2010 Qualitative British Election Study The First Leaders’ Debate Public version This transcript is based on the audio recording of a focus group held in London, England on 19 ‎May ‎2010 following the formation of the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition as a result of the 2010 General Election. All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity. Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication. Conventions used We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear. Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc. Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words. Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word + Moderator: First of all, thank you all for coming. I appreciate your time and effort in getting here. To start with, in the interests of reducing the amount of paperwork, instead of you having you sign a consent form, the consent forms haven’t changed at all so I just thought that what I’d do is just go over them verbally and as long as you all consent could you just nod at the camera after I read this and I think that will constitute informed consent, there’s nothing that’s changed in the conditions, it’s the same agreement that we had before. So just to remind you what the agreement was before and the conditions of which remain the same as for the focus group. But it’s just that you understand that you have the right, if you can call it a right, but you can ask me questions at any time, contact by e-mail for any reason to get any information about the project. You understand that you are being recorded both in terms of an audio and video recording and that those recordings will be deposited with the UK Data Archive on the condition that both myself and any of my assistants and any future researchers protect you anonymity and confidentiality by never using any identifying information either direct identifiers such as where you work or indirect identifiers such as the city or street where you live. You agree that you are signing copyright of your words to me so that I can, if necessary take quotes and put them into publications or other websites or things like that. If you’ve already contacted me about, in the last form you put whether you wanted to be contacted about future publications and whatever you indicated there, will just stand again unless you have changed your mind and then you can just contact me. Personal details such as your phone number and address will be kept with me, and me only, actually none of my assistants either will have access to that information, and that you are freely agreeing to participate in this research and that you understand that it is protected by the professional ethical code of conduct. So is that ok with everyone. So as I mentioned before but not everyone was here because it was a sort of a pre-group chat, I did two of these groups last night and they didn’t take the full 90 minutes. What I’d like to do in this Post-Election Focus Group is to go through a chronological narrative for each of you in terms of: If you decided to vote, what the things that went through in your mind as you came to make your final decision on that day, or if you were undecided or even if you had made up your mind before, you know, what that process was like for you. And the next thing is: What was your reaction to the outcome? -If you can cast your mind back when you first learned about it; did you watch it on the television that night or did you turn on the next morning and what did you think about the result. And the next part of the discussion would be the four or five days of negotiations that took place after the result and your reactions to or thoughts about that process; and then the coalition announcement with David Cameron and Nick Clegg coming forward to announce a full coalition government. And then moving forward: What do you think the future holds - are you generally pessimistic, optimistic, undecided about where this government will take us over the next six months to one year? The other thing that I should say is that it is a secret ballot, how you voted is ultimately your private business and I cannot require you to divulge to me how you voted as a condition of this project. So if you decide that your vote is private and is something that you don’t want to reveal you are under no obligation and you should feel no pressure to tell anybody, us, or to say in this room how you voted. That being said, I really want to know how you voted. (laughter) But it’s not a requirement, you know, you’ve got your money so there’s no compelling there, but I am deeply interested so I’m going to put my cards on the table. So, yes, I guess the first thing is, the first part is: Were you undecided or had you made up your mind before you went to the polling station? In the end did you end up not voting -some people in the last group wanted to vote but hadn’t because of conflicts and not being able to get to the polls that day. - And what were the things that were going through your mind when you finally put your ‘x’ if you did vote, next to the party that you chose. So just to, kind of tell a story -it doesn’t have to start with ‘once upon a time’ but just as if you were relating to a friend, what it was like for you. Would anyone volunteer to start? Carole I can start. I wasn’t decided before the last focus group but coming to this focus group I started thinking it probably isn’t a wise idea for me to vote, what do you call it, when you vote for somebody you wouldn’t ordinarily vote for - tactically. Anyhow, what I did on the day of the elections was actually look at the last election’s results to see what the difference was between -I live in a large Conservative stronghold- and the difference was astronomical. I just think there is no point in me voting Labour under this current system. If we had a ‘one for one’ vote I would have voted Labour this time but as it was I thought I would stick to my usual, the Green Party for both the General and local. So that’s what was going through my mind, what was last year’s results and that helped me decide. Moderator Yeah you were going to vote for the party you prefer as opposed to a tactical vote. Great, that very interesting. Thank you, Carole. Ida I guess, kind of similarly really, at the last focus group I was a bit torn between Labour or maybe voting Lib-Dems, you know, I really didn’t want the Conservatives in power but in the end I voted Labour because, well because they were the party I preferred and because the MP in my constituency was apparently Labour. I felt that he was a good MP and had done some good things and I wanted to keep him in. The Conservatives couldn’t have won in my constituency so it was between Lib-Dem and Labour. Moderator Thank you. Iris? Iris Although I don’t agree with many of the policies that the Labour government have conducted over the last thirteen years that they’ve been in power, when it came to the voting and when I had informative, you know on the candidates, the Labour candidate in my area Karen Buck, a very, very well known member of Parliament, very visible in the community, I’d also had some dealings with her, I know how hard working she was, how committed she is, you know, she doesn’t just see it as her job, she is there representing the community at grassroots level, understands the needs of the community. So at the end of the day I thought whatever my disagreement is with the Labour government policies, at the end of the day I was voting for her. I wanted to vote for a very good MP who I know has done a great job and will continue. And also her opposition was brought in, I don’t know if any of you knew, is it Joanne Cash who was brought in, the MP who the Conservatives brought in to oppose Karen Buck - Carole I know it was a marginal seat and they lumped a big area in with her that would have been Conservative so she was on very dodgy ground. Iris That’s right, so at the end of the day I was so happy that a Member of Parliament managed to get her back in. I do not think the Conservative MP, Joanne, would have really understood the needs, it’s very diverse community, lots of ethnic communities, lots of needs, it’s a very complicated area and Karen Buck knows here business well. She’s been a great Member of Parliament. I did vote Labour and I’m very happy that she got voted back in. So when ‘push came to shove’ whatever my disagreement was with the Labour policies as a whole I wanted to vote for a great local MP whose shown to have done a good job and will continue. Moderator That’s great, so in the end your politics was local. Iris Yeah. I had to differentiate my disagreement with national Labour and bring it back down to sort of grassroots level and what it’s really about, what Members of Parliament do for their community. And also, she was one of those MPs who was never involved in those scandals, so at the end of the day…You could also bring it back down to grass roots level. Politics should be about the community the represents them. If you do think that your local MP has done a great job despite what the national party do, I think you should take that into consideration as I did. Moderator Very interesting. Thank you. Roger There’s elements of my situation which mirror the same sort of pattern in that it was a decision between Labour and the Liberal Party and as a long-term Labour voter I wasn’t used to having to face a decision on that course so much. And the area I live in is Wood Green and Muswell Hill. It used to be Labour consistently and then in the previous election it was won by Liberal Lynne Featherstone and she’s very good at getting her name out there. So I was very aware of that and she did genuinely engage with a lot of local issues so I was kind of ‘pro’ her but there was a sense in which it was very much about ‘her’ whereas with the Labour party in the area I was hearing more about the team and the group of people -still the same issues they were engaged in but it didn’t seem to be quite a PR exercise. I’m still thinking, what will the switch from back to Labour here or staying with the Liberals - which one of these two is the most protection for me from a Tory government. I ended up choosing Labour. There was, on my part, the way she put her face into every situation wasn’t always about doing the work - I thought the work was being done by all the parties. There was more of the sense of a ‘team’ with the Labour Party. And it really came down to, literally, the ballot box and it came to the point of -How will I feel when I see the results come in. Because I couldn’t decide as at the point of voting what I wanted and I couldn’t tactically vote because I didn’t know what the setup was going to be, I didn’t know how close it would be. I suspected that it would probably stay Liberal and that there wasn’t much I could do about that because of the general anger with the Labour Party. And I thought, I would be pleased if I saw it change to Labour and so I decided to go for that. It was trying to work out, a bit like, when you don’t know what you want out of something and you ‘flip a coin’ and once you know what the result is you know what you would rather have had - So I tried to picture a result and then how I felt about it. So I voted Labour. It didn’t change the situation. Lynne stayed in her job, not to say that she isn’t good at it. But it was also interesting that it didn’t have the big national change in that party as expected or as soon as being promoted by the media. Moderator That’s been really helpful and insightful, thank you. Helen Well it was kind off easy for me because in my constituency we’ve had a Lib-Dem majority for years and years - it’s Ed Davey and he won again and he’s done some good work in our constituency so it was easy for me, and I didn’t want to work Conservative or Labour. Moderator Great. So you had the easiest time it sounds like so far of the people because you had the party that you wanted in.. Helen Well we just always had the Lib-Dem majority by quite a large amount so even if I didn’t want to vote for them I don’t think it would have made much difference anyway. Moderator Anyone else? Alison Did nobody vote Conservative or won’t they admit it? We won’t attack you, I promise. (laugh) Andrew I didn’t vote. Moderator It’s ok that you didn’t, at the last group I had some who didn’t. Andrew I kinda thought I knew on the day that I was voting ‘cos like all I was getting was ‘vote Labour, make the right choice’ and after a guy came to my door and I felt harassed really. That’s why I didn’t vote, I felt really harassed. Like, they were forcing me to choose Labour - ok, they were giving me their points. I didn’t really have the knowledge to know what the points all meant, who to vote for so I thought it would be better like not to vote. Maybe I should have voted but I thought at the time it’s kind of like I should see it for myself - I didn’t want to vote for someone who maybe lacked down the line or I’d feel like I made a mistake. I feel like I made a correct choice by not voting ‘cos like I wasn’t going feel I was just voting ‘cos they’re asking me to. Moderator So if knew what you wanted… Andrew Yeah, if I knew what I wanted and I could see what they’re planning to do then I could really, like, make a choice that I felt was correct instead of just voting for voting. Moderator Thank you. Daniel After doing the thing, the focus group I was resigned that I was going to vote (laughter) So because of various - I used to live in another country and then I came back and I’m not living in my house, I’m living somewhere else and when I went back to my house to get my card, for some reason - someone else who’s living there at the moment is registered and I’m not apparently. So it was an oversight on my part, and just being manically busy, whatever. In fact it turned out that my parents they were in London for something and they couldn’t go back to where they lived to vote so they got stuck because their car broke down or something and none of us voted and we were discussing how we felt about not voting. It was the first time that I’d been here, and was going to do it, especially after this group, it was really useful just getting those newspaper questionnaire things that we were talking about, it was really good. So in the end -and I was just really surprised - the Gordon Brown thing was really funny - just couldn’t believe it that day when I got home and saw that. And then when the Opinion Poll came in I was really surprised as well. And, uh, I was probably going to vote for the Liberal Democrats after going through those tests and I looked at a few things in the media and I was interested to see that, I felt like he had some kind of balls, that he was saying stuff that I thought that- it’s a subjective thing, I mean I don’t know if it’s true but I felt he was… authentic.. Moderator Nick Clegg was more authentic than- Daniel Yeah, and I just felt, after seeing the Labour thing and just knowing a lot about PR and stuff - just how when he got in the car and said: ‘Whose idea was this’ and it sounded as if it were so managed, you know and I thought –‘Naaa, this is all rubbish’- But know I’ve read all the biographies and I got into the whole like, who went to what school and Nick Clegg used to be a Conservative Party and all that kind of stuff. So that’s it really, I wanted to stay up and watch it, I got really excited watching them running around with the boxes but I just had to sleep because I had to go to work. I don’t know if we talking about the result part- Moderator No, it’s a natural transition, I think everyone’s had a chance- Daniel Ok, so I felt that it was good that he’s in there as well - Moderator Clegg? Daniel -yeah, so it felt like there was some salad with the meat kind of thing, kind of a more of a balanced type thing - like I said I’m an amateur on these kind of things. So I was happy in a sense. I do really appreciate what you said [indication toward Andrew] about though in not wanting to contribute to something that could be a disaster. If you don’t know then let’s not open the fuse box, let the electrician kinda do it - I know what you’re saying. But after this last time, it was really valuable, I think everyone should do this I think it’s really useful just to see other people’s perspectives. Anyway, thanks. Moderator Actually it’s funny how many people have said, -Well we came here, did this and I went away and thought about it- That’s great. So in terms of the result itself, we’ll talk a little about what the coalition ended up being but when you learnt that there was going to be a there was a hung Parliament were you surprised about that result or were you expecting a hung Parliament or were you just like-Oh, that’s interesting. Daniel Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised, I would say and I thought it was probably a good thing. But you know just in my opinion. In my opinion it’s a good thing because it’s not an ‘all or nothing’ situation, there’ll be more dialogue and more representation, various views. I was excited actually that -Oh ok this is different, it’s not the same thing every day and waking up when you’re 65 and thinking -Oh god what have I done, instead of waking up and thinking -ok, let’s change. So I think that could be a healthy thing. That was my conclusion. Moderator Ok, yeah - opinions are- you know, we’re not looking for expertise Daniel I was just worried. I hate talking about things that I don’t know about, cuz then they feel like fake kind of thing. Moderator Fair enough, ok. Other people, in terms of the night or the morning after. Did you watch the results or did you watch Eastenders. Carole No, I didn’t make it all the way through, I was in the Union Bar and then I went back with somebody for a while and then the first results came through were Sunderland which is all Labour and- good, good but um and I ended up having to go back home and go to bed so I didn’t see what the results were until the following day and I was gutted. I expected a hung Parliament but I really didn’t want the Conservatives to have more votes. I was so upset. Moderator So you would have preferred to see Labour get enough votes to put together a Lib-Lab…? Carole I still thought that they could have done. Clegg was being such an idiot and going with the Conservatives. Moderator Well, we’ll talk about the coalition in a bit - but you were surprised and then really disappointed. Carole I was – I was gutted, I won’t say I was seriously surprised, I was expecting a hung Parliament. And I didn’t think there would be a huge amount - the biggest surprise for me was actually how badly Liberals did when they’d had all this hype and all this media thing, that to me was the biggest surprise. I was upset that Conservatives got more than Labour. Moderator Anyone else? Helen Yeah, I was surprised about the Lib-Dems, when they lost a few seats. Moderator Yeah, a 1% increase in their overall vote, but they lost a seat. Helen Yeah, I was really surprised because I watched the exit polls which I think turned out to be quite accurate. I think, I sort of expected the Conservative majority overall, but I was just kind of hoping that they wouldn’t. I wasn’t that surprised but I was surprised by the Lib-Dems not doing as well as they thought they were going to. Roger I seem to remember the exit polls expecting a higher majority for the Tories when they first closed the… Moderator 305, 255 and 59 but then they adjusted them a bit. Roger I remember seeing the exit poll when they closed the ballot and think -Oh my god it’s terrible then I was watching most of the night until about 5.00 or 6.00 and I had to be back here by 8.30 so I only had an hour and a half’s sleep. But I hadn’t been working the day beforehand so I kind of prepped for that by staying later the day beforehand so I was in a slightly disoriented state, hence not remembering the exit polls or any of the details -I wasn’t watching that clearly. Yeah, the disappointment with the Liberals not fulfilling what was being expected. Most of it was the fear of the Tories votes as success grew and knowing where the marking point was and as that slowed I realised it wasn’t going to be a significant majority government. It felt quite a relief actually. I suppose we’ve been quite used to majority governments from both sides, both the Conservatives and Labour Party. I was expecting a massive anger vote against the Labour Party and a significant vote for the Liberal Party and partly it didn’t happen and enough to tip a muzzle on the beast as far as I was concerned. Ok, it gets to walk freely around the park but it can’t bite anybody it wants to. So yeah, I’ve come away not feeling quite as battered and bruised as it could have been um, but pensive for the future. Moderator Thank you for that. Anyone else? Elizabeth Well, I intended to see it but I didn’t make it the whole way through. I sort of had naps and then got up again but I kind of got frustrated because, you know, obviously there was no conclusive result so it was just frustrating I suppose. At this point I was actually with a group of friends one of whom had been working for a Lib-Dem MP and he was just completely gutted, so um that was the biggest surprise, that Lib-Dems did so badly, comparatively, to what was expected. Moderator And when you found out, realised it was going to be a hung Parliament do you remember your reactions to that? Elizabeth I wasn’t that surprised. It’s kind of like you said (gesturing toward Daniel) It was kind of exciting like, I remember thinking this is good to live thr-, this will be in the history books as it were. So it’s quite interesting to be living through…because when was the last one, 1974? Moderator Yeah. Iris, what were your - did you watch it or did you turn off the tv? Iris I did watch quite a bit, I stayed up until 1.00 but was beaten by exhaustion. I actually thought -Oh gosh it’s going to be Conservative. I actually expected there to be a huge protest vote from the Labour that would go on - I expected the Lib-Dems, the protest vote to have gone from Labour to the Lib-Dems so the traditional Labour voter I thought would have gone and switched to the Lib-Dems. So I was completely, you know, because I thought -ok what’s going to happen - people like me are angry about Labour policies but they’re not going to, you know, they have enough memory to know that they don’t want a Tory government back in power so they would have switched to Lib-Dems. So I was so surprised the next morning when I got up and I thought –‘So they haven’t switched, they’re not as angry’ because they know, possibly because they know, a lot of them that a vote for the Lib-Dems -who is it that said that -You vote for the Lib-Dems and you’ll get Cameron. How true that worked. How true that statement became. So, obviously I think the voters will have realised that, they may have been angry but at the end of the day, if they had switched to the Lib-Dems they would have inadvertently brought Cameron back. I was very interested to learn of the results and finally I wanted to see how the British cope with these kind of situations, I’m half Italian, so we’ve had about 48 governments since the Second World War and we’re quite happy when a government falls and we have these situations far worse and, you know, life continues. But I wanted to see how the British cope with these situations, you know, and everybody seems to be doom and gloom and the economists saying the economy is going to fall, and the pound, and this but it didn’t happen at all. I’m glad to see that it got people talking about politics; politics to people who weren’t traditionally interested, suddenly became the number one topic indoors. Politics became interesting again to the ordinary person on the street, everyone was talking about being- and the election results. I was really pleased that it brought people’s interest, so the hung Parliament brought peoples interest back to politics, so that pleased me in that sense. But yeah, very disappointed that Labour did not do more to avoid the Tory Party coming into power. They really missed an opportunity and I feel that will go down in the history books; they should have tried really harder to form a coalition with the Lib-Dems, I don’t understand why they didn’t try harder. Moderator Andrew, when did you find out or where you watching it that night? Andrew No, I put the TV on and after that I was looking at that the little red boxes and little coloured boxes and numbers and I was just like ‘What am I looking at?’ - I was really confused and after that it was way over, the numbers, for me to stop and see clearly what was happening. I saw Conservatives were the biggest number and they won and I was told afterwards they hadn’t won because they had to reach… Moderator 326 Andrew -yeah and afterwards, like there was a hung Parliament and I was just kind of interested then. ‘Cos I’m not a person who’s really into that, politics and stuff but since the last focus group it’s kind of become more interesting and more like something to read about and look into. And like I just kind of think it’s really interesting. Like I wasn’t really disappointed because I don’t know why I should be disappointed in it. Right? I think everyone talking about, like trying to work together as a team, and that’s right, right? Well yeah. The only thing I think is, for me, like, it doesn’t become much of a democracy any more it’s like a dictatorship in a way, like they’re all doing one thing and we all kind of like voted for them to be into power but I don’t know I find it really interesting to be in a hung Parliament and it’s something I have to read about more though. Cause like I don’t understand like the rules and stuff. Moderator Yeah, I think they’re kind of making it up as the go along. There are some things in terms of like, you still need a majority to get votes. Andrew You know, as she said, I think it’s had a good effect on politics now the younger people are actually like looking into politics. Like people who are really just ignorant and young and stuff but they’re actually interested in it now so I think it’s a good thing cause right now people will read up on it and when it comes to voting again they will vote. Cause they will be like up on - Moderator So if you pay attention to it now then next time… Andrew Yeah, next time you’ll have a clear picture and your reasons why. Did you want to say something? Daniel Yeah, I was going to say that Facebook definitely was an interesting angle in this period. Because I was surprised cause I - we didn’t have Facebook last time so it was interesting to see -Ah that’s interesting, people are quite passionate about it- and I think that the social effect of Facebook, maybe peer pressure or influence of some kind, I thought that was really interesting- Moderator So you’re thinking like when you go on to the Newsfeed page, look in to see what groups they’re joining.. Daniel -yeah, or you know someone saying -Last minute -everyone vote Labour- or someone saying -Thank god we got rid of him. Andrew There was one that said -Why were you late for class – because David Cameron took my ** or something like that. Daniel Yeah and also the satirical angles as well were quite informative, because people poking fun at someone’s policy didn’t know about the policy - the joke was illuminating -Oh that’s what they think. I found it quite useful. Moderator Yeah, I get a lot of my information from Have I Got News for You. Daniel Yeah, exactly, exactly. Moderator (laugh) I probably shouldn’t say that on record. So, we have a result, we have a hung Parliament. I just want to ask you two things about the four or five days that it took to finally get the government announced. One is just in terms of your impressions, or maybe other people you knew. Was it, in terms of the time that it took, were you impatient about it, did you think it should have taken less time than it took - if you don’t have opinions on this that’s fine - or just your impressions of the negotiations. Did you think it was enough time, were people around you impatient? So in terms of like your actual reaction - maybe you were watching it, kind of half paying attention to see what the outcome was. So, in terms of your life and your personal life - if you had any thoughts on that. And also, if you have any recollections of how the media was covering it - if you had any thoughts and reactions on that. I saw you nod your head…. Helen No, no, I was nodding to the media thing, because I remember I can remember who he is, the big BBC man, Nick something? Moderator Nick Robinson? Helen Does he wear glasses? He was saying, he was on the radio saying how frustrating it was the few days because they just couldn’t get any information and they weren’t ready when Brown stepped outside and then he went up to the Queen and stuff and everybody was -Oh, oh we’re not ready-. So yeah in terms of the media, there was a lot of discussion about it but it didn’t really, I didn’t learn any more from media in those few days because I think they didn’t know anything. Because I kind of knew what was going to happen, I didn’t really want it to happen. Like when I saw - And I was at home and I turned on the news and it was Daniel Cameron going to see the Queen and I felt a bit sick, and I was just like ‘oh, great,’ but I knew it was going to happen anyway. Moderator So over the course of the four days, when there was a discussion of, I think they called it the traffic lights: the coalition, the progressive coalition, the Lib-Dems and the conservatives - Did you have any impression of the Lib-Dems working with the Conservatives or the progressive alliance? Helen I think it was interesting how, I don’t really understand how it works - I thought it was strange how they went and talked to the Conservatives first but then I thought maybe that’s how it has to be because the Conservatives got the most number of votes. I don’t really know how it works. I was kind of hoping that Labour and Lib-Dem but then I thought that just doesn’t really make sense because they’re the two with the least amount of votes. But even now I think it’s just weird because the Lib-Dems who have always been a really small party now with Conservatives. I was hearing like this morning that William Hague and Nick Clegg are going to move in together in some mansion in Kent or something. (laughter) Moderator Presumably there are offices there. (laughter) Helen You wouldn’t have ever thought that a year ago, it just seems really bizarre. I wasn’t really impatient in those few days because I think I didn’t really know what was going on. But then I think a lot of journalists didn’t really know what was going on, they were just talking about -Oh what if this happens - what if that happens. I think that the politicians were being quite secretive about what was happening. Moderator That was definitely I think the case. Has anyone else thoughts on the time that it took to get the coalition organised? Carole I was just praying that it was going to fall through Conservative- I couldn’t see how that was going to work - over recent years Liberals had been more left-wing certainly when Blair had the Labour Party, Liberal were more left-wing so it didn’t make sense to me that they- he didn’t want to be with Brown who is certainly more left-wing than Blair, and he wanted to go in with Cameron I mean that I found odd. I’d heard, I hadn’t seen much on the media, I was so busy revising for exams but I’d heard that he’d refused to work with Brown and that was disappointing, I’m thinking -what can they do, perhaps Brown resigns and they put someone else in- But Cameron, I mean now they’re at fairly opposite ends of the pole and I just hope you know, they can hold the line - I notice all the pressure groups and all the NGOs are like -Right, we’ve got a hung Parliament let’s make them do this, let’s make them do that, I just hope, I just hope that comes from it. Moderator Anyone else on those last four or five days of negotiations? Roger I enjoyed it. I liked the fact that it isn’t all pre-set, tidied and packaged and presented as a fait-accompli and that actually there’s some work being done by people who are trying to understand the changing situation which is the job of politicians. Um, I liked, I didn’t want it rushed-. I didn’t want them to come to a conclusion without examining all the possibilities. Um, I liked the fact that things changed, it was intriguing that you’d get you know, I found out in the afternoon - I can’t remember which day it was - via Twitter, that Gordon Brown had stepped down that day. First, it was intriguing, things were happening, huge events were happening around me and I was keeping up with them whilst still carrying on with my life and I felt that’s the kind of thing I want in my life - I want to be able to carry on doing what I’m doing and also have an understanding of events as they move - so that seemed pleasing to me. I liked the whole process. My expectation when I heard Brown was ‘dropping in, dropping out’ or leaving his role as the leader of the party was that this was opening the door to an alliance with the Liberal party because they’d said ‘I can’t work with Brown’. I’ve heard since that the Labour Party didn’t offer anything - they did not go for it. Now whether, no obviously there is a degree - these are politicians so you don’t trust what they say necessarily- but it did make me think that maybe there is a ‘long game’ there, that a coalition of losers will never have the backing of the electorate in an enthusiastic way, will always be out-voted by a large um, Tory membership, so why not step down gracefully, let them deal with all the trouble you’ve caused in terms of the finances - I mean they had literally this terminology in regards to ‘there’s no money left’. So, yeah, Labour knew- They didn’t volunteer themselves up to deal with the problems, they thought this will destroy the Conservative Party. They’ve not been as successful as they’d hoped, they don’t have as many members, they can’t do much, there’s somebody else in there that’s going to keep control - the Labour Party have backed off. It’s a fairly smart idea, it allows them to let all the disaster unfurl and um, in a position of some knowledge about what those disasters are. So for the time being, they are a most informed opposition. Maybe in five years’ time they will be ready to do something again, but that’s politically, it doesn’t connect with emotional- it doesn’t connect with the general treatment and well-being of people, it’s about their own personal power politics and hopefully Clair may allow some humanity into the situation. She certainly seems to have done, I mean they’re dropping the ID cards, which was quite wonderful, I was very pleased about that. Though I never knew that he was a Tory, you said earlier (speaks to Daniel) that he was a - Daniel Clegg, yeah. Although it was on Wikipedia, so you take that as… Roger I’m going to have to check that out… Daniel Yeah, he went to Cambridge and then at Cambridge he was a member of the Conservative Club. Roger Does kind of also say why they’d be able to work together. There was the school background and there is… Daniel He’s coming from quite a well-to-do background. He went to Westminster School, which apparently is a good school, you know, private school. Roger You can’t predict, really and truly, it’s either that he has moral convictions of a left ideology and trying to present something different within that environment or he is a politician and he knew that that was what was going to sell him most votes and now he’s actually ‘in bed’ with another of his schoolmates and um, he will be the ‘soft-face’ of the Tory Party that will allow them to be electable. Moderator Ida did you have a chance to talk yet on the coalition? Ida No, I was just interested in (to Roger) what you’ve said about it maybe being the downfall of the Tories but I think more, it’s the downfall of the Liberal Party because, because I think, from stuff I’ve read, so many of the Liberal Party members were against Clegg forming the coalition and so I think that’s really going to turn the Party from the inside really. That’s kind of what I was getting the impression over the course of them making the decision but it was someone else, I can’t remember who was saying that they were surprised they decided to form a coalition with the Tories - I didn’t expect that at all because, I think as you said, traditionally, they’re more left-wing than right-wing, so.. Moderator Did you expect a minority government? Ida I thought that probably the Labour party would try and form with Lib-Dem and then a couple -the Green MP and maybe- Moderator One from Northern Ireland Assemby.. Ida Yeah, yeah – but, um, obviously that didn’t happen but I think, in terms of - you mentioned before, the media coverage, like I think it’s not really coverage but what I saw in the media when they broadcast Gordon Brown’s speech about saying -‘I’m speaking as your Prime Minister now, and not as sort of the Labour Party Leader’, sort of saying that he was going to give Clegg and Cameron the chance to try and form a coalition. I was thinking, why, what are you doing? As I understand it -correct me if I’m wrong- isn’t the party who isn’t the current government don’t they get the first refusal at trying to form a coalition? Is that right? Moderator That was my understanding. Basically the Prime Minster stays the Prime Minister until he resigns so he would have the sort of one can say, the first ‘dibs’ to try form a… Ida -to try and form a coalition, so I was kind of thinking -So why are you saying that you’ll let them go off and talk -why.. yeah, I just wasn’t sure that that was kind of tactful the -I’m going to be a battered-…in the long-term sort of thing… Moderator I don’t know if you saw this bit - Nick Clegg did come out and say -‘I’m going to negotiate with the party that got the most votes’. Ida Yeah, because he said he didn’t want to work with the minority vote, a minority- Moderator And in terms of how long it took did you have any anxiety about that or? Ida Well, I kind of, I guess my attention waned a little bit towards the last couple of days. I was really interested at first and then when there were no concrete answers and I was like, lost a bit of interest but it sort of renewed when they finally decided what was going to happen, I obviously wasn’t very happy about it. Moderator People looked a bit dazed, so have some cookies for a sugar boost, I’m passing them around… Iris, do you mind telling us a little bit about your reaction about the time it took to form a government. Iris Um I think that the timing was right, actually if it had take a little longer it would have been better. I found the whole thing by media a bit ridiculous when they keep following people in the car and the media again, sending out these messages saying if they don’t make up their mind the economy is going to - you know it’s going to put more pressure on the pound and so I thought the media wasn’t helping the situation at all. They could have- So you know, watching the whole thing, I didn’t- I was very disappointed in terms of the negotiations because you’re seeing the traditional party boundaries just fall away and instead seeing members of Parliament do whatever they can in an opportunistic way to get into power, which I, I thought, well, I was watching TV when Brown announced he was going to step down. I remember shouting at the television, thinking ‘You idiot, do you really think a leadership contest in the middle of a hung Parliament is in any way going to benefit the Labour Party? No!’ You know, this is ridiculous because if you lose your leader in the middle of such an important time it ‘cuts the head’, as it were, from the body, and it just doesn’t help. Why didn’t he just stay for a little while longer, I know that Clegg said he couldn’t work with him but for goodness sake they had more in common than not. And whilst I was watching negotiations and I was seeing Clegg negotiating with the Tories I thought to myself ‘You idiot,’- to Clegg -as I do to the tv- -‘You are cutting your own throat to the next election because at the next election the people who may be willing to vote for Lib-Dems, will not - if you are going to go with the Tories, (which they eventually did) I thought the electorate is not going to be able to distinguish between your policies and the Tory’s - they’ll see you just as Tories in disguise. So you’ll end up losing even more votes at the next election, 2015, than you did this election because are going to think -Well what do you really stand for at the end of the day?’ - What do the Lib-Dems stand for if they’re willing to…And I thought to myself - What an opportunistic party, what an opportunistic person Clegg is if he’s willing to do business, and drop all their traditional party boundaries to do this with the Tory government. But I was so disappointed with Labour, why would you resign in the middle and then cause a leadership contest, it’s not going to help, you should have stayed till at least.. And also with him saying -‘Oh, I’m going to wait until they negotiate’- what do the Lib-Dems have in common with the Tories, why are you waiting, you should be fighting to make sure they come on board with you whatever happens. And I felt that that was not and I feel that came across in the media. They made the Labour Party seem as if they weren’t willing to do business with anybody. I don’t know if we then formed that impression from the media that Labour, I don’t know whether that’s true or not but that’s the impression that I got. ** do something ** shouting at the tv. Moderator I was going to ask during the four days did you follow that along, after the car breaking down and getting people settled to where they needed to go. Daniel In fact, I felt the same feeling I feel like when you hire somebody for a job there’s kind of like the initial process of -Ah I’m really good for the job, here’s what I’ve done before – this whole process and you talk, you know you interview each other and eventually it’s decided - Ok, we’ll give you the job-. And then I just shut the door, give them what they’ve got to do, not in a bad sense, you know, here’s the stuff you got to do. Close the door, for us, fine, thrash it out whatever. But you know, really. My attention has like gone after the main event which is like bad, correctly or incorrectly, which is the actual voting process and then the hung Parliament is the after-party kind of thing. But really it’s more like giving somebody a job kind of thing. They could be uh, just debate for years on everything about this whole thing like the intricacy details and some of the history whatever….. but I think it would be interesting to say- here’s your job- so in six months time you know -What have you done in terms of the country, you know, UK. So to me, I was just saying ** let’s just see what happens. That’s what my - Moderator So would you want a referendum in six months? Daniel If I’m competent enough to judge- Iris - or another election? Daniel Maybe, yeah. If everybody- Maybe, if it’s going in a way that- Iris -you want a vote of No Confidence - to be able to say in six months -I don’t have faith in the government- Daniel Well I think it would be good to have milestones in - I look at everything like a project management kind of way. So you put like a milestone and you can say- ok this is where we want to be as a country and then give it your best shot to get to that point. And it would be good in some ways if everybody could say -Right we not there, we want to change it in this way, that way- probably hard to implement but yeah, something like this would be interesting. A more regular involvement of the public. I think Switzerland is like that, right? Iris You have that in Europe. You have regular referendums on key issues. I don’t think you have them here in the UK. Moderator Very rarely are there referendums. Iris In Europe, mainland Europe, they have referendums, I know Italy has them, I don’t know whether France and Germany have them, the Netherlands Moderator You’re getting a outside my sphere of competence, I think ‘beyond my pay-grade’ is the phrase. Iris I’ve heard you talk about Italy, they have key referendums on key issues so they will, you know, they’ll say for example: Do you want immigration policy to change? And they will hold a national referendum and everyone has to go and vote and people are allowed to vote on that one issue. For example, if there’s an issue to do with the economy, a huge issue - there are regular referendums Carole We’ve only done that once in the country. Moderator Was it the EU? Carole Yeah, to join the EU, the only one. Iris And when was that, 1974? Carole It was…’73 Roger Well we’ve now been promised a referendum on the electoral process. Moderator Yes, and I do want to get to that, - jumping ahead - I do want to get to people’s ideas on that. Just Andrew, very quickly, did you check it at all, read it up…? Andrew Yeah, I was like, as I said, confused again. I thought it would be done, like, on the same day and I kept looking on Google News that, UK Politics, ** but like afterwards I found out that Gordon Brown was, um, going away and I was a bit confused -why would he do that when he could stay in power - why wouldn’t he- It just kind of confused me a lot, like. Like if I could stay wouldn’t you just try, like, try and stay and make the best of the situation you’re in. You’re still there, you’re still the ‘face of the country kind of thing’. Moderator Yeah. So the new coalition government was announced. Were people expecting a full blow coalition or were you expecting a minority government when Gordon Brown resigned and all the announcements, does anyone have any… Roger I was fearfully of a minority government, that’s what I honestly expected - I didn’t think they’d take on board a Liberal Party that would, and I’m sorry I know you’re going to come to this later, that wanted to pursue electoral reform because I think electoral reform could be the death of their party. So I didn’t expect it and I was relieved when they went for it. And it also, because it was an environment unlike previous landslides, where we’re not dealing with jubilation, we’re not dealing with ‘I’ve got a mandate’ it was -Oh right, tell me about the problems - we’ve got to deal with them- and there- It’s a much more heads down attitude and it’s not so bolshy, not so egotistical and swaggering, it’s much more fretful and the Liberal Party have softened them from certain policies and also it gives them an excuse to not sort of behave in a certain way that-. So, yes I was relieved. It wasn’t what I expected, I expected more that they would retain their own right-wing identity and try and force things through. Instead they’ve gone to ‘soften it out a bit’ and I was pleasantly surprised. Iris So Cameron has done for the Conservatives what Blair did for Labour. He’s taken it away from their traditional- Roger -broadened the scope - Iris -so he’s brought them, would you say, more to the centre. So he’s managed to do that. Roger - Yeah. Moderator Carole? Carole I went to a lecture, several months ago, by the guy who probably does all that mapping, he maps everything, professor who specialises in mapping. And when somebody asked him about his predication, his predication was that a hung Parliament would not last very long, probably about six months or something and then force another general election. So I’m wondering if that’s why Brown stepped down. Moderator Other people on the full-blown coalition rather than the minority government? Helen I don’t think I know enough. Moderator Ok, that’s fine. When they made the announcement there were a couple of proposals and Roger has already mentioned one. One of them would be a Referendum on the Alternative Vote system - another would be Fixed Term Parliaments so there would not be another election until the first Thursday in May 2015 and also raising the threshold for a No Confidence vote from 50%+1 to 55%. So you take 55% of the House voting for No Confidence for there to be dissolution of Parliament and another election before that fixed term. You can kind of take them in turn or give your reactions to the three. In terms of the fixed term Parliament- what are people’s thoughts? Would you like to see a change where as opposed to this either a No Confidence poll or the Prime Minister can call an election whenever he or she sees fit, to ‘Ok, we’ve got a date which is fixed in the future and we’re not going to call an election before then’. Do people have reactions - do you think it would be a good idea or a bad idea? Carole A bad idea, personally. Moderator That’s because you want to see another election or do you think just as a practice. Carole Just as practice. I mean you end up with somebody in power who starts ‘running away with power’ - some Hitler or something getting into - Moderator Although they have five years now, before they have to call an election, so, Carole I just think that’s worrying if someone gets a fixed term going all wayward, of if they start really drifting away from what most of the population want to happen there should be a chance to call an election, force them. Roger I would have wanted a shorter fixed - five years just seems an opportunity to not, yeah to not engage with the public to as strong a degree as they need to. They don’t need to worry about the upcoming election - they can get away with things or ignore certain areas. And having engaged with the public so much over this process it’s kind of saying -Well I didn’t like that, too much like hard work, I’ll put that off for as long as I can- So, yeah that was a disappointing part - I think that five years is too much. I do want a fixed term, because I want to know when this is going to happen, it can’t be dragged out, that there is actually a date. It would be easier to run the thing as well, I want to know it’s going to be well run and organised and make sure that a lot of difficulties in running the process are ironed out ** well in advance. It makes sense to me but five years is too long, it should have been four years. Moderator Daniel? Daniel Yeah, thanks I just wanted to.. did you mean like the actual process of the whole thing. I just thought it was kind of weird that some people weren’t able to vote and that kind of thing- it was a bit strange and I wondered how it much it would skew the results or not, I couldn’t tell. Moderator I haven’t heard of any votes being contested but I think people were disturbed Daniel - that they couldn’t vote. Moderator -by being turned away. Daniel So I just thought it would be good if we can use technology and if we can do our banking online we can surely do voting and have a card registration system so then people are just clicking and we can see the results computed. Well, obviously, you have to have an overseer bar. When they pick the lottery balls they keep them with security, you know, I’m sure there’s a way to do it. So I thought that was interesting. And also just establishing or going forward and testing, to say, another infrastructure as a populist more easily instead of having to go to some place and stand in a queue and go into some booth or something - I don’t know what the advantage is of that - it seems really ‘old hat’ to me. You know, we’re in 2010. You know? Moderator I think the person from the Electoral Commission that they brought on to batter around said the rules were written in Victorian times when suffrage was limited to property owning males over a certain age. They didn’t have these problems… Daniel Or computer literate people that would be the equivalent I guess… Carole Working on the election as a presiding officer in a polling booth, the amount of people who struggled with the concept of putting a cross in a box next to the candidate, you know next to the candidate that they wanted was scary. Roger Could I propose that part of the reason for that may be that sometimes the actual process of going out of your comfort zone into this location which, this school, or church hall which has nothing to do with you and there’s a couple of people standing outside who are suddenly intrigued with you. And you’re queuing up, you want to do this quickly because you don’t want to look foolish but you’ve never seen this piece of paper. You don’t want to stand there for five minutes and stare at it and you’re feeling hurried. All that goes out the window if you’re in your front room, and it’s your computer and you can stare at it for an hour and a half and go back and come back and make a decision. Those things give you time to warm to, and make a clearer decision I think and help democracy. Carole Yeah, but if you’re 85 - not all 80 year-olds whatever are good with computers. Ida You’d have to have both wouldn’t you? Roger Oh yeah, you wouldn’t get rid of. Carole You cannot switch straight over. Roger But how many of those 85 year olds have been pulled out of their sofa chairs in some old people’s homes and stuck in a bus paid for by the whatever party who thinks they’re going to vote their way. Moderator So it sounds like what people are saying here in terms of the electoral review people would like to see them not only take on issues like the electoral system but actually how the votes are processed, the process of voting itself. Ida I think in terms of one of the three things you mentioned was the electoral review and I think there definitely needs to be a change because it’s kind of a flawed system where the party who got the fewest votes of the three, now their leader is Deputy Prime Minister. There has to be something wrong with that like - Female part. -a party that nobody really voted for - Ida Exactly, it doesn’t make any sense really does it? The electoral reform is something that really surprised me about the Tories and about, well, Lib-Dems forming a coalition with the Tories, because that was something that the Lib-Dems were campaigning on and it could potentially be the downfall of the Tories like to have the AV voting. So I think it needs to happen. Moderator Yeah, in terms of that, because we kind of need to move on. There was a proposal to have some sort of referendum but the wording isn’t established or what it would be; but do you want to vote, would you like to have a referendum on the option for the alternative vote for all the vote systems or do you think that’s too narrow. Do you think these decisions shouldn’t be palmed off in terms of referendum. The reform of the voting system - because the proposal would be just to have Alternative Vote - not PR- not Proportional Representation, it would just be on the Alternative Vote. Which means that when you got into the ballot box, if you had four parties to choose from you would rank them 1,2,3,4 - when they counted up all the votes, if nobody got 50% the person with the least votes, their votes - their second preferences - would be re-distributed until somebody got 50%. Carole Yeah, so that gives the BMP and UKIP parties- Ida But you don’t have to rank them all in that system you can put as many as you want. Carole Right, as long as it’s not -you have to rank everybody- Ida Yeah, you don’t have to - because they used that system actually in the university they used that I was at in student politics to elect sabbatical officers. I think it’s a good thing - it means that parties like the Lib-Dems would actually do a lot better because a lot of Labour supporters would put them as their second preference and I think it’s a fairer system. Iris What scares people about Proportional Representation? Carole The Conservatives would never get in, that’s why we’re never going to get it. At the end of the day, I think more of the population voted for Labour. Roger The idea of having a referendum appeals to me because it relies on education of the population. People need to have, to be able to vote they need to have information in order to make a decision so opposing opinions will be putting promotional material out there. And that gives people the opportunity to find out more about it. It’s interesting already, I say already, I think it’s always been this way - the way satire deals with electoral change is to make it sound more complicated than it is. It is not the most complicated thing in the world, but it is somehow - it’s the easy way to present it as that. It’s almost like -Oh we’re giving you too much choice, you wouldn’t be able to handle it, you’ll confuse your silly heads. It’s like, no, actually I’d like a bit of power. Like how many people around this table, like I said with my vote, I kind of knew it wouldn’t make much of a difference. The idea that voting should make a difference surely should be at the core of the whole process and most people come away feeling it doesn’t make a difference. Moderator People agree with that, Carole. Carole If you’re in a large majority, you know, all I could do was let the Green Party know and they lost a lot of seats so there are still one or two people still vote for them. That’s all I could do with my vote. Moderator Ida you were also agreeing with that sentiment. Ida Yeah, I think with the referendum it actually gives people a chance to actually make a difference to the outcome of something. As you were just saying about the Green Party and things, I think with the AV system you do have so much more of an opportunity to, you know, because you can rank however many preferences as you want, you know. That makes a big difference because someone can win on second preferences because enough people, ok they might not be their first choice but they’re still in favour of the policies and stuff. Moderator Does anyone find this conversation already confusing? Andrew Yeah. Moderator It came up in the other group. Someone last night said -‘Look I’m just listening to you guys talking about it and I’d have to say if you put a ballot in front of me I wouldn’t vote because I just don’t know.’ Andrew I’m also like. It’s like you have the parties in front of you and you have to rate them 1,2,3,4 but yeah it’s just like in that case you have to actually know what you’re doing, you need more knowledge of politics. I think some people wouldn’t be willing, would just not bother kind of thing. Moderator Did you want to pick up on that at all? Daniel Sorry, I was just agreeing, saying ‘yeah’. I mean, there’s a saying that the confused mind always means no’ - pretty much. I mean, I’m not sure what the answer to that debate is about. Because it’s assuming that everyone has a level of understanding of what’s going on and not that they are necessarily not able to understand but they may not have the time or the inclination or whatever - are all sorts of different reasons. I think, uh, if there was something in place in our schools perhaps, taught us, that sort of, equipped us with skills to vote that might be useful. Iris Well, few in the UK. There used to be, many, many years ago at my school, we had compulsory sociology and politics as well as maths and English and funny enough one of the educational and politics and understanding political parties, and representation blue collar workers and white collar workers and what they represent. And it was actually part of the curriculum and it was compulsory and funny enough, it was taken away when one of the education inspectors came to the school and found out that the teachers were teaching politics to the students and that they should not be, you know, it was something that should never have been part of the national curriculum. So it used to be and it was taken away. Moderator Helen, I’ll pick on you because you’re probably the closest to that kind of, having the most recent memory of that. Do you feel that your education prepared you for becoming a voting citizen? Helen I was just thinking about where I’ve learnt things about politics and none of it was from school. I mean I left school four years ago and I never learned anything. I think they’d be too worried that teachers might sort of put their views in a bit- Andrew -be a bit biased- Helen -yeah. I don’t know how, unless you have like a set text and the teacher could only read off the text I feel it would be hard. Because you are influenced by what your teachers say because you take it as ‘that’s the truth’ but at the same time, the things that I know are just from the media and I don’t think that’s a good way to learn about the governance of our country. I don’t know if they could successfully teach it in school, but if you’re saying it had worked in the past, then.. Moderator I think you could teach ‘process’. Roger If it’s only the system, then that’s nuts and bolts, it’s a system, it’s a process and there’s no argument or debate about it - it’s been worked out in the science department. I think there’s a disinclination to make people feel confident about a system that makes them feel more powerful because they don’t want to have powers with people. Iris You’re disenfranchised from the beginning by not being taught or understanding the basics of politics. So if you don’t, as you say, if you don’t have the understanding of the basics of politics then the political parties have realised you’re going to be more swayed by the media. So the media is more powerful in helping individuals to decide their voting at the end of the day. This was calculated, it was done, it was purposefully done, it was taken out of the curriculum so that you disenfranchise individuals so that they have less of an understanding unless they go and study politics, which are very small minorities. So I think it was calculated and it was done specifically for that. Carole Political procedures have changed so much in recent years though, even voting, different um. European government changed the way we vote for that. Voting for the Major the voting procedures changed for that. Roger I’m not surprised they’ve introduced the single transferable vote, it’s worked for lots of places, but somehow it doesn’t seem to be so easy to introduce that as a concept to the biggest most significant vote that we have as a nation. Moderator This is, I have to say, a really interesting discussion but in the spirit of getting you out of here in 90 minutes, ‘cause you know, after that you’re talking for free. Thank you,that was a very interesting exchange and very interesting views and other tangents that were brought out. Looking forward, we have this coalition government, we’ve seen some initial policies that are coming out of it. Thinking about the next 6-12 months - I’ll give you a scale but you don’t have to use it: Are you- really pessimistic, cautiously pessimistic, ‘meh’, cautiously optimistic or quite optimistic or maybe you’re something else. Iris About what the process? Moderator About the government, what you think in terms of the country, the economic situation, policies. Do you think in 6 months or a years’ time. Do you think it’s going to be much worse, not that different or a little better. Are you optimistic about where things are going as a result of the election? Carole I think, optimistic in some way because it gives NGOs a social justice NGOs have got perhaps a little bit more power, they’re certainly putting messages through to people -Now we might have a chance for change- so there’s a possibility that we might get some decent social justice policies through and I’m cautiously optimistic that this government won’t last very long. Iris I agree. I don’t think this will last very long especially when the cuts are going to start within the public sector, the non-private sector when they start cutting 30% here and 20% there we’re going to see a huge backlash from the unions who are going to organise massive national strikes as they are going to be the ones who are going to disagree with all the cuts in public services and they’re going to be the voice of the people. So I think you’ll see the unions are going to come to the fore, they’re going to be stronger and I think probably the electorate will see the unions in a way that will defend their jobs. I think you’ll see a lot of national strikes - this is crisis management. This government is a huge crisis management, huge national debt. You’re going to see the middle classes also, um, they’re going to be hit because the Tories have got to find more ways of taxing people. They seem to be unwilling to tax those at the top, because we know what the Tories stand for. They’ve taxed the ones at the very bottom to the hilt and the only ones left to squash are the middle classes so you’re going to see a huge backlash from the middle classes. Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to last very long. And I just feel that the Lib-Dem, the traditional Lib-Dem voters are going to come to the fore with a lot of Tory policies they don’t agree with so it’s going to cause a lot of friction within the Liberal general party so -Ok, either we go with the Tory or we stand against them- and the moment we stand against them the Tory majority falls. So I personally think it’s not going to last for very long or that’s just wishful thinking. Moderator Ida? Ida I’d say that I was more optimistic than if it had been an overall Tory - that they’d won outright because I think there are certain policies that Lib-Dems plan to push through that I’d be quite pleased to see if they do succeed with that. But then again I’m not convinced it’s going to last a long time and pessimistic in some ways because I think with a hung Parliament it’s going to be more difficult to get things passed. So it could be a lot of talk and not much action. Moderator It’s just sort of your gut instincts. I’m just asking you to think about how…. Anyone else? Helen I think I feel a little pessimistic - I don’t want to um - just because I graduate with my Masters in September and I was hoping to get a job in Health promotion but everyone I’ve talked to from the Health Protection Agency or people in the NHS and they’ve all said you should be a bit wary because if they were going to make cuts it’s the first thing that will get cuts so I’m like ‘oh, great’. I think I’m a bit pessimistic but less pessimistic than if it was a majority government because I feel like it’s kind of like ‘reins’ holding them back. I don’t know, I think it’s really hard to say, I think I might be surprised by what happens. Moderator A week is a long time in politics - even six months…Roger? Roger I suppose in a way I can’t lose because it’s a similar situation and I agree, it’s crisis management - if it’s an absolutely terrible situation well all I can say is, -It’s up to the Tories, I didn’t vote for them and if it’s not absolutely terrible then that’s good because it’s not absolutely terrible. I’m kind of relieved not to have quite the responsibility in a way that someone else, another party is having to deal with which is a really bad situation and it’s uh. I’d just like to see them try and keep things on an even keel if we can do that and just get through that until the cycle of economics allows it to start to go in a more positive direction but that’s some way in the future. Yeah, there’s my petty personal politics mind that says -I can’t lose- and then there’s actual reality of living in this world that says -We’re in a lot of trouble. Moderator Andrew, how about you? Andrew I don’t know I find it kind of interesting. I don’t feel like it can’t be that bad, it sounds like it’s going to be like really terrible but I don’t know, that’s ‘cos obviously I don’t know what’s going on. I think if you going in to be a prime Minister you’re obviously going to do something good to stay in power. That’s why I kind of think- I know it’s a hung Parliament but I’d like to think they’re going to do something for the country to turn out well. I don’t think they want us to go down. They want the best for us, working together. I don’t know, I guess I like to think I’m a bit optimistic, in general, not about politics – just myself I’m an optimistic person. Do you understand? I’m very interested to see what happens. Obviously if something bad is going to happen we’re going to see it like quite rapidly because quite little things are like, they blow up quite quickly and that stuff. Moderator Last one. Daniel Yeah, it’s interesting, I don’t know I guess to me I just have to keep thinking -Ok what is my philosophy on living in a situation whatever to get by - I don’t think I’m going to starve and I don’t think I’m going to be homeless. And that’s not because I’m a millionaire or something. I don’t know, I have faith in people in the country, in the UK having lived in other places- it’s quite good to come back here and appreciate the cultural aspect and how generally we have different people thinking different things - but just the general vibe of it. So yeah, in that sense I’m optimistic, there’s financial problems, but yeah, then my personal view is that I don’t want to panic myself out of sleeping every night so I try to kind of maintain level-headed and just know that everything will be all right, that’s my belief. So, I don’t know, like maybe that’s naïve but that’s all I keep coming back to -Oh I can’t control this, I can’t control that - who know what empirical ideas ** going to go and attack some country to try and make money or so. Do I support that - probably not what they’re going to do. Do you see what I mean, there are so many thing I can’t control. So you have to start -you were saying pick on the local things- and you have to think -Ok you go and buy the bread from the baker, that kind of atmosphere that’s why I kind of think about family and roof over my head kind of thing. So I don’t really care, I mean I do care but I mean but if I’m really - it’s like I was saying before - I want to help and I want to contribute but when it comes to that kind of thinking - Yeah, oh dear we’re in this massive crisis when everyone pulls together in a sense, but yeah, I mean an amateur view. Moderator This time next year might you be paying more in tax? Carole I might be homeless, the way things are going. If you get a government that are cutting down, I was made redundant through the last government. I’ve not claimed benefits I’ve had a bit of a breakdown. I’m living on my sort of redundancy and I’m a sitting tenant but the landlord found a loophole where they could really put my rent through the roof. The fact that I’d been with my landlord for almost thirty years, that was a definite protection under the last government but I’m not necessarily going to have that protection under this government. Certainly more people have been made homeless anyway because of what’s been going on just in the way neo-Liberal politics have been taking control so if it goes more neo-Liberal or neo-Conservative there could be more people homeless. I mean it could be people who’ve got quite good jobs now. I mean I had quite a good job in the past. Iris Yeah, my level of pessimism is such because I was made redundant but if I was sitting in a room of say 13 of my friends, 11 of us out of 13 have actually been made redundant during the last year and we weren’t working for the same company. We’re all in different sectors and to see how our lives have been impacted by unemployment. You know you were saying, ‘I’ve got a roof over my head’. Trust me, I have friends who have been made redundant who did lose the roof over their head, who did become homeless. You know, you see how- unemployment amongst my friends, we were, practically the lot of us, related to the financial services industry either directly or indirectly. If that level of redundancy and unemployment is then mirrored in other industries such as public sector that’s when I get worried because then you are going to see mass unemployment and social upheaval. Then you’re going to see things that you’re too young to remember: we remember riots, sleeping - huge numbers of people sleeping on the streets, - ok, we have that knowledge to know - we lived through that. Racial tensions, all due, when unemployment goes to that level… Carole Very heavy racial tensions, as soon as employment goes, that gets violent. And you can see it getting violent again. Iris - that’s why I’m pessimistic - and unemployment, as everyone knows around this table is rising, continues to rise and throughout my friends, quite a few of them are still redundant, not because they haven’t tried. I remember when I was looking for a job I was applying for about 15 a week. So a friend of mine, we were saying -How many job applications have you done today -Oh ten, maybe 12 and one of my friends is in long-term unemployment, trying I mean willing to take anything. That’s why I’m pessimistic that if the level of unemployment carries on it will be, the impact, you will have negative impact because you’ll have less money, contributions, coming in so you’ll have to tax those who are working even more. And those who are working will feel more resentment. Moderator Well, on that note…(laughter) Iris And the National Debt? Moderator Yeah, we didn’t get on to that but we’re running out of time. I just want to thank you for time and your thoughts and I’m not looking for expertise because I want to know again, what’s going on in people’s minds who are making the decisions, who are voting and listening to these things and are affected by them. It’s what I think is the biggest contribution that this research will provide - it’s not talking heads, it’s not people with degrees and media clips, it’s people who are not entirely sure what something means or are still making up their minds and stuff and I think that’s what we do in our everyday lives. Have a good rest of the evening. If you have any questions for me, but otherwise this will be probably the last time that we’ll meet. ondon Group -post PAGE 28