of that coin, some of the non-science types
have asked questions like "Where will you ever use algebra/calculus/differential
equations in a job ?". Doesn't have to be a job. I learned how to construct
a very useful device with differential equations - a cable filter !
But back on topic. Sadly, people like us(with or without the degree) will always be
viewed as a threat precisely because science is our passion. And some of what I
see being passed around as science irks the hell out of me. One of my nephews
got a blue ribbon for a science project on recycling. This consisted of collecting
and sorting trash into categories. WTF ? A co-worker asked me about a science
project for her son. I suggested a tornado simulator which I offered to construct.
She said the school wouldn't allow it because it used a hotplate. Nor can the projects
involve the use of ANY chemical. My primary education occurred during the
late 60's and early 70's and the standards were a lot higher than they are now. Is this watered down science the result of
lawsuits ? Is it the result of lowering standards
so that more people will pass ? Is it the intentional dumbing down of the
population ? Is it any combination of the 3 previous questions ? I know how this
thread started. That's why I have to ask.

Originally posted by vulture
Ehm, don't you think that's a tiny weeny little bit exaggerated?
If you are referring to "3 out of 5 are...." no I don't.

This is a fact that has been reported by the FBI,CNN,USA Today and many other news sources.
Show the board why you doubt it if you do.
vulture January 17th, 2004, 06:46 AM

A co-worker asked me about a science
project for her son. I suggested a tornado simulator which I offered to construct.
She said the school wouldn't allow it because it used a hotplate.
Oh my. Doesn't that also sound awfully familiar. Although, I know someone who has to make a project about chemical
weapons and the teacher approved the synthesis of benzylbromide/iodide. However, it couldn't be carried out in the school lab,
apparently because of lack of chemicals or the fear of the teacher...:p
Anyways, SWIM volunteered to carry it out...
This whole liability bullshit is seriously fucking things over. Parents regard their children as cows, from which they can milk
money if they ever get hurt/maimed/killed because the teacher sneezed when they dropped 10% H2SO4 in a beaker.
:rolleyes:
Sarevok January 17th, 2004, 01:09 PM

apathyboy, I didn't say you were ignorant, I said you were ignorant about the bible; the former is namecalling, the latter isn't -
EVERYONE is ignorant about some things, even Isaac Newton or whoever. I, for example, was ignorant about that silver
stealing from the Temple.
Jews "stole" things from other cultures; The Noah' Ark history, for example, was originally a sumerian history, not a jewish one.
Interesting how a joke about negroids can make so much people become aggressively argumentative, while a joke about a
blonde hasn't the same effect. Perhaps its funny to be racist against whites.
apathyboy January 18th, 2004, 03:33 AM

Sarevok, I joke about everything, including race, but some groups have a reason to get their backs up. Sure, blond jokes are
funny (kinda) but you know, nobody ever enslaved blonds. Or gassed a couple million of them.
Blond jokes are based on a stereotype, while blacks were in fact made into slaves, and are still a little bitter about that. Not
that they should be freaking out against any white guy who uses the term nigger, but if someone had enslaved your
grandparents, you might be a little choked if someone started making fun of it.
About the Jews, yeah, I know. I'm taking a philosophy of religion course, and the consensus opinion on the Jews is that they
started out as polytheists, and over a few centuries(!) made their way into henotheism and then monotheism. But I like to try
and piss off Christians, because they're supposed to "turn the other cheek". :p
But I didn't know that about the flood myth. Damn, it seems every religion has one. I'd think they could imagine a better
natural disaster than a flood. :rolleyes:

Blondes were never slaved, but they are gang raped by negroids all around. Here, some months ago, a white student was
raped by a negroid. He was sent to jail but was liberated on the same day. On the same newspaper I read that, its easy to
find jokes about blondes and leftist texts saying how evil the ocidental patriarchal industrial white christian civilization is. But
jokes about negroids aren't found on newspapers, they are found on obscure websites. Also, blondes and whites will disappear
in some generations thanks to genetics (since blonde hair, white skin, blue eyes, etc, are inherited throught recessive genes)
and interracial fornication while negroids will last as long as most earthly life forms will. So there should be no jokes about
blondes. Extinction is worse than slavery.
Negroids have various school advantagens, thanks to our leftist half-negroid president, which whites (blondes or not) doesn't
have. Negroids might have suffered in the past, but blondes (and whites) suffer in the present and will not exist in the future.
Isn't this a reason for disliking blonde jokes as much as negroid jokes are disliked?
If your intention was to piss off a christian, you wasted your time. I'm no christian.
I knew jews were polytheists some day, everyone was... most arabs were before muhammad. Imagine a non-muslim arab!
That was a long time ago.
Its not only the flood, various religions, including Norse mithology, have a genesis history similar to the jew's one. I'm sure
some religions copied them, while they copied other religions.
Edit: Spelling errors.
snuk5 January 24th, 2004, 09:00 PM

I m no t devo id of racial prejudice myself.
Immigrated into Africa and learned the hard way that my way of thinking, is not in agreement with th e way the majority of the
locals think.
So perhaps its n ot about pigmentatio n, but ra ther abo ut min d-set an d use of the m ind. (If any mind were presen t, in th e
first place!)
Having said tha t, I found the Nig ger Manual the most a ppalling, p iece of work that I ve co me across in a long time.
I m e a n apart from the con tents, the whole web design screa ms I m a blooming trailer trash idiot
Nihilist, the proverb goes: degustibus et coloribus non est disputandum, so you are welcome to your own thing, but how can
this be FUNNY, I ask with tears in my eyes?
snuk5 January 25th, 2004, 12:12 AM

NBK2000,
This is gutsy stuff and I hope you know that many who read this see a lot of vulnerability in you. (A few nerves were touched I
gather.)
But it is not my intention to try to psych obabble you , or put you do wn (probably would have a hard time doing s o) I am
merely struck by the extend of your passion and bitterness.
I am also baffled about the irrationality of some of your thoughts and it pains me to see that you loose sight of objective
thought and even scientific principles!
I find some thing of myself in you, as I am racis t myself, but that is in it self no t sig nifican t it merely makes one ponder
a b o u t one s o wn dispositions and that is the go od thing in a post like yours.
You write some improbable bullshit man! I mean the wishful thinking regarding your cryogenic dreams is a bit too rich to
swallow.
To be a visionary is great, to write embittered balderdash is not!
I m h a n d icapped by right-wing tendencies myself, but in a different way from your kind. I too love the Aryan, European , Nordic
or Nordic culture and am proud of my white ancestry and culture. I love the German language and have the greatest
admiration for the contributions in science, art, culture and philosophy that the Germans have brought forth.
I am also aware that the Negro race is intellectually and often morally of a lesser standing. I too resent that the mere fact
that one men tions this truth m a k e s o n e o s tracize d and heckled, whereas other truths (an d lie s!) that suit the Africa ns
Sycophants (PC term for nigger-lovers) are propag ated beyond reason.
If you don t like to b e a white man in the US as it is now, come to South Africa, where the blacks have bred th emselves into a
majority and no w reap the spo ils of their numerical victory as taken from the white m an who was the brain s and the brawn
behind ju st abo ut e v e r y t h i n g . here. I m ean they can t even count to ten in their own language and use the English
terms for this!
Affirmative action is practiced here with a total disregard for economic sense, or any sense whatsoever. I guess we should be
h a p p y they don t slit ou r throats and we should allow us to be fucked over in just about e very blood y way possible.
But this is not about what I experience here in Africa; I want to put my disagreement with some stuff you say into perspective.
I thin k that m ost of what you say is frin ge-nons ense and I can t comm ent on e verything. But I ll have a go.
Firstly, I have in the past conducted a thought experiment and posed the question: would A. Hitler have made it in mode rn
day politics, with the modern media facilities such as live TV debates, close-up camera work and exhaustive analysis by the
comme ntators?
No bloody way I say! Believe me I have seen altogether many, many hours of footage of Mr Hitler, listened to what he said,
(as opposed from how he said it) and I can tell you that he would have been ripped to shreds in modern times.
His oratory powers were suitable to the masses at the time, and for the state of mind the y were in.
Even in the event of an economic downfall, and the people being hungry for strong leadership, he would still be recognized for
the bullshitting loon that he was.
Have you ever looked at the facial expressions of the man? I mean people complain about GW looking a bit funny at times,
but A Hitler looks downright deranged and even comical much of the time.
Also, I am not what you would call a Jew-Lover, and the re s many a Jewish shyster lawye r or buishnesh-man that deserves to
perish in my eyes, but this Jew thing with Hitler is all sooo pathetic.
I mean you know that the (Jewish) professors at the Arts Academy of Vienna did not think that the looser was good enough
to be accepted as a student, d on t you? Hence six million of the professors brethren had to perish in circumstances that defy
descriptio n, comprehension and -in your case, presumably- belief. (Or don t you deny the nu mbers and conditions in the
concentration camps?)
Hitler was a weirdo who had all kinds of very strange beliefs and he had most peculiar advisors. Fire-and-ice theory, Holy Grail
stuff, the Hollow Earth and much, much more delusional interests.
You are welcome to s ay that it is all Jewish propaganda , but the re are re co rds an d witnesse s who attest to Adolf s eccentric
beliefs.
No, if there is one thin g that one can say for him, it s that he was an oratory geniu s but that does not say a thing about the
merits of what he had to say.
A politician is in th e business of selling the public crap as truth, and promises as a certain outcome as long a s t h e m a s s e s
give him the power. And Hitler was exceptionally good at selling crap to a downtrodden nation; he inspired them and made
them feel great about themselves.
Any Sunday preacher worth his salt, can do the same for an hour, albeit on totally different premises.
Synopsis of Hitler s Formula (with some anecdotal details to liven it all u p):
Give electorate a scape-goat and pep talks about a Thousand Year Empire, set up massive war-industry and employ the
unemployed.
Finance Deficits by invading and plundering neighboring countries, then go to other countries.
Kill the opposition (that should read literally!) Kill the scapegoats en masse.
T h o u sand Year Reich d o e s n t seem viable after ab out five ye ars, sit it out for a few mo re.
Send little kids with explosives in hand against enemy tanks.
In the end realize killing of six million scapegoats will not look good in post-war trials.
Kill girlfriend (sorry wife he tied the knot only a little while ago).
Say: fuck this! and kill ones elf as the Russia ns are knockin g on the door of one s b unker.
Prophet ? hardly I s ay!
Last word I say about this Jew-thing is that one of the reasons why I shy away from calling them names as mud-people and
calling them inferior is because they are not inferior!
To repeat a lie a thousand times does not make it true. The Jews have given us great science, arts and music and the world
would be poorer without them. Just as basket ball (which I never watch anyway) would be poorer without blacks.
The Jews are also more intelligent than gentiles. And before you go and accuse me of lying and calling me a Jewish
propagandist, I say emphatically that I am a Christian born out of strictly Christian families and that I can t even sa y s o m e o f
my best friend are Jews . I can t stand most of th e bugge rs!
I just don t wan t to distort th e true state of affairs, and I d o not wa nt to count myself amongst those sour-grape-losers, who
in their (s ubconscious) envy, loose track of what s real and what s n ot.
Lastly, like it or not but it is biologically wrong to call the Negro race a different species or imply that they are. ( Natu re knows
that mixing is intolerable. How many animals cross-breed with others not of their own? Zero, I believe )
I myself have no problem with the fact that I am of the same species as a black.. I am secure in the knowledge that I have
sufficient genetic differences to see myself as highly distinct from the Negro (and am very happy about it!)
NBK2000 , you proba bly hate my guts after all this; so be it I spo ke the o bjective truth as I s ee it. (Hmmm I see a sm all
oxymoron in my las t sentence lea ve it anyway
O h a n d d o you put Christ in parallel with Hitler to offend or shock? I mean you can t be serio us, as this would put you firmly in
the category hig hly delusional
Christ was a Jew too or did that change in some way when he amassed disciples and follower?
snuk5 January 25th, 2004, 05:20 AM

That loon o f a Hitler wante d to rid the world of the Jews, he wanted it jue denfrei ,
Well I have no friends among the Jews and can t quite stand their little ways, b ut methinks that their contribution s to th e
world heavily outweigh the fact that a few of them deserve a good boot up their but at times.
Why o why do chaps like nbk2000 go on about the Jews so much, but forget so conveniently about the Muslims.
Is it perhaps because they are so much at odds with the Jews? Is that in itself reason enough to let the towelheads get away
with murder?
I mean their culture, religion, scientific acumen, etc is up to bloody crap and they are just like the commies, out to conquer the
world and stifle any opposition in Islamic ruled countries.
And should one b e blasphemous or Satanist -like some here, it s o ff with your little head.
n b k 2 0 0 0 , you can go to Tel Aviv and s cream your head off ab out the god of Abraham and what a sod he is. You d b e
perhaps locked up for disturbing the peace and asked to leave their little patch of dirt.
Now go and try the same in Abu Dhabi, o r any place where Shah ira Law rules. See how they like muhamed s n ame be soiled
and try your Satanist stuff over there.
You see perhaps where the greater danger lies?
During the WW2 the Allieds (well Churchill did have his misgivings) made the mistake to be chummy with the Commies and
think: the e nemy of my enemy is my friend and see where it got us for half a century!
His tory is amazin , so amazin what we can learn from it.
Does calling A Hitler a loon, give cause for censure or banning?
If that be so, I ll quit the practice and take my stuff somewhere else, seeing that yo u are bo ss h ere and have the powe r to
make me waste my time on stuff that is not shown.
But is it because I commit bla s p h e m y or do certain aspects of my critiq ue touch a nerve ?
I do respect you for your other qualities though or I would not frequent this forum, you being in many ways the epitome of
said forum. I mean I like this rogue science stuff and all.
'Like to pick a fight with big guys too :)
nbk2000 January 26th, 2004, 04:40 PM

Three posts in a row?
Post whoring = Death
nesler January 27th, 2004, 08:33 AM

Definition of Irony: Someone repeatedly saying that he doesn't give a shit if he's banned for "blasphemy," because at least
he's spoken his mind, and winding up banned for violating one of the most basic web board rules in the book---repeated
sequential posting is bad.
Regarding the discussed issue, it would seem that the progression of the human race is based upon, well, irony. Massive
genetic swap is required to prevent genetic drift and avoid extinction due to being wiped out by disease, yet now the
propensity towards genetic swap seems to have halted evolution. So if we follow the suggestion of Hitler and countless others
and wipe out several subdivision of the race, we wind up susceptible to mass extinction via disease, and that provides a bit of
a problem for the whole great eternal race thing.
I guess they better get to work on some pretty damn good vaccines then. :rolleyes:
nbk2000 January 27th, 2004, 04:15 PM

As regards my cryogenic "dreams", that's already been discussed in the "Immortality" thread started by me. Also, you must
realize that only half of what I say is serious, the other half is fun. Which is which I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Though it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that spreading out legions of my followers to purge the universe of unter-aliens
is the serious half!
I am totally serious in my belief of possible re-animation after death, mediated by cyrogenic preservation until such time as
technology allows it. To say it is "IMPOSSIBLE!" is to give the rallying cry of the luddite, stuck in the past, and not the visonary
looking towards the future.
And coming from a christian, who's religion says that believers will be sucked up into heaven in a "Rapture", to live forever in
mansions of gold and pearl, and with crowns of light to stand as inheritors of the eternal celestial kingdom of The
Lord...:rolleyes:
And you say my belief in technology enabling reanimation after cryogenic preservation is a kooky idea! HAHA! :p
I don't have to visit S. Africa to know that it's fallen into shit. Though you never hear about the failure of the south african
(nigger) government to maintain order or economic progress in the US media because it doesn't suit the Jew agenda. All you
ever hear about is the astronomical crime rate. Gee, who'd have guessed that a nation overrun with niggers, and fat with the
largesse of decades of White prosperity, would become a mecca of criminal behavior once the ogga-bogga's got control of it
all. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?
Anyone see Lethal Weapon 2? Mel Gibsons character battles against "Evil" apartheid and White S. Africans. The beautiful
blonde S.A. attache' falls in love with him, but is killed by "Evil" White apartheid agents. Mel gets revenge.
Nice action movie, but political messages don't belong in action movies. I'm surprised they didnt' have the S.A. blonde fucking
the nigger cop, but he was married and, being a fictional movie, faithful to his wife.
Anyways, while a lot of movies and shows of the time depreciated apartheid, the proof of failure that is nigger self-rule has
received virtually NO coverage here. Anywhere else in the world? I don't think so. Failure is its own demonstration.
Why? Could it be that the liberal whites don't want to have to face the reality that the niggers are incapable of running a
country to anywhere near the same standards as a white nation? What would this say about their precious beliefs in "equality"?
Surely, if the niggers are the equals of whites, they should be capable of doing anything whites can, right? But they can't. Run
a nation? You're shitting me. They can't run anything more complex than a drug gang (tribe).
(This is the same sort of head-in-the-sand self-delusion that liberals and commie sympathizers exhibited during the cold war,
denying the reality of commie atrocities because it didn't fit in with their beliefs of a socialist utopia.)
The Jews don't care, of course, because they've succeeded in destroying one of the few places in the world where Whites were
rightfully held above the rabble. If the country sinks into a sea of brown human shit (niggers), they could care less, as they
already intended that outcome.
I'm surprised De Klerk didn't use the few nukes the SA army had to destroy the gold and diamond mines prior to handing the
country over to the nigs. You KNOW the Jews are in charge of the gold and diamond production in SA, right?
It would have been a terrible shame if, as the last ship of White refugees sailed out of the port, mushroom clouds sprouted
out of the ground where the mines used to be. RTPB: Destroy that which you can't have.
Let's see the nigs and jews run a country without the artifical aid of mineral wealth to gloss over their shit. Without the gold
and diamonds, SA would have long since fallen into the typical third world shithole fate of never-ending tribal barbarism.
But, perhaps, De Klerk decided to let the world taste the proverb "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." for
themselves. The world pressured De Klerk to let the niggers have a vote. Fine! They got the vote, and now they got the hell of
their own creation. The niggers are probably begging for a return of the White rulers, aren't they? Sure, they were oppressed,
but they didn't have to worry about the lights going out or the water being full of shit.
But they'll not be getting it. They got what they asked for and now they have to live with the consequences of their choices.
Firstly, I have in the past conducted a thought experiment and posed the question: would A. Hitler have made it in mode rn
day politics, with the modern media facilities such as live TV debates, close-up camera work and exhaustive analysis by the
comme ntators?
If a fucktard like Bush can get elected, and probably re-elected, then AH would be elected president for life.
Bush has all the charisma of a bowl of dog shit, but he gets a rightous anger worked up when it comes to talking about war
and revenge.
Now compare him to AH. As you said, AH was a master orator, and many, many people said that he had hypnotic eyes that'd
just overwhelm you into submission, even from 30 rows back.
Add that to a global audience, with all the tricks of the TV trade, and AH would be unstoppable, I think. And the fact that he
would get worked up about things would only be an advantage. How many politicans do you see get worked up over anything,
regardless of what it is? They all act like stuffed corpses reading from scripts. A little animation goes a long way in politics.
Bush got animated over 'he wer on terrar! :p and people responded. Imagine AH's response to some muds flying hijacked
Junkers into the Reichstag!
Pit Bush against Hitler, and Hitler would chew Bush up and spit him out like a used piece of char. You forget, Hitler rose to
power on his own, not by having his brother rig a vote for him. Hitler used to debate against radical reds in public, and often
violent, discussions that lead to his coming to aquiring fanatical followers. Bush hasn't said more than 10 words in his entire
career that weren't scripted for him, and seriously doubt any of his "followers" would hang for him.
And "exhaustive analysis"? BWAHAHAHAA! The commentators are nothing more than talking heads. I've yet to see one
network "anal-cyst" ask anything near to being a probing question of any candidate. Gary Condite ring a bell?
And if analcysts are SO probing, why didn't any of the boffens ask why monica kept the spunk stained dress, rather than
washing it like any decent whore would? Could it be....SHE'S A CLEVER WHORE?! Never heard that brought up. Immediately
came (no pun intended) to my mind that she may have been a sexpionage agent for a foreign government (you know monica
is a jew, right), intended to discredit the nations leadership by a scandal, or at least distract the public with a trival circus show,
while an event of REAL importance was being overlooked.
Even if one did ask "probing" questions of AH, AH would easily deflect it and turn it around onto the analcyst, making him look
like a fool for asking it in the first place. Any decent politican can do that, let alone a master of political manipulation like AH.
Any Sunday preacher worth his salt, can do the same for an hour, albeit on totally different premises.
An hour, with maybe a few hundred...not years with tens of millions.
That's like equating the nut on a soapbox in the park with Christ or Buddha, or the boss of the local fast-food joint with the
President of the US. Uh, on second thought, disregard that last example.
Many orders of magnitude, in skill/self-promotion/success, seperate the two.
Hitler wasn't a great artist, but he was a great architect. If the professors in vienna couldn't recognize talent when they saw it,
oh well, their loss. And what better revenge on snobbish art kikes than to return with an army to take all the things they said
your art was unworthy of hanging with?
Does turning a nation into a global superpower make one a loser? Hmmm...I guess we'd have to include Alexander the Great,
Hannibal, Napolean, Cesear, and many other such "losers" to the same list as Hitler. :D All of them were betrayed,
assassinated, or defeated/exiled, so that's the typical end of a great conquerer, nothing to be ashamed of.
As regards the "Hollow Cost", it wasn't a program of extermination. It was working the lazy vermin to exhaustion, while not
feeding them real food that was better used to feed Aryans, that killed them. The furnances were needed to dispose of the
corpses, since burial was too time consuming and polluted local water tables. Nothing too unusual about exhausted, half-
starved, and half-frozen people dying of natural causes, is there? Much different than malevolent intent of stuffing them alive
into furnaces or gassing them with Zyklon B.
Did 6 million jews die in the camps? Probably not. But if they did, so what? Not enough, I say. Many more non-jews died than
jews, but you never hear about that, because the Jews have raised victimhood, and the promotion of such status, to a fine art.
"Oi, vey! I'm a victim! My ancestors died in zee camps! You owe me, Aryan!"
Seems the niggers have learned from their fellow garbage:
"Yo, man! I'm a victim! My ancestors died in the fields! You owe me, honky!" :rolleyes:
Is Hitlers search for the truth, as regards the Grail and such, mean he was a nut? Does belief in a omipresent and omnipotent
supreme being who's never made himself visible to you (or me) make you a nut? As a self-stated christian, your belief in
christ and god would automatically include the grail as part of that belief system. Must mean YOU'RE A NUT TOO!
O h a n d d o you put Christ in parallel with Hitler to offend or shock? I mean you can t be serio us, as this would put you firmly in
the category hig hly delusional
Christ was a Jew too or did that change in some way when he amassed disciples and follower?
Read the whole thread again, please, before commenting on the above. I used the christ parable as a construct to explain the
Nazi belief system in more understandable terms that YOU obviously did NOT understand.
You'd also see I already stated that Christ wasn't a jew because he was The Son of God. How can a supreme being, creator of
the universe and everything in it, be reduced to something as simple as simple as a "jew"?
When scientists eventually construct an artifical womb (like they're working on), would that make any children removed from
the vat the offspring of a pepsi bottle? Or perhaps a buick? Because the womb would have plastic and metal in it, so therefore
the offspring must be of the same stock, right?
If I injected cancer cells so that a tumor grew in your wifes womb, would it have fetal rights, and thus couldn't be removed
because it'd be "murder"? Yet children ARE tumors that grow in the womb, taking nutrients from the host body and growing
within a host that's trying to reject it.
Saying that a lifeform that was implanted into a carrier is an offspring of that carrier is absurd. If human babies could be
implanted and born from animal hosts, would that make them cattle too, suitable for slaughtering and eating?
So saying that the Divine son of GOD, the creation of a omnipotent being, the creator of the Universe, the King of kings, and
Lord of lords is somehow also partially or fully derived from the jew body into which he was implanted is just so retarded a
thought as to render any further contemplation of your opinion on the matter would be an exercise in arguing with the
retarded.
That whole "Hitler Suicide" thing....I should remind you that no one has proven to have found Hitlers body to this day. There
was a burned body that might have been Hitler, but there were many body doubles for AH, and it's entirely probable that he
had escaped months previously via U-boat to south america, just like many other nazis did, like Mengela (SP?) did.
With germany surrendering, Americans sick of years of war and still having to deal with the jap, and the soviets grabbing up
countries like crazy, who'd want to be the one to tell the world that Hitler escaped and we didn't know where he was? We
needed to stop the Red Menance, not worry about the defeated Nazi regime.
Given how he was dying anyways, it was better for all concerned to let him die in exile in the jungles of brazil, out of sight/out
of mind, than to face massive humiliation for letting him get away in the first place.
Prove me wrong! Ahhh, you can't, because they've never been able to prove that Hitler DID die in the bunker.
"OH, but they heard the shot and saw his dead body!"
Would these be the same people who never renounced their Nazi beliefs, even decades later after the war was over? Some of
the same people who went to the gallows shouting "Heil Hitler!"? Or the SS bodyguards who were sworn unto death to be loyal
ONLY to the Fuhrer and died defending his Reich?
Might these same people have kept a BIG secret, like Hitler escaped Berlin alive? Believe it or not, there ARE people in the
world who can take secrets to their grave and not sell them to tabloids. Just because YOU don't anyone like that doesn't mean
there might not have been a whole bunker full of them in Berlin in 1945.
And while the Jews are inferior, they are not stupid. I don't recall ever having called the kikes stupid. Inferior vermin, yes.
Stupid, no. All the more reason why they need exterminating. Smart vermin are dangerous vermin. More so than stupid
vermin.
Ragheads are equally worthy of extermination, but they're not the real threat, as they're obviously foreign and easily spotted,
as well as tied down by a religion that relegates them to perpetual sheep-herder status.
It's the insidious invasion of the enemy within (Jews) that needs purging. The nigs, gooks, beaners, and towelheads are all
obviously non-white, but the Jews have somehow managed to insinuate themselves as being accepted as white by most, since
not all of them are the sterotypical curly-locked and hooked nose kike that is most often stereotyped. There are plenty of
blonde haired, blue eyed jews running about, the result of their co-mingling with whites.
BUT THEY ARE NOT ARYAN!
That's why they need to be purged first. To remove the insidious viral infection of Jew influence on Aryan culture. Once they
are gone, the rest will follow in short order.
As for your belief that we are all "human", did you know that there were "humans" in the region of australia/new guinea (SP?)
that were incapable of breeding with the white settlers who raped them? How is it that they could be fucked and fucked, yet not
get pregnant?
Native birth control?
No.
They were too reverted along the ancestoral tree to be breedable with humans, practically proto-human, much like the
australian aborigines are barely human. Just like you could fuck an ape or chimpanzee and not get it pregant, though you'd
likely get your head torn off before you could get that friendly with it. ;)
NBK2000, you probably hate my guts after all this.
Hardly. On the scale of annoyances, you rate less than 1 out of 10. You're just another half-assed racist without the 'nads to
make a stand on it, rather being an apologist and virtual race-traitor in your desire to prove how "wrong" racism is in a futile
effort to be accepted by the very things you purport to hate.
For every thing you say about "hating niggers", you counterpoint it with something postive about the fuckers. So you are
neither hot, nor cold, but lukewarm, thus you are spat out.
I, on the other hand, am consistant. I have always been against muds and race mixing, from the very first post I've made
here, and that will likely never change. I didn't say "will never change", 'cause no one knows what the future holds for them,
but I don't think it very likely to happen that I'll find love in a shiska's arms anytime soon.
I didn't ban him...yet. Just a warning. Let's see if he takes it.
Also, use the QUOTE function, not ----------, for quoting people.
Bert January 27th, 2004, 05:48 PM

SYLLABICATION: shiksa
PRONUNCIATION: shks
VARIANT FORMS: also shikse
NOUN: Offensive Used as a disparaging term for a non-Jewish girl or woman.
ETYMOLOGY: Yiddish shikse, feminine of shegetz, shegetz. See shegetz.

That whole "Hitler Suicide" thing....I should remind you that no one has proven to have found Hitlers body to this day. There
was a burned body that might have been Hitler, but there were many body doubles for AH, and it's entirely probable that he
had escaped months previously via U-boat to south america, just like many other nazis did, like Mengela (SP?) did.
To this day, it's still not clear if Napoleon was murdered or not.
I fear the same thing might be true for Hitler. I'm having a hard time figuring out what Hitler would really do:
a) Run and live.

b) Stand and die.
B) Seems more likely, as he was convinced that somehow the german army would turn the tide and stop the red army.
Ofcourse, if they burned his body, it might just be for the very purpose of installing the seed of doubt...
The Nazi's kicked ass at propaganda...
EDIT: I don't agree with most of the Nazi agenda. However, the jews cannot use the concentration camps as an excuse to do
the very same thing to the Palestinians. THEY should know better.
IMHO, Sharon is as bad as Hitler, if not worse, for not hearing the lesson of history.
A leader that ignores history is a soon to be dead one.
The Anarch January 28th, 2004, 03:07 AM

Amen, Vulture. As Anal Cunt put it, Jews today are "hogging up the holocaust." The Palestinians are treated like shit, and it's
allowed to go on only because there are more Jews than Muslims in America. Therefore the politicians that support israel get
more votes.
nesler January 28th, 2004, 03:44 AM

Sharon is a bad, bad man to say the least.
Known to be guilty of many human rights violations. That's why I spend a lot of my time rooting for Hamas, hoping they'll put
a bullet in his head, and someone who isn't such an asshole will be put into power.
nbk2000 January 28th, 2004, 05:35 PM

SEE! It just goes to show how pervasive the jew influence is in america, when even NBK comes to confuse a jew term of
disparagment against non-jews as being a jew disparagement!
Oi!

Just don't change the thread name to schvartzer manual.
snuk5 February 14th, 2004, 04:55 AM

NBK2000 , my dear cha p I think well sim ply have to dis agree on a whole lot of thin gs reg arding Mr. Hitler and I m un able to
address all your points for reasons of space and time.
You seem to be hell-bent on edifying some evil crazy scumbag who came to the German nation when they were at an all time
low. Your deeper-seated motives for this may be a subject for analysis.
Suffice to say that I am convinced that you simply have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the utter horror
that was Hitler s regime. It is clear that you have some ne ed for a romanticized version of A Hitler s d oings as this suits your
disagreement with today s society and likely yo ur own p osition the rein. (Your deluded reference to your S p a n nungs b o g e n
may point to that)
As I said, I ca nt stand the local n ig-nogs, nor can I stand many of the black characters that you ha ve roa ming around in your
country, but I wouldn t dream of aspirations to live under the rule of Attila the Hun, Mao, Stalin or Hitler!
The fact that Hitler actually did inspire the Germans to achieve some great feats in the earlier parts of his regime, in terms of
science and technolog y, as well as in military asp ects, does not say so mu ch for the character of Hitler but rather for the
Germans themselves. In fact Hitler was not even a German, didn t lo ok like a true Aryan and may have had some Je wish
blood!
Hitler tricked the German nation; he hoodwinked them with improbable promises and terrorized all who opposed him. He
needed a brutal policing apparatus to maintain his reign. He abused the hardworking and orderly manner in which the German
follows instructions, without being so bold as to question orders.
At the end of the war the whole of Germany lay flat on it s b ack. It s cities, infrastructure and industry in ru ins. It s p eople
demoralized in the realization of the terrible things they had done. Their country split into two by the vanquishing powers.
They were forced to pay a huge war debt.
And in a mere few decades they rebuilt and reinvented themselves. They became the greatest economy of Europe.
THEY WERE AND ARE A FANTASTIC NATION! (See how far Hitler would have gotten in Africa ;)
The Germans are an admirable people but not because of having allowed a loon and a loser, to rise to power at some time in
their history; rather despite that fact.
If Hitler really were a great man as you wish to believe, he would have left out some of the more inhumane and evil shit out
of his policies and p icked ou t some better lieutenants not fat cross dressing co ke-heads lik e Goerin g, or utter loon s like
Hess. (The list is en dles s having seriou s personal flaws seemed to b e almost a p rerequisite to make it am ongst Hitler s
nearest and dearest. There were excellent men under his staff, especially amongst his generals. Rommel was a genius as well
a thoroughly decent man.)
If Hitler really were a great man, he would have made the Germans lasted as long as say, the Roman Empire, upon which he
was ins pired to call his o wn the T hird Empire .
Sorry to put it to you: Hitler was a loser. He talked very well, but he was an evil loser and that s h ow history rememb ers him.
Any notio n that der Fuehrer might be waitin g, pickled in liquid nitrogen, to be thawed out some time in the fu ture is plainly
lau ghable. I mean to say that something is "not strictly impossible" do es not mean that one can reasonably expre ss o ne s
expectations that it may happen!
The premises as taken by you would presume:
--That Hitler was frozen in the first place. And that he allowed this to be done whilst he was still alive (unconscious), or
immediately after his death. The Nazis had a nice little method of torture (or e x p e rimental technique if you will) to lay
subjects (i.e. hum an beings) in ice (or ice / salt) water. After a while they beg ged to b e killed. Somehow I don t think that
Adolph would have liked to be subjected to cold baths!
A bullet would be more his style. He knew he was beaten; the Russians were banging on the doors of his bunker. He had
become visibly utterly depressed in the latest stages of the war as ca n be s een from footage. This was a far, far cry from
Hitler victorious in Paris. He had just killed his girlfriend sorry wife. In a final act of kin d n e s s , he had recently married Eva
s o m e h o n e ymoon ;) .
He had Germany bombed into ruins; in his last act of desperation, he had eleven-year-old boys walking around with
Panzerfaust grenades -to blow up Russian tanks.
Some kind of stra tegy not to mention morality.
Dreams of the thousand year Reich, -o r immortality- were hardly applicable in the final stage of his life, I d s ay.
--Your idea would also presume that he was frozen in such a way that his cells and tissue remained undestroyed in the
process somethin g that to day is still a major problem in cryogen ic tis sue preservation where it concerns large r masses.
-- That in particular his brain (probably splattered all over the place by his bullet) was preserved intact, and remained in a
sta te that would b e capable to reta in the personality and thoughts of A Hitler a vegetable in a wheelchair wo uld be not worth
the while)
--That through the many, many decades that he was frozen, his loyal servants and their successors would keep the liquid N2
faithfully topped up. I mean: to come so far and then to have a busted gearbox with the liquid boiling away in the bed of
o n e s truck, or a rat that gnawed th rough th e tubes of Mr Hitler s cold coffin , -that wou ld be sad ;)
--That this could be all done in secret over all this time. It seems to me the plot for a very weak video circuit movie.
To call me a lud dite and to imp ly th at you are somehow a visionary because you choos e to anticipate a return of Hitler and I
d o n t, has remo ved a good chun k of your credibility.
According to the nature of Brownian motion, it is statistically, theoretically possible that suddenly there will be a dearth of air
molecules above my keyboard in comparison to underneath. The pressure differential should cause my keyboard to
rissssssssssseeeeeeeee.
Guess what; it actually happened!!!
But you would not believe th at, wouldn t you now?
By the bye, I must confess to being not clear in my previous comment. In my haste to qualify myself as having no Jewish
connection or agenda, I stated my Christian antecedents. But even as I was brought up strictly Catholic, I did not buy their
sto ry ever since I was in my early teens. Even tho ugh, I suppose that the indoctrination has done it s work to some extent as
I still take exception to others bashing Christianity. To me that is somehow a no-go area. Perhaps also because I recognize
the merits of organized religion -in society and for the individual. I often wish I could believe in anything of that stuff!
Further it is my observation that those who oppose my own values especially in the left-wing political arena, are often
commu nist (trained as here in Africa) or Muslim. (As bo th you r black Muslims, and the dispropo rtionally over represe nted
Muslims in government here. Not to mention those crazy Muslim bastards who use good explosives to blow up women and
children and expect to go to heaven and receive 72 virgins for their trouble. Question: How do you recognize a Muslim
suicide bomber? Check out his crotch if h e s g ot a hard-on, he s a bout to blow all thos e luvly virgins!)
I digress, so to me Christ is but a historical figure; someone who must have been quite a character and definitely a Jew. Sorry
about that, I did not want to mislead you there!
Anyway talkin g about the Jews . Im glad that you d on t outright deny the existence of the holocaust, but the spin that it was
all an effort to make them work is in fact even more crazy.
The Ge rmans being a well-organized n ation, they surely did nt get much work out of a ll those Jews! Either you want to work
them and get usefull results or you want to kill as many as you want. To try and achieve both would seem to be counter
productive to say the least! Not to mention unfair labor practice ;)
There is an abundance of evidence that Hitler and his bunch of thugs did in fact orchestrate the extermination of millions of
Jews.
To go and deny this is foolhardy and stupid. You gloat about the miserable and undignified death of millions of babies,
toddlers, once young and spirited girls and boys, teenagers, mothers, housefathers, learned doctors, brilliant authors, scientist
the list is unending -that makes you seem inhumane and emotionally deprived.
It makes me re-examine my own contempt and dislike for the Negroes. After all they are stupid, but that is something they
can t help. And they a re criminally pred ispo sed but should one not feel sorry for them? Should I de spise a ba boon be ca u s e
he can t do integra l calculus? I don t think he should govern, but if by some ill-conceived democratic system other baboons
put a big baboon in power should I not accept that?
Naaaah, I had you going for a second, you may regard me as some half-hearted would-be right winger, whereas others have
decried me as some racist ogre.
I actually m ust be some where in the m iddle and this realization hugely reinforces my convictions thank you :)
Nesler, a bout the postwhoring thing
Hmm, I do in part agree that too many post in sequence make for bad form. It makes it somewhat overbearing. But I also
read that the major objection was that some guys like to build up their total number of post for status purposes.
As in Post 1 Jeste rday I m ade nitro and it went real cool.

Post 2 Today I am gonna let it go off in my auntz chicken pen and run for hell.
Post 3 Howzit, my nitro did not explode becuz it was not made with acid but with bleach
That would co nstitute postwhoring insofar a s that it sa id nothing and looked to have the objective to increase one s p ost-
score.
Allow me to say in my defense that the term is not qu ite applicable where it concern s my triple pos ting; s ee if I m wrong:
-Posting in the wa tercooler does not allow for adding points, so pray tell, how could this whoring be in any way lucrative to
me?
-Anybody with half a brain can see that I have quite a bit to say about the subject matter and if I fail (in my passion) to put all
my thoughts in one single, exorbitantly long post, but find it necessary to add to previous post on revisiting the page, this
does hardly constitute postwhoring.
-My current post is a good point in case: I want to address two disparate issues, to two different persons.
Also this is already a long post.

So now I am coerced to put the two stories in one single post.
It tends to lose clarity and readability.
All in all I find this preoccupation with postwhoring going a bit overboard in this case.
Postwhoring is done for personal gain.
I clearly do it for the fun of it.
I m no t a post-whore, I m ust be a pos t-slut LO L!
T_Pyro February 14th, 2004, 10:34 AM

Hmm... Some interesting events seem to have happened in this thread since I last viewed it!
All along this thread, one thing seems to have been made quite, quite clear. Everyone of us (including me) has their own hard
and fast ideas on the topic, which they're willing to justify at all costs. The argument of what's "right" and what's "wrong" is
hardly going to work- you DO realise that there is nothing that is an absolute "right" or an absolute "wrong"!
For example, NBK, you claim that "there's something fundamentally wrong" with a race that worships rats and cows. I have to
point out that the members of the same "race" would find something "fundamentally wrong" with such person/persons who
believe that "Kids make great targets because of the emotional impact of seeing little kids getting their limbs blown off." So,
who is "fundamentally wrong", then? Everyone? No one? Or only one race because the other race deems that it, itself is
"superior"?
I'm not saying that you're wrong, or I'm wrong, or you're right, or I'm right, as such a move would be a contradiction to the
above fact. I'm saying that no matter how fool-proof, or absurdly obvious an idea may seem to one, there is bound to be yet
another angle of looking at the same problem, and each is entitled to their own views. Claiming, however, that the other is
"wrong", is unjust.
Also, everyone is so convinced that their own views are correct, they obviously aren't willing to accept the views of others.
Arguing over the topic is bound to get nowhere- neither side can be expected to say, after reading a post, "Hey! you're
absolutely right! I agree with you now!" I mean, we've all spent considerable time forming our arguments and presenting them
to others. So can someone be expected to suddenly change their views in the blinking of an eye? Fat chance. Quote: "The
more you try to refute me, the more you prove me right with your own logic." There you go. Besides, I'm always right.
:rolleyes:
What I'm curious to know is, how exactly are our views affecting the way we interact with people in real life? Supposing, for
example, you walked into your workplace tomorrow, and found a member of a "race" which you consider to be inferior, has
become your new co-worker, or worse still, your boss? What would be your reaction:
a) One of indifference. So? you got a new co-worker. Well, let him do his job, and I'll do mine.
b) As long as he does things OK, it's fine with me, but if he makes even the smallest error...
c) I dare him to cross my path.
d) What's the company coming to nowadays? I'm quitting right now.
e) I'll write to the boss, my buddy, to get him fired ASAP.
f) Hmmm... Let's see now, how can he be framed for the murder of...
g) Where's my shotgun? I think I'll pay a "welcome visit" to him tonight.
As for my choice, even if I ended up wasting time wondering about the "inferiority" of the race of the co-worker, my reaction
would be a).
Sidenote to snuk5: Your last post does not seem to have lost any clarity or readability. If you insist on separating your ideas,
you could use a sub-heading in bold, like you did this time. The "edit" feature would have been useful, too. And as for long
posts, you need not worry about it: we're quite used to long posts here.
nbk2000 February 15th, 2004, 03:20 PM

...Hitler was an evil loser...
who's done far greater things, much bolder things, and far more remarkable things than anyone here has done.
In a thousand years, they'll still be talking about the "loser", Adolph Hitler, which is 999.9 years longer than anyone will
remember you after you've turned to worm shit (or ash) and been forgotten about.
"Evil" is an meaningless label. The cat is evil to the bird, the bird is evil to the worm. Any side you are on automatically makes
the other side "evil", so it's purely subjective.
As an Aryan, Hitler is "Good" to me.
To a mud, Hitler is "Evil".
As Hitler is "Evil" to you, and since you hate what is "Good' to me, that makes you an "Evil" self-loathing, mud-loving, race-
traitor caucasian in my eyes.
The only absolute in this world is that Aryans are superior, all others inferior.
To dare great feats and to fail at them is nothing shameful, unlike the countless sheep who blindly follow the path set for
them from cradle to grave, with nary a glance past the ass of the sheep in front of them.
If AH dared great things, and was defeated in the end only after the greatest war ever in the history of man, who's the loser?
He could have followed the safe course, staying a streetsweeper his whole life, and the world would be a much poorer place for
it.
The Nazis had a nice little method of torture (or experimental technique if you will) to lay subjects (i.e. human beings) in ice
(or ice / salt) water.
Would these be the experiments conducted by the scientist Joseph Mengella at the racial purification plants?
While modern scientists like to distance themselves from Nazi research that a lot of them base their own work upon, the fact is
that Mengella and others were decades ahead of the rest of the world in many fields of science, simply because they were:
A) Brillant to begin with.
And
B) Had a huge amount of "research material" (AKA untermensch) on which to experiment upon.
Testing on humans directly nullifies all the problems inherent with animal tests and simulations, namely that humans are
neither monkeys/horses/goats nor algorithms, thus results in one are not transferable to another.
Testing on humans gives you immediate APPLICABLE results on what the results are on humans. You can test on animals for
years, think everything is fine, and find out that the stuff has a completely different reaction in humans.
Thalidomide is one such example. Preganant monkeys and rats, no problem. Pregnant humans, flipper limbed retards.
Why did the Nazis do so much testing on the effects of cold in the camps? Thousands and thousands of tests? Cold water
survival for Nazi pilots? Proabably.
But could it not have also been for testing of cryogenic techniques, which they knew the possibilities of even back then? Would
not a megalomanical psychopath like Hitler, who talked of a "Thousand Year Reich", not be interested in LIVING 1,000 years?
And, of course, ruling for 1,000 years? Would that not fit the mentality of such a man?
I'm a psychopath, I'm planning on living forever after being thawed out, and wouldn't mind having an empire to rule for the
entire time.
If I could imagine it, surely someone who already HAS an empire, and who HAS the technical capacity, the fanatical followers,
the financial resources (just think the gold teeth from the Jews! :p), etc. could do it.
And maybe he didn't even volunteer for it. Maybe his followers decided that he was too valuable to the Aryan race to allow to
suicide, so they forced him into the freezer, despite his orders to the contrary, for the greater good. It wouldn't be the first
time someones followers have defied their leader to serve their own purposes.
Hell, for all we know, it did happen. And it could even be that the jews have AH's frozen body sitting in a cave in Israel, after
having captured it from the cave in Brazil where the O.G. Nazis had him, and are awaiting the day when they can revive him to
put him on trial for "crimes against humanity". Wouldn't that a story! :)
As long as there was a functional brain, capable of thinking, then it wouldn't matter if all of his original memories and
personality were missing. Any honest psychologist will tell you that Skinner techniques can program a blank mind (like a child)
to behave and think in any way you want it to, as long as you're willing to do whatever it takes, which I'd safely assume Nazis
capable of.
Also, I said that it's POSSIBLE, not PROBABLE, that AH was frozen. Delusional people usally can't tell the difference between
the two, which is why you couldn't? It's possible there's intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but it's not probable that
they're snatching up people from trailerparks to subject them to rectal probes. :eek:
To call me a luddite and to imply that you are somehow a visionary because you choose to anticipate a return of Hitler and
I dont, has removed a good chunk of your credibility.
Typical newbie mistake...thinking they can improperly quote me...tsk, tsk, tsk.
To quote me properly on this, you'd have to quote this:
I am totally serious in my belief of possible re-animation after death, mediated by cyrogenic preservation until such time as
technology allows it. To say it is "IMPOSSIBLE!" is to give the rallying cry of the luddite, stuck in the past, and not the visonary
looking towards the future.
Where did I say that say that denying the possibility of HITLER's resurection was luddite? I was talking about cyrogenic
resurection, in general, and said that "I am totally serious in my belief of possible re-animation after death, mediated by
cyrogenic preservation until such time as technology allows it.".
Your inability to properly quote someone, as well as your insistance on making things up, is just sloppiness on your part.
You gloat about the miserable and undignified death of millions of...(untermesnch)...that makes you seem inhumane and
emotionally deprived.
Such is the nature of the psychopathic personality. The only person I give a fuck about is myself, and if you're not part of my
solution, then you are the problem. And that would be a fitting description of the leadership of the Reich.
Men who didn't care about anyone, with no emotions or conscienceness to prevent them from doing what needed to be done.
These Men amoung lesser men lead their nation to greatness...an ARYAN nation.
Like you said, AH wouldn't have been able to do what he did with africa, because niggers are inately stupid and inferior. A
continent of lazy niggers couldn't equal a small city of whites in anything, though they'd certainly beat us whites out of "most
crime", "most monkey raping", "most AIDS", and many other things that whites would rather be last in.
As a example from my own life, last night, about 20 minutes before the store was due to close for the night, a couple of
niggers walked into the store and looked around for not even two minutes before walking back outside to their car right
outside the door, with the motor running.
The Manager thought I was being paranoid and "rather racist for thinking that two black men must mean a robbery". Well,
after them sitting there for 5 minutes, I called the cops anyways, fuck the manager, 'cause I recognize wolves (even nigger
wolves) when I see them.
Cops rolled up on them, shotguns drawn (all cops in this town are red-neck white boys!), and gaffled up the nigs from their
car. After tossing it up, what did they find? Yep, you guessed it, guns and masks.
Took their little black asses to jail. :D
I listened to my intuition (RTPB), and sic'd the cops on the nigs, like the blue attack dogs they are.
I know not every crim has the guidance of the RTPB's (;)) but COME ON! They couldn't have drawn any more attention to
themselves if they'd shot a flare in the air while waving an airhorn around! Or at least to my eyes they couldn't.
Manager looked shocked that I called the cops after he wouldn't. Dumb ass.
Gee, who'd have ever guessed two niggers sitting in a car 10 minutes before closing on one of the busiest days of the year,
after walking inside for only two minutes, could POSSIBLY be thinking of robbing the place? :rolleyes:
I won't go into how I'd do it, because that's beside the point, the point being that niggers are stupid from everything that I've
observed them to do. If I ever saw an intelligent nigger, I'd probably die of shock on the spot, my heart being unable to
withstand such an unnatural sight. It'd be akin to the sky parting open as a giant hand reached down out of the sky to pick
me up and lift me into the heavens. In other words, extremely unlikely, though not impossible.
As regards Post Whoring, the only people who's judgement matters on this subject is the staff. If you are deemed to be Post
Whoring, all the justifications you can think of won't save you, 'cause you're gone.
However, while my leniency is highly variable, some things just get to be annoying. Things like people who's sole purpose here
seems to be to argue with me.
If you can't contribute as least SOMETHING E&W related ONCE in a while, and not just "NBK is a horrible racist who's wrong
because I don't agree with him!" posts, no matter how fun it may be to tear your poorly formed arguments apart, then there's
no reason to let you keep coming here, now is there?
OH! NBK IS GOING TO BAN ME FOR EXPOSING THE TRUTH BECAUSE HE KNOWS I'M RIGHT!
Is this your next reply?
*YAWN*.....how tedious.
Arkangel and Vulture both argue with me on this same subject, yet they're still here? Why? Because they actually CONTRIBUTE
something on occassion that is relevant to the Forum.
The Forum is a National Socialist Merit-based Autocracy. (say that fast five times!)
Since people who feel they need to break up their posts into single paragraph postings in order for others to understand them,
lest they get as easily confused as the poster, who's incapable of keeping track of more than one thought per paragraph/post,
might get confused by a long explaination, I've decided to make it simple for you:
We have a policy that is ruthlessly enforced for the greater good of the whole, not the individual.
People who contribute, and aren't "worthless lives", get recognized.
Those that are worthless, get euthanized.
And, what the Fuhrer (admin) says, goes! We don't take a fuckin' vote.
vulture February 15th, 2004, 08:32 PM

Talking about sheeple, how many forum members would simply agree with you, NBK, because:
a) It looks more though than caring about people getting killed

b) Crawling up the admins ass and dying there is a good method to stay alive here.
Atleast, that's what they might think.
That's what annoys me the most, people who'd just go along with you to be part of the flow.
Anyways, if you're trying to convince NBK he's wrong, forget it. The chance of you winning the lottery and getting fucked by
Heidi Klum the same day is higher.
That said, I don't think anyone could convince me I'm wrong... :D

NBK2000, Congratulations on stopping that armed robbery ! It happened
to me in 1996 working as an assistant manager in a pizza shop. I wish
the cops here would adopt the attitude you described. They're more
concerned about being sued for violating the civil rights of so-called
"minorities" than about enforcing laws against violent crime. As for your
boss, I hope he's learned a lesson from this experience.
As for getting banned, that person needs to re-read(or READ) the rules,
both the written and unwritten rules. They exist for the good of the
community. Or as my junior year history teacher once said: This is not
a democracy, it's a benevolent dictatorship !
Trying to change a person's deeply held position ? Forget it !

I would like to win the lottery though !
tmp February 17th, 2004, 03:44 AM

Speaking of useless cops, I got pulled over at 3:00 AM yesterday morning
on my way home from work. It was for a burned out tag light !
This state is #1 for armed robbery. The NAACP is headquartered here.
It seems the asshole cops are more interested in harassing people for
trivial shit instead of locking up the felons who cause most of the
problems. FUCK THE STATE OF MARYLAND !
Arkangel February 17th, 2004, 04:23 PM

I know quite a few intelligent "Niggers" NBK, so it's a shame I can't hook you up with them ;)
Seriously, less than 7% of the UK's population is non-caucasian. People who live near ethnic populations have a totally skewed
perspective, as there are concentrations in certain places. I certainly know some dumb "niggers", but by proportion, I know a
FUCK load more dumb caucasians. Maybe it's the circles I move in :p
And another interesting point, iirc the best performing social group at schools in the UK are Indian girls (by quite a margin):
Statistics from Birmingham: In 2001 the following statistics were recorded in Birmingham for pupils achieving five or more
GCSE passes at grades A*-C.
17% - black boys 34% - black girls
27% - Bangladeshi boys 50% - Bangladeshi girls
31% - Pakistani boys 42% - Pakistani girls
39% - white boys 50% - white girls
49% - Indian boys 65% - Indian girls
35% - average for boys 48% - average for girls
Since you'd label them as muds, how do you account for that? I mean, familial circumstances make a difference, and the girls
aren't hanging around in gangs, but if they are genetically inferior, how come they do so much better than all the other
groups? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me this makes your argument a crock of shit......
What a surprise :rolleyes:
megalomania February 17th, 2004, 05:05 PM

My my, nothing like one isolated set of statistics to completly invalidate an entire theory...

It's really not that isolated and in any case, there's plenty out there to invalidate the theory, same as there are arguments
FOR the theory.
And your cursory dismissal doesn't counter the point I was making. If Mud (Indian) kids are CAPABLE of beating white kids,
why are they inferior?#
I could probably argue that the Indian kids have a better home life, more supportive families etc, but then why is that the
case? Isn't that just the same as all the social factors that you and NBK so readily dismiss when arguing the case for genetic
inferiority?
NightStalker February 18th, 2004, 02:59 AM

Your "statistic" is worthless!
Without knowing the NUMBER sampled, a PERCENTAGE is meaningless.
If only 700 mud children are in the school system, compared to 10,000 whites (less than 7%, according to you), and the
indian children have just one more bright kid amoung them than the statistical norm would dictate, then the average will be
much more heavily skewed towards "intelligence" than is really there.
ONLY for a similiar number of data samples would averaging have any relevance.
I could skew the "average" to be anything I want it to be by having unequal sampling.
If I had three mud kids, two of average intelligence and one of superior, then I'd have an "average" of 33% being of superior
intelligence. Compare that with 9,900 average whites with 100 geniuses, and you'd only have an "average" of 1% being of
superior intelligence.
To be relevant you'd have to compare 10,000 indian kids with an equal number of white kids, both of equal socio-economic
status (no fair comparing slum dwellers with upper-class) and geopolitical origin, and I think you'd be dissappointed in the
results (since you hate whites so much [are YOU white?]), since they'd show the inate superiority of the whites.
Also, passing grades has nothing to do with intellect. It has to do with studying the course material, learning the material by
rote, and being able to mentally regurgitate it when needed for the test.
It has nothing to do with being able to construct abstract relations between disparate data to synthesize new data, visualizing
concepts, learning how something works besides knowing the fact that it does, and all the rest of it.
Apes have been trained to "speak" with sign language. Does that mean that it could one day write poetry, or a novel, simply
because it has the tool of language at its disposal?
No.
Because it is incapable of grasping the more subtle vagaries and nuances of language that differentiate between "ME WANT
BANANA" and "To be, or not to be, that is the question". Both are technically english, but they are lightyears apart.
So too is inate intellegence for a racial group. Both may have the tool of language, but one group has the intellegence to use
that tool to get to the moon, the other wasn't even able to devise the wheel.
If indian kids are better at regurgitating what is required to pass a test, but don't have the intelligence to create anything new
with it, than they're going to stagnate into a third world hellhole...oh, wait...they already are.
Never mind then. :p
T_Pyro February 18th, 2004, 12:17 PM

Ok, so we have a statistical analysis. NightStalker, allow me to point out the flaw in your mathematical hypothesis. Your claim
is that without mentioning the sampling number, there's bound to be a large disparity due to "stray" factors. In your haste to
discount the data, you forgot to analyse it closesly. Look closely at the data. The discrepancy that you're talking about can
easily be found out by seeking out the HCF of the percentages given, and 100. In your example, for instance, the % is 33.33,
so the HCF is 33.33, and the minimum sample number required for such a value is 100/33.33 = 3 (which, incidentally is the
exact value). This indicates that the number of samples taken must be an integral multile of 3. Now, let's apply the same
analysis for the given data:
HCF (Highest common factor) for given %age and 100:
%, HCF, min. sample no.

17, 1, 100
34, 2, 50
27, 1, 100
50, 50, 2
31, 1, 100
42, 2, 50
39, 1, 100
50, 50, 2
49, 1, 100
35, 5, 20
48, 4, 25
Notice something? Only in the case of "white girls" and "bangladeshi girls" does the minimum sample number drop down to an
unusually low value of 2. For all the rest of the data, the minimum sample numbers are large enough to overshadow any
considerable deviations from the mean.
The foregoing proof does not indicate that the given statistic is indeed cent percent accurate. Provided that the agency that
conducted the survey conducted it in a fair manner, it just indicates that the results cannot be too far from the actual values,
and hence cannot be just dismissed like that.
Anthony February 18th, 2004, 02:35 PM

But there is a greater disparity between boys and girls, than white and non-white. Obviously women aren't on average
significantly more intelligent than men, so are these statistics a reliable measure of intelligence?
Asian kids usually do better at school because their fathers beat them into good grades :) How else will they run that petrol
station or KFC, and drive round in a Merc?

Years ago there was a statistician who went on the CBS show 60 Minutes.
He claimed that blacks and Hispanics scored lower than whites on aptitude
tests. He also claimed that whites scored lower than Asians on these same
tests. Obviously, he pissed off every group except of course the Asians.
Blacks and Hispanics called him a racist. Some conservative white groups
called him a race traitor. Sometimes you can't win.
Maybe it has something to do with the expression:
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
All in all, if you put aside true mental retardation, I think a lot of it has to
do with an individual's attitude and what his/her true talent is.

Asian kids usually do better at school because their fathers beat them into good grades :) Who else will they run that petrol
station or KFC, and drive round in a Merc?
Interesting theory. You're kidding, right? If you aren't, I'd be interested to know what the source of this (yet another) myth is!

I think it also comes down to a person will to achieve. You can have a person from a good middle class family background that
is quite intelligent yet they take drugs and party doing almost no work, as a result they fail to graduate from high school and
end up of the street.
On the other hand a person from a low class area, with a broken home and they aren't too smart can work hard and study
hard and leave out the partying and drugs until last. While this person isn't too bright, they still manage to graduate from high
school do an apprenticeship as an electrician and end up quite well off in a nice house in a nice neighborhood.
Intelligence is basically mind over matter. If you want to do well and put the effort in 9/10 you will succeed. If you don't give a
shit then your more likely to fail.
I know this, because I have seen it with co-leagues at school one guy doesn't care and fails someone else tries hard and
passes.
How ever this only works if you can set a realistic goal. You can aim for 90% in Maths but if you have trouble passing it then
maybe aim for 65% and then work your way up.
Spudkilla February 22nd, 2004, 12:21 PM

The nigger manual was gay. And for the rest of you:
http://www.boxofhate.com/imagearchive/images/14.gif
vulture February 29th, 2004, 11:24 AM

Is this racist?
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/ghettodelta.html
+++++++++
Yes, and it's funny as hell too! :D
NBK
Nihilist March 3rd, 2004, 10:52 PM

hehe..quite the thread i've started here.
T_Pyro: What Anthony said about asain kids is 100% true. I know for a fact that asian parents push their children much harder
than caucasian parents do, and for the most part those children perform better in school. Obviously there are exceptions to
this rule, though they are surprisingly few and far between.
Most of the racial differences that exist in the world, are in fact not racial, but cultural. The genetic differences between whites
and blacks are very small, and the differences between "aryans" and jews are so infinitesimal, if they even exist at all, that
they can be considered neglibile. However, culture plays a major role in your overall intelligence, ways of thinking, performance
in school, tendency towards crime, etc.. Statisically most blacks(in the US at least) are poor, and thus they grow up in an
environment where crime is the only way to make any real money.
Fiscally poorer cultures also tend to put less emphasis on education and mental development than on things like going out
and making money to support ones family, which puts great pressure on them to find money as quickly as possible without
working as much(laziness).
Asians on the other hand, are culturally very inclined towards hard work to achieve goals. They also are very conscious of honor
and doing all that they can to please their family's. Thus asians perform well and work hard, whereas blacks do not for the
most part.
Whites are somewhere in the middle of all this, I think that whites in general spend more time with their children in the earlier
stages of development, which in most cases results in a more intelligent person. But whites do not posess the work ethic of
the asians, nor the anti-work ethic of blacks which puts them somewhere in the middle.
However, when raised in different cultures blacks are not lazy or stupid or crime prone, I have seen it with my own eyes. The
same thing with whites and asians, if a caucasian or asian is raised in a trailer park, they are going to be more crime prone
and probably less intelligent.
nbk2000 March 4th, 2004, 03:48 AM

Home Alone
By James J. Heckman
Wall Street Journal January 23, 2004, page A14
Among African Americans, the gender gap in higher education is widening dramatically, with more women than men going to
college. Recent discussions of this important social trend fail to face up to a key source of the problem and prescribe the
wrong solution. Strategies to recruit and retain black men in college are too little too late because the difficulties black men
face can be traced to low achievement at the onset of elementary school.
New research data casts doubt on the usual explanations for enrollment shortfalls, such as poor schools, poverty, low teacher
expectations, excessive school discipline and anticipated discrimination. Young black children lag significantly in school
readiness before traditional school programs and expectations of discrimination could have much effect
Black underachievement, especially among males, is present even in the best schools and is only weakly correlated with
indicators of school quality, such as per-student expenditures, class size or racial composition. Poverty does not explain
observed gaps, which are present for children from all social classes, including the most affluent and educated.
How can these patterns best be explained and how should the problem be addressed? The most important influences on
young children's development are family, home and the immediate social circle. Social scientists have found measurable
differences in the quality of these factors that may account for black-white gaps in skills that affect school and job
performance.
Young black children are exposed to much lower levels of cognitive and emotional stimulation than white children, even in
families with comparable income, education and IQ. They watch more TV, read fewer books, and converse and go on
educational outings with their families less often. They are more likely to be raised in homes without fathers, family mealtimes
or fixed routines.
These disparities lead to big gaps by age three or four (the earliest age at which they can be measured reliably). Programs
such as Head Start and Title 1 can offset these deficiencies somewhat, but most improvements are ephemeral. Some
elementary school programs can alleviate behaviors that impede school and job success, but results are erratic and difficult to
replicate. Like it or not, the most important mental and behavioral patterns, once established, are difficult to change once
children enter school. And programs for deprived children do not address underachieve-ment among the children of the middle
class, who are most likely to go to college.
Because governments have little control over how people behave within families, reform must look to private behavior more
than public policy. Mothers and fathers, and not their surrogates, are in the best position to alter the parenting behavior that
affects the child's environment and development. There is no substitute for cultural change and behavioral reform within the
black community itself. Parents, and the communities to which they belong, must acknowledge that they have a lot of catching
up to do, and accept that only they can do it. They must take a hard look at how children are raised, especially in the early
years, and ask how parenting practices can be improved. This strategy offers the only hope for substantial and enduring
change.
Mr. Heckman, professor of economics at the University of Chicago and the 2000 Nobel Laureate in Economics, is the co-author
of "Inequality in America: What Role for Human Capital Policy" (forthcoming from MIT Press).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In other words, no matter how rich or educated the nigger is, they're still inately stupid because they ignore their own children.
Any race that, as a whole, ignores its future (children), is doomed.
And culture doesn't have a lot to do with inate intelligence, only the expression of its potential.
Asian children have much more familal pressure on them to "succeed" than white children do. So they do all the extra stuff to
make it.
It doesn't mean that they're inately more intelligent, just more likely to express what intelligence they have to their
maximum, compared to most whites who may score slightly lower in tests, but who aren't straining to do so.
To use an analogy:
Asians are Hondas, Whites are Mercedes.
Some Hondas may be able of going 140MPH, after heavy modification, but they'll be whining like a blender on steroids,
shaking and rattling the whole time, before quickly falling apart, because it wasn't built to go that fast.
The Mercedes can also go 140MPH, if not faster, but every mercedes is built to cruise the autobahn at 120MPH all day long, in
total comfort and silence, because they're built to do this.
:D
Also, I have to wonder about people comparing the exceptional asians in the white educational system, to the white students
within them.
Let us compare the average asians in their native educational systems to the average white students in our native educational
systems, and THEN talk about inferior and superior.
Nihilist, put some paragraph breaks in your posts, eh? 12 sentences without a paragraph break equals sloppy thinking/writing.
T_Pyro March 4th, 2004, 01:35 PM

Let us compare the average asians in their native educational systems to the average white students in our native educational
systems, and THEN talk about inferior and superior.
Fair enough. Exactly what parameters and values of the respective "native educational systems" are we going to compare? And
which factors are to be considered to evaluate the average student? I'm no educationist, but I'd include the following:
1. Ability to grasp concepts and principles.
2. Ability to apply them in real life.
3. "Out-of-course" interests.
Further, (assuming such a comparison is undertaken) how are we going to verify the data produced?
Nihilist March 4th, 2004, 10:41 PM

I apolgize for the sloppy posting style, but I had to leave very quickly, and didn't have time to add tabs and such(I know I
should have probably saved it and posted it later, maybe i'll edit it in a minute).
I agree with most of what that article had to say. Though, I wouldn't say that asians are intellectually inferior. To apply your
analogy to what I think:
Both asians and whites are mercedes. Both are made to perform at 120 mph on the autobahn. Asians however, are heavily
modified and strained to their limit, and are cruising at 160 mph, and more likely to have some nervous breakdown later in
life.
In regard to blacks, I think your right that a cultural that doesn't support their children as much is inferior. But does that mean
we should exterminate them all, or that we should try to change their culture? I guess that's for each person to decide on their
own.
nbk2000 March 5th, 2004, 02:29 AM

The "ideas and concepts" thing is subject to opinion. Too many variables.
Mathematics is the only universal language, thus the only thing that is constant regardless of language/culture.
So, I'd say it'd have to be at what earliest age is someone able to grasp basic math principles like addition/multiplication/etc,
how well they can grasp more complex math like algebra, and what percentage is able to go on into arcane math science like
quantum phsyics and such.
Oh, and for the average joe, how well they can retain their math skills through life, in jobs that don't require daily use of them.
This covers all the bases I think, from the mental development of toddlers, to the average student, to the genius class, and
how well the learning is retained in real-life after leaving school.
I'm sure there are some reputable site somewhere that keeps track of these sort of statistics, though it may be difficult, if not
impossible, to find one that sorts it out by race, as such things tend to be "politically uncorrect" to discuss, especially for a
researcher who wishes to continue getting grants.
Flake2m March 5th, 2004, 07:21 AM

It isn't just black boys that are doing worse at school. It is boys in general.
Boys are more likely to fail/drop out of school then girls and on average perform less. Thats why universities and colleges are
now starting to have more girls then boys (this is still good ;-)).
You could help fix this by having specialised learning programs for boys and girls, because as we see from an early age boys
and girls both have different intrests. Barbies dolls for girls and blocks/lego for boys.
The education system (atleast in Oz) is more suited to girls then boys. How do you expect boys to achieve well if the learning
system isn't suited for boys?
T_Pyro March 6th, 2004, 08:28 AM

So, I'd say it'd have to be at what earliest age is someone able to grasp basic math principles like addition/multiplication/etc,
how well they can grasp more complex math like algebra, and what percentage is able to go on into arcane math science like
quantum phsyics and such.
Right. I'm off to find out the case histories of the academic performance of as many students as I can question. For an even
comparison, I'd request others to post their own findings too, regarding those who they are in close contact with. I trust the
findings will be reported *as is*, without any additives, or exclusions to support, or contradict their personal views.
Maths, as stated, is indeed the language of the universe, but so is Physics, I'd say. However, since you say so, we'll
concentrate only on mathematics. Quantum Physics is not a branch of "math science", by the way. It's Physics, though it does
involve a heavy dose of mathematics.
Doubtless, there are countless sites which have carried out similar surveys, but I would suggest that we do not include their
data "a priori" here. As should be evident to all by now, "findings of the in-depth survey so-and-so", and "he said", "she said"
kind of data in this regard is of little worth, as there's no way of validating it. Only first-hand knowledge is acceptable.
Therefore, if you set out to collect data on your own, you'll be compelled to believe the results.
nbk2000:
I see you're absolutely convinced that a certain "race" is inherently superior to all others. Well, let's just take the immediate
topic at hand. Have you conducted a thorough study of the education systems prevalent over the world? If you have, then I'm
sure you could set this topic to rest for once and for all by telling us how you found all the other education systems to be
inferior, and exactly in what respects. If, on the other hand, your ideas are based on other's findings, then what convinced you
that such findings were exhaustive, and entirely accurate? I have not done any in-depth studies in the matter either, but I find
it extremely hard to believe that education systems other than that of your "superior race" are so far behind as you try to
make them out to be. If, however, futher (first-hand) data proves otherwise, I'll be willing to accept it.
Nihilist:
I know for a fact that asian parents push their children much harder than caucasian parents do...
You can't make such a sweeping statement like that. I can't believe that I really have to spell it out for you, but here goes: I
am an Indian, and a student, too. India is a part of Asia. I do not feel my parents push me too hard. If they did, I don't think
I'd be here discussing this with you during my exams. I study what I want, when I want, according to what I feel is appropriate
for the moment. Without showing you my report cards, I will state that I'm above my class average. As for others, I have
some friends who are egged on by their parents a bit too much, but there are others who, far from being pushed ahead by
their parents, handle their studies with little, or no help from their parents. I am sure that the situation elsewhere, too, is as
widely varied.

Sorry, my definition of the word asian was a bit ambiguous. A better word to describe it would be oriental(china, japan, korea,
specifically). I do know for a fact that, in general, their parents push them harder. This is always the case, it is part of their
culture of strict discipline.
nbk2000 March 7th, 2004, 03:42 AM

Doing such informal research as asking people what their grades were is worse than useless, as it's self-biasing, and the
sample rate would be miniscule.
Only with the sample number in the many of thousands, with proper statistical controls, could it be accurate.
If we were to do it your way, then my opinion is already validated by decades of first-hand observation of the lack of math
skills in most negroids, otherwise how have I been able to short change so many of them for so many years without more
than 1 in 20 (at most) saying anything?
Since you don't think my technique accurate, how could I not assume the same of your offered research?
See?
We can argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin too, but that's just as productive.
To be quite frank about it, I'm tired of arguing with people about this subject.
In case no ones noticed, I've not changed my beliefs one wit in the 4 years I've been defending my belief in Aryan Racial
Purity against the TDU (Tolerance, Diversity, and Understanding) crowd that always comes against me here.
What I don't understand is what the fuck does anyone expect to gain by doing so? You came to this board for a reason.
Why?
Because we're not a bunch of fucktards talking about 30MbZ? Or snotty chemists who think of pyro and E&W as the red-
headed stepchild of science?
What other site can you talk about this stuff? None, otherwise you'd be there, right?
Is this board owned, ran, and payed for by hispanics, latins, indians (american or otherwise), asians, or africans? Nope. It's
done by white people. Why? I can't say for sure, but maybe it's cultural, or even racial. I'll not guess.
All I know is that Mega, NBK, and Anthony are whiteys! We like being white. I'll not speak of the others likes or dislike of other
races, as that's their place, but I know their opinions. :)
This is an E&W board. E&W is what we're here to talk, not argue about race, and who's opinion is right or wrong.
You know where we stand on the subject. We might make commentary on aspects of it, as it's inevitable of human nature to
talk about things that interest you, but we try to keep it lowkey.
Then a guest (as all members are) comes into OUR house, and starts talking shit about the carpet and our choice of wallpaper
patterns.
We don't like this.
We believe that, if your a guest here, that you should keep quiet about your opinions on the wallpaper. If the pattern is so
offensive to you that you don't feel you can keep quiet about it, leave before you say something stupid that'll get you kicked
out forever.
I'm starting to come to the belief that people who post threads for the sole purpose of starting arguments, pro or con, are
disruptive little trolls who need to be executed for the common good.
In fact, I think I'll start a new policy tonight.
ANYONE posting a comment or link to something that I believe will devolve into a pointless argument about race will be
summarily banned. It might even be retroactively applied.
We're racist. Deal with it. Don't like it, go somewhere else, because we'll not argue it here anymore.
In the same vein is the "America sucks" threads. I don't like seeing assholes ragging on the US when the US is the only
country with a written consitution that guarantees the freedom of speech. Yes, there's some minor restrictions on it, and it's
not perfectly appliead, as with anything in life. So what? It's more freedom than 95% of the world has.
Talk E&W in china and get a bullet in your head. Talk it in probably any muslim country in the world (unless it's part of Jihad
against the Great Satan :p) and get your head or hands whacked off.
After 4 years of listening to whiners, I'm sick of it.
Don't like it? Leave...go somewhere...fuck off and DIE! Stay here, talk shit, DIE!
Been here 3 years? Got 1,000 posts?
Doesn't matter. Talk shit, DIE! NO ONE IS INDISPENSIBLE!
End Fuhrer Communique.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Som e o n e h e l p m e o u t h e r e ,
Zeolites...
Log in
View Full Version : Someone help me out here, Zeolites...
SantasL.Helper D e c e m ber 22nd, 2003, 08:10 AM

Q u o t e f r o m m y science book:
W henever the Na+ ions in zeolite are being replaced by H+, zeolite will get acidic properties. This will make it useab l e a s a
katalyst, when for exam ple esterificating an acid and an alcohol to an ester and water.
Can someone here explains how this process works (as in, a little m ore detailed)? Sounds rather interesting to m e...
vulture D e c e m ber 22nd, 2003, 08:49 AM

W h a t m a k e s s o m e t h i n g a c i d i c ? T h e p r e s e n c e o f H+ ions. So, a zeolite th at contains H+ ions will show acidic behaviour in H2O
solution.
However, zeolites are often use the other way round. Fo r example, Na+ saturated zeolite is brought into a solution containing
Mg2+ and Ca2+ ions, 2 Na+ ions are exchanged for one Ca2+ or Mg2+ ion. This is widely used to prevent CaC O3 p recipitating
when boiling water.
Anath D e c e m ber 22nd, 2003, 09:00 AM

This isn't a "Som e b o d y p l e a s e d o m y science h omework" type post is it?
W hat in blazes is a "katalyst"??.
"esterificating" has a pretty flim sy case for being included in an English d ictionary. Try Esterification or even Esterifying..
Usin g Google would h a v e s a v e d u s a l l s o m e tim e, Zeolite +Catalyst +Ester gets m e over 1,000 hits.
SantasL.Helper Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 01:10 PM

Hey Anath, h ow about you tak ing that broom stick out of your arse? I would with the bigest am o u n t o f j o y c a p a b l e o f b e i n g
collected in a hum an being lik e to see how very lovely you and your english would type a descent am ount of dutch on a dutch
forum site. T herefor stop flam ing useless bullshit, start reading and learning and unless you got som ething usefull to say shut
the fuck up.
No, this is not my hom ework. I was reading my science book (yes, indd in order to make m y hom ework) and that part just
crossed my eyes and it looked usefull.
Thanks for the reply vulture, i was aiming at how the zeolite works as a catalyst though, anyone ca pable of telling m e?...
megalomania Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 01:54 PM

Anath has got the right of it, do a dam n search before asking th e s e k i n d s of questions. A little legwork on your part could have
gone a long way to answering your question.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > U nderground Bunk e r m a d e b y
m yself
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View Full Version : Underground Bunker made by myself
steyr Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 12:40 PM

I'm t h i n k i n g a b o u t m a k i n g u n d e r g r o u n d b u n k e r in my garden. I'm going to dig a hole - 2 x 2 x 2 m eters, cover it by bricks
inside, m ake ceiling and cover it lightly by dirt. I want to m ake my own lab there. Did anybody m a d e s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h i s ? I
want to trade experiences.
Bert Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 12:53 PM

Good light, g ood ventilation and ease in runnin g like hell if something goes wrong are all very good things in a lab for
energetic m aterials use. It's a lso nice to have a large "blow out panel" that will quickly relieve overpressure if anything goes
wrong so fast you don't have tim e to run. A "bunker" underground is unlikely to p o s e s s a n y o f t h e s e f e a t u r e s u n l e s s y o u ' v e
g o t a l o t o f m o n e y a n d m e c h a n i z e d e a r t h m o v i n g e q u i p m e n t . Y o u ' d b e b e t t e r o f f w i t h a s h e e t o f p lywood o v e r h e a d a n d a
wind screen of cardboard, a lean-to open on 2 sides in the garden would be easy, cheap and you could take it down between
uses...

I know that Bert, but if you use strong wooden boards, it won't fall. I'll use som e concrete to cover boards at the top, and dirt
f o r c a m o u f l a g e . T h e n I'll plant grass (not THC :) ) at the top, and that's it.
I don't want to m ake HE's there. Only sm a l l e x p l o s i v e s , a n d i m provised weapons. I can use it as cache, and hiding place.
I m a g i n e , s m all underground room, rough walls, rough ceiling, rough m etal lockers inside, desk and chair. AARGH ;] So nice!
zeocrash Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 03:44 PM

i believe this m ight help, ctrl_c attempted to convert an underground water tank into a bunker.
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1066&highlight=bunker
a l t h o u g h h e d i d n o t b u i l d t h e b u n k e r h i m self, the thread also discusses the practicallities of using an underground structure as
a lab

I ' v e r e a d e n i t , a n d m y p r o b l e m is to build, not to convert. Anyway thanks
tomu Decem ber 22nd, 2003, 06:10 PM

I h a d t o b u i l d o n e d u r i n g m y tim e in the arm ed forces. It's a lot of shoveling to b e s u r e . W e w e r e n i n e s o l d i e r s a n d d i g g e d a
hole a b o u t 1 , 5 m i n d i a m eter and about 3 - 4 m eters deep, then we digged sideways and m a d e a k i n d o f c a v e . T h e w a l l s a n d
the ceiling were reinforced with wooden posts and wooden boards. It was kind of small you couldn't stand upright in it.
If you want to build a larger undergrou nd bunker you have to move a lot of earth, lot's of hard work especially when your
a l o n e.
T h e r e i s s o m e i n f o o n b u i l d i n g a n u n d e r g r o u n d cellar on the web, I don't have a link but do a google search.
Ammonal D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 01:31 AM

Steyr, a bunker could certainly be a very handy thing to have in your possesion BUT are you planning on digging a 2 meter
c u b e h o l e b y h a n d ? I h a v e t r y e d d i g g i n g a b u n k e r b y h a n d b e f o r e a n d i t t o o k m e about 4 hours straight to dig a hole that was
1 m e t e r d e e p a n d a b o u t 2 m eters square. It in volves a lot of hard work and couldnt you get a bob cat (sm all excavator
m achine, with different attachm ents like backhoe, trencher, drills, etc) and say that you are putting in a septic or un d e r g r o u n d
water tank. This may not be a good excuse if you are in a town with neighbours o n each side. The other thing is that when you
dig soil out it is m ost likely com pacted so when you dig it up you end up with a lot of dirt, where will you dispose of it?
irish D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 03:21 AM

Digging is not THAT hard, it's all in the shovelling ;) (over ten years of sm all scale hand m ining talking here :D ) if you have
hard ground use a crowbar first. Just remem ber it's easyer to dig a bigge r hole than one you can't move freely in, ie if you can
swing your shovel freely in your hole it's less work than digging out a hole half the size.
wrench352 D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 05:25 AM

Try and rent a bobcat,its a tiny lil tractor.It will do your job in 2 h ours or less.I believe you can rent attachm ents like a
b a c k h o e , a n d posthole auger as well.
steyr D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 07:24 AM

Shoveling isn't that hard, when you have friends, who can help :D I'll do it by hand. BTW maybe someone has drawings of
underground bunker?
Flake2m D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 08:40 AM

A 2x2x2 space isn't really that m uch when you see how big it really is. La bs are less cluttered and less prone to accidents wh e n
y o u h a v e m ore room to work with. I su ggest yo u g o f o r a 2 H x 3 W x4L size area If you want to m a k e a b u n k e r . D i g g i n g t h e h o l e
is th e e a s y p art. You then need to set up the foundations and walls, then figure out ventilation system s, electricity and
plum bing.
steyr D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 09:06 AM

Ventilation will be at the roof, it will be a pipe with "roof" (rain), and filter inside (bugs). Electricity may be from my house near
b u n k e r . P l u m bing is hardest part, but it's not necessary, because I want to make bunker-lab, not panic roo m. Later I'll think
about generator for e lectricity.
YayItGoBoom! D e c e m ber 25th, 2003, 12:17 AM

As m entioned in the other top ic, having your lab underground in a confined space would be suicide . I've thought about this and
have com e u p with a pretty cool idea. Have your underg round hangout place, rein force the roof, and cover it all except for a 2
f t d i a a c c e s s h o l e . T h e n b u i l d a s h e d / s m all building over it. The building could have your lab equipm ent, and be built so that
you could get the hell out of there and fast, while having the entrance to the hide y h o l e h i d d e n . Y o u c o u l d u s e t h e h o l e f o r
whatever, storage of unstable/dangerous chem s, a quick place to hide (might save your a ss but then again be suicide if you're
caught), or a combination of both.

H a s a n y o n e d o n e t h e calculations for throughput of clean air, wa ter requirem ents for a day, etc.?
I s e c o n d t h e c a r b o n m o n o x i d e d e t e c t o r, do you own a canary?
Skean Dhu January 4th, 2004, 12:55 PM

i dug a bunker once, it was pretty much what your describing except it wa s m aybe 2x2x1.3 after ground breaking i did all of
the digging w/ an arm y shovel(you know, the fold up type). yea it took a while bu t i'd work on it for a couple hours at a time.
Digging is really relaxing for you m ind. cause its so tedious it lets you wonder through your though ts and sort out your
p r o b l e m s , p l a n a h e a d , d a y d r e a m . b u t t h e n a h ouse got built in the lot near m y p it and the landscapers dum ped dirt in it when
teh bulldozed the gra d e i n . a n d s i n c e t h e n p e o p l e h a v e m o v e d i n a n d t h e i r d o g b a r k s a t e v e r y t h i n g s o i w a s u n a b l e t o
complete it .
M a k e s u r e y o u r s p o t h a s g o o d d r a i n a g e. and pick a week that you aren't supposed to get any rain cause that will halt the
p r o c e s s r e a l q u i c k . n o t n o m e n t i o n m a ke digging much harder o n y o u ( a s s u m i n g y o u d o n ' t r e n t a b o b c a t / b a c k h o e )
wrythawk February 7th, 2004, 10:31 AM

m m m m a k i n g a b u n k e r I h a v e m a d e s o m e r e i n f o r c e d f o x h o l e s , I u s e d t h e m a s a safe place to sit while I was testin g s o m e
pyro devices.
but if you want a bunker(i have a real wo2 bunker 20 m eters from m y b a c k y a r d ) y o u r e g o n n a n e e d t o s h o v e l a l o t a n d n e e d
to set wooden concrete casings and then dump them full of concrete(put iron netting in them for m ore strength)than you will
have a real bunker.
Sparky February 7th, 2004, 01:05 PM

If you're going to rent a digging machine then you would also have to know how to use it, or learn. I'm guessing the rental
places won't want to rent it to you if the don't think you know how to use it.
As to why you're digging it perhaps a good reason, if asked, is a pond fo r fish or sm all pool.
W hich brings m e to m y next point. A swimm ing pool could be a good start (at lea st) for an underground place. Getting one put
in is expensive of course but after one is put in, the concrete (or perhap there are different linings?) basica lly just stays there.
If one wants to get rid of the pool, it just get's filled in. This is one of the m ain financial drawbacks to getting a pool since you
can never really get rid of it and this can lower the land value. In other words there could be an off chance that someone's
house here has a pool lining already there in their backyard. Just though t I'd m ention it.
blacktalon March 3rd, 2004, 06:59 PM

I dug a sort of cellar once. The thing e n d e d u p b e i n g 4 H X 4 W X 8L. I just m a d e a l a r g e b ox with a door tunnel out of 1'
treated m arine plywood, reinforced the roof and walls well and painted it with several coats of waterproof pa int and then som e
tar like stuff that dried hard. Then I dug a big ass hole and lowered the box into it. Myself and a friend were able to com p l e t e
t h e t a s k i n t h r e e w e e k e n d s . T h e b i g g e st pain of the whole project was all the rocks. Around here you go down about 2' in cla y
and then you hit a nice layer of m e d i u m sized rocks. If not for them it would have went much faster.
s9ar7acu3 March 9th, 2004, 03:27 AM

T h i s i s a n e x plosives forum, why not use explosives to create your hole. That is assum ing your are in a rural area.
A cylinder packed with AN pherhaps, I am not fam iliar with prope r blasting procedure for ground excavation.
atlas#11 March 9th, 2004, 01:21 PM

b a c k h o e s a r e a s i n c h t o u s e , I l e a r n e d when I was 11 if I remem ber correctly. All we have is a sma ll trencher with the backfill
blad e and bucket attached to the front, beats the hell o u t o f a s h o v e l . B a c k h o e s a r e e x p e nsive to rent, the last time we rented
o n e i t h a d a 2 4 " b u c k e t a n d I d o n ' t r e m ember the exact cost bu t it cost us over 400$ for the week(got our moneys worth
though, took out phone lines for the entire neighbor hood :p )!
Your right though s9ar7acu3, explosives would be the way to go if you live in a rocky area like m e. A deep rock 5 gal watter
bottel full of anfo should give you a good start. Digging up here without som e m ajor equipm ent is next to impossible but Just
a little concealed space to hide your less than leagal ap parel would be nice. I use d to have an old sistern a b o u t t h e s a m e s i z e
as the one steyr had but my dad caved it in and burried it. O h well, If I had the initiative I could ju st go buy a couple 50lb
bags of fertilizer and a couple cans of desile and m a k e s o m e h o l e s i n t h e g r o u n d .
mr.pyro March 10th, 2004, 02:55 PM

Yes, I have built one of these bunkers, but not for the purpose of a lab.
Over winter break, I made a vacation trip out to my freinds house, and h e l i v e s i n a s e m i o p e n a r e a a n d w e d e c i d e d t o b u i l d a
bunker. It took us, 3 guys about 4 hours to dig a hole about 8ft*10ft*3Ft, in soft m oist dirt. We did all of our digging at night,
a n d c a m e b a c k t h e n e x t m orning and constructed a che ap wood fram e about .5ft over it a nd a brown tarp, and then procedded
to tie down tum bleweeds over it and around it, and this is in the middle of about an acre feild. No one could see it from a r o u n d
and it was very difficlut to loca te if you were loo k i n g . A n d i t t o o k s o m e o t h e r p e r s o n s a b o u t 1 5 m in to find it, when asked to
hunt for it. W e also put astro turf in the bottom and the n eventually used it for BB gun hunting of rabbits and other small
anim als
GibboNet March 11th, 2004, 06:04 AM

I've dug a fe w holes, meaning to make bunkers over the years. the first was great, it was just a foxhole / slittrench type setup,
that I m ade just for fun.
W hen I attempted the real thing, it wasn't too bad. It started off about 2 .5 x 2.5 metres square, I was planning to dig till I
could stand up in it.
Of course, after a me tre and a half, it started to fill up with water. No, it didn't rain, thee's a perme nant natural spring
s o m ewhere close, and it always filled to the sam e level no m atter how many time s I em ptied it.
It's starnge because the first one was only 25 metres from the second, a nd there was never any water in it. :confused:
irish March 12th, 2004, 05:48 AM

GibboNet, Yo u get that in wet ground some of m y Sapphire mines are full of water and take non-stop pum ping others nearby
have bugger all water in them :rolleyes: . May not be a bad idea if your hole is going to be in use for a while to dig a sm all
test hole a few feet below the deepest point to see if water is there. If you do have water near the bottom of your hole/bunker
it will be dam p and stink after a little while.
Mr.Azo March 12th, 2004, 12:31 PM

I rem e m b e r t r y i n g t o m a k e a s o r t o f b u n k e r m y s e l f .
I constructed a wooden box in m y backyard. Then I dug a big hole. It took a lot of tim e. I used wood just as a experim ent, to
see if it was possible to make a bunker that way (digging a hole , and dum ping the bunker into it :) ). It wasn`t acctually
m e a n t t o b e a b u n k e r , m ore like a hid ing place or storage place . The project stopped whe n I found this huge, enorm o u s s t o n e
in m y hole.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > HNO3 Synth using HCl
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View Full Version : HNO3 Synth using HCl
Zeitgeist D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 12:43 AM

Hydrochloric acid (33%) and NH4NO3.
Could that work in any way?
I could get som e conc. H2SO 4 without too much trouble, but it's expensive and i've got heaps of HCl here.
Thanks.
metal dragon D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 12:53 AM

This m ay be of help.

Of a ll places you didn't search , the nitric acid section! Your question would have been answered!
Zeitgeist D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 02:34 AM

I *had a look* in the Nitric Acid section, going back 1 year. Didn't see it.
Didn't bother with Chem istry R elated either. My Very Bad.
Thanks for the help, and forgiving m e....

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Kew ls on tape!
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View Full Version : Kewls on tape!
blindreeper December 23rd, 2003, 06:34 AM

This was posted on xinventions but I thought more people would see it here. Its basicly a video of 3 kew ls making a calcium hypochlorite/brake fluid pressure "bomb" in a coke
bottle and it blows up in the guys hand!
http://desk003.com/fark/MAILBOX/boom.avi
Needs DivX though, which can be got at www .divx.com
I personally think he w asn't hurt that bad because you see him still standing after the explosion. But who knows right?
Ammonal December 23rd, 2003, 08:28 AM

I can not believe that I once did that ( not exploding in my hand though :)) What a complete and utter waste of CaClO3 ??? Anyways good work Blindreeper, it might help to
deter some of the dumb little shits out there that "Chlorine Bombs are not KEWL" but totally fucking useless. Dry ice is much more fun and satisfying w hen under a foot of water
:p
Hey it was only yesterday a kid was trying to tell me that granular pool chlorine and AN fertiliser goes really well; so well in fact he reckoned it detonated. Shame this kid was
27 years old?!
Flake2m December 23rd, 2003, 08:32 AM

That is the most stupid thing I have seen in a long time. The idiots that w ere doing that almost deserve to be blown up. You can tell from the video that they didn't know what
they were doing and had no idea of the potential risks. To all the k3w |s out there: GO AND GET A CLUE
vulture December 23rd, 2003, 09:42 AM

You know , looking at the video it seems to me the dude holding the bottle is trying to be tuff and impress the other guys. They seem to know it's dangerous, because they
retreat very quickly w hen they hand him the bottle.
Sounds like a typical case of I-want-to-be-part-of-the-popular-herd-so-I-have-to-do-something-that-shows-fucking-guts :rolleyes:
BTW, if the dude really got hurt badly, it w ould be fucking stupid to put this on the net. Certainly because you can recognize two of them.
zeocrash December 23rd, 2003, 09:52 AM

it sounds amusing, but unfortunately i cant view it until i get the right codec, i don't suppose anyone knows w here i can get it
Mumble December 23rd, 2003, 01:56 PM

It appears to be a standard DivX codec. Blindreeper posted a link in the initial post. If that still doesn't work try some site like this (http://video-codec.8m.com/codecs.htm).
Just curious, but are you trying to open it in windows media player? If you that could be why it's not working. Windows doesn't like DivX because of the "piracy" issues so it
disabled the use of the DivX codec(or so I've heard). Try dow nloading the DivX media player. That's my default player but I tried and it doesn't work in WMP.
SpiffyVision December 23rd, 2003, 04:35 PM

Did I hear the words "not very dangerous" at the very beggining of the tape or is it just me?
steyr December 23rd, 2003, 04:58 PM

I watched that still-by-still, and it seems that everything is ok with his hand. I think, they mixed up some water and baking pow der, it blew up with lil' boom, they increased
volume of it, and that is w hat happens. I'm lame in explosives, but when I w as younger I made some pop-bombs for fun and I know how it blows.
Nihilist December 23rd, 2003, 05:28 PM

They weren't using brake fluid, in the video you hear the guy say "he's now adding the alcohol to the chlorine", when he says chlorine I would think he means hypochlorite and
doesn't know the difference. And yes, he does say "it's not very dangerous" in the beginning of the video =p
vulture December 23rd, 2003, 05:51 PM

The dude got very lucky. If you watch it frame per frame you'll see that just before the explosion gasses are already escaping through a hole in the bottom.
Also, w hat strikes me is that the dude shows absolutely no fear or initiative to throw it aw ay. Maybe they believed it would work like a rocket by blowing the stopper out? Why
would the other dude say "now turn it upside dow n and shake it!". Why upside down?
lemming December 23rd, 2003, 07:08 PM

My first post. I can sort of relate to these clowns. Back w hen I was 15, or maybe 16, I did the following:
Into a 12" diameter pie tin, I poured approx. 500ml. of common gasoline. I then set a heavily reinforced aerosol can(red spray paint, with a tight fitting steel mesh hydraulic
hose outside sleeve) into the center of the pan. The can was placed in an upright position, with the nozzle end up. I then lit then gasoline and retired to a safe distance.
After a minute or thereabouts, the can fell over, and out of the pan of flaming gasoline. I noted the nozzle w as on fire at this time.
Not wanting to waste a good pop when the can ruptured, I sought and quickly found a tree limb of about 5 metres in length. As I foolishly attempted to reposition the fallen
device, it 'exploded' w ith a loud report, and I was hit by hot red paint. I required a trip to the ER as my burns w ere of a sufficient nature to blister and peel within minutes.
After the application of suitable burn treatments, I was released with suprisingly few questions asked.
Onlookers at the scene claim that I was, "entirely engulfed in the fireball." This from a true distance of 5 metres.
Within a week, I was back to my early experiments w ith improvised pyrotechnic devices, my left arm still bandaged, and my glasses still spattered with red paint.
I hope I have learned much since those days, and my lack of any further accidents is testimony to the lessons in safety I learned that August afternoon.
blindreeper December 23rd, 2003, 07:14 PM

Upsidedow n because all the "reactants" were at the bottom of the bottle and if it was turned upsidedow n it w ould have mixed faster and better.
Ammonal December 23rd, 2003, 08:15 PM

Reacts quicker = BOOM in the idiots hand, I still cant figure out w hy they said they w ere using alcohol. Must be a different breed of KEWL w here these idiots w here cos around
here they use coolant and hypochlorite or water / sugar / hypochlorite.
McGyver December 23rd, 2003, 09:59 PM

Looks like there mixing in some isopropyl rubbing alcohol. Break fluid is basicaly methanol, also an alcohol. I guess lye reacts with any alcohol.
They probably made some dry ice bombs and though that this new mixture wouldn't build up pressure much faster. :rolleyes:
rp3o8 December 23rd, 2003, 11:02 PM

It does appear he is adding isopropanol by the profile of the bottle, but I dont think the reac tion betw een isopropanol and calcium hypochlorite would be vigorous enough to rupture the
bottle within the three seconds after the cap was screwed on.
Brake fluid is normally ethylene glycol, not methanol, and lye is an alkali hydroxide, not calcium hypochlorite.

Even if they did escape serious injury thay are still going to have the problem of getting un reacted alcohol and Calcium hypochlorite all over them. There parents aren't going to
be happy w hen they have to explain how come there clothes have been bleached and the possible chemical burns on there bodies.
Haggis December 24th, 2003, 02:45 AM

Am I the only one that finds this hilarious? Yea, and it looks to be rubbing alcohol, and it also sounds like a 12 or 13 year old is doing commentary. The fool that holds it looks to
be, err...14 years, and the guy adding the alcohol I w ould say is 13. I can bet they yanked this from 'Files for Mischief' or some such drivel.
Please refrain from being fools in the future. Thank you.
McGyver December 24th, 2003, 02:46 AM

It funny how they were "trying" to be scientific about it in the video, when the kid taping says w hat they're mixing, notice how that one kid looks at the bottle for no reason
when hes mixing in the alcohol. Whats the point of shacking the mixture, that when you throw it, the impact of it hiting the ground is going to give a nice stir in the first place? I
also like the part w hen the kid is moaning at the end. Is there any more info on that video? Its from fark so maybe someone there know s what happened to that guys hand. I
bet none of the kewls involved fucked with the stuff after the accident.

I think it w as hypochlorite in the bottle (what they called the 'chlorine', idiots) and the guys was adding the alcahol (most probably eth/methanol from methalated spirits) to
create that autoignition effect. Brake fluid will also work for this becuase it contains ethelyne glycol (antifreeze to stop your brake fluid freezing up) which is very similar to
alcahols (only one more OH group to ethanol). I am still suprised at how fast it reacted, I wouldn't have expected that in their postion, but then again I wouldn't be making 'l337
chLoRiNe Bombz' either.
If you frame by frame there is a frame where the kid is still holding the bottle but there is also gas in the air, I think this is just an artifact from the compression (when I taped a
flash salute the origional AVI had one completely w hite frame and one after it with a fireball, but when compressed both frames had been merged) which might mean that the
bottle didn't vent before hand and he felt the full force ;D
Oh well, atleast one group of people will think tw ice before screw ing around w ith E&W...

I actually wouldn't be surprised if their balls hadn't dropped yet. Thats if they have any. You can tell from the commontary thet they dont have a clue, and there age
[nasal voice] They're mixing the Chlorine and alcohol [/nasal voice]
If that guy didn get his hand blow n off, then they would get no sympathy.
A-BOMB December 24th, 2003, 12:21 PM

:D :D :D Funny! very funny! And here goes the Darwin aw ard for worlds stupidist kewl, drum roll please .......... and it goes to those kewl assholes!
McGyver December 24th, 2003, 02:54 PM

Blackhawk, its obvious there pouring in some rubbing alcohol from the looks of the bottle(at least if you live in the US). I dont think they would go through the trouble of
pouring methanol or anti-freeze into a bottle w hich initialy contained rubbing alcohol.
SpiffyVision December 24th, 2003, 03:25 PM

yeah, that looks like your average rubbing alcohol bottle from the US. When i looked at it frame by frame, his hand is still shaking it, you see a little cloud form in front of it,
then it explodes. His hand and arm are probably to the side of his body by then.

Meh, I have no idea what a rubbing alcahol bottle looks like, I have never seen one here, Unless of course it goes by another name? What is it composed of, andyw ay the
intended effect is still the same (as these dipshits found out in a very funny way).
peterthesmart December 25th, 2003, 12:55 AM

For those of you who have never before seen a bottle of rubbing alcohol, here is a link.http://w ww.walgreens.com/store/product.jhtml?CATID= 100107&PRODID=475

Huh, suprisingly similar to what I said, metho, which is a mostly pure bottle of ethyl alcahol (~95%) with the rest being made up of methanol and assorted gaging agents to
stop sheeple drinking it, mistaking it's name for something eddible.

Blackhawk, rubbing alcohol is isopropryl (sp?) alcohol.. Quite different from ethyl alcohol.

http://ww w.w algreens.com/store/prod...&PRODID=475
This shortcut I was given when I asked what it w as says otherwise:
"Walgreens
Ethyl Rubbing Alcohol 70%"
"Active Ingredients
Ethyl Alcohol by Volume 70%"
This is the problem with general prodcut labeling, it makes it very hard for pyros to grab products for chemistry uses.
lucas December 26th, 2003, 11:35 AM

I know a local Kew l who Used NaOH and Chlorine and ended up w ith it exploding and showering one of their eyes. He had to go to hospital but didnt suffer any permanant
damage, pity. He told his mum he was helping unblock a drain.
McGyver December 26th, 2003, 02:34 PM

This should clear things up http://www .inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim290.htm

Rubbing Alcohol can be both Isopropanol and Ethanol(amongst other things mixed in). The Ethyl rubbing alcohol here happens to be bright green. Generally, rubbing alcohol is
Isopropanol. I have just recently found the Ethyl version.
This link, from the very same site might I add, is isopropanol, in the exact same bottle: http://www .walgreens.com/store/product.jhtml?
id= prod476&CATID=100947&navAction=push&navCount= 0
The Ethyl version: http://w ww.w algreens.com/store/product.jhtml?id=prod475&CATID=100947&navAction= push&navCount=0
~Phelixx~ March 28th, 2004, 12:19 PM

More kew ls on tape:
http://ww w.ebaumsw orld.com/firemelon.html
http://ww w.ebaumsw orld.com/nadsblow .html
http://perp.com/whale/index.html
:rolleyes:
markgollum March 28th, 2004, 06:02 PM

Those three videos are really funny, especially the first one.
I liked the reaction the kid with the baseballbat had when he realized that he was suddenly in a fireball LOL. REALLY WORTH dow nloading.
I also liked how you can see the red mist blown in tho the air when the whale is blow n up.
darkdontay April 10th, 2004, 08:52 AM

The w hale one I have seen before, it happend close [around 1hr drive or less] to where I live. Only one of my uncles remebers it but they told me it w as the funniest thing they
had ever seen. The video is realy damn funny too.
It does allow you to see w hat happnes w hen to many people watch hollywood movies then get delusions of grandure and belive they can fix teh problem "wit' ol' keg a black
powder."
It w ould have been a balst :) to have been their back then w hen it happend though, the falling whale fat would have sucked. To have w atched profesional morons and the
police go along with it.... to such a humours outcome would have been very enjoyable.
spidertard April 10th, 2004, 09:38 AM

Damn, I really dont have any clue why they would w ant to shake a bottle that has corrosive stuff inside + is going to explode w ithin seconds :p
They could have just put it on the floor and give it a good kick :rolleyes:
Omg --> http://www .abc.net.au/westernplains/news/200403/s1073715.htm
Un******* believable :mad:
Making glassbotles explode near people using "chlorine" is just retarded :mad:
Why not use a small amount of Bp and a plastic bottle ? Grrr
Mr-Eckted April 11th, 2004, 01:24 AM

Here's another link to the video. I noticed the first one was down.
http://ww w.ebaumsw orld.com/bottlebomb.html
ucorky September 8th, 2006, 01:20 AM

thanks for the enlightenment on this. I was looking to ask if anyone had seen it. The ka-boom in bottlebomb is my windows error sound. It drives some folks nuts but man does
it tell me I have an error.
I did a frame by frame on it after converting it to an AVI file so that I could see each frame and not a keyframe at every 5 that I think the movie has in its rare form. I think I
see a deformed hand being retracted but then the camera points down and stops. I'd love to talk to the shooters of this tape just to see what ever became of them.
cutefix September 8th, 2006, 11:10 PM

Picture of a wannabee suicide bomber:p
http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/firecrackersuicide.html
ucorky September 10th, 2006, 08:29 PM

Now there's a friggin nut for ya.
Under and overpass to boot. I guess he likes the echo effect along w ith the scortched flesh. sheeesh.
Syke September 14th, 2006, 10:17 PM

If you search on youtube for zippo tricks you can see like 20 different dumbasses refilling the lighter and then proceeding to set their arm on fire, Usually after warning the
viewer about setting their arm on fire.
Bert September 19th, 2006, 03:14 AM

These kids found a 3" shell with a torn leader,
perhaps a finale shell that got dragged out
and fell on the ground. Watch what happens to
them.
http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=8aaG2qz5Dyk&NR
c.Tech September 19th, 2006, 06:27 AM

Good of you to give them some advise Bert.
That was a 3" class "B" aerial shell you found. I go back to our display sites at dawn the morning after our show s JUST SO SHIT LIKE THIS DOESN'T EVER GET FOUND BY
STUPID KIDS LIKE YOU. That fuse is designed to burn at around 100 feet per second, there is no way to hand light a shell like that and get far enough away for safety (your
fuse w as obviously wet). The initial "fwoomp" was the lift charge, you've got 3 seconds or so after that before the shell bursts-
But I dont thing these kids will learn anything from their mistakes.
It's funny how when the fuse was longer than the final attempt they ran like bitches but then as soon as he lit it for the last time he just stood their staring at the shell letting it
get ever closer to the end.
At least the other kids has a little sense staying back (I stress little)
EDIT: These people looked like the smarter side of kewls until I saw their end videos. http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMdyqCaM1A&mode=related&search=
Jacks Complete September 19th, 2006, 06:56 PM

Impressively dumb. I was getting that funny feeling w here you dread what's going to happen, as it is so obvious... They didn't blow off their hands, which w as impressive.
Shows they have at least one IQ point between them.
http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=lmBRZ7UR3Rw is very cool. A montage of a cannon of some sort firing at various targets from a high-speed camera, set to the 1812.
Beautifully done.
Bert September 19th, 2006, 08:20 PM

Impressively dumb. I was getting that funny feeling w here you dread what's going to happen, as it is so obvious....
Yes, everyone I've pointed that video out to has had the same reaction. I'm going to make that video part of my training presentation- The part about lost/diverted material
being the greatest danger from display fireworks.
nbk2000 September 20th, 2006, 08:39 AM

Oh, lets just admit it...we've all done the same stupid shit ourselves. :D
Difference is that we've survived long enough to know better, or had somew here to go to teach us. ;)
Sausagemit September 20th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Oh, lets just admit it...we've all done the same stupid shit ourselves. :D
The stupidest thing I've ever done was tape 5 estes D rocket engines around decent sized wood dow el in a bottle rocket fashion. Then expected them to go off all at the same
time when they w ere fuse lit and then proceded to light it off in my front lawn (I was kinda tipsy). Needless to say it lit my neighbors lawn on fire. I'm just super glad and lucky
it didn't land on somebodys house. Also I'm really lucky how it only went about 10 feet into the air and horizontal about 100 feet so I could keep my eye on the flaming piece of
wreckage.
megalomania September 20th, 2006, 10:51 PM

Lets face it, they got lucky. The time code on the tape w as Aug 30, so if it w as a July 4 firework it had almost 2 months to get thoroughly damp. I was expecting that tape to
end w ith exhibit A in the maiming of juvenile X. Luck favors fools and little children, so its a good thing they were both.
c.Tech September 21st, 2006, 01:01 AM

Heres a good one. The title says it all.
http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=r2ldjnwu8MA&mode=related&search=
EDIT: Ouch!! http://www .youtube.com/watch?v= GIiQ4yDOIns&NR
Bert September 21st, 2006, 02:00 AM

Luck or a long piece of visco have saved many a fool.
nbk2000 September 21st, 2006, 08:22 AM

I saw something neat in the video set to the 'Bodies hit the floor' song...a gallon of nitromethane burning. :)
A very hot and clean flame, w ith none of the sooty smoke like you get from burning gas or kerosene.
Looks like a very good fuel for firebombs, flamethrow ers, or PMJB-style FAE's.
Syke September 21st, 2006, 11:57 PM

Looks like a very good fuel for firebombs, flamethrow ers, or PMJB-style FAE's.
It seemed to burn a little too fast to really be effective. the explosion really didnt stick to the ground so its probably noot that good of an incindeary.
Sausagemit September 22nd, 2006, 12:55 AM

NM burns really good if it comes into contact w ith what you wan't to burn in liquid form. It burns so quick though that it w ould not w ork so good for a flame thrower. But if you
coated something or someone with it and then ignited it ;)
NM burns at about 2400 C and requires much less oxygen to combust than gasoline and has a higher burn rate. So NM would probabbly work very well for a fuel air bomb.
Pretty much every drag racing accident you see w here the car bursts into flames is a NM alcohol mixture. If you watch really closely you can't see smoke in the initial flash like
you can w ith gasoline explosions. The smoke comes later from everything else on the car burning.
Or just like this crash (http://ebaumsw orld.com/2006/07/carexplode.html).
nbk2000 September 22nd, 2006, 07:48 AM

The use of NM as a flamethrower fuel would depend on what it w as you wanted to burn.
If you wanted to burn people by direct flame, without any annoying smoke or residual fire to complicate things, then an extremely hot and non-persistant flame fuel seems the
ticket.
NM would also burn in places with limited air supplies, such as caves and tunnels.
Mainly, the smokeless nature of it would be the main attraction, since race car fuel fires (mainly alcohol) are invisible during daylight, and no smoke to draw attention = Win! :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Det cord in the concrete
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Magas D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 07:40 AM

read this its am a z i n g w h a t p e o p l e d o
http://www.pctonline.com/News/news.asp?Id=2317
nbk2000 D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 04:55 PM

I m a g i n e a w h o l e p a t i o e m b e d ded with DETCOR D and set off when piggies go to hit the do or. :D
xyz D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 09:48 PM

Even better would be som e s h eet explosive with a layer of ball b earings over the top.
metal dragon D e c e m ber 23rd, 2003, 11:04 PM

So have claym ores fo r walls. :eek: Aghhhh that would hurt :D
chemwarrior D e c e m ber 24th, 2003, 12:02 AM

... And Ill be laughing m y ass off when you get a Darwin award for killing yourself by accidentally triggering it....;)

Laying out a large diameter polyethyle ne tube through the patio concrete would b e easily done, while it's being poured of
course, to allow for a binary liquid explosive to be pum ped through it and detonated when required.
This would be RTPB "Plan for Failure" compliant, as there wouldn't be any explosive more powerful than a blasting cap until you
m anually turned open the stopcocks for the liquid explosive, which is inert until m ixed anyways. :)
Darkbloodpriest D e c e m ber 26th, 2003, 12:30 PM

D a m n! I'm not the only one with this k ind of idea :D
Although I was thinking about det cord in between layers of
nipo lit with a epoxy paint/sealant. And I was thinking m ore
a l o n g the lines of the entire sidewalk in front of m y hou s e .
Never thought of the patio ide a. THAT'S hom e protection.
Atleast nobody would get hurt if they d rilled into my "concrete".
green beret D e c e m ber 29th, 2003, 06:55 PM

M a g a s , g o o d to see youre still around, are those beethovens still up for sale?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > New ruger 10/22
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mark151 D e c e m ber 24th, 2003, 02:37 AM

Hey all. It's been a while since I've last posted, as I accidently ruined m y last account(Regular m ark). Anyway, I've finally
convinced m y parents to get me a .22, and it a rrives on the 30th. And, like all m y toys, it needs im p r o v e m e n t . S o , d o e s
a n y o n e h a v e any sug gestions for useful accessories? I allready have a beam shot laser, and 1 extra m ag, but now what? I was
t h i n k i n g s o m e hi-caps, but wh at kind are reliab le? Also, would it be possible to turn the 10/22 into a tec-22 style we apon for
h o m e defense? How are those hellstorm and other system s for the 10/22? What's your favorite .22 amm o ?
Thanks and happy hollidays

Hey Mark,
I h a v e a 2 5 r o u n d B u t l e r C r e e k m ag, which is very reliable. Get the one with the steel feed lips.
You can get lots of different stocks and the like, search around google for somewhere near you.
Forg et "Favorite" am m o ! G e t t w o b o x e s o f a s m any types as you can afford, and a stack of targets. Get it on paper, then write
e a c h a m m o type on a different target. Before you shoot a test target, sh oot at least ten rounds through it to gunk it with that
type of am m o.
Bench at least 10 rounds into each target from a differe nt box, and then do 50 if you have time, with 25 free or slung or
elbo w-rested, and 25 bench-rested. From this, you will narrow down which b r a n d s s h o o t b e s t . A l s o , t a k e a n o t e p a d , a n d j o t
down any m isfires, and jams, and how big the flash from the port and muzzle are.
Afterwards, you will see that the expen sive stuff som etim e s s h o o t s b e t t e r , a n d s o m e t i m e s d o e s n ' t . E a c h g u n l i k e s o n e b r a n d
m ore than the rest, e spcially semi-autos. If there are two winners, just shoot the cheapest one! I settled on the cop per-wash
R e m ington, and the non-copp er wash version.
However, my Ruger doesn't shoot worth shit, so I have to get it sorted when I have the time and m o n e y . I h a v e s h o t m a n y
Ruger 10/22s but the y all by far outshot m ine. :(
I have no idea what the laws on silencers is like in Canada, but they aren't really worth it, im o , o n t h e R u g e r . T h e y t a k e o u t
the sharp blast/crack of the bullet leaving the muzzle if it is sub-sonic, but not the noise from supersonic shock. However, you
still get quite a lot of noise from the action, including m ore back blast, as the pressure stays higher for longer. Don't bother if it
is a massive hassle, basically.
A hellstorm would be fun, I am sure!
keith January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 0 4 P M

.22 shorts, a reflex silencer, a n d a 4 x s c o p e i s a l l I h a v e o n m in e and I kill birds in my neighbors back yard with him in it and
he doesnt notice! Actually the birds are in his big pecan tree but its funny as hell whn he hears/sees them fall for what he
thinks is no reason. The first tim e I sh ot a short through my silencer I th ough it misfired...all you can hear is the fireing pin
click I swear!!!! Its fucking awsome. Now if you'll excuse m e s o m e birds/cats need to die.
Chemical_burn January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 3 : 5 5 P M

hey Keith got any pics I would love to see your gun. Its not that I dont believe ya z. Its just that I personally find it hard to
b e l i e v e t h a t s o m eone can easily aquire a reflex silencer unless they m anufactured it them selves. If this is the case theb
plea se feel free to post any and all inform ation about it as I is very dificult to find any information on relfex silencers that
pertains to DIY.

http://guns.connect.fi/rs/Reflex.htm l
I m a d e m i n e m yself using PVC pipe, washers, and alittle epoxy. Use your im agenation, theyre easy to m ake with very little
tools at all. If you really want I could p ost a pic but I do n t h a v e a c a m e r a , I ' d h a v e t o u s e m y friends.
W ell I'm bored so I'll just explain:

buy:1 foot of 1.5" PVC pipe
2 end caps to fit the pipe
4 bolts(I use 1/4"x2')
2 washer with an OD close to 1.5 and an Id close to .5"
JB weld(epoxy)
roll of electricle tape
Drill a 3/4" hole in the center of one cap and put it on o n e s i d e o f t h e P V C p i p e .

Slide the cap over your barrel with the PVC pipe facing forward toward the m u z z l e .
The cap should be against your stock, Tape it securely.
Drill 4 holes into the PVC pipe 1 inch down from the muzzle of your barre l l . T h e h o l e s s h o u l d b e e v e n l y s p a ced arou nd it as to
m ake four opposite corners. Make sure a screw isnt directly on top becau se it will block the veiw of your scope.
Screw the bolts into the holes an even amount so that your barrel is centered in the pipe.
U n l e s s y o u b arrel is really long there will be enough room to epoxy the washers infront of your muzzle. eve nly space them
between the muzzle and the end of the PVC pipe.
Drill a 1/4" hole in the center of the other cap.
secure other cap on the front of the PVC pipe.
Put a cleanin g rod down your barrel and use that to aline you silencer. Use the four screws to adjust it.(only took m e a b o u t 5
m in to get it perfect)
Make sure screws are very tight and cleaning rod doesnt touch the silencer at all when holding the gun with the barrel pointing
strig ht up(so gravity doesnt bend the rod)
Test fire
If it blows ap art your front cap , your suppressor wasnt adjusted correctly. Replace a new front cap and try again. It is unlikely
the bullet will hit the washers because the holes in them are 1/2" instead of 1/4".
Do not glue anything except the washers. Just use tape.
O n l y u s e . 2 2 s h o r t a m m o. .22long rifle is too, loud.
High rise scope m o u n t s m a y b e n e e d b u t w e r e n t f o r m i n e .
My suppressor is one so tight it has never once m o v e d ( a n d I v e b u m ped it hard),never the less, be carefull and gen tle with it!
Good luck and dont shoot into the air!
shooter3 January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 2 4 P M

Mine didn't shoot well either. I took it apart and cleaned out a half spoon of milling chips and that fixed it. I put on a folding
stock and that m ade it m uch m ore fun and easier to ge t good groups.
mikey January 11th , 2004, 08:34 AM

The best 10/22 i ever used was m y m ates. It h ad an 18 inch m atch stainless bull barrel, match reciver, match trigger,
e x t e n d e d m a g a z i n e r e l e a s e , a c o m p e n s a t o r a n d h e h a d a t a s c o red dot site on it, personally i would have gone for a simm o n s
1.5-5 by 20, but it wa sn't m y gun. He uses it to com peat in practicle compentitons so has loads an d l o a d s o f s t e e l l i p p e d " h o t
lips" m ag, which i have never seen fail. In rega rds to amm o rugers can be very fussy on what they like. His will only shoot
"winchester wild cats" , but m y other m ates will only shoot "eley club" and "m atch". person ally thou gh i go for CCi "stinger" o r
" m i n i m a g " a s t h e y h a v e m o r e o f a p o k e t o t h e m . ow and before i forget m y m a t e s g u n h a s o n e o f t h o s e " D r a g u n o v S t y l e
S t o c k " t h e y m a k e t h e g u n r e a lly nice to handle. I think he got the gun from "rim fire m agic" in the uk.
www.rimfirem agic.co.uk
Bert January 12th , 2004, 12:13 AM

Keith-
You just adm itted to com miting a fede ral crime . You are an idiot.
keith January 12th , 2004, 12:46 AM

Actually, silencers are legal if it is only a hollow tube. You can by them legaly with no forms to sign out of m any catalogs in the
US. I used to have a "silencer" that wa s just a hollow tube and it worked fine, sam e princp a l o f g a s d i s p e r s i o n o v e r a l e n g t h e n d
period of tim e.
H u n d r e d s o f p e o p l e h a v e a d m itted to m aking illegal things. I think it is NBK who m a d e t h e t h r e a d a b o u t N G . H e h a s p i c s a n d
evre ything. You wouldnt dare call him any rude names. No balls Bert? If I had the tim e, Im pretty sure I could find som ething
y o u v e a d m itted too.

Take a careful look at my posts, Keith. I work with pyrotechnics as a professional, under ATFE licen se. And as far as insulting
NBK- He doesn't need it. Nor did he start the th read you refer to. Believe me, I'm calling you an idiot based on a lot m o r e t h a n
y o u b e i n g d u m b e n o u g h t o d e s c r i b e b u i l d i n g s o m ething illegal in the first person in an open forum . Please, take your "reflex
silencer" down to the regional ATFE office, tell them you built it and ask if it's O K with them . Please... You're young, ignorant,
TV brainwashed and won't listen to people who have experience. You think you're going to go off to the service and be a
glorious Am erican hero? You're going to have to smarte n u p d a m n f a s t o r b e c o m e a s t a t i s t i c . I k n o w t h e h o r m o n e s m a k e i t
hard, but try listening instead of talking for a while.
And if y'all want to use your 10-22 quietly, try getting some of the Aguila SSS rounds and an aftermarket barrel with a tight
enough twist to stabilize them (http://www.outd o o r g u i d e s . c o m / o u t d o o r / r u g 1 0 2 2 . h tm #Aguila barrels)
Those of you who think you know everything are particularly annoying to those of us who do.
edit: These guys have the barrels in stock. (http://www.rim firesp orts.com /m erchant.m v?
Screen=PROD&Store_C ode=RSC&Product_Code=VC 1 9 M Z 7 )
Rhadon January 12th , 2004, 10:47 AM

Y o u ' r e g o i n g t o h a v e t o s m a r t e n u p d a m n f a s t o r b e c o m e a statistic. He already is a statistic :D.
Speakle January 13th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 3 0 P M

I have a ruger 10/22 with the stainless barrel. A lot of fun for just plinking things. I have a clip loader that you snap the clips
o n t o a n d t h e re is a little butto n on the side and everytim e you press it a bullet gets loade d into the clip. Its nice to have when
l o a d ing up those 30rd clips. I think it is made by a company called eagle. It does jam a lot but I think its worth the $15-$20. I
f o u n d m ine at a local gun sho w.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Whats everyone got planned for new years eve?
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It w as bound to happen so I thought I may aswell start the thread. I personnaly have some illigal fireworks w hich include 15 red devil 2oz rockets with numerous effects such as
blue crackle stars or reports. 6x 15 shot roman candles, and 2x 20 shot candles. I also have some AP crackers that I will start to make on new years eve ( during the day) Then
I have a couple, not many silver rockets (home made) w ith maybe AP reports. But if the rocket doesn't go upwards...So I think i'll leave the AP payload out. Then there will be
some flares or something. Probably a 1kg smoke bomb. And if I am lucky a 200g APPN.
So what do you have planned for NYE?
Ammonal December 24th, 2003, 08:42 AM

I dont think I can pull it off - but my plan or more to the point 'hope' is to detonate as much of a bag of Nitram (AN) as possible. That is 50kg and I have just started a batch of
NG that will be initiated by a 0.5gram charge of tamped HMTD into a straw, inside a bottle of ~60mls NG if all goes well in the next couple of days. The bottle goes into the
middle of a round 20litre plastic oil drum w ith a loose cap sensitive ANFO mix poured therein, with a 50 meter length of coax and several strands (about a dozen) of steel wool
as the ignitor for the HMTD and a 12 volt tractor for the electric charge. I am hoping that the 60ml of NG will be sufficient to detonate the entire drum of ANFO. I dont know how
much ANFO mix I will be able to pour into the drum but just enough to fill it insitu and then place the Det/Booster charge into the middle via a piece of PVC pipe.
Also because of the noticed increase in expansive pow er of ANFO when detonated confined I have drilled a 1800mm deep hole that has a 600mm diameter that the drum w ill be
placed in. I wont be able to film but I certainly will get photos the next day even if nothing happens. I am hoping I get a fucking great crater - but I WILL be getting pissed after
midnight anyway so I figure I got nothing to lose apart from a days w ork refilling the crater :D

If you can do ANNM use a 2kg ANNM as a booster with the 60ml NG for the booster for the ANNM. For something this big you don't want it to fail! I think it was spydamonkey
who did the 10kg ANFO w ith a 1kg ANNM booster
If you can't do ANNM try and do some ammonia dynaminte. I am thinking as much as you can make with all that NG.

The loosely packed ANFO around the NG will be fine if it is finely powdered (el cheapo $20AUD coffee grinder). If it isn't powdered then you may have problems. If you have
about 2Kg of powdered ANFO then that will w ork fine to initiate the rest of the non-powdered stuff.
As a final note, If you have any extra AP, HMTD, or NG lying around, adding some APAN, HMTDAN, or AN dynamite to the booster should help it on it's w ay.
EDIT: blindreeper beat me to it, spydamonkee used a 1Kg APAN booster but that's a hell of a lot of AP to safely handle.
I won't be doing much this new years, as my friend who I do most pyro with is in Germany for another 2 weeks, when he gets back SWIM hopes to detonate some nice fat 1Kg
charges of cap sensitive ANFO under a few metres of water. SWIM may fire the cannon that SWIM made a few times though.
Ammonal December 24th, 2003, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, I was planning on using a food processor thingy that I picked up at a clearing sale for $2AU, it has a massive container, about 3-4 litres in capacity
and w orked a dream for some PN I threw in it for 5 mins after I bought it ad it came up nearly flour consistency. This should allow me to do 2-3 kg at a time for say 15 - 30
mins and see how that goes. As for the HMTD I just checked in my old bar fridge and there is a stored batch of about 30 - 40 grams in w ater. This and some fine, super fine
dryed AN should complement the 60gram NG well and as for NM, I can only source NM in 10% model airplane/car fuel mixture and it is too late to aquire some. NYE is still a
couple of days aw ay but I do know that I have another 720ml of Nitric acid left so... might have to raid the medicine cupboard for another 100mls glycerine. Another thing that I
can make is some RDX... cos I've got plenty of hexamine. Will the chances of a full detonation be better if I can synthesise say 100grams of RDX?
Once I get some electric detonators working 90% reliably I w ant to try some underw ater explosions; of course in my dreams ;)
A-BOMB December 24th, 2003, 12:13 PM

I'm getting a LAN game of Half-life mods going from dush till daw n. With a bunch of intermissions between rounds for some firey fun. And the grand finally I bought a small
surplus weather ballon(3' foot diameter) and a tank of Hydrogen and a tank of Oxygen. Plus a foot length of slow burn time fuse to be the igniter so that should be pretty cool.

Word of advice: light the timer fuse electricaly, not by hand. One of my two pyro related hospital visits was from something like that-
Personaly, I'm helping do a city New Year's Eve displays. One at 8:00 for the kiddies, and a bigger midnight display for the grow nups.

i'm afraid i'll be steering clear of pyrotechnics this new years eve, it's probably better considering the drunken state i'll be in.

Spending the night with my lady friend:) so I doubt anything bigger than some crackers w ill be set off.... oh, and lots and lots of booze.... boooze.... boooze.... :D
mongo blongo December 24th, 2003, 02:56 PM

I'm gona get as fucked up as possible. My liver is evil and I must punish it!

If all goes according to plan I will drink enough to forget w hat I got for christmas. I don't mean for that night forget, but entirely forget amnesia style. Then I will piss out pure
ethanol and make some mercury fulminate.
If all doesn't go to plan, I will just get really reeeeeeeeeealy smashed.
There will be no pyrotechnics, I doubt my friend would enjoy seeing things being lit in his back yard as he's slumped over in a drunken stupor.

i'll be doing as mongo is. except i won't be punishing my liver i'll be giving it some good healthy strenuous exercise :D

Ah, to be young and strong. I haven't got plow ed on New Year's Eve or the 4th of July for something like 15 years. On the other hand, I haven't gone w ithout setting off major
pyro on those days either... By the time teardown is over, I have no energy to drink and it's the next day anyw ay.

you don't look that old on your photo. you don't need energy to drink. just some alcohol to drink :)
NERV December 24th, 2003, 07:44 PM

I am most likely going to get drunk and high, then run through the streets yelling obscene words at anyone w ho w alks by .

I think I'll light some sparklers ;)
matjaz December 25th, 2003, 06:04 AM

Sparklers will do the job. Every jerk goes bang on the New Year's eve. Real men go bang all arround the year. ;)
Anyway, may the sum of all thy limbs, eyes, fingers remain a constant in 2004!

I plan on going out with some friends, having fun and chatting up some fine ladies.
zaibatsu December 28th, 2003, 03:15 PM

I'll be spending some time with a lady friend in Paris, most likely very drunk, high and in a jazz club
green beret December 28th, 2003, 08:36 PM

Hi all, I'm going to be letting off some comercial pyro, a box of 12 1.75" Shells, some 5 shot 1" candles w ith varying effects, some smaller (but louder ;) 8 shot candles, some
large 100m approx range rockets, large multishots, and some other bits and pieces, plus some KN03 smoke bombs, and Kn03/Al/S fountains. Maybe I'll hear some of you. ;) Or
you'll hear me!
Trinitrotoluene December 29th, 2003, 12:52 AM

I can't do anything related to pyrotechnics due to the state of mind I'll be in. But during new years I'm going to be stoned, yup I'm going to smoke alot of pot. I'm also getting
drunk, yeah booze!
Haggis December 29th, 2003, 02:34 AM

What I have planned is 180 g APAN (30-150). Also, I have 200 g of offcolored AN lying around so I added a bit of charcoal and acetone for a 200-20-1 mix of AN, acetone,
charcoal. I don't really care if the second charge goes or not, if it does, it'll be a nice suprise. If not, 180g APAN isn't anything to sneeze at. I have just to place it in a can, and a
large soup can will probably do. I will be on a beach at midnight, so I'll probably did a hole w ith a posthole digger, light it, and drop it down. It's fun to think about playing in the
crater. Heh. Enjoy the new year, forumites, and keep your appendages attached.
Mike76251 December 29th, 2003, 03:04 AM

It is a good time to fire off that weapon you have been building as at the stroke of 12 around here most everyone in the section 8 housing projects (welfare cribs) fires off one
too.
The cops ignore them all since there are too many to respond to.

I can't wait, I have a nice batch of crackers in the process of being made, my sulfur is on the way, I have finally got all my stuff for stars...ready to start w orking on them....so I
can finally do my mortars and candle... :) Maybe have a go at a multibreak heh

I want to do a nice HE charge and have about 2kg of powdered KNO3 fertilizer. It has no coating on the fertilizer so its fairly pure. I also have 2.5L of NM. I wanted to do a big
charge say, 500g of PNNM like on Shockw aves site. He used a 90g APAN booster for a 1.25kg charge of PNNM so I w as wondering w hat sort of booster should I be using? I only
have about 50g of AN left which will only get a 60g APAN booster, but I have heaps of KNO3. Would APPN be a suitable booster? I don't think it will be but if anyone has any
experience with this please reply.

APPN w on't work because unlike AN, KNO3 doesn't detonate. The only reason that APPN is more pow erful than straight AP is because of the KNO3 providing oxygen to even out
the oxygen balance.
You could use an ANNM booster, it would be larger and more pow erful than an APAN one. Or you could add a strong acid, a strong base, or an amine to 100mL of NM and use
the newly sensitized NM as a booster.
Anthony December 29th, 2003, 07:02 AM

No point using an ANNM booster in PNNM - it's essentially the same thing!
A 1-2gm AP or HMTD det should be fine, at least it alw ays has been in my experience. You could play it safe and use 5-10gm if you want to be really sure.
As long as your KNO3 is powdered and dried, and you're using pure NM, PNNM is quite sensitive.

The KNO3 is dry and the NM is pure stuff. It goes purple when it comes in contact with AN because of the dye they put in modle fuels to show if they are too sensative to be
used. For some reason I don't like HMTD, so I think I'll stick w ith good ol' AP. A film can (pressed) should be about 10g. What ratio of KNO3 to NM do you use Anthony? I know
Shockw ave uses 1000g of KNO3 to 250ml of NM.

Sorry about that Anthony, I knew ANNM was cap sensitive, and assumed that PNNM wasn't from what blindreeper said about the 90g booster.
I don't know w hy I assumed that though, as now that you say it I can clearly remember a thread where you detonated cap sensitive PNNM inside a "triple 'ard" tree :) .
Dave Angel December 30th, 2003, 02:48 PM

SWIM will be using the likely fireworks going on around as a cover to test some double salts caps, 30g of TNP, some ANNMAL, and possibly even an oxy-mapp balloon or two
(with anti static spray).
scarletmanuka January 3rd, 2004, 10:21 AM

Surely everyone know s that chinese new year is the time for your DIY pyro extrordinnaire. Although it would be hard explaining that to your anglo neibghours. Besides I spnt the
NY in singapore, w here I w ouldn't risk any DIY pyro. Although I did pay a visit to Orchard Tower.. thats enogh entertainment for one night/morning.

Funny, I've just realised that the model fuel NM that I used didn't have any colour indicator like you mentioned.
I could be wrong, but I'd think that a film can of pressed AP w ould be considerably more than 10gm. Loose I think it'd be about 10gm
I use the same ratio for all NM explosives - 20% NM to oxidiser. So 800gm XNO3 + 200gm NM. Although for a while I think I might have accidentally added 20% of the total
oxidiser e.g. 1000gm XNO3 + 200gm NM. Which is obviously a lower NM ratio, but I never had any duds.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The origin of the Grinch.
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View Full Version : The origin of the Grinch.

Most people are familar with the word "Grinch", being associated with a codgerly green-furred creature that lives in a cave and hates christmas, but that, in the end, comes to
love it after being taught the spirit of giving.
Awwwww....touching story...but that's not what a Grinch really is.
Virtually no one knows it, but the author of the Dr. Suess books was a student of old english mythology at Harvard, and that mythology was an inspiration for many of his
stories.
The word "Grinch" is actually a contraction of old galech, "Grin 'ach", meaning "Smiling Demon".
While the exact nature of the Grinch isn't known with certainty, it's possible to infer from the large amount of stories in irish and scottish folklore, the countries from which the
Grinch seems to have originated from, certain aspects of its behavior.
The green fur commonly mentioned in folklore is likely an evolutionary adaptation to the grassy hills of that region, allowing the Grinch to blend in with it's surroundings.
Whether the Grinch's fur is actually green, or a symbiotic coating of green moss as is found in some species of sloths, or whether it is fur at all, is unknown.
From the association of the Grinch with christmas, as well as common references to how the Grinch is only seen during nighttime hours, would imply that the Grinch is a
nocturnal creature.
Given how the winter solstice, the longest night of the year, is only a week away from christmas, the association with christmas becomes obvious, as any nocturnal creature
would be most frequently active during this time.
Also, unlike the Grinch from the Dr. Suess stories, the Grinch in galech folklore was a decidedly unpleasant creature to encounter, as it was a predator.
Many stories about the Grinch ended with relatives, arriving late for christmas, finding the entire family as piles of bones contained within the sack of their intact skins, hidden
around the house in various dark places, such as closets and underneath beds. This is also likely the orgin of such common folklore sayings as "Skeleton in the closet" and
"Monsters under the bed".
Some people in old times had come close to the Grinch and survived to pass on what they had seen, as the Grinch apparently only attacks when it is alone with its victim,
rather than when in a group as is common during family holidays.
From these few reports, it would seem that the Grinch has the ability to mimic it's previous victims appearance. This would appear impossible, requiring some kind of mimicing
ability.
However, when you consider how the skins of victims have been found totally intact, head to toe, the reason for this is obvious...the Grinch takes the skin of its prey as its
own.
It would appear that since the bones are still inside the skin, and not expelled, that the Grinch doesn't have a rigid skeleton of it's own, but rather a invertibrate body that
allows it to flow into the space left behind inside of the skin once the organs and flesh are devoured.
The people who encountered the Grinch in its disguised form always noticed how the Grinch never spoke words, only imitating the sounds of those around it, such as laughter.
This is entirely possible since parrots can imitate even speech, though something as complex as speech is beyond the capability of non-human lifeforms.
Given all these clues, the following scenario would seem plausible to explain these stories:
People would travel by carriage from the city to their family homes in the country for christmas. When they inevitably stopped at some point to relieve themselves, one of the
party would be attacked and assimilated by the Grinch, which would assume their appearance.
The Grinch, seeking further prey, would then travel with the others, perhaps laughing when others laughed, but otherwise being silent. This would simply be passed off as a
bad mood.
Upon arrival at the home, the Grinch would then simply wait until someone left the safety of the group, whereupon they would be attacked and assimilated, the discarded skin
of the previous victim being hidden in a dark place where it'd likely not be quickly discovered, such places being under the bed or a closet.
The newly assimilated Grinch would then return to the group to watch for another opportunity to attack.
The cycle would repeat itself until either the last person was consumed, no doubt wondering where everyone else went to, or the last few people realized something was
terribly wrong, at which point the Grinch would either flee (shedding it's disguise) and disappear into the surrounding wilderness, or attack the last few remaining victims and
finishing them off.
While no Grinch has ever been found, probably because of it's highly evolved camouflage and unexpected nature, there are a few interesting possibilities that come to mind.
My personal theory is that the Grinch was a highly evolved form of slime mold. Being amorphous, slime mold would be able to flow into the voids of a hollowed-out corpse.
This would also explain the green color noted by the few eyewitness accounts that have been attributed to fur.
As a mold, it would be highly vulnerable to damage, so as a predator it would have to attack its prey using stealth to ambush it, minimizing risk to its fragile body.
Being a mold would also explain its nocturnal nature, as sunlight is lethal to molds. Caves, as mentioned in the childrens story, would be a perpetually dark enviroment in which
a mold could thrive.
Mold also typically emit noxious odors. This would explain the "Stink, Stank, Stunk" line from the song about the Grinch. Though no mention is made by the eyewitnesses of
there being any unusual odors present. Perhaps the odor was being contained by the bag of skin that the Grinch was wearing at the time.
Given the large number of sheep found in the region, it would seem likely that the frequent predation of the sheep could be at least partially explained by a predator other than
wolves, a nearly extinct species in that region, a "wolf" that could literally dress in sheeps clothing (skin) and approach a flock without alarming it, picking off the stragglers
while all the while living amoungst them.
It's a curious fact that there's almost as many pigs as sheep being raised there, yet there's no reports of consumtion of the pig flesh by a possible Grinch, perhaps because the
Grinch considers them too unclean to eat, even though it apparently will kill swine for sport.
How the Grinch transferred its prey model from sheep to humans I'll leave as an exercise for the reader. ;)
If such an intelligent form of predatory slime mold existed, it would require an entirely new classification to describe it.
I would call the newly discovered mold Naturalus B. Killium, to descibe both it's natural (not man-made) orgin, as well as its predatory nature.
+++++++++++++++
Hope you like the above story. I had a horrible nightmare that had me waking up shaking and panting about the above kind of "Grinch", in just the kind of scenario I
described, so I thought I'd share it with you. :)
Naturally, being a dream, I lived a whole night with the Grinch as it was picking off my dream family, until I was the only one left, at which point it pounced and started
slithering down my throat! :eek: This is the point I woke up gasping. Turns out I had a pillow over my face (I live alone :p), which would explain the gasping part.
Imagine the Grinch as the shape-shifting creature from the movie "The Thing", your home as the antarctic base, and you've got an idea of what I was dreaming about.
I could make one hell of a "Tales from the Crypt" episode out of it, let me tell you, but I think someone would likely sue me if I did. ;)
Notice all the little references I made to "wolf in sheeps clothing", "hiding in plain sight", sheep and pigs, etc. Layers upon layers...

Brilliant.
And a happy New Year!
xyz January 4th, 2004, 10:23 AM

NBK, one little question...
How exactly would it fit the flesh of, say, 5 victims into the skin of a single victim? i.e. it eats/kills/absorbs/whatever 5 members of the family and hides their skin and bones,
how does it fit into the 6th skin if it contains the volume of 5 people?
Anthony January 4th, 2004, 01:10 PM

T'would make a good christmas film... Next year maybe?

" The Grinch who stole christmas (And the flesh of the living)" Rated R
Zykaz January 4th, 2004, 10:21 PM

That would definitely be strange. Imagine that mold devouring your mother on the way home on Christmas Eve, your father is driving the rest of the way home while you try
to hold a conversation with your mother, but she can't talk because you are actually talking to the skin of your mother held together by mold. And then later on your left alone
with your mother, and the mold seeps out of your mother's poors, and then goes inside your mouth, ears, nose, etc, any way it can get in, and eats your insides while you
stand there and look at the skin of your mother on the ground.
Creepy...
If the mold opened its victim's mouth to laugh, when it was mimicing the person, then wouldn't there just be an empty space, or just the mold? Or it could possibly leave the
tongue, teeth, and throat intact. But then when the Grinch laughed, the sound would kind of echo up the throat.
Al Koholic January 4th, 2004, 11:02 PM

With regards to the question by xyz...
I have to imagine that the only way this would be possible would be if the Grinch was able to extract chemical energy from protien, fat, and carbohydrate very rapidly and
efficiently. Most of a victim could for example, be reduced to CO2, O2, N2, and H2O and the resulting energy could be used by the Grinches cellular organization to convert a
previously partially depleted energy reserv back into an active form. This would be like ATP in "normal" life. All the matter the Grinch really ever would need would already be
there and it would just need to be reorganized into more energetic forms every so often. If this process occured rapidly enough, it would mean the Grinch could remain basically
the same size.
Additionally, the Grinch, finding an odd-sized victim, could probably decide to consume only part of it if it wasn't large enough at the time to fit. Assuming the Grinch came upon
someone too small, perhaps, like a fungus, it could sustain the loss of a portion of its mass however, I doubt this would be profitable for the Grinch and it would be interesting
to see if there are reports of a minimum victim size.
I'm just going to guess that the "husks" the Grinch leaves behind aren't as was implied (very clean bags) and are actually filled with considerable "leftovers". Clearly the Grinch
does not attack eyes, tongue, repiratory system, etc, etc, otherwise it would be noticed by the other members of the group. Perhaps aunt sally isnt talking sure, but why is her
tongue missing and how can she laugh without lungs etc. This brings up another more important point. The Grinch may infact, not immedeatly consume much of it's victim at
all. I am now proposing that the Grinch might actually be some form of lesser organized yet still intelligent slime. Upon attacking a host/victim, it would simply enter the body,
inhabit some of the spaces in the body and use the body's existing mechanics for locomotion, respiration, heat, moisture, etc. This would imply that the Grinch somehow has
the ability to enter and control in an organized fashion, the hosts brain and to some extent, lower cognitive/perceptive capabilities. If this is a slime, it will definetly need the
hosts ears to hear and the hosts auditory nerve/brain structures to know when to laugh etc.
All this however, flies in the face of the Grinch actually even having hair at all. I suspect that a possible explanation may sit nicely with the theory I have eleborated on. It is
possible that because the Grinch commonly preys on sheep that this is the "shell" it is wearing most frequently when it is seen.
Using a sheep as a means of getting to and fro has benefits for the Grinch. Firstly, it can travel day or night. Secondly, it will go unnoticed and if it were seen, it would likely be
picked up and corraled with other sheep...more food. This way, it wouldn't even have to hunt and to some extent, has entered a symbiotic, commensalist relationship with
humans that is facilitating its predation of sheep.
Finally, I also theorize that the Grinch, while having the capability to oxidize food verry rapidly, can also let its current host "last a while". By this I mean that the Grinch can
either conduct a high speed burn off of its host or can inhabit it for quite some time while either slowly eating it, or just lingering for a while in wait of another. Using the body
of another for protection is highly advantageous as the internal environment of a warm-blooded animal is perfect for a fungus. Perhaps sheep are inhabited for a very long time
on an occasional basis and the Grinch, traveling all around in the sheep, causes the sheep to get very dirty, not groom itself, wander where sheep shouldn't (caves, swamps,
etc) and over this course, the sheep could in fact begin to look green. This degraded sheep would be such a far cry from the way sheep normally look that it would be easy to
mistake it for another creature, specifically a green grinch at dusk/night.
This is all making way too much sense for my benefit.
IDTB January 5th, 2004, 12:36 AM

It's a curious fact that there's almost as many pigs as sheep being raised there, yet there's no reports of consumtion of the pig flesh by a possible Grinch, perhaps because the
Grinch considers them too unclean to eat, even though it apparently will kill swine for sport.
Could he possibly be more jewish? ;)

Oh please IDTB, let's not turn this into yet ANOTHER religion/ethnic thread. :mad:
IDTB January 5th, 2004, 10:57 PM

It was a light-hearted joke, chill out. I'm unaware of any religion/ethnic threads. Perhaps the title turned me off to reading into it, but I'll assure you; I didn't mean anything of
it. If you find it necessary the post and the posts relating to my post may very well be deleted.

I thought Vulture was joking!
Assuming point, though.
nbk2000 January 7th, 2004, 10:58 AM

If we wanted to get X-Files about this, I'd say that the Grinch would rapidly consume the flesh of the victim, converting the tissue into more of itself, and leaving behind all the
excess mass as a puddle of digested slop.
When it transferred into a new victim, the Grinch could leave the majority of its newly aquired mass behind inside the "bag o' skin" that was it's prior abode, and transfer only
its core (spore) self into the new victim.
In fact, the Grinch could actually be quite small, as it would be more like an infection, in being self-replicating, transforming the mass of it's host into more of itself and, when
needed (no more flesh to feed on), excreting a "spore" that can survive exposure outside of a host body and that has limited mobility.
As for sensorium, it wouldn't need to hijack the hosts sensory organs, which would likely be impossible for such a rudimentary life form to assimilate the information supplied by
such evolved senors as human eyes, as very simple senses could by used to aquire more prey. Movement, light/dark contrast, vibrations, smell, etc, are all quite rudimentary
in insect and even fungal life forms, and would be more than adequate to the task.
The spore could lay semi-dormant inside of a host, using a kind of mind control through the secretion of narcotic or endorphin analogs into its host to keep it in a dazed state of
euphoria. This would account for the common state around christmas of unnaturally cheerful behavior. Also, by narcotizing the host, the pain that would otherwise be causing it
to contort into a death rictus as its innards were being consumed, is negated.
The host body would continue to run on automatic pilot, as it were, as the higher brain functions died off from the lack of nutrients/oxygen as the Grinch used it all for it's own
survival. Only the most primitive parts of the brain, that concerned with maintaining respiration and heartbeat, would survive the reduction of bodily support, much as how
brain-dead coma victims can still breath on their own, so too would Grinch victims still be "alive" even if they are brain-dead.
Al Koholic, your theory of sheep being a reservoir for the Grinch parasite would be well in keeping with the reports.
The finding of rotted sheep carcasses in swampy areas would naturally be assumed to be from the natural decomposition of a sheep that wandered off, got stuck in the mire,
and died. The reality may be that the sheep was already dead, and decomposing, when the Grinch finally took off its sheep coat, having found a suitable enviroment in which
to exist without a host animal.
It may also be that the Grinch has tranferred its prey model to humans in more recent times, not due to bestiality committed by lonely sheep herders, but due to the
extermination of its usual host because of recent hoof and mouth disease purges in western european countries.
With the mass extermination of sheep, there'd be no sheep for the Grinch to survive in, with the only mammals big enough to host it in rural areas being humans.
The existance of a Grinch parasite would also explain the outbreaks of human "Living Dead" that have occasionally been reported.
Cemetarys are perfect enviroments for fungus to survive in, being moist and dark, and constantly warm in certain parts of the world, or if it's in a sun-heated crypt.
The Grinch would remain dormant in such places until such time as a fresh body comes in contact with it, having been placed in a crypt or shallow grave. Given how most
bodies are not embalmed in third-world countries and in poorer regions of western nations, it would provide a source of food for the sporant form of the Grinch, allowing it to
become active again.
The now active form of Grinch would then likely seek to reproduce itself, having been dormant for so long, and so would use it's host body to mobilitate itself about looking for
fresh prey.
Because the body was already dead when the Grinch took it over, the neurological
connections of the brain and nervous system would have been degraded, which means that the Grinch would need a source of new neurotransmitter chemicals in order to
properly control the host body.
This fits in perfectly with the reported behaviour of the "Living Dead": Staggering, uncoordinated movement, rigidity of the arms and legs, and (most tellingly) eating of brain
tissue in their victims (to aquire neurotransmitters).
There are conflicting reports as to whether those who are bitten, in turn, die and become "Living Dead", or whether the freshly killed and brain-eaten remain dead. Either one
could be true, depending on the state of the Grinch's reproduction cycle at the time of the victims death.
The existance of the Grinch could, in fact, be a key to explaining much of the phenomena that is currently unexplainable by science and called "quack science", while having
entirely natural and explainable origins in a naturally occuring mold/fungus.
IDTB, it may be that the Grinch was orginally of middle-eastern orgin, as sheep were not a naturally occuring animal in the wales/scotland region, having been imported by the
Romans during their occupation of the british isles. So it is entirely possible that the Grinch originated from the area of palestine, where even the bible makes many references
to the existance of sheep. Oi! :p
Efraim_barkbit January 7th, 2004, 07:12 PM

The documentary movie "resident evil", wich has been released in a slightly edited version, is telling the story of an incident in a secret research facility a couple of years ago,
where the US governement breeds grinches, as a part of a new type of biological weapon.
The behaviour of large number of grinches can be observed, and the symptoms mentioned by nbk, wich the host animals, in this case humans, experience is clearly seen, such
as "Staggering, uncoordinated movement", basicly appearing as "living dead".
unfortunately, they have not managed to videotape the host changing procedure, and the scientists who where involved in those particular experiments tragically did not
survive the "incident", wich led to the making of the documentary.
in fact, nobody did.
thats yet another very good example of the supreme predatory skills possessed by the grinch.
As documented in said film, When an animal(human) is bitten by a grinch infected host, it continues to function normally for a period of time, before it to starts shoving
symptomes.
By this, one can assume that the grinches keep a "supply" of fertile eggs, or spores, wich when entering a fresh host, hatches, and due to well evolved instincts, it makes its
way to the hosts brain, where it takes controll. after infection, but before the juvenile grinch has taken full controll, the victim can experience spasmic movement of limbs, as
well as severe headaches. at this stage, it is almost certainly beyond rescue.
It is very hard to kill a grinch, and I do not think that there is an effective method for it, however, some strong cytotoxins is reported to at least be able to disable its ability to
effectively transfer into a new host.
It can also be used as a "antidote" when a person has been bitten, but it has to be injected into the blood stream before the juvenile grinch has reached the brain, most likely
within 1-3 hours after the bite.
The most used, and reliable way to stop a grinchcontrolled host is by severe brain trauma, wich is most safely achieved with a well placed gunshot.
EDIT: made a clarification. (read more in my next post in this thread)
chemwarrior January 7th, 2004, 07:56 PM

Ive never heard of Reisdent Evil being a documentary of anything.....
Who knows? Maybe its yet another cover up story...
*Cue X-Files music*

Resident evil had nothing to do with grinches...
It was based on a videogame series of the same name and it is a mutagenic virus that causes the "zombies", not grinches...
They were supposedly working on the virus to bring people back from the dead but it was accidentally released inside the facility before they had all the kinks worked out.
Efraim_barkbit January 8th, 2004, 07:13 AM

Thats what you think xyz, but no, the actual incident involved grinches, but, because the US governement didnt want to cause panic, and be forced to admitt the existence of
their secret bioweapons program, they made the movie company to edit it, and they halted its release a couple of years.
The version released was the edited version, and that is probably the version the majority of you have seen.
The reason the movie was released at all is to undermine the credability of eventuall future facts about the incident that might get picked up by movie makers over the years,
as well as the credibility of eventuall witnesses.
Because one of the makers of the documentary kept a copy of the original, He was able to upload it on to a private server, before he "disappeared", together with the rest of
the film team. It is possible to get it, if you have the right connections. otherwise, I would say it is almost impossible to get the complete film, however, pieces of it is awailible
with a little bit of hard searching.
Dureing the delay of the release of the documentary, The US governement had time to hire a company to make a video game, with the same theme as the upcoming
documentary, to undermine its credibility even more. People would just pass it on as yet another "zombie movie", and the "real" movie, if it ever got out, would be looked
upon with sceptisism.
McGyver January 8th, 2004, 07:55 PM

This story is reminiscent to Stephen King's "Dreamcatcher"
festergrump December 16th, 2004, 08:51 PM

The real Grinch NBK spoke of sounds somewhat close some description in a book I read about a "Djinn" (also "djinni" or "djini") in Germany. It was so long ago I can not for
the life of me remember the title of the book or most of the plot. I remember some similar features and habits, though. It was rather creepy... as is NBK's depiction of the
grinch in his dreams.
Anyway, it's that time of year again so I thought I'd bring this back to surface.
Festergrinch says: Read the original post in this thread to your kids before they go to bed on Christmas eve! They won't be too sure about waking you and the misses up at
4:30 AM to see what Santa brought them. More than likely you'll have to pry them from bed to show them it's ok to go downstairs and that Santa's body won't be a pile of
skin and bones beneath their stockings...with you being silent and merely smiling. :D
Ropik December 17th, 2004, 01:39 PM

Efraim_barkbit, have you seen the non-edited video or do you know where to find it? I would like to see this...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > W hat does RTPB m ean?
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View Full Version : What does RTPB mean?

I a m sure this is som ething obvious and dumb, but i've searched the forum , a n d g o o g l e , a n d w a s u n a b l e t o f i n d a n y t h i n g .
W hat does it stand for?
Chances are i'll kick myself.
Thanks.
Efraim_barkbit D e c e m ber 25th, 2003, 08:23 AM

RTPB= Rules To Profit By
y o u s h o u l d c h a n g e y o u r s i g , t h e m a x i m u m is three lines. it is clearly stated in the forum rules.

P e r h a p s s o m eone was too lazy to search the Forum first? They're only mentioned in 118 threads h ere, with m a n y u s i n g t h e
whole title. :rolleyes:
D i d s o m e o n e m iss the topic started by thrall asking the very same thing just a few days ago? :mad:

Do a search and you get just about every other thread here, covering just about everthing.
I did overlook it (Thrall's recent thread ) in the m assive list of search results, although the question isn't specifically asked in
that thread, i should have found the file, and the question would have ta ken care of itself.
Thanks.
I'll fix the sig right away.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Military Amm o C a s e
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View Full Version : Military Ammo Case

Curious to see, if it would be safe to carry ap crackers and other explosives in a military am m o c a s e . . . y o u k n o w t h e o n e s t h a t
fasten down with latches...I have a HUGE one that was used for transporting som e type of big roun d...not sure what kind of
round...but some old casings were in there, and they are huge...105's I think. I figured it would be safer th an leaving them in
a bucket or something in the car for traveling to a det zone...
McGyver D e c e m ber 27th, 2003, 05:59 PM

W ell since its m ade from metal... what do you think?
1. Static electricity
2. More massive shra pnel
does that answer your questio n?

W ell I figured since they carried 105m m am m o in it...th at it m ust be safe...maybe I was wrong ind e e d .
PHA I D D e c e m ber 27th, 2003, 06:49 PM

The differance is that m ilitary munitions are m ade to be " GI proof" which basicly means they are m a d e t o t a k e e x t r e a m l y
rough treatm ent without detonation.
C-4 is a good example, You can burn it shoot it and throw it around without m uch worry.
Y e s y o u c a n m a k e i t d e t o n a t e if you light it and then hit it hard but overall its very stable.

T h a n k s . . . I ' m pretty sure I won't use th at box to carry explosives...m i g h t b e g o o d f o r s u p p l i e s a n d o t h e r e q u i p m e n t f o r
detonation though...
wrench352 D e c e m ber 27th, 2003, 10:22 PM

well,how would one transport caps to a test site?I had aways intended to pack the m i n s a n d i n a n 7 . 6 2 c a n , m u c h s m aller than
flashpoints can.A shoebox or shipping tubes packed with sand.
Recently a fedex truck that was carrying blasting caps,for the m ilitary, was hit by a ford explorer,straight on the diesal tank,this
was no m inor accident.The caps were buried in sand in what appeared to be 55 gallon drum s . A l t h o u g h s o m e o f t h e c a p s
detonated,and the truck was destroyed,m ost of the caps rem ained intact.Im sure they werent using AP caps tho.
THErAPIST D e c e m ber 27th, 2003, 11:31 PM

Acco rding to m e military anuals, DDNP and PETN are the m o s t c o m m only used things in m ilitary caps. DDNP is one of the m ore
stab le primaries though. Ever seen those nice litte bulle t boxes? Caps are frequently carried in something like those (by
m ining comp anies). Its a plastic trey with holes in it thats slid into a sma ll m e t a l b o x . T h e caps are simply set in the holes in
the trey.
I have kept Ap crackers in a thick ass (4m m thick) steel first aid kit. I had an AP cracker go off in the can once and the case
got quite bent,,, so now if you cn imag ine that if there were say... 10 more in there, the case owuld have become a box bom b .

Caps are frequently carried in something like those (by mining companies). Its a plastic trey with holes in it thats slid into a
s m a ll m e t a l b o x . T h e caps are simply set in the holes in the trey.
That is exactly what I have...I had plastic trey's and some type of plastic cover for the actual am munition.
wrench352 D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 01:12 AM

I n a n a m m o c a n , I d t h i n k m ore than two caps would be pushing your luck,with hom e m a d e A P o r f u l m i n a t e c a p s , b u t
realistically,h ow m any at any one given time co uld you really need.What about ca rd board shipping tubes,the large variety or
m aybe an igloo coole r,again filled with sand.Th e i g l o o c o o l e r s e e m s the m ost pra ctical.Pla stic shrapnel can be as bad as
m etal.If you have to m o v e a l a r g e n u m b e r o f c a p s a t o n e t i m e h o w b o u t a 5 g a l l o n b u c k e t,$3.00,filled to the top with
sand,and sealed.It would be a heavy son of a bitch though,and therefore a whole new set of problem s.
Anath D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 01:59 AM

I've always just used an old 6-pack esky (styrofoam cooler), with a block of styrofoam glued to the inside of it & 12 holes
m elted into the styrofoam for the deto nators. I have a large lot of small polypropylene test-tubes (sam pling vials?) i use as
d e t o n a t o r s h e l l s , a n d I h a v e n ' t h a d o n e go off unexpectedly yet. I doubt there would be much in the way of life-threatening
shra pnel anyway. YMMV with m etal detonators!
Blackhawk D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 05:22 AM

I u s e s o m e o f t h e s e a m m o b o x e s t o s t o r e c o m mercial reloads for rocket m otors, although I was a lso think i n g a l o n g t h e l i n e s
of how if anything in them did indeed detonate they would probably just add to the shrapnel, as th e lid is m arvelously secured
and heavy rubber seals make the things very air tight, perfect casing conditions. I suppose their idea is to stop the things in
t h e m d e t o n a ting in the first place not to contain the explosion, for instance they could tak e quite a beating and are totaly
waterproof, they also 'm a y ' h e l p k e e p t h i n g s i n s i d e t h e m safe when im m ersed in fire, alth ough I think they would m ore likely
turn into larg e m ill-spec ovens.
Cyclonite D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 01:39 PM

A sa nd filled OPEN am m o can works great for transportation of sm aller explosives. I have stuck a blasting cap in a closed
a m m o c a n a n d i t b u s t e d o p e n t h e s i d e s a n d c o r n e r p i e c e s o f t h e c a n . T h e only reason to carry an explosive in a clo s e d m etal
can is when the EMR hazard is greater than the HE haza rd. The closed can protects the item from EMR.

Thanks...I suppose I'll use a few buckets filled with sand. Maybe a painters bucket, that's about 1-2 gallons.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Hackthissite.org
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OK, I have started this thread to serve a sim ila r purpose to the Astrowars thread that we had a while back.
It is for mem bers to learn about what hackthissite.org is and to post their scores etc.
Basically, it is a bunch of sim u l a t e d l e v e l s a n d m issions where you have to hack into parts of the website with varyin g d e g r e e s
of difficulty.
So far, I am up to level 8 in the Basic W e b H a c k i n g a n d level 2 in the Re alistic Missions. Please note that I am new to web
h a c k i n g s o m e m bers such as Nihilist should be able to do much better.
Flake2m D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 11:31 AM

W ell i started doing this, I am up to level 5 in webhacking and I have com pleted the 2nd realistic m ission. I have 65 points so
far
Anath D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 02:13 PM

I figured I m ight as well have a go..
Realistic Missions [ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ]

Basic Web Hacking [ 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 ]
Application C hallenge s [ 1,2,3 ,4,5,6 ]
Anath
R a n k e d 3 9 o f 29997 users with 1570 points.
Not too difficult so far, I'm loo king forward to actually finding som e juicy exploits in the site's code itself. :)
edited to update & make it a little less space-consum ing.
The A narch D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 11:16 PM

I'm up to level 3 in Basic Web Hacking and 2 in R ealistic Missions. Yeah, i've never hacked before.
xyz D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 11:20 PM

D a m n Anath...
I have now p a s s e d m issions 2 and 3 a n d a m r a n k e d 2 0 3 9 o f 2 9 928 users with 185 points.
I would highly recom mend this site for anyone who is interested in learning about web hacking, they have some excellent info
and articles on there and the challenges are a very good way to learn web hacking.
Nihilist D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 11:53 PM

Cool site xyz. I've finished all of the basic web hacking challenges, and i've done 2 of the realistic missions. I'm r a n k e d 2 0 3 9
too....weird.
chemwarrior D e c e m ber 29th, 2003, 03:48 AM

Its quite obvious that Im not a hacker... I cannt even get past the first level ! Anyone care to help me see what Im m i s s i n g ?
NVM, I figure d it out. it was the first thing I tried too, bu t mozilla w a s b e i n g a n a s s .

Nihilist, I WAS ranked 2039, I would have m oved ranks since then (new people im proving or me im proving).
E D I T : Y e a h , I a m n o w r a n k e d 2 0 4 9 o f 2 9 9 8 9 . M u s t b e a l l y o u f o rum ites learning about the site and then doing better than m e
:p .
W a s a n y o n e e l s e a b l e t o g e t t h e 2 0 p o i n t b o n u s i n l e v e l 3 (level 3 of the realistic m i s s i o n s ) f o r s e n d i n g t h e h a c k e r ' s n a m e t o

the site owner? Getting the na me is fairly easy but needs a bit o f thorough searching.
Nihilist D e c e m ber 29th, 2003, 05:27 PM

I have now com pleted the all basic web hacking m issions, all realistic missions, except the last one, and the first 5 application
c h a l l e n g e s . I a m now ranked 70 out of 30,131
Cyclonite D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 04:27 AM

I know nothing of hacking but am interested. How would I get started, I have no clue how to pass the first basic level (The idiot
test). Any he lp would be appreciated
zaibatsu D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 07:40 AM

l o a d up the level 1 page making sure you're logged in and read the source code it's very clearly th ere.
Hang-Man D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 09:52 PM
Yep. I suck at this aswell. I got to lv 5 pretty fa st but now I'm stuck. I'm trying to brute force m y way into that Nazi web page
but so far no luck.
T_Pyro D e c e m ber 30th, 2003, 09:55 PM

Xyz, did you by any chance check the url's of the images in level 3? (I think it's a hint!)
I've got a na me, and a page with some really interestin g code related to a certain link there! So, am I on the right track?
Oh, and thanks a mil for telling us about this site- it's great!
EDIT: Yup, I was right! :D Tha t's a big hint to e veryone. I got the bonus, but haven't been able to com plete the actual
obje ctive:confused:
xyz D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 05:42 AM

T_Pyro, yes, I also got the bonus and anyone who uses a bit of patience and com mon sense should be able to find it.
H a n g - M a n , Y ou won't get far trying to brute force that :p . Read som e inform ation about SQL Injections.
Hang-Man D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 10:34 AM

Read! to hell with that. beside s, Burtus is allm o s t d o n e . O n l y 8 m o n t h s r e m aining....;)

Errr.... Well good luck anyway, I don't even think there is a usernam e a n d p a s s w o r d , I ( a n d e v e r y o n e e l s e I k n o w ) u s e d a n
SQL injection to trick the form into returining a false positive.
T_Pyro D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 11:36 AM

Xyz, were you able to finish th e 2nd or the 3rd pasword app challenge? I got the first, hex editor reveals all, but I think the
o t h e r s r e q u i r e s o m e d i s a s s e m bly. I sp ent an hour or two reversing some conditional jump statem ents, and eventually got the
app to say: "The password is <whatever you had typed>" Dam n!
nbk2000 D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 01:01 PM

It'd be interesting to see if this was a "honeypot" sting to trap hacker wannabe's...
wrench352 D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 05:50 PM

or a recruitment site for top scorers
Nihilist D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 06:57 PM

It is neither, the site clearly states that they en courage you to do these things, and that they are all there for that purpose. So
if they tried to arrest you for it(assum ing the people running it were cops) it would be considered entrapment. As for it being
for recruitment, it's not nearly hard enough for the gov to recruit the top scorers, i'm ranked 17 right now and I know i'm not
good enough for the gov to recruit me for anything.
PHA I D D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 07:42 PM

Possibly its a m ethod to test out the skills of the hackers that are around and give them a roadm ap on how to block the
attacks.
M a k e i t a g a m e and let the people do your work for you.
NightStalker D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 09:34 PM

W ho says it's not a recruitm ent tool?
Maybe not for the US governm ent, but there are plenty of others out there.
Crim inal organizations looking for potentials, NGO's with an agenda, a univeristy research project, or perhaps foreign
governments looking for dupes to launch an infowar attack against the Great Satan?
Ever read "Enders Gam e"?
The kids were playing gam es, never knowing that the gam es were for real.
This could be an "Ender's Gam e" scenario.
I m a g i n e s o m eone with a grud ge against the US setting up a series of tutorials that teach those who W ANT to learn how to hack
exactly how to do that, disguising it as an entertaining gam e. The lessons are all geared towards the true targets
vulnerabilites, with dumm y sites set up to simu late the vulnerabilites.
O n c e t h e r e ' s e n o u g h " H 4 x 0 R z" who've acquired the nee ded skill sets, you then set up a "challange" for som e prize, and set
t h e g a m es "challenge" as the real-world target, and watch as thousands of your custom-trained crackers proceed to tear it
down, with th em never knowing that they're actually attacking so me vital infrastructure target.
Imagine if the power blackout in New York last year had been the result of such a "game", and was accom p a n i e d b y a h u n d r e d
fedaykin blowing themselves up in the crowded streets of a pitch-black city, the only light com ing from burning buildings,
acco m p a n i e d b y t h e b o o m s o f e x p l o d i n g f e d a y k i n . . . c a n y o u s a y P A N I C ?
It'd be too funny if I turned out to be correct in predicting this as being a n "Enders Gam e". :)

Yes ive read "Enders Game"
It was a good book and does get you thinking.
O n e o p t i o n y o u m issed was the possib ility that it could be a corperation scouting for their IT security personel.
Use your enemy against your enemy.
Y o u e v e r s e e t h e m ovie "Catch me if you can"?
NightStalker January 1st, 2004, 12:51 AM

"ive"?
Shouldn't it be "I've"? NBK has a fetish about that one. ;)
W hy would corporations be looking to train wanna-be hackers for later recruitment? For every one that had the skills to be
worth hiring they'd be creating a h u n d r e d t h a t ' d b e l o o k i n g f o r s o m ething to crack (like the corporations site) and ju s t b e
creating their own pro blem s.
The A narch January 4th, 2004, 02:17 AM

Is anyone suddenly getting a thing asking for a network password when you try to access hackthissite.org?

I just tried to access that site and i was prom ted to give a password, and user nam e.
wrench352 January 4th, 2004, 07:33 PM

m a y b e t h e g a m e just got harder

It was down a few days ago, m aby you can only get in if you're a m o d s o you can work on the site. I hope they are m a k i n g
new challanges, (m ost of) the old ones were quite easy.

It's back up; except the forum . anyone have a full version of W i n H e x ? I c a n ' t s e e m t o f i n d o n e . . . .
The A narch January 8th, 2004, 07:26 PM

Holy shit! Look at this:
"you dont ha ve shit work do you think im that weak? you hardly know who i am or the skills i hold. even if i was stupid enough
to be traced. secure deleted d rives my goverm ent DO D standard is sweet. REAP IT BITCH. *fjears* Ahem , ya and we all know
the Governm ent has HIGH sta n d a r d s , y o u t h i n k t h e y d l e t t h e p e o p l e h a v e s o m e t h i n g t h e y c a n ' t b r e a k ? "
I c a n ' t m a k e h e a d s o r tails of that, but it looks like the site got fucked over. I'm guessing it was Mcaster that did it since he
was listed in the Hall of Lam e a n d t h e y m entioned he was plotting to mess up the site.
Edit: looks like the site's back u p a g a i n .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C an us n00bz still post?
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View Full Version : Can us n00bz still post?
The A narch D e c e m ber 28th, 2003, 06:19 PM

I know there's a new feature where newbies have to wait until their post is approved by a m oderator before it's posted, and this
has been working out fine for the most part; I post som ething, it gets put up at least by the next day. But recently I've posted
two replies in the "Nigger Manual" thread that haven't been put up. I was using the quick reply option, maybe this could have
c a u s e d s o m e problem ? Or m aybe the political views I posted wouldn't be good for forum reputation(doubtful)?
If a moderator simply hasn't gotten to it yet, I don't m e a n t o s o und impatient at all. Just curious.

your wasting your breath by putting any type of reply in that stupid "nigger m a n u a l " t h r e a d .
vulture January 2nd, 2004, 05:30 PM

People are free to express their opinio ns and/or waste their breath on it.
Forb idding people to express a certain opinion could even be considered racism .
Anyways, let's not turn this thread into another flame fe st, now shall we?
Dave Angel January 2nd, 2004, 05:40 PM

Don't worry Anarch, I had a sim ilar problem. I think it m ay have been a glitch when the changes to ok place giving the newbies
a 'no posting for two weeks' restriction even if they had been registered since last july, but were still newbies.
Rhadon January 2nd, 2004, 05:40 PM

All o f Anath's posts should already have appeared in the "Nigger Manual" thread. It just took a little longer than usual.
megalomania January 3rd, 2004, 01:28 AM

Be a t s m e where they go, I know I have deleted som e from newbies, usually when I see they are d o u b l e p o s t s s i n c e s o m e
newbies don't realize they need approval. I try to not censor anything in the WC, but I m ay not notice all the tim e .

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Storing Explosives....I know its stupid...
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I know I know , before I get an online bitch out, hear me out. I w as reading about how a few of you store, AP, which is stupid, but I have to store some...for use on New
Years....currently its outside drying...I'm trying to figure out a way to seperate the batches into smaller batches and I'm wondering where I should keep it..the garage or the
shed? I'm guessing the garage, I'm going to end up moving a lot of the chemicals and solvents and paints from the garage, as I'm worried if there w as an explosion...just how
quick my house w ould be flattened and engulfed in flames :eek: Anyway, my point of this post, is a method for storing small amounts of AP for a short amount of time...I know
not to cover them in containers, such as screw on caps, or butter dishes....so just leave them on a shelf, aw ay from access, on paper plates? How much, would YOU store at a
time, and still feel safe? Also, how do you dry your explosives if w et? I w et my AP slightly with acetone, to help evaporate w ater...does this help or just make the crystal get
larger, thus even more unstability? These are just questions I've been having for a while now and am curious. Thanks.

thats not really storage. its only a few days. i see storage as more than 2 weeks but its all about opinion. i'd divide it into piles about 2cm in diameter. on separate plates with
atleast 0.75m between each. it would help to know how much AP you have. the smaller the piles the better really.

Personally I w ould prefer to store AP in the shed rather than a garage. I w ould much rather have a shed blow up on me than the garage attached to my house. Suppose it
would depend on a whole variety of issues though, security of your shed, the temperature. Also, how ever unlikely, if my house was raided I would much rather the police found
explosives in my shed rather than my garage. Probably make no difference what-so-ever but no point making things easy for them.
xyz December 28th, 2003, 10:18 PM

If I ever need to store AP for any longer than a w eek, I put it into a soft plastic drinking cup, pour water in until it covers the AP by several centimetres, then put a flat piece of
cardboard over the top of the cup to stop things from falling into it. I keep the cup on the shed floor with nothing else near to it.
The main thing to remember is that if AP is soaked in water then it is greatly desensitized and doesn't "evaporate"

Well the synthesis, I performed, w as supposed, to put out somew here near 130 grams....but I had 2 pyrex containers full! Like literally. Something happened and I got more AP
than I asked for...I have 5 platefuls..Its about 2 or 3 centimeters deep...and the plates are about 12" in diameter, I'm going to have to dispose of some of this one way or
another...I'm just trying to figure out how to dry it quicker...and store it...some of it I won't be using....some of it I w ill. I'm guessing I have a kilo of AP, I'm still trying to figure
out how this happened. I w as just toying around and didn't even have an ice bath...although the ap formed, performs, just as the ap formed w ith an icebath....I'm guessing I
still have trimeric version of ap, I'll do more tests and see what happens. I had practically no waste filtrate...it was weird. Anyway...drying recommendation for this kind of yield,
would be highly appreciated!
Ammonal December 28th, 2003, 10:57 PM

I wrap my AP in paper towel, using 2 sheets; put the first on a flat surface pour on your AP, now put the second sheet on top of the AP and fold the corners into the middle to
stop any AP from falling out. I have stored AP in this manner for over 3 w eeks and I noticed no changes in crystal size or anything. I either put it in the coolest spot in my
workshop, or in a an old fridge that doesnt work but it just insulates the AP even from the 35+ degrees C days I have been getting for the last couple of w eeks now. Cant
complain makes excellent drying weather for HMTD.

Flashpoint, I once had a similar situation on my hands... I don't think you have a kilo of AP, probably a bit less but still a hell of a lot more than 130g. Just be damn careful with
it, with that amount of AP a spark won't just deflagrate it, it will cause a massive detonation.
I would take w hat you need for New Years, then soak the rest of it in water.
Or you could make a load of 700g APAN boosters and get some nice big ANFO charges set off.

You could always just spread it out like fertilizer on a bit of ground and w ater it in :P That gets rid of AP ratehr fast. In Australia drying takes less than a day between August -
April cause its so damn hot and NOT humid! I had 45g of AP that I filtered in the morning and it w as dry by the afternoon.
For new years, why not detonate the whole lot? Sounds dangerous bit if you managed to jsut dump all the AP into an ice cream bucket or something and fuse it, it should be
good!

blindreeper: me and you think a lot alike I had thought about that, but I ordered 50 tubes, and 100 feet visco, so it would be here before new years. Then I'll have one helluva
charge. I'm going to go get my friends scale, I lost my coke scale :( I guess I'll just use my friends, and weigh this whole batch out, and let you know what it w eighs, I probably
lost 50-60 grams in spilling and stuff hah...I was messy w ith this batch...very messy. My father was like, son, you need to quit using the dinner plates to dry that shit on. I was
like dad, I have to, he's like here just put it in this washed butter container....I looked at him like an idiot and told him for the 20th time, that I was scared to store, all of it in
that container, for fear if it all went up, my hands/head/legs would be gone. He then took the 5 plates, and made them into 3 paper plates...so I brought 2 more out and
rationed them out to 5 again. I'm so trying to find a place to move out of the house into, so I can do more research and testing...its hard though, being in college, and trying to
move out...I'm living here free, can't bitch. Free internet, free food...I have it good. :) By the w ay, the plates have yellow on the bottom, I'm guessing its's something to do
with the HCl, w hat the hell would make it do that though? I know when its dropped on concrete, or cement, it turns yellow and fizzes, but I'm not understanding w hy its doing
this, w hen it has been neutralized...maybe infact, I haven't neutralized it all. Maybe I'll search the forum and read, w hat I came across last time on that subject...
by the way, xyz, I'm having trouble with my APAN charges, speaking of that. :) Maybe you could help me...I've been reading a lot on it, but I just can't get a charge, to
successfully detonated.

If the yellow is on the paper plates don't worry. It happens when they get wet I think, or an acidic environment. Mine w ent red when I w as drying urea nitrate on one (HCl
method) I had some 40g of AP on a paper plate also and it w ent yellow/orange colour and was wet. I have been told that they are treated with copper nitrate but that maybe
total bull shit.
With all those tubes thats a fair few AP crackers :D
About the APAN I don't know if it detonated or not but I had the charge under 50cm of dirt in a hole electrically detonated w ith a 2g AP cap. It w as 35g APAN with 30g AN and 5g
AP. All I got w as a puff of dirt rising up about 20cm high w ith a pop sound. I think it may have detonated because w hen my ANNM failed det happened the same day all I got
was a pop from the 3g cap and no dirt moving.

flashpoint, the yellow is left over HCl, wash your AP some more because if it is yellow then it is still acidic. AP should be a nice snow white colour.
And for APAN to w ork, the AN and AP both have to be very dry, and the AN has to be pow dered finely enough to mix w ell w ith the AP.
Also, make sure you are using a detonator of at least 2 grams of PRESSED AP. I can't stress how important it is to press your detonators properly (that goes for all detonators,
not just ones for APAN). You don't have to put heaps of force on it either, just a force of a few Kg applied gently but firmly.

I wouldn't like to put any more force on it than i need to, i like these fingers
You say you wet it slightly with acetone, but unless i'm seriously mistaken it's highly soluble in acetone - do you lose any?

As xyz too says, I recomend that the AP should bee at least slightly pressed.
However, when dealing w ith APAN, I usually dont use more than 1ccm of it (5cm long piece of pen tubing), and I think that I get the density to bee not more than about 0.6-
.7g/ccm.
I have never had a faliure with APAN, except for some occasions where the det has failed the d-d transition due to it being moist.
BTW, Im using ~ 10% AP to AN in the charges.
flashpoint, last time I made AP, I got quite surprised over how massive my yield looked, but later I found out that the density w as very low , due to extremely fine crystal
structure, about 0,15-0,2g/ccm. I dont have a very good scale, but if its not totally fucked, I should have gotten approximate readings. By the looks of it, I thought I would
have got at least 100g, but w hen I wheighted it, it was only 40g, wich was more like I had expected.
I store my AP in the filter I filter it in, in a old fridge. this keeps it from drying, and it doesnt recristalyse very much either. I usually also have some dry AP in a film can, wich I
use if I get an urgent need to do some blasting...
From the day when I do a batch, till the day I use the last of it, it is usually around a 1-1,5 month. Only once have I noticed anything more than a minor recrystalisation, and
that was during a hot summer period.
When I set something off, it is usually ANNM if it is bigger than 100g, and APAN if it is smaller.
I never store APAN charges more than 3-4 days, usually, I mix it just before use.

Thanks for the information. Although I figured my AP still had some extra HCl in it, its not that much, it doesn't fizz w hen it hits the floor, only after alot of contact with the paper
does it change colors...so I'm going to refrain from washing it...but again...its still outside...drying...still wet....longest batch ever to dry...I guess because its so big...i'm going to
end upc hanging the plates, so it won't have to sit on wet plates.
As far as the APAN goes, I dried the AN on a hot skillet...in its prilled form..then I crushed it after that, should have done it the other way around though I suppose. Does the
APAN have to be confined? Or just pressed and the det pressed into it? Just curious if I was doing this right. I'll try to get a few pictures of the results of the new test soon.
ALENGOSVIG1 December 29th, 2003, 04:29 PM

I lost my coke scale
By "coke scale" im guessing you mean any scale which one could weigh coke with. Or perhaps its a brand or type or scale and im mistaken. In the case of the former, i don't
know why you would need to tell us that your scale is specifically used for weighing coke. Are you tring to impress someone or what?
Why do you people need so much AP? Hell when I prepare AP I only make around 10 grams and I dry out small amounts as I need it. The bulk of it remains under water. Using
AP (or AP sensitized explosives for that matter) as your main charge is just stupid. Ap should only be prepared in small amounts for making detonators IMO. I also don't think
churning out 50+ large AP salutes in your M-80 factory is a good idea. AP is just too sensitive to be used for making casual firew orks in a production line fashion like that. If i
were you i'd spead out the whole batch in a long, thin line and ignite one end.
As for storing AP in your house or garage... Well all I have to say is BAD IDEA. God, I don't know how you people get to sleep at night know ing you have large amounts of
primary explosives in your house just itching to go off. Putting it in a shed or outside somewhere is a much better plan. I store explosives in airtight ammo cans underground.
Im not sure, but w ouldn't the inside of a unpowdered fridge be w armer than outside if its hot out?
FrankRizzo December 29th, 2003, 08:04 PM

it doesn't fizz w hen it hits the floor, only after alot of contact with the paper does it change colors...so I'm going to refrain from washing it
"Doesn't fizz when it hits the floor"? Do you mean that it doesn't react with the concrete? That's an INCREDIBLY unscientific measurement of acidity. If you truly do have close to
1kg of AP sitting around, I would STRONGLY suggest w ashing your yield w ith sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) before you become a statistic. As the w ater evaporates off,
you're going to be left with a much more acidic environment.
If the re-drying your yield after neutralizing is what is putting you off, just go to the hardware store and buy some Damp-Rid. A plastic container (ice cream pail) with a 1" layer
at the bottom, and a section of window screen used as a shelf above it w ill dry things very fast.
While it's not the monster that many people play it up to be, AP is a PRIMARY explosive and is not something to disrespect.

By "coke scale" im guessing you mean any scale which one could weigh coke with. Or perhaps its a brand or type or scale and im mistaken. In the case of the former, i don't
know why you would need to tell us that your scale is specifically used for weighing coke. Are you tring to impress someone or what?
That's what I called it, although it wasn't used for this purpose. Just to let you know I wasn't bragging or anything :)
Why do you people need so much AP? Hell when I prepare AP I only make around 10 grams and I dry out small amounts as I need it. The bulk of it remains under water.
I didn't mean to have such a huge batch...I w as aiming for near 100 grams for a special effect.
"Doesn't fizz when it hits the floor"? Do you mean that it doesn't react with the concrete? That's an INCREDIBLY unscientific measurement of acidity. If you truly do have close to
1kg of AP sitting around, I would STRONGLY suggest w ashing your yield w ith sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) before you become a statistic. As the w ater evaporates off,
you're going to be left with a much more acidic environment.
I realize this...I'm not entirely stupid...I have washed it, MULTIPLE times...with a bicarb solution, and I know AP is a 'PRIMARY' explosive. I treat it w ith respect...and 99.9% of
the people that treat explosives with respect, don't end up a "statistic". Although some cases may prove otherw ise...shit does happen...I understand that...
Anyhow..after all of that...my original means, for producing a 100 gram batch, w as not for "M80's, salutes, boom makers, what have you", it was mainly for detonators...the
rest I planned on setting aside, and using a few tubes I ordered. I didn't plan on making 50+ Ap crackers....a few, but not 50, the rest, are going to be saved, for some tests,
with other explosives.
green beret January 1st, 2004, 01:46 AM

I have no idea what the problem is, but w henever I make AP, I don't get anywhere near the yeilds being discussed here, even when follow ing someone elses recipe to the
word. I've changed chemicals (to different brands) except for the acid, I'll try that next, but somehow I dont think its the acid, maybe my product just has a higher density than
other peoples for some reason. My scales have been damaged for some time, I'm going to get some more accurate ones soon. Flashpoint, could you tell me w hich procedure
you used, including H202 concentration etc. Thanks.
Dead mAn Walkin January 1st, 2004, 08:17 PM

When I store my Ap, I store it in a folded peice of paper then I put it in a ziplock bag to keep the desired moisture level. I keep the quantities low- under 50g.
Remember, this is WHEN I HAVE to store it. Storing Sensitive Explosives is Unsafe and not smart. No matter how sure you are of your method
McGyver January 2nd, 2004, 03:43 AM

The lower yeild is probably due to impure chemicals. I get about 5g less when i use H2SO4 and a h2o2 consentration of ~30.
I dont see anypoint of making any kind of LE with AP because it creates a poor report, unlike flash.
Also was woundering how much flash would be neccesary to achieve a decent deformation of a mailbox...? :D
xyz January 2nd, 2004, 07:03 AM

green beret, are you keeping the temperature nice and low and adding your acid slow ly?
Here in Australia it can be quite difficult to keep the temperature down, w hich is why I alw ays use a salt ice bath (one solid block of salt ice with the beaker frozen inside and
with the top 1cm of the beaker protruding out of the top, that way, almost the entire surface area of the beaker is cooled).
blindreeper January 2nd, 2004, 07:22 AM

I always have added the H2O2 to the acetone, put it in a freezer till its -10/-20 and then add all the acid at once (HCl) it normally only rises to about 0*C so I can make it fairly
fast.
markgollum January 2nd, 2004, 08:22 PM

Because the only primarys I have made, are peroxides, I NEVER make more than 4g at a time.(just enough for two dets). Also, as soon as the peroxide has been filtered, I
seperate it into tw o piles, which I keep at about six inches apart.
Right now, I am storing about 2grams of HMTD inside a hollow concrete block, w ell protected from heat or shock.
I know it sounds a bit excessive, but it is easy to do, and drastically decreases the chance that I will be injured because of a mishap.
xyz January 2nd, 2004, 10:56 PM

Don't store AP in a hollow concrete block.
Explosion = Flying concrete pieces
If it is stored in the open or inside a very soft container (hollow polystyrene block?) then it eliminates the shrapnel risk.
green beret January 3rd, 2004, 12:20 AM

I always keep it nice and cool, and I am sure my chemicals are pure, I'll try and cool it down even more.
Also, if any Aussie wants some cheap glassware, go to ebay and type in glass wear, there is some very cheap stuff on sale from a person in Sydney, I w ould buy it but couldnt
be bothered arranging a couruier, I dont really trust them.
markgollum January 3rd, 2004, 01:35 AM

About the HMTD in the concrete block. The walls of the block are 2 inches thick, and there is a lot of space inside. (7 * 4 * 3.5 = 98 cubic in). So, taking into account the thickness of
the block, its volume, the very minimal am ount of explosive (2g), and the fact that the top is open with only a piece of wood for a lid, I dont think that the piec es of the block w ould fly
more than 2-3ft. How ever, feel free to correct me on this.
Yes, a styrofoam or pumice block would be superior to w hat I have, and I am planning to get a block of pumice, when the garden stores open in the spring.
Rhadon January 6th, 2004, 02:08 PM

I wouldn't use pumice either because an explosion could still cause dangerous shrapnel. Styrofoam is much better suited. Additionally, it's cheap and easy to work w ith.
I was somewhat surprised to read that in the commercial manufacturing process of explosive devices they sometimes use special sealed containers for storing and transporting
(mostly primary) explosives. These spherical containers ("shields") are made from steel w ith a diameter of about 60 cm, their w alls having a thickness of only a little more than
0.6 cm. That's sufficient to withstand the detonation of 567 g of lead azide inside the shield, though.
I've attached an image of the shield being mounted on a cart. Its locking mechanism can be seen in the upper right corner.
flashpoint January 6th, 2004, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the pictures and info Rhadon...might have to try some experimenting with steel now...

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Ramjet Design Discussion
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This is a more suitable place for a continuation of the ramjet discussion that was taking place in the rocket thread in the pyrotechnics section, go there if you need the
background.

O.K.- You want to push a 15 cm wide object perhaps a meter long past the speed of sound on a sugar rocket. You think this will work because the pressure your motor tubeing
is spec'd for and your motor design program seem to indicate it could work. Is your design in the CENTER of the envelope, or right out at the edge of several parameters?
Why isn't anyone I know flying sugar rockets that break the speed of sound, let alone do it pushing and object much WIDER than the rocket's body on top of it? As you said,
the fuel is nice and cheap. But for some reason, everyone I know who's cracking mach 1 is using AP composites, nitrous oxidized hybrids or, in a few rare cases, LOX and liquid
fuels.
Supersonic speeds with shapes more complex than a rifle bullet or the simplest rocket shapes are apt to experience destructive turbulence. Got a supersonic wind tunnel? It
would come in handy for testing the stability of combustion in your engine too-
How big is your budget? If you have to put one of these on a rocket and fire it to test, you will lose one jet for every trial. (Please don't tell me you're budgeting a recovery
system for this toy!) And I don't think your first "by guess and by golly" try is going to just roar right over the horizon on a stable sustained burn. But if it does, I will be the first
to congratulate you!

I'm not expecting much from this, just for the rocket to decelarate slower than the rocket would if it had no engine at all. The rocket itself is as I said only 64mm wide, and
while the ramjet is 15cm it is a tube and will offer less resistance than a solid transition. There is no reason you can't break mach with sugar motors as far as I'm concerned,
but you would need a larger motor than if you were using higher performance fuels, but that said there is no reason why I couldn't use a hybrid motor design or even AP fuels
for my booster, because this is in the DESIGN stage, I have in no way chosen any specific path yet.
As for recovery, of course there will be a recovery system, I already have the altimiter system, loosing a jet per test flight would just be stupid, and a waste of what money I
have, as you wouldn't be able to get any hard facts back from the way it ran (The person whom I am designing it with also makes and sells custom electronic deployment
altimiters that arm once the pressure begins rapidly changing, once the pressure stops canging the rocket deploys a drogue chute, once the atimiter reads the pressure to be
~700ft it deploys the main chute. The pressure effects caused by mach braking are surpassed by adding a timer to the system that disregards all pressure readings before a
certain time)
"Why isn't anyone I know flying sugar rockets that break the speed of sound, let alone do it pushing and object much WIDER than the rocket's body on top of it?"
-Because there is no point in breaking mach except for bragging rights and adding a larger rocket on top is just making it harder.
"Supersonic speeds with shapes more complex than a rifle bullet or the simplest rocket shapes are apt to experience destructive turbulence. Got a supersonic wind tunnel? It
would come in handy for testing the stability of combustion in your engine too-"
-Yes I have seen rockets break up when passing the sound barrier and I wish I had a wind tunnel, but the design will be such that there 'shouldn't' be any unexpected problems
with turbulance, I'm not going for a crazy asymetric design with rectangular inlets or something, KISS, even though simple is not a word to describe this sort of thing. And even
if I do have problems, I LEARN from them, I find out what is wrong and I'm willing to loose rockets for it, you know why? Because afterwards I will know more than i did at the
start and I will be closer to being succesfull, isn't that what life is? I sure as hell don't have a life wind tunnel to jump in if you catch my drift but I still live.
By guess and by golly is simply not the approach I am taking here, it may be the way nasa oparates and look how they are going ;) I don't intend on completing the design
phase before I am ready whenever that is but I will put as much effort into designing it (and as much thought) as is put into much larger commercial engines. I never make
grandiose claims, like my first flight will be perfect, or that I will do everything right and the motor will be perfect, but that dosn't stop me from trying now does it.
"You think this will work because the pressure your motor tubeing is spec'd for and your motor design program seem to indicate it could work. Is your design in the CENTER of
the envelope, or right out at the edge of several parameters?"
-I think this will work becauase these motors have been repeatedly static fired on load cell thrust guages, I was just talking about the motor pressure because you seemed to
think it was too high. As for the design software, it is usually wrong about max altitude by a few hundred feet but I know that it is not the hight of accuracy, and I know that
just becuase it says exactly Mach 1 the rocket will get to exactly mach 1, you seem to take me for a fool, which I can assure you I'm not.
Your input is highly welcome in designing the motor though, and WHEN it works (and it will, with a lot of time, hard work, money and testing) you will be the first to hear
about it ;) ) But don't decide that I am a bumbeling idiot that will try to slap some carboard tubes together with a cylinder of gas and try to light it, beacuse that simply isn't the
type of person that I am. You seem to be knowledgable in the field howerver, may I ask how you have been involved in amature rocketry in the past?
Also have a look here, more experimenters with the same ideas http://www.rocketresearch.org/

I don't think you're an idiot, if I did I'd have just called your post to the attention of a moderator rather than take the time to point out a few potential weak points.
I DO think you haven't gone through an R&D project of this complexity, and that you will soon know my good friend Mr. Murphy much better than before. But, that can be a
good thing as long as you live through it.
When you actualy finalize a design and put tools to metal, this thread will be worthy of inclusion in the main site, I would judge. I certainly hope you go further with this than
some of the other projects I've seen flash across my screen.
And BTW, 30 odd years ago before AP composites were commonly made by amateurs, I had this little plan... I was going to use MAPP gas for the fuel in my little ramjet, it
would self ignite from the compression, it was gonna be BEAUTIFUL... But I didn't have the engineering support or the fabrication facilities, nor the huge base of practical
amateur experience now available on the internet. You do. Break a leg, kid.
Blackhawk December 30th, 2003, 06:54 PM

Thanks, yes this is my first complex sort of project and I'll do my best at it, I'll post updates here, probably some of the maths I am using and pictures of the design
progression. I have no doubt I'll meet a sea of problems but thats the fun part, if everything just went together and it flew than where would the accomplishment be (I enjoy
fixing my RC car a lot more than driving it for some reason).
"But I didn't have the engineering support or the fabrication facilities, nor the huge base of practical amateur experience now available on the internet."
-Ahhh, but you do now, why don't you give it a go again ;)
Marvin January 1st, 2004, 12:46 AM

I'm worried you are presurising the fuel with an oxidiser, I'm furthur worried that at this pressure the oxidiser will dissolve in the fuel to a large extent....
N2 at room temp is well above its critical point, so no pressure however extreme will liquify it.
"....so the only way you can increase the thrust is to make what is flying away heavier, or make it fly faster..."
This is rather flawwed thinking.
If you increase the mass of the fuel without changing its energy, then that rocket will perform worse than a rocket in which the increased fuel mass is simply due to using more
fuel.
If you increase the mass of the fuel and its energy content, thats equivalent to saying 'make a bigger rocket' or 'burn fuel more rapidly' and this doesnt work out to producing a
faster rocket, unless its staged.
If you make the fuel lighter while keeping its energy though you end up with a faster rocket. So the key is making lighter fuel (and hense exaust), not heavier fuel.
"Seeing as the only particles used in most rockets are very light gas particles the only way you can get better performance is to make the gas fly away faster"
I think the concept you are searching for here is that the exhaust is limited to being the same mass as the fuel. While this seems obvios, its the key reason increasing mass to
get a bigger impulse from an amount of energy doesnt work.
I look forward to hearing more about the project and I'm sure if you spend long enough on it you'll succeed. I do think it would be helpful if you started dealing with the design
more formally. (Read the math that would have explained all te above).
The last thing I'll add is while I'm sure you think you can avoid unexpected problems anything you can forsee in order to avoid is automatically not an unexpected problem is it
:)
Everything I have ever done has turned out to be more complicated than I thought it would.

Does anyone else think we need a new area for stuff like this?
Putting it in the watercooler seems wrong!
For what it is worth, I wish you both good luck. As someone who knows the complexity of these systems, (and the things like cruise missiles, on another water cooler thread) I
know it won't be easy. However, the journey is often better than the destination!
I also believe that too few people these days ever try to really stretch themselves, or try something new, that actually has a reasonable chance of success. I think that building
a homemade ramjet is one of the things that is definately do-able, and was something I tried some years back. I only worked it out on paper, however.
Of course, on paper, it looks simple...
On a practical note, you can build a wind-tunnel at home, with just a pair of room fans and some board, and a tube of silicon. It won't be very fast, but it will let you try out
designs for stability at the low speeds that are encountered at launch. A simple ping-pong ball can be used for a windspeed meter. http://home.zonnet.nl/sicco55/
anemometer.htm is one example. I used a scanner window for visibility.

Yes I have heard of using fans for home made wind tunnels, also you can make a simple 'fog wand' by sticking a short section of tube onto the tip of a soldering iron (so that
the tip is in the centre of the tube) and filling the tube with generic fogger liquid, you can use the fog to check for any eddies and disturbances in the air flow. I think that I
might begin with a subsonic ramjet as they are much simpler in design and construction, to first verify that the systems are working properly, the rocket will most probably
loose velocity while the motor is running but with the extra thrust a higher altitude would be attained than without the motor running at all, which could be used to verify it's
operation. If everything is working from there I will progress to a higher performance supersonic version which I should be able to get to increase in speed rather than just
slowing down faster ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 11 year old in UK arrested over
treehouse...
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http://news.com.au/com m o n / s t o r y _ p a g e / 0 , 4 0 5 7 , 8 2 6 8 8 3 1 % 2 5 5 E 1 3 7 6 2 , 0 0 . h t m l
The gestapo are getting stricter. This kid was locked in a cell for 6 hours and had mugshots, fingerprints, and a DNA sam ple
t a k e n , a l l b e c a u s e h e w a s b u i l d i n g a t r e e h o u s e in a public park.
zeocrash D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 08:33 AM

i do think 6 hours in a cell is a bit extrem e, but the kid was chopping apart trees in the park with a hacksaw.

OK, the article I read neglecte d to m ention that...
It's not the cell time that I would be worried about, it would be that the pork would have a record of my fingerprints and DNA.

W ho is to say that they dont get DNA samples from hospitals from standard tests?
I wouldnt be suprised if some countries dont do it when you are borne.
The A narch January 1st, 2004, 05:44 AM

It doesn't m atter wha t he was doing, the kid is fucking ELEVEN. They trea t him like a crim inal because the kid wante d to build a
tree house? Jesus fucking Christ, those limey bastards should be killed.
And "Police said they were responding to com plaints from neighbours about anti-social behaviour."
Anti-social behavior? W hat kind of horse shit is that? This really upsets m e . T h e p o o r k i d w a n t s t o b u i l d a t r e e h o u s e , a n d h e
gets this shit. Sure, it was on public property. They definitely had a reason to m aybe tell him to stop, but no. They force that
shit on him. Now i'm so mad i wanna g o pound an old lady's head in with a brick.
chemwarrior January 1st, 2004, 10:41 PM

Anarch, chill out.
Its pretty sad when they arrest little kids over a shit like that... just shows where society is going. The cell time was one thing,
teach the kid not to do it again, but the fingerprinting and DNA??? Now THAT is some bullshit.
Flake2m January 2nd, 2004, 02:50 AM

W hile this does sound like bullshit. The article doesn't really tell us m uch. For all we know the kid could have bad m outhed to
cops when th e y a s k e d h i m to stop and then tried to assult them. Now I d ont support the cops an the way they handled this,
but I don't know the full story either. If the kid was disrespectful and being a little brat, then he probaly deserved a few hours
in a cell.
I h a v e s e e n t h i n g s t h at could have ended peacefully turn out very nasty, sim p l y b e c a u s e t h e p e r s o n s i n v o l v e d d e c i d e d t o b e

rude and disrespectful. If this is the ca s e , t h e n t h e b o y n e e d s t o l e a r n s o m e m a n n e r s .
Anthony January 2nd, 2004, 01:24 PM

I'm with flake2m here. You think "the kid was 11 and playing in a park, what real harm co u l d h e h a v e b e e n d o i n g ? " .
But, just as likely, the kid was a little bastard sitting up that tree throwing stones at the windows of the m entioned local
residents.
He might have been printed/had DNA taken as a general policy, whereby all persons arrested are printed. The desk guy m ig ht
have said "do we really need to print a kid?", and chances are the serg p ointed to the guideline that says "All detained
persons..." a nd told him to get on with it.
Of course, it could be exactly as it's being told and is just yet an other story of bureaucracy.
megalomania January 3rd, 2004, 01:37 AM

Buerocracy sound more like it. Rem e m ber civil servents are slaves to pro cedure since they lack the ability of independant
thought, if they were sm art to begin with they wouldn't choose to be civil servants :) Keeping the kid in a cell was probably for
his own good if there were dru nks and real felons about. It is probably policy to hold the kid until the parents are fo und,
although most police stations in the world would probably have driven the kid home.
I think by no w we should not be shocked that the gestapo acts like the g e s t a p o .
Ollie Snowie January 3rd, 2004, 09:52 AM

S o m ething similar to this got right into the Gua rdian newspaper a few weeks ago; som e g i r l h a d a t r e e h o u s e t h a t h a d b e e n
m ade without plannin g permission, and her father payed for lawyers and took it to court when the council stuck their snout in!
For a TREE HO USE! It was PUBLISHED IN THE GUARDIAN. The poor girl will be wishing that she had never be en alive (or m a y b e
just never had a treehouse), what with the em barrassment! Oh well, at least everyone who reads the guardian will know our
town as the place where people will take petty stuff like this to court :rolleyes:. It's nice to know how the wh ole town of [the
place where it rains] is just laughing stock for the newspapers.
nitric63 January 3rd, 2004, 07:01 PM

Hm m, this reminds m e of a story I read about a few m onths ago in which police shut down a little girl's lem o n a d e s t a n d ( I t h ink
i t h a p p e n e d i n s o m e town in florida ho wever I'm not certain about this) because she had no perm it. However this was after an
a s s h o l e n e i g h b o r f i l e d a c o m plaint about it and it was the law that the police have to do som ething if some o n e c o m plains
about the lack of perm it. The town ended up granting the girl a permit for free though so it has a happy ending.
streety January 3rd, 2004, 09:40 PM

although most police stations in the world would probably have driven the kid home.
I wouldn't be so sure about th at. It m ight be against policy.
I can't rem e m ber where I heard this so it could be com plete rubbish but apparrently the police refused to d rive a woman hom e
when they arrested her boyfriend and on the journey ho m e s h e w a s r a p e d .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > The Sopranos
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ALENGOSVIG1 D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 05:38 PM

Season #5 starts March 7th, 2 004, and I sim ply can't wait. it sucks tony killed ralph last season though. He was such a bada ss.
:coo l:
Am I the only one here hopelessly addicted to the Sopranos? Any fellow Sopranos addicts in our m idst?
blazter D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 06:30 PM

Funny this should get posted now, because recently I've been leeching early sopranos episodes from usenet. Currently I'm up
t o a b o u t t h e e n d o f s e a s o n 2 I t h i n k , e p i s o d e # 2 6 w h e r e " P u s s y " g e t s o f f e d . W ith any luck alt.binaries.jtp will continue the
p o s t i n g s c h e d u l e o f a new episode about every other day. Though I haven't seen any of the episodes live on tv, they're pretty
good on PC whenever I don't have anything better to do. Som e o f t h e m tend to be a bit lam e, but m o s t o f t h e m h a v e a f a i r
share of ass kicking going on. Probably my favorite scene so far is when Furio goes into the porn shop and beats the shit out
of everyone there. Too bad I don't rem e m ber which one that is, but I think it was early season 2.

I also periodically download episodes off the net when I can.
I've noticed the older episodes have been on channels like movie central, adrenaline drive, etc lately. Im g o i n g t o g e t a T V
tuner card within the next couple weeks to take advantage of this. That way I can get copies of all the shows i want, remove all
t h e d a m n com mercials, and be able to watch whatever show whe never i want. And ofcourse the whole ordea l of finding/
downloading them off the net is elim in ated. :)
NightStalker D e c e m ber 31st, 2003 , 09:22 PM

Ahhh...but broadcast TV removes a lot of the "good" stuff from the Soprano's, as it's "too violent". :rolleyes: So unless you're
copying it off of HBO directly, you'd be copying the lam ed version. :(

Dont worry. I've got d igital cable so I get all the goodies uncut. :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Dog grabs firework video
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The A narch January 1st, 2004, 07:10 AM

S o m e o f y o u h a v e p r o b a b l y h e a r d o f e baumsworld.com . It's not THE funniest site out there, but i saw this video on it that i'm
sure could be appreciated by som e forum ites.
http://www.m edia.ebaumsworld.com/in dex.php?e=dogfirework.wm v
FragmentedSanity January 2nd, 2004, 01:09 AM

hehe - I got a laugh out of that one :)
A n y o n e e l s e i m agine the riots that would ensue if that had taken place in a crowd e d a r e a - l i k e o n e o f t h o s e n e w y e a r s
celebrations? A few dogs carrying rom an candle s through a crowd would b e nasty.
10000grams January 2nd, 2004, 02:18 AM

That's funny, luckily it didn't p ick up a more dangerous item like a mortar with a shell in it about to go off.

that was funny as hell. you gu ys should send it into anim al planets funniest videos.
Bong January 3rd, 2004, 10:28 AM

Funny! I laught m y arse off! Lucky the firework did not go off in his m o u t h . W h e n I w a s y o u n g t h e s a m e type of fire work
e x p l o d e d i n m y hand and left a m ark twice the size of a cola bottol lid.
Dave Angel January 3rd, 2004, 11:04 AM

T h a t v i d e o r e m i n d s m e o f t h e g r e n a d e l a u n c h e r in Quake II, the projectiles bouncing off the ground.
And that dog d o e s s e e m t o b e a i m ing them at the spectators don't you think?
Sonny Jim January 3rd, 2004, 03:16 PM

And there wa s m e thinking it was going to be curtains to the little dog. Still though, had m e laughing well and true.

I'd have to a gree with Dave. It barely m issed that guy at one point.

Looks like ebaum s has another good video!
http://ebaum sworld.com /whaleblowup.htm l
Mr. Boombastic January 6th, 2004, 01:28 PM

m a n t h a t w a s a g o o d o n e - i h o p e Y o u h a v e m ore f these:)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Aluminum Sulphate
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Dead mA n Walkin January 1st, 2004, 08:02 PM

I ' v e b e e n d o i n g s o m e research on Alum inum powders. I can aquire Alum inum Sulphate quite easily in LARGE quantities(Sp?).
Uses of AS:
Tanning; Metallurgy; Pulp & Paper; Textiles; W a te r T r ea t ment
W hile reading the MSDS on Alum inum Sulphate I cam e across this:
Stability and Reactivity : Stable under normal tem peratures and pressures. On contact with moisture is readily hydrolysed to
sulphuric acid. Corrosive to m etals in the presence of m oisture.
This states that AS will decompose into H2S04. If so, what kind of concentrations will it produce? Impurities? (I find it difficult to
get H2SO 4)
I also understand that AS is directly involved in the production of AL. Is this correct? If so, what is the purpose of it?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > PGP Unsafe?
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Lead Storm January 3rd, 2004, 02:11 AM

I saw an article on television about PGP versions 6 and later have a "hole" in them because RSA gave in to government pressure. It appears that "Uncle Sam" doesn't
want "Terrorists" to "Threaten National Security". The hole supposedly allows the government to read PGP encrypted messages. Is this true? Has anybody heard of this?
Dead mAn Walkin January 3rd, 2004, 11:48 AM

Doubtfull to say the least. If the gov. wants something bad enough (eg. to read an encrypted message) they will devise a way to do so. Encrypting is just another level of
protection against little skript kiddies. Every step is a step in the right direction.
If you need extra protection, you could register for a secure e-mail account and send your pgp encrypted message with a password on it using the providers encryption aswell.
www.ziplip.com
That is the first one that comes to find. It's free so that is a bonus.
Rhadon January 3rd, 2004, 01:23 PM

Well, if they talk about it on TV it's probably wrong ;).
No, honestly: I think that some versions of PGP following PGP 6.0 contained a backdoor for the government because until then, the software was open source what means that
you can download the source code, look for a backdoor and if you're sure that it only does what it's supposed to do you can compile it. Afterwards, there were some versions
which were not Open Source, but at least version 8.0 was open source again, so that one should be clean.
If that doesn't make you feel safe, you can also use GnuPG (http://www.gnupg.org/index.html.en), a version of PGP which is written by some people for the sake of
anonymity and not for a company, so the probability that someone has put pressure on them in order for them to implement a backdoor is rather low.

If the gov. wants something bad enough (eg. to read an encrypted message) they will devise a way to do so. They will try to find a way to do so, that's sure, but they will not
necessarily succeed. Few people really know if they are able to decipher messages which are encrypted with algorithms that are called "secure" - I don't think they can unless
the encryption program contains a backdoor. Why should they? There are many excellent cryptographs who want people to be able to stay anonymous who think that these
"secure" algorithms really are secure, and why should the crypto-analysts of government institutions be so much better? They have a lot of money, and money is always an
advantage, but I don't think that it's enough.
Looking from a mathematical angle I can at least say that there are operations which are easy to do but hard to undo. In our case that would mean: Without knowing the
appropriate passphrase, it is easy to encrypt a message, but decrypting it is hard. Look at the following simple example (which has indeed something to do with cryptography):
We have two large integer numbers a and b which are prime. Multiplying them is easy and doesn't take much time. Let the result be c. If we now start from the opposite side
and let c be given while a and b are unknown, it is a very time-consuming process to determine a and b out of c.
In other words: There are problems for which there is no known efficient approach, i.e. even with computers that are many many times as fast as those available today it will
not be possible to solve them if the input for the problem (e.g. the number of decimal places for a and b in the example above) is more than just "a few". In my point of view,
the only weak spot is whether or not there is a different, efficient approach, but why should people working for the government be more likely to find it than other crypto-
analysts?

I may be mistaken but i remember an article i read some time ago that was about encryption programs and they stated that the NSA does get a "master key" to any encription
program as a matter of national security.
There were a couple of guys who posted a program on the net and got nailed by the gov over it.
I am not sure but it may have been PGP.

Phaid, the thing with the "master key" reminds me of something with Windows. Are you sure it was about encryption programs? If so, a link to the article would help. The
same thing applies to the end of your post which is a little vague IMHO.

Here is a link in referance to the ability of the gov to get the "keys"
http://www.cdt.org/publications/pp_5.22.shtml/
I will have the story on the guys who got nailed as soon as i find it.
Here it is.
http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/timeline/
Nihilist January 3rd, 2004, 05:31 PM

There is no such thing as a "master key" to most encryption software. They may have forced the companies to add a crypographic weakness which would allow them to crack
it, but a master key is a definite impossibility.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'd say that the first source you mention is obsolete. It's from 1999 and cryptography law has changed since then. As far as I know there are no more
crypto-regulations in the US. Apart from that, a backdoor in an open source program is likely to get removed rather fast, especially in non-commericial software.
I couldn't find the part with someone getting legal problems in the second source, but that's probably due to myself because I only had the time to skim through the text.

Personaly i think your safe with the encryption programs unless the the Feds have a real issue with you.
Most local cops probably dont have the skills to find simple hidden files let alone encrypted ones.
The first link i posted was from a site that keeps up with the laws up to date, i just shot a link to the first article that i saw that related to the subject.
It was part 4 that talked about their hastles with the gov.
Flake2m January 4th, 2004, 08:04 AM

While programming wise PGP my be 99% secure it isn't the programing that can make it insecure. The Human Element is often the weakest link in encryption. The person that
sets the password has to remember it, or make sure someone else will remember it so often they will make it short or something easy to remeber such as a name or common
quote. A bit of social engineering can go a long way in trying to retrive a password.
Rhadon January 4th, 2004, 10:42 AM
PHAID, I read part 4. It was about exporting regulations of crypto software which have been repealed now in the US, so that's not an issue anymore today.
Voyager January 8th, 2004, 02:30 AM

Some cryptographic algorithms have a feature called "key escrow" where a trusted entity (i.e. the government) maintains a set of encryption keys.
Under a key escrow system, the messages are encrypted to the recipient AND to the key which is held in escrow.
If the recipient ever loses his key (i.e. refuses to incriminate himself), the government can use their escrowed key.
PGP doesn't utilize key escrow technologies. The governments choice of key escrow technologies was the faulty and failed Clipper initiative.
I believe PGP is secure. Why do I believe this? Mostly because the source code to PGP is publically available. It is difficult to hide in plain sight. However, Phil Zimmerman is also
back at PGP Corporation now -- and Phil is no government bootlicker.

I know that the later versions of PGP have a form of escrow, as it is used by one large company I know to encrypt the disc drives in case the laptops are stolen. The security
team keeps an escrow copy, so data can be recovered. I think it is PGP 8 Corporate they use. They will have tested it for security before rolling it out, too.

It may be possible for an administrator to set a rule that in every encryption process a certain key will be automatically added to the recipients. But that does in no way mean
that PGP does that without setting this option active in the admin tool.
zyk43 January 8th, 2004, 07:38 PM

the American and allied governments have access to the most powerful computers in the world, any message they wanted to see they would be able to crack via brute force
without a back door unless you used some crazy key length...

the American and allied governments have access to the most powerful computers in the world, any message they wanted to see they would be able to crack via brute force
One would guess! But this assumption is wrong. The reason is that the number of possible password in dependence of the characters the password has is exponential. Look at
the following (fictional) example:
Let's assume that many years ago our dear feds wanted to attack a secure algorithm with brute force. They only had a computer with one single MHZ, but they nevertheless
found a comparatively efficient attack algorithm which could try 1,000,000 passwords per second. On average the correct password will be found after trying 50% of all possible
passwords. If the password is composed of uppercase characters, lower case characters, numbers and 20 signs like ".", ",", ":", "%", all in all 82 possible characters, they could
find out all passwords with a length of ~7.21 characters or less if they let their brute force program run for one year.
Now let's assume that they have a much better computer today - with 1 ZHZ = 1,000,000,000,000 MHZ (!). How many characters may the password now have if the attack
was it worth for them to let their supercomputer run for a whole year? Only ~13.48!
My PGP password has more than 50 characters. The expenses needed to find it out by a brute force attack would be tremendous! If they wanted to do it in one year they
would need ~7.7*1081 MHZ if the above assumptions would apply. Quite a lot :D.

Yes they would but by the time that happened you would be long dead from old age.
I guess I should have refreshed the thread before replying. You have made my point far better than I did Rhadon

Ahh but you are making several assumptions here
1. You are assuming that your passwords are 100% random collections of letters and numbers. Because such a password becomes a weakness in itself (in so far as its almost
impossible to remember) this is almost always not the case and anyone trying to crack your password will have a good starting point based on standard character patterns
present various languages
2. How has the government been able to so successfully foil all recent terrorist attempts against the Allies if they cant crack messages which Im sure the terrorists encrypt using
PGP (these guys might not like us, but they arent stupid!)
Although I do agree that with what today is accepted as a standard computer available to all but the highest levels of government a PGP encrypted message is virtually
uncrackable.
It would be interesting to see how long this thing would take...360 teraflops
http://www.research.ibm.com/resources/news/20031114_bluegene.shtml
and if they are publically announcing this machine you can be sure the American military will have one several times as powerful hidden away somewhere in secret, thats if
they havent already got a quantum computer, which if they have even a 6,000,000 charachter password wouldnt be secure
PHAID January 8th, 2004, 08:49 PM

There was a show on "The Learning Channel" about the NSA and their computers.
The one bit they had said you can have the fastest computer made at that time running calculations to break codes and it would take it 29 years to do what their
supercomputer can do in 1 minute.
Granted you never really know if they are giving facts or if it is propaganda.
Look at satalite images that are public, 1m resolution and that is from the old images that they let you see from outdated tech.
Big brother does watch you.

There is absolutely no way that NSA can crack most good encryption algo's out there today(AES, blowfish, PGP) in any reasonable amount of time. Read "Applied
Cryptography" by Bruce Schnier(it's on the FTP) if you want more details. Essentially, assuming computer power increased by 10 times, and the quality of decryption
algorithims increased by a similar factor, it would still take them about 100 billion years to decrypt a PGP'd message.

PHAID: Even if they have such computers (which I don't believe they do) this computers will still be significantly slower than the one I used in my above calculation - assuming
that computers that we use today have 5000 MHz in average, their computers will have 76,212,000,000 MHz. Much less than the 1,000,000,000,000 MHz I used. And it can
only attack short passwords.
It's true what Nihilist says, at least if they don't have your private key. My calculations above were based on the assumption that they have your private key.
zyk43: I don't think that point (1) does significantly lower the time needed for the attack. Even if testing every 1000th password would be sufficient that wouldn't make that
much differemce. To point (2) I only say: 9/11. One could counter by saying that this attack was planned an executed by the US government itself to enable deep
interventions into their citizens' rights (e.g. the Partiot Act), but that's another story which shall not be discussed in this topic.

I agree that no matter what it would take a fair while (be that weeks or years) and on reflection an obvious terrorist tactic would be to send out 50 encrypted messages at
once, only 1 of which was relevent. This would mean that even if they could decrypt in a few weeks/ months by the time they had decrypted the whole lot it would be too
late...safety in numbers so to speak
On a slight side note, I dont know if petaflops used in measurement of supercomupters can directly relate to MHz used to measure desktop computers speeds. The raw MHz
measurement value isnt always the most accurate value of computing power. This is illustrated by AMD whose athlon processors perform as well as pentuim 4's even though
they run slower.

You're right - MHz and flops are not directly related like that, but it's not massively far off. Run a benchmark on your own machine and see.
If you sent 50 messages, they wouldn't have to break them all. They'd be attacking your key, once they've found it (the first message decrypts) they can use it to decrypt all
the others, just like you would.
Mr-Eckted January 10th, 2004, 07:13 PM

What if you were to Encrypt Your information (if it were a message, not a file) with PGP, and then used another program like blowfish to encrypt the text that PGP gave you?
You could do this several times, with different programs. Not only would it take them however many more times to crack it, but they wouldn't know which type of encryption
you used, and where.

Another way to hack encryption is to try and decipher messages of which you can roughly guess or either know the content.
For example, the allies would have planes shooting down german buoys, because they would sent the message "buoy destroyed" using enigma encryption.
After numerous attempts on this message, it was finally cracked.

"If you sent 50 messages, they wouldn't have to break them all. They'd be attacking your key, once they've found it (the first message decrypts) they can use it to decrypt all
the others, just like you would."
Good point, assuming you used the same key for each...

Good point, assuming you used the same key for each...
How the hell is the intended recipient going to decipher that?
Please refrain from making pointless posts. Postwhores are rather disliked.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Looking for diagram s...
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View Full Version : Looking for diagrams...
mongo blongo January 3rd, 2004, 03:33 PM

I a m looking for sche m a t i c d i a g r a m s o f w e a p o n s a n d i n particular nuclear devices. I need them for an inlay cover of m y b a n d s
new album /EP. They have to be line diagram s because we can only have full colour on the outside cover. The inside is limite d
to only black and white.
I h a v e a s m all collection of pics which include schem atic diagram s of m achine guns and war related devices but I am very sh ort
on nuclear diagram s which is what we particularly want.
W e are basically looking for anything which *looks* like m ilitary produced plans for weapo ns as long as you can tell what
weapon is on the plan.
So if anyone has anything we can use, it would be greatly appreciated if you could e-m ail m e any pics you have.
Thanks

http://www.jo hnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/diagthermon.html
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Library/Brown/
http://www.stopthebom b s . o r g / n u k e / t h e r m o n u c l e a r b o m b.htm l
t h e s e c o n d o ne in particular is the best. drop m e a n e m a i l n e x t w e e k s o m etime, let m e know how the bands going...
mongo blongo January 4th, 2004, 03:53 PM

H i d u d e . I a l r e a d y h a v e t h o e s o n e s m a t e h e h e : ) T h a n k s f o r t h e help anyways though:)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The profecy is true
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thrall January 3rd, 2004, 05:41 PM

As I've said that membership count will surpass 6000 in less that 2 months of it getting 5000.So the profecy is TRUE;).
Comments...............................

There may be 6,000 but how many contribute and post?

thrall, you are obviously jesus.
Hang-Man January 3rd, 2004, 07:33 PM

There may be 6,000 but how many contribute and post?
I'd say it is well under 6000, as low as 150 even. You have to sign in and out everytime you come, so it shouldn't be to hard to get a list of daily/weekly etc members. (Could
allways make a 'roll-call' thread...)

I know i am in and out alot and what few posts i have made may not be of much help but overall i make the attempt to contribute what i do know.
It does seem that most posts are made by only a few people.
streety January 3rd, 2004, 09:31 PM

It's always the case that there are fewer regular posters in any forum than there are members to the forum but 6000 is still impressive.
Also, if I remember correctly, the least active members are deleted from time to time which just makes the total more impressive.
Also, you don't need to sign in and out everytime, I know that I don't.
blindreeper January 4th, 2004, 02:50 AM

There is a setting in your user CP ( I think its there) about setting cookies which means you don't have to log out. I don't think I have logged out since sepember, unless you
count the forum being down last month.
Anath January 4th, 2004, 03:57 AM

Some of us are more active in the IRC channel as well, where irrelevant banter is welcomed ;)
Every time I go to post something to the Forum I think "Is this a useful comment, and is it adding anything worthwhile to the Forum".. Not much makes it through that filter. I
usually just dump my ideas into a textfile for later review and consolidating into (hopefully) interesting posts of some length, rather than one line "me too" type crap. Quality
over quantity, folks..
irish January 4th, 2004, 04:45 AM

It would be interesting to see how many active members there are and how many lurk without posting. I look at the forum two or three times a day as a minimum but often
don't post on a thred for the same reason as Anath.
thrall January 4th, 2004, 06:51 AM

Well, what I was conserned then and now is that "Forum" IS growing exponentially and so as the chanses of attracting piggies attention and some other possible follow up that
may result in a threat to the very existance of the Forum.
As far as non posting members are concerned I'd like to say that most of them should be like me. I've downloaded some books from net,WRM,NBK2000 and other books that
I'm reading,but before that I didn't know iota of the the things around here. I think it is GOOD that ignorant people are not posting,probably they read the rules.Anyway the
goal of Forum is dissemination of free "information" and not trading so lurking "info leeches" should not be considered problem IMHO.
@kingspaz:If somebody pious person made that comment I'd have taken it as appriciation but here it is just too obvious sercasm.But why?the profecy IS true:( .(this is just a
joke)

I suspect most of them are too scared to post, as they don't want HED! However, having been away for a while, it was a suprize to see that only two threads had no new
messages, the Nitric one, and the HED dungeon.
The problem is that newbies don't appreciate what this forum is, and post crap and get banned, or they do appreciate it, and don't dare post, just in case!
megalomania January 5th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Well I happen to have the stats, and if you want to know over 50% of our member total are active, although most are lurkers.
As for number of posts, no there is no correlating increase in posts vs the increase in new members. Average posts per month have clearly increased over the past year, but not
nearly at the rate member totals have. I have some theories on this and I would like to share them to help explain why there will be more and more lurkers, but fewer posters.
As our general level of knowledge increases we cover the basics more thoroughly. As we cover the basics this excludes the vast majority of members from contributing because
they can't add anything new. This coverage of general material is incidentally what attracts the majority of our members. It's all about the law of averages, most people
attracted to the site will have little in the way of practical knowledge and come to The Forum to learn.
In the next step we have the people who are knowledgable, very knowledgable. Prolific types like myself and nbk. We are rare, but we are attracted to a place like to Forum
because of the vast level of general knowledge. For people like us there are always new areas to explore, but of course there are far fewer people. Such posters increase
membership even more because of the rarity of the information.
Ultimately it is a system of diminishing returns. Our level of knowledge will grow and grow to encompass so much information that fewer and fewer people will have any
knowledge to contribute that has not already. Is this a bad thing? Not really since the vast majority of people will get exactly what they want, tons of practical information, and
the advanced poster will get access to resources he may have been seeking.
This system will manefest itself as what we are seeing, more members, fewer posts, but posts of increasing quality.
I truly believe that each and every member has some sort of information they can bring to the table, some large some small. Within the near future we (meaning The Forum)
will offer increasingly more for the members in the form of scanned books, FTP sites, other software, and quite possibly additional sections. New sections will mean a fresh
infusion of ideas and information added to The Forum, new member interests, and greater value to all involved.
The Forum is an evolving being, as it reaches a higher state of existence it takes longer and longer to manefest new plataus of consciousness. I envision a Forum in as little as
5 years with tens of thousands of members, hundreds of thousands of posts, a half dozen new sections, hundreds of online books completly searchable, our own database of
hundreds of archived websites completly searchable, thousands of links to top quality scientific resources, and our own brand of Forum merchandise.
thrall January 5th, 2004, 07:43 PM

Mega! your vision is right obviously but it is based on an assumption that may vanish in time. Assumption is that "if everything goes on like this".Which it might not. Till now
"Forum" hasn't got media attention,and thats only better. But what will happen when membership will be 10,000 plus. Some kewl/kewls killing himself or others and blames
the Forum. BBC and CNN cries about "terrorist" information on the net. Then,then friends! "the system" will start making it's move. "The system" is far more more powerful
and resouseful then entire forum community.
The scenario I'm givin is not far from reality,only closer to it. But lets see, and enjoy the freedom while we can.

TOTSE has over 100,000 members does it not? And are not they purvayers of foul information on a grand scale? Certainly they are far more dangerous than we could ever be.
As long as they are around leading the charge as it were they will be the first to fall. As for us if push comes to shove we can always move to a foreign host. That's the wonder
of the Internet, one mans illegality is anothers basic right in some other country of the world.

That's a nice vision mega, the idea of forum merchandise is certainly interesting. I know it was mentioned in the topic discussing your story a few weeks back but I didn't think
it was a serious idea.
50% of the members being active is great but I'm wondering how activity is defined?
blindreeper January 5th, 2004, 09:17 PM

About the merchendise, I have been making some T's with those iron on things. I printed em off and I have had this "The*Ataris" shirt for somthing like 3 months and the thing
hasn't cracked or peeled. I think that we should just have an image and you download it print it off and your set! We just need the image :rolleyes:

il make it in photoshop, if someone has an idea.

I know this is absolutly shit house, but I was thinking somthing suttle like this. Would be asy to iron on and no complex colours. I think if someone was in graphic design or was
good with design they could make it look heaps better.
http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/v29/blindreeper/the_forum.jpg

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Alcohol and Distilleries
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ossassin January 4th, 2004, 02:51 PM

T h i s m ay sound a bit strange, but I was wondering if an yone here knows how to make hard drinks (specifically rum . ) I ' m g o i n g
on a short sailng trip just like in the good old d ays, :) a nd I thought it would be interesting to bring along some gro g. However,
I h a v e n ' t b e e n a b l e t o o b t a i n a n y r u m , a n d I ' m too you ng to buy it. The rum wou ldn't have to be of a very good quality, since
I'd be using it in grog, anyway. Can anyone help? Thanks.
zeocrash January 4th, 2004, 03:32 PM

from what i've found, rum is m a d e f r o m distilling fermented m ollasses or cane sugar, (not available in shops). I read that
ferm ented treacle could be used, so that's probably your best bet. and if it all coes wrong, well atleast you'll have som e treacle
beer ;)
Dead mA n Walkin January 5th, 2004, 11:24 PM

Ahh... Home distilling . I m a d e m y own still a while back, m ade some horrible stuff then gave it up. But if you like it, cool. So i'll
just give you some links instead of explaining to you how it all works.
http://www.thickos.co.uk/distilla.html
http://www.hom e-distilling.com /
http://www.beer.org/~tpark/hch.html
http://www.hom edistiller.org/
I got all m y info from these sites. I used a water/yeast/sugar mash to m a k e m y liquor.
Hope it helps.
P.S An Explosives and weapons fourm isnt the best place to go looking for inform ation on distilling your own hooch.
wrench352 January 6th, 2004, 04:24 AM

Check this out:
Teakettle Still (http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/moon1.html)
Cheap(+-$30 including all materials&ingriedients),easy(I put it together in 25 minutes) but horribly inefficient.I was going to
write up a full report later.Resulting product is quite drin k a b l e a n d u p o n s e c o n d d i s t i l l a t i o n burns with a pretty blue flame.There
is very little m ethyl alcohol produced if you follow the directions,so no,you wont go blind.The hardest part is finding sorghram
m ollasses(which I never did find),but corn syrup works great.Mad props to Marvin,who gave great advice along the way!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The surreal US security machine
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Police Aviation News December 2003
METROPOLITAN POLICE: <snip>
The first public airing of the new colours was during the recent 4-day State visit to the UK by the
President of the United States George W Bush. This event thrust unprecedented levels of
security on the UK, including air support managing to make available all three of its AS355Ns at
the same time. One is usually permanently in maintenance so the availability of all three caused
some juggling and no doubt some loss of cover at other times. The security levels for the US
President far exceeded those afforded to any other heads of state - including The Queen [who
lives in the same area daily].
Central areas of London were cordoned off and one of the main helicopter routes [H4] was
placed off limits for part of visit. This again is of course the same airspace that is deemed quite
sufficiently secure for the Queen and Government 365 days a year.
The controlling authority for the airspace closure was the Metropolitan Police and they told both
of the main newscopter operators [BBC and Sky] they were not welcome. It was rumoured that
the BBC offered to carry a member of the security services to allow them to fly in the closed
airspace but was turned down. If true, that accommodation had been quite good enough for the
Pope but not for the US Security machine.
Bush, travelling on Air Force One with his wife Laura into a Heathrow airport that itself had
taken on a higher state of security than normal for the visit.
Prince Charles greeted the President before they boarded the US presidential helicopter --
specially imported for the visit -- for the flight to Buckingham Palace.
Ed: Just to underline the effect of the visit, a week later it was reported that Street Crime had
leaped by 25% during the period officers from other areas of London were concentrated on the
security task.
--
As a further note, the US security team also wanted a mini-gun in a truck! That was deemed too far, though.

If Caesar is assassinated, no one will vote for Cheney. He must be preserved at all costs.
Heck, I want a mini gun on a truck too- Any red blooded American would.

Reporter: Mr. President, don't these huge security measures ever disturb you?
Dubya: Well, that'sssss the priccssseee you gotta pay for visssiting the unsssscccivilisscced part of the USssss.
Reporter: But this is Great Britain Mr. President...
Dubya: Ofcourssssccee I know Tony Blair isssscc the Governor of Great Brighton, the 52ssssnd ssssccctate of the USssss! You're overunderesssstimating!
EDIT: Try reading this out loud while "chewing" the "s" like a real texan would do. :p

There are two or three Miniguns in 7.62 NATO for sale in the US.
Last I heard they were going for $100,000 USD each.
Reload your own rounds with the cheapest stuff out there and it will still cost you $400 a second at their rate of fire.

Wouldn't that be more like $400 a minute?
I can see the point of sucking up to foreign heads of state, and spending loads on their visits to impress them, IF there's a big return to be had. So far I don't see a huge return for being in GWB's favour...

There are several places you can get miniguns.
They have several at the machinegun shoot each year.
If you can find 7.62 rounds for .25 cents each it would be $25 per second and $1,500 per min.
That is if its going at its full rate of 6,000rpm

Anthony,
well, GWB hasn't invaded us yet...
Top notch 7.62 costs about 50p a round, so in "high" (10,000 rounds per minute, 166 a second) that works out to be 83 a second. That means with all that I can legally hold, I could fire for a fraction over 3
seconds... At 5000 a minute, I think that would be enough!
Even dirt cheap Arab surplus shite is 15p a round now, so "just" 24.90 a second, or 1200 a minute!
xyz January 5th, 2004, 11:08 PM

I thought they had a maximum of 6000rpm, not 10000
Guinness world records says 6000.
Anyway, IIRC they can be fitted with regulators to bring it down to a more manageable 2000rpm but it would still be bloody expensive.

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Machine-Guns/GE_XM214_Minigun.htm and http://world.guns.ru/machine/minigun-e.htm say up to 10,000, and that's what I thought originally. The exact rate of fire is
largely dependant on the power of the battery involved.
The limiting factor is the melting point of the barrels, and the power requirement, combined with the weight of the ammo.
I would definately have some kind of pressure sensor on the trigger, so the harder I squeezed it, the faster it went!
James January 6th, 2004, 10:32 PM

OT: Recently I traveled (via air) across part of the us with some of my friends. I blew through each of the five security security checkpoints without incident. Three of my friends ran into trouble though. One of
my friends, was got pulled out at four of the checkpoints and wanded. Another friend, had her keychain confiscated. A third friend, had one of his (carryon) bags check several times because it contained odd
shaped stuff. As (probably) the most likely person (I thought) to get pulled out and checked. :p Our bags were checked twice for suspicous chemicals (once on the way out and at another point on the way
back).
Bert January 7th, 2004, 02:43 AM

They took her keychain? Didn't they check her for a cunt bomb? (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13777201_method=full_siteid=89488 _headline=-AL-QAEDA-IN-PLOT-TO-BLOW-UP-
BA-PLANE-name_page.html)
thrall January 7th, 2004, 10:07 AM
Sounds interesting;)!, BTW 404

The link doesn't work any way I've tried except through rotten.com.
Go to rotten.com news (http://www.rotten.com/news/) and look at the first entry for January 5th to see a useable link to the cunt bomb story. Rule #1: Follow All the Rules (http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-
read_article.php?articleId=31825&lang=en)

Wow, I just read the front page of Rotten, and do they have a lot of stuff about the insane (inane?) american security situation...
The link above ("Rule #1") is also incredibly accurate.
The "scissor babe" who "cut through security by being cute" and caused a big fuss, was, in fact, armed with a pair of MANICURE SCISSORS! Oh my god! The babe in question, by the way, was a member of the
AIRPORT SECURITY!!!! Like, WTF? How stupid is the average american? Most of the long-standing frequent posters here are quite intelligent, so please, spill the beans on your fellow americans - I could do
with a laugh.
And to think, I really used to admire the US, and wanted to move over there...

There's plenty of Americans who believe what they see on American TV is reality, and they watch a great deal of TV... Does that help answer your question?

And to think, I really used to admire the US, and wanted to move over there...
Didn't we all, untill they started lying so squarely and it became apparent that the only thing that was really BIG in the US were the governments lies. And the stupidity of the sheeple ofcourse.
A dumb retarded ape like GWB would be laughed at if he applied for presidency in Europe.
Bert February 23rd, 2004, 10:35 PM

Well, it's getting even more surreal here...
Glass seen as potential threat aboard planes (http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_article.php?
articleId=38129&witharticle=1&comments_threshold=0&comments_offset=0&comments_sort_mode=points_desc&comments_maxComments=10&lang=ru)
Apparently, they now will want to keep us from bringing any glass bottles on an airplane. I can just see what would happen to anyone DUMB enough to crack a bottle and start trying to hijack a plane with it.
What happened to Richard Reid would be mild in comparison. For God's sake, hijacking with an edged weapon is a thing of the past, anyone trying it will go down under a human wave attack before they can
finish making their demands known.
Tuatara February 24th, 2004, 02:20 AM

9/11 succeeded beyond anyones wildest dreams. The US sheeple have surely never been in so much terror for so long.
As for the glass - does that mean I have to leave my spectacles at home too?

Bert that link uyou posted is funny.
Be seriously I have no idea why anyone would try hijacking a plane now as all the passengers would simply revolt against hijackers.
Even if the hijacker had AKs they still wouldn't be a match for 100 passengers. As for box cutters anyone with a days hand to hand combat training could disarm a man with box cutters and three people rushing
him would disarm him pretty quick.
infernal February 24th, 2004, 09:36 AM

heh they should start the "war on terror" in the US white house...
Jacks Complete February 28th, 2004, 09:23 AM

Shit, that article is funny... A few converted lighters would do a great job as mini flamethrowers, and I had the idea about the molotov after I saw James Bond do it in a car.
But TWEEZERS? Perhaps for stupid torture, but not for hijackings! Good god! Funny that they have taken boxcutters off the list, and allow them in checked baggage in the hold, though. That leaves them in the
same class as sidearms!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Leaving all my loves behind
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View Full Version : Leaving all my loves behind

I'm going into the Marines in two years and will be leaving all my cannons, mortars, rifles,projects, friends, (my life as I know
it) behind. Well not actually behind I'll need to sell it all.
While working on explosives or weapons I never stop to think that it will soon end. It seems no fun anymore. Now when I get a
great idea of something to build I just think to myself whats the point. In two years EVERYTHING in my life will change. I'm
leaven everything I love behind, but for something more grand.
Anyone else going to be unable to do the things they most love because of moving or job needs or old age, etc.? What will
you do with all the stuff youve made?
I'm not looking for therapy I'm just curious.

I hope you will still impart to us all the knowledge you will gain. Strategy and tactics, small arms skills, and other military gems
still have a place here :)
keith January 5th, 2004, 05:48 PM

There will still be computer access to me(unless I'm sent to Africa like my cousin Josh was):( If any requests for military
suplies were to be made once I'm in the Marines the tooth fairy might mail you it. Find an M16 w/ m203 under your pillow.

once I'm in the Marines the tooth fairy might mail you it. Find an M16 w/ m203 under your pillow.
No thank you.
The tooth fairy might be nice and good, but the sting that's attached to it....
Do you honestly believe you could get away with that??

I seriously doubt he could.
When i was in the military and any of the weapons, NVD or radio equipment came up missing the entire unit went under
lockdown until it was found.
If you were the one who "lost" the item the 100+ pissed off soldiers who want to go party will defenatly convince you to find it.
We had one try the missing M-16 and after the month long lockdown he and his uncle both got 15 years each.
Your best bet is to get in good with your unit armorer/supply seargent.
They can hook you up.

Well hearing that....never mind. But I could buy certain things at cheaper prices than civilians. If .50BMG are outlawed I could
still get em by the 1000's.
Phaid, 30 day lockdown? How long were you in? Army, Marines, what? What was your job?
PHAID January 6th, 2004, 08:53 AM

I was in the Army, 82nd Airborne division for 4 years.
I was infantry, that was many years ago though i got out in the late 80's

Kool. Ever get sent over seas? I probly will as soon as I'm a basic marine. Alota people I know are being sent. I dont mind at
all though.

When I was younger, I ounce thought of getting into the army too.
The problem is, it may all look fun in the beginning, but no training can match the stress and fear of a real battlefield when
bullets roar above your head and cut your mates apart.

vulture, I'm really surprised to hear that you considered joining the army! For me this has never come into question, for the
fact alone that I would have to risk my life or destroy the life of other poeple for what from some nitwit's point of view should
be done. It's awful enough to see what happens in the world regarding politics / war and supporting that would be the least
thing I wanted to pay for with my life. But don't regard this as an insult, I was just astonished...
Rhadon, this was when I was younger, long before 9/11. I went to a rather bad period in my life and I saw no good
alternatives for the future then.
Also, my grandfather once let me fire his airrifle when I was about 12 years old and he thought I had some talent...
That's also the main problem I have with the US army. Most people sign up because they have no future in front of them or
the army is an employer of the last resort for them.
The government gets rid of a social problem this way, because those soldiers get a job and will likely die in battle, effectively
silencing a part of the desperate.
//this might not make sense because I had a bit too much of some fine italian Velio...

Yes i have been to several countries.
No i didnt fight in any battles.
I was in europe when the panama hastle started, Which was funny because we had just finished our jungle warfare training
there a couple months befor.

War and death do not scare me at all.
The only thing that matters in life is an honorable death. I sincerely believe that.
And no man that will not fight and die for his country can give sound reason why he and his family whould be allowed to live
freely in that country Rhadon.

There is nothing wrong with someone making the choice not to serve.
Personaly i think our politicians are morons and 90% of our wars are for their personal agenda and not the country.
Its better to keep your population focused on supposed forign "evil doers" than to have the look and see who is really
screwing things up at home.
I chose military because i wanted the training and experiance.
I do have an issue with anti-war protesters who dont have the balls to even find out what they are protesting and that they
blame the soldiers for doing their job.
The majority of the people crying are usualy the ones who voted in the fool who started the war.

And no man that will not fight and die for his country can give sound reason why he and his family whould be allowed to live
freely in that country Rhadon.Well, that sounds like the argument from the text book, it was a little misplaced though: I never
dissociated myself from defending, but only when my own judgement is behind it.
Dave Angel January 6th, 2004, 09:54 PM

I agree with PHAID and Rhadon on this one. It's one thing to take up arms (improvised or not) against an invading force, but
to attack a country incapable of touching your own, using falsified evidence of "weapons of mass distraction [sic] err
destruction" as a reason is out of order. I would never die for such a cause.

Why is your own judgement not behind it? Is Germany not a great country?

A country and its government can be two different things.

Country means its land, the people within, and its government. Take away any one of these and the counrty can not function.
The only country I could have loved with all my heart and died for without a second thought is Nazi Germany. Not for mass
murder of Jews or other people Himmler was ordered to kill but because of their military might, victorious tactics, the
leadership and control by fear and power of Adolf Hitler, and the system of government they had. By the end of the war Hitler
was spending 4 times as much money on gasing the Jews as he was on his military.....pitty
With that country no longer existing, the best country in the world would probably have to be the US(or Sweden)
Cyclonite January 7th, 2004, 09:03 AM

Im in the Army, only 9 months left out of 4, in getting out. Its not that bad, but I would advise you to seriously consider your
options. Iv been in Iraq and Kuwait for the past 11 months and its not fun. I did get to see lots of stuff since iv been here like
a couple bodies a shit load of UXOs and Iraqi ordanance. Iv been shot at, its not fun but payback is. The pay on deployments
is pretty good, you save alot of cash. If you really like all the disipline poor living conditions and like marching go Marines but
I would advise the Airforce, they treat thier people alot better and you get better pay from going TDY most of the time. In the
Army you deal with alot of bullshit but its not to bad and you get promotions faster. Best of luck, Oh if you like what you do
now go EOD its offered in all the branches. You would need the scores to get in though.
Guerilla January 7th, 2004, 10:41 AM

With that country no longer existing, the best country in the world would probably have to be the US(or Sweden) Well good for
you.. you probably have visited every country of the world and got to known their cultures, in order to end up with that
conclusion? :rolleyes:
War and death do not scare me at all.
The only thing that matters in life is an honorable ...
Hell you must be a very tough guy.. as even none of the veterans I have spoken with or read about have boasted like this.
And they if who would have the right to it. Im truly thankful to these men who fought suffered and sacrificed their health in the
wars and the efforts they gave in rebuilding the country back to its feet. They did not want a war, but when the enemy was
knocking on the border and the diplomatics had no more to say, there were no choice but to grab the guns and confront the
invader. This is why I will carry out armed service - in case of an ultimate threat, which doesnt include the war on terror or other
"precautions defending"...

Soldiers in a war don't WANT to shoot at eachother, they HAVE to.
It's the warchickens in the office that scream "Kill them! Kill them! Or they'll kill you and your family" that makes a soldier kill.
Very few soldiers will actually enjoy killing, atleast not when they see their victims up close.
A nice example of this is that on the 24th of December, 1915, allied and german soldiers left their entrenchments to celebrate
christmas together. They were sharing drinks, food and smokes untill the officers ordered them to get back or be shot
because of desertion.

Keith, I wouldn't like to live in Nazi Germany, really not. But I think that I see what your motives are and can understand that
you also like the US (government / army). And I've got to agree with the others here that it might be a rude awakening for
you when you recognize what you've actually gotten into. Did you already sign?

keith,
you are young. Young people rarely see the world without a strong set of filters that tend to distort.
Have you ever really thought about the effects of killing someone? On the family you tear apart, the lives you destroy?
Have you ever seen the video to "One" by Metallica, or read the book? What if you don't die, but the amazing skill of the
Army surgeons keeps you alive, in a vegetative state for the next 55 years? Living in constant pain because you took a bullet
for some idiot in your platoon? Dying inside, each time you see other vet's get abused by those who never went?
A long time ago, I felt like you. It almost seems like another life. I thought about the life of the soldier, not thinking or
feeling, just doing, and abdicating my responsibility to the human race, and to my self. I went through some heavy shit at
school, for four years. I couldn't take the long view, and I couldn't defend myself, and, eventually, it got to me. Fortunately,
as I entered the last two years, the older gangs left, so I could deal with anyone left, and things got better. I realised that the
last thing I wanted to do was die for someone with half my IQ. I am glad I realised that.
Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a sermon, or anything. Just think about it hard.

I do feel. I have loving people in my life and I am treated very kindly. I have thought about the feeling of killing someone
and I'd do it right now given permission. There is a crack dealer down the street I'd like to put a bullet through with my M40A1
rechambered in .280 Ackely. I have been hunting and shooting my entire life. I can hit a human silhouet at 1000 yards and a
pie plate at 750. Furthest animal killed was 625 yards away. The first coyote I shot didnt die. I had but one round left for my
rifle so instead of shooting him again and wasting the bullet I put a branch over his neck and stood on it, you figure out the
rest. Death neither scares me nor delights me. It's a numb feeling, no feeling. Killing a man is no different than killing a deer,
a coyote, a fox, or an elk. I'm not cold hearted. The kids that go around hurting inocent cats and puppies I'd like to fucking
tear apart limb by limb, sew them up so as to not let them bleed to death, the kill them by their own insanity by cuting off
their eyelids and shouving a glass stir rod up their dick and breaking it with a hammer! I'm a loving person, not like those
kinda people. If I take a bullet for some fool, some sheep in my platoon than I will accept the wound or death as it comes.
Sheep dogs eventually all die for the sheep sometime, most of the time defending them from a pack of wolves.
If my death is honorable by my defenition then it is a good death, which is far more valuble than a good life. If you cant
understand what I'm saying I'm sorry.
It's been my goal since I was about 9yo to be a military sniper. Throught out research Ive decided to join the Marines, go
through training, eventually into recon, then force recon, and hopefully after collage I go to a sniper school in Virginia and
pass with high scores. I know I have it in me and would honestly rather die while in training rather than fail and drop out. The
day I get to hold that Marine Scout/Sniper patch in my hands and mail a spare one home to my father....Almost brings tears
to me now. You have no idea of my devotion, my courage, of me.

Keith, sounds like you'll do quite well in the marines. Careful though, you don't want to get too brainwashed. I'm related to
many marines and they say that School of Infantry is the best part of training. My grandfather parachuted on d-day so I kind
of think about joining sometimes. The military just doesn't seem to be as good as it was in the old days. Once I get a degree
i'm probably much more likely to join the service.
SpiffyVision January 9th, 2004, 06:50 PM

Let us know how it goes Keith, I'd be interested.

Your grandfather must be a great man. I have thought about getting a degree before joining, it would definetly benefit. To be
a sniper you MUST be under a certain age when sniper training begins. I have thought of my options and with the huge
possibility of being sent to another country and delaying me for a year or two I do not have the time. I'll get my degree while
in Recon though. Recon will be fun and will teach me much of what I will need to be a sniper. I have a rifle competition this
summer. It's called Rifles Only. Snipers paradise sponsors it. Many ex-snipers and current military sniper attend this comp so
I guess I'll see where I stand. My father will be my Spotter/Secondary Sniper. He has always been better than me and way
better than all of his shooting friends who all participate im comps but I am now far surpassing them in ability, athletisism,
and even in wisdom. It has really sunk in and has been my life for my entire life. The only thing hindering me is my grades.
I'm in the 10th grade and for the past 5 years gotten nothing but C's D's and a few A's. My GPA is some where around 2.0.
However this quarter and hopefully for the rest of my educational days I will be getting A's and B's. Im really stepping up to
the plate and swinging for the score board now. I wish I had just realized this a few years ago. Although grades help for rank,
knowing Romeo and Juliet or what the names of cells parts are will not help me to put a bullet through a mans heart while
noticing his wedding ring on. My life outside of school has prepared me for that.
For some reason be it luck, skill, or a delightful mixture of both I have always seemed to beat the odds and excel when
needed most. When the pressures on I'm the one to count on. This will show in the military both in training and in combat. My
cousin was class leader of his platoon in basic training, he's a leader you can see it in him and leaders are destined to lead.
Does anyone know how much grades matter in the military? My cousin got C's throughout high school and is moving rank
faster than anyone else around him. He got a chance to tryout for Recon but denied it as he didnt want to leave his friends
and platoon behind.

Grades dont mean shit, when I look aroujnd me its seems like the people that kiss ass get rank faster.....I hate it.. But oh
well

You are in the Marines? What is your rank? Tell me anything you know about Recon, sniper school, anything please.
Well I'm going to keep tryin like hell to get good grades anyways. I'm pretty good at kissin ass so thats good:)
Are the tests in the Marines hard? What are they on?

I wouldnt kiss ass and keep your self respect. Im in the army....I dont have any first hand info on force recon. Most marines
are known as jar heads. They follow orders and dont tend to think out of the box....Tests in the marines are easy, same with
army...Iv seen some of the most brain-dead people in my life in the military. Sniper school in the army is mostly mental,
staying in the same spot for extended periods of time. rolling over to take and shit and rolling right back where you were. I
love shooting and explosives but on my own terms and my own targets, its not as fun when you have to live in some of the
scummiest places in the world for months and months eating MREs and worse food.
nuclearattack January 10th, 2004, 07:29 AM

i'm agree with rhadon and dave angel, i can fight for my family and defend my country but i will never fight for politics,
commercial and other motivations. I respect others point of view but i do not agree with what is happening in the world in this
days (see iraq war, afghanistan and the past vietnam), it is only a war to control resources of others nations. Democracy
doesn't exist for real, it is only a false motivation to control and rule the world.

Nuclear attack. Trust me, the USA does not want to control the world! But when we do, Ill see to it that Italy is fucked:) You
talk about not wanting to control the world...know who Hitlers allies were? Japan, ITALY, and Sweden. Whethere your country
agreed with what he was doing OR was too pussy to fight, you allied him.
The world is only jealous of our freedom, money, and our galliant soldiers.
Well I covertly kiss ass:) and my shit smells good so itll be like a lit candle to me and my spotter:) Ive layed in below freezing
weather for an entire day on the day before opening day watching the same fucking deer or the same fucking tree where he is
at 600 yards and while watching im setting up my shooting cam and concealment and yes rolling over 3 feet to shit and then
back again. After the day is spent and its getting dark the buck will bed down, I will watch him until I see his eyes shut and his
breathing slow knowing he's asleep. I will silently go back to camp, get 4 hours of sleep at most before trecking back(nd since
its now opening day and I can legaly kill him) I stalk up to my same rest in pitch black hours before first light and wait again.
Meanwhile hes been sleeping behind the same god damned bush or pretty close to it. When it is light enough too see across
the canyon(600 yards) I find him somehwere on the slope(he moved during the night about 200 yards down the ridge but to
my advantage, he is now about 475 yards away. I watch his patterns, wait for the perfect shot, I have it, I
squeeze...................BOOM......CRACK! HE goes rolling. YAY! now I have a 100lbs of meat to bring back to the truck:((which is
about 3 hours away)
That was last years hunt, all for a dinky lil 2 point. He taste good though. Im in the Arizona record book for a buck I killed
when I was only 12. My father is in the world record book(Boone and Crocket) twice for two bucks.
Guerilla January 10th, 2004, 07:40 PM

know who Hitlers allies were? Japan, ITALY, and Sweden.
dont teach history to others if you arent familiar with it yourself.. :rolleyes:

Guerilla, you're obviously jealous of his country's freedom, money, and galliant soldiers!
keith, its your life you're playing with. You should listen to Cyclonite and "serioulsy consider your options". I'm just saying this
to appear polite, because I'm sure you aren't going to think about it anyways.

Jealous of your freedom?
I know I could walk out to the street and shout: BUSH IS A GODDAMN FUCKING MORON, SOMEBODY KILL THE HYPOCRITIC
BASTARD! without having the feds knocking on my door half an hour later.
It's not because you make a giant fuzz about freedom, that you've actually got it, quite the contrary.
Jealous of it's money?
Let's see, didn't bush turn a healthy government budget into a negative figure of almost 400 million (or billion?) dollars?
Then why did Bush have to put import tax on European steel? Answer: Because the US steel industry is old and crippled,
because they never had to modernize because of more strict regulations.
How bout the US power grid? Do I even need to go on?
Americans are right if they say they're living the American dream.
That's all it is. A dream.
Oh, and a newsflash for you: Deer don't shoot back. An enemy sniper would have had your brains sticking to a tree in about 5
minutes.

Brazilian steel was taxed too.
Talking about money, on 2003 the USA had a debt of U$ 6,7 trillions (today this debt is around 7 trillions), paying U$ 70
billions of annual interest (9,5%); Brazil, on the other hand, had a debt of U$ 285 billions, paying U$ 50 billions of annual
interest (17,5%). Its easy to be rich that way...

You look at the few problems wrong with my country and not the huge list of things that are great about it. I don't mean to
sound like a war-hungry looser that knows nothing about politics or economics right now so forgive me but....WE'D KICK THE
SHIT OUT OF BELGIUM! There, now if the US is soo bad then I guess Belgium is a shit hole right? You only hear about things
that YOUR news wants you to hear about. Are you an expert in foreign politics? Have you talked to saddam about the money
he gives to terroists? Have you gone to Iraq and seen the terrorists there killing the Jews and there own people for fuck
sakes? Would you have the same ignorant opinion if terrorists parked a fucking car bomb with 800lbs of ANNM that Saddam
payed for in front of your mothers house? Maybe your just a coward......or you arent willing to defend what you love from
anyone....or, maybe you love nothing enough to fight for it.
Please, don't tell me about me going off to another country and dieing because I don't care. You think I havent given it
thought? I cant go to sleep without thinking about it, I cant eat diner without thinking about it. Trust me, I have thought about
it long and hard and will always think about it. I love life and will miss it when its gone but what good is life if you don't follow
your dreams? If my dreams of being a Marine Sniper lands me on a battle feild then.......atleast I tried and gave my life for
something great.

I don't mean to sound like a war-hungry looser that knows nothing about politics or economics right now so forgive me
but....WE'D KICK THE SHIT OUT OF BELGIUM!
I have no doubt the US army would kick the shit out of the Belgian army. So who cares?
There, now if the US is soo bad then I guess Belgium is a shit hole right?
I'm not really following your reasoning, but I guess you're trying to say that because your army would kick the shit out of our
army Belgium is a bad place to live?
Not really. In fact, we have better social security and higher average pays. Also, we don't have as many violent murders a
month as you guys do. About 10% IIRC.
Also, we don't have to shit ourselves about WMDs, carbombs and other shit, because we don't rampage through the world and
say FUCK YOU to everyone who gets in our way.
Are you an expert in foreign politics? Have you talked to saddam about the money he gives to terroists? Have you gone to
Iraq and seen the terrorists there killing the Jews and there own people for fuck sakes?
Have you seen it? Have you been to Iraq, where US soldiers are killing more Iraqis per month than Saddam did? Have you
been to Isreal, which is killing innocent Palestinian children with US military material?
Maybe your just a coward
You know, you just sound like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, who were accusing Powell of cowardice when he wasn't in favor of
the war. Guess who saw a battlefield? Right, Powell.
Who went AWOL? Right, Bush. Nuff Said.
If it is your dream to become a sniper, than by all means, go for it. I'm just warning you that not everything is as shiny on the
inside as it is on the outside.
Since when is being afraid of dying something to be ashamed of? It's a natural hardwired reflex to try and prevent your death
by evading dangerous situations.
So, since you're not afraid to die, I guess you will be going to battle without flat jacket and helmet?

No, Ill have my helmet and flak(not flat) jacket on if the situation calls for it. Meanwhile, youll be hiding under your bed.
Being affraid to die isnt natural when all that you stand for is at risk of being taken away! So I sound like the leaders of the
greatest country I the world, you sound like some pot head anti-war protester. Have I seen Iraq? Am I a econamical expert?
No, so I listen to those who have and are instead of basing my opinion on nothing but the one-sided news. So we police the
world, is there no police in your country? Yea I'd bet sometimes they piss you off but you damn sure know you couldnt live
without em!
Maybe we shouldnt have entered WWll. You would have had it that way huh. Let Hitler gas you and burn your children. If we
abused the small countries as we saw fit and hid from the bigger wars where we will undoubtably lose many soldiers then I'd
agree we are bullies, but that's not the case. We are the ones who stop rogue countries from raping other smaller
countries(Vietnam,Korea) We had huge casualties! Our sons, brothers, and Fathers died for none Americans on foreign soil ,
do you know why, because it was the right thing to do, something your country would never do!

You look at the few problems wrong with my country and not the huge list of things that are great about it. I don't mean to
sound like a war-hungry looser that knows nothing about politics or economics right now so forgive me but....WE'D KICK THE
SHIT OUT OF BELGIUM! There, now if the US is soo bad then I guess Belgium is a shit hole right? You only hear about things
that YOUR news wants you to hear about. Are you an expert in foreign politics? Have you talked to saddam about the money
he gives to terroists? Have you gone to Iraq and seen the terrorists there killing the Jews and there own people for fuck
sakes? Would you have the same ignorant opinion if terrorists parked a fucking car bomb with 800lbs of ANNM that Saddam
payed for in front of your mothers house? Maybe your just a coward......or you arent willing to defend what you love from
anyone....or, maybe you love nothing enough to fight for it.
Please, Dont tell me about me going off to another country and dieing because I don't care. You think I havent given it
thought? I cant go to sleep without thinking about it, I cant eat diner without thinking about it. Trust me, I have thought about
it long and hard and will always think about it. I love life and will miss it when its gone but what good is life if you don't follow
your dreams? If my dreams land me on a battle feild then.......atleast I tried and gave my life for something good.

So I sound like the leaders of the greatest country I the world, you sound like some pot head anti-war protester.
I have another newsflash for you: You're namecalling. Generally such tactics are not used by people who advocate the
unbiased truth. It only weakens your arguments, because namecalling is the emergency break out of a discussion.
Being affraid to die isnt natural when all that you stand for is at risk of being taken away!
Since when am I at risk being taken away? Oooh, I forgot, we don't have a color coded terror chart over here! Geez, Belgium
really sucks, doesn't it?
So we police the world, is there no police in your country?
Yes, we have police. Only, the police here arrests every criminal, not only the ones with toys that the police officers would like
to have.
Maybe we shouldnt have entered WWll. You would have had it that way huh. Let Hitler gas you and burn your children.
There we go again. First of all, Hitler gassed jews. Not every European. Also, life generally continued in the occupied countries,
because Hitlers army just rolled in and took us without very much resistance. That meant not much destruction and death.
Hitler didn't bomb our cities to dust and then expected us to welcome his soldiers as liberators. :rolleyes:
If we abused the small countries as we saw fit and hid from the bigger wars where we will undoubtably lose many soldiers then
I'd agree we are bullies, but that's not the case.
Really? Then why aren't you attacking North Korea. They admitted they have launch capable WMDs. Your boys are still digging
in the sand in Iraq whilst finding nothing but oil. They won't find oil if they go digging in North Korea though.
That leads me to another interesting point. Do you know who sold the nuclear reactors to North Korea in the first place?
Rumsfelds company. Who's company was punished for doing bussiness with Iraq in 1998? Dick Cheney's. Who supplied Iraq
with WMD precursors in the 80's?

Well there were several things in that post as in the other one that was incorrect and I could comment on but instead Ill just
say this....It takes all kinds to make the world go around, your kind, their kind, even my kind. We all balance everything out.
Say for a moment you are right about us. Maybe Bush only wants oil, maybe he'd rather we had the oil rather than a terror
based nation. If we are big and powerful enough to take something from someone than fine. Really, fine. Is Belgium going to
stop us? No I think not. Will other countries try to stop us? No probably not because it would be both our deaths. If you are
affraid of us taking most of the oil in the world, then move here. By all means come on over. You can live in my guest room
for a while if needed.
Im sick of arguing and that is not what this thread was created for. Please, dont post in it any more. Good day to you sir.

keith:
Im sick of arguing and that is not what this thread was created for. Please, dont post in it any more. You're the last one to tell
people when they have to stop posting. You're here since October 2003 and think you can give orders to senior members?
Let Hitler gas you and burn your children.
I seriously considered banning you for that one. Posting in the Water Cooler doesn't save you from getting banned if you
insult other members. Say something remotely that stupid and I'll make it true.

Sorry I didnt mean to do that about him not being able to post but we werent getting anywhere, just arguing. I didnt tell him
he couldnt, only asked him not too.
The thing about Hitler, well, it made sence in the actually post but when it's quoted like that it looks quite mean. Again sorry.
You will have no more trouble from me.
I really hope so.
Flake2m January 10th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Keith: SHUT THE FUCK UP you have already had enough input into this thread.
Maybe by joining the Marines learn some:
Discipline - open your mouth and they'll make you do 200 push-ups in the rain, answer back and you'll do another 200.
A purpose - your purpose is to do what your commanding officer tells you to do. You are to not think individually but to listen
and obey to only the voice of your commanding officer.
Skills - You learn how to shoot, how to survive. How to kill. In the mean time, a profile is being built up of abilities and
personal traits.

Flake2m, I should hope I have enough into this thread...I started it. I didnt just open my mouth, I was defending the name
of the great country I live in from a person that was putting it down. I said some things I shouldn't have and it will not happen
again, sir. 400 push ups? You got it. No they dont want you to just be a mindles zombie unless your a grunt....Much of my
family is in the military, I have a pretty good idea of how it works.
Well it was nice discussing much of the things I have with most of the people in this thread. Bye all and good day.
EP January 11th, 2004, 04:30 AM

I'm not going to get too far into this, but keith, I know you think you are a big, brave, tough guy, and want some action. You
probably won't enjoy it once you have to kill somebody and have somebody try to kill you:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3868907/
Hope it goes ok for you, but you need to open your eyes a bit.

I have to agree with EP.
In a way, I admire your faith, the big, powerful thing you are part of. But realistically, you sound brainwashed. The old lie -
dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. No ones' life is worth your own, not the scum stealing your car, no politician, no jumped
up, clueless officer. Arguably, the only exception is sacrificing your life to allow a loved one to continue theirs. That person
loves you back, they gave you a lot during your life, so in a way you've both earnt each others sacrifice. Your country will never
love you like that. Look at all the war vets who get practically spat on every day.
You accuse vulture of not knowing what he's talking about, but how could you be any different? Is the media somehow more
truthful in the US?

World War II's psychologists termed it battle fatigue, and Vietnam's shrinks coined the terms traumatic stress and
posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Today, the preferred term is combat stress, and the military has an official policy for
dealing with it in the field, as close as po ssible to the fighting.
See keith, even the military thinks it's normal for soldiers to be afraid of dying and have fear.
A healthy dose of fear will have you survive longer than blind rampaging braveness.
At 58, he's also a Vietnam veteran himself, a rarity among troops in Iraq. "There's a lot of macho attitude here," he says.
Among the Vietnam vets he sees back home, some "took 15 years to deal with their feelings about killing somebody," he
says. "We have vets who for years said 'counseling is not for me' and then had to eat humble pie."
You do respect your vets, don't you?
EDIT: Keith, I'm not in favor for banning you and I can take alot of abuse in a discussion. Nevertheless, you should consider
spending a little more time on your posts and thinking them over. Like I said before, namecalling only weakens your point.
I wish you good luck in your military career and may you return from battle safely.
You see, I think every dead soldier is one too many, even if they're fighting against me or against my cause.
kingspaz January 11th, 2004, 07:26 PM

keith, after skimming over this thread i'm quite disgusted that you are such a cunt. lets look at the big picture:
1. how many people who aren't american like america. not a great deal. obviously because you think its so great and most of
the world doesn't think it is you HAVE to be right because millions of people are all wrong.
2. as has been stated, you sound like a typical brainwashed american. at the end of the day nobody gives a shit if you die.
bush doesn't give a shit. everybody in america part from you family doesn't give a shit. your death would be meaningless and
fruitless. i can see it now, keith recieves the order to charge out from behind the side of the APC whilst under enemy fire.
adrenaline is pumping, hearts racing. he sprints out straight onto a landmine. BOOM! legs blasted off. now what? keith dies
and is forgotten just like everybody who dies is. the sad part of the story isn't his death but the fact he died thinking it was a
help. its not a help unless your country is under direct attack.
3. what makes your country so great? because you think it doesn't make it so.
4. you will die at someone elses hands under someone elses terms. if thats what you want go for it.
i advise you to try and think of the bigger picture and try a taste of reality instead of the dumbed down distorted view are used
to being fed. if you're being FORCE fed its for a reason...
if you EVER insult somebody intentionally again then let a noose be placed around your neck you will hang immortalised in the
BFL section.

You can't even start your sentences with capital letters......
Ever live in America? How can you judge it or me? Thats your problem, you "skim".
It seems everyone here is mad at me so this will be my last post. If anyone cares, I'm the one that had been talking about
the new cannon in the improvised weapons forum in the cannons, mortars, and howitzers thread. I tested the cannon today
and it was everything I had hoped. I shot it six times at 4 feet, 50 yards, 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, and 1500 yards. I
only used 40 grams of pyrodex in this cannon. It would have easily withstood more than 100 grams of pyrodex with 50 grams
of DBSP(AANo.7) but 40 grams is enough just to have some fun with. I also tested a brick charge of NG/NC 30g/40g. I had no
dets so I taped it to a tree and shot it with a .22. It detonated first shot, made a big fireball and shook the ground alittle. It
did little damage to the tree(big tree)
I Wont have much time to build weapons or HE's anymore. I need to concentrate on school, sports, shooting, the rest of my
life. I live in the great state of AZ, if anyone lives here I'm going to be selling my cannons and stuff at the next gun show in
Phoenix if you want a great deal on fuse, cannon peices(the small ones), and some gunsmithing tools.
Well heres where I get banned.

Bye and good day:)
Oh BTW, look for me in the Rifles Only competition in the summer of 05. I talked to the couple that owns the ranch in Texas
and hosts the comp. There is no age groups or age requirements:)
Oh hey King-Spaz, stay away from the horazontal and the vertical;)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and quote Mr. Cool.
Keith,
"You're a COCK! Go away!"
There's my two cents.
Edit- I saw you're origional post, which consisted of you're first sentence:
You can't even your sentences with capital letters......
You on the other hand, can't even form a coherent sentence
irish January 11th, 2004, 11:27 PM

That last post will get an interesting response when a Mod next has a look :D . At least the wanker has gone away now
:rolleyes: .
Edit= I am referring to the last post by Keith not Hang-Man

;) .

This thread should be locked.....

I have been to New Zealand, Many places in Aus, the US, Britain, Dublin, China, Honk Kong and Singapore and I have to say
out of all those places I would only ever live in Australia, and perhaps some parts of London. Quite simply I thought the US
was ok but several things struck me:
-In LA the polloution was so thick I could barely see a kilometer, it was horrible, that and there was trash basically lining the
freeways. Also a majority of vehicles on the freeways were huge petrol eating monsters that were only fucking the environment
more. I was walking down some street in LA and looking at shops that I couldn't afford to enter, which was a pretty harsh
contrast to the slums I past on the bus from the airport.
-While watching TV I noticed that there was NOTHING there that delt with international politics, I only ever saw domestic issues,
most of which were total crap anyway. In fact I was lucky to see our Prime Minister on TV there, but only when he was talking
about how much he supported the US like the spinless bootlick he is.
-In and around NY, expecially time square people just walk across the road, while the lights arn't even green, they just walk
across whenever they feel like it as a pack, not hard to see why people don't want to see international news on TV when they
don't want even to look where they are walking.
-I never saw ONE white person doing a menial job in NY or LA, I made sure to have a look at every McDonalds worker I saw in
each of those two cities I went to and they were all Black. My friend and I made a game of spotting the first black person in a
suit as we were driving past wall street, I lost when he spotted one, after about a half hour of driving.
I'm not saying that Australia is perfect, but I can't understand how Americans can be so patriotic when they clearly don't get
much of a look at the world, have you ever been to Aus? and yet I can imagine that if I asked you if you would rather live in
the US than Aus I know what you would say. I can understand love for ones country, but that is really meaningless unless you
have good reason to love it. Travel a bit and see what you like before putting your heart behind something that you have
been told your entire life to love simply because you have nothing else to judge it on.

That's the end of keith's short visit. I should have banned him at once when he fucked up for the first time but that's how he
appreciates leniency. Hopefully he enjoyed it, because he won't get it in real life...
I'll leave the presentation of the rest of the banning ceremony to kingspaz :D.

Quite typical how people who strongly support Bush and the other neoconservative hawks always bail out of a discussion by
namecalling and kicking around when they're being confronted by reasonable arguments...
I guess that's just coincedence though...:rolleyes:

well, lets hope he will one day get to give bush head. he so wants to. seriously though, wait, i was being serious, as i've
already stated he WILL die and nobody will give a shit. the amusing part is he thinks they will :D
oh yer, i found a pic of keith after he tries to stop the great number of countries and 'terrorists' who are trying to take over the
US.
http://www.suicidemethods.net/pix/roadkill.gif
EP January 14th, 2004, 09:56 PM

I know keith is gone now, but I'll post this anyway:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040114_2047.html
More tough guy stuff...

Blackhawk, the next time you're in the U.S. look more at our countryside. Most large
U.S. cities are shitholes. That's why I avoid them. My great uncle visited Australia
many years ago and had nothing but disparaging remarks about it. I won't take his
word for it as I've never been there and my uncle usually bitched about everything
anyway. I want to see it for myself ! As for Keith, it's apparent that he's young and
inexperienced. I hope he doesn't learn about life the hard way. Keith needs to
understand that people have a right to their opinions and shouldn't be insulted for
expressing them. It's true that Vulture and I would probably disagree on just about
all political issues, particularly those concerning George Bush, but I respect his
opinion in any event.

It's true that Vulture and I would probably disagree on just about
all political issues, particularly those concerning George Bush, but I respect his
opinion in any event.
Goddamn! You completely flabbergasted me with that statement! I thought I'd never met a person who supported GWB who'd
actually be capable of a intelligent discussion without namecalling.
You're a refreshing change. Thank you.

tmp: Yes when I was there I was a bit dissapointed but I assumed that it was because I was only ever in big cities, I think the
only way I would get a realistic look at what it would be like to LIVE there is if I stayed for a few weeks at a realatives house or
similar. You should take a holiday down here some time :D I try not to pass judgements on places I haven't been too, so I
tend to travel a lot.

Yes, I want to travel to other places in the world. In particular, I want to
visit the lands of my ancestors. For me that's France, Germany, Ireland,
Scotland, and Spain if I'm reading the family trees correctly. My travel
won't be limited to these places however. I've wanted to visit places like
Australia and New Zealand especially after seeing some of the beautiful
photography of these countries.
I live between Baltimore, Maryland and Washington D.C. - 2 of the biggest shitholes in the United States.
As for Keith, he really needs to grow up. Maybe the Marines will kick his
ass hard in boot camp and he'll learn some respect for other people.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Your, Trigger/Motivation/
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scizzor January 5th, 2004, 09:35 AM

I CAME ACR OSS THIS SOMEWHERE IN LIFE AND HELD ON TO PASS ON.
No, good frie nds, there are two kinds of people in this world:
1: There are the criminals. These are the ones we know and love, who know that the world is a harsh, hard, unforgiving place,
where "good" is just an illusion, where it's dog-eat-dog, and any sign of weakness is an in vitation to disaster. We have taken
this unsubtle truth to heart, that the weak exist to be used and abused by the strong.
2 : T h e n t h e r e ' s e v e r y o n e e l s e . Those who blind them se lves with the illusion that people are inherently good, that honesty is
im portant, that lying, cheating and mu rdering are to be avoided at all costs. These are pe o p l e d e t e r m i n e d t o b e s l a v e s . T h e s e
are the ones we call "Sheep".
No middle ground can exist between these two, and without Sheep, crim inals would not exist. W ho else would we prey upon?
Each other? Indeed, there are quite a few crim inals who prey upon others, but without the Sheep to m a k e u p a s t a b l e b a s e t o
the food-chain, crime would collapse like a house of cards.
Let us not forget the importance of the Sheep to our very existance. W e can use the electoral process to tu rn them into better,
m ore productive, and even m ore important, less resista n t s h e e p .
So let "Leash the Sheep!" be our battle cry. The less they are able to defend them selves, the less they are able to resist, and
the m o r e C R I M E W I L L F L O URISH!!!!

Y o u ' r e a s s u m ing everyone on this board is a voluntary criminal :mad:
Like it or not, you still have to live m id st the sheeple. And you won't say no to a hottie sheeple that wants to fuck you either.

T s k , t s k . I m ust laugh at how for exam p l e s a k e s y o u u s e d s e x . W h y d i d n ' t y o u u s e s o m e o t h e r d e s i r a b l e n o t i o n ? P e r h a p s t h i s
will be useful. ;) http://www.sexaa.org/
S c i z z o r ; Y o u s p e a k o f s h e e p , b u t h a v e you eve r applied the thought that you may be part of the h erd? By creating such a
thread you m ust associate this forum with crim inals? Meaning.. this board has to do with crim e to attract on ly crim inals? I think
not. I'm sure others would gla dly explain to you exactly what this forum is about m uch better than I can, so I'll leave it to
them.
And I MUST disagree with your perception of people. You can never be that cut and dry with such a topic as society. Society
differs dram aticly drawing layers upon layers of different types of people. Good, bad and the m any m any levels inbetween.
T a k e m y s e l f f o r e x a m ple. I avoid lying, cheating and m urdering all together because I see it as 'im moral'. BUT... again, I'm
not cut and dry with it. There's m any situations where each and everyone o f t h e s e b e c o m e s m oral to do given the situation.
P.S. - vulture, just playing. :)

Dam mit IDTB, you busted me there! :o
I u s e d s e x b e c a u s e h e s e e m e d l i k e a P E T T Y p l a y e r t o m e , s m all crim inal trying to im p r e s s p e o p l e ( i n c l u d i n g s h e e p l e ! ) a n d

m ost im portantly chicks, with his tuff actions.

I'm not sure about what that OP is getting at, but I think it is som ething along the lines of "All politicians are crim inals,
including the one that wrote this".
As for sexaa.org, that m ust be a really great place to pick up chicks!

Yes I would think there would som ehow be an inherrent undercurrent in the guys that attend such m eetings. It is a bit weird to
h a v e b o t h m e n a n d w o m e n t h ere together, that must be like holding an AA m eeting in a pub :/

I quite literally burste d out laughing after read Jack's Com plete and Blackhawk's replies. So true, so true! The 'AA m e e t i n g i n a
pub' was great. ;)

This thread was started for you to m ake friends it's obvious. You tried to rally us with a no b l e s p e a ch. Tried to show us
your(what you think is)wisdom .
Shoulda called the crim inals wolves.(you) And I'm a f f r a i d t h e r e I s a m i d d l e c l a s s , t h e s h e e p d o g s ( m e) W e t e n d t o t h e s h e e p
who rely on us without knowing it. We protect them from the sha dows, from the light, and from the mselves. Yes, we n o b l e
s h e e p d o g s m ake food out of the wolves. We wear the sam e clo thes, eat the sam e f o o d , a n d l i v e i n t h e s a m e p l a c e a s t h e
sheep, waiting, watching, and learning while wearing our disguises until the times com es to do what we were bread to do.
If I am wrong,(NEVER!) what was your point to this new thread?

Lucky it's in The Water Cooler.
scizzor January 7th, 2004, 05:27 AM
Yes, Keith. Like I said."cam e across it". I did like it. I thought people would post different "rally's",motivation speaches they
c a m e a c r o s s , a n d I d o h a v e t o a d m it, IDTB's post with the site is hilarious. W hat you posted in your thread is very
interesting,and greatly added I m ust note,always great to get a different prospective to shed new light i couldnt see .
Anthony January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 5 9 P M

By starting a rally, almost a war-cry, you're insinuating that you're a leader. Som eone who know's what they're talking about,
s o m eone worth following. W hy would anyone believe you, or think that you're not some punk kid with no idea or balls?
Keith, what real-life experiences lead you to think that you're a sheep dog?
frogfot January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 5 2 P M

Huh, I thoat Keith was ironic there..
A n d I a m the ground that you walk on! try beating this.. :p
IDTB, totally agree with you. There are just to many people to fit som e s i m p l e d e scription.. and it's just stu pid to co me up with
s o m e elit hum an class that one thinks one belong there. ..that way everyone is e lite, since everyone thinks they're greatest..
no kidding :p

W ell I obviously didn't mean it literaly and alls I ment by it was that I am neither a crim i n a l , n o r a m i n d l e s s h e e p . T h e r e a r e n t
just crim i n a l s a n d e v r y o n e e l s e a s I s a id before. So, seeing as how you dont agree with m e, tell me, which are you? A crim inal
or a mindless sheep?
W hat real life experiences ma k e m e f e e l a s t h o u g h I t a k e u p t h e r o l e o f a s h e e p d o g i n t h e w o r l d o f s h e e p , s h e e p d o g s a n d
wolves? The fact that I am not a sheep, not a criminal, and I am joining the Marines in two years when the times co m e s . S o ,
then I will be a gaurd of the sheep against the crim i n a l s . M a y b e I m isunderstood what this thread was about....sorry.
vulture January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 3 3 P M

I a m joining the Marines in two years when the times co mes. So, then I will be a gaurd of the sheep against the criminals
Strange. Did terrorists suddenly get prom oted to criminals? So they can go to court and have a lawyer? Because now all those
g u y s a t G u a n t a n a m o a r e " e n e m y c o m battants"...:rolleyes:
Really, m arines fighting crime....There's an old saying in Europe: That has to com e from over the ocean...:rolleyes:

Marines fight a kind of international crime, ethnic cleansing-genocide, leaders usurping another country for their benefit, to
keep crazy dictators from gaining enough powe r to whipe out an entire counrty, etc. These "crimes" are slightly more
dangerous to the world than o h say, shoplifting wouldnt you agree?
gliper January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 4 7 P M

Marines swear an oath to basicly do what ever thry are told and som e thing you can fully expect to be ordered to do is (help)
usurp another country for the benefit of US ( or whatever county your fighting for 's) bussness and political eleat buy killing,
im prisioning and "interigating" other "sheap do gs".
The last statistics I saw we have killed far m o r e n o n c o m b a t a n t s t h a n " c r i m a n a l s "
scizzor i am afrade that lying, cheating and mu rdering often lead to im prisionm ent, ass raping, std s, and when you get out
m ore of the sam e o r m i n a m u m wage and difaculty finding housing, unless the said evil behaver is clocked behind a uniform
(police ext.) in which case you follow orders and may not get to do what you wanted to anyway.
vulture January 11th , 2004, 10:28 AM

Sure, they fight SOME of the international crim inals. But, som e big crim in als in the world haven't got m uch that the police (US)
could use, so the world police tends to leave them a l o n e . . .
O h a n d g l i p e r, RTFM your keyboard m a n u a l !
warren January 11th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 0 9 P M

So what are police and the FED's? They are not mindless ship but they are not crim inals so what would they be considered as?
Aswell as the h e a d o f t h e m ilitary is definately not a m indless sheep nor is he a criminal.
megalomania January 11th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 2 9 P M

Perhaps a better definition of what "crim inal" m eans is in order. Get the notion out of your heads that whatever the US or EU
passes for a law is so mehow just or rig ht. Laws can be evil, they can be incorrect, they can be plain ridiculous. The p hilosophy
of law is what you should consider here, there are ultim ately som e absolute truths to law that the ten comm a n d m ents really
touch upon. I am not religious or anything, but the com m a n d m ents really distill the essence of law down a good bit.
Is it not criminal to kill or hurt another man? Does this not include soldiers and m ilitary com m anders? So these troo ps
h o u s i n g terrorists at Gitm o are just as crim inal in an ab s o l u t e s e n s e a s the crim inals they hold captive. W e r e c o g n i z e t h e
necessity o f beating, im prisoning, killing, and depriving the righ ts of the s e crim inals because it is the easiest way to deal with
the situation.
S o t h e n w e c a n e x t e n d o u r d e f inition of what is crim inal to include all those who def y t h e c o n v e n t i o n s o f s ociety at large. W e
would call them devia nts, but other societies have labeled them crim inal. W ould it not be crim inal today to desire a
d e m ocratic governme n t i n C h i n a ? W o u ld it not be criminal to allow an unescorted woman to parade through Iran with her
face uncovered? Would it not be a crim e punishable by death to accidentally kill someone with a car in the Mideast? W ould it
n o t b e a g r a v e crim e t o n o t g o t o class in your school, or would it n o t b e a p u n i s h a b le o f f e n s e t o s p e ak without raising your
h a n d , c h e w g u m , or leave without perm i s s i o n t o g o t o t h e b a t h r o o m ? T h e s e crim es d o n o t a f f e c t u s a l l , b u t t h e y are crim e s
n o n e t h e l e s s s o m ewhere in the world.
The sheep follow the laws, and the rules, whatever they might be. They accept the way things are always, without question.
That is the definition of a sheep. As wolves we defy the status quo, we object to the rules, or laws because we have our own
view of what is right. Not every wolf need defy every law or rule a ll the tim e, but to defy on e is the essence of the wolf. In this
way we have a sharp dividing line between the sheep and the wolves, there is no gray, although there may be levels. The
sheep always obey, the wolves do not always obey. Is it not wrong to require a schoolchild to raise his hand to get perm issio n
to go to the bathroom ? This e x e m p l i f i e s t h e o t h e r s i d e o f t h e c o i n : T h e w o l v e s a r e a l s o t h e o n e s m a k i n g t h e r u l e s , a n d t h e
laws. They have the power, the teeth, to m ake you obey, or their will be consequences. Only another wolf can defy a wolf, not a
s h e e p . T h e s h e e p c a n n o t m ake rules or laws because they cannot enforce them.
Call it defiance, call it devience, call it crim inal n o o n e l i k e s t o h a v e their au thority q uestione d o r c h a l l e n g e d . T o d o s o is t o b e
the wolf. C all it arrogance, call it predatory, call it autho ritarian people like t o rule others. To d o s o i s t o b e t h e w o l f .
nbk2000 January 12th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 0 5 P M

INSPIRATIO N! :D
A new m a n a g m ent-te chnique book called:
" T o b e t h e W olf: Leading the herd by nipping their haunches!"
;)
zyk43 January 12th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 4 3 P M

I think that a few interesting points are raised
1. The fact that not so long ago what we enjoy doing wo uld have been looked up to in society. O u r s k i l l s w o u l d h a v e b e e n s e e n
a s v a l u a b l e , e s s e n t i a l a d d i t o i n a s y e t n ow people shun them , society has sterilised itself of these things, hiding weapons
m anufacture behind the doors of giant corporations. Almost pretending it doesnt exist
2 . S e e m s like while in the past society would have been led by wolves wh o would have used their skills to expand and furthe r
the societies ends. now it almost seem s like its being let by sheep. It alm ost see m s l i k e d e m ocracy self destructing. There are
m o r e s h e e p t h a n w o l v e s a n d d e m ocracy allows sheep to choose who leads them, so they choose a n o t h e r s h e e p a s t h e y d o n t
want to get bitten. Th e s h e e p i n c h a r g e p a s s e s m ore laws to pro tect the rest of the sheep from the wolves (outlawin g the right
to protect yourself by making weapons illegal is a good example) and we end up in a vicious circle which unless changed cant
l e a d anywhere other than self destruction.
IDTB January 12th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 3 3 P M

Your tim eless wit hears it's ugly head once again. ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Where to get the components for Bp in england?
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View Full Version : Where to get the components for Bp in england?
cyberdweeb January 5th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Does anyone know where I could get Potassium nitrate and Sulphur in England?

I had a really bad feeling approving this post, but it's in the water cooler so what shall I do... he's ready for your input :D

I think I can get KNO3 from fertiliser but I have no idea where I can get sulphur.
thanks for allowing my post.

Hmmz.
It's no fun anymore when you invite us to flame him Rhadon. Kills my inspiration...:(
He's a dweeb allright.

I'm going to be nice and say that garden centres are wonderful places for chems, have a good look there. I does really go without saying but I'll say it anyway - don't buy all
the components at once.
Also, it is customary to search both The Forum and the net for sources rather than ask for instant answers.

Just to make that clear: I have to strictly dissociate myself from inviting anyone, especially you vulture, to flame cyberdweeb.
Better now :D?
zeocrash January 7th, 2004, 03:47 PM

slap slap slap slap, what are you, a retard?? everyone knows that eggs are a good source of sulphur
wrench352 January 7th, 2004, 03:59 PM

IIRC,a good source of sulfur,is in the inside of flagpoles.You can either cut one down with a hack saw,or try and find a place that sells flagpoles.You dont want the small
ones,only the larger ones will do.I wish I could claim this idea as my own perhaps one of the mods can help me out.

wrench352, isn't that just overkill? Normally I try to leave them standing. I drill a series of holes near the base of the flagpole until I can remove a section of the 'outer
cladding', the I re-insert it so that it forms a sort of shute. I then use a piece of wire or a thin piece of metal to scrape the sulphur out. It just falls into a bucket I place beneath
the shute with this set-up.
I hope that helps cyberdweeb and hopefully you have learnt something as well wrench. ;)

well none I hope none of you who suggested stupid things like flag poles seriously thought i was going to believe you because if you did you should think about how intelligent
you are before insulting my intelligence. and thanks for the tip dave.

Oh and if this thread is so lame then why dont you ignore it?
and I thought these forums were here to be helpful.

I'm going to tell you a little secret.
Pssst.
Make sure the thought police won't hear it.
Come closer!
Allright, here it is. Pigeon shit contains salpeter, which is an important precursor to KNO3. Now, the salpeter isn't pure enough for synthesis of KNO3, so we need to purify it by
washing it with large amounts of piss. After we've done that, we heat the extract to produce ureanitrate, which is the next important precursor.
Now that's done, we add citric acid to the piss to achieve sour piss. Taste carefully and make sure the taste resembles that of too long contained diarrhoea.
At this point, autodecomposition will start, ofgassing large amounts of laughing gas, which you can use to get high on.
When you've come back from your trip, precipitate the KNO3 with horse shit.
bobo January 7th, 2004, 06:21 PM

On a side note, I wonder what they use sulfur for. Actually, I bought mine at a brewery/cheesemaking/winemaking/... kind of shop, in nice 1 kg bags. Also, I know the agri
shop have it in large bags. bu why do they need it? Why don't they need phosphorus?;)

Sulfur is used to acidify soil that is too alkaline. Also dusted on plants to kill fungus. Phosphorous is needed as a fertilizer but it's never used in elemental form for this.
zeocrash January 8th, 2004, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by cyberdweeb
Oh and if this thread is so lame then why dont you ignore it?
and I thought these forums were here to be helpful.
there's a difference between helpful and spoonfeeding.
spoonfeeding is what you do with retards, like yourself.
helpful involves the person also doing something

Starting a new thread with a question on your first post,double posting,asking before searching.I'd watch your step cyberdweeb,if you want to hang here.You've now been
noticed muthafucka,just cause your in the cooler dont think your ass cant get HED or banned the fuck out of here.If we questioned your intelligence,its only for obvious
reasons.
Im watching you
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Wild Catmage January 8th, 2004, 10:51 AM

If you tried searching the forum, you'd have found a goldmine of information on BP.
For BP, you need charcoal, sulphur and potassium nitrate (you can search the forum to find the ratios). Sodium nitrate can be used as a substitute for the potassium nitrate, but
the weight ratio will need to be changed to allow for the lighter atomic mass of the sodium nitrate.
Charcoal is easy to get, you've probably already found a source of this.
Sulphur is sold as a fungicide in most garden centres, and comes as a fairly fine powder, although there may be some large crystals in it.
I've found that sodium nitrate is easier to find in the UK than potassium nitrate. It is available at garden centres, and at some hardware stores with a gardening department. It
costs around 2 per kilo.
Potassium nitrate can be ordered from some pharmacies (e.g. Lloyd's) but it costs about 12 for a meager 500g (although the purity will be very high).
A pestle and mortar, ball mill, coffee grinder etc. is recommended for grinding the ingedients to fine powders, before mixing, just make sure not to grind them together. i
currently use a pestle and mortar, which involves some time and effort, but the results have been pretty good.
Mr Cool January 8th, 2004, 05:11 PM

Why don't you just pull the ingredients out of your ass like everyone else? That's the easiest way.

hey don't laugh, I read a really cool book about rocketry through the ages that had a big section devoted to early manufacturing methods of KNO3, involving urine and dung
heaps ;) That is always an option if you can't find any but there is probably always a better way :D

Blackhawk,
that is where part of Vultures flame comes from... I also heard about a way to get sodium and potassium nitrate from soil, again, using urine as the solvent/reagent.
Of course, captain newbie, the OP, will think I am taking the piss. But that would be silly, as I already have all the saltpetre I need...

Message for cyberdweeb:
STFU (http://users.pandora.be/bauknecht/Forumshit/stop_whining.jpg) Jesus loves you (http://users.pandora.be/bauknecht/Forumshit/jesusthinksuacunt.gif)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Einstein's Riddle
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View Full Version : Einstein's Riddle
Zykaz January 5th, 2004, 06:07 PM

How many of you can get it? I'm pretty sure I figured out the answer. If you're really desperate for the answer and can't figure
i t o u t , g o a h e a d a n d s e n d m e an email, and I'll reply with my answer.
----------------------
T h e r e a r e 5 h o u s e s o f 5 different colors. In each house lives a person of a different nationality. Ea ch of the 5 residents drinks
a certain type of beverage, sm o k e s a c e r t a i n b r a n d o f c i g a r , a n d k e e p s a c e r t a i n p e t . N o n e o f t h e m h a v e t h e s a m e pet, sm o k e
t h e s a m e brand of cigar or drink the sam e b e v e r a g e .
T h e q u e s t i o n i s : W h o owns the fish?
Hints:
- The Brit lives in the red house.

- The Swede keeps dogs as pets.
- The Dane drinks tea.
- The g r e e n h o u s e i s o n t h e l e f t o f t h e white house.
- The resident of the green house drinks coffee.
- The p e r s o n who smokes Pall Mall rears birds.
- The resident of the yellow house sm o k e s D u n h i l l .
- The resident of the center house drinks m ilk.
- The Norwegian lives in the first house.
- The person who smokes Blends lives next to the one who keeps cats.
- The p e r s o n who keeps the h orse lives next to the one who smokes Dunhill.
- The p e r s o n w h o s m o k e s B l u e m asters drinks beer.
- The G e r m a n s m o k e s Prince.
- The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.
- The p e r s o n who smokes Blends has a neighbor who drinks water.
----------------------
Einstein said 98% of the world could not solve it. It's not hard, you just need to pay attention and be patient.
thrall January 5th, 2004, 08:23 PM

The *** own's the fish.straigh t and simple,I don't think anybody can't solve it if he wans to.
----------------------
No spoiling!
Rhadon

If Einstein were that clever, he would have mad e theories that worked, not ones that fall a p a r t , a n d m a k e a n i n f i n i t e n u m b e r o f
b l a c k h o l e s a s s o o n a s t h e u n certainty principle is introduced. I agree with Thrall, the *** owns the fish. No question.

Got it. 98% huh...I dont know about that. It's not hard but it's anoying.
I'm a b o u t t o g o b u r n d o w n f i v e h o u s e s , k i l l o n e g u y o f e a c h o f t h o s e n a t i o n a l i t i e s , s a m e g o e s f o r t e h a n i m als, and I'll never
drink/smoke anything that was mentio ned in that again !
Zykaz January 6th, 2004, 12:08 AM

No, its not a trick, and yes, I typed everything right. Like I said, if you want the answer, send m e a n e m ail. After that, if you
even want a full explanation, I'll provide one.
tom haggen January 6th, 2004, 12:53 AM

P a r d o n m y stupidity but does rears m ean that he doesn't own any birds.

No, the oppo site. It m e a n s h e r a i s e s b i r d s .
Azealzel January 6th, 2004, 01:36 PM

If you ever think you have the answer, go to th is link: www.stephenson.ca/Einstein/
It will be faster than waiting for a reply to your e-m ail and you will get the full solution. Though you can access the solution
only if you have the right answer.
Tuatara January 6th, 2004, 04:31 PM

You know I already posted this one som e time ago ...
I got it out in 15 m inutes, my wife took 20 m inutes. I can't believe it really as hard as E m a k e s o u t.
It isn't that hard, especially if you write it all out, so you can visualize it. After staring at it for about 15 m inutes I got it too.
T h e r e a s o n i t s e e m s hard is b ecause it takes m any progressive logical steps to reach your conclusion, but there is only one
possible answer.

tom haggen,
"rears" m e a n s h e r a i s e s t h e m .
I tried this one a while back, in a slightly different form . It had two levels, and the fish was the easier of the two to answer, iirc.
I spent ages doing it, but m y other half sent m e the an swers in about two m inutes, in full, without even writing down any rough
workings! Her IQ is scary high. :)
Anyway, IQ changes over tim e . T h e " a v e r a g e " I Q i s a l w a y s s u p p o s e d t o b e 1 0 0 , b u t t h e m ark gets m oved every 10-20 years,
a s p a o p l e g e t s m a r t e r. So back in Einstein's da y, 50+ years ago, now, it was a MENSA standard puzzle. Now, however, it isn't.
http://hom e.com c a s t . n e t / ~ n e o e u g e n i c s / T R C .htm says it rises by 3 points a decade, which tallies with the 1 0-15 point change
every generation. So, 1.03^5 = 116 IQ points. By a sort of vagu e line of logic and twisted math, if 2% could do it then, about
10% can now...
Anyway, we all have artifacts to play with these days, like search engines and spreadsheets, and so measuring intelligence is
very tricky co mpared to back then, when it was still very tricky.
Finally, Einstein was very good at hard physics, and solved som e great problem s, but he was not an experim ental psycologist,
any more than you would ask your plum b e r t o d o a h e a rt bypass, even though th ey are kind of the same id ea...
Efraim_barkbit January 7th, 2004, 10:19 AM

Yes.. I got it.. took about 15 m inutes, and then 5 m ore for "controll thinking"
Are you supposed to "think" it out ,or are you allowed to use paper and a pen?
Then it would be hell of a lot easier.
Even thought it proba bly isnt true, I like the thought of m e b e i n g i n t h o s e t o p 2 % : D

UTFSE! :rolleyes:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?threadid=218 3

Sorry nbk. W hen I click on that link though, I g et an "Invalid thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the
webm aster." vBulletin m e s s a g e.
keith: W hen you post in the W ater Cooler, then your post count doesn't go up. If you're talking about outside of the Water
Cooler, and you know that posts don't count in here, then disregard that.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Two possible lead Azide
replacements?
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Unknown January 6th, 2004, 02:58 AM

The U.S. Arm y is looking to re place Lead Azide with ENTA or DAAT-NOx due to the effect that Lead Azide ha s on the
evironm ent. Info on this can be found at the following link.
It would be interesting for us to do our own research (th eoretical of course) to see what conclusion we can com e to regarding a
suitable replacement.
www.serdp.org/research/PP/PP -1364.pdf (http://www.serdp.org/research/PP/PP-13 64.pdf)

T h a t s e e m two rather costly replaceme nts to me, especially for the am ateur chem ist.
mongo blongo January 6th, 2004, 06:04 PM

They don't really seem to be worth the trouble either, unless your a hippy. Although they are interesting I don't thin k we have
any hippies here (do we?:p ) and since I don't give a fu ck about the environm ent......

H a s a n y o n e h e a r d a n ything about these two primaries?
KDNBF (Potassium Dinitrobenzotrifurox an)
DXN-1 (Mercuric 5-Nitrotetrazole)

I've had a fe w basic attem pts at making 5-nitrotetrazole (and then salts thereof), but all attem p t s t o o x i d i s e m y 5 -
a m inotetrazole have so far resulted in decomposition :(.
DAAT-NOx interests m e, since I have a large supply of 5-aminotetrazole, which would probably make a good precursor...
anyone know of a patent # of any relevance? I'll have a search m yself tomorrow, it's late now...

I'm not a hippy, but I do care about the environm ent. I think ecoterrorist would be a better description of m e .

I found synthesis for KDNBF and DXN-1 in Hardt's Pyrotechnics, with the inform ation that they were suited for stab, hot wire a n d
flash sensitive dets. I could post a photo of the diagram s on the "other explosives" sectio n if anyone was interested-
kingspaz January 7th, 2004, 07:08 AM

Diagram s are ALW A Y S g o o d : )

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > HELP-hopelessly stuck with AP
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View Full Version : HELP-hopelessly stuck with AP

Hi
:confused:
I know you are probaly going to laugh, but I don`t feel, like laughing now.
The BIG problem is that I cannot make the AP. It seems like a piece of cake: just mix 3 engridients, that are not hard to get too.
Well i did.......and nothing happened. here is whwt I did:
I bought 3 bottles of 3% H2O2 (100 grams each) in a drugstore.
I gought a bottle of acetone in a construction materil store.
i got some 200ml of 95% H2SO4
i mixed H2O2 (all 3 bottles=300g) with 50 ml of acetone (I noticed that the temp. rased from 15 to some 22 degrees C ; or maby it was just because the acetone was at
room temp. ad h2o2 was aprox. 15 degrees C, however I think there was a reaction going on)
ten I paced the jam jar (it was the container) into a bucket of salt+ice+water. The temp. still was some 10 degrees for a while. When it droped till 5 deg. I added the first drop
of H2SO$ (it needed only 3ml of 75% acid) I didn`t notice ANY temp. shange.After stiring for a minute i added the last two remaining drops of acid-still there was NO shange in
the temp. I read that it should turn milki-nothing like that happened even after 3 hours, so I added some more acid (3 drops)(the temp was now below 0)
The next morning (after some 10 hours) the mixture got little bit more "messy", but still far ftom milky.the temp was still sub 0 After another 10hours there was a slight
change in color but still far from milky.( i supose some cristals had tu apear by now)
I dont know what I have done wrong-maby You people also had any difficulties and know the colution-please let me know
H2O2 source was drugstore: relyable
H2SO4 source was school chem class; I also tested If it really was concentr. by pouring a few drops on a cloth-it made holes quite fast-so no doubt:it is concentrated
Acetone-hardware store (it sais 'technical acetone" on the bottle) also relyable (I haven`t heard of different acetones)
maby it was the temp.(It was below 0 most of the time) On the other hand The AP beginers manual sais it should be as low as possible.
I am going to make thet AP even if it is the last thing I do:D
nuclearattack January 7th, 2004, 05:46 PM

i am not laughing! i know what you feel because the first time i tried making AP i have encountered some problems but after all now i'm able to make it! don't get desperate!
you will do a lot of AP and you will see it is not as difficult as you think!
well lets talk about the procedure:
why a so high concentrated h2so4? it's better to use a 38% h2so4 or hcl because higher conc will rise temperature easily. and remember that 38% is easy to obtain because
you can take it from car suppliers as battery refill. i use this acid for my AP production.
i know that the h2o2 conc isn't important (remember to respect the ratios) but i noticed that with higher concentration i have better yelds. I use from 6 to 12% h2o2 that i can
find on hair/make up shops. Make a research on the forum about concentrating h2o2 if you are interested on higher conc.
another thing: i noticed that AP crystals can take 2 days to form in the batch so be patient! with this chemicals i can produce 40g of AP from 1 liter of 12% h2o2. my crystals
are very small, the AP formed is like a powder and it works fine when detonated!
i saw that you are from europe...what country? i'm from italy and if you are italian we can work toghether on explosives. feel free to email me:
gammarayburst@tiscali.it
good work to you and goog luck with the AP!

I have no doubt it is the concentration of the H2O2, honestly it is not worth using 3%!

Its 300ml of hydrogen peroxide, not 300grams. Also Its not even worth trying with that low of concentration of H2O2. Your better off using 30%. Your acid should be around
30-35% concentration. If your having that much trouble making AP I would suggest staying away from it. I had sucess my first couple of trys. By the time I used 30% H202, I
detonated the AP on my first try with the yield I got using 30% H202. That stuff denfinetly seems unpredictable

I detonated the AP on my first try with the yield I got using 30% H202
Woa you have to be a genius to detonate AP! Woa hardcore man!

LOL!!! Yea he's badass huh!
I always used 3% with no problem but lately I cant get any AP. I follow the exact same precedure but for some reason, it doesnt work. My first 6 attempts at making it it went
flawlessly, now that I am a more experianced chemist and can make almost any explosive known, I cant make fucking AP. I dont want to spend $40 for H2O2 either.(I dont
like explosives anyway)

If its not dried correctly it will deflagrate. Also, at least I know the difference between a milliliter and a fucking gram. Making ap with 3% sucks my dick. I let that shit sit for like
a week and didn't get a fucking gram. Quit posting false information. You use to get good yields with 3% pull your fucking head out of your ass.

I don't mind him saying that, it's things like this that make me not want to know him/know him only by the term Kewl or in the BFL:
"now that I am a more experianced chemist and can make almost any explosive known, I cant make fucking AP."
Hmm something bothers me about this statement. You can quote 'make almost any explosive known' and yet you can't make Ap, a feat that somehow almost every lamer
who grabs a synth can do and blow themselves up with. And secondly if you are so good at explosives manufacture, why are you still making AP? in fact why are you still
attempting AP with only 3% H2O2, surely in your vast explosives lab you have something a little more potant??
Mr Cool January 8th, 2004, 07:38 AM

I am a more experianced chemist and can make almost any explosive known
What he means is that he can make almost any explosive that he knows about. Since he can't make AP, he probably means that he can make HMTD.

Ah, now I believe you! I thought you were claiming to have made things like ONC, TEX etc when you said you could make "almost any explosive known." It was a bit
misleading...

One thing kewls don't understand is that rushing is not the way to go. If you dont have the right chemicals then why the hell are you trying to attempt something that will fail?
Don't say you have "bad" chemicals from the hardware store because that is bullshit. Your expirment failed because you didn't have full knowledge of what your making. Even
if these chemicals where "cheap" why would that cause a failed expirement? Maybe because your a dumbass purchased the wrong chemicals, which afterwards you used in the
expirement!

Look it is quite obvious that he is a plain idiot, not one second do I beleive:
"I said that because I HAVE made almost any explosive that is discussed in these forums."
Even though he put forward such a convincing argument as this:

"Beleive me with what I say, I dont lie."
If you have done any of this then by all means give us evidance, but as I am sure that you haven't you may as well stop deluding yourself about the matter as you sure as
hell arn't fooling us. Mabey in a few years you will realise how stupid you sound.

Tom,Tom,Tom, I'd thought we'd meet again.Perhaps you should check out the "AP in Iraq" thread. Field improvised AP with the worst possible chemicals and conditions. If I
were you I'd take a break from posting and just lurk for a while. But I'm sure you wont take my advice.

This should be helpful to the newbies:
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/projectsdevicesdir/boilingh2o2test.html

thanks to you all (to those who tried to help and to those who just tried to show-of (that goes for you keith)
Oh ,tom haggen, i am not that stupid in chem.-it said 100 GRAMS not ml (however it is almost the same: densities are close)
Nuclearattack,-Thanks man! Unfortunately I don`t live in Italy, I live in Latvia (if you have ever heard of it-it`s in the north) I`ll e-mail you about the results of my further
experiments
GIANT thanks to ,EP,-I learned my lesson. I`ll try the both methods-heating and freezing ( Of course I could buy more conc. h2o2 in chem. shop (like I did with KCl03 -I still
have some 0,5kg :) ) but I`ll go the hard way: making something out of practically nothing (or used every day-for other purposes)-that`s what counts.
I`ll post my results-wish me luck
Thanks

Tom Haggen needs to know when to shut up, lest he get a foot up his arse.
If you're using 3% H2O2 and are surprised to find no AP after 3 hours, then you didn't do enough research before you started. It's widely written that when using low conc.
H2O2, you will need to wait 2-3 days before the bulk of AP forms.

I said that when i used 3% i let it sit for a week. mr. boom bastic you said that you got 3 bottles of 3% h2o2 @ 100grams each giving you 300grams of h202. But the
synthesis calls for 300ml of 3% h202, this is the last thing i'm sayin on this sub anthony

1. Please don't use the word "recipe" when talking about a synth, this isn't the ACB.
2. 100mL and 100g are close enough not to matter in this case (ie when dealing with 3% H2O2). It would not have affected reaction at all.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Oxygen
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View Full Version : Oxygen
fire vs. water January 6th, 2004, 05:15 PM

I have a rather odd question, which I can't find an answer to.
How come oxygen is the/an oxidisier (it sounds funny, because the word "oxidiser" comes from the word "oxygen")?
I mean, right there's the fuel and there's the oxidiser?

Why is the oxygen preticulary been naturally chosen to be the oxidiser?
What special quality\property does it have, that Hydrogen, or Nitrogen (for example) don't have?
I hope I made myself clear.

An oxidizer oxidizes another material by reducing itself.
That basically means the oxidation state of the oxidizer goes down and that of the reducer goes up.
Now, because oxygen is the 2nd most electronegative element, it'll be the most stable in a negative oxidation state, which implies it should be reduced to -2 starting from 0.
To do that it has to gain electrons from the reducer.
THErAPIST January 6th, 2004, 08:12 PM

It may be that I'm pretty tired... But are you trying to ask why things require the presence of oxygen to burn, and why things don't need hydrogen or nitrogen or something
similar instead of oxygen?
Ammonal January 6th, 2004, 08:33 PM

Do I think that youre question might have been answered if you had done year 7 science? just kidding ;) If I remember a bit of high school chemistry there was a memory
jogging saying "oxidation is a loss of electrons and reduction is a gain" your oxygen is classed as an oxy'DISER' because it removes or allows for the removal of electrons from
other elements or compounds which means that it is gaining electrons and being reduced.
Flame away for anyone who disagrees with what my chem teacher told me!

Well, oxygen is just a powerful oxidizing agent. It removes electrons from other elements and forms compounds (oxides) with them. As previously mentioned, an oxidizing
agent is just something that will accept electrons. Other highly electronegative elements like fluorine can act in the same way: steel wool could be said to "burn" (become
oxidized) in fluorine, but burning is a term usually restricted to reactions with oxygen.
This is just speculation, but I think oxygen is the universal oxidizer because it forms relatively unstable groups with a high percentage of O atoms in them, like ClO4- and NO3-.
These give off a lot of energy when burned with a fuel.
fire vs. water January 7th, 2004, 10:48 AM

Thanks for the help, but I don't really think anyone understood what I'm asking (my fault, not yours... ;) )
vulture I don't completly understood what you said, (this is my first year learning chemistry by the way).
Are you saying the oxygen has a -2 charge after it oxidizes something?
But doesn't sulfur also have a -2 charge in its ionic form?
"it'll be the most stable in a negative oxidation state" - although it's the most stable, oxygen is the only "oxydizer", how come there aren't any other materials that can be
used as oxydizers?
---------------------------------------------
I'm sorry, I can't really explain myself well,

The question I'm asking is similar to "why do humans perticulary need oxygen in order to, and not hydrogen, for example?"
For that question I can find an answer, but for my question above, I cannot.
T_Pyro January 8th, 2004, 12:17 AM

Oxidation state of an atom in a compound is the apparent charge it appears to have in the compound, whether ionic or covalent. This definition might not be the most accurate,
but it's the simplest one I could come up with. There are additional rules for assigning oxidation states in compounds, you should read up on them, too.
Like Vulture stated, oxygen is the second most electronegative element, so it'll be the most stable in the lowest oxidation state possible. (-2) Hypothetically, Fluorine could be
used as an oxidiser, but there are other advantages of using oxygen- it's more abundant, and is less corrosive in its free state. Actually, OF2 is a very good oxidiser, and has
been used as rocket fuel before.
Yes, sulfur has a -2 charge in metallic sulfides. However, the change in enthalpy of a reaction like Fe+S -> FeS is not too great to be of any use. This reaction requires quite
some amount of energy to start out with (activation energy), but once the reaction proceeds, the heat generated makes the reaction mixture glow red-hot.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Visco fuse
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View Full Version : Visco fuse
Speakle January 7th, 2004, 11:16 PM

I did not want to start this in the pyro section where I am s u r e i t s h o u l d b e b e c a u s e I d o n t w a n t t o b e b a n n e d . I a m curios
where visco fuse is made. I know basically how it is m a d e b u t a m l o o k i n g f o r t h e c o m pany that actually makes it. I have
searched in the forum and all over the net and cant find anything.
THErAPIST January 9th, 2004, 01:37 AM

Y a k n o w . . . n o o n e p o s e d a n y t h i n g i n t h is thread because most all of them c o u l d n t c a r e l e s s a b o u t w h e r e t h e f u s e i s m a d e a n d
by whom, all most pe ople care about is the fact that they can get the fuse and it works... BUT since I'm in a good m o o d , a n d
because I've run acro ss something that might interest you earlier while i was thumbing through one of m y b o o k s . . .
Am erican Visco Fuse Com p a n y

11984 Telegraph R oad
Carleton, MI 48117
visco safety fuse m anufacturer and distributer
That work for you?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > My new computer!
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View Full Version : My new computer!

After 3 long years of planning to purchase a new computer I finally have done it. This weekend I ordered the components of the system that I plan to build myself. If
all goes well I could be using my new screamer by next weekend, yea! I have been merticiously tracking component prices for most of the past year looking for the
best deal and configuring the system I want, but at a very competitive price. Heres what I have:
I will be using the venerable ASUS A7N8X-X motherboard for starters. I did not opt for the deluxe because I dont need raid or LAN with this system, and I am not too
keen on duel channel RAM quite yet. This board actually came down quite a bit with the release of the X version this past spring. I got the retail version to get all the
cables, documentation, warranty, and software.
I opted for the AMD XP 2800+ processor. This chip offers the best value for the money, a little more expensive than the 2700+ by about $30 but, but going to the 3000+
means an extra $60. AMD processors are just as good if not better than their Intel counterparts at this mid level range, they are certainly cheaper. I got the retail version to get
the fan, heatsink, and 3 year warrenty.
For RAM I wanted something good so I went with a 512 MB stick of Corsair PC3200 XMS ram. That is perhaps one of the best sticks of RAM you can get without going
for low latency or their funky RAM with the LEDs all over them. The XMS series is their best quality xtreme performance ram. Since I don t have a duel channel
motherboard I can wait until RAM prices drop before buying another 512 MB stick. My mobo can hold up to 3 sticks. The PC3200 is the fastest the Asus board supports.
For graphics I wanted something that would last into the foreseeable future, give some modicum of performance, and yet be cheap. I opted for the Radeon 9600XT with
256MB of ram over the 128. The XT is the newest flavor of cards with directx 9 support and all that good stuff, plus the 256 MB version should offer better performance over
the 128 MB. A 9700 card would have been nice, but there is a huge price premium I am not willing to pay. I got the retail version because I want the Unreal 3 game voucher
that comes with it, and because there are not yet any OEM versions of this particular model..
My hard drive is a Western Digital 7200 rpm 120 GB drive with 8MB cache. It does not get much better than this especially for the price I got this. I have actually had this drive
and been using it for the past couple of months now.
I bought an Optowrite combo CD-RW and DVD ROM drive that has a 48x24x48 CD speed and is a 16x DVD drive. It is actually backordered, so I may be using one of
the old CD drives I have laying around until it gets here. It matches my case even. I could have gotten two drives, but the prices of combo drives have fallen so much
this past year that it is now cheaper to get the combo. I could have gotten a faster CD-RW, but I never burn faster than 40x because very little media supports that, at
least mine doesnt. It will be years before I use up my current stash of CD-Rs.
For the modem I sprung for a US-Robotics v92 56k bad boy. I actually got a great deal on a new one off of Ebay for $16. This baby goes for $60 in the stores. The Ebay one is
not used, it is brand new still in the shrinkwrap. I am actually toying with buying broadband (cable most likely).
For my case I went with the Raidmax Scorpio 860 black case with a 420W power supply. This is a very stylish case with a window and all, not very expensive at all
really. It beats the pants off a beige box any day thats for sure. I also got a discount on combo wireless Raidmax keyboard and mouse that matches the case.
For a sound card I want to get a Creative Audigy2 ZS card, but I have not narrowed my choice of speakers as of yet, so I will wait on this one since I can always add it later.
The motherboard supports 5.1 sound as it is. The Audigy2 card has the 7.1 surround capability that I want since I will be using my PC as a home theatre system as well. I want
some good 7.1 speakers, but they are not in the budget as of yet.
I should mention the floppy, not much to say about it except that it matches the case being black. Other incidentals include some Artic Silver V thermal paste for my CPU, some
colored round cables for the hard drive and floppy, and a hard drive cooler, which came with the case as a free gift from the vender.
Now I bet you all want to know how much all this cost me eh? Well to be quite honest it has thus far run me a little over $730 and change. Not a bad price if I do say
so, and the price includes all shipping and handling charges. A similarly configured system from Best Buy, or Dell, gateway, HP, etc. would run over $1200 and it would
still have crappier components than mine. I would have to pay tax too. I also bought a refurb Viewsonic 21 monitor for $140 (shipped).
Now we shall see if I am up to the task of building my own system from scratch. I anticipate problems; there are always problems in my experience. Lets just hope its
nothing I cant handle. Even if I do get stuck my local computer repair shop can bail me out and I will still save tons of money vs. a pre built.

I too have a 120gig, 7200rpm, western digital hard drive. It is an external though. Western Digital makes a good product.
A-BOMB January 8th, 2004, 10:16 PM

Mega, did you go tothe computer show out at the expomartb in december i went there and got a intel D865PERL mobo and a 3.2Ghz P4 for $360 the I got 2 sticks of 512Mb
PC3500 PNY verto memory, and a 160Gb with 8Mb buffer for $197 at best buy, then I used a ATI AIW 9000 Pro. And I usedmy old cd-rw/dvd/floppy drives. Then I'm reading
the paperwork that came with the hard-drive and I find I cant use more that 130 gb of my hard drive with windows 98 any body know where i could get a copy of xp?

mmmm Radeon 9600XT w/ 256MB RAM, I'm still stuck with a crappy old Voodoo 3 w/16MB!
And does anyone 'get' this whole case modding craze? Seriously who spends 200 making their case look like a pimp mobile. Beige does the job for me, but once you go black
you might never go back!
Tuatara January 8th, 2004, 11:55 PM

Its just the computer geeks version of 'boy racer' - you know the sort, blue mags, 3" exhaust, intercooler strapped to the front, chrome gear knob etc, on a Honda Civic :D
angelo January 9th, 2004, 02:38 AM

There is chance that this might start abit of an argument, but seriously, why do people have such a problem with these 'boy racers'? Or these case modders?
I think the urge to modify things is no reason to get angry.

I know there are people out there that do modify their car so as to attract attention either of their friends or the opposite sex. These are the idiots.
But modifying something to be more useful, or faster, or stronger, or even to look better, whats the problem with that? I suffer from this. I have modified everything. My car
stereo for one, my computer, my furniture, my house, even my clothes.
Whats the problem with that?

the 128mb Radeon 9600XT would have been better as the 128mb versions normally have 2.5ns-2.8ns while the 256mb versions have 4ns RAM.
The Asus A7N8-X does has dual channel RAM. Dual channel does improve performance of the overal system quite alot. I have a 120gb WD HDD myself and they are quite
good.
The Audigy 2 ZS is a very expensive soundcard, but has excellent sound quality. If you are after a decent set of 5.1 speakers I suggest the Logitech Z-680s. These are 500w
THX certified speakers and produce high quality sound.
Dave Angel January 9th, 2004, 11:57 AM

Hey don't get me wrong I'm not angry, just a bit confused.
I think modification is great as long as it serves a purpose such as making the item faster, stronger etc even more aesthetically pleasing to some extent. However, I would
rather spend my cash on a tasty video card than on a transparent acrylic case, or a glowing fan for example.

Case modding was cool when you couldn't buy it ready-made over the counter for little more than regular-case money - IMHO :)

I myself am in the process of building a computer. What I plan to have in it and some of which I already have(mobo, case, CD drive, HDD, ): Antec Sonata 380W case, Asus
P4C800-e Deluxe, 512mb PC3200 Kingston DDRRAM , P4 3.0 GHz CPU, western digital SE Caviar 80GB HDD, 3pc speaker system, 18W sub 6W satellites, 19" moniter, win 98
2nd ed, and most likely an ATI 9800 of some flavor, I haven't decided how important the extra features are versus the $$ spent. all around its gonna cost me ~1200 excluding
shipping.
Its gonna be used for online gaming(after i get a job and get broadband) and video editing
http://extremetech.pricegrabber.com/index.php/mode=et_check_prices/ut=4324080ac923a593 has a good product-for-cheap finder
T_Pyro January 9th, 2004, 11:43 PM

Some "extras" that I'd add if I were going for a new comp.:
Some arctic silver compound (I hear they released the Arctic Silver 5 some time back) to re-attach the heatsink/fan combo on the GPU and CPU.
I'd also go for a higher rpm cooling fan for both the GPU and CPU. I find the cooling fans on ASUS's 3d cards not quite up to speed- my GeForce kept overheating till I replaced
the fan.
Oh, and a USB hub is useful, for I'm ever falling short of USB ports...
megalomania January 10th, 2004, 04:30 AM

I actually bought some artic Silver V a little while ago, it recently arrived. My monitor is here and it looks great, it is very bright and huge. It did not come with a VGA cable, so I
went out to the local computer surplus store and bought one. When I later priced some on pricewatch I learned I payed too much. What I want now is a 5 way BNC connector,
I never knew what that was but I noticed some funky attachments on the back of my monitor and saw the same things at the computer store. He didn't have any, but there
are plenty abound on the web for under $20.
My DVD player actually arrived first, and that was supposed to be backordered. My graphics card and mobo also arrived. Now I await the cpu, ram, floppy, and the case.

congratulations for the new pc!
i hope you will use it for serious graphic applications: DooM 3, Half Life 2, Stalker, i mean!
i'm planning a new PC for november (budget is the matter!), Atlon 64 FX? Yeah i love AMD processors, surely they have the best power/price ratio.
good playng with it!

So far so good it seems... I survived the inagural boot up and subsequent entry into BIOS. Yeah no damage! I was very concerned with the amount of pressure I had to apply
to the ZIF socket lever, and the CPU heatsink. I barely got that heatsink on there, I was woried it would crack the core, jeez why can't they design them better?
Now I just have to finish backing up my drive on this computer because I am using it in the new one. Everything else is plugged in and ready to go. Once I get the drive
installed I'll configure the BIOS the rest of the way and install the OS, I am going with XP on the new system.
One question for those who may know, how in the hell do you know if the little plugs that control the front panel lights, onboard speaker, hard drive LED, power switch, and
reset button are plugged in right? None of the wires say they are positive or negative or the ground. And my front panel USB plugs have an extra plug that goes nowhere I can
figure out. It's a 1 pin plug and it is labeled ground. The other plug is 4 pins, including a ground, and the motherboard only has room for the 4 pin plug. The other wire just
dangles there.
Timpsick January 14th, 2004, 09:25 PM

For a LED, the colored wire is the positive one and the black/white is the negative. The motherboard should have a tiny "+" near the positive pins.
It doesn't matter which way the power and reset switches are plugged in, they are just switches. You could even turn your computer on/off or press reset by just shorting the
corresponding pins on the motherboard with a screwdriver...

The 1 pin connector that you mentioned is most probably for "chassis ground", used to earth the metal frame of a connector or a peripheral. This "ground" is different from
"signal ground", which is provided along with the 4-pin connector. You could connect the chassis ground pin directly to (an unpowdered place on) the cabinet, provided the
cabinet itself is earthed via the power supply.
On the motherboard, there should be a small "+" symbol beside the positive pin connector. Just align up the red wire to this pin. Since you've already been able to boot up into
BIOS, I guess you already know by now whether you'd connected them correctly.
Third_Rail January 15th, 2004, 01:05 PM

Good choice RAM for that motherboard, it can be picky.... sometimes no brand other than Corsair works! I've put together ~15 computers with A7N8X boards, both deluxe and
non, and almost every single time the computer had a pagefault error with any other memory.... oh well, Corsair is good stuff anyway, even if you are practically forced into
buying it.
ALENGOSVIG1 January 15th, 2004, 03:52 PM

I've set up two comps with A7N8X's and i've never had a problem with memory. Never used Corsair in either of the comps and I have a couple friends who use the A7N8X and
neither of them use Corsair.
Strange...

Quite strange, what production date are the boards? I only used earlier boards, as this was about 6 months ago that I put the computers together. Maybe ASUS fixed the
hardware compatibility bug?

The older revision 1 borads had various problems with the bios etc., but they adressed the problems and released the revision 2 A7N8X. This was a year ago or so though. So
maybe the boards you used were revision 1. It says whether its a revision 1 or 2 in between the 1'st and 2'nd pci slot.

ASUS has only certified a handful of ram sticks to run with the A7N8X motherboard, here is a link to the list: http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7n8x/A7N8Xqvl.htm
mr.pyro January 16th, 2004, 01:06 AM

Just a comment on the 9600 XT. All the XT's are , are more memory and overclocked drivers, but dam they are good! Still a little outta my range for the 9800 XT at $499.

Mega, sounds like your new gear is extremely hot ! I'm still running a P3 933 MHz
machine that has served me well. I think your choice of Viewsonic for the monitor
is excellent. I bought their 19" version years ago and it still runs and looks better
than the Sonys. Please let us know how well the new hard drive performs.
My slave hard drive is a 120 GB Maxtor @7200 RPM with 8 MB cache and has done
a great job. The master hard drive is also a Maxtor although it's only 60 GB and
considerably slower than the 120. I'll attribute that to the difference in the years
these drives were produced. Also cable modems are great ! I love the increased
download speed despite the higher costs. I'll never go back to a dialup !
Good luck with your new gear and have lots of fun !

Surprisingly, I had problems with revision 2 boards as well as revision 1; the same problems, as well, which in reality helped because I already knew the fix.
NightStalker January 17th, 2004, 04:51 AM

Mega, since you like PC games so much, and have a new computer, you might want to get a new game to play on it.
This one is called "Frontal Assault" (http://fa.xmunkki.org). ;)
When you see the screenshots, you'll know why. :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > O ptimizing Black P owder for
c a n n o n s , m o rtars, or pyrotechnics
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View Full Version : Optimizing Black Powder for cannons, mortars, or pyrotechnics

I have been trying to think of a way to m a k e m y pyrodex slightly more p owerfull. Smokeless powder doesn t work well in
cannons and BP or Pyrodex isnt quite powerfull enough for wht I want.
W h a t a b o u t a d d i n g s o m ething to Pyrodex or BP to incre ase its b urn rate or power. AL m ight work g iven the high ratio of
o x i d izer to fuel that BP has.
Any ideas?

If you are replacing C with Al you are just using flash powder, wh ich would give you a m uch higher burn rate if that is what yo u
want.

No not replacing. Just adding som e as I've noticed that many co mps with Al seem to be fast burning. Flash powder is way too
f a s h a n d d o e s n o t c r e a t e e n o u g h g a s s . I ' m l o o k i n g o r s o m e t h i n g s i m ple, an additive that does no t need to be ball milled. My
idea of the Al isn't go o d . I ' m k i n d a i n n e e d o f a n i d e a f r o m one of you g uys cause I dont know m u c h a b o u t m a k i n g L E ' s l i k e
this.
W ith the m a x i m u m deflag rate of black powder being som e w h e r e a r o u n d 1 , 2 0 0 f e e t p e r s e c o n d , a n d s m o k e l e s s b e i n g
s o m ewhere around 5,000 feet per second(under pressure) I need som ething in the middle.
gliper January 9th, 2004, 11:51 PM

Try m ixing sm okless and black powder, if 5000 fps is from d o u b l e b a s e d u s e s i n g l e b a s e . O t h e r i d e a s m etal + sulfer, I know
(X)C l03 + C and (X)C l04 + C or C and S are faster than black powder, slower than sm o k l e s s a n d g i v e g r a t e r gas generation as
with AN+ KNO 3 + C.
Do not m ix S with (X)C lo3 if you do m ake shure its basic (not asidic). S slows down the black powder reaction but gives greater
gas output.
Seriosly thow m illateries used black po wder for like a thowsan years and now use double or triple b a s e I a m sure one of thows
is fine for you.

I'm 16yo so m y $140 cannon barrel is alil too expensive for m e to blow up. Sm okeless powder(DB) contains NC and NG so I'm
scared of it.
I think I'll try a mix o f AANO.7 sm okless and pyrodex. A ratio of 4:1 pyrodex:BDSP.
Any other ideas?
thx gliper
BTW m y barrel is 2.5" O D x 1.5" ID x 48" long. Made from DOM high carbon steel. I think it holds som ewhere around
85,000psi :)
I could probably use sm okeless but.....
Blackhawk January 10th , 2004, 01:34 AM

I don't think there should be a problem with using DBSP, that is what reg ular weaponry uses and they have quite thin walled
barrels, of course you are using a m uch heavier projectile with m ore powder, my advice is work you r way up. Start with a very
s m a ll am ount of powder and build it up untill your projectile is firing at th e speed/range that you want it to and keep it there ,
of course watching for any stress or dam age to the barrel. Really if your projectile is tight fitting BP is fine, scince ho wever yo u
want such high speed s have a look here http://www.powerlabs.org/cannons.htm
They shot a golfball out of a steel tube cannon with 1/2" thick walls with 30g whistle powder and 200g NC, of course you would
probably not use so much in yours ;)

Yes I have seen that site and that cannon. My cannon is the same as that one but with a longer barrel. I doubt he used 200g
of Nc as it would take up about 20 inches of barrel space!!! Ill have pics of m y cannon in the cannons thread in im p r o v i s e d
weapons forum in about a week so keep an eye on it. I'm not too worried about getting higher tha n 1000fps (thats what I'm
getting now) but I'd like to know how to if I one day decide to load some hotter loads.

Keith-
P l e a se describe exactly what your tube is m ade of and how the breach is sealed. I will then tell you how stu pid you are for
m a k i n g a p i p e b o m b , o r s u g g e s t s o m ething else in the unlikely event that you understand ordinance engineering well enough
to be told an y t h i n g e l s e b e s i d e s S T O P T H A T !
Blackhawk-
There's a lot of different steels out there. Thickness has nearly fuck-all to do with suitability to take high pressure in very fast
pulses, particularly if you want to do it repeatedly.
All you other cannoneers-

The right steel for a cannon that fires projectiles ain't likely to be found in handy shapes at your ju n k y a r d u n l e s s t h e y h a v e a
contract for de-m illing artillery. Ever seen some one with a big piece of steel stuck in them ? It's not pretty. The sm ell of hot
stee l burning the flesh it's em bedded in is one you won't soon forget either.

I f y o u ' r e l o o k i n g f o r s o m e t h i n g m ore powerful than blackpowder but with high gas output go for wh istle m ix . I m ust warn you
though that m y K C l O 3 / C 6 H 5 C O ONa whistle mix always explodes, no m atter if it h a s b e e n p r e s s e d o r n o t .
Bert January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 1 : 4 7 P M

m y K C l O 3 / C 6 H 5 C O ONa whistle mix always explodes, no m atter if it has been pressed or not
Try adding an additional 4% of petrole um jelly dissolved in warm lacquer thinner to your whistle m ix. Granu late it through a
coarse screen, allow it to dry and then press up a whistle out of the dried granules. BTW , whistle m ix made with chlorate is a
cap sensitive HE-

Thanks for the info bert, cap sensitive HE? :eek:
W hat strikes me is th at it always explodes with a very sharp report, contrary to the deep thum p of flashpowder. There's noth ing
to recover from the casings either.
Could it possibly m a k e D D T ?

It's possible- W ithout an accurate way to measure for vod, hard to say for sure. Y ou probably allready know, but NEVER ram
whistle m ixes with a hamm er and drift- Allways press them . They can tak e very high pressures when applied slowly. Take a
crum b of whistle mix and tap it with a ham m e r o n a n a n v i l s o m etime. W ear your ear plugs.
shooter3 January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 3 2 P M

Your crazy if you try mixing ANYTHING with BP. Your cannon will blow up and probabley kill you or a by-stander.
Stick with sm okeless or BP. One thing you can do is expirim ent with smaller grains of either.

I h a v e p e r s o n a l y m i x e d s m o k eless and black powders in alum a n u m foil raping. It burnt like black powder on its own but
incinerated som e of the foil.
I h o p e y o u d ident m e a n b l a c k + s m o k eless powder burns faster than sm o k e l e s s a l o n e .
Spoz April 11th, 2004, 08:07 AM

I don't think there should be a problem with using DBSP, that is what reg ular weaponry uses and they have quite thin walled
barrels, of course you are using a m uch heavier projectile with m ore powder, my advice is work you r way up. Start with a very
s m a ll am ount of powder and build it up untill your projectile is firing at th e speed/range that you want it to and keep it there ,
of course watching for any stress or dam age to the barrel. Really if your projectile is tight fitting BP is fine, scince ho wever yo u
want such high speed s have a look here http://www.powerlabs.org/cannons.htm
They shot a golfball out of a steel tube cannon with 1/2" thick walls with 30g whistle powder and 200g NC, of course you would
probably not use so much in yours ;)
The powerlabs cannon that you suggested, while very im pressive it is very dangerous, it was created by someone who now has
only 7 3/4 fingers left on his hands. W onder why he hasnt done anything in his chem istry section lately? ;)
By the way, this is m y first post, nice board you got here.
---------------------
Don't quote whole posts!
Rhadon

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nitric acid
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View Full Version : Nitric acid
warmage January 10th , 2004, 04:38 AM

Querry?
Has anyone tried to use the contents of a cars catalytic converter as a high tem p catalyst for
t h e o x i d a t i o n o f a m m o n i a m e thod of m a k i n g N O 2 ?
kingspaz January 11th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 4 5 P M

i believe m e g a m a y h a v e a t t e mpted it.
hodio January 19th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 3 : 5 9 P M

for me is better get the nitric from C a(NO 3)2 + H2SO4=2* HNO 3 + CaSO 4 and distil to get acid about 60%(I think it's good for
s o m e nitrations).W hat you are traing to do is a n Ostwald process which is m uch com plicated (the p ressure in the reaction is to
high and the reaction balance is very nasty).I dont say it's impossible to do...but i believe you get a low concentration and a
lot of problem s.
ALENGOSVIG1 January 19th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 2 7 P M

60% nitric acid from Ca(NO3)2 and H2SO 4 ? Y o u ' v e g o t t o b e d o i n g s o m ething wrong to achive such low puritry acid. Heat your
Ca(NO3)2 at low tem p in an over for a few hours. I believe I read that hydrated C a(NO 3)2 (which is what your most likely
using) contains up to 30% crystalline water. Also don't forget to heat your H2SO4 on a hotplate 'till it starts really fum ing. That
should get you 95%+ HNO 3.

That's right if you can get pure Ca(NO3)2*4H2O and concentrate H2SO4 (no prob lem !?)
I u s e d 4 0 % H 2 S O 4( for car batteries) and some semi-p ure Ca n itrate , d istilling off the 67% azeotropic HNO3/H2O that i used
to m a k e s o m e Hg fulm inate.If you want the "red dragon" (over 90%) nitric, than you need ~98% H2SO4.Anyway m ostly you
can get fertilizer mix C a nitrate/NH4NO 3.W hen i have the pure calcium nitrate i dry it at tem p e r a t u r e s b e t w e e n 1 5 0 a n d 4 0 0 C
t o a v o i d d e c o m position (NO 2 fumes...very nasty).
--------------------------------------------------
if yo u want pure Ca(NO3)2 from NH4NO3 than:
C a O + H2O + 2NH4NO3 > Ca(NO3)2 + NH3 + 2 H 2 O

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Car Bomb detonated in Sydney
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View Full Version : Car Bomb detonated in Sydney

Have a look at this
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/National/story_34020.asp
I live around 45mins drive (although a very in-direct route) from there and I heard a thump and felt my bed move slightly this
morning, didn't know what it was at the time but this makes sense now. Any speculation as to what was used? I am thinking
ANFO burried around 1m down as the car on top was still in pieces as large as the engine block which was only 35m away
(most likely projected almost straight up) although there were parts found up to 500m away. Funny thing is that it was deted
at the same place that I launch rockets at a club once a month, so they are bound to find a lot of weird crap in the soil :D

Sounds like a pyro at work! :)
"Local residents who called police thought the explosion sounded like a meteor crashing to the ground."
WTF? Because everyone recognises the sound of a meteor strike, having witnessed several, oh wait, just saw one on
TV:rolleyes:
krimmie January 10th, 2004, 08:04 AM

"WTF? Because everyone recognises the sound of a meteor strike, having witnessed several, oh wait, just saw one on TV"
I find my meteor strikes to be a lot louder when Sb2S3 is added!

Yeah I was thinking that ;) from what I heard (and I was ~50Km away mind you) it was like someone throwing a brick into a
skip from a few m up about 100m away (ie a very low thump). I wonder if I got more of a vibration feeling from the ground
though, if you detonate enough HE to make a crater like that underground you are bound to get some force traveling through
the ground for a long way, but I am still supprised that I heard and felt it. Would've liked to have been ~2Km away with a
good view, sounds like it would've been one hell of a show :D

It looks like someone was just mucking with some good ol' ANFO to me. I just saw the crater on TV then with pigs standing
around it, there is no way it is 5m wide! Maybe 5m from where the grass got blow away but the hole only looks 3m or so.
There is also no way it was 5m deep. I saw them standing in it and their heads were out the top! Total media bullshit! I hope
it was a forum member and they can show us some kick ass footage! Speaking of footage I am very pissed that my camera
died when yesterday I successfully detonated 400g of PNNM above ground (no way 10g AP would have made that blast ;)) The
shockwave does travel, six of us were some 30-40m away and could feel the shockwave. That was only 400g, to make a crater
that size in Australian soil (fucking hard, compacted and dry as a bone) the "bomb" would have had to have been at least
15kg of ANFO. Spydamonkee's 10kg ANFO made a 5m crater in sand so imagine how much it would have taken to make a
"5m" crater and do it above ground and with our soil type! They would have had a blast ;)

Well whoever did it musta used a shitload of ANFO or some AN based comp. I am suprised the police could recognise the
wreckage was a car.
Even if a forumite did do it and had recorded it, they wouldn't be stupid enough to release the footage just yet, because the
cops would be out for blood.
The article mentions that land was owned by Telstra. Prehaps Telstra could be funding a Terrorist cell after all, considering
there price and service is crimminal.
static_firefly January 10th, 2004, 10:47 AM

Ha its funny. As soon as i saw it on TV i thought " i wonder if there from the fourm?"

A rather poor picture in this article (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/10/1073437520581.html)
To me, it looks like someone's gone and waved his dick in the authorities' faces.

Interesting thing to do with a stolen car ;)
Barcy January 10th, 2004, 06:48 PM

God that was quick to get forums attention, mind you then southern news is alwasy slow to get to where I live. Although the
blast was impressive, even allowing for media exageration of its affect. You have to wander, why do this in an area that people
may notice you and your movements? (bloody idiot)
Presuming this person is a member or may have accessed the forum at some stage, I would suggest anyone living close to
this area take steps to securely hide any resources (chemicals and information materials).
This may be saying "granny here is how you suck eggs", but even if the antiterrorist groups think it is just some dickhead
playing around, it may be a good exercise for them to practice looking for some bomb makers, especially with media and no
doubt soon some political interests.
Just think about this.
Does anyone locally know about my hobby/interests?

Has this person used and purchased chemicals form the same sources as myself?
What is a good source of information for making explosives?
metal dragon January 10th, 2004, 09:07 PM

It seems to me like a copycat that was imitating the Tasmanian Assholes. I believe they caught one of the people
responsible for the bombing. Ha Ha should have been more carefully. Remember it is only illegal if you get caught, what the
authoritie s don t kno w cant hurt you.

"He said it would take some time before police would be able to determine the cause of the explosion"
Umm explosives maybe :rolleyes: I am ashamed to have these nobbers in my country, they can't even figure out what caused
a fucking massive crater...:mad:

The person(s) behind setting off that device are going to have to lie very low for the next few months, or better still leave the
state or Country.
For crying out loud, if you are going to set off a big charge, do it in a place where no one is going to care. These person(s) got
it atleast half right but then, you wouldn't expect the balst to be heard 30-45km away.
I just hope that whoever did this were just a few bored people that had lots of AN, not some militant Islamic group that outs
for blood and testing ipotential devices.

I think they already have him, the CT's raided a house and used 5 'tactical charges' to 'elminate' certain volitile chemicals
(good work you blew up farmer joe's AN fert and cans of fuel for the tractor). The guy lived in Blacktown (very close to the blast
site) and was apparently well know to the neighbours for setting off smaller explosive devices in the vacant lot behind his
house, some large enough to shake the nearby houses. How stupid, firstly setting off tons of crap out the back of your house,
then setting off a massive blast litterally like 5mins from your house, when everyone within 10Km knows you dig blowing shit
up :P
Barcy January 11th, 2004, 04:02 AM

They have the bloke alright.
I just saw the news while enjoying a few drinks with some friends. And I heard a quote something to this effect (mind you I
have been drinking....lots) "...... had only taken an interest in explosives after spending time exploring the internet".
I hope this was not information taken from this site. I am sure that there will be plenty of kids now jumping on the net looking
for this type of information (copycat) and angry parents/teachers wanting something done about it.

Definetly poor judgment on his part, but I wish I coulda seen it! :D

Just heard appraently he used ammonium nitrate and acetone. Or so the forensic's say. Woohoo he used ANFO! Good on him!
static_firefly January 11th, 2004, 09:14 AM

I just heard on the news that the explosive weighed 100kg

Here's a news story (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/11/1073769454740.html)
Some half bright guy knew enough to get the info off the internet and not enough to be inconspicuous about his hobby. He's a
knob and I'll bet the various Australian members will be paying the price.

from the link at the top of the page:
'possession of dangerous articles' what happened to freedom of information?! unless they mean articles in the object type
sense....
'a quantity of chemicals which could be used to make explosives was found.
The chemicals were unstable, so a number of adjoining properties were evacuated and a controlled detonation was carried out'
as everybody knows, chemicals are automatically unstable :rolleyes: fucking cunts!

Bloody blue (khaki for rural areas) uniformed wankers. He was an idiot for setting that charge off though, as he was bound to
be caught.
I am glad that I have a fair amount of AN and won't need to buy more any time soon.
Bong January 12th, 2004, 03:05 AM

When I first heard the news, I didn't think it is home made AN. I though it was more likely to be TNT or RDX. Hell! 100kg of AN
is enough to completely blast down a 7 stories concrete appartment! What a wast of explosive...
Pyrovus January 12th, 2004, 04:18 AM

Just what we need! Some idiot setting off a bloody great big bomb in a place where everyone's going to notice it and playing
into the hands of the chemophobes who want everything banned. Now the public's been nicely scared that such terrifying
chemicals can be easily bought and everyone's pushing for tougher controls, IDs etc. I could just about strangle the guy - did
he spare one moment's thought about how his stupidity is going to make it that much harder for those of us who use these
chemicals carefully and responsibly? Still, according to news reports, strangling was nearly out of the question. Apparently he
set the thing off with a sparkler and was lucky not to be killed. Predictibly the media's using the whole terrorism thing to scare
people, by implying that this bomb may have been "practice" for something "much more sinister". Really, is a terrorist
planning a major bombing going to be stupid enough to do a practice bombing that everybody notices and expect to not be
caught before the real thing? Anyhow, banning this stuff isn't going to stop a single determined terrorist - after all, the
september 11 attacks were carried out with knives, and I don't see any attempt to ban knives. And back on the chemical front,
nearly everything has destructive potential if you look for it. For instance, all you need is salt and a power source to create a
chlorate cell and make an evil terrorist bomb from it. Maybe somebody should set off a bomb using chlorates made by this
method, and see if they try banning salt and electricity. Perhaps they'll try to place barbed wire fences around all the beaches
to stop anybody collecting sea water. Considering the public gullibility regarding anything 'chemical', they'll probably succeed.
Anyone been to dhmo.org? That site proves my point - in some surveys they conducted, 90% of people agreed that water
should be banned. All they needed to do was call it "dihydrogen monoxide", and give some scary but true facts, such as how
inhalation can cause death, and prolonged contact with solid dhmo causes tissue damage. They even managed to convince
the New Zealand Greens Party to make banning DHMO one of their campaign policies!

Well its all over for Australia now! The government is revising issues of pyro licenses and BANNING ALL SALES OF FERILIZER! I
can't believe people can't buy any fertilizer! They arn't issueing any license for the next couple of months whatsoever! We are
fucked. Plus I have been banned from making any HE's from my dad ("until further notice :mad:) "None of that acetone
peroxide stuff, its too loud" So I am stuffed aswell. Plus I havn't got any AN :( So my hopes of buying a sack are gone. I only
have 20kg of KNO3 left aswell :(
To top this shit off they have said the bomb was detonated with a sparkler :mad: My dad ate that bullshit about the sparkler
aswell. He also ate the bullshit about it being a 44 gallon drum. How the fuck would they know it was lite with a sparkler (and it
wouldn't work!) and how the fuck do they know it was a 44 gallon drum! ARRGGHHHHH FUCK THIS COUNTRY AND FUCK
IGNORANCE!!! If we have such experts why can't they understand ANFO doesn't go off with a sparkler!

They haven't banned AN sales yet (at least where I am) but they are seriously considering having a lisence to buy it. Seriously
though what the fuck would that do to stop it, this guy was in a semi-rural area anyway and most farmers would automatically
get a permit becuase it is needed for their damn crops. Then (on some news show) they reminded us that the Oakalahoma
bombing also used 'AN fertaliser', but how would permits for AN help in this case, the people that built that bomb had AN
because they used it for farming and would therefore have a permit anyway. If a terrorist even wanted to blow something up
with AN all they would need to do is get a cheap farm in the middle of nowhere as an excuse to have AN, and don't think they
don't have the money to back it up either, it is probably cheaper than paying for the deaths of a few suicide bombers. This will
really piss off the farmers as well, what more do they need than a record drought, a trade agreement with the US that will
screw them and now the need for a fucking fertaliser licence. And seriously what is the 'terror threat' anyway, there has been
NOTHING on Australian soil, and the bali thing was a while ago now, this was some fool in a paddok with some fert, not a
threat, and yet they are suddenly realising 'hey, exploives are easy' stupid fucking sheep, loud noises scare them into idiocy,
not like they need help for that matter >:-(

The idiots don't realise that terrorists or serious criminals will just steal their AN.
The only people that will be affected are farmers and harmless pyros.
On the ABC news website they have a picture of the car's axle that is labelled "The remains of the bomb" :rolleyes: .

Why do we bother with all this getting angry at the media, they will never change, its all for the story right :rolleyes: What can
we ever do? People are ignorant and don't want the truth. Why bother?
scarletmanuka January 12th, 2004, 09:00 AM

The 7:30 report a.k.a the ABC ACA has decided to join the anti-fertiliser campaign. How is this for a qoute; " We have been
focusing our attention on nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, when common garden fertiliser is a major threat".
Congratulations to the news team who just found out that AN can be used to make "bombs". Next they continued to grill
several government officials on why the nation hasn't banned the sale of all fertiliser yet.
In addition to this recommendation by the ABC ACA I would like to propose a grading system which would help regulate the
sale of fertilisers in accordance to thier potential harm to society.
Class 1.1: To purchase fertiliser in this category requires that the buyer have a licence obtained from the head of anti-
terrorism that proves that:
a) The holder has insufficient IQ to construct a harmful device from the materials in possesion.
b)The holder provides geneology certificates that prove the holder has entirely Anglo saxan heritage for the past ten
generations. No rag head forefathers in the past fifteen.
c)That the holder has adequate security measures to protect the fertilisers ie an underground magazine with 24hour chubb
patrol.
Fertilisers in this class include any fertilisers that contain Nitrogen as either Ammonia or Nitrate or Urea as well as aerial Sulfur
or Phosphates.
Class 1.2 : this pertains to any other chemical fertilisers. the buyer must own a farm, and have proof that he has no
knowledge of science greater than a pass in year nine as well as no access to internet or other mass media.
Class 1.3 This applies to any organic fertilisers ie compost or manure of any kind as well as nitrogen fixing plants and
animals. The buyer must supply proof of residence as well as a qouta by the National Australian Fertiliser Commision which
determines how much fertiliser a person is allowed to possess.
As well as this, deisel vehicles will only be permitted to be sold to personnel with arable land.
By folllowing this simple recomendation, we will never have to worry about fertiliser bombs again.

Thats what the world is like now days or Australia anyway. Just shits me, many Australian members have been using large RHE
charges (As I like to call them, Recreational High Explosives ;)) since who knows when and we don't get caught, but one
dickmuncher fucks it for everyone :mad: Not happy Jan!

Well I've had a hard time finding anything about this on the BBC News site. If they were really taking it seriously as a terrorist
testing his devices, wouldn't it be all over international news that they had caught him?
In fact the closest thing to australia and explosives I found was this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3367397.stm
dangerous things those lavender pillows! Solution - what else... a controlled explosion!
As blindreeper says, getting angry isn't going to help. Until (and if) some big changes come along, the majority of the public
are going to be scared of whatever they are told is dangerous without a second thought.
They don't want to know the truth, because the truth often involves learning details, and actually understanding them. The
majority of people want to just get on with their lives and breed as their genes instruct them to. Taking time out to learn gets
in the way of that.
We can write all we like about how "it wasn't a bomb, it was explosives and there's a difference" but we have to face it, the
only people that will read and truly understand such a comment are us!
Until a time comes when the masses become enlightened, I'm sure a lot of members feel the same powerlessness I do. The
best we can do is continue to take precautions and hope that laws banning fertlizers and such aren't brought in.
In the laws eyes, we have no rights, and we cannot object to these 'measures'.
Ammonal January 13th, 2004, 01:40 AM

Thank christ I heard today that the NSW Police Minister or some arsehole of similar rank has stated that he supports any
move the government makes but believes that it is ludracris(sp?) to ban fertiliser because it can be sourced from another
state and for the people that actually do use it for fertiliser would be inconvenienced by it (this could turn into a similar
argument to gun control if we are not careful).
And as for the ignorant fucks that keep on calling it a "fertiliser bomb" when really there is only a single type of fertiliser that
can be useful as a HE. Sounds to me like this piggy is keen on not banning everyone fertilising theyre gardens and
maintaining theyre pools!
God I am glad I live on a farm and buy Nitram by the tonne!

Care to send some nitram to me! This is good news, I don't like the fertilizer bomb classification, some of my friends are like
"I have some osmocoat and deisel and made the most massive bomb ever!"
spydamonkee January 13th, 2004, 08:41 PM

I knew this would find its way to the forum as soon as i saw it on the news... my first thought was "stupid aussie" hehe Then
"Bloody hope it wasnt a forum member!"
But seriously this idiot has ruined it for alot of other people with his action's & we wont see the end of this for some time.
Across the ditch they are trying to say the "bomb" was estimated to be the same size as Tony Mcviegh's!
There is still controversy on the actual size of his and what was used ... I believe around a thousand kg or more of ANNM....but
i cannot see the idiots device being more than 100kg if that!
We should actually be glad that he wasnt taken out by the device even if he is so stupid to use a sparkler for such a large
device, detonate it locally then get caught! as it would cause a bigger mess for all..... Idiot included
Also to make it clear I, spyDAmonkee did not detonate that ANFO on the beach and neither do I do illegall things like that. I
just found the picture's and video on the net.
Peace :

No it has been said over and over again on the news it was 100Kg's, no where near what mcviegh used, his device cut a
building in half, this one only trashed a car.
Sparky January 13th, 2004, 11:46 PM
Blindreeper: time to find new friends :p .
Today I started a little file of examples of these "type" of stories that the media presents. That way when someone asks me
about it I will have lots of things to back up my loud opinion ;). So far , in the file, I have the dangerous pillow story and a few
things about the story at hand.
BTW, anyone else notice that when the government blows something up it is a "controlled explosion" but when anyone else
blows something up, it is called a bomb? Just something I noticed, sounds a bit too much like doublethink to me.
On to the main point of my post (this rant started small, but got out of hand fast ;)):
The way I see it, the fear mongering people of the world are winning; they have convinced the populace to side with them.
They may have even suceeded in making some of us feel deep down as though our hobbies are illegitimate and wrong and
that we are bad for practicing them. They've even convinced our family and friends that our hobbies are bad and should be
hidden shamefully, like a bastard child. Sneaky. Insidious. It seems we are sitting back and letting them get away with it, like
a twelve year old being told off by teacher for throwing a snowball after hours, off school grounds. We complain, but do
nothing about it because we seem convinced that we are powerless.
It's all well and good to gripe about the ignorance of the public but who here can say they actually have tried to do something
about it? I'm not saying I have, but I still want to make my point. If the public is so stupid, why can we not sway them to our
side? Is the opposing side too talented for us? I think it's because we don't try enough to fight them - to beat them at their
own game. In this particular example I think our australian members should be doing all they can to try and get their pro-
freedom views published in the media. Likewise with the rest of us when this happens in our neck of the woods. I know for a
fact that a lot of people I know are fed up with the usual fair presented in the media. Who's to say our view cannot be
interesting/make a good story as well? Obviously it will have to be dumbed down somewhat but the topic and strange
viewpoint certainly could form an original and exciting article that some reporter might be interested in. Hopefully they don't
twist the story into something bad though. We need to try to gain public sympathy and whatnot. Maybe getting an entire story/
interview would be a bit ambitous.
A more realistic attempt (possibly leading to a story) could be made by pretty much any Australian member. It would be
anonymous too. Write letters to your newspaper, and to the news station. I would say that the most important thing is to get
them published, so don't try to bite off too much at once. Besides, they won't publish anything that is too long. In other words
when writing a letter make it short, clear and as simple as you can so people can understand. I find that the media in Canada
will print letters with opposing views (though not nearly as many as the ones that support their views) but they must be well
written, and what the editor is looking for in terms of style. Given two letters/opinions of equal writing quality and style, the
"soccer mom" one will get published over our kind every time, so we must outdo them. And if it doesn't work at least we can
say we went down fighting instead of hiding and being all resentfull.
Who's to say we cannot meet the soccer moms in their game? As long as there is enough objectivity left in the media to not
deliberately and completely censor us, there is still hope. Remember, dramatic change is most often caused by a small,
organized, (very) vocal and motivated minority. It is groups like these that convince the masses to side with them, and hence
get their way. Currently the people I like to call the soccer moms/fear mongers is a group as such and they are being quite
(way too) effective. Who's to say that the people who love chemistry (especially the high energy kind), fireworks and RHE's
cannot be such a group as well? Let's face it: they are trying to regulating us out of existence and if we don't do something
then they will eventually succeed.
green beret January 14th, 2004, 12:50 AM

Hi All.
Firstly, lets not panic (yet). AN cannot be banned totally because the farmers need it, they can only restrict it. Therefore it IS
still available only it will be harder to get, people who live in a rural or semi rural type area possibly know a farmer or two, or
even live on a farm themselves, those who dont might have a friend of a friend that knows a farmer, so it can be assumed
that with a little work and some asking (carefully) around those in rural ares still have the ability to acess AN. One thing I didnt
mention is theft, farmers arent exactly known for having high security buildings, and taking a 50kg bag of AN should last you
a while. I have personally been to a farm where they had a shed, well out of view from the house, with bags of KN03, and
some other less usefull things, that was never ever locked!
For those in city areas, you may still be able to get AN from instant cold packs,they cant ban them, although they could
replace the AN with something else. But, alot of people in city areas could still know people in the country. The government
wont be banning hydrogen peroxide, acetone or hydrochloric acid anytime soon either. There are bound to be some shonky
dealers who will still sell AN anyhow, especialy through mail order and such.
So in the end, if you want it you will still get it. As for KN03, we'll have to wait and see whether they restrict it too, I think I will
stock up on urea, has anyone ever detonated straight urea? That may be worthy of some testing.
As for the person who did this, if he was a true pyro, he would have thought out the concequences for everyon else, and
detonated this charge way out bush. He is a pure bred wanker. But yes, it would've been a nice show.;)

I'm happy that every night here there have been at least some fireworks going off near my house, at least people like
pyrotechnics when it isn't big and scary with the words 'volitile' 'dangerous' and 'terroist' used too often. I may try to get some
'explosives facts' published in a newspaper editorial, but basically if you are anyone that thinks explosives are good you are
the enemy in newthink. (I'm sure my letter would be assailed by the angry ignorant about how I am supporting terrorism,
endangering lives and asking for trouble)

There is some limited explosives info going out in the mass media it seems.
The other night I was lucky enough to catch the beginning of a program called 'Ultimate Explosions' on Channel 5 here in the
UK.
During the course of the program some tests were demonstrated by an explosives engineer including detonating a few kilos of
ammonal (they even revealed ammonal's composition!). Also, they dropped an anvil on top of a block of TNT between
plywood, and placed another block of TNT in a fire, neither causing the detonation of the explosive.
The engineer went on to explain that one needs a primary explosive to set off secondaries like TNT!
This is detail I have never seen broadcast before, and I can only hope that plenty of sheeple saw it and took some of it in.
However it seems Eastenders (soap) was on BBC1 at the time so my hopes were dashed. The fact remains that you aren't
going to look out for, begin watching and sit through a program called 'Ultimate Explosions' unless you are interested yourself,
or forced to do so by someone who is.
I like the point about the controlled explosion / bomb, Sparky. I'd never really thought about that before. Maybe every time
the government does a controlled explosion, we could hand out flyers saying "Government detonates bomb in London" or
words to that effect. In fact, we should at least think of some possible ways to get the information / our point of view out
there.

Well I can say now that we arn't on that much of an alert for loud noises. Today SWIM witnessed the detonation of 1.25kg of
PNNM. I will ask the blaster if I can post pics and footage up here in the next couple of days. The fully licenced blaster left the
camera at his friends house and will be getting a CD with with movies and pictures tomorrow. He should be able to host them
somewhere :)
Lil_Guppy January 16th, 2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Pyrovus
Just what we need! Some idiot setting off a bloody great big bomb in a place where everyone's going to notice it and playing
into the hands of the chemophobes who want everything banned. Now the public's been nicely scared that such terrifying
chemicals can be easily bought and everyone's pushing for tougher controls, IDs etc.This may be a bit late, and may have
already been said, but whose to say it wasn't all staged (*cough* Port Arthur - gun control *cough*) to do just that. Scare
people (read: sheeple) into begging the government to restricting people freedoms. As for the ABC, I wish they would actually
think about things before opening their dumbass mouths. So what, lets ban ammonium nitrate. Then we'll ban acetone,
hydrogen peroxyde, methyl ethyl ketone, and all of those other extremely common chemicals because they can be used to
make bombs. Then, while we are at it, lets ban knives, forks and spoons (metal, wodden and plastic) because they can be
used to kill. Then we will issue out licences for absolutely everything. Me: 'I need to take a crap' Toilet Security: 'Let me see
your permit and 5000 points of identification followed by a retina scan and an anal probe'. I know thats getting a bit stupid,
but seriously, when are they going to stop...

Blindreeper, I look forward to seeing your friends video, I hope he will supply specifications on detonator size and construction.

Half the bloody problem with all this banning and restricting of chemicals is that it is for "pre emptive measures". There has
only ever been one major bombing on Australian soil with was many years ago. I can't remember many details about it other
then that.
If Australia was getting weekly or daily terrorist bombing or bomb threats then the authorities would have a stronger argument
on why some compounds should be restricted. However Australia doesn't have an active terrorist orginisation like Britian and
Ireland did for the past 20-30 years.
Anath January 17th, 2004, 08:13 AM

The one major bombing was the Sydney Hilton bombing, back in 1978, routinely called a "massive bomb" or "hundreds of
kilo's of high explosive", which has always impressed me as they managed to fit it into a garbage bin. (Aussies will know the
ones, a tin garbage bin in a strap steel 'basket'.. used to be popular in Sydney)
There have been a few minor explosive efforts here and there as well, mainly suburban car bombs and one or two 'suicide
bombers'. Google reveals all.
Australia's only 'terrorist organization' per se would be the Radical Green Left or "rent-a-crowd" doleys who get bussed around
the country from Nimbin to attend rallies and protests.
Nitro Tola January 23rd, 2004, 04:27 AM

Why they think explosives are a problem in Australia has got me stuffed.. Apart from the odd firecracker, 95% of Australians
have no interest in explosives, and most that do (Like us) only use them for recreation anyway. Heres my point.. when drugs
are such a huge problem in Australia and you can buy the chemicals needed to produce hard amphetamines OTC in a chemist
store, and nothing gets said about that (except when they bust some fool with 500 boxes of panadol in his boot), but as soon
as farmer Joe's retarted nephew lets off a shitload of ANFO in Sydney, it's like O FUCK call the bomb squad (which are
dumbshits anyway, and probably more of a threat to the country than anyone with thier controlled "safety" blasting) Were
under attack by Al qie da! Stop them selling any chemicals which can be used to produce explosives... for fuck sake... They've
already banned the guns... don't ban our chemicals because of the odd idiot... Thats my humble opinion.
Unknown February 6th, 2004, 12:50 AM

They are starting to think that explosives are a problem here in Califonia too because of dumbasses like this guy, Dumbass
(http://www.ktvu.com/news/2808949/detail.html) , who fortunately got caught before he could do something really stupid.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Myrol and nitroesters
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nuclearattack January 10th , 2004, 07:19 AM

i found 5 liters of methyl alcool and i'm very interested about myrol (m ethyl nitrate), it is very powerfull and brisance but it is
also very volatile and m ust be well stabilized (like all nitroesters).
I think the best choice is to m a k e a p l a s t i c e x p losive with it, so it is more stable and easy to m a n a g e . I m a d e a s e a r c h i n t h e
forum but se ems that nobody is very interested about myrol, i found very little posts with poor inform ations. Finally i found a
synthesis procedure in KIPE 2, after the nitratio n they extract m yrol by distillation, why myrol can't be extracted as
nitroglycerin?
It's better and easy to use a separatory funnel instead of a distillation apparatus.
Can i nitrate methyl as for nitroglycerin? I think i can use the sam e p r o c e d u r e a n d s e p a r a t i o n p r o c e s s .
i ' d l i k e t o h a v e s o m e t i p s o n m yrol synthesis or a complete procedure.
Another question: can i nitrate ethyl alcool as the others esters?
------------------
I already told you to work on your language. Use capitalization. I'm not going to tell you again!
Rhadon

Although methylnitrate (have you searched this keyword on the forum ?) is VERY powerful and rather sim ple to prepare, it has
s o m e rather vicious p roperties.
F o r e x a m ple, the destillation is not without any hazard, as m ethylnitrate is very sensitive, both to heat and shock. Also,
m ethylnitrate is already somewhat volatile at room temperature and the fum es are very toxic, causing even more fierce
headaches than glycerinetrinitrate.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > looking fo r italians m e m b e r s !
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View Full Version : looking for italians members!

i'm looking for italian m embers to work with and share knowledge.
if so m e o n e i s i n t e r e s t e d p l e a s e e m ail m e:
g a m marayburst@tiscali.it
thanks rhadon for interesting about it but i had already thought about this. The e mail address is a nonym u s !
--------------------
T h a t e m ail address is registered under your real nam e, right? If so, it's not a good idea to post it here. Make up an
a n o n y m ous one and insert it by editing your post. If it's not registered under your real nam e, just put it in again.
Rhadon

Hi, Im italian and thi is m y first post,this forum is great and is full of nice stuff
I h a v e s o m e s k i l l s i n c h e m istry

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > where to post about m ailign
stuff?
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notSOwise January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 4 7 P M

ok i read the rules of this fourm and i dont wanna post in the wrong spot and i cant seem to find what iam l o o k i g n f o r s o h e r e
goes.......
where woudl i post qu estions or comm ents about how the m ailign system works...customs and gettign stuff threw cu stom s
acros boarde rs and suck how the xray stuff works allt hat kinda stuff...
i ordered a b eautiful switch ba lde from italy...its new hom e is at customs..........and i will probly never see it...so how do other
people get this stuff liek knives and guns in the mail and not get it seized?
iam willing to investia g e a n d r e s a r c h e a n d r e p o rt all i find on this fourm...but if its going to be disreguarded as crap and not
even aknowleged...th en i wont waist m y tim e....iam just trying to help
Rhadon January 10th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 1 8 P M

If people saw that you made an effort to write your post properly they m ight be willing to help you. But since you ob viously
type d it up in less than one m inute...
Hang-Man January 11th , 2004, 12:14 AM

YouShld Pst itin thewtr colar bcs its nott im portn
T h e r e , y o u c a n s p e n d 5 m inutes deciphering m y answer, beca u s e that s ho w m uch tim e I s p e n t f i g u r i n g o u t y o u r q u e s tion. If

y o u re still having trouble PM me a n d I ll send you a PDF entitled Operating yo u K e y b o r d - I t ' s a s e a s y a s t h e s p a c e b a r

Hang man, PMing has been disabled.
Also, it's convenient if you put a link to your PGP key in your pro file.
notSOwise January 11th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 3 3 P M

i'm sorry about not re reading m y post well enuf...but i am gathering info on UPS as we speak... also where do i get m y pgp
key...if you want to em ail m e what you know just ask
xyz January 12th , 2004, 12:29 AM

UAFSE for the PGP key, Learn som e p r o p e r s p e l l i n g a n d g r a m m a r a n d t h e n p e o p l e m ight have a little m ore respect for you.

I was referring to Hang-m an, because he has a fingerprint in his profile but not a key.
I just posted it in this thread because it's worth shit anyway because of your reluctance to spell correctly.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Blast chamber
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warren January 12th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 4 0 P M

Hey, I live in the city and there are soccer mom s all around and they will be on th e phone in no tim e if they even hear a
firecracker (I live in C anada there illegal). It is also winter and I don't feel like go ing all the way out to m y blast site to light off
s m a ll AP salutes or cobs, M-80's and the like so if som e o n e c o u l d h e l p m e out or give m e tips on how-to m a k e a b l a s t
chamber that would reduce sound it would be appreciated. I searched google and only fou nd how to m a k e b i g b l a s t c h a m b e r s
a n d b l a s t c h a m bers for heatin g things up (like knives and sword s).
Haggis January 12th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 0 : 1 5 P M

A high quality contain m e n t d e v i c e c a n b e m a d e b y s e v e ral old tires stack ed on each other buried underground. Such a device
would need a lid, and plywood with a cinderblock or sim ilar on top would suffice. T he tires are quite t o u g h , a n d c a n t a k e s o m e
p u n i s h m ent.
Another chamber, although less effective, is a few cinde rblocks stacked ontop of eachothe r underground. As with the tire, it
m ust have a lid.
The cinderblock is inferior to the tires as the tires have areas in which the noise and gases get trapped. Also the rubber can
give slightly where the cinderb lock m ay and will crack. If using the cinderblock idea, proper tam ping is a m u s t . M a k e s u r e t h e r e
is no room between the outer wall of the block and the dirt outside, this will give the pressure a way to go, and will increase
your likelyhood of cra cking. Tires are optimal if you can do it.
Another option is simply burying it. A 7 gram flash salute, when under around 12 inches of soft soil, turns out to a thum p an d
a cloud of dirt in the air.
knowledgehungry January 13th , 2004, 08:51 AM

W hat I use is a 5 gallon pail filled with sand, 3 gram s of AP m a k e s n o n o i s e . y o u c a n u s e s a n d b a g s a s i n s u l a t i o n f o r a b i g g e r
box too.

O n e i d e a i s a 4 5 / 5 5 g a l l o n d r u m buried in the ground with a con crete filled tyre as a lid.

Or you could take up ice fishing. Just don't han g out too close to the hole.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > newbie kn o 3 q u e s t i o n
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jackhammer January 13th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 4 7 P M

W hatever else I may be able to offer this forum, I am a very am ateur chemist. I was wondering (and I have searched the
forum a n d t h e n e t , a n d s o I k now this is possible but I'm not quite sure how it is done) how I might m a k e p o t a s s i u m nitrate
from potash. I was th i n k i n g o f u s i n g a m m o n i u m nitrate in the process, which I have (I do not have sodium nitrate) but I am
unsure where to go after that. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Guerilla January 13th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 3 : 4 5 P M

Just dissolve them both in water and b oil it until theres no am monia released, then chill (or boil the water down) the solution
and collect your KNO 3. Not very fast method, but you get pretty pure KNO 3 this way..
K 2 C O 3 + 2NH4NO3 => 2KNO3 + CO2 + 2 NH3 + H2O

Jack h a m m er, I think I accidentally disapproved your answer to this topic.
Y o u a s k e d h o w l o n g y o u n e e d to boil it, right? Of course that does depent on the amounts you use and how much heat you
apply. If you had read Guerilla's post post you would know that you need to heat it until the NH3 has been given off almost
c o m p l e t e l y ( i t m a y b e c o m e n e c e s s a r y t o a d d s o m e m ore water during that process), then you can evaporate the liquid and
have KNO3 left.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Apache Sniping
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Read the article and watch the video, I can also post another site where i original watched it first.
Apache (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-1.html)
:eek:

Please post the other site, this one doesn't want to work.

Works for me.

I dont want to have to pay, is it on the internet anywhere else?
McGyver January 14th, 2004, 12:14 AM

Ok here it is, didn't post it the first time becuase i didnt feel like looking at the source code of the site..
apache 30mm nose gun, explosive rounds (http://www.newsfilter.org/user_submit/uploads/apache_NEW.wmv)
Nicker January 14th, 2004, 01:00 AM

Shitt, thats all i can say, explosive rounds loook prertty scarry. i got some brass caseings from 20mm and 30mm shells and their pretty big to begin with, add explosives to it
and thats just scarry. "The 30mm gun systems were very lethal and destroyed targets at ranges out to 4 kilometers when accurate." ...each gun firing 7-8 rounds per second.
One scarry long distance gun.
------------
Although you're posting in the Water Cooler you should take yourself a bit more time to type up your post.
Rhadon
SpiffyVision January 14th, 2004, 01:05 AM

That is quite sick IMO, after that first guy whos shot while walking back to the truck in the field, you can see his various pieces scattered with the heat vision, or that could just
be the ground... welcome to your average combat day in war...

ALEGOSVIG1, I am sorry if I worded that confusingly, what I meant is that the video won't work unless you pay for it. The link works fine.
Thanks for posting the second one McGyver.
Wild Catmage January 14th, 2004, 01:02 PM

Four kilometres is quite a distance. the rag-heads probably didn't have a clue as to where the shots were coming from :D
However, the therrmal image in the video isn't perfect, and unless that whitish thing about 11 seconds into the video is some sort of field gun, how do we know that the people
on the recieving end aren't innocents? Many of the civilians in Iraq carry shoulder arms.
The Soviet Mi-24 Hind was reported to be able to fire accurately over distances of 1km with its four-barrel 12.7mm machine gun during the Afghanistan war (1972-1988).
Sparky January 14th, 2004, 05:56 PM

I think Nicker was saying the gun is accurate ot 4 km, not necessarily that they were firing that far in the video.
I find this video very interesting. There are a few questions I have about it. Probably because I don't know all that much about military stuff. We hear a gun firing in the
beginning of the video, is that a different gun on the helicopter, firing somewhere else?
I wonder what the thing was that the guy came out the top of (or at least that's what it looked like). My first reaction was that it might be a tank but I don't know about that...
Maybe a farm machine since it looks like it was grooming the ground or something from the trail behind it.
Im surprised the second guy didn't take cover before unwrapping his thing, he might have made it. I think they had no idea of how closely they were being watched. You think
the last guy might have made it if he hid behind the truck, and didn't crawl out like he did (?) I remember seeing a bombing video of the same nature, and if the targets had
just stayed still it would have been much harder to see them and they may have been overlooked. But they kept crawling around and getting up to run away. I mean, jeeze
where are you gonna run to anyways?

The nose cannon on the apache apperantly has a range finder which automaticaly finds and stores the distance of the taget into the computer. What happens in the beggining
is that the gunner didn't have the right range on the target. You can here him say "fuck" because the first shots they fired probably landed either farther or closer then the
target. The nose gunner can also rotate the gun in any direction, as you can see in the video. You can hear the pilot and gunner talking about this.
So that leaves a few questions of my own. Did they hear the helicopter hovering around, and what did they think of the shots that missed them and exploded not to far away?
Interesting point about that guy trying to unwrap something, maybe it was stinger.

It could have been a stinger, if they WERE 4 km away, would they have heard the helicopter?

There are two aircraft mounted 30mm cannons I know of. The first is the GAU-8/A avenger cannon which is mounted on the A-10. A short burst From the GAU-8/A can shred a
tank in seconds. the GAU-8/A is has 7 barrels and is too big for the apache.
The other type of cannon is the M-320 which is on the apache and the one you saw in the video.
The M-230 is a smaller cannon the then the GAU-8 as it has only a single barrel and a lower rate of fire.
The M230 does have high explosive incendary ammo which do contain copper linears. There are also DU ammo avaliable to use.
As you have already gathered a 30mm cannon is overkill when dealing with human targets. I would hate to see what those guys looked like after they had been with 30mm
ammo if there was anything left, not to mention the damage to truck the cannon would have caused.
shooter3 January 15th, 2004, 08:35 PM

Soldiers pretending to be farmers. A real farmer would have hit the deck or took off running.
That guy unwrapping the gun/missle kept his cool under fire. Now he is cool, or at least ambient temperature.
It's sad to see someone die like that. The ragheads should quit.

I have had a look at that video footage quite a few times now. There are some things I noticed:
1. If you look at the bottom right corner you will see the range and amount of ammo the M320 has left. I am not sure what measurement the range is in, but knowing the
Yanks it is proably Feet or Yards.
2. The people in the photo dont seem to be carrying any weapons such as AKs and there seems to be no outline of heavy weapons in the video.
3. There are 3 trucks one has a semi trailer on it the other one looks like a dump truck and the third is a ute all of them get shredded by the apaches cannon.
4. At the start of the video there is cannon fire but you don't see any bullets flying (they show up on the thermal camera because they are hot) this is due to the cannon I think
being not configured properly. As a result the bullets dont land where the crosshair is pointing.
If those people that were shot up were not combatants I wouldn't be surprised since there were no weapons. The footage from that camera is only a small portion of the total
flight time anyway so we don't see the big picture.
McGyver January 17th, 2004, 03:56 AM

found an extened video... http://home.comcast.net/~antman01/apache_mission_in_iraq.avi
It does look like an RPG they guy droped of, but the apache literaly killed a few farmers Joes because at least one guy had to own that field and tractor.

If farmer Akhem lets some terr use his fields to stage an attack on american soldiers...hey, shit happens in the form of 30mm HE cannon shells! :p
Chemical_burn January 17th, 2004, 05:36 AM

^^^ as Nightstalker points out it doesnt mater if there were noncombatants there they are leting teroriest use there field to hide weapons they die too.
Also Farke2m the US military is like every other military out there we do it right by using the Metric system ;)

Anyone got any idea why the first link works, but the second one comes thru with audio and music graphics, no vidio.

shooter3, it needs the divx codec which can be got hold of at http://www.divx.com just download their simplest (free) package.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > PAR T A L d e t o n a t i o n
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Mr. Boombastic January 15th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 2 5 P M

Hi! to you all!
I a m a little bit confused!
I did a search on this but didnt find an yting usefull (and m y net explorer is exasperating m e too wit hall those errors)
In encyclopeadia it was said that: deto nation is a reacton that goes from layer to layer (of the HE) So it me ans that this is a
chane reaction.
I u n d e r s t a n d it this way: detonator egnites one or som e layers of the explosive a nd this layer serves as a det. to the next
one, and so on....
My question is : how com e y o u s o m e t i m e s h a v e P A R T I A L d e t o n a t i o n . ( I s i t r e l a t e d t o h o m ogenycity (if it ie speld th is way) or
phisical features .... e. s.

If you at leat could try to mak e your post look halfway decent, n ow that could make m e h a p p y !
You really expect people to spend their time on answering your questions if you don't even take yourself five minutes to typ e
up your post halfway properly?
blindreeper January 15th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 4 9 P M

T h e s i m ple answer is that the detonator does not provide a largen enough shock for the secondary to detonate.
metafractal January 15th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 2 1 P M

As I understand it, partial detonation occurs when the shockwave from the detonator does not disa s s o c i a t e e n o u g h o f t h e
explosive to create a self-sustaining reaction. It has always been something that puzzled me though...
Mr. Boombastic January 16th , 2004, 11:19 AM

Rhadon, sorry for that mistake. I am decently asking anybody if they could help m e. If you know somethin g - p l e a s e s h a r e y o u r
info., if you can`t help-stop showing of and piss off!
Blindreeper-acording to your theory the 2-ondary explosive does not even detonate, but in partial deton. som e layers are
detonated.
i still think that it has somethink to do with physical features OR the other theory : For som e HE (insensetive ones like AN ) it
is not enough to activate one layer-the booster has to be so powerfull that it egnites so m any laye rs that they form a notable
% of the whole HE and at least half way egnites other layers that will be supported by the egnited ones later. The stronger the
the boster th e faster detonation-isn`t it?
W hat do you think about it?

If you know som ething-please share your info., if you can`t help-stop sh owing of and piss off! Has anyone shown off in this
topic? I can see no-one doing so!
In any case, I don't like you to talk ou t of your ass when addressing other m e m b ers. Only a few days ago, we had som e o n e
who used to do that. His nam e w a s k e i t h . M a y b e y o u w a n t t o d o a s e a r c h a n d s e e w h a t h a s h a p p e n e d t o h i m ?

I have this feeling he ' d n e e d a n a n i m ated gif to find the search button. Spellchecker would be too com plicated
anyway...:rolleyes:
nbk2000 January 16th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 1 3 P M

T o q u o t e M r . B o o m bastic:
I know I won`t end up well, but there is nothing m uch I can do about it.
How very true. :p
A n d t h e d u m bfuck couldn't even spell "Partial" correctly, and he's getting pissy as a mod for correcting his shitty english?
:mad:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C ruise Missle Man Arrested in
NZ?
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mr.pyro January 15th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 0 1 P M

I just heard he was arrested today, apparently he came through and built the missle for under $5000 and, aparently, they
tested it and it worked fine.
Dave Angel January 16th , 2004, 12:13 AM

Is the news of the arrest on the web yet? W hat did they charge him with exactly? The latest story I've found was from the 9th
of Decem ber 2003:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3302763.stm
http://www.techdirt.com /article s / 2 0 0 3 1 2 0 9 / 1 8 2 4 2 4 5 . s h t m l
mr.pyro January 16th , 2004, 12:58 AM

My dad said that he heard it somewhere thru som e form o f m e d ia.
nbk2000 January 16th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 0 8 P M

W ell, unless you dad runs CNN.com , or BBC.com, I'll wait for som e m o r e r e p u t a b l e s o u r c e t o s a y t h i s h a p p e n e d b e f o r e
c o m m enting on it.
Though, would it be surprising ?
Not really. You post a website about how you'll m a k e a D I Y c r u i s e m issle for under $5K an d post it to the net for all your fellow
fedaykin to build, and then wonder about why the paranoid, post 9/11 world governm ent, would arrest you for it. :ro lleyes:
There's just som e things you don't do...publicly that is.
McGyver January 16th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 1 1 P M

How much would you be able to get $, if you sold it on the black m arket?

W e already have a th read con cerning this m atter....
tzzz, tzzz, NBK, you're dissapointing m e...:p

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Idiot of the month
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View Full Version : Idiot of the month

Just another example of why 12 years olds shouldn't be allowed near a computer without adult supervision. I got this from a PC magazine.
"If anyone reading this is considering on going on a rampage and killing teachers and fellow students at their school, they should take a leaf from Freddy Fan's book. This American 12 year old posted on a public
forum that he was going to kill teachers and students in his school the following day, stating "I'm going to kill my teacher tomorrow and a lot of of other people in my school. I'll probaly kill a lot of people." When
challenged on his claim in some of the responses, Fab replied, writing "Guys I am not kidding around. I am serious. If they blame it on the horror movies I'll tel them that horror movies had nothing to do with this.
I won't be in deep shit because I'll be killing everybody who stands in my way. If I get killed then I'll be happy with that."
Unsurprisingly the police took note, found the identity of the boy from his ISP and now have him in custody after finding a hunting knife in his school bag."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[Falls off chair laughing]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This Kid should be locked up for making empty threats. He'd have to be Rambo if he think we can kill a school full of people with a hunting knife and lets not forget; Police have guns not knives.

I read a few weeks ago, I even saw the thread on the forum he posted it in... That kid is definetly a dumbass. (the forum was one on horror movies if anyone is wondering what the movie quote is about) I can look
for the site, but it was a while ago...
Speakle January 16th, 2004, 02:36 AM

What is the deal with killing people in schools lately? There was something in the news the other day about 2 kids being arrested because they had plans and everything about taking hostage and killing most of a
school here. This was 2 dumbasses who's classmates said they were just crying for attention because they were not very popular. I myself have a 3 year old son and am quite nervous about his highschool days.
When I was in school (not very long ago) this sort of thing was never heard of.

No reason to be too worried about something like that actually happening, it's statistically VERY unlikely. You should be more worried about your kid eating right and actually learning in school. Sorry if that sounds
like a lecture...
IDTB January 16th, 2004, 06:57 AM

Perhaps it should be "Idiot of the Week" because dumbasses like this are too frequent. You really have to be a highschool student to understand why there's so much violence in highschool. I could write a really
large article about it, but it's mostlikely of no interest.

I understand why. It just seems to me that this sort of thing is too well known now. 5 years ago something like this would have been a huge shock and 10 years ago it was completely unheard of. At some point in
time the violence in school became all too common news. Watching the news and hearing that some kid got shot in school is not much of a surprise anymore which is a shame.

I blame nigger rap... :p
Seriously though, I wonder if nigger rap fits the definitions of an infectious disease? If not it's probably pretty damn close.

I guess its a possibility with some people but it just doesnt make sense. I mean how can someone be so easily drawn into such a stupid lifestlye. You would have to have no common sense and be very
impressionable to let something as simple as music dictate the way you live your life.
peterthesmart January 16th, 2004, 09:36 PM

It's nice to see the kids putting in some planning and even telling people about it, but its not really necessary. Its just hard getting the weapons I would assume. Take a look at a school today, almost no security
devices. No metal detectors, xray machines, any of that stuff. If the kid is really mad enough, why doesnt he just go do it.
chemwarrior January 16th, 2004, 09:45 PM

Lets hope he doesnt do it because he has a bit of sanity left...
This is rather disturbing as there are numerous people in my school who give me the impression of "lets kill all these people! We'll be famours!"... and I have to deal with those morons for the next next year and a
half....

Yes, you kill all the people and be famous as some of the youngest people to be given a life term of man fucking Buba rape, smart thinking you smoothe criminals :P. There is really no gun violence to speak of here,
I'm not sure if a child has ever been shot and killed purposly at school by another student in my state, we certainly don't have nearly as much security as US schools, no metal detectors, no searches, no security
guards etc.
Sparky January 17th, 2004, 01:45 AM

Ahh, highschool. Primary school too. It can be horrible being a kid. In fact, me and my friends have made a sort of pact to remember what we went through in the school system. All too often I see parents who just send their
children off to the same fate, placing blind trust in the system to bring up their kids. They seem to think that it worked for them, and it can work for their children. I think they selectively forget what it's like because they do
not want to face the fact that the same sort of thing is happening to their kids. They delude themselves into thinking that it is for their childrens own good and t hat school really isn't so bad. I have t hought about the issue for
many, many hours by now. Time and again the only conclusion I come to is this:
The issue of a school system and childhood is very complex. As far as I can see it's not really possible to make a blanket statement about it that will apply to everyone, and have one big solution. All I know is that
I remember the living hell it can inflict upon students. The simple, unescapable and obvious mental anguish the entire school experience causes. I conclude that something that causes so much pain has something
very, very wrong with it. What to do about it is something I have many ideas on but no solid answer.
Childhood, and being a young teenager can be a horrible time. Such, Such Were the Joys by George Orwell had me nodding my head in agreement a lot. From what I have observed, many adults tend to think of childhood as an
innocent time when children don't have to worry about anything. Maybe for some lucky few this is true. When I was young, there was really nothing for me to worry about. But the school system ruined that. They created the
illusion that I had to do well or I would fail in life. So I worked my ass off, despite how much I hated it. And the times I wasn't doing school work there was a nagging sensation in the back of my mind that I should be. This
effectively ruined the free time that I did have. A perpetual sense of "I'm just taking a break, an will be back to school soon" haunted me. This is where school is different from a nine to 5 job. There is no getting away from it
because the homework is always there. It tends to consume one's entire life if one isn't careful. The haunting sense I was talking about is like when you wake up early and are just dozing, in the back of your mind you know tha
you must wake up completely soon. In this same way there was the thought that I should be doing homework, but (at good times) I reasoned that I could afford to postpone it until later. The only way to temporarily eradicate
this feeling was to lose myself in something, usually a fictional book. As the work load increased and my free time decreased these 'vacations' unavoidably ended up in me feeling that I had just procrastinated and now I was
more screwed than ever in terms of time to get the stuff done. The ironic part is of course that (I now realize) early grades are really quite useless, even more so than later (pre-grade 11) grades. I could have slacked off, been
happy, mellowed out and enjoyed my childhood. The only conflict might have been my parents might have minded a bit (there you go another source of imaginary pressure or at least pressure without due cause) but Im not even
sure about that. I could have had a good time even learned something useful.
The whole point of doing well at all this school stuff was of course to get into a good university. I had always thought that the marks from earlier grades were not really what the universities looked at, but the doubt that this
was true drove me to apply myself in these earlier grades anyways. Besides, I reasoned that this doing well in earlier grades would help me when it really mattered. In a way it did, but only really from grade 7 on. School
stresses too much that you have to prepare for next year, when really it is quite similar to the year before. The truth (it seems) that I can see now is that the only purpose these grades serve is to prepare you for grade 12,
who s grades get you into university. I think that taking my time and w orking on things that really mattered I w ould be far better prepared than doing what I did and following w hat the teacher says to do.
Going back to the unescapable point, I believe it is this aspect of school that leads to suicide. If you've ever experienced the amazing sense that school inflicts, of being forced to do something, then it is probably quite obvious
why high school students kill themselves. There simply seems like no other option. Personally I am not dead because I have always thought that I might as well give it one last shot. If things really turn out shitty then it's tim
to crank up the old CO and have a nap. Death is the last resort. I think some people jump the gun though. Probably because the sense of having no other options is even more built up than mine. I have, like most people, read
various articles and such about suicide. They all tend to talk about how the mother never loved their son, or whatever. These things are probably contributing factors, but IME probably not the main source. Nothing that I have
yet read has me going "Ya, I totally know what you mean". I m guessing this is because such articles are written by people long since out of touch with what it was like to be a teenager. I think people off themselves because it
would be because it simply seems there is no other reasonable option to improve their experience, and as-is it is not worth living. In other words, it s the only way out of their current suffering. Attempted suicide could also be
a (far less sure) way out and I do think there is some credibility to the cry for help theory about attempted (and usually badly bot ched) suicide.
While Im thinking about it I ll just take a moment to complain about the current band-aid solution so common today. Terrorists are killing people, so try to prevent t hem from getting w eapons. Students are committing suicide,
so have a seminar and send some to a psychologist or psychiatrist. Students are killing other students so have metal detectors in the schools. All of these things have something in common; they are trying to suppress the
s ymptom of a larger problem (I m not saying the cause of terrorism is the same as student suicide though ;) ). It s like having a painful infection, so you t ake pain killers. This only suppresses the symptom, the underlying cause
remains and it will only get worse and worse until you cannot suppress it any more.
Maybe the problem with school is that there is just so damn much of it. 6 hours a day, 5 days a week plus encountable homework. If one likes it (pff, ya right) it's dandy. But as soon as it becomes a negative thing
then it can easily become the absolute bane of one's life.
ibuprofen January 17th, 2004, 02:21 AM

"they are tr ying to suppress the symptom of a larger problem (I m not saying the cause of terrorism is the same as student suicide though "
Hmm.. sometimes it is, though. Bullying, a feeling of underrepresentation and exploitation and powerlessness in both cases leads to desparate measures. From your language I am assuming (?) you are not in the
US (we say 12th grade, not grade 12 usually). I never felt that kind of pressure to perform. Granted, I was generally smarter than most people the whole time and everything was pretty easy for me, so I never did
the homework and never cared, and therefore a lot of people (who had to work hard) hated and bullied me. I would venture to say the pressure you felt was likely more from (or perceived to be from) your parents
rather than the school system itself. I did not feel such pressure or nagging in the back of my head at all, except when I really was putting something off that I should have been doing.
There was also the issue of social acceptance, for example, in even my elementary school there were distinct social strata based on one's leisure activities, wardrobe, athletic ability, etc., and from there it just
got worse. This was a much greater pressure on me than academic concerns during that period of my life and I have a feeling for those who feel like I did it is the more likely source of feelings that they would like to
terrorize their fellow students and have a brief feeling of power while going out in a blaze of glory.
I never understood it though, how people thought killing anyone who happened to be around made them powerful. I always wished I could somehow get back at those who had wronged or disrespected me, but had
no ill will toward the other regular students in the school. It's a far stretch from hating those who bully you to hating everyone else in the whole world enough to kill them all that I think parents should have plenty
of time to catch it and it is their responsibility to do so.

The big difference between school and a 9-5 job was something I became painfully aware of too.
I think one of the big problems for teenagers is that they lack the coping skills that are needed when shit happens. Those skills have to be learned the hard way, and it takes time.
fire vs. water January 17th, 2004, 09:12 AM

This doesn't really have to do with the subject of killing people, but certainly an idiot...:
movie of idiots (http://pya.cc/pyaimg/img/2003122514.wmv)

Heh, those kewls were last months idiots, look for the thread kewls on tape. It's still funny to watch, in a sadistic kinda way...
CommonScientist January 17th, 2004, 10:00 PM

"He'd have to be Rambo if he think we can kill a school full of people with a hunting knife and lets not forget; Police have guns not knives." - Never ever bring a knife to a gunfight, its just common sense. A lil off
subject but arnt schools like perfect paintball feilds? You have a lot of cover to deal with , and its not as boring as a corn feild or a woods. I would prefer it, everyone could get dressed in swat uniforms. Typical 12
year old, gets mad at his teacher and says he is gonna kill him/her. Isnt that why they have couselers?

Never ever bring a knife to a gunfight, its just common sense.
On the contrary, at close range a knife is superior to a gun.
No noise, no jamming or need to reload, cheap and infinitely disposable, no ballistics to match, etc. Oh, and you can draw and stab several times with a knife in the time it'd take to draw and fire one round from
the gun. Knives can cut at any angle, while guns can only kill what's in a direct line with the barrel.
Amthony:
The big difference between school and a 9-5 job was something I became painfully aware of too.
Which is better? School or the 9-5 job?

"Oh, and you can draw and stab several times with a knife in the time it'd take to draw and fire one round from the gun."
Thats a bit of a general statement, I think I could shoot more often per second with even a semi-auto pistol than you could stab, remove and re-stab a big chunk of meat, and this isn't even factoring in burst fire
and full auto weaponry.

Actually, since it's the exact same movement, drawing a holstered gun would take the same time as pulling a knife. Also, if I was in a real hurry, and you were close, I could start shooting once the gun was aimed
at your legs (~45 degrees?) and let the recoil bring the gun up, negating any advantage you might have from pulling the knife and slashing in the same movement. A bullet in the thigh or shin would probably make
you drop the knife, and if it didn't, it would definitly slow you down enough for me to pump the other 10 rounds into your torso. Really, the only deciding factor would be reaction time.
And that's only if you were a couple of feet away and pulled a knife on me. Now imagine I'm armed with a pistol and you, covered in blood and waving a hunting knife, charge at me. Do you really think you could
cover any resonable distance before I got my gun up?
Knives only work if they're pointed at the target too, or slashing at about 10 degrees to the plane of the blade itself, not any angle. They also need to be moved a considerable distance, whereas a trigger finger only
has to twitch half an inch.
Hence the saying "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight."

Tueller Drill (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tueller+Drill%22&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8):
Two people, one armed with a holstered gun, the other a knife in hand, face each other at 7 yards.
On signal, knife attacks gun.
Better than 80% of the time, knife "kills" gun. In this drill, if gun shoots knife as knife "stabs" gun, gun loses. All ties are loses for gun.
Fat, old, drunk...don't matter. Almost anyone, regardless of physical condition, can cross 7 yards faster than even trained cops can draw and fire off one shot.
Times recorded for mock assailants to reach the defenders from the Tueller standard of 21 feet (7 yards) is sub two seconds, and this even held for a man with a cast on his leg (yea, that gives you 2 seconds to
draw from concealment and stop the attacker), or you can look to newer research conducted by law enforcement trainers that says maybe 21 feet is too short.
They state that physiologically, a human being can still have up to 14 seconds of movement after a perfectly placed heart shot before they would stop. 14 seconds equals up to 70 yards the person could cover after
being shot.
This is why cops are (supposed) to talk to suspects from distance, or with barriers (like cars) between them and potential assailants.
Get a copy of Cold Steels "More Proof" DVD's for graphic demonstrations of how destructive steel is to flesh, and how quickly it can do so.
How quickly can you pump your arm 12"? (No jokes, either! ;) :p)
I can do it at least three times a second for a few seconds.
I could swiss-cheese your neck in the blink of an eye. :)

Yes but that involves the person with the weapon pulling the gun from concealment. If I were a cop I wouldn't enter a hostile area with my gun in it's holster, it would be drawn, and pointing at where I would
expect trouble to be comming from, then of course I have my knife proof vest and 10 other swat buddies with riot shields and shotguns to back me up. Attaching with a knife isn't feasible in this sort of situation,
you will die if you try it, that simple. It would be very different if the group was unarmed however, although if you pull a knife in say, a plane, nowdays you will be swarmed by a no-holds-barred cabin full of people
that know that the only chance they have is if they kill you no matter what. Times have changed, after a lot of manical school killings people simply don't expect to survive in 'terrorist' situations, and will therefore
attack you without fear, and there is nothing more dangerous than a person who isn't affraid of death in a conflict.
Sparky January 18th, 2004, 11:55 AM

I'm fairly sure people who go on such rampages never intend to live through it, and they certainly don't expect to be able to kill cops. That Tueller drill is very interesting, and shows just how close is "close". But,
even though gun "loses" since a tie makes him lose, he probably usually gets one shot off, right? And just like the knifer will not stop when shot, gun can respond once stabbed and is much more able to than
someone who has been shot. Also, does gun have to stay still? From martial arts, there is a series of kicks which are used in just this sort of situation - someone is coming at you and is not going to be able to stop
in time (called step back kicks in Karate but I'm sure they exist in other martial arts). Could be crudely described as someone running into your foot. IMO they are simple, fast and just what the doctor ordered in
this situation. Surely cops have similar techniques. Basically what I'm saying is that a normal cop is not a dolt (or at least cannot be counted on to be one), and they can do more than one thing at once.
The point is the soft, fleshy populace of the school (without even knives) is a relatively easy target and one would have lots of time with them before the police arrived. That being said I also think a knive might be
rather uneffective. You're bound to get some football (or rugby ;)) guy tackling the knife wielder. Shit, anyone wearing winter gloves could probably grab the knife (and otherwise the hand holding the knife) and
make life hard for the attacker. Especially if the knife is in the usual blunt state people keep their knives in, it would be grabbable. I wouldn't be surprised if someone picked up a chair (or maybe desk) and smacked
the knifer around with it.
If the attacker has training in knife fighting, then that's a different matter. But that's not very likely. It's far more likely that students in the school will be trained in martial arts. Either generally or even have more
advanced training to specifically disarm a knife wielding attacker. That or just be freaking built like some people in my school. Obviously the knifer would be vastly outnumbered. Gunners rely on people being afraid
enough to not rush them, and there is good reason to be afraid. But a knife just doesn't carry that fear with it because it's simply not as good.
Since we're not really allowed guns in Canada, knives are by far the preffered street weapon here. I'm not talking about hunting knives either, but some quite fancy looking things that are intended to kill effectively.
BTW I see some interesting responses to my rant, which I intend to respond to but have no time to do so right now.
Crow January 19th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Our school recently (this year) posted a police officer in our school. He is there the entire day, but there is still only one of him and this is the largest highschool in the state. Having a police officer around in a large
building doesnt really scare many people into order. He basically just breaks up fights, and looks pretty with his Elvis hair style and only responding to Officer. P Rod. I really don't see a way to stop kids from
wanting to harm others in a school setting. Kids get teased on and they want to fight back, and face it, nothing solves problems faster than a gun. This is why I hate children, even though technically I am one, I
still hate them.
crackedchemist January 19th, 2004, 08:49 PM

HaHa the high school around my town has an "officer" too. All his job is is to bust people for drugs at the middle school. Or at least thats what he did to me a couple times. He's suppossed to patrol the high schools
parking lot too. But its easier to steal stuff out of cars there then it is any where else in my town. It kinda sucks to have him there too because he doesnt need to follow the same rules as a reall cop so he can
pretty much do whatever he wants. Stupid cock nocker wanna be cop.....

My school also has a school police officer. I don't think they do much good though.
There was a school shooting in the US where the school cop was shot dead when he tried to stop it. One cop with a glock doesn't do too well against 2 students, one with a sawn off shotgun and one with an M-1
Carbine. He didn't even wound either of them.
CommonScientist January 19th, 2004, 11:25 PM

Lousy cops. There isnt a cop in our school, but there isnt a lot of fighting at all, there hasnt been any reports of someone bringing a gun to school for the years i have been in it. A kid in 5th grade brought in some
bags filled with gas and a weed eater engine. They found him and his lil weapons of arson, as he was going to attempt to burn down my school. How he got the gas to stay in the bags, I dunno but he is in the DH
now. Stuipid,imature kids. But hey, we were all one at some point right? How many of us read the anarchist crapbook when we were young? Honestly thats how I got started in pyrotechnics, but I never tryied
anything in it though. I used the faithful internet to correct my wrongness. Lesson learned.

Knifes are psychologically much more terrifying weapons than guns.
In the book "On Killing" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, he details how rare bayonet (knife) kills are in combat because of the inevitable fact that the person on the receiving end either flees or surrenders before they
can be skewered.
The thought of a steel blade sliding into your guts is much more terrifying and real than the abstract concept of a bullet doing the same thing.
Everyone has been cut, much fewer have been shot.
BTW, there's no such thing as a "knife-proof" vest. There are stab resistant vests, but those are mostly confined to prison guards, since they don't (usually) risk being shot by inmates. Street cops wear BULLET
resistant vests that are NOT resistant to knives, since they're much more concerned with being shot.
Any steep angled blade, like a stilleto or tanto, will penetrate a ballistic vest if stabbed hard enough, unless it hits a hardplate insert (rare). Arrows, icepicks, and shivs will easily slide through the vest fibers and
into the body behind it.
Shit, anyone wearing winter gloves could probably grab the knife (and otherwise the hand holding the knife) and make life hard for the attacker.
Again, the Cold Steel DVD graphically demonstrates the stupidity of trying this with a decent knife. Leather and kevlar gloves filled with pork rib "fingers" are cut clean off the broomstick "hand" with a single
whack. Grabbing the blade means getting your fingers cut to the bone, cutting the ligaments that hold the hand shut in the process, thus releasing the gripl
People underestimate blades nowadays because of guns. Remember, blades have killed as many people as guns have throughout human history, and much more painfully.
As to the likelyhood of some jock trying something heroic against a knife...let's just say jocks aren't known for their intelligence. ;)
Jock makes his move, gets blade buried in belly, jock screams like little bitch and curls up in a fetal ball on the ground while trying to hold his intestines in his gutted belly...think anyone else is going to try? No
matter how buff you are, or how big a "six pack" stomach you have, steel slices and dices too quickly and easily for flesh to stand against.
As for "martial arts" amoung the students...HAHAHAHAHAAA!....that that's a non-issue too.
How many of these "karate kids" have learned an actual MARTIAL ART?
"Martial Arts" is the study of the skills of WARRIORS, of WAR and KILLING.
The shit they teach kids in the McDojo down at the local mall is NOT a MARTIAL ART! It's an hour of babysitting to keep the brats out of the parents hair while hopefully instilling some respect for authority in the
little shits.
If the kid was being taught Martial Arts like the children of samurai warriors were taught Martial Arts, then you'd have something to worry about.
But the McDojo punk will go for some fancy windmill kick that ends with his kick being cut short by a blade in the scrotum or a cut down to the femur bone, like slicing the christmas ham, from the kid who spent an
hour reading "Kill or Get Killed" off of the Marines website or some other H2H manual readily available on the web.
A couple hours practice with a knife will make a person armed with a knife more lethal than a person with several years of MA training, simply because a blade is much more destructive to flesh than even the
hardest kick. A light touch with a blade can sever tendons and cripple a limb.
Even trained MA professionals routinely get "cut" (by chalk knives) in demonstrations against people picked out of the crowd at MA demonstrations.
What hope does some McDojo brat stand against someone armed with REAL steel and a REAL intent to kill? None.
Also, the knife can be taped into the hand and the arm greased to make disarming attempts not only impossible, but suicidal. Even with a broken arm, the attacker can still kill, because he CAN'T let go of the
weapon, regardless of the pain or damage inflicted to the weapon arm.
And if you think taping and greasing improbable...Google. It's common practice amoung prisoners and gang-bangers. Any half-assed research by a future killer would pull up more than enough information for him to
constitute a lethal threat to anyone not armed and TRAINED in the use of a firearm.

Like everything all weapons, the damage that a knife can do is limited by the skill of the user. A drunk man with a knife is going to be easier to disable then a fully alert man.
There are specific techniques for use against people with knives. Ju Jitsu and Taek wan do are just a few of the martial arts that teach these techniques.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > First use of land m i n e s ?
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This article (http://m aic.jm u.e du/journal/6.1/notes/robbins/robb ins.htm ) struck m e as interesting. One thing I'm wondering
about is the claim that the US civil war was the first use of land mines. I seem to recall earlier Euro p e a n u s e s , g o i n g b a c k t o
t h e 1 6 0 0 ' s . C o u l d a n y o n e e l s e c o m e u p with a reference to an earlier use?
krimmie January 17th , 2004, 08:09 AM

"One thing I'm wondering abo ut is the claim that the US civil war was the first use of land m i n e s "
I believe they were referring to contact m ines....read on .
http://m e m bers.iinet.net.au/~pictim /m ines/history/history.html

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Magic Lantern
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wrench352 January 16th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 3 7 P M

I could have put this post in several th reads but I felt it deserved a thread unto itself. After speaking with several forum
m e m b e r s a b o u t M a g i c L a n t e r n o n t h e I R C , I f o u n d o u t n o t m any forumites were aware of it. There is a goo d reason for this as
its classified and secret. Not m uch is known about Magic Lantern, how it works or its origins. This m uch is known, it exists, and
it is a keylog ger trojan designed to steal passwords/pass phrases thereby rendering encryption useless. It is possible it is
either inserted via em ail or physically uploaded at the target computer. The end user has 90 days to collect data.
I t c a n b e a s s u m e d a l l d o m estically (US) m ade antivirus software and potentially anti-spyware have been compromised.
Acco rding to zdnet:
So far, Syma ntec and Network Associates have said their software will not detect the presence of th is FBI Trojan horse. It
should be noted that antivirus products already exclude some files from their scans, though none are as powerful as Magic
Lantern. No antivirus software vendors outside the U .S have weighed in o n this matter yet.
Only the European com pany Sophos has said they dont intend to exclude Magic Lantern. Other products of interest to us are
Kaspersky and Panda Software. The latter of which curio usly has an international and US edition. There is a l s o a n o p e n s o u r c e
AV project which would seem best,however its still in its infancy a n d n e e d s f u r t h e r d e v e l o p e m ent.
http://www.openantivirus.org/projects.php
Further com plicating things is the fact that the trojan is classified and publicized u se is far and in between. The only publicized
use I've seen has been the Little Nicky Scarfo case. I believe the trojan would have to be caught and quara ntined in order for
virus definitions to be m ade. If it was possible to catch the trojan,instead of curing the problem , it would be m ore profitable to
alter it to work for its new m aster. Antivirus programs made outside the United States with advanced hueristics seem t o b e t h e
answer.
T h e r e a r e a l s o a m ultitude of anti spyware program s available including anti-keyloggers. From initial research each are hit or
m iss and to be effective against current keyloggers,several would have to be run concurrently. So m any are available and their
use against this particular trojan questionable that I wont waste the space to nam e them specifically.
I t h a s b e e n b r o u g h t t o m y attention that this:
http://www.kanguru.com /encryptor.htm l
This would prevent the trojan being physically uploaded even at boot. I am unfam iliar with the technology however and am not
sure weather it would be effective against downloaded variations, attache d to say email or in our case a tasty file on a P2P.
O n a n e n d n o t e I h a v e t r i e d s e v e r a l v e r s i o n s o f S o p h o s A V , I g o t off em ule. Each crashed my system and I was lucky to
unin stall it.
Y o u r T h o u g h t s , C o m m e n t s a n d Suggestions are more than welcom e . T h a n k y o u .
infernal January 24th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 3 6 P M

a better bet would be to take this topic to the newsgroups or possibly a forum with a larger com puter tech orientation. I dont
think you will find your answer with chem ists, but I have been wrong befo re...
wrench352 January 25th , 2004, 01:21 AM

I g u e s s y o u m ight ha v e s o m e thing there,infernal. Howe ver I wasnt truly hoping for a solution,more I wanted to raise some
awareness of this problem and pool our collective knowlege. In talking about this subject with fellow Forum ites,I was shocked
they had'nt even heard of it.Since writing this thread Ive installed Iopus on my co mputer(with keylogger and screenshots off)its
completely undetectable and runs in the background logging everything that happens on your pc. Ive also installed Spybot
search and d estroy which work s great but is dependent on definitions. I've also in stalled P anda Titanium Antivirus m a d e i n
S p a i n I I R C a nd works great,I like this program more than Norton. Also ZoneAlarm firewall even though I dont need it,now all
program s ask before receiving internet access. Other program s worth me ntioning Winpatrol alerts you to new program
installations and will even uninstall the m for you,and runner up in m onitoring was W inwhatwhere,which is good but is not as
stea lthy as Iopus. Neither Spybot nor Spycop could detect Iopus.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C onverting .m ov to any other
form at
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View Full Version : Converting .mov to any other format
blindreeper January 17th , 2004, 06:40 AM

I h a v e a m ovie of 1250g of PNNM that a blaster gave to m e a n d a f r i e n d s n a m e i s m entioned in it and I wish to cut it out.
There is also 45 seconds of waiting for it to go off and it is 7.5MB. So I wish to ed it it and m a k e i t s m aller ect. I tried WinMPG
Vide o Converter to co nvert it from a .m ov to .avi so I could use virtualdub but the quality dramaticly decrea sed. I have tried to
find other programs but no su ccess. Does anyo ne know of a way to convert without a loss of quality, I preferably want it in m p g
or wm v, either that or a quicktim e editor?
Rhadon January 17th , 2004, 10:09 AM

The decrease in quality is rather because of wrong conversion settings than because of the wrong program IMO . I don't know
what kind of AVI codec you used, but I can suggest DIVX. Play a round with resolution and bitrate to see how it effects the
resu lts. For editing out the nam e of yo ur friend I would use Adobe Prem iere, but there m a y a l s o b e s i m pler applications which
can do the job.
blindreeper January 17th , 2004, 10:12 AM

It is all good now, Vulture helped me with adob e, I got it down to a 1.27MB wmv file which I am uploading now to post it in the
old PNNM detonation test thread.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Interesting Videos
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I found this exploding fireworks factory quite amazing, watch the whole the thing:
And if all of you have already seen it which I highly doubt, accpet my appologies.
http://www.media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=fireworkfactory.wmv
Theres also this one of an ammonium perchlrorate plant in Nevada near Vegas:
http://www.exponent.com/multimedia/movies/hend_sm.mov Apparently it had the same force as 1.5 million pounds of TNT.
With the exploding fireworks factory, there is another video out there somewhere, but the guy captured it from accross the street. I wouldnt mind getting closer to the action.
Any other videos relating to this, please post:D
Arkangel January 17th, 2004, 01:49 PM

I wouldnt mind getting closer to the action
Fuckin hell mate...CLOSER?:eek:
I don't think you could be much closer and live - that was a BIG explosion.
I get the impression that there were 2 different cameras in the fireworks clip. The 2 big explosions might just be one, from different angles. The slo-mo one is amazing - you
can see the shockwave kicking dust up from rooftops as it heads toward the cameraman
The AP plant is cool as well.+/-9 secs to hear it, they were what, 3.5k away?

Well I remember seeing it on a show called Max-X, the video above was from the same camera man and angle. There were two different explosions when I saw the video on
the Max-X show, the last one wiped out the camera. The same with this one too I guess
Anyways, if anyone see's any other interesting videos post them here...
EP January 17th, 2004, 02:14 PM

The camera man (maybe there were two in that clip and the second half is from somebody else) was killed if I remember correctly. You would NOT want to be any closer to
that...
Luckily nobody was hurt in the AP plant accident and the footage is amazing.

The first footage was shot in May 2000, Enschede, The Netherlands. About 20 people were killed, mostly by blast pressure and flying debris. About 400 homes were
inhabitable.
The plant had about 150tons of fireworks in stock, some estimates say there was up to 1000kg of flashpowder packed loosely into big sacks of 50kg and several hundred
kilograms of blackpowder lying around.
The fireworks were being stored in normal sea containers, no special safety precautions...
EDIT: The commentary on the slow motion says that the blast wave rips the roofs off the houses, it's not just dust.
Apparently it had the same force as 1.5 million pounds of TNT.
1,5 megapounds?? That's a tactical nuke!
BTW, what served as the fuel? NH4ClO4 needs a fuel to continue to burn.

Can't NHClO4 detonate? There was a lot of burning before the two large explosions, perhaps the temperature and pressure got enough to cause a detonation. The Aerotech
rocketry factory in Navada blew up a while ago, and the main oxidiser in Ammonium Perchlorate, so I don't know if this video is actually their plant. If it is however there would
be an ample supply of 600+mesh Al powder and 1000 mesh Mg powder, as well as burn rate catalysts and flamable polymer fuel around the place that would burn very fiercly.

Ah, I remember the fireworks factory fire, the Netherlands didn't give their vote on the Eurovision that year because of it.
I wonder how many innocent people the pyrotechnics and HE industry has killed in accidents and how many we have? And who is leagally allowed to continue to manufacture?
hmmm...

in that first video is that narrator speaking dutch?

You are a retard....
Earlier this thread.
--------------------------------
The first footage was shot in May 2000, Enschede, The Netherlands. About 20 people were killed, mostly by blast pressure and flying debris. About 400 homes were
inhabitable.
--------------------------------
One would think that this would answer your question quite nicely, more so than you stupid fucking one line answer demanding post with no capitol letters.

Yes, he's speaking dutch. FYI, that's an official language, not some redneck dialect from down south...:rolleyes:
I've been searching a bit on that AP plant blast.
Apparently, AP was being stored in aluminium barrels normally, but they ran out. So they used polyethylene barrels, which ignited at 150C. Some welding sparks found their
way to one (WTF is going to weld near AP barrels????) and it ignited. The heat caused the confined Al barrels to explode, cracking a 300psi natural gas line beneath the factory
(WTF runs a natural gas line beneath an AP factory??) and the rest is history...
That's why the last part of the video has a comparison between "gas" and "no gas".
warren January 18th, 2004, 04:13 PM

What the hell? Was there a fire before or did they all of a sudden just go off? Because how would those cameras get there?
hodio January 18th, 2004, 08:45 PM

i have seen the fireworks factory video and I think how is possible to store that quantity of fireworks and explosive just so close to houses..dont have they some kind of
protections to avoid that mega explosion?
atlas#11 January 19th, 2004, 05:43 PM

Haha, i lived withen like 30 miles of that perchlorate factory when it blew. That was a while ago, my dad was running construction equipment out closer when it blew and he
saw the shockwave roaring across the desert from where he was. As for the fire works factory, sweet. That was a nice blast, but nothing compared to the perchlorate plant.

Both explosions would have been more spectacular at night. But seriously those explosions really do demonstrate how powerful explosives can be even id the are only low
order comps like BP and flash powder. As much as the videos looked cool I really wouldn't want to be either camera man, because the plave would be like a warzone, with
explosion going off and shrapnel/debris flying.
BTW: can someone who speaks dutch post a translation of the commentry said on the firework video?
$0meb0dy January 20th, 2004, 09:33 AM

He says:
Your seeing the motion pictures now in slow motion, you see the real power of the explosion very clear, the roofs are letterly blown of the houses.
After that explosion in Enschede the firework rules and things related to that are more strickt :( .
Sorry for my possible bad Englisch.
Nitro Tola January 20th, 2004, 10:51 PM

That was huge, i am humbled by the power of those explosions, beats my backyard blitzing!
ossassin January 27th, 2004, 10:03 AM

Oh yeah. We talk strangely, just like you wear wooden shoes, vulture. Nice videos, guys. :)
SpiffyVision January 27th, 2004, 10:17 AM

Got this from the APC forum:
This site has the exploding fireworks factory on video shot from the street:
http://www.jurrion.nl/
It's under movies > explosions its parts one and two, I do like the roof one better though.

We talk strangely, just like you wear wooden shoes, vulture.
ROFLMAO! You don't actually believe that, do you? The farmers wearing wooden shoes is a rare thing, only seen at places were lots of american and japanese tourists frequent.

After the Enschede incident, fireworks got more difficult EVERYWHERE as the UN conventions on 1.3G fireworks were altered due to this incident. In the US, any shell larger
than 8" dia. is now classed as 1.1 (high explosives, no longer low ex.) for purposes of transportation due to the damned fools blaming the class and size of the devices stored
at Enschede rather than the INSANE location for such ammounts to be stored. WTF were they thinking to allow an explosives storage facility of ANY kind in such a built up area?
Anyway, due to this, we will now have a hellacious time importing large aerial shells as only 2 ports in the entire USA will accept a cargo container marked as high explosives.
Not to mention the jolly fun of now driving around a truck labeled as containing HE when trying to do fireworks shows- It really just makes the local police and fire departments
SO thrilled and happy when you show up with 1.1 placards for their fireworks show.

Black Powder is a low explosive.
I would be much more cautious If I was dealing with a container full of low explosives myself as they are often less sensitive and less stable.
Given the choice what you you rather transport: a ton of C4 explosive or a ton of Black Powder?
As for the Enschede accident. It was waiting to happen. Anyone that has a fully operational fireworks factory in a high density residental area is an idiot.

Given the choice what you you rather transport: a ton of C4 explosive or a ton of Black Powder? I'd rather transport the C-4, assuming no caps in the shipment.
The explosion at Enschede was not a factory. It was a distributor of imported fireworks.
mixojoe January 28th, 2004, 07:49 AM

how about this exploding sheep video?
http://www.sickindividual.com/downloads/ILoveEwe.WMV
it amazed me

That video could almost be classified as a funny.
However since your not a Kiwi you can't post stuff like that. I suggest Mixojoe you re-think what your going to post before you post it. Otherwise you are just going to be
another lameass on the very long list of banned users the m[g]ods have.

I was wondering about those velcro gloves in that New Zealand farm equipment catalogue I saw...

That was the stupidest video ive ever seen in my life.
~Phelixx~ November 3rd, 2004, 05:55 PM

Today, a large fireworks factory exploded in Kolding, Denmark. News claims that app. 2000 metric tonnes (yes, 2 mill. kilos) of fireworks exploded. The fire started around
2pm today, and is still on fire (10:45 pm). At 6 pm, a very large explosion occured, that was heard more than 20 km from the scene, which I have on tape.
It is pretty bad quality, since I captured it from my TV with my digital camera, but I am willing to upload it somewhere, if people are interested... Meanwhile some pictures can
be found here:
http://i2.tv2.dk/gallery/gallery.php?id=1528475&site=nyhederne.tv2.dk&skin=nyhederne&index=0
http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/article.jhtml?articleID=210861#features (by clicking next to the "video" a news report can be shown, although I can't get it to work right
now...)
http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=343514
http://ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.sasp?PageID=268825&Nr=1
http://www.bt.dk/ (click where it says "billedserie")
(edit: by the way, it seems that the big shutdown has mysteriously eaten some of my posts... Well, thats life)
Gamekeeper November 13th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Explosions at a US weapon storage site in Iraq:
http://gamekeeper.deds.nl/movies/karkuk.wmv

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > petn by H2SO 4 + AN
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nuclearattack January 17th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 5 3 P M

hi
i'm m aking a search to get so me pentaerythritol...yes i want to m a k e s o m e p e t n !
however i don't have hno3 so i'm interested to make petn using h2so4 with a nitrate, for exam p l e a m m onium nitrate.
i searched a lot about petn synthesis but nobody talked about this procedure.
has anyone tried this procedure?
what about the ratios and the particula rs to observe in this procedure?
i think lot of people is interested about this.
thanks for your help
NightStalker January 18th , 2004, 12:26 AM

I think NBK would bite your he ad off and spit it out for asking a question like this, watercooler or not. ;)

-No capitols
-Lack of searching (well I can assum e )
You can't even claim that your shift Key dosn't work as to m a k e t h e s y m bol ! you would have to hold shift while simultaneously
p u s h i n g t h e k e y 1 , w h i c h s e e m s s t r a n g e t o m e a s s u c h c o m plex tasks as pushing two buttons at o nce would surely be beyond
a person who can't start a sen tance with a capitol.
As for the m oronic qu estion, I am not very knowledgable n the HE field, but I assum e it would be akin to asking if you could
m ake RDX with HCl and xNO3, that is if you have not fo und anything after searching there is probably a good reaso n. Even if
you could you are dem anding answers off people which never goes down well:
"has anyone tried this procedure?
what about the ratios and the particula rs to observe in this procedure?"
You could ha ve at least asked if this was feasible and if so request a link that you could learn from , in proper English, and
people would probably help you, now you have no chance.

Sorry Blackhawk for the capitols.
About this procedure i searched a lot a n d i f o u n d a s m a ll web page where is written that is possible to m ake petn with the
h 2 s o 4 / k n o 3 m ethod. The problem is that there isn't explained the full procedure, they don't say anything about it!
A s y o u s e e s o m e o n e e l s e i s i n t e r e s t e d a b o u t t h i s m ethod, to prove that, here you are a text taken from that webpage! Read
that please! My question is not stupid, i have n ever made petn and i'm tring to acquire a lot of info before make it!
This is the text copied from the web:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PETN
Note: this pa ge isn't complete , i have m ore to add & up load - but i don't know wh en i'll do it.... i'm very lazy this sum m e r .
sorry guys.
PETN is a very brisant high explosive. It's m y personal favourite: relatively easy to prepare, very high detonation ve locity, not
toxic and easy to initiate.
To produce PETN you need white nitric acid (HNO3 m in 95% without nitric oxides) and pentaerythritol. Use a b o u t s i x t i m e s m o r e
HNO 3 than pentaerythrite. (100g pentaerythrite, 400ml/600g HNO3)
It's also possible to use the H2SO4/KNO3 method, althoug NAOUM states that the product form ed by nitration of
pentaerythritol with "mixed acids" is "a tough product difficult to purify and of low stability". The NAO UM book is from 1 9 2 8 , t h e
US patent 1,660,651 is from 1928, too. I observed no difficulties in purifying the product, but i can 't say an ything about the
stab ility except my PETN didn't decom p o s e / a c c i d e n t a l d e t o n a t e d etc.
Further investigation should be done.......
-->
NAOU M & S T E T T B A C H E R b o t h s u g g e s t t o a d d a n e q u a l v o l u m e of H2SO4 to to precipate the PETN from the HNO3. URBANSKI
( 1 9 6 3 ) s t a t e s t h a t i s n o t g o o d t o d o s o b e c a u s e i m purities are also precipated. If that is the only reason (seems so...) it
shouldn't be the biggest problem to produce PETN with any method using H2SO4. Fine.
The only problem is the yield. Nitration of pentaerythrite with white nitric acid will give an almost theoretical yield:
1 mole pentaerythrite = 136,15g
1 mole PETN = 316,14g
316,14/136,15 = 2,32 - so 10 0g pentaerythrite will give about 232g PETN.
W ith the KNO 3/H2SO4 method i had the following (docu m e n t e d ) y i e l d s :
nitration of 5 g pentaerythrite ---> 6,5g PETN = 56,03% yield of 11,6g theoretical (first time, docum ented in the foru m )
nitration of 2 5g pentaerythrite ---> 47,5g PETN = 81,89% yield of 58g theoretical
nitration of 2 5g pentaerythrite ---> 42,2g PETN = 72,75% yield of 58g theoretical
nitration of 5 0g pentaerythrite ---> 75g PETN = 64,65% yield of 116g theoretical (only 45 m inutes nitration)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
W ell, it seem s that som eone else tried this me thod!

Now what i need is on ly the full procedure with ratios and the PE, of course!
Another thing: why NBK would bite m y head? I posted in the righ t section following the rules, so anybody bites anybody! I read
worse post on water cooler and they aren't about explosives!
I think this is not a good attitude!
Anthony January 18th , 2004, 06:48 AM

It is possible to use H2SO4 and a nitrate to m ake PETN, in fact it's quite easy.
Search for our m oderator Mr C ool, in his profile is a link to his hom epage, there's a PETN synth like the one you are looking for
there.

Thats suprising, I tho ught that it required fum ing Nitric acid (at least from reading KIBC) which you would not get through the
H2SO 4/xNO 3 route, well you learn som ething n ew everyday don't you. The hardedt part would then be finding the
pentaerythritol and suitable quality sulfuric (at least for me).

Am I the only one who thinks the watercooler is becom i n g t h e " s p o o n f e e d - a n d - b e - n i c e - t o - t h e - k e w l s - s e c t i o n " ?
S o m ebody ban this ignorant fuck, watercooler or not.

I read worse post on water cooler... You m ust have searched well.
T h e W a t e r C o o l e r g i v e s y o u s o m e k i n d o f f r e e d o m . I t s p u r p o s e i s t o a l l o w newbies to ask their questions. Since it takes

significantly m ore tim e for oth e r m e m bers to write a post than for you to do a search, we assume that you search before you
ask. And the least thing you can do is to type up your p ost properly.
I already warned you twice. Do som eth ing stupid and you will get banned , be it outside the Water Cooler or not.

I won't bother replying to your lame flame m ail.
I h o p e y o u l i k e g a y p orn....

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > diphe/nile thane di/isociana to
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nuclearattack January 17th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 0 2 P M

today i bought a spra y can of poliuretanic foam , on the can is written "diphe/nilethane di/isocianato keep a way from fire and
heat".
this stuff burns easy and i'm thinking about a possible use of it.
i thought about using it as a binder for plastic explosives or som ewhat sim ilar.
i don't know this molecula but i'm goin g to nitrate it with the classic h2so4 kno3 m ethod...if it works i think should b e funny!
Dave Angel January 17th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 5 1 P M

Diphenylm e t h a n e - 4 , 4 ' - d i i s o c y a n a t e ?
That's what I found that in som e e x p a n d i n g f o a m during m y survey of B&Q, here's a webpage:
http://cpf.jrc.it/sm t/m o n o m e r s / p m 1 6 6 3 0 . h t m
W ell there's phenyl rings there, but I'm not sure how those cyanate groups will affect / be affected by nitration, give it a go, I
m ight do some reading on it.
[Edit] be careful with this stuff though... it could produce som e d eadly ga ses. Ano ther isocyanate, m ethyl isocyanate, has a
detectable odor 3 tim e s t h e p e r m i s s i b l e e x p o s u r e l i m it. I'd watch my step around related chem icals.
[Edit again] hm m m m ethyl isocyanate LC50 is 22ppm a n d p h e n y l i s o c y a n a t e . . . 1 6 p p m
for contrast:
acrolein - 25ppm
HCN - 40ppm
phosgene - 5ppm
Don't go killing yourself!
NightStalker January 18th , 2004, 12:39 AM

I see an accidential suicide in his future...:rolleyes:

S o m ebody ban this idiot. He's got no clue what he's talking about.

A s l o n g a s h e k e e p s h i s s t u p i d i t i e s i n t h e W ate r C o o l e r h e ' s s a f e . U n l e s s h e g o e s t o o f a r . . .
Dave Angel January 19th , 2004, 02:49 AM

W ell I've done som e more reading on the compound and despite the unwise hastyness of suggesting the nitration without
rese arch, I'm pleased that nuclearattack brought this up.
Firstly I found it's precursor, diphenylm ethane, is prepared via a Friedel-Crafts alkylation using benzyl chloride and benzene.
The best yields are about 50% because the product is activated towards further substitution. This made m e think th at our
foam product could be nitrated fairly easily, so long as the isocyanate groups do not pose a problem.
I then went on to look for ways to remove the isocyanate groups so that we would have diphenylmethane to nitrate but cam e
across two m uch more interesting reactions.
The first is hydrolysis of the isocyanate groups to carbam ic acid groups which then lose CO 2 to give amine (-NH2) groups.
Those who know their chemistry will realise that NH2 gro u p s o n b e n z e n e r i n g s a r e e v e n m ore activating than the hydroxyl
groups we have to thank for m aking the TNP synthesis such an easy nitration. O nce hydro lysis has been ca rried out, one could
then nitrate the diphenylm e t h a n e - 4 , 4 ' - d i a m ine , (possibly in a similar m anner to the TNP synthesis from ASA). The product
m ay have use as an explosive if it can be heavily nitrated enough (note: the para position is unavailable), or a fuel, a
sensitizer for AN, a component in propellant or explosive compostions? It will need some experim enting.
T h e s e c o n d i s p o l y m erization under alcoholic conditions. This is done comm ercially to give urethanes, hence this particular
p r o d u c t b e i n g u s e d a s a n e x p a n d i n g f o a m (don't ask m e how they get it to react when you squirt it out though... some kind of
o x i d ation m aybe?). Industry uses a diol or a partially polym e r i z e d e p o x i d e t o r e a ct with the isocyanate groups. W e would
probably use the diol; ethylen e glycol (good old antifreeze). After polym erization the term i n a l i s o c y a n a t e g r o u p s a r e l i n k e d
u s i n g a d i a m ine. Instead, I would probably hydrolyse the end groups using the first process I described, as diamines aren't
exactly readily available comp ared to water. This polymeric product could also be nitrated with the aim of producing an
energetic bin der for P BX.
I apologise for not being able to provide diagrams at this stage, I've just finished doing this reading. As I look further into it,
(and buy some foam before it gets banned by the EU), I will dra w u p s o m e d i a g r a m s and put them on the web to m a k e t h i n g s
clearer.
My first post was the standard reaction I have when I see strong acids being com bined with anything with 'cyano' or 'cyanate'
etc in it. Not particularly scientific thinking I know, but it pays to be a little over-ca utious. When you are still alive you can say,
"What was I thinking? O f couse A isn't going to react with B and kill m e!"
[Edit] Spelling
[Edit again] I've drawn up the mechanism for the hydrolysis, you can view it at:
http://uk.geocities.co m / n e k r o m a n c e r l a b s / i n d e x . h t m
Like I was saying, the para position (opposite the NH2 group) is occupied by the m ethyl link to the other phenyl ring so I
believe it would only be nitrated at the ortho positions, tetra nitration giving it an OB of around -97,
OB's for comparison:
TNT -74
DNT -114
Dave Angel January 21st, 2004, 09:56 PM

I b o u g h t s o m e of this m yself and tried a few experim ents with it.
First off it's very messy, it sticks all over the place, but acetone does a good job dissolving it. A concentrated solution of it in
acetone is re ddish colour.
I tried an acid and base catalysed hydrolysis by adding the solution to aqueous HCl and NaOH with little success as the foam
comes out of solution on contact with water. I m ight risk m e s s i n g u p s o m e of my decent glassware a n d r e f l u x s o m e with the
hydrolysis reactants to see if I can get something happening. There was quite a lot of bubbling with the HCl solution
(decarboxyla tion?) so it looks prom ising.
Another reaction one can do with Ar-NH2's is producing a diazonium s a l t u s i n g H C l a n d s o d i u m nitrite at low temperature:
Ar-N-triple bond-N+ C l-
This can then be reacted with phenol (and I hope salicylic acid) in a diazonium coupling re action and we would end up with a
strin g of 4 phenyl rings, the centre pair connected by the -CH2- and the outer couplings being -N=N- . The two end phenyl rings
would have -O H groups para to their N=N connections. An octanitration of this product give s a com p o u n d w i t h a n o x y g e n
bala nce of -79 so the possibility exists that it could have explosive properties.
I s h o u l d t h i n k a n y t h i n g m a d e u s i n g t h i s f o a m s t u f f i s g o i n g t o b e a curio sity only, for those who enjoy the chemistry (and
there's plenty involved) and m aking it for the sake of m aking it, as it is m uch easier to m a k e d o z e n s o f o t h e r e x p l o s i v e s t h a n
work with this IMO . I hope it g ets less sticky if and when I can hydrolyse it.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Rogue Science
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atr January 17th, 2004, 08:23 PM

By M. Gregg Bloche
M. Gregg Bloche is a professor of law at Georgetown University, an adjunct professor at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health, and a member of the
Committee on Scientific Freedo
WASHINGTON Six hundred years ago, invading Tatars intent on controlling Silk Road trade attacked the Black Sea port of Kaffa in unconventional fashion: They
catapulted dead human bodies, victims of bubonic plague, over the town's walls. Residents of Kaffa came down with the disease. Several townspeople fled by sea,
and the Mediterranean cities that accepted them suffered devastating plague outbreaks. Some speculate that the Black Death, which killed nearly one-third of Europe's
population, was the product of these outbreaks and, perhaps, a product of the Tatars' biological attack.
At least since Roman times, invading armies have launched dead animals over city walls or dumped them into water supplies to spread disease. Medieval warlords lofted
anthrax-infected beasts into the town of Les Baux-de-Provence, in France's Rhone Valley wine country. In 1763, a British army captain, Sir Jeffrey Amherst, approved of the
idea of using smallpox-infected blankets to "reduce" the numbers of American Indians. Long before naturalists came up with the idea that germs cause disease, people figured
out how to spread illnesses intentionally, with devastating effect.
History indicates that researchers are seldom reluctant to use what they know to make warfare more lethal. Yet, one of Saddam Hussein's leading scientists claimed a week
ago that he came up with a way to transform liquid anthrax into a more potent and durable powder but didn't try it. "I kept the method secret," Nissar Hindawi told the New
York Times. "History would have cursed me." Hindawi, who admits lying to U.N. inspectors to cover up his bioweapons work, says his decision prevented Iraq from producing
powdered anthrax, the form used to spread terror through the U.S. mail a year and a half ago. But skeptical U.N. experts say other Iraqi scientists knew how to do so, and that
Iraq imported ovens to dry liquefied anthrax spores.
We may soon know more. The arrests of several of Hussein's scientists and the manhunt for more could resolve long-standing controversies over Iraq's rogue-weapons
capabilities. These arrests also raise the question of researchers' culpability for the destructive forces science can create.
No scientist has ever been convicted of a war crime because his or her research made possible the production of a terrible weapon. Concerns about scientific freedom have
stood in the way. Since the Nazi war crimes trials, it has been unlawful to knowingly collude in the production of weapons for forbidden use. German industrialists with technical
training were tried and convicted for manufacturing Zyklon B, the gas that killed millions in Adolf Hitler's death camps. But the research that created Zyklon B did not lead to
criminal convictions.
Nazi doctors who experimented with lethal agents and techniques faced judgment at Nuremberg for their treatment of the people they used as guinea pigs. Yet, neither
transnational law nor the ethics that govern science speaks to the question of researchers' accountability for others' illicit uses of their work. The ongoing roundup of Hussein's
scientists presents an opportunity to create worldwide norms of legal and ethical responsibility. It is urgent that we do so. Science in rogue states poses unprecedented dangers,
and scientists, by saying "no," are in the best position to avert them.
For the research community, such accountability is an awkward matter. Scientists celebrate the freedom to pursue truth without regard for social consequences. In the
words of Robert Oppenheimer, the physicist who led America's crash program to build an atomic bomb: "If you are a scientist, you believe that it is good to find out
how the world works; that it is good to find out what the realities are, that it is good to turn over to mankind at large the greatest possible power to control the world
and to deal with it according to its lights and values." Oppenheimer justified his efforts on these grounds, figuring that political judgments about the bomb's use were
for others to make according to their "lights and values." When, in the 1950s, Albert Einstein and other scientists called for the abolition of atomic weapons, they
stopped short of urging a research ethic of restraint when science has potentially devastating applications.
We can no longer afford a scientific ethic that disregards the social consequences of research. Some of the consequences are just too scary. The Manhattan Project mobilized
people and resources on a massive scale in a constitutional democracy. Even amid wartime secrecy, accountability and restraint were built in. Scientists could be confident that
civilian leaders were attuned to democratic values (and electoral pressures) and would use destructive technologies accordingly.
Not only do rogue regimes utterly lack constitutional mechanisms of restraint; scientific means of mass slaughter can now be devised with modest resources behind the
proverbial garage door, out of reach of political accountability. They can be stored and moved stealthily, without international detection, as Hussein's regime has
shown. A f ew microbiologists who follow clandestine orders and defer to the "lights and values" of thugs who rule failed states take chances with millions of lives.
Bush administration officials concerned about rogue uses of science have focused on the fear that cutting-edge knowledge from U.S. labs could find its way to caves near
Kandahar or bunkers beneath Baghdad. Accordingly, they have tried to dam the flow of scientific information by making it harder for foreign graduate students to get visas,
asking scientific journal editors not to publish "sensitive" findings and barring foreign researchers from scientific meetings.
These intrusions on academic freedom make little sense. They target the intellectual exchange that has powered U.S. science to preeminence. Most of the graduate students in
physical-science disciplines that drive our high-tech economy come to America from abroad. Many stay. They take jobs in corporate and university labs, and they contribute to
our prosperity.
The real threats from rogue science are in technologies far from the cutting edge. Widely available materials and methods, the chemical or biological equivalent of crashing
jetliners into buildings, enable individuals with basic scientific training to concoct recipes for mass murder. The notion that tunnels and bunkers in failed states shelter world-class
science is the stuff of James Bond fantasy. Restrictions on international scientific exchange won't affect what happens in these tunnels and bunkers.
What will? Since we can't count on rogue despots' "lights and values," or on the ability of U.S. intelligence to monitor every hideaway, we should look for ways to persuade
potential rogue-science perpetrators to act responsibly. We can do this without constraining scientific freedom.
We should start by holding scientists criminally responsible for rogue recipes and for work done with intent to produce them. International law criminalizes conduct that
abets violation of the rules of war if the abettors act purposefully or knowingly. Extending this accountability to research that yields banned weapons would send a strong
message to the scientific community.
Criminal convictions of scientists on these grounds would be difficult to obtain, even when evidence proves that research resulted in banned weapons. Defendants can claim
that their purpose was to prepare countermeasures against illegal weapons, or that they didn't know their findings and methods would be misused.
But even if no scientists were convicted, much would be gained by accountability in principle. Researchers would be on notice that freedom of inquiry doesn't cover work meant
to create illicit destructive power. In time, this duty to desist could take root as an ethical norm. There is precedent for such progress. In 1947, the Nuremberg tribunal that
convicted Nazi doctors for their gruesome experiments held that research on people could not proceed without the subjects' informed consent. Until then, medical researchers
didn't typically treat consent as an ethical requirement. By the 1970s, informed consent had become ethically routine.
For scientists, saying "no" to rogue purposes needs to become a matter of moral urgency. Criminal accountability is a starting point, but the duty to desist must develop into a
shared professional commitment. No transnational legal regime can substitute for the spreading belief that, in Hindawi's words, "History would have cursed me."

ATR, where'd you find this article at? If so, where's the links or what book/magazine?
Or are you saying you're the one who wrote it?
Clarify, please.
As to "rogue science"...what a load of shit!
When jenner started vaccinating against smallpox, would he have to wonder if perhaps he shouldn't be doing it if it resulted in a global population of potential she...er...victims
that had no natural immunity to it and were thus become potential targets for a terrorist smallpox bioweapon further down the line?
How far back down the line do you go with this kind of thinking before someone is innocent, regardless of the outcome of their research being put to "evil" use?
Did the guys at Bell labs who invent the transistor enable the construction of "terror weapons" such as H-Bombs, because their invention allowed the construction of computers,
without which the needed math crunching to construct nuclear weapons would have been impossible?
What about the guy who discovered that you could vulcanize rubber with sulfur? That discovery enabled the construction of gasmasks which are needed to use "weapons of
mass destruction" like chemical and biological agents.
Even something more directly "rogue" like secquencing a disease organisms DNA can have helpful applications. If no-one does it because it MIGHT be used to improve its use
as a weapon, than the "evil" scientist who does do it for that express purpose will be far ahead of the "good" scientists who'll then have to play catch-up, resulting in more
dead people than if they had done the "evil" research themselves in the first place.
Natural facts, like the DNA sequence of smallpox for instance, are neither "good" or "evil", they just are. Remaining ignorant of them helps no-one and hurts everyone.
If people wish a return to the good ol' days of "safe" knowledge, then burn all the books, cut the internet off, and kill anyone who can read.
Return to an fuedal based agricultural society with a military monarchy supporting a theocratic intellectual elite, and enjoy the neo-dark age because that's what you'll have
when only the "right" people (meaning the elite) know how to read and can learn things besides that which are allowed for the "peasants" to know.
shrek January 18th, 2004, 01:04 AM

I did a quick search in google and came up with the article on the UCLA site:
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/roguescience.html
From there you can see the article is from the LA times, May 4, 2003.

WHile science is all about knowledge, it has nothing to do with what that knowledge could be used for. College students that study pharmacology do learn to effect of drug on
the body this knowlege is taught so that in generations to come more powerful drug capable of treating diseases are created. Conversely more designer drugs can be put on
the market, which in turn may result in thousands of minds being poisoned by the effects of them.
Science always has two directions a way to enhance life or a way to destroy life. It is simply the descion of the scientist what direction to take.

Yes I completely agree Flake2m, however I beleive that everyone (not just scientists) are involved in the struggle for knowledge, I hope you don't mind me expanding on your
point. Knowledge is both a gift and a curse, it is the weapon and the defense against the weapon at the same time, with everything depending on who discovers it first. For
instance smallpox, the study of the function and replication of the smallpox virus can branch into two different paths, one path is the weapon the other is the shield. One path
the smallpox is genetically customised, mass produced and used to fill warheads, the other it's effects on the human body are studied and a vaccine is produced to counteract
and nullify the virus. One path kills, the other saves, both paths are always taken, but rarely at the same time. The first 'side' to take the path of discovery has the upper hand.
In this way the search for knowledge is like a constant war that humans are forever engaged in and every person is a soldier in, those who don't learn loose. For those who
think that we shouldn't discover something because of its potential for harm, I say that humans INEVITABLY follow both paths of everything, not nesseccarily at the same time,
but you do not have the choice of ignoring one of the paths, so every bit of information you can learn you MUST learn because one day someone will attempt to use it against
you and you have to be ready.
streety January 18th, 2004, 10:04 AM

On a totally different point I suspect that unlike in the 'civilised' world a scientist would be able to say in a 'rogue' state that they won't do this piece of research because it
might cause harm. The result will probably be a bullet in the head as encouragement for your peers.

I wonder how many advancements of science this professor uses. This is a typical attitude for those arrogant law & economic fucks. They look down on the exact sciences.
Yet, they conveniently use poisons, lethal gasses and electricity to execute their convicted crims.
Fucking hypocrits.

They could very easily get by without the poison gas. They have perfected their technique for years. They could easily talk the criminal to death. All they ask for is chance!
disclaimer: this post is liable to contain sarcasm.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nano Thermites!
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scarletmanuka January 18th , 2004, 06:46 AM

I just came accross this site: http://www.technanogy.net/nanoaluminum_powders/index.htm which produces nano alum inium
powders which are so small that they d o not reflect light. Surely this would be a good alternative to german dark if one could
get their han ds on it. Infact, there are free sam ples in the ordering section. The only downside is the high oxy content.

Forg et nano thermites, nano flash powders. I would think though that som ething that fine m ay perhaps slo w the burnrate down
as the Al powder would be very dense and would not m ix well with chunky oxidisers. If you did get it to m ix though it would
p r o b a b l y s e p arate out with very little vibration/m ovem ent.
scarletmanuka January 18th , 2004, 07:57 AM

W ell then Blackhawk, check out the part of the site that deals with nano-oxidisers. I im a g i n e t h e C uO with 30m s q u a r e d o f
surface area per gram would probably be pretty impressive when m ixed with the Al.

Yes, I have sent off my carefully worded piece of social engineering artwork in the hopes of getting a small sample bag to test
it's usefulness. If you want to know what I said email m e , b u t I c a n s a y t h e r e a r e s o m e a d v a n t a g e s t o b e i n g a s e n i o u r s t u d e n t
doin g C h e m isty for his HSC, e specially the topic 'Industrial Chem istry' wh ich involves investigating industrial m anufacturing
processes. This of course will only get m e the 'Student scientific curiosity sam ple pack' the y would get suspicious if I tried to
buy a few Kg off them to 'Learn', so more work would have to be put in if it is feasible (cost effective). I would think if would be
quite expensive though, probably only useful for very specialised aplications or as a cool gim ic. (You call th a t d a r k A l , m i n e s s o
fine it dosn't refract b loody light!)

"Forget nano therm ites, nano flash powders. I would think though that som ething that fine may perhaps slow the burnrate
down as the Al powde r would be very dense and would not mix well with chunky oxidisers. If you did get it to mix though it
would probably separate out with very little vibration/m ovement."---Black hawk, Lab Assistant
Up to now everything Ive read says sm aller = faster burn, becau se smaller particals have m ore surface aria to react im edietaly
and they heat up faster. If m ixing is a problem m a k e a castable plaster insidiary CaSO4 + Al + H2O and bake untill the water
is gone. Now that Al and oxidiser are conected you can grind it into a fine powder or what ever.
Blackhawk January 18th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 1 4 P M

Sm aller burns faster to a point, fine granular BP will burn faster than well setled m eal powder as the surface area is much
greater (the m eal packs which stops flam e propagation to all surfaces), I'm affraid that th e s a m e m a y h a p p e n t o t h e n a n o - A l
unle s s i t w a s s u s p e n d e d i n a b i n d e r o r s o m e h o w m ade to coat o xidiser p articles.
scarletmanuka January 18th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 5 3 P M

I just got accepted to a Chem Eng/Analytical Chem d o u b l e d e g r e e , a n d m y b e s t f r i e n d g o t a c c e p t e d to Nanotech, I m ight just
have a chance at a free sample... Anyone got any ideas as what I would be using it for?
Crazy Swede January 19th , 2004, 11:24 AM

Blackhawk,
The finer the particle, the greater the intim acy between the reactants! W hy would that slow down a reaction? Everything m a d e
with nano-size m etal fuels will burn/explode ex tremely fast!
I believe nano Al powders still are too expensive to be considered as anything bu t a novelty.

Crazy Swede, I agree that would work to a point (unless the two powders had a large density differance) but unless you also
have nano oxidiser particles you would not get a very good mix I would think, it would act like water running through gravel
and the nano powder would quickly separate out in a dry mix.

High perform ance flash mixes use carefully chosen particle size and electrostatic propertie s t o k e e p a n o p t i m u m distribution
and geometry of oxidizer/fuel.
crackedchemist January 25th , 2004, 12:41 AM

W hat about an aditive to your normal m ix? As in you mix 50/50 alum inum / n a n o a n d t h e n a d d t h a t by weight to whatever mix
y o u h a v e . Y o u m ight get the benefits of both the sizes. Or is this extrem ely stupid of m e to think this?
atlas#11 February 6th, 2004, 02:27 PM

For m y flash I used to use sand paper and slowly grind the fibers out of ordinary printer paper and shake the flash in to it. It
m akes for great flame propogation but geting the flash to stick to the fibers was a bitch I got them d a m p i n a b a g g i e w i t h a
drop or two of water for about three da ys or so so it has adequeat tim e to evaporate and get evenly distributed. It would be
benificial to use finely ground nitro cellulose for an energetic "su spender". Any wa y, I would like to see the effect of this nano
powder.
Bert February 12th, 2004, 03:19 PM

This article m entions the experimental use of nano scale Al powders in prim ing m ixtures:
G r e e n e x p l o s i v e s : C o llateral damage (http://www.nature.com /cgi-taf/Dyn aPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v427/n6975/full/
427580a_fs.html)
It also ends with this quote:

W orking to d evelop n e w e x p l o s i v e s c a n b e d a n g e r o u s . " I f y o u m a k e o n e m istake it can be your last," says Klaptke. Three
years ago, one researcher in his lab lost the top halves of two fingers in an explosion. "But he is still working in the field," says
Klap t k e .
Labs such as his can ill afford to lose staff, due to problems with recruitm e n t . K l a p t k e a d m its that m ilitary links are off-putting
for many students. And the pool of recruits is n arrowed still furth er by his decision only to accept students from NATO countries
for security reasons. Klaptke understands why some young chem ists shy away from military research, but argues that his work
i s n e c e s s a r y . " W e n e e d d e f e n c e , s o w e h a v e t o train people," he says. "But we don't want to kill them a n d p o l l u t e t h e
environm ent."
S o u n d s l i k e s o m e of you all should be able to find work in the field, eh?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Home made nuclear device
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Mendeleev January 18th, 2004, 06:56 PM

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1111/n1782_v297/21281407/p1/article.jhtml?term=
:eek:
This guy is my hero. Anybody want to try this?

I heard something about that a while ago. I would definatly try it if I had the elements and a friend to keep me in check. I
would try my best to prevent a contamination though. It would be nice to rely on something like that instead of the unreliable
power company I use, great back up if you could fuel it, safely and not let the nuclear regulatory comission in on it.

The kid was making a breeder reactor, not a bomb. This isn't exactly the place for this topic- I vote it be moved to the WC.

Yeah, it should be moved. You'd think of all his research he would have learned alitle about safety. Damn, to illegaly purify
radium and americium would require a large safety margin if you asked me I would have spent that thousand dollars he spent
on bateries on a proper suit and some various metal sheeting to coat the shed in. Sounds a little to costly for me but it would
be fun.
Mendeleev January 19th, 2004, 01:01 AM

The reason I posted this thread in the HE section was because I was hoping to build on David's OTC research, and discuss the
theoretical prospect of building a nuclear explosive. It would require the radioactive fuel he attained, a structured core, some
wiring, and and HE... But, the water cooler is fine by me, I just wasn't sure. Anyway, does anybody know if they still sell those
radium clocks, I think David operated in the mid-late 80's so they might have disappeared off the market, but I know for sure
that smoke detectors and thorium lanterns are still pletiful. I doubt anybody here will actually build a nuclear weapon, as
testing it would pose problems, and to do to so you would have to be a megalomaniac...

Radium watch dials went away by the mid 60's. United Nuclear still sells various radioactive ores- But it's hard to think of this
as being a viable project.
Wild Catmage January 19th, 2004, 07:11 AM

The report gives some pretty good information on how he obtained the substances he needed. The guy's perserverence was
amazing, proving that when there's a will, there's a way...
I don't think that I'd want to try "experimenting" with nuclear material though. At least not until I acquire large amounts of
shielding materials. Was the guy charged for any offences for building the reactor?
KuruptA January 19th, 2004, 12:02 PM

I dont beleive he was charged with anything, he wasnt over 18 at the time so it was only juvenile offenses anyway.
As for this part... what is the author on about??!!??
" As she huddled with a group of nervous neighbors, though, Pease heard one resident claim to have awoken late one night to
see the potting shed emitting an eerie glow."
Unlike cartoon animators beleifs, radioactive materials dont glow green! =P Any idea what this is about??

it doesn't really fit into HE's since it doesn't 'detonate'. moving...

Yeah, unfortunately they stopped making those clocks, but maybe an antique store, or E-bay would have it. My chemistry
teacher said that while teaching the nuclear unit, the most radioactive thing he's ever put under his geiger counter was an old
clock a student brought in, and this was back around 93-95, so its still possible. As far as radioactive shielding, I'm pretty sure
it wouldn't be to hard to get any, there are numerous suppliers of full NCB gas masks and suits, selling them to people,
saying its good to have it just in case. Also the lab where I work as an intern works with numerous radioactive isotopes
including P-32, P-33, H-3, as well as radioactive calcium and iodine, and their shielding is simply a large glass shield which
looks like it shouldn't be to hard to obtain. Geiger counters aren't to hard to obtain either. There is a catalog called the
sovietski collection which sells "soviet" merchandise and one of their things is a geiger counter for around $50 and
www.sciplus.com sells one for $125.00. To tell you the truth I am quite tempted by this project, I just don't have the $cash.

I already have a geiger counter and have searched the entire mountian side(believe me hours on end) and have not even
gotten the needle to move. I should be looking around my town for sources of radiation though not to build a nuclear device,
just to have. I could see my self trying that though, not without carefully thought up safety measures and about a thousand
dollars in shielding. Make a great science fair project though, imagine their faces when you tell them that it's a nuclear breeder
reactor. somebody should try firing small doses ov various forms of radiation in to frogs or fish eggs. That would be a great
science fair project.

Um, where are you prospecting for radioactive ores? They're not just on every gravel pile, you know! Take the geiger counter
to the thrift shops, antique stores & etc. Hold it up to old orange or yellow glazed pottery- You might get a surprise.

I was curious if the U-233 that David produced would be considered weapons grade? Also, don't most geiger counters come
with a small radioactive sample so you know if its working.

According to The Nuclear Weapons FAQ (http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq6.html#nfaq6.2) Despite the gamma and
neutron emission drawbacks, U-233 is otherwise an excellent primary fissile material. It has a much smaller critical mass than
U-235, and its nuclear characteristics are similar to plutonium. The U.S. conducted its first test of a U-233 bomb core in Teapot
MET in 1957 and has conducted quite a number of bomb tests using this isotope, although the purpose of these tests is not
clear. India is believed to have produced U-233 as part of its weapons research and development, and officially includes U-233
breeding as part of its nuclear power program.
Neoknite January 19th, 2004, 11:50 PM

I dont know if this will be helpful or not but this article below tells of radioactive material you can get from ebay. The problem
is its kind of "shady" about the details. I could not find the marble on ebay but they had a bunch of glass uranium dishes,
after you changed the search to just uranium. So heres the site, Havent done html in years dont know if the link will work so ill
try it with and w/o the code. <a href="http://www.bluemud.org/article/23605 ">Here </a> http://www.bluemud.org/article/
23605
---------------
Use the "New Reply" button to be able to preview your message.
Rhadon

Actualy my geiger counter is old and I got it from my paranoid grandad and he paied top dollar for it so it should be working
but I don't know. He also had a calibrated survey meter wich we threw out(damn it). His father was a painter and it is likely
that he had some radium paint in one of his boxes. Why didn't i think of this earlier? I should order some uranium ore from
united nuclear and see if it is working.
Mendeleeve, if it says that it is "fission"able then it is able to be used as weapons grade uranium.

I do beleive that this had been discussed in a thread a year or so ago. if it wasn't here it must've been on science madness
either way there should be plenty of links and keywords you can try.
there was an article in readers digest about this kid back in '98 or '97. probably the same basic article you have

Do you remember the exact title of the Reader's Digest post?

The old thread that covered this issue is here (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?
s=&threadid=579&highlight=merit+badge). It has the whole Harper's magazine article cut & pasted into it.

The amount of fissile material created by Hahn was of the order of atoms and certainly not detectable. If you want detectable,
there are ways over long periods of time and multikilowatt accelerators, similar to the fusor people which uses only unrestricted
materials. If you want visible, and this is still orders of magnetude below what youd need for a bomb, youd be talking of a
multimegawatt facility running for long periods of time. If you want enough for a bomb, its almost a reactor or nothing, and
these only come in 1 size for obvious reasons and require very expensive heavy water, or very very pure graphite (artificially
produced specifically for reactors). At somepoint I will run some numbers for amount of fissile material produced per unit time/
cost for several methods 'possible' at home.
Treat the artical for what it is, a tall story loosly based on actual events.
Mendeleev January 21st, 2004, 12:35 PM

Whoops, I didn't notice this article posted in the other post, I searched, still though... I still think if the radiation was
detectable five doors away through concrete that this kid must have had something. I think you can get enough U-233 if you
have tons of camping lanterns, with a radium neutron gun.
Bert January 21st, 2004, 12:57 PM
I think that kid and everything he owned were mildy contaminated to the point where he was probably detecting the crap he
was personaly contaminated with rather than his facility.
atlas#11 January 21st, 2004, 05:04 PM

Definant possibility, but arn't geiger counters sensitive to direction? He was definantly contaminated though. United nuclear
sells an americum source, has any one purchased one of these? they arn't going to have much in them but they would work
for a neutron gun wouldn't they? I can get smoke detectors much cheaper but I dont know how much more usefull the source
will be.

Yeah, geigers are direction sensitive, and remember he bought a broken americium shipment for cheap.
mrcfitzgerald January 21st, 2004, 06:16 PM

The amount of fissle material that the boyscout had was way to small to do anything remotely destructive; however, If the
accounts are true and the radation was as high as it was reported - he could have easily incorperated the package into a
radiological dispertion (aka: dirty bomb) device and spread his radioactive materials over a large area causing immence
disruption but little cost to human life. ( It should be noted that this would be easier than stealing any source of radation). As
for any atomic device on the improvised level - it is too hard to follow conventional designs or ideas using fissle fuel, there are
nations that lack that ability. Instead, what is needed is an unconventional method - that doesnt use fissle fuel (pure fusion)
For instance, the fusor is a reliable technology which produces consistant results so why can we not use something similar?
Patent number 4,826,646 (created by Robert Bussard) describes a process inwhich one could create fusion with far higher
efficiency than the fusor - not only that, he claims that it can achieve a powergain on the order of 100-1000 for a modest sized
device. You may say it sounds to good to be true; however, the forums at fusor.net are talking about this technology, this
concept has been proven to work, and the navy has given Mr.Bussard 4.9million to develope these and other similar devices -
sounds pretty good now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[warning here comes the the theoretical part - not to sure of my theory]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if Mr. Bussard's device was hooked up to another wonderful device - the Flux compression generator? For those who do
not know yet, the FCG (besides creating emp) can create a huge pulse of energy on the order of 1 terrawatt and above.
Should this energy be coupled to bussard's fusor device huge energy gains can be expected (remember G=100-1000). It gets
better though. If the fusion device burns boron and hydrogen as advertised, energy can be easily extracted through the use of
a large positive screen surounding the device (this works because the alpha paricles given off by the p+B11 process are slowed
when reaching the grid, thus transmitting their energy to the grid collecter). This energy, instead of being used for some
useless purpose could be redirected into the fusion device to produce a denser core and higher fusion rates - and the device
would produce a 100-1000 gain from this energy, and that would be redirected, and so on...
Thus from a 1 terrawatt begining the device would produce an uncontrolable release of energy. The only faults that I can
immagine includes the fact that the focusing grids would vaporise after several milliseconds (process should be done by then)
and since most fusors need a high vacuum too opperate - could this work without one as there would be a gram or so of
fusion fuel spinning around in an area that would quickly become somewhat dense.
Another option is using the bussard fusor with deuterium in order to creat a high flux of neutrons for changing of U-238 to Pu-
239. Mr. Bussard claims that use of the fusor in this fasion would be 50 times more effective than a conventional fission
reactor of the same thermal output, and should this be true - a fusion reactor of about 200 megawatts would produce the
same amount of Pu-239 as a fission reactor of 1 gigawatt, and that is roughly 1 kilogram a day (Source = the Nuclear FAQ).
Even more interesting is the fact that a fusor of 200 megawatts would only be about 4m in diameter. Unfortunantly, I would
expect this route to be dangerous and labour intensive.
An alternative route to atomic power would be fast fissioning of U-238, but thats another post :)
Well theres my $0.02 - hope its well liked
Jacks Complete January 21st, 2004, 07:09 PM

atlas#11,
I think your counter is broken! Even just sitting on a shelf, turned on, you should get a background count. In some places 80
counts a minute is common, and if you don't hear anything for a minute, your tube is duff. Certainly when we did anything at
school, the background was fairly high, and the sources low, so the difference was the major thing.
Also, you get different types of tubes, that detect different types of radiation. Most tubes won't pick up Alphas, and most are
not very sensitive to gamma, or certainly not the direction of gamma. Neutrons don't register on anything but the best modern
ones.
If you really want to test your tube with beta particles, remember, they are just fast moving electrons. Get a CRT, power it up,
then "measure" the radiation coming off it. There should be a fair bit. Failing that, get near a ioniser or other source of high
voltage. You could also try your basement, as Radon is quite common, and gets trapped down there. You can search online to
see what levels you can expect.

Holy shit mrcfitzgerald, that is an insane idea! :D I like it, but certainly not for the OTC chemist with a fortune smaller than Bill
Gates. What I was hoping to do if I ever aquired moderate funds, was isolate numerous thorium mantles to transform them to
U-233. Structure a core, surrounded by some HE such as RDX and create a wiring system which would simultaneously detonate
all sides of the core. The only question is I have is how would the uranium be arranged in the core? In implosions nukes is it
structured like a soccer ball with the fissile material divided into soccer ball pentagons and hexagons or is it solid? The only
drawback is I would never be able to test this if I ever made it unless I decided to take a trip to the Sahara.
mrcfitzgerald January 22nd, 2004, 12:20 AM
The problem with assembling a U-233 core is that, youve got to make the U-233 in the first place. To get any descent sized
device, and Im talking like 10kt (because it gets more complex the smaller you get from this level), you must manufacture at
least 4.5 maybe 5 kilograms of U-233 from Thorium - the energy requirements for this is on the order of 5 or 6 thousand
thermal megawatt hours, and that is for a nuclear plant. Also, it is impossible and unwise to use a "burn rate" much above 1/
500 for weapon grade material. (this means that 1kg of thorium is produced for roughly every 500kg intoduced into the
reactor environment - though you could seperated the uranium from the thorium, it would entail expensive chemical or
thermal processing every two days or so - and that is assuming you have a nuclear reactor in the first place.) Youve also got
to watch the formation of U-232 which is a potent gamma emmiter. As for the spherical implosion, point ignition systems dont
work to well, there is to much interaction between each expanding shockwave from each point - the military had to use
explosive lenses (which are very hard to develope) Please read the Nuclear FAQ, an excellent reasource, which will answer all
the questions you may have about conventional nukes. To sum it up, it is impossible to do anything nuclear on the cheap.
However, there is a hope - you dont need to be Bill Gates to use the method described in my first post, if you read
Mr.Bussard's patent carefully you would see that all that is really needed is a vacuum (10 to the -6 torr) and a polyhedral
shaped electromagnet to focus electrons in the center of the device. (The electrons can be introduced into the chamber via
heating coils on the inward faceing side of the electomagnet)
In addition you would need and ion injection source - I prefer a arc injection (somewhat more simple to make than some other
devices.) And for the really fancy, a charged grid to gather the eletrical energy from alpha particles and redirect the energy
back into the device. The idea being that the injected ions fall towards the negativly charged center and collide with the
opposing ion beam, fusing in the process and releasing alpha particles which upon slowing down at the positive grid (alpha
ions = +) induce a current strong enough to fuse an ever increasing number of ions. I urge you to read patent 4,826,646 for
more detail.
--------------------------------------------------
In really simple detail, all Im trying to do is send a really energetic pulse into something very similar to the fusor - save that it
makes more energy than is put in, and instead of letting that untapped energy go - redirect it into the bussard fusor to fuse
an ever increasing number of H+B11 ions. The blast comes from the vaporization of the surroundings via intense X-rays which
pass right out of the device and are not collected or absorbed. Not really that complex.
--------------------------------------------------
Price is not to bad, for 1-2000 dollars you could have it built (and even that is a really expensive esitmate). Oh, and should it
work, It gives quite a bang for the buck - 1 gram of fusion fuel (borax and Hydrogen) at 70% burn efficiency would equal
about 45-50 tons of TNT. Finally you would need one FCG, but thats been discussed on the forum, and I feel Im writting a tad
to much :)
Hope this helps clarify the first post!
Marvin January 22nd, 2004, 12:51 AM

With radiation measurements its rather hard to tell the source from random noise at a distance and if you're being interviewed
by a clueless (about physics) reporter you wont labour on the uncertainty. "Yeah, I could detect it 2 countries over". Hahn
wasnt interested in playing down the effect, and neither was the reporter writing the artical.
There are also plenty of real effects that would explain the increase in the piles radioactivity after the radium extraction from
the paint, pure alphas dont register on ordinary geigers, only the beta/gamma daughters do and these will increase with time
following the exraction. Add a little showmanship, and you got a 'breeder reactor', at least in the eyes of the readers if not
yourself. Add a little self deception and you could easily believe that the reactor was actually working so that it would only be a
matter of time before it exceeded the radioactivity of the paint.
The experiment wasnt done properly, and the results are questionable at best. The important thing here though is, could it
actually work if it was done properly?
Pu is the easiest bet becuase it has the smallest critical mass, so we'll assume this is the product and that the correct blanket
is provided to prodce this. Same method would apply for U-233, but more is needed.
Back of an envelope calc. To get a quantity of Pu that would go critical in a bomb, if not perform well, youd need about 2kg.
Thats about 10 moles. To make it we need 10moles of neutrons assuming 100% capture (very unlikley, but this is the best
achiveable, so we will assume it). To get 10 moles of neutrons from a radium neutron gun using the best (a,n) convertor
(Beryllium), you need 300 000 moles of alpha particals (1uCi of alphas produce very close to 1 neutron a second, actual value
being about 1 neutron per 30k alphas), its at this point the math, which perfectly correct on a logical basis, starts to look very
silly. Assuming 3 alphas per radium total for ease of math, we need 100 000 moles of radium. Converting back, thats about
20 million grams. (this hack conversion and the one from critical mass cancel almost, so dont worry about that, we only need a
rough idea anyway).
Ok, so what would 20 tons of radium cost? Well about 500 USD per mg, that works out to about 10 million million USD or 10
trillion dollers. Do we have a 'working' solution now? Well kinda. Spend 20 trillion dollers on radium (for half of it to decay in
the time alloted), mix very well with Be, surround with the breeder blanket so all of the neutrons get captured and 2000 years
later or so you have a critical mass of plutonium, with a 'simple' chemical extraction.
Ok, using the same bright outlook what could Hahn have been doing with what he had. A single clock is around a few uCi at
the most and lets assume a bottle of the stuff could do a few hundred clocks (unlikley, but again with the optimism). That
would give him a total of about 1mCi which would make a geiger scream like the four horsemen of the apolocalypse were
stirfrying children on the 9oclock news. In reality, maybe 1/10th of this, maybe less.
That would have given Hahn about a thousand neutrons a sec perfectly mixed with a large molar excess of Be. Using a Be
target without mixing, much much less, 10 a sec maybe? With quite a large blanket he'd be very lucky for 1% of those
produced actually make fuel.
In other words, lucky though he was with his find, he was at least 20 orders of magnetude below what would be useful to
anyone interested in weapons. More tellingly, the rate at which he was creating new fissionable isotopes was less than he was
losing through simple decay.
Ok, I think thats enough work for a watercooler post bound for eventual deletion, so I'll give it a rest. I might run some
numbers for some more likley methods, as I'm interested in what could be done, assuming you have the resources of a small
country at your disposal and need nukes.
wrench352 January 22nd, 2004, 11:31 AM

I vote we kick this to the original thread.Good work Marvin!
Mendeleev January 22nd, 2004, 12:59 PM
Yeah, okay, I just didn't find the other one when I searched.
powdermunkey January 26th, 2004, 01:29 PM

Nice analysis, Marvin. It agrees with what I read at the fusor forum pretty well, too. I built a neutron source from americium
and radium with beryllium. The total neutron activity is calculated to be about 10 neutrons per hour, give or take. I can pick up
the gamma output from about 3 feet away with a Ludlum counter and a panckae detector. A cool scientific trivial item, but
useless for any practical purpose. Anybody that lives in western Colorado or eastern Utah can pick up uranium ore by the
bucketful by hunting old mine dumps with a geiger counter. Lots of fun.
raptor1956 August 27th, 2004, 07:19 PM

I get a tad concerned about the whole homemade nuke thing. The theoretical concept is fine, but if any prozac-filled angry
high school kid out there actually manages to get hold of decent uranium or weapons grade plutonium, viable quantities of
berrylium, and decent machine tools, PLEASE dont build the damned thing near me, as all the plans I've seen on the net
neglect to mention little details like the need to work in an enclosed inert atmosphere like argon, and serious filtering units
and dust extractors. I've had one brush with cancer and dont feel the need for some of the more exotic varieties! :)
Pb1 August 27th, 2004, 09:53 PM

if any prozac-filled angry high school kid out there actually manages to get hold of decent uranium or weapons grade
plutonium...
...then the FBI will hunt them down before they can do anything even remotely dangerous with them. Don't worry, we won't
nuke you... :p
Marvin August 27th, 2004, 10:24 PM

If someone neer you can get bomb worthy fissionable material, you have bigger problems than plutonium oxide particulates.
Personally, I think you are more likley to be the only person in your street not to win the state lottery.
The plans on the net are mostly jokes anyway, some of them are even intentional.
Bugger August 28th, 2004, 09:52 AM

And where do you expect to get the required critical amount (about 1 kg, to produce the flux of neutrons required to sustain
an induced fission chain-reaction) of fissionable enriched uranium (U which is enriched in U-235 and depleted in U-238 -
requires diffusion or centrifuging as UF6, which is hydrolysed by traces of water), or of the plutonium (mostly Pu-239, with
smaller amounts of 242 and 244) which is recovered from spent enriched-U reactor fuel rods? And even if you did, you would
have to machine, or melt and cast, the stuff into two hemispheres of more than half the critical mass each, which in bombs are
forced together with a conventional explosive to start the chain-reaction induced fission reaction. The extreme chemical toxicity
of the isotopes, even the U-238, would make this step very hazardous indeed. And I very much doubt that a Ra-Be neutron
source could provide anything like the neutron flux to initiate and sustain a chain-reaction induced fission reaction in a sub-
critical amount of Pu or enriched U.
Bugger.
Mendeleev August 29th, 2004, 12:47 AM

Yeah, I didn't realize when I posted this earlier how much it would take to get a sufficient mass of U-233. The whole home-
made nuke thing really is joke as Marvin mentioned. It would be hypothetically possible but you would probably have to be
chemist, physicist, and engineer all in one, as well as being skilled in welding construction to make the apparati needed, and
investing $10,000 in chemicals including HF, Ca metal, tertiary amines and etc. Thus some high school kid like Hahn would
never be able to pull it off unless he stole 4 kg of enriched uranium from some government storage facility which is even more
unlikely than purifying U-235 from the ore.
Chris The Great August 29th, 2004, 05:25 AM

Yeah, the homemade nuke thing porbably couldn't be made by one person. but plutonium production using a huge fusor
would only require natural uranium, which is quite easy to come by (compared to stuff like thorium). Hydrogen fusion (via
large fusor) produces vast amounts of nuetrons, and when they hit the uranium blanket, they will fast fission causing a single
nuetron to become several, which are then captured by the U238 and become plutnium239. Thus a single nuetron from the
fusor is three atoms of plutonium, as well as a large release of energy. The fast fission could probably make the fusor self
sustaining, no matter how poor your actualy power in to power out efficiency is for the fusor. I calculated the need for a total
system efficiency of 0.325% or so to be completely self sustaining using 50% D+D and 50% D+T fusion. If pure dueterium is
used, the efficiency requirement rises slightly, and the plutonium production drops a fair amount (D+T fusion nuetrons cause
double the plutonium because they have so much KE), but who cares since tritium in moderate amounts is nearly impossible
to some by.
As for making a bomb, a crude bomb using multiple critical masses could work fine. critical mass is determined by the nuetron
MFP through the core, so if it's hollow, you get more mass without an explosion. Collapse it and it's supercritical and you get
20kT without a problem. A precision implosion system is not needed unless you want to get some actual efficiency or not use
alot of plutonium.
mrcfitzgerald August 29th, 2004, 06:04 AM

Its the third damn time I wrote a response because of stupid Internet Explorer (Meltdown) so Ill just make it shorter:
The threat of nuclear terrorism is quite significant if a terrorist organization was to accumulate Heu. To clarify, the critical mass
of Uranium-235 is 15Kg when reflected by a 10 centimeters of beryllium. Since Heu is only 93% U-235 this implies total critical
mass of such a system to be 16.1Kg. To produce any significant yield far more than 1 critical mass is needed, in this case lets
assume the terrorist accuire 1.8 critical masses (30Kg total). This device would contain 2.1kilograms of U-238 giving a
spontaneous neutron rate of 12 neutrons a second. In order to prevent a fizzle, the device must have an insertion time of at
least 1/120 second. This is rather easy as the bullet only needs to maintain 12 meters a second for a predetonaton chance of
10%. Yield 2.5 kilotons... None of the technology is exotic (except Uranium and Beryllium casting) and any group determined
enough most likely will succeed. Radation hazard is negligable and the only cancer risk is the beryllium...
Marvin August 29th, 2004, 02:23 PM

mrcfitzgerald,
I agree completely, if you can get over a critical mass of 80%+ U-235 a bomb is a fairly trivial piece of engineering. It wont be
high yeilding, but it will go off. Toxicity of the uranium is not a problem, uranium fuel rods are polished by hand before they
go into reactors, uranium oxide used to be a common pigment in glassmaking. HEU will be more active, but not enough to
cause immediate problems.
HEU only has one use though, bombs. If the goverment lets this escape theyve allready lost, and they know this.
Plutonium is more of a risk becuase it isnt diluted in normal reactor use with non fissile isotopes, so its more likley a terrorist
would be able to get this - if anything at all. Reactor grade plutonium is overcooked, so there are a lot of isotopes with high
spontanious fission rates. This makes a high yeilding bomb much harder to make, but if you only need 5kt or so this is
feasable. If a terrorist is able to get hold of nuclear material, you have to assume they can get high explosives. Using large
amounts of high explosive its possible to make much smaller amounts of fissile material into a bomb, a few kg should
suffice. Plutonium is vastly more toxic due to chemical and radiological effects but building a bomb is certainly possible.
In both cases its the getting or making of the fissile material thats the hard part.
mrcfitzgerald August 29th, 2004, 05:20 PM

No doubt getting Pu-239 is more likely, the issue with this type of weapon is the difficulty in assembly fast enough. There are
several ways terrorists may actually go about doing this. This includes planar, cylindrical and spherical implosion, of these I
consider planar and cylindrical implosion most likely -achieving spherical implosion appears to be simply insurmountable. For a
planar system, one would simply need to mount one planar lens generator behind a cylindrical disk of Plutonium. The disk, of
course, could be reflected with beryllium in order to reduce its Critical mass to 5kg. Upon detonation the shockwave could be
allowed to unload over an airgap and accelerate accelerate the disk to roughly 2-3 kilometers per second. This projectile would
then colide into another identical, stationary, assembly. Insertion time would be roughly 1/60000 - 1/40000 a second or: 16-
25 microseconds. Effieciency would be ~0.7% yield 1.27 kilotons. Infact it may be better than this as delta-phase Plutonium
will undergo transition to Alpha phase plutonium when shocked above 20 kilobars; there may be some shockwave
compression too on top of that... Then again, the disk-shape requires 1.34 times as much Pu-239 so the results probably
cancel eachother out. This may have been the design taken by the genie, a nuclear air-to-air missile with a yield of 1.7
kilotons and a weight of 218lbs (it may of used a U-238 tamper though, which would of increased the weight by a substantial
amount). This design would, however, require weapons grade Plutonium metal -I believe reactor grade would produce an
insignificant yield. Cylindrical implosion is deffinately more difficult -it appears that, while planar waves generally smooth
themselves out in the prescence of instabilities, converging detonation waves do not. As such, a group would need to develope
either a flying plate ignition system, or a cylindrical lensed system (the lens probably be the more difficult of the two.) Using a
beryllium reflector, such a design may weigh as little as 500-1000 lbs. Yield could possibly be in the range of 15 kilotons if
weapons grade plutonium was used, since this is not likely -it is probable that reactor grade Pu used in such a device would
fizzle everytime at between 200-500 tons yield... Thus it seems either device would be extrodinarily difficult to manufacture,
the first one requiring weapons grade type material (they may be able to purify reactor grade to weapons grade via centrifuge
in as little as 10 cascade steps), the other requiring sophisticated lensed apparati. Furthermore, it seems extrodinarily unlikely
for them to seperate such materials out of fuel rods (which have a surface radation dose of something on the order of 10,000
rads an hour...) Nontheless, terrorist have proved themselves .... suicidal in the past and there is a good chance for that to
continue... The best safeguard is, certainly, moniter closely the flow of nuclear fissle materials and wastes. Prehaps this thread
should be moved out of the water cooler, again?
Edit: See the nuclear faq on www.nuclearweaponarchive.org for further information -it is very good and provides so much more
than you could ever find on the net. I also recommend "Swords of Armageddon," even though I have not read it... it appears
to be the deffinitive work on nuclear weapons -a bit pricey though.
How about using a PARAGRAPH break every once in a while? ;)
NBK
salt37 August 29th, 2004, 10:24 PM

Mrcfitzgerald, this is a good idea. Why not build your own reactor? A homogenous nuclear reactor would be the best bet. It is
safe (it cannot melt down, I'll explain that later) and fairly easy to build. The only downside is it requires a critical mass of one
pound of U-235 which is about 150 pounds of natural uranium. The purified U-235 is ground into a powder and put into water.
The water acts as a moderator and this prevents a meltdown. As the water gets hotter, it moderates neutrons less and less
untill it just won't moderate neutrons anymore. It also requires a carbon reflector around the reactor unit. Also you should not
forget the cement shelding on the unit. In small quantities, you could get useful isotopes. For example if you run the reactor
at 300 kilowatt days for one year, you get 2 grams of strontium or 111 grams of Pu-239/U-233.
mrcfitzgerald August 29th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Reactors require the foremost attention to detail. It seems a homogenous "boiling water" type reactor would be less
complicated than heterogenous type though... I believe this was one of the first types of reactors -extrodinarily popular in the
40-50's (even fermi manufacture one after his Chicago pile types) but fell out of favor later on due to low power density... It
appears that this type of reactor may be, with much effort and expense, feasible -but not for the production of any fissle
materials other than gram quantities. It would serve little purpose breeding material for the bomb, instead it may find more
use in the creation of tritium for boosting. A device, such as those I've mentioned above, that is boosted will produce
extrodinarily high efficiencies for its given critical mass. Take for example, the theoretical U-235 device above -if it was
boosted it would produce a good 20-30 kilotons instead of 2.4. Tritium, however, has a low atomic mass which makes it
difficult to produce large quantities of -furthermore its half life is 3 years and as such requires constant replacement. In the
given example above, it may be seen that for every year one could have 1.4 grams of tritium which just happens to be
enough for a standard device (it may be possible, however, that as little as half a gram of tritium is required.)
salt37 August 30th, 2004, 03:28 PM

Mrcfitzgerald, why not build a gun type device? Construction of such a device should be fairly easy. Only difficule part is getting
fissile material. The critical mass of U-233 is about 16 kg and U-235 is about 52 kg. Perhaps a natural uranium tamper and
some tritium for fussion boosting. Perhaps some other methods could be used to get wierd fission isotopes like thorium to U-
234. An efficent gun type is fairly high yeild and fairly simple to construct.
akinrog August 30th, 2004, 09:00 PM

Edit: See the nuclear faq on www.nuclearweaponarchive.org for further information -it is very good and provides so much more
than you could ever find on the net. I also recommend "Swords of Armageddon," even though I have not read it... it appears
to be the deffinitive work on nuclear weapons -a bit pricey though.
I have read as much as possible of the site you recommended. The site seems to be a good source of information and it led
me to think that the issue of making a (thermo)nuclear device is not a simple but a very demanding task. Even if one can
obtain enough fissile material, there are several parameters to be taken into account even the gun type device that majority
of members deem simple. The account of "Little Boy" reflects this fact properly.
Anyway it was a good read. Thank you for the link.

P.S. It was leeched, compressed and uploaded to the forum FTP.
Chris The Great September 2nd, 2004, 06:04 AM

The half life of tritium is ~12.5 years, not three.
All nuclear weapons will be somewhat challenging to design, however, they really are easy to get working. To get a bomb to
function with great efficiency is a demanding task however, and will definatly require large amounts of research and alot of
techological expertise. Shooting two 40kg pieces of HEU together will create a large explosion, and hardly any skill is required
to build this sort of weapon (there is more to it than that, so don't think I don't understand the work that needs to go into a
viable weapon).
A spherical implosion weapon could be constructed, however, it wouldn't be a perfect implosion. But have 3 critical masses in a
layered core design, and it won't need to be perfect to work well, simply because there is so much fissile material. It's crude,
but it works.
Luckily, there is alot of hype out there about nuclear weapons being impossible to construct (or being incredibly simple, which
is also missleading). This, combined with the fact weapons grade material is very hard to aquire in useful quantities, means
that any terrorist organization is not going to put a large amount of resources into a project that may never see success due to
lack of material or engineering capabilities.
mrcfitzgerald September 4th, 2004, 01:55 AM

The half life of tritium is ~12.5 years, not three.
Absolutely true, It was late and I must have confused it with the atomic mass somehow... Anyways, I found an interesting
tidbit of information. It appears that tritium/deuterium boosting may not be required after all for the boosting effect. Test
Snapper-Dog (You must really wonder how they come up with these names... :rolleyes: ) was reportedly just deuterium
boosting. The design was not adopted though, as it seems deuterium/tritium boosting is far more utilized. Prehaps, the
addition of a small amount of lithium-6 deuteride to the core will allow a bit of tritium breeding before fusion ignition, and
prehaps a bit more fusion burn then deuterium gas alone.
Marvin September 7th, 2004, 10:42 PM

I understand a fusion core to a conventional spherical implosion device will double the yeild but not much more. Much the
same for using a depleted uranium reflector. For anything bigger you need a proper Teller-Ulam design.
Using 3 critical masses in a layer cake design would work, I agree. But the smart terrorist would try to make 2 bombs for his
money. The way to go would be to use as a little as possible to get the comparason between Hiroshima or Nagasaki, its the
news reports and the hearsay and the global fear that are the goal, not dead people or the number of zeros behind the
estimated yield. This would dictate you make as many as possible bombs from however little fissile material you can find.
Part of project Orion was to develop small efficiant bombs that used as little fissile material as possible. Its application to
terrorists who would probably struggle to get enough for one bomb is almost certainly why this project hasnt been declassified.
kreme September 8th, 2004, 09:46 PM

I recall one time when I was trying to locate bomb mechanics on the net when I went to a web page that teaches how to make
a home made nuclear bomb. I was able to download and copy the text but the disk I saved it on got lost. Anyway, after some
time I could not locate the site anymore and it was such a shame that I lost the text. But still, the author of the site cautioned
if people are gonna try,it is really dangerous without proper knowledge.
Marvin September 9th, 2004, 03:15 AM

I'd give you 100:1 odds the file wasnt worth the price of the floppy disk it was stored on.
None of the 'how to build a nuclear weapon' texts Ive ever read were worth the time it took to read them technically. There is a
lot of infomation on Carey Subletts FAQ, and a vast amount of data on how the early bombs both fission and fusion were
designed, the amount of fissile material used, the whole nine yards. None of it will talk about 'how to build' anything, only this
is what has been done, this is how well it did, and this is why.
Its a matter of competancy. Anyone dumb enough to want to write a 'how to' article on nuclear weapons is automatically too
stupid or too young to understand how they work. By definition the author would have had to have succeeded with his process
in the past.
The only good how to articles are by people who are totally competant, want to see people do the same things they can and
know they can succeed without large amounts of background information.
Anthony September 9th, 2004, 08:16 AM

kreme, go back, read your post and asses it objectively. Point me out one single piece of useful information (or even opinion)
that it provides. As I see it, it tells us all here absolutely nothing. Like the "how to" nuke texts Marvin mentions, your post isn't
worth the time it takes to read it.
We expect a high standard of posting at this forum. Every word should be important. It is a crime to waste seconds of busy
peoples' lives, and a waste of bits.
Please put more thought into your future posts.
Chris The Great September 10th, 2004, 03:17 PM

The liH booster idea using only dueterium might not work that well now that I think about it (before I assumed, being able to
assume with not building it and all, that it would work ok, but not as well as tritium and dueterium lithium hydride.) probably
will not achieve enough heat before core dissambly to actually produce a notible effect. Tritium would not be produced enough
from fission nuetrons in such a small sphere to cause and effect.
On the other hand, I'm sure if you actually made your own nuke, you would probably be able to get tritium easily compared to
the fission core. Even with it's short half life, you could store it for several years without any noticable effects. But I would be
very surprised if you stored it at all, instead of blowing something up within a few months. I don't think it would be a really big
design problem compared to getting enough plutonium or uranium for the core.
John Shuman October 1st, 2005, 08:23 PM

I have a report from an internet company that has a story about: a dumb guy once disintegrated his house using a UV laser
and radioactive material. I am wanting to know if the story is true. I calculated the yield of detonation assuming 1gm Th232
was forced to instantly alpha fission at 100% efficiecy(and my math is correct, it's been awhile since I've worked with this sort
of stuff) at 1.6 Ton (not Kiloton). I am looking for a large explosion (think a truck bomb level blast) INSIDE the home of a
free energy researcher.
John Shuman October 7th, 2005, 03:37 PM

I have a small report that states there was "a dumb guy who disintegrated his house witha UV laser" and some radioactive
material. I am wanting to know if anyone has heard of a mystery explosion INSIDE a free energy researcher's home that would
have been on the order of a truck bomb blast but at his workbench. This probably occured from late 80's on.
I would ordinarily discount something like this story except I also have a copy of "The Evolution of Matter" by Gustave LeBon in
1856, in which he describes tabletop experiments at making nonradioactive materials radioactive. His exact apparatus is not
known except he worked with UV light from the sun focussed in lenses. He also did not work with material already radioactive.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Legality
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View Full Version : Legality
ScaredKewlNoob January 19th , 2004, 12:36 AM

W hat kind of licensing is necessary in the u.s. to legally m a n u f a c t u r e e x p l o s i v e s ?
Skean Dhu January 19th , 2004, 11:05 AM

you're kiddin g m e right? a one-line question....
anywho you need a license from the BATF , and if you consider pursuing this hobby its not worth it. $200 to get it and then
$100 annual to renew it plus the chance that some BATF croney will do a random check on y o u t o m a k e s u r e y o u h a v e y o u r
explosives stored correctly(proper m agazines , proper d istance from living quarters and from them selves) and of co urse they
will stop by a t the mo st inopportune(sp?) tim e. but seriously UTFSE it would have taken you a whole 5 min to go to the BATF
site and then view the requirem ents fo r the lice n s e

ScaredKewlNoob-
Go to the Federal Explosives Law and Regulations (http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/index.htm ) p a g e a n d l o o k u n d er

sub parts "D" & "E". T here are several different licenses depending on what you intend to m anufacture. You will need to
arrange for proper m agazine storage to get a license as well- It's all in the "orange book". Read it and then ask specific
questions, OK?
Skean Dhu-
T h e s t u p i d e s t q u e s t i o n i s t h e o n e y o u d i d n ' t a s k . T h e c h e c k s y o u m e n t i o ned will all occur BEFORE they even grant you a
license. Afterwards, they will check you out occa sionally. Such things as m a k i n g s u r e y o u ' r e k e e p i n g r e c o r d s , y o u r m a g a z i n e
isn't falling a part, the re's no brush or grass too close that could catch fire and tak e out your m a g a z i n e - I k n o w P L E N T Y o f
hobbyists who have d one what it takes to be legal. Yes, it costs a few hundred to several thousands of dollars to be com e l e g a l .
The price of being busted for NO T being legal will always be considerably higher. It cost us about $ 10,000.00 for everything to
b e c o m e l e g a l, but we're running a fireworks display business and needed to fit out quite a large m a g a z i n e . P e o p l e w h o o n l y
n e e d a s m all indoor m a g a z i n e t h e y c a n m a k e t h e m s e l v e s , l i k e t h e c o m posite rocket hobbyist who just wan ts to make a few
fuel grains for reloadable m otors can do it for under $500.00 usually-

Speaking of legalities, I couldn't find dinitronapthalene on the ATF list of explosives comp iled in 2002. This suggests to m e
that one could m a k e a s m uch DNN as one wanted and not be at risk from the law. Only when one wanted to use som e, it would
be given it's final nitration treatment to TeNN or used as part of a compo sition (then becom ing illegal without a permit).

R e a d t h e h e a d i n g o f t h e l i s t m ore carefully (http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Plm Nu2VvA98J:www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-
e x p l o _ p u b / l i s t o f e x p . h t m +%22list+of+explosive+m aterials%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) While the list is comprehensive, it is not all
inclusive. The fact that an explosive m aterial m ay not b e on the list does not mean that it is not within the coverage of the law
if it otherwise m eets the statutory definitions in section 841 of title 18, U.S.C .
If th e substa nce can be set off by a #8 cap, it's autom atically included whether or not they called it out specifically. Anyone
know if 2g of PETN will initiate it? That's their "standard" equivalent for a #8.

Ah, and there was m e thinking I could just skim read th e list, maybe a m oderately hum orous cynical rephrase of that heading
is in order:
"We've writte n a list of all the explosives we found in our Junior Encyclopedia of Science but we just can't ke ep up with the
revo lutionary new explosive designs th ought up in The Forum, so the list is just for show really. You aren't allowed to own
anything we don't like the sou nd of. So there!"
Anyway, in the dinitronapthale ne thread Hystrix gave this data for pure dinitronap thalene:
"VoD is 1150 m /s @ 1 g/ccm and it gives 100 ml in Trautzl's test."
Other m embers have highlighted that it is difficult to de t o n a t e a l o n e a n d s o i s o f t e n u s e d i n c o m p o s i t i o n s .
I a s s u m e if it cannot be detonated by a #8 cap or equivalent then one does not have to worry abo ut legalities? After all, AN
can be detonated straight with enough booster and you don't ne ed a license for that...
...yet. (Austrialians)
Efraim_barkbit January 19th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 3 1 P M

" $ 1 0 , 0 0 0 . 0 0 " - O n e m illion dollars? Ten thousand point zero zero dollars?
I h a t e w h e n p e o p l e u s e c o m m as and/or points when writing num bers (if its not used as a decimal point). W HY CONFUSE IT?
Sure, most o f the tim e its clear what is m eant anyways, but I find it about equally annoying as posts wich h ave been written
without capitalization.
chemwarrior January 19th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 0 7 P M

Its ten thousand. One million would have been- $1,000,000.00
Efraim_barkbit-
I have followed the com mon conventio ns for denoting a n am mount of US currency- Sorry if it's not im mediately transparent.
Y e s , t e n t h o u s a n d U S Dollars... That covered licenses, buying, shipping and setting in place a couple of 40' high cube cargo
containers, lining with wood, epoxy painting any metal that couldn't be covered with wood, building shelvein g, fabricating and
installing locking devices, earth m oving to create a site, several truckloads of gravel for th e pad and a short access ram p,
tim bers to prevent se ttling & keep them off the ground, and rent paid in advance for the physical site for a couple of years. If
we'd had to buy the land it would have been a lot more. The lice nse is generaly the LEAST o f y o u r e x p e n s e s .
Dave Angel-
Re-read sub part "B" again... It also says it's included if it's INTENDED USE is for a blasting agent. That's how com e a farm er
d o e s n ' t h a v e to keep his AN fertilizer in a m a g a z i n e b u t a b l a s t e r d o e s .
And it looks like the standard cap is different for the definition o f blasting agent as well! I'm going to have to re-read this
a g a i n m yself. I know my way around the fireworks part pretty we ll-
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

Now I remem ber why I hate la ws: subsections, clauses, terms and definitions etc etc, it's not the law itself, it's the way they are
l a i d o u t . I m i g h t h a v e g u e s s e d t h a t t h e y h a v e e v e r y a n g l e c o v e r e d s o m e how, thanks for reading up on it Bert, I think I'll stick
to reading chemistry.
I'd still like to see if pure DNN would be legally classified as an explosive, though they pro bably ha ve a 'subsection 23,
paragraph A' bit saying that it is. Som ewhere.
Skean Dhu January 19th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 3 4 P M

Bert while I agree tha t it will be cheaper to be legal and get searched rather than illegal and searched . Certainly if you're go ing
to create public displays and store m assive amounts of fire work s you wa nt to be on the legal side. Howeve r the general
population of the forum wishs to use HE's for rather 'questionable' reasons and I'm guessing that if you plan to use anything
that you are storing in your magazine you will have to/ would want to clear it with your sheriff since loud boom s this day and
age don't go unnoticed.
Now I'm not saying it isn't a bad idea to get everything ship-shape but if you're only planning on m a k i n g a f e w g r a m s h e r e a n d
there with the ocasional kg sized charge it just dosen't seem worth it., and if the shit hits the fan who do you think will be on e
of the first people contacted with questions about a window rattling boom ? even if you had nothing to do with it.
Also the rock et hobbyist need only apply for licensing if the rocket grain is going to be gre ater than 62gram s
W hen I read the form s they didn't go into detail about who to contact should you actually wish to u se the contents of your
m a g a z i n e . I a s s u m e you would just talk to the local PD and FD. Perhaps you would know since you s e e m to have connection s
o f s o m e sort with a fireworks/blasting company
I in no way wish to im ply that it was a stupid question, it is just one that could have easily been an swered had he ta k e n a
couple minutes to search the web.

Y e a h , I k n o w - M o s t p e o p l e h e re will never really feel the need to get fully legal, in fact it would tak e a w a y s o m e o f t h e f u n f o r
m any. But th e guy DID specificaly ask what he'd have to do to be m anufacturing legaly-
You just haven't experienced the full range untill you've told a bunch of cops and firem en what THEY should be doing while
Y O U shoot explosives. Mwahahahaha!

Now that could be a p ayoff after spend ing $500.
*dreamy fade in*
Fourth of July launching 2"she lls, rom an candle s, and various other "sm all" firewo r k s . T h e C o p s p u ll up to bitch at you and
t h e n y o u s l a m your BATF licne se in their face
*pictures 'Go od will hunting scene"*
you: "Do you like apples officer?"
officer:"..... yea, i guess so..."
you:" how do you like them apples"*whips out paperwork*
Although I doubt it would go like that but hey, wouldn't it be great if it did.
So I was correct in assum ing that you have to tell them your gonna be blowing sh it up ?
::EDIT:: gram m a r

I t d e p e n d s o n where. In som e states, you have to get a perm it for each event (usualy from the municipality or county), in
s o m e you have to show proof of insurance as well. Insurance is EXPENSIVE.

There are far fewer public fireworks displays in this coun try due to rising insurance costs. All thanks to no-win-no-fee, "where
there's blame, there's a claim!" litigation.

Up to $10,000.00 1.3 shows a re somewhere be tween $600.00 - $1,000.00 just for the insurance. For an over $10,000.00 cost
show the insurance varies with the size of the show & se tting. W e're looking at starting a "captive insurance" (industry owned ,
not for profit) just for the pyro technic industry.
Blackhawk January 20th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 0 4 P M

Insurance is the big problem we are having at the rocketry club we attend, seeing as the whole 'fast m oving, scary noise and
flam e' thing spooks a lot of com p a n i e s i n t o c h a r g i n g i n s a n e p r i c e s . T h e r e h a s n e v e r b e e n a d e a t h f r o m com mercial rocketry (I
think anyway) and there has never been an injury at our club, and yet they would try and charge us more than motorbike or car
insurance, which is a hell of a lot m o r e d a n g e r o u s .

After we kill all the lawyers, let's start stringing up the insurance executives...
Flake2m January 21st, 2004, 10:47 AM

Insurance prices are becoming rediculous. If I got 5c for every joke that was made about insurance prices I would have enough
m oney to pay for a premium.
The surf club I use to go to, rock clim bing, rocketry and sailing have becom e out of my reach partly because the m e m b e r s h i p
fees are so high. So now I just on m y ass downloading pr0n and warez.
No wonder Australian and Am erican kids are getting so fat.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > little known facts o f Napalm
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I didn't know whether to put this in pyrotechnics or battlefield chem istry, so I decided to play it safe and put it in the water
cooler. One of the interesting attributes of napalm is that it does not need to burn you to kll you. Because of the heat and
leng th at which it can burn, na palm can suck all the oxygen out of the air around where it ignites, and replace it with poison
g a s ( l i k e c a r b o n m o n o x i d e ) . T h e p r o b l e m w i t h t h i s i s t h e a m ount needed to be effective, and how to distribute that. So m y
question is, hypothetically, would this technique be of any use to som e o n e o u t s i d e the m ilitary? Could a person or group of
people construct a de vice capable of say, detonating a rocket over a house or building, killing those inside without even having
to burn it to the ground?
mongo blongo January 20th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 5 0 P M

Dude, any kind of fire will use up and displace oxygen in that way. It's going to be a very big rocket to get that m u c h n a p a l m
inside it. Hardly practicle. It was a good idea not posting this anywhere else.
ossassin January 20th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 4 6 P M

Try searching for threads on a tom ized particle explosions. The military uses these to "suck the oxygen out of the air." It's
basically like when yo u light fine particles of flour in the air...WO OSH! :)
Tended Tripod January 20th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 5 7 P M

I suggest searching for FAE (fuel air explosion). While it's the same thing FAE seems to be a m uch m ore comm o n t e r m . T h i s
way you won't com e asking for help if you don't find very much with atom ized particle explosion.

Dude, any kind of fire will use up and displace oxygen in that way. It's going to be a very big rocket to get that m u c h n a p a l m
inside it. I know any fire uses up oxygen, but napalm consum e s m ore th a n s o m ething like wood. It burns hotter an d
consumes more rapidly. Also, the point is that you don't have to g e t t h e n a p a l m inside the building. In WW II, they found
b u n k e r s w h e r e n a p a l m bom bs had exploded nearby or overhead. Everyone inside would b e dead, but not a hair was singed.
T h e s c e n e l o o k e d s i m ilar to the afterm a t h o f a v o l c a n o , w h e r e t h e a s h a n d p o i s o n f r o m o x y g e n f r e e c a r b o n m o n o x i d e r i d d e n
air kill more than lava and fire.Try searching for threads on atom ized particle exp losions. W i l l d o . T h a n k s .
static_firefly January 21st, 2004, 02:43 AM

Yeah apperently FAEs can be set off over a bunker to suck the a ir out and kill everyone inside.
gliper January 21st, 2004, 05:55 AM

any gas is just a bunch of atom s, nearly all of the flam a b l e o n e s a r e p o i s o n i s i n s u f i s i a n t q u a n t i t i e s a n d e a s y e s t t o s p r e d .
Blackhawk January 21st, 2004, 07:41 AM

That wasn't the point though, the idea is that the explosion would use all the oxygen in the area a nd the people wo uld
suffocate. I have seen this technique used to stop oil fires in the Middle East, where they use a bulldozer type vehicle with a
very long arm to place a box filled with HE's into the plu me of th e flam e , o n c e d e t o n a t e d i t s u c k s o u t a l l t h e O x y g e n a n d t h e
fire goes out. I'm not sure how practicle the idea would be for killing people though, wouldn't the intense heat of the FAE or
napalm just kill them before the oxygen deprivation?
jackhammer January 21st, 2004, 03:27 PM

I'm not sure how practicle the idea would be for killing people though, wouldn't the intense heat of the FAE or napalm just kill
them before the oxygen deprivation? It might, but if they had any good kind of cover their chances of surviving the heat would
be pretty good. Thanks for the FAE tip.
vulture January 21st, 2004, 04:31 PM

The oil well fires were not put out of oxygen shortage by the explosion, merely by the effect of the shockwave. Just like you
need to blow harder to put out a bigge r candle than a sm aller one.
The massive air blast diluted the hot com bustion gases very fast, m aking it unab le to reach the ignition tem perature of the
fresh oil.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > CAD Program
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Miller January 20th, 2004, 09:58 PM

Well I have been trying to find an alternative CAD program to AutoCAD, and I prefer this alternative to be free. Thus far I have only come across Qcad, which I thought was
one of the stupidist CADs I have ever worked with, I Just downloaded a program called tinyCAD. It is not as good as autoCAD, but it is free (both these programs are available
at www.sourceforge.com) There are many other computer aided drafting programs out there, but they all seem to be fof Linux (My Linux box is in sore shape right now). I also
came across this site: http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm If any one else knows of a good CAD program you can post it here.
tom haggen January 22nd, 2004, 02:02 AM

Personally I'm quite fond of Solidworks. Unfortunetly for you it is not a free program. If you ever get the chance of working with this software I highly recommend it.
Tuatara January 22nd, 2004, 04:35 AM

"Not free" gets understatement of the month. Solidworks is something like US$10,000 per seat!
Still, sly copies are not unheard of ;) , and it is damn good (once you figure out how to use it).
Blackhawk January 22nd, 2004, 04:40 AM

I have 3D studios MAX version3, more of a CGI program but I sometimes use it for CAD, nice bit of programin, I got hacked version curtesy of 'Drink Or Die'. I may upload it
sometime if people want it, it is around 300Mb in .rar format IIRC.

I had 3d studio but I had a hard time learning it so I gave up. It sucks cause I really wanted to do some cool computer animations.
sti571 January 31st, 2004, 05:56 PM

You might want to have a look at:
DESI-III (freeware) 2D CAD system
h*tp://users.telenet.be/desi-iii/index.html
Jacks Complete February 1st, 2004, 07:50 PM

Everyone,
I think that for a lot of the ideas we discuss on the boards, we need to agree on a standard 2D and 3D CAD package.
If we are going to be designing, for example, a RogueSci LMG, we need to be able to share files as well as ideas, so that we can work on them and improve them- sort of like
an open-source project.
What do we think? Or should we just stick with the limits of .DXF?
I think some form of CAD plans for the improvised weapons would be a great asset.
snuk5 February 13th, 2004, 03:35 PM

I agree that its a good idea to stick to one particular C AD format.
The standard in CAD is AutoCADs DXF.
But this does not mean that we all have to work in that program; other CAD programs such as TurboCad will both save and open DXF format. (Their native format is TCW.)
I have both AutoCAD and TurboCad (and some totally useless stuff as well).
Turbocad Professional V9 is rather more user friendly.
In fact its the only thing I use.
You can buy it or you can download it for a try-buy:

http://wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/bws/bws_52/TurboCADProfessionalv9Trial.exe (a bit over 90 megs big)
If you want to use it until Kingdom Come for free, use a little crack. (Get it from
http://www.cracks.am/main.html.
tom haggen February 13th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Solidworks sets the standard in 3d drafting. Thats what we should be using, and since I'm extremely efficient at using that program thats my vote. I'm trying to get an ftp set
up, ;)
festergrump February 14th, 2004, 05:20 AM

[QUOTE=snuk5]The standard in CAD is AutoCADs DXF.
I would have to agree, having used several CAD programs to design doors and windows over the last few years. DXF is supported by many programs and can be easily
modified to DWG or DWT formats simply by opening and using the "save_as" feature.
Personally, AUTOCAD 2000 is what I prefer because it's what was available to me, but is an outdated system.
Since were talking about spreading a drawing out on the proverbial "table" for all to see/understand/modify/discuss, what's important is a format that is of course adaptable to
many various programs (freeware/shareware/bought, right?). DXF, its seems, would be the way to go from my expirience. Most "user friendly" programs support this and also
most shareware/freeware.
Note: Being a "Benchman" at a reputable millshop with good computer skills can help you aquire a very workable copy of Autocad... :D It really sucks when your IT guy ain't
around and the program "accidently" crashes. You might have to "reinstall" it (oops.. I mean burn a copy for yourself). ;)
snuk5 February 15th, 2004, 03:45 AM

Ja perhaps if wed want to exchange some 3D stuff, I might second the motion to use Solid works. No problem for me as I have Solid Works 2001 Plus myself.
But to what end I ask what would we like to submit in 3D onto this site that cannot be given easier in 2D and in a more accessible format?
Methinks that technical drawings should be the primary CAD subject matter on this forum and these should be in 2D and DXF.
Interestingly I drew a preliminary drawing of a hi-temp gas-powered furnace in TurboCAD; it saved in TCW as 32 KB and in DXF as 225 KB - same drawing, different format.

Well if I would be willing to accept dxf as the format shared by the forum. fester grump, I'm with you when it comes to prefering acad 2000, I have worked with 2002, and
2004 but I still like 2000 the best. Well I use 2000i but theres not but difference between 2000i and 2000.
phyrelord March 3rd, 2004, 07:12 PM

kazaa and download it that is the best way in my opinion i have Autocad R14 but plan on downloading 2004 from kazaa. This is pointless however seeing i can use it any time
at school. If you need the kazaa lite exe file i have it somewhere i can send it to you. P2P rocks!!!
Jacks Complete March 3rd, 2004, 08:41 PM

Ok, so Solidworks for 3D and (AutoCAD) DXF for 2D, then.
An interesting development in the near future are machines that will let you create a solid object from a CAD model by addition (built up from liquid, powder, ultrasound
welding tape layers, etc.), rather than subtraction (milling, lathework, drilling, etc.). Stereolithography, direct metal sintering, plastic extrusion (Solidworks) and so on will let us
all build our designs at home. Just think how cool it would be to hear about a great design on here, download the file, spent 40 on the filler, and have a working model two
days later!
Of course, we need to prepare for this day, and have lots of nice 3D CAD models ready! :)
zaibatsu March 3rd, 2004, 08:52 PM

I've got both Autocad 2004 and Solidworks (not sure of the version) so I'm set then :)
I saw a program on television where they were at Leicester university, and using resin and a lazer, they built up a model layer by layer. I assume that's the stereolithography
(sounds like it) you're talking about, it's just amazing to watch. Also the models built up from layers of paper are also interesting, but I feel they may be a little out of our
league. CNC machining, while expensive, would allow you to download a 3d model and create something from a block of steel/al, and they're a little more affordable :)
Jacks Complete March 4th, 2004, 05:41 AM

Ah, yes, but CAD/CAM is very much more difficult and costly.
Something like Direct Metal Sintering (where you melt a steel or other metal based powder with a laser) can do an almost infinite level of complexity without worries about
cutting paths, swarf removal, head collisions, etc. and you can embed things into the "solid" block of steel. Plus, you need no skills to make it happen, except for the machine
and the model, it runs unattended, and is almost silent!
Are you sure it was Leicester and not Loughborough University? Lboro has a big department, with some of the most advanced machines in the world, and a very wide range.
In other news, http://wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/bws/bws_52/TurboCADProfessionalv9Trial.exe doesn't work. The site is gone, it seems it was taken down mid download, as I
got half of the 90 meg, then it failed. I stopped it, tried again, and got only a few meg overnight. :( Looked at the base URL this morning, and there is nothing there. A search
got no returns of relevance.
I suspect the crack won't work on the 15 day trial from imsi.com
http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0002.23/download/2004-0c21e21c5bef70e65ae322fdd4316f65-3
TW10 4000 9020 4008 -- serial number

0949-BA9B-5168-575D -- 15-day trial activation
If it doesn't work, you can register for a download at http://www.turbocad.com/
If anyone knows where either the new crack or the older version (9.0) live, please post details.
zaibatsu March 4th, 2004, 07:58 AM

Jacks Complete:
CAM expensive? Yes, relatively, but I think they've got to be cheaper than other methods, but that's just because they seem so cool :)
Yes I am talking about Leicester, I think Leicester De Monfort. I know loughborough is an excellent place for engineering, I have a couple of friends who went there.
If you want, I'll see about getting another streamloader account to distribute Solidworks and Autocad 2004.
festergrump March 6th, 2004, 06:05 PM

Surely, I've been in the wrong business for WAY too long! :) The millshops I have worked at can't seem to afford to drop a couple hundred thousand on a decent CNC machine,
let alone what you folks are looking forward to. (tell me where to send my resume, I'll relocate!!!) ;)
Let me just say I look forward to being able to afford a good drill-press, milling machine, and a small lathe to put in my garage... I'll do all the precise work by hand, and have
nobody to ask me what I'm working on in my lunch hour.
Plans are another story, however, and if they're in a format which can be read by all who care to, I feel confident I could adapt them to my needs.
Tom Haggen, I feel like a loner saving all the stuff I design in .DWG, but that's what works best for me in ACAD 2000. I've also tried newer versions and don't care for them as
much, either. The thing I like about Autocad mostly, though is it recognizes .DWG, .DXF, R14, R13,Lt 95-98, ect... This is why I recommended it. I've been looking for a
workable copy to distribute (can't have any strings attached to me or my workplace) but haven't had any luck as of yet. If and when I do I will be sure to post a link.
If I weren't limited to a 56k connection, I'd be on Kazaa right now looking for a dist-able copy to share... :(
So... who's taking the votes, anyway? What's the verdict? The format is what's important, really, not the program.
s9ar7acu3 March 7th, 2004, 12:55 AM

I have Solidworks 2004 (all 3 cd's), I am attempting to upload it now.
Jacks Complete March 17th, 2004, 04:14 PM

festergrump,
>Ok, so Solidworks for 3D and (AutoCAD) DXF for 2D, then.
I said it a bit further up!
s9ar7acu3,
given the "issues" with the FTP at the moment, where are you uploading to? Free streamloader accounts can't download more than 10Mb files. I could rig something up to let
people download from a webserver for a while. It's only 50Kb a second, but faster than dial-up!
I have an old copy of AutoCAD 14(?) and no solidworks, so I need both! Also, we need codes/cracks, as well as some kind of idea as to what we are going to be drawing, and
the ability to draw! Does anyone know of a good tutorial for Solidworks, and for 3D work in AutoCAD? I am pretty good at 2D AutoCAD, and will happily write some basic notes
if nothing better is available.
Bong March 21st, 2004, 10:42 AM

I have been using a CAD called VectorWorks. It runs pretty well and it does not require really good graphics card for your computer. The price for the program is roughly
$400AUS (student price). It is also called MiniCAD. I cannot remember the address for the website, but it should not be hard to found on Yahoo, if you simply type
"vectorworks" or "minicad".
MightyQuinn March 30th, 2004, 04:50 PM

Might be a bit late with this, I have a copy of AutoCAD 2004 I recently aquired.
I can make it available should you like me too.....
Email or PM me.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nitro Acid HNO3
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Nitro Tola January 20th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 0 : 0 1 P M

Nitric Acid, needed for the nitration of m o s t h i g h e x p l o s i v e s , i s o n e o f t h e m o s t p r i z e d p o s s e t i o n s o f h o m e chem ists...but
where the fook can i get som e???
Sources of HNO 3 thus far.

- 2KNO 3+H2SO4->2HNO3+K2SO4 (Need confirmation)
- Accuiring a dilute sa mple and then concentrating it.
- Large chem ical companys
- Steal the shit from school (LO L)
I f a n y o n e h a s any com ments or ideas about obtaining nitric acid please add to this thread. One th i n g t h o u g h , I a m u n a b l e t o
buy HNO3 of the shelf.. They m ake it hard to g et anything remo tly dangerous in O z. Thanks Everyone:p

You're kidding right?
Acco rding to your sig line, you like chem istry...your post however, indicates som ething entirely different.
Stealing shit from school is just great. You'll im press your friends and you'll be able to m ake explosives! Yeah! Are you tuff or
not??!! d00d!!!
USE THE FUC KING SEARCH ENGINE!

And while you're about it-
USE THE FUC KING SPELLING & GRAMMAR CHECK!
Arkangel January 21st, 2004, 04:49 PM

And while you're at it, I wonde r if you even LOO KED in the entire SECTION we have devoted to Nitric acid?
zeocrash January 21st, 2004, 05:19 PM

hm m,
lightning makes nitric oxide. you can make nitric acid from this.
here's a sim p l e s t e p b y s t e p g u i d e ,
you will need :
* a l o n g m etal pole, copper, gold or platinum work best but m ost m etals will do
* a bucket of salt water
* a long length of electrical ca ble
firstly fix and end of electrical cable into the ground, tie the other end to your foot
secondly wait for a thunder storm, when one com es along clim b to the top of the tallest point in the neighbourhood with a large
m etal pole.
thirdly pour the bucket of salt water over your head
hold the pole as high in the air as you can and wait for your acid :D
Nitro Tola January 21st, 2004, 07:39 PM

Sorry guys, I DID look in the section on nitric acid and its all about concentrating it and those people are just able to "buy it".
Nice one with the lightning zeocrash.. sorry if i sounded like a dumbass but it gets quiet frustrating trying to experim ent when
chemicals are so hard to obtain. Again sorry for the dum b thread, ill put alot more thought into what i write next tim e (if i do nt
get banned by the mods).

P l e a se capitalize the word "I".
Go re-read the Forum FAQ (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /misc.php?s=&action=faq)
Then read NEWBIES! The Forum s' unwritten rules...written down. (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?
s=&threadid=2774)
Follow that with a look at Banned for Life! (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/forum d i s p l a y . p h p ?

s=&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=&forum i d = 1 6 & p a g e n u m ber=1&daysprune=1000&x=4&y=8)
And then download NBK2000's PDF. The Nitric acid proce dure is in there. If you do n't know who NBK2000 is- You will soon
enough.
Hang-Man January 21st, 2004, 10:57 PM

O n c e y o u re done with Berts s u ggestion s, I reco m m e n d you:
1. Call you're ISP and cancel your internet service.
2. Format your com puter.
3. Get a lobotom y.

Dudes! what more can I say? IM SORR Y and im trying to get it d eleted!!!!!!!!!!!! Fair go! At least im adm itting it was a terrible
m istake! and Ill neve r do it again!
Rhadon January 22nd, 2004, 08:45 AM

Okay, I'll close this thread. Use your chance!
Nitro Tola January 23rd , 2004, 03:46 AM

T h a n k y o u R h a d o n , y o u h a v e m y upm ost respect and gratitude.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C ant Find them ....
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green beret January 21st, 2004, 01:10 AM

I Ha ve been looking for the following MP3s on google for a while and cant find them :
All o lder reco rdings I'm after, not live versions.
Mr.C rowley
No more tears
Bark at the moon
Junkie
Crazy train
Shot in the d ark
Also any other ones, but those mostly.
Every time I find a site that offers them, it sends me back to another site, then that site does the sam e, its unbelievably
frustrating does anyone have these or know wh ere I can get them , I have an O zzy CD but its recorded live at budokan and I
dont like hearing an audience, especially a Jap one, and I dont want to buy another CD if I can help it because I would need to
get a few to get all th e s e s o n g s .
I f a n y o n e c a n h e l p m e, a big thankyou to you.
Lil_Guppy January 21st, 2004, 01:31 AM

Try searching for them with WinMX (http://www.winmx.com/). I found a few of the ones you mentio ned there...
tom haggen January 21st, 2004, 01:46 AM

I could em ail you a copy of some file sharing software. You could download those s o n g s i n a f l a s h .
zeocrash January 21st, 2004, 08:00 AM

i have the definitve ozzy album (i think that's what it's called) its a 2 CD album with all those tracks on, i'll encode it tonight if
you want
wrench352 January 21st, 2004, 11:25 AM

Mr C rowley,72 sources,No m ore tears,63 source s,Bark at the moon 20 sources,junkie 17 sources,Crazy train 372 ( :O ! )
sources,Shot in the dark 102 sources.
Kazaalite++,priceless
green beret January 22nd, 2004, 08:21 PM

Thanks all. Zeocrash, that would be ve ry greatly appreciated. :)
ossassin January 22nd, 2004, 08:37 PM

You could always try Kazaa. I have inside info. that says that they only go after people with 500+ songs.
Blackhawk January 22nd, 2004, 09:09 PM

O r y o u c o u l d g e t k a z a a l i t e + + a s s u g g e s t e d a b ove by W rench35 2 ("Kaza alite++,priceless") which stops anyone from getting a
list of what files you are sharing.
Mumble January 22nd, 2004, 11:31 PM

Is that 500+ songs period, or 500+ songe shared. I have 450ish on Kazaa, and probably another 2 to 3 thousand elsewhere.
Y e s , I a m addicted, but still buy the cd's generally if it's worth it.
I ' v e p e r s o n a l l y a l r e a d y g o t t e n o n e f r o m a m o v i e c o m p a ny for a pirated movie I was sharing. Mallrats.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Chlorine+Alcohol+12 year olds=hurt
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Koviack January 21st, 2004, 10:30 AM

The video speaks for itself...
http://www.felsonhomes.com/2003122514.wmv
if that link doesn't work try these
http://pya.cc/pyaimg/img/2003122514.wmv
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/bottlebomb.wmv

Has been posted before a few weeks ago...
Please UTFSE before posting.
fire vs. water January 21st, 2004, 05:33 PM

3rd time its posted....
but I don't think anyone who has something funny\amusing for us to see will search, because it's not a question or something that has been answered before...
frogfot January 22nd, 2004, 09:11 AM

Maby this will become a classic... like that Star Wars kid though it have nothing to do with explosives :p
Heres Star Wars kid: http://www.starwarskid.com (I sugges to first read intro and look the original movie)

Here's a little something that you all might enjoy-
Massive vinegar baking soda explosion! (http://www.theonion.com/onion3629/bill_nye_killed.html)
hodio January 22nd, 2004, 04:13 PM

Do anyone know what happened to the clorine-alcool kid...I mean is he still alive,lost of the hand,lost of the arm or he just a luky fool ass?
Dont take it too serius but anyway was a quite big boom,wan't it?
Koviack January 29th, 2004, 10:00 AM

Heh, that bill nye thing doesn't sound real, I never saw anything like that on the news..
"William "Bill" Nye was killed Monday in a massive vinegar/baking-soda explosion that destroyed an entire city block"
"But something went horribly wrong and the resulting explosion destroyed the tank, the truck, the balloon, and Nye himself. We're still searching for his body and bow tie."
"Did you know that if you put all of your body's blood vessels in a line, they would stretch around the Earth two and a half times?" Anspaugh added. "Well, now you know."

Well obviously :P
I have seen that one before, where on earth did you come by it?
ossassin January 30th, 2004, 01:23 AM

I feel sorry for those poor kids. There was a time when I would have tried something like that. Don't forget that the Anarchist Cookbook is the only resource that
many...aspiring pyrotechnicians can find. It took me about a year of searching before I stumbled onto the forum.

I don't care how many times this has been posted, everytime I watch I get a feeling of joy in the pit of my stomach and I like it.
tiac03 February 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM

As soon as I heard El capitain with the video camera tell his buddy to "screw it on tight and shake it well/ turn it upside down" I started laughing. I liked the foreshadowing at
the begining too (he did say "it's not too dangerous" right?). The problem with these morons isn't the fact that they don't have better places to find info, but that they lack all
common sense. anyone who doesn't realize that shaking isn't needed especially if you are planning to throw it, deserves what they get.
Too bad though, I don't think he got f*cked up that much. from the vid most of the spray went away from him, probably leaving him with the feeling of high fiving the mirror
of a moving bus.
personally I say stay away from shit that you can't control once mixed. As long as there is a fuse burning you know how much time you have...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 2nd newbie kno3 question
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This one's less technical. I've got my KNO3 , but now I'm wondering what I could do with it. I had some ideas that I thought
m a y b e p e o p l e c o u l d c o m m ent on, if they have the time to help out. The first was to add it into a thermite m ix of m a g n e s i u m
and iron oxide. The second was to dissolve it into acetone and mix it with petroleum jelly for a low power detonator. The third
was to use it to m ake nitric acid by mixing with sulfuric acid. I can do all of these things, so I'm not looking for which idea is
best, I'm just trying to make sure none are so stupid I should just give them u p , a n d i f a n y o n e e l s e h a s a n y o t h e r " g o o d "
idea s for a starting chemist. T h a n k s
Dave Angel January 21st, 2004, 10:13 PM

T o b e q u i t e h o n e s t , I d o n ' t s e e aceton e, petroleum jelly and KNO3 m a k i n g a d e t o n a t o r . . . u n l e s s I ' m m i s s i n g s o m eth in g h ere?
There are plenty of fun things to do with potassium nitrate just use the search engine and the tools of chemistry to guide yo u!

KNO3 sulphur and Charcoal are used to make gunpowder... Just thought you m ight like th a t o n e : - )

T o b e q u i t e h o n e s t , I d o n ' t s e e aceton e, petroleum jelly and KNO3 m a k i n g a d e t o n a t o r . . . u n l e s s I ' m m i s s i n g s o m eth in g h ere?
I was hoping that it would have sim ilar properties to the ol' KClO 4 m i x . G u e s s n o t t h o u g h . I ' l l k e e p l o o k i n g a r o u n d .
Blackhawk January 22nd, 2004, 12:40 AM

Y o u a r e a f u c k i n g m o ron, you have KNO 3 but you don't know what to do with it. SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH
SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH: And when you have done that eat a LO T
to m ake sure you can never reproduce and you're done. Where the hell did you get that KNO3/petrolium je lly deton ator idea
from , 300 ways to m ake your own KY Jelly? KNO3/NM will detonate, but I'm not sure straig ht KNO3 will, and even if it did
adding aceto ne and petrolium jelly would m ake it harde r, it would be worse to detonate than straig ht AN so you couldn't call it a
detonator. Let m e guess you were going to detonate it with a sparkler >:-(
Bert January 22nd, 2004, 01:17 AM

If you don't know what can be done with it, why did you want to m ake it? Therm ites don't need any additional oxidizers. KNO 3
d o e s n ' t d e t o n a t e o r f o r m a d e t o n a b l e m ixture with VASELINE. Yo u could in fact use it to make nitric acid. But then you'd just be
back asking what to with THAT-
Shit, just go m a k e s o m e b l a c k p o w d e r a n d b e h a p p y .
tom haggen January 22nd, 2004, 01:52 AM

I'm not going to attem ped to synthesize nitric acid from KNO 3 untill I have som e vacum d istillation equipm ent. I want high
concentrations.
Boomer January 22nd, 2004, 01:00 PM

It works at normal pressure too. Just use twice the required m inimum SA and heat real slowly. And stop early! W ith this acid I
got >90% nitration yields, so it cant be that bad.
infernal January 23rd , 2004, 01:48 AM

I m h o p i n g s o m eone can answer this question... There was a thread that was m ore on track with this subject, but I still fear for
m y digital so ul postin g outside this forum . The thread I was inte rested in is located here;
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1031&highlight=potassium+nitrate
Basically m y question is regarding a brand of fertilizer n a m e d " H Y F A " a n d i s 1 5 - 0 - 4 6 . I h a ve found it in gre e n h o u s e g r a d e a n d

is water soluble. I am wondering if this grade / brand will work properly for BP mixtures, or should I seek something e l s e ? T h e
price is rathe r g o o d a t 3 1 . 9 5 C D N f o r 2 5 K G b a g s s o h o p e f u l l y t h i s i s t h e s t u f f I n e e d . P l e a s e n o t e I h a v e f o u n d n o t h i n g o n l i n e
in regards to this brand, and have even tried to find an MSDS sheet for it.
I ' v e r e a d a n d b e e n t o l d t i m e a n d t i m e a g a i n t h a t t h e p r o p e r s t u f f i s 1 3 - 0 - 4 6 s o i m not sure what effect having 2% extra

nitrogen will m a k e .
W hat are ways I can tell if this is a pure substance that will work well in a BP m ixture. I would hate to keep buying different
products (and ultim atly wasting m oney) on KN0 3 that is not pure. I am aware of the KNO3 + SUGAR flame test, but im h o p i n g
there is some sort of visual characteristics that might aid in my search for proper chem s.
After staring at the button for a few m o m ents, I reluctantly subm it.... :)
Nitro Tola January 23rd , 2004, 03:51 AM

B o o m er, you honestly got 90%+, thats a great effort! I believed that you did require the vacum e distillation equipm ent to get
even close to that purity? You have proven m e wrong.
Anthony January 23rd , 2 0 0 4 , 1 2 : 3 6 P M

You can get that kind of purity using only som e hot water, a jug, and a p lastic bag.
tom haggen January 23rd , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 2 4 P M

W ouldn't you need some tubing also? How would you condense the HN03 vapor?
kingspaz January 24th , 2004, 11:06 AM

search the HNO 3 section....:ro lleyes:

I believe it was BrainFever's am azingly sim ple technique for
producing wh ite nitric acid using ice packed conical plastic
sheets and 2 beakers. The critical factor is temperature
control. I'm going to try this 1 m yself. I have 2 hot plates
I can use. One of the m tops out at 65C, so it may be
perfect for th is application. In the past I've use d retorts.
Back on topic - Infernal, that HYFA brand sounds pretty close

to what you're looking for. Like you I can't even find an MSDS
reference online but using the atomic weights of the atoms
involved this is what I cam e up with:
Atomic weigh ts: K = 39.083, N = 14.00 674, O = 15.9994

KNO3 = 101.08794 2*KNO3 = 202.175 88 K2O = 94.165 4
K2O = 94.1654 / 202.17588 = 46.57 %

N = 14.00674 / 101.08794 = 13.85 %
Potassium is usually represented as available K2O.
I'd say you're on the right track. Uses for KNO3 - BP, HNO3
production, KNO3/sugar smoke and rocket fuel compositions.
There are m any uses for this versatile com p o u n d a n d a s
others have pointed out - use the search engin e !

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > NH4ClO4 Based eplosives ?
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krickman January 21st, 2004, 04:39 PM

I h a v e f o u n d a recepie of som e s o r t o f e x p l o s i v e t h a t v o u l d h a v e b e e n u sed in m ines during W W 2 when other explosivs where
hard to find. It consists of: 78 % NH4ClO4, 16% parrafin and 6 % Alum i n i u m .
So i was thinking about changing the formula to increase its power so i started to calculate a new formulation based on the first
one.
For now the form ula lock like this: 50,5% NH4C lO4(s) + 26,3% CH3NO2 + 23,2% Al(s)
And maby some aditives like Fe2O3 (as a catalyt to increase spead) or something else to get higer/lower sensability/power.
The next step would be to red uce the Al conten t to add som e parrafin/va sseline insted, to m ake it into a plastic explosive.
I f a n y o n e h a v e e x p e r i e n s e o f s i m ilar compounds it would be of intrest to h e a r w a t h y o u h a v e t o s a y a b o u t s p e a d a n d

sensability of such mixtures.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Diesel
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atr January 21st, 2004, 08:33 PM

Hypothetically speaking , let's say there is this diesel engine attached to a large piece of machinery with a fuel tank of about 100 gallons . Let's say that the owner of said
equipment could give a flying fu*k if you or your neighbours ever sleep again and there is absolutely no dealing with him . Between the fuel tank and the engine there are
various filters to remove impurities . Spraying ether (diesel quickstart) into the air intake would sieze it up solid so that's one possibility . Question is , what could be poured into
the fuel tank that would get through the filters , blow or sieze the engine , leaveing little or no trace ? Of course , this is for educational purposes only in a hypothetical situation
. I know the ether spray will work but in order to use that method one would have to expose themself while spraying for up to one minute . The fuel tank is on the opposite
side with good access and no exposure .

If you physically want to WRECK the engine, use the thermite reaction to literally "melt" vital parts of the machinery.
James January 22nd, 2004, 01:58 AM

One could look here (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3071) for inspiration. I suppose one could also try simply switching such a thing off and
take steps to ensure no one turned it back on. :) SWIY would want to take precautions that nothing were ever traced back of course.
Anthony January 22nd, 2004, 02:23 PM

What is it with newbies and fucking thermite? Ultimate "cure all" or what?
chemwarrior January 22nd, 2004, 04:27 PM

Anthony, its just so pretty... must watch it burn... burn.... *noob kewl catches on fire and dies from having tried to get too close*
Oh, so so sad.... hehe, thermites are just a nice little way to remove the total morons from our hobby :)
ossassin January 22nd, 2004, 08:41 PM

It can be useful. It wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a little container of it with a magnesium fuse with you in some situations. It would be great at melting locks...
Blackhawk January 22nd, 2004, 09:08 PM

The problem with thermite is that it is usually useless for melting locks, seeing as most locks are metal and locking metal things. The thermite heats the lock up but the heat is
quickly transfered through the lock and the rest of the metal that it is locking and radiated away before there is any chance of it melting. You would need quite a lot of thermite
to melt a lock but by that time how would you keep the burning powder in contact with the lock if it is not laid flat along the floor anyway?
TreverSlyFox January 22nd, 2004, 09:40 PM

The most expensive part of a Diesel engine is the injectors. They're either mechanicaly controlled or if a newer engine electronicly controlled. There is one injector for each
cylinder with a fuel line going to each one. To rebuild one costs about $80 the last time I looked. To replace one is about 3 times that.
A hammer and cold chisel if applied right would leave them in such shape they couldn't be rebuilt. Over a period of time the cost would be prohibative to continue replacing
them. Maybe by that time the owner might get the message and figure out a much quieter way to produce power.
Another alternative is to place a lot of Valve Grinding compound in the oil system (4 or 5 tubes), though the filters will catch a lot of it enough should get into the system to do
some big damage over time.
Another possibility, if it's a water cooled system, is to drain the cooling system and let it over heat though most have an overheat shutdown. Course the cost to replace or clean
out a rediator every few days may get the message across. A large amount of Oat Meal or Rice should stuff it up rather well. Rice would be my first choice, it's cheap and
expands 3 times it's size. 3 or 4 lbs should do it nicely. This could also be added to the fuel tank to stuff it up too, say 10 pounds. You could also add say 5 or 6 lbs to the oil
too. It would take a major tear down to clean it all out and it may just blow the engine before he gets to it.
Finally you could "Over Power" the Diesel with Nitro Methane and burn out the pistons, though with a 100 gal tank it would take a lot of Nitro to raise the octaine rating high
enough to blow it.
Crash January 23rd, 2004, 12:36 AM

Anti-freeze or sugar water, both will seize an engine in a minute or so, brake fluid works nicely too, leaving caramel like slag in the cylinders, and requiring extenisve dismatling
and cleaning, it has also been known to cause the pistons to lock throwing 1 or many rods, or increasing compression to the point of failure, and damaging the engine to the
point where it would cost less to buy another one rather than fix it.
Ordinary water poured in the air intake (the large hose connected to a large filter apparatus) will also fuck up an engine.
Seems a little harsh to me to destroy a machine that probably cost a pretty penny because the people are night owls though. Pouring used motor oil in the exhaust would
make a huge smoke cloud and this smoke STINKS, they'll probably smell it inside the house with all the windows closed. Even if he calls the police I doubt they'll pursue the
case since nothing would be damaged. It also might be worth your while to simply call the police and complain.
Cyclonite January 23rd, 2004, 01:48 PM

Radiators are AL right? Dump some strong H2SO4 into the oil.....It wont last long...Very expensive to replace also.
Chemical_burn January 23rd, 2004, 07:53 PM

H2so4 would eat though the headgaskets long before it would seriously damage the radiator.
If it was me I would remove the rotor from the distribuitor ;) much easier than anything else and 10 to 1 it will take them forever to figure out whats wrong.
vulture January 23rd, 2004, 08:25 PM

HNO3 on the rubber cords used for power transmission...takes a while to eat through...
Dunny January 23rd, 2004, 09:04 PM

How are you going to remove the rotor from the distribuitor in a diesel engine they don't have distributor.
you could pull out the glow plugs and cut the small coils and put them back in
Skean Dhu January 23rd, 2004, 10:01 PM

Chemical burn, Diesels work by compression not electircal ignition if I'm not mistaken so you'd be hard pressed to find a distributor cap.
atr, syphon out his fuel a few times that oughta get his attention, you could either keep it and give it back after you convince him to find quieter means or you could dump it.
Also I'd imagine he would notice something is wrong if you were to take off the drive belts. Is this a power generator? could you be more specific fin its uses as this will greatly
determine the best way to get his attention. You could always take the starter motor
Blackhawk January 23rd, 2004, 11:51 PM

If it is a diesel generator, just grab it at one point, take the starter motor and replace it with a hand crank, he would likely choose the time he has it on for wisely if he has to
crank it to start it ;) He might get some exercise too.
demo January 24th, 2004, 04:45 AM

Or just blow it up, put AP on the radiator and when the car is running, it will create a lot of heat and just blow up!! boooom!!!!!
sorry for my bad english..
THErAPIST January 24th, 2004, 01:58 PM

lots and lots of petrolium jelly in the tank. petrolium jelly smokes like a bitch. Blowing it up will simply get the kid thrown in jail, and if he were to destroy it he would need
somehting a bit better than the lowly AP. Cut the hoses, play with any valves you can find. put liquid candle wax in the tank. you can get a gallon of it for like $5 at wal-mart.
take the filter off, and put a piece of rubber over the intake hole (a few condoms or something) then put the filter back on. they wont know why it suddenly stopped working.
its kinda hard for the thing to work when it cant get air. hell.. put a piece of a wooden dowel in the intake hole anf then put the filter back on. doesnt really damage it, takes
forever to find, takes forever to get out, keeps you out of jail if he saw you do it since youre not really doing any damage.

demo, you're a fucking retard.
AP would sublimate long before it went 'boooooom'. the heating of a radiator is not that sharp and it doesn't get that hot. learn something before posting utter crap.
demo January 24th, 2004, 11:19 PM

Ok im sorry man. didnt think..
The first post is allways dam hard...
It wont happen again.

If you wanted to use AP, or nitro, etc. I would wait till the engine was off and cold, then put some on the inside edges of all the belts, and any other moving parts... On
starting, you would hear an odd series of odd booms, and when the lid was opened, all the belts would be fragged!
If you wanted to do something very destructive but far more subtle, find the timeing belt. In older diesel engines, the valves are opened and closed by this belt. If it slips, it will
open and close the valves at the wrong time, and fairly quickly trash it. Just make it a bit frayed, or something. (Or glue some AP to it??)
The best idea is the oil/petroleum gelly in the tank. Almost impossible to remove without draining the whole system. Another good idea is brake fluid, which does very much
the same. The environmental guys will shut him down.
Perhaps the best idea, and the way to stay friends, would be to ask him if, if you give him a hand, he will fit a muffler to the exhaust. That way, everything stays nice.

How about adding an abrasive to the oil? Alumium oxide is highly abrasive and could probaly get past the filter if it was fine enough. Titanium oxide I think is fairly abrasive
too. Alot of white paint use titianium oxide as the whiter so if you pouried a litre of paint in the oil tank then you would probaly do some damage.
Diesel isn't very volutile and has a boiling point well over 100C. The diesel engine only compresses air, not the fuel mixure. SO if you were a highly volutile and highly
flammable chemical such as petrol to the air intake you'd cause knocking to the cylinders and screw up the engine.

I still think the easiest is to siphon the diesel out (or about half of it) and fill the tank with either water or sugar (could be disolved in the water), the idea being that with the
water in there the motor will not start and he will have to drain the tank, or with the sugar lots of sticky burnt carmel type residue will build up in the bores and clog the
pistons/valves.
Of course the best thing to do is talk to him or the police (at least here there are noise regulations after 10Pm).
tmp February 3rd, 2004, 04:21 PM

I work with diesel engines in 1 of my jobs. Occasionally, some of the
more stupid operators will put gasoline in the tank. It won't destroy
it as such but it will put the motor out of commission until the owner
goes through the expense of having the entire system purged.
Also this method may make the owner look like a dumb fuck to the
mechanic who cleans it rather than an act of sabotage.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Street Lights = Grow Lights?
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*Wintergreen* January 22nd, 2004, 04:21 AM

It strikes me that the vast majority of municipal street lights are either high pressure sodium vapor, metal halide, or mercury vapor, making them perfect grow lights for any
illegitimate or legit hydro one could potentially dream up. A high quality grow light can cost upwards of $300, which is a fare amount when you need six or seven. Any thoughts
on whether "borrowing" street lights is worth the trouble?
-*Wintergreen*
wrench352 January 22nd, 2004, 11:26 AM

Your going to cut down six or seven streetlights?This sounds like something out of The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.Your smokin too much of your product.This is the stupidest
thing I've read this year.
krickman January 22nd, 2004, 11:44 AM

I use a streat lamp in my cacti growing chamber... Works perfect! And it dident cost me anything... :-)
The reason i have the streat lamp is that i was walking in a park after a big storm and the wind had blown down one of the armatures and the bulb was not damaged... Lucky
me... So i thougth that i culd do somethin fun with it and i did... I use the 50W HPS in combination with a 30W LE
Maby i am stupid but it works fine for me :-) hehe

Dude if think you can use a mercury vapor light to grow vegitation you need a slap in the face. Also, If you don't know the correct time to use a metal hallide and an hps light
than you will fuck your plant up.
powdermunkey January 22nd, 2004, 01:11 PM

The forum you want for this discussion is at www.hempcultivation.com. This site is for explosives.

For North Americans, the main problem will be that street light ballasts are usualy 240 - 270 V and house current is 110 V. The electric company prefers to run as small gauge
wire as possible-

Ya the Europeans are crazy for running such high voltage thru their light sockets. I personally like running 110v its much safer.
Anthony January 23rd, 2004, 12:51 PM

240v is just as safe as 110v - as long as you don't lick it...
FragmentedSanity January 24th, 2004, 02:57 AM

Look - if your talking 6 or 7 lights your talking about a big grow. Big grows have many risks as it is - do you really want to add the hassle and risks of stealing the lights then
wiring them up yourself?
The HPS and Metal Halide lamps can be used for growing - and if you happen to find an old street light you can buy legally they make for cheap grow lights.
As said this isnt really the forum to discuss growing - there are thousands of those. The only advice I have is that if you are planning a big grow - dont scrimp on the setup -
getting that right is the first step to staying out of jail. Also note that a street light isnt compareable to a high quality grow lamp - but it can be used as a cheap substitute if
need be.
powdermunkey January 25th, 2004, 12:04 AM

WTF does this have to do with explosives or weapons, anyway???
Mumble January 25th, 2004, 03:17 PM

There is a reason this is in the Water Cooler section. It doesn't fit elsewhere(tools maybe), but still is a nice conversation. It has to do with science and electricity so I see no
reason for it not to be here.

Ya the Europeans are crazy for running such high voltage thru their light sockets. I personally like running 110v its much safer.
Not really true. It's mainly the amperage that kills, not the voltage. Stun guns have 50 000V for example, yet few die of exposure.
Short circuiting a 50A 12V car battery with your body will easily kill you. 0,1A at 240V will just give you a shock.
The european system is thus actually safer, because let's assume you're draining 100W from the net. In the US, the current would have to reach 0,9A to deliver that power. In
Europe, only 0,42A would be required.

That is true. However, It takes a High voltage stream of electircity to carry a high amperage current. That gives high voltage electricity a much greater potential to have a very
hazdous current. I know I said I thought your high voltage electricity is crazy. But truth be told its probably a better system. High voltage electricity is much more effecient and
can carry electricity for long distances. Also the americans have a way of doing every thing back ass wards from the rest of the world. This reminds me I ran across an old shop
light that I scored from a hippe and it sucks cause its setup to run with 480v electricity. I have looked into it and i'm trying to salvaging it cause its a damm good hps light that i
scored pretty much for free. does anyone know if there is some kind of way to get something cheap(20-30$ not over 50) so I can run this light. I hope its not a 3-phase light
i'm not sure though.
grendel23 January 26th, 2004, 03:40 AM

I agree that the amount of current is what determines the severity of a shock, but it is the voltage, along with the resistance of the skin that determines the current.
Clean dry skin has maybe 50K ohms of resistance, at 120V that means 2.5MA of current, enough to startle you, but not really hurt, 240V means 5MA, that hurts quite a bit
more but is not dangerous.
It gets scary if the resistance of the skin is lowered by water, dirt, salt, or because the skin has been punctured by an arc, inside the skin people are bags of salty water and
conduct very well.I had a friend who received a nasty shock from 24VAC because his hands were wet with photo fixer.
Devices such as stun guns are current limited, if you were shocked by 50KV that was not current limited you would probably not survive.
For some reason DC seems to hurt worse than 60Hz AC, 190VDC from a motor controller will knock you on your ass.
tom haggen, I am sure your light is single phase, but it will not be cheap to convert your light to run on whatever voltage is used in your country. Your choices are a
transformer to change the voltage, but power transformers are expensive, or a new ballast, look for a good deal from a salvage or surplus dealer.
a_bab January 26th, 2004, 01:04 PM

"Short circuiting a 50A 12V car battery with your body will easily kill you. 0,1A at 240V will just give you a shock."
Vulture, you are right (somehow) about the fact that the amperage matters. Actually, is the power absorbed by the body which is killing. Power equals with the amperage
multiplied by the voltage.
On a side note, there is no way by getting killed by a car battery by the means of short circuiting it with the body. As grendel23 said, the resistance of the human body is far
too big for any amperage to develop when one would short circuit the car battery. 50A 12V car battery means that the battery is able to deliver 50 amps and 12 V, but not that
if you touch the connectors you'll get 50 amps in your body. In order to get this amount of intensity a far higher voltage is needed to beat the resistance of the skin. You can
short circuit the connectors ans nothing will happend, even when wet.

Especially if you use the backs of your hands like you should when investigating any possible live connections, seeing as they have a higher resistance than your palms and the
reflex actions of your muscles will pull your hand away from what you are touching not towards it.

I have to disagree. Although 32 volts is generally accepted as the max. that is sure to be safe, 12 volts can kill. I got a shock off a 12volt car battery, when I was touching one
terminal, my friend was on the other terminal, and I put my hand on his shoulder. We were both thrown backwards, hard.
It should never have happened, but it did!
A guy at work stuck a screwdriver into the 240 light socket, and the RCD saved him, but he bent the screwdriver to about 85 degrees, and he swears it took a few seconds to
be able to let go.
Electricity is a weird one. It harms few people, according to the hospital records. This is due to it being the coroner that gets called, or the victim gets up almost unhurt a few
moments later...

You must have fell into the fucking twilght zone to get such a shock from a 12volt battery.

Yes, it was pretty weird. We had both done the same sort of thing many times before. We were heating a thin bit of welding wire to red heat, and cutting up plastic stuff, IIRC.
I suppose it could have been the inductive kick off it, but I remember the wire was pretty straight. The trick was to tap the wire against the terminal, so it didn't just melt the
wire in two, whilst holding the part outside the current path. I bet it was the spark from the induction that broke down a current path, then threw us backwards.
It was a long time ago, now, at least 15 years...
Weird shit.

It sounds like some kind of transformer effect. I thought transformers only worked with ac current though. Either way sounds like you guys must have been bored.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > South African Mem bers
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snooib January 22nd, 2004, 04:53 AM

This is to seek any other south African m e m b e r s
I k n o w o f o n e m e m ber X-W ULF are there any more?
How about us creating our own O TC list this would m ake it easier in hope fully find ing som e ingredients due to the products
here been quite different it se e m s t o e . g . u s a , u k
Ive started com piling one slowly

**Another note Having a shit tim e trying to detonate anfo , Anyone here done it (x-wulf) ?
If W a n t t o o , C a n R e s p o n d B y E m ail (m y forum N a m e H e r e ) @ h o t m a i l . c o m

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > car (borrowing) with t.v rem ote
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mesmashee January 22nd, 2004, 02:47 PM

It occured to me that a universal remo te controll m ay be able to scan a car alarm at a fairly decent range,the car alarm/central
locking in question could then be (with great ease) opened and locked again, unfortunataly the r/c would have to have a scan
f e a t u r e , t h e s e a r e n o t c o m m o n a s m ost universall t.v r/c's are pre-program m e d n o w a d a y s . H a s a n y o n e e v e r h a d a n y
expierance with this and could t h e y s h e d s o m e l i g h t o n i t p l e a s e
ronald January 23rd , 2004, 08:18 AM

1) Not all ala rm s a r e I R , i m h o m ost new ones are rc.
2) W ith most m odern alarm s, the code usually changes after every use.
But there are IR alarms which does not have changing code. If you know something about electronics, it wo nt be that big
p r o b l e m to m ake something what scans for the IR signals and then replicate it. Y ou can d o without tv rem ote control.

" R o l l i n g C o d e " , a l s o k n o w n a s K e y L o Q o r s o m e thing by it's inventors, MicroChip T e c h n o l o g y , m a k e rs of the ubiqutous PIC
Micro's, is a m ysterious, clever and secret technology.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Digital Scales
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green beret January 22nd, 2004, 09:24 PM

I'm looking for a good reliable supplier of digital scales, in Oz, just wondering where aussies got theirs, and what type they are.
I'm thinking about buying some from ebay,theres some good ones there, but I like to see the product before I buy it, and the only other ones I've seen were at Big W, but only
accurate to 1g, ideally I want 0.1g. I cant use my old scales anymore, they arent anywhere near accurate enough. All feedback would be greatly appreciated.
scarletmanuka January 23rd, 2004, 02:53 AM

Dick Smith sells a 0.1g resolution scale for around 100 dollars. I got my scales from an old open house for a hundred dollars. It has a 0.005 gram resolution, but only a max of
200 grams. It is semi-analogue with a back light, but is knob operated for taring(sp?). I wouldn't rule out slide balances either, if you use it carefully, it is just as good as any
digital scale, just get it certified first.
Cyclonite January 23rd, 2004, 01:43 PM

I bought one off e-bay, it was a pocket pro 5.0 or something along those lines. Its accurate to .01 and has a 250g Cap. Its about $75 US and has a cool little hydro hinge.
a_bab January 23rd, 2004, 01:52 PM

Well, I must to be a lucky guy. I got one accurate to 0.1 grams, 200g max, with 3 bucks ! Of course it was a second hand one but still...

Thanks, I'll go and check out dick smith, I was in there the other day actually.
FragmentedSanity January 24th, 2004, 03:03 AM

Three Bucks - Damn - I wish. keep a lookout on ebay - 30 to 100+ dollars is the average for a set of Digi scales - just type scales in the search - you will turn up all kinds. If I
remember right there is currently a set of triple beam balance scales up for grabs.
frogfot January 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM

Anybody thoat to "upgrade" 1g scale down to 0,01g? I beleave those sensors can give better precision, they probably make it +/-1g to fit home uses.. or?
snuk5 January 24th, 2004, 08:38 PM

Possible Source of electronic balances
I bought my electronic balance a few years ago.

Its a Mettler, Swiss made.
Resolution .001 g, max weight 400 g
They cost a blooming fortune, I mean thousands of $s US

I paid the equivalent of 65 $ US for it in a Cash Convertor store.
It had a yellow sticker on it from some calibration agency.
The thing must be over 18 years and may have failed this or that test, but
I have spoken to the calibration chaps and it passed the tests that I could execute myself.
Im still smiling about this outstanding buy.
So methinks it would be a good idea to get friendly with your local calibration lab and ask the chaps there to let you know about any rejects from the universities or labs....
Lil_Guppy January 24th, 2004, 08:55 PM

I got my set of scaled from eBay. They gost me around $70 all up with postage. Brand new, still in the box with a calibration weight. Accuracy is 0.1g and max. weight is 500g.
I could have got .01 accuracy scales, but in my experience, the more accurate something can measure, the easier it is to break :P
ShadowAlchemist January 24th, 2004, 10:54 PM

I am currently tossing up between a OHAUS model 710-00 and a OHAUS model 311-10 analytical balance.
The 710-00 is a triple beam balance with a max weight of 610g, resolution of 0.1g and a cost of
$320 + GST.
The 310-00 is a "Cent-O-Gram" balance with a max weight of 311g, resolution of .01g and a cost of $440 + GST.
Available from LOMB scientific http://www.lomb.com.au. I have also bought large quantities of nasty solvents & acids in the past from them and they have never batted an
eyelid. Prices are AVERAGE!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > samosa's Deep Thought
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MrSamosa January 23rd, 2004, 05:12 PM

Friends, Comrades, Forumites... Mr Samosa has had a deep thought, and would like to share it with you.
Have you ever looked up at the sky at night, at the stars and the moon and all that garbage? It's all so far away..so far, that what we see in the sky has most likely changed
by now, but light is moving too slow to keep up with that. Much too far for us to ever reach... But the moon, we know we've sent some people there (despite conspiracy
claims that they were actors in Texas), and we've landed a few tincans on the surface. But still, too far for you or me or the average guy to take a trip there and see its terrain
with our own, natural eyes... Then I remembered-- this is AMERICA. We are the strongest country in the world, why should WE have to go to the moon?? The moon should
come to us. What if the moon WERE closer, though?
What if the moon were so close, that we had to duck when it came around? A low orbiting moon...imagine: "WATCH OUT, THE MOON IS COMING!!!!" "AHHHHHHHH....
<splat>" -- a tragic death by moon. We'd develop protective measures, of course. Moon forecasts, for example, warning us when the moon is coming to our town. There
would be a massive "highway" along the moon's orbit, too, since nobody would dare build anything there. Imagine how much easier transportation could be...
Or, what if the moon were so close, that it touched the Earth's surface and just rolled along the continents, and into the oceans, and up again? An inexorable force, going about
its orbit and crushing all in its way. Imagine people on a beach, relaxing, and suddenly...the water starts to change, and bubble and froth as a massive MOON rises from the
ocean, and onto the beach!! "NOOOO!!! They just said High Tide, they didn't tell us the MOON was coming!!!! <squish>" Muahaha, another death by moon!
Or perhaps, it wouldn't be the moon we're familiar with at all. Just some little rock, blazing around the Earth a few feet above the surface, clipping people's heads off who get
in the way... Oh, we could have so much fun with thoughts about a low-orbiting body, couldn't we??
So, friends, what do you think? :) Leave out the crap about friction and air resistance and stuff eh??? This is deep thinking, not Physics! ;)
vulture January 23rd, 2004, 06:53 PM

I'd probably spoil your fun by throwing up a rather impact sensitive "object" when it passed over...:p
James January 23rd, 2004, 09:26 PM

I suppose It would have to be made of amazinggly strong yet light stuff (rereads thread). I'd want some of that to build body armor and stuff.
SpiffyVision January 23rd, 2004, 10:38 PM

That just made my day, I love your "watch out, the MOON is coming!", another death by moon! Muahahahaha!
If this were true, then I'd nuke it....
Nicker January 24th, 2004, 03:13 AM

Mmmm i cant wait, a big glob of cheese rollling around and around. cows would lose 1/2 their exports and cheese would be forever free, unless when the moon was in the
ocean and it was salty cheese, i know cheese has some salt in it, but i dont like it with concertratred salt. Isent it true that we havent seen the dark side of the moon yet,
aliens live thier, blah blah, i guess we would see the dark side of the moon if it came to us. Wouldent the tides be all fuckd up too, earthquakes too, what movie was that, the
time machine, when the moon cracked up, wasent a pretty sight, cool tho.
Oh boy the possibliliys are endless...

I gave up LSD 35 years ago, so I can't relate.
frogfot January 24th, 2004, 05:12 PM

Buahahahaha, and I was going to ask what he smokes..

I know what caused him to write that!! :eek:
Friends, Comrades, Forumites
Comrades, he said Comrades! He's a fucking leftist communist!! KILLLL! KILLL!!!
:rolleyes:
MrSamosa January 24th, 2004, 10:06 PM

"Comrades" as in those with a common interest, as in fellow amateur scientists/forumites... For the savvy reader, it was a bad play on Julius Caesar -- "Friends, Romans,
countrymen!" I've found that "comrades" is the best term to describe fellow forumites and amateur chemists; though it does sound a bit red ... Comrade Vulture...;)
nbk2000 January 26th, 2004, 04:25 PM

There's nothing wrong with a little creative thinking. Keeps the mind from fossilizing. I do it all the time to keep the juices flowing, as it were.
Like I'll imagine what would be different if people had tails and pouches like kangaroos. Chairs would have holes or slots for the tails, and women wouldn't need purses, things
like that.
Though I don't require the use of mind altering drugs to get into this frame of mind. :p Wait...that might not be a good thing...;)
zeocrash January 28th, 2004, 08:00 AM

lol i guess the problem with the tides would be counterbalanced by the water displaced when the moon dunked itself in the ocean.

It would be rather interesting.
I can just see the transport industry becoming a real high-risk one, but cargo carrying would be really cheap, anywhere along the sides of the strip. 200 tonnes of cargo, two
diameters that way, for 50, as long as you package it REALLY well (crush proof?!?!) and supply your own harpoon!
I for one would be diggin' a hole!
Arkangel January 28th, 2004, 06:52 PM

Well, I had an interesting experience a year or so ago. I was out camping with some friends and I have to admit that I'd had a few good pulls on a pipe, so was kiiiiinnnd of
rolling with it.
Anyway, we're sat on the beach, and it was the clearest night I'd seen in years, bright, sharp stars and the moon looking so close that I could almost touch it.
And that's when it happened.
I stopped thinking of the moon as this two dimensional disc in the sky, and saw it as the globe it is. I could see so much of it, and from the shape, could work out where the
sun was in relation to us all. I don't know what you guys imagine when you look up on the same moon as me - MY moon, but it's interesting to see it in that kind of
perspective, I got a much stronger sense of our place in the solar system.

If the axis of rotation of the low-orbit moon was fixed with respect to the earth, we'd have a bare ring all around the earth over which the moon would pass. If, however, the
axis itself rotated, then the moon would have to pass over each and every point on the surface of the earth sooner or later. There'd be no Mt. Everest, no K2, no Apalachians,
Rockies....
If the moon were to revolve about the earth without actually touching it, but at the same time keeping very close to the surface, its velocity would be "quite" high. Faster than
the speed of sound, in fact. So the next time someone started to shout out, "Watch out! MOON!", he/she would be better off saving the trouble of doing so, for the moon
would get the poor victim first anyhow. Also, accompanying the moon would be its giant sonic boom, which would devastate all man-made structures near its path.
Perhaps we'd regard it as part of the weather, ("And in the weather, Moon is to be expected at 3:30 A.M. GMT...") as well as a regular part of the main news ("Yesterday was
a black day in the history of Iceland, as the Moon totally devastated Reykjavik...")
And if NASA claimed that they had landed a man on the moon, you'd know for a fact that they were lying.
The moon would also have affected our english language. "Once in a blue moon" would be once too often.
Arkangel January 29th, 2004, 08:25 AM

I like your style T-Pyro
But you do realise that if the moon WAS doing this kind of crazy shit, we'd have Bruce Willis in some kind of "craft" (it would hardly be a space craft) landing on it somewhere,
burrowing into it's core and then detonating some kind of thermonuclear device that would trigger a cataclysmic seismic chain reaction leading to the whole thing shattering to
dust.
To add to the suspense, he'd have a tiny window of time in which to do it, failing to hit the window would result in the moon COLLIDING with Earth and the destruction of
mankind. The sneaky bad guy religious nut that believes in the apocalypse and is stowed away somewhere on board the craft would show his hand, having a little scrap with
Bruce - possibly even killing/harassing his love interest and distracting Brucie long enough to make for a nailbiting bit of us looking at a digital countdown that bears no relation
to ACTUAL time, Brucie covered in bruises and sweat, finally, desperately hitting the button. He'd be battered around a bit in the explosion, flung seemingly to his death, before
being found unconscious (maybe dead, we don't know) in the wreckage of his craft somewhere in Nevada.
We'd then cut to him in a hospital ward, a few token bandages and his estranged wife and daughter with leukaemia running into the room and hugging him, just after he's
punched some jumped up and clearly inadequate government official.
:rolleyes:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The Post Office
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TheHitMan January 24th, 2004, 04:35 PM

As this isn't "forum related", I've posted this in the Water Cooler section. If you find that this topic has no use on this forum board, then please delete.
I orginally wrote this for web publication, so I'm afraid you'll have to endure the "how-to" style of writing.
This kind of scam isn't pulled very often thus, not many security precautions are in place.
To start with you need to pick your target location(s).
For this example we can use your own house for the senders address, and a friends for the recipients address.
Then you need to choose what your package is to contain. The "top earners" are PC peripherals, laptops, digital cameras/camcorders. Mainly due to their price and the fact that
their expensive to buy, and expensive to replace/repair.
Now you will need to "obtain" a broken version of what you plan to send. So, if youre planning on sending a laptop, you'll need to obtain a broken laptop.
Once you have your broken laptop it's time to pretend it's Christmas and wrap it up in a not so thick cardboard box with some paper padding. Old newspaper sheets/shredded
paper will suffice.
Once you've done that, write your friends address on the box of where you aim to send it to. (Their address) Making sure it's someone/somewhere you know, as you need to
get the package back.
Take the package to the post office and send it to your friend. Making sure you insure it for just above the amount you wish to make. For example, if you want to make $500
insure it for $525. If you want to quicken this process, send the package next day. Although this will add to the cost of shipping and handling. A small outlay for the outcome
however.
Once you've have placed insurance on your package, keep the insurance ticket safe. You'll be needing this in the events to follow.
The reason for insuring it for more than you want to make is that after you've added the cost of getting to and from the post office, stamps, letters and so on the extra you
added on covers this cost.
Once the package has been sent and your friend has received the package, you need to get the package back. The same day your friend got the package would be best.
Now you need to go down to the post office and ask for a damaged and/or lost insurance claim form.
Fill in the form, which will ask you for information like how much is it worth, how was it packed, where it was sent to and from, how much will you want for a replacement and
trivial questions alike. You will also have to attach the insurance card/sticker you were given when you first sent the package.
You will also be asked to provide a print off/photocopy of your item you sent from a shop/retail outlet so they have proof of how much it would cost to replace the item you
sent.
This is where the wonderful world of Internet marketing comes into hand. Search the Internet for the most outrageous price you can find for your item. Note the site needs to
be gunuine. Not some site you whipped up in Front Page as they do check. Ebay is a recommendation.
The post office won't shop around for a better price, it isn't their job to. They'll most likely only check the source that you print off for them.
Once you've completed all this information you need to take it back down to the post office, or post it off to their claims department. Send it by recorded mail so the recipient
will have to sign for the letter.
They tend to "lose" your claim forms to delay the process. Then when they do actually get the claim form, the claim will be void as you only have a certain period of time to
claim for damages. Which is usually 30 days from when the item was first sent.
Then there will be a set of rules they have to stick too, which I will describe briefly.
There are several sections or tiers of compensation that the post office claims department has to deal with, and it's all about money.
So, tier 1 - is claims up to the amount of $50, which any joe working there can sign for and say basically that they accept your claim, and are willing to refund you the cost of
your replacement.
Then theirs tier 2 - which is claim's up to $100, which working joe will have to get his supervisor to sign for.
Tier 3,4,5 and progressively up to their maximum insurance amount will need progressively higher supervisors to acknowledge - and make valid - your claim.
If you you re trying to do a scam for a large sum of money of say $10,000. Then they may wish to meet you to talk about the cost/process of a replacement. - Which
of course you will want to avoid. Unless your confident enough of being able to talk your way out of any given situation.
Once they have received all your paperwork that you've sent them, they may ask you to send them the parcel/package you sent to your friend, or they may ask your friend to
send it to them if it's easier for your friend too, in the "orignal packaging".
This is to try and catch you out, and just to see if it actually is what you said you were sending. As this is one part of their "security measures".
But, this point is moot since you actually did send the package with contents of your choice. But more specifically to try to find out why/how the package was damaged. Ie:
Dropped.
They will take a quick look at the package, then give you a decision either by phone or by post to see if your going to be refunded or not. Usually they will phone you
accepting your claim, and send you a letter with a cheque for the refund.
They may ask you if you want them to get you a replacement. This choice is up to you, if you send them a broken laptop and want them to get you a new one - then that's
up to you.
But its worth thinking about, are they sending you a NEW laptop, or a re-conditioned one? Or one at the same "market value"?
This is a good scam to pull if you just have the bits laying around in your home collecting dust and wish to make money from them.
Is there anything you would change to this idea? And if so what would you change?
Any flaws or possible implications you can see? Hope this is ok for a first post!

Well, don't try that in the UK. The Post Office here will just ignore you, as will the couriers...
I never even managed to get a legit insurance claim off them!
infernal January 25th, 2004, 08:52 PM

just out of curiosity... what happens to your "broken item" once they claim is made... do they keep it and then provide you with a cash refund / new item? or are you left with
both the busted item and cash / new one?
Jack's Complete: You can't get one? Just go down to a main post office and ask for a lost/damaged compensation form.
infernal: Usually destroyed.
Jack's Complete: I never even managed to get a legit insurance claim off them! - So how did you get an forged one?

I think he meant that even though his claim was legitimate they still wouldn't pay him.

Yes, as most people who do a little trading on eBay will have found, getting anything out of the UK post office is such a trial.
I suspect they don't want to set a precedent!
streety January 28th, 2004, 07:22 AM

Did you send your item special/recorded delivery? I know you can specify the value of the package with at least one of these services (forgotten which one) so you should
stand a much better chance of getting a replacement/refund. However if you had been using these services and they still refused to pay then this post is totally useless. :)
TheHitMan January 28th, 2004, 09:46 AM

Special Delivery, would have been my choice. You can have before noon, after noon, and Saturday delivery. This is for the UK however, in the US it varies from state to state.
scarletmanuka January 28th, 2004, 10:42 PM

Just one question though: wouldn't they assess the item that you wish to insure first, to check that it isn't broken. ie, a quick visual and maybe turn it on and off?
Voyager January 28th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Will they pay if the package is stolen?
The Post Office leaves packages at my door, and if my neighbors were not all honest, they could just walk up and steal my packages.
So, could you just claim that the package never arrived?

scarletmanuka, no they are forbidden by law to open your mail. So if your package is opened, you can claim for damages.
Voyager, if the delivery people leave it on your door and someone steals it. Then you could claim, but most delivery companies don't leave a package at the door, as they
need someone to sign for the package before they can release it from their system.

Special delivery and recorded you have to sign for so they wouldn't just leaves these on your door step. Often if you order something from a catalogue they leave them outside
and in this case you could claim it never arrived and get a second one.
If you've spent the past half hour neatly wrapping up your expensive item I think it would be a major inconvenience if you had to unpackage it all. Even if they did ask they
would probably give up fairly quickly.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > W hat to do if you get hurt
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Xioa January 24th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 1 9 P M

W h a t a r e s o m e wise things to do if you (or som e o n e e l s e ) g e t s h u r t w h i l e m a k i n g / u s i n g ( i l l e g a l ) e x p l o s i v e s ? O bviously, one
would call an am bulance for m edical attention, but what if you had evidence on your harddrive, books dealing with explosives,
etc? Thanks.
wrench352 January 25th , 2004, 01:58 AM

T h i s h a s b e e n c o v e r e d a g a i n a n d a g a i n a n d a g ain. First and forem o s t , C l e a n l i n e s s i s n e x t t o g o d l i n e s s . R T PB #55 Plan for
failu re! Beyond that
UTFSE!!!!!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Possible perform a n c e e n h a nces
for Zn+S
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Desmikes January 25th , 2004, 03:22 AM

I ' v e h a d s o m ewhat unreliable egnition of Zn+S rockets when packing the propelle nt very hard. Does anyone know what's the
best thing to add to such rocket fuel to elim inate this problem ? I thought about BP but I would im agine that Zn wou ld like to
be oxidized by KNO3, therefore form i n g a l o t o f s o l i d i n s i d e t h e e n g i n e , p e r h a p s S P . . ? H a s a n y o n e had success with Zn+S
rockets when using PVC pipe or any brass parts for an engine?
Guerilla January 25th , 2004, 10:10 AM

Zn/S is a very poor propellant if pressed (for endburners at least), you should tamp it only little if at all. Ive used to cover the
nozzle with a piece of paper, ram a layer of KNO3/Sugar on it, then pour the prop ellant in and insert an airclay end plug. The
first layer ignites the Zn/S reliably but also prevents it from spilling out from the nozzle. I dont think the prime will dramatically
form solid particles that would block the nozzle or anyth ing, som e ZnS re mains solid inside the case anyway.. Loosely packed
Zn/S m a k e s t h e r o c k e t s s o m ewhat unreliable a nd likely to explode, but its still a better option than a way too low burn rate.
me234 February 12th, 2004, 05:14 AM

I'm not sure what you could use for bo osting the perform ance with regards to rocket fuel, but as a low explosive I've had great
sucess with using a Zn/S/KClO 3 m ix, it's pretty powerful I found, But it m ight burn a bit fast for your uses. Sorry I wasn't more
help . You could perhaps use that mix as a low power bursting ch arge for your rockets (damm it it's not called that, the charge
at the end of the propellant train, shit man what's it called?).
Mumble February 12th, 2004, 07:25 PM

If you packed it hard, the particles might of settled som e. W ith the zinc going to the bottom m ostly. The shock of ram m i n g
would probably be enough to do that. This would result in over fueling, and poor performa nce.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > The ultim a t e S C
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a_bab January 26th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 2 : 5 5 P M

W ell, that's the way I got the idea in fact, by th inking: "What would be the ultimate shape d charge ?" Actually, I like thinking
about "ultim a t e " t h i n g s , r e c o r d s , a n d m a x i m u m s of anything. etc.
Of course, in the first place I thought "the ultim a t e S C m u s t b e v e r y l a r g e a n d u s e o n e o f t h e l a t e s t e x p l o s i v e s a r o u n d ( C L 2 0

or som ething)". Then , t h e i d e a c a m e s u d d e n l y : t h e e x p l o s i v e m ust be a nuclear charge!
Yes, a nuclear SC. I know it sounds crazy. What liner one should use ? W hat would be the performance ?
W ell, there is a big difference between a nuclear explosion and a chem ical one. T h e c h e m i c a l e x p l o s i o n i s a s u d d e n r e l e a s e o f
gas (well, hot gas) with a certain speed. The nuclear explosion is a sudden release of hea t, an im m e n s e a m ount of heat. So
actually a nuclear SC might not work as expected.
Any thoughts, suggestions ?
Note: I posted this here as is can't be placed anywhere else; besides it's something totally im practical for the forum ites, so it
has no use at all.

G o o g l e o n " n u c l e a r p u m p e d l a s e r " a n d " g a m ma ray laser". You aren't going to be building one at hom e u n l e s s h o m e i s
Sandia Labs.
nbk2000 January 26th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 3 8 P M

In "The Curve of Binding Energy", Taylor (big-time nuke designer) says that they had built nuclear shaped charges and tested
them. Naturally the results weren't specified, but I got the im pression of drilling through m ountains. :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > source of dimethyl aniline
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atlas#11 January 26th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 0 2 P M

I didn't want to put this in the HE section becau se it dosent deal directly with HE's but is a nessicary precursor to tetryl.
Here goes, In this old chem b o o k o f m ine it says that Dim ethyl aniline is produce d by heating aniline sulfate and m ethyl
alchohol to 2 00 deg. C . It dosen't give am mouts or yeilds but it tells how to purify it. After it has reacted for "x" amm o u n t o f
tim e the solution should be cooled and then treated with Acetyl chloride to convert the unreacted aniline and m ethyaniline to
their derivitaves of acyl which are only slightly volatile so distilation would be a sinch, the only problem for me is finding the
aniline sulfate and I could just surf a few paten ts and hopefuly find a good otc so urce, acetyl chloride could be another
p r o b l e m . I f a n y b o d y h a s t h e s e c h e m s avalible and a good distilation setup they could wo rk out th e stoicheometrics of it then
they could help m e out quite a bit. If i get around to try this I will surely post the results.
BTW , the sam e h a r d e n e r u s e d i n i m prov. plx is a tertiary am ine like dimethyl aniline. If they are the same then you could just
skip the above and get it that way.
Hope this helps som e one.

You can't work out the stoichiometrics? That is VERY basic stuff...:rolleyes:
Aniline + H2SO4 should yield anilinesu l f a t e I M H O .
atlas#11 January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 1 : 5 7 P M

Sory as I am quite new in chem istry,(n ever eve n b e e n i n a c h e m class in highschool), I have lim ited access to the rest of the
world so I turned to the internet for knowledge. As for the aniline + H2SO 4, DUH! why didin't I think of that?! Any way I am
learning slowly but su rely.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > acetic anh ydride
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demo January 27th , 2004, 03:59 AM

I would like to m a k e s o m e acetic anhydride but it seem s a b i t d i f f a c u l t t o d o s o , i c h e a k e d m e g a ' s p a g e b u t i t s e e m s too hard
for me . well i was reading i fo und this:
c2h4o2(acetic acid)+p2o5=c4h6o3(anhydride)+hpo3? is this righ t?
thanks

Learn how to spell and how to correctly write equations.
W ith your knowledge level, it should be prohibited to com e anywhere close to chem icals.
Are you aware of the hazards involved when working with P2O5 and anhydride?
Stupid druggie.
bobo January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 9 : 3 5 P M

well... except from the spelling etc, I think the question m a k e s s e n s e . I h a v e n o i d e a i f p 2 o 5 i s e a s i e r t o o btain than acetic
anhydride though but would it be feasible to dehydrate glacial acetic acid using another dehydrating agent and separate it?
(discounting the ketene process of course)
demo January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 3 5 P M

Sorry for m y shitty en glash bu t I live in C HINA!!So I dont have m uch tim e on english very very sorry..
Back to acetic anhydride, I did a search and all the other ways of m a k i n g it is use ing h2so 4.
I will try that sometim e.
And by the way P2O5 IS dangerous , I know that , the bottle tha t has the stuff tells you that.
But I still dont know bad it is for your health..
And im not a druggie,it is used in a lot of explosives ma king..
zeocrash January 28th , 2004, 07:48 AM

i'd p robably go for the ketene m ethod of Acetic anhydride production, it seems re litavely easy com pared to the other m e t h o d s ,
P2O5 and acyl chlorid es are very hard to get around these parts.
you could use sulphuric acid to produce acetic anhydride, but it would be very hard to separate the 2 when the reaction is over.
if yo u really want to m a k e a c e tic anhydride you should probably search the forum, there's a lot of good info here on the
production of it.
nbk2000 January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 3 5 P M

Since when d o e s t h e c h i n e s e g o v e r n m ent allow people to access an E&W f o r u m ? T h e y d o n 't let you look at pro-dem ocracy
sites, so imp rovised weapons sites are OK? LIAR!
SpiffyVision January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 6 : 5 6 P M

R e m e m b e r H o n g K o n g, he m ay be from H o n g K o n g .
ossassin January 29th , 2004, 09:41 AM

This is slightly OT, but I didn't want to start a n ew thread for it. In the place where I get m ost of m y chemicals, there is a large
bottle m arke d, "Acetic Acid: for neutralizing bases." Do you think this is glacial or at least fairly concentrated?
demo January 29th , 2004, 10:06 AM

I got 500Ml 99% acetic acid from the chem store.
it freeses at 16c.The hell it stinks.
And can SB tell me is this right C2H4O2+P2O 5 = C 4 H 6 O 3 + H P O 3 ?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > non-conical/hem ispherical SC's
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Chemical_burn January 27th , 2004, 08:03 AM

Ok I had this thought the other day and just th ough I would post it up on here and see what everyone thinks.
First off I have no experience with SC's.
Ok so we all know about conical and hem ispherical SC's but what about using som ething other than a cone or hem isphere.
Such as a 4 sided pyramid or even an 8 sided pyramid.
if yo u think about it a 4 sided pyram id would be just like a very short linear SC
Ok well thats the big idea so post your thought's
P l e a se refrain from flam eing but if you do ohhh well.

Any shape cavity will have som e effect. The Munroe effect was first notced due to a block of explosives having the
m anufacturer's name im pressed in it's surface being fired on a steel plate- The cone shape is widely used because it's
optim ized for weapon s use.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > the dumbest question ever
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The A narch January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 2 : 1 7 P M

Alrig ht... so I was at a concert a little while ago with Life of Agony, Flaw, and Skrape. I bou ght a Flaw shirt at the place and got
all o f the me mbers to sign the tag(i didn't have anythin g else for them to sign), and i'm wondering if there's any kind of shit i
can put on the tag to prevent the sigs from fad ing away in the wash. It was with p erm e n a n t m arker but I th ink even that'll fade
in the wash over time . I thought of puting wax on it, but that would probably crack and fall off and mess up the signatures
even more. Any ideas?
Arkangel January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 4 : 4 7 P M

W ell, what you have to remem ber is that by the time it faded, you wouldn't really give that much o f a f u c k a b o u t t h e b a n d
anyway, so it won't matter by then.
And if, by any rem ote chance it has an y financial value as a result of the sigs, then you'd be a dumbass to wear it, just so
people could see you were at the gig.:rolleyes:
Get a copy of the shirt, then copy the sigs yourself and use your "forged" shirt to im press all the dullards that would b e
im p r e s s e d b y t h e r e a l o n e .
OR get a life:p
The A narch January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 0 : 4 8 P M

They're Flaw, dude. Not exactly underg round anymore. I'm not wearing the shirt to im press anyone, they're just a band that I
like and I wa nt to keep the signatures intact. Sorry if i can't step to the h undrends of Good Charlotte shirts that i'm sure you
have. Thanks for the stupid idea though.
Jacks Complete January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 2 4 P M

Sorry, who th e hell are Flaw?
You can buy a spray from art shops that will set the ink better than nothing. Also, use just water to wash it, as the h igh
powered detergents are what strip the colour out of stuff like tha t.
nbk2000 January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 5 : 3 6 P M

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. :p

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Ballistic Sheeting
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Firstly, I don't know if this should be in Improvised Weapons or here. Move to another section if more appropriate.
The ballistic blanket provides a portable, flexible, lightweight means of protection against fragmentation and ballistics.
You could use this to cover windows, doors, ceilings or other openings permitting safe passage during a hostile situation.
The heavy duty webbing handles assist in suspension or hanging.
It's protection level is 11a min, 111a max.
Something like this would be good for fortifying your home. You could use it to cover your windows, as well as for many other useful applications.
Personally I'd first have a metal grate bolted well into the wall of my home, having a second wall behind it in case the bacon manages to pull it out of the wall. (otherwise
you'd be left with a huge hole where your window used to be, allowing easy access for bacon!)
Then some kind of ballistic/shatter proof window. And then the ballistic sheeting hung up on rail's above and over the window.
If hung from window, it might be a good idea to hang from an angle of say 45 degrees.
Even without the grate over the window, if the bacon manages to break the window and try to launch a CS/smoke screen through, the sheeting would bounce it back out
through the window as it would just bounce off. (Hence the idea of placing it at an angle.)
You could even have it running from ceiling to floor in a zig-zag fashion. In the event of a hostile attack, you could weave in and out of these and any possible attacker
wouldn't be able to get a clear shot at you due to the ballistic sheeting being in the way stopping any rounds from coming your way.
You could even use a sheet of this in your own "creation labs" ie: preparing some dets in a "blast box" this could be applied on the inside/outside of the box to stop any
shrapnel from shredding the rest of your limbs, if one should accidently go off. (your hands are inside the box, and there's only so much a pair of heavy gloves can do before
your hands are meat paste.)
If there is a way to "mold" these sheets together, it might be a good idea to build yourself a "suit". If the ballistic sheeting is good enough to stop say 5.56mm ammo, then
you could replace this instead of bulky body armor.
The "suit" could be worn under clothes and thus not immediately alerting anyone should you need that first moment of surprise. Moveability might pose a problem though. As I
doubt this kind of material gives to movement well.
There's going to many other uses that I haven't listed that will have a practical use for the ballistic sheet.
What would be some of the uses that you would use the ballistic sheet for?
Picture of Ballistic sheeting. (http://www.sdms.co.uk/PersonalProtection/Images/Pe120.jpg)
Link for more info on Ballistic sheeting. (http://www.sdms.co.uk/PersonalProtection/Pages/Pe120.htm)

What a strange idea. Your house must look plenty strange.
So, you want to sew together a sheet of stuff that will stop a bullet, and replace your vest with it? Not too sure why you would want to do that. Why not just wear the vest?
You say it is bulky, but IIa level vests are pretty thin, and the ballistic sheeting is pretty thick.Standard vests are designed so you can move, too. Since they are made from the
same material (Kevlar) I would go with the one designed for the job.
As for the blast box, it is wiser to do such risky operations remotely, thus avoiding loss of arms or fingers.
Might I suggest that you simply buy polycarbonate sheeting, and replace your glass with that? It would be cheaper, tougher and far more discreet. Why buy that and have the
opaque sheeting too? Surely you just make it thicker?
If the cops pull the windows out, they will use a winch that takes half the wall with it, btw.
nuclearattack January 28th, 2004, 06:33 PM

To do a ballistic sheeting i use 2 sheet of polycarbonate with a 2 cm layer of poliuretanic foam in a sandwich type structure (polycarbonate-foam-polycarbonate), it is very
resistant, i tested it with a crossbow and a claymore mine. In any case the ballistic shield was able to stop the arrow and even the steel balls of the claymore mine! Now i use it
as a shield in my detonation tests and i'm very satisfied by its resistance.

Jack's Complete, "Why not just wear the vest" Well, a vest only cover's the chest and back. With a suit it has the advantage of covering your whole body. (You could make a
face mask but I doubt it would be of much use!)
Also larger vests are often heavy and bulky, with this it could be worn under the clothes without much suspicion.
But I only stated some uses you could have for it, it was for the end user to decide what they could/would want to do with it.
"Your house must look plenty strange" - Rather have my house look strange than be leaving my house in a rubber suit, (body-bag). And if your neighbours are looking in your
windows, put a higher fence up. Nosey neighbours are dangerous!
"If the cops pull the windows out, they will use a winch that takes half the wall with it" A moot point if you have a double wall. Sure they could do winch it out again, but not if
they don't have anything to attach the winch too.
Another good idea might be to add abestos in powder form in the gaps of the walls. So if bacon pulls out the wall, a couple of years down the line there dying from cancer. It's
a win-win situation!
nuclearattack, how big were the steel balls, and what explosive was used and how much? Also how much draw does the crossbow have?

I used 9 mm steel balls and 50 gr of AP putty. My crossbow has a force of 80 pounds.
I think it's a good result!
YayItGoBoom! January 30th, 2004, 07:17 PM

That sounds like a very useful idea for making your home into a fotress of sorts (ha imagine one of those Discovery makover shows: Monster House - Waco House ;)) The
only problem I could see you running into is cost.
I have also thought a lot of the idea of "finger savers" gloves, being a bass and saxophone player, I value my fingers a lot. I have no live experience with explosives, but
surely chain mail (with heavy leather underneath that) covered with that polycarbonate balistic material would fend off a lot of the damage that might be caused by a small
charge of AP going off.

Originally posted by TheHitMan
Another good idea might be to add abestos in powder form in the gaps of the walls. So if bacon pulls out the wall, a couple of years down the line there dying from cancer. It's
a win-win situation!
What good does them dying in 20 years do you while they're assaulting your home? Sure when your old and decrepit(sp?) sitting in your 8X12 box you can have the
satisfaction that it took you 20 years to kill them but Woulnd't it be better to have killed them 20years sooner and not be in prison?Also I don't really understand this "double
wall" concept you keep talking about.
@ YayItGoBoom, your fancy gloves are going to do little about the massive shockwave that is surging through your hand. Polycarbonate is sheet plastic similar to lexan. Its
what Nalgene bottles are made of and not very flexible. You best choice is to never have a charge of AP or anything for that matter go off in your hand, no matter how small.
Thats the whole point of a remote press for blasting caps. Also its more likely that your chainmail would turn into shrapnel and tear your arms apart. Or if your really unlucky
the blast may just tear your arms clean(well not really all that clean) off, but rest assured your hands are fine.
NightStalker January 31st, 2004, 03:02 AM

Shear thickening fluids, based on collodial silica particles suspended in a glycol-based fluid, are being developed for the US ARMY's "Warrior 2025" project.
A 4-ply kevlar target impregnated with STF has the same protective value as a 10-ply kevlar target. It also has the same weight but, unlike the 10 layer, is much more
flexible, even more so than a dry 4-ply target.
Energy dissipation is BETTER for the STF 4-ply than the dry 10-layer, meaning the hit is less painful.
Combine improved flexibility and impact dissipation, and some way of taking the weight of of the soldier (exo-skeleton), and you've got full body armor.
For the criminal, which I'm expecting you to be intending this for if theyr'e the target of police raids, since you wouldn't be facing heavy weapons and artillery, you could likely
get away with a poncho-type of armor that you could throw over in a hurry that'd protect everything down to your knees.
It'd be heavy, like a wet blanket, but how much weight, and for how long, would you need to carry to break through a police cordon or kill a few cops before escaping or being
killed yourself?
TheHitMan January 31st, 2004, 11:34 AM

Skean Dhu, ok fair enough - use Ricin or something else that would be fast acting to knock out/kill the bacon before they enter your house.
YayItGoBoom!, "The only problem I could see you running into is cost." Which do you value more? Your wallet, or your life?
NightStalker, I like the idea of a poncho for a quick-fix in a emergency situation.
I have made a diagram to explain my "double wall" idea. Here's the link: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-1/622077/wall-diag.gif
Skean Dhu January 31st, 2004, 12:59 PM

Wouldn't the liquid based bodyarmor transmit a shockwave better? So if the wearer were hit with a HE round it would do internal damage without actually penetrating? Thats
assuming the bullet is stopped at all and this is the conventional vest type.
PHAID January 31st, 2004, 05:05 PM

here is a link to a site that makes basicly what you want.
http://www.armortex.com/index.html
Jacks Complete February 1st, 2004, 07:45 PM

"Shear thickening Fluid" means that as you try to stir it, it gets harder to stir. Hit it with a hammer, and it will shatter, but put the hammer on it and it will sink slowly in. Silly
putty does this. The idea is that the armour is only rigid and really defensive when it is being hit, and the rest of the time, you are barely protected! Of course, the faster
someone tries to hurt you, the stiffer the fluid becomes, and the more protection is provides. :)
As for my "why not wear the vest?" comment above - surely you just want to buy an EOD vest? My point was, get a defensive aid designed for the job. If, as you say, money
is no object, this is the way to go! Class IV EOD body armour will be a PITA to wear, but will be far better than a cut up blanket!
Also, from what I know, the ballistic screens are designed only to stop penetration, NOT to absorb the energy within (say) 3 mm of travel. This means that the screen will hit
you plenty hard, as you will be missing the rather essential trauma liner!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > How to POST images.
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Xioa January 27th, 2004, 11:05 PM

I've beeing scrolling through a few topics and it has become annoying at seeing links to pictures that do not work becasue the host has a protection on it. This tutorial will tell
you how to Post images using the yahoo Geocities host. The first step is to get a yahoo account (duh) so you can upload images to thier site. The next steps are as follows:
1. Upload the images you want to post.
2. Rename the images you uploaded from xxx.gif/xxx.jpg > xxx.txt
3. Now when you link the images from this forum, use the [img] code and type out the FULL URL to the image, also make sure you link it as a .txt, NOT a .jpg
4. When people load the page, they will see the pretty image and not a nasty little red X.
Please, before posting images, use a program like photoshop or paint shop, or even MS Paint to crop the image and make it into a smaller file size etc. This is not only for the
viewers of the images, but for yourself because like most hosters, Geocities does not supply unlimited bandwith, and if your images are big, you'll find that your images go
offline very very quickly.
I hope this tutorial helps some of you.
nbk2000 January 28th, 2004, 05:35 PM

HOLY SHIT! A newbie is actually posting something useful for once! :eek:
I'm impressed. Now to see if it actually works...

That is an excellent tip. Thank you.
Of course, this is an old problem, and the forum now allows uploading of images, so it won't be as useful as it once would have been.

http://www.geocities.com/spiffy_vision/poopcan.txt
doesnt work for me, and im using the [IMG] things around the link.

lol, my browser actually opens it as a text document as well. Oh well, i'm sure it will make interesting reading.
Xioa January 28th, 2004, 09:23 PM

I forgot the most important part: I've only tested this on IE 6 and Netscape 4.5. In IE, it's fine and it seems as if it's a regular image, but in Netscape, this trick does not work.
The majority of people use IE, so this is not much of a problem, but it is still a significant problem. Some other options are to use a free image hoster that supports hotlinking, a
good one is http://gallery.cybertarp.com/
http://www.free-webhosts.com/free-image-hosting.php has a list of free image hosters.
It also seems that the [IMG] code is disabled for posts. I dont know if you must get a certain post number to get it enabled, or if you have to be a moderator. Instead of
displaying an image, it'll show a link and if you have IE 6, you'll be able to see the image from the link no problem. I should've seen that before I opened my big mouth.
Again, sorry for the lack of information.

Or it might just be that the image is showing up because it's in your web cache.

Again, sorry for the lack of information.
You're kidding right? The lack of information? Your post actually contains very useful information.
Most newbies posts are like black holes sucking for info.
Very good start.
Oh and BTW, that post of NBK was intended to be rather positive about you. You'll understand when you've been around for a little longer...;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > "Helping" som e o n e l o s e t h e i r
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green beret January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 2 3 P M

A firend of m ine wants to m a k e s o m eone lose their job, I will ex plain the story, from now on it will be from my friends point of
view.
"I had this job with a pyro com p a n y a w h i l e a g o , i t t o o k m e s i x m o n t h s o f phone calls and trying but I got it. Boss "X" took me
on and all was going well, however I got the impression that the boss didnt really know that m uch about pyro, except how to do
a d i s p l a y , a s h e s e e m ed to not want to talk about com positions burn rates etc, and even adm itted he dosent know or care
whats in them, he just orders the effects and colours.
So, boss "X" runs another business, and person "Y" starts working in this other business of his, person "Y" is known
(unfortunately) by m e although I dont like him one bit. One day, I was offerred work with the boss, but couldnt m ake it, so for
s o m e reason he gives the work to "Y". Before I knew it person "Y" and his girlfriend were going out for dinner with this boss,
visiting his parents to gether etc. and I was never offered work again. This is for a num ber of reaso ns, I fee l I had a m ore in
depth knowlege of pyro than the boss, he was threatened by this, also the boss was sick, telling m e stories of how he chatted
up 13 year olds (he is mid 40's) and I wouldnt go along with it a nd congratulate him , person "Y" would have.
P e r s o n " Y " k n o w s n o t h i n g a b o ut pyro, and knows I loved this job, he just wants to em u l a t e m e b e c a u s e h e i s n o t h i n g a n d
never will be, he is searching for something to be, when I got a liscence in som e t h i n g , h e w a s s a y i n g , " y e a h I ' m g o n n a g e t m y
lisce nce in th at too cos I like that work", there are other things also. "Y" doesnt even qualify to be a kewl, he dosen t even
have that level of "ahem" knowlege.
So I want to m a k e s u re he loses his pyro job. Unfortunately It was not m y doing that I know "Y", a nd cant be rid of him ."
Normally I wouldnt bother posting anything like this, but m y friend has been driven to his lim it by the idiocy of others, he
needs to deal with this by taking away "Y's" job in pyro.
Som e Ideas have been thought up on how to do this, but no really "sure fire" one has come up.
Although my friend did think of getting som e o n e t o r i n g b o s s " X " , a n d a s k i n g t o s p e a k w i t h p e r s o n " Y " s a y i n g t h a t h e h a d
b e e n o f f e r e d s o m e cheap fireworks by "Y", and was given "X's" phone number.
Anyhow, please dont flam e me for posting this, normally my frie nd would deal with it him self, if you are a pyro I'm sure you
could feel m y friends frustration.
Thanks all.
ossassin January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 4 4 P M

W ell, it's the rat race. W hat did he expect? I doubt that there's m uch tha t your friend can do, since boss "X" seems to like
person "Y" personally. A m utu al affection is m uch harder to destroy than a simple em ploym ent. My advice would be to seek
work at a different com p a n y . T h e o n e i n q u e s t i o n s e e m s t o b e a l o s t c a u s e .
green beret January 27th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 1 : 5 7 P M

T h a t s t h e p r o b l e m , there are no other com panies around the area, this one has the whole area within a six hours drive radius,
its b ecause he has contracts with all the clients, and he is a sub-contractor himself, so any other work in the area that the big
company gets, he does it and gets a cut of the price. My friend dosent want the job back, he just wants this person to pay, and
suffer. My friend will probably just have to let this go, but he dosent do that, he n ever lets som eone walk all over him without
getting som e payback. It m a y s e e m trivial, but see it from my friends point of view.

Get som e o n e t o r i n g b o s s X a b o u t t h e b o m b t h a t p e r s o n Y i s b u ilding for them, use an arab accen t if possible .:)
mixojoe January 28th , 2004, 07:47 AM

Over here in Aust, we can get sacked for being sent porn over the net to a work e mail, it is that simple. Even if we do not kn ow
who, what, when, where and why it cam e :)
bobo January 28th , 2004, 08:05 AM

if he doesn't know on e bit about pyro as you say, you set up a 'business' yourself. You se ll him so m e c h e a p stuff that sucks
for pyro or is sim ply low quality. If he's the sucker you think he is, he will be baited and put togeth er shitty fireworks. looks like
boss x deserves to lo se his company too.
If you're really evil, you make t h e m h a v e a n a c c i d e n t b e c a u s e t h e r e j u s t h a p p e n e d t o b e s o m e d a ngerous com position in the

shed. And who the hell uses Arm strongs m ixture for rocket fuel anyway?
Or, you plant som e HE's in the com pound, and start to advertize pentaerythritol, hexam i n e a n d f u m ing nitric acid etc. from this
company. Ne ver mind it ain't there, if the cops com e they will find whatever you put there...
krimmie January 28th , 2004, 08:58 AM

{One day, I was offerred work with the boss, but couldnt m ake it, so for som e reason he gives the work to "Y". Before I knew it
person "Y" and his girlfriend were going out for dinner with this boss, visiting his parents together etc. and I was never offered
work again.}
I t a p p e a r s t h e b o s s v a l u e s d e pendability over knowledge. I'd put this in the "lost opportunity" folder and work harder at
getting what you want. Try concentrating on tak ing the girlfriend away!

Go start your own com pany. The best revenge is living well.
Flake2m January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 2 : 3 1 P M

Since SWIM is after "Y's" job SWIm could try blackm ailing "X". Since "X" chats up 13yr olds you could try setting him up so what
he says about the 13yrs is potential evidence. Make sure SW IM records it. then on a nice quiet day approuch "X" and ask him
for "Y's" job SW I M s h o u l d h a v e h a d a b o v e a v e r a g e e f f o rt and attitude the past week or fo rtnight, for the ta p e n e e d s t o b e a
trum p card. If he says no then pull out the tape.
T h e o t h e r o p tion usin g legitim a t e m e a ns is to go to work earlier, stay back more and basically work like a slave for a few
m onths hopefully the boss well recognise SW IMs efforts and then SW IM m ight be able to take "Y's" job from him.
T_Pyro January 30th , 2004, 03:59 AM

From what I've read about licenses issued to fireworks companies, the license entitles the factory to random inspections
without prior intim ation by the concerned authorities. Pe rhaps during som e such inspection, they could find som e minor flaw in
the factory which could lead to the cancelation of the license. The "m inor flaw" could be an ything from insufficient distance
between the chlorate and fuel storage areas, insufficient fire safety precautions, etc. And since the boss is a dullard, would h e
know all such stipulations covered by the license clause?
A-BOMB January 30th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 3 : 3 4 P M

B r e a k Y s f i n g e r s a n d t o e s ? h e won't be doing a nything for awhile. Or if he still has access to Xs
b u s i n e s s h a v e h i m g o h a d c h a n g e s o m e l a b e l s a r o u n d o n s o m e containers of chem s like on the chlorate and red pholosurus
cans? armstrongs.

S o m e of the suggestions here could result in serious jail time for your friend. R eally worth it?
Sounds like your friend just plain lost out. "Person Y" sounds like a turd, but hasn't specifically done anything to your friend.
If I were him , I would n't waste tim e o n losers, and would forget about bo th of the m .
YayItGoBoom! January 30th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 7 : 0 7 P M

Yes, unfortunately, often it is not how m uch one knows, but who one kno ws, and how man y people one knows, that matters.
This happened to my father, he was out of work due to a contract being broken and revised, and he wouldn't have anything
with it. With a few phone calls, he was back to work within a week.
green beret February 14th, 2004, 03:06 AM

Thanks all, there are some very interesting ideas there, I didnt clarify som ething, the boss dosent have a factory, he orders
the pyro from a supplier. My friend will do som ething though, although he dosent want to bother with some loser an ym ore.
Cheers though guys.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > The copy of C all Of Duty that's
on the FTP
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View Full Version : The copy of Call Of Duty that's on the FTP

W h o e v e r u p l o a d e d t h is, can you please post th e password for it (it's in a passworded self extracting archive). Megalom a n i a h a s
posted about this in the FTP thread bu t it has gone una nswered.
I don't want to have to spend more tim e cracking the pasword (could take days if it is a lo ng one) when I h a v e a l r e a d y s p e n t
ages downloading this 1.3Gb file on dialup. So if anybody knows the password, please post it.
EDIT: Turns out it's PGP, that means I won't be cracking it, please post the pass whoever uploaded it.

I've applied for FTP a ccess twice (the first tim e was several m o n t h s a g o ) , a n d I h a v e n ' t g o t t e n a n y r e s p o n s e . I s h e n o t g i v i n g
out new FTP accounts? Is he just busy or on a trip?

If you bothered to read the re sponse to your question in the Forum FTP thread you would have seen that C h e m r e s p o n d e d t o
you with rejection E-m ails, and even if you didn 't get them he still posted it in the thread(pg2 last few posts).
I don't know what he's up to with granting accounts and all but, Chem warrior has been in a rather pissy mood lately so that
m ay have so mething to do with it.
sorry for being off topic xyz just wanted to clear it up

It was m y fault for ge tting us off topic. Thanks for telling me about the rejection; I hadn't read tha t post in a while. I just don't
get it...
Flake2m January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 1 2 : 3 4 P M

W hat is the password?
PGP is a tota l bitch to brute fo rce, which is why we recom mends it as a way of denying evidence to the the bacon.
S o m e o n e u p l o a d e d t h e 1 . 3 g b f i l e a n d t h a t p e r s o n m u s t a e n c r y p t e d i t . M a y b e C h e m mwarrior knows whos uploaded it?
xyz January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 0 1 P M

I just found out it was uploaded by peterthesmart (I UTFSE) and I have been trying to contact him.
peterthesmart January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 0 6 P M

All SDA archives are encrypted to the p assword apples. Anything else encrypted is to Chem warrior's key, and cannot be
decrypted by anyone but him .
xyz January 28th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 1 8 P M

Thanks for that, next tim e please include the word apples in the filename or uplo ad a .txt to the sam e directory.
TheHitMan January 31st, 2004, 11:45 AM

S e e m ing as though this is a p o s t a b o u t g a m e s - I r e m e m b e r r e a d i n g M e g a l o m a n i a p o s t i n g a t o p i c a b o u t C & C R e d A l e r t a n d
was wondering Mega if you wanted any other Com mand & Conquer titles, I have a few and also just acquired Metal Gear Solid
2: Substance (which is 7.6gig!).
M e g a , ( O r anyone else for that matter) let m e know if you need any of the other titles. They are ISO's of the original gam e a s
I buy all m y gam es. (Or download the ISO ' s o f t h e o r i g i n a l g a m e ) .
megalomania February 1st, 2004, 0 1 : 4 3 P M

Thanks for the offer HitMan, I m ay take you up on that. I tried to download Metal Gear 2 off overn et a few weeks ago but
there was no complete copy. Metal Gear was my favorte gam e on Nintendo :) I tried to play it recently on an em ulater, but
u s i n g a k e y b oard sucks. I am sure the 21st century PC version is much better :)
I would like Max Payne 2 if yo u have it, that's another I could only get a part of.
I have all the C&C titles I want for now, I just downloaded Generals, but I have not installed it yet. I am still playing Half-Life,
R e t u r n t o C a s t l e W o l f e n s t e i n , a n d G T A 3 . M a n I l o v e m y new PC.
I downloaded GTA Vice-City, Homeworld 2, Med al of Honor Allied Assult Breakthrough, and Counterstrike - Breakthrough. Plus
with my new Audigy2 soundcard I bought this weekend I have Tom b R a i d e r A n g e l o f D a r k n e s s a n d Rainbow Six 3 Ravenshie ld.
The only game I want now ( since I have planty to keep m e occupied for many m onths) is UR U nd Half-Life 2 whenever it
comes out. I was disappointed my new graphics card did not include a free copy of Half-Life 2 (well a download coupon since it
is not out yet). Oh ye ah, I also want the new gam e TrueCrim e - Streets of LA.
TheHitMan February 1st, 2004, 0 2 : 3 3 P M

I have the beta version of Half Life 2, if you'd be interested in that? I am a l s o a s w e s p e a k m aking ISO's of Enter The Matrix.
W hich is 4cd's large.
I a l s o h a v e T r u e C rime Streets of LA. It's pretty good bu t needs a beefy GFX card to play it.
Also with Metal Gear Solid, ATI/Radeon cards are not su pported only GeForce cards are supported. (How lame of the gam e
designers to favor one GFX card!) However you can get a patch that will p atch ATI cards to play, but only the 8500 range and
above. Anything below the 8500 range won't play with or without the patch.
Flake2m February 2nd, 2004, 08:49 AM

dont even bother with the Beta of HL2. You'd be insulting Valve if you uploaded it.
Do upload true crim e t h o u g h .
TheHitMan February 2nd, 2004, 04:00 PM

I w o n ' t b e u p l o a d i n g t h e s e g a m e s o n m y connection! W e'd be talking m onths!
And who cares about insulting Valve? Half the 'net gives them th e virtual-finger downloading ripped gam es anyhow.
Just received M a x P a y n e 2 - T he Fall O f M a x P a y n e . : )
megalomania February 6th, 2004, 09:04 PM

The game on the FTP is corrupt. I finished downloading it, and I unencrypted it, and I assem bled the split rar files back into its
bin and cue files, but the second disk failed to fully unp ack. The r e s h o u l d b e s o m ething like 30 rar files that m a k e u p t h e
second disk, but there were only 20.
I t h e r e f o r e s e e k a n a lternate source :( I went to suprno va.org to find a copy but they don't have the game. Man I love
bittorrent now; I have been using it for the past week. I am downloading Max Payne 2 and Allied Assult.
I a l s o d o w n l o a d e d A h My Goddess, but it is in damn Japanese with no su btitles :(
xyz February 7th, 2004, 04:02 AM

A h , M e g a , I h a d e x a c t l y t h e s a m e problem when I downloaded Call O f Duty, so I got peter to upload the m issing files. They
are in an SDA called "Callofdutycorrupt" and it's in the "O ther" folder IIRC. The pass is apples like it was in the other one.
I have now finished the game and consider it d efinitely worth playing, the single player cam paigns are a little short but other
than that it is an excellent gam e. The US cam paign is mostly copied stra ight from " B a n d O f B r o t h e r s " a n d t h e R u s s i a n
c a m p a i g n i s m ostly from "Enem y at the Gates".

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > GE Plant for landm ine location
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Zeitgeist January 29th , 2004, 08:34 AM

I found this really interesting.
A Genetically m odified plant, which cha nges colour when exposed to NO2 from decom posing organic nitrated HE's,
i s b e i n g d e v e l o p e d t o f i n d l a n d m ines. Fascinating.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm pl=story&cid=585&e=1&u=/nm /20040127/sc_nm /arm s_denm ark_landm ines_dc
peterthesmart January 29th , 2004, 08:41 AM

O e s t e r g a a r d s a i d t h e m o d i f i e d w e e d w a s i n f e r t i l e a n d u n a b l e t o s p r e a d i t s s e e d s , m eaning the risk was minim al that the pla nt
would spread into unwanted areas.
Just a little weed kille r around the m i n e s a n d t h e s e p l a n t s a r e u s e l e s s .
Arkangel January 29th , 2004, 09:37 AM

Ten, fifteen years down the line?
I don't think they are proposing it as a way of sneaking through minefileds, it would take a bit too long. Bu t it could be really
useful in all the place s w h e r e p e o p l e a r e b e i n g m a i m e d l o n g a f t e r t h e w a r h a s e n d e d .

T h e r e ' s a B e l g i a n t e a m that used train ed rats to sniff for mines. That's right, rats. Apparently they have a very sensitive nose.
Also, their small weight is not sufficient to set off m i n e s .
Funny thing to see a rat on a line sniffing around a field.
EDIT: I have a very d umb question: Are they going to plant all countries full of th i s p l a n t ? B e c a u s e I d o n ' t s e e y o u d i g g i n g
a r o u n d a p o s s i b l e m inefield to seed a plant that'll need a few m onths to grow...:rolleyes:
tom haggen January 29th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 1 9 P M

I'm sure they could just drop the seeds from a biplane, and fertilize them the sam e way.
Chemical_burn January 30th , 2004, 12:29 AM

I would think the plants would royally screw with the local ecology and all that.
Arkangel January 30th , 2004, 12:42 AM

Not substantially so if they are sterile, and in any case, that would not be nearly as dam a g i n g a s a redundant, lost but active
m inefield

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C avem a n C h e m i s t r y
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View Full Version : Caveman Chemistry

They say tha t it is evil, an indiscrim inate destroyer of all in its path. They say that its prop er abode is the p it. They say that he
who would be its master m ust, little by little, inevitably become its slave. They say that to consort with it is to risk th e utter
annihilation of the wh ole world. And yet, from a tim id brute, it has crowned the m aster of all Nature. In a wasteland of its own
m aking did I find it starving and gasping. The destroyer of worlds reduce d to a silent gray infant. With m y own breath did I
restore its co mplexion until the m urky dusk gave way to the gentle dawn. With my own he art did I incubate and nurture it until
the savage winter gave way to an early spring. W ith my own hand did I feed it until at last its forked tongue licked at m y
fingers and, for the first tim e in m y life, I was not afraid. My child, can ye feel the warmth of its gentle touch? Beware its teeth,
lest it bite thee. Old and tired am I now and can care fo r the infant no longer. W ho will feed it when I am gone? Who will guide
it with wisdom? Who will protect it from its enem i e s ? W h o will tame its terrible wrath? My child, have ye the will to bring the light
into the world? C herish these tools for the day that ye find need of them.
C a v e m a n C h emistry (http://cavemanchem istry.com/cavebook/)
It's -20* F. here tonight. I'm m a k i n g a b i g p o t o f h a m , p a s t a a n d b e a n s o u p o n a n a t u r a l g a s f l a m e . I ' m c h e c k i n g t h e f u r n a c e

occa sionaly (I'm the boiler operator in the building I live in) and planning a camp aigne of mixing when I go back into the pyro
shop (after it warms up a bit!)
Fire is our friend... Ex cept whe n it isn't. (Oh, did I mention haveing a cou p l e o f b e e r s ? )

I was particularly intruigued with the distillation apparatus that you recom m e n d e d o n a n o t h e r t h r e a d ( f r o m the cavem a n
chemistry site.) In a pinch, it should work well. You guys should go there and check it out.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > So you think you're good at math?
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Ingenuity lies in doing things differently, as they say. Riddles are great mind openers, allowing one to "think outside the ellipsoid". A mind which is regularly stimulated is more
likely to be succesful at solving tricky problems in real life.
Have a close look at the following image:

http://mercury.walagata.com/w/joydeepb/pic23805.gif
So, what's the hitch, assuming there is one? If you think you have the answer, you could post a mathematical / analytical explanation here.
The question was not mine, but a friend passed it on to me after he was flummoxed. If you've already come across it before, or if you find the question insulting to your
intelligence, my humble apologies.
Another one:
x^2 = x + x + x + x + .... {x times}
Differentiating both sides with respect to x,
2x= 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + .... {x times}
But, LHS= 2x, while RHS = x

What's gone wrong? ;)
If anybody else has any other interesting math riddles, they could add them here, I'm sure others will be interested in them too.

I don't know if you wanted us to post solutions here, but since it's not "real" riddles, here are my answers:
The image in the link you posted has a trick behind it, IIRC the lines aren't exactly straight. The thing with the equation is easy: Differentiation isn't an equivalent modification
<expression?>, e.g. differentiating both sides of the equation x = 1 yields 1 = 0 which is something totally different.
Marvin January 30th, 2004, 09:08 AM

It took me several mins to spot the problem. While all the lines are straight the red and green triangular sections have different angles. In one configuration they stick out from
the hypothetical 'hypotenuse' and in the other they are within. The difference in this very shallow area is exactly the same as the square that apears (it has to be).
Differentiation of both sides only works to give identical answers when the equations are exactly and always equivalent. Expanding to x + x + x .. x times is only valid for
integer steps so it is not the same as x^2, a condition differentiation doesnt even work with (smooth always valid and single valued (for any given x) functions only).

Another one:
x^2 = x + x + x + x + ....
This equation is mathematically false to begin with.
You're assuming that x^2 equals the infinite sum of x, which isn't true ofcourse.
YayItGoBoom! January 30th, 2004, 07:09 PM

I'm going with the angle theory as well. I printed the sheet out and cut out the triangles, and the red triangle in the one with the gap is just a tiny bit smaller than the triangle
on top. Its hardly noticeable, but I think its enough to account for the gap.

You cut off part of the quote vulture,
x^2 = x + x + x + x + .... {x times}
More formally,
x2 = x1 + x2 + ... + xx-1 + xx
In terms of integer mathematics it is correct,
For example,
3*3 = 3 + 3 + 3
4*4 = 4 + 4 + 4 + 4
Differentiation is more along the lines of answering a question that a 'rearengement'. Its an operator in other words. The question it answers is 'what is the equation that
describes the way my functions gradiant changes with respect to x'. This question isnt valid for an integer expansion.
YayItGoBoom!,
In terms of the triangles, just look at the gradiant of the triangles, do this by counting the squars. They are different, and that means one is more shallow than the other. If you
are building a hill and put the shallow one first and the steep one on top the slope is 'concave'. If you put the steep one first and the shallow one on top, the slope is 'convex'.
A concave slope takes up less volume/area than a convex one. Since the shapes that form this are fixes in area, this volume is displaced from under them. The shapes under
are designed to fit exactly into a 3 by 5 oblong and fit within a 2 by 8 oblong (leaving a single gap and completing the illusion).
When simply looking at the problem the brain makes it a little simpler than it really is, and both sets seem to fit within the same 'large triangle'. The square is a simply different
shape to the space it displaces and its a distance away from where it comes from.
This is a very clever problem. Now dont I just wish I was smart enough to be able to design something like this.
T_Pyro January 31st, 2004, 01:43 PM

Regarding the triangle problem, succinctly put, Marvin. Martians: 1 Earthlings: 0.75
My solution: (Highlight to read)

Actually, the "outer" triangle has an area of 32.5 square units, but the shaded regions cover only 32 square units. In the first figure, the perimeter is such that the "hypotenuse"
is concave, so that the enclosed area is 0.5 square units less than it should be. In the second figure, the "hypotenuse" is convex, so it takes up 0.5 square units more than it
should, so the difference in the enclosed area and the shaded area is 1 square unit, which is shown as the "gap".
The second problem, however, has more to it than meets the eye. If the flaw was just the fact that x has to be an integer, the equation (with some constraints) would have
held good for the set of integers. However, that isn't the case.
Marvin: Notation of the form x1 , x2 , x3 etc. are (by convention) used to denote a series of constants, not variables.
Rhadon: The differential form of an equation is exact, and there are no doubts whatsoever about that. If y=x, dy=dx holds good. In your example, the differential form itself
is incorrect. It should be 1dx = 0. This is true of course, since as x is a constant, dx=0. In the equation stated in the problem, both sides are in terms of x, so the "dx" factor
cancels out.
Hint: The flaw is a fundamental one, and has to do with how the quantities are treated in the equation.
fire vs. water January 31st, 2004, 06:01 PM

here's an interesting equation (I don't know if that's what you can call it...but..)
a=b
ab=b^2
a^2-b^2=ab-b^2
(a-b)(a+b)=b(a-b)
(a+b)=b
a+a=a
2a=a
2=1
^ = in the power of
if anyone wants to think about this one, I will post what the "catch" here is, in a few days' time.
nesler January 31st, 2004, 06:07 PM

The transition fromt he second to the third step doesn't make any sense.
glith January 31st, 2004, 06:44 PM

T-pyro has the right answer. since the area that the difference between the concave hypotenuse and the convex hypotenuse is a square.
devilassassin January 31st, 2004, 07:12 PM

From step 4 to step 5 u are dividing by (a-b). But since a=b then (a-b)=0 and you cannot divide by zero as that answer is undefined. Thats why it does not work.
T_Pyro February 1st, 2004, 05:10 AM

The third statement is arrived at by subtracting b2 from both sides, so we get,
ab-b2=b2 - b2
But, since b=a, b2=a2
hence, ab-b2=a2 - b2
Elementary, Fire vs. water! The solution is: (highlight to read)
The error (and an unpardonable one at that) lies in the transition from the fourth to the fifth step. Since a=b, a-b=0 Therefore, if we cancel the (a-b) term from both sides,
we're actually performing division by zero, which, of course, is undefined. The following example illustrates this same mistake:
a=2
a*0=2*0
but, 2*0=0, so, a*0=0
cancelling 0 from both sides, a=1
Which, of course, is incorrect. You cannot divide any number (not even 0 itself) by 0.
Marvin February 1st, 2004, 07:41 AM

"If the flaw was just the fact that x has to be an integer, the equation (with some constraints) would have held good for the set of integers. "
I dont understand how this can be true.
By definition, the derivitive of a point depends not on that point itself, but on what the function is doing immediatly either side of that point. In the case of an integer only
function, it is doing nothing either side of that point. So it doesnt seem meaningful for it to even have a devivitive. Furthur more it should be possible to produce an indefinite
number of continuous functions that satisfy the same points as the integer function, but pass through the points at totally different angles, a series of solutions should result
which are not consistant with eachother, and therfore cannot be singly consistant with the integer solution. Regardless of any sane contraints I can think of.
So I cant see how it can be true.
The more 'formal' method I used for the expansion may be more suited to constants, but it is taught here for progressions, particually proofs by induction where it is used to
label iterations of a function. Since X is mearly the simplest function of X, it seemed to fit. Do you label functions a different way for induction proofs?
T_Pyro February 2nd, 2004, 03:59 PM

"If the flaw was just the fact that x has to be an integer, the equation (with some constraints) would have held good for the set of integers. "
Back to the basics of differentiation:

Differentiation of a function f(x) gives another function f'(x) that shows how the function varies with a change in x for the domain of f(x). For most of the functions that we
come across, the domain is the set of real numbers, where the "smallest increment" is dx, where dx->0. Hence, f'(x) for the domain of real numbers is ( f(x+h) - f(x) )/h
where h->0. For the set of integers, however, the operation will have to be redefined for the smallest increment possible, which is 1. Hence, differentiaition of f(x) in a world
where only integers exist, would be f'(x) = ( f(x+1) - f(x) )/1 . Redefining the operation of differentiation, one could handle complex numbers too, provided you work out the
corresponding relationships.
Such a model complies with all our notions of "differentiation", including the one you mentioned about the infinite indefinite functions. If you see the analogue of such a
situation in the integral domain, you'll notice that it holds good. In the real domain, if 2 points are finitely close, there can be infinite curves made to pass through the points
with infinitely different tangents, like you said. However, if the points are infinitessimally close, there can be only 1 such curve. Well, if the domain is an integral one, you'll
realise that in the defined set of numbers (namely, integers), a difference of 1 is an infinitessimal change!
For mathematical induction, we take in general any "n"th term, and call it Next, Tn is defined for n, and then the series evaluated/ manipulated/ equation proved/ whatever.
eg. ex = Summation(n=0 to n=infinity) Tn
where Tn = xn/n!
Rhadon February 3rd, 2004, 02:36 PM

Your second problem has indeed more behind it than I thought at first. Anyway, differentiability is only defined for certain vector spaces, fields and subsets of the latter, e.g. Rn
and C. N and its subsets are none of them, for reasons Marvin has already stated; at least I believe he's right.
I think that regarding dx as a "smallest increment" can be done to illustrate what it shall resemble, but actually there is no such thing as a "smallest increment" where
numbers are dense, of course. In N that's something else, so there is one more reason for the necessity to re-define the term "differentiable". But if you do that, in
general it will be wrong to think that you can still use what you know about functions which are differentiable in the common way. You don't even know if e.g. d/dn
nm = m nm-1 unless you prove it.
Edit: Well, if you regard N as an integral domain, N is dense (in N), but I think that it's still necessary to re-define the term "differentiable".

By saying that it's necessary to "re-define the term "differentiable"", I think what you mean is to "rename" the new operator. Redifining a function is done by changing the
way it operates on the supplied parameters.
OK, the answer:

If y=x*n, the statement y=x + x + x + ... {n times} is true only if n is independent of x. Otherwise, while rewriting the expression (or framing the identity), the degree of the
expression itself is altered, since x (the number of terms) has been treated as a constant. The fact is again proved by the result we get from differentiation. While
differentiating this identity, we take into account the change in the value of x, but not the change in the number of terms itself!
Marvin February 6th, 2004, 04:31 PM

I couldnt for the life of me figure out why expanding in x implied that was a constant, I think that clears that up for me :)
Rhadon does indeed mean that for integers differentiation needs to be redefined, as the same method does not give correct answers.
I'm not happy that is 'the answer' as other mistakes have to happen before you get that far. Its certainly hard to spot and it completly foxed me. Taken as is, the left side is
correct. The first step on the right side is a mistake, as it produces an equation only valid for integers. If we continue the expansion is correct, but applying differentiation isnt,
for the reason youve mentioned, and also because differentiating an integer only function isnt meaningful and contravenes the assumptions of calculus. However small a dx of
1 is, its still finite.
If we add the assumption to the problem that x only has to be integer valued, then differentiating the left hand side as before is not a valid operation, and the result is
unsurprisingly wrong. The expansion is correct on the right hand side, but differentiating is an incorrect operation on for both prior reasons. We could define a correct version of
calculus, but then we'd have to explain its derivation from first principles, and its too easy to simply fall over the correct answer (ie not conceal the fact we are aiming for a
false one).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Massive EGDN yeilds?
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Sonny Jim January 30th , 2004, 08:27 AM

Does anyone else get insanely good yeilds with EGDN? Every time I m a k e i t i m a m a z e d . J u s t t h e r e I u s e d 2 0 0 g A N , 3 0 0 m l
H 2 S o 4 a n d 5 0ml EG, and have a final yeild of 150ml.
Thats one thing, and also, does anyone else find EGDN very syrupy. Unlike NG, when I tilt my container of EGDN it takes tim e
for all of the EGDN to shift to the sam e angle, like treacle.
I was just wondering if any of you have observed the sa m e .
grendel23 January 31st, 2004, 04:46 AM

The EGDN I have m ade is not viscus at all, it is only slig htly thicker than water.
There is also a problem with your yield , you are starting with 50ml of EG, that is 5 5.65g, which corresponds to .897 m o l e s o f
EG. A 100% yield wou l d b e a n e q u a l m olar am ount of EGDN, that would b e 1 3 7 . 9 g . T h a t a m ount of EGDN would be 91.9m l.
Y o u a p p e a r t o h a v e s e r i o u s p r o b l e m s with your synthesis. Are you using pure EG? the use of unpurified antifreeze m ay b e you r
problem .
I would dispose of your "EGDN" ASAP, it is im pure at best.
blindreeper January 31st, 2004, 06:16 AM

Perhaps there could be water present in your EGDN?
Sonny Jim January 31st, 2004, 08:05 AM

Yea that m ay well be it. After spending the night in a dessoicator with calcium chloride it has gone down in volum e significantly,
and turned clear. U pon weighing it turned out to weigh only 92g. It still appears thick, but to hell with that. I've added it to
500g prilled AN from m y 25KG bag, so it wont be around for m uch longer.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C an you help?
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TheHitMan February 2nd, 2004, 05:10 PM

C a n y o u h e l p ? W hile out walking I found this in a local airsoft woodland. I've taken som e pictures of it and would like som e
information on what kind of m agazine it is and what weapon it belongs too.
Sorry the pictures are not too great, they were taken with one of those cheap "key ring digital cam eras".
I m a g e 1 ( h t t p : / / i m g.villagephotos.com / p / 2 0 0 4 - 1 / 6 2 2 0 7 7 / D i g i C a m 002.jpg)
Thanks for any help!
This is anoth er link for the image in case those don't show up. You can find them here (http://www.geocities.com/nam itheht/
inde x . h t m )
Wild Catmage February 4th, 2004, 09:38 AM

The valves at the top and bottom of the m ag suggest the weapon is gas powered. The shape of the bottom of the m a g
suggests it is a pistol. I'm not sure about the logo at th e bottom of the m ag, but I'll look into it.
W hat kind of capacity does the mag have? Anything into the thirties, and it's probably not a standard m a g . C o u l d y o u g e t
s o m e photos from further away, as it's hard to picture the whole mag from the closeups.
T h e l o g o a n d s h a p e o f t h e s l i d i n g t h i n g t h a t p u s h e s t h e b b ' s u p s u g g e s t s t h a t i t i s n ' t m ade by Tokyo Marui (their slides have

grooves on to aid grip).
TheHitMan February 5th, 2004, 10:00 AM

W ild C a t m a g e, I think it's definitely for a pistol. It has a capacity of around 30, any more and the spring is really squashed.
I t o o k s o m e more pictures the ruler is standard 15cm /6 '. I also took a picture of the side which has a groove, was this the
groove you were talking about?
The new pictures are here: http://www.geocities.com/nam itheht/index.htm

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Hamas, PLO and the tactics
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TreverSlyFox February 3rd, 2004, 10:00 PM

S o m ething that's always bothered m e is the tactics of Ham a s a n d the PLO in usin g suicide bom bers against civilians. Mostly
because the tactics don't work, they've been using this for years and the Israelis just aren't im pressed by it.
The whole idea is to create an envirom ent where the target can't operate in current conditions and succumb s to your dem a n d s .
T o m e , i t w o u l d s e e m to be a better opperation to target infrastructure rather than population. Target bridg es, power stations,
water supply, fuel storage, shipping, com munications, m a n u f a c t u r i n g a n d f o o d p r o c e s s i n g .
The cost to Israel in people isn't m uch of a cost really. Ok, so you blowup 10 people and wound 25, so wha t? Their family and
a f e w n e i g h b o r s a r e s a d d e n e d f o r a m o n t h o r s o b u t t h e n l i f e g o e s o n ( a s it has for the past 10 years). By the same token
blowup a power statio n that ta kes 6 months or a year to rebuild and you im pact a lot more people over a longer period of
tim e . T a k e o ut water supplies and a whole lot of people spend the next 6 months hauling water to their hom es and can't flush
the toilets with ease. Take out the fuel supply and people start walking where the y use to drive or ride a buss. Take out
m anufacturing facilities and you take jobs and the product that was supplied. Tak e out com minications and people can't use
the phone, watch dub bed "Bay W atch" on their TVs and the internet doesn't work anym ore.
The whole point is to im pact the largest amoun t of people for the longest period of tim e a n d a t t h e s a m e t i m e d e m onstrate
that the current Government is no longer in control all the while increasing the cost of doin g busine ss and Governm ent. Blowing
up a buss load of kids just pisses people off and strengthens their resolve. You get their attention when they flip the switch
and the lights don't com e on, when they twist the faucet the water doesn't flow, the job they had ju s t e n d e d b e c a u s e t h e
building isn't there any m o r e a n d t h e y ' e r w a l k i n g b e c a u s e n o o n e h a s a n y gas to sell.
I f H a m as and the PLO had spent the last 10 years attacking infrastructure do you think Israel would have held out this long?
ossassin February 3rd, 2004, 10:13 PM

The security is tighter over there than you'd ever believe. There's no way that someone could sneak explosives past those
g u a r d s . T h e y ' v e b e e n b l o w i n g u p p o p u lated areas, because they're easily accessable.
Bert February 3rd, 2004, 11:47 PM

You may not understand the viewpoint of either party. The bom bers aim is (personally) re venge for the shit way they have to
live. Their controllers strategic aim currently is to polarize the situation and prevent any settlem ent with Israel, they want to
e s c a l a t e t h e v i o l e n c e a n d k e e p a n y o n e o n e i t h e r s i d e f r o m b e i n g a b l e t o comprom ise. The current Israeli governm ent wants
t h e s a m e thing, oddly enough. Both sides want the whole loaf, neither wants to share. Both think they can win a total victory-
In the case of the radical Israelis, this would mean the expulsion or death of ALL Palestinians in every area they control and
keeping the land they grabbed during 1967. For the radical Palestinians, they want to thro w the Jews into the sea- Remem b e r
when a Muslim murdered Sadat for wanting to comprom i s e ? R e m e m ber when a Jew killed Yitzhak Rabin for the sam e r e a s o n ?

no, no, no
T h e b o m b e r s W ANT to kill Israelis. They'd prefer to kill Israeli soldiers, a nd since a lot of soldiers travel by bus, they are a
popular target, but th ey would kill any israeli th ey can.
And you're trivialising the effect that the bom bers have on Israeli life. Yo u reckon that life goes on after a m onth or so? R ight
now there's a m a s s i v e p t s d p r o b l e m i n Israel, people are conscious all the tim e o f anything unusual, guard s on restaurants,
shops and so on.
T h e r e a s o n s u i c i d e b o m bers are there is because things are so tight that any other m ethod is unlikely to succeed. Any
suspicious package left around will be reported and dea lt with in minutes. (The IRA invented the "proxy bom b", where they raid
your house in the middle of the night, then get you to drive your car, plus bomb to the target. Tha t would be harder in Israe l,
but I'm surprised it hasn't at least bee n tried) Also, the palestinian terrorists don't have the resources to m a k e a n y m e a n i n g f u l
im pact on the Israeli infrastructure.
I was always angry that the IR A etc felt the need to shoot soldiers and blow up bars full of civilians. They could easily have
paralysed England with a few well placed devices as you describe , but England is a VERY different country to Israel - tougher
p e o p l e i n a h a r d e r p l a c e , m uch m ore attuned to terrorism and surrounde d by enemies - they've just got a tougher outlook!
ronald February 5th, 2004, 12:12 PM

I dont see how you can link PLO and Hamas or other militant organisatio ns...
T h e s u i c i d e b o m bers themselves mostly do it because of revenge, when their son/taughter/father/m other/b rother/sister/
whatever has been killed. Everything to live for, has been taken away from them by the je ws: job, fam ily and a place to live.
There just no other reasonable thing to do.
The militant organizations dont have any other options left, to a ttack israel. If they could they'd better atta ck the soldiers or
infrastructure, than civilians.
Saying that innocent civilians are being attacked, is wrong.
1) Israel is a d e m ocratic country and those civilians have chosen the option to take the land from the arabs.
2) Almost an y Israeli civilian is also m e m ber of the IDF.
3) Living on occupied land, wh at even UN says isnt their, makes the civilians more like an occupyin g army, than "innocent
civilians".
W ho knows, m a y b e b y some international law, killing jews on the occupied territories is legal.
MrSamosa February 6th, 2004, 11:18 PM

T h i s h a s b e e n pointed out before, but I should elaborate a bit. The Israeli bus company is owned by the Government and it
duals as transportation for the Arm y. If you loo k closely at casualty lists from a bus bombing, you will find that most often, the
m ajority of them are soldiers are settlers... I remem ber one incident in Jerusalem where 17 were killed on a bus; 13 of them
were soldiers, 2 were settlers, and 2 were tragically civilians.
Also, the Palestinians-- particularly HAMAS, being the m o s t o r g a n i z e d o f t h e g r o u p s - - e n g a g e i n m ore operations th a n a r e
reported. It's m ostly the "m osquito" harrassm ent kind of resista nce. The targets are occupation soldiers and settlers. This
t a k e s t h e f o r m o f m o rtar attacks, rocket attacks, sniping, etc. These occur on a daily basis. The suicide bom b is their "weapon
of m ass destruction," and is u sually a revenge weapon. If you notice, they only take place after Israeli Air-raids or Incursions...
It's a way of saying, "What go e s a r o u n d c o m e s a r o u n d , " I g u e s s .
True, with a better cam paign-type plan, they m ight be more successful. However, the "Intifada" m imics the successful
"Moqawam a" in Southern Lebanon-- a war of attrition. If I were in control of them, I would focus all the resistance on one
particularly important city at a time. If they can get full control of Q alqilyah, for exam ple, they would have an easy gateway/
stag ing area into Israel. If they could better control Jenin and Nablus, the resistance would be m uch stronger (as these are the
beds of resistance). If they ca n control Rafah, then importing arm s would be easier.
As it is though, the Intifada is degenerating into low-level but brutal violence. You're right, it is time for HAMAS, Isla mic Jihad,
and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs to rethink their strategy.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > O ne tim e encryption
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devilassassin February 4th, 2004, 02:04 AM

I a m looking for a program th at will encrypt som ething, a word docum ent in paticular so that after the docum ent is decrypted
once it will delete itse lf or encrypt itself with a d ifferent password. This is because I have n otes dictated to me from s c h o o l a n d
then I type them out when I get home so its easier for m e to read. I soon discovered there was a market for this type of thing
in m y class so I hand ed out copies the file- hoping m y classm ates would be honest and not sell th em off to other p e o p l e a n d
stea ling m y hard work. But it turns out people weren't so honest. So this year I was thinking that if I could find a program that
after encryption only could decrypt once I would be able to stop this "theft" so I alone ben efit from m y work financially.
Ollie Snowie February 4th, 2004, 02:41 AM

W ell you wouldn't need very strong encryption would you?
I was thinking along the lines of a batch file with "echo ___" distributed around with lots of "___>nu l" com mands in just to
m ake it more difficult to copy & paste. Then just put "del ___" at the end. It's very easy to crack but it would take a long time
to copy & paste all those lines. I can't see anyonwe being particularly bothered to do that. It would take a fair tim e t o d o t h e
encryption th o u g h . T o s t o p s o m eone just getting rid of the "del ___" at the end, you could hide it in a self extracting zip file
and include a com m a nd to delete the zip file as well.
GibboNet February 5th, 2004, 03:30 AM

Could you hand out printed copies ? Not m a n y p e o p l e a re going to scan / ocr them t h o u g h s o m e will find a photocopier.
You could use PGP, and the 'secure viewer' option, so they can read it on screen, but never copy it or print it.
Rhadon February 5th, 2004, 08:09 AM

You could use PGP, and the 'secure viewer' option, so they can read it on screen, but never copy it or print it. They could still
t a k e s c r e e n s h o t s a n d print these afterwards, but it would be a bothersom e process if it's a long text.
A better idea than encryption is to m ake different versions of your text by applying m inor but unique changes to it which
nobody takes notice of (double spaces, etc.). It's not m uch work and every person you give the text to gets a unique one. If it
spre ads afterwards and you see a "published" version o f what you wrote, all you have to d o is to search for the uniq u e c h a n g e
you hid and you know who published it.
devilassassin February 5th, 2004, 07:41 PM

I had thought of the printing idea but that will go through a hell of a lot of ink and if I raised the p rice I doubt m any people will
buy it. As for double space thing, most people would leave their notes at hom e so it would be hard for m e to find out but I
would see the occasional one. Anyway if I did see who d id it, what am I s u p p o s e d t o d o b e a t h i m up- Im not exactly the tallest
or stongest person of the bunch. Its better to try and prevent it. And O llie Snowie I have no idea what your post means. But
thanks for th e i d e a s s o f a r g u y s .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Has some one on the forum
been up to n o good?
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I'd like to think this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h i/england/staffordshire/3457965.stm ) was one of our lot, but it strikes me as
bein g just a m alfunction.
Funny though eh:)

M y , l o o k s l i k e s o m e o n e f l u s h e d a B I G c h e r r y b o m b. BTW - W h a t m a k e s t h e s e l o o s " s u p e r " ?
Blackhawk February 5th, 2004, 05:21 AM

S o m ething to do with them b e i n g a u t o m atic which probably means you pay to enter ;) I som ehow doubt that water rushing
back into a toilet would m a k e i t e x p l o d e l i k e t h at, especially due to an electrical fault, I m ean I can see the thing blowing if a
water main ruptured under it but an electrical surge? W hat are they storing their flushing water at a high pressure or
s o m ething? It seems a little im p r o b a b l e t o m e .

I guess the water touched one of those powerlines, flashboiled and the resulting steam pressure ruptured the cabin.
BAN PUBLIC TO ILETS! BAN! BAN! BAN! THEY CAN BE ABUSED BY TERR O R I S T S ! T E R R O RISTS!
I t h o u g h e v e r y t h i n g e x p l o s i v e h a d t o b e b a n n e d? :rolleyes:
Flake2m February 5th, 2004, 02:06 PM

W ell atleast the toilet didn't spray sewage everywhere. Otherwise there would have been a real shitstorm (pun intended) over
the "technica l problems".

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Brainwashing Manual
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Nihilist February 5th, 2004, 09:45 PM

http://www.am berell.com/campaign/Brainwashing.pdf is a m anual on the topic of brainwashing written by the guy that started
the church of scientology, L. R on Hubbard. The church o f scientology originally started out as a con fidence scam in which
people would slowly b e indoctrinated into this religion and forced to give up their m oney and free labor. However, his methods
were so effective that he him self began to believe in his religion.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Piracy Raids In Australia
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T h e F e d s h a v e r a i d e d t h e o f f i c e s o f K a zaa in Australia over piracy. According to th e m edia the Feds searched not just the ofices
b u t a l s o h o m e s o f t h e b u s i n e s s m en involved.
The Feds are trying to crackdown on piracy, because the record companies are losing money. I got this from the channel 7
news and there was n o m ention of the artists apart from a m o n t a g e o f K y l i e M i n o g u e m usic vids *starts drooling*.
Do any other m e m b e r s h a v e a n y m o r e d e t a i l s o n t h e s e r a i d s ?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > basic fiream care qurestion
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concrete feet February 6th, 2004, 07:16 AM

I rescently bought a new Ruger 10/22 and was wondering, as this is the first rifle with a no n synthe tic stock I actualy care m uch
about and would like to start putting m ore care into my firearms, if there is any reason I shouldn't weather seal and finish the
inne r areas of the stock such as the re ciever and trigger assem bly reccess and under the butt-plate.
I can't think of any reason not to but I thought I'd ask in case soem one who knows better than I would care to comm ent.
I d o n ' t p l a n t o d o m u ch sanding of the intetrior [to preserve the fit of the reciever and trig ger gaurd, but I have com e to
appreciate the beauty of a wood stock and would like to preserve the life of this one and any future firearm s I buy.
I m ight have been able to find inform ation on this in the forum s here, but was unsure of how I would go about searhing for
such a specific question; hence, I foun d no results.
A-BOMB February 6th, 2004, 12:02 PM

I t d e p e n d s o n what your going to do with it unless your going swim ming with it I wouldn't its just m ore work waterproof sections
of the stock that will never see water unless you dunk your rifle in water.
TreverSlyFox February 7th, 2004, 01:01 AM

Actually it's quite a good idea and have done such with every wooden sto ck I have since I got out of the m ilitary. It doesn't
t a k e m uch m oisture to swell wood and any perssure exerted on the barrel will cha nge your PO I from your PO A. It's easy and
cheap insurance to avoid any problem s later. A little Boiled Linseed O il will do nicely.

"basic fiream care qurestion"?
Could we PLEASE get m ore than half of the words in a four word sentence that's the title of a thread spelt correctly...PLEASE?!
A little gram m er helps im m e n s e l y .
ossassin February 10th, 2004, 01:52 AM

I've never tam pered with any of the wooden stocks on my rifles, and i've never had a single problem with them .
EDIT:
By the way, this is OT , but I've noticed that my "rank" h a s b e e n c h a n g e d to "Registered U ser." Wa s t h a t s u p p o s e d t o h a p p e n?
It doesn't seem to have happened to anyone else.

M i n e h a s b e c o m e r e g istered user too, I notice so have a few others. I also notice that it is only the new posts in this thread
that have different ranks, but I think that is just coincidence.

Don't worry, things lik e that are being sorted. C heck the bug-report thread in Forum Matte rs if you want to discuss stuff like
this.
Let's keep this thread on topic.
concrete feet February 10th, 2004, 03:07 PM

well then, given the responses i have gotten, i will leave it be for now. i m ay still decide to weather seal in the future though.
thanks to all who replied.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Buying/Finding Glassware
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Zeitgeist February 11th, 2004, 11:04 PM

Are the lab suppliers generally less suspicious of you getting glass ware then they are of you buying chemicals? Like are they more likely to deal with an individual?

Definitely. Unless the suppliers are only for bulk, they don't mind catering to individuals. Asking for chemicals results (usually) in the usual rigamarrole: "For what? Why? ...".
Asking for glassware will result only in: "what quantity? pyrex/polyethylene?"
Can't blame them, actually. They try their best to make sure that those who handle the chemicals know what they're doing. After all, if there's a case of an accident involving
chemicals, the dealer is the one which is generally accused of passing on chemicals to the wrong hands... However, if the supplier gets to know you reasonably well, he'll be
more trusting- in fact, he might even be able to supply you with "stuff" usually not sold freely.

Eeeebaaaayyy! :)
Goldmine for labstuff, in Europe atleast.
Large glass suppliers will sell to individuals. Ask them if they have any stuff they can't get rid off. You'd be surprised what you can get.
Bert February 13th, 2004, 10:39 AM

Eeeebaaaayyy! :) Goldmine for labstuff, in Europe atleast.
In the US at least, you might want to look at labX (http://www.labx.com/). They're an auction site for people with excess/surplus lab equipment only...
wrench352 February 13th, 2004, 03:32 PM

I have never had a chem supplier ask what I wanted chems for( I think they'd rather not know :) ). Do youself a flavor and dont use a CC if you can (Patriot Act). Further
more I dont think there's a problem unless : A. your a raghead or B. your trying to buy 100lbs AN or C. your a complete dufus and completely fucks up a buy. The less said the
better and look here:
http://www.chinapharm-chemnet.com/request/buy.php3?id=buy&list_num=0
At no point does anybody say what they need the chems for. Look how pros order chems, if there is no order form or you are making an inquiry,use the proper name,use the
CAS# and include the chemical formula,thats it,no small talk,business.
If I talk with them at all its to work out payment,shipping and availability.
Ebay is where I get most of my supplies from,althought the auctions are getting pretty cutthroat and alot of people are now using sniper programs.If you have to use the buy it
now option I dont see much advantage at all.
To kind of prove a point,does anybody know anybody who has been busted buying chems?If so what was the fuck up? Personally and Ive done alot of research, I have'nt seen
much unless your buying from a place like this:
http://www.dntchemicals.com/
Yay!

Yeah, i know about Ebay, there are good things occasionally on Ebay AU, but the good things are rare
http://www.islandgroup.com/
On the subject of buying chems,

I wonder if they will sell to individuals :)
tmp April 9th, 2004, 02:30 AM

Paying by credit card is not an entirely bad idea:
This is from the DEA's own website. It's part of the guidelines they give to
people who sell chemicals about suspicious ordering:
"Customer who prefers to pay by cashiers check, postal money order, etc.
Customer who desires to pay cash."
Also California has a requirement for its chemicals / labware sellers. Any order
over $100(not just chemicals either) must be reported to the California
Department Of Justice. One California pyrotechnic supplier on the net stated
this clearly and advises all customers to keep their orders under $100.
Just thought I'd pass this information along.
Mendeleev April 9th, 2004, 12:18 PM

The island group sells RDX, HMX, TNT, sodium azide. They most likely won't sell anything to individuals. As far as the California law goes, just make 10 $99 orders, problem
solved.
Edit: Holy shit people, stop yer grinnin' and drop yer linen', I just found the cheapest freakin' lab supplier. I do not know if it has been mentioned before, but http://
www.thesciencefair.com . 1000 mL separatory funnel for $27.95, 1 L Erlenmeyer for $7.98, cheap burner for around $13. Okay so http://www.sciplus.com is also good, but this
is the best deal I have ever seen for a separatory funnel. I am buying one. They also have some good really non-jointed distillation gear, coat it with teflon or aluminum and
you've got yourself a nitric still. And they cater to individuals. Good shit eh? Also check this out, search froogle for nitric acid, or I will save you the trouble: http://
www.google.com/froogle?q=nitric+acid . It's Only $180!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Largest
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bigbang February 11th, 2004, 11:47 PM

I tried to search but did not find this question asked. If it has been, sorry, I will k e e p l o o k i n g .
W hat is the largest charge of anything you have "thought" about setting off?
Mine would b e last 4th of July, a 4in shell containing 1.5 lbs of standard 70/30 flash m a d e f r o m g e r m a n d a r k H a n d K C l O 4 . I t
went off about 150 fe et in the air. Now all m y neighbors call be bigbang, hence th e n a m e. This also is what brings m e to this
site. That m u c h f l a s h g e t s e x p e n s i v e t o m a k e , I a m hoping to find a HE that will produce the sam e results much cheaper.
So far the largest HE (and only one m ade) was 4gm s of com pressed AP in a
1/2 in. diam eter tube 3in. long with an i n v e r t e d c o n e m a d e o f a l u m i n u m f o i l p r e s s e d i n t o t h e b o t t o m . Nice hole through 1/8
stee l. Powerful but not very loud. :rolleyes:
EP February 12th, 2004, 02:17 AM

W ell there are severa l reasons the pros use flash. Safety is the biggest, you don't really want to be dealing with primaries to
laun ch a shell. Also, HE's sound different, they will be sharper because you'll need a higher VoD explosive for it to work with the
m inimal confinem ent that is p o s s i b l e , s o n o k e e p A N F O b o o m s. Another big reason is ligh t output, flash will make, as the
n a m e implies, a flash! HE's have m uch lower light output.
If all you've m ade is AP (hopefully you know th is is FAR too sensitive to go in a shell!), yo u should n't be trying to m a k e l a r g e
HE charges like this.
bigbang February 12th, 2004, 09:32 AM

If all you've m ade is AP (hopefully you know th is is FAR too sensitive to go in a shell!), yo u should n't be trying to m a k e l a r g e
HE charges like this.
Yes, I know this, I wo uld neve r use any primary for a shell. To launch a ~2lb shell you need to use a hell of a lift ch arge. I
wouldn't want to trust any kind of primary in a large amount to that m uch shock. Prim aries are just what they are, Prim aries.
I a m not to concerned about the flash, I just want the n oise. Som eday I will start a thread about just that. I started this thre a d
just to see what m o s t p e o p l e h e r e h a v e d o n e i n q u a n i t y . : p
blindreeper February 15th, 2004, 06:58 AM

W ell you won't be using any HE in a sh ell if you know you can't use prim arys' in shells, think about it...
ST February 15th, 2004, 07:08 AM

T h e r e s n o r e a s o n p r i m aries are any more dangerous then large quantities of flash powder, actually I think it would be safer!
After all, HE artillery/mortars etc. do it all the tim e.
But its fact that flash powder is sim ply the best for soun d and light. Keep ing the quantity within reason, are there any HE's that
give a bright white fla sh? Ive never seen any, even when heavy with Al.
Efraim_barkbit February 15th, 2004, 08:17 AM

400+g ANNM buried in a "sand wall" in a gravel pit (word?)
The most impressive however, was 350g under a couple of dm d r y s a n d a n d s o m e h a l f m l o n g 2 x 2 i n c h w o o d e n b o a r d s . i t
produced an awesome cloud of dirt, and threw pieces of wood high as hell in the air, its h ard to te ll when your seeing the m ost
a w e s o m e sig ht you have ever seen in your who le life,... , but I guess it was well over 30m up, and 50 m away from "ground
zero ". and that was only ~350 g,.
I cant wait until I can get my drivers licence, after that, THERES NO END TO THE POSSIBILITY
krimmie February 15th, 2004, 10:22 AM

Yes, I know this, I wo uld neve r use any primary for a shell. To launch a ~2lb shell you need to use a hell of a lift ch arge. I
wouldn't want to trust any kind of primary in a large amount to that m uch shock. Prim aries are just what they are, Prim aries.
I a m not to concerned about the flash, I just want the n oise. Som eday I will start a thread about just that. I started this thre a d
just to see what m o s t p e o p l e h e r e h a v e d o n e i n q u a n i t y . : p
I f y o u a r e n o t c o n c e r n e d a b o u t t h e f l a s h , h o w a b o u t a c e t y l e n e a n d o x y g e n i n a b a l l o o n ? M a k e s o n e hell of a racket without all

the safety co ncerns. The amount of primary it would take to top the noise of 1.5 lbs. of flash is not worth the risk of an
accidental detonation. If noise is what you want, stay away from primaries and high explosives...th ey are better suited for
performing work i.e. shattering rock, trees, stum ps, sm all anim als in their holes, etc. Wha tever you do, be safe so your
neig hbors don't start calling you "bigbanged" after you get locked up.

I f y o u a r e n o t c o n c e r n e d a b o u t t h e f l a s h , h o w a b o u t a c e t y l e n e a n d o x y g e n i n a b a l l o o n ? M a k e s o n e hell of a racket without all
the safety co ncerns.
T h e o d d s o f C 2H2/O 2 in a balloon going off by static discharge are far higher than well m ade flash accidently igniting.
krimmie February 15th, 2004, 12:33 PM

T h e o d d s o f C 2H2/O 2 in a balloon going off by static discharge are far higher than well m ade flash accidently igniting.
Static will set off flash as well. When you say "well m ade flash", are you referring to the accuracy of the m e a s u r e m e n t s ? I f s o ,
a poorly m ade flash would probably take more to set off than a well m a d e o n e .
If I were to choose being involved in an accident with either, I would opt for the balloon with C 2H2/O2!
bigbang February 17th, 2004, 11:48 AM

W ith Flash I have fou nd that as long a s you are using KClO 4 not KC lO3 and just Al powder. (No Sulfur) that it is quite hard to
ignite with static. I ha ve used a 250,000 volt ta zer with the arc going righ t through a SMALL pile of flash and it will not ignite.
blindreeper: What I meant wa s that I would not m ake a shell out of just a prim ary. W ay too much primary in one place for my
taste.
Basiclly I was just looking to see if I could make shells m uch cheaper with a HE. 1.5 lbs of Flash gets expensive. But it looks
like everyones attitude is that Flash is the best for noise. I guess it is no t that ex pensive. ;)
Skean Dhu February 17th, 2004, 12:54 PM

thats why som e people choose to use rice hulls /corn co b rather than 1. lbs of anything. If you coat the fluffy m edia you could
probably use around half as m uch as it would norm ally take, not to m ention be a bit safer in respects with accidental ignition
and such.

W hat chems are you using? If you are buying germ a n d a r k a l u m inum for $27 per pound then I'm not really surprised you are
irritated by the expense. Just rem ember that there are m uch cheaper versions of flash powder that you can m a k e . T a k e n t o
t h e ( s o r t o f ) e x t r e m e f o r e x a m p l e y o u c o u l d u s e p o t a s s i u m chlo rate (~$1.5/lb in 1 lb containers) bright flake alum inum ( a h ,
not very m uch say $7 per lb) and sulfur (dirt ch eap - say about $.50 per lb).
At one time I also thought HE's m ight have a u se in m aking noise for fireworks but now I don't think they would be that great
a n y m o r e . L i k e p e o p l e h a v e s a i d t h e l o w e r b o o m s o u n d from fla s h a n d e s p e c i a l l y a g o o d B P s a l u t e i s a b e t t e r s o u n d ( B P i s a
lowe r boom than flash of course).
Just on the subject of m a k i n g l o u d n o i s e s , I r e m e m b e r a n o i s e m aker that the special effects guy at the PGI last year had. It
was basically a big steel box with som e baffles. He had it all set up so he just pressed a button an d o x y g e n a n d p r o p a n e
would inject. It m a d e o n e o f t h e l o u d e s t s o u n d s I ' v e e v e r h e a r d ( B T W I was abou t 30 m eters away from the 20 lb flash grou n d
salute set off at that convention). Standing 7 m eters in front of the box was fairly uncomfortable because of the big shock felt
(everyone was holding their ears of course). Th at's pretty close to be standing, but still I was impressed. Especially because he
can press that button pretty m uch as fast as he wants.
About the ox yacetylene bangs, I've said it before (just ask Bert) and I'll say it again that they were used in display at the last
PGI convention in the form of garbage bags full. One of them did go off accidentally durin g the show so be warned. Probably
the cause wa s a fallin g spark or possibly static. Their lig ht output isn't m uch but they do sound nice and loud (not really
spectacular). So in other words their performance is ok. But I have heard stories of accidental explosions happening when
filling them. Here is one of them (t's in there som ewhere):
Oxyacetylene story (google archive of rec.pyrotechnics) (http://www.google.ca/gro ups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-
8&safe=off&threadm =6aQg8.5618%24KA.1215233129%40newssvr10.new s.prodigy.com &rnum=5&prev=/
g r o u p s % 3 F q % 3 D o x y a c e t y l e n e %2Bhouse%2Bgroup:rec.pyro tech nics%26hl%3Den % 2 6 l r % 3 D % 2 6 i e % 3 D U T F - 8 % 2 6 o e % 3 D U T F -
8 % 2 6 s a f e % 3 D o f f % 2 6 s e l m %3D6aQg8.5618%2524KA.12152331 29%2540newssvr10.news.prodigy.com %26rnum %3D5)

Sparky: Yes I am using German Dark H, I have never tried using bright flake, from everything I've read I didn't think it would
work that well. Or is that why you are a dding su lfur and using chlorate vs perchlorate?
S k e a n D h u : W hen you coat th e m edia do you just count on the fact that flash sticks to everything it touches? (My wife really
appreciates this :rolleyes: ) Or do you use a glue like Dextrin? Perhaps just water?

Have you considered "cutting" your flash with a triple ba s e d s m o keless powder? Alliant Bullseye runs about $13.00/lb. My
m ixture consists of 60%flash and 40% sm okeless...sure stretches your flash a bit.

krim mie: I did try cutting m y flash 50/50 and 60/40 with Bullseye last night. I was not im pressed with sub 3 gram charges.
Does it work better with more confinm ent or larger quan ites? I have been using 1/16 in. wall cardboard tubes for sm all stuff.
(3/8 in. wall for m y 4in diam. stuff)

Does it work better with more confinm ent or larger quan ites?
Sjee z! What do you e xpect! Ofcourse! :rolleyes:
How are you making your flash? Not with "spoonfulls" I hope....
S + chlorate = bad idea like m e n t i o n e d a 3 5 2 4 6 4 2 4 5 t i m es before... :rolleyes:

Aaaw, don't be mean Vulture, I think he m eant "Does it work better with m ore confinm ent OR larger quanites" which has a
m ore complex version of "Yes" as the answer.
More containm ent is the way to m ake just about any shit m i x m a k e a g o o d o l d b o o m . If you're ge tting residue of u nburnt
c o m p o u n d t h e n y o u d e f i n i t e l y n e e d m ore containm ent - set a te st charge off in a puddle, as it's the easiest way to spot the
residue - the Al m a k e s a s h e e n o n t h e s u r f a c e o f t h e w a t e r .
I a s k e d b e c a u s e I m a k e d e a f e n i n g b a ngs out of shitty paint grade Al flashpowder. 1g in a good tube will dam a g e y o u r e a r s
and eyesight if it's made prop erly.
Hell, if you can't throw together a decent casing...

vulture:
W hat I was referring to was 60/40 and 50/50 flash/bullseye m ix. a 3 gram charge of straight flash in a 1/16 wall cardboard
tube was much louder than either of the m i x e s , s o I w a s a s k i n g b a s i c a l l y i f t h e f l a s h / b u l l s e y e n e e d e d m o r e c o n f i n e m ent or
possibly a larger charge than straight flash to see the advantage. As for better co nfinement there is an upper limit when
working with o v e r h e a d c h a r g e s . I w o u ld u s e 1 / 8 i n . 3 1 6 s t a i n l e s s i f I thought it would n t com e b a c k d o w n a n d kill som e o n e .
btw there are no "spo o n s " u s e d i n m y lab, except to m a y b e m o v e s o m e t h i n g t o m y O h a u s t r i b e a m . (for $30 bucks I don't
know why everyone doesn't own one.)
Arkangel:
Thanks for the water idea, I will test th is and see if any Al is left over.

[ Q U O TE=bigbang]vulture:
W hat I was referring to was 60/40 and 50/50 flash/bullseye m ix. a 3 gram charge of straight flash in a 1/16 wall cardboard
tube was much louder than either of the m i x e s , s o I w a s a s k i n g b a s i c a l l y i f t h e f l a s h / b u l l s e y e n e e d e d m o r e c o n f i n e m ent or
possibly a larger charge than straight flash to see the advantage.
I've never mixed Bullseye with only a 3 gram charge. I found that 4 gram s f l a s h a n d 2 g r a m s Bullseye equalled a straight 6
gram charge of flash( in noise). As far as confinm ent, o nly cardboard tubes with cardboard endplugs glued on are used arou n d
here.
bigbang February 21st, 2004, 11:29 PM

vulture: I tried som e 10g charges and you are right, I can't here the difference. Maybe there is a critical size of a ch a r g e u s i n g
m ixed powder. (6g or m ore)
This afternoon I made a large snow ball with th e k i d s , 3 . 5 f e e t a r o u n d o r s o . T h e n p r o c e e d e d t o d i s m antle it quickly :D . I

u s e d a 6 g c h arge of 50/50 m ix and put it in the center of the ball. The noise wasn't the usual boom but rather just a heart
warming rum ble that you felt m ore tha n heard. Then the snow ball was no m ore.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Help Save T h e S e c o n d
Am e n d m e n t
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wrench352 February 13th, 2004, 02:55 PM

I got this em ail today.It doesnt m atter if your 18 and can vote or not. An em a i l i s a n e m a il,a phone call is a phone call. W e
need to work together on this. W ill you be part of the fight now or will you sit idlely by until they go h o u s e t o h o u s e ( I ' m s u r e
alot of y'all would like that)?Fight the Fight now in the election booths or fight it in the stre ets later. Let your representatives
know how you feel, especially you'se guys in CA.
I've noticed that in m any of the response letters from e lected officials that people have forwarded to me, they say somethin g
a l o n g the lines of "rest assured, I will oppose H.R .2038 / S.1431" while not specifically saying they will also oppose a Feinstein-
style renewal of the b an.
This doesn't necessarily m ean that there's anything devious going on... after all, no House version of S.1034 (the Feinstein/
Schumer bill that renews the ban, with som e additional restrictions on imported m a g a z i n e s ) h a s b e e n i n t r o d u c e d y e t , a n d n o t
specifically stating an opposition to Feinstein's renewal of the ba n doesn't necessarily m ean they would sup port it. But still, as
we continue to call an d write letters to our elected officials, we need to be certain to m ake it absolutely clear that we oppose
ANY effort to expand or renew the ban, not just the draconian McCarthy/Conyers/Lautenberg ban.
H . R . 2 0 3 8 , a n d i t s S e n a t e c o m panion bill, are serving their purpose well. These bills have no chance of bein g p a s s e d , e x i s t i n g
prim arily as a diversion to distract gun owners into focusing our efforts on defeating this radical expansion of the ban, and a lso
to fram e Feinstein's ban renewal as a m o r e " m o d e r a t e " c o m p r o m ise.
Neal Knox reports that it is very likely that the latter tactic will be em ployed in the Senate during th e u p c o m i n g d e b a t e o n
S.659, the ju nk lawsu it protection bill that alrea dy has a l r e a d y p a s s e d i n t h e H o u s e a n d h a s t h e s u p p o r t o f a m ajority of
Senators.
The battle fo r the ren ewal of the AW B begins in about 3 weeks... writing letters is always a good idea, but right now it's not
e n o u g h . P l e a s e t a k e j u s t a m o m ent to CALL both of your Senators, voicing your opposition to am ending a renewal of the so-
called "assault weapo ns" ban to S.659. Fortuna tely, we have the facts on our side ... the firearm s that are the subject of this
ban were never used in significant num bers even before the ban took effect, and, contrary to the blatantly false statem ents we
s e e i n t h e m e d i a a n d in anti-gun press release s, these guns do NOT fire any faster and are no m ore powerful (and in many
c a s e s , a r e m uch less powerful) than traditional-looking sem iautom atics.
You can easily locate your Senators' phone numbers here:
http://www.senate.gov/genera l/contact_informa tion/senators_cfm .cfm
Defeating the ban in the Senate would be a stunning blow to the anti-gun lobby. Do your part by m aking sure your Senators
know your stance on this issue.
http://www.awbansunset.com
http://www.awbansunset.com/forum s
T o b e r e m o v e d f r o m the Sunset News m ailing list, send an e-m ail to unsubscribe@awbansunset.com .
Keep the liberals out of the W hitehouse in Novem ber,th ey want us as sheeple!
me234 February 24th, 2004, 04:46 AM

Y o u b o y s m ust read your history:
Back in the 1930's (just bear with me) the ame rican congress declared sawn-off shotguns illeagal because they had NO
PRACTICAL USE IN A MILITARY SENSE AND THEREFORE W OULD HAVE NO USE IN THE RUNNING OF A W ELL ARMED MILITIA, if
that is the case then why are sem i-autom atic weapons of the assault rifle configuration ba nned, they have m o r e u s e i n a
civilian m ilitia than any other weapon I can thin k of, so therefore if sawn-offs are still illeagal (if they are, I'm not am erican so
I wouldn't kn ow) and they haven't changed the reason why they are, then you boys m ust argue the point that by that
m entality, assault rifles must be m ade widely available, for they have the most applications in the defense of a state/person/
m ilitia.
PLEASE, WILL YOU GUYS JUST INFORM ANY PRO-GUN SENATORS OF THIS, OR AT LEAST LET PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE BEING
FUCKED WITH BY CONGRESS BECAUSE BY THEIR OW N INDIRECT ADMISSION, THEY SHOU LD BE LEAGAL
now I know that peop le are going to tell m e that it was way back in the '30's, but does congress have to renewn the old laws
every couple of years, not to m y knowledge, laws from the '30's still stan d, so either sawn-offs must be m a d e l e a g a l , o r
assault rifles m ust, they m ust chose!
FUCKIN HOUND THEM OVER THIS PO INT< I'M BEGGING YOU ON BEHALF O F ALL GUN OWNER S THE WO RLD O VER!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Get them while you can...
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green beret February 14th, 2004, 03:10 AM

If anyone is trying to get fireworks, do so soon, shortly they will be lot tougher to get, if anyone would like the nam e o f s o m e
canberra sup pliers, I can be em ailed, or just look in the p h o n e b o o k .
There is a loophole where fireworks can be purchased in Canberra without a liscence provided they are transported out of
Canberra within six hours. The governm ent will soon be rectifing this.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Huge Meth Lab Bust Video
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TheHitMan February 15th, 2004, 11:36 AM

http://www.modbee.com/images/sheriff_drug_lab.wmv
At a press conference Monday, drug agents Lt. Marvin Harper, left, and Sgt. Mike Richards display guns and drugs found at the home on Carpenter Road in Modesto in which an
enormous meth lab was uncovered Saturday.
The inside of the house on Carpenter Road can be seen above. Agents raided the house Saturday, but the toxic fumes from the cooking of drugs were so strong the agents
retreated to put on protective gear.
Narcotics agents seized ingredients to make more than $1 million worth of methamphetamine when they raided the largest drug lab in Stanislaus County history.
Five men -- all illegal immigrants -- were in custody Monday, and authorities had cordoned off a house filled with toxic fumes and chemicals. The house is at 13660 Carpenter
Road, almost 14 miles south of Modesto and a mile north of Crows Landing Road.
Law enforcement agents showed off mounds of pure ephedrine -- the key ingredient in the dangerous stimulant, also known as crank.
Agents seized about 80 pounds of ephedrine in a car that left the house. Agents said they also found pseudoephedrine tablets in the house -- enough to produce 86 pounds of
ephedrine -- soaking in 100 gallons of solution.
Officers confiscated other chemicals as well, officials said, and assorted loaded guns.
If the cooking process had been completed, the wholesale value of the methamphetamine would have been more than $1.1 million. Officials said the street value could have
topped $6 million, after the meth had been cut with other substances or diluted.
"The capacity of this lab was huge -- bigger than we've ever seen in Stanislaus County before," said sheriff's Sgt. Mike Richards, who was among the 14 officers involved in
the raid Saturday night and Sunday morning.
Members of the Stanislaus Drug Enforcement Agency, California Multi-Jurisdictional Methamphetamine Enforcement Team and High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area team worked
on the case.
Officers said they watched the Carpenter Road house for several days last week. Surveillance started after community members tipped off authorities to suspicious activity.
"This lab, it appears, has been operating for months," sheriff's Lt. Marvin Harper said. "There's no telling how much of this poison they've been putting out on the street."
Harper said all eight rooms of the home, plus the basement and attic, were being used for cooking meth or storing supplies.
Officers obtained a search warrant for the home Saturday evening. While preparing for the raid about 7 p.m., Harper said, undercover agents saw a man carry garbage bags
from the home to a car, then drive off.
When officers pulled that car over, they discovered the 80 pounds of powdered ephedrine. The driver, Jose Aguilar Zaragoza, 36, of Mexico, was arrested on suspicion of
manufacturing methamphetamine and possession of a controlled substance for sale.
Back at the house, agents entered through the front door while at least four suspects ran out the back.
"We got about 10 feet into the residence before we had to retreat after being overcome by the fumes," Richards said.
There were meth ingredients cooking, making it hard to breathe, he said. They stayed out of the house until they could put on protective clothing and breathing gear.
Outside, officers chased suspects through tall grass, fields and the countryside with the help of a sheriff's helicopter and a dog.
The dog, Zeke, tracked down and bit the legs of two suspects, Misael Taviera, 26, and Mario Alvanez, 30, both of Mexico.
Their minor wounds were treated at a hospital, then they were booked -- along with suspect Raul Serrato Calles, 21, also of Mexico -- on suspicion of manufacturing
methamphetamine, criminal conspiracy and resisting arrest.
Also arrested was Raul Torres, 68, of Mexico, who was found in a trailer near the home. During that arrest, Torres allegedly punched one of the officers in the face, bloodying
his nose.
That officer, deputy Mike Richards Jr., is Sgt. Richards' son.
"He's OK. It's not his first bloody nose, and it won't be his last," Sgt. Richards said of his son.
Torres was booked on suspicion of battery on a police officer, resisting arrest, manufacturing methamphetamine, criminal conspiracy and an unrelated Turlock Police
Department warrant for stolen property.
All five of the suspects were being held without bail in county jail, and illegal immigrant holds had been placed on them to prevent their release.
At least one suspect got away, authorities said.
While all five of those arrested could face more than 10 years in prison if convicted under federal laws, Harper said the men were not major players in the drug trade.
"These people probably are just the cooks," Harper said.
Illegal immigrants routinely are brought into the country by drug rings to work in meth labs.
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to make meth," he said.
While this was the largest meth lab found in the county
Richards said it was the seventh lab to be uncovered since Jan. 1.
The Carpenter Road house now is considered contaminated with toxic waste. Officials said state funds will be used to clean up the pollution.
County authorities still are searching for the lab's dumping ground.
"Hundreds and hundreds of pounds of toxic waste" were produced by the lab, Harper estimated.
Additional suspects involved in the lab were being sought, but officials did not provide descriptions during a Monday morning news conference.
Here is what they said was confiscated from the house or the car that left the house:
80 pounds of pure ephedrine powder.
100 gallons of solution containing pseudoephedrine tablets.
300 gallons of alcohol.
96 pounds of red phosphorous.

30 gallons of muriatic acid.
30 pounds of iodine.
3 cases of Red Devil Lye.
Assorted generators, heating devices, cooking pots and flasks.
Empty bottles of pseudo-ephedrine tables.
Two shotguns, a rifle and a .45-caliber Tech 9 semiautomatic gun with a threaded barrel for use with a silencer.
Props to LoW_JacK.
This may be a warning to all you home chemists! What do you think on this bust?
I think the video is a little low quality for it to have been shot by someone from the DEA, after all don't they have a unlimited budget? To help protect the children of course!

Meth is the nastiest drug ever. I'm glad that lab got busted. As for getting caught for being a home chemist. I'm sure most people on this site have nothing that big going on at
their houses. So it is a lot easier to conceal your chemicals. Also, Like that Pig said it doesn't take a brain surgeon to make meth. Dumb druggies slip up and get caught much
easier than someone that is clear headed.
ossassin February 15th, 2004, 06:50 PM

Did the TEC-9 actually have a supressor? They sure were quick to assume that there was one, just because it has a threaded barrel. Also, look at how the Mexicans repay us.
We look the other way when they climb over the fence, and they start meth labs here...
wrench352 February 18th, 2004, 01:10 AM

Personally I think tobacco is the nastiest drug ever,its just more socially exceptable. The whole house was being used as a meth production plant not just a lab. Im sure it stunk
to high heaven, and all it took was one neighbor to put 2+2 together (dirty mexicans+crank stench=not in my neighborhood). More power to em I would'nt have it in my
neighborhood either.

Geez... Anyone that makes that much meth is just asking to be caught. Anyone that thinks they can get away with making that much meth is just plain stupid.
If you had watched that video you'd notice that in the last 30 seconds of so the guys in that house are wearing chemical suits. This is often because while the "cooks" are good
at making meth they aren't good at keeping the substances safe and secure. Often the chemical stored there aren't stored properly so they can be quite unstable or emit highly
toxic fumes. A real chemist would prioritize safety not money.
As for anyone thinking of starting up a meth lab: It ain't worth it, there are more legal and profitable stuff to make then meth and MDMA and the police take drug labs very
seriously.
Jacks Complete February 18th, 2004, 06:47 PM

Geez... Anyone that makes that much meth is just asking to be caught. Anyone that thinks they can get away with making that much meth is just plain stupid.
Well, Flake2m, they probably didn't think about it at all!
The guy in charge will just buy another house and get a few more illegals to countiue the "good" work. If they got 80 pounds in one stop-and-search, how much more got
away? Enough to rent a house for a few years, I bet.
The mastermind earnt more than he put in, by some margin, he will be happy. Odds are he made a chuffing fortune more, so he will carry on.
:mad:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Aluminum Powder (KMnO 4/Al/S
Flash)
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infernal February 15th, 2004, 01:02 PM

Trying to find a good source o f alum inum powd er without having to drop large am ounts of m o n e y ( a n d l e a v i n g a p a per trail).
I ' v e b e e n r e a d i n g q u i t e a b i t a b o u t m aking it in a ball mill but was wondering if the paint grade aluminum powder could be ball
m illed to work properly.
The plan is to use it in the KMnO4/Al/S flash m ixture... It was suggested using MG starter on the visco fuse would be a better
way to ensure ignition of the flash, and one could possibly get away with NOT using the S.
Any help would be wicked! :rolleyes:

a s a n u p d a t e I f o u n d s o m e a l p o w d e r t h a t s s t o cked in boat shops at a pretty decent price.

UTFSE!
T h e r e a r e s e v e r a l t h r e a d s a b o u t K M n O 4 flash.
Also, there's a thread of Sonny Jim that describes how to m ake efficient Al powder.

thanks i just read tha t over last night... i've founda supplier of flake al (400m esh ) and im getting som e s a m p l e s s h i p p e d o u t
to m e... trying to find a price on bulk shipm ents cause id rather just buy it than screw around with food processors.
pyrojunkie15 March 11th, 2004, 11:56 PM

I usually use kclo4/al flash, I Think it is m ore stable an d s a f e r t h a t a p e r m a n g n a te oxidized flash. I usually order all m y
chemical from online sites and have not had any run in with the cops. W e order everything we have in two's. My Friend orders
all the oxidizers and i order all the fuels. A reliable site (and fairly cheap) www.pyrotech.org My sug e s t i o n i s t o f i n d s o m e o n e
you can trust to help you orde r chem icals so the paper trail isn't obvious.
Doug March 15th, 2004, 04:26 PM

I t u s e d t o b e q u i t e e a s y t o g e t hold of in the UK from craft and hobby su ppliers for m a k i n g a l u m in ium castings like jewellery
and small models.
wrench352 March 16th, 2004, 01:32 AM

Did you mean http://www.pyro tek.org/?
I quite like them , although they dont have the best prices in town. I was able to buy m any things from them without any
"hassles" ;)
DirtyD an March 21st, 2004, 12:53 AM

On the pyrotek site, theres a book called "HOMEMADE 'HYDRO GEN' GENERATOR" and entails using com m o n h o u s e h o l d
chemicals to produce hydrogen. I got bored and tried the electrolysis of H2O m ethod to fill a baloon, but using a DC 12v
2 0 0 m a transformer m ade things really slow... Anyone know what m ethod they m ay be refering to?
Rhadon March 21st, 2004, 10:58 AM

I didn't have a look at PyroTech, but Kipp's apparatus (http://humboldt.edu/~scim us/Instrum ents/Kipp-Noyes/KippApp.htm ) is
a com m on and well-working hydrogen generator.
Apart from that, this thread has nothin g to do with the production of hydrogen. I approved this post, but other out-of-topic
posts will become deleted.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Kids party ideas
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Tuatara February 16th, 2004, 01:10 AM

OK. I'm going to risk asking a bunch of psychotic gun/explosive/poison enthusiasts for ideas for my daughters party :eek:
Its a 'Harry Potter' party :rolleyes: , and guess who gets to be Prof Snape :p
So I need a few ideas for simple things the kids can mix up that will do interesting stuff, like acid + carbonate = fizz, acid / base + indicator = funny color, something +
something = goo. Ideally I want four groups of kids mixing apparently identical ingredients to get very different results, (basically so I can then ball them out for screwing up
:D ).
Obviously there are a few rules: no nasty poisons, explosions or fire. Pretty much anything else goes, especially if its spectacularly messy.
Doubtless some charlie is going to post a recipe for Sarin: please don't
Hopefully there are other Dad's out there in EWF land who'll get some interesting ideas to entertain their own offspring, and the spotty kewls will have something harmless to
try while their AP is cooking.
So far I've got:

1/ Citric acid + bicarb + indicator = fizz plus color change, color variable by changing acid / bicarb ratio
2/ polymerising poly vinyl alcohol with sodium tetra borate (?) to make goo.
ps: bad smells are highly acceptable (its a bunch of 7 year olds)
Sarevok February 16th, 2004, 01:54 AM

Yawn... sounds boring. Why don't you pay someone to entertain the brats, like everyone else does?
I think that you should NOT do this. Despite your goo-making and color-changing being utterly harmless, the parents of your daughter's friends will surely sue you for exposing
their children to evil chemicals.
At least you should ask their parents before, just in case.

most people already know this, it is a very safe mixture to make is (sodium bicarbonate) bi-carb soda and vinegar. It is mixing an acid with a bace and it will bubble and fizz, it
will do no harm. you can add a bit of food dye to make it bubble colours but this might stain a bit.
i will try to find more for you.
Happy hunting. :D

i dont know where to get most of these chemicals but you could try a pharmacy or a search enigine might tell you.
i got these expriements from my school text book.
glucoce + benedicts solution + heat = orange colour.
copper sulfate solution + sodium hydroxide + geleton = dark blue jelly (not edible).
iodine solution + starch = blue to black.
because glucose and starch are present in food you can make a paste out of some foods and add the indicator.
Here are some you can use with iodine solution.
biscuit + iodine solution.
bread + iodine solution.
rice + iodine solution.
here are some you can mix with benedicts solution.
biscuit + benedicts solution

bread + benedicts solution
I dont know too much about these chemicals so you should find more infomation before you use them.
my sister has told me that corn flower AKA corn starch can be mixed with water to make a goo.
here is a good drink for the little ones. mix lemonade, coka cola, fanta. any type of fizzy drink with ice-cream it will bubble and disolve a bit and it tastes great.
Happy hunting. :D
zaibatsu February 16th, 2004, 06:10 AM

Tuatara, your second option is quite good for kids, and the stuff bounces if you add less PVA glue. However don't let the children make the same mistake as I did when I was
younger, and add food colouring to it the handle without gloves on. My hands were stained orange for quite a while after that...
EDIT: Doesn't corn starch and water act in the same way as quicksand? When you apply pressure it goes hard, but when you remove it it goes back to a liquid goo. That could
be quite informative and interesting for them.

hmmmm, mabye corn startch does. you could try it out, normel flower would work too but be messy and stick to your hands.
Tartura, tell your daughter happy birthday from me.
Skean Dhu February 16th, 2004, 11:58 AM

Yea cornstach+water does that. It becomes rigid when struck, but when pushed it moves out of the way. Theres some fancy word for it but i can't remember it.
heres a link for some "flubber" be careful it may stain the hands for a few hours if you use too much coloring
http://www.groovy-mom.com/crafty/old/000101.shtml
get a couple empty egg cartons(one for each kid or pair of kids)
then make the standard red cabbage acid/base indicator, put some in each section and add vinegar/baking soda solution to some and tell the kids they have to make a path
across by adding vinegar/baking soda until they are neutral(fill them in on the different color shades for 'too acid', 'too base' and 'just right') you can make up some story
about workers being trapped and you need to make a path to safety for them.
geta few carnations and let them dye the petals different colors w/ food coloring in teh plants water.
you could make an PH tester with some red cabbage. and get some different color changes, with some clear acids and some clear bases. The chemicals will look the same but
the color changes will be different.
dogbone103 February 16th, 2004, 03:40 PM

When you boil red caage it stink out your home and i dont think that these 7 year olds should be playing with acids or bace solutions because they are crossasive and will burn.
Tuatara February 16th, 2004, 04:34 PM

First off, thanks for the suggestions and interest.
There are plenty of 'safe' acids and bases the kids can play with - citric, tartaric,acetic acids, - baking soda, washing soda, for bases, so I'm not worried about that. I might visit
the supermarket for some 'dragonhide gloves' (latex).
I'm going to be making the pH indicator from Viola Tricolor , also know as Pansy or Heartsease. I've done it before, and the color range is magnificent (deep red through
yellow, green, blue to violet - a whole rainbow from one indicator).
I thought some precipitation reactions might be good too - CaCl2 + Na2CO3 => milky white mess from two clear solns.
Hang-Man February 16th, 2004, 05:31 PM

One that is not safe on account of the H2SO4, but is quite amusing is Sulfuric acid + sucrose. It makes a piller of carbon rise out of the beaker.

Not to belittle other suggestions, but when I was a kid things like "magic mud" (corn starch and water IIRC) and baking soda and vinegar were old hat and hence boring
(magic mud being the lesser of the two). Normally I would scorn at "making goo" and dumbed-down things but considering the party environment, you're not going to be able
to do much interesting anyways. Consider that if you treat the kids like morons they will probably get bored (first hand experience talking here).
My dad used to be a Beaver leader and being a chemist would think up something every once in a while to entertain them. I can't remember exactly what this example was
but it went something like this (it entertained 6-7 year olds fairly well but remember it's all in the presentation):
Make up some slightly basic methyl blue solution and pour it into cups. Or put some sodium carbonate solution into cups, then pour in the neutral methyl blue solution in, and it
turns pink when it enters the cup. Then the kids are challenged to blow into the cups with a straw and make the solution turn blue (from carbonic acid). Afte almost
hyperventilating ;) it would finally turn blue. Then he would come around and sneak some sodium carbonate solution into it again when they weren't looking and they would
be all baffled and have to start over (or at least the slow ones would be baffled ;)).
I know you said no flames but he once electrically (saying the magic word) started a fireplace for the beavers and it worked out really well.
Other things come to mind, like making rayon and passing the thread around as it comes out of the beaker, and chemiluminescence stuff (you could break open glow sticks).
Glass wool and 'invisible flames' from methanol (it's difficult to see in sunlight) was one of the more interesting activities.
Water rockets are fun but it may be a bit cold out this time of year.
The idea which was by far the most fun was playing with dry ice. LN2 is OK too but the typical smashing flowers gets old fast so one needs more original ideas, and LN2 is a bit
harder to get and more dangerous. Dry ice is fun because you can actually pick it up fairly easily (throw it between hands or just wear winter gloves) and play with it. My dad
would collect YOP bottles which happen to have a pop off lid to them. So after putting some dry ice in, the pressure would build up then the lid would blow off (either shoot
them at someone or become more original). Of course it doubles for use in a "witches brew" type thing. If you hold it just right on a spoon it begins to make a ringing sound.
The great thing about dry ice is you can basically hand it over and let them fool around with it which is way more fun than some supervised crap. Giving a crash course in
handling it at the beginning should be sufficient.

Hypergolic ignition with KMnO4/Glycerol perhaps
I know, get a tall, narrow glass cylinder. Mix dish detergent liquid with H2O2, high conc if you have it, about 1:1, and add a bit of KI or KMnO4. Do it outside!!!!!!!!

zaitabsu, I remember doing the same thing. Those were the days. I'd recommend one of the types of goo, as little kids like things that they can take home. The corn starch
kind is much messier than the Borax kind, so be careful. Be careful when you're cleaning up after making it, too. When I was "cooking" the other day, I , without thinking, tried
to wipe up a pile of corn starch with a wet rag. :)
Wild Catmage February 24th, 2004, 08:54 AM

Pictures drawn onto paper with KNO3 will smoulder, as the image is burnt out. The fun thing is that you can't see what the image is until its finished burning.
tom haggen February 25th, 2004, 01:51 AM

I think I have seen somewhere, a color changing demonstration where the color change takes place with impressive speed. Don't remember the colors or what chemicals they
were but this thought has been eating at me for like 5 days now. It would definitely be a fun experiment and experience for the kiddos. P.S. Harry Potter makes me blow
chunks.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Extracting Red Phosphorus
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I h a v e f o u n d on a drug web site that m a t c h p a d s a r e m a d e o f a b o u t 5 0 % r e d p h o s p h o r u s , a l o n g w i t h a b o u t 3 0 % a n t i m o n y
sulfide, and lesser amounts of glue, iron oxide, MnO2, and glass powder and when testing with som e liquids, I found that 60%
of m y m atch pads dissolved in HCL acid, I look ed at m any sites and found that a ntimony sulfide wont dissolve in the HC l acid.
My theory is it is the red phosphorus that is dissolving in the acid. So if I was to scrape off the m atch pad stuff and place it in
the HC l then filter out the other shit floating around how would I be able to get th e r e d p h o s p h o r u s b a c k o u t o f t h e H C l ?
Thanks for your help.

http://www.rhodium .ws/chemistry/rpbib le.htm l
S o a s s u m ing you aren't using it for the obvious purpose, what is it for? Arm strong's ?
I'd go and ju m p o n s o m e A P b e f o r e m aking that, from what i've heard

W hat do you m e a n ? I s t h i s s t u f f d a n g e r o u s ? I m n o t m a k e i n g m eth or anything just want to m ake a bit of impact senctive
e x p l o c i v e s . W h a t h a v e y o u h e rd about it?

For crying out loud....
Yet another n00b that doesn't have a clue. I have alrea dy told you to
DO A FUCKING SEARC H.
and BTW: making impact sensitive explosives aren't a good idea unless you like the idea of losing a hand or two.
a_bab February 16th, 2004, 12:19 PM

G e t t i n g t h e p h o s p h o r u s o u t o f p h o s p h o r u s c h l o r i d e i s a s s i m p l e a s f r o m phosphorus carbonate (furnance temperatures when
working with one of the m ost flam m a b l e c h e m s around). This question shows that your chem istry knowledg es are far from
bein g enough for starting playing with things which go boom . S o f o r y o u r ( a n d p o s s i b l e o t h e r s ) s a k e , t a k e s o m e m ore
chemistry lessons.
dogbone103 February 16th, 2004, 03:54 PM

Original post by flake 2 m .
__________________________________________________ _______________
For crying out loud....
Yet another n00b that doesn't have a clue. I have alrea dy told you to
DO A FUCKING SEARC H.
__________________________________________________ _______________
I did a fucking search. :mad:
T h a n k s f o r t h e h e l p I d i d n t know what I was dealing with until yo u told m e , b u t I a l w a y s a s k b e f o r e m a k i n g t h e e x p l o s i v e t o

m ake sure I dont loose a hand.
W h a t e x p l o s i v e m ixtures do you recom m e n d f o r a n 0 0 b s u c h a s m yself?
zaibatsu February 16th, 2004, 05:19 PM

W h a t e x p l o s i v e m ixtures do you recom m e n d f o r a n 0 0 b s u c h a s m yself?
None.
Thread closed.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C opper (II) Perma nganate
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Trying to make it, to experim ent with the Tetram i n e c o m p l e x
So far, i alwa ys end u p with what appears to be Copper O x i d e . A n y i d e a s ?
Starting from CuSO 4, but i can turn that into other salts of course. Using KMnO4 also.

Can you give details on hwo you tried this? It g reatly helps, say if som e o n e a s k e d " m y B P s u c k s , h o w d o I m a k e i t b e t t e r ? "
you would generally be pissed about the lack of detal ;)

C u S O 4 a n d K M n O 4 , i n e q i m olar am o u n t s i n a q u e o u s s o l u t i o n , a n d f i n g e r s c r o s s e d
I'm guessing the brown crap which precipitates is CuO a n d / o r M n O 2
As far as getting Cu(NO3)2 for TANN, Calcium nitrate an d CuSO 4 precipitates the insoluble Ca sulfate, so it's pretty painless.
No fractional crystalllisation or anything needed .
But i haven't evaporated my I-think-it's-TANN yet.,
S a y B l i n d r e e p e r , h a v e y o u s e e n a n y a m monia solution around, other tha n 6% household type? I'll just use (NH4)2SO4 and
NaOH in a gas generator if using the a qeuous solution doesn't work

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Glycerin
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Neoknite February 17th, 2004, 11:19 PM

I finally found some glycerin but I looked at the Contents and it says. "C ontains: Glycerin, U SP 99.5% Anhydrous." The product
was just called Glycerin. I search on go o g l e a n d f o u n d a n article that says that Glycerol is a name for a pure form and Glycerin
is th e impure. So is this .5% Glycerin and com pletely useless, or 99.5% pure :confused: . I know its a stupid question but I
h a v e s e e n c o m p a n i e s p r i n t s o m e e x t r e m ely un reliable info. Probably use it for nitro. Any help would be gra teful.
Lil_Guppy February 18th, 2004, 12:40 AM

I doubt they would sell it as glycerin if it was 0.5% pure... But ye s, it is 99.5% glycerine.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Voluntary Human Extinction
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borax February 18th, 2004, 02:05 AM

" P h a s i n g o u t t h e h u m an race by voluntarily cea sing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded
conditions and resource shortages will improve as we becom e l e s s d e n s e . "
http://www.vhem t.org/

You offering yourself up as a sacrifice for m a n k i n d ?
How sweet! :p
Mendeleev February 18th, 2004, 07:46 PM

I think extinction is a bit extreme, but periods of not breeding (that's not to say no fuckin g, which would go on most definitely)
would do the earth good, it could reduce the earth's population to a little under a billion and everything would be pe achy. To
start with lets get rid of the DEA...
Pyrovus February 19th, 2004, 12:25 AM

Sounds chillingly like that nut group in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six that plotted to wipe out the hum an race with a modified eb o l a
virus. They fail to take into account the simple fact that humans ARE A PART OF NATURE, instead taking the view of humans
s o m ehow being "above" nature. Throughout the planet's history the earth has changed co nstantly, going through ice ages,
nuclear winte rs, and the climate of the earth has been anything but constant. The only difference between those tim e s a n d n o w
is th at this is the first tim e t h a t t h e s e c h a n g e s h a v e b e e n b r o u g h t a b o u t b y a n i n t e l l i g e n t s p e c i e s . T h i s g r o u p d e m o n s t r a t e s
considerable hypocrisy - they say the extinction of a single species is such a terrible crime, yet advocate the extinction of
h u m anity. Of course, to them it's perfectly alrig ht for on e species to drive another into extinction, so long a s it's not hum a n s
doin g it. W hile I don't agree with the way that global capitalists are pillag ing the world in u nsustainable ways, and support
m any of the views of the environmentalist movem ent, this group's view of environm entalism for it's own sake is quite
d i s t u r b i n g . T h e s e p e o p l e p l a c e n o n - s e n t i e n t b a c t e r i a a n d p l a n t s a b o v e p e o p l e . W hat is happening now is a result of a natural
process, called EVO LUTION. Through evolution we have becom e the most powerful species on the planet, and through our
actions we are altering the environm ent. Those species not suited to the new environm ent go extinct. Those that benefit from
our actions thrive. W hile m uch is m ade of the fact that we have driven species into extinction, little m ention is m ade of the fact
that as a result of natural selection new species are beginning to em e r g e . T h e m o s t c o m m o n l y q u o t e d e x a m ple that of the
white peppered m oth, whose habitat is trees co vered with white lichens etc. In places, industrial pollution has caused the lichen
to die, rende ring the white peppered m oth quite visible to predators. However, as a result of the forces of natural selection,
m oths in these regions have evolved into a sub-species, the bla c k p e p p e r e d m oth. Were it not for our actions, this species
would never have existed. Our eventual fate, also, will be a product of the natural process of evolu tion. While we are a powerful
species, natural selection predicts that a specie s able to control that power will be more lik ely to su rvive (i.e. not wip e itself
out), than one that cannot. The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement can take solace in the fact that their end will also come
about as the result of the natural cause of evolution, for by not reproducing, they will wipe themselves out, and in doing so
they will im p r o v e t h e g e n e p o o l b y r e d u c i n g t h e a m o u n t o f d e l u d e d w a c k o s i n t h e h u m an race.

W ell our race is m ost definitely on the verge of a pandemic. A great disease that will wipe out massive am ounts of our
population. It's just a part of life. A way of the earth balancing itself out. Some of the m ain things that can through our planets
e c o s y s t e m out of whack are Hum a n s a nd m eteors. I don't think there is anyway for our planet to com p e n s a t e f o r m eteors.
H u m ans on the other hand can be dealt with.
Arkangel February 19th, 2004, 05:38 AM

W ell in large parts of Africa, HIV is well on the way to doing that.
nbk2000 February 20th, 2004, 01:14 PM

W ell in large parts of Africa, HIV is well on the way to doing that.
Not faster than they breed. :m a d :
The third world has taken the "cockroach" approach to children. Push out as m any as you can, as fast as you can, and then it
doesn't matter how m any die or how fast, because there's more com ing in than going out.
'C ourse, this is the whole reason they're in the shithole status they are now.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Train Explosion in Iran
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Dave Angel February 18th, 2004, 08:46 AM

For those who haven't already heard:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/m iddle_east/3498851.stm
But who in th eir right m ind transports fuel and fertilizer on the sam e train?! Quite literally an accident waitin g t o h a p p e n . . .

7 railroad cars full of fertilizer- That wo uld do it. The m ost com m on fertilizer in the world is... Am monium nitrate. As far as
transporting with tank car loads of liquid hydrocarbons, DO H!!! Even if they didn't m ix during a derailment, the heat of the fire
could cook off the nitrate. Dumbest transport accident I've heard of since that guy jacknifed his tra ctor trailer full of ANFO a n d
lit a flare to keep people from running into his wreck.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > An/m nn/c
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Sonny Jim February 20th, 2004, 03:07 PM

I s a w o n a l e n s p a g e a c o m position consisting of AN/MNN/C, but I cant ge t onto th at page, and cant rem ember the ratios. I
cant find proportions here either, so I was wondering if anyone could help me out. Today I m ade 50g of MNN and would like to
test it in an AN com p . T h a n k s .

I s a w o n a l e n s p a g e a c o m position consisting of AN/MNN/C, but I cant ge t onto th at page, and cant rem ember the ratios.
Allen's page is down, but the ratios are posted at least two places on this site.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > S o d i u m / p o t a s s i u m chlorate
preparation?
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dogbone103 February 22nd, 2004, 07:17 AM

I was going through a few of my files tonight and I came across a m etho d of m a k i n g s o d i u m or potassium chlorate. I have
h e r d p o t a s s i u m chlorate can easily be made from bleach but I n ever thought it was possible to m a k e s o d i u m c h l o r a t e f r o m
calcium hypo chlorite and sodium chloride. The m e t h o d g o e s a s f o l l o w s .
__________________________________________________ ___________________
This explosive is a ch lorate explosive from b l e a c h . T h i s m e t h o d o f
production of potassium or sodium chlorate is easier an d yields a m ore pure
p r o d u c t t h a n d o e s t h e p l a s t i q u e e x p l o s i v e f r o m bleach process.
In this reaction the H.T.H. (calcium hypochlorite C a C 1 0 ) i s m ixed with water

and heated with either sodium chloride (table salt, rock salt) or potassium
chloride (salt substitu te). The latter of these salts is the salt of choice
due to the easy crystalization of the potassium chlorate.
T h i s m ixture will need to be boiled to ensure complete reaction of the

ingredients. O btain som e H.T.H. swim m ing pool chlorination com p o u n d o r
equivilant (usually 65 % calcium hypochlorite). As with the bleach process
m entioned earlier the reaction described below is also a dissocia tion
reaction. In a large pyrex glass or enam led ste el container place 1200g.
H . T . H . a n d 2 2 0 g . p o t a s s i u m chloride o r 159g. sodium chloride. Add enough
boiling water to dissolve the powder and boil this solution. A chalky
substance (calcium chloride) will be form e d . W h e n t h e f o r m a t i o n of this
chalky substance is no longer formed the solution is filtered while boiling
hot. If potassium chloride was used potassium chlorate will be form e d .
This potassium chlorate will drop out or crystalize as the clear liq uid
left after filtering cools. These crystals are filtered out when the solution
reaches room tem perature. If the sodium chloride salt was used this clear
filtrate (clear liquid after filter- ation) will need to have all water
evaporated. This will leave crystals which should be saved.
__________________________________________________ ___________________
My question is would this work and if it does wo uld it contain nay dangers such ad poisono u s g a s o r something that could tear
m y head off at any m o m e n t ?
zaibatsu February 22nd, 2004, 12:41 P M

Fucking newbie, you're outta here!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Lego
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Flake2m February 22nd, 2004, 10:18 AM

I a m sure 95% of the m e m b e rs here have som e l e g o m odels or have stuffed around with it before.
I h a v e t o n s o f t h e g e a r a n d I h a v e g a i n e d a n i n t r e s t p a rticuarly in pneum atics and in gear trains.but Alas, m ost of m y lego is
non technic so isn't as useful because I dont have alot of gears or pnuematic stuff.
At school the system s room u s e t o h a v e a m assive tray of the stuff which the teacher had to keep me away from due to my
ability to waste away hours of my time (and theirs) building som ething totally irrelevant (such as a tank, ca tapult, trebuchet
etc).
W ho else hear still has som e g o o d e x p e r i e n c e w i t h L e g o a n d s o m e g o o d m o d e l s ?
T_Pyro February 22nd, 2004, 10:26 P M

I love the technic range because it's so simple to create "devices" with it, that would have norm ally been out of m y budget! My
only grudge is that th e 9V motor that comes with the se t d o e s n ' t s u p p l y e n o u g h t o r q u e , a n d t e n d s t o g e t o v e r l o a d e d q u i t e
easily... :(
I'd once tried m a k i n g a centrifuge, but I had to use it for periods of upto 5 minutes at a stretch to get any useful separation of
ppt, hence it used to trip the therm al fuse way too often. I'm currently using my own 3V m otor instead, and it's still more
powerful than the lego 9V one !
Once I start earning, I'd like to save up for a m indstorm s kit... Anyone lucky enough to have one? <turns green with "J">
knowledgehungry February 23rd, 2004, 05:15 PM

I m ade a very nice trebuchet, about 2 feet tall, it fired maybe 20 feet.

W h o a a ! W h a t was the source of the energy for the trebuchet? Did you use the standard weighted end approach, or did you
h a v e t o u s e s o m e elastic bands? The technic pieces sure are stronger than they seem. Did you notice any buckling/bending of
parts?
scarletmanuka February 24th, 2004, 02:48 AM

My little step brother has the sar wars robotics type kit, where he has made one of those big robot four legged things from the
dark side. It can be told to follow a flash light and other novelty things like that, so one of those k its would be pretty useful.
Sadly he doesn't live with m e, so I can t raid his lego. But I do have a large meccano selection, which still proves to be
absolutely invaluable.

I m ight buy a few kits this years that use comp lex gear trains and pnuematics. Since it'd be useful for university study and its
fun and more constru ctive then computer gam e s .
D a m n if only universitys' had a "Lego Engineering" course. I'd have a phD in it.

I too have a crapload o f l e g o a n d l e g o m i n d s t o r m s ( T h e r o b o t i c k i t ) . I h a v e a l s o f o u n d a b o x o f o l d m e c h a n o i s a l s o i n v a l u a b l e
for bodging together long lasting m e c h a n i s m s such as the trigger on my aircan-rifle.
knowledgehungry February 24th, 2004, 09:16 PM

Just standard weight powered, there was som e bending but not a lot.

The mindstorms kit rocks! You can hack it to do all sorts. Sadly, I never really got started in it, so it sits in a box. I need to get
s o m e technics so I can build something a bit cooler to autom ate.
I d e c i d e d t o d r o p 1 2 0 o n s o m e P I C s , a s t h e m i n d s t o r m s k i t i s t o o e x p e n s i v e t o t u r n i n t o a perm anent digital lock or

whatever.
I kind of find the potential is a bit O T T t h o u g h . W hen you have a kit that can do pretty much anything at all, what do you have
it do? Doesn't that se em wasteful for a 150 kit?
It's a bit like fibreglass. You could m a k e a n y s h a p e , b u t r e p a i r i n g s o m ething is far, far ea sier than building a mono coque hull
for a battle robot.
Enough ram bling...

I have been browsing in Toy stores and searching online for Lego Technic. I seem to find bugger all. The overall quality of the
m odels is in decline.
T h e l a s t m odel I bought was in '96-'97 the Lego catalogue had atleast 12 technic m odels are varying difficulty including the
uber technic m odel the space shuttle (1300+ bits). Now I look through th e c a t a l o g u e a n d I s e e c r a p . T h e i s l i k e 4 - 5 m o d e l s .
One is decent but alm o s t i m p o s s i b l e t o g e t i n s t o r e s a n d the rest are to easy to m a k e .
I dont want to have to order o nline, but its looks like I will and I ain't paying $30 for p&h.

I have that shuttle kit :) I decided to build it up last week out of nostalgia. I'd recently been into a Lego shop and really wasn't
im pressed with the kits. There weren't any big ones at all, and they were pretty expensive.
Technic Lego was always m y favourite toy. Having built up the shuttle again, I can still appreciate the people who design these
kits. The four-way shiftable gearbox in the shuttle than runs everything from one motor is pretty neat.
Chainhit 2 February 26th, 2004, 04:55 PM

I have some lego's. I never built anything im presive ou t of lego though. Unless you count a crappy crossbow I made when it
was raining outside. I usually build stationary o bjects, like tanks or m odel fighter jets. I prefer kne x for mo bile things. I m a d e
a catapult style thing out of them, its all in the base. I tried to m ake a trebuchet out of legos but i was unsecsesful with the
weig hts... is a mango l possible with legos? They dont need to be as big...
PobodysNerfect February 27th, 2004, 08:56 AM

W hile I used to play with Lego quite a lot as a child, I grew out of it at the age of twelve. However I still used the occasional
Lego Technic m odel for som ething or other, and I found them to be quite useful.
However, looking at the newer range, I see that the Lego Technic quality has downgraded quite a bit; it is really quite appalling
compared to what it used to be a few years ago. Furthermore, obtaining the decent m odels is rather difficult here in W estern
Australia since the toy stores sell m ain ly Lego m odels a im ed at children (there is a girls Lego set now, believe it or not) and
the Technic models which are sold are the low quality ones.
I personally think tha t Lego robotics is quite fun, however I also feel that it is too expensive to m o d o r u s e i n s i n g l e - u s e
projects. Technic is m uch better for these purposes, and I would appreciate if som ebody in the area knew where to get the
better m o d e l s .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Iron Titanium Oxide
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Chemiboy February 23rd, 2004, 04:35 AM

Hello all Mem bers and staff of the froum. :)
I h a v e r e c e n t l y f o u n d s o m e t h i n g c a l l e d I r o n T i t a n i u m O x i d e i n m y school lab and is stored in a big glass ja r.

i h a v e t a k e n s o m e s a m p l e s h o m e and i wonder what i could do with it.
colour description: black powder with a small amount of dark blu e.
If anyone in this forum knows anything that you can m a k e o u t o f t h i s s u b s t a n c e p l e a s e r e p l y .
zeocrash February 23rd, 2004, 12:47 PM

o n t h e s a m e n o t e , i ' v e n o t i c e d s o m e rather unusual chemicals o n e b a y
antim ony powder
indium tubing
a d a m s catylist
wood's m etal
anyone know any uses for the se
vulture February 23rd, 2004, 01:32 PM

I suspect you're referring to FeTiO3, Irontitanate, a m aterial with a high dielectric constant that can be used for capacitors.
Antim o n y p o w d e r c o u l d b e u s e d t o m a k e a n t i m ony trisu lfide or used as is in pyrotechnics. Woods m etal is ideal for hot baths,
i t m e l t s a t 7 0 C a n d i s a v e r y g o o d h e a t conductor.
I n d i u m i s a n o b l e m etal like platinum and can be used for chlorate/perchlorate electrodes.

I was going to say I have never herd of a m etal called iron titanium oxide. Even if you did find such a powder it wou l d b e a
m i x t u r e o f F e a n d T i O 2 , n o t o n e m o l e c u l e a s y o u m a d e it sound. However if you could create a therm ite with that kind of
m ixture it wo uld burn at extrem ely hot temperatures. Titanium burns insanely hot.
Chemiboy February 25th, 2004, 04:43 AM

Tom haggen
The Iron is n ot mixed whith Titanium Oxide. I have been thinking that it was a m ixture from the beginning but a test with a
m a g n e t g a v e m e the truth. ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > basic/newbies gide to distilling nitric acid
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jarrod February 24th, 2004, 12:22 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/jarrod/
Here is a basic guide to distilling nitric acid for all you newbies. But my main piece of advice is LEARN, learn all about what you intend to do before you do it.
Also this is not my work I simply pieced together information others have written.
If any see there work here and want it removed say so and it shall be done.
So what do you think of it?

The thing I have a rpoblem with is that distilling nitric acid is not a newbie or basic experiment. So a guide for newbies it not the best idea IMO.
jarrod February 24th, 2004, 02:45 AM

I posted this as an initial point for beginners starting research into the synthesis. This is designed for research and later on if the Pearson wants to use this method then it can
become a guide.
When I say basic Im referring to the method. As I see it H2S04/KNO3 is much simpler than using an electric ark or the ammonia method
The main reason I composed this is so I could learn about the synthesis before trying it, through researching numerous documents, editing and rereading. A good way to lean
something in my opinion is to compose a paper. And if you have the paper why not share it?
P.S. blindreeper the OTC survey you did is quite good and I believe I have the same supplier of Al powder as you do.

I think you should change your statement to "all us newbies" and possibly correct your horrible spelling.
Even though you are protected in the water cooler, please do us all a favour and possibly show some effort in your grammar.
Cheers!

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/jarrod/
Also this is not my work I simply pieced together information others have written. So what do you think of it?
Are you teaching a procedure you have actually performed? You've done a fair job of assembling the information from this site and the hive, but have you actually DONE this.
One more pass through to correct spelling and grammar would be good- It's "vacuum" NOT "vacume".
You fail to recommend a gas mask with cartridges suitable for NOX and acid vapors. Your links to acid safety and clean up and disposal did not work (for me, at least). A full
rubber apron, long acid resistant gloves and full face shield would be a damn good idea. Look at Mega's description of a violent "bumping" that led to a nice acid shower...
A discussion of the dangers inherent in a vacuum distilling rig would not be amiss- inspection for cracks and chips, suitability of round vs. flat bottomed distilling flasks, dangers
of backflow of water when using a venturi pump and procedures to avoid such.
Also- There are available Teflon sleeves ready made for ground glass joints which will be easier to use than wound on plumbing tape- Look here (http://
www.unitedglasstech.com/glassware_accessories1.htm) The standard Keck clamps may not work when such gaskets (or Teflon tape!) are used. Adjustable clamps are sold
here (http://www.chemglass.com/index.htm) (look for product #CG-145-C ) Yes, they're expensive. Allowing your rig to leak and/or fall apart could be MORE expensive... As
noted, this procedure can "bump" violently.
The discussion of a digital vacuum gauge is interesting, but you can obtain an analog (mechanical dial) type vacuum/pressure gauge at any supplier of steam heating supplies
or auto parts store (http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=6095&catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&langId=-1&TID=100&afsrc=1)
for far less. It will be quite adequate for this purpose.
And, as mentioned by others- This is NOT a newbie level project-
Finally, I'd say with a bit of a clean up and a few additions this thread belongs in the Special Project 1: Nitric Acid (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/forumdisplay.php?f=22)
section. Moderators?
(edit)
Just looked at your posting history- Looks like you've probably done this procedure. I see you've posted most of your work allready piecemeal and without the graphics, still
think the completed article with the addition of some safety and other information would go well as a thread unto itself in the Special Project 1 section.
zeocrash February 24th, 2004, 12:53 PM

IMO the easiest method of concentrating nitric is to buy 70% stuff and use solvent extraction with DCM.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Dogs
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Miller February 24th, 2004, 12:25 AM

Hello there,
Although I have no informatio n of m y own on the subject, I thought that useing dogs as a weapon of defense would be alot of
fun to disscuss. Like I said I no inform ation on the subject, but if anyone has any input on such th ings as training or whatever,
plea se share .
A-BOMB February 24th, 2004, 12:30 AM

Let m e guess you didn't bother to search with that wonderful search feature which would of brought up a thread by NBK from
just a few m o n t h s a g o ; a n d r e m e m ber the search button is your friend.

Try Here:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2319
I think that's the original thread.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > KNO 3 -> KClO 3 q u e s t i o n
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jackhammer February 24th, 2004, 01:25 AM

I was searching around the forum for a way to produce potassium chlorate from p otassium nitrate, and though there have
b e e n a l o t o f p o s t s o n m a k i n g p o t a s s i u m chlorate, I didn't see one on m aking it from potassium nitrate. I was wondering if
one could m ake it using regular salt and potassium nitrate NaCl + KNO3 -> Na KClO 3 (I'm probably not writing this write but it's
1 2 : 2 0 a . m . and I've been working all day, so I beg slight leniency), or sodium hypochlorite (bleach) and potassium nitrate, or
s o m e other otc source of chlorine (besides pool cleaner). How could one get the sodium out of the m ixture? Or is the whole
idea bogus, and the result of an over-tired m in d? Any h elp would be appreciated (including a tem pur-pedic mattress, a
m assage, and ....
zzzzzzzz
metafractal February 24th, 2004, 06:00 AM

No, no and NO!
Lets see...
NaCl + KNO3 -> Na KClO3
I u n d e r s t a n d your idea, (which I will explain m akes no sense to anyone with even a slight background in chemistry), but your
reaction does not even m ake sense! First of all, your nitrogen has disappeared. Second of all, wha t is "Na KClO3"?
L e t s l o o k a t t h e s k e l e t a l e q u a tions of all the th ings you could have m eant and why they are all bitterly, bitterly misguided.
NaCl + KNO3 -> NaN3 + KClO 3

The nitrate a nion is stable. Under normal conditions, it will stay in tact and bond to a more favourable catio n in solu tion if
available. Bo t h t h e a z i d e a n d t h e c h l o r a t e i o n n e e d a g r e a t i n p u t o f e n e r g y t o b e f o r m e d .
NaCl + KNO3 -> Na + N2 + KClO3

A metal will bond to something as soon as it gets a chance. There is no way that one of the m ost reactive m etals, sodium , is
goin g to be produced free in a reaction like this!
NaCl + KNO3 -> Na+ + KClO3-

Seeing the chlorate is already bonded to the potassium, it is not acting as a free anion. And, your nitrogen is still m issing.
So, in conclusion, yes, a totally bogus idea.
K C l O 3 c a n b e m a d e f r o m hypochlorites, sold as bleach or pool chlorine. The inform a t i o n i s a b u n d a nt. Go search, an d learn
s o m ething before posting again!
jackhammer February 24th, 2004, 12:07 PM

No, no and NO!
Lets see...
I u n d e r s t a n d your idea, (which I will explain m akes no sense to anyone with even a slight background in chemistry), but your
reaction does not even m a k e s e n s e !
My biggest m istake was posting it as an equation. I was deliberately leaving out chemicals that I knew needed to be there in
order to cause the break-up a n d b o n d i n g . I M E A N T i t t o b e a ( a s y o u s a y ) s k e l e t a l e q u a t i o n ( t h o u g h t o b e h o n e s t , m y nitrogen
disappeared because I was to tired to rem ember it was there), and was hoping someone could fill it in. Obviously, I've got to
solids here, (at least for the first one), and as they are both fairly stable, they are not going to m agically bond or transform . I
n e e d a s o l u t i o n a n d p r o c e s s t o b r e a k d o w n t h e c h e m i c a ls and reform them. So I was fully aware that as an equations these
forum ulas were bogus. I also know, from resea rching (as I said in m y po st) that there are other ways of m anufacturing KCl03,
but the question was, can one do it fro m K N O 3 ?

You can use KNO3 to ppt the chlorate out as KClO 3 from an NaC lO3 solution, but there's no other m agical way (at least that I
know of) to convert it into a chlorate directly. Search, an d you sh all find.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > how bad is google being
censored?
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bobo February 26th, 2004, 09:43 AM

W hile looking at google groups for some *generic and scientifically useful* inform a t i o n , I f o u n d s o m e t h r e a d m a d e n o s e n s e
at all. I think som e posts were just m issing. Th is annoyed the hell out of m e, because at first I thought som e fucktard at
g o o g l e i s m eticulously deleting posts from .sci groups for the fun of being an ass. But then, I realised I read som ething
s o m ewhere about google being forced by US government about linking to bombz and kewlz and probably they have a list of
d a n g e r o u s t e r m s. Probably, m y perfectly sanctioned, governm e n t f u n d e d r e s e a r c h i s h a m p e r e d b y m e wasting time trying to
m ake sense of newsgroup threads that have been castrated, the useful info cut out leaving a mass of hardly com p r e h e n s i b l e
flam es and whatnot with only a hint at a shadow of useful inform ation.
I s t h i s j u s t t h e p a r a n o i a o f a b a s e m e n t chem ist or is the freedom of info rm ation truly a thing of th e past? If so, are there ways
around this hideous, invisible but very powerful form of repression?

"Min d control" does exist, but I'm not sure as to how bad it really is, 'coz they won't exactly be putting up a list of sites "not to
be visited". There was an outcry here recently after the Govt. ordered all ISP's to block access to a particula r p a g e o n Y a h o o
groups which had sed itious statements. The ISP's were crazy enough to go and block acce ss to the entire Y a h o o g r o u p s ,
l e a d ing to a furore over the right to free speech, and the page in question recorded a record no. of hits per day after that.
:rolleyes:
In another (possibly unrelated) finding, I found that whenever I try to access W outer's page, I get a dns error, but if I use a n
"anonymizer" type proxy, the page shows up normally.
W a y s a r o u n d t h i s ? U s e p r o x i e s . I ' m n o t g o i n g t o g i v e o u t n a m es of proxies, you should do a search on your own- there are

m any free services which might not take too kindly to a sudden increase in their load.
bobo February 26th, 2004, 12:02 PM

I was talking of usenet, and then especially the google portal. I might try to get a good news server that does not have a
censorship problem .

An interesting google result for some searches I've done in the last coup le of days-
A param edic who's a relative of m y girlfriend was shot while responding to a bom bing and fire in Kansas City a couple of days
a g o . T h e r e h ave been several articles on this o ccurrence put on web versions of various newspapers and web sites of the local
TV news- None will show up on google searches for key words that are in those articles Going directly to the local news
o r g a n i z a t i o n s s i t e s a n d d o i n g t h e s a m e s e a r c h t e r m s pulls up the related articles im mediately... W onder if the word s " b o m b "
a n d " e x p l o s i o n " a r e v e r b o t e n f o r g o o g l e s e a r c h e s o f A m erican news? A whole load of other things that SHOU LD have com e u p
on those Google searches also didn't.
Play with this- should be interesting, go look fo r stuff you KNO W i s t h e r e a n d s e e i f G o o g l e h a s g o n e b l i n d t o m a t e r i a l

containing certain term s.

Google doesn't archive m ost news station sites, as the contents change every day and are of a temporary nature.
Though I'm sure that there are plenty of "bad" words th at aren't being listed by Google, there are plenty th at are, a nd m ost of
them are here! :)
Look for any number of naughty things and you'll get this site. I believe there is a thread by NBK about Google listings for
various E&W related search words. Though you'd already have to know what kind of words to look for to find us. Sea rching fo r
"bombz" doesn't bring us up. :D

The thing is, the only real way to avoid Google's censoring would be to som ehow bypass Google (I would im agine...)
The best way to do this IMO would be to do a Google search, and then find the relevant UR L ' s . T h e n c o p y a n d p a s t e t h e m in
your address bar. If this doesn't work, then ma ybe just going to the particular forum a n d s e a r c h i n g f r o m t h e r e m a y b e a g o o d
idea .
I m ay be wrong, thou gh. It might not be Google but the operators of the sites.

It's unlikely that Google would be "censoring" the sites. Most probably the m ind police are using IP filters to block specific
d o m ains and/or URL's. Copying & Pasting URL's will have no different effect.

T o b y p a s s G o o g l e , g o t o m s n . c o m , yahoo.com , dogpile.co.uk, etc.
Anyhow, I ha ve found that the Google news search is a bit funny. It seem s that things just drop off so fast that they aren't
there two days later!
bobo March 5th, 2004, 10:53 AM

yes that's precisely what I suspected but could not prove. Things disappear as fast as.... adresses for chem ical vendors posted
on this forum :p
GibboNet March 10th, 2004, 08:10 PM

Last tim e I lost the UR L to the kazaa lite forum s , I d i d a s e a r c h i n g o o g l e , a n d a t t h e b o t t o m o f t h e p a g e t h e y h a d a n o t i c e
explaining that some results were blocked due to legal action or something a-rather.
I know it's not directly related to this, but I seriously doubt they would block cerain results like that, unless there was a legal
p r o b l e m , in which case they seem to put up a notice about it.
nbk2000 March 25th, 2004, 03:17 AM

I just found a snippet in a Newsweek a rticle about Google:
In its foreign language versions, Google will follow the local laws, rem oving, for instance, Holocaust-denial sites.
I already know that they are referring to Germ any. Must be nice to be a Jew with a lock on the internet.
Oh, and they also caved in to the scientologist wackos, so you'll not be finding any badm outhing a bout them on Google eith er.
:rolleyes:
metafractal March 25th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Specifically:
http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/google/list.htm l
tmp March 27th, 2004, 10:09 AM

I use many different search engines. If I don't find what I'm looking for with
a particular search en gine, I u s e a n o t h e r . I h a v e f o u n d t h a t I S P s a r e m o r e
guilty of censoring inform ation and/or free speech than any search engin e.
F o r e x a m ple, AO L s e n t a n e - m a i l a n d a s n a i l m ail to a friend of mine for the
crime of calling George W . Bush an asshole. Another friend got a similar
resp onse from AO L when his daughter was usin g foul language in a chat room .
I've convince d both of my friends to switch to cable-based ISPs. It costs
m ore, but the faster downloads, not tying up the phone line, and lack of
censoring m akes it worth it. The cable people, Com cast, apparently, don't
give a shit about censoring. They're only interested in the money and that's
the way it should be !
To NBK2000, back in the 80's I recall that a m a n i n C a n ada was sent to

prison for openly denying that the Holocaust happened. I don't know if this
law is still on the books. Apparently, m ind crim e i s p u n i s h a b l e i n C a n a d a !
BTW , our president, "W", is calling for m o r e a f f o r d a b l e h i g h - s p e e d i n t e r n et

acce ss for Americans. I won't bitch if m y rates go down !
nbk2000 March 27th, 2004, 04:21 PM

T m p:
I ' v e o f t e n r e f e r r e d t o K a n a d a a s " T h e D e m ocratic Peoples Republic of Snow" and "The Gre at White W astela nd", precisely
b e c a u s e o f t h e c o m m unistic tendencies of the government.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Pernitric acid
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pdbm February 27th, 2004, 07:44 AM

I would like to know about this. But there arent m any thread about it. :o
well actually theres only one thread abot it : http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /showthread .php?t=929&highlight=hno4
And there isnt m uch info about it.
Dont any of u guys think that its worth talking about.
HNO 3 + H2O2 = HNO4 + H2O
N2O5 + H2O2 = HNO4
Maby its too unstable for nitra ting, but ... :rolle yes:

Pernitrate is a very re active co m p o u n d t h a t h a s o n l y b e e n d e t e c t e d i n t h e a t m osphere where it form s from NO x u n d e r t h e
influ ence of UV light and contributes to ozone layer degradation.
I t ' s t o o u n s t a b l e u n d e r n o r m a l conditions to be of any use.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Financing your life
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tyrone February 27th, 2004, 05:57 PM

Hi, this probley belongs in the tools/techneques and plans part,but here goes. Security systems in buisnesses. Now we all know
that these th ings are monitered 24/7, never the less it can still be bypassed. Now lets say ,just in therory of course; one
wanted "in" on a m ovie store.(if I get replys I will reply with a sure fire way into m o s t p l a c e s o f b u i s n e s s ) O . K s o y o u r e i n s i d e
blockbuster, youre at the m ain power , you see the state of the art foe youre' up against. Im a g i n e y o u g o t a p h o n e line
c o m i n g i n t o a g i a n t t e l a p h o n e control board. now you lo o k u p a n d t h e r e ' s a b o u t 8 - 1 4 L V T c a b l e s c o m m i n g o u t o f t h e t o p o f t h e
box going into the ceilling and spralling out of sight. You say to youre' self "ok tim e to go to work" and you snip the wires
goin g into the ceilling , leaving the phone line a t the bottom of the box intact, thinking youre going to out witt the "man" . Just
as youre contim platin g what m o v i e s a n d g a m es you want for youre birthday, the soul peircing wail of the burgular siren snap s
you back to cold reality.
Soo, long story short, who knows schem atics to top of the line schematics? and who knows a trick or two they would like to
share for the s a k e o f t h e p u r s u i t o f k n o w l e d g e . T h a n k s a n d I h o p e t h i s p o s t i s n o t t o g r a p h i c .
nbk2000 February 29th, 2004, 04:19 AM

"Just as youre contim plating what movies and gam es you want for youre birthday, the sou l peircing wail of the burgular siren
snaps you back to cold reality."
The cold reality is tha t you're a PETTY punk who's going to be doing lap dances on Bubba's cock (Tyrone isn't im m u ne from
Bubba luvin' either!) in the lockup when your dum b ass gets busted for stealing videos. VIDEOS?! VIDEOS?!?!?!
C o m e on!
C a s h / g o l d / p l a t i n u m / C P U ' s / R A M O NLY! Not even diam onds are worth stealing. Eve rything else is useless garbage that gets you
busted.
W hat are you going to do with a thousand movies? Get stoned and watch them all? How m any hours of you r life would
disappear in a stony haze in front of the idiot box?
Or m aybe playstation ? Ooooooooo...you're skills at Tony Hawk Xtrem e boarding will truely be the stuff of legend after you
spend a few m onths on it, all for free! :rolleyes:
If th e best thing you can com e up with PETTY theft of videos from blockb uster (a lam e place in the best of times) then you'd
certainly not benefit from any "schem atics to top of the line schematics".
W TF? :confused:
D i d y o u m e a n " s c h e m atics to top of the line alarms"? If so, you're too stupid to make use of them anyways, as you can't even
construct a proper sentence.
W hat use do cro-m ags have of fire when they love their m a s t a d o n b l o o d y r a r e ? : p
This just goe s to show why it's dangerous to let little kids play with the Big Boys. They inevitably get hurt.
Bye bye to tyrone.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Anatom y of a Firework
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I dunno if yo u guys a lready know about this... its VERY basic... but it helps explain som e very fundamental shit about mortars
/ shells and som e basic compound information...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/kaboom / a n a t o m y.htm l
as I said before... its stupidly sim ple, but its a place for the newest of the new to learn som e basic information.
cheers.
Cheese March 9th, 2004, 04:13 AM

In the article, it says that blackpowder is most often used as the propelant.
Surely with all the advances in chemical engineering the re are better/cheaper/more efficent form s o f p r o p e l e n t a v a l i b l e o n
t o d a y s m arket.
Bert March 12th, 2004, 03:59 PM

In the article, it says that blackpowder is most often used as the propelant.
Surely with all the advances in chemical engineering the re are better/cheaper/more efficent form s o f p r o p e l e n t a v a l i b l e o n
t o d a y s m arket.
No. There isn't. Disne y spent a lot of time and m oney trying air cannons and electronic fuses, it wa s better tim ing and precision
wise, but much more costly. Nothing beats black powder for day to day use. Every form of BP substitute has shown substantial
drawbacks, a nd usually higher prices as well. 150 years of engineering hasn't bee n able to replace BP for general low pressure
propellant use, military burst and ejection charges still use it for that reason.
BTW , use spell checker. Two L's and an A in "propellant"...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Jackasses of the Month
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W hat the article failed to mention was that, "the boys put a propane lighter to the end of the pipe". Also, the father works for a
local police a gency and had the powder for use in reloading.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/local_news_04e3ecd a 6 2 9 3 8 1 a 8 0 0 8 4 . h t m l
Chainhit 2 February 28th, 2004, 09:17 PM

: d : d H a h a h a h h a a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h h a h a h a h/ :d
W TF? W ho puts a litghter into a fucking pipebom b! dum bass kewls!!! :D :D Really, when i was there age I dreamed that when I
m ade a pipe chrage I would put a fuse in it and respect it, and put like a 2 foot fuse (whislers) on it..they shouldent have
gotten medical attention, for their idiocy. Darwin award.. too bad he dident die.... :p
And wheres nbk2000.. i didnet see him in a while.

so they tried to light it with a propane lighter and no fuse?
I think it's partly the stupid dads fault for leaving all his explosives laying around.

NO.
Y o u c a n b l a m e the Dad for leaving the explosives around but it is the kids fault in the end.
W ho was stupid enough to stuff around with the explosives? Them
W ho was stupid enough to blow to injure them s e l v e s ? T h e m
Sure the Dad m ighta left gunpowder around but if they had half a clue th em they wouldn't have touched them . They is an old
saying "If it doesn't concern you and you dont know how to use it then le a v e t h e b l o o d y t h i n g a l o n e . "
PobodysNerfect March 1st, 2004, 07:11 AM

F l a k e 2 m : But you can blame the fathe r for working for a police agency ;).
I personally think tha t it was the kid's fault and the dad 's fault. The kids were obviously too stupid to handle the ex plosives
properly and do the proper research before using them , although it was the father's fault for spawning them . His genes were
obviously quite defective and he should never have had kids.
Bert March 2nd, 2 004, 11:09 PM

I think this is the dad.
Trigger ettiquette (http://www.full-auto.com/im a g e s / f o r u m s/vide os/kilgore_m16_.MPG)
He's a fast learner...

More trigger control (http://www.full-auto.com /im ages/forums/videos/whoops.wm v)
flashpoint March 4th, 2004, 01:58 AM

W here did you get the propan e lighter from ? From what I gathered from the text, it says they were trying to pack gunpowder
into the pipe, when it exploded 2 feet from a propane tank. Blowing a chunk out of the 12 yr old and giving powder burns to
the 11 yrd old. Correct me if I'm wrong...I was confused about that.
krimmie March 4th, 2004, 11:04 PM

The bit about the propane lighter was in the Miam i Herald a day later, but I could not provide a link to it.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > An white smoke
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PIB February 29th, 2004, 12:30 AM

W hat is the white sm oke produced by the detonation of AN...
Thanks

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Plucking Video
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S o m e o n e e - m ailed this (http://www.fuckallyall.com/article1863.htm l) to me, and I thought that it was too funny not to share .
Enjoy!
( Y o u h a v e t o hit the yellow button once it loads.)

That is the m ost faggoty thing I have ever seen. That bear is very evil lo oking. I cannot b elieve th at was allowed to play on
the open airways. It must of been a group of fags writin g that to see what they could get away with on day tim e t.v.

lol, nothing like pluck ing your twanger!
Shun Ambrose March 5th, 2004, 05:22 PM

the good traduction for " let the good tim es roll " is " laissez aller les bons m o m ents " I am French. ;)
ossassin March 6th, 2004, 12:09 PM

It's the way the Cajuns say it, man. It's an exp ression.
mesmashy March 27th, 2004, 05:34 PM

i r e m e m ber that show from when i was a kid there is a m ore graphic version but i cant find it
Cyclo_Knight March 27th, 2004, 06:48 PM

Ohh yeah...I was plucking my Twanger and bouncing my Balls while Jane shook h er Moraccas :p
I wonder if the shows editor has gotten out of prison yet :rolleye s:
Quote: "Oh yes Banging can be fun! I was banging away with Ro d and Roger all last night!" Doesn't get m uch m ore thinly
veiled that that!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > How to throw knifes ?
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i want to know how can i throw a knife correctly.
Skean Dhu March 5th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Rather than waste space as you have, I'm going to post this reply to your other thread here as well as some tips for this thread.(FYI one line posts aren't looked upon kindly
here, especially if they are questions) ya know, someone should write down the unwritten rules of the forum and make newbies read them before posting, my bad they
already did that.
First off if you can't take the time to sift through pages of information to find exactly what you need and are looking for, what makes you think other people will do it for you?
If I'm gonna spend hours of my time looking up information its going to be for my benefits and interests.
You're looking for a Cliff notes version of the E&W forum, there isn't one.
Second there are programs out there (I'm sure you've heard of them) Where you enter in a search topic or phrase and then it looks far and wide for results containing your
words, Search engines(google, yahoo, alta vista, dogpile, infoseek, metacrawler...etc; google being the E&W supported search engine).
Through these feats of modern technology and marvel you can find scores if not hundreds of books relating to the topic of "Throwing knives", "How to throw a knife", and
"Knife throwing". There half of your work is done, all you have to do is work up the energy to enter those keywords(ie; text between the " "s) into one of the afor mentioned
search engines, hell I bet there are a couple threads on this very board relating to your topic of interest.

I don't know why you want to throw knives. To my knowledge, no combat unit in the world does it. Why would you want to? Just for fun? Throwing knives takes lots of
practice.
Hang-Man March 5th, 2004, 07:25 PM

I learned because few things are more satisfying than throwing a knife and hearnig it sink into a plank of 'wood' its just so damn satisfying. That sound is up there with
the action of a bolt rifle and feeling you get when the final pin sets while picking a lock :D But yes; 'ambrose' I hate to use this again but its so fitting.
YOU'RE A COCK. GO AWAY!
nbk2000 March 6th, 2004, 01:50 AM

The best way for a newbie to learn how to properly throw knives is to collect as many large and razor sharp knives as possible, take them out into the yard, lay on your back,
and throw them in rapid order as high into the sky directly above you as possible.
;)
This saves you all the tedious walking back and forth to retrieve the knives for throwing again.
:D
Doug March 8th, 2004, 01:55 AM

This saves you all the tedious walking back and forth to retrieve the knives for throwing again.
That must be where I was going wrong... ;)
I tried throwing knives a few years ago now. We had these huge wooden doors in our workshop and an 8" kitchen knife we used for cutting hoses. I taught myself how to
throw it and got quite accurate at a range of about 20ft. Last time I did it someone opened one of the doors and poked his head round the corner just as I'd launched it. The
look on his face as this blade lodged itself six inches from his head with a satisfying "twang" was amazing.
Scared the shit out of me thinking what could have happened if he'd opened the other door and I've never done it since.
:eek:
Arkangel March 8th, 2004, 11:34 AM

Doug, someone else here used to use the sig you're using, and I can't remember who. Are you a reincarnation of someone else, or is that simply a coincidence?
Doug March 8th, 2004, 12:40 PM

I am a reincarnation of someone else but I'm afraid I'm not witty enough to have thought the sig up myself :(
I saw it posted on another forum in a humour thread and nicked it for my sig bacause it made me chuckle.

i want to know how can i throw a knife correctly.
Look i'm not gonna waste everybody's time and space by telling you your a lazy ass bum, i'm gonna tell you to go to some search engine and look it up yourself.
The Anarch March 13th, 2004, 12:04 AM

pyrojunkie that was already done, man. Thanks for your contribution.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > D o e s s o m eones want to
correspond with m e ?
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J have not enougth tim e t o g o o n e t h i s f o r u m .
For this reason I ask to every people on this fo rum if someones want to correspond with m e by m ail.
I a m french and i can learn to you lot of thing about the chem istry of the e x p l o s i v e s , W a r g a s , n e r v e s g a s a n d h o w t o u s e s
them.
m y m ail address is dum b@ss.fr
IDTB March 5th, 2004, 11:57 PM

J have not enougth tim e t o g o o n e t h i s f o r u m .
For this reason I ask to every people on this fo rum if someones want to correspond with m e by m ail.
I a m french and i can learn to you lot of thing about the chem istry of the e x p l o s i v e s , W a r g a s , n e r v e s g a s a n d h o w t o u s e s
them.
m y m ail address is dum b@ss.fr
Personally I'd enoy to correspond with som eone, but for security reasons I shall not do so. Aslo, if I did it wouldn't be with you
b e c a u s e y o u ' v e s h o w e d m e ( a n d t h e f o rum ) you're rather foolish. Foolishness doesn't go well with m ost of the topics that are
d i s c u s s e d h e re at the forum . I'm still kind of curious why you're still here after the VX incident. I'm assuming it was you, but I
can't seem to find it in the archives. Am I m i s t a k e n ?
nbk2000 March 6th, 2004, 12:51 AM

You are correct, IDTB, that he is the "VX" POStER.
It's not like he really did make any VX but, for argum e n t s s a k e , l e t s s a y h e d i d .
Eventually he'll be caught for doing som ething equally stupid, whether he lives to go to prison for it is another story, but would
you want to be on his e-mail list when "The Sta te" goes looking for "collaborators" to prosecute? :eek:
The only reason he wasn't banned forever is because we wanted to see what he'd do next. Now that we've seen an attem pt to
lure others into an entrapmen t, we say "au revoire" (however it's spelt) to S. Amb rose.
:)
PS: Signatures are to only be in english, so HED for rules violation as well. :p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Please help! How does this
beautiful magic trick work?
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jelly March 6th, 2004, 10:00 AM

It's puzzle tim e! :)
W atch this video http://www.thatsimpossible.com /slowburn/slowburnnow1.rm
The author o f this trick claims "Totally SELF-WO RKING....NO SKILL NECESSARY!...
SELF-C ONTAINED GIMMICK does it all for you!... RESETS automatically!... Perform SURRO UNDED!"
I h a v e f o u n d an own solution that works without any gim m ick (tool), but it doesn't look as elegant as in the video.
How does this magic trick work? Any idea?
jelly March 16th, 2004, 08:38 PM

I h a v e f o u n d the com plete video (~435 MB, 42 m inutes) on the eDonkey network.
It explains this wonderful close-up routine in detail... how to build the gimm ick etc. :)
The link:
ed2k://|file|Richard.Sanders.-.Slow..Burn1.m p g | 4 4 5 7 6 1 2 9 2 | A B 8 1B 904C8F8A 6F2FF031EE F01416CC5|/

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Good news
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Arkangel March 8th, 2004, 01:00 PM

Stop being a smartass.
zeocrash March 8th, 2004, 02:37 PM

lol h a n d m outh coordination is overate d i'm as coordina ted as a ... very uncoordianted thing. but that dont stop me shoveling
large quantities of junk food towards that hole in m y face
vulture March 8th, 2004, 03:02 PM

The four-yea r study of the physical abilities of children in 157 countries a lso found that U .S. children finish an Oscar Mayer
Lunchables Fun Pack in just under two minutes, nearly half the world average.
C o u l d a n y o n e d e s c r i b e to m e what an O scar Mayer Lunchables Fun Pack is? :confused:
Is it something like those cookies which look like sandwiches with cheese and stuff in between?
Now I know why food fights are so popular in th e US. ;)
New olym pic discipline com ing up? :D

Lunchables 'fun packs' are essentially over priced meag er portions(not to m e n t i o n u n h e a l t h y ) o f p r e p a c k a g e d l u n c h es for
people who won't take the tim e to m ake a sandwich for their snot nosed brat. the y comm only contain 3 mini pizza shells,
cheese and sauce, or crackers a few slices of sm all lunchm e a t s , a n d c h e e s e , a l o n g with some sugary drink like capri sun or the
like
Tuatara March 8th, 2004, 05:54 PM

I'm wonderin g how well this co rrelates with child obesity :p
IDTB March 9th, 2004, 12:39 AM

First thing I thought of is the Am erican 's inconsistancy to stop th rowing food in their(or other's) mo uths and yelling "SCORE!!",
anyone else or am I simply an abstract mind? :p
The reason I say this is I've o nly noticed American's doing so. C orrect me if I'm wrong. ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > My greetings, hello to the NeWb post.
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OK. Been reading here a little and have picked up some great information. Information that makes me glad I just got a divorce and can have all the hobbies I want. :D
I am keenly interested in dreaming of making my first batch of AP (acetone peroxide) as it seems an easy process and fairly safe to make (should one not be a complete
jackass and follow all appropriate safety precautions)
Hopefully within the next few sleeps the dream should come to me.
I also was hoping to dream about using some exploding targets (certainly 99% AN) I have for experimentation. They are Tannerite brand targets, and I am certain that folks
here have discussed the contents of these ad nauseum.
I have already dreamed that I could set these bad boys off with something like, say a #8 cap, but am not motivated enough to obtain said caps.
Then I discover AP (acetone peroxide) and find that it makes a nice cap material, is easy to make and relatively sane to attempt.
My question would be this: If I am using say a pen cap to make a cap, and I fill it with AP (acetone peroxide) and insert the igniter of choice can I SAFELY use hot glue to seal
the deal? I notice that people here tend to use empty shell casings for caps. What are the advantages and the method used to seal these? I assume crimping them would be
the jackass way of sealing something with AP (acetone peroxide) in it? Also I read that AP (acetone peroxide) and metal are a no/no, so coating the inside of the casing with
some paint or varnish would prevent trouble?
Please spare me the search for it routine, as I am fully capable of following the rules. I am more attempting to give a big howdy to all the kind folks willing to
volunteer inf ormation to we with an insatiable urge to learn, create, and ultimately destroy. :D

I don't 'seal' my caps. I just wrap tape around the cap and up maby 2" of the wick. And I would most certainly not use a hot glue gun on anything near AP.
None March 8th, 2004, 11:07 PM

I think you are underestimating the dangers of AP. I think theres a big chance of hot glue, or the metal nozzle, setting off the AP cap while it is being made. I recommend you
do more research into primarys and peroxides in particular. Peroxides aren't considered 'nice cap materials' by most people on this forum, and are only really ever dreamed of
by people here because their precursors are extremely easy to obtain compared to most other primarys.
Also, a bit late now i know, but the mods don't really like introduction posts, even in the water cooler.
Good luck and keep it safe. :)
EP March 8th, 2004, 11:17 PM

Using hot glue is definetly a bad idea... Use another type of glue like the puttys such as this sold at hardware stores:
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/projectsdevicesdir/matchcobs1.jpg
They don't make any heat and dry very hard.

Guess I may have sealed the fate. Plan to keep reading, hopefully contributing.
Thanks for the warnings......underestimate it I won't.
I'll back away from the cooler slowly and go bury myself in the archives for a few days....
Anthony March 9th, 2004, 01:58 PM

I'm fairly sure that I've used hotglue to seal AP caps before. Best to test first, let the gun heat up for a good while (say 30 mins) so that it'll be at it's hotest, and poke the
nozzle/squirt some glue into a little pile of loose AP.
You might risk a DDT, but with a small amount you probably wouldn't damage the gun, and a simple pair of goggles would stop hot glue possibly getting into your eyes.
Then use the gun in it's just-warm-enough state (shortly after plugging in).
I think I used to put a plug of tissue paper on top of the pressed AP to give some thermal isolation.
HMTD and most metals are incompatible, but AP is better. I'd coat metal with wax/varnish/spray laquer, just in case.
Of course, electrical tape (as mentioned above) works well if you don't need water proofing.
Cyclonite March 9th, 2004, 05:16 PM

Hot glue is less hazardous, notice I don't say SAFE. Explosives are never safe... Hot glue doesn't reach the required temp for AP to DDT but always error on the side of caution.
If it works for you, do it. Look at the properties of AP and don't say no one told you.
vurr March 13th, 2004, 07:04 PM

sealing caps:cyanoacrylate seconde-glue or fast epoxy are more safe...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Physics experimen t
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rubberchiken March 9th, 2004, 10:15 AM

i have to do a physics investigation, but it's free choice. so, bein g the sorta guy i am, i chose to do it weapons-oriented. i will
be testing different projectiles (eg. fruit, wooden 'bullets', golf-balls, ect.) to find which has the best penetration.
now thats the easy part; i can find am m untion or manufacture it without any problems - m y school has a full m a c h i n e s h o p
which i can use. My issue here is a lack of a target; i need some thing cheap, abundant, easily obtained, and obviously which i
could fire objects into. styrofoam is out of the question - i don't particularly enjoy picking up many little peices of the stuff.
By the way, the gun im using for the investigation is of the pnue matic kind; an over-and-under m o d i f i e d s o l e n o i d - v a l v e g u n ,
m a d e o f s c h e d u l e 4 0 P V C . i c a n u s e t h e s c h o o l ' s H U GE com pressor, set at a certa in output, to reliably get an accura te
pressure-output each tim e.
thanks for any help you guys can give, im sure there will be som e g o o d i d e a s .

I'd measure the penetration of the projectile into som e viscous liquid. The drag e xperienced by a body would thus be
(approximately) directly proportional to the instantaneous velocity of the projectile (if the shape & size of the projectile is
constant). Hence, the m o m e n t u m of the incident projectile could be calculated.
Deform ation of clay would be another option, but there's no easy way of "m easuring" the deform a t i o n s p r o d u c e d .
If you're doing a physics project, m ost probably your teacher will expect you to explain the results of your tests scientifically,
too. Hence, instead o f measuring just penetration (which would not be a linear de p e n d e n t o f m omentum / kinetic energy), I
would suggest that you m e a s u r e t h e m o m entum and kinetic energy im parted by the projectiles. Mom entum could b e
m easured indirectly b y m e a s u r i n g t h e a n g u l a r d i s p l a c e m e n t o f a p e n d u l u m b o b o f k n o w n m a s s . K i n e t i c e n e r g y c o u l d b e
m easured by noting the m a x i m u m c o m p r e s s i o n o f a s p ring kept in the path of the projectile.

Surely the kinetic energy can be measure by th e ballistic pendulum ? As long as you know the vertical rise o f the ma ss, the
weig ht of the m ass, and that there was (practically) tota l energy transfer (total capture of the proje ctile by the m a s s ) ?

If energy is conserved during the collision with the pend ulum , then the kinetic energy could also be calculated from it, but since
such a collision invariably invo lves dissipation of energy, it would not be too accurate. Like you said, for an accurate reading,
we'll need (practically) total energy transfer.
W ith the spring, however, provided the m ass of the spring is negligible com pared to that of the projectile, energy dissipated as
e n e r g y o f d e f o r m a t i o n c a n b e m i n i m ised by using a rigid body a s a projectile.

I s u p p o s e t h a t f o r a d e m onstration of good physics principles, you need to be totally accurate. My reasonin g was that a sturdy
projectile fire d into a block of polystyrene (attached to the m ass :) ) should give almost total energy transfer. Deformation of
the projectile shouldn 't occur, there'd be a small amoun t of noise, the deformatio n of the polystyrene and any little bits that fly
off shouldn't add up to m uch.
I.e. the unce rtainty probably wouldn't be much com pare d to other factors, such as shot-to-shot m u z z l e e n e rgy varia tion.
How practical would it be to ha ve a spring of negligable m a s s c o m pared to the projectile? Even a projectile of 20gm fired at
spudgun type velocities carries a fair em ount of energy. Presumably, the spring cannot be com e coil-bound during the test, so
it'd have to be fairly strong - probably more than the projectile weight!
Tuatara March 10th, 2004, 12:34 AM

As a n alternative to styrofoam you might try stacking and gluing corrugated cardboard into a block, then fire your projectile into
the edges of the card board.

The choice of the spring to be used wo uld indeed be crucial. The two options would be to use a short spring with a high spring
constant (such a spring would be quite heavy!), or to use a spring with a com para tively lower spring constant, but of a longer
natural length. A spring with a lower sp ring constant could be m ade of a finer wire, hence could be lighter.
nbk2000 March 10th, 2004, 03:16 AM

If I was your physics teacher, I'd give you a big juicy F, m e a n i n g FAILURE, for FAILING to capitalize the letter I when referring
to yourself.
W h a t h o p e h ave you for passing physics when you're failing 3rd grade gram m er?
I've had it with morons who can't even follow th e sim plist gramm er conventions! :mad:
Death to the chicken and all o f his ilk! :D
New rule:
Failure to capitalize the letter I, when used to refer to yourself, is a banning offense. One warning (not likely) and then you're
gone. Consistant failure to capitalize the first letter of a new sen t e n c e , r u n - o n s e n t e n c e s , d o z e n s e n t e n c e p a r a g r a p h s , a n d t h e
l i k e , a r e a l s o b a n n i n g o f f e n s e s after (m aybe) one warning.
Newbies have to demonstrate proper g ram matical skills before they can be forgiving the o ccasional m i s t a k e .
Though this is already covered under the "raping the english lan guage" rule. ;)
Marvin March 16th, 2004, 10:27 AM

On ballistic p e n d u l u m s.
W ell, if grades are being given out the n Anthony and T_Pyro get a D in b asic m echanics.
T h e p e n d u l u m b o b s t o p s t h e b u l l e t . T h i s m e a n s that co nservation of energy cannot be op erating however well the catcher is

m ade. Since the bob is m ore m assive than the bullet, conservation of mom entum (which always applies) and conse rvation of
kine tic energ y (which is option al) m andate the bullet wo uld bounce off the bob in the othe r directio n.
To get the right answer you need 2 steps. You know the m a s s o f t h e b o b , a n d t h e m a s s o f t h e b u l l e t . C o n s e r v a t i o n o f
m o m e n t u m f o r t h e c o l l i s i o n g e t s y o u t h e m o m e n t u m , a nd thus the velocity and thus the kinetic energy of the com b i n e d m a s s .
C o n s e r v a t i o n o f e n e r g y t h e n g e t s y o u t h e h e i g h t t h e b o b will swing to. Depending on how you mea sure the bob height you
m ight need some trig.
So long as nothing fa lls off the bob, and it does catch the bullet in line with its center of gravity, it doesnt m uch m atter how its
m ade. Noise, heat, deform ation of the m aterial wont affect the result. Only time loss of energy m atters is the air resistance as
the bob rises, and this will be much less than the air resistance affecting the bullet in the first place.
Alternativly, if your school has one of those air float tracks that usually use a backwards vacuum cleaner, you can use that
instead, m e a s u r i n g t h e m o m entum from the velocity of the train (they usually ha ve electronics to do this).

Ouch. That h urt. :( I said "If energy is conserved during the collision with the pendulum", not "Energy is conserved...".
Meaning, that I accept that energy can not be conserved in this method, as in any real experiment. Note that that's the sam e
reason that I advocate the m assless spring approach. If the problem is with exactly what is "massless" spring, refer to the
m otion (and hence the KE im parted) of the spring in such a situation.
Oh well, I suppose if we get a "D", at least you'd be the re to share the glory with us. :D
Since the bob is more m assive than th e bullet, conservation of mom entum (which always applies) and conservation of kinetic
energy (which is optional) m andate the bullet would bounce off the bob in the other direction.
Law of conservation o f m o m entum always applies, as everyone has stated. However, your presum ption about the m otion of
the bullet after the collision is grossly wrong. The actual m otion depends on the coefficient of restitution during the collision. As
a s i m ple proof, im a g i n e a 4 0 g I r o n b o b t h a t i s b o m b a r d e d b y a 1 g l e a d b u l l e t . D o e s t h e b u l l e t b o u n c e b a c k ? N o . I f t h e
coefficient of restitution=0, the bullet sticks to the bob, and the velocity of the entire mass is found out be conserving linear
m omentum for time dt after the im pact. In general, there are 2 unknowns: velocity of projectile after collision, and velocity of
target after collision. There are also (surprise, surprise!) 2 equations, 1 from the conserva tion of linear m o m entum , and the
other from the relatio n between the ve locities, and the coefficient of restitution. Solve the 2 equations sim u l t a n e o u s l y , a n d
you're done.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > EO D school pics
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I s a n y o n e i n t e r e s t e d i n v i e w i n g s o m e l a r g e e x p l o s i o n s f r o m EO D school, I have the shots before h a n d a l s o . I will post pics if
interest in shown.
zeocrash March 9th, 2004, 05:44 PM

is th e pope catholic. post them dude i'd love to s e e t h e m
aikon March 9th, 2004, 06:26 PM

I'm sure everybody would love to see them.
EP March 9th, 2004, 09:04 PM

The real question is who wouldn't want to see them !

Y o u n e e d a f r e e p l a c e t o h o s t t h e m ? I got a se rver.
Cyclonite March 10th, 2004, 12:05 AM

I will post tom orrow, ill just throw them on my yahoo page.

Does a bear shit in the woods?

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/highorder20 03/album?.tok=phwGjxAB6rgpM5Ht&.dir=/cd6d&.src=ph
This is about 1000lbs of HE from about 1 m ile+ away
EP March 10th, 2004, 08:17 PM

Mind explaining what things are a bit? It's a little hard to tell in these sm all pictures...
F o r e x a m ple, EO D7. Is it a bunch of m ortar rou nds, anti tank m ines etc lined up? And was all that done in one blast to practice
disposing of munitions? Can you explain what is going on in EOD5?

Cyclonite, EO D11 shows what appears to be a crater, but lined with sandbags. Is this a trick of the light, or is it some kind of
im prov dem s pit?

Yea sorry about the pics the scanner sucks and im not the m ost computer savvy person. Lets see in EOD7 those are mortar
r o u n d s a n d A T m ines also in the far right are 105m m projos. O n the left of the la rge AT m ines are GATO R m i n e s , t h o s e o n e s
are m agnetic AT mines they a lso com e in AP those shoot out 4 trip wires when they hit(Subm untions). EOD5 is one of the
shots we did, If I rem e m b e r t h e r e ' s a M K 8 2 5 0 0 l b b o m b u n d e r n e a t h a b u n c h o n 1 0 5 m m projos som e AT m ines, TNT, C-4, PBX
and various other ord nance. Its a little over 1000lbs of HE. O h and im su re you like the C-4 dildo I m ade with the rank on the
tip. W e blew up our NC O I C s a n d O I C s h a t s , i t s a t r a d i t i o n .

Its just a crater, if you see sandbags it m ust be the light. Those craters are alot bigger than they look :->

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > A request
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akinrog March 10th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Dear Friends,
In order not to violate rules (or at least to minim ize risk of doing so), I am posting this under this section. During copying m y
E&W related files to n ewly installed PGP Disk system , I lost :( :( all of the valuable files which I downloaded P2P networks and
from various sources.
During my initial time s here there was a post in Im provised W e a p o n s s e c t i o n a n d m ost probably in weapon s plans thread
IIR C, giving a link to a geocities address where there are two zip files one of which containing one of Bill Holm e s B o o k s ( t h e
p o s t I I R C c l a i m ed that there are three zip files though). Last night I searched entire improvised weapons section trying to find
this link, but failed to do so. I think either the original poster ed i t e d / d e l e t e d t h e l i n k o r t h e p o s t s o m e w h a t d i s a p p e a r e d o r I
a m simply a dumbass.
I would be very grateful if som e o n e w h o k n o w s t h e a b o v e m e n t i o n e d l i n k , n o t i f i e s m e o f i t s l o c a t i o n / U RL. Rgrds.
zaibatsu March 10th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Check the reply to your email.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > About Madrid's bombs
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kkyenn March 11th, 2004, 10:11 AM

Please!! Excuse me for this terrific (automatic/next) translate (Im Italian and my English is very poor)
To Madrid we all know as it is just happened something many serious and terrifying (servants not to speak here and in this context about how much the use of the explosive in
these cases is "aberrant", I true!).
Instead I Ask all the greater experts of the Forum who are available: - Someone has hypothesis or theories or convictions on what and how have been used (speak about
compositions, quality, amount, detonators, members or other) in these "plans of outbreak"?
Of course I know how the question is premature, than there will be surveying deepened from part of the competent authorities; and that we can give answers to us meaby
now only vague and based on the few informations reported from the media average; but question me it seems worthy of our interest.
And of our attention it will be then still more interesting to verify our suppositions with that it will come then uncovered in the truth.
In expectant, I am attended of your theories! (... You do not misinterpret to me: Im not neither cynical neither insensitive towards the victims of these horrible terror
events !)
Kkyenn (from Italy)
Rhadon March 11th, 2004, 10:38 AM

We don't like automatic translations here as they are a pain to read. I'm tempering justice with mercy by moving this to the Water Cooler (where you could have posted this in
the first place). This is your last warning, and I mean it the way I say it!
Raynor88 March 11th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Hi, Sorry for posting at the brong topic in the brong forum :D as I said, I think it was 3 bombings in 3 diferent stations, I think that it were 13 bag bombs with titadine(The
french stolen dynamite each 10-15kg) causing 180 kills and 900 wounded(At the moment...). FUCK ETA, INDEPENDENTISTAS=TERRORISTAS

Hi, Sorry for posting at the brong topic in the brong forum :D as I said, I think it was 3 bombings in 3 diferent stations, I think that it were 13 bag bombs with titadine(The
french stolen dynamite each 10-15kg) causing 180 kills and 900 wounded(At the moment...). FUCK ETA, INDEPENDENTISTAS=TERRORISTAS
My condolences to the Spanish.
It's way to early to say who did this. The ETA has not done this type of thing in the past, and has allways taken credit for their operations before. They often send a warning in
advance as well. The Spanish government announced it was ETA allmost immediately, far too soon for forensic and investigative work to be done. The elections are next week
in Spain, and I've allready seen the NY Times announce that the bombings will help the party currently in power. In the past, ETA has tended to target politicians, police and
judges rather than the general population.
Do you remember the last time the ETA tried to blow up a train track? Their bomb went off on the WRONG DAY. They must have gotten very much better at this for about a
dozen devices in three locations to go off at nearly the same time.

Either way, whether it was the ETA or Al Quaeda, the Spanish people are fucked. I fear we might see the same terrorism frenzy in europe now as in the states. :mad:
May lighting strike down from the heavens and burn me on the spot if that's going to happen.
I also found it highly disgusting how the death of innocent people was immediatly hijacked by Bush, Straw and Putin to promote their War on Terror.
Yeah, let's carpet bomb yet another few thousands innocent citizens to make the world a safer place! :mad:
EDIT: BTW, those spanish EOD people have some fucking guts! Dismantling three live bombs while the others just went off around them. :eek:

Hi, I agree with you lets see tomorow but all evidences point to ETA:
1 Eta is the "local" terrorist group.
2 It was used titadine, the stolen dinamite in france by eta.
3 Eta have antecedents of mass bombing killing civilians like in the hipercor of Barcelona.
4 They have antecedents of the train bombing this new year is eve(I dont remember how it spells)
5 We are at elections and eta is desesperated after the ban intercepted in Burgos that have 500 kg of explosives(Cloratite I think that this is desesperated shit [Sodium
chlorate, sugar and sulphur])
But yes it has been bery well planed for eta, here (Northern of Spain) they (The "kale borroka" their "sons") use campig-gas for "bomb" banks for fuck capitalists xDDD Beter
we'll see tomorow...
The Anarch March 13th, 2004, 12:27 AM

I think automatic translations should be encouraged for the Water Cooler section because that was funny as hell to read.
Anyway, here is what I, as a stupid American, have heard from the papers.
Everyone thought that it was the ETA at first, but now they're just about sure it was Al Qaeda related. To be specific, a group related to Al Qaeda called the Brigade of (some
arab-sounding gibberish) claimed responsibility, and they found a car at one of the parking lots of the train stations with 7 detonators and a video with Koran verses in Arabic
on it.
The bombs used were left lying around in backpacks and suitcases, and contained titadine, which the paper I read said was a compressed (i suppose that means high-density)
version of TNT. All of you are saying it was dynamite though, so i'm assuming the newspaper thinks TNT and dynamite are the same thing. Typical.
There were 13 bombs altogether, 7 went off on one train that was parked at a station while people were getting on and off, 1 was on a train parked right next to the train
where the other 7 bombs went off, and 2 more went off on moving trains, all within minutes of each other. The remaining 3 were found and disarmed. They think they were
possibly timed to kill rescue workers.
Death toll i've heard so far is 197, and 1000 something injured.
It sucks that this happened just as Howard Stern is about to be kicked off the air. Now I have too much to think about.
nbk2000 March 13th, 2004, 03:57 AM

Everyone thought that it was the ETA at first, but now they're just about sure it was Al Qaeda related.
Didn't someone say in another thread that arab terrorists were operating in europe, specifically mention the basque seperatists as an example, and someone said no such thing
was happening? And now it is? :p
Might not the basques be hooking up with more skilled arab terrs, in the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mood of thinking? Could be. Wouldn't be the first time I've
predicted these sorts of things correctly.
I think it was Al Qaeda in collaberation with ETA.
There trademark sign is multiple simulatanous detonation of many devices at once and I also don't think ETA would have the brains to plan and carry out the attack.
What I do suspect is that ETA and Al Qaeda have collaberated in this attack as ETA would have the local knowledge and an established network of cells, yet Al Qaeda has the
experience and organisation to make the attack just that more devastating and scary.
I know there was atleast 11 seperate devices that went off and Vulture pointed out that 3 more were disarmed so that makes 14 devices. This attack was well planned and
carrying to a devastating effect.
On an intresting note the attack occurred on the 11 of march. Exactly 911 days after September 11. Just makes the attack a little more creepy.

Is this the beginning of the end? The spanish people voted the ruling party out of office,caving to the terrorists demands. No doubt there will only be more violence against
other countries that support our war on terrorism. I think this might be the greatest collective mistake in all of human history.
Im sure this will be met with a littany of liberal anti Bush crap,but the fact remains, They (the terrorists) got what they wanted. I believe we'll have OBL before the end of the
year, but I think its too late now.

Could it not be that they voted the ruling party out because they'd refused to listen to the will of the people? If 90% of Americans had opposed the war and Dubya had gone
ahead anyway, but then been kicked out of office at the next election, would that not be regarded as a victory for democracy "in the HOME of democracy"? Should Spain have
kept Aznar in power, simply to avoid people jumping to the conclusions that you're doing?
I don't think so.
Sure, people might infer that this is a "victory for this" or a "victory for that", but in reality, what happened was democracy in action - the people threw Aznar out, and that,
according to most of my Spanish friends, was because he refused to listen to the will of the people - on the war and all sorts of other things. The rush to blame ETA (including
instructions to embassies to blame ETA at every public opportunity) also made the Spanish public think there was something very wrong with their leadership.
It really pissed me off to see people writing into the BBC site, saying the Spaniards were cowards for capitulating to terrorism, when they've lived with it for so long already.
This had nothing to do with capitulation, it was a simple message to Aznar "You're a worthless, lying hijo de puta, now fuck off!"
Personally I'm pleased that he's been kicked out - hopefully Bush, Blair and Berlusconi will be next. :D
And before I leave this topic for a bit - don't let yourselves get into thinking that you're dealing with simpletons with Al Quaeda. Attacks sponsored by them have in most cases
been extremely well thought out, in many cases more successful than they can have dreamed of. Just because this attack was so "successful" doesn't mean that they'll
assume that a repeat will be. I'd be really surprised if they did exactly the same again.

I doubt the ETA will ally itself with Al Quaeda. If they do, the government would have the perfect excuse to wipe them out without mercy.
Furthermore, for the conclusion jumpers:
ETA is not arab terrorism! They want a separate state, that's all. Also, their attacks are usually more symbolic than devastating. If they'd commit such an action just before the
election, the only one they'd fuck is themselves as the people would vote for the party that would hunt them down and kill em.
Also, Spain is (or was) not representative for Europe, as Aznar was one of the very few to side with Bush. If you fuck up, you gotta face the consequences, that's democracy. If
only our american friends would realize that before november.
I believe we'll have OBL before the end of the year, but I think its too late now.
Not the end of the year. Surely before the elections in November...
I'm not going to bother to try and make you guys come to your senses about Bush. If you want to fuck yourself and your country over, please do so.
We'll keep amusing ourselves to death with the monkey you guys put up in the whitehouse, the astronomic deficit growing even further, more american soldiers getting killed
in useless conflicts and the whole world and it's mother that's pissed at you for being so warmongering.
nbk2000 March 17th, 2004, 01:33 AM

I remember just very recently having mentioned that a certain type of discussion is off-limits, and some people are pushing their luck...
knoddas March 17th, 2004, 04:35 AM

Someone has hypothesis or theories or convictions on what and how have been used (speak about compositions, quality, amount, detonators, members or other) in these
"plans of outbreak"?
The following text is taken from my local newspaper (swedish): www.dn.se

Translated by me.
According to the reputable newspaper, El Pais, the explosives were manufactured by Union Explosivos Espanoles (UEE), in Paramo de Masa.
The detonators (7 pieces, made of copper) which were found in a car in Alcala de Heneres, were also manufactured by the same company. They were stolen from a granite
quarry in the mountains, north of Madrid.
How the terorists got hold of them is still a mystery.

Finally it was Goma 2 (NG-Nitrocellulose) they use the old trick of the mobile phone to detonate the bombs xDDD
megalomania March 18th, 2004, 04:19 PM

Hmm, a bombing has drasticially affected the outcome of an election... so terrorism works :(

I don't think it can be dismissed that easily.
One could also expect the people to massively vote on Aznar to increase the efforts in the war on terror.
People could cope with the fact that he supported the war on Terror, because the economy in Spain did pretty well.
But, the fanatical efforts to try to blame the ETA shifted the balance I think.
If Aznar would have been really serious about the war on Terror, he would have acknowledged the fact that it were muslem terrorists and that therefore efforts should be
increased. But the fact that he tried to smother that trail made the people wonder if he really believed in his war.
Also, there are some rumours going about that the party of Aznar was thinking of some coup d'etat right after the attacks. The credibility of the sources is unknown or
questionable though.
I think that the recent Baghdad is evidence that this terrorist group, probably Al-Qaeda, is trying to do the same thing to the United States that it did to Spain. Are we going to
sit by and let the Socialists take over America, too? The terrorists know that if this happens, their safety is guaranteed. You'll have to forgive me if I've mispelled anything; I'm
a little drunk.

What are you worrying about. Bush will get reelected. I'll bet $100 on that.
I wonder, what so bad about socialism? I can't get rid of the impression that you're thinking like socialism = communism = BAAADDD!!!
Oh sorry, I forgot, socialists are by nature cowards! Ofcourse! Please forgive me.
nbk2000 March 20th, 2004, 01:26 AM

Nazis were socialists. :)
Oversea July 31st, 2006, 07:02 PM

After 2 years from Madrid bombings, it is unknown the composition of train bombs. It not exists chemical analysis of residues of train bombs. Only identification of explosive
captured, 1 month later, to supposed suicides or explosive captured from circumstantial evidences. (A single explosive: industrial Spanish manufactured dynamite Goma-2
ECO).
Many Spanish people dont believe in official investigation version.

If you want to know why, you can see it in this forum:
http://11m.fondodocumental.com/a/viewtopic.php?t=599 (English thread)
In Madrid Atocha station, a security camera recorded this sequence:

http://www.fondodocumental.com/11M/videos/311.trainbombs.tv2.wmv
If you watch this video as slowly as you can, you will see how explosion starts:
http://www.fondodocumental.com/11M/imagenes/destello.png
The question is:
What explosive is compatible with the blue luminescence of explosion starting?
Bugger July 31st, 2006, 08:40 PM

There must have been a "thermite" material, which emits large amounts of blue/violet and ultraviolet light, mixed in with the main explosive charge (having an oxidation
surplus), for that. This could include powdered Mg, Al, and similar metals.
nbk2000 July 31st, 2006, 10:59 PM

Hydrocarbon fuels like propane burn with a blue flame in proper ratios with the air.
FUTI August 1st, 2006, 10:20 AM

NBK is right, that recorded video clip looks to me like FAE. In France Algerian extremist were known by usage of propane based bombs. They used small chlorate charge to
burst the canister containing propane. That infact gives something like BLEEVE I think...but they could be advancing in this field. Spain is not far away for technology transfer
between cells to occur.
Lewis August 1st, 2006, 08:10 PM

Even though a still frame might look very blue, the explosion might have just been an intense white.
I remember shooting video of explosions that were white on a digital camera, and getting all sorts of different colours (blues, reds, purples) in the recorded product.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > O xygen on the Sun?
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fire vs. water March 11th, 2004, 05:26 PM

I don't know if this question really fits anywhere in the forum , s o I p o s t e d i t h e r e . F i r e m u s t h a v e o x y g e n , f u e l , a n d h e a t t o
burn, correct?
How come there is fire on the sun? Is there oxygen there? If so, does anybody know where it com es from, or how it exists
there if there's no atmosphere?

W here to sta rt...........?
Fire is simply an exotherm ic reaction b etween various chem icals, m o s t c o m m only in day to day life , a fuel and oxyg e n i n s o m e
form .
But under ex treme circum stan c e s o f p r e s s u r e , h e a t a n d s o o n , o t h e r e x o thermic reactions can take place. W here's the
"oxidiser" in a Zn/S rocket?
On the sun, there is a bucketload of heat, created by ongoing nuclear fission(?) which would release enough energy to m a k e i t
look like there was perpetual fire, even if there wasn't a ny actual chem ical reaction taking place - I'm not saying that ther isn't,
it's just that there doesn't need to be.
( f u s i o n - y e s , I m e a n t fusion SD and we were p robably posting at the sam e tim e as each other, but I hit the button first)

The " fire " o n t h e s u n i s m o r e o r l e s s p l a s m a p r o d u c e d by the constant fusion reaction going on b etween the hydro g e n a n d
h e l i u m isotopes that m ainly m ake up the sun. Thats the jist of it anyways, I'm sure its m ore comp licated than I ma k e i t s e e m
::EDIT::
Arkangel seems to have beat me to it, wonder why I didn't see his post
Dave Angel March 11th, 2004, 06:00 PM

Ahh drat, beaten to the plasm a e x p l a n a t i o n !
I think the flam es of a candle or a bunsen burner etc are energized, ionized gases too so I guess you could get away with
calling the flam es on the sun fire by the sam e description after all!

Oxygen exists only on larger stars, stars start using H as fuel when the H runs low then they shrink until they get to a point
when He will burn (the He is form e d f r o m t h e H u n d e r g o i n g f u s i o n ) t h e n f r o m He the star will keep going until it has enough
p r e s s u r e a n d h e a t t o m a k e t h at elem e n t u n d e r g o f u s i o n . T h e l a rgest stars stop with Fe, m ost won't see the point of oxygen
f u s i o n t h o u g h . I h o p e t h i s m a kes things clear....
VX March 12th, 2004, 10:43 AM

lets not forget that chemical reactions can occure on the sun as well, and at such high tem perature s, any elements form e d , o
for example will react with som e t h i n g e l s e a l m ost im ediatly (most probably) Hydrogen.
However it is still able to unde rgo fusion in just that sam e way as the individualy atom, as would the two hydrogens it was
bonded to.

lets not forget that chemical reactions can occure on the sun as well, and at such high tem perature s, any elements form e d , o
for example will react with som e t h i n g e l s e a l m ost im ediatly (most probably) Hydrogen.
Not really. At those temperatu res all elements are in their ionize d s t a t e , t h a t ' s t h e m a i n d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n p l a s m a a n d g a s .
Elem ents will combine shortly, but their halflife in the soup is insignificant.
nbk2000 March 13th, 2004, 04:35 AM

Since when d id we becom e an astrophysics foru m ?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > basic chem know-how ?
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C o u l d a n y o n e d i r e c t m e t o a g o o d s i t e f o r s o m e b a s i c c h e m isty know-how.Ive had a look around o n the web m y s e l f a n d a l a s
m y searching was in vane all i found was gobeldiegook i didnt understand ,i also had a look in a secondry school science book
i found,but the inform ation i seek was not inclu ded in its litrature. In a nut-shell i would like to know how to safely m i x
chemicals to make compounds. i have looked on megs ccl and i find myself clueless
im n o t l a z y i h a v e l o o k e d

Usually I should slap you on the wrist for not composing your po st properly, but you seem to be one of the very few noobs that
starts out with chemistry.
First, read up on the different properties of the elem ents, there are several periodic tables online.
Then advance through inorganic salts and thier reactions and fin ally study redox theory, necessary for pyrotechnic reactions.

It's always an asset to have som e "hard copy" books to study from when starting out. The net can act as a supplem ent after
that, once you've got the hang of the basics.
I wouldn't suggest de lving into details of all the elemen ts directly. It'll do m ore harm than g o o d t o s o m e o n e without previous
k n o w l e d g e o f c h e m istry. You should start out with the basics- ox ygen, hydrogen, carbon, sulfur, so dium , ca lcium etc. (and their
compunds) Laboratory preparations, industrial preparations, and com mon reactions are a must for a beginner. Sim ultaneously,
you should read up on physical chemistry a bit- redox reactions, chemica l and ionic equilibria. After you get the hang of the
basics, you could proceed to transition elem ents, coordination compound s et al.

C o u l d a n y o n e d i r e c t m e t o a g o o d s i t e f o r s o m e b a s i c c h e m isty know-how.
Try Cam e m a n C h e m istry (http://cavemanchem istry.com /cavebook/) It is a pretty good resource, you will go all the way from
m aking charcoal to black powder, plastics, guncotton an d m ore if you follow the lesson plan.
Sparky March 12th, 2004, 06:55 PM

T h e r e i s t h i s g r a d e 1 1 ( a n d 1 2 t o o B T W ) c h e m istry text book. It's a mod ern book and I think it's pretty good. If you're serious
a b o u t l e a r n i n g s o m e chem istry from the start you could go through it m ethodically and I think it would give you a start.
The entire th ing is 18 7 m egs and not available unless requested since it is too big. The core textbook part (pdf form at) is 48
m egs. It is a vailable here:
www.pigscanfly.ca/pyropage/Chem 1 1 S t u d e n t _ T e x t _ P a g e s . z i p
It won't be there there forever because of the space it takes. Maybe in two weeks it will be g o n e .
Now, each pdf file is titled with the page on it. This isn't a very handy way to browse the book so if anyone has any ideas to
m ake it handier then feel free to let fly.
Unless specifically asked for it, the same thing won't happen with the gr 12 one. This is because it takes up a fair am o u n t o f
room on the web server. Both will of co urse appear (along with other things) on the next FTP when it (hopefully) com e s u p .
wrench352 March 12th, 2004, 07:03 PM

I s e c o n d c a v e m an cem istry,great site. Thank you Bert. Also via Kazaa or emule try chemistry or chem i e a s s e a r c h t e r m s .
T h e r e s a M a c M i l l a n p u b l i s h i n g C h e m istry book out there that I b elieve is high sch ool level,in addition to Vogel and the college
level stuff. I found a little boo k by Barrons at m y local book store called C hemistry:The Easy W ay. It was m eant for high
schoolers to get their grades up. Its great and I love it,would'nt part with it for the world.

W ell for the basic knowledge for what you would need tho know for pyrotechnics and chemistry, you would want to ta k e a t l e a s t
a highschool chemistry class. they teach things that help with m aking pyrotechnics such as double replacm e n t s , r e d o x
reactions, ect. If you are looking for a way to teach yourself chem istry check amazon.com or anoth er online book store where
you can buy a highschool or colledeg chem istry book.
Mendeleev March 20th, 2004, 01:27 AM

I actually find that learning the science behind chem istry is not the hard part, it can be easily researched th o u g h h i g h s c h o o l o r
college level text boo ks available at the library, as well as other books, actual courses, an d a wealth of online information. The
p r o b l e m I found is learning th e practically applicable process of chem istry, just basically la boratory techniques, learning the
m ethods of distillation, proper filtering, proper vacuum techniques, how water asp irators work and how to m a k e t h e m f o r $ 1 5 ,
dehydrating certain products, and how to im provise with im p u r e O T C chem i c a l s . T h e r e a s o n i s t h a t m o s t o f t h e s e p r o b l e m s
apply to the hom e chem ist wh ereas the schools have ACS, analytical, and lab grade reagents and proper vacuum sources, they
do not teach methods of distillation, chem ical purification, and such. Sure they teach the basic how to dilute, titrate, and etc,
but they rare ly teach that which to a home chemist is truly golden: the actual synthesis of and purification of desired
substances. Even when doing synthesis in school, they usually never purify the product of the synthesis, because they do not
intend to use it, like when we were doing fulminate synthesis in very sm all trace amounts, we just left it in solution instead o f
filtering it out, and used chem icals such as silver nitrate , which a re not easily available or m aybe not at all to the OTC chem ist.
Most of this I have been able to figure out with the help of the forum m embers, but I still don't kn ow what the hell they are
talking about when they refer to "refluxing" or "reflux distillation". Anyway, I have borrowed a 1941 book called "Brief Course
In O rganic Chem istry" by Reynold C. Fuson, R a l p h C o n n o r , C h a r l e s C . Price, and H.R. Snyder; from my AP chem istry teacher.
The book was written in 1941 and thus contains little of the censorship of m ost of todays chemistry books. It is written in
sim p l e e a s y t o u n d e r s t a n d l a n g u a g e ( I t h i n k ) a n d p r o v i d e s a w e a l t h o f k n o w l e d g e on organic chem istry and its reactions. It has
tons of useful syntheses outlined such as acetamide, acetic anhydride, etc. The really nice part of the book is the back which
has a 50 page section on proper laboratory techniques such as distillation, gas generation and harvesting, filtering, drying,
bubbling, and etc. If you are looking to get into amateur chemistry this book is definitely on m y top 5 list.
I a l s o h a d a c o u p l e o f q u e s t i o ns, which is m ore pure, ultrapure or ultratrace grade reagents, and is there anything higher than
those? Also, I am very curious concerning acid strength, I have always believed nitric to be the strongest, but when considering
corrosion of organic substances would sulfuric b e stronger than nitric? And what if you had anhydrous HCl under enough
pressure to make it liquid, that would would m a k e i t a b o u t 4 0 M i f a t t h e s a m e density as nitric acid, whereas anhydrous nitric is
25M. And what of perchloric, HI, and HBr? Its so freakin' confusing.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > A short guide to "tagging"
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View Full Version : A short guide to "tagging"

Going throug h s o m e threads, I came across qu ite a few instances of inco mplete/incorrect tags which hinder one's reading, so I
thought maybe a thread listing the syntax of all the existing tag s would be a handy resource. Anyway, here g o e s :
The basic formatting tags
The Bold tag:

Syntax: Text that should appear in bold.
The Italics tag:

Syntax: Text that should appear in italics.
The Underline tag:

Syntax: Text that should appear underlined.
Fonts, sizes, and colours
To change the font:

Syntax: [ FONT=font_name ]Text which appears in special font.[/FONT]
For font_nam e, replace the name of the font to be used. (eg. Arial) Be sure to use only those "system fonts" which everybody
is sure to have.
To change the font size:

Syntax: Text which appears in a different font size.
For x, replace an integer between 1 an d 7.
To change the font colour:

Syntax: Text that appears in a separate colour.
For colour, you could replace any one of the com mon colours (eg. Red, Black, DarkRed etc.). For m o r e o p t i o n s s e e t h e
advanced reply sectio n.
Text Alignm ent
To align text to the left:

Syntax: Text that is to be left-aligned.
To align text to the right:

Syntax: Text that is to be right-aligned.
To center text:
Syntax: Text that is to be centered.
Inserting links and im a g e s
Inserting hyperlinks:
Syntax: [ UR L=url_of_resource]The text link.[/URL]
For url_of_resource, replace th e complete web (not local!!) url of the file you're linking to.
Inserting im a g e s :
Syntax: im g_url
For img_url, replace the complete web url of the im age you want to display.
Note: Make sure you adhere to the rules while posting links and im a g e s .
S o m e additional tags 'n tips
T h e q u o t e t a g:
Syntax: [ QU O T E = s p e a k e r ] W h a t t h e s p e a k e r s a i d . [ / Q U O TE]
For speaker, replace the nam e of the person whose words you're quoting .
The subscript tag:

Syntax: Text that appears as subscript.
The superscript tag:

Syntax: Text that appears as superscript.
Use the subscript and superscript tags to post accurate chem ical form ulae. It not only looks better, but it also reduces the
chances of som eone m isreading complex forulae, too.
T o s t a t e t e m peratures, use:
xx.x o C / F
Note: To ensure that the software didn 't interpret the demonstra tions as actual ta gs, I had to include a spa ce before the
closing brack et of the tags. This space should be omitted when actually using the tags.
nbk2000 March 13th, 2004, 05:27 AM

An easier way to mak e t h e d e g r e e s y m bol, as relates to angles and temperatures, is to use "& #186;". (No quotes or space)
& #186;F translates into F

Neat, huh? Am azing what extended character codes can do for you.
Y o u c a n a l s o u s e h e x idecim al color codes, rather then "R ed" or such, in your font tag.
BTW , nice to see a newbie do something useful for a ch ange. :)
And while all these options give a person awesom e capabilites, so too must that power be tempered by the wisdom in knowing
when NOT to use it.
People who turn their posts in to kalidescopic displays o f the color spectrum will soon disappear like a rainb ow on a sunny day.
;)
S a m e too with varying font sizes, differing type fonts, etc.
Use the power wisely, or the dark side will squash you! :D

That alt trick to print extended ascii characters doesn't work for m e, for som e reason... Every tim e I insert a special character,
when I preview the message, a different specia l character shows up!
nbk2000 March 14th, 2004, 02:00 AM

http://www.cloford.com/resources/charcodes/sym bols.htm
W hich characters are displayed depends on the character set your compu ter is using, which varies with your O/S and region.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > AP used in bread making??
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View Full Version : AP used in bread making??

From Ullman's:
Bread flour also undergoes aging or maturing and concomitant improvement in baking performance with storage [103], [104]. The presumption has been made that aging is an
oxidative process. If flour is stored long enough after milling, it slowly bleaches, supposedly because of air oxidation. Interestingly, high ratio cakes can be produced from
nontreated cake flour if it is stored for about eight months. Recent reports suggest that also other mechanisms are involved in the aging of wheat and wheat flour. For
example, the break down of the lipid bodies in the endosperm has been related to the aging phenomenon [105], [106]. In an attempt to speed up the aging process a number
of oxidizing agents are added at the mill (azodicarbonamide, acetone peroxide, chlorine dioxide, and potassium bromate). These oxidants improve the bread-making potential
of the flour, but do not replace aging.
Compounds with both bleaching and maturing effects include oxygen, ozone, chlorine, and chlorine dioxide. The improvers azodicarbonamide and acetone peroxide have been
approved by the FDA for inclusion with their "Standards of Identity" for flour as bleaching and maturing agents. Acetone peroxide performs a dual function of bleaching and
maturing.
In general, the level of potassium bromate, iodate, acetone peroxide, or azodicarbonamide added at the mill varies from 5 to 20 mg/kg; ascorbic acid is added at about 25
mg/kg; chlorine dioxide containing 20 % free chlorine is used at 15 mg/kg.
Oxidants vary in their oxidation potential and oxidation rate. Atmospheric oxygen is a slow oxidant; chlorine dioxide functions rapidly. Iodates, acetone peroxide, and
azodicarbonamide act much more rapidly than bromates.
WTF? :confused:

but was afraid to post about it being a neWb and all.
It has to be the same compund, no?

Acetone peroxide is something you might want to search the forum on. You'll find out that it is unsatable and decomposes (as with all peroxides) so you can't store it. My guess
is that the AP decomposes, helping in the oxidation of the flour and what is left in the flour is such a miniscule amount/not AP anymore that it doesn't matter.
tom haggen March 12th, 2004, 11:40 PM

It doesn't sound all that odd to me, knowing that acetone peroxide is non-toxic. pyrojunkie who the fuck are you telling to search the forum? Anyone who has belonged to this
forum for longer than 2 days know that acetone peroxide subliminates in normal atmospheric conditions.
MightyQuinn March 13th, 2004, 12:45 AM

Did I just get out-n00bed?
I gave up on AP somewhere between the reading and the dreaming stage.
On to safer/greener pastures.
Zeitgeist March 13th, 2004, 01:09 AM

http://www.grokfood.com/regulations/172.802.htm
This is supported on dozens of food additive pages;
I wonder if home bread manufacture could be an excuse for AP manufacture and possession
nbk2000 March 13th, 2004, 03:30 AM

At 20mg/Kg of flour?
Unless you're Amish and grind your own flour, or run a bakery, you'd have no deniability.
Especially people like the (now dead) n00bie who makes almost a kilo a shot worth of AP at a time. At that rate, you'd have to own a grain silo facility to have plausible
deniability for possession.
And this is old news as it's in the '99 archives. :)

Bread making seems to get more interesting all the time! I knew that NCl3 was once upon a time used to bleach bread, and was called "Agene". Its use, however, was
stopped when they suspected that bread made in this way drove dogs mad! Weird... :rolleyes:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Searching for a M7 2 66m m Law
Rocket
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View Full Version : Searching for a M72 66mm Law Rocket

Im looking for deactivated law rocket tubes,pre f e r a b l y a U S s o u r c e . I v e s e e n o n e o n e b a y a n d o n e i n t h e U K. The o n e o n e b a y
cost $350 :O . I think thats a little steep. Feel free to em ail m e .
MightyQuinn March 13th, 2004, 12:48 AM

I m ight be able to aq uire said item . Let m e contact som e o n e .
nbk2000 March 13th, 2004, 03:33 AM

Only $350? That's a bargain, actually, as they (military) no longer sell deactivated LAWS or such to the public anymore, all
such item s b e i n g d e s t r o y e d b y s m eltin g or crushing, prior to selling for scrap m etal content.

W ell rats! Thanks for the info,I could have sworn I'd seen them around for cheaper at the arm y/navy surplus stores. Still if
a n y o n e s h o u ld know of any at a decen t price, feel free to drop m e a n e m ail.

Just get one for yourself ;)
I have a friend who found a (slightly dam a g e d ) , u s e d L A W 66 on a training range. When i first joined army cadets, it was a
regular thing to raid other cam ps, and go for nightly forays into live firing areas. It was in good condition apart from b e i n g
s m a shed against a tree, which just put a dent in the sid e of it. Back then it was practice to fire it th e n s m a s h i t o n t h e n e a r e s t
t r e e a n d d u m p it to render useless. Obviously som e o n e d i d n ' t s m a c k i t h a r d e n o u g h .
I k n o w s o m e one with 25 - 30 5.56m m m i n i m i rounds in a belt, live, I have a stun grenade, lots of am mo casings, parchute
f l a r e b o d i e s , I e v e n f o u n d a 7 .62m m (SLR) projectile on one of the ranges. W e cam e a c r o s s a n u m b e r o f u n u s u a l t h i n g s , l i k e
a big network of wirse which we think were claymore com m a n d l i n e s , a d o z e n d e a d s h e e p a n d l o t s o f s h o t g u n s h e l l s w h i c h w a s
probably som e officers being wankers, trenches, piles and piles of spent amm o i n a n d a r o u n d i m p rovised m achine gun pits
and the like. At that age I was in heaven.
It's all there, just find som e o n e i n t h e r e s e r v e s o r c a d e t s w h o h a s a m a p of live firing areas. Go on a camping trip sometim e...
Antman April 8th, 2004, 08:09 PM

I dont know about do wn there but up here the m ilitary deems th e r o c k e t s t o b e d e s t r o y e d d u e t o t h e e a s e o f t u r n i n g t h e
e m pty rocket into a m ultitude of destructive devices.
Bert April 9th, 2004, 01:36 AM

the m ilitary deems th e r o c k e t s t o b e d e s t r o y e d d u e t o t h e e a s e o f t u r n i n g t h e e m pty rocket into a multitude of destructive
devices.
Saw a couple of used LAW rocket launchers at a gun show a couple of weeks ago. About $70.00 each, they were still there
when I left. This was in St. Paul, MN.
wrench352 April 9th, 2004, 09:20 PM

Now see,thats the price I rem e m ber! I've since been able to procure one. I paid well less than the ebay price but still waaaaay
m ore than $70. Hey Bert check your m a i l p l e a s e .
BTW ,I'm still looking for nice specim e n s .

Hey Bert check your mail please.
Sorry, nothing in m y em ail-

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > fistloads
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chokingvictim78 March 14th, 2004, 11:02 PM

I just finished making a fistload. I cut off the tapered tip of a CO2 cartridge, and filled it with m o l t e n l e a d , a n d s a n d e d d o w n
the rough ed ges of the cut end. Completed, it's slightly less than 3 inches long and a hefty 1/2 lb. It fits m y hand well enough,
a l t h o u g h i t i s s l i g h t l y s h o r t . H a s a n y o n e e l s e h e r e h a d a n y e x p e r i e n c e i n m a k i n g t h e m /using them ? For how sim ple they are to
m ake, they're handy to have with you. I've see n t h e m m a d e o u t o f m a n y t h i n g s , e v e n s p a r k p l u g s , a l t h o u g h they don't offer
the weight, they still re-inforce a fist. If you carry one, what's your preferred type?
nbk2000 March 15th, 2004, 04:35 AM

F i s t l o a d s m e a n y o u i n t e n d t o h i t s o m e one with a fist.
T h i s m eans you're either giving up the a d v a n t a g e t h a t a w e a p o n g i v e s y o u o v e r a n e m p t y h a n d e d o p p o n e n t , o r t h a t you are

outgunned by someone who does have a weapon.
You never want to be on equa l footing with an enem y, or even closely m atched, but rather m assively outgu nning them .
Y o u ' d b e b e t t e r o f f l o a d i n g t h e C O 2 c a rtridge with APAN and thro wing it at them . Either tha t, or run away, because your
o p p o n e n t m ay just kick your ass regardless of your fist load. :(
Plus, you should never hit with a fist, but with p alm strikes. The bones of your fist can easily be broken on a skull, or the
tendons cut on a tooth if you hit the m outh, no t to men tion the risk of an infectio u s d i s e a s e . : e e k :
Give u p t h e f i s t a n d m a k e a g un or use a knife .
chokingvictim78 March 15th, 2004, 01:17 PM

Yeah, I know about the drawbacks of fist-fighting. I always carry a knife on me, n o m atter what, but som e t i m e s k n i v e s a r e n o t
worth the leg al percussions. If an unarm e d p e r s o n m u g s y o u , t h reatening to kick your ass if you don't hand over your mone y,
and you cut them up, you're fucked if anyone saw you. "Excessive force" and all of that bullshit. Same situation, you slip the
fistload out of your pocket quietly as soon as you know whats going down, and knock them down. A weighted fist can m a k e t h e
difference between a bloody n o s e a n d s l i g h t l y s t u n n e d , a n d a b r o k e n n o s e a n d k n o c k e d d o w n . S i n ce they're not all that
c o m m on, it won't be suspected, and you bought yourself time to run like hell, and no assault charges against you. Since
they're cheap, they can be tossed down a sewer/whatever if you are susp ected of having one. I think they have their uses if
one wants to keep within the law.
shooter3 March 15th, 2004, 10:24 PM

They're heavy to carry in your pocket.
W hat I use is a pair of wiring scizzors. They come with a leather scabbord. I use them all the tim e a t w o r k a n d t h e y d o u b l e a s
a totally excusable push knife . I've punched them through 1/4 inch plywood with ease. I brandished at a m u g g e r o n e n i g h t
a n d h e l e f t s k i d m arks with his sneakers trying to get away. (I think he thought it was a gun coming out of a holster).
A-BOMB March 15th, 2004, 11:06 PM

Here is was I would do, I would rem elt the lead and put an piece of wire rope 1/16" will do into the lead, you now have a
ball&chain like weapon that will extend you reach and your power just swing it around a few times and let it hit som e thing. Also
in a jiffy you have a gurot (sp) to strangle them with.
chokingvictim78 March 16th, 2004, 12:11 AM

I was thinking the sam e thing earlier this afternoon, A-BOMB, although a little different. I'm p i c k i n g u p a c a s e o f l e a d m u s k e t
a m m o a n d a few cheap CO2 cartridges, and a thin chain, m a y b e a f o o t l o n g . O ne weighted cartridge will be f i x e d t o e a c h e n d ,
with chain be cause the lead will solidify in between the links, providing a m uch m ore solid hold. Short flail a nd garrote. It could
also be doubled over, thus striking with both ends. I'm fairly certain it could sm a s h h a n d s , e l b o w s , a n d t h e l i k e e a s i l y .
U n c o m mon weapons like fistloads (well, at least not things that first come to m ind when thinking of h2h we apons) interest m e ,
but oh well :( . I'd still carry one where stuff like the flail, knives, guns, e ct. would be considered excessive force. Especially if
y o u p u l l e d a f l a i l a n d b r o k e b o n e s , I ' m sure the lawyers would have a fie ld day. And sorry for all these posts in the sam e d a y
in the sam e t h r e a d , b u t t h e r e s e e m s t o b e a c o m plete lack of stuff to do today. I'm trying to keep them as relevan t as
possible.
festergrump March 18th, 2004, 01:34 AM

Consider what the charges against you will be if caught with such item s as a knife, pistol, kubotan (fistload), ect. W h e n y o u
weig h them all out they just m ight be so similar as for you to op t the best one. Not like youre going up the river for having
protection.
It wouldnt m atter if I were searched while walking down the street with a black powder revolver tucked in my waistband or a
penknife in my pocket. I would be charged with possession of a concealed weapon (Black powder pistols and rifles are not
considered FIREARMS in the USA. I e ncourage all felons to own a few :D ). But the fine would run m e a b o u t 1 0 0 b u c k s . A
citation for having a roll of quarters (or other coins) wou ld be thrown out of court even if the piggy did feel I was gonna thrash
s o m eone with it in m y fist. Just dont tape up the roll with electrical tape or similar. It kinda blows the innocent roll of coin
fascade right out the water.
I say fuck it, carry a shooter a nd dont get searched. BT W, I thought all Texans were pack in heat, anyway ;)

Yes it does pay to be prepared for such situations.I myself carry telescopic nunchuks,mainly for intim idation.Ive never actually
beat the crap outta anyone with them but i can put out a fairly impressive display of kick ass when swingin them
round.However it is m uch easier to put on a display then to actually use this weapon in a skuffle soley because when you hit a
s o m e o n e / s o m ething the nun chucks tend to have a mind of their own and it is fairly easy to cause m o r e d a m age to yourself
then to your opponent i learned this the hard way when practising on a 4 ltr water bottle suspended from th e washin g line in
m y back garden(a lesson well learnt and it took 2 weeks before i had the balls to start practising a g a i n )
Anyway m y p oint is that phycsological tactics are all to com m o n l y f o r g o t t e n a b o u t w h e n f a c i n g n u m e r o u s o p p o n e n t s . I h a v e
f o u n d m yself in a few scraps and phycsologial tactics ha ve saved m y Hyd e and allowed m e t o k e e p f a c e .
I cam e to po nder this 3yrs ago when i was at a friends party, his parents were hom e and we went out into the front garden to
s m o ke the wacky tabaki 2 dudes and their lady friends cam e s t a g g e r i n g u p t h e s t r e e t a n d g a v e u s t h e e v i l e y e , s o m y s e l f a n d
m y am igo stepped out onto the street and stared back (there was trouble a brewin). The 2 guys promptly turned around and
a s k e d w a s t h e r e a p r o b l e m " n o bother were just standin out here"came the sarcastic reply.
The punks then proceeded to take off their shoes while telling us that one of the girls that was the re was pregnant and they
did not care as to whether we were to fight or not.Them t a k i n g o f f t h e i r s h o e s a l o n e m a d e us very uneasy not yet alone that
one of the girls was p regnant,long story short we finished the joint and m ade our way back to the party som e what hum b l e d .
I reflected on the incident and cam e to the conclusion that:
1. fightin some dude i knew nothin about for no particular reason with his
PREGNANT G/F watching was pretty bad
2. W hy were they taking off their shoes,did they have m artial arts training
and what ma d e t h e m s o c o c k y
The fact that they were so con fident put us off straight away and cast a shadow of doubt o n whether it was in fact prudent to
continue.
I took this enlightening event and incorporated it into m y own m eanderings when the odds were severely stacked against
m e.....
walk ing to my local video store i encou ntered a pack about 10 freaks with there I'm hard pack m entality.Th e y t a u n t e d m e a s i
w a s m a k i n g m y way into the store and i just ignored them.Strolling hom e a b o u t 1 5 m inutes later they were harassing m e for
s m o kes and what not.... i walked quite calm ly towards the well lit adjacent car park and sa id unexpectedly to the one with the
bigg e s t m o u t h " c o m e e r e a n d t a k e a s m o k e o u t o f m y pocket" he approached me with his buddies in tow proclaim ing that i
thought that i was hard, so i walked to meet him with m y fists held back and shouted so they all could hear that i would take
ALL of them o n o n e b y o n e , p u s h e d t h e one with the big mouth and told him that i didn't want any trouble but i was gonna kick
ALL of their asses if they wanted to continue on this escapade it
e n d e d t h a t n o n e o f t h e m a d v a n c e d a n y further and i vigilantly turned m y back to them and walked away
I was in for a beating and my mentality was/is the best defence is a strong offence.U se their pack mentality against
them.Show them y o u h a v e n o f e a r t h e r f o r e m a k i n g t h e m question their own confidence.If your gonna get your ass kicked do it
in style,the mem ory alone is enough to stop th e punks from trying it again
A n o t h e r e x a m p l e a o l d b u d d y o f m ine was getting beaten by the sam e p ack of wankers almost on a weekly basis.O n e g l o r i o u s
day when they were a bout to kick him s e n s e l e s s h e d e c i d e d t h a t h e h a d h a d e n o u g h , h e l a y d o w n o n t h e g round and invited
them to kick him while he was down....... they were freaked out by what he was doing and let him be LOL
The only other thing i can add is not to show your hand till you have to ie not revealing any concealed weapons or showing
t h e m y o u a r e a f r a i d . T o m e beatin someone sensless is a last resort espeicially using a weapon,thats not to say i wont fight
dirty :)
Desmikes March 27th, 2004, 11:27 PM

I don't know if you all have seen those tiny dum bell-shaped walking weights, (sold for wom en to get extra workout from
walk ing - I guess), anyway they m a k e a m a z i n g f i s t l o a d s b e c a u s e # 1 t h e y d o n ' t q ualify as a concealed weapon, #2 they fit
PERFECTLY in your hand, much better than any CO2 cartrige, your fist will fit snugly in between the flat circu lar m etal things on
the ends, #3 b e c a u s e m ost of the weight is on the outside of the fist, you will be able to punch with knuckles (as opposed to
busting your fingers when holding large-volum e objects), you can also effectively strike with the side of you r fist (wh ich is
valuable in tight com bat).
If you will be looking for one, I suggest choosing the one with the narrowest connecting rod (center piece of a dumb ell)
Ropik April 3rd, 2004, 04:12 AM

Good fistloads are D-cell batteries. They are perfectly le gal.
But I think is m uch m ore better to carry telesco pic baton than fistloads because it's longer(and MUC H m ore harder) than your
hand, you ca n block with it and when you aren't really dum b, you can not dam age yourself with it. However, expandable baton
is m ore susp icious than batteries.
Good distraction can be made by throwing CO2 cartridges filled with lead(or black powder and with fuse...no , I'm just joking) or
you can use large ball bearings(i.e. 1-1/2 inch dia.). They are VERY effective to jolt your o pponent, slow him down and m a k e
him think twice.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Historical K3\/\/ |_ ness
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Bigfoot March 15th, 2004, 11:54 AM

S o m e y e a r s a g o , a f r i e n d p o i n t e d m e to a website, http://www.textfiles.com /
Choose your mirror, and find historical (and hysterical) textfiles, many of which were originally hosted on BBSs back in the 80's.
I used to hang with a bunch of com puter geeks in school, and when I browsed this site, I recognized a ton of the k3wl stuff
from cafeteria discussions with those g uys.
Take a look yourselves, esp. under "Anarchy", see some of the sources of k3wl |_337 "inform ation."
I figure the watercooler is the only possible place for this. A good laugh, easy reading.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Annm +al
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Im about to set off 240g of AN with 35m l of NM and 20g of germ an dark AL in about 1.5 hours. Im h a v e a 3 g p r e s s e d A P c a p .
Is there anything I can do to improve m y chances of a full detonation. Everything is nice, dry and fresh. If anyone has a
s u g g e s t i o n p l e a s e p o st ASAP. Thanks.
This is my first NM charge
blindreeper March 16th, 2004, 03:19 AM

Not really a sugestion towards the detonationg of the charge but run away fast! W h e n I s a y run fast I m e a n f u c k i n g m o v e !
About the de t o n a t i o n m a y b e h a v e i t p l a c e d u n d e r s o m ething to create pressure to ensure a full detonation? Like a big fat rock
:)

:mad: :m ad:
It didnt work, the cap went and everything was scattered around...It might be the cap, does a 3g cap sound m ore like a pop
that a crack from lets say 200m away? I hand press the m. Lets see...I put everything in a 20oz coke bottle it was filled about
1/2 way. The cap was placed in the m iddle of the powder, it was kept closed untill I inserted the cap. When I added the NM and
closed the bottle it generated some pressure so I let it out and reclosed it. I cant think of any good reason why it didnt go.
W hat a waste of chem s....
Guerilla March 16th, 2004, 02:41 PM

Hm m.. m aybe you should use a bigger proportion of NM, som e t h i n g l i k e 2 5 % a n d k e e p i n g t h e A l c o n t e n t s a m e . . t h o u g h I
doubt this was the on ly reason it didnt work, if dry ap was used. When a bit bigge r charge goes off it should look so m e t h i n g
like this (http://www.geocities.com /pyrotuksia/350gANNM.avi ). :)

W hat other reasons could there be?
Guerilla March 16th, 2004, 05:01 PM

W ell adding m e t a l t o a n e x p l o s i v e u s u ally decreases its sensitivity and while your m ix was already somewhat NM deficient, it
could be the reason why it failed to detonate from a m ere blasting cap.. If your after optimal VoD and sensitivity, le ave Al out.
Usin g s o m e extra alu minium will give som e nice therm obaric effects though, once set off. :) Try using plain ANNM as a
booster..

How long before you tried to det was the NM ad ded? 1.5 hrs? Ive read that you have to let it sit at least an hour and up to 8
hours. Also I agree with Guerilla try a touch more NM say 50ml (for 240gm s AN). Maybe next tim e let it sit over night.
Hey,you would'nt have any old deactivated LAW s l a y i n a r o u n d y o u d o n t n e e d ?

I'm surprised it didn't work for you!
Not to sure o n the noise of the cap - I've never heard a 3gm det from so far away!
The cap was pressed, so that should be ok. Everything was dry, so that should be o k .
W as the ANNMAl settled or packed? I usually give the charge a shake to loosen everything up before puttin g it in place and
inserting the cap.
I'd definitely suspect the NM quantity. I've never done a proper study, but charges that have failed for uncertain reasons also
had a low NM content (<20%). 20-25% has always worked for me.
Soaking tim e of the NM - 30 mins works for m e. I usually add the NM before leaving for the blasting site.
I've never had a dud with ANNM using a ~1gm pressed AP or HMTD cap, 20% NM and finely powdered AN. I usually oven dry
the AN after powdering, but I'm sure I've skipped this drying step a couple of times and still had a full det.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > fall-out (o f hair that is)
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I was watching a documentary on Che . It said that a aborted attempt on de-facing guevarra, which involved placing thallium
salts in his shoes to m ake ALL his hair fall out. My question is are the effects from this pe rm anant and/or how long would it
t a k e t h e m etal in question to take effect.
EP March 16th, 2004, 07:46 PM

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Castro? Because I've never heard tha t about Che, they just killed him f l a t o u t a n d s k i p p e d
the beard thing...
zaibatsu March 17th, 2004, 02:14 AM

I'm pretty su re this was castro ...
darkdontay March 17th, 2004, 05:37 AM

It would be neat to study m ore up on the effcts of thallium ... as that could lead to some interesting uses.. mostly for shits and
gigg les.
Also thallium is realy poisonious IIRC . I'm not fresh on the LD50 though.
This is what I would consider a water color thread topic.
mesmashy March 17th, 2004, 08:18 AM

MY bad it was castro.... so tha llium is highly poisonus,im looking for som e u n d e r - h a n d e d n o n l e t h a l r e v e n g e i d e a s a n d i l i k e d
this one because it would be possible to slip so me under the fiber lining of a chair,where the inividual would spend m ost of the
day.But not to endanger life.
vulture March 17th, 2004, 09:51 AM

1g of thallium is deadly, but by the tim e that dose has been reached the victim will alread y suffer from severe effects.
The antidote is "Berliner Blau", Iron(III)hexacyanoferrate(II).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Phone Sex
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atr March 18th, 2004, 09:04 PM

Let's say that som eone invented a cellphone with a digital camera built in . Talk to som e o n e a n d s e n d t h e m a p h o t o a t t h e
s a m e tim e . Let's say that you were thinking about buying 2 , one for you and on e for the girlfriend . Let's say that the
girlfriend would be m ore than happy to send you very private photos at work or anywhere as long as you were the only one to
view them . Question is , can the photos be intercepted by anyone ? Is there a scanner out there that will p ick up conversations
a n d p h o t o s ? W ill big brother or your n eighbour have pics of the girlfriend or maybe you pinned to thier wall ? Of course this is
fictional and for inform ational purposes only but if anyone has a n answer , i need it , fast .

S o m e o n e h a s a l r e a d y i n v e n t e d c a m e r a p h o n e s , e v e n t h o u g h y o u s e e m t o k n o w t h a t . J u s t m aking sure. Ye s, I'm pretty sure
that people can intercept them . It's called phreaking. (sp?) One has to b e f a i r l y e x p e r i e n c e d a n d n e e d s s p e c i a l e q u ipm ent to
do it, though , so I wo uldn't worry.

He's either trying to con his girlfriend into sending him nudie pics, or wha t pics of som eone else's girlfriend.
Thin k about it: The image will be digitised, the bits will be modu lated into the radio waves just like conversation or text
m essages. So if the call is secure, then so will the pictures.
You used to be able to listen into cell phone ca lls with a n ordinary scanner (just like you could with cordless phones), but that
was in the days of analogue systems. Nowadays the networks are digital and the signals are encrypted, so no you can't listen
in with a scanner.
Intercepting a transm itted picture file and decrypting it would be possible , but you're talking governm ent re sources.
Anyway, end of topic because:
a) Intercepting cell phone calls has been discussed several times
b) This has FA to do with Explosives & W e a p o n s .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Kewls and Cakes
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Haggis March 19th, 2004, 08:12 PM

I always seem to find stuff like this. This takes shooting at each other with roman candles to a whole new le vel.
http://www.ghettobase.com/m edia/humantarget.wmv
Quite funny, but I found it getting old nearing the end of the shots.
tom haggen March 19th, 2004, 11:47 PM

That was awsome, I like how he jum ps around when he gets hit. It looks like a bad power ranger show or som e t h i n g .
knoddas March 20th, 2004, 07:52 AM

Filesize: 3.7 meg
I like the ending, when his friend fcks up with the water :)
DirtyD an March 21st, 2004, 03:33 AM

Haha i like the part where one shot up into his helm et and he started screaming :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Dmso=m s m
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mixnut March 21st, 2004, 02:06 AM

My first post and question. Sirs, is dimethyl sulfo m ethoxide equivalent with Methyl sulfom e t h o x i d e ( s o l d a t h e a l t h s h o p s ) ?
One thing is obvious they both have sulfur. Its been docum e n t e d b y s o m e research that they can carry chem ical substances
thru derm al contact only? How true and what com p o u n d s a n d s u b s t a n c e s a r e t h o s e ? B i o l o g i c a l s s u c h a n t i v e n i m s / a l k a l o i d s /
antirabies possible th ru such substance? How does one synthesis DMSO or MSM. Tried researching but to no avail. I am a s k i n g
for synthesis because it is not available in our locale. Lastly where can i purchase the CD's that contain inform ation that
m embers of this sites give. Thanks
megalomania March 21st, 2004, 06:30 PM

I could not find anyth ing on m ethyl sulfom etho xide, but from a glance it sounds like this m a y i n d e e d b e D M S O . Y o u h a v e b o t h
METHYL and sulfoMETHoxide indicating two different me thyl groups attached to a sulfoxide. Of course I cou ld be wrong...
D M S O d o e s i n d e e d a s s i s t t h e p a s s a g e o f c h e m icals through the skin, this can be a benefit in medicine whe n the introduction of
drugs into the body is desired, or a bane in the lab when using DMSO with other toxins m a y b e d a n g e r o u s i f s p i l l e d .
I thought I h ad the synthesis of DMSO around (your not the first person to ask m e this) b ut I have long since lost it. It's not
on my list of precursors to research, but it is interesting nonethe less. I shall hit the reference library tomorrow and see what I
can dig up. I will requ est som e of the old journals if there are any.
flashpoint April 9th, 2004, 02:13 PM

DMSO is dangerous in other ways too, it can allow for transderm al use of say, steroids or other prohorm ones...but it can also
allows bacteria and other nasties in as well...thus why people wrap there body with seran wrap...the y wrap the part that they
a p p l i e d t h e D M S O solution too.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Book request: Build your own
fuel cells
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megalomania March 21st, 2004, 06:19 PM

I a m looking for this ebook, Build Your O wn Fuel Cells.pdf. It is a 7 MB p df file circulating around out there. My copy from E
Donkey has been stuck for a week now :( This book has a few choice item s I want to browse...
MightyQuinn March 21st, 2004, 07:33 PM

I h a v e f o u n d the file you are looking for and uploaded it here:
http://50caliber.net/pdfs/howtobuildafuelcell.pdf
DirtyD an March 21st, 2004, 07:35 PM

How far along are you m e g a l o mania? Im currently at 2% from just a couple m i n u t e s a n d s e e i n g 3 - 4 u s e r s a t t h e m o m ent. Ill
let you know how it comes, an d if you want i can give you m y FTP info or something so you can get it from m e . O r m e s s e n g e r
or som ething, just checked again and its at 2.5% so its coming along fairly fast. Hope i can help out
MightyQuinn March 23rd, 2004, 05:43 PM

DirtyDan, you can use the link I posted above to get the file also. No waiting.
Morbo March 24th, 2004, 04:24 AM

W ow this document is great. Im still only in the theory behind fu el cells but this sounds like a grea t technology.
I hope it replaces fossil fuels soon. I would highly recom m end reading it to anyone who glances at this thread. :)
Tuatara March 24th, 2004, 11:46 PM

U S P a t e n t 6 6 7 0 0 6 5 m ay be of interest if you're into fuel cells, but can't afford to buy Nafion. It covers the synthesis of several
solid polymer electrolytes from com m on engineering plastics.

Ahh, thanks for the help everyone. Naturally within the hour after I posted this all of a sudden m y 2 week old stagnent
download actually finished :)
Thanks for the patent Tuatara, my interest in the book was prim arily for the proton exchange mem branes...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Bionics - Robotic legs
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chemoleo March 21st, 2004, 06:38 PM

You are going to love this:
First I discovered an article in 'Der Spiegel', the German n e w s m a g a z i n e :

http://www.spiegel.de / s p i e g e l / 0 , 1 5 1 8 , 2 9 1 6 8 1 , 0 0 . h t m l
W hat it says, is that a researcher at Berkely developed robotic legs to be worn on a norm a l p e r s o n , a s a s o rt of aux iliary - and
those legs enable the person to carry >30 kg e ffortlessly!
On that page it gives a picture, so you can see what the robotic legs look like.
Then, upon searching further, you can find a m ore detaile article at
http://www.scienceblog.com/comm u n i t y / m o d u l e s . p h p ? n a m e=News&file=print&sid=2402
I think this is awesom e, now I could possibly walk up Mount Everest without losing m y breath (that is, if I can still breathe at
8800 m).
However, what sucks, is that it works with a little petrol engine, so the soldier who is wearing those auxiliarly legs will have to
refuel now and then at a petrol station!
Now let's hope som eone will design decent fuel cells/batteries, a nd we all could do some serious hiking in the Australian
desert, carrying 30 litres of wa ter ;)
PS not surprisingly, this was funded by DARPA, those guys who also want to incorporate nanotechnology in their soldiers... fo r
f a s t w o u n d h e a l i n g / s e a l i n g a n d such...

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > PETN charges-amounts needed to do the job
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jim2 March 21st, 2004, 10:26 PM

We hear a lot about PETN charges but not too much about the destructive power.Many of us dream of using a HE for a " friends" car( no one in it of course)or a shed or many
other ideas that people think of.Using enough to get a bang but not enough to hurt anyone is very important
Anyone's experience about charge sizes and what they can do would be greatly appreciated.Better to be safe than sorry,now days ,using a charge too large would bring
unwanted attention.Thanks
tom haggen March 21st, 2004, 11:56 PM

well I've been a member here for a couple months now, and I have refrained from bitchin at the newer members. I have seen in other threads were someone that was still
somewhat new like myself was made fun of for bitchin at the newbies. But with some of the pics I have posted I feel like I have at least contributed something. Which makes
me feel privileged enough to say this... FUCKING SEARCH YOU DUMBASS.
MightyQuinn March 22nd, 2004, 12:34 AM

Which makes me feel privileged enough to say this... FUCKING SEARCH YOU DUMBASS.
To this, I would like to add: Should you make it long enough to push the Search button.
Hey, it *is* the "Cooler", right? :p
Anthony March 22nd, 2004, 07:45 AM

There's no point saying "search yo phucker!", he won't find an answer that way, because the question is hopelessly vauge. That's also the reason that no one here will be able
to give him the answer he wants.
I.e.:
450gm for "a car"

375gm x 2 for "a shed"
What the fuck is a "a shed", overall dimensions, material types, construction method, material dimensions, surrounding environment, proximity to people/other buildings,
condition. Same for a car.
You can find guides for charge sizes to breach different sizes of wooden beams, Steel shafts, RSJs etc. Those you can search for.
Boomer March 22nd, 2004, 12:37 PM

The funny thing is, he wants to destroy a car but the charge must not be able to hurt someone, and must not be so loud as to draw atention!
WTF ???
You will need pounds (1+) for these jobs, and one gram can blow your hand to red mist.
I stood one step away from 1/2 pound (behind big tree, fingers in ears) and was unhurt, then I lost fingers to 1/2 gram. So much about a safe charge size ....
The only way to avoid attention is to go miles into the wood, or metres underground. And avoid targets that tell tales! Nobody would guess what made the hole in the ground,
but a blasted letter box is not caused by a fox ... :p
zeocrash March 23rd, 2004, 06:37 PM

On a similar note, what kind of friend are you if you're planning to blow this guy's car into oblivion, I dont know about you but I wouldn't be too happy if someone blew my car
up.
As for bringing unwanted attention, well I think that blowing up someone elses property will bring you all the unwanted attention you can handle
Evil_Tree March 25th, 2004, 10:42 AM

I stood one step away from 1/2 pound (behind big tree, fingers in ears) and was unhurt, then I lost fingers to 1/2 gram. So much about a safe charge size ....
A half gram or PENT removed your finger? Wow.
green beret March 26th, 2004, 03:04 AM

jim2, if you were planning on destroying a large object such as a car, why not use the PETN to detonate some ANFO, ANSOY or something similar, its cheaper, and because of
the ease of manufacturing ANFO etc. you will save yourself time and money, as opposed to making a kilo or whatever of PETN. Yes PETN a very high velocity explosive, but
you could still get the job done with AN based explosives. PETN is a very valuable explosive, dont waste it on bulk charges, unless you have a huge supply.
By the way, don't do it, blowing up a car will surely attract attention, unless it is way out in the middle of nowhere.
PS, its good to be back :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > power labs
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nous March 24th, 2004, 12:48 AM

http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/index.htm l
enjo y
Rhadon March 24th, 2004, 12:05 PM

W ell... not really som ething new, is it? Oh, and having seen som e of your posts I can recomm e n d m a k i n g u s e o f y o u r s h i f t
key.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > E-Books...
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steyr March 24th, 2004, 06:34 PM

I h a v e a s m all question: I've searched whole internet, whole forum and I couldn't found e-books that everyone can reach; o nly
on FTP that I can't access.
I'm looking especially for:

* H o m e m a d e G u n s & H o m e m a d e A m m o , R onald B. Bro wn
* Field Expedient Hand Grenades
* Butane Lighter Hand Grenade
I f a n y o n e c a n g i v e m e p a g e w i t h t h e m , I'll be grateful.
KaZaA and eMule sux, I can't download anything from there. I was looking for Poor Man's Jam e s B o n d V o l u m e s , I ' v e f o u n d
them, but download is frozen.
Evil_Tree March 25th, 2004, 10:51 AM

All o f those books suck. It's all 1337 shit.
aXiate March 26th, 2004, 01:06 AM

i was wanting backyard ballistics, but i cant find it anywh ere!

I have backyard ballistics,its not as good as you'd think . Still,Im planning on scanning it,but its pretty far down the line on
things to do,because of its poor content(IMHO ). Stay tuned though I have som e really good stuff comin do wn the pipe.

sounds good ,
reckon you could send it to me if you ever get it done?
hayden_hayden_hayden@hotmail.com
:D
cheeers

W e'll see what can be arrange d.Agin Im kind of busy right now.Tell you what thou gh last time I checked Backyard Ballistics was
available in store at Barnes and Noble. Bet you wont want it after you look at it,unless you like the catapult plans or
h o m emade carbide cannon (the only stuff that looked interesting to m e )

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Forum woes and impending
doom .
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Im in quite a rut...NBK is threatining m e with death unless I can post some pictures of my railgun. Problem is I dont own a
digital cam era...and im poor as fuck. :( Since I dont have a dig. camera my only other option is scanning in a regular
photo...but I still have to get it developed...
Since I dont feel like getting reported by the photo boot guy (my railgun is very clearly a weapon) I dont know how to get a pic.
Even if i got a developed pic, I would still have to scan in the pic at Kinko's...and I dont know if thats safe either.
I f a n y o n e e l s e h a s e v e r h a d a p r o b l e m like this please help me out...I will be ever in your debt. :D
EDIT: W ow...i just loo ked at the link to Powerlabs provided by nous 2 posts before mine. I had no idea that THAT is what a
railg un is. I just called MINE that beacuse it fire d a steel rail spike!
I wondered why NBK called m e on the "Mr. Wizard" clause...now I know!
I s u r e h o p e h e d o e s n ' t b a n m e because of that m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g
nbk2000 March 25th, 2004, 02:14 AM

If th ere was a misunderstanding, it was on your part, because you didn't adequately describe what you were talking about.
P l e a se detail what it is that yo u ARE talking about, here and now, and I'll decide your fate.
P S : L a c k o f f u n d s i s a n i n a d e q u a t e e x c u s e , a s d i g i t a l c a m e r a s a re availa ble for $20 at W al-Mart, Office Depot, and other

Mega-Retailers. Buy one, use it, return the nex t day saying "My com pute r wouldn't recognize it", and get your $20 back.

My "Railgun" is basically a .75 " BP C annon which fires a 4"sharpened steel spike instead of a ball.
The Barrel is sim ply a 2" solid steel pipe 2.5' long with a .75" bo re. I obtained the pipe on a visit to a waste water treatm ent
plan t which I am designing the bacterial growth grids for in ACAD 2000. T he plant is currently under construction, and they had
several spare feet of this pipe (which is used to support the giant stacks of grids) awaiting pickup. I saw it's potential and asked
to forem an if I could have a section, and he sa wed m e o f f a p i e c e .
In m y girlfrie nds college art room, I melted a crucible of lead in a gas kiln, dipped one en d of the rod in and let it cool to form
an endplug. I then broke the crucible away and sawed off som e o f t h e e x c e s s l e a d.
The frame is constructed of 2 pieces of 1/2" solid steel piping welded parallel to the barrel on each side, bent down around the
e n d p l u g , a n d d o w n a t a 4 5 d e gree angle. There are bra nch offs on the m ain pipe 1 foot from the end which runs parallel to the
barrel for 3 feet. These are 2'9" apart and are weighted down with 2x45 lb barbell weights on the e nds. There is another
s e g m ent running 9" from the end of the horizontal ground-bars back up to the barrel and welded parallel to it for structural
support.
The overall look is of a quadrilateral with some sides extended beyond the intersection. The last foot of the 45 degree
downwards pipe is welded to a 2x3x0.12" steel plate and is inserted firmly into the ground. This as well as the weighted front
end help to control re coil and prevent it from m oving backwards when shot.
All o f the pipe-bending and welding wa s done wih a 20 ton hydraulic hand-press and an arc-welder at the garage I used to work
at.
All m aterials were obtained from Hom e Depot(except th e barrel).
O n a s i d e n o t e . . . T h e l e a d e n d p l u g i s b e g i n i n g t o s e p e r a t e f r o m the barrel. I noticed it on my inspection after the 12th shot. It

just barely wobbles and I dont think it could take another shot :( Im going to rem elt the lead, but this tim e ill heat up the
barrel red-hot with a propane torch to increase m erging of the le ad and steel. I just hope the torch is powerful enough to heat
the barrel ho t enough.
Thankyou for the second chance NBK. :D I assure you I wont screw up ag ain !

Just a thought, but you could put that welding rig to a better use by welding in an endplug i n s t e a d o f u s i n g l e a d f o r a p l u g . I
figure a welded steel plug will far outlast anything as soft as lead.
L e a d w o u l d h a v e b e e n m y L A S T c h o i c e a s I h a v e n o d e s i r e t o b e s u b j e c t e d t o l a r g e a m ounts of it while eng a g i n g i n a n y h o b b y

a n d l e a d i s s i m ply too soft to be useful in this application.
**Edit: If you insist o n (or have no choice but to) use lead, consider clea ning the parts of the pipe that you intend the lead to
stick to with an angle grinder or sandpaper et al. Then use a liberal application of an acid-based flux to help improve your
c h a n c e s o f l e a d b o n d i n g t o s t e e l . Y o u m ay also conside r some alloyed type of lead....think plum bers solde r.
**End of edit.

If would take about 4 0 bucks worth of coil to have enough m etal for an entire plug...Plus thats im p o s s i b l e . T h e m elting coil
would just destroy the inside of the barrel, and send spatters of metal deep into the tube thus ruining my cannon. The only
thing like that I could do would be to pound a .75 inch steel rod into the end and weld it into place. However, the weld would
shatter on th e first shot and send the endplug flying out. Not to mention that the end is still fouled up with excess lead mak ing
the insertion of the rod nearly im possible without reboring it...which i do not have tools for.
No, I think i'll keep this design, and hopefully the plug will stay in place after this new m e t h o d .
EDIT: I think ill go down to AC E and see if they have an y of that flux you m entioned. Thans for the tip!
H e r e s a n o t h e r i d e a ; I a m full of them . I p icked this up f rom o n e o f t h o s e d a m n e d m echanical, blah, blah, blah shows on
the brain (drain) channel.
You could fin d a plug that is a couple of thousandths LARGER than the in s i d e d i a m eter of the pipe (.76-.78 .)
W ith a torch, heat the end of the pipe up RED HOT. This will do 2 things, melt out all the residual lead and more im portantly
EXPAND the pipe to a round th e s a m e s i z e a s t h e p l u g y o u h o p e f u l l y w e r e a b l e t o o b t a i n . W h e n t h e p i p e i s a t i t s ho t t e s t ,
pound the plug in to the pipe as far as it will go while continuing to apply heat. When the plug is flush or will travel no more,
remove the heat. The pipe will contract around the plug giving a very effective friction fit, which can then be bolstere d with a
good, solid weld around it.
Bert March 26th, 2004, 12:40 AM

weld ing was done wih a 20 ton hydraulic hand-press and an arc-welder at the garage I used to work at.
If you have access to their tools, look for a 3/4 " or larger tap, and a bolt that
will m ake a better breech plug.
A cast lead p lug- "You gonna die, boy!" Your cannon will turn recoilless rifle on you and fire TWO projectiles. One towards you,
and one towards the target.

I n d e e d b e r t . . . h o w e v e r I m a k e it a point to NEVER stand directly behind m y cannon due to several unfortunate accidents I have
read about. Im always well off to the side, out of the way incase it does suddenly go recoilless.
I m ay just use the 20 ton press to force a 4" rod m achined to several thousanths larger than 3/4 in. into the end. I'll reinforce
it with a heavy weld and a threaded cap to hide the unsightly m e s s m y poor welding skills are sure to leave ! :p
The tiny am ount of lead left in the barrel m ay also act as a sort of "glue" to increase the strength of the friction
joint...hopefully. I just hope it wont act like a lube...The y added lead to old gasolines for that very property. If it does i'll just
have to rebore to clear out any traces of lead. I dont have the specific tools m ade for that, so i'll h ave to use a 3/4 in. bit on
the drill press. I hope it doesnt destroy the bit though, those bitches are expensive!
Sparky March 26th, 2004, 06:48 PM

This idea is very easy and sim ple, and I think it would work well. I'm o n l y s u p r i s e d i t h a s n ' t b e e n m e n t i o n e d y e t .
The expanding the barrel then putting a rod up in there sounds like pretty good but I wou ldn't want to trust a friction fit alon e.
Instead, a good mechanical lock would be better. Just put a tigh t fitting rod into the end of the pip e and then drill a h o l e
through the entire thing and put a big pin in sideways. If you could get som e solder to flow in and fill any g aps all the better.
Here, I even made a diagram:
http://www.pigscanfly.ca/pyropage/GunPlug.gif
You could even put the pin in, fill the end with lead, and let the lead flow around the pin.
The only problem I can see is if the barrel is difficult to drill through because it is especially hard or som ething. File a flat spot
to start the drilling of course, so the bit doesn't slip all over (assuming you're using a hand drill).

I just hope it wont act like a lube...They added lead to old gasolines for that very property.
L e a d i s a d d e d to brass that is to be machined because it DO ES act as a lube. I've seen old fashioned pillow bearings m a d e o u t
of lead block s too. The old ga s had tetraethyl lead added as an anti-knock (prevented diesel type pre-ignition in high
compresion engines) not as a lube.
A 3/4" pipe thread tap shouldn't be too tough to find. Try just going to a hardware store that cuts and threads pipe, ask them
to do it for you on their machine. Hell, they'll even have threade d Iron plugs you can use "as is" in the plum bing se ction, you'll
only need to get the tube tapped...

OK...Heres what im g o n n a d o : T a k i n g t h e b e s t f r o m a l l s u g g e s t i o n s .
I'll go down to the local HW store and get the inside 4" tapped with a nice deep thread. I'll then get a 3/4" rod threaded the
s a m e. After that, liberally apply som e heat-resistant epoxy to the barrel threads and screw in my plug. Ill drill 2x1/4 inch
hole s, 1 inch from the bottom and 2 inches apart, insert som e steel dowels, and weld them into place. I'll then put a heavy
weld on the end of the barrel, thread the outside, and put on a steel pipe cap. A light weld on the endcap and i'm all
set...whew!
Thanks for the help all!

U m , do you wear m ore than one set of suspenders along with your belt?
I've worked on a num ber of m uzzle loaders up to .75 cal. rifled and 10 b o r e s h o t g u n . A t h r e a d e d b r e e c h ( i n t e n d e d t o b e
removable!) is pretty standard...
W hat you're talking a bout is a bit overkill, perh aps!

Overkill? Most Definitely!
Still...Better safe then sorry. I probably wont weld the endcap, as that would not d o m uch anyways. I do not intend to remove
the breech plug, so the fact that it's co mpletely solid wo nt affect me.
Dont know what the h eck you're talkin' about with the suspenders comm ent, but whatever.
simply RED March 27th, 2004, 05:43 AM

Railgun and BP cannon are extremely different "weapons".
Railgun fires with electric im pulse while the cannon - with black p owder.
Bigfoot March 31st, 2004, 11:26 AM

Cyclo,
About that threading...
Is your pipe cast iron or steel? Pipe threads are m eant for cast iron pipe, they're fairly coa rse because cast iron's sh ear
strength is lower--fine threads would break off. For steel, fine threads actually produce a stronger joint. Coarse pipe threads will
work, though , you just won't get maximum stre ngth.
A l s o , h a v i n g 4 i n c h e s t a p p e d i s g o n n a b e h a r d a t t h e H W store. Unless they have a special threader or a la the, the only way
they'll be able to thre a d p i p e i s o u t s i d e t h r e a d s , a n d t a p e r e d . I f o u n d o u t m y s e l f a f t e r I r e a d " H o m e m a d e G u n s a n d
H o m e m a d e A m mo", which will probably be on the FTP when it goes live.
Be safe!
Cyclo_Knight March 31st, 2004, 11:46 AM

I m ight only need 2 inches, and thankyou for your info on the threads. Y ou m ay have just saved my vital organs from
premature ejection! :p
I talked to the guy at the Hom e d e p o t , a n d h e g a v e m e the name of a place that could do it. I was planning on going down
there next week, but now I can avoid the hour drive out there. This steel is very hard and quite high-grade.
W ith the dowels included I doubt there is any d anger of m y plug blasting off, as it would be stronger than the rest of the pip e!
Harpoon March 31st, 2004, 12:23 PM

How is your cannon ignited and how is the ignition syste m fixed to the ca n n o n ?
I'm very tem pted to build a sim ilar cannon, only scaled down, but am wondering what type of material I should build it out o f.
I M O c a s t i r o n h a s m o re of a tendency to shatter than steel, due to it being more brittle. Shattering is a bad idea, should I wish
to stand anywhere ne ar to the weapon.
E D I T - T h a n k s A n t h o n y , s e v e r a l h u n d r e d t h o u s a n d P S I s o u n d s e x c e s s i v e , but will give me a better error m argin if I cock up

with the prop ellent :p
I'll do som e r e a d i n g a b o u t t h e p r e s s u r e s d e v e l o p e d i n f i r e a r m s b e f o r e I e m b a r k o n t h i s p roject.
Anthony March 31st, 2004, 12:58 PM

Steel, drawn (seam less) hydaulic tubin g should cope. Rated pressure is often around 50 000 psi for small sizes, tested burst
p r e s s u r e s o f t e n r e a c h s e v e r a l h u n d r e d t h o u s a n d psi.
Sm all sizes (inch or sm aller) are pretty cheap too. If you're in th e UK, R S Com ponents sell it.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > How would you...
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maggie March 24th, 2004, 10:23 PM

For a project I have to raise an egg on e m eter then lower it one meter using any mechanical m eans. (creativity is good) I was
thinking of using a high voltage lifter like the o ne showed in http://am ericanantigravity.com / i n d e x . s h t m l.
A n y o n e h a v e any other creative suggestions?
Thanks for your tim e
If you have the tim e check this out too: very cool http://www.digitaltoxicity.net/ot/monkey.wm v

Yeah...wrap the egg in tinfoil, and use a sm all AP charge to blow the egg into the air.;) Have it land on a supercond ucting
m agnet cooled with liquid helium . The foil wrapped egg will be repelled by the field and not break.
Guarentee you teach' will have never seen that before :rolleyes:
nbk2000 March 25th, 2004, 01:01 AM

Post a homework assignment here and ask others to do it for you. :)
OR
Creating new topics with incom plete topic titles. :mad: I hate that. :p
W atercooler or not, I don't tolerate lazy fucktards cluttering up m y forum with their brain d roppings!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > a few quick issues
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jackhammer March 24th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Just a few questions for anyone with some spare time and more chemistry knowledge than I.
1. In the tylenol prep. of picric acid (as layed out by our noble benefactor megalomania), what would happen if you didn't use acetone or alcohol to remove contaminants in
the aspirin?
2. HMTD apparently won't detonate from heat (I understand it only burns), but I would guess that the pressure from burning confined black powder or nitrocellulose would be
sufficient to do the job. Am I correct?
3. HMTD and Acetone peroxide both belong to a group of explosives that interests me. I thought that the triple nitrogen bond was the key in all high explosives, but this family
is different. I don't want anyone wasting their time explaining the ins and outs of peroxides, but unfortunately my modem is extremely slow and I have limited access to it and
to faster public modems (busy life), so I was wondering if anyone had offhand any links I could check out. Once again, thanks for all the help.
Skean Dhu March 25th, 2004, 12:16 AM

Well If you try to make TNP from tylenol your going to be greatly dissapointed on two fronts: 1) tylenol contains acetominophen(sp?) and won't become through this synthesis
TNP since it lacks the phenol derivative Acetylsalilcyclic acid which you are trying to nitrate in the first place. So you'd have to work out your own way to nitrate the
acetominophen. 2) you wasted your precious 70% HNO3 of H2SO4/X-NO3
also HMTD will detonate from flame, you either confine it or add more of it, lacking hexamine I can't give you any personal experience.
nbk2000 March 25th, 2004, 01:58 AM

Mistaking Tylenol for Aspirin? :rolleyes:
jackhammer March 25th, 2004, 11:11 AM

Mistaking Tylenol for Aspirin?
Actually, in the my own defense, I only put tylenol in the first sentence. I put aspirin in the last.
nbk2000 March 25th, 2004, 01:25 PM

The sentence implied that they are one and the same, when they are not.

I don't want anyone wasting their time explaining the ins and outs of peroxides, but unfortunately my modem is extremely slow and I have limited access to it and to faster
public modems (busy life), so I was wondering if anyone had offhand any links I could check out. Once again, thanks for all the help.
This is a politely worded request for spoon feeding. Sorry, UTFSB. If you're too busy to do the research, you surely don't have the time to spend in the ER (or morgue!) after
your lack of knowledge or understanding bites you in the ass. What you wanted to know (and the links to much, much more information) is right here if you take the time and
are reasonably intelligent.
jackhammer March 26th, 2004, 01:54 PM

I read that all of the following have a tendence to form into explosive peroxides or autopolymerize
List A
Form potentially explosive
peroxides without
concentrationa . Dispose or
test 3 months after opening.

List B
Form potentially explosive
peroxides on concentrationb
Dispose or test 12 months
after opening.
List C
Autopolymerize as a result
of peroxide accumulation.
Dispose or test inhibited
materials after 12 months.
Butadienec
Chloroprened
Divinyl acetylene
Chloroprene
Tetrafluoroethylenec
Vinylidene chloride
Methacrylate
Tetrafluoroethylene
Acetal
Acetaldehyde
Benzyl alcohol
Isopropyl ether
Cyclohexanol
2-cyclohexen-1-ol
Cumene
Decahydronaphthalene
Diacetylene
Dicyclopentadiene
Diethyl ether
Diethylene glycol
Dimethyl ether
Dioxanes
Ethylene glycol dimethyl ether
4-heptanol
Methyl acetylene
Methyl isobutyl ketone
3-methyl-1 butanol
Methyl cyclopentane
2-pentanol
4-penten-1-ol
1-phenylethanol
2-phenylethanol
2-propanol (isoproranol, IPA)
Tetrahydrofuran
Tetrahydronaphthalene
Vinyl ethers
Other secondary alcohols

Acrylic acid
Acrylonitrile
Butadienee
2-butanol
Chlorotrifluoroethylene
Methyl
Stryene
Vinyl acetate
Vinyl acetylene
Vinyl chloride
Vinyl pyridine
I know from experience and from reading that most high explosives form from nitration of chemicals. These instead form a triple bond with oxygen, if I understand rightly, as
opposed to nitrogen. AP has 3 sets of O2 molecules, HMTD has the triple O bond, others seem to have a double O bond. Alright, so these chemicals can by peroxidized the
same way others can be nitrated, even styrene. Does that mean there is a process that can turn all the items on this list in to a type of explosive? So in some way can
hydrogen peroxide fill the shoes of nitric acid, only for less powerful and much more unstable explosives?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > testing KNO3
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is there a way to find out if i have KNO3, i found some stuff in a gardning section of my mates garage and i was wondering if it is KNO3,
is there a way of finding out it is?
Dave Angel March 26th, 2004, 01:36 AM

I know it may seem weird but apparantly, it tastes a lot like rhubarb (don't ask me why). Of course, if you don't know what that tastes like then I guess you are stuck! The
whole toxicity thing is overrated, taste testing of chemicals is perfectly safe, in most cases.
Then again... you could always try the utfse test, but some people find that to be too much effort for such trivial things.
EP March 26th, 2004, 03:40 AM

Mix it with sugar in a roughly 50/50 mix, if it burns, it's probably KNO3.

See if it lends a lilac colour to the blue flame of a burner. If so, it's a K salt. If you have any conc. sulfuric acid, add a little bit of the salt to about 1.5 ml of sulfuric acid.
Evolution of some pungent brown fumes indicates the probable presence of a nitrate.
Alternatively, sprinkle some of the salt on a piece of paper, and heat it from underneath. If it's potassium nitrate, it'll soon catch fire, and travel over the paper as a molten ball,
incinerating the paper as it travels.
metafractal March 26th, 2004, 06:57 AM

Dont trust the flame test for K salts. If it was found in the "gardening section" it will be impure, and even trace impurities of Na+ will turn the flame from lilac to bright yellow.
Boomer March 26th, 2004, 09:05 AM

The sugar test or the sulphuric acid test will show if it is a nitrate at all, or urea etc.
Melting point will show if it is NH4- or Na/K- NO3.
Solubility in hot/cold water will show whether Na- or K- NO3.
Simple! :)
fire vs. water March 28th, 2004, 11:08 AM

does anyone know how to test it for impurities?
my KNO3 leaves a lot of black shit after its burned with sugar, it creates stuff that looks like lava, and then it expands a lot and becomes black...
is this how it's supposed to act??
atlas#11 March 28th, 2004, 11:44 AM

Add some more nitrate, sounds like you have too much sugar in their.
Add a chlorine donor so you can clearly see what color it burns at. if it's purple then it's KNO3 plain and simple, fertilizers supply nitrogen or phosphorus and it is not going to be
KClO3 as that dosen't supply anything the plant needs. If it's pure enough to make a noticible purple flame then it is probably pure enough to be used in nitrations and what
not. See if you can find any patent numbers or product numbers on the bag. You would be suprised of the chemical information avalible about most products these days.
Search and you shall find.
Mr Cool March 28th, 2004, 11:48 AM

What you have described could be evidence of impurity, OR very poor mixing, very poor ratios, and/or components that are nowhere near fine enough.
tmp March 28th, 2004, 02:33 PM

The last bag of KNO3 fertilizer I bought had N-P-K rating: 13.5 - 0 - 45
This is pretty close to the numbers I got calculating based on atomic weights.
By this calculation pure KNO3 would be 13.8 - 0 - 46.5. Remember that K is
represented by available potash(K2O). Also KNO3 has a cool and bitter taste
to it. Just be sure to spit it out after tasting unless you're into temporary
impotence ! :)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Light in the water
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Melvin March 26th, 2004, 10:34 AM

It's very simple to do.I want to tell you first what is the resault of this reaction- you'll see pink-red light in the test-tube.
So first make 10ml concentrated solution of NaOH in one test-tube and in another test-tube put the same amount of 30% H2O2.Cool the test-tubes to arrownd 0
degrees.During you wait the solutions to cool make a chlorine in chlorine generator which has a burner.When the NaOH and H2O2 are cooled enough mix them and pit the
burner of the chlorine genrator in the tube(where you have mixed H2O2 an NaOH).When the chlorine gas starts to bubble in the mixture you'll see the light.
If work precisly you want fell the smell of the chlorine.I want to tell you that the proportions I have given here are not exact nevertheless there is reaction.The equation is:
2NaOH + H2O2 + Cl2 -> 2NaCl + 2H2O + O2 + hv
Tell me if you like it ;)

P.S. Sorry if there are some mistakes in my english!
mongo blongo March 27th, 2004, 05:51 PM

You are describing chemiluminesence (sp?) which is kinda cool. BUT
1.This is an Explosives & Weapons forum.
2.This happens to be the Pyrotechnics section.
3.Your first post is a new topic.
Shall I go on? :rolleyes:
Did you even read the rules? :rolleyes:
nbk2000 March 27th, 2004, 06:53 PM

Sorry about that fellas. :o
It was que'd for approval, and it looked OK, so I approved it.
Unfortunately, the approval que doesn't say what section something goes in when it's approved, nor if it's even a new topic or just a reply. :(
I'm flying blind! :eek:
;)
Moving to the water cooler.
Marvin April 2nd, 2004, 04:05 AM

Who are you and what have you done with the real nbk2000?
Bert April 2nd, 2004, 04:36 AM

Who are you and what have you done with the real nbk2000?
The empirical evidence points to an endorphin saturation situation. This coupled with the musings on raising a crop of ruthless little Apaches leads me to suspect the presence of
a steady girlfriend...
Marvin April 2nd, 2004, 03:03 PM

I see what you are saying. Nbk has been kidnapped by his girlfriend, and replaced by a goverment controlled clone.
kingspaz April 2nd, 2004, 07:01 PM

shit! you're right guys!
i better ban nbk2000 so the feds can't get access :D
vulture April 7th, 2004, 06:00 PM

Not to mention he just made a bad translation of the procedure I posted at my dutch chemistry board... :mad:
Jacks Complete April 7th, 2004, 07:29 PM

Hey, leave him alone!
At least he tried!
(unless he ripped off Vultures site, in which case, away he should go!)
((Perhaps not if he copied it into English himself?))

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Giving up your DNA ?
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http://abcnews.go.com /sections/wnt/US/testing _tickets_040323.html
Teens can go in the running to win con cert tickets by having an HIV / AIDs test.
I don't know what this is about, but a cynic on another board m a d e a c o m m ent about it being the government's way of getting
the DNA of thousands of teens on the records before they know it.
Apparently it's been done before throu gh flu vaccinations.
Sorry if this has been posted, I haven't had tim e to check in recently. Thought it m i g h t b e a h e a d s u p f o r a nyone who didn't
know what could be going on.

W hat intrests m e is that they are testing for HIV/AIDS using a saliva swab. From what I know abou t HIV/AIDS you would have
to drink litres and litres of saliva from an infected perso n before you have any chance of getting HIV/AIDS.
Bloo d and other body fluids it much more likely. Norm a l l y t h e y t a k e a b l o d s a m p l e a n d s e e if any HIV/AIDS anti-bodies
appear.
I would be very cautious about that test, but since the artists in the rock concert are crap I wouldn't bother anyway.

You can't ever get HIV or AIDS from saliva. Hum an saliva is one of the few things that kills HIV and AIDS. I would be VERY
suspicious of a test that uses saliva, though it isn't impossible that there could be som e kind of re sidue indicitave of HIV in
ones saliva.
EDIT: http://www.thebody.com /sowadsky/saliva . h t m l T h i s s e e m s to be a reasonble explanation of how a saliva test would

work, but it still doesn't rule out the possibility that the gov is trying to get our DNA, even if the test is legit.
Desmikes March 28th, 2004, 12:16 AM

All b ody parts that are made for direct contact with the outside world are protected with substance that tears up RNA based shit
like HIV and all viruses, this is why it is "safe" to dum p infected blood on uncut skin. I wish I knew English term inology to
explain it better...

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Do you get the subliminal
m essage?
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Efraim_barkbit March 28th, 2004, 03:52 PM

http://starterupsteve.servepics.com /swf/subliminal.htm l
Its quite hard to hear the last one, so you might have to turn up the volume a bit.
CyclonitePyro March 30th, 2004, 12:16 AM

I d o n ' t t h i n k t h e s u b l i m i n a l m e s s a g e t o l d m e t o p i s s o n m yself.
Syanide March 30th, 2004, 04:09 PM

W ow.
good one. kinda expected it though

Y i k e s......I *didn't* see that com ing....
I fully agree with the piss on myself part.....jesus.
The A narch March 31st, 2004, 08:15 PM

Y e a h , m y friend got me with that a while back. There are a lot of flash documents like it b ut that's by far the worst one. Even if
you expect it it still scares the living shit out of you.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Microwave Concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide Lab
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YayItGoBoom! March 28th, 2004, 09:21 PM

I decided to come up with my lab (this is my first one whoopdie do) to see just what people such as I, who are lacking in certain precursors, could make do with the
chemicals that they have. There is not much in the way of procedure for concentrating H2O2. The first batch of AP I tried failed miserably, using Megalomaniacs recipe,
replacing 30 mL 30% H2O2 with 300 mL 3%. The acetone was K lean Strip and the acid was 6M HCl. There was almost no yield after three days. I dont have any other
H2O2 available, and 3% is pretty cheap, so I wanted to find out what I could do to make the reaction yield more.
Procedure:
Place 400 mL (300 mL would be the correct moles, but I wanted to take into account some H2O2 would be lost through microwave) in a Pyrex beaker. Microwave in 2 minute
intervals until the solution is 50 mL. Let this cool to 3 C.
Cool 50 mL acetone in glass vessel (I used a Mason jar), and add the cooled H202. Stir and place in ice bath. Add X mL of 36% HCl (I am not sure how much is sufficient, I
used 8 mL to be generous) drop by drop, while stirring. Let the solution sit in the ice bath for 24 hours.
I set this up about four hours ago, and the jar has a good amount of precipitate, some on the bottom, the rest is forming a crystal skin on the top of the precipitate. This
surprised me because I expected a lot of the H2O2 to boil away. Its not overflowing with AP by any means, but its certainly a nice first yield.
I also have a question about the skin of crystals forming on the surface of the solution. This is my first batch, and I dont want it to be an infamous one. I have heard
stories and seen videos of AP being very stress tolerant as far as primaries go, but I am still concerned for good reason. Would it be alright to swirl the jar just to get the
crystals to break up enough to fit through the jar (the neck tapers slightly)? It is a noobish question I know, I am just concerned about my fingers.
I put this in the water cooler because its just kind of a half-assed lab, and I'm semi-new and don't need the flaming. If it does find interest, it would be appreciated if a mod
moved it to the Other Explosives board.

My last batch had such a high yield AP mushroomed out of the beaker. You can do pretty much whatever you want with AP so long as its even a little wet. I never though of
useing a microwave to concentrate chems...

Does anyone remember the chemical test to determine the concentration of hydrogen peroxide? I think you react it with potassium permanganate to release the oxygen or
something... I quite forget. Anyway a certain quantity of H2O2 will react with a known amount of the reactant and you can determine how much H2O2 you have.
Hmm, yes, you titrate the H2O2 (acidified I believe) with potassium permanganate solution. You would do this with the original volume of 4% (400 mL) and then titrate
afterwards (50 mL) and see how much H2O2 you lose. No indicators needed either, the permanganate will color the soln when the endpoint is reached. All one needs is an
accurate way to weigh the KMnO4.
EDIT: here we go...visit http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Class/che133/lectures/calc035.html or read what I have reproduced below.
1. Standardization of Potassium Permanganate, KMnO4

1.1 Preliminaries
Potassium permangante is standardized by its reaction with sodium oxalate, Na2C2O4

The stoichiometric relationship between them would be given by the overall equation:
5 Na2C2O4 + 2 KMnO4 + 8 H2SO4 = 2 MnSO4 + K2SO4 + 5 Na2SO4 + 10 CO2+ 8 H2O
As usual, considering only the net ionic equation for this reaction simplifies it considerably.
5 C2O42- + 2 MnO4- + 16 H+ = 2 Mn+2 + 10 CO2+ 8 H2O
We see that 2 moles of permanganate ion, MnO4- react with 5 moles of oxalate ion, C2O42-
Therefore, 1 mole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 moles of oxalate ion, or
1 mmole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 mmoles of oxalate ion, and
1 mmole of oxalate ion reacts with 2/5 = 0.4000 mmoles of permanganate
[Keep in mind that the coefficients 5, 2, 16, 10 and 8 in the chemical equation are integers and have, basically, an infinite number of significant figures.]
The nominal concentration of the potassium permanganate solution is 0.025 M (The objective of the standardization is to find the exact value of this concentration.)
We wish to use about 30 mL of this solution in a titration in order to use the buret to its maximum precision.
30 mL of the solution will contain 30 mL X 0.025 mmoles / mL = 0.75 mmoles

Recalling that
1 mmole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 mmoles of oxalate ion
0.75 mmole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 X 0.75 mmoles of oxalate ion = 1.9mmoles
The molar mass of sodium oxalate is 134.0 Therefore, 1.9mmoles of sodium oxalate will weigh 1.9 mmole X 134 mg / mmole = 250 mg
In order to consume 30 mL of 0.025 M potassium permanganate, we will need approximately 250 mg of sodium oxalate.
Having established this, the standardization procedure will require us to weigh out samples of sodium oxalate weighing approximately 250 mg.
1.2 Calculations for the standardization
Suppose we actually weigh out a sample of sodium oxalate weighing 224.7 mg and that it requires 31.73 mL of a potassium permanganate solution that we wish to
standardize. What concentration do we calculate for the potassium permanganate solution?
The sample of sodium oxalate contains 224.7 mg / (134.0 mg / mmole) = 1.677 mmole
Recalling that
1 mmole of oxalate ion reacts with 2/5 = 0.400 mmoles of permanganate
1.677 mmole of oxalate ion reacts with 2/5 X 1.677= 0.6707 mmoles of permanganate
That number of mmoles of permanganate ( 0.6707 mmoles ) were contained in a sample of a solution whose volume was 31.73 mL
Therefore, the concentration of the permanganate is 0.6707 mmoles / 31.73 mL = 0.02114 M
2.0 Titration of hydrogen peroxide

2.1 Preliminaries
The equation for the reaction between potassium permanganate and hydrogen peroxide is similar to that with sodium oxalate.
5 H2O2 + 2 KMnO4 + 3 H2SO4 = 2 MnSO4 + K2SO4 + 5 O2+ 8 H2O
Again, the net ionic equation is simpler,

5 H2O2 + 2 MnO4- + 6 H+ = 2 Mn+2 + 5 O2+ 8 H2O
We see that 2 moles of permanganate ion, MnO4- react with 5 moles of hydrogen peroxide, H2O2
Therefore, 1 mole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 moles of hydrogen peroxide, or
1 mmole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 mmoles of hydrogen peroxide, and
1 mmole of hydrogen peroxide reacts with 2/5 = 0.4000 mmoles of permanganate
2.2 Dilution of the Hydrogen Peroxide (See also the Web pages dealing with dilution.)
Most commercial hydrogen peroxide is sold at a concentration of 3% by weight (i.e., 30 g of H2O2 in 1000 g of solution). Assuming a density of near 1 g / mL, this would
correspond to about 30 g / (34 g / mol ) = 0.88 mole per liter, or 0.88 M.
A 25 mL sample of this hydrogen peroxide solution would contain 25 X .88 = 22 mmoles of hydrogen peroxide and would require 8.8 mmoles of potassium permanganate. At a
concentration of 0.025, such as we use in this exercise, this would consume 350 mL of the permanganate reagent - i.e., seven 50 mL burets full.
For that reason, we dilute the hydrogen peroxide for purposes of the titration. We must perform this dilution with precision so as to be able to convert the result on the dilute
solution back to the original commercial hydrogen peroxide.
We choose a dilution by a factor of 1 / 10.00. This is accomplished by diluting a 25 mL sample of the commercial material to 250.0 mL in a volumetric flask. The original
solution will have a concentration exactly 10.00 times as large as the concentration we determine from the titration.
2.2. Determination of the concentration of the diluted solution of hydrogen peroxide
The sample we titrate is a 25.00 mL sample of the diluted hydrogen peroxide delivered using a transfer pipet.
Suppose the 25.00 mL sample requires 28.64 mL of the potassium permanganate that we standardized in Section 1.2 which has a concentration of 0.02114 M.
28.64 mL of 0.02114 M potassium permanganate contains 28.64 mL X 0.02114 mmole / mL = 0.6054 mmoles of potassium permanganate
1 mmole of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 = 2.500 mmoles of hydrogen peroxide
0.6064 mmoles of permanganate ion reacts with 5/2 X 0.6054 = 1.514 mmoles of hydrogen peroxde
This number of mmoles was contained in 25.00 mL of diluted hydrogen peroxide.
Therefore the concentration of the diluted hydrogen peroxide was 1.514 mmoles / 25.00 mL = 0.06054 mmoles / mL
2.3. Determination of the concentration of the original, commercial solution of hydrogen peroxide
The concentration of the original hydrogen peroxide is 10.00 times as large as what we have just found.
Therefore, the concentration of the original hydrogen peroxide solution is 10.00 X 0.06054 = 0.6054 M
2.4. Determination of the percent by weight of the original, commercial solution of hydrogen peroxide
HOWEVER, the exercise requires reporting the hydrogen peroxide concentration not as molarity, but, as percent by weight.
To perform this conversion, we need to know the density of the hydrogen peroxide. We are told to assume that the density of dilute solutions of hydrogen peroxide are the
same as that of pure water (1.000 g/mL at room temperature).
Our solution has a concentration of 0.6054 M. Therefore, 1.000 liter of the solution will contain 0.6054 moles of hydrogen peroxide.
0.6054 moles of hydrogen peroxide weighs 0.6054 moles X 34.02 g / mole = 20.60 g
From the density, 1.000 L = 1000. mL of the solution weighs 1.000 g / mL X 1000. mL = 1000. g.
The weight percent of hydrogen peroxide in the original commercial solution is 20.60 / 1000. = 2.060 %

Interesting, thanks for the link Mega. I will have to read that once I am done cramming in 4 AP chem chapters by the end of the quarter this Friday. I would also love to test
how well concentrating with heat works, as soon as I can get some permanganate.
Anyways, microwaving is kind of an interesting way of purification. I like it better than boiling on the stove because a) you don't get the maternal "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU
DOING WITH YOUR SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS ON MY COOKTOP!" b) you can use glass instead of metal with microwave, metal....ugh it just inerferes with everything. Plus with
glass I can monitor just how much solvent is left.
The batch is progressing nicely, about half of the 100 mL is filled with crystals. I would take a stab and say 20-30 g. Later this week, probably Thursday, I'm going to add 300
mL of water to wash and then filter, dry, and test by Saturday.

I've used the microwave before to concentrate solutions like CuCl2 and SrCl2, but the process with hydrogren peroxide is new to me. I'd guessed that the peroxide bonds
would start breaking up in the presence of high-energy radiations... However, if it works, I'd love to try that, too!
A slightly simplified method that I'd use to find the volume strength of H2O2 would be to directly react a known volume of H2O2 solution with MnO2 and measure the volume
of oxygen gas liberated by the downward displacement of water in a graduated cylinder. At STP, vol. of gas liberated divided by volume of solution taken= volume strength of
the solution.
To calculate strength in w/w:
v=volume of O2
T=absolute temperature
P=atmospheric pressure
mass of solution taken=m
Therefore no. of moles of O2 = P*V/(R*T) ( = n)

Therefore no. of moles of H2O2= 2*n
Therfore w/w strength of H2O2 solution = (2*n*34)/m
atlas#11 March 30th, 2004, 04:56 PM

I usualy just use the stove on a low setting to minimise decomp., it is effective but it takes about 4 hr. for a quart to get down to around 1/10 volume, but I usualy only go
down to about an eighth of original volume to avoid runaways with my HMTD. I never thought of using a microwave either, You say you got a decient yeild? I would think that
the radiation would cause more decomposition than just heating it but if it's all ya got then use it.
I vowed never to make AP again as long as I live. Of course in a life or death situation I wouldn't hesitate but for recreational purposes HMTD is as unstable as I'm going to get.
I know it's not much better than AP but it's more stable and that's enough for me. Next time I get some nitrate I'll whip up some TNP and make potassium picrate or DDNP or
anything more stable than peroxides. Their just too damn unstable for me.
Yea, its 100 mL of solution, and when shook up, it has about the consistency of pea soup. I got a rather comical idea earlier thinking about it, have you ever heard of Farina?
Its this nasty cream of wheat gunk that old people eat, its thick white goupy stuff. It reminded me of that, and I laughed to myself at the idea of breakfast blowing up in
someone's face and blasting them with that gunk.
I wouldn't use the microwave for larger batches because of just that, I believe a lot of H2O2 is lost in the process, and its much better to buy higher concentrations of it.
While we're having such a jolly exchange, does anyone know if NaOH could be used as a catalyst instead of an acid? I've heard of one reaction to form H2O2 is Na2O2 + 2H20
-> NaOH + H2O2. If lye works, you could whip up batches of AP like its nobody's business, that is if you could get your hands on sodium peroxide.
Marvin April 1st, 2004, 09:41 PM

Neither hydrogen peroxide or acetone are compatable with strong alkali.
SimplisticNick December 14th, 2004, 12:31 PM

Concentrating Hydrogen Peroxide with a microwave truly does confuse my logical thinking..
I'm not a chemist, but I know H2O2 is a strong oxidizer. When the microwaves strike the H2O2 molecules, isn't that enough power to break off one O atom leaving useless
H2O?

I'm sure that happens to a significant amount of the H2O2, but I tried YayItGoBoom's microwave method and it worked very well. Using a whole pint of 3% H2O2 I could only
get maybe a gram or two of AP, while only a cup concentrated in the microwave got me upwards of 20 grams. For those confined to using 3% H2O2, the microwave is the
way to go.
SimplisticNick December 14th, 2004, 08:13 PM

Will do - Ill try this tonight!
My first synth. of AP gave off very little yeilds, although I tried with 2,000 mL of 3% H2O2.

YayItGoBoom, the "skin" of AP on top means that there's some excess acetone in your synth (nothing to worry about, most procedures cause this) which is dissolving a small
amount of the AP. As the acetone evaporates from the top of the mixture, a "skin" of recrystallized AP is formed.
So long as it's still wet, you can gently break it up with a thermometer or other blunt object, if it's thick enough to be out of the water then wait until all the AP has formed,
then pour in enough water to cover the AP before gently breaking it up.
FUTI December 15th, 2004, 01:05 PM

H2O2 decompose exposed to heat. Microwave isn't same as hotplate but it is only heating through radiation...this could change the process to some point but as writen above
H2O2 still decompose but apparently to a smaller extent (but IIRC it does decompose slower in dilute solutions anyway).
So I have a question does anyone know is this concentrating process result of microwave or not? In other words can we use hotplate of magnetic stirrer instead? If it is
microwave that are crucial for a process (which I can believe) what is the explanation for it doesn't degrade H2O2 thermaly (maybe H2O different dipole moment or
something?)?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > More Stab le AP? No Way!
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tacmatricx March 30th, 2004, 06:30 PM

Mde a batch of AP about four m onths ago, Standard procedure with crappy 3% H2O2... Not a great Yield, The difference to a ll
the other m ethods however was that we icebathed it with salted ice to m ix and then we stored it overnight at 1 deg C... The
n e x t m orning we had the stan dard top cake and lower precipitate but this stuff was almost insoluble in water? (sm a l l a m o u n t o f
Ice appeared at the top as we l l 0 . 5 d e g C m a y b e e ? )
W e dried it in a dark container constantly changing the paper towels it was sitting on and when we were sure it was dry, we to o k
a 1 / 4 t e a s p o on and with earm uffs on struck it with a ham mer lig htly... and again and again progre ssivly ha rder until we heard
the loud report. the p ound would've drawn blood from a finger we had to hit it so hard! W e thought it was dead at first until it
went!
The same amount however would explode furiously on a toilet tissue with the slightest hin t of a fla me without blackening the
paper. It was four m o n t h s a g o a n d I s t i l l h a v e s o m e in a cool dry place stored in a film canister. It only seems to be affected
by sunlight o r ulraviolet light.
The canister we m ade it in had pencil tip sized xtals on the sides that would not dissolve even with repeated soakings in tap
water... I wouldn't dare scrape it! but h ow do I dissolve the bastard?!?! Acetone also has n o effect.
C o u l d b e a n ew m ethod for assuring no Di AP and only Tri AP is m a d e ?
I live in the caribbean with 80-90% hum idity if this would make a difference?
I W ould be Very interested in batches m ade in other clim ates!
Thanks.

I live in Canada, and let m y AP rxn run outside in sub zero tem p s . I g e t t h e s a m e t h i n g y o u d o ; s t a b l e a s h e l l , o n l y g o e s o f f
when I want it too. The only way I can get it to explode on shock is if I really pound the hell out of it with a hamm er on a ha rd
surface, ie anvil. And I have to hit it, n ot just around it. I use 33 % H 2 O 2 u n l i k e y o u , a n d h u m idity around here is pretty m uch
zero (hard to keep water in the air when the air is -33 C )
I don't know why som e peoples is kick-ass stable and others explodes if you look at it wrong. Don't worry about scraping it off
the glass, if its wet at all its fine. or take a red-hot stick to it.
Desmikes March 30th, 2004, 09:09 PM

Hang Man, NI3-NH3 and such would probably explode if you hit "around them". Unless you can swing at supersonic speed, why
would AP explode from indirect contact with the hamm e r ?
Does anyone have any solid data (multiple drop tests with various surfaces yielding consistent results) on whether or not it
m akes a significant d ifference if your AP is acid ic or is m ade up of large crystals, or if it has impurities such as sand or
additional oxidizers like KMnO 4, KNO3? I suppose it would be difficult to attribute effects of oxidizers to sensitizing/
desensitizing because you have particle sizes com ing in to play. It would also be useful to know how very acidic AP would
b e h a v e w h e n m ixed with things of this nature.

yea, I m a d e s o m e n o t t o o l o n g a g o ( b e f o r e t h e thaw) and its been happy living in an open-top container th a t u s e d t o h o l d
cooking herb s. Its easily 2 m o n t h s o l d a n d s h o ws now definative signs of sublim ation that som e of m y other batches have
shown.
tacmatricx March 31st, 2004, 09:52 AM

[ Q U O TE=Desmikes] Does anyone have any solid data (multiple drop tests with various surfaces yielding consistent results) on
whether or not it mak es a significant difference if your AP is acidic or is m ade up of large crystals, or if it ha s im purities such as
sand or additional oxidizers like KMnO4, KNO3?
I agree with the drop tests Desm ikes but the purpose of this post is the apparent stability of AP synthesized over hours at near
zero Deg C tem peratures, Dro p tests can vary dependin g on the crystal size, acidity, salt im purities etc.
T h e A P I m a d e w a s 1 / 4 s i z e o f a grain of salt and bright white in appearance. They were washed repeatedly with distilled water
and verified to be neutral with litm us p aper when still damp.
Other batche s of AP I m ade without extended cooling, sublimed more easily with a noticeable loss after a week in a n o p e n
container was much m ore unstable to storage tem perature with seem i n g l y r a n d o m d e t o n a tion under certain conditions.
This I believe is due to the creation of more Di-Acetone Peroxide instead of Tri-Acetone Peroxide m a k i n g b a t c h e s m o r e
unstable.
Exte n d e d c o o l i n g s e e m s to produce a stable product that can be easily stored m ore than six m onths without loosing even 30%
of your batch! Much m ore stable to shock and temperature (higher temperatures increase sublimation) without any loss of
VoD.
I would greatly appreciate more results of this m ethod and any data collected. I will begin building a drop rig to test AP
synthesis with varying cooling tem peratures and durations.
Results to follow
Boomer April 1st, 2004, 07:17 AM

I h a d n o l o s s d u e t o s u b l i m ation either, not even after one year at room temperature. Ma ybe only the dimeric form sublimes
that fast?
The only thing I noticed is a slightly larger crystal size a fter long storage, but dissolving in acetone and pouring in water gives
a product with the consistency of a new batch!
I m ix the batch at -20C and k eep it in the freezer at that temp for 48 ho urs. But I do NO T h a v e t o p o u n d T H A T h a r d ! A 1 / 2
p o u n d h a m m er on a steel anvil detonates it if dropped (from its own weight only) approx. 15-20 cm , this is 1/3 of what NG
needs. At least this sensitivity is quite constant with batches and a g e .
tacmatricx April 1st, 2004, 07:25 PM

H e y B o o m e r , L o v e t h e R e n e w t h e b a t c h m e t h o d , I t s a l m ost a fountain of life for AP :) To get m y b atch to go off I really do
have to smack it, It could be the 90% humidity down here.
Q u e s t i o n . . . W h e n I m a k e m y batches at near zero deg C I notice ice form ing at the top... At -20 for 48 hours does your whole
m ix freeze? I always figured that would slow the reaction to a ha lt and keeping it at near zero would just slow it down enough
to m ake sure the trim er is all that form s ?
I a m heading down to the lab this weekend (Wife Permitting) :p to m a k e u p s o m e m ore and hopefully get a few detailed pics
o f t h e c r e a t i o n p r o c e s s a n d s o m e v i d s o f m e s m acking it with a ham mer (SMALL am ounts! as always but th is tim e T H I C K
EARMU F F S I d o n ' t i n t e n d o n g o i n g d e a f a g a i n ) T h a n k s f o r t h e H e l p !
Hang-Man April 1st, 2004, 08:13 PM

W h e n I m a k e m y b a t c h e s a t n e a r z e r o d e g C I n o t i c e i c e f o r m ing at the top... At -20 for 48 hours does your whole m i x f r e e z e ?
I let m y batches run for about 5 hrs, not 48. Depending on the container, acid, and time, I sometim es end up with a frozen
slurry of AP, its like a cake. tu rns back into slurry with a little water though.
I chill all m y reactants before use, and I get AP form ing in between 30-60 second s, so the cold dosn't seem slow the reaction
down. I do dum p all 50 ml of fum eing HCl in at once though.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > aeroponics or aero -hydroponics
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phyrelord March 30th, 2004, 10:20 PM

I s t u m b l e d o n this the other day when looking for soil a lternatives does anyone have any experience with hydroponics
especially ae roponics or aero-hydroponics. From my best guess the plants roots are m iste d with a m ineral rich solution and as
it passes through the air it collects oxygen and helps the plant metabolize the solution. The problem i'm having is how to
m ake one or and what nutrients i can use for the water solution any help is appre ciated.

You can check all that shit out over here. Be warned! Th is is a site about growing MJ. I have a feeling this might get m e in
s o m e hot water, but it is the inform a t i o n y o u s e e k . T h e f o r u m s are quite good for inform ation.
They are not as well m oderated over there so there is m ore garbage to wade through, but the search feature works just as well
there as it does here. :D
http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/t104

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Making the Ultimate Suit of
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Toptomcat April 1st, 2004, 10:04 AM

O n e t h e m e t h a t i s c o n s i s t a n t l y r e p e a t e d o n t h e W e b s i t e s o f m any body-arm or is that no vest or suit is 100% bulletproof. Let's
participate in a little thought expirim ent to design a suit that is as nearly proof against sm a l l a r m s a n d , t o a l e s s e r d e g r e e ,
other weaponry as is hum a n l y p o s s i b l e .
My first instinct is to take the Ursus Mk VII (http://proje cttroy.com .nexx.com/website/suithistory3.htm ), rep lace all cloth used
in the suit with Kelvar, add extra layers of Kelvar, and add Level IV ceram ic ballistics plating.
A n y o n e h a v e any ideas to im prove on this concept?
Wild Catmage April 2nd, 2004, 06:54 AM

Y e a h , c o m bine it with this (http://www.berkeley.edu/news/m e d i a / r e l e a s e s / 2 0 0 4 / 0 3/03_exo.shtm l) idea so you can m ove m ore
easily in it.
T h e c o m bine d idea is very sci-fi and out of range of mo st people's purchasing power. But in 20 years, who knows...
EDIT - I agree with th e thoughts on the technology not being restricted, except by price. And the point on crim i n a l s b e i n g a b l e
t o u s e s o m e t h i n g c h e a p e r a n d m o r e e a s i l y a v a ilable.
The device includes a power unit and a backpack-like fram e used to carry a large load.
" T h e l e g s o f a n a l u m i n u m s k e l e t o n h a ng from H o m a y o o n K a z e r o o n i ' s b a c k p a c k , i t s f e e t b o l t e d t o h i s b o o t s . T h e l a n k y m e t a l

fram ework is part of an experimental robot, powered by a chain saw engine, that rides pig g y b a c k o n K a z e r o o n i , a m echanical
engineering professor at the University of C alifornia, Berkeley. He's trying to walk with the contraption, which weighs as m uch
a s a grown m an. As long as the engine is on, the robot walks with him, a nd he doesn't even feel the extra weight." - Science
News Online (http://www.sciencenews.o rg/articles/20010630/bob8.asp)
A new engine is being developed that will allow the exoskeleton to run fo r 24 hours. Initially it will burn petrol or butane, but
eventually aviation fu el will be u s e d .
I n 6 m onths, the load carrying capacity will almost doub le, and the control system will becom e faster. In a few years, maybe
running and jumping will be possible.
Did I hear something about a MECH-BOT (http://www.microsoft.com/gam e s / m ech warrior4/) :)
Arkangel April 2nd, 2004, 06:54 AM

W ell the first thing to do would be to forget about the suits this guy has designed . I don't know if you've seen the tv
program me, but it's worth it, just for comical va lue. Quite apart from being a general fruitcake, his design showed som e pretty
m ajor failings in it's given tasks.
That's not to knock what he's achieved in m aking a protective device, but you wouldn't want to do any fighting in it, any m ore
than you'd want to chase bears.
W hy? ZERO m obility.
Picture the scene - after a cou ple of weeks of trying, they've finally m anaged to spot a grizzly, three hundred yards across a
grassy plain. So his team suit him up double quick, point him in the right direction and off he trundles, until....SPLAT, face
down in the grass. So they pick him u p a g a i n , a n d S P L A T f a c e d o w n i n t h e g r a s s a g a i n , a n d a g a i n a n d a g a i n . M e a n w h i l e t h e
bear's sat down, opened a can of beer and is laughing it's ass off at the show. After half an hour o f this, the bear has
w a n d e r e d o f f , h e ' s e x h a u s t e d a n d c a n ' t m o v e , a n d t h e y d r a g h i m out of the suit, humiliated.
The same would apply to you. I don't care how tough it is, if you can't m ove around in something you're fucked, whether it's an
abrams or an Ursus. I don't know what environm ents you're considering using this in, but any tactical situation would be
disastrous. I'd just set up a couple of tripwires, then when you're on your face I'd stroll over with a can of gasoline a n d h a v e
m yself a nice lil' pot roast.
I'm sure the suit has some application s - m ine clearance m aybe, or distracting th e pit bulls in a crack raid. But don't ever
forget that without m obility you're a dead m an walking.
( A g r e e d o n t h e e x o s k e l e t o n t h o u g h W C , but th e m obility/flexibility issues still applies)
Cyclo_Knight April 2nd, 2004, 10:10 AM

There are a few problem s with the exoskeletons they developed at Berkely. Firstly They can only function for a limited time on
their battery power, It would be pretty lame to be frozen in place, or facedown on the battlefield with dead batteries. I think
y o u r e n e m ies would laugh so hard they'd piss themselves before they put you ou t of your hum iliation. :p
Another obvious problem is th at the power and computer are in a backpack the size of Danny DeVito! Massive m inaturization is
required before it would become useful for a personal (combat) exoskeleton. On top of looking really stupid, that backpack
would m a k e a m ighty fine target for your enem y. Even a minor hit would com pletely im m o b i l i z e y o u , a n d a n a m a z i n g b u l l e t -
proof arm or suit is totally useless if your stuck!
O n e m ore problem is the fact that the algorithms are tailored to level walking, or on a slight incline. The ability to crawl, jump,
or even run is still years away. Massive advancem ents in com puter miniturization are needed before the m assive co m p u t a t i o n s
required can be perfo rm e d a t t h e s p e e d o f b a t t l e . I n a d d i t i o n t h e b a t e r i e s n e e d t o b e s l i g h t l y s m a l l e r t h a n m y e g o . ; )
**EDIT**
Catmage...I doubt that this technology will be very restricted in the future, if at all. The only technology which is restricted is
that which threatens m ilitary superiority, or poses a possible danger to the public. Any application of this technology on a
sim ilar scale has little practiality for crim i n a l u s e .
W hat do you envision? Perps running from the cops in a new m o d i f i e d E x o - s k e l e t o n ? W h y w o u l d s o m e o n e u s e a $ 8 0 , 0 0 0

e x o s k e l e t o n t o d o w h at a $3,000 Ford pickup o r motorcycle can do much faster and easier?!
Obviously if the technology is applied on an extremely large scale, extrem e d a m age could be done. However the te chnological
difference between assisted-m o v e m e n t and a giant fucking MECH-BO T is so considerable, it's like com p a r i n g a p a p e r - a i r p l a n e
to a Predator UAV! :rolleyes:
**END EDIT* *
Arkangel April 4th, 2004, 10:04 AM

A f a i k t h o s e e x o s k e l e t o n s u s e p o w e r f r o m a s m all internal com bustion engine - the sort you have in a strim mer or lawn
vacuum.
Flake2m April 5th, 2004, 10:02 AM

W ell advancements in fuel cell technology mean that the power pack needed to for such a gaget is only a few years away from
bein g sm all enough to fit in a school b ag. Even if you solved the power supply problem yo u'd still need to solve these
p r o b l e m s; perspiratio n, how the hell would would you go to the toilet easily!?!, improving m obility,
sand & grit in the suit and miniturisation.
It wouldn't be that ha rd to miniturise the circuitry, prototype m o d e l t e n d t o b e m o re bulky because the system s are still bein g
debugged and tested .
But other then that the armored suit isn't m uch different from a suit of armor that knights used to wear in the m edieval tim e s .
Just replace the sword with a rifle and paint the suit in cam o f l a g e a n d y o u h a v e a m o d e r n d a y K n i g h t .
Jacks Complete April 12th, 2004, 09:43 AM

Perhaps needless to say, the whole thing is a bit m a d . T h e r e s e a r c h i s b e i n g p a i d f o r b y t h e U S D o D , a n d t h e y h a v e b e e n
working on these thin gs for years and years, and getting alm ost nowhere. In the tim e i t h a s t a k e n t h e m t o d e v e l o p a b u l k y
prototype, we have seen Honda and others build very capable two-legged robots that can run, jump and clim b stairs... and
then halve its size!
Of course, power assisted suits are the fat-boy soldiers dream ! No more forced m arches! 8 foot barbed wire fence? No problem.
Double brick wall in the way, p unch a h ole...
I think we will eventually see things like the Guyver, but whether or not we bother putting som e o n e i n s i d e t h e m is a different
m atter.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Hexachlorobenzene
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Bert April 2nd, 2004, 02:17 AM

I'm sitting here looking at the CO PAE article on Trinitrotriazidobenzene, which starts out with trichlo robenzene... And I realize
I ' v e g o t s o m e H e x a c h l o r o b e n z e n e i n m y s t o r e s ( u s e d b y us as a Chlorine donor in certain pyrotechnic form ulations, prim arily
c o l o r e d A P / M a g n e s i u m strobe stars). Any possible routes to this product from the Hexachlorobenzene com e t o m i n d ?
Mr Cool April 2nd, 2004, 01:24 PM

None that I can think of. Big Cl's and the ring itself cause lots of hinderance, m a k i n g a n y a t t a c k l e s s l i k e l y , a n d t h o s e C l ' s
won't leave because there's nothing electron-withdrawing on the ring - in the synth. of TAT NB, the nitro's ha ve to be put on
before the Cl's can be replaced. And you can't put on any nitro's without replacing a Cl...
Best to use it for pyrotechnics :).
Bert April 2nd, 2004, 02:19 PM

None that I can think of.
<snip>
Best to use it for pyrotechnics :).
I kind of figured-
Oh well, it's going to go for the original use. BT W, it's HAR D to find in the U S m arket anym ore, carcinogenic & such. Used to be
the m ost popular chlorine don or for a while after W W I I .
nbk2000 April 2nd, 2004, 08:40 PM

patent search pulled up plenty of hits on degrading it as a remediation technique.
Partial degradation m ight be possible, to strip off just a few of the chlorines.
T_Pyro April 3rd, 2004, 12:34 AM

C o m e to think of it, how'd you go about preparing hexa chlorobenzene anyway? My guess would be to reduce the nitro groups
of 1,3,5-trinitrobenzene to am ine grou ps using Sn/HCl, chlorinate the product with excess Cl2 in th e p r e s e n c e o f F e C l 3 ,
follo wed by replacem e n t o f t h e a m i n e g r o u p s b y Cl via the diazonium route. Will this method work, or is there som e better
m ethod?
Marvin April 3rd, 2004, 06:47 AM

I would be worried the chlorination reaction wou l d d a m a g e t h e a m ine groups.
You will be dissapointed at the industrial methods. To d eliberatly make it you can simply react benzene with excess chlorine
using ferric chloride catalyst at 200C or so. Large am ounts turn up industrially as byproducts when m aking other chlorinated
chemicals like perchloroethylene and its retained very well by fra ctionating colum ns. They have to either dispose of it or sell it.
T_Pyro April 4th, 2004, 03:10 PM

W ell, I'd exp ect just that from industrial m ethods. It's strange how the worst laboratory methods m ake great industrial
m ethods, though! W hat a waste, just disposing of it, especially since it's so hard to find nowadays.
Mumble April 4th, 2004, 09:06 PM

In C OPAE it gives a violent preparation of HCB. You react Chloroform with Sodium m e t a l . L o o k s l i k e a f u n d e m o , b u t It would
be difficult to collect the HCB.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Booby traps
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Ropik April 3rd, 2004, 05:03 AM

Anyone knows good links or other info about booby traps? It can be about pungi traps, exploding pens, anything. T h a n k s
Psymage April 3rd, 2004, 06:06 AM

Maby you will found som e inform ation on this (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/) site.
Ropik April 7th, 2004, 04:58 PM

Yes, this site is good, but m ainly for trapping sm all gam es. I wa nt to learn how to trap m en!
Ropik April 11th, 2004, 08:52 AM

I a m looking f o r b o o k s :
Scientific Principles of Improvised Warfare
Assorted nasties - Da vid Harber
Silent death - Uncle Fester
Any ideas?
I will GR EATLY appreciate any scans, excerpts, parts, ideas etc.
P.S.: I KNOW about one excerpt about aconitine on this forum .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Im provise d fridge
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K'Luuppo April 3rd, 2004, 06:10 AM

I have used to put things outside if they had to be kept in cold, but now the outside temp eratures are rising and after few
weeks i don't know if that will be possible anym ore but I have to keep things cold . Our fridge isn't really an option, so it cam e
to m y m ind to m a k e m y own "fridge".
I thought it could be m ade with a 80W peltier-elem e n t , a c o o l i n g " h e d g e h o g " , a c o m p u t e r c h a s s i s f a n , s t y r o f o a m a n d a

therm ometer. It could be an styrofoam box/cylinder with peltier-thing on bottom . "Hedgehog" is then glued on the peltier with
s o m e h e a t g l u e . T h e n t h e f a n is bolted onto "hedgehog". Finally, the therm o m eter is put through lid and a ll wires a re
connected to a power supply. A picture about thing is on http://koti.m bnet.fi/verkku/fridge/fridge.bmp
I have few problem s still: I have no idea about how tem perature could be adjusted, but m ore im portantly, would 80 W peltier
b e e n o u g h t o c o o l ~ 3 00ml water to near freezing point?
IDTB April 5th, 2004, 12:42 PM

It could be an styrofo a m b o x / c y l i n d e r
I wouldn't recomm end styrofoam as instillation. I'm not sure how well it'd work scientifically, but m y expierence with it tells it's
not a wise ch oice. A d ecent com mercial 'mini-fridge' costs around $100. I have no com plaints with m ine. Th ough, I've never
been much of a do it yourself'er. Good luck with your project.
Boomer April 5th, 2004, 02:12 PM

I once built a peltier fridge to use up the large access of photovoltaic energy (had installed 550Wp ), not wanting to buy any
m ore batteries (were already 800Ah).
T h e s t y r o f o a m box was approx. 30 litre net volum e, cooled with one 50W peltier. It reached 20C under ambient tem p at full
current. :)
Y o u n e e d G O OD cooling with a THICK heat sink + BIG fan on the outside , plus so me means to distribute the cold inside, i.e.
another heat sink + fan. Alternately you can lin e the bottom of the box with quite thick alum inium (3-5m m ) t o i n c r e a s e
surface. Between the 3-5m m s h e e t a n d t h e p e l t i e r s h o u l d b e a n o t h e r b l o c k o f a l u o f 5 - 1 0 m m .
So forget about the P C f a n . A t a C O P o f 1 y o u m ust dissipate 160W from a 8 0 W T E C m o d u l e . A g o o d P C fan has a rating of
0.5K/W (Pentium -2 fans were above 1K/W ). Th is gives you a hot side of +111C at room ambient, i.e. your "cold" side is +45C
at best (= you have built a he ating cham ber). :p
W ith a "real" fan (see www.fischerelektronik.de, look for "Hollow-Fin Cooling Aggregates") you get down to 0.04K/W . This gives
y o u a w a r m s i d e o f 6 . 4 C a b o v e a m bient, so your cold side can g o 30C below this (allowing for som e l o s s e s a n d t h e r m a l
resistance between the parts).
And you need a perfect heat transfer: The best is silver-filled pa ste between perfectly parallel + sm ooth surfaces. You can still
expect to pay 100 bucks for electricity over the summ er! Or rather your m u m ... ;)
Good luck!
K'Luuppo April 5th, 2004, 04:20 PM

S e e m s m ore complicated than I thought...
How about those com mercials mini-fridges? They probably aren't using electricity worth of 100$ so there m ust be so m e k i n d o f
m ore efficient method to carry the hea t out from the bo x. Is it sam e m e t h o d a s i n r e a l f r i d g e s , g a s c o m p r e s s i n g a n d
decompressing or are they built with som e other cooling system ? 1 0 0 $ / s u m mer sounds quite much, our wh ole consuption
would be doubled...
Tuatara April 5th, 2004, 06:58 PM

I'd have thought a used bar fridge cou ld be had dirt cheap. I got a big deep freeze for $NZ150 second-han d.
Peltiers, while they work, are never the cheap o ption. The C OP is poor, the m a x i m u m working delta T is poor, they are
e x p e n s i v e f o r the power tranfer rating.
R e m e m b e r t h a t a n 8 0 W peltier can only pum p 80W when the delta T across the device is just a couple of d egrees . W h e n y o u
g e t u p t o 6 0 d e g r e e s d e l t a t h e p u m p i n g c a p a c i t y d r o p s t o a l m o s t n o t h i n g , d e s p i t e t h e 1 6 0 W of electrical power you are pouring
in.
mongo blongo April 6th, 2004, 03:42 PM

Y o u c a n m ake a multi-stage peltier by stacking them on top of each other if you want to increase delta T across the device.
Fatboy April 6th, 2004, 06:02 PM

S e e m s m ore complicated than I thought...
How about those com mercials mini-fridges? They probably aren't using electricity worth of 100$ so there m ust be so m e k i n d o f
m ore efficient method to carry the hea t out from the bo x. Is it sam e m e t h o d a s i n r e a l f r i d g e s , g a s c o m p r e s s i n g a n d
decompressing or are they built with som e other cooling system ? 1 0 0 $ / s u m mer sounds quite much, our wh ole consuption
would be doubled...
From m y e x p e r i e n c e , m ini fridges use a peltier elemen t.
Its probably best to go looking round a scrap yard or asking people for old fridges , as there m u c h b i g g e r . I f y o u h a d a b u s t e d
fridge im sure the com pressor and refrigerant system could be rigged up to m a k e a m uch m ore powerful version of this
im p r o v i s e d f r i d g e . T a k e a l o o k o n v a r i o u s p h a s e - c h a n g e P C c o o l i n g w e b s i t e s .
Marvin April 7th, 2004, 01:18 AM

An 80W peltier will on ly pum p 80W at 0 degrees difference and there is a roughly linear relationship between tem perature
difference and power pumped.
Stacking peltiers is not usually helpful. Becuase they use rather a lot of power, as you stack them pum ping capacity falls
e x p o e n t i a l l y t o v e r y s m a l l a m o u n t s . W orse still becuase of the way silicon peltiers work, as the hot side tem perature drops the
p u m ping cap acity and the max tem perature difference (which depends on the area, the m aterials and the pum ping capacity)
drop rapidly as well as the fact that each lower stage has to pum p all the power being wasted by all the stages above,
regardless of if they are doing real work or not, so each addition al stage only increases the m a x t e m p e r a t u r e d i f f e r e n c e b y a
m u c h s m a l l e r a m o u n t . O n e s t a g e c a n g e t y o u a m a x i m u m o f 7 0 - 8 0 C t e m perature difference (at zero pumping capacity) you
n e e d 3 s t a g e s t o g e t t o a r o u n d 120C difference and from that point things just get m uch worse. There is probably a single
stag e fluorocarbon that can get 150C from room temp in 1 stage. O n the bright side peltiers are silent and dont wear out.
B o o m er also has a very good point m ade perhaps not strenously enough. Gluing the heatsink will do very badly indeed. USe
therm al paste for a C PU, and boly it on tightly. Bolting it on without alowing the screws to therm ally short th e peltier will be a
chore in itself. Styrofoam should provide decent insulation.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > The Forum h a s b e e n
ATTACKED!
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megalomania April 3rd, 2004, 03:57 PM

I would like to inform the m embership that Rogue Science has recently b een the subject of a rather lam e a n d c o m p letely
ineffective DOS attack.
T h e m e m ber responsible for this stupidity has been identified as Monkey_Poo69

IP: 66.185.84.205 : wc10.m tn k.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com
Other IPs: 65.48.110.222 and 66.185.84.205
Ema i l : m o n k e y _ p o o 1 2 2 9 @ h o t m ail.com
P l e a se feel free to express yo ur disple a s u r e i n t h e a p p r o p r i a t e m a n n e r .
Fortunately for us and attack on our dom ain is also an attack on a corporate webspace provider with considerable financial
and legal m uscle. T h e y s a i d t h e y h a v e already contacted the idiot s s e rvice pro vider.
MightyQuinn April 3rd, 2004, 07:43 PM

W ould it not be against the ru les, I would m ake a one line type post in response to this, however I am o n e o f t h e m e m bers
that has read the rules and will strictly abide by them. Hence I give you as pream ble this long and ram bling diatribe.
After all; one line is all that is needed.
Monkey_Poo69 is a jackass.
I will vehem ently express m y distain for his childish and possibly crim inal activities. I will cackle like mad as the little fuckwad
shits his drawers under the du ress this will little stunt will cause him .
I ll leave to yo u t o y o u r supper.
Hang-Man April 3rd, 2004, 10:18 PM

h m m.... You have to ask why. He had to have known th is place would require a bit of skill to break, and he a l s o h a d t o h a v e
known that when we caught him we would ruin his shit. This site seem s to attract societies brightest and well as its a bsolute
dum best.
If Rogers hasn't cut his service by now I think I'll go have som e fun. ;)

I t i s s a d t o s e e m orons, unm a s k t h e m selves in such away. Though I'm sure he d i d t h e m a t h . " I h a v e a a m m ount of
bandwidth and the website only has b am m o u n t. W here a s a d e v i d e d i n t o b e q u a ls atleast one fourth.". No t to even m e n t i o n
the fact over trying to use a shell or something to cover his tracks......[etc]
I m ust say I prefer the age-old m ethod where lamers just download the book[s] of forbidden stupidty and them proceed to
releave them s e l v e s o r u n - n e e d e d e x t r e m ities, but hey maybe I'm o l d f a s h i o n e d
Monkey you Ke\/\/ |_ :cool:

As a t time of posting, 66.185.84.205 is totally not there, according to nm ap.
Looks like he is gone .
Any idea if he has m e s s e n g e r ? M i g h t b e a b l e t o t r a c k h i m v i a h i s e m a i l a d d r e s s ?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Look out, it's more BS from
Australia's ta bloids
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Zeitgeist April 4th, 2004, 03:34 AM

http://www.heraldsun.news.com . a u / c o m m on/story_page /0,5478,9181094%5E2862,00.htm l
It's not like it's a bloody bom b i n a b a g , s h o u l d h a v e g u e s s e d t h i s g u y i s o n e o f t h e o n e s t h a t d i d t h a t c a r b o m b d o c u m e n t a r y .
The initiating explosive is the key to an AN device, as everyone here knows, not buying th e AN
Lil_Guppy April 4th, 2004, 03:49 AM

The initiating explosive is the key to an AN device, as everyone here knows, not buying th e AN
But if they were to say that, the public (read: sheeple) would not as readily support a banning of the substance, or at least
support supply regulations being put in place. I have also notice d that th e m e d i a s o m e t i m e s t a k e s c a r e n o t to be too specific,
l e a v i n g t h e e x p l o s i v e a s b e i n g d e s c r i b e d s i m ply as 'fertiliser'. IMO, this also could 'program ' the sheeple to think th at
fertilisers in general can be used for such purposes, opening it up for the government to restrict ch e m i c a l s s u c h a s p o t a s s i u m
nitrate (don't laugh, I was told by my supplier that they recieved an 'unofficial' no tice that it m a y b e h e a d i n g for the watched
list as well as AN). I honestly think that to be able to report a story, a reported must have some knowledge about the topic.
But then aga in, the gov. wouldnt be able to use them as puppets if reporters actually new what they were reporting was BS
:p"It is too readily available to the average Joe off the street." Yeah, but the 'average Joe' wouldn't want to use AN for
anything other than greening up their lawn.The Europea n U n i o n r e g u l a t e s a m m onium nitrate production, insisting it be m a d e
in la rge granules that are harder to turn into a bom b.Have they not heard of such things as a ball m ill or other such
equipment?! :rolleyes:

They will probably realise that it can just be ballmilled down, and go to other more foolproof methods of rendering it
undetonatable.
L i k e m ixing it with Ca C O 3 - W hen every schoolkid knows how to seperate it.
vulture April 4th, 2004, 07:10 AM

Let 'em ban NH4NO3. It's the last thing they'll do in their political careers when farm ers and industry find out how much it's
goin g to cost them.

The difference here is that if your average joe walks in and buys 50kg of AN. They'll use it for gree ning up there lawn or garden
99.99% of the tim e. It is the 0.01% of population that ruin it for the rest.
As for the london raids, mentioned in the article, if someone has 500kg of AN and doesnt have a garden or farm then I'd
consider it suspect.
Mr Cool April 4th, 2004, 09:23 AM

Just look at the reporter!!
GIMP! GIMP!
megalomania April 4th, 2004, 09:54 PM

I h a d a c o p y o f a g o v e r n m ent publication that said they are starting to watch the sale of p otassium a n d s o d i u m n i t r a t e s , b u t
not calcium nitrate for som e r e a s o n . O nly at the bulk to n level for now.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > R eplicas and their sizes
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steyr April 4th, 2004, 01:06 PM

I want to make 1:1 replica of M1 Garand, m aybe anyone know it's size? I'll be grateful for som e t e m p l a t e s . O m m m , especially
size of stock and barrel length. Trigger, Trigger guard etc, won't be problem .
And, m a y b e s o m e o n e h a v e p h o t o s o f h o m e m ade replicas?
MightyQuinn April 4th, 2004, 01:25 PM

Try here......let them do the work.
http://www.swdecor.com/W WII-replica-M1-rifle.htm
http://www.swdecor.com/m 1-ww2-2.jpg
steyr April 4th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Try here......let them do the work.
http://www.swdecor.com/W WII-replica-M1-rifle.htm
http://www.swdecor.com/m 1-ww2-2.jpg
Y e a h m a n , b ut have you read what I p osted? I want to MAKE one, not to buy (in m y country you can buy sim ilar for about
100$).
Anyway, thanks for th e photos ;) but I know ho w M1 Garand looks :D
kennygkevin August 12th, 2006, 01:29 AM

W hat are you plannin g on building it from? And since its been two years since the last post, have you finished it? I was wanting
to m a k e m y own as well. I was plannin g on pvc or galve nized piping and wood.
nbk2000 August 12th, 2006, 03:11 AM

Necrom a n c y i s a b a n n a b l e o f f e n s e h e r e .
kennygkevin August 12th, 2006, 03:29 PM

Necrom a n c y i s a b a n n a b l e o f f e n s e h e r e .
what? yeah black art is bad sure whate ver. i was asking about building an m1 garand replica.
Jacks Complete August 13th, 2006, 09:30 AM

Bye bye, loser. Alm ost a pity you'll never see that post and ponder what a fool yo u are.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Explosive Enthusiasts say the darndest things.....
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Evan007 April 5th, 2004, 08:27 AM

I was just wondering what the most rediculous, humiliating, hilarious, or downright stupid things everybody has said in order to convince a paranoid nosey clerk, shop owner etc
to sell you a chemical OTC.
Lines that work well are welcome.
I Once convinced a stupid clerk that i needed some nitrotoluene for my fish. As It gave there scales the most lovely shine :D . The poor fellow believed me. I feel sorry for
those sort.

I said that I wanted to make TNT and guncotton while buying some conc. nitric acid and sulfuric acid. Seriously though, did you actually expect people to confess to their... ah,
creative talking skills while out shopping?
Tuatara April 5th, 2004, 07:02 PM

Funny thing is, I've always got a better response when I've told the supplier exactly what I want stuff for.
" I want 25kg of KNO3 for building rockets, and is your ammonium nitrate explosives grade?"
One cheque later and I had 25kg of each!
Maybe I just have an honest face :D
Marvin April 5th, 2004, 10:35 PM

Or maybe Tuatara, you made the guy scared enough to want you to leave as quickly, as quietly and as happily as possible.
blindreeper April 5th, 2004, 11:08 PM

When in a plumbing store asking for a 5m length of 2.5 inch HDPE pipe to be cut into 60cm long lenths they asked me "What is all this for son?" I said "I am making a
fireworks motar rack" They replied "Right...sure thing, thats $15 thanks"
Sometimes people don't believe the truth, like out of pirates of the carribean - it's the honest ones you have to look out for!
Haggis April 6th, 2004, 12:16 AM

There was a sale on ammonium nitrate cold packs at Walmart, they were closing out a brand. Each pack with around 150g AN was going for 50 cents. So, of course, I filled a
plastic bag with them, and tossed in two quarts of peroxide for good measure. The lady that checked me out seemed a bit befuddled about the nature of it all. I gave her the
money, and as I was grabbing all the bags, she said, "What do you need all of that for?" I replied, as I was walking away, "It's just a hassle when your friends fall out of
moving pickup trucks."

A good one is to say you're getting it for your mother/wife etc if they ask what it's for. You can plead ignorance.
I think it was the "Talented Mr. Ripley" or something that gave me quite an effective technique. If you can tell that they're suspicious, hand them the money and ask for a
certain combination of change, "for the bus" or something. It seems to stop them from asking whatever they were going to ask.

My reply to anyone asking me "What I am doing:"
So long as it's legal, I tell them it's none of their concern.
I go to a pool store and buy supplies. Guy at the counter asks me what I need this stuff for. I look at him with a blank stare (like he has a third eye) and reply......"why for my
pool, of course......duh"
You can also reply with something like "Is that question germane to completing this sale?"
I might be a little older than most, but I dont take shit from people. At 6 4 and 250+. I dont get many people giving me shit. :D
Dave Angel April 6th, 2004, 03:20 PM

It certainly gets easier as you get older, you tend to get asked less questions.
I avoid them by going to the youngest looking, blondest girl on a till if there is one. They really couldn't care less about their job nevermind what they sell as long as they get
paid their minimum wage.
If I am questioned, I've always been tempted to tell them it's none of their business, or words to that effect, but I believe this would just bring unwanted attention. I usually
check what the legitimate uses for what I will be buying are in advance so I can use the "why for my pool, of course......duh" line.
The ones that see right through you are generally going to be fellow pyros working at the till. I believe I may have come across one once. However, of all the possible cashiers,
they are going to care the least despite knowing the most.
tmp April 6th, 2004, 07:59 PM

Usually, I'm not asked about what I'm using my items for. One very effective
technique is to talk to the clerk about anything other than what I'm buying.
Also it helps to buy other unrelated items if you need them and if possible
talk about one of those items - e.g. DVD, "Wow ! This is the best price I've
seen on this movie !" Like a magician's technique for illusion, focus the clerk's
attention away from anything suspicious.
YayItGoBoom! April 6th, 2004, 10:58 PM

I was purchasing 3 1 qt bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide at Target, along with a pack of Pixie Stix (flavored sugar - so simple yet so addicting). So as she is bleeping them
with the bar code reader (for lack of better termonology) she asks me "Bleaching your hair, huh?" It caught me by surprize (for one, I am naturally blonde), but I managed to
get a spaced out "yeah." Then it clicked that I could use this to find out about higher concentrations of HP. So I asked her where i could get stronger stuff so I didn't have to
buy so much, and she told me they didn't have any at the store, but a sallon might have them. Otherwise I've had pretty much no hassles. I bought 2 1 gallon jugs of 35%
HCl and a gallon of acetone from Lowe's and she didn't even ask me a single question. Go figure. I guess you can't expect them always to be suspicious with 99% of purchases
completely legit, they probably get tired of asking after a while.
Trinitrotoluene April 7th, 2004, 12:37 AM

It's best to just go pay at a register with some teenager working, I remember several years ago I was at a hardware store, it happand to be some teenage girl working. I
brought a gallon on H2SO4 drain cleaner, two boxes to NaNO3 fertilizer four pound each, a small can of MEK, a liter of 30% H2O2 as wood bleach, I just went and paid for the
items, no comments made. From a visit to another hardware store I was questioned after buying H2SO4 drain cleaner. Another suggestion is if some stores have self checkout
lines, use them, to avoid being questioned.
zaibatsu April 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM

I find, at least in the UK, that you should never go to young (teenage) people at checkouts. They're usually being watched or are much more strict with rules about who can
and cannot buy items. Also, do not go to very old people, they just tend to be arseholes to you. I find it much better to go to busy 30-50 year olds, as they just don't care.
The only times I've been ID'd for alcohol has been when I was old enough to buy it and went to some fucking teenager... I reassure myself with the idea that she just wanted
to know my name ;) I live in hope anyway
megalomania April 7th, 2004, 02:30 AM

I prefer to say I am getting the items for my (insert friend, family member, significant other here) for their business and I don't know what it is for, I am only following orders.
I also like to know what the legit uses of the stuff are before I go in.
blindreeper April 7th, 2004, 01:08 PM

My mum has always said to me "If its on their shelves and they sell it, its none of their god damn bussiness what you use it for, you pay for the goods you get the goods"
I suppose she is right, but I can't help myself thinking about excuses for the things I buy.
Mega, I used that technique the other day when getting sulfur from some hick store. They guy said "Doing some experimenting eh" whilst taking my money, I replied about
how my brother and I were out picking up his bike from across the road (CBR 250 FYI) and that dad asked my to grab him some. Then he couldn't stop saying "Good on ya
mate" Weird!

That innocent ignorant approach works best when trying to get something (peroxide/permanganate etc.) from a medical store. I doubt whether it'd work for stuff like conc.
acids and stuff, though...
phoenix945 April 18th, 2004, 08:31 AM

Just this afternoon I went down to buy sodium hydroxide drain cleaner from the local supermarket. After taking a long time to decide I grabbed a drain cleaner containing 98%
sodium hydroxide. I went to the only open checkout and the lady instantly asked "You aren?t making bombs with it are you?" I was surprised. I truefuly answered "No." I also
said "I never thought it could be used for making bombs." she said "It can I studied it in law school." then I started to talk about all the formulas and shit that she wouldn?t
understand. She answered to that. "I don?t understand you because I don?t watch the news." she must be pretty dam stupid to think this was about the news. I should have
said. I am using it to unblock my thought it is very mucky or some other smart arse comment would have shut her right up. I said thank you, collected my change and pissed
off.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please use ' instead of ? in words like DON'T and WOULDN'T. Thank you.
NBK
john_smith April 19th, 2004, 10:01 AM

Like Mega said. Elseway some clerk will eventually try to talk you into buying something better (and more expensive, of course) for your invented purpose. Happened all the
time to me.
tmp May 28th, 2004, 01:08 PM

It's been awhile since I've read this thread. Zaibatsu, you have a good idea
there - go to a busy 30-50 year old clerk. You're right - they don't give a shit
and just want to get you out of that damn ASAP !
Nickth3great June 5th, 2004, 01:27 AM

Well, I supposed I've used variations of the majority of the tactics already disclosed here. I have also used 'disguises', well, sort of. Example.(and yes I have actually done this
before, kinda pathetic isn't it?) I go to buy a few lbs of BP from the gun store, so I dress up in my redneck clothes and look like I know what I'm doing. I find that if you look
like you belong there and know what you are doing, you are less likely to be questioned by the clerks. If I were going to buy a lot of what might be considered suspicious
items from a hardware store I would probably ware a shirt I had worn while painting fixing up the house. Thankfully I have not yet been questioned by any of the incompetent
service personal working at the hardware store, so I have not had to resort to my favorite and most extreme form of deception.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Magnesium Extraction From Epsom Salts
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Lord Malice April 5th, 2004, 03:26 PM

Gentlemen I am relatively new to the Forum and I am asking this question here because frankly i dont know whether it classifies as one that warrants the boot. I know that
the admins check here and if so tell me if it goes against rules or not.
Anyways, this is my question....i am going to try to extract magnesium from epsom salts (they contain small amounts of the element) and have already searched your
database for any advice/techniques...and found nothing to help. Im doing this at home using bare essentials...hot plate, common chemicals, and obviously standard lab
utensils.
If anyone has any advice it is appreciated.
Lord Malice

Epsom is hydrated MgSO4,
Hopefully you know enough, or are learing basic chemistry knowledge, so you know that you need to electrolyse the molten salt. An Aqeuous solution clearly won't work.
I'm not sure of the melting temperature off the top of my head, but i don't think it will be practical, unless you find something you can mix in to bring it down.
Lord Malice April 7th, 2004, 02:02 AM

Thanks for the reply brother,
I am in my fourth year of university chemistry with a minor in biology...so hopefully i do know something :confused:
Anyhow i know that i have to electrolyse the salt to separate the components but i was just wondering if anyone had any advice as to the best way to do that from
home...perhaps using a car battery or 12V? and then just scrape the Mg off the cathode. secondly would this method gather the highest recovery of magnesium? Is there a
better method?
Thanks for all your help.
----------------
Please use your shift key! And have a look at the screen you will see after you submit your posts. It tells you that your posts are subject to moderation and will show up after
they have been approved.
Rhadon

I have actually spent a lot of time researching this exact extraction, I am sure I have mentioned this before on other threads. Anyway, the subject interests me so I love to talk
about it.
Theoretically this is possible on the lab scale. Industrially they do this all the time. The short of it is you can electrolyze molten magnesium chloride to produce magnesium
metal.
Now some practical aspects to consider. First of all magnesium chloride melts at 712 degrees C, so no hotplate will do. You can mix this with some sodium or calcium chloride. I
believe they use calcium chloride to lower the melt temperature because at these temperatures calcium reacts with the mix and is not electrolyticly reduced. This is something
to consider for matters of purification.
Another situation to keep in mind is magnesium ignites in the presence of air at the melt temperature. Any electrochemical reduction will have to be done in a sealed container.
The cyanide thread has an excellent description of an apparatus, used by Marvin I think, where a metal pipe is heated and an exhaust pipe dips under water.
If I was doing this, and I intend to some day, I would use about a 60-40 mix of magnesium to calcium chloride well mixed in a steel pipe, fat diameter, capped at the bottom.
The top is sealed with cement, possibly the high temperature stuff. Also in this cement is a length of copper tubing that connects to a glass jar (like a pickle jar or mason jar).
You can cut a hole in the jars lid and glue in the copper tubing, or cement it. Another hole in this jar leads some tubing into a bottle of water. As the chlorine is released it
escapes through this copper tube, into the empty glass jar, and bubbles out through the bottle of water. In the mean time air is excluded from entering in because only water
would be sucked back. The purpose of the empty glass jar is to prevent water from being sucked into the superheated pipe when it begins to cool as this could be disastrous.
Another hole in the cement of the pipe holds your electrode. Get a carbon welding electrode. You may want to use the steel pipe itself as the other electrode, although I have
had mixed success getting an electrical contact to work in a more corroded pipe in other electrolysis experiments. If the pipe does not work then you have to stick in two
electrodes.
Just make sure the electrodes do not touch and try to minimize the amount of time that chlorine gas remains in the system. Make it so the magnesium forms on the pipe
electrode and the chlorine is released at the carbon electrode. The chlorine will react with magnesium and reform magnesium chloride at these temperatures. Stick the carbon
electrode down about half way into your salt off to one side. The reason you locate the electrode nearer to the side of the pipe (your other electrode) is to minimize electrical
resistance that can reduce yield.
The pipe system can be heated by building an improvised furnace. I suppose you could dig a hole in the ground, fill it with charcoal, and insert the pipe in the center. A
steel pipe should also be placed into the hole to allow you to blow air into the bottom to get a high temperature. You can use a blow dryer or something. Anyway thats
too much to go into now, do a search for improvised furnaces for other ideas.
One thing I would like to build is a low voltage, high amperage power source that connects straight into the wall. Battery chargers are nice and all, but the higher the
current, the faster your electrolysis will proceed, and you only have so much time for your charcoal to burn. You want to get the most magnesium you can in a single
heating. I cant vouch for the safety or effectiveness of this but you could rip the cord off a lamp, or extension cord or something, and separate the two wires. Place one
wire in a glass pan (a casserole dish or pie plate) of salt water and connect the other wire to an electrode. Place another length of wire in the salt water and connect
that to the other electrode. Tie the ends of the wire in the salt water to lead sinkers and separate these wires by several inches. Plug it in the wall and pray Technically
the salt water acts as an improvised rheostat to control the current so you dont blow a fuse. By moving the wires closer together or farther apart you control the
current. Never let them touch out there will be a short. The salt water will also heat up so it may need some ice if this runs too long. Never, ever touch the water, you will get
electrocuted!
You can make magnesium chloride from Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) in a few easy steps. First, prepare a concentrated solution of magnesium sulfate and a
concentrated solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Bring the magnesium sulfate solution to a boil and add the baking soda solution. Im not going to calculate
the molar ratios of how much to add because it s late and your problem anyway, suffice it to say you can calculate exactly how much sodium bicarb solution to add
based on solubility in a saturated solution. If you have a scale even better, one mole of sodium bicarb reacts with one mole of magnesium sulfate. What you end up with is a
solid precipitate of magnesium carbonate. Collect the crystals on a filter or something and wash them well with water to remove any traces of sodium sulfate. SLowly add
hydrochloric acid to the magnesium carbonate and it will form magnesium chloride. Boil the solution down to get the crystals.
If you try this I sure would like to hear your results.
MightyQuinn April 7th, 2004, 04:19 AM

One thing I would like to build is a low voltage, high amperage power source that connects straight into the wall........the higher the current, the faster your electrolysis
will proceed, ....... I can t vouch for the safety or effectiveness of this but you could rip the cord off a lamp, or extension cord or something, and separate the two
wires......
As I have done "time" at a plating plant I can assure you that you will want to invest in (or construct) a DC power supply. Your theory of using AC current would not be
prudent, nor would it be effective.
As a side note..as a rookie at the plant I ruined a batch of valve stem covers while nickle plating by goosing the rectifier to a higher than spec amperage.the parts
were referred to as burned and had a mottled, discolored and crystalline quality..NOT desirable for that application, but possibly what you require.
Boomer April 7th, 2004, 10:18 AM

Why not get a cheap welding transformer? They go to 100-200 Amps! Could even rent one or ask a friend.
All you need then is a rectifier bridge (e.g. B80C50000) for 50A screwed to a metal heat sink (thick alu plate placed half in water) per element, working with 2-4 pipes. These
rectifiers cost 3 bucks each (in radio shops more like 10 bucks).
Or put them in parallel, but then they MUST be on the same heat sink, or one will overheat and take all the current. Small resistors (<0.1 Ohm, or just a metre of wire) in
series to each can prevent that.
P.S. Older PC power supplies give 5V at 20-30A. You could start with one of them.
Anthony April 7th, 2004, 02:15 PM

I bought a Switch Mode Power Supply on ebay. Originally intended to power racks of hard disks, I bought it for the auxillary outputs of +12v and -12v at 15A. But the main
output is 5v (DC) at 65A.
IIRC, 5VDC is good for electrolysis, and the current should be enough. The PSU is only 1-1/2" tall and runs cool.
Cost me 20 and there's always something on there, there will be more on ebay.com too than the UK one.

IIRC, 5VDC is good for electrolysis,
Of course, it depends on the elements involved.
A list of standard redox potentials is your friend.

Megalomania,
Ive described a similar apperatus used by someone else, but I think you are probably thinking of Polverones phosphorous method?
Aside from the annoying filtering of calcium sulphate, is there a problem with simply mixing epsom salts and calcium chloride to get magnesium chloride?
There is some useful information in 'Elements of electrochemistry' 1897, it describes a demonstration method that could potentially be scaled up.
20 grams of crystalised magnesium chloride,

7.5 grams of potassium chloride,
3 grams of ammonium chloride,
Fused in a crucible and then poured into an unglazed clay pipe (as in for smoking) previosly strongly heated, kept hot with a blowpipe flame and clamped in place. A knitting
needle is introduced to the stem of the pipe that serves as the cathode and a carbon rod is dipped into the bowl as the anode and approx 18v is applied (the book predates
power supplies this so this actually 10 lead acid batteries in series) next a thick layer of finely ground wood charcol is put in the bowl covering the molten salt. This prevents the
magneium burning in the air, and also stops it being distributed as a powder through the molten salt. At the end, the contents are broken open and globules of magnesium up
to 5mm are found inside.
It seems a little wood charcol can work wonders, its a shame this trick cant be used for making sodium from sodium hydroxide.
I think an electric welder would be a very good idea, some are available with DC output and the 50v odd open circuit voltage would probably drop to less than 20v or so under
moderate load. Aditionally they have a degree of control over the current. For an AC welder boomers method of stacking diodes in parallel to avoid thermal avalanche is
absolutly the way to go, though I think 10 to 20 mohms per 50 to 10A rated diode would be neerer the optimum values.
Switched mode power supplies might be workable with ordinary water based electrolysis, where cell resistance is known, fairly high, and and not variable but I suspect they
wont take a lot of abuse before they die, unlike welders. Using them with molten salt electrolysis might be unwise, they are designed to power electrics with a regulated
constant voltage after all.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > A little close for com fort
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tom haggen April 6th, 2004, 10:46 AM

Y a s o m e b r e a k i n g n e ws last n ight about a cach e o f p i p e b o m bs that was found about 3 to wns over. I live in The Northwest so it
shouldn't be hard to tell what i'm talking about. I've been considering qu iting my pyro adventures lately, and this ju s t m a k e s
m e m ore sketch. First topic I've ever started woo hoo. Then again I don't m a k e p i p e b o m b s l i k e t h e d u m b a s s e s w h o g o t
caught with them . I will post m ore information on the bust when I find out about it. If anyone else knows anything feel free to
post.

I had to get a subscription to view this:
M o r e t h a n 1 0 0 p i p e b ombs found in Hillsboro h o m e , p o l i c e s a y
07:12 AM PDT on Tuesday, April 6, 2004
By T ER ESA BELL and SAM LOUIE, KGW Staff
H I L L S B O R O - - P o l i c e e v a c u a t e d s e v e r a l a p a r t m ents in a Hillsboro neighborhood after officer said they found more than 100
pipe bom b s i n s i d e a h o m e l a t e M o n d a y night.
Investigators work with a bomb squad at the scene in Hillsboro early Monday. (KGW Photo )
The residence, located at 645 W. Main Street, is part of a duplex, according to investigators.
Police said they were initially called to the scene to conduct a welfare check on a resident. But after they gained perm ission to
enter the hom e, officers said they found items they had never e x p e c t e d .
I t s m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h e r e a r e h o m e m a d e p i p e b o m b s o f v a r i o u s sizes r a n g i n g f r o m t h r e e inches, to six inches, a n d a f o o t

long , s a i d C o m m a n d e r H e nry Reim a n , a s p o k e s p e r s o n w i t h t h e H i l l s b o r o P o l i c e D e p a r t m e n t . " W e've com e t o p l a c e s t h a t
h a v e o n e o r t w o p i p e b o m b s b e f o r e , b u t n o t h i n g over the quantity that's in this apartm ent, at this point."
An officer, in a safety suit, carries a suspected pipe bom b o u t o f t h e h o m e. (KGW Photo)

A bomb squad was quickly called in, to safely d eal with the suspected pipe bom bs. Police said the explosives were all safely
transported out of the neighborhood by Monday morning.
Officers also questioned all the residents and arrested one person at the hom e l a t e M o n d a y .
tom haggen April 6th, 2004, 08:38 PM

http://www.kptv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1764215 heres a link to the story. I'm wondering if they were m ade from just black
powder. That would be my guess..

S o m ething is rotten in the state of Denm ark... I am willing to wager that what the y found was a singular pipe bom b , a n d l o t s o f
m e t a l p i p e s a n d e n d c a p s . R e m e m ber that cop s l i k e t o m a k e a s s u m p t i o n s b a s e d o n w h a t s t u f f c o u l d b e . J u s t b e c a u s e y o u
h a v e a f e w b o x e s o f c o l d p i l l s a n d s o m e i o d i n e d o e s n o t m e a n y o u h a v e m e t h a m p h e t a m ine, just like a bag of am m o n i u m
nitrate out in the shed next to a spool of electrical wire is not a "bomb capable of killing hundreds of children."
W e also don't know h o w b i g t h e s e a l l e g e d p i p e b o m bs were diameter wise. Are we talking 115 thre e inchers of 1/4 inch tubing?
Essentially firecrackers make of m e t a l . I h a d s o m e f r i e n d s t h a t u s e d t o m a k e s o m e of these with 1/8 inch copper tubing
crimped at either end and filled with a mix of bp and the stuff from s p a r k l e r s . T h e t u b e s o n t h e s e d o n ' t e v e n b u r s t a n d t h e y
can be reuse d.
I just suggest this because end caps a re expensive buggers, the bigger they get the price rises ex ponentially. A two inch OD
pipe cap can cost more than a pipe.
Still it sounds like this guy should have spent his money on baby food rather than BP and pipes.
MightyQuinn April 7th, 2004, 03:55 AM

Here is a link to a picture....hard to tell from it.
http://www.kgw.com /news-local/stories/L_IMAGE.fac4e2432c.93.88.fa.80.fc7439ce
The original article I posted was quoted saying the following:
I t s m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h e r e a r e h o m e m a d e p i p e b o m b s o f v a r i o u s sizes r a n g i n g f r o m t h r e e inches, to six inches, a n d a f o o t

long , s a i d C o m m a n d e r H e nry Reim a n

here we go. I found a link that actually shows a pic of som e of the coppe r pipe bombs tha t were seised.http://www.katu.com/
news/story.asp?ID=66048 Sorry if I was unclear but the apparently the police found hundreds of pipebom b s . T h e g u y m a k i n g
them was obviously a piece of shit, the police were calle d because of child neglect. This took place in Hillsboro, Oregon, theres
l o t s o f m e x i c a n s a n d m e t h a d dicts in that town.
nbk2000 April 7th, 2004, 06:13 PM

W hite trash was m aking cherry bombs out of copper pip e fittings. Hardly a bom b m aker. :rolleyes:
Is it my im a g i n a t i o n o r a r e t h o s e p i p e s S O L D E R E D ? I a m a s s u m i n g t h e f o o l f i l l e d t h e m through the visco hole.
S o m ething else in the story ju m p e d o u t a t m e . T h i s q u o t e :
Officers responding to a call found enough explosive materials to m ake m ore than 100 pipe bom bs inside one of the
apartm ents
"...to make..." being the operative phrase. Following this story, it started as 100 pipe bom bs, and then progressed to a few big
firecrackers and the materials "to make"
T a k i n g a q u i c k l o o k i n m y b a s e m e n t I can f ind m ateria l s t o m a k e a s h i t l o a d o f pipe b o m b s C o p p e r wa t e r pipe, e n d c a p s ,

black powder, sm o k e l e s s powder, various chem icals, 3 g a l v a n i z e d p i p e all innocent item s in m y p o s s e s s i o n f o r n o r m al,
everyday household m aintenance work and gun-related hobbies.
I hate the ignorant, slanted, biased media.

It would seem that th is report is full of holes. O ne thing s for certain, the dumbass cops luckly stum bled on to this find. NBK, I
h a v e t h e s a m e f e e l i n g s a s y o u , t h e g u y m a k i n g t h o s e c o p p e r p i p e b o m bs was a total dum bass. Not even worthy of being
called a kewl. I believe those are held together with cau lking in the center of the device. However, I too tho ught that they were
soldered at first. Caulking would hardly provide a sufficient enou gh bond to hold up against the pressure allowing the copper
casing to be destroye d.
Nhala1 April 7th, 2004, 10:26 PM

I hope that that pile of crap in the picture is not his work space. People who are u n o r g a n i s e d a n d a m a t u r i s h a r e o f t e n a s
dangerous as those who are organised. The difference being that the unorganised endanger everyone, not just their target.

Ya everyone including the toddler that lived at his house. I swea r to god the kind of people that have kids :rolleyes:, It
b o g g e l s t h e m ind. O nce again this just proves m y theory that americans need to get a license to procreate, and I need to be
the one to issue them .
Sparky April 9th, 2004, 02:14 PM

I'll add this one to my ever growing collection o f rediculous news stories/over reactions.
" People who a r e u n o r g a n i s e d a n d a m a t u r i s h ( s i c ) a r e o f t e n a s d a n g e r o u s a s t h o s e w h o a r e o r g a n i s e d . T h e d i f f e r e n c e b e i n g

that the unorganised endanger everyone, not just their target."
Did you even look at the pictu r e s o f t h e " p i p e b o m b s " t h e g u y m a d e ? I f y o u ' r e s a y i n g h e i s d a n g e r o u s t o h i m self and possibly
p e o p l e h e ( p ossibly) sells those those things too, then O K. But it sounds like you are implying that he's som e sort of terrorist
with a plan, which is rediculous. W hat he was m aking were obviously noise m akers, whether to sell or for personal use. The
" f o o t l o n g " o n e s l o o k v e r y m u ch like they were just paper tubes as casings and they had "B.P." labeled on them (from
watching the KATU video).
"Neighboring apartm ents were evacuated while the area was cleared."
:rolleyes: just in case one of the 3 inch BP filled copper pipes sp o n t a n e o u s l y " d e t o n a t e d " a n d s e n t a p i e c e o f c o p p e r shrapnel
s e v e r a l d e c a m eters, to go through a wall and k ill all the children! Way to overreact and sensationalize. I su spect that the police
d o n ' t g e t m u c h a c t i o n s o t h e y h a v e t o m a k e t h e m ost of what they get. After all if you don't look useful your funding gets cut.
I think the copper pipes are soldered shut, esp ecially since in the video it shows a casing put together with a fuse hole and no
fuse - probably awaiting filling and fusing.

I'm just para noid, and I don't like hearing about people getting busted that live in the sam e state as m e . T h a t s t h e m a i n
reason why I posted this thread, I don't really care about that whitetrash dude. It's just bad publicity for our hobby in m y neck
of the woods. I definitely thou ght It was retarte d that th e b o m b squad was wearin g so much protective gear to transport som e
black powder pipe bom b s . I c o u l d u n d e r s t a n d i f t h e p i p e b o m b s c o n t a i n e d s o m e unstable prim aries or som ething.
Nhala1 April 10th, 2004, 01:44 AM

"If you're saying he is dangerous to him self an d p o s s i b l y p e o p l e h e ( p o s s i b l y ) s e lls those those things too, then OK." -
Correct.
"you are imp lying tha t he's so me sort of terrorist with a plan" - Incorrect
I was im plying that I believe he would have trouble putting his shoes on the right feet. I apologise for not clarifying.
Anthony April 10th, 2004, 10:20 AM

I c o u l d u n d e r s t a n d i f t h e p i p e b o m b s c o n t a i n e d s o m e u nstable prim aries or som e t h i n g .
To be fair, how do they know that the contents are stable?
But yes, I think it is mainly that they d on't get to do their stuff much, and then go all out when an opportunity does arise.

I definitely thought It was retarted that the bomb squad was wearing so m uch protective g ear to transport some black powder
pipe bom b s . I c o u l d u n d e r s t a n d i f t h e p i p e b o m b s c o n t a i n e d s o m e unstable prim aries or som ething.
W h e n y o u h a v e s o m e stoopid idjit gen etic cesspool like Mr. whitetrashbabyneglecter, you've got no idea wh at the dum bfuck
m i g h t h a v e u s e d . C a n ' t b l a m e t h e m for wearing the full gear, it's also probably their depa rtment's SOP. Also agree, they likely
don't get to play with their toys much, and possibly enjoy "doing it up right". Now if they'd brought out the robot and the water
cannon...

To bring out the robot in my area costs them around A$2500 just to m o b i l i z e i t . W e b u i l d s u b u r b s o n e x - b o m b i n g r a n g e s h e r e ,
so she gets a workout. I?m ta lking about rusted artillery shells. The robot is based about 6km from m e.
T h e s e g u y s d o a g o o d j o b . L e a v e t h e m alone to practice in any way possible.
It would be much cheaper to get m e to sit a stick of bang next to the offending item, cover in sand and, ...BANG.
I believe it is good to know that the people dealing with the unexpected, expect it.
Also, for the Aussies, they are not cops here. They are ADF. Australian Defence Force. The Digger watches over us when we
sleep.

And the journalists would be there to sensationalize every move, am plifying the "danger" 100000x . Hmm m , I guess we really
haven't evolved m uch since the days of the collosseum ...

W ell sure I g uess the se officers are doing there job correctly. Ho wever, It seem s obvious that this guy would be using black
powder because of his lack of intellect. Meaning he just wouldn't posses the ability to man ufacture his own explosives. But yes
in the explosives disposal line of work there is no room for error, and safety is a m ust.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Metal additives in dynam ites
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Typical industrial active base dynamite s w e r e o f t e n c o m p o u n d e d with amm onium nitrate a nd various cheap organic fuels/
a b s o r b e n t s s u c h a s w o o d m e a l . T h e a m monium nitrate was said to lower the temperature of explo sion com p a r e d t o t h e a l k a l i
nitrates used in the sam e fashion, and particularly com pared to chlorates or perchlorates. (this information based on Naoum 's
NG & NG explosives). This lower flam e t e m perature was desirable for m any applications, particularly for m in ing where the lower
temperatures were less likely to ignite methane and clouds of flam m a b l e d u s t . ( " p e r m issible" explosives)
I a m interested in conjecturing how to produce the OPPOSITE effect to these perm issible explosive s- A "dynam ite" with a large
hot flam e , p e r h a p s e v e n c a p a ble of giving a visual effect sim ilar to Al/pe rchlorate flash powders. I theorize that the
replacement of part or all of the organic fuel/absorbent used in conventional dynam ite m ixes with Aluminum f l a k e m i g h t
produce this effect. Further, I suspect that Amm onium nitrate might be u nsuitable as the active ba se oxidizer for such a
form ulation due to the lower flame heat attributed to amm onium nitrate active base dynam ites... If these won't ignite
m ethane air mixes or coal dust clouds, they m ight not ignite Alu minum powders effectively either.
To produce such an e ffect, I h y p o t h e s i z e a m ix such as this:
Nitroglycerine----------------50 %
Nitrocellulose------------------3
Potassium perchlorate---------35
Fine flake Al-------------------12
(As the perchlorate and Alum inum wou ld have less ability to hold liquid NG without exudation, it seem s it m ight be desirable to
use NG gelatinized with NC )
Has anyone experience with such a m ix, or any backgro u n d o n N G b a s e d HE's with metal fuel additives? Ca n a n y o n e t h i n k o f
any stablity issues with such a m ix?

If th ese won't ignite methane air m ixes or coal dust clouds, they m ight n ot ignite Alum inum powders effectively eith er.
Yes, but m e t h a n e a i r m i x e s a n d c o a l d u s t c l o u d s h a v e a s m a l l e x p l o s i o n range and they have pretty high ignition

t e m p e r a t u r e s . T h e a l u m inium powder would be m ixed with the AN itself and actually sensitize the AN. Like I pointed out in
another post, extreme caution is required, because AN is an acidic salt. Basic stabilizers will m a k e m atters only worse because
they'll decom pose the AN to NH3, which might than react with the Al, but I'm not sure about that.
I believe Brainfever h as done a bit of testing on this subject here (http://ci.cam bridge.md.us/brainfever/NG5NC5Al-sm all.jpg ).
Boomer April 7th, 2004, 10:02 AM

I once read about blasting gelatine with alum in ium added for higher energy. It decreased Vod slightly but increased gas
pressure and lead block expansion considerably (>700ml IIRC).
Another thing I head was that tritonal (TNT/alu) gives a considerable flash at detonation in the night. I dou bt that a lu with AN
is flashless, but better look in the exploding target threat, it was discussed there. Anyway, alu with a m etal oxidisers will be
brighter - but is K/Na-NO3 not enough, does it have to be perchlorate?

Heavily alum inised explosives do not generally give reliable results in lead block expansions due to increased errosion at the
high er tem peratures...
I wonder if you could just m a k e u p a n orm al flash powder and only slightly m oisten it with NG in order to make it cap sensitive?
Bert April 7th, 2004, 02:56 PM

I once read about blasting gelatine with alum in ium added for higher energy.
C o u l d y o u d i g o u t t h e s o u r c e ? I a s s u m e this would be a blasting gelatine with ONLY some additional Al add ed, the Al reacting
with the wate r vapor from the gelatine's detona tion as it does in TORPEX?
As far as needing perchlorate rather th an an alkali nitrate, I have no idea. But the higher density of the perchlorate is
attractive, and the issue of reactivity of nitrates with fine Al should the mixture be com e d a m p w o u l d a l s o b e a v o i d e d .
The brainfever site shows a BURN test of an Al/NG m ix. No detonation is described? The site had exceeded it's bandwidth
allotment shortly afte r I accessed it.
As far as sim ply adding NG to standard flash, the inform a t i o n I h a v e o n d e t o n a t i n g m i x e s s i m ilar to flash usually call for a
m uch lower ratio of m etal fuel to oxidizer than flash- around 90:10 rathe r 70:30. The addition of NG would change the Oxygen
bala nce in th is direction of course.
As a separate issue, fumed silica (cab-o-sil, C abot M-5) can be used to "gel" liquids. It is a very fine fum ed silicon dioxide- I
h a v e s e e n t h e m ix of silica and Al claim ed to function as a thermite if the reactants are finely enough powdered. Th is leads m e
to speculate that if NC in exce ss of the am ount that could be held by a flash type m ix without exudation were used, an
addition of cab-o-sil m ight result in a non-exuding mixture while actually contributing som ething to the Oxygen balance, rather
than taking away from it as does wood pulp or other hydrocarbon absorbents. Any com ments on the feasibility of this idea?
Has anyone ever TRIED to gel NG with fum ed silica? Cab-o-sil co uld be m ore efficient than diatom aceous earth for the
purpose.

Bert, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve, you want it to look like flash and not be flash, I'm not following. I suspect
the way the altered oxygen balence texts were going, would be to use the explosive to distribute the metal powder into the air,
and have it burn in that asa sort of fuel air exp losion. I think wrench was thinking along similar lines recently. As for fumed
silica, this so unds chemically m ore like a step backwards to kieselguhr. I cant help but think the im purities are going to ruin
the det wave properties of the jelly, no t that I think this m atters to you, but I still dont see why you need a 'classic' det wave
before the flash as opposed to what Al/Perc flash would get you anyway. If you wanted to go slightly less orthodox idea, you
could ditch NG/NC alltogether, mix fine Al and a heavily chlorinated solvent like carbon tet and detonate that.
vulture, my understanding is that Al mixes are not stabilised by making them basic or adding a base, they are usually
stab i l i s e d b y a d d i n g s o m e t h i n g like boric acid, Al being less sensitive to m ild acid t h a n t o m i l d b a s e a n d t h a t f o r m a t i o n o f
base is usually the big threat. My main objection would be the way metal powder m ixes with AN tend to ignite on contact with
water, and that under normal hum idity levels outside AN is deliquescent. My secondary objection would be the way m etal
powders tend to reduce nitrates to am m onia (m ore of a problem with AN than alkali nitrates I would think), though the boric
acid should stop this being a problem on longe r term storage. O n balence staying away from AN/m etal is a better general rule
IMHO .

vulture, my understanding is that Al mixes are not stabilised by making them basic or adding a base, they are usually
stab i l i s e d b y a d d i n g s o m e t h i n g like boric acid, Al being less sensitive to m ild acid t h a n t o m i l d b a s e a n d t h a t f o r m a t i o n o f
base is usually the big threat.
Yup, but AN being m ore acidic and hyg roscopic than boric acid, you always have a problem . Either you add nothing and have
acid reacting with Al, or add basic stabilizers and you ha ve other nasty side reactions.
I agree that AN/m etal powders should be avoid e d u n l e s s a b s o l u t e l y d r i e d a n d s e a l e d f r o m moisture.
If you're using it in a mix with a large NG content, that would probably prevent side reactions, although deg rading NG which
produces NOx and/or HNO3 could ofcourse m a k e m atters worse.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 660 kg of dynamite and 5000
detonators under you r bed?
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S o m eone in Norway h as been a bit light fingered...
6 6 0 k g o f d y n a m i t e a n d 5 0 0 0 d e t o n a t o r s s t o l e n s o m e t i m e in the last week (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/360 2 2 0 9 . s t m )
I'd like to think it's under one of your beds, not in Al Queda's storage locker.
Dam n, 5000 detonators. SCORE!

Holy god, obivously this job was either done by some profession als or so meone with inside conections. Just trying to think
about how difficult it would be to steal 1400 pounds of anything, leads m e to believe that these individuals were hig hly
m o t i v a t e d . I ' m a f r a i d t h a t t h e s e e x p l o s i v e s a r e g o i n g t o b e u s e d h a r m fu lly unless found by the authorities first :(
I m a s s u m i n g t h a t s o m e t y p e o f a m m onium dynam ite was stolen?
Dave Angel April 8th, 2004, 02:07 AM

W ow, unstaffed and with no alarm system, com bined with being in a fairly isolated place. That was just asking to be b r o k e n
into, even with such great security system s a s a f e n c e a nd heavy doors... hm m m .
S h a m e that it looks like it may be linked to terrorists, I guess they don't enjoy th e m a k i n g s t a g e a s m uch as we do .
blindreeper April 8th, 2004, 02:36 AM

" E x p l o s i v e s a r e s o m e thing that terrorists will always be looking for," he said.
No shit :rolleyes: Som etim es I wonder how these reporters got their jobs...

W ell I've kept m y m outh shut on this topic for a few days now to see if there would be any developments o r anything. I have
not seen it m e n t i o n e d o n c e o n t h e n e w s . I ' v e e v e n s e a r c h e d g o o g l e a n d s o f a r t h e o n l y s t o r y I h a v e f o u n d w a s t h e o n e
covered by the BBC. Mabey I'm over reacting but to me this theft seems like a really big deal. It seem s like shit like this
happens, then a few weeks later when people die in a b o m b i n g i n c e d e n t e v e r y o n e w o n d e r s w h a t h a p p e n e d . I t j u s t s e e m s
u n e x c e p t a b l e t h a t m ore isn't being done about this theft, or mabey it is and its just not being talked about?

Far m ore likely is that things like this happen every other day, a nd are totally not news, unless there is a terrorist angle. Just
like the Oz AN theft - big deal! Yes, getting 5000 detonators is kinda neat, but so what? Y ou can't sell the dynam ite to anyone,
and you will have a hell of a job doing anything with tha t sheer amount of stuff without shopping yourself. Let's face it, anyone
who has a decent van or truck could shift that much gear... but where would you store it?
You can't set it off bit by bit, as the cops will be swarming all over you, and if you do one big blast, unless you are attacking
s o m ething, well, what was the point?
Shit like this gets pulled every other day.

unle ss you are attack ing som ething, well, what was the point?
Thats exactly m y p o i n t . W h o e v e r s t o l e t h o s e e x p l o s i v e s m u s t b e plannig to attack som e o n e . A n y o n e w h o s t e a l s 6 6 0 k g o f
anything knows dam m well wh at they were doin g. This wasn't just some teenage kids who got the score of a life time. Also in
m y opion, stealing high explosives alo n g w i t h 5 0 0 0 d e t o n a t o r s s o u n d s l i k e s o m e o n e h a s a l o t m o r e m otive to destroy
s o m ething. With that case in Oz for all they know It cou l d h a v e b e e n s o m e f a r m er that was running a little short on cash. :p By
the way, I never did read what type of high explosives this "dynam ite" was m ade up of. I would im agine Nitrogylcerin and
NH4NO 3.
shadow2501 May 13th, 2004, 08:14 PM

there was another case of this type, 700kg of AN were stolen in a french farm today.I agree with Jack, things like this happens
everyday everywhere in the world.Just have to hope that it's the fault of teenagers that wa nt to believe that they're dangerous
guys or ppl that just want to do their own private giant firework for their o wn entertainm ent.If not,well....we'll hear a great loud
B O O M in som e im portant place,hope it will not happen, not fun at all :(

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > P o t a s h o f A m m onium Nitrate
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aXiate April 8th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Is this stuff pure enough to use straight from t h e p a c k e t o r d o i n e e d t o d o s o m ething to it to purify it?
Hang-Man April 8th, 2004, 07:22 PM

Are you ref erring to Nitrate of P o t a s h ( K N O 3 ) ? D o e s n t m atter, your question is shit. W e don't know what "packet" (which
m a k e s m e think your referring to Amm onium Nitrate cold packs) you got your shit out of or what you want it for. How the
fuck would we know if it s pu re or rather 'pure enough ' for you r m y s t e r y u s e ?
tmp April 9th, 2004, 12:57 AM

aXia te, I've never heard of that one. It would h e l p t o k n o w t h e n a m e o f t h e
company who manufactured it and what it's used for. With the nam e o f t h e
company you could use google.com to do an MSDS search on the product.
In m ost cases the ingredients are liste d there.
aXiate April 9th, 2004, 03:41 AM

sorry ill go and buy som e tom orrow as its real cheap and ill be m ore specific.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > 3.5 tonnes of stolen
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lucas April 9th, 2004, 10:39 AM

OMG. According to the local news, 3.5 tonnes of AN was stolen today. It may likely be a clerical error and not theft, but if it is
theft it's a bit of a concern. Supposedly the AN went missing from and Ad e l a i d e w a r e h o u s e . T h e s t a t e g o v e r n m e n t h as just said
that AN need s to be licenced and restricted. Most things our government says never eventuate, but this lice ncing probably will.
Hopefully this doesnt end up in a big truckbomb going off in the city.

O K , s o s o m e o n e s t e a l s b l o o d y 3 , 5 t o n n e s o f a m m onium nitrate from a warehouse in the m iddle of the city and they have to
consult the b ooks to notice it?
The sheeple wants to be protected by restrictive laws bu t doesn't notice obvious things... :rolleyes:

Blatant evidence that the terrorists will get the m aterials they want for explosives, restrictions or not.
It's the recreational u ser that suffers, and I wouldn't be surprised if restrictions are going to be put in place in the UK after last
weeks raids.
The trouble is, it's all about m a k i n g t h e s h e e p l e f e e l s a fer, rather than a ctually m aking th em safer. Until the great m i n d l e s s
m a s s e s b e c o m e e n l i g h t e n e d ( i e n e v e r ) t h e n r e strictions like this will continue to be pushed through to plea s e t h e m .
shady mutha April 9th, 2004, 07:32 PM

The current hysteria about AN is bordering on the absurd in Australia.
W hy they are ram ping up the terrorist threat so m uch I just don't get.
Journalists in this cou ntry are a disgrace! Printing lies on top of lies, worst part is none of the public even raise thier heads
from the grass.
GibboNet April 9th, 2004, 11:36 PM

Two of the m ajor fertiliser com panies are no longer going to produce / im port AN once their current stocks run out. (In
Australia, just on a news bulliten on Triple J radio...)
I imagine it's purely because they can't be arsed going through and sorting the licences etc that will soon be firmly in place.
angelo April 10th, 2004, 12:30 AM

just the like the firearm laws.
All the responsible sh ooters lose their right to have a firearm in their house, yet shootings have gone up. Funny that

Try to outlaw guns, next thing you kno w we have a massacre. It gave them a reason to re ally push it. Gun laws passed. Try to
outlaw AN, next thing you know we have tonnes of it sto len. A bit too convenient for me. Food for Thought.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Are rockets legal in Australia?
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Stone April 11th, 2004, 05:59 AM

Hey,
I'm just wondering if hom e - m a d e r o c k e t s a r e l e g a l i n O z ? M y l o c a l h o b b y s h o p s e e m s t o s e l l p r e - a s s e m ble d rockets, but are

we allowed to produce our own rockets and fuel and fire them anywhere? Or do we need to do it in specific locations?

I did m odel rocketry for a num ber of years. To my knowledge it was lega l provide d you didn't stick a warhead in the m .
I d o n t t h i n k h o m e m a de rocke ts are legal, however I dont think they'd ca re too m uch provided any testing was well away from a
t h e h u m an p opulation. If you or a friend have a farly large property in th e country then go for it.
phoenix945 April 24th, 2004, 08:03 AM

I called the cops once to ask them if it was legal, they told m e that it wasn't to make your own which produced fire. I am still
goin g to m a k e s o m e but only small in case they explode, the bigger the rocket the bigger the fuck up.
I h a v e h e a r d that using chlorates in a rocket fu el just m akes a bomb with wings, is this correct?
xyz April 24th, 2004, 11:16 PM

No, it's not entirely correct. Som e of our m e m b e r s h a v e h a d a l o t of success with NaClO3/Sugar rockets. However, chlorates are
less trustworthy than other oxidisers (nitrates, perchlora tes) and I wouldn't want to use them in large motors or m otors with
m etal casings.
Basically, chlorates are fine for sm all p aper/cardboard cased rockets, but find another oxidiser for big rockets or me tal cased
ones.
Barcy April 26th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Stone, in answer to your question. R o c k e t s a n d their use is currently legal, so long as the rocket does not exceed 1000ft, than
y o u n e e d s p e c i a l p e r m ission by the de partment of aviation to us them . P r e a s s e m bled rocket engines are still available, but
usually not very powe rful. It is unlawful to m ake such products and instead of asking the police (who say everything is unlawful
and take note of who you are), just refer to the government web sites.
In Q u e e n s l a n d e x p l o s i v e s c o m e u n d e r t h e D e p artment of Natural Resources as they are the licensing body. I can tell you that
rockets are frowned u pon as they have erratic flight paths, this is why pyros have to use m orters in stead of rockets.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Perhaps the dumbest thing
ever with a 25 shot cake!
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http://www.kontraband.com/in d e x . a s p ? p = a n i m s . a s p ? I D = 1 0 3 9
T h i s m ovie features a guy with a crash helm et on gettin g shot by his mates with a 25 shot firework cake. Funniest b it is at the
end, when th e water thrower fails to do his job!
nbk2000 April 12th, 2004, 01:24 PM

This was alre ady posted in another thread. :rolleyes:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > New Identity
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fode April 12th, 2004, 05:02 PM

Sadly I have not tested this m ethod, because it is illegal.
First, you will need to investigate the d eath records from a local library. Y ou will need to find som e o n e w h o h a s d i e d b e f o r e t h e
age of one.
Next, you will need to obtain a death certificate. Here http://www.nationalbirthcertificate.com /death_certificate.htm l
Next, you will need to obtain a birth certificate. Here http://www.nationalb irthcertificate.com /birth_certificate.htm l
Then, you will need to order a Social Security card, it's a little bit tricky.
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduse r/std_adp.php?
p_sid=ijhiMI8h&p_lva=&p_faqid=92&p_created=955487602&p_sp =cF9zcm NoPTEm cF9ncm lk c29ydD0m cF9yb3 d f Y 2 5 0 P T Y 0 M
CZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPTMmcF9jYXR fbHZsMT1_YW 55fiZwX2NhdF9sd mwyPX5hbnl_JnBfcGFnZT0y&p_li=
Now, you can head on over to your local DMV and legally obtain your ID or license . Use them to get your passport or whatever.
Once again. having a false ID and the process of obtaining one, are both illegal.
festergrump April 12th, 2004, 05:35 PM

Sadly I have not tested this m ethod, because it is illegal.
Even m ore sad than that is the fact that this is no longer possible. Social Security numbers are and have been issued at birth
of a child for several years. This used to work when they were only issued when the child b ecam e a juvenile, upon request, I
believe.
Even if this was not the case, all of the United States now report to a federal database ALL DMV records. This including
issuance, accidents, traffic violations, suspensions, ect. Most states also require fingerprinting prior to license, now, and m ost
adult whether convicts or not have already been perm anantly identified a s t h e m s e l v e s .
Another note , most states also require (besides the birth certificate and SS card) two forms of alternate ID. Usually this can be
certified m ail bearing your new assum e d n a m e a n d a d d ress.
O h , I d o b i d y o u g o o d l u c k o n this ven ture of a new identity, my friend. I'm in no way stating that it's not possible, m erely to
try a differen t approach. It sim ply isn't that easy anym ore. :(
randall April 12th, 2004, 11:43 PM

Yes this used to work, but the governm ent m anaged to fix that little problem . I can rem e m ber looking into this and reading
that drivers liscences/ ID cards are now cross referenced with death records. Im not sure how accurate the source was, but it
s e e m s like this new fad of ide ntity theft m ight just work better.

T h i s m ethod does work in the UK because no o ne in births, deaths and marriges section has bothered to invest in a $2 stam p
to detirmine whether its a Duplicate or not.
T h e y a l s o d o n't seem to cross reference with death reco rds to my knowledge.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > slaughterhouse (Question)
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tiac03 April 12th, 2004, 10:31 PM

I was Wondering about chemicals used in slaughterhouses. I live relatively close to a chicken slaughterhouse and sometimes when I go by, their dumpster and the area around
the dumpster is full of white powder/granules. I was reading somewhere that both Sodium nitrate and Sodium chlorate are used in the meat industry (the latter to kill
salmonella). Would anyone here know if it is indeed one of these two chemicals that is being used? (I ask because apart from some cleaning possible impurities (chicken
juices) out of it this would be a great source seeing as it is free and in bulk)
Am I just caught up in wishful thinking or is this possible that i am sitting on a "goldmine"?
(I'm sorry if this is an absolutely stupid question)
wrench352 April 13th, 2004, 12:28 AM

Soooooo,peekin in the dumpsters behind the slaughterhouse huh? You sir are a troubled,troubled man.
My second thought is the white powder is lime to keep the flies away and the smell down.

Id have to admit that Id have given it a peek or two, also. Youre probably right about the lime, Wrench. Ive given thought to using the nitrogen in blood for tempering
a blade before. Im a cheap bastard and it seemed to work for Caligula(never got around to it, though*sigh*)

Ive given thought to using the nitrogen in blood for tempering a blade before.
Ever heard the story about needing 2 oxen and a slave to make a sword? (Hint: You may be able to re-use one of the oxen, but you need a new slave every time)

Ah, yes, re-usednot wasted. If my slave played her cards right she might temper both of my swords. Then I suppose garnished with an apple-gag and slow turned for a
few hours
Really, dumpster diving can produce a lot of useful stuff. Be mindful of what businesses youre searching and youll surely come out ahead. Id definitely be weary of any
company disposing of biomedical material, for instance (unless you make soap, right, Jacks Complete?), but companies often dispose of perfectly good tools, machinery
(which might just need new motor windings), even raw plastic and metal products that can be easily reworked to a useful fashion.
I once lived near an aerosol canning plant that was an absolute HAVEN for silencer parts. Those concave bottoms, you knowcan t beat em!
tiac03 April 13th, 2004, 08:24 PM

Thanks for the Info. Next time I see a pile of it I will take some with a can or something and check it out. I didn't know they were allowed to coat the chicken with lime though
(remember seeing coated chicken meat there when I was younger) (we used to hang around that area alot... hell even got us some chickens from there (they run away alot 1
or 2 per truck)).
Festergrump is right though if you can forget pride, garbage collecting and dumpster diving gets you alot. electronics from Thrown away TV's, radio's, computers, speakers. I've
found aluminum blocks near an aluminum turning "factory" (and turnings/dust), metal from near the train tracks,Tubing (thick paper,metal, aluminum), perfectly good staple
gun, screwdrivers, hammers, [glass, plastic and metal containers of all sorts], etc
I remember one day finding about 30 dollars worth of coins behind a car wash because they would suck up the coins with the vacuums, water washed away most of the crap
and exposed all the coins. (I was about 7-10 at the time so it was a big deal for me.)
Personally my utter cheapness overcomes my pride... (as seen by the topic)
well good hunting...

Perhaps I misread your question.I think the obvious resolution to this is to knock on the office door and ask. "Hey,I'm curious,whats that white stuff all over the place by the
dumpster?",or failing that try and catch somebody throwing stuff out and ask em then.
They wouldnt coat the chicken in lime,it would taste vile.They maybe would use lime to again keep the smell down around the dumpster(assuming lots of blood and bits of
chicken) and the flies away.

All I know is I wouldn't want to be eating poultry that has been contaminated with NaClO3.
tiac03 April 14th, 2004, 12:05 AM

yea I guess chewing on sodium chlorate everytime you went to KFC would suck.
although they use sodium nitrite in meat curing and that is toxic too so you never know what they are capable of...
well I will just have to grab some of the chemical one day and test it out, then guess about what it can be then. Thank you all for your input.
kingspaz April 15th, 2004, 06:46 PM

i wouldn't want to eat a chicken coated in NaClO3 either. but theres no mention of that in the thread. lime = CaO
i'd imagine it is used since it reacts with water, drying the surface of the chicken chunks, thus making it smell ALOT less.

Oy,
well, we use it(lime) to dry up horse piss or it will reek of ammonia in short time.Although I am no expert, its my belief the ammonia is a byproduct of bacteria eating the
nitrogen in the urine. Same with chicken blood,its full of protein(lots of nitrogen).Try this experiment sometime,take some bloodmeal(dried chickenblood) add some water,let
sit for a couple days.It should reek of ammonia,at least this was my experience.Again Im not sure of the reasonings but lime will not only dry out the blood but also,because its
very basic,alters the ph. I guess by doin this it prevents the bacteria from colonizing.Theres different kinds of lime Im told so you might not get pure CaO,which can be very
useful itself :)
The jerky I eat is loaded with sodium nitrate,I dunno bout sodium chlorate,but I'll give tiac the benefit of the doubt.Hey isnt that weedkiller too?Hmm.
tiac03 April 15th, 2004, 09:37 PM

I asked about it because I know that Sodium chlorate is used to kill salmonella but I wondered if they actually used it in the actual "shop". They have done studies where they
mix small doses into the last meal of animals, so i wondered if they actually sprayed or coated chicken in it then washed it off afterwards/ or just covered the area with it to kill
off any lingering bacteria. Looking deeper into the subject it seems highly unlikely that they do.(although I havn't been able to find a list of chemicals used in the slaughter
industry) (really not too easy to find info on the web anymore... everyone either wants to sell you stuff or link you to a site where they sell stuff...)
When fed in low doses, sodium chlorate kills Salmonella typhimurium and Escherichia coli O157:H7 in pigs and cows. Agricultural Research Service scientists in College Station,
Texas, have shown that levels of these harmful bacteria can be reduced in the intestinal tract of pigs and cows if they're given sodium chlorate before slaughter.
And yeah sodium chlorate is used in pesticides from what I was reading. (I said sodium nitrate and nitrite is used to keep the meat red in dryed stuff like jerky. I didn't say Na-
chlorate was.)[once again no experiece with meat curing all information from sites that I was looking for info about the chemicals on]
Hang-Man April 16th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Sodium Chlorate is water soluble and is used as a weed killer. Not a winning combination for something you want to put on your food.
Sodium Nitrate is Saltpetre, and is not used to cure meat (I heard it was used for 'pickleing beef' but I can't confirm that.
Sodium Nitrite is however, it's also used to prevent corrosion
tiac03 April 16th, 2004, 01:52 AM

Sodium nitrate (NaNO3) and its close relative sodium nitrite (NaNO2) are preservatives that you find in lots of processed meats. Stuff like salami, hot dogs, pepperoni, bologna,
ham, bacon and SPAM all normally contain sodium nitrate as one of the ingredients. Fresh meats generally do not contain any added chemicals, so the question is, "Why is
sodium nitrate added to all of these processed meats?"
There are two reasons for adding these chemicals to processed meats:
They preserve the color of the meat (meaning that it looks pink like SPAM rather than gray like cooked hamburger). You have probably noticed that nearly all meats that
contain sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite remain pink or red even though they are cooked during processing.
These chemicals inhibit botulism to some degree.
The jury is out on how harmful these substances are. Sodium nitrite reacts with stomach acid and other chemicals in the stomach to produce nitrosamines, which have been
shown to cause cancer in animals when consumed in large quantities. However, there's not much sodium nitrate/nitrite in meats, and we consume sodium nitrate/nitrite from
other foods as well, so it is not clear that they are harmful in the quantities we get from meats. Some people recommend that small children and pregnant women avoid these
chemicals altogether just to be safe. Since neither canned chicken nor tuna have any redness to protect, they generally do not contain nitrates.
answers everyone's question.... damned "howstuffworks", damned it to hell.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Ghost town
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This is an interesting read- What it's like after a nuclear incident/accident.
Ghost Town (http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/)
steyr April 13th, 2004, 09:07 AM

It's good. Mysterious... It ended so fast, leaving secrets after.
Maybe someone can rip it to PDF, upload to ftp and post here?

Wow. That really makes you wonder. There are nuclear plants all over the place... What would you do? Would you even know? At least the people on this site would know
what was happening...
Utterly aweing.

An interesting read, indeed. Thanks, Bert.
Once again Im proven wrong there really IS a place on Earth migrating niggers cannot ruin the property value of. :D
NightStalker April 13th, 2004, 03:01 PM

What I find interesting is that the core material is buried in the town cemetery, waiting for retrieval and extraction of the plutonium by someone with an expendable workforce.
:D

Thats an interesting point, Nightstalker, but dont you think Ms. Elenas movements were monitored via satellite during her little ventures? The checkpoints might be to
keep the unknowing from harms way or from bringing polluted artifacts out, but the entire site will surely be watched more closely from above.
How would you go about covertly extracting the weapons-grade plutonium unnoticed? I believe there are some wonderfully developed minds here at the Forum who could
collectively (and, of course, theoretically) pull it off.
My thoughts are of tunneling, maybe (?!). Could this be feasible? I'd also rely more on radiation protection than expendible forces to breech and extract from the site. (I'm
clueless, though, to the limits of such radiation-proof gear needed for such an operation).

What an incredible read. This little girl seem wise beyond her years.
What a sad story indeed.
I can see the steam from a nuclear reactor on a good day.......i just so happens it is a very famous reactor which almost became the "second" meltdown in the world.
The first reactor disaster being the National Reactor Testing Station in Idaho Falls, Idaho on Jan 3 1961. The reactor expoded killing three workers, impaling one against the
roof of the containment building with a control rod.
mesmashy April 14th, 2004, 08:28 AM

Freaky,just looking out on to the street now and imagining empty empty streets,grass/weeds growin from storm drains,derelict buildings and complete silence....freaky. Fair
play to that girl,i have to admit througout all my dreams i never thought of goin for stroll through a desolite urban landscape it must have been cool.....(with respect
unfortunate victims) :(

I seriously doubt anyone is going to get to remove the waste dumped in that graveyard.
Not without a battlemecha or remote working drone type of thing, plus enough armour and weapons to stop the Russian army dropping a few tonnes of bombs on your head.
Let these dead lie, I think.

What I find interesting is that the core material is buried in the town cemetery, waiting for retrieval and extraction of the plutonium by someone with an expendable workforce.
IIRC, besides the stuff that got blown into the air, the reactor core is still present in the reactor building. What's the point of building a sarcophagus when there's no more shit in
there? How the hell could they have moved a boiling hot reactor core that'll radiate the fuck out of anyone, protective clothing or not?

The stuff buried in the graveyard was said to be graphite moderator/matrix blocks and whatever crap got stuck to these during the explosion and meltdown. The melted down
core is down below the sarcophagus, possibly slowly moving towards China...
(edit)
Here's a bit more info on what's in Chernobyl #4's basement (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1997/chernobyl/33005.stm) And a drawing of the dammage (http://
www.uic.com.au/graphics/chernowreck2.gif)
Zeitgeist April 14th, 2004, 11:54 PM

How the hell could they have moved a boiling hot reactor core that'll radiate the fuck out of anyone, protective clothing or not?
By sending lots of expendable grunts to their deaths....
As she mentions, the sarcophagus is breaking down, they really need to repair it soon
kingspaz April 15th, 2004, 06:51 PM

IIRC the core is 2miles down in the rock. i don't think it would still be reacting since if it had a meltdown the fuel would be gone reasonably fast.
tiac03 April 15th, 2004, 10:21 PM

Definately must be awsome to walk around those deserted streets. And all those vehicules just sitting there rotting away...
surprisingly deep though (even without the amazing pictures)

I admire those people, because each of them is a philosopher in their own way. When you ask if they are afraid, they say that they would rather die at home from radiation,
than die in an unfamiliar place of home-sickness. They eat food from their own gardens, drink the milk of their cows and claim that they are healthy.....but the old man is one
of only 400 that have survived this long. He may soon join his 3,100 neighbors that rest eternally in the earth of their beloved homes. It appears that the people with the most
courage were the first to die here. Maybe that is true everywhere.
senjoronie April 21st, 2004, 02:57 AM

Steyr suggested ripping the web site to PDF and uploading it to the FTP, so I took the liberty of doing so. PDFs were created with Adobe Acrobat 5.0 and compressed with
WinRAR 3.0, in case there was any confusion.
steyr April 21st, 2004, 11:25 AM

Ya, ya, I've made it, but I didn't uploaded it to the ftp. I can't upload anything, and I don't have account....
Efraim_barkbit April 21st, 2004, 02:39 PM

Its kind of like my town during a early summer morning, you could walk across the whole town, without seeing anyone.
It is a strange feeling, just like it would be completely deserted, espescially when the sun has got up enough to give a good lightning to the scene.
megalomania April 21st, 2004, 03:19 PM

An interesting story, but no way in hell would I tempt fate by taking an idle stroll through a hot zone :(
vulture April 21st, 2004, 03:41 PM

Here's a bit more info on what's in Chernobyl #4's basement And a drawing of the dammage
The pictures in the first link don't work for me. :(
Chernobylite, intruiging... :D
Crystals formed under extreme conditions could have stunning properties. Maybe even commercial potential.
I feel a madscience vibe coming up... :o
Anthony April 22nd, 2004, 02:15 PM

I did a bit of googling for more information on chernobyl, (particularly about the chunk of core melting its way down into the Earth's crust - very cool, but haven't found any
references yet) and some of the facts are quite surprising.
The sources are good, being UN and WHO studies. Examples of things I didn't know:
Only 30 people have died as a direct result of the disaster. 10 of those were killed whilst working during the initial explosion. I was given the impression that hundreds/
thousands of helicopter pilots, firemen and cleanup workers had all died of radiation poisoning?
The only real health impact is increased cases of thyriod cancer in children. Although it is not normally fatal.
The other reactors at the plant were restarted and continued to make power untill only 2003, when the whole plant was decomisioned. Indeed the main reason for building the
concrete shield around Unit-4 was to allow continued operation of the plant. 6000 people continued to work at the plant, and their radiation exposure was within European
safety limits.
A small team also work within the shield, in the recked reactor itself.
So is the whole place that dangerous?
senjoronie April 22nd, 2004, 03:54 PM

Only 30 people have died as a direct result of the disaster. 10 of those were killed whilst working during the initial explosion. I was given the impression that hundreds/
thousands of helicopter pilots, firemen and cleanup workers had all died of radiation poisoning?
As I understood it, 31 people died immediately, followed by some unknown (possibly thousands) number later. If the deaths were radiation-related they were in that sense a
direct result of the accident.
So is the whole place that dangerous?
Apparently just visiting isn't that bad, and maybe not even working there, but I sure wouldn't want to live in Pripyat or nearby and be exposed 24/7. And who knows what the
long-term effects on the workers will be?
I've tried looking around for better pictures of the core and accident site, but good sources seem to be lacking.
nbk2000 April 22nd, 2004, 07:25 PM

It's the enviro-freaks boogeyman of RADIATION! :eek: that scares people shitless for no reason.
Yes, rads is hazardous, but no more so than a thousand other things we use everyday and yet somehow manage to survive exposure too, like ELECTRICITY!. :p
Flake2m April 23rd, 2004, 08:30 AM

Alot of people would have died because the meltdown sent a huge plume of radioactive dust and smoke into the air. They would have breathed that in and died from radiation
poisioning.
This nuclear accident is the primary reason that people seem to fear nuclear power so much. People remember Chernobyl and since they know bugger all about nuclear power
= bad.
Russian designed nuclear reactors are also considered more flawed then American designs. Russian built reactors have also been known to have shoddy workmanship.
vulture April 23rd, 2004, 10:48 AM

The reactor design of Chernobyl was A PIECE OF CRAP. All these BMRK water moderated reactors have endless flaws. The few fail safe mechanisms they had can easily be
overrided, which is exactly what happened at Chernobyl.
Furthermore, the reactors only have one hull, contrary to the double walled/seperated cooling circuit design of western reactors. The hull also was made up of many segments,
instead of a one piece steel reinforced concrete dome, which can keep much more pressure.
EDIT: That's also why the EU has been pumping heaps of money into eastern european countries to pay for getting rid of these unsafe reactors built during the Soviet era.
It's the enviro-freaks boogeyman of RADIATION!
Tell me about it... It's like the people that are afraid of powerline and cell phone radiation, but happily smoke ten cigs a day. :rolleyes:
Bert April 23rd, 2004, 12:54 PM

Russian designed nuclear reactors are also considered more flawed then American designs. Russian built reactors have also been known to have shoddy workmanship.
Yesterday, I was looking at video of the inside of the 3 mile island reactor. More than half of the core's fuel rods were laying at the bottom of the reactor vessel in a twisted,
partialy melted heap, like a pile of twisted up straws. The came within a couple of minutes of a complete melt down.
OT, but here's a couple of weapons related sites- Want to see what a working nuclear weapons production facility looks like inside?
Dimona photos (http://www.nonviolence.org/vanunu/photos.html)
And here's a bit of background on the facility.
Dimona nuclear weapons production facility (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/dimona.htm)
And the FAQ, to let you understand what you're seeing:
Carey Sublette's nuclear weapons FAQ (http://www.saunalahti.fi/voas0560/nwfaq/Nfaq0.html)
vulture April 23rd, 2004, 02:13 PM

To this day, the Israeli government refuses international inspection of Dimona and continues to deny the existence of its nuclear arsenal.
Alongside with their failure to comply with a few dozen UN resolutions...
Experts estimate that Israel has about 200-300 more or less immediatly deployable weapons. The new submarines Isreal wants to acquire would allow it to gain "the tripod":
Air, land and submarine based nuclear weapons.
More than half of the core's fuel rods were laying at the bottom of the reactor vessel in a twisted, partialy melted heap, like a pile of twisted up straws. The came within a
couple of minutes of a complete melt down.
True, but because of adequate design, there was no steam explosion, no ignition of the moderator and no hull failure, which contained the radiation.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > How to increase your AP yield...
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ikbendirk April 14th, 2004, 02:17 PM

To some people, the yield of TriCycloAcetonePeroxide is always low. there is one reason to blame for this: the reaction is an equilibrium. the reaction only converts some
amount of the recources to the material you want to create, the remainder remains un affected. [in fact, they do react, but at a certain point there will be as much H2O2 &
acetone converted to AP, as the other way around, the rxn has reached an 'dynamic balance']
so the reaction would become:

H+
3 C3H6O + 3 H2O2 <=> C9H18O6 + 3 H2O
the K is defined by:

3
[C9H18O6][H2O]
K = ----------------
33
[C3H6O] [H2O2]
This means in normal terms:

to increase your yield; increase the concentration of precursors [H2O2;C3H6O], or decrease the concentration of your products [C9H18O6;H2O].
this finally explains why using a significantly higher percentage H2O2 increases your yield greatly; there is less water added, so the concentration of the water is lower; thus the
concentration of the products is lower; thus the equilibrium moves to the right.
If you want to increase your yield even more, the thing you MUSTN'T do is add more H2O2, as you only add 30% H2O2 and add 70% H2O, moving the equilibrium to the left.
this is the last thing you want to happen.
instead, there are two practical solutions to the problem:
- you add way more acetone. Not all will be used, but it helps to shift the equilibrium to the right. when you're done, you can add more H2O2 if you like, but dont
forget the concentration of water is ever increasing doing so, moving the equilibrium to the left.
-The other thing you can do is decrease the products concentration. The water is hard to remove, but the AP is very easily removable. Just filter it out of the solution,
and whatever you do DO NOT THROW THE RESIDU AWAY!!! As the AP is removed, the rxn is trying to achieve its balance and the equilibrium well shoot to the right,
creating more and more AP :cool:
Hope this helped to increase your yield :)

you add way more acetone. Not all will be used, but it helps to shift the equilibrium to the right.
This will have an adverse effect because the AP will start to redissolve in the reaction mixture.
The other thing you can do is decrease the products concentration. The water is hard to remove, but the AP is very easily removable. Just filter it out of the solution,
and whatever you do DO NOT THROW THE RESIDU AWAY!!! As the AP is removed, the rxn is trying to achieve its balance and the equilibrium well shoot to the right,
creating more and more AP
Won't work either. The AP already precipitated from the reaction mixture and effectively removed itself from it by doing that. Filtering won't do shit.
K = [C9H18O6][H2O]3 / [C3H6O]3[H2O2]3
One thing that'll work to shift the equilibrium to the right is proper cooling, as the formation of AP is exothermic. However, cooling reduces reaction speed, which is a whole
different matter, but not to be neglected.
matjaz April 14th, 2004, 06:25 PM

K = [C9H18O6][H2O]3 / [C3H6O]3[H2O2]3
We were even told in the school to omit the solid from the expression in cases like this, leaving one with
K = [H2O]3 / [C3H6O]3[H2O2]3.
I'd only keep the AP in the expression to account for the tiny bit of AP dissolved in the dilute remaining acetone (?). Anyway, it supports your point, Vulture. Liquids don't matter
much in a gasseous reaction, so don't solids when precipitated from solutions. Filtering doesn't remove the dissolved AP here.
BUT...! What if I add ice water before filtering, thus lowering the solubility of AP in the mix of solvents. Then filter, then... Hehe. Anyone got the nerve to boil the filtered liquor
to a high conc again? ;) Shit, dimeric AP would start to form while cooking the soup... :( Unless the acetone would be all boiled off... And added again only after chilling...
Whoa. I'm out of my poor chemistry here... Help anyone?
a_bab April 15th, 2004, 06:47 AM

Well, when I make AP, I only use 30 % H2O2. What initially is a liquid turns into a clump of AP crystals and some liquid.
Here (http://www25.brinkster.com/uploads777/guest/ap.htm) are some pictures.
Now that's what I would call good yield.
Anthony April 15th, 2004, 02:10 PM

Hehe. Anyone got the nerve to boil the filtered liquor to a high conc again? ;) Shit, dimeric AP would start to form while cooking the soup... :( Unless the acetone would be all
boiled off... And added again only after chilling...
Why would you add more acetone after boiling?
Anyway, excluding AN based explosives (and similar), AP has got to be one of the cheapest and most easily prepared explosives going. So why worry about that last 1-2%
dissolved in the reactants?
Squeezing out the last few drops efficiency wise is worthwhile when something is either very expensive, or you're producing it in large quantities.
You only need a few grams to make blasting caps...
Ibanez_90 December 10th, 2006, 10:22 AM

Is it safe to filter AP more than once? I mean, everybody seems to throw a way the liquid part, what havent form to solid AP...
NitroKaBooM January 5th, 2007, 09:35 AM

Well.. Some years ago I made many pounds of AP and with great results! My advices are:
1- Use 30% H2O2 (3% still works but with very low yelds)
And, despite many other people, I've found that:

2- Pure H2SO4 gives higher yelds then HCL, but I suggest you to keep your mixture *cold* while adding the acid!
Hope this can help
knowledgehungry January 6th, 2007, 12:08 AM

Well.. Some years ago I made many pounds of AP and with great results! My advices are:
1- Use 30% H2O2 (3% still works but with very low yelds)
And, despite many other people, I've found that:

2- Pure H2SO4 gives higher yelds then HCL, but I suggest you to keep your mixture *cold* while adding the acid!
Hope this can help
I hope that you didn't make these "many pounds of AP" at one time. If you did you truely have no idea how lucky you are to be in the land of the living.
I should just put this as my sig because of how many times I have been forced to say it:mad: , if you make large amounts of AP it is only a matter of time until you have an
accident and you die.
Cobalt.45 January 6th, 2007, 01:02 AM

I cringe every time I read the same things in re "AP". Yes, 30% H2O2 is better than 3%. Yes, H2SO4 and HCL will both get the job done. Yes, keep the solution cold. Yes, it's
sensitive. Etc., etc., etc...
The subject should be locked unless there's something new or constructive to be added, IMHO.
Last time I dreamt of making it, I added a drop of red food coloring. Turned it pink.
Pitiful that this is the only "new" thing having to do with the stuff that I know of. I promptly used it, so I have no idea if the food coloring effects the compound after about
three hours, so don't do it unless you're into pain (possibly).

The problem is with people who can't be bothered to UTFSE and expect a spoonfeeding, not with the thread.
The thread will remain open as there is always the off-chance someone will come up with something new.
SafetyLast January 9th, 2007, 07:14 PM

I don't even know why I'm bothering to post to this mundane and repetitive topic, but once upon a time when I ran out of my usual 31% pool HCl I used about twice as much
of a toilet bowl cleaner called "The Works" which is about 15% HCl. The result was my AP was light blue when it was filtered. Now mind you this was years ago when I was
KeWl and didn't care much as to what other chemicals could have been in it that might have reacted and contaminated my batch. "cringe"
When the filtrate was washed with a bicarb solution the blue coloring disappeared.
Maybe a few an acid indicator such as Methyl Red could be added to the soln. to indicate the presence of the acid, when it is neutralized with bicarb the color would disappear.
knowledgehungry January 10th, 2007, 12:11 AM

The biggest myth about AP is that you need to neutralize all the acid, organic peroxides are more stable in an acidic enviroment than a basic one. The best thing is to rinse the
AP with water several times, andmaybe a small amount of sodium carbonate to netralize some of the acid(so your AP is not Hydroscopic or corrosive). You do not want it to be
basic.
sparkchaser January 10th, 2007, 06:16 AM

The last time I dreamt of making AP, HCl acid would have been used. After a good filtration I was thinking of adding a little bicarbonate to the filtrate. I was thinking that
neutralizing the acid (slowly to prevent overheating in an ice bath) would precipitate a little more.
In my mind's eye, I saw a sudden increase in suspended particles that didn't float on water after final filtration the way that TATP would. These particles were exceedingly fine,
and much less sensitive to heat and shock than TATP. Upon ignition, however, the deflagration was still very violent. With containment, detonation occured.
Any ideas on this mystery particulate? Could it just be TATP that's less sensitive because of the fine particle size?
knowledgehungry January 10th, 2007, 05:35 PM

Smaller particle size definitely will reduce the sensitivity of AP, but it could be DPPP ;) :p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Black book of arso n by Lyle
W hitney
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Ropik April 14th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Anyone has this book? I consider buying it and I was not able to find any review or som ething similar, so i R EALLY GREATLY
appreciate any hints and tips about contents, weaknesses, etc. Anything
Thank very much
Ropik May 3rd, 2004, 12:08 PM

I t l o o k s l i k e t h a t I c a n n o t o b t a i n t h i s b o o k b e c a u s e i t c a n n o t b e s e n d t o S K : m a d : . I am r e a l l y p i s s e d o f f : m a d : . G o v e r n m e n t
denied it :m a d : .
D a m n e d g o v e r n m e n t a n d d a m ned terrorist!
W hy they do NOT use explosives for fun, but for harming people?
I h a t e t h e m :m ad: !
! :m ad: KILL THE TER R O R I S T I C A L K E W LS :m ad: !
jelly May 3rd, 2004, 04:21 PM

Ropik:
If it's so important to you, why don't you send the m oney to a nice interested forum ite who wants to buy the book, scan it in ,
m ake a PDF, send it to you via eMail and finally upload it to the FTP for all other forumites?
john_smith May 4th, 2004, 04:31 AM

Can't help with the book, but you might check out "Fire arson investigation manual" on the FTP.
Edit: found som e related articles: http://www.arson-codes.com /r&a/index.shtm l , d o e s a n y b o d y h a v e a n i d e a h o w t o r i p t h o s e ? I

can't install a pdf printer on this fucking school com puter.
Edit #2: you might try have a look at these links as well: http://www.dfendyourself.com /link_directory/
arso n_investigation_fire_police.htm l
Ropik May 4th, 2004, 04:31 AM

Because I'm f r o m S K a n d s e n d i n g m oney to USA or sim ilar country... It would be pretty expensive.
But if somebody will scan it and put it on FTP, I will remem ber him in my prayers.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > In search of opinions...APWAX?
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Call me crazy, but here goes.
I have done the searches and read a ton, the mods can track my progress I am sure. :D I am not finding precisely w hat I am looking for. I may need a lesson in optimum use
of the proffered search feature so for obvious reasons, I am depositing this in the 'cooler'.
I find a number of topics relating to ANWAX and it's various derivatives and some vaguely on topic information relating to soft or gelled waxes.
I would like opinions on the viability of saturating the gel wax with as much AP as it can take. I then have ideas to use this as a booster under the guise that AP will be much
less volatile (theoretically) suspended in a buffer gel. I also am theorizing that an AP booster may have a longer shelf life in this configuration. Furthermore, at lower
temperatures the w ax is more solid and less prone to shifting adding another theoretical layer of 'protection'.
Could this increase the shockw ave having no air voids? Could the wax detonate or just deflagrate?
1g AP cap -->20g APWAX booster --> (whatever you choose)
All this theorizing depends on the solubility of AP in the gel wax. I have read over the patent information, but it's over my head. I'll be the first to admit I am no letter-laden
scientist so my knowledge is VERY limited in chemistry. I know there are learned souls here that could make mincemeat of my theories and I am prepared for it.
I am also aware that there are other forms of material to be used as boosters, but it will take some experience before I attempt anything more intense than AP at this time.
The follow ing is quoted from the patent: United States Patent 5,879,694 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u= /netahtml/
srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,879,694.WKU.&OS= PN/5,879,694&RS=PN/5,879,694)
....
Transparent stiff gel candles comprising a hydrocarbon oil, a wick, and one or more triblock, radial block or multiblock copolymer of a thermoplastic rubber, and optionally a
diblock copolymer.
An article of manufacture comprising a candle, said candle consisting essentially of a gel consisting essentially of from about 70% to about 98% by w eight of a hydrocarbon oil,
and from about 2% to about 30% by weight of a triblock copolymer, and having a w ick in said gel, and said candle optionally containing one or more additives selected from
the group consisting of an antioxidant, stabilizer, fragrance, colorant, insect repellent, and flame retardant.
This invention relates to candles in the form of firm gels, and more particularly to stiff heterophase, thermally reversible mineral oil gels, preferably white oil gels. The candles of
the invention contain block copolymers and blends thereof, the copolymers being preferably derived from styrene-rubber block units. The candles are naturally transparent and
uncolored. Optionally, the candles may be colored with one or more colors, and may contain embedded and/or external ornamental features, as well as fragrances and
functional additives.
Any input is w elcome.
THErAPIST April 16th, 2004, 03:24 AM

I've plasticised AP with wax many times when i still experimented. From what I've found the oily, soft- w ax is the best kind of w ax to use. The gel kind of wax has to be
heated for it to be in a liquid state... if its not heated it's like gelatin. If you try to kneed the gelatin kind of wax it just breaks into clumps, it wont hold any AP unless its heated
up and dripped onto the AP... which of course isnt the greatest of ideas. The seemingly oil based soft wax is easy to use, AP and the wax are kneeded together slowly with
gloved hands. The ap doesnt dissolve or anything. While density may be higher, the individual crystals are insulated and cussioned from each other so velocity is a bit lower. If
too much AP is mixed in the wax w on't even hold together and it just crumbles appart.
Velocity can be made a tad higher if something like NC is added, but then there has to be a balance where theres enough AP in the wax to detonate the NC, but not so much AP
or NC (or both) so that the wax gets crumbly.
It's extremely easy to set off though, which is a good thing, and if its warm outside you can stick it to things. If its cold outside, if you kneed it enough to warm it up a buit it
sticks to things even better. A blasting cap can be as small as .25g pressed into a drinking straw (in my experiments). Upon detonation there is a bit of smoke, and instead of a
boom the noise is more of a hollow sounding pop/bang.
It is easier, and SLIGHTLY safer to store, but it contains AP so storage isn't a good idea. DDNP would be much better suited for this application. Wax is also an alright w ay to help
bulk out a booster charge
matjaz April 16th, 2004, 03:36 AM

MightyQueen,
my experimental dreams on apwax w ere never very successful. If I used too much w ax, it just burnt fiercely, much like BP. With little w ax it does detonate but loses the
consistence of putty and falls apart.
Every possible AP/wax mix I tried was way less brisant than pressed AP (tested on a steel w itness plate). It was probably more resistant to mechanical ignition, though. I w as
surprised, too, since I assumed that the wax filled empty space should help propagate the shockw ave.

It might be worth while looking into the use of liquid beeswax. The product I bought contained 80% volatile hydrocarbons, I think it was the wax dissolved in kerosene so it can
probably be replicated cheaply.
You could easily mix the AP in with this and allow the volatiles to evaporate, though how hard the resulting product w ill be will naturally depend on the particular wax. My wax
was quite hard after the volatiles had evaporated, but then it was in an unheated room in winter. At room temperature it became softer and could possibly be acceptable for
your purposes.
hinz October 10th, 2004, 09:04 AM

I think it w on't work, because AP has a low oxygen balance(something arround -150%) . If you add wax,(w itch contains H and C atoms) you will lower the oxygen balance. If
the oxygen balance is too low, your APWAX w on't detonate, it will burn. It's because your APWAX need the oxygen of the air.
kddflx October 11th, 2004, 12:14 AM

If the oxygen balance is too low, your APWAX won't detonate, it will burn. It's because your APWAX need the oxygen of the air.
... Are you saying that if an explosive's oxygen balance is too low it wont detonate but w ill only burn? What about explosives like lead azide? .. I dont even know how one'd go
about finding the OB of that...
On second thought, I always thought a detonation was just the explosive burning with atoms within the molecule extreemly fast. So aren't all detonations burnings? :p
Learn to use the board features properly, eh? ;)
metafractal October 14th, 2004, 10:31 AM

No, hinz is correct. I'm surprised someone didn't bring this up earlier --
Acetone Peroxide is already highly oxygen deficient, and to add a hydrocarbon to it w ill kill its power if it doesn't make it undetonable.
But rather than speculate, I'll do some calculations:
AP on its own requires ten and a half moles of oxygen from the atmosphere to detonate:
C9H18O6 + 10.5O2 ---> 9CO2 + 9H2O
Lets say you add an equal proportion by w eight of wax to the AP. For simplicity, call the wax a longish hydrocarbon, like C20H42. This means that you are adding about 0.8
moles of wax per mole of AP (mw (AP)/mw(Wax)).
C9H18O6 + 0.8C20H42 + 38O2 ---> 25CO2 + 26H2O
For the same weight of waxed AP, 38 mol of oxygen is now required. That's 3.6 times as much! The pow er in an explosive lies in its being able to quickly recombine into lower-
energy products. But, now the AP must wait for more oxygen from the atmosphere to enter the area before it can recombine(sp?). Ideal explosives (like EGDN) require ZERO
moles of oxygen to detonate, as the molecule supplies it all itself.
Detonation is not burning, either. It is a distinctly different process which involves shockwave disassociation of molecules and recombination into low er-energy molecules, often
in combination with oxygen, to release large amounts of energy quickly. Lead azide is a non-oxidative explosive, and so oxygen ballance is not applicable to it.
You *could* add an oxidizer to better (albeit not correct) this situation, but I hate the idea of kneeding explosive organic peroxides in the first place, let alone adding a sensitizer
to it and kneeding it.
Just use AP with nitrocellulose , like everyone does. Using an energetic binder helps the OB, instead of making it worse. The more nitrated the cellulose is, the better, but ping-
pong plastic works just fine.
Anthony October 14th, 2004, 02:41 PM

If acetone peroxide requires atmospheric oxygen to detonate, why will it happily detonate in a sealed container (e.g blasting cap), or underwater?
kddflx October 14th, 2004, 05:07 PM

I think there may be a mis-understanding here about the wax. Is the wax a filler or an actual component of the detonation reaction?
Metalfractal, I thank you for clarifing detonation mechanics to me, and I have to agree that the math is correct. How ever, the math doesn't apply here if the w ax doesn't even
detonate...
I mean, not only have I never heard of w ax being combustible in the detonation sense, but the purpose of the wax isn't properly defined here. Is it a binder? Or maybe a
desensitizer? I think I saw in a thread a w hile ago that somebody added Baking Soda as a filler with AP. It was dismissed because although it did stretch the suply, it didn't really
make a difference in it's performance(although it would probably reduce the brissancy because the energy w ould be spent moving the Soda).
Relating back to the first post, I say that the w ax is like the baking soda of the mentioned post, it justs sit there in the mix, only changing the physical properties of the AP mix.
xyz October 15th, 2004, 04:49 AM

The w ax is a binder and also helps to cushion the AP crystals against shock, desensitizing the AP.
Due to the fact that AP is already oxygen deficient, the w ax does not get involved in the detonation. (But if an explosive with excess oxygen was used then yes it would, like in
the case of ANWAX)
Baking soda or other fillers are sometimes added to AP to "cut" it so that you get more, this is usually only used for salutes as "cut" detonators w ill be very unreliable. Personally
I would avoid baking soda due to it's alkalinity, AP likes to have a neutral pH and acids/bases sensitize it. I use KNO3, which I have found actually seems to increase the noise
and destructive capability of the salutes. I use 25% AP and 75% fine KNO3 powder if anyone is interested. I hypothesise that the KNO3 increases the power because it provides
the extra oxygen that the AP needs to detonate. I once did an OB calculation on the mixture and IIRC a 25/75 mix was almost perfect.
I would however consider this mixture unsuitable for detonators as although it seems to be more powerful, it is noticeably less brisant (it makes a loud bang instead of a sharp
crack like straight AP) and would therefore not initiate seconday explosives reliably.
Sorry, I got a little off topic describing the APPN mix, but I hope the first part of my post can clear things up
metafractal October 16th, 2004, 04:32 AM

Thanks for clarifying that xyz. I had just assumed that anyithing intimately mixed with a high explosive would detonate. I'm sure that some of it detonates, but your probably
right in saying that most of it doesn't. Nonetheless, it is still certain that adding a wax to AP will decrease its power. After all, the wax certianly does not stay in hydrocarbon
form - it still ends up H2O and CO2, only not by detonation, apparently. This just means that the combustion of the wax releases even less energy than if it were to detonate
with the AP. Or am I confusing myself and everyone else?
How does AP detonate in a closed space? Hmmm... Well, I assume (though this is pure speculation) that it goes something like this:
1. AP comes into contact w ith flame
2. AP is able to undergo DDT w ith the oxygen it supplies itself
3. Shockw ave ruptures container, and AP is in contact with the atmosphere before the detonation has completed OR the deflagration of AP before the DDT ruptures the
container.
Anthony October 16th, 2004, 07:43 AM

And if the charge is completely submerged underw ater, and never breaks the surface?
Are we sure that oxygen-deficient explosives don't simply produce less oxidised by-products? E.g carbon monoxide, rather than carbon dioxide, etc
xyz October 17th, 2004, 06:08 AM

I'm with Anthony on this one, an oxygen deficient explosive produces less-oxidised products upon detonation. There are cases w here these products will be hot enough to
continue oxidising using atmospheric oxygen (such as the dirty black fireballs created by large charges of straight TNT), but I don't think AP is one of these cases.
1. AP doesn't produce all that much heat when it detonates, and it is used in small (a few grams) charges by everyone who values their safety. These things reduce the heat of
the detonation products and therefore the possibility of the detonation products reacting with atmospheric oxygen.
2. Atmospheric oxidation of detonation products usually causes a bright flash. No flash can be observed from AP detonating, even in total darkness.
As for wax reducing the power of AP, I would say that yes, wax w ould reduce the power of AP. I don't think it has anything to do w ith the w ax being involved in the detonation
though, rather the all energy required to vaporise the wax.
nbk2000 October 17th, 2004, 09:39 PM

But the vaporized hydrocarbon (w ax) may provide a secondary fuel source once it's dispersed and ignited by the AP. A weak-ass FAE to be sure, but still...
A sizeable enough test (kilo) in an enclosed concrete structure would provide a comparative basis for temperatures, as you could explode it with targets like clothes/hair/
materials and see which gets more burnt.
xyz October 21st, 2004, 07:31 AM

Yes, the wax may ignite in kilo sized quantities, but is handling kilo quantities of AP really something you want to try anytime soon?
I can say for a fact that it is unlikely to ignite the wax with small charges. I once set off a 10g AP charge (wrapped in thin plastic) underneath a plastic bag containing approx
300mL of petrol. It dispersed the petrol into a nice big cloud but didn't ignite it.
Admittedly the petrol and AP were seperated by about 0.5mm of plastic, and were not in direct contact, but then petrol ignites much more easily than w ax.
nbk2000 October 21st, 2004, 01:20 PM

Kilo quantities of AP are safe to transport if w et and then dried in situ at the test site.
Small amounts of AP aren't likely to ignite liquid gasoline, as the evaporative cooling of the dispersing fuel cloud will prevent it from reaching ignition temperature.
However, if it was already in a vaporous (and highly ignitable) state, then a little AP would likely go a long w ay. ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Detonation Films
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GibboNet April 20th, 2004, 10:05 AM

Just spotted this on the web, I wasn't even looking for explosive s related stuff funnily eno ugh. :p
Detonation Film s (http://www.detonationfilm s.com /) They look pretty swe et, hit th e "free stuff" link and they have a whole slew
of pyro related movie s available for download. I haven't downloaded any, but they have the full DV source vids up, and I'd
assume they're pretty high qu ality.

Just spotted this on the web, I wasn't even looking for explosive s related stuff funnily eno ugh.
Looked at the trailer- Pretty well done. W onder how old the kids who did this were , doesn't look like they were 12 year olds.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Entomopter: Exploration or
Espionage of the Future?
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festergrump April 21st, 2004, 07:55 AM

I found this to be a very interesting read. Searching fo r other posts on the topic returned no results, so I thought Id post a
few links and see what yall thought of it. An Entom opter, it s e e m s, flaps it s m echanical wings t o fly rather like an insect but
u s e s less power than a propeller or jet engine. I m intrigued by the c h e m ical m uscles they say it incorpora t e s , b u t a m
saddened they do not go into any great detail about it.
http://gtrese archnews.gatech.edu/reshor/rh-f01/mars.htm l
http://www.space.com /scienceastronom y/solarsystem/m ars_flapper_011205-1.html
I m quite aware this is the Explosives a n d W e a p o n s Forum , but this technology m ight prove worthy in the future for m ore
than Mars exploration. The current terrestrial m o d e l b o a s t s a m ere 10 gram payload capacity (which is not all that b a d
considering the m ode of flight and maneuverability.). W hat would you do with 10 gram s of space to fill? :D
I wa s thinkin g t h a t a b u t t o n - c a m would proba bly weigh in just under 10 gram s , a n d m ajority of that weight would be battery.
The article states that the chem ical m uscles provide mo re power than necessary to keep it aloft. Perhaps a 10 gram lim it would
be enough to include a sound device as well as camera? :confused:
vulture April 21st, 2004, 10:41 AM

These things could get really interesting with nuclear (polonium ) batteries.
T h e c h e m ical m uscle principle is about to be patented, so don't expect them to give away any details.
streety April 24th, 2004, 08:48 PM

This a really interesting idea. W ith som e skillfu l piloting it would be easy to get this thing past security in m ost buildings. The
legs seem like a good advantage as well, crawling rather than flying alon g air vents would save a lot of energy. If you could
m ake those feet sticky so it could cling to the ceiling an d point it's cam era downwards you would have one very powerful spy
tool.
If you add in a transmitter, receiver, cam era and m icrophone I think you will go way over the 10g though. Still, this is only an
e a r l y m o d e l a n d n o d oubt many im pro vem ents will be made.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Binary Cracker.
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Gossettc68 April 21st, 2004, 06:30 PM

I've recently developed a m arket for " Binary crackers " I've dont all the reasearch I need, All I need is som e basic input from
s o m e people m ore knowledgable than I am .
I a m currently selling a product called " Binary Survival Crackers " [ I am not going to disclose m y website/store because I
absolutly do not want this to com e o f f a s a a d v e r t i s e m e nt ] I've gone over practically everything in the book, including ESD free
m ixing conta iners and such. If anyone would be as so kind to spot an error in m y ' Directions for m aking " that would be mo st
appriciated.
1. Place fuse in tube inch. Be sure to cut fuse to a safe length. Drill ho le in tube just large enough for the fuse to fit snug.
Insert fuse FIRST. Do not attempt to drill into tube after powder is added. It is advisable to glue fuse into place to avoid
leak age.
2. Place one ? end plug ? in the end of the tube and glue tight with household qu ick-dry g lue of your choice.
3. add 25 Milligram s of white KCLO4 explosive grade ?A? powder into tub e.
4. Add 25 m illigram s of star m olecule. Military grade, Gray powder to the survival cracker tube. (GR Z B POW DER ) DO NOT PRE-
M I X P O W DER AND FUNNEL INTO TUBE. EXPO SED PO WDER CO ULD BE SUBJECTED T O ELECRO STATIC DISCHARGE IGNITION. (
ESD )
5. Place top plug into cracker tube using a dowel to help seal it accurately and easily
6. Turn crack er slowly in order to m ix contents. Do not shake vio lently. Turn slowly for 30 seconds.
7. Never hold in hand when lighting. Place on hard flat surfaces with no rock/gravel. Light fuse, get away. Use for O NLY survival
purposes only. Any other use could lead to crim inal charges and civil penalties.
NOTE: The 4th direction line says " Gray powder " which is Star Molecule Alum inum . The reason why I picked these chem icals is
because they are un-regulated and absolutly safe till mixture.
Haggis April 23rd, 2004, 06:59 PM

A sm all search shows you have been a dvertising elsewhere, glad you decided to skip that here.
First off, your ratios a re off. If one would want a better ratio within the 50 mg limit you are trying to keep at, a better m ixture
would be .035 grams perchlorate and .015 g alum inum .
You state 'louder than an M-80'. The definition of an M-80 is vague at best, but it is generally accepted that they contain
around 2-3 gram s of powder, which is quite a bit m ore then stan d a r d 5 0 m g .
How do you plan to send it? Large containers? How shall the buyers m a s s t h e c h e m icals?
T h e p e o p l e b u y i n g t h i s a r e g o ing to to sim ply make large crackers, instead of the 'legal' 50mg typ e. I would suggest, if it is to
keep as legit as it can, to pre mass and sell vials of the A+B m ix seperately, and each m ixed will get you the 50mg , it will be
harder to see that as an 'illegal salute' operation that way.
Also, I hope your tubes are ra ther thick, as 50mg isn't m uch mo re than standard crackers for soun d.
Keep in mind that it would be possible to be lia ble if a person is in a real survival situation and the crackers fail to be loud
enough to attract any attention.
Edit: Your site shows that you sell in la rge containers with the KC l O 4 a n d a l u m inum , m uch m ore than a com b i n e d 1 g r a m for
all 2 0 crackers. It would appear to an agency visitor that you are selling illegal salutes, as you do not state that it totals out to
5 0 m g, you just state they are 100% le gal. Even though they have 50m g of powder, I believe there are regulations against
creating explosive devices without a license. So meone will correct me if I am wron g.
Also, your jars are m isleadingly labled. The gre y one sh o u l d b e l a b e l e d ' A l u m i n u m ' o r s i m ilar, not "KClO4 "A" Powder". The jar
containing th e K C l O 4 s h o u l d b e l a b e l e d a s s u c h .
If you are getting any orders in, I am am azed at the profit margin that you are getting on these little kits.
tiac03 April 24th, 2004, 01:34 AM

So you light this thing, it "blows up" and attracts people to your location through noise? Um m m n o o n e s e e the flaw in this?
How many people go into the woods here to carry out "experime nts"? And why do you do this... so no one finds or sees you.
Now apply that to this guys invention.

*BOO M*
-Hey! you he ar that?
y e a h s o u n d e d like a big firecracker
-stupid kids
hey maybe its one of those survival crackers?
-where'd it come from ?
No clue... sweet! bacon is ready!
you'd be better off with a fecking 25 cent whistle or an air horn like they use at hockey gam e s .
now if it is used as a bear scare it is also useless by the tim e you get the fuse lit..... also they sell cool bear scares that fire off
the top of a pen gun looking thing, easier and quicker to use. (probably cheaper too )
I think the only people that will buy those things are people with a false sense of security, people who like blowing up frogs,
and teenagers "kewls,leets" that want to make noise, with no effort.... you'll be rich!
Use for O NLY survival purpose s only

does that actually need both the "only's"?
Ropik April 24th, 2004, 05:03 AM

In m y opinion this firecracker is not too useful.
In m any environm ents, when you mak e short burst of noise(firecracker), the direction of the sound is hard to detect, because
the noise bounce off hills, large boulders, even large trees...
Recently I tested ANFO charge in woods - almost1/2 kg of AN/fuel oil - and nobody cam e. I think that this charge is m uch
m ore noisy than any firecracker :D .
R e a l l y , y o u s h o u l d f i n d s o m e other noise to attract attention of rescuers.

If you want to be really sure, use personal alarm com mo nl y us ed a s s el f -def enc e t o o l . 120dB i ns t a nt l y. Co ver yo u ears,
however.
0EZ0 April 24th, 2004, 05:40 AM

I personally see many legal implications in selling these kits. It's obvious you are trying the same method of separating the
'harm less' components in transit to the purchaser. I don't see how this will work as with the Tannerite targets.
It certainly does seem as if you are trying to pass off flash powder salutes as some harm less survival product. Obviously there
are m uch better (cheaper m ore efficient) produ cts that serve the sam e purpose. The only real attraction be ing that they so
coincidently contain the materials and com p o n e n t s f o r t h e m a n u facture of a m uch sought after pyrotechnic device :rolleyes:.
That aside, make sure there are no irregularities in the instructions with the kit. For a longer visual flash recom m e n d a l a r g e r
a m ount of fuel to oxidizer. For more of a 'crack' recom m e n d m i x i n g t o s t o i c h i o m etric prop ortions. I would also pre-cut the fuse
t o s a f e l e n g t h s t o d e t e r p e o p l e f r o m cutting an unsafe length which would not allow them to retire to a safe distance.
S e e m s a crazy idea..

I personally see many legal implications in selling these kits.
Yes. The ATFE has forbidden the sale of "M-80 kits" to the general public in the U S for quite some time. You can call it
s o m ething else, but it's still a kit for m aking large hand fired ground salutes. I'll be interested to see how long your attem pt to
sell these lasts.
I rem ember an identical product labeled as "cultural crackers" in the rece n t p a s t . . . T h e s e s e e m t o h a v e d i s a p p e a r e d f r o m t h e

net.
(edit)
Nope, the "cultural crackers" ARE still b eing sold, I just didn't search prop erly the first time -

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Police Foil Bank Robber's Scuba Getaway
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View Full Version : Police Foil Bank Robber's Scuba Getaway
Jacks Complete April 21st, 2004, 07:36 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=817&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20040416/ap_on_fe_st/scuba_heist
No-one's posted this, so I though I would.
A case of "Close, but no cigar"!

----
Strange News - AP
Police Foil Bank Robber's Scuba Getaway
Fri Apr 16, 4:19 PM ET
OLYMPIA, Wash. - A bank robber wearing a wetsuit under his clothes tried to make a scuba-diving getaway but was tackled by police before he reached the water, authorities
say.
Police subdued the man Thursday on the shore of Budd Inlet after a car chase, a crash and a sweaty quarter-mile dash through the woods, during which he tried to sprint into
the water while lugging his diving gear and a backpack filled with the stolen cash, Sgt. Ray Holmes said.
Charles E. Coma, 35, was jailed on suspicion of robbery.
Police said Coma held up a bank Thursday with an assault rifle and fled with an undisclosed amount of money, leading police on a two-mile car chase. After crashing into a
tree, he got out and ran, wearing a weight belt with an air tank and regulator slung over his shoulder, police said.
Coma managed to get close enough to toss the backpack into the water before officers tackled him on the shore and used a stun gun to halt him, Holmes said. The money
was recovered.
Police found a pair of fins inside the car.
He had gone into the bank with a wetsuit under an overcoat or a sweatsuit, police said.
tom haggen April 22nd, 2004, 02:49 AM

One of my most favorite fictional robbery scenes uses a combonation of some scuba gear, A dummy safe and a speed boat, and expert safe cracker, some nitropaint, and
schematics of the target. It was from the movie the Italian Job.
PsYcHo April 22nd, 2004, 02:06 PM

I find it hard to see how this guy would have escaped using scuba gear described in the article. Being a qualified scuba diver, i know that when using open circuit scuba diving
equipment, the equipment discribed in the article, the police would have been able to follow his bubbles on the surface and get him when he surfaces. However, he could have
escaped using a rebreather. A rebreather recycles the air through a scrubber then enrichs it with oxygen. Its a totally closed circuit, giving off no bubbles, thus allowing the guy
to escape once underwater.
Jacks Complete April 22nd, 2004, 02:33 PM

PsYcHo,
you are right. Of course, this guy didn't come close to thinking that far ahead, since he didn't even make it to the water!
Wonder where he got Tazered, since wet suits don't conduct?
Skean Dhu April 22nd, 2004, 04:06 PM

when you put 300-500kV through them obviously they do.Also it might not have been a full wetsuit it could have been the ones that have short sleeve arms and legs. If I had
planned this I would have stashed the diving gear at a familiar, easily accesable place(low bridge/causeway) and driven the car either into the water, or close enough I could
hop out and jump in. but alas he didn't and now is being pimped out by his local/state government. I like the infiltration scene depicted in The Rock. but since he's robbing a
bank I'm guessing he didn't have enough money for those underwater scooter things.

I would have driven straight into the water, off a bridge, and trusted that the seatbelt would stop my face meeting the car! Then, under cover of the water rushing in, and the
air rushing out, I would have sat there till everything was calm, and the cops had gone off to call for back-up, then swam away. None of this running through the woods like a
divy for me! I would have used a rebreather, too, except from memory they are really expensive, and my diving skills are not that great - I should get lessons!
Would it set off the terrorist alert? "Hi, I want to learn to dive, but don't bother with the getting into the water bit." seems very close to "Teach me to fly, but no landings."!
nbk2000 April 22nd, 2004, 07:17 PM

So close, yet so stupid! :p
Small Town April 22nd, 2004, 09:06 PM

IMHO it could have been a great escape if properly thought out, ofcourse the crim probably didn't plan on crashing his car into a tree, or trying to outrun the cops while carrying
an oxygen tank and weight belt. The more i think about this the better it sounds, all you have to do, after the trouble of the initial robbery and escape ofcourse, is drive into
the water. A sportsbike would make the getaway faster, if a little more difficult trying to balance the tanks on your back, but as said this could be overcome by stashing them
somewhere, perhaps even under your intended crash site, although margin for error is always welcome, which wouldn't be happening with either the bike OR underwater stash.
What Im trying to say is this could have been done so much better, and if your going to rob a bank why in the hell wouldn't you be equiped the most suitable equipment
available?
John Ashcroft April 23rd, 2004, 07:46 AM

Because you don't have the money for it and are impatient...
nbk2000 April 24th, 2004, 01:50 PM

Thus we see the orgins of the RTPB concerning proper investment and planning.
Because you don't have the money for it and are impatient...
People usually rob banks because they're poor, and poor people can be desperate, and desperate people are usually impatient people, and impatience equals laziness,
stupidity, and inevitable failure.
You don't plan on a scuba escape miles from the scene, as that gives pigs too much time to chase you. You use scuba only for crimes within a block or two of water, preferably
on the water, like a riverboat casino or waterfront business.
Rebreathers are overkill, as the pigs can't follow the bubbles unless they've got a boat, which they're not going to have on the spot when they're not expecting you to drive off
a bridge into the water. They won't know you did it on purpose, they'll simply think you crashed and drowned. :)
By the time "rescue" :rolleyes: divers show up, you're long gone, presumably thrown clear of the vehicle and drifted off, dead, into the banks. By the time they figure it out,
you're long gone. Especially if you have on of those nifty electric underwater scooters to pull you along. :D
streety April 24th, 2004, 07:54 PM

If you want to leave your gear in the water and then hope you can 'crash' less than a breath away it might be an idea to take one of those miniature tanks with you. They
look a bit like an aerosol can with the mouth piece in the top. They only give you a minute or so but it reduces the risks and the accuracy needed.
Crash your car or bike into the water, breathe off this emergency supply for the minute or so it takes you to reach your main gear and sort it all out and then switch to your
main supply and swim off into the distance.
the Jackal April 26th, 2004, 11:34 PM

I have only been scuba diving on a few occasions but i figure you can only reasonably swim a short distance underwater hauling all that gear. even with a motorized
underwater craft (very expensive) you can only go so far. i mention this because there is little point to going underwater and swimming a few km and then coming up again.
you are very slow when underwater comared to driving or using some other type of transportation. this gives the police a good amount of time to setup some sort of shore
patrols. better to wear a disguise under your clothes, instead of a freaking wet suit, and then after you rob the bank quickly change out of your over clothes in a secluded area.
escape via mass transit where you can blend in.
overall i think this guy just added a lot of un-necessary complication to his plan.

overall i think this guy just added a lot of un-necessary complication to his plan.
Ha ha, Aquaman allways WAS the LAMEST superhero! (http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/aquaman.htm)
Jacks Complete April 30th, 2004, 08:15 PM

Ha ha, Aquaman allways WAS the LAMEST superhero! (http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/aquaman.htm)
ROFL. I damned near wet myself watching some of those clips and reading those comments... Seanbaby is a hero! :D
streety May 8th, 2004, 03:35 PM

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FALLEN_HERO?SITE=APWEB&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Well at least this guy made it into the water.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Slashdot: This Robot Collects
Fingerprints
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View Full Version : Slashdot: This Robot Collects Fingerprints

Apparently, the canadian police (Toron to) have a new robot that they drive up to suspect packages to check whether the
b o m bers were wearing gloves...
----
http://www.newsandevents.utoronto.ca/bin5/040419a.asp for the full article, but basically, the device sprays superglue fumes
over the suspect package, revealing any prints as the glue fum es bond to the oils left by fingers. It is attached to what looks a
lot like a standard "wheelbarrow" bom b d i s p o s a l r o b o t .
----
The below is off slashdot (http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/04/21/1814218.shtm l?
tid=126&tid=137&tid=158&tid=216&tid=99) which is whe re I spotted the article.
----
S o m etime in the future... (Score:3, Funny)
by Jade E. 2 (313290) <slashdot@perlGIR ... m inus herbivore> on Thursday April 22, @01 :22AM (#8936332)
(http://www.perlstorm .net/)
The technicians watch the scre en closely as the hot fumes settle over the bom b, 2 blocks away. They're looking for any sign of
fingerprints, ready to aim and snap a shot with the remote unit's secondary, high-res camera as soon as they show up. Faint
areas start to stand out in a strange pattern... And soon they realize it's a word... "B"... "BO"... "BOO"... "BO OM"... "BOO M!"...
As the fum e s a d h e r e t o t h e d r o p o f o i l o n t h e s m a l l l i g h t s e n s o r i n t h e d o t o f t h e e x l a m ation point, covering it in an opaque

white coating , there's a faint click deep inside the bomb .
" D a m nit, that robot was expensive!" the squad captain says to his lieutenant, as they hud dle behind their van, debris raining
down around them.
----
:D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Decent Piece of Iraqi Hom e-
engineering
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festergrump April 23rd, 2004, 09:28 AM

A friend of m ine just e-m ailed m e this picture of a nice piece of Iraqi home engin eering. (Searching for more info on the net, I
found it on Y ahoo. Can't post pic as an attachm ent, so see the pic and caption here (http://news.yahoo.com /news?
tmpl=story2&u=/040414/481/jbm1050 4141644&e=14&ncid=1756) ).
For t h e tim e s p e n t o n m a k i n g it, I believe I d h a v e p r o d u c e d 4 s e p a r a t e u n its a n d m ade t h e m a bit shorter. Hell, the whole
contraption looks a little on th e heavy side, as well. Give me a sack full of LAW rockets over this deal, any day, but I give
t h e g u y a n A for actually producing som e t h i n g r e m otely worthy out o f what he had o n h a n d .
I wonder what is used for the explosive charge for the warhead. I'm under the impression that AN is m ore widely used than any
other in that part of the world. Am I wrong?
Right now I'd honestly be hard pressed to build som ething better, but "necessity IS the m other of invention", and I'm sure the
guy that m a d e t h i s d e e m ed it necessa ry! :D
aikon April 23rd, 2004, 10:59 AM

I s a w a t v s p e c i a l a b o u t s o m e " f r e e d o m fighters" in iraq who build their own rpg's and m ortars. It's very im pressive to see what
those people convert into lethal weapo ns under such circum stances.
And don't forget: Tho se guys never ha d access to roguesci.org
Arkangel April 23rd, 2004, 06:56 PM

It's m y guess that they fired some form of artillery rocket from it (m a y b e a n R P G ) - j u d g i n g b y t h e f a c e s h i e l d , p e e k i n g o v e r
the top of a wall. It would surprise m e i f t h e y u s e d h o m e m ade rockets, with there being so m uch ordinance out the re.
nbk2000 April 24th, 2004, 02:03 PM

L o o k s l i k e s o m e t h i n g for firing 2.75" HYDRA rockets.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Knives, the Real Steel.
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View Full Version : Knives, the Real Steel.

I'm looking for a fixed blade that can take daily use, and have decided to stop buying shit from flea markets. Are the Cold Steel, Spyderco, and other high-end knives worth
the extra cash?
Also, does anyone have a balisong they find particularly tough?

Are the Cold Steel, Spyderco, and other high-end knives worth the extra cash?
Cheap ass knives suck.
The cold steel fixed blades are pretty reasonable for what you get. They have a seconds section on their web page that you should look at-
Spyderco are good, but there main thing is folders, IMHO.
Personaly, I cary a leatherman wave. If I thought I needed a weapon not a tool, a knife wouldn't be my choice.
xperk April 25th, 2004, 08:15 AM

Hang man,
it all depends on what your daily use is, if you can legally carry a fixed blade then in the low end of the price range if would go for a swedish work knife.. dirt cheap, good steel
- main drawback is aesthetics: plastic handle and sheet - they are however extremely tough.
Second in line I would go for military surplus, like the airforce survival knife or the bowie.
I have a cold steel tanto laminated steel the kraton handle sucks bad and the blade is due to the thickness not very practical for anything else but ribcaging opponents - the
handle came apart on a trip to central america.
My advice would be to stay away from kraton or other fancy space age materials - especially the ones glued on to the handle ( a Gerber came apart on a trip to asia ) seems
to me like the fancy solutions don't work in hot humid temperatures.
If you want to spend go for a full tang with a stacked leather or wood handle. If you are a camper / survivalist go for a machete and a nice medium-sized folder.

To put the Kraton on the handle they heat it so it expands, then hammer it on and let it cool. That may explain it falling apart in humid conditions.
The leatherman wave is a nice tool, but I need a larger blade. I'm used to carrying a small Machete I brought back from Costa Rica but it's reaching the end of its rope. It
needs to be able to hold up to everyday use in a farm environment plus the odd camping/canoe trip. If Kraton is no good, that rules out most Cold Steel, so maybe something
like this:
http://www.1sks.com/store/becker-knife-and-tool-combat-utility-knife.html.
Anyone own a Camillus?

Cold steel makes a good knife, possibly made out of 1040 medium carbon steel. I own a gurka style, cold steel knife and i'm quite satisfied. I would recommend Bench Made
Knives. They are used a lot by the military and law Enforcement. Their spring loaded model is quite popular, and they are made right here in Oregon. They are quite possibly
the best knife around. Also, if your a fan of European engineering, Puma, Made in Germany offers a knife made out of high quality stainless steel. I used to own one of those.
However, I didn't really like the design they used for there locking mechanisms. But it's the common design used by many knife manufacturers, and I think it needs a big
improvement. Try to find a knife made from 440C stainless steel, this type of stainless yields the highest hardness of hardenable stainless steels.http://worldwideknives.com/
EntrekUSA/Entrek1.html Heres some knives made out of 440C stainless... I like the destroyer :cool:
jelly April 25th, 2004, 02:12 PM

If you have much money, buy a Busse knife. These are the most reliable and durable knives with a fixed blade.
If no take a look at Swamp Rat knives (the "Busse" version for the poor) http://www.swamprat.com/knives.html
Or grab one of the best European knives. I recommend the Swedish Faellkniven A1 with a 6mm blade made of V10 steel http://www.fallkniven.com/a1f1/a1_en.html.
You can find interesting reviews for nearly all good knives at http://www.bladeforums.com.
Bigfoot May 6th, 2004, 11:31 AM

My substitute machete is an antique Mauser bayonet. Look around for the stainless ones--not exactly common, but buy 2 or more. I suspect that the stainless ones were an
experimental melt, because my first one has non-homogenous alloy--parts of the blade are higher chrome and lots harder than the rest. Makes sharpening interesting. Others I
have are a bit better. But hey, for under USD$20, a good, tough knife for splitting firewood, chopping brush/saplings, general hard labor that a folder just won't do.
aikon May 6th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Please have a look at www.katzknives.com.
They are producing one of the best knives I've ever seen, IMHO.
Jacks Complete May 10th, 2004, 06:29 PM

I have a rather nice, rather old kukri. Picked it up at an antique furniture shop, of all places. Used it in anger on a tree recently, and it did a great job. The only thing is that the
handle is rather small, and has an odd sort of circular ridge, which cuts into my hand a little. It would raise a blister after a lot of use.
They are a heavy backed blade, and the shape lets you cut deep into wood without much effort. Mine is about 14" long.
If you get one, you might want to consider a stainless blade or something, as the leather sheath has caused some rust over the years.
New ones can be quite expensive...
Hang-Man May 11th, 2004, 07:11 PM

A kurkri is a machete as far as I am concerned, and while I allways liked the style, its hard to cary and use. But I'm glad you brought up steels. Most knives I'm looking at are
either AUS-6 or 8. Maby 0170-6C (Cold Steels 'carbon V' is very similar iirc) allthough a few (like the kershaw bump and the odd spyderco) are made in S30V. I don't mind if
it's not stainless so long as it takes (and keeps) a good edge. I have had a knife in M1 before and liked it. But it only seems to be used in dive knives, or knives designed for
life in salt water. There must be a reason it's not used elsewhere. I think I'll order a Camillus for a fixed blade, they make several that look solid. Maby a low end Benchmade
axis if I can find the cash. Some links I have come across in my search: (why is html code off?)
Camillus: http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?bkt/index.shtml~main
I hate frame based sites.. Go to "BK&T" for the fixed knives I was talking about.
Benchmade: http://www.benchmade.com/index.asp
Really high prices, but I have heard nothing but good things about them.
CRKT: http://www.crkt.com/m16mil.html
This page is badly put together so I just linked to the one I was looking at. Good prices and looks like a solid knife.
Ontario Knives: http://www.ontarioknife.com/machetes.html

Everyone needs a good machete.
How does everyone feel about the a tanto tip? And what do you use to sharpen/maintain your knives?

Steels are pretty hard to get your head round. Everyone seems to call them by different names, and you tend to need a look-up table anyway to see what percentages of
what they have in them, the hardness, and so on.
The main stainless steel is 304 (Grade S30400, aka. ), which accounts for over half of all stainless sold. It gets used for everything, including crap stainless steel knives, cutlery,
etc. Keeps a vaguely keen edge, but cannot be sharpened to anything like a good carbon steel. Fairly hard, and strong. Suffers from spotting and the other weird corrosion
touches you get on cutlery, mostly from salts, I believe.
The second is 316, which is about half of what's left, or about 20% of the total production. It has better corrosion resistance.
Sadly, neither of these are good knife steels!
Less stainless, but still quite rust resistant, you get the Chrome Vanandium tool steels, which would seem to be a good choice, though they are seriously hard to machine, and
they tend to be drop-forged into things like spanners and screwdrivers (that means the still semi-molten metal is hammered into a forming mold) This seems to hold a good
edge, but may chip due to being over-hard.
Plain high-carbon steel is last, with a tendency to rust rapidly under the right (wrong) conditions. Holds a bloody sharp edge, can be easily and simply tempered and hardened,
and is easy to resharpen. Much softer, so the edge is more likely to dent on impact with a nail, etc. than to chip, so it can be bent back and touched up a little, re-sharpened
and tempered, and restored without too much heartache.
Of course, you could try some kind of rust stopper. I just got a sample of some super aerospace compound which is supposed to be the greatest thing ever, something 50,
which claims to get under the rust and bond to the metal molecules, stopping rust and corrosion forever (unless worn away) but we will see...
randall May 31st, 2004, 07:16 PM

Ka-Bar makes a pretty solid fighting knife. they run about $40 us. the marines have been using them since ww2 iirc. they also make some nice tanto blades and hunting
knives
The Mauser bayonet is also a good choice for those bigger jobs, built as tough and reliable as the rifle it was made for.
jelly October 13th, 2004, 01:40 AM

I'm looking for a fixed blade that can take daily use
Extrema Ratio, an Italian manufacturer of tactical knives (tanto style) for police/military/special forces has now developed a small but strong and massive backup knife with a
blade thickness of 6.3 mm... the perfect "every day carry" chisel... eh... knife :D
Fixed blade SHRAPNEL by Extrema Ratio:
http://www.extremaratio.com/ing/listaConfig.php?id_serie=19
http://jellybelly84.tripod.com/knife (German text)
tom haggen October 13th, 2004, 02:26 AM

Yes Jack, you said it. Steels are hard to identify when it comes to different countries. However, I notice you seem to be using some recognizable numbers, and you are from
the UK and I am from the US. Anyway, your right about carbon steels, as they to seem to be the perfect carbon to iron ratio to keep your tool from cracking. A good carbon
steel would be O6 tool steel. The "O" of course stands for oil hardening. I own a copy of The Machinist's Handbook, and I must say that the properties of 440C stainless steel
seem quite desirable in a knife. So hang man did you ever decide on anything? A benchmade maybe?
nbk2000 October 13th, 2004, 05:21 PM

From the Extremea Ratio site:
elite unit of FOLGORE brigade of ITALIAN ARMY
'Elite' and 'Italian Army' in the same sentence?! :p :D
BTW, ANYTHING with the word 'Extreme' in it that doesn't involve jumping out of a hovering helicopter to ski down an 85 slope, is likely to be EXTREMELY lame. Not
everything, but certainly the vast majority. See 'Extreme', think 'Lame', and act accordingly.
tom haggen October 13th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Extreme Close Up!!!! Extreme Close Up!!! Wu Wu Wu Wu Wayne's World Wayne's World Party Time Excellent!
nbk2000 October 14th, 2004, 05:21 PM

Case in point! :)
.......................
meselfs October 14th, 2004, 05:28 PM

I find that the best knive is a victorinox :D.
But if you want something better, you want a liquidmetal knife:
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/clark_model_10.html
Unfortunately the blade chips very easily, but for work that's low impact this knife supposedly is far better then a SS knife. Information about the new metal:
http://www.liquidmetal.com
http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.news.04x204.asp
SweNMFan October 14th, 2004, 06:34 PM

I love my Cold Steel Tanto but it sucks as a work knife, unless you are a hitman and it is ridiculusly expensive.
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?CS13AN
Same goes for the SOG Bowie,
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-Product%20Spec?sog1,
nbk2000 October 14th, 2004, 08:56 PM

The best knife for 'wet' work would be one made yourself from scrap steel.
No traceable manufacturer and you can make it anyway you want and beat the thing to death to find out its weaknesses before making another just like it for use.
I read about how "Wild Bill" Hickok would take great pains with his guns, checking every primer, changing the powder every day, making the bullets himself, etc. His belief was
that, since his life depended on his guns working EVERY TIME, he would treat them as such.
So too with any piece of gear you're going to be carrying into battle.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Anybody know how to edit djvu
files?
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View Full Version : Anybody know how to edit djvu files?
megalomania April 25th, 2004, 04:52 PM

I wa nt to cre ate pdf files with text-under-im a g e O C R d r e s u l t s . T h e i m a g e s t o b e O C R d are digital p h o t o g r a p h s a n d a r e q u i t e
h u g e t o g i v e g o o d O CR accuracy; we are talking 300-40 0 K each . Once the im a g e s h a v e b e e n m a d e i n t o P D F p a g e s t h e r e i s
no way reduce their size to the sam e extent I can with other im age editing softwa re. I can cut the images down to a tenth or
l e s s o f their original size, but then I can t OC R t h o s e .
As far as I know there is no way to rem ove the text layer from a PDF docum ent and im port it under a new PDF docum ent (in
t h i s c a s e m a d e f r o m low resolution im a g e s ) .
DJVU files on the other hand can export their text layer as an XML docum ent. I could still get good OC R accuracy from the
larger images, export the text, and then create a new DJVU file m a d e o f m u c h s m aller sized im a g e s , a n d i m port the XML text.
T h e t r o u b l e i s I c a n t s e e m to find any software that enab les you to create or edit DJVU files. There is s om ething called
Docum e n t E x p r e s s ( d e s k t o p , p r o , a n d enterpris e editio n s ) that m ight d o t h e trick, but I c a n t find any, eh, let u s s a y f r e e
copies. I think only the enterprise edition lets you export and im port text as XML, although I could be wrong on this.
Are there any freeware appz o ut there that let you create and edit DJVU files in th is way? A DJVU to PDF converter would also be
handy.
Naturally if anyone knows how to e x t r a c t O C R d text layers from o n e P D F d o c u m e n t a n d i m p ort it into anothe r I would like to
know.
Rhadon April 25th, 2004, 08:16 PM

I can upload Document Express to the FTP. Just give me a few days.
nbk2000 April 26th, 2004, 03:57 PM

I was wondering about DejaVu as a m ore secure means of distributing my DVD, on the presumption that it would be m ore
difficult, if not im p o s s i b l e , t o m ake a stripped copy of it, like can be done with PDF.
Is it possible to edit a djvu do cum ent? I've tried doing screenshot/O CR of djvu files and the results are (de sireably) crappy. :)
If th ere is an editor, will it work on un'ocr'd files? I could always convert m y file pages into pictures, then m ake a djvu file of
that, defeating OCR?
Basically, I'm looking for a m ore secure alternative to PDF, to prevent k3 wls from possibly ripping m y file. :mad:

I'm looking for a m ore secure alternative to PDF, to prevent k3wls from possibly ripping m y file.
W hat about FOLIO?
The excellent LSS+ ( Locks, Safes, and Security) Electronic Infob ase Edition is based on the Folio database software .
S o m e crackers are working on it, but till now there isn't any com plete crack for Folio.
http://www.security.org and http://www.security.org/lss-tour/UNLOCK.HTM
http://www.nextpage.com /pub lishing/folio/index.htm
-------------------------------------------------
Do you have a source for the government edition of LSS+?

I'd like to wa tch these movies: http://www.security.org/lss-tour/lssdsk2.htm :)
nbk2000 April 27th, 2004, 04:43 PM

W h a t g o o d d oes having the government edition do you if you don't have the video files?

I thought of the com p l e t e " g o v e r n m e n t" version on 10 cd-rom s ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nice "I Love Explosives" De cal
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zot April 29th, 2004, 12:46 AM

There is a nice 2" by 3" decal on eBay that says
W ARNING
I LO VE
EXPLOSIVES
i n R e d a n d b lack for $1.99.
http://cgi.ebay.com /ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &category=1467&item=4165015502&rd=1
I know I want one.
Have a blast!
ZOT

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > I see dead people
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If you're an American, the internet is w here you have to look these days for the news and most particularly the pictures (http://home.w i.rr.com/davef/iraq.htm) that the
mainstream US press will not publish.
aikon April 29th, 2004, 06:08 PM

The faces of war. Thank you for that uncensored glimpse.
SpiffyVision April 29th, 2004, 08:01 PM

Here's this place for more uncensored footage and pictures: http://w ww.thenausea.com/menu.html

What w as wrong w ith that kid's face on the bottom of the last page. It w as all multi colored. Was that some type of infection?
ST April 29th, 2004, 09:25 PM

I just saw on the new s pictures of what American MP's w ere doing to iraqi prisoners! theres going to be hell to pay for that, surely the MP's involved will be locked up.
Stripped them naked and made them make a human pyramid, then posed around them with their thumbs up smiling .... what the hell! they must have taken a savage beating
to make them do that, wonder how much of that shit goes on.
And they w onder why there is resistance :rolleyes:
nbk2000 April 30th, 2004, 06:27 PM

Tread carefully here...................

ST, I have missed a similar massive indignation in all parts of the western world when this happened in september 2001:
http://ww w.thenausea.com/elements/WTC/Jumper11.jpg
http://ww w.thenausea.com/elements/WTC/Jumper.jpg
wrench352 May 1st, 2004, 10:07 PM

99% of the people I know were disgusted and ashamed of what happened.My views on this war have changed some in the past tw o w eeks,but,that w ont be discussed here.
That having been said;see what happens when you let gays in the military?Im sorry, strip em naked, make em mastubate or do,uh,acrobatics(?),AND take pictures for
later,sorry man thats gay(and yes I saw the girl there,Im sure her mothers proud).
this was a half hearted attempt at levity sorry to all that it offends
ps at least we didnt break most of the bones in their body and gang rape them
vulture May 2nd, 2004, 11:06 AM

ST, I have missed a similar massive indignation in all parts of the western world when this happened in september 2001:
Cmon, you're kidding right? The w hole western w orld officialy condemned the attacks, even we Europeans respected three minutes of silence, massive airtime on how atrocious
it was, etc.
The Iraqi victims can cheer if they get 5 seconds of airtime.
But as wrench said, that's not the point of the discussion. The pictures ALL show dead people which shouldn't have been dead in the first place.
Wrench, I seriously hope you were drunk or something when you posted this. It's not your style I'm used to. Are you saying only gay soldiers are mutilating Iraqis??
jelly May 2nd, 2004, 01:11 PM

The w hole western world officialy condemned the attacks, even w e Europeans respected three minutes of silence...
The official blabla isn't worth mentioning. I have read many letters to the editor in political magazines and talked to many people. Only a few have condemned the terror attack.
Most of them could hardly hide their joy at it, especially the left, the nazis and the muslims. Do you still remember the parties which have spontaneously taken place in some
European cities?
vulture May 2nd, 2004, 01:20 PM

Do you still remember the parties which have spontaneously taken place in some European cities?
That must have been the most uninformed, ill minded propaganda bullshit I've EVER read on this forum.
There were NO parties in European cities, I happened to live in Brussels at the time and I can assure you that there w ere no parties. However, there were lots of people putting
flowers outside the US embassy.
Either way you're confusing it with the massive protests in Europe against the war in Iraq, or you're confusing it w ith the supposedly cheering palestinians footage that w as
broadcasted on CNN. This footage turned out to be archived material later.
tom haggen May 2nd, 2004, 02:08 PM

http://ww w.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id= 95001194 I highly doubt the palestinians w ere not cheering on sept. 11, as many muslim countries w ere. This lady witnessed it first
hand. No fake new s reports needed. I think its dumb to say that was "The Day That Terroists Changed The World." Since they had done some much damage prior to 9/11. But I
honestly don't see any thing w rong w ith murdering people from the middle east. I'm sure I would enjoy pulling the trigger. But seriously though, whats up with that kids face? Is
it some type of infection.

Vulture:
You have posted this a few w eeks before the terror attack on Madrid... ~ 200 innocent people w ere killed.
Newsflash, there haven't been any terrorist attacks in Europe inspired by the same philosophy as those of 9/11. We don't have to shit our pants every day. The terrorist attacks
you are talking about are very local, very scarse and not on such a huge scale..... We didn't piss of the w orld and it's mother, so we have no terrorist attacks, color coded chart
systems and the OHS taking away our rights...
How do you think about this naive crap now?
You tend to argue idealistically and aggressively like a fundamentalist. It's time to remove your blinkers and see the world as it is... not as it should be ;)
BTW, the biggest and loudest parties in Germany had taken place in Hamburg (Schanzenviertel), Berlin (Kreuzberg) and Cologne.

Trying to swerve the attention aw ay from our moot point, are we?
Your inability to correctly interpret that quote from says enough I think. You kindly forgot that spain has soldiers in Iraq. This actually proves my point, because spain pissed of
the muslems by participating in this illegal war.
If you provoke people, be prepared to be punched back.
Still, spain didn't implement any repressive law s as a result, nor did the population slammed into terror frenzy mode.
Also, you ripped my quote out of it's context, because I w as denying that previous terrorist attacks by the ETA, RAF, etc were muslem attacks.
You tend to argue idealistically and aggressively like a fundamentalist. It's time to remove your blinkers and see the world as it is... not as it should be
I could say the same thing of you. It's like debating what tastes better, vanilla or milk chocolate?
BTW, the biggest and loudest parties in Germany had taken place in Hamburg (Schanzenviertel), Berlin (Kreuzberg) and Cologne.
Please provide reference.
Furthermore, w e're getting off topic and you're starting yet another EU vs US thread.
EDIT:
I highly doubt the palestinians were not cheering on sept. 11, as many muslim countries were. This lady witnessed it first hand.
Tom, notice the banners on the bottom of that page? They're all advertising american flags and patriot stuff....
Flake2m May 2nd, 2004, 03:52 PM

All new s is biased.
The anti-American news like Al-Jazera show pictures of US soldiers getting blown up and shot to shit.
The pro-American news like Fox show US soldiers shooting the crap out of something or jets bombing a building.
However neither side dares to show the real reality of war. People get shot, people get blow n up, some people even get burned alive. The bottom line is that people die and in
ways that are unimaginable and horriffic to think of.
Both sides glorify wars but real truth is that w hen you've been to war you really wish that sometimes they had never started in the first place.
That what these pictures show. They show a version of reality. They show a version of reality that both sides never show.
tom haggen May 2nd, 2004, 05:43 PM

Ya your probably right vulture. That soccer mom hoe! I still say I would like to cap a rag head.

You kindly forgot that spain has soldiers in Iraq. This actually proves my point, because spain pissed of the muslems by participating in this illegal w ar.
Do you remember the planned terror attack on the Christmas market in Strasbourgh in 2000.. years before the w ar in Iraq... and one year before the bloody attack in NY?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2835587.stm
Why have the muslim terrorists planned this?
"... "They planned to kill defenceless people at the Christmas market," said presiding judge Karlheinz Zeiher.
Through this action, in the European city of Strasbourg, they w anted to spread fear in France and Europe.
"The accused wanted to hit the nerve centre of a free, Western, civilised society."...."
The only goal of all this muslim terror in Madrid, New York and elsew here is very simple:
"Kill non-muslims wherever you can find them. If you survive the attack it w ill give you a good feeling... if you die, 72 virgins are w aiting for you in the paradise".
The target isn't only the USA... it's the whole free Western world.
matjaz May 2nd, 2004, 06:22 PM

I'm insulted by the claims that Europeans were supposedly cheering at any terrorist act. Me and all of the people I saw on the day of 9/11 were in tears and shocked. Making
phone calls to our US friends asking if they were fine. I w as here, I saw it.
I did not find one European of all that I have connections with that w ouldn't share my opinion. And that's a very big bunch of people of different views, education levels,
interests, religions. (Including all the muslims I spoke with, just for the record.)
Sick individuals cheering? I didn't see any, but cannot rule that out. The same as sick individuals in the US.
Here in Europe, we have tasted wars up close. In our ow n backyards. With our parents, with our babies. Meaning that we have a mature attitude towards violence and
casualties. Meaning that w e cannot cheer at someones pain. EOD.

Did you look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/w orld/europe/2659315.stm) article?
He said the attack was planned to harm relations betw een Israel and France, which he claimed had interfered in Algeria and supported a government he accused of massacring
Islamists.
Interesting how France now suddenly becomes a victim of terrorism too, whereas most americans claim they're part of the muslem conspiracy against the US... :rolleyes:
EDIT: Besides, if all Europeans were cheering why should the muslems attack us? :rolleyes:
matjaz May 2nd, 2004, 07:46 PM

I have loooked at it now, thanks. (On a side note, one of the problems is that w e're not ready to such a violation of the constitutional rights and basic freedom as the latest US
law s bring to the Americans. That, in turn, makes it difficult to prosecute suspects in Europe.)
"... France now suddenly becomes a victim of terrorism too, w hereas most americans claim they're part of the muslem conspiracy..."
It's a cover'up. ;) Sssh!
Besides, if all Europeans w ere cheering w hy should the muslems attack us? :rolleyes:
I don't think it's worth arguing. It's difficult if you live behind a tightly controlled media curtain. I go to US every now and then as a part of my job and I can see the isolation
level is really incredible in some cases.
Tom's quote show s the level we're dealing with:

But I honestly don't see any thing wrong with murdering people from the middle east. I'm sure I would enjoy pulling the trigger.
I must say I'm disappointed w ith him.
jelly May 3rd, 2004, 10:45 AM

Did you look at this article?.... He said the attack was planned to harm relations between Israel and France...
Yes, this article has been written 2 month before the other (both articles published by BBC NEWS), and the findings are obsolete. The fact that the terrorists wanted to kill
masses of Christians doesn't fit your w orld view. So you try to manipulate the reality and present an obsolete article that claims the terrorists have played the anti-israel card.
Go further in the past and you possibly find an article that claims the CIA or MOSSAD has planned the terror attack... :D
But I'll leave this political debate now. My English isn't good and I don't want to provoke possible misunderstandings with my posts.
vulture May 3rd, 2004, 04:11 PM

The fact that the terrorists wanted to kill masses of Christians doesn't fit your world view.
Another typical example of ill-informed black/white viewing. There's not only Christians in Europe or the western world.
So you try to manipulate the reality and present an obsolete article that claims the terrorists have played the anti-israel card.
You just won't understand it. France has had small scale Algerian terrorist attacks before because of their meddling w ith Algerian affairs. Do I need to make a drawing? Why
would one of the suspects confess such a thing otherwise?
Lol, me manipulating reality. :rolleyes: Does "forged Niger Uranium documents" mean anything to you? Or maybe 3D animations that w ere supposed to be "Sattelite images of
mobile biolabs"?
Gimme a break.
wrench352 May 3rd, 2004, 04:18 PM

Vulture,I w asnt referring to Berts pics but the ones that ST was referring to,I think.Berts pics are pretty gruesome. I was referring to the pictures of the abused Iraqi prisoners
that aired on 60 minutes II. I was pretty sober.
Something that w as brought to my attention recently.The Saudis are sympathetic to the Palestinians,why dont they share the wealth as one of the richest countries on Earth?
Instead of living in a huge slum they should at least be in a nice suburb.The Saudis and all the other opec arab states should put up or shut up and invest in their brothers.I see
no reason why Palestine shouldnt be the gem of the middle east.On Iraq I reversed course yet again but dont feel I can really discuss it. June 30 is all I can say.I really wonder
how history w ill look back on this.Vulture you have my email feel free to drop me a line.Also in regards to the abused prisoners dont confuse ignorance and stupity with brutality.

The Saudis are sympathetic to the Palestinians,why dont they share the w ealth as one of the richest countries on Earth? Instead of living in a huge slum they should at least be
in a nice suburb.The Saudis and all the other opec arab states should put up or shut up and invest in their brothers.
Hmm, the Saudis. That's perhaps a story w ith even more sides than the Palestinian/Israel conflict. There's the wealthy few that control the oil, some of them sell it to the US,
some of them sell it to the US and use the money to sponsor terrorist groups, the US sponsors the house of Saud in order to prevent the muslems getting the power, etc etc. It's
one big fucking quagmire! :confused:
I see no reason why Palestine shouldnt be the gem of the middle east
Maybe because every bit of their infrastructure get's bombed to shit because of it being a weapons factory?
Skean Dhu May 3rd, 2004, 09:25 PM

It w asn't until today that I found out about this terrible action done by a few jerk-offs in the armed forces, and it pisses me off how a small group of people ruin the the good
name of an entire culture(western/american culture in this case but the same goes for terrorists and the arabs).
Also the media coverage of the football player that died really pissed me off. this mans death I guarantee you was the only servicemans death that was on every new s
network. They made it seem like just because he had passed up a multi-million dollar football contract that his life was more important and his death was somehow more noble
or worthy than the other 690 coalition service men and w omen.
jelly May 4th, 2004, 01:31 PM

...You just won't understand it. France has had small scale Algerian terrorist attacks.... Lol, me manipulating reality. Does "forged Niger Uranium documents" mean anything to
you?
It makes a big difference, whether someone manipulates others (by war propaganda) or you manipulate yourself by overlooking obvious things ;)
The cause for the terror is the discrepancy between moral (religious) sense of superiority and economically and technologically inferiority opposite the Western World. From a
religious point of view of a muslim (Allah is on our side) the reason of all poverty and sorrow must lie at non-muslims. This is the Western World with prosperity and
decadence... an excellent projection surface for all own problems. And w hat are the most powerful countries in the Western World and in the Arabian region? The USA and Israel.
Believe it... if France were the most powerful western country, the terrorists w ould have not attacked the WTC but the Eiffel tow er.
The behavior of w estern countries has nothing to do with the cause of the terror. It possibly determines the order, when a w estern country w ill be attacked. Appeasement is the
wrong answer to the terror. It may let Christians live a little bit longer... but not very long.
Gimme a break.
ok :)
Bert May 4th, 2004, 01:44 PM

The behavior of w estern countries has nothing to do with the cause of the terror.
Are you at all familiar with middle eastern history of the last century or so?
vulture May 4th, 2004, 02:02 PM

From a religious point of view of a muslim (Allah is on our side) the reason of all poverty and sorrow must lie at non-muslims. This is the Western World with prosperity and
decadence... an excellent projection surface for all own problems. And w hat are the most powerful countries in the Western World and in the Arabian region? The USA and Israel.
Notice the striking parallel with your view that the cause of war must lie with the muslems.
Like bert pointed out, the western world has done nothing but meddling w ith arab affairs. I guess bombing the shit out of a few muslem countries is not significant enough to
speak of meddling? :rolleyes:
nbk2000 May 4th, 2004, 06:11 PM

Eny, meany, minny, moe, who's the next member w ho has to go? :mad:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Secret Service taking Job to new levels
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"Last week, Secret Service agents paid a visit to Prosser to try to answer an unusual question: Was the high-school freshman who turned in a drawing of President Bush with
his head on a stake a threat?
The district office of the Secret Service in Washington state declined to comment except to say its actions weren't out of the ordinary.
"This is not something unique to Washington, and this is not something unique to the times that we live in," said Wallace Shields, special agent in charge of the district. "If we
get what someone reports to be a threat against any person or place we protect, we investigate it."
Shields said it is unlawful to threaten the president's life. The job of the Secret Service is to determine whether there is an actual threat or danger; if so, the information is
turned over to proper authorities, which could include local police or the U.S. Attorney's Office. "
The article just gets worse and worse as it goes on.
It is 2:00am and I have a couple college papers due today so I do not have time to go off on the power of this one little article

To be honest, I doesn't surprise me in the least. What the fuck ever...There's no way that kid is a threat to the president's life or probably ever will be. Just another reason for
folks to get to thumping their bibles and saying, "There's too much damned violence on TV and in music, and video games these days!". It's fuel for the PMRC and other self-
righteous folk to take our every last freedom away. But the US Army can pay programmers a shitload of cash to produce a really kick-ass 1st person shoot-em-up game
(Americas Army) to entice youngsters who like that sort of thing into signing up for real. Kind of a double edged sword...
I'm not gonna go off on a rant, but ever since I saw GWAR last week I have been wondering: How long will we be able to have and see freedom of speech and expression? On
stage lead singer, Oderous Urungous (sp?) beheaded a mock John Kerry. Fake blood flew everywhere and all over everyone. Is GWAR a threat? Take a look at
them...(Oderous of GWAR) (http://www.gwar.net/media/pics/oderus/graphics/oderus12.jpg?gwarsid=7e0c8bacff2e5c9d12492bf853ae3 cae) THEY don't even take themselves
seriously! Now before anyone gets all upset with me because I think it was fucking hilarious, I'd have laughed just as hard if it were Bush. (Really. I'm not ranting or trying to
flare tempers. Promise.) It was just an awesome show that future generations may never know the likes of.
IMHO, what that kid drew was at the very most "in poor taste" (as is everything else I find amusing, I might add! ;) ). It's rediculous that it spawned an investigation by more
than a principal or school counselor. But, from a government who fears little old me and my deer rifle, I'm not surprised.
On a side note: Local news in my area says a 12 year old boy who strangled an 8 year old little girl for no apparent reason will not even be charged with murder, let alone be
tried as an adult. MY 8 year old knows right from wrong. Sick times we live in? I agree.
Darkdontay: Can you make it easy on us and post a link to the article?

Take a look at them...(Oderous of GWAR) (http://www.gwar.net/media/pics/oderus/graphics/oderus12.jpg?gwarsid=7e0c8bacff2e5c9d12492bf853ae3 cae)
I did- Charming lyrics, (http://lyrics.rockmagic.net/lyrics/gwar/hell_o_1988.html#u_aint_shit) I must say...
Arkangel April 30th, 2004, 02:59 PM

Have just come back from California, and while I was there I took my usual opportunity to go and fire off a few rounds (Ar15, Glock 9mm+.45 S&W .357).
Anyway, we had the chance to buy some lovely Saddam or OBL targets, which were basically home made by the range staff by sticking a photocopy over a normal target.
Since the range manager was such an arrogant, pretentious, redneck COCK, we were only prevented by lack of time from making a George Bush target or two.
Wonder what would have happened? :D

Hmmm... does the word INVESTIGATION come to mind? Crazy, ain't it?
Bert, that's some funny shit you gotta admit! :D Kinda shockingly funny. Like Howard Stern, funny. Oops! FCC put a stop to that, too... :confused:
darkdontay April 30th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Wow sorry guys I was dog tired.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001914403_artwork28m.html

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Terrorists and AN restrictions
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Dr_Pind April 30th, 2004, 11:04 AM

:mad: :mad: :mad: Most of you are well aware, that terrorists have made it harder to acquire AN based fertilizers in quite a lot of western countries. You always have to
ansver the same question again and again: "What is this 34-0-0 fertilizer for sonny?" And of course one says: "Its for my moms roses or potatoes or what ever"! The reason
for my post is the fact, that resent events in Britain, where several hundred kg of AN fertilizer was found stored by suspected terrorists, combined with the bombings in madrid,
have led to a bann of AN fertilizers (containing a definite percentage of AN) in Denmark. From the beginning of next year, one won't be able to get AN fertilizers in garden sales
anymore, unless one has got a agricultural licence. I'm curious if these recent events have led to bans or restrictions in other countries.
P.S. Stupid terrorists! If they had just used their explosives for fun, instead of killing people, we wouldn't be facing this problem today....
Dr_Pind April 30th, 2004, 11:14 AM

Oh... There is a similar thread on some AN fertilizer that was stolen in australia. The AN found in Great Britain is also mentioned. Seems that I'm not the only one concerned
about restrictions! Hope it will pass like it did in Oklahoma.
Hang-Man April 30th, 2004, 04:41 PM

They don't understand that weapons can be made from anything. By takeing away AN, they only give us reason to find more ways to make explosives from everyday items.
(Not like they could really ban AN anyway, I'm just saying..)
Plinker May 1st, 2004, 04:13 PM

Good point, even if they take away AN they'll just find something else. Thats like saying you cant have weapons in school (not that im saying thats bad or anything) but
anything could be a weapon, a pen could probably be equaly proficient at killing someone as a knife.(well, almost)
Davo May 23rd, 2004, 07:22 AM

I've been finding it incredibly hard to aquire some AN or saltpeter recently. A few years ago they sold it ok but now they try to sell you a bag of manure or a mixture if you ask
for KNO3 or NH4NO3 for a garden or lawn. Does anyone know if theres a definate "reason" that usually works in obtaining these two?
megalomania May 23rd, 2004, 09:59 AM

The funny thing is nobody ever blew up anything with fertilizer you get from a garden store. All the explosive uses of fertilizer are in quantities obtained through agriculture
supply stores in vast quantities. All these people have to do is say they have a farm.
Hang-Man May 23rd, 2004, 07:38 PM

The real problem is the media. The government knows that their laws hinder the hobbyist not the terrorist, but the sheeple pressure the lawmakers into banning AN because
channel 6 news did a 'special report' saying how civilization is on the brink of collapse because at any minute Osama bin Laden or the Boys from Brazil could walk on into Home
Hardware and, with $50, blow up a schoolyard full of orphans. These people need to learn that if a smart enough person wants to blow up a schoolyard full or orphans, there is
absolutely nothing that can be done about it, and banning AN just pisses people off. (which incites school/workplace shootings. So these people are adding to the problem :p)
Flake2m May 24th, 2004, 07:45 AM

Actually the public can do something about it, but not by carrying on about how dangerous AN and various household chemicals are.
I'd be simply simply keeping an eye out for things out of the ordinary. If a raghead was storing large amounts of AN in his house and didn't have a garden then isn't that sus?
Thwarting terrorist attacks relies on intelligence, undercover work and tip offs. Thats what the useless police and the less useless ASIO/MI5/FBI/CIA are for. Banning AN is a last
resort.

Haha... I agree. After all, look at all the laws to ban guns in the UK, and yet now every criminal has one (or more!)
We trade books on here covering theory of rifling, how to reload, etc. and we could use that knowledge to make a few toys, but the gangbanger general just puts out a few
hundred quid and gets a standard 9mm semi or whatever on "sale or return" for his troops, if they don't carry already.
Once again, laws only affect those prepared to abide by them.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Good source of Mg?
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Plinker May 2nd, 2004, 06:02 PM

I was looking for a cheap source of Mg and i found that some sacraficial anode rods from water heaters are made from Mg. From what i understand the rod corodes in place of
the tank. So if you bought one, or obtained some from old broken water heaters, would it be practical to grind it down and if so how much Mg would you obtain?
0EZ0 May 3rd, 2004, 12:07 AM

Actually most modern day sacrificial anodes in hot water systems are alloys of Zinc, Magnesium, Aluminium and trace amounts of other more expensive metals. The only ones I
have seen containing only one metal are made of zinc.
Getting them out of the old water systems not very efficient as they are designed to corrode in place of less reactive metals like Iron using an electric current (Cathodic
protection).
If you want Magnesium, look for rare metal scrap yards, metal dealers, shipwrights and industrial marine supplies. It should only take a few phone calls to find a source. Don't
be lazy.
festergrump May 3rd, 2004, 02:23 AM

Not exactly too cheap, but I found a reliable source for small quantities at my local Army/Navy surplus store. They sell these "Quick Firestarter Kits" that are a block of
magnesium (3/8"x4"x1.5") with a strip of flint embedded lengthwise. All you need do is scrape a few slivers off with a knife in a pile and cover with some twigs, then scrape
the knife down the flint and there you have it. A nice fire, windy,wet, or not. (Or grind the sonofabitch up and do what you will with it!). $8.95 US.
I gave up looking for old "mag" wheels a long time ago.
Ropik May 3rd, 2004, 04:53 AM

Oh, yes... firestarters... Many people are using this as Mg source - including me!
But you can also buy some magnesium ribbon and shove it down - it appeared to be more money friendly :) .
K9 May 3rd, 2004, 12:15 PM

If you're in the US or Canada (and I know this excludes many members) then one of the best places you'll find is http://www.magnesiumsales.com/index.html . Compare that
price to a firestarter bar which is roughly 40-50 grams.
tmp May 3rd, 2004, 12:40 PM

K9, I've bought magnesium from the link you supplied. The prices are very
reasonable in any quantity, especially on the higher end. It comes in blocks
or sections of a block depending on how much you order. It grinds up easily
on a bench grinder. Be careful though, too much friction from the grinding
wheel could cause it to ignite. The Mg in course grade is more flammable
than my finest powdered aluminum.

Grinding magnesium is a very hazardous process because of the inevitable dust build up. One friction spark or a magnesium particle getting sucked into the air vent of your
grinding machine...BOOM.
There's a vid somewhere that shows a dust explosion of 1g of aluminium. Take a look at it.
Tuatara May 3rd, 2004, 07:44 PM

Hows this for an Mg source:
Vifa make loudspeakers. The basket on the 10" woofer is made of Mg. So when your 250W amplifier blows up and toasts your Vifa woofer, save the basket for the Mg. There's
probably a good 100g or so there, for only US$60! And you get a free magnet too!
Guess who is speaking from experience ...
Child-of-Bodom May 11th, 2004, 10:16 AM

If you want to grind block of metal, you can think of http://members.shaw.ca/justin.le/grinder/grinder.html (a metal grinder)
It'a a machine wich grind any metal with sandpaper.
A friend of my build one like this, and it works very good! the yield is nog that high, but it can run day and night. It took about 6 hour to get 30-40 gram. He used sandpaper
mesh 320 to obtain very, very fine powder wich gave high quality flash if mixed with KClO
In order to prevent a dust explosion, white spirit is dripped on the sandpaper.
In a boatshop you can buy Mg anodes, they're not that exensive - 1,3 Kilo for ~17,5 $ I paid
I hope I helped you a little,

greets,
COB

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > DEA Agent Shot Himself - whoops
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View Full Version : DEA Agent Shot Himself - whoops
GibboNet May 4th, 2004, 02:22 AM

This is a great story ! Turns out the DEA agent took his gun from it's holster in front of his audience, removed the magazine, and racked back the slide. He even got a member
of the audience to check the chamber and confirm it was empty, before he released the slide, accidentally shooting himself in the leg.
Read the rest of the story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=816&ncid=816&e=7&u=/ap/20040501/ap_on_fe_st/gun_safety_shooting
I just posted this on my site last night, but I thought some of you here might enjoy it. I'm still not sure how he shot himself with an unloaded gun.... but obviously something
went wrong. :rolleyes:
tmp May 4th, 2004, 03:16 AM

You should have seen the former governor of Maryland, Parris Glendening,
trying to demonstrate the ease of getting a gun lock off a revolver before a
bunch of news reporters. 2 minutes later, to the laughs of the audience, he
still couldn't get the lock off ! He and that DEA agent must be members of
the putz club !
aikon May 4th, 2004, 04:04 AM

The really fun thing is that this incident happend during a GUN SAFETY presentation to children!
At first he tries to convince his little listeners to stay away from drugs because they are bad and make you dumb. Next he shot himself in the leg. Maybe he didn't listen to his
own advice:) Keep clean
zaibatsu May 4th, 2004, 04:25 AM

I really can't understand how this could happen. Perhaps a round was held by the extractor and not ejected and they didn't notice it? Letting the slide snap back could give the
firing pin enough inertia to set off the primer. But I think even this is highly unlikely, what with the DEA and other 3 letter orgs being paranoid about security devices on
handguns, I'd be very suprised if it didn't have a firing pin lock, stopping the firing pin moving unless the trigger is pulled.
Crazy things happen though.
Bert May 4th, 2004, 04:42 AM

He got exactly what he deserved for taking someone else's word that the weapon was cleared. I hope his audience took that lesson to heart!

Peculiar thing is this: ...one shot fired into the top of his left thigh. The gun was pointed at the floor.
Heh it seems like that the agent was lying on the floor...
But I heard about similar accident with Norinco 1911... Some guy cleaned it, assemble it, put a cartridge in the chamber and release the slide... The problem was that in
Norinco 1911 is firing pin hold in slide with small slat, which was in this case improperly set and the firing pin was stuck in a hole in it. When the guy release the slide, the stuck
firing pin hit the primer and bang! He was wounded on the leg.
Maybe some relative of this agent :) !
vulture May 4th, 2004, 11:59 AM

He drew his .40-caliber duty weapon and removed the magazine, according to the police report.
The agent was treated at Orlando Regional Medical Center and returned to work, a DEA official said.
One would think that if you fired a .40 bullet into your upper leg from point blank that your leg would be seriously fucked, no?
zaibatsu May 4th, 2004, 12:17 PM

It really depends where he hit it I should think. Don't know about the DEA, but I think that the FBI are really concerned about penetration over expansion, so it's possible the
bullet passed straight through the leg without much damage, or just sliced the side. Reporters do like to exagerate a little.
Ropik May 4th, 2004, 12:52 PM

If he hit the femur, he has most probably ugly shattering-type fracture and this is not good because every femur holds 50% body mass. On the other side, full-jacketed bullet
isn't so destructive to mere flesh. It leaves only clean hole which heal without extremely serious consequences most of the time.
Bigfoot May 6th, 2004, 12:07 AM

...not good because every femur holds 50% body mass. ...
Only if he's standing up! Or kneeling. Crap. I'd like to see some videotape of how he did that. Was his foot on the chair while standing?
aikon May 6th, 2004, 06:49 AM

...I'd like to see some videotape of how he did that....
Just wait a couple of months. I'm sure we see our little DEA agent again. Next time he's a member of the darwinawards family. :)
http://www.darwinawards.com/

Yes, but this was mentioned as: it isn't good because femur supports the body and thus healing is extremely long.
matjaz May 6th, 2004, 10:48 AM

...I think that the FBI are really concerned about penetration over expansion...
Just remembered a scene from The silence of the lambs movie where Jodie F. puts a ring of ammo into her revolver. They look like hollow point bullets. Expansion type, right?
Don't take me too seriously on this one! I know it's just a movie :).

After the LA bank robbery, concerns were raised over the lack of penetration of the (silvertip?) bullets they were using. After this, I think they specified a depth of something
like 18" in balistic gelatin, to ensure the bullets could reach vital organs regardless of the position of the human body. Of course, this can result in overpenetration, and I'm not
too up-to-date with recent developments.
nbk2000 May 6th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Piggies like using the most destructive and lethal bullets they can, as they don't have a Geneva Convention obligation to use FMJ, so his leg was probably torn up real good.
Couldn't have happened to a better person, either, than a DEA agent. :D
Narkar May 9th, 2004, 02:54 PM

I dont understand how this could have happened?
If there magazine is removed, the chamber empty, how can an idiot shoot himself? That would be like shooting yourself with a broomstick?
And even if the chamber was loaded, why did the gun fire when the slide was released? Pistols are designed to be reloaded slide back, then let the slide release and chamber a
new round ready to fire.
Even the Tokarev-Tula 33, which has no safety exept half-cock and is about the most basic pistol, shouldnt fire when slide is released. Much more if the chamber is empty and
the magazine removed.
Impossible. Probability is the same as surviving a russian roulette with a pistol.

Im sure the news reporters made half the story up.
nbk2000 May 10th, 2004, 02:19 PM

"Nothing is sufficiently idiot proof that a sufficient idiot can't overcome it."
:D
JoeJablomy May 10th, 2004, 02:46 PM

What if he released the slide with the trigger pulled? I'm no expert on pistol mechanisms and triggers in general, but I suppose that might do it. How he managed to have a
round in the gun after clearing it is something of a mystery, unless there was a round stuck in the chamber and the audience member didn't know to say anything. A lot of
people approach machines the way I approach art and music: I don't know what I'm talking about so I don't say anything.
Anyway, you're right, I can't think of anyone better suited to make the sacrifice to show us all that the gun safety rules are not overly cautious.
As for thw wound from a .40, I'd expect a nice wide channel, probably a couple inches wide, which would be a huge pain to walk on. He's probably got desk duty for a couple
months (he's probably a fucking bureaucrat anyway).
Even with an emphasis on penetration, .40 is supposed to be very effective, some loads are rated higher than .45 loads for self defense. Unless he grazed himself, he's lucky
he missed his femoral artery.

I shouldn't think that semi-automatic pistols would fire a round if you held the trigger down while letting the slide snap back, then you'd have a fully automatic pistol...
nbk2000 May 11th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Full auto....only until the disconnector disengaged the firing pin upon the slide retracting after the first shot, thus resulting in a fully automatic single shot pistol. :D
Child-of-Bodom May 11th, 2004, 06:17 PM

hmmm even in Holland something like this never happened (as far as I know)
The cops here have a Walther P5, bad choice anyway - first there were problems that the gun fired when it was dropped. So they made one or another spring a little bit
weaker. Now sometimes they have to pull the trigger twice...
They also can't shoot here, they have to do 4 (!) shooting courses a year...while a sportshooter (like me) have to have 12 courses for 1 gun, + 6 courses for each gun more. 5
guns is the max here.
With a course I mean a visit at the shootingclub, where you have to let sign a 'book' to proof that you've shoot that evening.
I would like to do a shooting contest with a cop...

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tingtao November 12th, 2003, 02:58 AM

Microtek November 12th, 2003, 07:33 AM

Rhadon November 12th, 2003, 07:47 AM

Anath November 12th, 2003, 08:03 AM

Jacks Complete November 12th, 2003, 10:43 AM

zeocrash November 12th, 2003, 03:05 PM

ALENGOSVIG1 November 12th, 2003, 03:51 PM

You can fit a gig on some of those tiny buggers.

Sparky November 12th, 2003, 05:18 PM

tingtao November 12th, 2003, 06:45 PM

Tuatara November 12th, 2003, 07:11 PM

Anath November 13th, 2003, 05:27 AM

Wild Catmage November 13th, 2003, 06:27 AM

Rhadon November 13th, 2003, 05:41 PM

tingtao November 14th, 2003, 03:07 AM

Thanks again guys for your input.

James November 15th, 2003, 03:16 AM

Anthony November 15th, 2003, 07:58 AM

Passphrase FAQ, 5.2:

Jacks Complete November 15th, 2003, 07:55 PM

Obviously, this is very dumb.

tingtao November 15th, 2003, 10:05 PM

Now I'm all geared up!

xyz November 16th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Jacks Complete November 16th, 2003, 03:21 PM

Bert November 16th, 2003, 05:03 PM

tingtao November 16th, 2003, 11:06 PM

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I_am_the_Black_one November 15th, 2003, 08:22 AM

Seems an ok idea any comments?

Lil_Guppy November 15th, 2003, 08:41 AM

"Suddenly, we have Internet access anywhere for free." - No we dont.

All that aside, think of the costs involved!!

Just my two cents...

Chade November 15th, 2003, 08:48 AM

I_am_the_Black_one November 15th, 2003, 08:52 AM

It also takes a bit of strain off the ftp

Shoot me down its just nice bit of info i picked up

Lil_Guppy November 15th, 2003, 08:52 AM

Goes off to tinker with mIRC

I can't believe I said nonsensical nonsense...sigh