daktulos

Hi,

This has been bugging me for a while now, and I was hoping someone here may know the answer. It's to do with the new signs installed on the M25 and other motorways (particularly "managed" ones). They look a bit like this:



On the M25, there are standard variable speed limit signs above the carriageway which are mandatory speed limits and enforced by cameras. Between the gantries, there are also these signs.

The question is, are these mandatory speed limits or advisory?

Given the red circle, I'm going to assume that they are intended to be mandatory, but I can't find any reference to them in Google. Given that they are not above each lane, and only appear on one side of the road, are they enforceable?

I've had a look through "The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016" and they don't appear to be covered by that. If anyone has a link to the appropriate law, it'd be appreciated.

As an aside, I noticed that pictures of motorway signs seem to have been dropped from the highway code. Maybe it's a move away from being prescriptive towards the intuitive ...

Thanks.

NTECUK

I'm with you in thinking the red circle means it's an instruction.

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BoltonSte

I think you've answered your own question. The mandatory signs with the cameras have the red circle, as does this one. Red circles are usually limits/prohibition signs.


The amber ones, ones on square signs etc are suggested speeds for various hazards, and although not mandatory then ignoring them and having a crash could count against you.

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daktulos

Perhaps I didn't explain the real question very well - assuming that they are intended to be mandatory, it's too easy to miss them, e.g. if you're passing a lorry.

As I understand it, the legislation requires them to be above lanes (for motorway matrix signs) or on both sides of the road (for normal road-signs).

Has an exception been put in for them somewhere, or won't they be enforced until you pass under the next sign above lanes?

Bibio

if they are between the main gantry signs then i would say that they are repeaters to remind drivers of upcoming hazards and to make appropriate action to avoid the hazard.

technically the speed limit sign is wrong as far as i'm aware all speed limit signs must have a white background.

ophic

I wondered about this as well but I'm not sure it's a reasonable defence. The information is pretty clear.

However my brief eyeballing of this document: http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf
didn't turn up anything relevant.

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ophic

Reading further:

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...egaladvice.pdf

It appears that anything authorized by the Secretary of State is a valid road sign.

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daktulos

That's just what I was looking for, thanks. My mistake was assuming they were speed signs!

I'd still argue that they can't be seen by everyone on the road, though.

ophic

actually found it. In that last doc, bottom of page 8, point 31.

pdf doesn't let me copy/paste it.

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Bibio

off topic:

i wonder how long it will be before auto speed restriction devices are fitted to vehicles so when you pass a speed restriction it automatically sets you to that speed.... my prediction is ermm never as there is faaaaarrrrr too much money to be made in fines. i would guess the technology is already here but not being used.