Talk:Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present)

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

This  level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Africa: Burkina Faso / Chad / Ivory Coast / Libya / Mali / Mauritania / Niger / Western Sahara Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  This article is supported by WikiProject Burkina Faso. This article is supported by WikiProject Chad. This article is supported by WikiProject Ivory Coast. This article is supported by WikiProject Libya. This article is supported by WikiProject Mali. This article is supported by WikiProject Mauritania (assessed as High-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Niger. This article is supported by WikiProject Western Sahara. Algeria Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Algeria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Algeria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.AlgeriaWikipedia:WikiProject AlgeriaTemplate:WikiProject AlgeriaAlgeria articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Crime and Criminal Biography: Organized crime / Terrorism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Organized crime task force (assessed as Low-importance). This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance). History Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. France Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. International relations Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Military history: African / European / French / Post-Cold War This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces: /  African military history task force European military history task force French military history task force Post-Cold War task force Morocco Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Morocco, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Morocco on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MoroccoWikipedia:WikiProject MoroccoTemplate:WikiProject MoroccoMorocco articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Help expand the project: edit history watch purge You can help! يمكنكم أن تساهموا Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Mounir Charïbi Assess : Rate the Unassessed Morocco articles and Unknown-importance Morocco-related articles. Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to articles in Category:Morocco articles missing geocoordinate data Photo : See requested photographs in Morocco Stubs : Morocco stubs Other : Translate from Arabic: Sellam Ameziane, Mrebih Rebbu Tunisia Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tunisia, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to Tunisia. For more information, visit the project page.TunisiaWikipedia:WikiProject TunisiaTemplate:WikiProject TunisiaTunisia articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present), along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are: Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period) Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. Remedy instructions and exemptions Enforcement procedures: Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard. Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned. With respect to any reverting restrictions: Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion. Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism. Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction. Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

I suppose that for those familiar with the acronyms used this article makes sense as is, but for the rest of us defining the acronym the first time used would make this article intelligible. Mapjc 16:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it called Islamic insurgency and not just insurgency? Everyone is muslim in thathis area. You don't have something called "christian insurgency" either right? - PietervHuis (talk) 22:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The # killed figure proffered at http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11945 (6,000) and added to the infobox is for the entire Algerian insurgency since the 80s, not the GSPC/AQIM attacks since 2002, and so is inaccurate. T L Miles (talk) 18:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not according to the source: Conflict waged against the government by the Islamist militia group the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat, which has allied itself with the Al Qaeda Organisation in the Islamic Maghreb. Insurgency is marked by terrorist attacks such as suicide bombings. Death toll 6,000 on both sides. IT does not mention 1980s, it says 2002-onwards. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Nick-D (talk) 23:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Nick-D (talk) 23:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article takes some real issues, the Algerian Islamist insurgency and the new AQMI banditry in southern Algeria, Mali, Mauritania and vastly exaggerates the scope. There is no real 'insurgency' in either Tunisia nor Morocco. This article needs massive revision. --collounsbury (talk) 12:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC) As a further added comment, this article advances statements that have no basis in reality, such as "Even in major tourist countries like Morocco or Tunisia there is ongoing violence from the insurgency in all parts of the countries." This is quite simply untrue and utterly unsupported. Taking for example the Marrakech incident, there is no factual basis for connecting that to AQIM, and it is absolutely not the case that in either Tunisia or Morocco that there is any "insurgency" at all, let alone "in all parts of the countries." --collounsbury (talk) 12:45, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some further notes, it appears that an unregistered user (with this edit serieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Insurgency_in_the_Maghreb_%282002%E2%80%93present%29&direction=next&oldid=436720632) added some of the least supported material, such as the quote supra). I also question the factualness of the map, which suggests a coherent "insurgency" over a vast geographic space, a view that is to say the least, marginal and largely confined to certain American "war on terror" thinker circles. --collounsbury (talk) 15:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By all means, if you see problems that need correcting, and you have reliable sources that verify what you're saying, please go ahead and make the appropriate changes. -Kudzu1 (talk) 15:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that is part of the problem, this page is full of utterly unsupported assertions. The individual incidents are real enough, the story woven is utterly unrecognizable to myself. Proving a negative is evidently impossible, it is up to the person advancing this mythology to demonstrate it exists. This is of the worst things about wikipedia, this sort of nonsense. --collounsbury (talk) 18:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

First, the actual subject / title strikes me as incorrect. There is not an "insurgency" in the Maghreb. I am not aware of any serious support for that. There is clearly an ongoing insurgency in Algeria, and an emerging problem in the Sahel - not the Maghreb, the Sahel, as well as the Sahara. As such, I do not see any support for the overall story this article is weaving. In looking at the history, this began, correctly as an article focused on Algeria. I would remove the absurd assertions of an insurgency touching on (a) Morocco, (b) the Spanish territories, (c) Tunisia. There is absolutely no factual support in that article to support advancing the idea that there is an insurgency touching any of these territories. --collounsbury (talk) 19:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't know that there's any person specifically advancing a certain narrative. Wikipedia is a collaborative, dynamic, user-generated encyclopedia. I've definitely seen stories discussing an insurgency in the Maghreb, but I agree there doesn't seem to be a lot of basis for claiming it affects, say, Ceuta and Melilla. There have been suicide attacks in Morocco and I believe in Tunis as well; I think AQIM has claimed responsibility for those. But if you feel this article needs a rewrite and that you're qualified, I would strongly encourage you to make the changes you want to see. If that means a major reconstruction, so be it. I certainly have no objections. -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of how Wiki works, I have edited articles on the Maghreb here since 2006, when I have time, which is not greatly. There has never been a suicide bombing in Tunisia, and the Moroccan attacks have no established connexion with an "insurgency" - my job is investing in this region, I bloody well follow such things. AQIM never claimed responsbility for the Moroccan attacks as they occured before it existed, while the Marrakech attack was by two cretins who got their bomb making knowledge from internet fora. When I have time, I will edit to match reality (and as well what one can find on the actual country pages here where one can see rather readily that only Algeria matches the claims made on this bizarre page). --collounsbury (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Things have changed a great deal since this conversation. Jim Michael (talk) 10:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I am proposing to fundamentally change this article, as I believe its titling and thesis (that there is something rising to the level of an 'insurgency' in the Maghreb beyond Algeria and that the primary focus is on the Maghreb) is completely unsupported, I believe it appropriate to raise this first in Talk.

First, title and focus:

1. Numbered list item: There is not an insurgency in any ordinary meaning of the term in the Maghreb. There is an Islamic terror group insurgency in Algeria, spilling over into the Sahel. This is the AQIM movement coming out of the Groupe Salafiste
2. Numbered list item: The article advances by implication connexions between various events that are not supported (e.g. Chad, isolated events in Morocco, Tunisia - including some which pre-date the emergence of AQIM and the pretension to regionalisation.
3. Numbered list item: The title ignores what the facts and analysis indicate, the real focus of action is in the Sahel, not the Maghreb proper (ex Algeria).

I would thus propose to rename the article as Islamic Terror Movements in the Maghreb and the Sahel. alternatively it could be entitled Islamic Terror in the Maghreb and the Sahel. Or some variation on the above. I see no substantive support for using the term Insurgency outside of the Algerian context. I draw attention that if one looks at the multiple wiki pages for the Maghreb countries, one finds absolutely no support outside of the Algerian page for advancing the idea of an Insurgency. Internal to wikipedia, thus one can get a picture of a more supportable article.

I would also propose removing the map, as it has no discernable support, having been made by a wiki user and does not appear to be based on any substantive authority. Regarding support for this approach and analysis, I draw attention to these substantive analyses:

• Bulleted list item: Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb: Algerian Challenge or Global Threat?, Jean-Pierre Filiu, Carnegie Institute Papers, No. 104 (PDF): 2009 , notably discussing AQIM's capacity even to reach out of Algeria;
• Bulleted list item: Maghreb & Sahel Terrorism: Addressing the Rising Threat from al-Qaeda & other Terrorists in North & West/Central Africa, Yonah Alexander, Director International Center for Terrorism Studies, the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies January 2010 (PDF) which helpfully has on p. 2 a mapping of attack events since 11 September by country of focus (Sahel and Maghreb) rather clearly putting lie to the concept of a Maghreb insurgency (versus Algeria and perhaps Sahel) - also see p. 14. While I find the counting (e.g. Morocco as 5 in 2007, quite the 'splitter' way to count for the 2007 event) to be aggressive to say the least, at least the source is well-respected and neutral (if very security mindset).
• Bulleted list item: the 2011 update to the above report, which includes a threat map (PDF) (p. 2) that again notably highlights the locus of "hot activity" in the Sahel and Algerian Sahara.
• Bulleted list item: the post Arab spring 2012 update to the above two (PDF), with substantially the same message.
• Bulleted list item: A similar analysis by the respected Middle East Institute, "Terrorism in North Africa and the Sahel: Al-Qa‘ida’s Franchise or Freelance" Policy Brief No. 34, August 2011 (PDF), Jacques Roussellier. (an instructor at American Military University). Here again the enumerated actual incidents connected with an organized movement, AQIM, are focused on Algeria and the Sahel.

It is worth quoting the abstract. This Policy Brief examines the real and imagined influence of al-Qa‘ida in North Africa and the Sahel. Despite a perception of the transnationalization of terrorist movements in North Africa under al-Qa‘ida’s banner, robust evidence of an effective al-Qa‘ida’s expansion in the Maghreb and the Sahara/Sahel region remains elusive at best. Rather, doubts about al-Qa‘ida’s actual threat and the efficacy of international response in the context of pervasive state failure in the Sahel raise questions regarding the policy objectives of US-led counter-terrorism in the region.

I submit that the current article contains no analytical support for its thesis of an insurgency in the Maghreb, and from these three recent and respected analyses (collapsing the 3 Potomac analyses into one) from 2009-2012, it is clear that the actual nexus is the Algerian Sahara, plus the Sahel. Wikipedia has shamefully had this article up for several years, advancing a proposition that has no support in reality. The article must be utterly reworked. collounsbury (talk) 11:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article hasn't been updated since November 2011, meanwhile Northern Mali conflict (2012–present) seems to have picked up where it left off. Sort of a confusing jumble of articles: List of modern conflicts in North Africa, plus all the terrorist group articles and country history articles. And, this "article" is really just an index of external links fashionably presented as citations with short summaries. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 09:55, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article continues to be a dubious and incoherent, as User:Green Cardamom notes in Jan 2013, "this 'article' is really just an index of external links fashionably presented as citations with short summaries." collounsbury (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071009173227/http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?l=1 to http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?l=1&id=3349
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110718163746/http://www.romandie.com/ats/news/100625164542.v68jrymy.asp to http://www.romandie.com/ats/news/100625164542.v68jrymy.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 19:04, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5itMNtgXq2Fzt3u7e0pVNPcFr3Dcg?docId=CNG.02723b6732025f27b3266c9616104121.341
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090205102328/http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2690901 to http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2690901

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 07:07, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090910090709/http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/3544 to http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/3544

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:43, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Insurgency in the Maghreb (2002–present). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071218080959/http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article138051.ece to http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article138051.ece
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120308053048/http://story.middleeaststar.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/940f2bfd509e743b/id/248234/cs/1/ to http://story.middleeaststar.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/940f2bfd509e743b/id/248234/cs/1/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090803075117/http://www.france24.com/en/20090730-least-14-soldiers-killed-militants-attack-tipaza-terrorism-ambush-algeria-africa to http://www.france24.com/en/20090730-least-14-soldiers-killed-militants-attack-tipaza-terrorism-ambush-algeria-africa
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150211222554/http://lci.tf1.fr/monde/afrique/2011-01/l-ambassade-de-france-visee-par-un-attentat-a-bamako-6215345.html to http://lci.tf1.fr/monde/afrique/2011-01/l-ambassade-de-france-visee-par-un-attentat-a-bamako-6215345.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120724095405/http://www.dna-algerie.com/medias/1236-algerie-attentat-terroriste-contre-la-garde-communale-.html to http://dna-algerie.com/medias/1236-algerie-attentat-terroriste-contre-la-garde-communale-.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120308111124/http://www.tsa-algerie.com/divers/un-militaire-tue-et-deux-terroristes-abattus-a-boumerdes_15252.html to http://www.tsa-algerie.com/divers/un-militaire-tue-et-deux-terroristes-abattus-a-boumerdes_15252.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120326001054/http://www.afriquinfos.com/articles/2011/8/24/brevesdafrique-185460.asp to http://www.afriquinfos.com/articles/2011/8/24/brevesdafrique-185460.asp
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161107014115/http://www.rfi.fr/contenu/ticker/mali-casque-bleu-tue-une-nouvelle-attaque-contre-minusma to http://www.rfi.fr/contenu/ticker/mali-casque-bleu-tue-une-nouvelle-attaque-contre-minusma

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Material from this article has been copied to Wikipedia page 2010s political history.Michael E Nolan (talk) 19:38, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think that Burkina-Faso can fall under the definition. Do we have sources specifically linking Burkina Faso events to this topic?GreyShark (dibra) 05:39, 7 October 2020 (UTC) I don't think so as well. Cf. War in Sahel discussion. Bokoharamwatch (talk) 08:47, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article started out as "Islamic insurgency in Algeria", then the scope was changed to "Insurgency in the Maghreb". But over time were including information about countries with no relation to the Maghreb (Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Burkina Faso ...)

The map on the side shows which countries make up the Maghreb, which proves that the scope of this article is wrong.

I propose to split the article in two:

1. "Insurgency in the Maghreb": an article for the conflicts that are taking place in this region (Algeria, Libya and Tunisia);

2. Islamist insurgency in the Sahel: an article about the broadening of conflict in the Maghreb to the Sahel region (particularly: Mali, Niger, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Chad and Nigeria). See Guerre du Sahel on the French Wikipedia. --Fontaine347 (talk) 11:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: The insurgency has clearly spread over to countries outside the maghreb region and is more violent in the sahel region than in algeria and libya. Could we use a different name than “War” though? War makes it seem like an all out conflict in the region. I think Insurgency in the Sahel is better. Ridax2020 (talk) 12:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Corrected it, changing the proposal to "Islamist insurgency in the Sahel" as used by BBC News. I suggested "Sahel War" because the French Wikipedia uses that name. --Fontaine347 (talk) 13:14, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• agree: I agree we should change it as the Insurgency in the Maghreb(north Africa) is barely a happening anymore, the conflict is now mostly centered on the Mali-Burkina Faso-Niger boarder instead of Algeria like it used to be.--Garmin21 (talk) 16:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Are the insurgencies above & below the Sahara separate enough to warrant separate articles? If so, Sahel insurgency would be a good title for the new article to split the relevant parts of this article to. However, even with Sahel as the scope, it still doesn't cover the southernmost reaches of this insurgency, including the Grand-Bassam shootings, which took place on the south coast of Ivory Coast, which is a long distance south of the Sahel as well as the Maghreb. Also, should Islamist be in the title of the new article? Jim Michael (talk) 14:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yea lots of the violence is a mix of ethnic and religious so its not completely an Islamist insurgency. Though 99% of the insurgency is in the Sahel and the Sahara. Most of the attacks on the coast are small cells that get raided after the attack, so no insurgency has developed in the south similar to cross boarder attack in Tanzania in the insurgency in Cabo Delgado.--Garmin21 (talk) 18:05, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This attack in Ivory Coast appears to have been an isolated incident. Are there other reports of jihadist attacks in the country? The insurgency occurs mainly in the Sahel (Mali-Niger-Burkina Faso) and in the Chad Basin. With the exception of Libya, there is currently almost no insurgent activity in the Maghreb.

The proposed title "Islamist insurgency in the Sahel" is used in English and French sources. But I am not opposed to the simplified title "Insurgency in the Sahel". --Fontaine347 (talk) 15:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

attacks still happen around the mountains in northern Alegria about once a month.--Garmin21 (talk) 14:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I think we should rename it to Insurgency in North Africa.--Garmin21 (talk) 00:26, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming it to "Insurgency in North Africa" will not solve the problem, as Burkina Faso, Niger, etc. is not part of North Africa. The best solution is to split the article.--Fontaine347 (talk) 23:37, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I think we should do clear-up-process first. As you can see, I think this article has mixed contents. Like fr:Guerre du Sahel, I think we should move this article to War of Sahel, and we should delete the conflicts in Tunis, and Libya because it is not an insurgency of Maghreb and Sahel. Also we should clean up all the belligerents which is labelled as Limited involvement. -- Wendylove (talk) 10:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: A more grammatically correct title would be "Sahel War" or "War in the Sahel" as this is the literal translation of the French word. The article about the conflict in Tunisia should be kept as it is noteworthy and related to the subject. With all due respects,

  Dunutubble (talk) 21:59, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree: This discussion has been dead for a couple of months and has had no real conclusion so I thought it acceptable to bump it. Anyway, the Maghreb may still have insurgents ravaging but it's a decreasing trend as the violence has mostly moved further south to non-Maghreb areas. For a while, I actually thought there should be an article called Insurgency in Burkina Faso but I now realise that would be leaving out other countries where the insurgency is taking place like Mali (although we have Mali War) and Niger. Insurgency in the Sahel is a title I can see working. Some may say the attacks in Cote d'Ivoire may indicate that this is too exclusive but there were also attacks in Tanzania last year relating to the insurgency in Cabo Delgado and some could even say the attacks in France may be related to the intervention against ISIS. Terrorism, even by the groups in question, is not isolated to one particular region but it's only in that region where there's an actual war going on so I don't see problems with splitting the article into "Insurgency in the Sahel". The Ninja5 Empire (Talk) 00:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Some excellent points made. For example could we create a spillover or overflow article, or maybe the War in the Sahel article, as well as embracing Post Libyan civil war fighting. Still Abidjan is a long way away from the Sahel, as rightly said by others. Bokoharamwatch (talk) 08:57, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: This discussion has died in January with no resolution. It appears that everyone who took part in this discussion is in agreement that the article should be split but there is no guarantee as to what the article should be called.

@Fontaine347, Garmin21, Ridax2020, Jim Michael, 웬디러비, and Bokoharamwatch: Is there anything else you guys would like to add? The Ninja5 Empire (Talk) 22:38, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Alright. Still watching. Btw, is Tuareg-country part of the Maghreb? Bokoharamwatch (talk) 16:18, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Bokoharamwatch - Parts of it are. Dunutubble (talk) 22:01, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree: I recently created an article for its spillover in Burkina Faso (Jihadist insurgency in Burkina Faso). I created that article to contextualize pages on the recent history of Burkina Faso and I think that this could contextualize things more. I would recommend naming the proposed article as Sahel War or War in the Sahel. Dunutubble (talk) 21:54, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I support any of the suggested titles: "Islamist insurgency in the Sahel", or "Insurgency in the Sahel", or "War of Sahel".--Fontaine347 (talk) 21:25, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree but even Insurgency in Sahel is too broad, there are AQIM insurgency in Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, Boko Haram in Nigeria and the Chad Lake region Islamists in CAR, Libya and Cote d'Ivoire... and ISIS too. More should be written to said article, topics need to expand the scope on the interlocking nature of these conflicts, if there is any and to include current situations in each country. Sgnpkd (talk) 19:27, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The CAR civil war has overall very little to do with ISWAP, ISGS, and JNIM in fact it has more to do with the wars in DRC than the northwest conflicts. While ISWAP and ISGS are relatively connected but still limited so, though with the Islamists expanding to Katsina they are getting uncomfortably close to each other. The insurgency we are mostly talking about is the tri-area between Niger, Burkina Faso, and Mali and limited insurgent activities in other countries from Islamist cells moving to different locations. As far as I know, Libya plays a support role for the Islamists groups.--Garmin21 (talk) 20:20, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that the country is not part of the Maghreb region, but as far as I understand this conflict now spans across both the Maghreb and the Sahel regions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorgedweller (talk • contribs) 08:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]