Talk:Australian Aboriginal religion and mythology: Difference between revisions

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This page should be moved. Aborigine is a noun: the adjective is Aboriginal. Saying Aborigine mythology in talking about the dreamtime is like saying Rome mythology when talking about Romulus and Remus.

Trouble is, I'm not sure what to change it to!

• Aboriginal mythology is more grammatical
• But perhaps it should be Australian Aboriginal mythology as there are Aboriginies in every continent but the entry is only about the Australian ones.
• Koori mythology In general, the indigenous word "Koori" is prefered to the European term "Aborigine" which is, if not actually offensive, at least veers marginally in that direction. It's a bit like calling an Innuit an "Eskimo".

Koori is a word meaning "people" and comes from one of the many Aboriginal languages. Many of the communities in NSW and Victoria used either that word or else a rather similar one prior to the European arrival, and in recent years (satarting around about 1970) there has been a strong movement amongst the indigenous Australian community to use the term Koori instead of Aborigine. We should respect that.

However, Koori is a word from only some of the 250-odd Aboriginal languages: strictly it applies only to the people of NSW and perhaps Victoria. It has been adopted by other groups in other states, at least to a certain extent, but I'm not sure if it is considered appropriate to use it nationwide. Does anyone have up-to-date information on this? Tannin 08:41 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

As an Australian, I have to say that Koori isn't a word that's mainstream in the Australian vocabulary. Part of the problem with a native word for the Aboriginals becoming mainstream is that there are competing words from different Aboriginal languages. In Queensland they prefer Murri in some places, Bama in others. There are around ten competing terms. Although Aboriginals understandably dislike having to use the English name, it's still more universal, even among Aboriginals themselves. The only real alternative may be "Native Australians", but I haven't heard anyone endorsing that one. Carbon Copy Man 13:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is it just me, or should this just thrown into Dreamtime (mythology). All Aboriginal mythos is Dreaming isn't it.

Comments?--ZZ 07:59, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

the article seems to say that all the tribes have the SAME religion. anyone here know whether or not this is actually true or not? Gringo300 17:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's certainly not. --Ptcamn 16:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

then the next question logically is: does EACH tribe have it's OWN religion? Gringo300 05:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you can objectively draw lines where one religion ends and another begins, in Aboriginal Australia or anywhere. Traditions between tribes will be the same in some respects and different in others: just how different do they have to be before they stop being two sects of one religion and start being two religions? --Ptcamn 09:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Describing Dreamtime spirits and stories as 'mythology' is entirely subjective and POV. Can I suggest this article be renamed to Australian Aboriginal beliefs (or characters)? Sambo 16:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Depends on your definition of "myth". It doesn't have to mean "false". Native American mythology uses the same term in its title. I think it's just the best term for referring to a group of disorganised religious systems. Perhaps this article should model itself after the Native American article? If only I knew where to begin. I know very little about specific Aboriginal cultural groups. Carbon Copy Man 13:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two things:

• I've seen it explicitly said that Australian Aboriginal beliefs do not include gods. Labelling certain personalities "gods" seems like eurocentrism. Perhaps "spirit" would be more appropriate.
• I really don't like the way random personalities from all different cultures are lumped together. It would be much better if they were moved to subpages for each group. --Ptcamn 19:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with better knowledge than I should organize the terms according to group, but they should not be thrown out just because they need better organization. It's better to have some information on the various names in the Aboriginal cultures than none at all. Coyoty 18:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is true - there are no Gods as such in Aboriginal lore - there are Creation beings, Ancestor figures and so on. There is also a pantheon of creatures: Mimi; various types of Hairymen; beings malignant, friendly and indifferent, etc. Again, to say "an Aboriginal" anything is very misleading (see my remark in Koori). I've often seen "the Aboriginal word for..." but there's no such thing. Even to say the "NSW Aboriginal word for.." is wrong. An Aboriginal maybe but not the. It does need reorganising in Wikipedia, true, but it needs to be done by someone with authority - and most with authority or interest are strapped for time. I have a lot of knowledge but no formal qualifications and so no authority.

The following pages should to be moved following this consensus.

• Australian Aboriginal mythology → Indigenous Australian mythology
• Australian Aboriginal languages → Indigenous Australian languages
• Transcription of Australian Aboriginal languages → Transcription of Indigenous Australian languages
• Australian Aboriginal sign languages → Indigenous Australian sign languages
• Australian Aboriginal tribes → Indigenous Australian tribes
• Australian Aboriginal kinship → Indigenous Australian kinship
• Australian Aboriginal enumeration → Indigenous Australian enumeration
• Australian Aboriginal avoidance practices → Indigenous Australian avoidance practices
• List of English words of Australian Aboriginal origin → List of English words of Indigenous Australian origin
• List of Australian place names of Aboriginal origin → List of Australian place names of Indigenous origin

—Mets501 (talk) 01:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

• Zarbat 01:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Aren't decendants of the colonial poulation indigenous as well? Her Majesty Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia uses the term "Australian aborignals" on the website of the Royal Family because it is more appropriate apparently. Premier 07:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I think if you move it all to Indigenous you imply that those practices also apply to Torres Strait Island peoples, who seem to generally get overlooked in the discussion of Indigenous Australians. While Aboriginal culture varies from langauge group to language group, it has some fairly basic consistencies, while Torres Strait Islander culture is substantially different, being a Melanesian culture more closely linked to PNG. 138.25.252.110 02:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Add any additional comments:

These can't be dealt with en bloc. The main page, Indigenous Australians, covers all the indigenous peoples of Australia, including Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders (and thus is properly located at that title). Some of these child articles however are only about Aboriginal Australians; Australian Aboriginal languages for example is distinct from Torres Strait Island languages. --bainer (talk) 01:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm looking at this article, and it looks like it's about all Indigenous Australians, not just the Aborigines. As for the languages, it looks like they can be grouped together under "Australian languages" or "Indigenous Australian languages". But let's see how things work out. I'm open to removing the language move for now if it's going to be problematic. Zarbat 03:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]