Are Often Taught in Law Office Settings With Modern Video Tape Tech
Are Often Taught in Law Office Settings With Modern Video Tape Tech
Are Often Taught in Law Office Settings With Modern Video Tape Tech
INTRODUCTION
FORREST S. MOSTENI
tings of traditional bull-pen law school classrooms, Professor Louis Brown invented
the Law Office Classroom. See Brown The Law Office-A Preventive Law Laboratory,
104 U. PA. L. REV. 940 (1956); Brown, Bring the Law Office to the Classroom, 36 S.
CAL. L. REV. 497 (1963); Brown, Lawyers---The Law Office Classroom Needs You, 8
BEVERLY HILLS B.J., Mar.-Apr., 1974, at 37.
Professor Brown has encouraged and/or funded law office classrooms at the many
law schools including: University of Notre Dame, University of Toledo, University of
Oregon, Antioch University, Harvard University, University of San Diego, University
of Iowa, Villanova University, University of Nebraska, McGeorge University, Univer-
sity of Virginia, University of Maryland, and University of Baltimore.
6. Since his first book on Preventive Law was published in 1950, Professor
Brown has written 7 books and over 200 articles developing his prescription. His biog-
raphy alone (through 1984) covers 48 pages.
1985] INTRODUCTION
While Professor Brown has been the beacon in law office law
generally, Professor David Binder and Dr. Susan Price have helped
pioneer the study and teaching of the interviewing and counseling
process itself with their book Legal Interviewing and Counseling A
Client-CenteredApproach (West Publishing Co. 1977).
The insightful review of the Binder/Price book by Professor
Alan H. Frank and Dean Janet Boettcher Krause of the University
of Nebraska is divided into three parts: (1) a concise summary of the
book; (2) criticism of the book's deficiencies; and (3) an application of
the Binder/Price legal interviewing-counseling model to teaching
that process to law students.
The chapter by chapter analysis of the book is an excellent intro-
duction to the model. Having used Binder/Price in law school and
professional training since 1975 when it was still in manuscript form,
this writer found that the Frank-Krause summary offers a refreshing
look at the totality of the model that is helpful to teacher and stu-
dent alike.
The reviewers' main criticism of the Binder/Price book echoes
the message of Professor Brown: the book overstresses litigation.
Frank and Krause find the book's preoccupation with litigation
"somewhat ironic in view of the fact that in good measure the same
impetus that gave rise to increased emphasis on teaching counseling
skills to law students also generated heightened interest in instruc-
tion in non-adversarial planning skills."
The reviewers forgive the authors' focus on litigation by conclud-
ing that the Binder/Price model is equally applicable to decision
making in the planning context. Frank and Krause demonstrate
their belief and adoption of the Binder/Price model by sharing their
pedagogical experiences in utilizing the book and teaching manual in
their courses at the University of Nebraska. Frank and Krause de-
scribe their struggles and successes of adapting the model of the
classroom:
"Whatever its [the book's] shortcomings as a treatise on client
7. See R. FISHER & W. URY, GEITrING TO YES (1981); Meadow, Toward Another
View of Legal Negotiation: The Structure of Problem Solving, 31 UCLA L. REV. 754
(1984).
1332 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18
counseling, and they are few, the volume's real measure is how well
it achieves its objectives in the classroom. It does so exceedingly
well."
The reviewers cover such teaching concerns as the scope of a
legal interviewing counseling course, order of topic presentation, time
constraints, and the motivation and resistance of students.
By defying customary law review style with their disclosure of
how the book under review has affected the teaching of real students,
the reviewers have elevated an excellent book review into a work of
pedagogical insight.
8. The 1985 Standards for Judging promulgated by the American Bar Associa-
tion/Law Student Division Client Counseling Competition Committee are reprinted in
the Appendix following this introduction.
9. See Introduction to the 1985 Standards for Judging reprinted in the Appendix
infra.
10. See Standards II, III, VI, and VII in the 1985 Standards for Judging reprinted
in the Appendix infra.
11. As surprising as it may seem today, the effort to formulate standards for the
Client Counseling Competition was the first time that any standards were promul-
gated to evaluate a lawyer-client consultation. The project to refine these standards
has been and continues to be onoging.
12. See Mosten & Briggs, The Role of the Therapist in the Co-mediation of Di-
vorce (to appear in 1985-86 Winter-Spring issue of the Journalof Divorce).
13. This type of interdisciplinary activity is on the cutting edge of current devel-
opments in professional responsibility. Issues include fee splitting, unauthorized prac-
19851 INTRODUCTION 1333
tice, and confidentitality. The standards (or lack thereof) often differ significantly
between and within professions.
14. Some inspirational examples of mental health professionals serving as mem-
bers of law facilities include the following:
Dr. Andrew Watson is a psychiatrist-lawyer at the University of Michigan who
holds a joint appointment at the law and medical schools. Dr. Watson is a pioneer in
the conceptualizaiton of the lawyer consultation. See A. WATSON, THE LAWYER IN THE
INTERVIEWING-COUNSELING PROCESS (1976); Watson, Some Psychological Aspects of
Teaching Professional Responsibility. 16 J. LEGAL EDUC. 1 (1963); Watson, Profession-
alizing the Lawyer's Role as Counselor: Risk Taking for Rewards, 1979 ARIZ. ST. L.J.
17; Watson, The Quest for Professional Competence: PsychologicalAspects of Legal Ed-
ucation, 37 CIN. L. REV. 91 (1968).
Dr. Murray Blumenthal, a psychologist, is a tenured member of the law faculty of
the University of Denver and principal drater of the ABA Client Counseling Competi-
tion Standards for Judging. See note 8 supra.
Dr. Robert Redmount, a clinical psychologist-lawyer, is a noted author of works on
the lawyer as "counselor" and serves as a lecturer and consultant to several law
schools in the humanization of law school education. See T. SHAFFER & R. REDMOUNT,
LEGAL INTERVIEWING AND COUNSELING (1980); Redmount, Marriage Problems, Inter-
vention, and the Legal Professional,50 CONN. B.J. 11 (1976); HumanisticLaw Through
Legal Counseling, 2 CONN. L. REV. 98 (1969); Redmount, Perception and Strategy in
Divorce Counseling, 35 CONN. B.J. 249 (1960); Redmount, New Dimensions of Profes-
sional Responsibility, 3 J. LEGAL PROF. 43 (1978); Redmount, Toward A Lawyering Ju-
risprudence, 2 J. LEGAL PROF. 24 (1979); Redmount, Law As A Psychological
Phenomenon, 18 AM. J. JURIS. 80 (1973); Redmount, Attorney Personalitiesand Some
PsychologicalAspects of Legal Consultation,109 U. PA. L. REV. 972 (1961).
Other psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and clergy serve in ongoing roles
at law schools throughout the country and are instrumental in changing the view of
lawyering.
1334 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18
15. Personally, I find that each year my own interviewing and counseling skills
undergo an improvement during the month following the National Client Counseling
Competition.
16. An example of such participation is the contribution of Harold Rock, Esquire,
of Omaha, Nebraska, a partner in the national law firm of Kutak, Rock & Campbell.
After serving as a judge in client counseling competitions, Mr. Rock served on the Cli-
ent Counseling Committee with distinction for nearly a decade and facilitated coopera-
tion between the competition and the practicing bar.
17. The Client Counseling Competition has a miniscule annual budget of less than
$20,000 and now has a permanent committee of three professionals and a law student
1985] INTRODUCTION 1335
director that changes yearly. The current professionals are: Professor Gerald A. Rault
(Loyola, New Orleans); The Honorable Fred J. Williams; and Jerry Bloom, Esquire.
Michael Nay Couick, Esquire, chairs the Law Student Division Competition Commit-
tee.
Since the inception of the competition, law students have been full members of
the Committee and have made significant contributions. For example, Carole Rouin
(1982-83, McGeorge Law School) initiated an alumni program to involve former com-
petition participants as judges, coaches, and committee resources; Mitch Kingsley
(1983-84, Loyola-Chicago Law School) was instrumental in promoting the competition
throughout the country and offered insightful input in competition policy decisions;
Kim Kirn (1984-85, Notre Dame Law School) was appointed National Student Director
of the competition and assumed a professional role in coordinating the administration
of the competition with the ABA Law Student staff, the committee, and the law
schools.
The ABA Competition Committee depends on the in-kind contributions of (1) law
school, faculty, and administrative support, (2) volunteer lawyers and mental health
professionals to serve as judges, and (3) the work of hundreds of volunteer students.
This in-kind support has been valued at over $1 million annually. The very fact that
law schools and practitioners choose to contribute their time and resources to this ex-
tent is but one indication of the value of the Competition.
1336 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18
This article should become part of the training for the Client
Counseling Competition because it is a ready reference for the princi-
pal professional responsibility issues that a student is likely to en-
counter in the Competition and in practice.
The specific training concerns for the Client Counseling Compe-
tition is the focus of the other student article: Suggestions for Suc-
cessful Interviewing in the ABA Client Counseling Competition.
Faculty advisors and afficionados of the Client Counseling Competi-
tion are hard pressed to offer any simple "winning formula for suc-
cess" in the Competition. Since only about half the schools in the
Competition offer course work in counseling, students in other insti-
tutions eager for the experience enter the competition with little or
no instruction or guidance. The author offers sound advice for those
students as well as others who are more. fortunate to receive appro-
priate instruction and coaching. Particularly helpful to all students is
the walk-through the Competition's Standards for Judging and the
sample note-taking format.
This student article demonstrates that vast amount of training
and reflection that each student must undergo about the lawyering
process before the client ever walks into the office. It is this new
type of "thinking like a lawyer" that Professor Louis Brown yearned
for in developing the Client Counseling Competition and which will
augur well for training healers and helpers of clients for decades into
the future.
This law review issue takes a look at the 1985 "State of the Art"
in client interviewing and counseling. But, what does future explora-
tion into this field protend?
Brilliant scholarship has been developed in the appellate case
method of studying. What about the "law office case method"?
Couse materials might be developed to include consultation dialogues
to be intergrated into the standard curricula. Such dialogues do ap-
pear in references on the lawyering process as demonstrated by
Brown and Martzell in this issue. Yet, students in contracts, wills,
trusts, and other subjects would benefit from focusing on these dia-
logues and questions: What are the substantive issues raised? What
are the procedural issues? What are the human factors? What solu-
tions are available? In this way, the definition of "thinking like a
lawyer" might undergo an early and profound transformation.
Current thinking about interviewing and counseling generally
presumes that the legal consultation is the bridge between the cli-
ent's pre-consultation life and subsequent lawyering activity. The
1338 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18
21. Works focusing on process that link the consultation with subsequent lawyer-
ing include: G. BELLOW & B. MOULTON, THE LAWYERING PROCESS (1978); L. BROWN &
E. DAUER, PLANNING BY LAWYERS: MATERIALS ON A NONADVERSIAL LEGAL PROCESS
(1978); and D. BINDER & S. PRICE, LEGAL INTERVIEWING AND COUNSELING: A CLIENT-
CENTERED APPROACH (1977).
22. See Goldsblatt, Legal Audit: A Useful Tool for the Corporate Lawyer, 3 PRE-
VENTIVE L. REP. 162 (1985); Brown, ProvidingPreventive Legal Care in PrepaidLegal
Service Plans: The Periodic Legal Check Up, 2 PREVENTIVE L. REP. 102 (1984); Brown,
Legal Audit Update, 54 N.Y. ST. B.J. 282 (1982); Brown, Periodic Check Up: Report of
Law School Term PaperProject,29 J. LEGAL EDuC. 438 (1978); L. BROWN, MANUAL FOR
PERIODIC CHECK UPS (1983); L. BROWN & E. DAUER, supra note 21, at 335-58.
1985] INTRODUCTION 1339
Appendix
1985
CLIENT COUNSELING COMPETITION
STANDARDS FOR JUDGING
STUDENT ATTORNEYS
JUDGE
DATE
TIME ROOM
The use of the following standards recognizes that there are many effective styles
of legal interviewing and counseling and there is no set pattern of problems presented
to attorneys by their clients. However, the criteria are based on the belief that in or-
der to work effectively with the clients, attorneys would have to, at a minimum:
* Establish effective relationships with their clients.
* Learn how clients viewed their problems and their situations.
* Learn the clients' initial goals and expectations.
* Analyze the clients' problems.
* Develop alternative "solutions" for the clients' problems.
* Assist clients in their understanding and to make informed choices among
alternatives.
* Recognize and deal with moral and ethical problems.
* Effectively conclude the interview.
* As legal counselors, be able to learn from their interviewing and counseling
experience.
Thus, we ask that you use the following standards together with your experience
and best judgment as a basis for comparing the students and to help them learn from
their participation in the competition.
In arriving at the final overall rating, we recommend that judges do not attempt to
translate the ratings into numbers or add them up in a numerical way, since the scales
are not necessarily of equal weight.
II. Description of the Problem Learned how the client viewed his or her situation,
using a combination of listening and questioning, drawing out both information
and feelings as appropriate, to develop a reasonably complete and reliable de-
scription of the problem.
III. Client's Goals and Expectations Learned the client's goals and initial expecta-
tions and modified or developed these as necessary.
IV. Problem Analysis Analyzed the client's problem with creativity and from both
legal and non-legal perspectives, resulting in a clear and useful formulation of
the problem.
V. Moral and Ethical Issues Recognized, clarified and responded to any moral or
ethical issues which may have arisen, without being prejudicial in judgments.
VI. Alternative Courses of Action Consistent with the analysis of the client's prob-
lem, developed a set of potentially effective and feasible alternatives, both legal
and non-legal:
VII. Client's Informed Choice As appropriate, assisted the client in his/her under-
standing of problems and solutions and in making an informed choice, taking po-
tential legal, economic, social and psychological consequences into account:
VIII. Effective Conclusion Concluded the interview skillfully, and left the client with
a feeling of reasonable confidence and understanding, with appropriate reassur-
ance, and with a clear sense of specific expectations and mutual obligations to
follow.
XI. Overall Rating Synthesizing the above criteria as relevant in an overall rating, I
view the interviewing and counseling team as: