Talk:Nikolai Luzin

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Science and Academia This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by the science and academia work group. Mathematics Mid‑priority This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mathematics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of mathematics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MathematicsWikipedia:WikiProject MathematicsTemplate:WikiProject Mathematicsmathematics Mid This article has been rated as Mid-priority on the project's priority scale.

Hi, I am a proper soviet mathematician that one can consider to have been raised under Kolmogorov's pedagogy (see his work on Olympiads and related methods of talent development in the USSR). I happened to stumble upon this page and founf that there are very few references, so I suggest everybody capable of reading cyrillic to point their browser here:

http://www.ihst.ru/projects/sohist/papers/dees99dl.htm

this is a very-very detailed discussion of Russian-Soviet mathematical society around 1930s, Luzin's case, the muppetts and the mupppet masters. Note that Dr. Alexandrov was never the starting point of the campaign, but was indeed used by the muppett masters to conduct attacks on Proff. Luzin. I'll try to contribute to this article by citing pieces from that article (translating to English, essentially) once i find a bit more time to do that. For now, keen researchers - go to the link above and God bless you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.114.249.100 (talk) 06:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that this passage is full of loaded language:

"The political offensive against Luzin was launched by not only Stalin's repressive ideological authorities but also a group of Luzin's students headed by Pavel Alexandrov...His students, participating in his political execution, never showed any remorse. The Luzin case was a prologue to the grim years of Stalin's repressions and political attacks on genetics, relativity, and other trains of free scientific thought."

Referring to the attacks as "political," Stalin's "ideological authorities," and the fact that his students "never showed remorse" all seem to indicate that the criticisms were groundless and that there should've been remorse. I don't know if that's true or not -- what evidence is there on the subject of these accusations and whether or not they were well-founded? If such evidence exists, it should be posted; if not, I'd suggest revising to something like "Some of Luzin's students were involved in accusing him of intellectual misconduct, etc." and leave it at that.

Also I think the whole passage about "the grim years of Stalin's repressions" needs to be cut. "Grim" isn't a neutral word: it's explicitly making a value judgment. I agree with the value judgment, but that's more or less irrelevant to the issue at hand. Pstinchcombe 07:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The evidence of the political nature is given (i.e. excerpt from the editorial of the official party newspaper) and the links are indicated. The Luzin case was definitely political and some of his students were definitely involved. To describe the case as accusations of misconduct is far from neutral; it is a red herring that was invented by the students that showed no remorse about the political execution of their teacher even after thirty years after Stalin's and Luzib's death. These are facts.

I remove the POV dispute tag, as Pstinchcombe has not replied for months. I don't see the language "loaded", also the words are appropriate to the context and describe well the facts. However, I agree that maybe the article lacks the linking between sentences and references.161.116.80.71 11:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I re-instated the POV tage for quite obvious reasons, most of which have been outlined above, by Pstinchcombe. I think the WP:STYLE should determine how to construct an entry about about historically established criminal acts or periods. The Gnome (talk) 13:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John Stillwell in the American Math. Monthly(March 2002) quotes Luzin as follows from Comptes rendus Acad. Sci. Paris 180 (1925) p 1818:One does not know, and one will never know, whether the projection of the complement of an analytic set(supposed uncountable)has the cardinality of the continuum,...nor whether it is measurable. This sounds like a reply to Hilbert's Wir mussen wissen, wir werden wissen of 1900 although I've read from Leo Corry that he may not have said it then.(maybe it's other way around, it's Hilbert's reply to Luzin?) At any rate if we can find some info published that says one of these is a rejoinder to the other we could put it in the article and enrich the context.Rich (talk) 02:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to include more information on the actual work of this first-rate mathematician, in addition to the non-scientific aspects already covered in some detail. Tkuvho (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Luzin wrote a letter to Vygodsky discussing the latter's infinitesimal calculus textbook. There have been several recent articles dealing with this letter. Would it be of interest to mention it here? Tkuvho (talk) 12:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have never heard about it. But why not? Sasha (talk) 16:21, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

it is interesting indeed. Sasha (talk) 15:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is a historically important letter. Karnan (talk) 17:23, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

there is no need to expand them, but it would be nice to fix the errors. For example, the account of the 1929-30 events given at Dmitri Egorov is inconsistent with what is written here. What is correct? Sasha (talk) 15:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Egorov's and Luzin's trials were for different reasons. The students did not have much of a part in the former. Karnan (talk) 17:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An image used in this article, File:NNLuzin.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:NNLuzin.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 19:14, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, my edit summary did not fit into the line. this seems to be a reliable secondary source (at least, more reliable than the tertiary McTutor). Sasha (talk) 15:23, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Nikolai Luzin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110525230252/http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/AT/LORENTZ/JAT02-0001_final.ps to http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/AT/LORENTZ/JAT02-0001_final.ps

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:37, 20 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]