Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/January 2016: Difference between revisions
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There's discussion at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 January 10#Bickyburger]] about redirects for Gōyā and Nūyaru burgers, mostly hinging on whether these are variants exclusive to [[Jef]] or not. Help is appreciated. --[[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 17:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
== Translation help ==
I'd appreciate help with translation of wood related terms from [http://bunka.nii.ac.jp/heritages/detail/136417] : 槫へぎ, 春木作り, 指物大工, 柄屋, 桶屋, 曲げ師. Thanks. [[User:Bamse|bamse]] ([[User talk:Bamse|talk]]) 10:11, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
:Sorry, I don't know those ones. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 20:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
:Though, here's my guess at them:
:*槫へぎ - no idea, it literally means "hearse splint", which doesn't make any sense to me
:*春木作り - made from young wood (perhaps green wood? not sure...), maybe [[green woodworking]]?
:*指物大工 - joinery carpenter (one that uses traditional joinery, I'm guessing), see [[joiner]]
:*柄屋 - handle/knob designer or maker (since 屋 can refer to the person as opposed to the place), not sure if there is an English equivalent word for that, maybe [[woodturner]]?
:*桶屋 - [[Cooper (profession)]]
:*曲げ師 - not sure, it means "master bender", so perhaps someone who is expert at forming wood using wet wood or forms to bend the wood into a particular shape? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 21:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Not sure how helpful that is. I'll see if someone from the Japanese Wikipedia can come help here. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 21:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
:*槫へぎ (kure hegi) lumber slicing, thin board slicing (for roofing board)
:::槫([[Kyūjitai]]) 榑([[Shinjitai]]): lumber, thin wooden board[http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/64518/meaning/m0u/%E6%A6%91/] [http://増殖難読漢字辞典.com/honbun/zoukan-5c54.html]
:::へぎ(片木, 折) (noun) verb: へぐ、はぐ ([[Kyūjitai]]: 剝ぐ, [[Shinjitai]]: 剥ぐ) Strip/slice/peel [https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%81%B8%E3%81%8E%E6%9D%BF-1410994][http://www.town.agematsu.nagano.jp/kankou/buy/hegi.html]
:*春木作り (Haruki zukuri) preparing firewood/chopping firewood. Firewood is called ''haruki' in [[Hida, Gifu]].[http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~jf3t-sgwr/2003/hida/hidanosato.htm]
:*曲げ師 An artisan who makes 曲げわっぱ (mage wappa).[https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E6%9B%B2%E3%81%92%E5%B8%AB%E3%80%80%E3%82%8F%E3%81%A3%E3%81%B1&biw=1407&bih=742&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV6Jy9553KAhVjG6YKHTQiCucQ_AUIBygB]
::―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 22:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:Bamse|bamse]] ([[User talk:Bamse|talk]]) 10:27, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
== Glossaries for the project ==
One thing that may be useful to the project is to create a series of glossaries and reference pages which give standard English translations for Japanese terms. We have two such pages already:
*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Film credits glossary|Film credits glossary]]
*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Place names with unusual readings|Unusual place names]] (not really a glossary, but a pronunciation guide)
Based on the section above this one, it may be good to have one for woodworking terms. Any others people would find useful? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 21:21, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
:I started one for arts and crafts words at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Arts and crafts glossary]]. Feel free to expand it with more words. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 19:16, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, good idea. How about moving those into article space, like [[Glossary of Japanese swords]], [[Glossary of Shinto]] or [[Glossary of Japanese Buddhism]]? [[User:Bamse|bamse]] ([[User talk:Bamse|talk]]) 21:10, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
::"Arts and crafts" might be a bit broad. [[User:Bamse|bamse]] ([[User talk:Bamse|talk]]) 21:39, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
:::For now, I think it would be good to build it up and add references. If it gets sufficiently large, we can move it to the mainspace. The scope is broad because I wasn't sure how narrow it should be. We can always adjust it later. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 18:29, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
== Daijobu/Daijobanai at [[Japanese grammar]] article ==
* {{la|Japanese grammar}}
Hi. The editor {{U|Takahiro4}} has now repeatedly removed a small section from the [[Japanese grammar]] article which mentions how ''daijobanai'' is very occasionally seen as a casual verb-style corruption of {{Nihongo||大丈夫|daijōbu}}. I've pointed out the example of the song title "Daijobanai" by [[Perfume (Japanese band)|Perfume]] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1N8fyAwIsQ]), but this was dismissed as being just one example (even though the article text does say it's "rare"). The bit about "daijobu" not being conjugated as "daijonda" was also removed by the same editor with an edit summary saying that "daijonda" doesn't exist (which is exactly what the text is saying), so I suspect that the editor has problems with English comprehension.
The text in question seems reasonable to me, but since it is not actually backed up by a specific reference source, should it be left out or restored as a useful example of non-standard corruptions of noun forms like "daijobu"? --[[User:DAJF|DAJF]] ([[User talk:DAJF|talk]]) 10:07, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
:Neither ''daijoba-nai'' nor ''daijo-nda'' are considered as a standard Japanese. [[Perfume (Japanese band)|Perfume]]'s lyric is nothing other than a coined word. We should wait for at least ten years if it becomes a common Japanese usage. The paragraph was added by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Japanese_grammar&diff=649940976&oldid=649273690 this edit]. Current standard Japanese is either ''daijobu de(wa) nai'' or ''daijobu ja nai'' not ''daijoba nai''. It shouldn't be in the article unless the article is about the Japanese slang.―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 10:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
: I think the text should be left out. It is a nonce usage, and in any language, any rule can be broken for effect (or is it affect?)... this does not contribute to understanding. [[User:Imaginatorium|Imaginatorium]] ([[User talk:Imaginatorium|talk]]) 13:13, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
::The problem with "daijonda" not existing is that it's an invention of the editor = original research. The same goes for nouns ending in "u". This is a rule? Ideally we want a reference for all of that. I have heard the term ''daijoba-nai'', and agree with [[User:Imaginatorium|Imaginatorium]] that it's used for humorous effect. It doesn't really belong unless we have a section about breaking rules for humor. – [[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 13:42, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, "daijobanai" is not real Japanese. It's made up for that song. Base on conjugation, it would like mean "if it's not all right" or something like that. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 19:10, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I was actually well aware that "daijobanai" was not correct textbook Japanese, but maybe the text removed from the article didn't make that sufficiently clear (although it did say it was a "casual corruption"). Also, it was coined as net/street slang years before the Perfume song appeared. I just used that song as one example, since that probably brought it more into the public eye. My own view is that it is informative to mention non-standard but occasionally-used casual/slang formations like this, but if the general consensus is that they are distracting, then fair enough. --[[User:DAJF|DAJF]] ([[User talk:DAJF|talk]]) 11:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
:::I must have misunderstood what you were seeking, then. If "daijobanai" is being discussed (or casual/slang terms) and it is being used as an example, it's perfectly fine to include it. Just be sure to include refs for it since it may be difficult for many people to look it up. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 18:47, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
== Testing the revised [[MOS:JA#Modern names]] ==
I've [[Talk:Hikaru_Utada#Requested move 22 January 2016|started an RM]] to test community receptiveness to the heavily revised version of [[MOS:JA#Modern names]] we now have. It seeks to move [[Hikaru Utada]] back to [[Utada Hikaru]] (which was renamed under the old 2008 version of this guideline, which strongly leaned toward Westernized name order). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 08:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
== Bot helping with categorization ==
I was thinking it might be useful to have a bot add the <nowiki>{{WikiProject Japan}}</nowiki> banner to articles in categories with the word "Japan" in them. There are just so many articles to check now that it's hard to keep up manually. Thoughts? ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 18:31, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
:Anyone have any input on this? When requesting a bot do something, we usually need to have a consensus discussion we can point to. Thanks. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 00:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:: How would the bot hondle it? Would it put the {{tl|WikiProject Japan}} banner on, say, [[David Suzuki]], who is categorized under [[:Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent]] and [[:Category:Japanese Canadian internees]] but is born and bred Canadian? [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly Turkey]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> [[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 00:57, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, since that would fall under this project being a Japan-related topic. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 04:26, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:::: So having Japanese blood is the only requirement for the {{tl|WikiProject Japan}} banner? Is there a guideline for this? [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly Turkey]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> [[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 06:21, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::Anything Japan-related falls under the scope of the project. I suppose if having Japanese blood was the ''only'' connection, that wouldn't necessarily put them within the scope, but this person was put in a <s>concentration</s> relocation camp during World War II, so they would definitely fall under the project's scope. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 18:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::: So the bot would distinguish between [[:Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent]] and [[:Category:Japanese Canadian internees]]? [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly Turkey]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> [[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 21:46, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::If you programmed it that way, yes. There can always be a list of categories it should ignore. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 22:55, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::I am not familiar with how bots work. What if somebody accidentally added an article to a "Japan" category? Would the bot also deal with removing WPJ banners? [[User:Bamse|bamse]] ([[User talk:Bamse|talk]]) 12:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
:::There would be a log that could be reviewed. We could also make an exclusion list, adding articles which may be in those categories but aren't really within the scope of this project. For an article accidentally added and later removed from those categories, we could see if the bot could review articles to which it had previously added the banner to see if they still qualified. We can request any number of features (though all might not be able to be included in the bot's tasks). ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">日本穣</span>]] · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<span style="color:blue;">投稿</span>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<span style="color:maroon;">Join WP Japan</span>]]!</small> 18:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
== One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement! ==
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Hello,<br>Please note that '''[[Izakaya]]''', which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of '''[[Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement|Today's articles for improvement]]'''. The article was [[Wikipedia:Today's article for improvement/Schedule|scheduled]] to appear on Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! <!-- Substituted from Template:TAFI project notice --><br />
<sub>Delivered by <!-- mbsig --><span style="font-family:sans-serif">— <b>[[User:MusikBot|<span style="color:black; font-style:italic">MusikBot</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:MusikAnimal|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]]</sup></b></span><!-- mbdate --> 00:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team</sub>
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==Kamen Rider Black Kohtaro Minami==
An edit war seems to encompass [[Kamen Rider Black (character)]] and {{noredirect|Kamen Rider Black RX (character)}}; see details at [[talk:Kamen Rider Black (character)]] -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.200.135|70.51.200.135]] ([[User talk:70.51.200.135|talk]]) 05:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
===Requested Move & Discussion on Romanization===
There are two separate, but related, discussions on the [[Talk:Kamen Rider Black (character)]] page - an RM, and a discussion on romanization. Input from uninvolved editors would be appreciated. - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] <sup>[[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']]</sup> 05:38, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
== The Super Girl / Supergirl ==
Some input for a Japanese name discussion would be appreciated: [[Talk:Supergirl (Japanese TV series)#Requested move 26 January 2016]]. –[[User:Dark Cocoa Frosting|Dark Cocoa Frosting]] ([[User talk:Dark Cocoa Frosting|talk]]) 18:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
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