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au where Harold is a powerful mage but not free, and him and his holders have like... a detente of sorts. He does certain things they want but not all things, they show certain other people more mercy than they'd otherwise tend to, they don't go around torturing people to get at him, he's generally cooperative
and yeah but then in the au Harold also needs - something more, psychologically. And the CIA wants to have better leverage
so they have him pick someone. To be like. A companion. And if he does fairly minor things they don't like, they're going to hurt *that* person. (So - basically a whipping boy)
it's more convenient than having to go find a someone-around to torture
and so John gets picked for this
(John being himself a mage here also)
ooh
maybe like
john and harold have worked togehter on missions before
and the cia handlers noticed that they ...get along
quite well
john is the only one harold isn't curt and frustrated with
and they're like
'hmm...he'll do"
and they make him basically harold's whipping boy
and of course
john is always like
"if you have a chance to save someone innocent do it, it doesn't matter if i get hurt afterwards"
oh hm! for that how they get together idea!
oh I hadn't even thought of that
bless of course he would
i mean
they're not gonna pick a random mage and hope harold gets attached to him
no
well, in my original thought *Harold* has to pick
and so like. Harold had noticed John, who was having a miserable time where he was, and who has certain psych attributes
because like. At least there's some things Harold can do for him, even if he's getting him tortured on a regular basis. In some ways it might be an improvement. And at least he seems to - deal ok with *being* tortured.
and so of course John gets attached to Harold
(and Harold gets attached to John!)
but Harold has this underlying like. Guilt-type feeling like. He brought John into *this*. Even as like. Well, he doesn't have many choices
maybe
after the torture
harold secretly, like, heals john
or maybe he secretly gives him, ilke, amulets and protective spells he's not supposed to have
and also if harold wasn't getting john tortured somebody else probably would anyway
(John would be all 'no don't give those to me'
'if you break the rules over me it'll only get worse, and they might not only hurt me next time')
oh yeah
not ever thinking about himself
but harold and others
of course
and that of course is why harold find shimself caring about john
because he's so selfless
and like. Harold does what he can. John can have some nice things sometimes when he's *not* being the punishment-by-proxy
Harold can be with him when he's hurt
(the CIA would want that; they'd want Harold to be right there)
they would
harold would do his best to stay impassive
to not show them how much it gets to him
that they're hurting john
but he wouldn't be able to quite do it
that might just get them to hurt John *more*
and they'd probably have, like, some spell in place
like, 'if you come any closer and try to save john it'll trigger this spell and he dies'
and like
John honestly feeling this is the best he's had in his life
omg
it IS the best he's had
because nobody else has ever CARED
or wanted to help him SAVE people
He's helping Harold, who's doing all these things that really matter.
And he's getting hurt, but it means something
And he has Harold
yeah
like. *He* doesn't have the power to challenge the CIA or anything. He never has. But he can be part of Harold's work
and Harold *cares* about him. When he's hurt Harold is there
and if he has to get hurt, well, john knows how to take it
he's used to it
it's nothing new, anyway
but at least now him getting hurt has a purpose
like, he's not being hurt for failing
yeah. It means something
exactly
and that helps him bear it
also Harold being there for him helps
even when it gets really, really bad
(which it does, because the downside of John being good at taking it is that the CIA escalates)
maybe they let harold hold his hand
because harold
with his powers
can maybe feel what john feels
or maybe john can't quite keep it in
and radiates it a little bit
like maybe harold is a bit of an empath
yeah, and they want Harold as close as possible
to really get the impression
as close as possible
but "if you try to free him or save him...."
(oh bless, in the CIA that would be *awful* for him (being an empath))
but still, even being an empath, harold only gets to feel a little bit of what john feels
well, it's more like
i don't think he feels what everyone feels
just if he's very close to someone physically (and emotionally, maybe)
it's not like it's radio waves all over the place
so the fact that he's close to john
is what lets him feel it
ah got it
(imagining if he's a bit more of am empath. And like. Sometimes taking solace in John's emotions. As a rest from like. The CIA in general, feeling them)
that leaves open all sorts of possibilites
like
maybe his empath powers are a bit vulcan-like
where they can communicate in their minds long distance
but only if they're emotionally close
like
vulcans can bond with someone emotionally
and then they can talk telepathically
ooh
maybe Harold originally noticed John through his emotions...
but yeah like
if Harold even confesses his 'guilt' to John
like 'you shouldn't care for me, I got you into this situation'
John will very much be like 'and I'm glad and grateful to be here'
and like 'yes, your reasoning was exactly correct, I'm clearly a good choice for this job'
John thanking Harold
and Harold like 'eep' a bit
(on another side: the CIA knowing they can really, really hurt John. Because even things that John's magic can't handle - Harold's can)
maybe sometimes they want the punishment to linger, so they're like 'you can heal this and this but this other thing we're leaving for a bit'
ooh
yeah
making harold heal john afterwards
but not completely
and just the process of healing him
so that he has to look at and concentrate on every single injury and mark
ooh
oh I hadn't thought of it like that!
yes
so he has to go over them all twice, basically (when they were inflicted and then again)
yes
it can be this absolutely bittersweet scene
where harold is basically providing aftercare
and they let him
they let him be gentle and take care of john
because they know how awful harold feels
and that taking care of john isn't actually going to make him feel *better*
(though it might make john feel better to have harold take care of him, like, harold is helping him do good things and save people AND takes care of him afterwards what more could he ask for)
yeah (oh John)
(he might not... admit it, for a while. But he'd really feel it)
well
if harold's an empath
he'd be able to feel the relief john feels
when harold touches him
though at first he thinks that's just relief at being healed
and only later realizes it's relief that harold is ...there
taking care of him
of course he wouldn't realize it's for him right away...
(also
Some event when they're particularly angry. So they *don't* let Harold provide aftercare. They let him heal John exactly as much as needed for John not to die. And then they make him leave him there)
(and if Harold is an empath he can feel like. John doesn't want to let this hurt. It's the way it is, he knows Harold made the right call, whatever it was. He doesn't want to care about not having this. But - it does. It hurts him)
oh bless
or john and harold on missions together
arguing about the right call
and harold is always so torn
because the right call means punishment for john
he doesn't want to hurt innocents and he doesn't want to hurt john
and so often john is like
"harold, let the innocent go, I know the consequences and they are worth it"
"and the consequences fall on me so it's my choice anyway"
and harold reluctantly agreeing
and just
i'm still not over harold being able to feel some of john's pain
during
but also after
harold feeling the lingering pain
and how much the lack of aftercare hurt
harold feeling how lonely john feels without him, nursing the rest of his wounds and thinking about harold
(maybe eventually they figure out a way to talk telepathically because harold is so powerful)
(And of course this means that John is indeed an *effective* whipping boy for Harold emotionally...)
that image...
"(maybe eventually they figure out a way to talk telepathically because harold is so powerful)" I feel like they'd want to *avoid* that because like. If the CIA ever found out they'd see at conspiring together. And probably kill John.
I have an even better image rn ;)
Of, like, them hurting John all sorts of ways and leaving a whipping for last
And when they cut him down he falls down and doesn't have the strength to stand
And they tell harold
Fix him
And Harold comes over to John and kneels by him
And John looks up at him and says
I'm OK, Harold
Except he can't even get up and he's all bloody and Harold can feel his pain
I had this other thought like
There's one of those 'Harold has to make the call' moments.
and maybe John's just been punished very recently and brutally.
and of course John is still very much 'make the call Harold, I can take it'
and he means it
but Harold can feel like. How it's costing him, the will he's putting into it. How internally, emotionally, he can't stop himself from dreading it, from knowing how horrible what will happen will be.
Even as he never lets that out, is completely determined to endure whatever he has to.
Oh john
What call does Harold end up making?
I need to know
The one he knows he has to. The one John's also telling him to make.
Afterwards, Harold holding John while John can't stop shaking
even after the healing's been done and physically he's fine
and he *wants* to be fine. He doesn't want Harold worrying about him. But sometimes he just - can't
Like
The psychological toll, not just the physical
At least they let Harold hold him, after
yeah
*now imagining Harold like. Actually begging on John's behalf*
Which risks making it worse, probably
Or, you know, this is a great situation for take me instead
like 'you've inflicted your punishment, I understand, please let me help him, he's {well, not only human, but}'
John wouldn't like Harold begging for him
He'd be all 'I'm not worth it, don't spend yourself on me like that'
and Harold just like. Given everything he - he can't take John talking about himself like that, John thinking that of himself.
And just trying to tell John how strong and brave he is, how much Harold is in awe of him, how much it means that John can do what he does...
Yeah, Harold providing praise as aftercare
And maybe..Harold begging by saying, he's not as strong as me, you don't have to punish him so harshly
But John..internalizes that
eep
Also John like '...Harold have they done all this to you before?'
(and it... has irony in it, because like. Half the reason Harold has a whipping boy to begin with, aside from effectiveness, is the CIA has noted that torturing *him* compromises his efficiency)
(because like. The thing is, Harold is *also* very strong willed and determined. And if the CIA is like 'do it how we said or we will break half the bones in your body and set you on fire' - Harold will do what he needs to do. The end. But then if they actually do the thing his psyche - doesn't cope very well, the psych aftereffects are *really bad* and last a while. But then the next time he'll *do it again anyway*.
So. Proxy.)
omg
so, like, harold won't break under torture
but the psychological aftereffects will make him less efficient
and also like
harold seems like the type of person to be bothered more by someone else's suffering than his own
especially if that suffering is his fault
yeah
that's the effectiveness reason
his pain might, well, harm him. But someone else's is what might actually give him pause
and that would also give credence to, like
Harold begging "don't hurt him as badly as you hurt me, he's not as strong as me"
which might be true superficially, harold is a more powerful mage
but when it comes to willpower
i don't think either one of them is 'stronger'
no. Harold is a stronger mage, John is better at coping with torture. But they both just have *really strong willpower*
yeah
man i just have so many thoughts about aftercare, though
because the fact that they let harold heal john afterwards
and be with him
...seems lenient at first
until they realize
it makes harold feel *worse*
to see up close what they did to john
and taking care of john makes him feel a little better but on the whole being with john afterwards, with the aftereffects of the torture
is just crushing for harold
they're also trying to encourage the emotional connection. Because that make it more effective
exactly
(and like, as noted, they are navigating this carefully, they want to control Harold but also keep him effective and cooperative)
like
this only works
if harold gives a damn about john
which makes me think
maybe they tried a different whipping boy before john, so to speak
(dillinger?)
and harold was like
"he's an asshole"
"i don't like people suffering in general but i don't have an emotional connection to this guy"
and then they realize
they need to find a mage that'll click with harold
one that seems to have harold's absurd altruism
and they find john
I was actually thinking the other way
like. I don't think Harold would want well, people in general tortured. Let alone because of him.
But again, they want to calibrate this pretty carefully
"one that seems to have harold's absurd altruism" mm (yeah they... rather match, that way)
and yeah
hurting john would probably make harold more effective on the whole
as a way to protect john
yes
yeah, i think harold would be generally against torture
but he wouldn't go out of his way to be a super effective mage to protect someone like dillinger
or sit with their head in his lap afterwards
ironically harold and john's matching altruism is why neither of them breaks
they torture john plenty in front of harold
and yet neither of them shows any signs of repentance
or changing
yeah
well. harold would try to be compliant when like. It's not an awful choice thing.
because he doesn't want to antagonize them when he doesn't *have* to
and if this method wasn't working at all they'd escalate
but on those important things
yeah
they're not changing
exactly
and yeah like
like I said, my original idea
is that the CIA also recognizes that well. Isolation isn't psych good for people
so they want Harold to have an emotional companion basically
as well as a whipping boy
killing two birds with one stone
and having those be the same person, well. Even better for both sides of it
because Harold bonds with the person through the pain and care
and bonding with the person means their pain hurts him even more
you know
maybe for that reason
john tries to push him away at first
because he knows how the cia works
he knows what they're doing
or maybe
actually
this is probably better
john doubts that he's important enough for harold to care about him
or his pain
he's no one
he's a lowly mage
he's not that important
etc
it takes so long for harold to convince john that he does matter to harold
and when harold does
john is like
"you played right into their hands, harold"
but it's too late by then
mm
like I said, in mine
Harold took this as the best of options available
because when he doesn't have a designated effective whipping boy
the CIA punished him by torturing basically whoever they have on hand
and not all those people can endure torture as well as John
and the other thing is that john is willing to do it
he's not just good at it
he thinks it's worth it
yes
and like. The thing is. When it's someone who like. Who *can't* endure, who begs desperately (begs Harold desperately) to not do this to them
oh that sounds awful
poor..well
poor harold
but also poor person being tortured
like. Harold can force himself through it, tell himself there's more lives on the other end
but it's *horrible* for him, psychologically
like, again, not just suffering but like. Bad afterffects
and that's not good for anyone
yeah
all sorts of trauma aftereffects
like shutting down mentally
and yeah, poor eveyone
though, i dunno, i feel like at a certain point watching john, whom he cares about, be tortured, no matter how good he is at it, would start to have bad psychological aftereffects
I think that's part of why they usually allow him the aftercare
and like. Nice times with John
it's also aftercare for *Harold*
and I mean like. Obviously there's going to be some bad aftereffects - there's not really a way to *try to force people to do stuff through torture* that won't have *any*
but again, the CIA is trying to calibrate
to the best balance they can get between control and effectiveness
i will keep thinking about this
especially the aftercare
and the dynamics of it
because, like
harold will be holding john
a hurt john
and healing him
knowing that he's the reason john got hurt
and feeling guilty
and he would expect anger, someone who got hurt because of harold should be angry at him, but john isn't
john just closes his eyes and lets harold take care of him
and he looks so vulnerable
and so trusting
mm, yeah (maybe tries to reassure Harold even...)
as if harold isn't the reason he got hurt in the first place
and well. To John he *isn't*
the CIA is
Harold is the one who makes it mean something
and that might make harold feel even worse, how much John DOESN'T blame him
and how much he seeks comfort from harold
and yes this is true and john would see it that way and harold would rationally see it that way but irrationally would feel bad
because it's still his choices
that put john here
he's the one who makes the final call
and maybe on some level he feels like 'if I'm so smart and powerful, I should be able to come up with better ways'
yeah
and essentially john ends up being the one to provide harold aftercare by reassuring him that it's okay, it's not his fault, john's okay, it's all fine
(john's probably not okay but...)
well. Mutual aftercare
yeah...
and maybe one day they get into an argument over a number
because harold's like "john you've been punished twice in the past week we can't do this again"
and john being all "but she's innocent"
and harold knowing what the right choice is
but still arguing with john
and then john coming up to him and saying something like
"I can take it, just promise me you'll hold me afterwards"
and bless, that would just make it even worse, those times when Harold *isn't* permitted to hold John
*whispers* secret telepathy
anyway those thoughts
of maybe John, like,
being so willing to take it because he knows he'll get harold holding him afterwards
and that's what helps him get through it
and endure it
also Harold maybe feeling bad for like. John having to bear like. The making of that decision, here. Not only being tortured but being like 'yes, do it' knowing what will happen.
Feeling like this is his, Harold's burden and responsibility to bear.
(which isn't true of course. That's *also* a thing he can need support with. And that's what he and John are both trying to do here - support each other)
yeah, like, having to make that decision can't ever be easy for john
but also
harold would never want to make that decision FOR john
he wouldn't think he had the right
it's john who's going to be suffering
he should get some kind of say in the matter
I think for me it's the difference between like. Harold seeing what John says. And Harold going 'let's not' and thus John needing to be the one to like. *argue for* 'let's yes', across Harold.
also now imagining like
after one of the ones where they're not allowed aftercare. The moment however much time later when the punishment does end and they're allowed contact again.
Harold just wanting to hold John. Because contact but also to know like. Well, he's not *fine* of course but he's. Well.
And John like 'Harold you worry too much I went through this on my own plenty of times before I was here'. But Harold can sense his emotions and how it hurt and how much it is for him too for Harold to be here again. And John wants the touch just as much.
M_E_Lover Thu 27 Oct 2016 11:21PM UTC
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