Director Sean Baker Explains How Anora Is Linked To A Lesbian Vampire Film [Exclusive Interview]

Filmmaker Sean Baker is one of a handful of directors working in American cinema today who seems to have his eye on the future just as much as he does on the past. In other words, he's not a James Cameron, always looking for the Next Big Thing, nor is he a Quentin Tarantino, who is endlessly in love with the cinema of yesteryear. Instead, Baker is simultaneously reverent of the history of American film while seeking to make his work as relevant to the present day as possible. There's a reason why his films resonate so deeply with a young, hip audience, because his interest in giving marginalized groups representation while creating vibrant, compelling, nuanced, and flawed characters feels so genuine that just about anyone from any background can find a way to relate to his work. His films manage to flit between tones with ease; they're madcap hilarious one moment, achingly heartfelt and tragic the next.

That certainly describes his latest movie, "Anora," which stars Mikey Madison as the title character, Ani, a stripper in a NYC club who has a chance meeting with a young, wealthy Russian boy, Vanya (Mark Eydelshteyn). After a brief period where Vanya hires Ani for a girlfriend experience, the two have a whirlwind romance, get hitched during a trip to Las Vegas, and return to NYC only to discover that Vanya's oligarch parents refuse to allow the marriage to continue. What follows is an ensemble farce blended with a tender character study, making "Anora" Baker's most delightful and thoughtful movie to date.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Baker on the eve of the film's release, and the chill, gregarious filmmaker offered up a wealth of thoughts on "Anora" and his filmography in general. From detailing the importance of rehearsing with actors and utilizing location scouts to learning new things about the world of sex workers, trying to approach representation respectfully, and throwing in a sly homage to the films of Jess Franco and Soledad Miranda, Baker proved once again how enriched and enriching his work is.

Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

Congratulations on the film and the big Beyond Fest premiere last night. Did you get your Beyond Fest director's trading card?

I did, I did! Yeah, glad they used a 10-year-old photo. I look better. [laughs]

So, this is a frequently hilarious movie. It's so fun and so funny at times, and your ensemble of actors keep things at such a high farcical pitch. Did you get any rehearsal time with any of them? And with regards to the fight/struggle scene that's in the middle of the film, how did that come about? Was it created more on the fly, or was it really prepared and rehearsed?

We had more time to rehearse on this film than I've had with any of my previous films, and I really started to appreciate it early on in the process. So we kept it going and we made sure — there were many reasons [to keep rehearsing]. There had to be a flow to every scene, so we had to make sure we nailed it before starting to roll the camera because we're shooting film. So, the rehearsals were very important and also just very informative. I was working with my entire main cast, and most of my supporting cast, were seasoned trained professionals, which is very kind of different from my previous films where I like to mix it up.

In this case, everybody came from years of experience, and so they were really wonderful at giving me alternative takes, something different with every take. I was just amassing gold every day from these amazing actors. So to answer your question, yes, a lot of rehearsal, which also allowed us to do little rewrites on set and massage areas to make them work better. 

And then also, yeah, the set pieces that required stunts or action, they were calculated. They were very choreographed for many reasons. For example, the home invasion scene, I needed it to take place in real time. So I had to be covered so that there won't be any continuity errors. And then on top of that, there was stunt work and it could be dangerous, especially when my lead actors Mikey and Yura [Borisov] say, "We want to do our own stunts," so I, as a director, [think] that's wonderful. I mean, I'm seeing their faces that are performing these very scary stunts. But we had a stunt coordinator there obviously and a double ready to jump in, in case they couldn't do it. But my God, watching that for the first time was shocking because — I'm talking about especially that one wide shot where they come around the couch and Yura grabs Mikey and they fall back and the lamp goes and then she kicks the vase. There's just so much chaos in that one moment that I didn't fully realize until we're rolling the camera because we had to — the way we rehearsed it was in quarter speed. Quarter speed. You're going in slow motion just to show the path and what's going to happen, but then you're rolling and it's happening and I was just incredibly impressed.

So many of your films involve characters who are either sex workers themselves or thinking of becoming one. You yourself have publicly advocated for the de-stigmatization and decriminalization of sex work. While making "Anora," was there anything new that you discovered about sex workers and their world? Do you think things have improved or gotten worse there, or stayed the same? Where do you think that is in terms of our society right now?

There've been slight improvements. I mean, the very fact that now we're using a new term. "Sex work" is basically something that's come about in the last few years. I mean, before that, we would use terms like "prostitution" and others, but this blanket umbrella term I think really helps in many ways. 

And then also, to answer your question about what I've learned, every film that I've covered on sex work is like a different aspect of sex work. So in this case, this lap dance club, was very foreign to me and I had to learn the mechanics of that world. That particular club allowed us to spend time there. We would spend time there with Mikey many a night just observing, watching, and then she was actually shadowing some of the dancers to really understand the interactions with clients and how everyone is different. Each one is different.

These young women in that situation, in that world, it's hard work. It's really hard work. They have to approach one of the men at the club or have the men approach them and within seconds, read that person and figure out what they have to do almost on a psychological level to put that person at ease and then try to make some money from that person. It all has to happen in seconds.

So in many ways, I think a lot of these young dancers working in an environment like that are psychiatrists, psychologists, to a certain degree.

In that same vein, what in your view do you think would help Hollywood stop being unfortunately so bad at tackling stories from stigmatized groups like sex workers, but also trans folks, those in poverty, disabled, etc.?

I think it's really just about approaching the representation in a more respectful way. And what I mean by that is, let's stop with the caricatures, number one. Let's use, meaning employ, sex workers as consultants. It's their stories, it's their voice. You need to have them involved when you're doing this sort of thing. And then lastly, these characters should be human. They should be three-dimensional, fully fleshed out, so that the audience can connect and identify and root for [them]. What that means is a fully fleshed out human that isn't sanctified, isn't put on a pedestal. They have flaws. They make mistakes like all of us. And when we see that, when people outside that world see that, they really see themselves. So I think that's the way to go about doing it.

One of the things in "Anora" that delighted me personally as a film nerd is seeing in the credits a special thanks to Jess Franco and Soledad Miranda.

Yeah, thank you. I love that. I love that.

What sparked that? I mean, was it just the vibe of their films together that inspired you while making this? Or was it something more specific?

Yes. And well, specifically, there is that red scarf that comes from "Vampyros Lesbos" in which Soledad Miranda wears it, and that prop becomes part of her character. Well, that's what we were doing with Ani. We were making that red scarf a very important prop — more than just a prop. It signifies, in many ways, her suppression, in a way. I mean, this thing is being used to silence her, and yet then she has to use it for her own comfort and warmth. So we're playing with that. 

I could have thanked a million filmmakers. I mean, you probably see my influences. I'm wearing them on my sleeve in this film. But I think it was also probably that relationship, how he shot Soledad Miranda in those couple of films that he made with her. I started to recognize that's how I was shooting Mikey on the set. She was literally in every shot of the entire film, just about, and so was Soledad in those movies. So I felt it was appropriate. And I also wanted to kind of call attention to those movies to general audiences who may never have heard of Jess Franco.

Absolutely. And I mean, you have had a direct impact on my cinematic life thanks to your Letterboxd account. I sought out Fernando Di Leo's "To Be Twenty" because of your review of it. And I was wondering in the way that you approach your films like "Anora," the fact that they are unflinching character studies, and they aren't afraid of taboo material, are you trying to put a little bit of the brazenness of European cinema and exploitation films of the '70s back into the American mainstream? Is that something that's a goal of yours, or is it just something you're interested in?

You know what? I think so. I think it is actually a goal, meaning that I'm missing that stuff. I'm missing that audacious approach to storytelling, almost unapologetic, not in any way mean-spirited. I don't think mean-spirited. I think it's just we've lost the capability of laughing at ourselves, and laughing at perhaps dark humor or off-color humor. I would love to see us get back there. So yes, this time around, I think there was a more of a conscious "this is what I'm doing here." And if it excites people again, if it reminds them of the way it used to be, that's what I'd love to see.

Your films have such a specificity of place. I mean, you named one after Florida, for goodness sake. And this one, I lived in New York City for 15 years, and I absolutely felt the vibe of the boroughs, the whole going to Coney Island at two in the morning sort of thing when it's freezing on the beach. How do you approach location work in your movies? Is it all scouting? Do you guys have a really good scout who comes back to you with these ideas for locations? Is it from a script level? What's going on in that process?

It starts with the script. And obviously I have to be familiar with the area, start to get familiar with the area, whether that's before or during pre-production — us living in the Brightwater Towers where Igor lives in the film — and really soaking in the environment, spending time in the environment, getting to know locals. And then of course when we're actually in production, shooting on location, trying my best, taking a cue from Scorsese and "Taxi Driver," not to geographically cheat. With cinema you sometimes have to, of course, but try not to. 

[And] my location scout, he's amazing. Location manager, Ross Brodar, he got me every location I wanted. And it was collaborative. For example, with the mansion, I just Googled "biggest and best mansion in Brighton Beach," and this thing came up and I said, "Ross, I need this one, I need it." And he got it for me. And we got the famous Tatiana's, and we were able to shoot outside next to the Cyclone, just really celebrating, I think, this really picturesque environment of Brighton Beach and Coney Island. So yeah, it's through the script stage, it's through working with my wonderful location manager. And then also, it's while we're in production, really throwing our actors into real establishments, real restaurants, having them interact with real people on the street. I think that's what really brings it all together.

I know you are not, or you don't seem like, a franchise filmmaker, but I know that people like François Truffaut did the Antoine Doinel films. Are there any characters of your films that you've ever felt like revisiting? Would Anora be one?

Oh, that's interesting. I do have Easter eggs throughout all my movies that kind of pull them together. There's actually a "Red Rocket" Easter egg in "Anora." I won't tell you what it is, but it's there. But that's interesting. In many ways, you could say the Mikey character of "Starlet" is the Mikey character of "Red Rocket," just played by two different actors. You could say that.

But we'll see. We'll see. Listen, I love all of my characters and it's mostly because of the way that my wonderful actors have fleshed them out. So I would love to see any of them return.

"Anora" is now playing in theaters everywhere.