Talk:Curtana

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I've been looking everywhere, both on the net and on JSTOR, for any kind of reference to a story about Curtana having been broken by an angel to prevent a wrongful killing, and so far I haven't found anything to corroborate this story even existing. Can anyone tell me where this came from or where to look to confirm that such a legend/myth was ever written? Corbmobile (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This occurs in Ogier the Dane's chanson de geste (Chavalerie Ogier) so it should be written up in that article. Ludlow's summary says the angel was St. Michael that stayed Ogier's sword, preventing the killing of Charlot who was Charlemagne's son.[1] I don't think this can be characterized as "a wrongful killing" entirely, because Charlot had killed Ogier's son over a game of chess, and he was trying to get justice for it after 14 years. --Kiyoweap (talk) 08:19, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on a thorough revision, both style and content. Besha 20:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to edit it until I've done some research on the crown jewels and the historical Curtanas, but I doubt that Curtana can legitimately be called a type of sword; it's used consistently as a proper name, though it's applied to a few different swords.

I like the restructuring of the latest edit, Fastifex. Besha 16:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to the results of your original research, and hope to find some fascinating online source coming with it. Depending on what one understands by 'type', it's not at all unlikely that a same word is used both in a general sense (as the 1911 Britannica implies, being originally an anglicized form of a non-name) and, apparantly later, one or more famous ones, which become better-known, especially of the type as such becomes obsolete and/or is no longer commonly giventhe same appelation. Fastifex 06:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Research is, in this case, a fancy word for "looking at some publications on the Crown Jewels that are maddeningly vague about the origins of the swords and not really all that helpful." Besha 17:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the reference to Ogier's Cortana being a character in Orlando Innamorato; can someone else verify it before I do? (Book I, Canto vii 1 & Book II Canto xxiii 47). Considering that the reference to the inscription was here incorrectly attached to the English Curtana, when it should have been with Ogier's, I am suspicious that this may also be inaccurate. Besha 17:14, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cortana is the name of Ogier's sword in Italian works. Ogier is named Oggero or Ugieri or whatever in Itlaian. It has been suggested that the English coronation sword "Curtana" borrowed its name from it (Arthur Taylor's 1820 book on English regalia).

I don't think the inscription should be attached to Ogier's sword either, unless someone can come up with a better source than Bulfinch.

A legitimate secondary source would comment on the inscription (or whatever comment), and indicate the primary work it came from. Bulfinch never does. --Kiyoweap (talk) 08:37, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't understand all this about "a repdroduction made in the 17th century". If that's true, where is the original sword? It can't be even "maybe" Edward's sword if it's known to be a replica. Where is the original in that case? Why is it not stored with the Crown Jewels? Worse, what's all this about "a new one made for every coronation"? That suggests that somewhere out there there is not only an actual, real Curtana, but there are also numerous replicas made at various times, each one standing in as "the" Curtana. What becomes of the old blade when a new monarch is crowned? Do they have a collection of various replica swords stashed away in a store room, along with the "retired" Real Blade, or what? A great example of one of those pieces of half-information that seems to be added to articles just to baffle and mystify people who aren't already knowledgable in the subject. Which is, of course, the best reason for wanting to read about it, which makes it all the more unfortunate when you leave with more questions than you came with. I don't see how someone thought that that piece of information added with what was already included in the article was going to be helpful to people who don't know anything about the Crown Jewels. Not that I'm much clearer on whether it's saying that some people are arguing whether the sword (the real original one?) was actually "the Sword of Tristan", which was literally used to kill a Gaelic giant, since I would have assumed that was all legendary stories if not for what it says here.

Idumea47b (talk) 06:26, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]