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Apr 21, 2023 at 4:46 PM Post #1,621 of 3,250
As I said above, if you can afford it, I recommend the Japanese WM1AM2. Obviously there are plenty of options on the market but, with Sony, I think you get more reliable hardware, better battery life and the flexibility of vanilla Android over most Chinese / Korean alternatives.
A lot of options but a lot of trade-offs, many of which don't address your concerns re. software updates either. Actually, if any manufacturer provides upgrades in Android versions, please let me know.

I passed on a discounted AM2 for the Japanese NZ-707. I would prefer to buy the next updated AM2 when it comes out simply because it will have Android 13, 14 or whatever. These are all consumable electronics with a useful life of about 3-5 years. Honestly, the high-end luxury players would be more appealing to me if they at least attempted to provide software updates for 2-3 years post-launch. I still can't believe the SP2000 shipped in 2021 with Android 8. AK is just smarter than Sony and know not to send their units for review by mainstream Youtubers. hahahaha!

On the flip side, I can spend $2-3K on a headphone and it will still be a great headphone 10+ years from now. All my headphones and IEMs I ever bought are still being used (often by my kids and other family members). I got a drawer full of old DAPs, fortunately none are gold plated.
 
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Apr 21, 2023 at 5:01 PM Post #1,622 of 3,250
One last observation for now. With AM2 I was impressed with the black background and the lack of any electrical noise / interference. With 707, with very sensitive headphones, you can hear the inner workings of the dap. It’s not obvious but if you focus you can hear a ringing which I suspect is generated by the computing parts which are not isolated properly from the audio circuitry. Even the screen seems to be affected - pressing a volume button for instance causes some artefacting / tearing on the screen. It is subtle but visible nonetheless.

I think the massive case of the AM2 / ZM2 minimises noise / vibration transference from the computing parts to the audio circuitry, copper more so than aluminium. There are actually separate compartments within the case to isolate the noisy circuitry from audio. The thin, single compartment case of the 707 provides minimum protection for the Audio circuitry and I suspect this is what grates my hearing, more so than the sound signature which is passable.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 5:05 PM Post #1,624 of 3,250
One last observation for now. With AM2 I was impressed with the black background and the lack of any electrical noise / interference. With 707, with very sensitive headphones, you can hear the inner workings of the dap. It’s not obvious but if you focus you can hear a ringing which I suspect is generated by the computing parts which are not isolated properly from the audio circuitry. Even the screen seems to be affected - pressing a volume button for instance causes some artefacting / tearing on the screen. It is subtle but visible nonetheless.

I think the massive case of the AM2 / ZM2 minimises noise / vibration transference from the computing parts to the audio circuitry, copper more so than aluminium. There are actually separate compartments within the case to isolate the noisy circuitry from audio. The thin, single compartment case of the 707 provides minimum protection for the Audio circuitry and I suspect this is what grates my hearing, more so than the sound signature which is passable.
I am fortunate to not be gifted with the abilities to hear this. I don't have tearing on the screen though. Maybe your unit is defective? I know there has been some debate on this thread about the firmware update affecting bass. We can all argue as much as we want, but there is a good chance not every unit is behaving the same.
 
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Apr 21, 2023 at 5:08 PM Post #1,625 of 3,250
sony-walkman-nw-zx707-700.jpg

I thought the ZX-707 had that internal plate to block interference. Looks similar to the AM2 except the battery is on the board instead of beside it?
I'm definitely not an electrical engineer. I always suspected the difference in sound was more software shenanigans than anything relating to physical construction (between the Sony players at least).
 
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Apr 21, 2023 at 5:18 PM Post #1,626 of 3,250
A lot of options but a lot of trade-offs, many of which don't address your concerns re. software updates either. Actually, if any manufacturer provides upgrades in Android versions, please let me know.

I passed on a discounted AM2 for the Japanese NZ-707. I would prefer to buy the next updated AM2 when it comes out simply because it will have Android 13, 14 or whatever. These are all consumable electronics with a useful life of about 3-5 years. Honestly, the high-end luxury players would be more appealing to me if they at least attempted to provide software updates for 2-3 years post-launch. I still can't believe the SP2000 shipped in 2021 with Android 8. AK is just smarter than Sony and know not to send their units for review by mainstream Youtubers. hahahaha!

On the flip side, I can spend $2-3K on a headphone and it will still be a great headphone 10+ years from now. All my headphones and IEMs I ever bought are still being used (often by my kids and other family members). I got a drawer full of old DAPs, fortunately none are gold plated.

Yes and no. I can argue that high end headphones are very much source dependent because they are an open window into the source - the more expensive the headphones, the more revealing. It’s no use having a 3000£ headphone with a 600£ DAP. In fact I would argue that a 3K pair of headphones is the equivalent of a 10K pair of speakers so you should consider a 10K DAC at that level. If all you have is a 707 you will never know what your headphones are truly capable of.

Now don’t get me wrong: AM2 is no dCS DAC. But it is, as I said above, a well rounded source, with a mature, easy going sound and no obvious flaws. You can listen to it for hours - it doesn’t shine as a DAC but it doesn’t grate, it’s not bright, it has an extended, well controlled low end, it has a lush midrange and none of this ringing I hear with 707. It’s a sound you can enjoy.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 5:21 PM Post #1,627 of 3,250
I am fortunate to not be gifted with the abilities to hear this. I don't have tearing on the screen though. Maybe your unit is defective? I know there has been some debate on this thread about the firmware update affecting bass. We can all argue as much as we want, but there is a good chance not every unit is behaving the same.
Maybe. I will continue to use it for another 200 hours or so and see what happens. Then it will very likely go on eBay and I will get another AM2 or a ZM2.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 5:34 PM Post #1,628 of 3,250
sony-walkman-nw-zx707-700.jpg

I thought the ZX-707 had that internal plate to block interference. Looks similar to the AM2 except the battery is on the board instead of beside it?
I'm definitely not an electrical engineer. I always suspected the difference in sound was more software shenanigans than anything relating to physical construction (between the Sony players at least).
Have you read the interview at the beginning of this thread? One of the Sony engineers was talking about the negative effect of the battery if not placed at the bottom of the board as on AM2/ ZM2 and how they addressed this issue on 707. Have they?

Also not sure what that copper plate is meant to screen from. Is it WiFi / Bluetooth? You are probably aware that the computing hardware generates noise which also affects the power supply, in this case the battery. Again, they justified picking an underpowered SOC by having less of an impact on battery, not just in terms of power consumption but also generating less spikes which would inevitably degrade audio performance.

Are AM2 & ZM2 also using a SOC?
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 5:40 PM Post #1,629 of 3,250
I am going to be in a minority here and say that I agree with the reviewers.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but, to me, the best looking DAP in the series is the AM2. Gold looks flash. That is one.

Two: the Android experience is underwhelming to say the least. Low resolution screen, slow SOC, lag. The fact that one has to even consider tweaking Android to get a reasonably fluid experience at this price point is lame.

Sony's software support is notoriously bad. AM2 / ZM2 are stuck in the Android 11 limbo. 707 will never get past 12. Why ? Because if you want 14, you will need to buy the next Sony contraption which will be released in a year or two. This is also the case with their TVs, cameras (even the full frame range) and so on. So what you see is what you get. Don't assume any future development on the software side, besides minor performance improvements and debugging.

In terms of sound quality I got the Japanese version of 707 after sending back a capped AM2. And I have to say, AM2 is miles better, even with the power cap. While AM2 offers a mature, balanced, refined presentation which has weight, depth, transparency and a level of detail which is hard to fathom considering the form factor and price, 707 sounds thin and digital by comparison. The low end is missing. The detail retrieval is underwhelming. The presentation is at best flat and uninvolving. At its worst it actually grates, upsets, it is hard etched and tinnitus inducing. I expect the sound will improve slightly over time. It did with AM2. But for the minor price difference the difference in sound quality and even build quality is substantial. AM2 is a no brainer. 707 for me is a hard sell.

If you are to consider a capped 707, I honestly don't see the point. It is not going to drive serious headphones. It is only marginally better than a dongle attached to your phone. Android is slow to boot and lagging. The battery life is underwhelming. I don't enjoy the sound signature with my IEM (JH13 Pro) or my headphones.

In short, to all of those sitting on the fence who can afford the AM2, I do NOT recommend the 707. I loved listening to my music on the AM2 and used to spend hours with my customs or my big cans. I have to take breaks with 707 and simply don't like what I am hearing.

This of course is my experience with my gear.
So strange how you haven't posted on head-fi for over 9 years, then come in here to crap all over the ZX707 and to make some wild claims.

Everyone has their own opinions but it's so out of pocket to say things like...
The low end is missing. The detail retrieval is underwhelming. The presentation is at best flat and uninvolving. At its worst it actually grates, upsets, it is hard etched and tinnitus inducing.
Or
It is only marginally better than a dongle attached to your phone.
And
But for the minor price difference the difference in sound quality and even build quality is substantial.

Low end is definitely not missing. Detail retrieval is not underwhelming. Presentation is flat and uninvolving? Seriously what IEMs or headphones are you using to be making these silly claims? Because everything you're saying is the opposite of my experience with the Japanese 707.

To claim there's "minor price difference" between WM1AM2 and ZX707 is also stupendously ridiculous. Japanese WM1AM2 is twice the cost of a Japanese ZX707.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 5:44 PM Post #1,630 of 3,250
Apr 21, 2023 at 6:06 PM Post #1,631 of 3,250
Have you read the interview at the beginning of this thread? One of the Sony engineers was talking about the negative effect of the battery if not placed at the bottom of the board as on AM2/ ZM2 and how they addressed this issue on 707. Have they?
I did actually and everything I have experienced, from the less than stellar screen and the sluggish UI response and the increased battery life from just lowering power consumption all line up with what they said in the interview. These are the very same compromises that mainstream reviewers just take a crap on.

You are suggesting that in spite of all the measures they took to suppress noise, they still failed. I am suggesting maybe your unit is defective, or you have better ears than the Sony engineers? The same team of (loveable) dorks that started doing homeopathic gold dilutions in their solder?

Unfortunately, all these units are still produced on a line in China, so some poor underpaid worker could have splooged "gold" solder all over a unit, or not screwed in the magic interference force field correctly. I would trust Sony's engineering more than their production QA. The engineers only have to get it right once.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 6:06 PM Post #1,632 of 3,250
So strange how you haven't posted on head-fi for over 9 years, then come in here to crap all over the ZX707 and to make some wild claims.

Everyone has their own opinions but it's so out of pocket to say things like...

Or

And


Low end is definitely not missing. Detail retrieval is not underwhelming. Presentation is flat and uninvolving? Seriously what IEMs or headphones are you using to be making these silly claims? Because everything you're saying is the opposite of my experience with the Japanese 707.

To claim there's "minor price difference" between WM1AM2 and ZX707 is also stupendously ridiculous. Japanese WM1AM2 is twice the cost of a Japanese ZX707.
You can attack the person or contribute something useful to this conversation. Over the last 9 years I have been busy working / building a stereo system to my liking. I am blessed with a dCS Vivaldi so I think I can make pretty valid judgements regarding sources. I have a class A Gryphon amplifier driving Raidho speakers but in the past I had class D Devialet, class D Eigentakt courtesy of NAD etc.

And along this journey I lost much of my interest in headphones because, well, even at low volume, late at night, I will take speakers over headphones any day.

I still have a couple of headphones from back in the day but I mainly use the DAP on my daily commute with a pair of custom Jerry Harvey 13 Pro. And on this commute I tried various dongles simply because I couldn’t be bothered to carry a DAP as well as an iPhone with me to work, until I decided to try the AM2. Also because, until recently, such a DAP - an Android player allowing me to use offline Qobuz / Tidal / Apple Music content - manufactured by a reputable company, did not exist. I remember my days with Cowon, ibasso, Hifiman etc and life is too short for ripping, transferring files from a computer etc.

Has this answered your question?
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 6:09 PM Post #1,633 of 3,250
I did actually and everything I have experienced, from the less than stellar screen and the sluggish UI response and the increased battery life from just lowering power consumption all line up with what they said in the interview. These are the very same compromises that mainstream reviewers just take a crap on.

You are suggesting that in spite of all the measures they took to suppress noise, they still failed. I am suggesting maybe your unit is defective, or you have better ears than the Sony engineers? The same team of (loveable) dorks that started doing homeopathic gold dilutions in their solder?

Unfortunately, all these units are still produced on a line in China, so some poor underpaid worker could have splooged "gold" solder all over a unit, or not screwed in the magic interference force field correctly. I would trust Sony's engineering more than their production QA. The engineers only have to get it right once.
Or I have very sensitive IEM which are more revealing than your average earphones.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 6:10 PM Post #1,634 of 3,250
You can attack the person or contribute something useful to this conversation. Over the last 9 years I have been busy working / building a stereo system to my liking. I am blessed with a dCS Vivaldi so I think I can make pretty valid judgements regarding sources. I have a class A Gryphon amplifier driving Raidho speakers but in the past I had class D Devialet, class D Eigentakt courtesy of NAD etc.

And along this journey I lost much of my interest in headphones because, well, even at low volume, late at night, I will take speakers over headphones any day.

I still have a couple of headphones from back in the day but I mainly use the DAP on my daily commute with a pair of custom Jerry Harvey 13 Pro. And on this commute I tried various dongles simply because I couldn’t be bothered to carry a DAP as well as an iPhone with me to work, until I decided to try the AM2. Also because, until recently, such a DAP - an Android player allowing me to use offline Qobuz / Tidal / Apple Music content - manufactured by a reputable company, did not exist. I remember my days with Cowon, ibasso, Hifiman etc and life is too short for ripping, transferring files from a computer etc.

Has this answered your question?
No, not really. I asked what IEMs or headphones you are using with the ZX707 to be making your wild claims. You went off on more tangents that nobody cares about.

Also, I didn't personally attack you. I attacked your ridiculous claims about the ZX707.
 
Apr 21, 2023 at 6:19 PM Post #1,635 of 3,250
Very interesting writeup on SuperBestAudioFriends re: both 707 and AM2 validates what you've been asserting.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...dap-discussion-thread.174/page-82#post-405764

Yep, the translation is so so but essentially what I value most in a source these days is natural timbres, a smooth, refined, analogue-like presentation. I don’t know how many of you have had the chance to play with a cassette Walkman back in the day. Or heard a Nakamichi Dragon. A Revox tape recorder. A high end vinyl rig. Or my Vivaldi Apex for that matter with a class A or valve amp. You get amazing detail with a Benchmark but there is good reason why people pay ridiculous prices for a Nagra or a MSB or a dCS. To those people AM2 / ZM2 would appeal whereas a 707 would not.
 

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