Talk:Acts of Union 1800: Difference between revisions

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on January 1, 2005, January 1, 2006, January 1, 2007, January 1, 2008, January 1, 2009, and January 1, 2010.

Why is there a link at the end of the article named "poopy butthole"? That seems to be off-topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.236.12.25 (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An event in this article is a 1 January selected anniversary

I edited the section that was marked with an NPOV. Is it still unsatisfactory? --TD 12:51, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Acts of Parliament are dated according to the date they gained Royal Assent not their affectivve dates (for example, the Government of Ireland Act 1920 did not come into effect until 1921. The article has already renamed to "Act of Union 1800" from alternative versions.--Andrew L 22:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The final passage of the Act in the Irish Parliament was achieved with substantial majorities, and was marked by mass bribery of Irish MPs by the British government"

The above quote from this article seems to me to be somewhat POV. Does anyone have a source for this? JiMternet 16:17, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

 http://www.lawlibrary.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=a&fn=/documents/aboutus/history/act_of_union.htm
 http://www.actofunion.ac.uk/actofunion.htm

In relation to the comment about 'mass bribery of Irish MPs', one source is Robert Kee's The Green Flag Vol. 1. In the 1989 Penguin edition I have to hand there is a quotation on page 158, which reads:

'This trade in inducements to vote was certainly a two-way one, and was conducted by the opposition just as vigorously as by the [Irish] government, though clearly the same resources were not available to them'

Is it not appropriate to mention the location where the Act was signed, namely Derrymore House, Bessbrook, Northern Ireland? And would it not also be appropriate to include a photograph of the building and location in question? I can edit and include these components if deemed necessary. Thanks,c-bro 17:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)c-bro[reply]

Absolutely. Feel free to put in that sort of information. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 17:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone explain what the sentence "The Act was exhaulted by both the British and Irish parliaments" means? --Jfruh (talk) 00:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely the author meant 'exalted', it's a mistake I see all too often. PGingell 14:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have to admit that I don't even know what "exalted" would mean in this context. Is it some kind of technical term for the passage of a law? --Jfruh (talk) 15:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've temporarily removed the following from the text:

The act received the royal assent on 1 August 1800.

Without specifying whether this the date of the British or the Irish Act, it's not really very useful information. Silverhelm 17:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

After much debate, the editors of the United Kingdom article seem to have settled on 1707 as being the foundation of the state (I note with concern though that this date lacks any external referencing, per official Wikipedia policy WP:VERIFY).

But this article - List of countries by formation dates - claims that the UK was actually founded in 1603 (again, completely unreferenced). Both articles cannot be correct, so which is it? Please come to the party armed with some proper external refs, because I am not sure if we can stomach yet another verbally diarrhetic Talk page splurge with largely consists of ad hominem attacks and statements of totally unsourced opinion. --Mais oui! (talk) 23:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain Mooretwin how using the correct name of a country instead of an unofficial one is confusing? As Ireland is correct and official you will have to justify your edit rather than the other way round. Otherwise, all I am thinking of is POV (intentional or not) is the reason behind your edit.Ιρλανδία (talk) 23:01, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. The "correct name" is confusing because it is also:

• the name of the island
• and of the kingdom prior to the Act which is the subject of this article
• and of the jurisdiction following said Act and prior to partition

This article relates to all three of the above, therefore disambiguation is necessary. Mooretwin (talk) 23:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, the others aren't disambiguated and there's no reason why ROI is the magical solution to the problem. Where is written in stone that its used for disambig? Looking at the edit now, both ROI and Ireland are misleading are neither are introduced in the intro. The paragraph needs to be rewritten, something like:

The Union With Ireland Act 1800 (i.e. the UK/British Act) was not finally repealed until the passing of independent Ireland's Statute Law Revision Act 1983.[4] The Act of Union (Ireland) 1800 was repealed in 1962.[5]

That is much clearer.Ιρλανδία (talk) 23:15, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ROI isn't misleading. It clearly refers to the Republic, which is the relevant entity when referring to the repeal in question. Mooretwin (talk) 23:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It misleadingly suggests its a name for the new entity. What is wrong with my new proposed edit? You have ignored it.Ιρλανδία (talk) 23:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Republic of Ireland is a name for the new entity, so there's no misleading involved! Mooretwin (talk) 23:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A. Please show where it says it is a name.

B. Please acknowledge my proposal. You are stonewalling.

Otherwise you're POV pushing.Ιρλανδία (talk) 23:39, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A. Wikipedia acknowledges it as a name - check out Republic of Ireland; as do hundreds of sources (check out Google); as does the ROI state itself - check out the Republic of Ireland Act 1948

B. I acknowledge it, but don't support it on the ground that Republic of Ireland succeeds in removing the ambiguity - "independent Ireland" retains some ambiguity for the uninformed reader.

Please desist from accusations in contravention of WP:AGF. It would be easy for me to level the same accusation against you. Mooretwin (talk) 00:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your A point is completely false. Wikipedia cannot be used as a source, nowhere on google does it say ROI is a name and Republic of Ireland Act 1948 calls it a description, with the Irish government declaring that it not be used as a name. Your POV that ROI is a name has no ground.

It's not completely false. Google throws up loads of references to ROI. And a description is another word for a name.

So? Google, gives loads of references to province of northern ireland? Does that make that a name? description is another word for a name. You need English lessons son. Wayne Rooney does not equal Man United footballer. Very different things.

Well, yes, Northern Ireland is a name. And a name and a description (in the sense provided in the Republic of Ireland Act), far from being "very different", are actually very similar: Republic of Ireland is regularly used as an alternative name: including in this very encyclopaedia! Mooretwin (talk) 08:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How does independent Ireland retain ambiguity while a country under the name of ROI doesn't actually exist? There's an article under that name, it doesn't justify its use however. It is your job to do that and you have failed claiming its a name with absolutely no sources to back it up. Unless you actually properly discuss with facts instead of your "opinions", this discussion will be over very soon and I will input my perfectly good proposed edit as you have given no reason for me not to.Ιρλανδία (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It retains ambiguity because it refers to "Ireland", while the independent state only relates to part of Ireland. Easier just to use the established "ROI". which eliminates any possible confusion. Mooretwin (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is still nonsensical. ROI refers to Ireland too! Independent Ireland the exact same on the basis of your argument.Ιρλανδία (talk) 00:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, it does refer to Ireland, but the term "Republic of Ireland" is established and understood to refer only to part of Ireland, whereas "independent Ireland" is not a widely-used term and more likely to result in confusion. Granted, Southern Ireland would be clearer still, but better to use the established and understood term. What's the problem with it? Mooretwin (talk) 08:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you have issues with the title of the WP article Republic of Ireland, take them to that article. Indeed, take them to the Task Force. Here is not the place for that discussion. Mooretwin (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly there is no need to mention it. In fact you are mentioning everything other than facts to as how why my proposed edit isn't acceptable.Ιρλανδία (talk) 00:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am discussing "facts". Please comply with WP:AGF. Mooretwin (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If they are facts then please provide citation. Otherwise they are made up opinions/pov.Ιρλανδία (talk) 00:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So the elected parliament of the Republic of Ireland didn't pass an act to describe the country as the Republic of Ireland? You're erasing that from history? You're repeatedly contravening WP:AGF Mooretwin (talk) 08:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a clear case of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and clearly, you are going to push ROI no matter how much I justify a compromise edit with facts. I have completely justified this compromise edit and you are refusing to listen. I shall see if another editor comes in, if not I will be bold.Ιρλανδία (talk) 10:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The accusation in respect of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT could equally be made against you. You've failed to put forward an argument against Republic of Ireland (and therefore in favour of changing the text) other than simply stating and restating that "Ireland" is the "official name". The "official name", however, is ambiguous, therefore it is reasonable and appropriate to use the "official description", which is an established alternative name, and one without ambiguity. Mooretwin (talk) 12:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Again, as you didn't hear or pay attention to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAct_of_Union_1800&diff=248301457&oldid=248299634 Ιρλανδία (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are now edit-warring. There was no need to change the existing text and there is no consensus for such change. It is disingenuous to argue that there is "no consensus "to not input the text"". Plus you have inserted one of the most poorly-constructed sentences I have seen on Wikipedia. Please self-revert. Mooretwin (talk) 10:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence is pretty much the exact as the one that was there in the first. If you would like to propose a solution that doesn't use the oncorrect and misleading ROI term then go ahead.Ιρλανδία (talk) 14:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

why is not even in one sentance the rebellion metioned which happened 2 years before the act and is a response of it??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.156.77 (talk) 23:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the sources i the article need a good lookm at.Slatersteven (talk) 13:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what this line means: "When the union was finally passed in 1800, the British drove the process right through the war of 1812." Is it British English, using a term of art Americans aren't familiar with? Considering the Union was created in 1800/1801, the context of this sentence is not apparent. I hope someone with knowledge of the events can clarify this. Jnmwiki (talk) 14:21, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure the 1812 part is vandalism. Per this diff, the previous version was "When the union was finally passed in 1800, the British drove the process." The IP added "right throw the war of 1812", which makes little sense even if one assumes good faith. Trolling through the history can often help clear things up, a little anyway. - BilCat (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I'm new at the "talk" section, although I've been making minor edits for some time. I appreciate the suggestion. Jnmwiki (talk) 05:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This page should be moved to "Acts of Union 1800" as there was more than 1 act and that's what it's called in the first sentence. McLerristarr (talk) 00:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]