Talk:Svoboda (political party)

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So Vladimir Zhirinovsky isn't ultra right wing becuse he's Russian but these people are ultra right wing because they don't want to look like Russians? Somebody on Wikipedia is pushing his own racist agenda's Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that looks like a provocation... Do they do more of this kind of actions? And, if so, should it be mentioned in this article? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On site of Crimea organizatione All-Ukrainian Union "Freedom" [1] --Vasyl` Babych (talk) 20:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Batallion Nachtigal was a part of Wermacht, not SS. --149.156.67.237 (talk) 14:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well Interfax-Ukraine said it was a part of SS, so I was misinformed. Interfax-Ukraine never looked pro-Soviet, pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian nationalism to me so I assume they where misinformed to, probably by someone who wanted to make Svoboda look bad/evil... — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 15:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to Kyiv Post the party is a member of Euronat^[1], but according to the Euronat website it doesn't have any Ukrainian members... so I assume there not members. — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See http://www.svoboda.org.ua/dopysy/zmi/010319/ --Vasyl` Babych (talk) 20:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly is "Social Nationalism", and how does it differ from National Socialism? --Tavrian 21:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know much about Svoboda ideology but here is a good definition of Social Nationalism (a type of nationalism) [2]. Hope that helps. The book also says that the more common term is Civic nationalism. Of course Svoboda may mean something different. Ostap 21:30, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See here. worth mentioning in this or other articles? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 09:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I assume they mean 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Galicia (1st Ukrainian), see photo here and the "Red army fans" reaction to it here. What picture of wich statue did the "Red army fans" place on there poster? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 09:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What do the 3 upright fingers in the logo stand for and (how) is it related to the history of Ukraine? — Mariah-Yulia (talk)

Look to Coat of arms of Ukraine, lol. --Kurlandlegionar (talk) 20:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

three fingers is stylized Coat of Arms of Ukraine (and Old Ruthenia 1000 years ago) and also holy buddha-symbol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.162.43.68 (talk) 17:06, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

here + here + here, but I don't have the time now.... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 01:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

well, these are opinion pieces. Kyiv Post is notoriously anti-right and pro-yulia. the icare link obviously has a POV to push...--Львівське (talk) 03:53, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oleh Tyahnybok run those elections on a Our Ukraine Bloc ticket. But the Ukrainian wikipedia says (without a source!) that the party did run in consistency’s and sd.net says it did not run at all. Anybody good a good source on that?
— Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 03:42, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why should this article have one? Unless you think British National Front is not controversial (if so why?). The “Controversies” thingies should be placed in the rest of the article. Besides since when did wikipedia became the place to read transcriptions of Svoboda Savika Shustera (Freedom of Savik Shuster). And is it so newsworthy what Natalia Vitrenko, Hanna Herman and “Lev Myrymsky the resident of Crimea” (phrasing it that way makes it look like either Crimea has only one inhabitant or he is a significant person there… his party does not get enough votes there to be significant (around 5%)) think about "Svoboda"? I think not.
— Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 04:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Old version can be read here (in itself it is interesting, but it belongs in a +100 page biography about Oleh Tyahnybok not in wikipedia in this form). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 04:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I found the section quite good, but maybe poorly named. I think the article has some bias in it, as such, the section was a relief for it. It has a great quote from the leader.Stepanstas (talk) 21:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Professor Umland talks of "political machinations by Party of Regions that tried to split the ukrainophile national vote, and to reduce the vote count of the main opposition group, Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna party by promoting Svoboda". Since unlike the rest of the article he shows no proof I left a According to Umland "political machinations by the Party of Regions that tried to split the ukrainophile national vote, and to reduce the vote count of the main opposition group, Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna party by promoting Svoboda" out of this article. Although in the book "Virtual Politics - Faking Democracy in the Post-Soviet World" Andrew Wilson proofs this sort of practices have taken place in Ukraine (then towards Our Ukraine and Socialist Party of Ukraine). Any objection to this?
— Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 03:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since now also novelist Andrey Kurkov has also accused the Party of Regions of giving "unofficial support" to Svobada to make there main opponent BYuT weaker I decided to put those accusation into this article since they seem widespread now (Umland and Kurkov do not seem to work together). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A certain user has been adamantly attempting to change the pipe link of the group's ideology of "social nationalism" from going to Left-wing nationalism. Social nationalism is a left-wing nationalist ideology. They are synonymic. This is why the LWN article on the .ru and .ua wiki's is titled 'social-nationalism'. The user who is making the edits is well aware of this, but can't seem to wrap his head around how 'ideology' and 'political position' are two different things (that is, them being a "right wing" party with a 'left wing' position, like it's a paradox). The very fact that "social nationalism" has the word "social" in it, (socialism being the epitome of "left"), should make this dispute a non-starter, but alas, it is now. Any other users want to weigh in?--Львівське (talk) 06:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Kyiv Post describes Svoboda as the "right-wing nationalist Svoboda political party".

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency refers to Svoboda as "A right-wing nationalist Ukrainian party" that disturbs Jews.

Going back to 1997-1998, when the party used the name social-nationalist, the Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism stated that

The Ukrainian Social National Party (USNP) is an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism. It has about 2,000 members, mostly youth and young adults, in the areas of western Ukraine. Its registration by the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice in November 1995 was not rescinded even after party members caused riots in 1996 and 1997 (on May 9, Victory Day over the Germans, and November 7, Communist Revolution Day) in Lvov and other cities. Hundreds, mostly communists, were injured in these riots. ([3], emphasis mine)

Of course, "German National Socialism" is another ideological concept that sounds vaguely left-wing but is actually described by most scholars as right-wing, and not labelled "left-wing nationalist."

Since these are reliable sources (WP:RS), we need to rely on them - and not on editors' judgment about what "social-nationalist" means. To do so would be WP:OR.

Actually, what you're doing is OR. You are coming to your own conclusions on their social-nationalist program based on out of context quotes from sources.--Львівське (talk) 18:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I think you are doing OR on the basis of the name that they used. The fact that it was called the "Social-Nationalist Party of Ukraine" is not evidence of it being ideologically left-wing. If the party is introduced as "right-wing nationalist" in the Kyiv Post (no comma between right-wing and nationalist), it is "right-wing nationalist" rather than "left-wing nationalist" per WP:RS. You do need equivalent or better secondary sources (or indisputable primary ones) showing the published description of this party as "right-wing nationalist" to be out of context - and not assertions of your own. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If Sboboda is "right-wing nationalist", how can its ideology become a "left-wing nationalism" on Wikipedia?

Whatever assumptions about "social-nationalist" you may regard as true, there apparently is no evidence that the party either self-describes as "left-wing" or is actually described that way by any sources. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 17:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you're confusing 'ideology' and 'political position'. The latter defines what part of the political spectrum they lean towards, the former is, well, their program.They are two separate words and that is why right-wing and nationalist pipe link to different articles, respectively. They are a right-wing party. They are a nationalist party. What kind of nationalism? Social nationalism, a form of left-wing nationalism. There is no contradiction going on here.--Львівське (talk) 18:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I am confusing ideology and political position. (You are linking "Social-Nationalism" to left-wing nationalism in the ideology section of the infobox; I am linking to Ukrainian nationalism.) And I don't mind linking to left-wing nationalism in pinciple, but to be a left-wing nationalist party, a party must share left-wing views. To be a right-wing party, a party must share right-wing views. If sources describe the party as "right-wing nationalist," what is the problem?

In western Ukraine, in particular, but by no means limited to this region, a plethora of right-wing nationalist groups, such as the Social Nationalist Party, the Ukrainian Nationalist League, and other self proclaimed successsors to the OUN, more and more frequently insist on a hard-line nationalist policy toward Russia. . . . (Prizel, Ilya. (1994). "The influence of ethnicity on foreign policy: the case of Ukraine". In Sporzluk, Roman (ed.), National identity and ethnicity in Russia and the new states of Eurasia (Volume 2 of The International Politics of Eurasia). p. 121. New York: M. E. Sharpe. Emphasis mine.)

You may hold that the party is left-wing - for humor's sake, you may even be right. But Wikipedia is written based on what the sources tell us, not what we "know is true". Zloyvolsheb (talk) 20:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but if you reading these RS's verbatim and out of context, then what good are sources? You're reading right-wing as an adjective to nationalist, when in the LWN case its all part of a single proper noun. You say yourself that "to be a left wing nationalist party, they must share left wing views", well, by that definition the social in social-nationalism should be sticking out as what makes it politically leftist. Though they advocate social welfare, that doesn't make them a LW party, because 9/10 other things the stand for are all still RW. One LW stance on economics doesn't make them a centrist party or anything like that.--Львівське (talk) 23:22, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If sources -- the Kyiv Post, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, the Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism, Ilya Prizel (1994), how are they supposed to be read? Figuratively? Political labels don't mean as much as you believe - the Italian Social Republic was a fascist state, the Spanish Republican Social Movement is a neo-fascist group, the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia is not held up as either liberal or democratic, etc. You claim that Svoboda advocates social welfare, but then write that "that doesn't make them a LW party, because 9/10 other things the stand for are all still RW. One LW stance on economics doesn't make them a centrist party or anything like that." Well, that sure begs the question: if they are a right-wing party - "one LW stance on economics doesn't make them a centrist party or anything like that" - what makes them a "left-wing nationalist" party at the same time? Zloyvolsheb (talk) 18:41, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Alright, this wasn't too hard to dig up, just had to read the sub-section on LWN on the Nationalism wiki article, but: "Left-wing nationalism (occasionally known as socialist nationalism, not to be confused with national socialism)"

And here are some snippets from the journal article cited in that sentence:

• "‘socialist nationalism’ is here used to mean the socialist development of a democratic or radical nationalism whose origins go back to the French Revolution."
• "This latter type of nationalism, a nationalism of the right, defined the nation in quite different terms, and envisaged its unity and security as depending on the overthrow of the democratic regime and its replacement by an authoritarian system."
• "nationalism of the left with the following features. The nation is defined as a democratic community [with] its own distinguishing characteristics: a particular history, language, and culture. This particular history involves a common past of resistance to oppression and tyranny, whether internal or external to the nation. In this perspective, the nation is the context within which all citizens can participate in exercising their democratic rights and in that way shape their own destiny."
• "Right-wing nationalism defines the nation in terms of mystical non-rational or irrational concepts, such as that of race, or blood, or what Barres called ‘la terre et les morts’, the soil and the dead"

So what defines LWN from RWN is the Left is based on democracy, (socialism), and nation (ethnicity; history, language, culture). The Right is authoritarian and racialist. Svoboda is very much the former. In regards to their democratic stance, in case you were in doubt, #29: "Require the widest direct democracy in local communities - referendum, plebiscite, general meetings and so on. Hold local referendums on vital issues. Provide a mechanism for communities to veto decisions of local governments" I hope this helps --Львівське (talk) 03:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument, then, is based on the left-wing nationalism article on Wikipedia (not a reliable source), your interpretation of it in this instance (WP:OR), and your application of it to this article (WP:SYNTHESIS). That cannot work. Left-wing nationalism may have a tendency to call for democratic principles, but there is no reason to suppose that right-wing ideologies and right-wing nationalists cannot employ the rhetoric of democratic values as well. Your difficulty of interpretation is compounded by the fact that the labels used by parties like Svoboda don't always correspond to the actual substance of the ideology -- and this is pointed out in the secondary sources that discuss the Svoboda party. In this case, Andreas Umland observes that

But, it would also be difficult for national democratic groups to move from the current informal cooperation with "Svoboda" at public events or in television debates to an official alliance. The programmes of the nationalists and the national democrats do have points of contact on issues of national historiography, pro-Europeanism or anti-Putinism. What is more, Yanukovych’s recent attempts to change the Ukrainian political system have brought the interests of all nationally oriented parties closer together. The battle to preserve their organizations as significant public actors, and to protect the independence of Ukraine on the international stage, may lead to further rapprochement between the "Orange" parties and Svoboda.

But outside this context, the fundamental mindset, political ideas and future vision of Ukraine among liberal national democrats on the one hand, and ethnic nationalists on the other, have little in common. This becomes clear already from reading Svoboda’s programme. And, it should be noted that, typically for parties of this kind, official documents only partially reflect the real party ideology. They are written to comply with the political correctness of their countries, and thus are more moderate (often considerably so) than the actual, internally discussed agenda of the given organization.

. . . Tyahnybok’s party is a member of the so-called Alliance of European National Movements (AENM), which includes the French right-wing extremist Front national led by Le Pen and the Italian neo-fascist party "Fiamma Tricolore" led by Romagnoli.

Svoboda’s membership of this pan-European alliance is a good illustration of the type of nationalism represented by Tyahnybok’s movement. The AENM is not an association of parties like the Austrian Freedom Party, which could be classified as right-wing populist. Besides "Svoboda," the Front national and Fiamma Tricolore, the AENM comprises several extremely nationalist parties. These groups are even more xenophobic than the neo-populist right-wing parties that have become widespread in Europe recently. AENM members include the British National Party, the Belgian National Front, the Movement for a Better Hungary (Jobbik), the Portuguese National Renovator Party, and also the Spanish Republican Social Movement. These parties occupy the far right-wing niche in the political spectra of their countries, and exist in greater or lesser isolation from the political mainstream. (Umland, Andreas (5 January 2011). "Ukraine's Party System in Transition? The Rise of the Radically Right-Wing All-Ukrainian Association 'Svoboda'". Geopolitka Centre for Geopolitical Studies. Emphasis mine.)

And that's coherent with the way we are expected to write our articles according to policy - not based on Svoboda itself, but based on what the journalists and scholars say about it. That is made clear in WP:SECONDARY - and I will quote it to make it clear what it states in an explicit manner:

Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and to avoid novel interpretations of primary sources, though primary sources are permitted if used carefully. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
(Emphasis mine)

If you still think that "left-wing nationalist" is an appropriate way to categorize Svoboda, you need to find secondary sources to support your view. I have provided various secondary sources which assert the opposite. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 18:51, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As it currently stands you are debating the following quote, which is cited from an academic journal, that LWN is"occasionally known as socialist nationalism, not to be confused with national socialism"^[1].To that end none of your sources apply here. If you can find a source stating that Svoboda does not adhere to Left-wing Nationalism or that Social Nationalism, their ideology, is not a form of LWN, then you may have something. Outside of that you have not once provided a legitimate source that pertains to this discussion, just out of context quotes that synthetically combine their position, "right wing", and their main platform, "nationalism". Your combination of these two into a single entity is a form of WP:SYN and I kindly ask that you read the source material and understand the topics and material you are arguing before continuing. --Львівське (talk) 19:23, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you're going to quote an academic journal article, you have the burden of at least identifying its title and author, and providing a convenience link if available. (I don't see any such journal on the left-wing nationalism article.) It also should be clear that the claims made theirein need to be relevant here - are we talking about "socialist nationalism" as applied to left-wing Marxist groups, or are we talking about a right-wing social-nationalist party (Svoboda)? We aren't discusssing left-wing nationalism in general; we are discussing the ideology of Svoboda, which is discussed as "right-wing" and "right-wing nationalist", but not "left-wing" and not "left-wing nationalist". Zloyvolsheb (talk) 19:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The link is in the ref tag, and if you bothered to even read the Nationalism article you would see it there too, in the first sentence. The ideology of Svoboda is "Social-Nationalism" and I have provided proof after proof that Social-Nationalism is synonymic to Left-wing nationalism. Your argument, however, is that what their ideology is doesn't matter, because they are generally a right-wing party, and thus you are inferring through some of your own original conclusions that there is a contradiction between them being right-wing and social-nationalist. Your entire argument is based on your own synthesis of separate topics.--Львівське (talk) 20:02, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't any link in the ref tag you posted, because there is no references section to go with that ref. The first ref in the Nationalism article is National Identity, apparently an unrelated book by Anthony D. Smith that you would need to give some page numbers for. The source for "Left-wing nationalism (occasionally known as socialist nationalism, not to be confused with national socialism)" is a 1987 journal article, not available in full, apparently discussing nationalism among supporters of socialism (see the abstract). It does not discuss the Social-Nationalist Party of Ukraine, which formed years after its publication and is described as a rightist group. You are appealing to an unrelated source that employs similar terminology in order to avoid the various aforementioned sources that directly deal with Svoboda's right-wing nationalist politics. In fact, the Stephen Roth link I provided earlier states that Svoboda is a "right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism" - please try to be alert to the unsubtle contradiction. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 22:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't need to discuss Svoboda, it discusses Social-nationalism and says it is synonymic with LWN. End of story. And it's available to me and I can confirm the contents of said article.--Львівське (talk) 22:35, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some background info that might help this discussion: a Ukrainian party containing different political groups with diverging ideological outlooks is quite normal in Ukraine. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are some recent "developments" around and possible involving Svoboda:

• Lviv nationalists clash with police
• Ukrainian nationalist protests anger Moscow (I don't see any Svoboda-flags in this video)
• Regions Party calls Svoboda a 'fascist organization,' demands it be banned

Should these be mentioned in this article, or are the to newsy? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 11:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the "left" because it is clear the original investigation and simply illogical. Let's start from the beginning.

• 1 A party sometime in the authoritative sources dates itself to the left? No
• 2 Authoritative sources attributed the party's left? None.
• 3. The party contacts with the leftist nationalists, such as the Basques or the Irish? No
• 4. The Left Party will hold what we videm in Lviv? None.
• 5. The provisions in the program like a "superpeople" and so it is left edeology ? No
• 6. By the way, most parties of the left nationalism are on the left blocks, and international. Liberty is in them? No

I'm not right and not left, and I do not care about the account policy. But I do not understand why committed without au and any justification we need to keep the article clearly incorrect conclusion? Mistery Spectre (talk) 17:58, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is this edit a joke? Atleast give a source for this info... A communist Ukrainian parliament outlawing a communist party in 1989? Did they even had the autority to do that? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:11, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The use of quotation marks in URL prevents certain websites to reference this article as a source. For example, Facebook replaces this URL with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ukrainian_Union_%22Svoboda%22. It is almost ironic that Chrome resolves the problem by serving http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ukrainian_Union, which is the page of Tymoshenko's party. Is it possible to drop the quotation marks?

I wrote in the lead "The paramilitary organization Ukraine’s Patriot is associated with Svoboda" based on my explanation of a reliable source. Although the source is not very clear on how this Ukraine’s Patriot is connected with Svoboda. Is it so loosely connected with it it should not be mentioned in the lead? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:26, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other wikipeia's claim this organization broke ties with them in 2005 (although no sources used there...); There website holds no reference with Svoboda.... Hence I am removing the sentence from the lead... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:57, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Patriot Ukrainy made a statement staying it was severing absolutely any contact with Svoboda here: http://www.una-unso.info/articlePrint/id-2/subid-9/artid-1051/lang-ukr/index.html. And in spring/summer they attacked Svoboda members giving leaflets in Kharkiv http://www.svoboda.org.ua/diyalnist/novyny/022990/, http://newzz.in.ua/newzz/1148868398-u-xarkovi-pobili-aktivistiv-svobodi.html. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ljudyna (talk • contribs) 22:05, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An editor has complained about the sentence currently in the article "In 2005 the party founded the Internet ‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre’ (the centre was later renamed after Ernst Jünger)." I am thinking it could have been a blog from a member (or something), thus that the Polish historian made a mistake, but a reference is needed to remove or change referenced information. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What reference is needed? Some unknown author can write that Svoboda receives money from aliens from mars, and it's credible enough to enter? Or, at least edit what you originally wrote and say that "it is claimed that the party created...", because, if you've noticed, the author doesn't give any source in his article, either. I'm saying that in English a center implies an orginization and where is any information about it? It was a blog with that name which is very different. Also, here, the member denies having control over that blog: http://ukr.obozrevatel.com/news/nimetskij-rezhiser-hoche-znyati-film-pro-koruptsiyu-na-ukrainsko-polskomu-kordoni.htm. Ljudyna —Preceding undated comment added 22:12, 14 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

After some Googling I found out that the centre seems nothing more then this livejournal account.... That indeed seems not party afiliated, hence I removing this "centre" from the article. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:34, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Figured I'd start up a talk. The line in the lede, "Svoboda is a member of the Alliance of European National Movements (AENM), along with the Italian neo-fascist party Fiamma Tricolore and the prominent French far-right party Front National.[7]" which is taken from Umland's op-ed piece just seems POV'ish and slanted. I think it would be sufficient to say they are a member of the AENM. Why cherry pick what other members are in the group? If there is no connection between them and Svoboda, why is it in the lede? Umland includes these groups because he is trying to make a point in his piece and make connections between Svoboda and other rightist or fascist movements. In the lede, it should just be giving the straight goods, not making WP:SYN observations. Just because Umland makes an observation doesn't mean it would be encyclopedic to do the same. Why not include Jobbik in the lede? The BNP? NF?--Львівське (говорити) 22:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, good point in the recent edit, but what should (if any parties are mentioned) define those parties? Should it not be something related to Svoboda, like nationalism? Why mention fascism or any other ideology? Why not call them eurosceptics? Why the countries, is Ukraine related to France and Italy? I'm just not seeing the connections unless the point is to just name-drop controversial parties and push the reader to draw conclusions.--Львівське (говорити) 23:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Львівське here; besides people can click on Alliance of European National Movements and found out there what kind of "partners" Svoboda has. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:06, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for being objective, Yulia Romero. By the way, maybe it isn't necessary to enter, but if you wanted to see if Svoboda is growing in the east, here is an example of a source http://www.svoboda.org.ua/diyalnist/novyny/020439/. They got almost 10% in Kharkiv and in Donetsk are around 3% now (from 0.19%), which is an increase of almost 16 times. Five years ago in western Ukraine they didn't even have 3%, nevermind 10%.

Ljudyna