Talk:Ernest Shackleton

view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is Shackleton described as British even though he was born in Ireland? A1: The entire island of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland when Shackleton was born. Shackleton and his Anglo-Irish family were therefore technically British citizens. Additionally, Shackleton is not known to have ever described himself as or considered himself to be ‘Irish’. Indeed, he was a committed British Unionist and opposed Irish Home Rule (self-government) as a member of the Liberal Unionist Party. In Shackleton’s era, Irish national identity was overwhelmingly exclusive to Roman Catholics. Protestants like Shackleton overwhelmingly identified as British and valued Ireland’s political and cultural relationship with Great Britain. This is due to the fact that Britishness and Protestantism were inextricably linked. Many Protestants feared Irish nationalism due to its links with republicanism and Catholicism. British is therefore a more accurate descriptor of Shackleton as it fits his cultural identity and political ideology. Q2: Would Anglo-Irish be a better description of Shackleton’s nationality? A2: The historical term ‘Anglo-Irish’ applies to a cultural and political class that once existed in Ireland. It does not refer to a distinct nationality or even an ethnicity. This class of people were mostly ethnically and culturally English. Most considered themselves to be British and opposed Irish nationalism.

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

	Ernest Shackleton is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 17, 2012, and on February 15, 2024.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 13, 2008 Good article nominee Listed January 14, 2008 Peer review Reviewed January 31, 2008 Featured article candidate Promoted February 14, 2024 Featured article review Kept Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on January 16, 2005, January 16, 2006, January 16, 2007, January 16, 2008, January 9, 2011, January 9, 2014, January 9, 2016, January 9, 2017, January 9, 2018, January 9, 2020, and January 9, 2021. Current status: Featured article

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: March 6 to 12, 2022

Major Sir Ernest Henry Shackleton CVO OBE FRGS FRSGS (15 February 1874 – 5 January 1922) was an Anglo-Irish Antarctic explorer who led three British ...

Children: Raymond; Cecily; Edward‎

Service years: 1901–1907, 1917–1919

Education: Dulwich College

Relatives: Kathleen Shackleton (sister)‎

is there a way we can get rid of that "CVO OBE FRGS FRSGS" but just on google because to most people it just looks like random letters Wik1234569 (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2023 (UTC) Wik1234569 (talk) 16:24, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shackleton was depicted in the 2004 episode of Might Boosh, Tundra.

https://mightyboosh.fandom.com/wiki/Tundra_(television_episode) 2600:8801:CA1D:3400:E0EC:B2EC:B8E2:371D (talk) 01:10, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shackleton's 150th birthday is 15 Febriary 2024, so I reviewed the article so see if it could be selected as today's featured article. In reviewing the article, I noticed several uncited passages and sources listed in "Further reading" that might be incorporated into the article. Is anyone willing to take a closer look at the article and possibly fix it up? Z1720 (talk) 01:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720, I suggest posting this at WT:FAC, as one of Brian's buddies will surely pick it up for a tune up (I'd do it myself, but I'm not welcome there). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SandyGeorgia: This article doesn't seem to have been nominated at FAC by BrianBoulton. Did Brian take stewardship of the article at a later date? Z1720 (talk) 13:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 ... Antarctic Exploration was Brian's main editing area, and he is the top contributor to this article. This FAC appeared before Brian's first FAC, but there's no doubt that all FA-process old-timers will think of this as part of Brian's body of work. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have reserved 15 February 2024, but it would be helpful if the article were nominated at TFAR in due course. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cross posted from FAC talk: Shackleton and Robert Falcon Scott suffered from some disruptive edits some years ago. See this when Ruhrfisch protected Shackleton. Since Ruhrfisch and Finetooth aren't around to verify that the text is okay, it needs a deep dive to check that the disruption stopped and whether the text is okay. I had both on watch for a long time but decided to remove them because there was so much edit warring. Victoria (tk) 15:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Victoriaearle: Does this mean we need to post a notice, and maybe get the FAR process started? Of course, we can always pause if someone comes forward and wants to do the checks. Another option is to revert to a version before the disruption happened. Z1720 (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dunno, haven't been following here for years. I have a vague memory of a COI editor - someone maybe whose relative wrote something? - but my memory isn't that clear. But there was a fair amount of disruption. There have reversions to clean versions over the years. For all I know the problems stopped; all I'm saying the history probably needs a deep dive to see what's going on - if anything. Victoria (tk) 16:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, those memories are coming back. In fact, it was worse ... I got some extremely strange emails, which I forwarded to Brian, and that we discussed-- I don't want to say more, as the content was quite private and personal. But with these memories jogged, yes, we may need to proceed to FAR and get more eyes on this in time for the 150th. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SandyGeorgia, Victoriaearle, Gog the Mild, and Z1720: If it helps, I've just restored the lead image. Presuming it passes - and I'm not that worried about it doing so - we could POTD him instead. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.8% of all FPs.} 02:18, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add in Sir Ernest Shackleton to the category of Irish knights - as he was born in Ireland, & was conferred a knighthood as a Knight Bachelor in 1909. - (161.29.22.96 (talk) 07:05, 20 November 2023 (UTC))[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The blazoning of the coat of arms currently reads:

"Or, on a fess Gules, three lozengy buckles, tongues paleways Gold; on a canton of the Second, a cross humettée of the Third."

but it should read

"Or, on a fess Gules, three lozengy buckles tongues paleways of the field, on a canton of the Second, a cross humettée of the field."

"Of the field" refers to the colour of the background, which is gold, but should not be literally called "gold" instead of "Or" Heraldikar (talk) 16:12, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime Phone (open channel) 16:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This page has been vandalised by several false claims using references that do not support their respective claims, e.g., reference 16 is used to support the false claim that Shackleton was proud of being Irish and defined himself as an Irishman. Reference 16 says no such thing, there is no record of Shackleton ever having said so and his life was one of British and union allegiance. This resembles the flurry of past Wikipedia entries, now corrected, that claimed that all manner of people (Robert de Niro, Bruce Springsteen, George Washington, et al) were Irish when they obviously weren’t/aren’t, presumably by some Irish zealot. These unchallenged entries diminish Wikipedia’s credibility. 12.215.51.5 (talk) 22:48, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 16 says "Ernest Shackleton never lost his deep love for Ireland and the people he grew up with. Indeed on several occasions in later life he had no hesitation at all in describing himself as an Irishman." and "Shackleton himself concurred: ‘I am an Irishman’, he affirmed on many occasions. He allowed it to enter the official record – on the third attempt to rescue his men now marooned on Elephant Island, he and Tom Crean are both listed in the log of the Emma as Irish." DuncanHill (talk) 23:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 16 is unreliable:

“Ernest Shackleton never lost his deep love for Ireland and the people he grew up with” - No quotes nor citation provided.

“The predominance of Irish blood aboard the James Caird…” - blood and soil nationalism. There is no such thing as Irish blood, only A, B, AB, O, +/-.

”Stories abound of Shackleton’s Irishness, and his willingness to vaunt the fact” - no quotes nor citations provided.

“Shackleton himself concurred: ‘I am an Irishman’, he affirmed on many occasions.” - no quotes nor citations provided.

”He allowed it to enter the official record – on the third attempt to rescue his men now marooned on Elephant Island, he and Tom Crean are both listed in the log of the Emma as Irish” - someone else listing it is not evidence of his professed identity.

“it has been said, he had ‘all the inherent characteristics of the Irishman” - again, unsubstantiated hearsay from unidentified persons.

Wikipedia’s credibility depends on verifiable references, not dewy-eyed, evidence-free invention from zealots. 12.215.51.5 (talk) 15:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DuncanHill, I have reverted the reply to the IP by our indeffed old friend, but the IP's comments here do have me questioning the sourcing for the Irishness statement. I took another look at the website for the James Caird Society, and it's pretty far from non-neutral. The homepage declares it a society dedicated to honouring the outstanding qualities of leadership associated with the name of Sir Ernest Shackleton, especially during the ill-fated but glorious Endurance Expedition, so there's no pretense there about it taking a neutral look at Shackleton. As far as the Irishness question goes, the section on that states The predominance of Irish blood aboard the James Caird for that historic rescue journey was yet another thing which has given Irishmen everywhere tremendous pride in Shackleton and his achievements. He was from the outset ‘one of us’. which is pretty far into POV territory. I'm not convinced the stuff about him being Irish should be removed, but I think we should tag it as needing a better source than solely a pro-Irish Shackleton fan organization. I've been looking at some books online, trying to find some I can pull through my library, which might provide better sourcing; even though the Jonathan Shackleton book was written by a descendant, it was published through University of Wisconsin Press, so it's a possible replacement. What are your thoughts on this? (Also pinging Wee Curry Monster as the other primary participant in the last nationality discussion, although I believe he's now inactive.) Grandpallama (talk) 02:14, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, I wonder if it would make sense to remove the James Caird Society-supported sentence about self-identification altogether and replace it with a sentence about how Shackleton was recognized in his own time as an Irishman--the sources provided in the "Public hero" section could be used to support such a statement without any controversy, I think. Grandpallama (talk) 02:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Quick Facts section says he died in South Georgia but he was only buried there. Can someone change that to match the details of the main article please? 82.11.151.195 (talk) 09:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]