hopefulLandlord:


could it be that she woke up during surgery? it happens a lot bro

woke up? unless you mean spiritual wake up.

She was total "unconscious" throughout the surgery. I can't even narrate with is going on in my environment when I am asleep much more when someone is in deep coma

spacetacular:


Pls are pictures capable of being posted here? How do I do that pls?

Just save the picture
When typing comments

Below the typing box click one of the "choose file" buttons and attach the file from the location it is saved on your phone.

hopefulLandlord:


could it be that she woke up during surgery? it happens a lot bro

He said the lady observed the surgery as if looking at it with a birds eye view and not from the operating table. Birds eye view affords detail.

spacetacular:


I have my own personal day to day on the field experiences and would trust that better than anyone's imaginative musings. I have enough medical journals I have read and what you posted falls into the category of medical imagination . You see sir the body and every little part of it has been set to function in a specific way and when something breaks the norm which isn't medically possible nor medically understandable it falls into medical mystery and ones imaginative writing or assumptions cannot be taken as an authority and neither can it be applied on the field as a medical procedure.

So, 40 separate cases published in reputable journals are now imaginative musings, medical imaginations? Na wa oooo.
So your own personal experience now beats research work and articles because you're an authority, abi?
No one is holding you back from writing your own articles and publishing the on PubMed, the lancet, new england Journal of Medicine and the likes.
Did anything the doctors attempt in those cases run foul of treatment guidelines within the confines of evidence based medicine? The article is just to show that it is possible to regain spontaneous return of circulation after clinical death provided that resuscitation was extensively attempted.

spacetacular:


Pls are pictures capable of being posted here? How do I do that pls?

Before you type in the message box to post, look below and see "Attachments" and browse the pix you wonna add

spacetacular:


I am a sister sir o

LOL
Sorry Sister

felixomor:

Yes of course like in any teaching hospital



A trained registrar of course
Whats your point?


Yes i think so.

Lets assume all the questions u asked are points worthy?
Do you know the number of hours it takes for brain cells to start dying without oxygen?

If your friend died for 12 hours without oxygen supply. I highly doubt of he would walk out of the morgue with his 2 legs, do you know the amount of brain damage associated with 12 hours of anoxia?

onyenze123:


woke up? unless you mean spiritual wake up.

She was total "unconscious" throughout the surgery. I can't even narrate with is going on in my environment when I am asleep much more when someone is in deep coma

I simply asked cuz it happens too that a patient wakes up during surgery but can only move his/her eyes due to inadequate anesthesia or its wearing off faster than anticipated

anyways there are several such happenings, several lawsuits brought about by such and a simple Google search should shed more light on that

mind you, I'm not ruling out your explanation either

CatfishBilly:

If your friend died for 12 hours without oxygen supply. I highly doubt of he would walk out of the morgue with his 2 legs, do you know the amount of brain damage associated with 12 hours of hypoxia?

Exactly mr man
Thats why this issue is a mystery

If we claim we can explain it,
Then it becomes a lie

spacetacular:


He said the lady observed the surgery as if looking at it with a birds eye view and not from the operating table. Birds eye view affords detail.

okay fair enough

CatfishBilly:

If your friend died for 12 hours without oxygen supply. I highly doubt of he would walk out of the morgue with his 2 legs, do you know the amount of brain damage associated with 12 hours of hypoxia?

It's anoxia sir and not hypoxia. Total lack of oxygen supply is anoxia while extremely low supply of oxygen is hypoxia

felixomor:


Exactly mr man
Thats why this issue is a mystery

That is why I'm of the opinion that your friend didn't die.
It is science. A brain can't handle 12 hours of no oxygen without a scar. There must be paralysis or intractable seizures. I'm not even talking about out right death now.

spacetacular:


It's anoxia sir and not hypoxia. Total lack of oxygen supply is anoxia while extremely low supply of oxygen is hypoxia

Yeah, my bad. I mixed it up.

CatfishBilly:

That is why I'm of the opinion that your friend didn't die.
It is science. A brain can't handle 12 hours of no oxygen without a scar. There must be paralysis or intractable seizures. I'm not even talking about out right death now.

Mscheww
You are not serious.
Why do u think the mechanism of this topic is "poorly understood"?

felixomor:


Mscheww
You are not serious.
Why do u think the mechanism of this topic is "poorly understood"?

We are talking about the person coming back to life (i.e. heart restarting) we are not talking about the neurologic sequelae. A lot of the patients in the research died within 2 weeks of the primary event. Neurologic sequelae too was reported.
That they can't come up with a unified explanation of how it happened doesn't mean that they didn't have sequelae.

hopefulLandlord:


I simply asked cuz it happens too that a patient wakes up during surgery but can only move his/her eyes due to inadequate anesthesia or its wearing off faster than anticipated

anyways there are several such happenings, several lawsuits brought about by such and a simple Google search should shed more light on that

mind you, I'm not ruling out your explanation either

I understand. I am an open-minded person. All I am saying is let's not rule it out completely; let's ask questions and investigate in order to understand the world we live in

CatfishBilly:

We are talking about the person coming back to life (i.e. heart restarting) we are not talking about the neurologic sequelae. A lot of the patients in the research died within 2 weeks of the primary event. Neurologic sequelae too was reported.
That they can't come up with a unified explanation of how it happened doesn't mean that they didn't have sequelae.

Neurologic sequelae was reported in 100 percent?

Stop being dishonest with yourself
Haba.
I even have youtube links of people who came back from the dead.
Wetin

CatfishBilly:

That is why I'm of the opinion that your friend didn't die.
It is science. A brain can't handle 12 hours of no oxygen without a scar. There must be paralysis or intractable seizures. I'm not even talking about out right death now.

So apnea at death which deprives the brain of oxygen under anoxia and no cardiovascular activity isn't death?

Your brain is actually being kept alive by your lungs sir. You breathe in oxygen and your blood gets oxygenated and this is pumped by your heart to all parts of your body including your brain. Your brain cells are alive because of oxygenated blood it is being fed with. Take away the oxygen and your brain dies.

Can you explain what death truly is to me sir?

onyenze123:


Out of Body? What is moving out of human body? Soul?

I have watched a documentary about a lady hit by a racing car in German. The lead doctor that handled her case is a staunch atheist. He was really shocked after the lady narrated how the operation procedure was carried out ( as if she looked directly from the roof top). Science will try it best to explain some things but let's not rule out the spiritual perspective

I have told you that out of body experience as per neuroscientists are basically delirium and hallucinations to put it simply. No soul or spirit left anywhere.
As per her feeling the operation and narrating it, it is most likely suboptimal dose of the anaesthesia used.
Medical literature is littered with numerous cases like that.

felixomor:


Neurologic sequelae was reported in 100 percent?

Stop being dishonest with yourself
Haba.
I even have youtube links of people who came back from the dead.
Wetin

Did I say 100%? Please show me where in the post you quoted where I said 100%?
Anybody can come out and claim anything on YouTube.
I'm talking about medical journals you're talking YouTube.

CatfishBilly:

Did I say 100%? Please show me where in the post you quoted where I said 100%?
Anybody can come out and claim anything on YouTube.
I'm talking about medical journals you're talking YouTube.

Are medical journals, medical observations, medical research or same writers of those journals not featured or mentioned on YouTube? YouTube is just for information spread through video and honestly speaking videos hardly lie unlike what is written in black and white by whoever at wherever. Videos offer you a practical visual aid and evidence while literature is purely fiction until proven.

spacetacular:


So apnea at death which deprives the brain of oxygen under anoxia and no cardiovascular activity isn't death?

Now, where did I say that? Don't misquote me, I beg you. If you don't understand what I wrote, ask for clarifications.

Your brain is actually being kept alive by your lungs sir. You breathe in oxygen and your blood gets oxygenated and this is pumped by your heart to all parts of your body including your brain. Your brain cells are alive because of oxygenated blood it is being fed with. Take away the oxygen and your brain dies.

Did I ever say anything contrary to what you wrote up there?
Sustained apnea can cause death of neurons starting from the 5 minute mark.

Can you explain what death truly is to me sir?

Clinical or brain death?

CatfishBilly:

Now, where did I say that? Don't misquote me, I beg you. If you don't understand what I wrote, ask for clarifications.


Did I ever say anything contrary to what you wrote up there?
Sustained apnea can cause death of neurons starting from the 5 minute mark.

Clinical or brain death?

Actually sustained apnea can cause neurological death from the 1 minute mark and not 5minutes.

Explain both clinical and brain death pls. I require both

CatfishBilly:

Did I say 100%? Please show me where in the post you quoted where I said 100%?
Anybody can come out and claim anything on YouTube.
I'm talking about medical journals you're talking YouTube.

You didnt say it
But you implied it
By trying to say the Classmate i was talking about didnt really die.
I have worked in a teaching hospital before,
We dont send breathing patients to mortuary
At least we have protocols that prevents that.

You have this dishonest attitude of calling fake, anything that goes against your assumption.
The other day I showed u a scientist, then u call him a fake scientist.
Even not too long, u were almost trying to insinuate that he was not certified dead, by asking who certified him dead.

There are atheists who have observed this phenomenon and are sincere enough to admit the mystery.
Not this dishonesty u are exhibiting.

spacetacular:


Are medical journals, medical observations, medical research or same writers of those journals not featured or mentioned on YouTube? YouTube is just for information spread through video and honestly speaking videos hardly lie unlike what is written in black and white by whoever at wherever. Videos offer you a practical visual aid and evidence while literature is purely fiction until proven.

Well, in medical research, patients are not identified, confidentiality clause, unless express permission is granted. And videos including YouTube defeats that purpose.
It is amazing that medical personnel tend to rubbish medical journals when it doesn't fit their rhetoric. But the hypocrisy now is that the same medical journals that you rubbish gave you the treatment guidelines you use to manage patients all in the name of evidence based medicine.
But the good news is that your opinion is irrelevant, it has been published in reputable journals and people that matter have accepted after it going through peer review of course.

CatfishBilly:

Well, in medical research, patients are not identified, confidentiality clause, unless express permission is granted. And videos including YouTube defeats that purpose.
It is amazing that medical personnel tend to rubbish medical journals when it doesn't fit their rhetoric. But the hypocrisy now is that the same medical journals that you rubbish gave you the treatment guidelines you use to manage patients all in the name of evidence based medicine.
But the good news is that your opinion is irrelevant, it has been published in reputable journals and people that matter have accepted after it going through peer review of course.

Please who accepted ?

CatfishBilly:

I have told you that out of body experience as per neuroscientists are basically delirium and hallucinations to put it simply. No soul or spirit left anywhere.
As per her feeling the operation and narrating it, it is most likely suboptimal dose of the anaesthesia used.
Medical literature is littered with numerous cases like that.

Yes Doc

CatfishBilly:

Well, in medical research, patients are not identified, confidentiality clause, unless express permission is granted. And videos including YouTube defeats that purpose.
It is amazing that medical personnel tend to rubbish medical journals when it doesn't fit their rhetoric. But the hypocrisy now is that the same medical journals that you rubbish gave you the treatment guidelines you use to manage patients all in the name of evidence based medicine.
But the good news is that your opinion is irrelevant, it has been published in reputable journals and people that matter have accepted after it going through peer review of course.

So my opinion is irrelevant right? Ok then sir I suppose this article isn't from the same reputable medical journal you posted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2322888/

You can start reading from postgraduate medical training to understand the dishonesty in trusting journals without verification.

Like I said at the start I have on the field experience and can tell you what works and what doesn't. I am not a paper pusher.

spacetacular:



So my opinion is irrelevant right? Ok then sir I suppose this article isn't from the same reputable medical journal you posted.

://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2322888/

You can start reading from postgraduate medical training to understand the dishonesty in trusting journals without verification.

Like I said at the start I have on the field experience and can tell you what works and what doesn't. I am not a paper pusher.

For him, any "journal" is truth.
Yet he lampoons religious people for believing books.

spacetacular:


Actually sustained apnea can cause neurological death from the 1 minute mark and not 5minutes.

I disagree. I've read research articles that said 4 minutes, 3 minutes, 6 minutes. It all depends on a lot of factors like core temperature of the patient, age of the patient, underlying pulmonary diseases and other preexisting conditions.

Explain both clinical and brain death pls. I require both

Clinical death is simply lack of spontaneous CardioPulmonary effort. CardioPulmonary arrest if you will. Because of the legal implications, the time length has varied over the years, but the limit touted these days is 12 hours
Brain death is simply loss of spontaneous function of the CNS evidenced by flat waves on the EEG with loss of brain stem reflexes.

The crux

1. do we yet understand the human physiology absolutely? No

2. is there a 100% (absolute) medical procedure, by which death can be certified, in ALL cases of death suspicion? No

3. can we have a case of revitalization, after death has been certified, based on present level of medical procedures? Yes

4. do we have absolute medical explanation, for the rare cases of revitalized dead? No

5. Is whatever responsible for the revitalization, part of physiology of the dead? Yes

6. Could words (prayer), be responsible for the unknown? No

7. Therefore, "miraculous revitalization" is a religious assumption for the unknown.

akintom:
The crux

1. do we yet understand the human physiology absolutely? No

2. is there a 100% (absolute) medical procedure, by which death can be certified, in ALL cases of death suspicion? No

3. can we have a case of revitalization, after death has been certified, based on present level of medical procedures? Yes

4. do we have absolute medical explanation, for the rare cases of revitalized dead? No

5. Is whatever responsible for the revitalization, part of physiology of the dead? Yes

6. Could words (prayer), be responsible for the unknown? No

7. Therefore, "miraculous revitalization" is a religious assumption for the unknown.

Your points are contradicting each other