Property talk:P1636
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Ghouston in topic Baptism implying religion
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date of baptism
date when a person was baptized. For times when only baptism records were available, this can be a good substitute for date of birth.
date when a person was baptized. For times when only baptism records were available, this can be a good substitute for date of birth.
| Description | Date a person was baptised. Important for cases with unknown date of birth. | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Represents | date of baptism (Q35966949) | ||||||||||||
| Data type | Point in time | ||||||||||||
| Template parameter | |baptism= in en:Template:infobox person | ||||||||||||
| Domain | According to this template:
People
When possible, data should only be stored as statements | ||||||||||||
| Allowed values | According to this template:
Dates
According to statements in the property:
When possible, data should only be stored as statements≤ 𝓧 ≤ unknown ≤ 𝓧 ≤ unknown | ||||||||||||
| Example | Ludwig van Beethoven (Q255) → João de Loureiro (Q729917) → | ||||||||||||
| Source | Wikipedia (note: this information should be moved to a property statement; use property source website for the property (P1896)) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1636 (Q23909046) | ||||||||||||
| <complementary property> | date of death (P570), date of burial or cremation (P4602) | ||||||||||||
| See also | date of birth (P569), date of probate (P9946) | ||||||||||||
| Lists |
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| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Type “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Type Q5, Q95074, hourly updated report, SPARQLRange from “+0001-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”: values should be in the range from “+0001-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Range, hourly updated reportDifference with “date of death (P570)” within range [-120, 0]: the difference with property “date of death (P570)” should be in the range from “-120” to “0”. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Diff within range, hourly updated reportSingle value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: Vytautas (Q218186), Jane Austen (Q36322)List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Single value, SPARQL
Qualifiers “location (P276), sourcing circumstances (P1480), age of subject at event (P3629), given name (P735), religion or worldview (P140), series ordinal (P1545), earliest date (P1319), latest date (P1326), nature of statement (P5102), statement supported by (P3680), statement disputed by (P1310), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), reason for preferred rank (P7452), refine date (P4241), godparent (P1290), subject named as (P1810)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
Conflicts with “subclass of (P279)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Conflicts with P279, hourly updated report, SPARQLRange from “+0001-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”: values should be in the range from “+0001-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Range, hourly updated reportConflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia set index article (Q15623926)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Conflicts with P31, hourly updated report, SPARQLConflicts with “coordinate location (P625)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Conflicts with P625, hourly updated report, SPARQLCitation needed: the property must have at least one reference (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#citation needed
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200), Wikibase MediaInfo (Q59712033): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Entity types
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1636#Scope, SPARQL
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This property is being used by: Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
- Disabled place of birth (P19) :
{{Constraint:Item|property=P19}} - Disabled date of birth (P569) :
{{Constraint:Item|property=P569}}
Baptism part of birth or death (or related to DOB)
editIs baptism part of birth or death [1] as User:Jura1 suggests? Frank Robertson (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Here is the better diff: diff.--- Jura 14:55, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- You choose to not answer the question? Frank Robertson (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- With "description" (in your diff), I meant the text added in the second diff. It also appears under the property label and explains the relation. --- Jura 15:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- For my understanding all three are different events, none a subclass of another. That is why I posted my question. Could you answer this yes/no-question? Frank Robertson (talk) 15:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Yes: it's related to birth. The explanation is given in my diff. --- Jura 15:27, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Can you say what kind of relation you see between birth and baptism? In the diff it says "For times when only baptism records were available, this can be a good substitute for date of birth.". Can you explain what constitutes a "good substitute" in your opinion? Frank Robertson (talk) 20:16, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Yes: it's related to birth. The explanation is given in my diff. --- Jura 15:27, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- For my understanding all three are different events, none a subclass of another. That is why I posted my question. Could you answer this yes/no-question? Frank Robertson (talk) 15:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- With "description" (in your diff), I meant the text added in the second diff. It also appears under the property label and explains the relation. --- Jura 15:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- You choose to not answer the question? Frank Robertson (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I contest "For times when only baptism records were available, this can be a good substitute for date of birth." and will remove it. Frank Robertson (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- This is also mentioned by @Gymel: at Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion#date_of_baptism_.28P1636.29 (example: Ludwig van Beethoven). Thus I restore the note. --- Jura 05:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with "For times...", but I oppose baptism being part of or property for birth or death. Petr Matas 18:10, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- Occasionally baptism is connected with birth or death, like emergency baptism (Q1431591), but it is not part of birth or death at all.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think anybody thinks it's part of birth or death. It's just related DOB and can provide a good substitute if no DOB is available. --- Jura 16:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Occasionally baptism is connected with birth or death, like emergency baptism (Q1431591), but it is not part of birth or death at all.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Usual in hours and minutes or days and months?
editIf it's generally specified as hours and minutes, I'd call it "time of baptism".
If it's specified in days and months, I'd use "date of baptism". --- Jura 14:55, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Time is the general concept and allows for specification of different precision. Frank Robertson (talk) 15:04, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah .. right. As the precious is "date" and given that is the agreed label, I restored the last version before your back and forth. --- Jura 20:54, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- "Data type: Time" and "Allowed values: Dates (possibly times)". Frank Robertson (talk) 21:35, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- time can't be entered. --- Jura 05:46, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
- Why couldn't we specify time, if it's known? Creating a separate property for it would be crazy. Petr Matas 18:54, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- Have you tried it? --- Jura 19:23, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- Why couldn't we specify time, if it's known? Creating a separate property for it would be crazy. Petr Matas 18:54, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah .. right. As the precious is "date" and given that is the agreed label, I restored the last version before your back and forth. --- Jura 20:54, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Label removal
editUser:Jura1 removed several labels [2], I reverted this. The user should stop edit warring. Frank Robertson (talk) 21:09, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Frank Robertson reverted without any explanation. --Succu (talk) 21:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is true, since addition of labels normally does not need explanation. Now User:Succu removed the labels again [3] claiming "better". Frank Robertson (talk) 21:33, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- And your rational is? --Succu (talk) 21:36, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- That it is better to have 1) labels that describe possible values and 2) translations. Frank Robertson (talk) 21:38, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- Do they? --Succu (talk) 22:01, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- That it is better to have 1) labels that describe possible values and 2) translations. Frank Robertson (talk) 21:38, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- And your rational is? --Succu (talk) 21:36, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is true, since addition of labels normally does not need explanation. Now User:Succu removed the labels again [3] claiming "better". Frank Robertson (talk) 21:33, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Removal of Wikidata property to indicate time
editUser:Succu removed "Wikidata property to indicate time" [4] - could there be an explanation? Frank Robertson (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
- What's yours? --Succu (talk) 22:01, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
"In childhood"
editThe property descriptions in different languages seem to disagree on the whether this property is for childhood baptisms only. Which one is correct? Deryck Chan (talk) 10:25, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- "in childhood" was added after a deletion debate. --- Jura 10:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Place of baptism
editThe qualifier location (P276) can be used to indicate the place of baptism. See the discussion at Wikidata:Property_proposal/place_of_baptism.
--- Jura 09:33, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Baptism implying religion
editAccording to a discussion at Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2020/03#Date_of_baptism/religion and Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2020/03#Date_of_baptism_and_religion,_continued, being baptised by a particular religious group isn't itself sufficient evidence that a person has followed a particular religion in any meaningful way. In particular, there shouldn't be a constraint that requires a religion or worldview (P140) statement. The religion or worldview (P140) statement should be added as a qualifier on the date of baptism (P1636) statement instead. Ghouston (talk) 04:20, 9 April 2020 (UTC)