Wikidata talk:WikiProject Deprecate P642

Old discussions are here.

@SM5POR, Push-f, Lectrician1, BEANS X2, Pallor, Liuxinyu970226: (pinging users who have previously contributed to this effort)

I have developed and begun following a workable process for migration from of (P642) at scale. But with ~700,000 uses of the property, even with the most efficient process, it would take months to years of work for one person to migrate every use. So in the interest of getting it done quicker, I have launched this new WikiProject, where I have reorganized all existing material on this migration effort (formerly under Wikidata:WikiProject Data Quality) with the goal of making it maximally usable to all participants, especially new ones. I would very much welcome your participation, as well as your alerting any other users you know who might be interested in helping out. Thanks!!!

Swpb (talk) 18:19, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's great that you want to make progress on this issue, but I don't see the necessity of creating a new WikiProject rather than using the well documented previous WikiProject. Midleading (talk) 13:19, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was not previously a WikiProject in its own right, but a task under another WikiProject, where it had grown large and complicated enough to warrant a separate project. All the old material, outdated as much of it is, is still here, mostly under "Other possibly helpful info"; I emphasize "possibly" because, while it offers some context, very little of what's there is directly useful to cleaning up P642 uses. The stuff that was directly useful was incorporated into the "Use Cases" and "Tasks" sections and their subpages. Having been the lead (and mostly sole) contributor to this effort for a while, I'm confident I haven't thrown out any babies with the bathwater. Swpb (talk) 14:43, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks, @Swpb, both for the process improvement and the new wikiproject. i added myself to the participant list, though I fear my deteriorating health may prevent my active work on this, i can barely type this comment right now. SM5POR (talk) 10:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very sorry to hear that. Wishing you all the best. Swpb (talk) 11:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SM5POR, Push-f, Lectrician1, BEANS X2, Pallor, Liuxinyu970226:@Retired electrician, Wikipeter-HH, Dexxor, Jean-Frédéric, Arjoopy: Could I list you as participants of this project? Even if you don't plan to do much more with it, you've participated in the past, and maybe having a participants list with more than one name on it will encourage others to join... Thanks! Swpb (talk) 15:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure Lectrician1 (talk) 18:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes... although I still see of as the best possible English-language option. Retired electrician (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me, thanks! And I'd like to contribute when I have a bit more time to spend on Wikidata :) BEANS X2 (talk) 08:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm interested, I'll be watching! Pallor (talk) 08:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ok ..NB: for me, as someone who is not so deep into WD, this topic is an excellent example that the translation of natural language into proper Wikidata items is anything but straightforward. We need an AI at he user interface, which would take a sentence like "John Doe is the mayor of Whoville" and translate that into the correct Wikidata statements. That would make WD usable for people who have not undergone a master study of Wikidata structures. Wikipeter-HH (talk) 09:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

E.g. London (Q84)instance of (P31)largest city (Q51929311)of (P642)United Kingdom (Q145). Any of the following could be valid replacement qualifiers:

• country (P17)
• part of (P361)
• relative to (P2210)
• characteristic of (P13044)

Which is best? Swpb (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Swpb: Move those statements to a new property called "largest city" for use on country items (like capital (P36)). This has the advantage that we can use single-best-value constraint (Q52060874) to ensure that no country has multiple largest cities at the same time. The property "largest city" was rejected in 2013 but it's still better than using instance of (P31)largest city (Q51929311). Dexxor (talk) 11:17, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dexxor: Proposed: Wikidata:Property proposal/most populous settlement. Swpb (talk) 15:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dexxor: FYI, the proposal is in a bit if trouble, if you want to weigh in. Swpb (talk) 00:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Examples:

• colorlessness (Q11567495)subclass of (P279)absence (Q19829125)of (P642)color (Q1075)
• ignorance (Q815577)has cause (P828)absence (Q19829125)of (P642)learning (Q133500)

Possible replacements:

• characteristic of (P13044) (taking "absence" to be a conditional characteristic of the qualifier value)
• relative to (P2210)
• criterion used (P1013)
• something else?

(Many statements with has characteristic (P1552) can be handled more straightforwardly, like this, but that solution doesn't generalize.)

I lean towards characteristic of (P13044), but I recognize the logic is a little strange (i.e. "learning" has the characteristic of "absence" when it comes to causing ignorance) and I wanted to hear other people's thoughts. Swpb (talk) 15:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Wanting to do my bit on the project of my interest, I used this SPARQL − maybe it can be useful to others

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?p ?qval
WITH {
    SELECT ?item WHERE {
       ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q7889.
    }
  } AS %items
WHERE {
  INCLUDE %items.
  ?stmt pq:P642 ?qval.
  ?item ?p ?stmt.
}

Jean-Fred (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting...I see many different use cases there, some of which we have covered and some of which we don't. First off, I see a new use case where statement values are subclasses of derivative work (Q836950), and the appropriate replacement is based on (P144); I've added that to the tables. This seems like a good method for finding unidentified use cases - in fact, I've added a query modeled on this one to the guidance for finding new use cases. Thanks! Swpb (talk) 20:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recently created Grave of Johann Wolfgang Döbereiner (Q130612219) and wondered what the best replacement for the "of" qualifier might be in this case. I am referring to the standard case Main value is a geographic location, qualifier value is a human being, which might look like instance of (P31) grave (Q173387) "of" human (Q5). Kind regards, Arjoopy (talk) 14:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

contains (P4330), as a main property. Swpb (talk) 19:12, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In an item such as James Prescott Joule (Q8962), a common use of this qualifier is position held (P39): president (Q1255921) of (P642) Manchester Literary and Philosophical Society (Q3285345). Is there an appropriate substitute property, or is it more correct to create a "president of Manchester Literary and Philosophical Society" item and use that instead? —Xezbeth (talk) 14:45, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is an ongoing discussion about that here. I'd wait until that discussion is closed before handling these cases. Swpb (talk) 17:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Example statement, query. Any suggestions for replacement handling? I can think of a couple, not sure if I like either:

1. Replace directly with country of citizenship (P27) (not really right, a cemetery itself doesn't have citizenship)
2. Add a new statement, contains (P4330)=dead human (Q18093576), and qualify that with country of citizenship (P27) (accurate but clunky)

Thoughts? Swpb (talk) 17:29, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all, I did some fun querying on how many times P642 is use used as a qualifier on properties where P642 is set as an allowed qualifier in allowed qualifiers constraint (Q21510851) to see whether we can make P642 a non-allowed qualifier on more properties. On 4 properties it is used zero times and in 10 properties it's in single digits. You can find the results here and a query for creating the property list here. Samoasambia ✎ 17:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great stuff, thanks!! Can I add you as a project participant? Swpb (talk) 19:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Swpb: Sure! Here's also a query for counting P642 uses on all properties: [1]. It's in the single digits on over 500 properties. Samoasambia ✎ 19:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, thanks! Swpb (talk) 19:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Example statement, query. I'm thinking maybe one of:

• location (P276)
• via (P2825)
• uses (P2283)

Thoughts on those, or others? Swpb (talk) 20:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]