Japanese Saws vs Western Saws

The difference is more than just pushing or pulling.

It’s been over 20 years since the Western handsaw, a tool that cuts on the push stroke and was the pride of the English-speaking world, was surpassed as the tool most woodworkers reached for when they need a handsaw.

It has been replaced by the Japanese saw, which cuts on the pull stroke and once was mocked by Westerners as “backwards.”

What caused this shift to Japanese saws? While some say it’s because sawing on the pull stroke is superior to sawing on the push stroke, the issue actually is more complex.

And which saw is best? The prevailing wisdom says Japanese saws are superior and easier for beginners to learn. But if you’ve ever worked with a sharp, well-tuned Western saw, you know this can’t be entirely true.

To answer these questions, we decided to scrutinize the two types of saws to learn their true differences, beyond the information in catalogs. Armed with this knowledge, you can choose a saw that’s right for your woodworking and your budget. Our journey begins in ancient Egypt.

Egyptian handsaw

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in the October 2003 issue of Popular Woodworking Magazine, and has been lightly updated by the editorial staff for online publication. Some of the resources mentioned in the article are no longer available or current.

The First Handsaws

Modern woodworkers would almost immediately recognize the first known metal saws, which were excavated in Egypt.

They had a long, knife-like blade, a straight grip and cut on the pull stroke, like a Japanese saw. Why the pull stroke?

Early Egyptian saws were made with a thin sheet of copper (as thin as 0.03″) and had no rigid spine like the modern backsaw.

“(If they had been used) on the push stroke, the saw would have buckled and bent,” according to Geoffrey Killen, author of numerous books and articles on Egyptian woodworking and the head of faculty at the Design and Technology Department of the Stratton Upper School and Community College in England.

What is unusual about these saws is that all the teeth were set (meaning they were bent) to one side of the blade. This makes the saw difficult to steer, and the Egyptians had to come up with ingenious ways of wedging the saw kerf open during each cut, according to Killen.

The advent of bronze tools brought some refinements, as did the iron saws developed by the Romans. But the basic form was still a pull saw with a thin blade.

It was the invention of the frame saw (plus teeth set to both sides of the blade) that allowed these thin metal blades to be used on either the push stroke or the pull stroke – much like a modern coping saw or bowsaw, according to “The History of Woodworking Tools” (G. Bell & Sons) by W.L. Goodman.

The frame saw might not have been invented by the Romans, but they certainly refined it and produced a wide variety of them.

This is an important fork in the road in saw history that affects us to this day. The Japanese developed pull saws like the Egyptians, but they never seem to have developed frame saws, according to several students of Japanese history (though a Chinese frame saw did come into use in 15th century Japan).

So the Japanese, with their scarce metal resources and their traditions of working low to the ground, stuck with the pull saw and refined it to a high art.

In the West, most of the European continent stuck with the bowsaw. But the Dutch and English took a different path. In the mid-17th century, wider steel blades became possible thanks to water-driven mills, and the modern handsaw that cuts on the push stroke was born.

The Western handsaw, shown here being used by Don McConnell with an overhand rip grip, cuts on the push stroke.

The West Stumbles

The 19th and early 20th centuries were the golden age of Western handsaws. There were hundreds of saw manufacturers, fierce competition, high-quality tools and a very hungry market.

But as the demand for quality hand tools declined, so did the number of manufacturers. And quality slipped dramatically.

“Western manufacturers thought it was OK to ship a saw that was poorly set, dull and had a handle that looked like it was made by a third-grade art student,” says Thomas Lie-Nielsen, owner of Lie-Nielsen Toolworks. “You couldn’t use the saws right out of the box. It’s no wonder the Japanese ate their lunch.”

When Western saws suitable for cabinetmaking disappeared off the shelves, the Japanese saws picked up the slack.

“In Japan, the product lines have not been cheapened,” says Rob Lee of Lee Valley Tools. “Even products that have been mass produced have not been cheapened.”

So while it was tough to find a decent new Western saw at almost any price, the Japanese exported saws to the West that were sharp, straight, perfectly set and inexpensive. A good Japanese backsaw still costs only about $40. So it’s little wonder that the Japanese saw now is in many North American workshops. It was, in many ways, a simple matter of economics.

Instead of benches, Japanese craftsmen often use low trestles. Sawing a tenon with a Japanese saw this way is efficient and requires sawing at a less awkward angle than at a high Western bench. However, you need to be in good shape to work this way.

Facts About Japanese Saws

Japanese craftsmen would be quite curious about the way Westerners use their saws. For one, we work on a high bench and clamp our work when sawing. The Japanese furniture maker works on a low sawhorse (6″ high or so) and does not generally have a vise.

“(Westerners) tend to clamp everything,” says Harrelson Stanley of JapaneseTools.com. “The Japanese don’t clamp unless they have to. They do some wedging. Mostly they saw in toward a solid object,” such as the work, which is secured by their foot, he says.

A second difference is that many Westerners use the crosscut dozuki saw (a saw with a rigid spine) for cutting dovetails, which is primarily a ripping operation.

For crosscutting in joinery,the Japanese will use a dozuki (which means “shoulder of a tenon”).There are various ways to grip the saw.

The Japanese woodworker instead uses a rip-tooth dozuki (which is uncommon in the West) or a rip saw without a back, says Damsen of Japan Woodworker. That’s because the Japanese philosophy on dovetails and tenons is, at times, different than the Western approach.

“When they cut dovetails they don’t want the cut too smooth,” he says. “They compress the joint before assembly and let it expand and lock the joint.”

Westerners want a smoother cut and are willing to sacrifice the speed of a rip tooth. Many Japanese dovetail saws for the Western market have some sort of combination tooth, in some cases a tooth that was designed to cut plywood that also works quite well for dovetails, Damsen says.

Types of Japanese Saws

But one thing Japanese and Western craftsmen share is having to choose what type of Japanese saw to buy: a machine-made saw or a craftsman-made saw. There are important differences:

• A good-quality machinemade saw costs about $20-$50. The price of a craftsman-made saw averages $150, and the premium tools are about $250.
• Generally, craftsman-made saws have softer teeth than the machine-made saws, which are typically impulse-hardened. Impulse hardening is a fast, highvoltage process that hardens only the teeth. While the machinemade saws stay sharp longer, they cannot be resharpened.

Craftsman-made saws can be resharpened and even customized to the way you work. But this is meaningless to Western woodworkers, says Frank Tashiro, owner of Tashiro Hardware, which sells the line of ZETA Saws.

“(The sharpener) doesn’t know your work so he does the best he can, so it doesn’t work out,” says Tashiro, who adds that the best value and performance come from a Japanese saw with replaceable impulse-hardened blades.

But replaceable blades rankle woodworkers who don’t believe in disposable tools.

To counter that, Japanese saw manufacturers say that once your impulse-hardened saw becomes too dull for woodworking, it is still plenty sharp for work in the garden as a pruning saw.

“You can make a nice scraper out of the blade, too,” Damsen says of the saws.

• Another difference is that many craftsman-made saws are more delicate because of their thinner blades. Even the most robust craftsman-made saw should not fall into the hands of a beginning woodworker.

“Just because you have a $200 saw doesn’t mean you will saw better,” says Stanley. “It’s important to practice the technique. Start with impulse-hardened saws. Don’t get a $250 saw and break it. As your skills improve you can use thinner saws.”

When using Japanese joinery saws, most everyone agrees that you shouldn’t be aggressive or saw at a radical angle. Just a bit of downward pressure on the pull stroke is all it takes, and you shouldn’t apply any downward pressure on the return push.

Japanese Rip Teeth • The length of the rip teeth are graduated on Japanese saws.They start small near the handle and get larger.

Western Rip Teeth • Rip teeth work like chisels, levering out the grain. Crosscut teeth work like knives, severing the fibers on either side.

Advantages of Japanese Saws:

• Thinner kerf removes less wood, which means less effort.
• The inexpensive saws are of high quality and work very well right out of the box.
• The teeth are generally harder and can go longer between sharpenings.The best Western saws are 52-54 on the Rockwell “C” scale. Japanese saws are 51-58 for the handmade saws, and 61 and higher for the machine-made impulse-hardened saws. While the harder teeth stay sharp longer, they also are more brittle and prone to break.
• There are many manufacturers who sell a wide variety of saws with different teeth configurations (more than 100 kinds, by Harrelson Stanley’s count) for every woodworking task and every type of wood.

Disadvantages of Japanese Saws:

• It’s almost impossible for a woodworker to sharpen a Japanese saw. The teeth are too complex on handmade saws and too hard on the impulse-hardened ones. Handmade saws usually go to Japan for sharpening. Impulse-hardened saws become scrapers or go in the garbage.
• The crosscut teeth are more delicate. If you hit a knot or cut quickly into particularly tough wood, you could lose a tooth or two.
• The saws are easier to ruin. Because the blade is thin, you can bend it on the return stroke if you push too hard and the saw isn’t aligned properly in the kerf.
• Japanese saws pull sawdust toward you, obscuring your line.
• Japanese saws made for dimensioning lumber (not joinery) have shorter blades than full-size Western handsaws. Depending on the saw, the pull saw might require more strokes to do the same work.
• Japanese saws are designed to be used in traditional Japanese fashion on low benches. When used in Western fashion, some Japanese saws are not always as effective as they should be.

Some students of woodworking history think the push stroke was developed in the West because we work on high benches, unlike Japanese craftsmen who work near the floor on low trestles or beams.

Facts About Western Saws

No one can deny that Japanese saws cut very well, but so do Western saws that are sharp and properly set. The problem is finding Western saws suitable for woodworking. There are increasing number of manufacturers of full-size Western saws that do a decent job for woodworking. Some of them also make joinery saws backsaws with a rigid spine on the blade. And companies such as Lie-Nielsen and Vertitas now make premium joinery saws that are the equal of the outstanding saws of the 19th century.

But by far, the biggest sources of quality Western saws are flea markets and auctions. Top-of-the-line Disston, Simonds and E.C. Atkins saws can be purchased for $5-$25. These, however, can be rusty, dull and bent. You’ll either have to learn to repair them or find someone who knows how.

Sharpening a Western saw is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks for woodworkers.

“No one knows how to sharpen Western saws,” says Graham Blackburn, author of “Traditional Woodworking Handtools” (available at blackburnbooks.com) and an instructor at Marc Adams Woodworking School. “I ask the students to bring in their worst plane and their worst saw. Once they sharpen their saws they never go back to Japanese saws.”

But if you don’t want to learn to sharpen, you still can get a fleamarket saw professionally tuned. Check with your local woodworkers guild for recommendations, and don’t be afraid to ship your saw out of state for a quality job.

This inexpensive Disston #4 backsaw cuts incredibly well now that it has been properly sharpened. The handle on vintage Western saws will fit your hand like a glove. Later handles are uncomfortable to use and look crude by comparison.

Western Saw Tips

Once sharpened, a Western saw is easier to use than you might think. Here are a few tips:

• Though it sounds obvious, use a rip saw for rip cuts, such as dovetailing. Some dovetail saws are filed for crosscut. They work OK, but not as well as a rip saw.
• Let the saw do the work. Don’t use a lot of downward pressure on the kerf – this is surely the No. 1 problem faced by beginners. The saw will wander and you’ll never cut straight.
• Don’t clench the handle tightly. Hold the saw with just enough pressure to keep it under control. And use only three fingers – your index finger should point down the blade.

Japanese Crosscut Teeth • Note the long slender teeth and three bevels filed on each tooth. The tips are discolored from impulse-hardening.

Western Crosscut Teeth • You can see the simpler secondary bevels (called the “fleam”) filed on every other tooth.

Advantages of Western Saws:

• The teeth are more durable than those on Japanese saws and are highly unlikely to break, even under the worst conditions. The blades themselves are thicker and less likely to buckle in use.
• They will last you a lifetime. The teeth can be resharpened many times. Saws can even be refiled by the user to a different tooth configuration if their needs change. • With a little practice, you can sharpen a Western saw with inexpensive and easy-to-obtain tools.
• Western dovetail saws that are properly filed for a rip cut will cut more aggressively than the crosscut-filed dozuki that’s commonly used for dovetails in the United States.
• They push the sawdust away from your cut line.
• High-quality secondhand Western saws are both plentiful and inexpensive in most parts.

Disadvantages of Western Saws:

• High-quality new or restored Western saws are more expensive than their Japanese counterparts. Japanese joinery saws average about $45; the equivalent quality Western saw costs at least $125.
• Inexpensive new Western saws are – in general – dull and poorly set compared to similarly priced Japanese saws. Learning to saw with these less-expensive tools frustrates many beginners, swearing them off Western saws.
• While vintage Western saws are plentiful in most parts of the United States, you must first learn to restore them before putting them to work: straightening the blades, fixing the teeth, and sharpening.
• The teeth are softer and require more frequent sharpening, though it is a task you can do yourself after a little education and practice.
• In general, the saws are heavier and have a thicker kerf, so they require more effort to use.

Worst of Both Worlds?

All this has to make you wonder why someone hasn’t built a saw that merges the best qualities of both traditions. Well, a few companies have tried, though nothing has been able to challenge the dominance of the pure Japanese-style saw.

And the reason might be illustrated by the experience of one veteran woodworker.

A few years ago, Blackburn was poking around a flea market and discovered a beautiful old Spear & Jackson backsaw.

The saw had a perfectly shaped handle, much like the one on the outstanding Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw. But the blade of this Spear & Jackson was horribly bent. So Blackburn hung it on his wall.

One day a friend noticed the saw and offered to send it to Japan to see if they could straighten it out. Blackburn agreed. The saw came back a few months later straight as an arrow but with one major and shocking change.

They had filed Japanese-style teeth on the blade. Trying to keep an open mind, Blackburn gave it a try. “It cuts well,” he says, “but it feels wrong to me. So it still hangs on the wall.”

Chalk it up to this: When it comes to traditional hand-tool skills, it’s hard to defy tradition. Now you just have to decide which tradition is best for you.